#emc | Logs for 2008-01-16

[00:00:18] <Roguish> didn't have an integrated power supply in it (yet).
[00:00:41] <Roguish> but it was making a motor spin on the bench.
[00:01:14] <eric_U> what was the control?
[00:01:41] <Roguish> ?
[00:01:56] <eric_U> was it an 5i20?
[00:02:29] <Roguish> oh, strickly on the bench now.
[00:02:49] <eric_U> so it was stand alone, no computer involved?
[00:03:07] <Roguish> yeah, an amp.
[00:03:31] <Roguish> guess it would take a pwm input eventually.
[00:03:51] <eric_U> spinning a 3 phase motor generally requires something a lot like a computer
[00:03:56] <Roguish> they playing. developing.
[00:04:35] <Roguish> a Fairchild igbt block in it.
[00:05:07] <Roguish> give it a few months.
[00:06:11] <eric_U> I got baldor to sell me spare rotors for the brushless motor they are selling me
[00:06:26] <eric_U> "we don't usually sell spares with our motors"
[00:07:05] <eric_U> I told him his customers usually aren't intending to smoke the motors he sells them either, but I'm special
[00:08:28] <eric_U> I was looking at the International Rectifier IRAMS chips. They would mate up to a 5i20 to drive a brushless motor really well
[00:10:14] <Roguish> i asked Mesa about IR's and they said the Fairchild's are less expensive.
[00:53:39] <BigJohnT> does anyone know how many teeth per inch on a 24 pitch gear rack?
[00:54:00] <SWPadnos> err - 24?
[00:54:07] <SWPadnos> or is that 24 diametral pitch?
[00:54:26] <BigJohnT> diametral pitch I think
[00:54:58] <SWPadnos> in that case it's 24 teeth on a 1" diameter gear, I think
[00:55:09] <SWPadnos> so it should be 24/PI teeth/inch on the rack
[00:55:13] <SWPadnos> I think :)
[00:55:24] <BigJohnT> ok, I think LOL
[00:55:39] <BigJohnT> that's what I thought but I'll do more checking
[00:56:59] <BigJohnT> just looking at a 32 pitch torch and it's 10 teeth per inch...
[00:57:15] <SWPadnos> or close anyway :)
[00:58:47] <BigJohnT> here is one that is 24 pitch and has 8 teeth per inch...
[00:59:02] <SWPadnos> huh
[00:59:07] <SWPadnos> 24/pi ~= 8
[00:59:13] <SWPadnos> 32/pi ~=10
[00:59:25] <BigJohnT> that is what the site says
[00:59:30] <BigJohnT> for the racks
[00:59:38] <SWPadnos> oh, ok
[00:59:44] <SWPadnos> that'll be a little off, I think
[00:59:49] <SWPadnos> what do you think
[00:59:53] <BigJohnT> hows that?
[01:00:01] <SWPadnos> just thinking out loud :)
[01:00:12] <BigJohnT> I do that a lot
[01:02:45] <BigJohnT> time to cook pizza for the wife and me... bbl
[01:18:07] <karl1> Anyone tried the Linistepper driver yet?
[01:23:15] <fenn> karl1: the general opinion is that it's too low voltage to be fast enough
[01:24:15] <fenn> that and being unipolar limits it
[01:25:25] <karl1> I just recieved 3 Linistepper kits(axis) to play with...
[01:27:31] <karl1> I had a few "freebee" unipolar steppers in the 100oz/in size to play with, so I bought the boards hoping to controll them using a breakout board and the parallel port of a spare laptop I got
[01:32:02] <tomp> whats the suggested ratio for stepper driver output voltage to stepper motor rated voltage?
[01:32:21] <jmkasunich> 10x to 25x for chopper drives, per mariss
[01:32:29] <tomp> ! wow thx
[01:32:40] <fenn> tomp: due to the proliferation of different types of steppers, the rule of thumb applies less universally
[01:33:00] <tomp> ah note 'chopper' mine isnt
[01:33:07] <tomp> right
[01:33:12] <fenn> tomp: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Stepper_Formulas
[01:33:31] <tomp> cool
[01:34:31] <tomp> good thing i can measure miliHenrys
[01:36:22] <tomp> too bad i dont have a thermometer to check the limit ;-(
[01:36:46] <fenn> steal a temp sensor chip from a piece of computer ram :)
[01:37:04] <fenn> er.. something like that
[01:39:21] <fenn> measure the expansion with a micrometer
[01:46:00] <tomp> i tried to get a feel for C to F using units units centigrade fahrenheit unknown unit fahrenheit :-) then got it from some javascript ... 80C ~= 176F. i think i can guess when that is approaching
[01:46:15] <fenn> units 'tempC(123)' tempF
[01:46:31] <tomp> ah! i didnt get that from man
[01:46:31] <fenn> degC and degF are for differences in temperature
[01:46:58] <fenn> bash tries to intepret the () so you need quotes if you use them
[01:47:06] <tomp> gotcha
[01:47:29] <fenn> and another gotcha is i think it sometimes interprets "-" as multiply rather than subtract
[01:47:35] <fenn> i.e. oz-in
[01:48:48] <fenn> btw celsius is slightly different from centigrade
[01:49:49] <tomp> yeh it didnt like celcius or Celcius either ( before u told me the correct format )
[01:50:05] <fenn> celsius is the SI unit
[01:52:52] <fenn> (in case anyone is curious http://www.sizes.com/units/temperature_centigrade.htm )
[01:53:14] <tomp> btw: one of those chinese engraver sites had a hexapod as a standard model ( re: the cnc engravers aram posted yesterday morning) the hex is one of the links i posted last nite
[01:53:26] <fenn> oh really (me looks)
[01:53:57] <fenn> i got distracted by the steampunk page
[01:58:51] <fenn> tomp: i dont see it. which link?
[01:59:11] <tomp> i been looking, cant see it, i'll get it for you
[02:18:45] <thalx> I have a question about the RTAI latency test...
[02:19:01] <thalx> Are the steps listed right?
[02:19:06] <thalx> sudo mkdir /dev/rtf; sudo mknod /dev/rtf/3 c 150 3;
[02:19:33] <thalx> sudo mknod /dev/rtf3 c 150 3;
[02:19:45] <thalx> cd /usr/realtime*/testsuite/kern/latency; ./run
[02:20:07] <tomp> didnt find it yet but did find the exact characters from aram's machines ... Jinan DaMing http://www.madeinchina.com/2736929/P5831706/Engraving-and-Milling-Machine.shtml
[02:21:07] <fenn> thalx: i did it without /dev/rtf (just /dev/rtf3)
[02:22:36] <thalx> It just looks like the 2nd part of line 1 is a fat=fingering of line 2 ... or vice-versa.
[02:23:53] <thalx> I've got a P3@700 MHz that's giving me ... numbers much much larger than stepconf wizard will accept.
[02:23:59] <fenn> i think it's rtai not being able to make up their mind...
[02:24:39] <fenn> thalx: try running with no X server, turn off crap in the bios, etc
[02:24:40] <SWPadnos> I think some tests need the /dev/rtf/* files, and others just the /dev/rtf*
[02:24:57] <fenn> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?troubleshooting
[02:25:06] <fenn> agh stupid usemod
[02:25:18] <fenn> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting
[02:25:24] <SWPadnos> I'ver also seen the tests fail if run as a user, but run if run with sudo (but I don't know the reasons or specific situations)
[02:25:26] <thalx> But how else are you supposed to "exercise" it? ;-) This is supposed to be a stress test, right?
[02:26:05] <fenn> thalx: doctor, it hurts when i bend over and stick my tongue out
[02:26:35] <fenn> some machines just aren't cut out for realtime
[02:26:52] <fenn> usually the ones people want to use because they are small, etc
[02:28:24] <eric_U> it's not a stress test
[02:28:38] <eric_U> we should probably come up with a stress test, but that's really difficult
[02:29:06] <maddash> fenn: kelvin is the si unit
[02:29:26] <SWPadnos> kelvin is the absolute-zero based SI unit
[02:29:28] <eric_U> Rankin has a cooler name though
[02:29:55] <maddash> yrah, I'm just being a ass
[02:30:04] <SWPadnos> it's OK, I'm used to it
[02:30:29] <maddash> "21:23:26 <SWPadnos> you use the actual hardware SPI port on an AVR or something, and it'll be plenty fast"
[02:30:35] <SWPadnos> yep
[02:30:57] <eric_U> SWP, you ever use MSPs?
[02:31:01] <SWPadnos> ?
[02:31:07] <SWPadnos> probably not :)
[02:31:09] <eric_U> MSP430
[02:31:34] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I dimly recognize the name, but I can't remember if that's a Hitachi chip or a DSP (or something else entirely)
[02:31:43] <eric_U> TI microprocessor
[02:31:44] <SWPadnos> never used them
[02:31:47] <SWPadnos> ok, nope
[02:32:07] <SWPadnos> the last TI MCU I used (non-DSP) was in my 99/4A computer
[02:32:11] <eric_U> I was disinclined to use it but they have some very attractive versions
[02:32:26] <fenn> disinclined why? just too many irons in the fire?
[02:32:39] <eric_U> their older stuff was pretty cranky
[02:32:43] <SWPadnos> there's a peripheral for that series (I think) called the TPU - a timing processor unit, which is very cool
[02:32:58] <SWPadnos> their SDP568xx series in cranky, that's or sure
[02:33:01] <SWPadnos> DSP ...
[02:33:07] <SWPadnos> (not SDP)
[02:33:26] <eric_U> 56xxxx would suggest motorola?
[02:33:42] <SWPadnos> oh yeah, so it was :)
[02:33:44] <eric_U> TI is all about the TMS320
[02:33:50] <SWPadnos> yep
[02:33:53] <eric_U> which might be crankier
[02:34:01] <SWPadnos> got the dev kit for that, but never used it in anything
[02:34:21] <SWPadnos> I suspect that all DSPs are cranky in some way
[02:34:22] <eric_U> I winning then, I have the dev kit for both, and never used either
[02:34:38] <ds2> no MSP430s?
[02:34:53] <eric_U> That's what I'm working with now
[02:35:02] <eric_U> I like it but I use C
[02:35:41] <SWPadnos> the problem I had with the 568xx was that there was so much initialization needed, it was nearly impossible to write the whole program in assembly
[02:35:52] <SWPadnos> the thing had like 2k of config registers that had to be set just so
[02:36:27] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I stopped by one of the remaining suprlus places today... zilch
[02:36:37] <SWPadnos> bummer then
[02:36:44] <eric_U> JymmmEMC: where you at?
[02:36:50] <JymmmEMC> sjc
[02:36:55] <SWPadnos> I guess I should see about getting wireless working again, so I can tell which laptop to bring
[02:37:06] <SWPadnos> so I'll be in and out and disconnecting a lot :)
[02:37:11] <eric_U> is that san josey california?
[02:37:16] <JymmmEMC> yep
[02:37:45] <eric_U> if the surplus is drying up out there, we're in big trouble
[02:38:01] <JymmmEMC> it's dried up here during the dot-bomb
[02:38:21] <eric_U> making real products went out of style
[02:38:23] <JymmmEMC> only like three remaining and ify at that
[02:38:28] <eric_U> too much work
[02:38:55] <JymmmEMC> well 4, but that later one isn't really surplus too much. mostly components.
[02:41:04] <eric_U> it's freakish having two SWP's in here at once
[02:41:10] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[02:41:30] <fenn> it's almost as bad as having two Jymmm's
[02:41:40] <eric_U> or two eric_u's
[02:41:47] <toastydeath> what about me =(
[02:42:03] <eric_U> yes, you are suitably freakish
[02:42:11] <toastydeath> yaay.
[02:42:27] <SWPadnos> its scary having one of you
[02:42:41] <eric_U> OR IS IT????
[02:43:03] <SWPadnos> yes, yes it is
[02:43:07] <maddash> SWPadnos: sorry, I was indisposed
[02:43:12] <eric_U> you're right
[02:43:29] <maddash> SWPadnos: I meant to ask what you meant by, "hardware SPI port"
[02:43:45] <SWPadnos> the SPI port that's in most AVR chips
[02:44:03] <maddash> I don't get it -- the rabbit chips have SPI, too
[02:44:05] <SWPadnos> maybe all of them - they're programmed with SPI
[02:44:17] <maddash> and I just discovered that the onboard A/D comms are done with SPI
[02:44:28] <SWPadnos> I was referring to the ADC I'm using - the one you've got may not be SPI
[02:44:47] <fenn> all of them have it, but some of them are less convenient to use
[02:44:48] <SWPadnos> ok, then if you write your own ADC library, and deal with interrupts and stuff, it might be OK
[02:45:09] <maddash> the spec requires that a "Chip select" pin be asserted 0 before sending serial bytes
[02:45:18] <maddash> does it sound like spi?
[02:45:24] <fenn> yes
[02:45:44] <maddash> see, SWPadnos, I thought that you meant an external, seperate chip dedicated to SPI
[02:45:59] <fenn> should have CS MISO MOSI SCK
[02:46:11] <maddash> b/c with the rabbit, the SPI is done inside the same ucontroller housing
[02:46:17] <maddash> fenn: yes.
[02:47:21] <maddash> well, in the spec (http://measure.igpp.ucla.edu/hemisphere/Manuals/ads7870.pdf) it's termed, CS, SCLK, DIN, DOUT
[02:48:25] <maddash> this is so aggravating -- SCLK is controlled by an 8-bit timer, which in turn is clocked by a 29.491201*0.5MHz clock
[02:49:18] <maddash> I hacked the timer countdown to 0 inside the rabbit lib, so that each A/D sampling takes, on avg, 71 us
[02:49:20] <SWPadnos__> SWPadnos__ is now known as SWPadnos
[02:49:50] <maddash> and still, I can't read more than 4 channels during each 1440Hz interrupt
[02:50:16] <SWPadnos> and you're not reading the channels at the same time either
[02:51:01] <maddash> no, but 71us * 4 = .284 ms << 1/1.44KHz = .6944444444 ms
[02:51:27] <SWPadnos> how are you measuring the 71 us?
[02:51:48] <SWPadnos> also, what do you mean by "can't read more than 4" - does the rabbit lock up?
[02:52:15] <maddash> well, I compiled my hacked lib, then commanded 20000 sequential A/D samplings, then measured the elapsed time in ms
[02:52:34] <maddash> I mean, I can't do more than 4 sequential samplings
[02:53:01] <maddash> doing 5 or more causes the IDE to spew, "Debug Polling Timeout"
[02:53:34] <maddash> and all this is after I lower the debug/download bauds to 9600/57600, respectively
[02:53:48] <jmkasunich> dammit - I should know better than to trust ANYTHING
[02:53:59] <SWPadnos> you probably need to allow their debug stub code to run from time to time
[02:54:01] <jmkasunich> somebody reground my 60 degree dovetail cutter to 70 degrees
[02:54:08] <SWPadnos> heh - oops
[02:54:22] <toastydeath> haha amazing
[02:54:22] <SWPadnos> probably the same person who hid your T-nut last night
[02:54:33] <jmkasunich> 60 deg is clearly stamped on the shank
[02:54:37] <jmkasunich> no, it wasn't me
[02:54:41] <jmkasunich> I bought it surplus
[02:54:45] <jmkasunich> now I know why it was surplus
[02:54:46] <SWPadnos> oh - bummer
[02:55:02] <gezar> jmk whats the shank size on it?
[02:55:13] <jmkasunich> 3/8"
[02:55:30] <gezar> hmm, 1/2 wide cutter max?
[02:55:32] <maddash> is this the prison variety, or what?
[02:55:47] <jmkasunich> its 0.6ish in diameter at the fat end
[02:56:00] <gezar> dangit, thats a bit large
[02:56:21] <jmkasunich> I bet it was 5/8 before they ground it
[02:56:40] <eric_U> those bastages
[02:56:48] <jmkasunich> doesn't seem large to me - only 5/16 depth of cut
[02:56:49] <gezar> hahaha, ive got prison shank stuck in my head now
[02:57:16] <fenn> 70 degree sharpened toothbrush
[02:58:05] <jmkasunich> now I need to tear down my milling setup in order to regrind the cutter
[02:58:30] <jmkasunich> and it will suck, since I can't do proper primary and secondary angles or anything
[02:59:06] <fenn> you dont have a bench grinder?
[02:59:45] <maddash_> wtf?
[02:59:54] <jmkasunich> if you can grind an 8 flute dovetail cutter with the proper angles (+/- a fraction of a degree) using a bench grinder, my hat's off to you
[03:00:12] <fenn> i thought this was a single point threading bit
[03:00:24] <jmkasunich> I said dovetail cutter
[03:00:26] <fenn> nevermind i'm blind
[03:00:32] <maddash_> * maddash_ is counting cycles
[03:00:40] <maddash_> I wonder if I could hookup HAL to do true RMS
[03:01:16] <fenn> jmk you could make a carbide insert holder
[03:01:52] <fenn> might be easier than trying to regrind 8 flutes
[03:01:54] <jmkasunich> flycutter? (single cutting edge)
[03:01:57] <fenn> yes
[03:02:23] <eric_U> are you cutting dovetails with this dovetail cutter?
[03:02:28] <jmkasunich> yes
[03:02:30] <jmkasunich> in cast iron
[03:03:21] <eric_U> sorry, I have nothing constructive to add, as you probably knew
[03:03:38] <SWPLinux> yay!
[03:04:06] <eric_U> SWP, is that your laptop?
[03:04:17] <SWPLinux> there could still be issues (with security and the like), but here I am on the laptop via wi-fi
[03:04:19] <SWPLinux> yep
[03:04:26] <fenn> anyone ever made piezoelectric ceramics?
[03:04:33] <SWPLinux> someone must have
[03:04:38] <fenn> i mean, someone who's here
[03:04:40] <eric_U> they do that a lot around here
[03:04:53] <fenn> is it the sort of thing i could do in a garage?
[03:04:59] <eric_U> I'm not sure
[03:05:01] <SWPLinux> hmmm. this laptop could use a different color scheme for CHatzilla
[03:05:56] <maddash_> find -iname "*swp*"
[03:06:01] <SWPLinux> heh
[03:06:12] <eric_U> what do you want to do with the piezo?
[03:06:36] <JymmmEMC> finger burners!!!
[03:06:38] <fenn> thermoacoustic devices and active vibration damping for hexapods
[03:06:45] <fenn> JymmmEMC: yep pretty close
[03:07:03] <eric_U> that's cool
[03:07:14] <eric_U> I use them as sensors
[03:07:22] <fenn> meh. i get into lots of stuff but never finish
[03:07:36] <eric_U> story of my life
[03:08:23] <fenn> supposedly one can detect the vibration of a single atom with a piezo
[03:08:54] <fenn> * fenn is reading about robert forward
[03:08:57] <eric_U> sounds unlikely
[03:09:41] <SWPLinux> seems possible with a 12-atom piezzo ;)
[03:09:57] <SWPLinux> hmmm. may need to get used to this keyboard a bit
[03:10:08] <SWPLinux> jeez - you're as bad as me
[03:10:23] <eric_U> he wants to be just like you
[03:10:30] <maddash> yeah, I want your arm boards
[03:10:31] <SWPLinux> ok, time to leave now
[03:10:33] <SWPLinux> :)
[03:10:34] <SWPLinux> heh
[03:10:40] <maddash> * maddash waves
[03:10:47] <SWPLinux> once I get them designed, I'll let you know
[03:11:06] <eric_U> one thing I would never buy on ebay: endoscope
[03:11:17] <SWPLinux> "only used once!"
[03:11:48] <eric_U> here's a job for you: I had a colonoscopy, there was an endoscope salesman there
[03:12:13] <SWPLinux> that seems icky
[03:12:36] <SWPLinux> ok, time to turn off the wireless again
[03:12:48] <eric_U> that's going to reduce his connectivity
[03:12:51] <jmkasunich> has anybody ever bought endmills or other cutters from enco?
[03:13:03] <fenn> drill bits?
[03:13:03] <SWPadnos> only for those PCs connected via wireless
[03:13:26] <jmkasunich> Mcmaster wants $41 for a dovetail cutter, which makes my frugal bone rebel - I paid $9.50 for the one I have
[03:13:31] <jmkasunich> enco wants $16
[03:13:40] <jmkasunich> for $16, its not worth trying to fix this one
[03:13:46] <fenn> indeed
[03:14:05] <eric_U> quality really matters for some things
[03:14:11] <eric_U> dunno if that's one of them or not
[03:14:19] <jmkasunich> indeed
[03:14:23] <jmkasunich> this was is weldon brand
[03:14:40] <jmkasunich> if some bastard hadn't reground it it would have been a bargain at $9.50
[03:14:45] <eric_U> I bought a mid-range 4-40 tap from mcmaster, and it was so much better than the cheap crap
[03:14:56] <jmkasunich> yep
[03:15:00] <fenn> eric_U: what's a mid-range tap?
[03:15:08] <eric_U> it wasn't top of the line
[03:15:19] <eric_U> or the cheapest
[03:15:20] <jmkasunich> but its one thing to buy a $10 tap instead of a $3 tap, when you know you'll be using it in the future
[03:15:35] <jmkasunich> its another to spend $41 for something you'll likely only use once or twice
[03:15:49] <fenn> i find the $3 taps work great, provided you get the right one
[03:16:03] <fenn> specifically the ones marked "ground thread"
[03:16:07] <eric_U> just don't buy taps at the hardware store
[03:16:11] <fenn> yeah no kidding
[03:16:33] <fenn> or from harbor fright
[03:16:38] <eric_U> might as well just ask the cashier to take your money and leave empty handed
[03:16:51] <fenn> and hit you in the head with a rubber mallet ten times
[03:17:08] <toastydeath> then your car explodes
[03:17:27] <eric_U> then they come get you for insurance fraud
[03:17:36] <jmkasunich> MSC wants $23.06
[03:17:49] <eric_U> is it the same cutter?
[03:17:50] <jmkasunich> certainly still an import, but might be better than the enco version
[03:17:56] <jmkasunich> same dimensions
[03:18:05] <jmkasunich> not neccessarily the same quality ;-)
[03:18:07] <eric_U> because that's the kind of difference they charge for the MSC invoice
[03:18:12] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:18:18] <jmkasunich> considering that they're the same company
[03:18:27] <toastydeath> does your machine support rigid tapping
[03:18:36] <jmkasunich> mine? no
[03:18:39] <toastydeath> oh
[03:18:52] <jmkasunich> its a shoptask with single phase motors - can't reverse, gotta coast to a stop first
[03:19:48] <jmkasunich> I think I'll order the $16 enco cutter and see what happens
[03:20:03] <toastydeath> i think the really good form taps are like 30 bucks from msc and last forever
[03:20:14] <toastydeath> but you need rigid tapping
[03:20:27] <jmkasunich> I tap on the drill press anyway
[03:20:35] <eric_U> what's a form tap?
[03:20:49] <jmkasunich> forms the threads (displaces metal) instead of cutting them
[03:20:50] <toastydeath> no chips
[03:20:59] <toastydeath> yeah, what he said!
[03:21:54] <toastydeath> you can tap as fast as you want and fairly deep
[03:22:09] <jmkasunich> damn enco - nobody home
[03:22:23] <eric_U> so your hole has to be bigger than the root diameter?
[03:22:50] <toastydeath> i dunno, i never looked at the root diameter
[03:22:57] <toastydeath> er
[03:23:27] <toastydeath> root of the tap?
[03:23:43] <eric_U> right
[03:23:49] <jmkasunich> eric_U: the hole has to be drilled per the table that comes with the taps ;-)
[03:23:59] <toastydeath> no, the metal flows into the root
[03:24:03] <eric_U> follow the instructions? horrors
[03:24:05] <toastydeath> it's a different hole diameter
[03:24:26] <toastydeath> the hole is bigger than the hole for a standard tap
[03:26:03] <SWPadnos> right - some of the metal "outside" the hole gets pushed into the hole
[03:26:16] <toastydeath> also the threads are stronger because of the cold working
[03:26:28] <toastydeath> harder to pull out
[03:47:18] <JymmmEMC> I thought MSC bought Enco last year
[03:47:32] <fenn> longer ago than that
[03:58:02] <tomp> fenn: no can find, sorry
[04:00:59] <jmkasunich> well, this should be interesting - I remembered that I wanted more flange nuts, and I got my original ones from grizzley
[04:01:32] <jmkasunich> they're weird, 3/8-16 thread with a metric head, but they're what I have, the wrench sits next to the machine, so I want the new ones to be the same
[04:01:54] <jmkasunich> checked grizzly and they also have a dovetail cutter for $10.95
[04:02:20] <jmkasunich> I'm almost afraid to see what is looks like, but I ordered one along with the nuts
[04:03:16] <jmkasunich> I just hope the stuff gets here before the weekend
[04:03:41] <SWPadnos> at least Martin Luther King Jr, day isn't a big gift-shipping holiday :)
[04:03:57] <jmkasunich> MLK day isn't a holiday
[04:04:06] <SWPadnos> it is for some people
[04:04:18] <eric_U> post office only
[04:04:24] <jmkasunich> not for me, thats all that matters
[04:04:27] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:04:49] <eric_U> Penn State finally gave the students the day off
[04:05:03] <eric_U> surprised it didn't get them bad publicity
[04:09:41] <dmess> we look like were about to give alotta ppl the day/week/month off.... union negotiations.... :(
[04:10:33] <dmess> but i may et on the g#$%^'ing machines..... ; )
[04:33:35] <SWPadnos> wow! I just copied a 258MB file over the LAN, and it averaged 11.2MB (yes bytes) per second
[04:33:45] <SWPadnos> on 100mbit, through a desktop switch
[04:47:06] <eric_U> I think I get that on the Penn State backbone on a good day
[04:47:51] <SWPadnos> it's around 90 mbits/sec, which is pretty good going through a linksys switch
[04:49:41] <eric_U> somebody is selling a batch of breakout boards on ebay, but no 50 pin
[04:55:31] <eric_U> so when Allen Bradley is in a ebay listing "view similar items" only shows AB auctions
[04:55:39] <eric_U> yaskawa shows a batch of junk
[04:56:31] <eric_U> including a porter cable drywall sander
[05:27:34] <eric_U> Gene Haas went to jail yesterday
[12:59:58] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[13:15:52] <skunkworks464> logger_emc: bookmark
[13:15:52] <skunkworks464> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-01-16.txt
[13:58:28] <alex_joni> hi samco
[13:59:28] <skunkworks464> good morning alex
[13:59:54] <archivist> its afternoo, dinner time!
[14:00:05] <alex_joni> archivist: maybe there
[14:02:20] <alex_joni> skunkworks464: I pm'ed you
[14:05:09] <skunkworks464> skunkworks464 is now known as skunkworks_
[14:12:26] <tomp> gotta try martin's eagle4hal config idea. i been trying to write it from scratch with python cuz i didnt find suitable parsable outputs from any cad/dwg pgm. http://martinschoeneck.de/hal-write
[14:12:30] <tomp> thx martin
[14:14:42] <anonimasu> eric_U: well, ^_^ I think that's a good thing
[15:21:36] <alex_joni> bbl
[15:27:56] <cradek> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=327648&postcount=6
[15:29:06] <SWPadnos> well, at least it's repeatable
[15:29:34] <cradek> strange, that's not what the gcode does, he must have posted the wrong thing
[15:29:45] <cradek> interesting that tcnc gcode loads just fine in emc
[15:30:01] <SWPadnos> it's a "standard" after all :)
[15:30:16] <cradek> uh yeah
[15:30:18] <SWPadnos> he did say that it's all G0 and G1 moves, so that ma yhelp
[15:30:30] <cradek> no, there are some arcs
[15:30:36] <SWPadnos> yep - I see those
[15:31:00] <cradek> Mach reports fault as start and end points of the arc incorrect. [later message]
[15:31:01] <SWPadnos> I was fooled by the "short straight lines" comment at the top
[15:31:17] <SWPadnos> oh, interesting
[15:31:34] <cradek> emc used to have those problems too
[15:32:24] <cradek> I bet tcnc discards fractional steps
[15:32:44] <cradek> I think it works totally in step resolution
[15:32:58] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[15:33:55] <anonimasu> tcnc skips steps. on some hardware
[15:33:57] <SWPadnos> that's only a 200-line program - it couldn't be off by more than around 100 (or maybe 200) steps at the end
[15:34:08] <anonimasu> rather, it omits them.
[15:34:36] <anonimasu> atleast it did the last time I were using it..
[15:34:43] <cradek> the program is 1.5" diameter and 200 steps could be a full turn of the screw couldn't it?
[15:34:52] <SWPadnos> could be
[15:34:58] <anonimasu> moving g0 x10 and sometimes ending up at x8 and x11
[15:36:56] <alpha1125> alpha1125 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[15:37:16] <skunkworks_> the bigger question is... why is cradek surfing around a message board?
[15:37:24] <cradek> the moves aren't even short: about .1 inch each
[15:39:01] <skunkworks_> The only real 'issue' I had with turbo cnc (besides no blending) is the arc feeds where way off.
[15:39:25] <cradek> huh
[15:39:38] <skunkworks_> if you where cutting at 10 ipm - the arc would cut at 1 ipm or similar
[15:40:44] <SWPadnos> heh - funny comment about 304 stainless: "Dull tools and over-light cuts will work harden it, and then it truly becomes the demon material from hell."
[15:43:33] <cradek> there's nothing like the steel wool you get from stainless
[15:45:33] <jepler> tomp: eagle's "export netlist" looks tractable to parse .. I haven't looked at martin's script though.
[15:45:40] <archivist> getting under the skin is very important on some metals
[15:51:18] <skunkworks_> cradek: I could post a screen shot of axis..
[15:51:27] <skunkworks_> It seems to load just fine.
[15:51:43] <cradek> yeah I'm pretty sure emc could cut those .1" lines correctly :-)
[15:52:06] <cradek> I thought about posting, but I don't want to bother signing up etc.
[15:52:14] <skunkworks_> might plant ideas in his ear..
[15:52:43] <skunkworks_> no issues with the arcs like mach does (laughs histarically)
[15:53:52] <cradek> well I didn't check to see if the arcs actually have a minor problem
[15:54:45] <ALS> SWPadnos: give inconel a shot ,makes 304 look like butter
[15:56:56] <archivist> chilled cast iron
[15:59:13] <archivist> your happily machining butter and suddenly your machine bends out the way and shiny stuff appears, and you have lost the edge on the tool
[16:00:42] <cradek> the first G03 arc checks out, the distances are 6.4233340 and 6.4233336
[16:02:05] <ALS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inconel
[16:10:55] <skunkworks_> damn... that is pretty http://www.electronicsam.com/images/homeshop.png
[16:11:37] <cradek> heh
[16:12:10] <archivist> bah I was expecting a "tidy " workshop
[16:12:22] <archivist> well not really
[16:12:27] <skunkworks_> heh - I am not tidy at all...
[16:12:49] <archivist> nor I
[16:13:23] <archivist> we dont do "tidy" here at all
[16:14:18] <cradek> I've been trying, because I think it's more pleasant to work (and probably safer) when there isn't stuff everywhere
[16:14:41] <cradek> if I can't find something, I just put things away until it shows up
[16:15:46] <archivist> if we cant find something, its a massive tidy up
[16:16:13] <archivist> currently a tailstock missing for a lathe!!
[16:16:17] <skunkworks_> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=327794&postcount=24
[16:17:33] <cradek> cool
[16:17:33] <skunkworks_> I guess I wasn't signed up.. ;)
[16:17:45] <skunkworks_> so - I am a troll
[16:17:48] <skunkworks_> ;)
[16:18:09] <archivist> 10 points for stiring
[17:08:52] <skunkworks_> cradek: http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=327803&postcount=25
[17:10:03] <alex_joni> eww
[17:10:23] <archivist> is that a feature or what!
[17:12:05] <alex_joni> omfg
[17:12:06] <alex_joni> According to the theory of relativity, due to their constant movement and height relative to the Earth-centered inertial reference frame, the clocks on the satellites are affected by their speed (special relativity) as well as their gravitational potential (general relativity).
[17:12:24] <alex_joni> For the GPS satellites, general relativity predicts that the atomic clocks at GPS orbital altitudes will tick more rapidly, by about 45.9 microseconds (.s) per day, because they are in a weaker gravitational field than atomic clocks on Earth's surface. Special relativity predicts that atomic clocks moving at GPS orbital speeds will tick more slowly than stationary ground clocks by about 7.2 .s per day.
[17:13:04] <alex_joni> To account for this, the frequency standard onboard each satellite is given a rate offset prior to launch, making it run slightly slower than the desired frequency on Earth; specifically, at 10.22999999543 MHz instead of 10.23 MHz.
[17:13:20] <skunkworks_> the show 'the universe' touched on this with thier gravity show.
[17:17:16] <skunkworks_> is tha supposed to be 7.2 microseconds?
[17:17:23] <alex_joni> us .. yeah
[17:19:05] <jepler> hm, (45.9 - 7.2) microsecond/day is abou t4.4791167e-10, but 1-10.22999999543/10.23 is about 4.4672543e-10
[17:19:32] <alex_joni> jepler: probably rounded off values
[17:20:33] <jepler> yeah the 45.9 and 7.2 must be rounded
[17:21:15] <alex_joni> "Thus to compensate for this large secular rate, the clocks are given a rate offset prior to satellite launch of - 4.465 parts in 1010 from their nominal frequency of 10.23 MHz so that on average they appear to run at the same rate as a clock on the ground. The actual frequency of the satellite clocks before launch is thus 10.22999999543 MHz."
[17:21:25] <alex_joni> from another article
[17:21:58] <fenn> alex_joni: you can do the experiment on earth too.. google 'gravitational redshift'
[17:22:06] <cradek> skunkworks_: does he mean mach?
[17:23:03] <skunkworks_> I am almost thinking turbocnc..
[17:23:27] <cradek> ok I don't want to read the whole thread again to figure it out :-)
[17:23:41] <skunkworks_> "Apparently TurboCNC does not retain the preceeding block's X value."
[17:24:46] <alex_joni> http://vts.bc.ca/pics3/tcncd.jpg
[17:24:50] <alex_joni> haha.. nice fingerprint
[17:25:18] <fenn> that's a weird looking toolpath
[17:25:26] <alex_joni> bet you can use that to authenticate on his laptop (if he has one with fingerprint reader)
[17:25:41] <fenn> is it supposed to be a lotus (with lots of backlash)?
[17:25:53] <alex_joni> http://vts.bc.ca/pics3/tcncc.jpg
[17:25:54] <cradek> it's from a buggy control
[17:26:12] <alex_joni> it's supposed to be this: http://vts.bc.ca/pics3/tcnca.jpg
[17:27:07] <lewin1> lewin1 is now known as lewing_
[17:29:29] <cradek> yikes someone is recommending making change gears with 22/7 ratio (sort of like pi) to cut hobs
[17:31:24] <cradek> skunkworks should recommend 355/113 :-)
[17:31:45] <cradek> actually a 113 change gear would be a fine size, but 355 is a little much
[17:32:02] <cradek> huh, 355 is 5*71
[17:33:59] <fenn> you could use 157/50 if you lived in alabama
[17:35:01] <cradek> that would be nice - we should standardize.
[17:35:46] <archivist> for me its whatever will fit on the studs and is near enough
[17:36:31] <fenn> you could use a pi threads per inch leadscrew
[17:37:14] <archivist> * archivist has been making a 30DP ish worm today
[17:38:01] <cradek> you could get enough electronic gearing for threading with one encoder and one motor. I wonder if anyone would want that.
[17:38:46] <archivist> I cant wait to get the lathe modded
[17:39:08] <fenn> and if you use TCNC you dont even need the encoder!
[17:39:17] <archivist> hehe
[17:40:16] <fenn> one could cut a pi threaded leadscrew by setting the tailstock taper and cutting a thread with the taper attachment
[17:42:05] <alex_joni> hmm.. could I set up raid 1 using a hdd and a nfs share?
[17:52:22] <cradek> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110195198389
[17:53:31] <archivist> bah at that price it was worth driving 120 each way to fetch
[17:54:04] <cradek> the photos leave a bit to the imagination
[17:55:13] <jepler> hm on that page I simply get 'This page may have moved or is no longer available'
[17:55:35] <alex_joni> javascript is borken for opera & some ebay pages
[17:56:00] <cradek> loads for me
[17:56:11] <archivist> refreshes for me
[17:56:18] <alex_joni> jepler: I get the same.. but try to scroll waaaay down
[17:56:20] <jepler> oh -- looks like noscript breaks that page too
[17:57:02] <alex_joni> yeah, javascript disabled causes bad things :)
[17:57:25] <alex_joni> and with it enabled, it simply runs away
[17:57:43] <alex_joni> it's quite funny.. to see the page scroll down.. I need to keep scrolling to catch up with it
[17:57:46] <jepler> hah
[17:57:53] <jepler> I don't have that problem after enabling scripts (firefox)
[18:46:48] <tomp2> jepler: a lot of systems would display ho-made widgets ok, and even save some netlist.
[18:46:54] <tomp2> but martin's trying to crack the nut 'parse the netlist into a hal file' which is way cool.
[18:47:01] <tomp2> i gave up on using others and was trying myself.
[18:47:04] <tomp2> i got gridded diplay and editable polylines, no read/write yet, so his work is very interesting.
[18:48:03] <tomp2> and maybe an import van be done :-) read a halfile into an eagle display
[18:48:11] <tomp2> can
[18:56:06] <alex_joni> tomp2: the issue with import is where to place the components
[19:03:15] <tomp2> spaghetti, let user fix it, just place 'em in a dogpile like manual router
[19:03:52] <tomp2> theres no wayto make visual sense automaticly ( imo )
[19:04:47] <fenn> you can place them such that the total length of connecting lines is minimized
[19:05:00] <alex_joni> fenn: right on top of each other
[19:05:00] <tomp2> and theres a lot to dload in this new version 416
[19:05:20] <fenn> alex_joni: no, with some margin between components
[19:05:33] <alex_joni> fenn: oh :P the hard way
[19:05:39] <tomp2> fenn: right but thats short path not visual sense like having the transmission connected to the wheels sense
[19:06:00] <tomp2> so you get a nice layout that is scrambled logicly
[19:06:21] <fenn> you could put hardware drivers on the right side and emc's outputs on the left..
[19:06:31] <tomp2> good start
[19:06:45] <tomp2> god's right hand :-)
[19:06:54] <fenn> i think eagle is the wrong tool for this
[19:07:16] <tomp2> i gotta look at what he's given us
[19:07:55] <tomp2> arrgh gftp on a slow line
[19:21:08] <tomp2> need alien to cnvrt rpm ( the tgz is actually only OSX)
[19:59:38] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: http://www.intel.com/design/servers/storage/ss4000-E/
[20:11:24] <tomp2> i think martin's tar.gz is just a tar
[20:11:51] <tomp2> cuz tar -xvf opened it and -xzvf didnt
[20:17:08] <christel> [Server Notice] This is to inform you that this server will be going down for a move on Sunday January 20th between 0800 and 0900UTC, we encourage you to connect to a different server before then. Thank you for using freenode and have a good day!
[20:30:00] <tomp2> 2nd chg to martins instructions: he speaks of 'export' and thats a menu item under 'file' but the 'ulp ( user language program ) is actually 'Run' ( the next choice in the menu ( no big deal )
[20:33:28] <tomp2> 1st output with no chgs is http://pastebin.ca/857651
[20:34:06] <skunkworks_> screen shot of eagle?
[20:34:58] <archivist> what is he tring to do with eagle and hal
[20:35:33] <skunkworks_> create connections in eagle.. output a hal file.
[20:35:42] <skunkworks_> (block diagrams)
[20:35:50] <skunkworks_> if I am understanding it correctly
[20:40:22] <archivist> hmm wouldnt it be better to start with an open-source source of netlist (we can feed back and or mod it to suit)
[20:41:01] <fenn> of course
[20:41:02] <cradek> archivist: surely so
[20:41:12] <tomp2> screen shot of 'src' file http://home.arcor.de/froderick/hal-write/martin-config.png
[20:41:50] <skunkworks_> that is actully pretty cool
[20:41:54] <JymmmEMC> JymmmEMC is now known as Jymmm
[20:41:58] <tomp2> congrats martin, thanq
[20:42:30] <cradek> I agree it's cool
[20:42:38] <fenn> if i could scrapy me brain of the floor i would be working on a dedicated program for that
[20:43:03] <archivist> a modded stepconf on steroids
[20:43:17] <fenn> wouldn't want this to become a de-facto standard or anything
[20:48:40] <tomp2> if people are interested, i'll wiki all the steps i added by wiping & reinstalling again ( i had to be a bit creative )
[20:48:56] <tomp2> hmm, hard to test w/o that hardware...
[20:55:33] <fenn> if the hal file looks how you want it, i'd say it works
[20:55:48] <fenn> it won't correct for operator error
[20:56:40] <anonimasu> ugh..
[20:56:52] <anonimasu> I like that screenshot but the 3d look of things is kind of cludgy
[20:57:07] <anonimasu> :)
[21:02:39] <tomp2> my optraS1625 is taking about 3 minutes between printing the indiv sheets of the .sch ( i thought the print was crippled)
[21:03:39] <tomp2> ok , customers are quiet, eagle2hal works, now lunch dangit
[21:06:02] <fenn> i figure it's simple enough to print on one sheet of paper
[21:12:43] <dave_1> Is there a way to one-shot siggen?
[21:13:14] <skunkworks_> dave_1!
[21:13:23] <dave_1> hi there
[21:14:01] <alex_joni> hi dave_1
[21:14:08] <dave_1> hi alex
[21:14:11] <alex_joni> what do you mean one-shot siggen? (only one period?)
[21:14:21] <dave_1> yes ..
[21:14:40] <alex_joni> hmm.. I'd use the rectangle output to toggle a flipflop
[21:14:49] <alex_joni> which disables the siggen
[21:15:22] <dave_1> I can try just running siggen first but capturing stuff in halscope may be interesting;
[21:17:10] <dave_1> still have to start and stop the rectangle output don't I
[21:18:02] <alex_joni> no.. they are also generated by siggen
[21:18:13] <alex_joni> you only have to reset the flipflop when you want a new period
[21:18:58] <dave_1> can I set and clear the FF directly?
[21:19:47] <alex_joni> I think there's a flipflop amongst the comps
[21:19:55] <alex_joni> and if so, it most likely has a pin or param
[21:19:59] <alex_joni> you can set that with setp
[21:20:14] <dave_1> if so then ff -> ff ->siggen should do the job
[21:21:06] <dave_1> I'll have to go look. HAL is still pretty dense to me ...
[21:21:38] <dave_1> as with so much stuff the concepts are fairly easy it is the implementation that I find difficult
[21:22:06] <jepler> at a higher level, what is the result you're trying to get?
[21:22:33] <dave_1> slow square wave to motion .... to get response
[21:23:28] <dave_1> probably have to go with really high accel
[21:23:42] <dave_1> since I think I'm still within the motion loop
[21:24:10] <jepler> so you want to get an output of +1.0 (or some other number) for a short time after some trigger, and 0.0 the rest of the time?
[21:24:36] <dave_1> be able to set output from 1 to 10 v upon command
[21:24:53] <dave_1> on just long enough to get up to speed
[21:26:35] <alex_joni> sounds like a step signal
[21:26:43] <dave_1> yep
[21:26:47] <alex_joni> maybe you can use oneshot?
[21:26:58] <dave_1> is there a one-shot
[21:27:03] <dave_1> in hal
[21:27:10] <alex_joni> man oneshot
[21:27:17] <dave_1> OK
[21:27:42] <Jymmm> WTH??? This seagate sata drive has a jumper on in (default setting) to limit to 1.5Gb/s, remove the jumper to get 3Gb/s
[21:27:46] <jepler> oneshot will help you generate a 'bit' signal of a given duration (e.g., 10ms, 1s) .. perhaps you could use that with mux2 to output 0 when oneshot's .out is FALSE and the voltage-to-be-tested when it's TRUE.
[21:27:49] <alex_joni> the http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//man/man9/oneshot.9.html
[21:28:05] <alex_joni> jepler: or maybe drive the siggen.enable pin with the oneshot
[21:28:10] <anonimasu> Jymmm: really, I thought thoose jumpers were to limit the accessible size of the hdd's
[21:28:24] <anonimasu> Jymmm: for hdd's not supporting big drives
[21:28:33] <alex_joni> Jymmm: sata 1 vs sata 2 ?
[21:28:34] <jepler> but siggen is for delivering a varying output according to time
[21:28:50] <skunkworks_> Jymmm: I have seen that also.
[21:29:13] <skunkworks_> yes - sata 1 vs sata 2
[21:29:15] <alex_joni> Jymmm: might because of borken old controllers that aren't compatible with newer drives..
[21:29:25] <dave_1> since the output of siggen can be symmetrical I shouldn't go very far
[21:29:42] <Jymmm> Just found it kinda weird is all... I "get it" that it's for compatability purposes, but I dind't notice it in the ext case, and I'm going "Man, this is gawd slow"
[21:29:54] <alex_joni> dave_1: you can also generate a step pulse of the amplitude and timing you need, and run that through a limiting block
[21:30:25] <alex_joni> Jymmm: Backward compatibility between SATA 1.5 Gbit/s controllers and SATA 3.0 Gbit/s devices was important, so SATA/300's autonegotiation sequence is designed to fallback to SATA/150 speed (1.5 Gbit/s rate) when in communication with such devices. In practice, some older SATA controllers do not properly implement SATA speed negotiation. Affected systems require user-intervention to manually set the SATA 3.0 Gbit/s peripherals to 1.5 Gbit/s m
[21:30:26] <dave_1> so I connect the output of siggen to the right motion dac and I've got a start?
[21:30:45] <alex_joni> dave_1: don't forget to extend that life insurance
[21:30:48] <alex_joni> and take a step back
[21:30:51] <alex_joni> :P
[21:30:55] <fenn> dave_1: you're tuning servos with a step function right? why not just hook siggen to the pid loop? (am i missing something?)
[21:31:09] <alex_joni> how about using at_pid ?
[21:31:30] <dave_1> that should be the next step.
[21:31:48] <dave_1> I think on wants a look at the system response without pid in the middle ...
[21:31:55] <dave_1> then goes off and tunes pid
[21:32:09] <fenn> oh. ok, hook siggen to the dac then
[21:32:27] <fenn> or just setp the dac value to whatever you want
[21:32:42] <alex_joni> yeah, that can work too
[21:32:51] <alex_joni> but I'd still use a oneshot
[21:33:02] <fenn> to keep it from running away?
[21:33:10] <tomp2> dave a battery and a switch does servo step, just old school
[21:33:13] <alex_joni> fenn: yeah, if you're slow with the setp 0
[21:33:26] <fenn> setp dac 1; sleep 1; setp dac 0
[21:33:30] <alex_joni> tomp2: now where's the fun in that?
[21:33:43] <alex_joni> you need an ADC to read the battery voltage, then drive a DAC, etc
[21:33:44] <tomp2> it works, has for umpteen years
[21:34:47] <dave_1> tomp2 ... only if halscope will still see the velocity and accel ... which I've not been able to make it do.
[21:35:19] <alex_joni> dave_1: but the encoder works.. right?
[21:35:29] <dave_1> encoder works
[21:35:35] <alex_joni> you were able to see movement in hal by turning the encoder by hand?
[21:36:10] <jepler> dave_1: use a 'ddt' component to find the derivative of position -- that gives you velocity
[21:36:14] <dave_1> I had the stuff working on the bench but now I'm down in the shop and seem to have lost some sigs
[21:36:51] <dave_1> I think it is time to retreat to the shop and try and make some of this work.
[21:37:17] <alex_joni> have fun :)
[21:37:27] <dave_1> I could use some luck also
[21:37:28] <alex_joni> what board are you using?
[21:37:30] <jepler> http://pastebin.ca/857731
[21:37:33] <dave_1> ;-)
[21:37:38] <jepler> here's what I am thinking of, but I'm not sure I've understood the problem ^^
[21:37:42] <dave_1> motenc-100
[21:37:54] <jepler> also it doesn't address trying to find out and report the attained velocity to the user
[21:38:27] <jepler> there's a 'minmax' component which finds the minimum and maximum ever seen of some input signal
[21:38:52] <alex_joni> I think dave_1 wants to trigger on oneshot, and capture a halscope trace
[21:40:03] <Jymmm> alex_joni: ah, got it.
[21:41:02] <dave_1> jepler ... couldn't find the pastebin
[21:41:20] <jepler> dave_1: weird, I cut and patsted the URL and it worked
[21:41:30] <jepler> if you manually typed it in, make sure you went to pastebin.ca, not pastebin.com
[21:41:58] <dave_1> so did I and didn't get a return
[21:42:00] <dave_1> hmmm
[21:42:28] <dave_1> cut and paste the whole url ... 0 returns
[21:43:27] <dave_1> and yes it was .ca
[21:43:28] <jepler> I put the same thing here: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/one-shot-example.txt
[21:43:30] <archivist> works for me most clients can open a browser window (what I do)
[21:43:51] <dave_1> thank jepler
[21:44:08] <dave_1> I'll go take a look and then run off and play
[21:44:17] <dave_1> see ya later ... thanks all
[21:50:48] <tomp2> dave1: use a real scope with an analog trigger threshold to capture the step response
[21:51:32] <tomp2> urf he left while i looked for 'battery servo step response'
[21:53:59] <fenn> you can do the same with halscope
[21:55:33] <tomp2> analog trigger level in halscope?
[21:56:53] <fenn> yep
[22:03:38] <tomp2> fenn: i didnt know that, i assumed that i'd need a dac to make the level or an adc to read the level
[22:04:09] <tomp2> this is nice, cuz it shows the effect of each of pid to the step response http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/allkb/806F6F0B775FAF32862572FA0052F2AB
[22:05:49] <fenn> i gotta admit i never understood it until i saw it in code
[22:07:59] <alex_joni> oh gawd.. why did I have to do that
[22:08:09] <alex_joni> * alex_joni just watched the 2girl1cup vid
[22:08:36] <fenn> do we want to know?
[22:08:51] <alex_joni> definately not
[22:08:52] <jepler> I think you don't
[22:08:58] <jepler> but luckily for me I've never seen it
[22:09:02] <tomp2> fenn: interesting bit http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jsmec/48/2/234/_pdf it's about step response, hal-like diagrams on a 6dof hexapod
[22:09:45] <cradek> http://kscakes.com/LolCats/Uploads/Saved/what-has-been-seen-cannot-be-unseen.jpg
[22:09:46] <jepler> hm in that digital.ni.com article, what's better about the response in "20" than in "17"? 17 overshoots less and settles just as soon, it looks like to me.
[22:10:01] <cradek> I wondered that too
[22:10:27] <cradek> although it may not quite settle
[22:10:29] <jepler> though the varying vertical scale and small plot size makes it really hard to say for sure
[22:11:00] <tomp2> ? diff is less ringing, 20 has over&under, 17 has over
[22:11:09] <cradek> oh the 4th number is settling time
[22:11:39] <alex_joni> fenn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Girls_1_Cup
[22:12:06] <jepler> bbl
[22:12:10] <jepler> have fun storming the castle
[22:18:22] <alex_joni> fenn: there are some fun reactions to that vid on you tube
[22:19:35] <fenn> i just read a 'film review' - i get the general idea
[22:20:49] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w8c2Z4VN3w
[22:20:56] <Gamma-X> hello everyone
[22:21:29] <Gamma-X> just wanted to appoligize for bein retarted lately.... well more retarted than usual i should say. Im on some medication that makes me realy wierd.
[22:22:32] <fenn> Gamma-X: i just blame the CIA mind control waves
[22:22:46] <alex_joni> and stuff you eat
[22:22:55] <lerman> Borrow and aluminum foil hat from fenn.
[22:23:00] <lerman> an
[22:23:03] <Gamma-X> hahaha
[22:23:16] <fenn> silicon steel or mu-metal works better
[22:23:36] <tomp2> tin foil hat, save u brain from secret gummint rays
[22:23:38] <anonimasu> ^_^
[22:23:42] <Gamma-X> I didnt realize i did this but last night when ordering from digi key i hit on the girl and told her to contact me outside of work...
[22:23:58] <Gamma-X> and she did! lol she said i was cool as hell.
[22:24:07] <fenn> wow
[22:24:11] <lerman> The problem with the steel hats is that they attract the magnets that I use to cure all of may ailments.
[22:24:14] <tomp2> say lol to her a few more times
[22:24:14] <Gamma-X> why did I do that? lol
[22:24:27] <anonimasu> ^_^
[22:24:28] <anonimasu> nice
[22:24:31] <Gamma-X> hahaha
[22:25:00] <fenn> lerman: you can use a layer of bismith to counteract that problem
[22:25:48] <lerman> I tried that but rather than cure my indigestion, it made me constipated.
[22:26:02] <cradek> lerman: try copper bracelets?
[22:26:17] <fenn> it's not the bismuth that makes you constipated, it's the kaolin
[22:26:25] <tomp2> clay
[22:26:30] <lerman> That almost got me electrocuted.
[22:26:39] <lerman> (the cu bracelets)
[22:32:07] <Gamma-X> how often do u guys use coolant?
[22:32:12] <Gamma-X> when cutting aluminum?
[22:33:21] <anonimasu> always
[22:34:58] <archivist> parafin or wax, depends
[22:35:22] <archivist> some harder ones ok without
[22:35:34] <anonimasu> :)
[22:38:08] <fenn> wax isnt a coolant
[22:38:43] <archivist> lubricant to avoid the stickyness of aly
[22:39:12] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:39:17] <archivist> which is the main problem
[22:41:05] <fenn> Gamma-X: boelube is good for drill bits
[22:41:16] <fenn> too expensive for flood though
[22:42:08] <toastydeath> gamma-x: near always
[22:42:41] <toastydeath> coolant allows you to machine aluminum at any speed and any diameter you can swing
[22:42:50] <fenn> i'm thinking biodiesel would make a good flood lubricant
[22:43:14] <toastydeath> it would be an interesting experiment, but offers an interesting disposal problem
[22:43:30] <fenn> well it couldnt be worse than any other stuff
[22:43:40] <toastydeath> yeah
[22:43:53] <fenn> that's basically what the 'enviromentally friendly' stuff is anyway
[22:43:53] <toastydeath> with regular coolant you can evaporate the water off and just dispose of the sludge
[22:44:06] <fenn> it just costs 100 times less
[22:44:09] <toastydeath> true
[22:44:18] <toastydeath> hmm, does it?
[22:44:34] <fenn> eh, it's like $3.50 per gallon i think
[22:44:44] <fenn> last time i checked
[22:44:46] <toastydeath> one 55 gal drum of commercial coolant is like 700 bucks, and aluminum uses a <5% mix
[22:44:51] <toastydeath> w/ water
[22:45:15] <toastydeath> anyway school bye
[22:45:17] <fenn> so i exaggerated, but you _can_ make your own from grease
[22:45:25] <ds2> doesn't that orange cleaner stuff work as a coolant on aluminum?
[22:47:11] <alex_joni> good night guys
[22:49:48] <Gamma-X> anyone remember on the schematics of my machine how i can hook up the front buttons to my vfd?
[22:50:37] <Gamma-X> or would it be better to hook them up to the mesanet cards to let emc know that the spindle is stopped or in reverse.
[22:52:03] <Gamma-X> and let the mesanet card control the vfd.