#emc | Logs for 2008-01-11

[11:59:58] <micges> hello
[12:02:04] <alex_joni> hi
[12:47:43] <BigJohnT> anyone take a look at why M66 fails to respond to hardware inputs?
[12:48:00] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: all I can say is that it works for me..
[12:48:13] <alex_joni> are the inputs long enough?
[12:50:51] <BigJohnT> hmm, how long do they need to be?
[12:51:36] <BigJohnT> the input is on for 10 seconds
[12:51:50] <BigJohnT> so I must have something wrong
[12:52:40] <BigJohnT> do you have a snippet of code where it is used for an example?
[12:55:54] <alex_joni> hmm.. not really
[12:55:59] <alex_joni> but it should be something like:
[12:56:09] <alex_joni> M66 P00
[12:56:32] <BigJohnT> I had M66 P0
[12:56:45] <BigJohnT> perhaps that is the issue
[12:57:01] <alex_joni> G0x[#5399]
[12:57:07] <alex_joni> P0 should be fine too
[12:57:30] <alex_joni> bbl
[12:57:34] <BigJohnT> ok
[12:57:36] <BigJohnT> thanks
[13:00:39] <JymmmEMC> ug
[13:01:28] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: ug
[13:31:06] <stustev> good morning all
[13:31:30] <stustev> finally! I am loading software on the G&L.
[13:32:19] <stustev> I think all peripheral systems will be completed today.
[13:32:42] <stustev> There are some new pictures on www.mpm1.com:8080. take a look
[13:34:07] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: ug?
[13:34:14] <alex_joni> stustev: cool
[13:34:54] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: me brain == jello (been up all night)
[13:52:49] <alex_joni> stustev: is that you in the last pic?
[13:53:01] <alex_joni> stustev: gonna run emc2 on it? looks quite nice :)
[13:54:13] <alex_joni> stustev: what is 'W' on that machine?
[13:56:33] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: sorry to hear that
[13:58:45] <stustev> Yes, it will be running EMC2. The W axis is the table movement in the Z axis. The machine has 4 axes - all linear. XW on the table. Y is the column up and down. Z is the quill.
[13:59:01] <stustev> yes that is me in the last pic
[13:59:30] <fenn> stustev: hi. do you think you could run 'convert' on those images to make them a little smaller?
[14:00:36] <stustev> fenn: sure - is convert a command line application?
[14:00:47] <fenn> for i in `ls` do; convert $i -geometry 1024x768 small_$i; done
[14:01:07] <fenn> it's the command to use the imagemagick package
[14:01:41] <stustev> I will do it
[14:02:48] <fenn> maybe -sample will look better than -geometry
[14:04:52] <fenn> i wonder if art will make mach open source
[14:07:05] <alex_joni> fenn: I doubt that
[14:07:12] <skunkworks_> no
[14:07:24] <skunkworks_> someone else is taking over for him
[14:07:25] <fenn> does he have a cadre of loyalists to take up the mantle?
[14:07:30] <jepler> what's to be gained from that -- a linux port?
[14:07:47] <fenn> dunno.. what's to be gained from keeping it secret?
[14:07:49] <alex_joni> fenn: he does.. he set up a company, and employed 2-3 guys
[14:07:54] <alex_joni> they will be taking over
[14:08:07] <alex_joni> fenn: he keep selling it?
[14:08:31] <fenn> er.. i guess i misunderstood the meaning of 'retired'
[14:08:35] <skunkworks_> stustev: how long does it take you to tune a axis? and what is your favorite way of doing it?
[14:08:57] <alex_joni> fenn: he stops developing it.. but I think that's about it
[14:14:34] <skunkworks_> logger_emc: bookmark
[14:14:34] <skunkworks_> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-01-11.txt
[14:15:18] <stustev> I have only tuned the 3 axes on one machine with EMC2. It didn't take very long. Chris Radek was here when we tuned the axes the final time. It was surprising how quick they tuned. We added P until the axis started to oscillate, backed P off a little bit, added some D until the halscope showed the improvement was slowing then added some I. This was very easy and quick and very accurate. Chris may remember is a little differently but this is what
[14:15:58] <skunkworks_> Neat - thanks
[14:16:08] <alex_joni> stustev: you got cut off at "differently but this is what
[14:41:24] <stustev> Chris may remember this a little differently but this is what I remember. The G&L will be our second machine with EMC2
[14:43:08] <alex_joni> stustev: great stuff :)
[14:43:19] <alex_joni> are these your machines? or do they go out to customers?
[14:43:33] <alex_joni> (does chris get one? :P)
[14:45:33] <archivist> * archivist finally finds the pic with the cast iron, a serious lump!
[14:45:45] <alex_joni> how serious?
[14:46:14] <archivist> the G & L
[14:46:42] <archivist> http://www.mpm1.com:8080/machines/GandL/S1030182.JPG
[14:47:44] <archivist> looks nice
[14:47:51] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ loves those tumbstones.
[14:48:57] <skunkworks_> tombstones
[14:54:14] <cradek> stustev: it looks great. has it moved yet?
[15:01:47] <stustev> hasn't moved yet
[15:01:58] <stustev> the pictures on the website are smaller now
[15:05:04] <alex_joni> stustev: are these your machines? or do they go out to customers?
[15:06:20] <stustev> these are our machines - the hitachi may be for sale when we get it up
[15:07:55] <cradek> the hitachi looks like a neat little machine
[15:08:13] <alex_joni> stustev: how long did the retrofit take for the G&L?
[15:09:14] <cradek> does/will it have a pendant? I ask because I don't see a jogwheel on the control head
[15:10:40] <stustev> months and months and months - the actual work I will know later - if we devoted the time to it you are looking at about a week's work for two people
[15:11:02] <stustev> it will have a jog wheel on a cord/tether
[15:23:06] <stustev> cradek: the center knob of the three black knobs under the display is a jog wheel, the left knob is feed override, the right knob is spindle override
[15:23:33] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is happy someone actually uses spindle-override
[15:37:18] <gezar> spindle override rocks, its the tool saver
[15:50:06] <cradek> stustev: aha, I couldn't read the labels in the photo
[15:50:29] <cradek> alex_joni: I use spindle override on the lathe
[15:50:52] <cradek> hmm, I wonder how it works with CSS
[16:17:03] <SWPadnos> BigJohnT, cradek had the right answer for you
[16:17:11] <SWPadnos> (on the tool offset question anyway)
[16:25:04] <skunkworks_> dave! how is the tuning going?
[16:25:20] <daveengvall__> skunkworks ... slow
[16:25:43] <daveengvall__> I need to get the system set up on a real machine
[16:26:18] <daveengvall__> I think I can get a step response off halscope and a battery box.
[16:26:26] <skunkworks_> same here..
[16:26:31] <iso> PowerPath on Oracle Unbreakable Linux "Starting PowerPath: This package requires RedHat RHEL5. failed"
[16:26:33] <daveengvall__> but then I need to know how to use the information I get
[16:30:10] <BigJohnT> SWPadnos: I was away from my computer
[16:31:04] <SWPadnos> and sadly, the logger was gone when he explained it to me :)
[16:31:17] <SWPadnos> but basically you need to use G43 instead of G41/G42
[16:31:49] <SWPadnos> G43 is "tool length offset", which with a lathe-type tool table offsets in X and Z, rather than just Z
[16:31:50] <BigJohnT> Looking
[16:31:58] <BigJohnT> ok
[16:32:31] <BigJohnT> < making notes to try when I get back to my emc computer
[16:32:36] <SWPadnos> ok
[16:34:07] <BigJohnT> I did figure out the G92 Coord Sys Offsets after I logged off
[16:34:36] <BigJohnT> I was missing the point that it makes the "current" point to the coord set...
[16:34:52] <SWPadnos> ah - good that you figured it out
[16:37:59] <BigJohnT> The G43 makes sense that it would offset in the X as well as the Z, I'll give that a try when I get home
[16:38:11] <BigJohnT> Thanks for remembering
[16:38:15] <SWPadnos> sure
[16:40:00] <daveengvall__> Hi SWP
[16:40:06] <SWPadnos> hi Dave
[16:40:16] <daveengvall__> I see you survived the trip to Costco
[16:40:30] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:40:43] <SWPadnos> I've got the coupons lined up for the next trip :)
[16:41:07] <daveengvall__> So assuming I can get a step response off my axis how do I get from there to PID?
[16:41:32] <SWPadnos> first, use HAL to generate the step, don't just hook the motor to a DC supply :)
[16:42:03] <SWPadnos> also, the step response thing is just one way of doing it
[16:42:16] <SWPadnos> have you read the Gecko G320/G340 manual?
[16:42:17] <daveengvall__> OK, slow square wave so we get full response
[16:42:33] <daveengvall__> Not really but I have one
[16:42:59] <SWPadnos> ok, take a look at the scope traces in that manual, they show a good representation of underdamped and overdamped response
[16:44:36] <daveengvall__> I was hoping for something that takes less art and is more quantitative
[16:44:50] <SWPadnos> incidentally, this is the "scientific" method of tuning, it may not be the most practical :)
[16:44:53] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:45:07] <SWPadnos> then use Ziegler-Nichols
[16:45:35] <daveengvall__> I've usually done just the first part of ZN
[16:45:54] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Tuning_EMC2/HAL_PID_Loops
[16:46:04] <daveengvall__> take P to osc then P = 0.6*osc value
[16:46:22] <SWPadnos> yep, then use the osc. period to calculate I and soemtimes D
[16:46:51] <daveengvall__> You mean in 60+ years we don't have anything better?
[16:47:00] <SWPadnos> heh - dunno, I'm not that old ;)
[16:47:24] <cradek> ZN was conceived for tuning hydraulic actuators - I think it is definitely better now
[16:47:27] <daveengvall__> good one!
[16:47:53] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I could have sworn there was another wiki page with PID tuning info, but I can't find it
[16:48:10] <daveengvall__> the wiki stuff is good as far as it goes but expanding it could be most useful
[16:48:24] <SWPadnos> your mission, should you choose to accept it ...
[16:48:40] <daveengvall__> a bit more nuts and bolts on the hal config would help
[16:48:57] <daveengvall__> conceptually I kinda know what needs to be done but ....
[16:49:19] <SWPadnos> oh right, the "multiple ways to do it" and "more steps to follow" sections could use a little more meat
[16:49:25] <cradek> I don't think it's necessary to tune a step response
[16:49:36] <cradek> I use small incremental moves which are a lot like steps, but you can easily program them in gcode
[16:50:08] <SWPadnos> yep - that's probably more practical, since EMC won't output real steps - only small acceleration-limited ones
[16:50:23] <cradek> I like to make a long program with small rapids back and forth with delays between
[16:50:27] <SWPadnos> do you use an insanely high accel at first, to get it close?
[16:50:39] <daveengvall__> step response should give you a lot of information in one shot
[16:50:42] <cradek> then you can set up the scope trigger so it constantly shows the latest moves
[16:51:10] <daveengvall__> I used to have the paper by the NIST intern but it needed a bit more fleshing out also
[16:51:49] <daveengvall__> driving with a sine wave is a lot easier on the mechanics
[16:52:27] <daveengvall__> One should be able to do a Bode plot ... that just gives you freq response ... not values for PID
[16:53:04] <SWPadnos> but you need to sweep the sine wave, and measure amplitude over the full range
[16:53:12] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure that's really useful for PID tuning
[16:53:24] <SWPadnos> and it would take a long long time to get a plot
[16:53:58] <daveengvall__> Not really ... just enough cycles at each freq to equilibrate
[16:54:29] <SWPadnos> well, it can take seconds for RF plots, with much lower frequencies involved, it should take much longer to get the data
[16:54:44] <daveengvall__> OK
[16:55:01] <daveengvall__> It may depend on how accurate you need the data
[16:55:26] <SWPadnos> sure, plus you don't need a 6-decade frequency sweep
[16:56:21] <daveengvall__> 0.1 to 20 or 40 Hz should give you slope
[16:56:43] <SWPadnos> 60 Hz+, in case there are line-related issues
[16:56:51] <SWPadnos> (not that there should be with a DC system, but still)
[16:57:19] <daveengvall__> Yeah .. Jon says his system has a resonance at about 250 Hz
[16:57:19] <SWPadnos> actually, since the control bandwidth is 500 Hz (based on a 1KHz servo cycle), you should go to 500 Hz
[16:58:03] <SWPadnos> that would be 1/2 of the control bandwidth, which could be explained by the discrete-time nature of the system coupled with feedback lag
[16:58:23] <daveengvall__> response should get pretty bad at high freqs ...
[16:58:29] <daveengvall__> Nyquist again?
[17:00:13] <SWPadnos> yep
[17:00:21] <SWPadnos> or I should say "possibly" :)
[17:00:50] <SWPadnos> the system runs at 1000 Hz, but there's a delay in response - this isn't a continuous system
[17:01:23] <SWPadnos> so although the timing resolution is 1 KHz, there may be a component that's at a lower rate (and 1/2 sounds as good as any)
[17:02:56] <daveengvall__> Jon tried his system at 5 KHz ... and said the problems due to quantatization of D decreased dramatically
[17:03:14] <daveengvall__> but it pushed his 600MHz system rather hard
[17:03:17] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:03:42] <SWPadnos> I can try that on a 1.8 (?) GHz system
[17:03:50] <SWPadnos> if it has a parport. hmmm
[17:03:57] <daveengvall__> That had better make a difference
[17:04:07] <SWPadnos> not much actually
[17:04:19] <SWPadnos> well, not in motor control anyway
[17:04:25] <SWPadnos> the GUI should certainly get faster :)
[17:04:26] <daveengvall__> it may depend on the chipset
[17:04:31] <SWPadnos> yep
[17:04:46] <SWPadnos> I was surprised - I have some embedded PCs here, with Intel chipsets
[17:05:04] <SWPadnos> PCI cycles are nearly as slow as parport cycles
[17:05:06] <daveengvall__> and their realtime is good
[17:05:16] <SWPadnos> at least I'm getting 32 bits at a time
[17:05:25] <SWPadnos> these suck
[17:05:39] <daveengvall__> for realtime?
[17:05:57] <SWPadnos> the chipset doesn't do any read or write combining, so each individual read/write is a full PCI setup and single word transfer
[17:06:07] <SWPadnos> well, the RT response is good, but the PCI speed is crap
[17:06:24] <daveengvall__> I guess it depends on what you need
[17:06:35] <SWPadnos> with a core 2 duo (with one CPU doing bogus nothing), I have RT latencies in the 1 uS or less range
[17:06:57] <daveengvall__> that should keep you alive
[17:07:10] <SWPadnos> it was ~200ns max at one point - I don't remember exactly what made that happen though
[17:07:36] <SWPadnos> yeah. but it is funny that loading one core down makes the RT core so much better
[17:07:39] <daveengvall__> I've seen neg figures also but wonder if they are rollover
[17:07:40] <SWPadnos> haven't figured that one out
[17:07:44] <SWPadnos> yep
[17:08:46] <daveengvall__> I don't suppose that running the GUI on another machine will speed things up much since most of the work is probably done before
[17:08:56] <daveengvall__> it gets sent over the wire ????
[17:09:16] <SWPadnos> well, one thing I had to do on those machines was not start X
[17:09:31] <SWPadnos> I stripped down the init
[17:09:55] <SWPadnos> (actually made runlevel 2 what it's supposed to be - multiuser but no X)
[17:09:58] <daveengvall__> so you really don't have a emc machine at that point
[17:10:09] <SWPadnos> it runs a HAL application at startup
[17:10:44] <SWPadnos> it could run EMC, but I'd have to do it with keystick or something that runs in a terminal (or at the console)
[17:10:54] <jepler> SWPadnos: did you try using the no-hlt kernel boot option to see if it had the same or similar effect to running a busy-loop?
[17:10:59] <SWPadnos> I don't have it set for auto-login though, so that would likely be a little sticky
[17:11:10] <SWPadnos> jepler, no, I didn't. I can try that
[17:11:22] <jepler> SWPadnos: just something that crossed my mind as a possible explanation
[17:11:30] <jepler> hlt causing some kind of long to exit state like power save mode
[17:11:36] <SWPadnos> sure - keeping the CPU alive was something I had considered
[17:11:56] <SWPadnos> ok - I'll try that. didn't know there was a no-hlt boot option :)
[17:11:57] <cradek> is that using isolcpu?
[17:12:00] <SWPadnos> yes
[17:13:31] <SWPadnos> hmmm. it'll have to wait a little - I need to pull the Mesa card to get at the IDE connector so I can use a flash drive that's configured correctly ...
[17:13:50] <jepler> it's of no great importance
[17:13:59] <jepler> don't break a working machine just to do that
[17:14:21] <fenn> "never touch a running system" unless you're bored
[17:14:22] <SWPadnos> I was just using a normal HD during development - flash is pretty slow
[17:14:37] <SWPadnos> it's not a running system, it's my development system for this product :)
[17:15:04] <daveengvall__> It depends on which running system .... some people are rich enough to have an extra "experimental" machine around
[17:15:08] <SWPadnos> oh, I should post the photos of the power supply - I figured you guys might geta kick out of seeing something like that controlled by HAL
[17:15:28] <fenn> daveengvall__: i've got piles of "experiments" laying around - does that count?
[17:15:36] <SWPadnos> some people have customers who provide the equipment ;)
[17:15:39] <daveengvall__> usually
[17:15:44] <daveengvall__> even better
[17:16:19] <daveengvall__> anyone using the C7 mini-itx boards besides Ray?
[17:16:23] <fenn> SWPadnos: so, they have insurance or something? who pays when it explodes?
[17:17:57] <daveengvall__> so what does hal do for you PS
[17:18:10] <daveengvall__> your
[17:20:02] <SWPadnos> one sec
[17:21:08] <SWPadnos> fenn, yes, they or their customer will pay if it explodes :)
[17:21:38] <SWPadnos> daveengvall__, well, it's kinda silly, but HAL is talking to a PLC and generating pulse waveforms
[17:21:45] <SWPadnos> an dnot doing much else
[17:22:16] <daveengvall__> so ... if it does what you want
[17:22:45] <SWPadnos> oh, it does what I want. it also does some error management and scaling as current drive modules fail, that sort of stuff
[17:22:48] <SWPadnos> at 10 KHz
[17:23:09] <daveengvall__> pretty fast for a plc isn't it
[17:23:23] <SWPadnos> no, the PC/HAL runs at 10 KHz
[17:23:24] <BigJohnT> plc
[17:23:36] <BigJohnT> s can be fast
[17:23:37] <SWPadnos> the PLC is slower, but it's a very expensive PLC
[17:23:48] <SWPadnos> (something like $17k in the configuration they have)
[17:23:56] <daveengvall__> ouch
[17:24:03] <BigJohnT> allen bradley ?
[17:24:35] <SWPadnos> GE/Fanuc
[17:24:40] <SWPadnos> RX3i
[17:24:53] <SWPadnos> with about 15 I/O modules, and an extra backplane
[17:25:04] <SWPadnos> to hold them
[17:25:10] <daveengvall__> gotta run ... still don't have the machine ready to go to the shop but I'm getting close
[17:25:11] <BigJohnT> lot's of analog
[17:25:25] <SWPadnos> see you Dave
[17:25:44] <SWPadnos> not so much analog, though there are about a dozen analog connections to the PC
[17:25:50] <daveengvall__> once I get the shop stuff running I can play with tuning ... maybe by different methods.
[17:25:59] <SWPadnos> plus a dozen digital connections, plus modbus :)
[17:30:23] <BigJohnT> SWPadnos: that sounds like a fun one
[17:30:48] <SWPadnos> yep, for strange values of "fun"
[17:33:15] <BigJohnT> the more "fun" a project the more we charge LOL
[17:33:44] <SWPadnos> heh - this sure fits that category. I just sent out the $50k+ invoice :)
[17:34:15] <BigJohnT> that's what I'm talking about
[17:35:06] <SWPadnos> it'll be better when the check arrives
[17:37:47] <BigJohnT> that's the part I hate the waiting for the check
[17:38:00] <BigJohnT> we have direct deposit with one customer
[17:38:32] <BigJohnT> one customer we do a little work for takes 3-4 months to pay
[17:38:36] <BigJohnT> their a pain
[17:38:49] <SWPadnos> I know the type
[17:39:25] <BigJohnT> and it's for piddley stuff like call out's
[17:40:02] <BigJohnT> you know the call, "my allen bradley quit can you program it"
[17:40:16] <BigJohnT> and someone cut a prox wire or something dumb
[17:40:33] <SWPadnos> "yes, but to go to your site, we'll need acreit card number" :)
[17:40:40] <SWPadnos> a credit
[17:41:16] <BigJohnT> we don't take credit cards so it's cash or check
[17:41:49] <BigJohnT> our first customer 6 years ago wrote us two 6k checks that bounced
[17:42:01] <BigJohnT> that's tough to swallow
[17:42:30] <SWPadnos> yeah
[17:43:05] <BigJohnT> we finally got our money 1 1/2 years later when we put him in jail
[17:43:44] <BigJohnT> hmm the mill is quiet gotta go change parts
[17:44:34] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:49:42] <fenn> so.. i add myself to a group "usermod -a -G fuse fenn" then "chgrp fuse filename; chmod g+w filename; touch filename" and i get permission denied - what?
[17:50:06] <cradek> you have to log in again
[17:50:21] <cradek> check 'id' and you will see that you're not (yet) in the group
[17:52:43] <fenn> you're right - but id says i'm in fuse
[17:52:49] <fenn> thanks
[17:53:19] <micges> hi
[17:53:23] <cradek> if you ran 'id' in another shell (xterm?) that may have been a new login shell
[17:53:29] <cradek> hi micges
[17:53:57] <fenn> oops yes it was a different terminal
[17:54:18] <fenn> (not X)
[18:17:14] <micges> cradek: saw pics o my mill ?
[18:18:40] <BigJohnT> you put them up on wiki?
[18:18:57] <micges> alex did it for me
[18:19:22] <micges> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Micges
[18:20:03] <fenn> why do you need bellows for a laser?
[18:20:55] <BigJohnT> nice work
[18:21:17] <micges> what is bellows ?
[18:22:06] <micges> thanks
[18:22:27] <BigJohnT> covering the x axis I bet
[18:22:51] <fenn> the black rubber thing
[18:23:19] <micges> this is table mill
[18:24:30] <micges> laser is next to build by us :)
[18:24:44] <BigJohnT> I thought it was a laser
[18:28:30] <BigJohnT> ok, I added the link on the Case Studies page too
[18:29:00] <BigJohnT> micges: is that a router?
[18:30:33] <micges> what ?
[18:30:47] <BigJohnT> is it for cutting wood or metal?
[18:31:08] <micges> desktop PC is there
[18:31:27] <micges> universal
[18:32:05] <BigJohnT> by router I mean a 30,000 rpm cutter for wood not a network device sorry for not being clear
[18:32:37] <BigJohnT> micges: how much Z travel does it have?
[18:32:38] <micges> it has 24000 rpm spindle
[18:32:49] <BigJohnT> cool
[18:32:50] <micges> from 5000 to 24000
[18:32:54] <SWPadnos> phew. I didn't kill the embedded PC by plugging in the flash disk
[18:33:04] <SWPadnos> (and moving the 5i22 around)
[18:33:14] <BigJohnT> glad to hear that
[18:33:32] <SWPadnos> me too
[18:33:51] <micges> z has 60 mm
[18:35:10] <BigJohnT> made for cutting sheet material?
[18:36:11] <micges> to make very precise (0.01) matrices in thin (1..2) mm materials
[18:36:35] <BigJohnT> ok, now I understand
[18:37:41] <micges> how it is say when machine leveling material
[18:37:53] <micges> I dont know the work
[18:37:54] <micges> word
[18:38:35] <micges> prepare material to be same height on all sheet
[18:38:42] <BigJohnT> facing
[18:38:52] <micges> thanks
[18:39:13] <BigJohnT> do do a face cut is to cut the top of the material flat
[18:39:16] <SWPadnos> jepler, no-hlt didn't help
[18:39:29] <SWPadnos> but it may not be spelled right - I'll look into it
[18:40:16] <micges> my dic have no that word
[18:40:39] <SWPadnos> latencies are ~17 us without a do-nothing (with no-hlt), and 600ns or less with a do-nothing process
[18:41:10] <SWPadnos> hmmm. so it may have helped the loaded case, but it's not noticeable in the unloaded case
[18:43:03] <alex_joni> 600ns?
[18:43:09] <SWPadnos> yep
[18:43:13] <alex_joni> ooh :D
[18:43:31] <SWPadnos> it does have a peak at ~15us every once in a while, but otherwise, it's well under 1us
[18:43:40] <SWPadnos> some of the max_lat numbers are negative :)
[18:43:55] <SWPadnos> err - lat max
[18:44:12] <micges> ok my point is machine is stiff enught to do facing herself table with 10mm tool :)
[18:44:25] <micges> 2mm deep
[18:45:04] <alex_joni> negative is not good either
[18:45:11] <skunkworks> next time dave is in - someone should tell him to try the at_pid. It does the Zn method.
[18:45:27] <SWPadnos> they're still <1us absolute value
[18:45:47] <skunkworks> it got me close but my period was outside of the zn specs.. (just the motor)
[18:49:23] <alex_joni> wonder if 0xfed8 is a valid ISA address
[18:49:37] <SWPadnos> should be
[18:49:43] <alex_joni> ok, cool
[18:49:43] <micges> to all: tool height compensation have any known issues ?
[18:49:54] <alex_joni> I plugged in a cardbus parport
[18:50:31] <alex_joni> it shows up with I/O range: FED8-FEDF, FED4-FED7, FEE0-FEFF
[18:50:41] <alex_joni> and memory range: FFEFF000-FFEFFFFF
[18:51:10] <SWPadnos> well, see if it works! :)
[18:51:29] <alex_joni> it's not a Netmos.. it's an oxford OX12PCI840
[18:51:38] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: got nothing to test it with atm..
[18:51:51] <SWPadnos> no o-scope?
[18:51:58] <SWPadnos> preposterous!
[18:51:59] <alex_joni> at home? nope
[18:52:06] <alex_joni> not even a meter..
[18:52:10] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:52:26] <alex_joni> I could bend a paperclip, and check if an output goes back to an input
[18:52:28] <SWPadnos> got a spare speaker?
[18:52:30] <alex_joni> macgyver style
[18:52:34] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:52:44] <alex_joni> a paperclip is all you ever need
[18:52:58] <SWPadnos> and chewing gum wrappers - can't forget those
[18:53:13] <alex_joni> http://superyay.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/macgyverclip.jpg
[18:53:56] <alex_joni> now.. the clip is easy.. where do I get an emc2 now :D
[18:54:13] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:54:26] <alex_joni> wonder if vmware can replicate it
[18:54:35] <SWPadnos> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_problems_solved_by_MacGyver
[18:54:53] <SWPadnos> in case you missed that yesterday :)
[18:55:10] <alex_joni> rofl
[18:55:34] <micges> BigJohnT: http://imagebin.org/12980
[18:55:54] <alex_joni> doesn't show in lspci :/
[18:56:21] <SWPadnos> in vmware or a real Linux boot?
[18:56:51] <alex_joni> vmware
[18:57:08] <SWPadnos> if it's Windows and you're running Linux in VMWare, then I'd imagine you need the Windows driver loaded before VMWare will see it
[18:57:23] <alex_joni> it is loaded.. that's how I got the I/O range
[18:57:28] <SWPadnos> ok
[18:57:31] <alex_joni> but vmware doesn't replicate all stuff
[18:57:39] <alex_joni> only USB and cdrom
[18:57:45] <SWPadnos> do you see any parallel ports in lspci?
[18:57:47] <SWPadnos> right
[18:58:04] <BigJohnT> micges: nice work, what does the air cylinder do?
[18:59:47] <micges> hold and vacuum out
[19:00:41] <micges> has connected vacuum removing of chips
[19:00:58] <BigJohnT> ok, cool
[19:02:20] <BigJohnT> micges: is your shop in the forest? I see lots of trees outside of your window...
[19:02:26] <alex_joni> haha.. I found a BDI4.08 cd
[19:03:53] <micges> its no forest
[19:04:36] <BigJohnT> < playing Eric Johnson, Cliffs of Dover very loud...
[19:05:01] <micges> we generate lot of noice
[19:05:22] <micges> trees are to reduce it to neigbors :P
[19:05:45] <BigJohnT> ok
[19:06:38] <micges> BigJohnT: what you are doing?
[19:07:06] <BigJohnT> working and playing music
[19:07:15] <BigJohnT> helps me focus
[19:07:19] <BigJohnT> this is me http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/hunting/HPIM0281.jpg
[19:07:38] <micges> me to :)
[19:07:53] <micges> ok :) what you do ?
[19:08:19] <BigJohnT> design and build automation equipment for factories
[19:08:59] <micges> cool
[19:09:27] <BigJohnT> bbl got to go to town
[19:09:44] <BigJohnT> the deer was tasty btw...
[19:15:01] <micges> How can I build control of deep of tool in material ? We have one solution but I hate it :)
[19:15:21] <SWPadnos> with a mill or a laser/plasma?
[19:16:14] <micges> mill and laser
[19:16:44] <SWPadnos> I don't know for the laser - you probably have to control the laser output power, and keep it proportional to motion speed
[19:16:49] <micges> let focus to mill
[19:16:50] <SWPadnos> for a mill, add a Z axis :)
[19:17:24] <micges> hehe
[19:18:28] <micges> and if I have material height 10 mm on left and 15 on right and want to make row 2mm deep ?
[19:18:45] <micges> no more or less
[19:19:05] <SWPadnos> you need some way of measuring the height, like probing
[19:19:47] <SWPadnos> once you have that, you can set the measured height to 0 (using G92 offsets maybe), and run the G-code
[19:19:52] <micges> yes I have feet with connected resistance something
[19:20:36] <SWPadnos> oh - are you talking about something that is not level, and you want to move from the tall part (15mm) to the short part (10mm), maintaining depth?
[19:21:26] <SWPadnos> like engraving on a computer mouse, for example :)
[19:22:10] <alex_joni> hmm.. anyone knows where I can find cheapish linear guides?
[19:22:11] <micges> precise tall part have 1mm, short part has 0.7 mm and deep of row let have 0.5
[19:22:17] <micges> yes sth like that
[19:23:14] <SWPadnos> that isn't possible to do unless you have a way of continuously measuring the part height
[19:23:35] <SWPadnos> if you know the profile, just use your CAM program to do the right thing :)
[19:23:44] <SWPadnos> but if you need to measure, that's a harder problem
[19:24:07] <alex_joni> maybe you can set up something like the THC for plasma
[19:24:15] <micges> all drilling in material is controlled by our hardware and its ok but EMC have no access/control of it
[19:24:24] <SWPadnos> only if you have a means of continuously measuring depth of cut
[19:24:50] <micges> no preview/stopping/restarting of it
[19:24:53] <SWPadnos> (or part height, which amounts to the same thing)
[19:26:32] <micges> analog resistance signal we have
[19:27:38] <alex_joni> brb
[19:27:47] <micges> its converted and by PID correct the Z pos
[19:28:08] <SWPadnos> ok - that's the kind of setup I was imagining
[19:28:49] <SWPadnos> I think there isn't much else you can do, except maybe change the sensor (to a laser interferometer or something)
[19:29:16] <SWPadnos> food time - bbl
[19:29:25] <micges> ok
[19:29:36] <micges> thx
[19:49:22] <alex_joni> crap.. doesn't work
[19:49:28] <alex_joni> any idea what I could try?
[19:49:35] <alex_joni> re.. parport
[19:50:42] <alex_joni> lspci shows it at 6000, 6020 and 6028
[19:50:50] <alex_joni> but it also says [disabled]
[19:52:33] <cradek> alex_joni: http://pastebin.ca/851223
[19:52:49] <cradek> this is what mine looks like, and it works for me
[19:54:52] <fenn> micges: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/4989
[19:55:45] <alex_joni> mine says lines like:
[19:55:59] <fenn> try loadrt probe_parport
[19:56:01] <alex_joni> Region 0: I/O ports at 60000 [disabled] [size=32]
[19:56:06] <alex_joni> fenn: it's loaded
[19:56:13] <jepler> probe_parport probably doesn't do anything with PCI ports
[19:56:16] <jepler> only ISA PNP ports
[19:56:58] <alex_joni> would the board need initialisation by the 'parport' driver first?
[19:57:08] <alex_joni> e.g. linux parport or parport_pc ?
[19:57:31] <jepler> there is a lot more 'detect & enable' type code in the parport_pc driver that I did not put in emc's probe_parport
[19:57:42] <jepler> so -- worth a try I guess
[19:58:57] <alex_joni> modprobe parport_pc doesn't seem to do anything
[19:59:11] <alex_joni> rmmod parport_pc reports module does not exist in /proc/modules
[19:59:41] <fenn> maybe its that line in modules.conf
[19:59:48] <cradek> use insmod directly if loading is disabled
[20:00:07] <jepler> or 'man modprobe' for the flag to ignore modules.conf stuff
[20:00:15] <jepler> -a or -i I think
[20:00:19] <micges> fenn: thanks
[20:00:39] <micges> cool
[20:01:07] <fenn> the animated picture is not quite right
[20:01:08] <alex_joni> -i causes a segfault
[20:01:20] <jepler> well that's interesting
[20:02:49] <micges> but thats great and simple idea !
[20:02:52] <fenn> micges: if your table is really sloped by 5mm, you should cut it flat in place
[20:03:22] <fenn> if the sheet material is just warped, you can use double sided tape to hold it down
[20:03:28] <micges> no, 5mm was to imagine problem
[20:03:46] <micges> scale is 0.5..1.5 mm :)
[20:05:49] <micges> this is not single sheet problem but technology of production
[20:12:02] <alex_joni> doesn't work..
[20:12:18] <alex_joni> will try the parport_cs driver after the next reboot
[20:22:24] <alex_joni> yay.. it works :D
[20:22:41] <alex_joni> I had to load parport, parport_pc and parport_cs
[20:22:58] <alex_joni> after unloading them, I loaded hal_parport cfg="0x6020"
[20:23:11] <alex_joni> and now I can toggle input pins with a wire an toggling an output pin
[21:14:04] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:14:35] <micges> good night
[21:21:40] <maddash> er, what is the peak AC voltage in the US?
[21:21:59] <maddash> =115*sqrt(2)?
[21:23:40] <cradek> at my house it's more like 120
[21:24:16] <maddash> but what does "120V" mean? AC amplitude? or RMS voltage?
[21:24:26] <cradek> AC voltages are measured as RMS
[21:24:46] <cradek> so yeah peak-to-peak is *sqrt2
[21:25:08] <maddash> wait a sec -- isnt peak2peak twice the amplitude?
[21:25:32] <maddash> cradek: don't you live in finland or something?
[21:26:27] <cradek> no, US
[21:26:49] <Gamma-X> maddash anonimasu lives in sweden
[21:30:15] <cradek> http://www.ee.unb.ca/tervo/ee2791/vrms.htm
[21:30:35] <cradek> oops disregard what I said about peak-to-peak
[21:30:55] <cradek> "peak" is *sqrt2
[21:32:14] <maddash> sweet.. thanks
[21:39:55] <micges> good night
[21:41:15] <maddash> http://incredimazing.com/page/Hi_Im_Vista
[21:41:40] <maddash> i burst out laughing everytime I lay eyes on the Unix avatar
[21:44:46] <fenn> i really think this is more appropriate http://mytsoftware.com/misc/linux2.jpg
[21:47:55] <SWPadnos> http://incredimazing.com/page/Science_vs_Faith_a_flowchart
[21:48:01] <maddash> boooooooooo
[21:48:09] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:48:10] <maddash> fenn: that's so untrue
[22:42:20] <maddash> oh dear
[22:42:30] <SWPadnos> uh-oh :)
[22:56:19] <toastydeath> thundercats, ho
[23:26:01] <LawrenceG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJEXbEXn0CQ emc2 servo project
[23:29:06] <SWPadnos> cool stuff
[23:29:12] <SWPadnos> what do the blinkenlights mean?
[23:30:05] <LawrenceG> they are on the output of the servo drive.... + and - current drive
[23:30:13] <SWPadnos> ah - ok
[23:31:11] <LawrenceG> they actually are showing the voltage across the motor... since the drive controls current, they show a little jitter as the drive command jumps around
[23:31:44] <SWPadnos> ok - they didn't quite seem to match up with movement - more with accel
[23:32:21] <LawrenceG> I am not sure how well sinked the videos are
[23:32:55] <SWPadnos> heh