#emc | Logs for 2008-01-18

[01:21:47] <jmkasunich> I wish I had a square that I could be sure was truly square
[01:23:11] <jmkasunich> If the measurements I just made are correct, my machine is out of square by about 0.0021 per inch, and my square is out by about 0.0005 per inch
[01:25:35] <ds2> what about comparing it to a laser beam in a smoky room aimed at a mirror lying on a sine bar?
[01:25:48] <ds2> (sine bar set at 45deg)
[01:26:23] <jmkasunich> laser beams are fat and blurry
[01:30:18] <jmkasunich> I made the measurements by clamping the blade of my combination square down, and adjusting it untill I could run (using Y) a 0.0001 indicator along it with no change
[01:30:50] <jmkasunich> then I put the head of the square on the blade, and ran the indicator along it (using X), and got 0.0016 per inch
[01:31:05] <jmkasunich> flipped the head over, so any error in the square head would go the other way
[01:31:13] <jmkasunich> ran X again, and got 0.0026
[01:31:37] <jmkasunich> so the square head error = 1/2 the difference, and the axis error = the average of the two readings
[01:32:39] <fenn> time to get out the stones
[01:32:55] <jmkasunich> for the square?
[01:33:01] <fenn> sure why not
[01:33:23] <jmkasunich> cause its a starrett, and I want to be damned sure I'm right before I start stoning it
[01:33:42] <fenn> so get another square and fix that one then
[01:38:33] <ds2> there was an article in one of the rags about making a decent cylindrical square
[01:49:32] <Gamma-X> hello everyone
[01:51:00] <Gamma-X> i got that shipment from digikey today for the connectors and instead of getting a 24 pin connector, i got 4 fuses.... that was a dissapointment, but i called up and they are overnighting the parts out and i can keep the fuses.
[02:16:25] <Gamma-X> how does emc stand up with 730mhz processor and 256 ram? pc100
[02:17:47] <cradek> that's a little light for gnome - especially the ram - but it might work
[02:20:45] <Gamma-X> cradek will it be good enough if i upgrade ther am to 512 pc100?
[02:22:50] <Gamma-X> ram*
[02:33:11] <cradek> it will definitely install and run then
[02:55:00] <Gamma-X> I heard amd cpus have trouble with emc is that correct?
[02:55:25] <jmkasunich> not that I'm aware of
[02:55:31] <Gamma-X> ok
[02:55:34] <jmkasunich> many people have used AMD successfully
[02:55:51] <Gamma-X> im thinkin of building a cheap pc and getting rid of this optiplex gx110 lol
[02:57:42] <Gamma-X> jmkasunich u think the cost to benefit ratio is greater if i build a computer?
[02:57:58] <jmkasunich> I have no clue
[02:58:06] <jmkasunich> build vs. buy is a decision only you can make
[02:58:23] <jmkasunich> I never buy complete PCs, but that is my choice, and is totally irrelevant for anyone else
[02:59:12] <Gamma-X> jmkasunich well im talkin about a computer I already have its a 730 mhz p3 with 256 pc100 ram.
[02:59:32] <Gamma-X> will it work good enough or will spendin a few bucks on sumtin cheap work better for my purpose?
[02:59:42] <jmkasunich> so scrounge another stick of ram, install emc, and run a latency test
[02:59:54] <jmkasunich> no substutite for trying
[03:01:28] <Gamma-X> true...
[03:02:00] <Gamma-X> ive been lookin for 2 sticks of 256 but no one has any.... i have to buy and in my way of thinkin if im buyin pc100 ram i might aswell make a system
[03:25:38] <tomp> jmkasunich: a starret is not likely to be out any significant value per inch. no matter how old , & i bet your tools are not abused
[03:31:55] <jmkasunich> tomp: thats my thought as well
[03:33:33] <jepler> Gamma-X: pc100/pc133 ram can still be had. typically, pc133 ram can be used in systems that were originally specified for pc100. e.g., http://www.geeks.com/products_sc.asp?cat=719 http://www.google.com/products?q=pc133+168
[05:36:26] <StepDir> anybody here?
[12:19:48] <alex_joni> Jymm: around?
[14:30:42] <tomp> ah, the palm trees in italy had me wondering where xemet was, had to be Mediterranean ( the Ticino has palms but not like that ) it's Palermo! http://www.comune.palermo.it/cartina.jpg
[15:42:44] <skunkworks846> skunkworks846 is now known as skunkworks_
[16:27:18] <alex_joni> 'lo
[16:27:40] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 waves.
[16:27:50] <skunkworks_> Hi everyone.
[16:28:00] <skunkworks_> bill2or3: how is the mill coming?
[16:28:40] <bill2or3> it's not.. now I have a baby instead, I don't get to go to the garage anymore.
[16:28:45] <bill2or3> but the baby is coming along great.
[16:29:23] <bill2or3> so I've been building a plotter(kind of) inside.
[16:30:25] <jlmjvm> hello everyone
[16:31:10] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: wanna see soemthing nice?
[16:31:54] <archivist> machinists geek porn
[16:31:56] <alex_joni> http://eneas.juve.ro/~juve/tig-filler/prindere-wig.PNG
[16:31:59] <skunkworks_> sure
[16:32:29] <alex_joni> maybe you remember that design..
[16:32:34] <alex_joni> I did that a couple months ago
[16:32:45] <alex_joni> http://eneas.juve.ro/~juve/tig-filler/IMG_6968.JPG <- the outcome of that
[16:32:48] <skunkworks_> Yes - for holding a torch? or somthing like that?
[16:32:51] <bill2or3> what created that image?
[16:33:05] <alex_joni> bill2or3: alibre
[16:33:17] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: holding filler wire for TIG welding
[16:33:55] <skunkworks_> cool
[16:34:02] <alex_joni> bill2or3: some 'free' (not 'Free') software for doze
[16:34:15] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: maybe this works for you: http://eneas.juve.ro/~juve/tig-filler/Asamblat.pdf
[16:34:43] <skunkworks_> yes - that is flipping awsome.
[16:34:48] <skunkworks_> that is alibre - right?
[16:34:52] <alex_joni> right
[16:34:59] <skunkworks_> heh - says right on it.
[16:35:04] <alex_joni> how do you call that paint in english?
[16:35:07] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ really needs to get into that.
[16:35:48] <archivist> hammererd
[16:35:50] <alex_joni> in german it's 'hammerschlag'
[16:35:55] <skunkworks_> exactly
[16:36:09] <skunkworks_> hammered
[16:36:12] <skunkworks_> ;)
[16:36:15] <archivist> made by a company here called hammerite
[16:39:07] <archivist> methinks headstock of the worst lathe in the world (hobbymat md65) is going to be my milling machine headstock
[16:39:51] <jlmjvm> hammerschlag would be a cool nick
[16:40:02] <alex_joni> alex_joni is now known as hammerschlag
[16:40:09] <hammerschlag> jlmjvm: too late :P
[16:40:13] <skunkworks_> skunkworks_ is now known as alex_joni
[16:40:17] <alex_joni> :)
[16:40:22] <jlmjvm> i wanted to be hammer,lol
[16:40:26] <alex_joni> alex_joni is now known as skunkworks_
[16:40:28] <bill2or3> Mmmhammerite.
[16:40:35] <hammerschlag> skunkworks_: do that again :P
[16:41:00] <skunkworks_> heh - I am sure I would get kicked
[16:41:06] <hammerschlag> hammerschlag is now known as alex_joni
[16:41:37] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: now you can
[16:42:47] <jlmjvm> jlmjvm is now known as alabamahammersch
[16:43:25] <alabamahammersch> alabamahammersch is now known as jlmjvm
[16:47:00] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: try hammerschlammer
[16:47:30] <jlmjvm> jlmjvm is now known as hammerschlammer
[16:47:40] <hammerschlammer> hows this
[16:50:03] <hammerschlammer> hammerschlammer is now known as jlmjvm
[16:50:51] <alex_joni> heh
[16:56:12] <cradek> http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/01/flame_gun_makes_winter_wo.html
[16:56:33] <cradek> "So Easy Even Your Wife Can Use It."
[16:56:41] <skunkworks_> heh
[16:56:42] <cradek> wow.
[16:56:50] <alex_joni> heh
[16:57:04] <skunkworks_> we got another 6 inches yesterday..
[16:57:12] <skunkworks_> now it is supposed to get way below 0
[16:57:15] <skunkworks_> f
[16:57:31] <cradek> yuck
[16:57:59] <archivist> I have a weeding version at home
[16:58:09] <skunkworks_> biab
[16:59:30] <alex_joni> brrr.. that's cold
[16:59:38] <alex_joni> we have about 9-10C right now
[17:00:37] <alex_joni> ~50F
[17:01:21] <jlmjvm> we are supposed to get some snow tonight,very rare here
[17:02:26] <jlmjvm> the comments below the flame gun are hilarious
[17:03:52] <alex_joni> bbl
[17:08:14] <Jymm> alex_joni: Yes
[17:08:44] <tomp2> urph alex left... its called hammertone, from hammerite and many other mfctrs. i painted my 3in1 ( shoptask) with it ( see the google emc map for a pic )
[17:16:25] <fenn> looks like corroded steel that's been wire brushed
[17:17:53] <seb_kuzminsky> hey gnieport, any luck with the 5i20 pwm/dac?
[17:29:34] <tomp2> my machine?
[18:18:00] <BigJohnT> anyone know how to calculate the power needed for an endmill of a given size?
[18:49:14] <tomp2> found it, when properly mixed & applied, hammertone paint makes the machine look 'peened' http://www.polychroma.com/photos/image.php?image=hammertone3
[18:52:07] <StepDir> need help setting up smp kernel. can anybody help?
[19:04:45] <skunkworks_> what distro?
[19:05:01] <StepDir> Ubunto
[19:05:15] <StepDir> Ubuntu ;)
[19:05:46] <cradek> I am running a smp+rtai kernel but have not tried anything newer.
[19:06:01] <cradek> and actually I think mine still has a couple problems in it
[19:07:00] <StepDir> I a little rusty with linux, how do I find what kernel i'm running? dmesg?
[19:07:41] <cradek> you might have more luck getting help from the rtai folks actually. I bet a lot of them are running smp, and nearly no emc users are
[19:07:51] <StepDir> I found it. 2.6.15-magma
[19:08:23] <cradek> also, if you run a different kernel, beware you cannot use our released binaries, you will have to build emc
[19:09:02] <StepDir> hum, I'll have to think that over.
[19:09:18] <StepDir> Be a good learning experience though.
[19:09:50] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Debian_Lenny_Compile_RTAI
[19:09:58] <cradek> some information here (but not specifically related to smp)
[19:10:14] <cradek> building a realtime system from scratch is pretty complex
[19:11:10] <cradek> the 'configuring kernel' part of that page will help you even if the rest does not. those settings are critical and they may or may not be spelled out in the rtai documentation
[19:12:09] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Debian_Etch_Compile_RTAI
[19:12:16] <cradek> similar thing for Etch which I think is one step older
[19:13:19] <StepDir> I'm looking it over now. Thanks. :)
[19:13:25] <cradek> welcome
[19:13:37] <cradek> there may be more in the wiki - you will have to dig around :-)
[19:14:11] <skunkworks_> wouldn't these be a good starting point? http://www.linuxcnc.org/experimental/
[19:14:47] <cradek> those are the two I built a while back. They both have problems
[19:15:04] <cradek> but I think the is what I'm currently using
[19:15:24] <cradek> bootsplash doesn't work and sometimes the machine hangs when I exit emc.
[19:15:49] <cradek> the 2.6.17 one had an occasional problem with the keyboard not working right (!)
[19:16:58] <cradek> most keypresses would type one character, but occasionally a keypress would type about 1000 characters instead
[19:18:00] <jepler> that is bad if you're in incremental jog mode
[19:18:25] <cradek> yes it occasionally bit me with jogging. very bad news.
[19:19:48] <fenn> tomp2: you sure that's not a moldy petri dish?
[19:38:55] <StepDir> cradek why do I have to build emc?
[19:39:17] <jepler> StepDir: because emc contains kernel modules, and binary kernel modules can only be used with a specific kernel
[19:39:58] <StepDir> ok, let me soak that up a min.
[20:56:47] <SWPadnos___> SWPadnos___ is now known as SWPadnos
[21:07:39] <maddash> wikipedia's like one gigantic, non-authoritative man page
[21:07:50] <alex_joni> maddash: it's nice
[21:10:34] <raphaleandro> hello
[21:10:47] <seb_kuzminsky> hi
[21:10:48] <alex_joni> is that our old friend rapha?
[21:10:52] <alex_joni> 'lo
[21:11:00] <raphaleandro> ?
[21:11:18] <alex_joni> raphaleandro: might be some other rapha from brazil :)
[21:11:22] <raphaleandro> yes
[21:11:26] <alex_joni> n/m me :)
[21:11:30] <raphaleandro> yes
[21:11:41] <raphaleandro> its ok with you?
[21:12:09] <raphaleandro> my friend
[21:12:22] <raphaleandro> emc show one error
[21:12:49] <raphaleandro> and run DMESG
[21:12:59] <raphaleandro> what is DMESG?
[21:13:09] <raphaleandro> :)
[21:13:09] <maddash> er, it's "dmesg" not "DMESG"
[21:13:27] <raphaleandro> yes
[21:13:29] <raphaleandro> sorry
[21:13:34] <raphaleandro> what is?
[21:13:37] <maddash> raphaleandro: in a terminal, run "dmesg|less"
[21:13:49] <maddash> and scroll to the bottom to see potential errors
[21:13:53] <raphaleandro> and?
[21:13:57] <raphaleandro> ok
[21:14:08] <raphaleandro> my hardware is low
[21:14:24] <raphaleandro> i run emc in one laptop toshiba satelite 2060cds
[21:14:30] <alex_joni> dmesg gives a list of kernel messages
[21:14:41] <alex_joni> it's similar to reading the file /var/log/messages
[21:14:48] <alex_joni> (similar, but not the same..)
[21:14:48] <raphaleandro> ok
[21:14:55] <raphaleandro> :)
[21:15:16] <raphaleandro> this is because my hardware?
[21:15:28] <alex_joni> raphaleandro: depends what the error is
[21:15:42] <raphaleandro> ok
[21:15:46] <alex_joni> when emc starts up there are loads of messages that get written there
[21:15:59] <maddash> raphaleandro: why don't you pastebin your log and we'll help you?
[21:16:11] <raphaleandro> i dont in Linux
[21:16:14] <raphaleandro> but in windows
[21:16:22] <raphaleandro> in the nest time
[21:16:35] <maddash> 'nest time'?
[21:16:49] <raphaleandro> but i send the message in paste bin latter
[21:16:51] <maddash> (is that kinky code for something?)
[21:16:51] <raphaleandro> ok?
[21:17:51] <maddash> sure, just pastebin the log, cc the link to this channel, and someone should be able to help
[21:18:01] <raphaleandro> ok
[21:18:06] <raphaleandro> very thanks
[21:18:29] <raphaleandro> other ..
[21:18:43] <raphaleandro> in Brazil we made more 5 machines runing emc
[21:18:59] <raphaleandro> emc is very popular in Brazil
[21:19:10] <alex_joni> raphaleandro: that's good to hear
[21:19:31] <maddash> isn't there some lib c tool for parsing cli args?
[21:19:39] <maddash> er, lib c api*
[21:20:05] <seb_kuzminsky> maddash: strcmp :-)
[21:20:20] <seb_kuzminsky> there's getopt, but that's not in libc
[21:21:46] <maddash> er, then why does google's 1st result show, "Getopt - The GNU C Library"?
[21:23:06] <Gamma-X> u think a video card with 4mb of ram is sufficient to run emc?
[21:23:14] <Gamma-X> its an old school pci card
[21:23:18] <maddash> yes, under ssh -X
[21:23:23] <alex_joni> because a c library is different from libc
[21:23:39] <maddash> alex_joni: explain
[21:23:44] <alex_joni> Gamma-X: what resolution do you want
[21:23:52] <alex_joni> maddash: do you know what libc is?
[21:23:55] <Gamma-X> alex_joni i dont care i jsut want emc to run sufficient
[21:24:16] <maddash> alex_joni: clearly not, if you're correct
[21:24:18] <alex_joni> Gamma-X: might just be
[21:24:20] <alex_joni> maddash: http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/
[21:24:27] <alex_joni> it's a C library
[21:24:29] <Gamma-X> i got a free pc and now ahve 378 ram or sumtin like that, p3 866 processor, and im adding the video card
[21:24:50] <Gamma-X> alex_joni its an old school ati card from 93
[21:25:07] <alex_joni> Gamma-X: can't hurt to try
[21:25:18] <maddash> Gamma-X: it's fine. I once ran it with 8M, and it was pretty snappy
[21:25:26] <maddash> Gamma-X: tkemc, that is
[21:25:29] <Gamma-X> sweet! haha
[21:25:42] <Gamma-X> if need be ill upgrade i jsut want it to not have much latency
[21:25:45] <maddash> if you send, "man getopts" and click "I feel lucky," you see a page that says, "Standard C Library (libc, -lc)"
[21:25:54] <cradek> 4MB is fine for 1024x768x16bit video
[21:26:30] <maddash> sweeeeeet.
[21:26:33] <alex_joni> maddash: it also says BSD Library Functions Manual
[21:26:37] <Gamma-X> thanks cradek.
[21:27:06] <Gamma-X> u think ubuntu has direct support for that card?
[21:27:07] <maddash> ooh right. you guys run linux.
[21:27:19] <cradek> Gamma-X: no clue
[21:27:29] <seb_kuzminsky> gamma-x: i bet it'll work at least in VGA mode
[21:27:29] <cradek> (that's pretty old)
[21:27:36] <Gamma-X> ok
[21:27:48] <Gamma-X> it was free! and FREE is for ME!
[21:28:07] <maddash> alex_joni: it really is identical to the linux style getopt, though
[21:28:17] <seb_kuzminsky> maddash: you're right, looks like getopt is in glibc
[21:28:34] <alex_joni> maddash: guess you can try it then :)
[21:28:55] <alex_joni> Gamma-X: I'd be surprised if it didn't
[21:28:59] <maddash> * maddash is building conversational programs
[21:30:48] <Gamma-X> i wonder if u could overclock this old pos dell...
[21:31:04] <alex_joni> * alex_joni doesn't believe in OC anymore
[21:32:12] <alex_joni> well.. off to bed for me
[21:32:15] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:32:32] <seb_kuzminsky> bye
[21:35:17] <Gamma-X> do u think i realy need heatsink paste on a p3?
[21:36:49] <anonimasu> yes
[21:43:25] <jepler> getopt is a part of POSIX. http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/000095399/functions/getopt.html
[21:47:32] <maddash> jepler: why do you use python in place of C so much?
[21:49:38] <jepler> maddash: because of personal preference
[21:50:09] <lerman> Or because he is a parselmouth? :-)
[21:50:30] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: don't you miss all that memory management?
[21:55:39] <jepler> actually it's getting the type of everything right that bugs me most in C++. If you use a reference-counting pointer class everywhere instead of bare pointers, there's almost as little memory management in C++ as in a modern language like Python.
[21:57:58] <jepler> but that's just opinion
[21:58:46] <jepler> bbl
[22:14:25] <maddash> I'm deciding whether it's worth it to spend some hours learning python instead of haacking out my talkbot in C
[22:16:25] <maddash> btw, to all you folks interested in embedded out there: don't use the Rabbit. It's shit. Not *the* shit. just shit.
[22:16:39] <maddash> there's a reason it's so damn cheap
[22:17:06] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 makes a note
[22:17:28] <maddash> and a 90-year-old can climax faster than the "tech support" can answer your questions. correctly.
[22:18:13] <bill2or3> I dont know any 90 year old men, but I'll take your word for it.
[22:18:21] <bill2or3> what're you trying to do with it?
[22:18:53] <maddash> measure 2 tri-phase AC and compare their RMS.
[22:20:11] <bill2or3> ahh.
[22:23:02] <archivist> maddash talkbot==irc bot ?
[22:23:38] <maddash> just some tiny routine that can understand, "go get my f-in mail now" in a bash cli
[22:23:47] <archivist> ah ok
[22:24:22] <gezar> any of you good with Cpp?
[22:24:41] <archivist> * archivist keeps away from c++
[22:25:06] <gezar> heh, I dont have a choice, its part of the class im taking
[22:25:08] <lerman> Is that c++ or C preprocessor.
[22:25:15] <lerman> ?
[22:25:22] <maddash> ugh, c++
[22:25:30] <maddash> gezar: bring it on
[22:25:33] <gezar> its c++
[22:25:50] <gezar> I dont have any questions right now, well I do, but its only because I jumped in front of things
[22:25:53] <seb_kuzminsky> c++ is the only language where your friends can access your private parts
[22:26:27] <maddash> bbl
[22:26:31] <lerman> Do you already know C or are you starting from scratch? I do C pretty well.
[22:27:05] <gezar> the only reason I havent made any contributions to emc is because I dont know a language, I know bits and pieces of things but I dont know how they all go together
[22:27:32] <maddash> er, emc isn't all c/c++
[22:27:52] <lerman> Your English seems pretty good. Try writing/upgrading some documentation.
[22:27:54] <maddash> case in point: axis
[22:28:20] <maddash> case in point: librs274.o
[22:28:28] <lerman> Or convert it to urdu or whatever other languages you might be fluent in.
[23:01:14] <Ziegler> http://www.bash.org/?349567
[23:01:15] <Ziegler> LOL
[23:01:30] <Ziegler> oldie but a goodie
[23:01:45] <maddash> psht
[23:02:10] <maddash> bash.org has a shitty rating system that keeps old entries up for too long
[23:05:36] <archivist> hehe good one
[23:08:18] <archivist> I hate all the manual work converting manual to cnc, I cant play yet!!
[23:19:37] <seb_kuzminsky> archivist: what are you converting?
[23:22:17] <archivist> an old toolmakers setting jig (nice x y and base) to a milling machine/gearcutter 4 axis
[23:22:44] <archivist> done the rotary
[23:23:12] <archivist> making stepper to leadscrew adapters now
[23:23:40] <archivist> and my ols lathe is to lose its head for it as well
[23:23:43] <archivist> old
[23:23:53] <seb_kuzminsky> what kind of couplers are you making?
[23:25:21] <archivist> just doing the outer tubes, the coupler is to be decided (quick and dirty v nice ones)
[23:25:48] <seb_kuzminsky> lathe head will become mill head?
[23:26:00] <archivist> yes
[23:26:08] <seb_kuzminsky> what size steppers?
[23:26:25] <archivist> good bearings and morse 2 in the headstock
[23:27:01] <seb_kuzminsky> skinny puppy, that's a blast from the past hehe
[23:27:42] <seb_kuzminsky> archivist: you got the control electronics all set?
[23:28:03] <archivist> 3 axis running tested
[23:28:07] <seb_kuzminsky> sweet
[23:28:31] <seb_kuzminsky> what size steppers & power supply?
[23:28:43] <archivist> 180ncm motors
[23:30:29] <archivist> 30 volt psu
[23:30:37] <SkinnypuppY34> AAhhh Puppy fan ? Here's a puppy song set to 1929 Micky Mouse Haunted House. It's neat synch up http://youtube.com/watch?v=xy9s8iu0Uxo
[23:31:06] <archivist> delays at this end tending to lathe when it reaches end of self act
[23:31:55] <archivist> and the stop is missing rhs
[23:33:22] <seb_kuzminsky> archivist: is your lathe CNC currently?
[23:33:28] <archivist> no
[23:33:47] <archivist> using an old 1956 shaublin
[23:34:46] <seb_kuzminsky> skinnypuppy: sweet :-)
[23:40:47] <archivist> * archivist contemplates a dogclutch coupling with enough space to jam an o-ring in
[23:55:28] <seb_kuzminsky> later...