the Antek power supply is awsome... now I can put up my lab power supply and the industrial one
LawrenceG: how are you communicating between hal and the drives?
those drives have a dspic doing the pid loop.... I used quadrature signals to feed in the position cmd... like a step/dir servo drive only better!
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-01-12.txt
are we well
Hi Robin... all is fine on the west coast
im in the uk, difficult to telll frmo here
I guess I am about 8 hours west of you
so, just commisioning a new machine this w/e
looking good so far
x axis servo is huge
like 60A cont, 150A peak
fun... I used to do a lot of weekend conversions at sawmills.... brutal hours, but has to be running at 06:00 Monday morning.
sounds like you are pulling an "all nighter"
at home relaxing
normal hours here ;)
nice big servo.... what type of drive? an old scr version?
dunno :) bosch indramat
most of the sawmill stuff I played with was hydraulic servos... fast and scary.... some of the drives were >75kw
all controlled with +-50ma hydraulic servo valve
thats jmk territory ;)
hydraulics are interesting.... big pumps, big pipes and a hell of a mess when you screw up!
those hyd servo valves are cute
saw a big old cnc punch press scrapped becasue the servo valve had failed
wasnt that old
they use a servo to bring the punch head down real quick to the metal
then push it through more slowly
keeps the noise down
I really liked the hydraulic pumps that had a small servo on them that adjusted the swash plate... a little tiny signal controlled huge drives
this is electric pump feeding hydraulic motor?
you play with lasers?
yeah, i do ;)
how hard can it be to replace a servo valve, I got a couple in my junk drawer at work that would have done the trick
must be very interesting..... I dont know of anyone around here that has one... the lasers I worked with were about 5mw used for scanning lumber sizes
mine are kind 1 to 2 kw
eric_U: new servo valve was 8K gbp
eric_U: and about the size of two bricks
about 10 years ago they were approx. 2k5 here
I believe it, the small ones are 3k-5k
for the 1 brick size :}
guess they come in various sizes
I actually have one that takes one of the small ones to drive it
it's at least 2 bricks
this one was optimized for high flows
100mm piston, 100mm stroke
200 blows per minute
mayeb not 100m piston, perhaps 80
the one I have was on a machine that was for one shot deals, very fast
but the valve itself had a big cycle rate
I have a machine that runs at 200Hz, but I don't think it would apply what you would call a "blow" at that rate
I still have oil on the ceiling of my lab from when I was learning how to shut down a hydraulic system
if you hit the estop, a big pulse of oil heads back to the tank, blows out your 200psi max pressure oil filter
the hydraulic oil I use nominally looks a fairly golden color at rest
I wonder if there is an e-stop on a tank turret
it has this strange green color when it's spraying everywhere under pressure
on the M1, the turret is moved by a big hydraulic motor
I never really had time to watch and appreciate why that might be, however
maybe, seems like it would be awfully fast oxidation though
index of refraction of the translucent/transparent parts of the hydraulic system?
its the krytonite
golden before it's used, or while in the system?
I always thought it probably was what amounts to foaming
it does get a little darker with use
I know there is no estop on the f-16
there is an off switch though
rookie to pilot "hey, what does this button do?"
there was a guard over the switch that turns the gas off to the engine, but that didn't stop them from flipping the switch
so they wired it down
which makes you wonder what the point of having it is
the story of the switch and valve is so complicated, I know I couldn't tell you all the permutations that I saw correctly
that's OK, I think I might go to bed sometime soon :)
being able to turn off the gas to your airplane's only engine is both a really good idea, and a really bad idea
depending on your situation
like most things, it's not the tool but how you use it
but that's why I'm on the ground where it's safe
SWPadnos: do you know anything about Rabbit ISRs?
too bad; I've just wasted a second day debugging my board
a board with a rabbit?
you can download the assembly source to the G-Rex rabbit code (the GeckoMotion version, not the Mach version)
there should be some good info in there
* robin_sz still has the EMC version of the grex stuff
yep, that's on the gecko group as well
no its not
I think SH even updated it within the last year
I think it is, I can look again
they removed the folder a while back
hmmm. I thought it was in with the firmware
oh, there's the library now, so who knows
not source too i dont think
or the gui
SWPadnos: which source? I just looked at the G100 installation zip. The source directory consists entirely of a header file.
it's called GeckoMotion Source Code.zip
in the g100 and G101 directory
library source (don't know how complete) is in the folder files -> G100 and G101 -> Firmware -> RCM3xxx
on the yahoo groups page?
I don't think that library source will be useful to you for the Rabbit
I think it's the PC side, but it may have the rabbit code too
that's wher eI've learned everything I know about the Rabbits :)
(other than looking at the Dynamic C dics and such)
err - docs
robin_sz, did you catch the info about the G380 drive?
what is the question about rabbit ISR's?
did you have a question about rabbit ISRs?
yeah. why the heck do they cause a "bad packet" error when the ISR contents are too long?
because of communications overruns or underruns probably
prolly because their buffer is too small
and by "too long," I mean anything longer than "int b=0; for (int u=0;u<12;u++) b++;"
you have that code in an ISR?
or, if I'm using a timer to cause the interrupts, I can't set to timer to anything above the main oscillator/2
es, I have that code in an ISR
it's possible that you are causing a memory switch
ell, not verbatim
"memory switch"? like, into xmem or something?
the Rabbit uses at least 2 cycles for every instruction, with the possible exception of NOP (but I think that also takes 2)
they swap devices
so there's no way to interrupt every clock tick
(or every instruction cycle either, for that matter)
that would be an incredibly efficient context switch
SWPadnos: I'm not interrupting every clock tick; I'm setting the timer to count down by one every clock tick (as opposed to every other tick)
goodness knows what kind of mess they have inside that chip
I don't know if the timer just counts on machine cycles vs. clock cycles, or if they prevent you from counting such that the interrupt might happen in the odd phase of a machine cycle
they started out as a board house
yeah, then they bastardized the already-bastardized Z80
woulda been nice if they regularized the opcodes a little
heh - even better - they kept the code binary-compatible, except for the instructions they removed, the ones they added, and the ones they changed :)
since they changed the assy language a little
I didn't know there was any compatibility
I think this might be some buffer problem. If I append to the end of the ISR an instruction to disable any further interrupts, the code runs fine
other than at the assembly level
I think it's supposed to be binary-compatible, but you may be right about it
didn't matter to me, the modules have almost everything I needed except a radio and my outboard circuits
I'm about to jump out a window or buy that Rabbit 3000 book, neither of which I really want to do
you could also look at the dynamic C help/examples
strange that further interrupts is a problem
is the C function declared as an interrupt function?
a RET in there would be a bad thing
vs an IRET or whatever
you probably can't get it to work otherwise
yep. want to see the source? it's impeccably pristine.
heh - not really, just throwing out suggestions based on years of experience with everything but the Rabbit :)
i use rabbit a bit
I was surprised how easily I wrote my program with it
find them mostly easy to use
I had trouble with the radio, not rabbit's fault
the dynamic C compiler / IDE thing is a bit ...
and annoyingly Windows-only and relatively expensive for a uC C package
this might be one of those "chocolate factory" moments
you're going to expand like a giant blueberry?
o, I meant jepler's I love Lucy clip
the analogy he gave when I asked about setting BASE_PERIOD too low
that reminds me - I should go to the store
pick up some ice cream for me
sounds like the interrupt rate was too fast
30 minute delay
ive had dynamic C run under Wine
robin_sz, including the programmer?
* robin_sz scratches head
* SWPadnos bets not
can;t honestly remember
its only serial port chat
that's what I've heard was the main problem (other than the $300 or whatever it costs these days)
most things work ok under wine ith serial ports
persoanlly, I just use it under Xp anyway
that's exactly the opposite of what I've experienced, and what the Wine docs say
robin_sz: DC IDE doesn't work under wine
I just tried to use software I wrote, which uses high-level serial only, and it didn't work at all, so I looked into it recently
not the compiling and loading, anyway
nothing works under wine on this computer
maddash: right, maybe that then
I've gotten WinZip installed onto one PC (under Ubuntu 64, which is cool)
I just swtiched back to XP about 4 months ago
I haven't gotten through the issues of installing the MSI installer, so I can install real applications, like Altium
gave up trying to get the laptop to connect to wireless router under linux
* fenn is watching a chocolate factory documentary
oh, that's trivial these days
its trivial unless you dont have the driver
tecnically, its possible
I installed Ubuntu 7.10 on my new laptop, and the only things that don't work are the fingerprint scanner and the camera
I wasted about 2 weeks on wireless
depends on your wireless interface
but .. wpa_supplicant is SO badly documented, only the author stands a chance
some work out of the box
SWPadnos: which laptop is this?
some require kernel hacking
[03:47:10] <SWPadnos> http://www.mtechlaptops.com/
I tried for a couple of weeks and gave up
SWPadnos: err, I meant, which fingerprint scanner -- there might be a driver for it
robin, which wireless?
it was much harder in Ubuntu 7.04
oh - I don't recall the USB ID, but there isn't really a driver for it - it's just a dumb scanner
no smarts in the chip
i can now manauly configure the interface and get wpa_supplicant to do its thing
but, not automagically yet
I set up a usb wireless on an embedded computer for war driving
we were going to put it on a robot and let it find hot spots for us
I should test some more - I think I'll be carrying this one on my next couple of business trips - the 17" 1920x1200 screen is much nicer than my old one (not to mention the core 2 duo 2.2 GHz vs. P3-1GHz)
robin_sz: actually, wpa_supplicant has a little interface with /etc/networks
and its documented where exactly?
SWPadnos: how much did your laptop cost you?
about $2000 -2200 - I don't remember exactly
I eventually found by trial and error the right combination of options in the wpa-supplicant config, for scanning etc
[03:50:55] <maddash> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-150835.html
to get it to work with my router
what's this wpa-supplicant stuff? i've never had to use that
you have to bow down to the wpa
you use wpa encrytion on your wifi?
fenn: have you used wpa encryption?
no, wtf is the point of that?
so your neighbor can't read your email?
i use ssh for everything
hardly the same ting
how do you protect your local wireless network?
or leave it open?
how do you download porn with ssh?
distance is good
ah well , yes, distance is good
heh .. love it ...
Please have a look
at /etc/network/if-pre-up.d/wpasupplicant to learn about the other ones
SWPadnos: what did you add to your comp that cost you $900 over the low end config
so, even the docs say "read the code"
fenn: silly. ssh is meaningless over an unencrypted/weakly-encrypted netowork.
it used to be that nobody but us had wireless, now there are at least 2 or 3 others
we were all on channel 6
eric_U: re: porn, you can set up a VPN to a server with a wired connection to your access point
I have kismet on this computer, haven't logged any packets from my neighbors yet though
jmkasunich: any threading yet?
yep, got it working last night
just went skiing for the last 4 hours. I am not in shape.
snow, that would be nice
heh - it was a little bit of powder on ice. Fun and fast.
we are going to have to officially raise the freezing temp of water
I hate ice
we take what we get.
our snow melted, so I guess I would too
SWPadnos__ is now known as SWPadnos
I guess I should stop playing with the wireless settings on my router, huh?
sounds like a fun friday evening at home
oh, it's a blast
I always type "/etc/init.d/network stop,", hit enter, and then slap my forehead
I watched a coworker do that
I was halfway through saying "You don't want to do that" when he hit enter
restart works sometimes
not when the machine is across town
same problem here, mobile robot, if the worst happens you have to set up a monitor and keyboard on the robot itself
with restart you just reconnect
well, my router is a linksys, so it's a little different :)
network stop is always a bad thing, however
SWPadno: you haven't updated it to an 'alternative' firmware?
this is very 'art deco' http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v132/rniemi/milwaukeematic-mill.jpg
it looks like a deranged medical robot
well, actually it's a netgear
has a 50s or 60s look about it
I AM TOBOR!
more 70's or 80's
industrial equipment is a little behind
hey you're threading now?
3/8-16 in drill rod even
is it a little easier than before?
you didn't even have compound slide did you?
yikes I bet it didn't want to thread much then
oh great - one more router restart, then maybe one more to turn it off :)
I did _very_ little threading
I could probably count the threading jobs that I have done on my fingers
and I've had the machine 9 years
I did exactly two threads on my sherline before it was cnc
same problems (no compound)
I did a few more than that
the lack of a compound is the least of it
they were both metric, one was left-hand metric
what does the compound do for you?
eric_U: cuts just one side of the thread - really helps
otherwise you have to plunge straight in, cutting the whole V at once
lack of half nut, and inability to reverse the motor without blowing out the start caps, means I did everything by turning the spindle by hand
the chips can't get out because they smash into each other
my learning disabilities made threading difficult
it was quite nice to stand and watch it threading at 580 RPM
get most of the way done, and some distraction, then crash
jmkasunich: does a nut fit?
it took several test threads to get the touch-off right
SWPadnos__ is now known as SWPadnos
threading is my favorite thing I've done in emc2
hope you can get reproducable positioning so you can cut them in one try
if you have that, it's much easier than using a die
well what I have right now isn't reproducable at all
carbide inserted threading tool that my dad gave me
it has a 1" square shank, which is way too big for any toolholder
wow that's big
what was it for?
I set it up on a pair of step blocks and clamped it down as if it was a milling workpiece
he worked as a machinist in a steel mill for 40 years
for him a 12" lathe was small
maybe you can cut your 3/8-16 in one pass + one spring pass with it :-)
I bet the tool could take it, but the machine would probably stall (slip the belts)
it might take more than one spring pass. ;)
exp when the 3/8 shaft starts wrapping up the tool
[04:48:10] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/threading-tool-1833.jpg
sometime you should take a picture of your encoder mounted with that rigup you made
is your encoder run with a timing belt?
that's a clever setup for adjusting the height
hey I got my boring head today (the right one this time)! whee
that will make bearing seats easy (once it's set up)
[04:53:31] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/belt-box-1835.jpg
also spindle drivetrain, and X axis
(Z when lathing)
jmkasunich: what is the encoder actually being driven by?
what is the encoder belt on? it can't be the spindle, it's tiny
its where the stud gear used to be
the spindle is the big pulley above
what is a stud gear?
there is shiftable 1/2 or 1/4 speed gearing inside the headstock, driving the stud gear
did change gears go in here?
then changed gears would go between the stud gear and the leadscrew
oh ok, got it
(so you're cutting any error in those gears into your threads)
wonder why they even put gears on it without a split nut
how much gear lash between the spindle and the stud gear?
the pivot that the encoder bracket is on, and the bolt in the slot, were both used to support a bracket that held the change gears
doesn't matter if it doesn't reverse does it?
what he said
I would wonder about chatter..
there is some, but it doesn't matter
one getting ahead of the other.
but I worry about odd things.
you'd have to have either a very jerky load on the belt (it isn't - the encoder is very smooth) or very abrupt speed changes on the spindle
you'd hear it in the Z motor if it was not smooth
jmkasunich: so you feed straight into the thread if you dont have a compound?
in the long run I intend to belt directly to the spindle
fenn: on a manual lathe, yes
* fenn couldnt remember the past tense of 'feed'
the half-nut always engages in the same spot on the Z axis (relative to the thread)
cradek: I just remembered, I do have a compound for the shoptask
hi guys... I need to know how to do this.... net tool-vel motion.current-vel pyvcp.tool-velocity where motion.current-vel is a parameter (which causes an error)
and I'm pretty sure I used it for threading
X for in/out (per pass, always return to the same value) and compound to advance for each pass
net connects signals and pins.... how do I get the r/o param
LawrenceG: you can't do that
LawrenceG: well you can't hook a param to a net, not much you can do about it
i thought there was some comp that turned a param into a pin
I can watch it.... I want py panel stuff to display it
to use the electrical analogy for HAL comps, pins are the screw terminals on an analog servo amp... params are the trimpots and testpoints - not intended to be connected to anything
LawrenceG: you do know AXIS displays it right?
LawrenceG: it will also display it in the correct units which will be a pain in your panel
(ok just checking)
LawrenceG: other people have had similar issues - wanting to connect a param to something else
it would be neat to make a youtube video of your larger emc machine threading. just my and LH's little ones are all we have on there
and we've discussed changing all params to pins
but haven't made that decision yet
cradek: I'd volunteer, but I don't have a video capable camera
you could fairly easily change it in your copy if you want to build your own emc
i'd like to see some of stustev's machines in action
scanning the comp list.... can comps access param easily?
comps are no different than any other hal component
pins are pins, and params are params
fenn: I promise you will see videos of the G&L if I have to go take them myself
cradek: what G&L?
just need a param in and pin out?
jmkasunich: (2.5MB) http://www.mpm1.com:8080/machines/GandL/S1030182.JPG
yeah that one
LawrenceG: you'd need to do much crufty hacking to build a component that accessed another components parameter
better to hack the original component and change its param to a pin
crufty .. crusty.. it is Friday night
thanks for the help... at least I havent lost too many brain cells over it
grep in emc/motion/motion.c for "current-vel"
you'll find a call to hal_pin_new
you need to change that to hal_param_new
oops, vice versa
you also need to change the actual storage from a value, to a pointer to a value
and change all references to it to pointer references
the G&L link timed out
where is mem1.com?
worked for me when I tried again just now
loaded ok on retry
I think their dns has bogons
horizontal boring mill, eh?
where is that?
[05:11:03] <cradek> http://www.mpm1.com:8080/machines/viper-BCbridge/S1030246.JPG
is that stuart's shop?
viper is 5 axis isn't it?
that's the one he's built the matching simulation for
thats a beast
I don't know if it's the next project or not, but it sounds like it's on the list
viper seems like an odd name for a machine tool
when the head starts turning around and tilting up and down, I supposed with some imagination it could look like a snake
I take it the head rotates around the vertical axis, but It's hard to see from here
yes it does
it's funny, I'm looking at that thing, thinking about what I could do with it, and I've reached the conclusion it's not quite big enough
eric_U: Well, you COULD make a larger one using MDF, roller skating bearings, and acme rod
yes, I was thinking that the way covers on the gantry could be useful for an entire machine
eric_U: Oh, and a 357 from a 67 ford pickup for the spindle =)
whats the resolution on that thing anyway?
higher than necessary, i bet
probably .0001 and it can actually cut to .0005 - .001
SWPadnos__ is now known as SWPadnos
SWPadnos__ is now known as SWPadnos
alex_joni: could you tell my what part of EMC you wrote ?
might quiet today
your responses sound like a cowboy - you don't look like one
heh - it's funny. I was just thinking about the interview with Peter Fonda yesterday, talking about "3:10 to Yuma"
and other cowboy things (I think they said his father was John Wayne :) )
did I see where you got more monitors?
err - I don't understand the question
I had a monitor die recently
not as it probation - as in computers - I saw some conversation about purchasing a new monitor
oh - I have a new laptop (in the last couple of months anyway), but no new monitors
there was a short discussion about the higher resolution and size of the new one (17" 1920x1200)
maybe that's what it was - you got a 17 inch wides creen laptop
will linux drive it?
yep - everything but the fingerprint scanner and camera
I didn't even try installing Windows - went straight for Gutsy beta
very good - do you have prospects to drive the scanner and camera?
yes, there are projects for both, I just haven't bothered with them
you probably don't require the scanner - the camera would be nice
I fiddled around with wi-fi a bit and the driver works (out of the box), but I wasn't able to connect to my router
I \haven't tried it with my Windows laptop yet
you said you didn't even try to install Windows. did you purchase it without an operating system?
oh, the camera is one of those webcam things just above the LCD - it's not useful for anything other than a webcam/conference cam
yes, I got it without an OS
[16:00:40] <SWPadnos> http://www.mtechlaptops.com
I have a webcam on top of my monitor. I thought it would be good to use. I haven't done any web conferencing. Doesn't seem to be much need.
nice looking machine
yep - I got the M570 - a good one, though a little heavy
bbl - I am installing the software on the G&L. It is running the apt-get build-dep emc2 atm.
heh - enjoy
and take pictures ;)
well, not of the software isntall, we've seen that
SWPadnos, weve seen the machine http://www.mpm1.com:8080/machines/GandL
yeah - more pictures :)
yup when it eats metal!
SWPadnos: *sigh* "Can't intialize, make sure directX6.0 ot higher is installed" Version: 9.0c
SWPadnos: G43 works as a spindle offset when using a lathe tool table... COOL
JymmmEMC, hmmm. bummer.
don't let a lack of tools prevent you from getting the diagrams done - that's not a real problem
you can use paper just as well as a PC
SWPadnos: Trying a reinstall
BigJohnT, cool! thank cradek for that, he did it :)
SWPadnos: Before you suggested that proggy, that was my intensions.
JymmmEMC, OK, but remember - it's not a real problem. you should see all the paper drawings I have for my phase converter :)
SWPadnos: I have a scanner =)
cradek: G43 works! THANKS
don't blame it on me ;)
SWPadnos: why not?
because I'll have to kick your ass when I get there if you do! :)
and you won't be invited to Palace BBQ
SWPadnos: Hey, you didn't say you were bringing Mom along with ya ;)
let alone House of Prime Rib
I'll bring you an EMC2 liveCD even - I'm so nice
gotta run though - it's breakfast time
one more thing - did you take a look at kivio?
it's like the pre-microsoft visio
at least things maintain connections when you move them around - that's the main advantage of a computer-based wiring program
m-tech has a pretty funny website
SWPadnos: is kivio easier to use than the openoffice draw
I have no idea, I just remembered that it exists :)
never used it (or visio, since version 1 or 2)
what do you use for electrical drawings?
but I haven't found anything (including Altium) that I really like for cabinet wiring diagrams
BigJohnT: if you have to ask how much Altium costs, you can't afford it
I'll have to mention that to them afaon
this is a funny picture: http://www.mpm1.com:8080/machines/viper-BCbridge/S1030247.JPG
I use Mirado Warrior, very affordable and flexible
5000 pound head, 50000 pound machine, and it looks like it has a 1/4" endmill in it
kinda like SolidWorks If you have to ask the price you can't afford it
jmkasunich, yeah - I was that one - kind of an undersized tool there, huh? :)
no, Altium is 2x the cost of SW
looks like the large table size is useful for that part though
what's cool is that there's a plugin for Altium and SolidWorks that allows a SW user to move parts around and have the changes get pushed back into Altium
Altium uses full IGES models for all parts, and can export a real CAD model of a board
actually, the latest version is basically a 3D design program - the PCB is edited in 3D
my business partner does all the wiring and draws it on paper before I put it into ADAC...
JymmmEMC: intuitive user interface, and using it is very fast
no undo function though
I'm actually serious, software gets in the way of a lot of things
cradek: but but but wheres the tech support number?
fenn: yes there is, it's included
heh - ain't that the truth
that's what led my wife to put a note on the PageMaker box: "never ever ever ever use pagemaker!"
cradek: G43 works for the multi spindle, Thanks
no, she loves Corel
though we stopped at version 9 pro
SWPadnos: That what I mean, literal substititue pgmaker for Corel
ok, now it's really time to go eat. bbl
time for a nap
except it doesn't have as good support for multiple pages
and text flow and stuff
SWPadnos: Corel 12 & 13 do
Cool! Just heard my 20" crt arc and then the screen went black for 2s
Two please... http://gizmodo.com/341413/alienware-curved-monitor-looks-like-its-from-another-planet
I don't want two, but a little taller might be nice
I figured 180 view might be nice
you need three so there is no seam in the middle
Well, If I could figure out how to get in, go for 260 deg view
that's cool, but it's heeeuuuuuuuge
I wanted to buy one of those immersion monitors a few years back
you sit inside the monitor
right, but how do you get in the middle of the circle?
there is a hole in the back
Nah, were thinking an elevator of some sort.
i was talking about the ones that are available, but that's a good idea
like the dome of silence from...
or for personal size, it could be like a clamshell
I'd be too chicken to try and move it/them once setup
i liked the "VR cave" idea - get some projectors and make a box out of translucent sheet
then you project a mirror image onto the sheet
how many irc chatrooms do you want to see at once!!
anyway to answer you ##electronics question kicad (needs work) and geda
let me look at geda
or maybe not (it's offline)
you can still apt-get it
I wasnt impressed with geda whn I tried a few years ago
pcb is ok
it's "unixy" though
kicad is coming on but needs a kick in the bits
Dia would work, but no symbols for it.
and wtf did they change the name from xpcb to pcb?
Ok 24V control voltage, wonder if this would be "ok" for that... http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102703&cp=2032058.2032230.2032277&pg=1&parentPage=family
I just feel "icky" on using 24V - 12 sure, just 24 not used to it.
fenn when i first looked they had their own pcb prog but now its from another project
JymmmEMC: if it makes you feel less icky, 24V is the gold standard for industrial work - no industrial stuff I've ever seen uses 12V for I/O
that's gonna give you 33v
(I've been working with industrial stuff for 20+ years)
you can get 12v, but it's hard to find and more expensive
jmkasunich: I understand that is the case, just not accustom to it is all. I have lots and lots of parts for everything else BUT 24V =)
when you're buying good nos surplus, the 24v stuff is all you'll find
i wonder why computers dont use 24V
instead of 12
they don't use 12 any more either
for drives and stuff
fenn: because computers aren't industrial
I'm going to be buying from these guys http://search.stores.ebay.com/Electrical-Replacement-Parts_LED_W0QQfcdZ2QQfciZ10QQfclZ3QQfrtsZ30QQfsnZElectricalQ20ReplacementQ20PartsQQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsaselZ5125342QQsofpZ0
but they used to be
fenn: most computer 12V stuff never leaves the cabinet the computer is in
24V provides more noise immunity
jmkasunich: primarily AC ?
current is lower for given power
um.. what i mean, is, there was already all this 24V stuff around before computers came on the scene, so why did they go and reinvent the wheel?
24V is also high enough to punch through oxide layers on contacts in switches and relays, avoiding the need for gold
they used what they wanted to use probably
computers and industry have been two different worlds for a very long time
different needs, different priorities
24V is much more demanding for ICs for example
computers have been cost-sensitive for the last 30 years
the first thing that happens when a 24V I/O signal arrives in a PLC is that it is optocoupled and converted to 5V or less - all internal stuff is low voltage
the insides of a PLC are a computer - the I/O is industrial
yeah but most IC's cant handle 12V either
and most stuff in a PC doesn't run on 12V
which has become even more true over time
now they use a lot of 12v for power supplies on-board
right, and the only stuff that uses 12V is high power, which is where you'd like to keep the current down
which is promptly stepped down to 3.3, 2.5, 2.0, or 1.5V
jmkasunich: we have been known to use a larger tool once in a while
the sub-5V stuff came well after the 12V standard was formed
I figured you would
sometimes quite a bit larger - it does look like overkill
it was just amusing to see that massive cube of metal on the end of a huge Z axis, with that comparatively tiny tool
if the Z brake ever failed, the tool wouldn't even slow it down a tiny bit
or the work
jmkasunich: Which is the norm 24V AC or DC ?
AC I/O is usually 120V
you want an 18V transformer
or just get a 24V power supply
one i found I could push up to 29 v to drive my steppers
That the problem... 24VDC PS are not readily available. I'd like to use "something" that if it ever went out, I could find a replacement locally and not have to order it.
I finally figured out why those din terminal blocks were so cheap, seller had zero feedback
did you get scammed?
no, but I was surprised I got them so cheap
eric_U: are they any good?
auction closed after business hours on 9th, got them from California to Pennsylvania today
brand new, $.25 each shipped, normally $2.50 each plus shipping
these look to be a very good deal if you need low power relays: http://cgi.ebay.com/BOX-OF-TEN-PHOENIX-CONTACT-PLC-OSP-24DC-24DC-2-RELAYS_W0QQitemZ110213613182QQihZ001QQcategoryZ42897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
is there anybody who is using emc to control the injection molding machine?
does an injection molding machine use g code?
it's the language of cnc
new-gavan: emc can be used for that sort of thing, but nobody has done it yet as far as i know
i am using the rtai to control it
but now i think emc can make it easier
[18:40:44] <fenn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RH_H7jgQQY
i figure that's about the same as what you'll be doing
someone made a cutter/bender also using emc
* skunkworks can't find the video at the moment
[18:46:37] <fenn> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Videos
it's "acemi's wire forming machine"
oh, hello acemi :)
[19:11:01] <skunkworks> http://cgi.ebay.com/5-Cincinnatti-Horizontal-Mill_W0QQitemZ250205063202QQihZ015QQcategoryZ12584QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
now that is a big mill
I hope that thing has an assist on the knee
the rigging will make buying that uneconomic
we could roll it home on water pipe...
penn state had a K&T about that size
we have a brown and sharp about 75% that size
Fucking bathroom sink drain has been leaking for a few days...
The cheapass landlord had previosuly fixed it (before we moved in) TWICE it appears... once with DUCT TAPE, then another layer on top of that with CLOTH TAPE!!!
a few months ago, I had to fix the overflow drain on the bowl, it had rusted thru... easy enough fix though.... shit loads of silicon.
Whats the typical draw of the coil on a 24V contactor?
a small one or a large one
just a sec...
they should say
they should, but don't
JymmmEMC: measure the ohm..
resistance of the coil..
If I had it in my hand I could.
well, that's the only way you'll know..
less then a amp ;)
google for figures..
[19:47:40] <anonimasu> http://www.surplussales.com/Relays/hermetic.html
[19:48:56] <JymmmEMC> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150177948234&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=005
throw the numbers at google..(pn's..)
found some solar solar shingles for 500 bucks an AMP @ 14.7V
[19:52:04] <dmess> http://kingsolar.com/catalog/mfg/powerfilm/pt15300.html
275 ohms @ 120VAC = .436
That's Nominal DC resistance - ohms
[19:52:55] <JymmmEMC> http://www.pbcsupply.com/specification.aspx?PartImage=CN-PBC402-120V.jpg&spec=cn-pbc_2p
JymmmEMC: but that's not coil resistance
that's all I got.
JymmmEMC: says 17ohms on your ebay page.. so 1.4A
or did I miss it?
fenn: are you sure that's coil resistance?
"nominal DC resistance"
dunno what else it would be
it goes up proportionally with coil voltage
however it does say "120V COIL"
so i would suggest not buying that one
1 contact 24v coil 17 ohms 2 contact 13 ohms greedy little bugger
no shit, huh.
screws my idea of using a 3A supply
methinks less copper more amps cheap shit
there are better contactors.
the coil in the pic is small for the job
but, if you are fuzzy about $ you wont get that kind
then you pay the $ to feed electricity to the coil
Now I'm leary about http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-NIB-PLUG-IN-RELAY-11PIN-3POLE-24V-DC-COIL_W0QQitemZ150202646903QQihZ005QQcategoryZ78205QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQtrksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem
magic words are ampere turns JymmmEMC
well, as you have no spec's I'd advice against them
[20:01:13] <JymmmEMC> http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-NIB-PLUG-IN-RELAY-11PIN-3POLE-24V-DC-COIL_W0QQitemZ150202646903QQihZ005QQcategoryZ78205QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQtrksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem
[20:01:56] <JymmmEMC> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150182165600&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=005
ask the seller for a part number
They really are http://www.pioneerbreaker.com/
"our price (members only)"?
wtf is wrong with the world
[20:04:59] <JymmmEMC> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150187185551&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=005
i guess i should upgrade more often - 867MB to download
I wonder if these are any good... http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-22MM-START-STOP-PUSHBUTTON-AC-DC-LED-PILOT-LIGHT_W0QQitemZ150147980552QQihZ005QQcategoryZ42898QQcmdZViewItem
It's not THAT bad
My bet is that that will havea very cheesy feel to it
Yeah, that's what I was thinking, or clumbsy to use
if you think about it, that start/stop switch uses a 22mm hole, which has the bulb and two actuator shafts in it
they can't be all that robust
I'll just go for these instead... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150137819603&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=005
Ok, US Quarter diameter is 24.26mm - good ref
get this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/41-Allen-Bradley-800T-Push-Buttons-Caps_W0QQitemZ180203841719QQihZ008QQcategoryZ58166QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I got an assortment similar to that, and I haven't needed any buttons since :)
you choose the voltage by choosing different bulbs, usually
hey Jim... looks like that assortment has some of the mushroom head buttons like I used
top right of pix
I only see one mushroom head in that lot, but there are others (lots of 10 or so for $20) that have more
I recommend NOS from reputable companies like SWP posted
[20:15:00] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/Allen-Bradley-800T-FXP16-A1-Push-Buttons-Lot-Of-5_W0QQitemZ280191118970QQihZ018QQcategoryZ42898QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
or even used old stock - they don't break often, and when they do, there are replacement parts
also, you can add contacts to the industrial switches like these
of course, the replacement parts will cost an arm and leg
not if you get them from another auction ;)
or rob peter to fix paul, as it were
you are right, used is fine
hmmm. I better go "help" my wife - I'm not sure what she's doing out there in the garage ...
danger, wife cleaning garage
its ALL in a pile by now... SHE just wants to see you cry.... for not helping
LawrenceG: which url?
Somewhere around here I have a opto-22 SSR which can't be identified. I know it's low votlage on the control side, not sure what it is on the load side though
JymmmEMC: ?? sorry not sure what your question is
JymmmEMC: what are all these relays and buttons and stuff for>
fenn: new controller box
LawrenceG: you had mentioned something about the estop button you used, but I had posted afew different url's so I wasn't sure which one you were reffering to.
JymmmEMC: the last one posted by swpadnos. top row, second from the right.
9 people bidding on that
jtr ...thanks I had already cleared my history window
LawrenceG: you clear your history within minutes?!
Isn't that kinda the purpose of having a history in a browser?
heh - I use the history a lot.. hmmm - I think that was a page I looked at 5 weeks ago...
started with a w...
skunkworks: are you the one with the acupin linear encoder?
LawrenceG: this? http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/accupins.JPG
after we the the machine back up with encoders on the servos.. I want to play with using one of the resovler-> encoder chips..
skunkworks: yea thats the one.... is there a picture of the read head?
I don't think I have one.
I have some of the circuit diagrams though I think... at the shop
I have heard of similar encoders made from a tube of ball bearings
heh - I suppose.
It would be interesting to try building a liear encoder.... ball bearings are cheap and accurate sizing
worked great - how ever ge did it - they divided each .1" diam pin into .0001
picking position from the balls is the hard part
basically a resolver interface.... 2 sine waves
Thats what I get from the diagrams from the K&T
I guess the head is 3 coils... one exciting the read head and 2 reading the field back from the balls
the stacked these from end to end - I think they are around 10 inches long. getting the 38X36X24 travel
I should scan in the diagrams
please do.... I am thinking one may be able to use a sound card for reading the sensor signals
the chips now are under 30 dollars now I think..
having one linear scale would be a great help in mapping leadscrew erros
I even think you get an index also.
(I would have to look
sorry jmk... I am too lazy to stack gauge blocks.... what a chore
it probably been a few years.
LawrenceG: it is very time consuming
I wrote a g-code program that would move the axis to make a measurement, pause, then approach from the other direction, pause, then advance to the next measurement
no kidding..... I dont have any gauge blocks, which makes it even harder
it would also prompt when the block stack needed to be changed, and pull away to allow for the swap
back in the spring I picked up a set of length measuring tools as were used on the old pratt and whitney jig borers
2 each rods 1", 2", 3", and 6", plus 2 mic heads with a 1" range
cool - we have one or two sets like that. starett
they're designed to sit in a v-groove alongside the table, but also rest nicely in the top of one of my t-slots
they are nice.
mine are lufkin
I think I paid $50 for the set
oh, and there is one 10" rod too
I think one of the sets father bought new.. not cheap.. The other I think maybe we got from an uncle
I got mine from HGR of course
measuring tools are nice, but Im trashing one for my cnc!
[22:25:49] <LawrenceG> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LVDT.png
use a stack of ball bearings in the center
archivist: digital micrometer ? ;)
skunkworks, no a toolsetting shadograph, its been rusting for years but has a couple of nice slides on it and a base
basically you get an absolute position withing 1 ball spacing, added to the multiple ball spacings kept track of in software
hey everyone whats up
if anyone is an ebay feend keep on the lookout for a cheap!!!!! vfd or phase converter for a 1/6th hp coolant pump.
cast iron is SO nice
sexy stuff to machine
what other metal could you drill a 3/16" hole 2.3" deep without even stopping to clear chips, and then follow it with 13/32 same depth
cuts like buttah
sum sexy cast www.archivist.info/pendulum/
how'd you get that finish?
just went up the grades of wet and dry
oh, the first pic is a lie then - it almost looks like you got that right off the lathe
acually gets polished on the lathe
That's cast iron??? http://www.archivist.info/pendulum/P9072701.JPG
archivist: what are you protecting it with?
first pic shows standard cast finish as well
one fingerprint and it's all over.
JymmmEMC, gone to customer now up to him, told him about finger marks
archivist: ah, ok. PU to the rescue!
besides he can probably polish it back up
maybe, but never quite the same
always those tiny spots that you can never get ot
lewin1 is now known as lewing_
jmkasunich, btw its hollow and the drilling was hard work!
drilled, not bored?
(obviously drilled first)
all drilled with various assorted bodged oddities
eg milling cutter on a shaft
and the job was too big for that lathe
I would think once you get beyond a certain size boring is easier than drilling
200lbs of salt done and still needs more
salt for what? margaritas?
jmkasunich: weed killer
jmkasunich, couldnt take the saddle drill depth past the job
in fact only an inch or two
ah, but the tailstock could go far enough
one of the really annoying things about the shoptask is the 1.5" tailstock travel
and then I just used it for pressure
jmkasunich: The San Mateo Water Distruct uses it for weed control around all the water ponds. Non-toxic, and not too worried if we get some on our shoes and track it in the house (safe for the birds).
hey just a question when setting up hal what are u actualy setting up?
what's this /etc/security/limits.conf: * hard memlock 20480 #EMC2
maybe something involved with ensuring that RT code doesn't get swapped out?
Is there any "standard" color coding for indicator lamps?
red bad, green good, amber hmm think about it
I can get " WHT, YEL, BLU, GRN, RED
some folks do green = motor running, red = stopped
others flip it, since running is likely to be the dangerous state, so that is red - stopped is safe thus green
On the spindle/dustVac, I was thinking GRN for ON, and RED for AUTO, nothing for OFF
IOW, there is no real standard - it depends on the industry you are in, etc
auto = turned on by computer control?
that seems reasonable
only problem is that a burned out indicator will seem to indicate the safe state, when it isn't really safe
if the indicators are LEDs, the risk of burnout is very very low
before you go
JymmmEMC, decide what indicators you need and how they'll be wired first, then pick colors!
SWPadnos: I am. IF I decide on three indicators ON/READY/AUTO then three, if just two AUTO/ON then it'll be different colors.
unless you've already done that :)
for each "thing", I'd suggest an indicator that shows that it could be powered, and one that shows that the system thinks it's powered
get one of each, fit all, make panel pretty
To decided either way, I need to figure out how to wire it all up
you can also optionally add an indicator that shows that it's in auto mode
no, you should decide what you want first - adding lights is a simple matter of paralleling indicators with "active" signals
unless you want to use indicators in series with relay coils or that kind of thing (which I think isn't recommended, but it does make the circuit not work if the buld is bad)
SWPadnos: As jmkasunich suggested, an burned out bulb is a bad thing. I never concidered that before, now I have to incorp that into the design to get the right controls.
SWPadnos: series?! EW yuck
the military (and some industrial controls) often use an indicator test button, which lights up all the indicators
that way you can see which ones are bad at any time
but it requires you to separate the indicator from the controlled circuit, or have SPDT-type switches on every bulb (or some other annoyingly complex scheme)
SWPadnos: Master on = lamp test mode. hit ON button, goes into rgular mode?
I don't think so - I'm not sure how to do that
consider this: for each lamp, you have three options on how to wire it ro the thing it's supposed to be indicating:
but I'm not sure in the "READY" lamp stuff either.
1) parallel - connect a light across a relay coil, and the light tells you when the coil is energized
2) series, same deal, except that a bad light bulb will prevent the coil from operating
wouldn't series muck up the power draw on the bulb any?
3) separate contacts - the indicator will tell you when something *thinks* that the coil should be on, but unless you're using separate contacts of a contactor, it won't be as reliable an indicator
well, for an inductive load it could be a problem with inrush, but I'm talking on the control side
so you use a 12V coil and a 12V bulb with a 24V supply
ok, that's cool for a 24V system
you might want a 24V regulator though
er wot 12v coil and 12v bulb may not work they need to be the same wattage / resistance to work
archivist: in series
no - he's right - they would be passing the same current, so they need to have the same current rating
ok, so parallel to the ciol
seems a lil better
yep - especially if you're planning on using LED bulbs, you shouldn't bother with bulb testing
or indicator failure
it'll be pretty obvious when a bulb is burnt out
ok, so off/ready/on/auto are the potential states.
off = no lamps lit ;)
at least that's my suggestion
Yeah, though I might add a white to indicator power is in the box.
yes, that would be "ready" I think
I could make that one blue - I like blue =)
blue is good