#emc | Logs for 2008-01-06

[00:00:29] <BigJohnT> cost effective though at $90
[00:01:52] <Skullworks-PGAB> true - I prefer the KDK style - but no one makes aynthing near small enough.
[00:02:15] <BigJohnT> tried flea bay?
[00:05:56] <BigJohnT> dang dog will be in high heaven tonight T-Bones
[00:06:30] <daveengvall__> OK, 2.2.2 is installed and verified with AXIS
[00:07:30] <Skullworks-PGAB> BBL - have to go deliver a table...
[00:07:47] <daveengvall__> But as usual things change .... If I configure only X the system will not load complaining about missing axis.1.motor-pos-fb
[00:08:04] <BigJohnT> Skull http://cgi.ebay.com/6-12-QUICK-CHANGE-TOOL-POST-SET-WEDGE-TYPE-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ180200314169QQihZ008QQcategoryZ45019QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[00:08:29] <BigJohnT> that too big?
[00:10:09] <jmkasunich> that seems like the size I have
[00:10:14] <jmkasunich> AXA I think they call it
[00:10:16] <BigJohnT> jmkasunich: I use the inserts on this page http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=675&PARTPG=GSDRVSM&PMT4NO=35348947&PMITEM=08443418&PMCTLG=00&PMT4TP=*LTIP
[00:10:21] <BigJohnT> yep
[00:10:39] <BigJohnT> I use the bxa and cxa on my lathes
[00:10:50] <jmkasunich> I just dug in a box and found a pair of matching MXL pulleys
[00:11:01] <BigJohnT> sweet!
[00:11:15] <jmkasunich> better - the bore fits my encoder shaft
[00:11:34] <BigJohnT> how good can that be?
[00:11:35] <jmkasunich> so, if I bore one of them out to 12mm, it will go on the stud in place of the gear that is there now
[00:11:43] <jmkasunich> the other one on the encoder
[00:12:03] <jmkasunich> rig up a bracket that will hold the encoder and let me adjust belt tension, and I'm in like flynn
[00:12:06] <BigJohnT> sounds like your almost ready to thread
[00:12:10] <daveengvall__> anyone know what ini lines have to be set to HOME_INDEX_ONLY
[00:12:32] <jmkasunich> daveengvall__: I think you set search vel to zero, index vel non-zero
[00:12:34] <daveengvall__> hey JMK .... time to buy a lottery ticket ... :-)
[00:13:00] <daveengvall__> I'll go try it
[00:13:08] <BigJohnT> I'll just have to use my nuts for now I mean half nuts...
[00:13:14] <BigJohnT> for threading
[00:13:16] <daveengvall__> What worked on 2.1.7 doesn't work not ... 2.2.2
[00:13:16] <eric_U> tmi
[00:13:27] <daveengvall__> bbs
[00:13:43] <jmkasunich> hmm, grabbing this thing is gonna be tricky
[00:13:57] <BigJohnT> the timing pulley
[00:14:00] <jmkasunich> yep
[00:14:00] <BigJohnT> ?
[00:14:11] <jmkasunich> I gotta bore it out, and face off most of the hub
[00:14:21] <BigJohnT> I took a piece of 6061 and bored out a hole to fit
[00:14:26] <BigJohnT> then split it
[00:14:35] <jmkasunich> thats what I did when I needed to bore the pulleys for my steppers
[00:14:47] <jmkasunich> just wasn't looking forward to doing it again
[00:14:48] <BigJohnT> unless you have some V jaws
[00:14:57] <BigJohnT> I have them now...
[00:15:27] <BigJohnT> from flea bay
[00:15:29] <jmkasunich> even with v-jaws I'd be grabbing it by the flanges
[00:15:52] <BigJohnT> no shoulder...
[00:15:54] <jmkasunich> if I make a split sleeve, I can make it short enough to go between the flanges, and thick enough to be outside them
[00:16:03] <BigJohnT> yep
[00:16:09] <BigJohnT> that works
[00:16:13] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich puts the lathe spindle back together
[00:18:18] <BigJohnT> bbl
[00:41:20] <daveengvall__> tried homing .... it goes of searching but I gave up after two complete turns ...if it doesn't find it in one you're dead.
[00:42:20] <daveengvall__> all I really need for now is a way to force homing .... on the non-test setup it will have index plus switch to home on.
[00:44:49] <daveengvall__> hi tomp
[00:45:06] <tomp> hey dave , happy new year
[00:45:16] <daveengvall__> indeed ...
[00:52:06] <jmkasunich> daveengvall__: it sounds like your encoder indexing isn't working right
[00:52:18] <jmkasunich> could be the encoder, the HW, or the hal config
[00:53:06] <jmkasunich> to troubleshoot: hook up halscope to observe counts and index-enable
[00:53:31] <jmkasunich> the driver's index-enable should be connected to axis.whatever.index-enable
[00:53:46] <jmkasunich> that signal will go true when EMC wants to find the index
[00:53:58] <jmkasunich> and the driver should make it go low when the index is detected
[00:54:06] <jmkasunich> counts should go to zero at the same time
[00:59:06] <cradek> jmkasunich: didn't we test and fix motenc index homing at fest?
[00:59:40] <cradek> I think jack e. had motenc
[01:00:32] <cradek> daveengvall__: are you simulating the home switch somehow, or are you using an index-only homing configuration?
[01:01:25] <jmkasunich> yeah - the mazak has motenc too
[01:01:44] <cradek> oh, I thought it was mesa
[01:01:46] <jmkasunich> cradek: he's doing index-only - search vel = 0, latch-vel nonzero
[01:01:55] <cradek> oh ok
[01:02:07] <cradek> stuart s. is using that successfully (on ppmc)
[01:02:08] <jmkasunich> that is the way to invoke index only, right?
[01:02:14] <cradek> got me, I'd have to rtfm
[01:02:29] <jmkasunich> I figured you might remember since you wtfc
[01:02:31] <cradek> (or tfs)
[01:03:22] <jmkasunich> dunno how far you read back, but it looks like I managed to scrounge the stuff I need to mount my spindle encoder
[01:03:29] <cradek> cool!
[01:03:53] <jmkasunich> threading here I come (after a bit of machining, a bit of assembly, a bit of wiring, and a bit of config)
[01:04:47] <jmkasunich> did you do something on your lathe to ensure that the toolpost is in a repeatable spot each time you mount it to the table?
[01:05:16] <jmkasunich> or do you just not remove it?
[01:05:17] <cradek> HOME_SEARCH_VEL zero, HOME_LATCH_VEL nonzero -> index-only
[01:05:24] <jmkasunich> good, thats what I thought
[01:05:31] <cradek> I try very hard to never remove it
[01:05:39] <jmkasunich> ah
[01:05:48] <jmkasunich> harder to do when you mill on the same table
[01:05:49] <cradek> you won't be so lucky
[01:05:51] <cradek> right
[01:05:56] <jmkasunich> I'm gonna have to come up with a plan
[01:06:18] <cradek> a couple dowel pins and holes in the table?
[01:06:32] <cradek> (will you want to rotate it?)
[01:06:33] <jmkasunich> I also just looked in some boxes that I've had stashed for several years - my dad gave me some carbide insert type lathe tooling, which I'd like to be able to mount repeatably
[01:06:37] <cradek> that's trouble too
[01:06:49] <jmkasunich> its worse than that
[01:07:07] <jmkasunich> there is this truncated pyramid cast iron thing that supports the toolpost
[01:07:16] <jmkasunich> that is keyed to the t-slot, so it won't rotate, just slide
[01:07:22] <jmkasunich> but the toolpost can rotate on top of that
[01:07:44] <cradek> for CSS, your reference tool's tip should be very close to the centerline when the X axis is at 0
[01:07:56] <archivist> * archivist thinks tool point touch off
[01:08:12] <cradek> yeah that would work fine for everything but CSS
[01:08:21] <eric_U> archivist stays up later than I do
[01:08:24] <jmkasunich> CSS uses the tool table
[01:08:31] <archivist> only 1 am
[01:08:38] <cradek> yes for CSS you have to use TLO
[01:08:50] <jmkasunich> cradek: can I touch off with the reference tool, then use the table and get good CSS results?
[01:09:12] <jmkasunich> or are touch-off and TLO mutually incompatible
[01:09:22] <cradek> no, the reference tool has to mount so it zeroes at the axis zero
[01:09:50] <cradek> you can use touch-off (G54) to tweak your diameters but not for much else
[01:09:56] <jmkasunich> ok
[01:10:12] <cradek> emc needs to know the radius. all it has is axis position (and TLO)
[01:10:26] <a-l-p-h-a> toys to make! http://www.homemetalshopclub.org/projects/scotchx2/scotchx2.html
[01:10:38] <cradek> those other offsets are internal to the interp (for better or worse)
[01:10:47] <jmkasunich> true - whenver I touch off, I enter the radius, but EMC doesn't know that - I could be entering anything
[01:10:54] <cradek> yes
[01:11:09] <jmkasunich> I'm having a thought (dangerous)
[01:11:32] <jmkasunich> my t-slots are closed in the back, by the motor mounting plate
[01:11:52] <jmkasunich> I could make a t-slot cover that is just the right length to touch that plate and the front of the toolpost
[01:12:06] <jmkasunich> double duty - spacer for proper position, and keep crap out of the slot
[01:12:30] <cradek> is any integer number of 123 blocks about the right size?
[01:12:52] <jmkasunich> wouldn't work, they won't fit down in the slot, and the plate doesn't stick up
[01:13:33] <jmkasunich> making a piece is no big deal
[01:13:53] <daveengvall__> cradek ... HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 0.0, HOME_LATCH_VEL = -0.05 HOME_USE_INDEX = YES , HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = YES, HOME_INDEX_ONLY = YES
[01:14:11] <daveengvall__> it searches but doesn't find.
[01:14:18] <jmkasunich> daveengvall__: did you read what I read about halscoping index-enable and counts?
[01:14:56] <daveengvall__> guess I missed that ... oh ... duh!
[01:15:01] <daveengvall__> will do that after dinner
[01:15:42] <daveengvall__> halscope is really powerful but takes thinking ... hard on me. ;-)
[01:16:07] <daveengvall__> gotta go cook ...
[01:16:11] <daveengvall__> see ya later
[01:17:21] <cradek> I bet his index-enable isn't hooked up
[01:17:55] <jmkasunich> yeah
[01:30:26] <eric_U> I like his idea of having a fake stage
[01:34:58] <jmkasunich> ?
[01:36:10] <eric_U> ?!@?
[01:36:20] <jmkasunich> whose idea, what fake stage
[01:36:26] <eric_U> dave
[01:36:37] <eric_U> of course, his fake stage isn't very good
[01:47:42] <eric_U> http://cgi.ebay.com/Schneeberger-Ball-Slide-Dual-Carriages-248mm-Rail-New_W0QQitemZ130187453325QQihZ003QQcategoryZ55826QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[01:47:44] <Ziegler> Off topic but still pretty cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4S6q9OG3JE
[01:47:55] <eric_U> somebody buy that
[01:48:06] <Ziegler> eric_U:
[01:48:11] <Ziegler> I have about 5 sets of those
[01:48:18] <Ziegler> I thinks its from that guy
[01:48:41] <Ziegler> maybe not... mine are all used
[01:48:50] <eric_U> seems like an outrageously low price
[01:49:08] <Ziegler> (5 days 2 hours)
[01:49:24] <eric_U> bin
[01:49:42] <Ziegler> ohhh
[01:49:50] <Ziegler> didn't notice that
[01:49:59] <eric_U> might be a mistake
[01:50:50] <jmkasunich> I wonder how big it actually is - nothing in the pic for scale
[01:51:09] <eric_U> 248mm
[01:51:34] <eric_U> 10"
[01:51:37] <Ziegler> 7mm
[01:51:43] <Ziegler> wide
[01:51:50] <jmkasunich> oh, tiny
[01:51:51] <Ziegler> the berings
[01:52:16] <Ziegler> err... I mean the rails
[01:52:26] <eric_U> pretty small
[01:52:31] <jmkasunich> I was thinking more like 1" wide and 24-30 long
[01:52:40] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich loses interest
[01:52:51] <Ziegler> yeah... the sets I have are 1" wide
[01:52:57] <jmkasunich> I really gotta figure out how these damned offsets work
[01:53:04] <Ziegler> (explains the price)
[01:53:08] <eric_U> too bad you can't use some other bearing on rails
[01:53:10] <jmkasunich> I've crashed my lathe twice in the last half hour
[01:53:32] <jmkasunich> home it - display reads zero
[01:53:56] <jmkasunich> I'm about an inch from the work, so I say G0 (or G1) Z-0.5 to get a bit closer
[01:54:16] <jmkasunich> and it merrily rams into the work, the display winds up at minus a lot more than 0.5
[01:59:16] <gezar> ah lathe work shifts
[01:59:21] <gezar> mind if I try to help you jmk?
[01:59:37] <jmkasunich> sure
[01:59:50] <gezar> okay, how are you setting where Z zero is?
[02:00:05] <jmkasunich> so far I haven't - all I've done is homed Z
[02:00:18] <jmkasunich> Z has no home switch, so homing it simply sets machine zero to the current position
[02:00:22] <gezar> because I dont know emc good enough, I have to sorta let you teach me this, what I do know is a bunch of ways do stuff with cnc lathes
[02:00:46] <jmkasunich> there might be (probably is) a G54 offset left over from the previious time I ran the machine
[02:00:51] <jmkasunich> and I'm sure thats the problem
[02:00:58] <gezar> yes thats exactly it
[02:01:15] <jmkasunich> but IMO, if there is such an offset, then when I hit home, the DRO should display the G54'ed value, not zero
[02:01:31] <gezar> try this, no, home is a machine position
[02:01:38] <gezar> it cancles out g54
[02:01:58] <gezar> however, if during an operation g54 is implied Im betting
[02:02:02] <jmkasunich> if I home, and the display reads 0, I should be able to MDI G0Z0 and have it not move
[02:02:10] <gezar> so do this with mdi, g0 g54 z5.
[02:03:03] <gezar> then compare your position to the work zero, and adjust the g54, however, try go z5. before you include the g54 and see if the resulting move is the same
[02:03:30] <jmkasunich> gezar - my problem isn't in my methods
[02:03:39] <gezar> i know its not
[02:03:54] <jmkasunich> my problem is that the DRO is displaying G53 coordinates, even though G54 is active and MDI commands go to G54 coordinates
[02:04:28] <jmkasunich> I can't see how that is a good thing
[02:04:32] <gezar> are g54 and g53 the same in the offset table?
[02:04:36] <jmkasunich> no
[02:04:57] <jmkasunich> g53 are machine coords
[02:05:08] <jmkasunich> g54 is an offset coord system, and right now the offset is not zero
[02:05:46] <jmkasunich> I think its a bug that the display is using G53 coords while G54 is in effect
[02:06:09] <gezar> does emc have a "work shift" type command like a g10 i think?
[02:07:40] <jmkasunich> yes, thats whats used to touch off - it sets G54 (or whichever coord system you specify)
[02:08:23] <jmkasunich> gezer - this is a very simple issue - immediately after homing, the DRO is displaying G53 coordinates even though G54 is in effect
[02:09:29] <gezar> and your g54 is probably -.050 from the front of your work piece right?
[02:09:48] <gezar> or whatever your wanting to face off
[02:11:16] <jmkasunich> it will be
[02:11:19] <jmkasunich> I didn't get that far
[02:11:43] <jmkasunich> I was moving to that spot so I could issue the G10 which sets G54 = 0 at that spot
[02:11:52] <jmkasunich> but when I tried the move it crashed into the work
[02:12:28] <jmkasunich> because the old G54 = 0 was inside the workpiece, and the DRO didn't tell me that I was at about Z=2 in the G54 system
[02:12:36] <jmkasunich> the DRO said I was at zero
[02:13:11] <gezar> oh hold on
[02:13:34] <jmkasunich> EMC remembers G54 offsets from previous runs
[02:13:39] <gezar> did you set your tool to the new parts work face before setting the new g10 for the new g54?
[02:13:51] <jmkasunich> I NEVER GOT THAT FAR!!!!!
[02:14:10] <jmkasunich> my very first move after homing the machine crashed it
[02:14:21] <gezar> im not trying to be rude or offensive im just openly thinking
[02:15:26] <jmkasunich> I understand exactly what happened now (didn't before)
[02:15:44] <gezar> thats good
[02:16:02] <jmkasunich> I homed it, G54 was in effect and I was at about 3" in that coordinate system, but the DRO was displaying G53 (machine) coords, and showing 0.0
[02:16:20] <jmkasunich> I saw 0.0, said "I need to move a half inch left" and MDI'ed G0 Z-0.5
[02:16:34] <jmkasunich> since I was actually at Z=3.something, that started a 3.5" move
[02:16:53] <gezar> would the dro show different numbers if you set it to relative instead of machine?
[02:17:04] <jmkasunich> I believe it is at relative
[02:17:19] <jmkasunich> yep, it is
[02:17:33] <gezar> if you switch it to relative is it the same numbers?
[02:17:46] <jmkasunich> it is already at relative, and has been all along
[02:18:11] <jmkasunich> now that I've issued a G54 manually it is displaying the proper (G54) numbers
[02:18:37] <jmkasunich> I think this is a bug - it doesn't display the right coords immediately after homing (might be only after the very first time you home)
[02:19:10] <gezar> i didnt mean to be of no use
[02:19:16] <jmkasunich> thats ok
[02:19:24] <jmkasunich> I need to talk to cradek or jepler about his
[02:19:26] <jmkasunich> this
[02:19:43] <jmkasunich> it might be a bug, or it might be that I'm stupid and its doing what its supposed to do
[02:20:24] <jmkasunich> gonna see if I can reliably repeat the "bug"
[02:20:30] <jmkasunich> (without repeating the crash)
[02:23:48] <gezar> this is odd, should I be able to hear the motion signals through the sound card?
[02:24:37] <[Harlock]> like a plain beep or just noise?
[02:25:33] <gezar> like the frequencys being generated are litterly exiting the sound card in my linux box, enter the sound card on my other box that I sit in front of, then come out to the headphones I have on
[02:26:03] <gezar> if I adjust the feed rate override, I can hear the change in the frequency, ie the pitch gets lower as the default program runs
[02:26:29] <[Harlock]> so the two computers are independant?
[02:26:39] <gezar> yep
[02:26:46] <SWPadnos> could be ground loop-related (or something like that)
[02:26:47] <[Harlock]> I would look for grounding problem
[02:27:16] <gezar> ive been hearing strange things form the sound card lately, and this is the first time with emc running and my headphones on
[02:27:21] <[Harlock]> you could also install ferrite cores on some cables to reduce parasitic interference
[02:27:57] <gezar> well, the noise comes across wether emc is runing or not, but when emc is, Is when I can hear pulses
[02:28:00] <[Harlock]> do you hear other noises that could be generated by your linux box?
[02:28:13] <gezar> yeah, odd sounds
[02:28:27] <[Harlock]> I used to hear the hard drive seeking in the sound card of the same computer
[02:28:39] <gezar> yeah its sorta like that type of stuff
[02:28:51] <gezar> but when emc runs, its as if I have my ear pressed up to a motor
[02:28:54] <[Harlock]> but across two computers, that's new to me
[02:29:21] <gezar> well I have the output from this box emc, connect to a sound card input on edge
[02:29:42] <[Harlock]> in a line-in input?
[02:29:44] <gezar> so I dont have to wear multiple headphones
[02:29:46] <gezar> yep
[02:29:55] <[Harlock]> and if you disconnect this link?
[02:30:14] <[Harlock]> do you still hear the motors?
[02:30:17] <gezar> well, yeah, the sound on edge goes away, but If I plug in to emc i can hear it
[02:30:30] <gezar> with the headphones that is
[02:30:42] <[Harlock]> wait, with speakers it doesn't do it?
[02:30:54] <gezar> i dont own any speekers
[02:31:01] <gezar> but it would if I had them
[02:31:38] <[Harlock]> well if you hear the hard drive seeking, I doubt there's much you can do
[02:31:49] <gezar> progbably right
[02:31:58] <gezar> its neat I can hear acc/dcel
[02:32:08] <[Harlock]> maybe you could try to put all inputs to mute
[02:32:24] <[Harlock]> on the linux box
[02:33:17] <gezar> yeah I tried that
[02:33:20] <gezar> didnt work
[02:33:36] <gezar> when i have the volume down is when I can hear the axis motion really good
[02:34:01] <[Harlock]> does your second box runs linux as well?
[02:34:21] <gezar> no
[02:35:10] <[Harlock]> I know there's a feature in linux where you can have devices that are shared over the network
[02:35:44] <[Harlock]> so you could feed the "sounds" from the linux box to the other one over the network
[02:35:46] <gezar> there is just something wrong with my emc boxes mobo I think
[02:36:12] <eric_U> I stalled buying a monitor on sale, now they sold out
[02:36:15] <gezar> maybe a bad ground or something I dont know
[02:37:00] <eric_U> hopefully one of the stores has a blowout sale on 19" monitors tomorrow
[02:39:16] <eric_U> anyone know any good ebay sniping programs?
[03:02:09] <Guest587> Pluto Servo Implementation
[03:09:14] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos u alive?
[03:11:20] <Guest587> Does anyone have any experience with the Pluto servo board?
[03:12:04] <jmkasunich> if you mean "anyone", yes.... if you mean "anyone who is in the channel right now", not so sure
[03:12:35] <jmkasunich> sorry, didn't mean to be a smartass
[03:13:11] <eric_U> I've seen some discussion that it's not working in the current emc?
[03:13:18] <Guest587> no problem .. sort of new to this for of communication
[03:13:33] <jmkasunich> I thought that was pluto stepper that had issues (its alpha quality at the moment)
[03:13:39] <jmkasunich> Guest587: no problem
[03:13:40] <eric_U> sometimes people are actually working on a machine
[03:13:51] <jmkasunich> usually its better to just ask your question
[03:14:07] <jmkasunich> it might be something that a person can answer, it might not
[03:14:11] <eric_U> so you might not get an answer for 30 minutes
[03:14:26] <jmkasunich> if you ask "does anyone have experiance", they have no clue what your real question is
[03:14:43] <jmkasunich> so unless they are true experts and can answer even tough questions they stay quiet
[03:15:04] <SWPadnos> like me
[03:15:06] <SWPadnos> oops
[03:15:17] <SWPadnos> hi Gamma-X - yes, I'm alive
[03:15:18] <Guest587> well i have been trying to implement the pluto servo for some time now and am a little stuck on tuning up my motors, re-configuring some of my enable inputs and overall tweaking of the machine.
[03:16:14] <jmkasunich> thats pretty general
[03:17:36] <Guest587> ok , I need to change the enable inputs on each axis from FALSE to TRUE in the HAL so that is active low instead of high at start up
[03:18:05] <jmkasunich> you want the external hardware pins to be active low instead of active high?
[03:18:28] <Guest587> thats right
[03:18:42] <jmkasunich> do the pluto outputs have -invert parameters?
[03:18:52] <jmkasunich> (you use halcmd show to find that out)
[03:19:39] <SWPadnos> Jeff had mentioned that the DIR output (in the pluto-step config) is XOR'ed with the bit output it shares
[03:19:56] <jmkasunich> this isn't pluto step (I hope)
[03:19:59] <jmkasunich> pluto-servo
[03:20:11] <Guest587> yeah pluto-servo
[03:20:26] <SWPadnos> if the same is true for the servo enable lines, then you would set the bit output that corresponds to the ENABLE line to 1
[03:20:32] <SWPadnos> I don't know if it's true though
[03:20:39] <jmkasunich> I don't either
[03:20:41] <SWPadnos> err - the same
[03:20:46] <jmkasunich> I don't know the specifics of the pluto at all
[03:21:01] <jmkasunich> but inverting a digital output should be pretty much the same regardless of the output device
[03:21:28] <jmkasunich> there should be a parameter something like pluto.0.digital-out-N-invert
[03:21:35] <Guest587> I think my problem is I dont how to change the halcmd parameters
[03:21:47] <jmkasunich> while your EMC is running, open a shell
[03:21:54] <jmkasunich> and type "halcmd show param"
[03:22:01] <jmkasunich> that will give you the whole list
[03:22:19] <jmkasunich> "halcmd show param pluto" will give you only the ones that start with pluto
[03:22:40] <jmkasunich> "halcmd show param *-invert" will give you only the ones that end with -invert
[03:22:42] <jmkasunich> etc
[03:22:55] <jmkasunich> if you find a -invert parameter, its value will probably be zerp
[03:22:57] <jmkasunich> zero
[03:23:14] <jmkasunich> you can set it with "halcmd setp whatever-the-name-is 1"
[03:23:29] <SWPadnos> halcmd show param "pluto*invert" will give you all pluto invert parameters
[03:23:37] <jmkasunich> and you can put "setp whatever-the-name-is 1" in your hal file to make that happen when you start EMC
[03:23:52] <Guest587> yeah i can see that parameter i want to chage in the axis under the hal tree ... I will try changing it this way... is there a graphical way of changing it???
[03:24:01] <jmkasunich> I don't know
[03:24:05] <SWPadnos> use a graphical terminal ;)
[03:24:15] <jmkasunich> do not fear the command line ;-)
[03:25:23] <SWPadnos> I haven't looked at all the pluto FPGA source, but it looks as though the enables are just I/O bits that are connected to the motion controller enable outputs
[03:25:31] <Guest587> yeah i think thats where my problem lies.. I can chage things fine from axis and the ini and hal files however digging deaper is the problem
[03:26:51] <SWPadnos> ah ok - the pluto enables are input bits that enable the PWM. if you want an external enable signal (to a motor drive, for example), you connect the enable signal to the output pin as well
[03:27:20] <SWPadnos> it looks like the HAL bit inputs are internal to the driver
[03:27:48] <Guest587> yeah thats what i need the motor drive need the enable signal so that everytime i turn on my servo amps the motors dont start running
[03:28:13] <Guest587> internal to the driver???
[03:28:34] <SWPadnos> yes, "driver" in this case being the software that lets EMC communicate with the pluto board
[03:29:45] <Guest587> oh ok .. so can i change this information in the driver then?
[03:30:38] <SWPadnos> first, the axis enables should be off when you start EMC, so the pluto should output no PWM until you enable the machine (machine on turns that on, I think)
[03:31:42] <SWPadnos> if you need an "active low" signal to enable your drives, then all you need to do is change the -invert parameter of whatever pin is used for the motor enables
[03:32:14] <SWPadnos> like `halcmd setp pluto-servo.dout.09-invert true`
[03:33:32] <Guest587> yeah so then what we have just been discussing is the correct procedure.. changing the function in the halcmd
[03:33:49] <SWPadnos> heh - that's not a function ;)
[03:34:09] <SWPadnos> so you would add that setp line to the hal file in your EMC config
[03:34:32] <SWPadnos> I don't think there's any GUI you can use (other than a GUI text editor) to make changes to the HAL file
[03:35:12] <Guest587> oh ok i can... so them it load that information everytime i load my configuration starts...
[03:35:26] <SWPadnos> yes
[03:36:01] <Guest587> ok well that solves one of my problems
[03:36:35] <SWPadnos> cool
[03:36:39] <Guest587> what gui test editor would you recommend?
[03:37:00] <Guest587> text
[03:37:02] <SWPadnos> go to Applications -> Accessories -> Text Editor
[03:37:14] <SWPadnos> or Programs - whatever the main menu is
[03:38:12] <Guest587> oh just for editing the .hal file
[03:38:17] <SWPadnos> yep
[03:38:51] <Guest587> oh ok i have already been doing that for the pluto servo.hal
[03:39:31] <Guest587> i just didnt realize that you can add `halcmd setp pluto-servo.dout.09-invert true` into that file to change the HAL information
[03:39:32] <SWPadnos> ah - in that case, wherever the axis.n.amp-enable-out signal is connected is around where you want to stick the invert setting
[03:39:43] <SWPadnos> leave "halcmd" out of that file though
[03:39:46] <SWPadnos> that's for a terminal
[03:40:11] <SWPadnos> so just "setp whatever-the-name-is-invert 1" (without the quotes)
[03:40:24] <jmkasunich> "halcmd" is a program, and "setp pluto-servo.dout.09-invert true" is a command that tells halcmd to do something
[03:40:29] <Guest587> right ok then im not confused then the halcmd was only for the terminal
[03:40:43] <jmkasunich> a .hal file is a list of a bunch of commands that you want to do when your machine starts up
[03:41:09] <Guest587> right its all making sense now
[03:42:38] <Guest587> ok so my next question is any good reccomendation for tuning motors ?
[03:42:47] <SWPadnos> experience? :)
[03:43:08] <Guest587> good answer
[03:43:14] <SWPadnos> sorry - couldn't resist
[03:43:27] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos
[03:43:39] <Gamma-X> do u have adam1 's email adress
[03:43:55] <Guest587> nope
[03:44:19] <SWPadnos> Gamma-X, when was that conversation?
[03:44:26] <SWPadnos> around what date
[03:44:45] <Gamma-X> 09/22/07
[03:44:46] <Gamma-X> ruffly
[03:44:53] <SWPadnos> ok
[03:44:56] <Gamma-X> pssoibly 10-22/07
[03:46:17] <SWPadnos> I don't see any email from him
[03:46:32] <Gamma-X> swp do u remember what he did at all?
[03:47:00] <SWPadnos> I do remember discussing using linear scales, but I think I only helped get him going - like where to connect the feedback, etc.
[03:47:07] <Gamma-X> im tryin to figure out the pin layout of the connector going to the control.
[03:47:10] <SWPadnos> I think he did any further configuration
[03:47:24] <SWPadnos> oh, I don't know any of that
[03:47:48] <Gamma-X> did he wind up gettin rid of the scales and usin encoders?
[03:48:17] <SWPadnos> dunno
[03:48:31] <Gamma-X> u see him around at all?
[03:48:45] <SWPadnos> I don't think so lately
[03:49:55] <Gamma-X> how would I figure out what connector does what? lol there hooked into a pcb inside the servo amp box?
[03:50:39] <SWPadnos> a PCB that goes to other connectors, or a PCB that does something? (ie, it has components on it)
[03:50:55] <Gamma-X> other connectors
[03:51:09] <Gamma-X> some are goin to power it looks like and the others just spread like wildfire
[03:51:12] <SWPadnos> ok, that may make it a little easier
[03:51:43] <SWPadnos> well, I don't know enough about these controls to even begin - I don't know what connector you're talking about actually ;)
[03:52:06] <Gamma-X> its like a 50 pin mil connector hooked into the back of an anilam
[03:52:39] <SWPadnos> it's best if you can identify the major parts inside the control - servo drives, feedback conditioning (if any), power supply, etc.
[03:52:41] <Gamma-X> i doubt theres a wiring diagram...
[03:52:53] <SWPadnos> also spindle controls and limit/home switches
[03:52:57] <Guest587> SWPadnos thanks for the help and info i'll keep you posted
[03:53:00] <Gamma-X> theres a crap laod of stuff in there lol
[03:53:07] <SWPadnos> Guest587, ok - good luck
[03:53:16] <SWPadnos> Gamma-X, sounds like more work for you then ;)
[03:58:52] <eric_U> there has to be a wiring diagram somewhere, ask anilam
[04:02:18] <Gamma-X2> SWPadnos sorry got disconnected
[04:02:27] <Gamma-X2> did u say anything? its just a maze in that box! lol
[04:02:43] <SWPadnos> no, but eric_U had a good point - ask anilam
[04:03:04] <Gamma-X2> true
[04:04:24] <eric_U> your best bet is to leave as much alone as you can
[04:04:35] <eric_U> if a wire comes out of the box, you should be able to leave that alone
[04:05:16] <Gamma-X2> i want to just take 5 pin connector and hook most of the pins into the mesa cards
[04:05:31] <eric_U> not really a good idea
[04:05:38] <Gamma-X2> do u think that anilam crusader wiring diagram can tell me where those leads are and what they do?
[04:05:44] <Gamma-X2> eric_U y not?
[04:06:12] <eric_U> because someone took a lot of care to design that wiring
[04:06:29] <eric_U> you want to pick it off the machine at the easiest place
[04:06:56] <SWPadnos> I think he's talking about the connector between the machine and the control
[04:07:02] <Gamma-X2> correct
[04:07:04] <SWPadnos> that sounds like the best spot to me (if it can work)
[04:07:14] <eric_U> it's probably nicely connected to a terminal strip inside
[04:07:23] <eric_U> and there are probably relays and such that he wants to keep
[04:07:31] <Gamma-X2> correct
[04:07:37] <SWPadnos> no no - there are two boxes, with a cable between them
[04:07:57] <Gamma-X2> thats why i want to just hook up a female adapter to that 50 pin mil connector and bolt it to a computer case...
[04:08:06] <SWPadnos> I think the idea is to disconnect the cable fromthe Anilam control, and make an EMC-driven connector that matches the pinout
[04:08:12] <Gamma-X2> then wire it as needed while still retaining all parts intact
[04:08:23] <Gamma-X2> SWPadnos correct
[04:08:25] <eric_U> I'd want to see that pinout
[04:08:30] <SWPadnos> exactly
[04:08:38] <SWPadnos> it sounds like a good spot, if all the info can be found
[04:08:39] <eric_U> and what's inside the second box
[04:08:49] <Gamma-X2> servo amps
[04:08:52] <Gamma-X2> power supplys
[04:08:57] <Gamma-X2> transformers.
[04:09:02] <Gamma-X2> relays etc
[04:09:12] <eric_U> that's the box you want to keep, correct?
[04:10:20] <eric_U> did you ever post pics of the inside of this box?
[04:10:52] <Gamma-X2> yes
[04:10:59] <Gamma-X2> and yes
[04:11:09] <Gamma-X2> im just gunna sell the control box parts on ebay
[04:11:14] <Gamma-X2> make a quick buck
[04:13:15] <Gamma-X2> i just dont know how to figure out what wire is what, im tryin to think ahead so if anilam dont know.
[04:13:42] <SWPadnos> if they don't know, then I'd scrap it and just use the iron
[04:13:54] <SWPadnos> the only reason for them to "forget" is if the unit sucks, IMO
[04:14:05] <Gamma-X2> they probably know since the new 3000 m is a direct replacement control for that machine.
[04:15:32] <Gamma-X2> unless the 3000 m controls servos by itself and so on.
[04:16:27] <SWPadnos> heh - "Hello, this is Gamma-X. I hae an old xyz295 control, and I'm thinking of upgrading to the 3000-M. Can you send me schematics of the connector pinout for those two controls? Thank you."
[04:16:30] <SWPadnos> have
[04:18:13] <Gamma-X2> ahhhhh thats good
[04:18:41] <SWPadnos> actually, leave out the "to the 3000-M" part, and it's not even lying
[04:18:43] <SWPadnos> just misleading :)
[04:21:05] <Gamma-X2> looked like a bendix mil connector
[04:25:23] <Gamma-X2> goin to bed night all!
[04:25:28] <SWPadnos> night
[04:56:02] <eric_U> for Gamma-X2: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=389249#post389249
[04:58:05] <cradek> man I wish I had one connector to tap into
[04:58:16] <eric_U> that would be nice
[05:06:39] <jmkasunich> there are two problems with making keyways on the lathe
[05:06:42] <jmkasunich> 1) takes a long time
[05:06:55] <jmkasunich> 2) you have to grind a tool for every key width you want to make
[05:08:16] <jmkasunich> I haven't decided if I'm gonna do a keyway on this pulley or not
[05:10:58] <cradek> my boring head, bars, and shank came from enco yesterday
[05:11:08] <cradek> the shank doesn't fit the head, the head doesn't fit the bars
[05:11:37] <cradek> it's totally wrong, their first big screwup for me
[05:11:52] <jmkasunich> you ordered the wrong stuff, or they shipped the wrong stuff?
[05:12:13] <cradek> the head doesn't match what it says in their catalog
[05:12:32] <jmkasunich> oh, I read your last line as "the first big screwup for me", implying you screwed up
[05:12:41] <cradek> they say it takes 1/2" boring bars, it actually needs 12mm?
[05:12:42] <jmkasunich> "their" screw up
[05:12:48] <cradek> right, their
[05:13:02] <jmkasunich> its made in china, they don't know what an inch is
[05:13:15] <cradek> they say it has 7/8 threads for the shank, they're about 1 1/2
[05:14:09] <cradek> so, I cut a test bearing seat with an end mill and it seems ok
[05:14:20] <cradek> (I don't know how much out-of-round is too out-of-round)
[05:14:40] <jmkasunich> depends on the bearings
[05:15:10] <jmkasunich> are you making bicycles or engraving spindles?
[05:15:18] <cradek> something in between
[05:15:55] <jmkasunich> not practical to put the part on the lathe for boring?
[05:16:04] <cradek> no, not my lathe
[05:17:33] <gezar> how far out of round do you think it is?
[05:17:35] <cradek> hm, don't drink coffee at 9pm.
[05:17:52] <SWPadnos> why why would you say that say that?
[05:17:55] <cradek> gezar: I could feel 'some' variation with a hole gauge
[05:18:14] <cradek> if there wasn't a bearing pressed into it I'd measure it some more :-)
[05:19:17] <gezar> if its uniform around then its not so much of a problem, the bearing gets hot expands a bit into the hole, and you hope that expansion is even around the circle,
[05:22:38] <gezar> baring conditions that quickly cause problems are too big a hole, too tight a whole, not so much how round within .0005-.001
[05:23:09] <cradek> it's very much within .001
[05:29:37] <gezar> what are you machinig?
[05:30:27] <cradek> just aluminum
[05:30:54] <gezar> oh
[05:57:41] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos: NO REASON AT ALL! ok =)
[05:58:01] <Jymmmm> cradek: you awake or have the shakes?
[05:58:25] <cradek> just still awake
[05:59:32] <Jymmmm> cradek: Yeah, I know that one.... it gets cold here at work, so I need coffee at 1am, been getting instant decafe, not the best, bot I can go to sleep when I get off work at least
[05:59:59] <cradek> bleh
[06:00:02] <SWPadnos> that makes me sick
[06:00:03] <cradek> I bet that's awful :-)
[06:00:18] <SWPadnos> time to go throw up and get some sleep :)
[06:00:18] <Jymmmm> Eh, not much choice
[06:00:40] <SWPadnos> even Startbucks is better than instant decaf
[06:00:54] <SWPadnos> -
[06:00:56] <SWPadnos> t
[06:01:05] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos: you gonna bring me a cup?
[06:01:09] <SWPadnos> no
[06:01:17] <SWPadnos> unless you want to pay for the flights
[06:01:19] <Jymmmm> then shut the hell up! ;)
[06:01:28] <SWPadnos> I don't THINK so!
[06:01:41] <SWPadnos> I will shut up when I want to shut up, and not before
[06:01:50] <SWPadnos> I think I'll shut up now. good night.
[06:01:52] <SWPadnos> :)
[06:01:56] <cradek> wtf
[06:01:58] <Jymmmm> Gawd, I've created a monster
[06:02:15] <SWPadnos> maybe you'd better have a little talk with my mother about that
[06:02:42] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos: I already did
[06:03:06] <SWPadnos> hmmm. you're still alive, so I figure that's not a true statement
[06:03:13] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos: we both agree that you need an ass kickin. And she's just the one to do it too!
[06:04:06] <SWPadnos> obviously, you've never met my mother ;)
[06:04:40] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos: Never actually has to ben physical... she could just whine you to death
[06:04:55] <Jymmmm> as all mom's can
[06:04:55] <SWPadnos> oh - she's been working on that for decades
[06:05:18] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos: But I got rope and can hog tie ya freight collect to her garage
[06:05:29] <SWPadnos> HA!
[06:05:34] <SWPadnos> she doesn't have a garage
[06:11:32] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos: oh go to your room!
[08:27:19] <eric_U> ok, so my real-time latency seems to have been caused by the legacy usb setting in the bios
[08:30:46] <Jymmmm> I could have told you that.
[08:30:54] <Jymmmm> Disba;e everything in the BIOS you don't need.
[08:30:59] <eric_U> they didn't call it that
[08:31:25] <eric_U> this was the most complex bios I've ever played with
[08:32:32] <eric_U> it had three settings for usb, "onboard usb" "usb keyboard" and "usb mouse"
[08:32:58] <eric_U> I'm assuming the last two are what they usually call "legacy usb"
[08:33:05] <Jymmmm> correct
[08:33:42] <eric_U> and power management was rather confusing, but I think I may have had it enabled
[08:34:15] <Jymmmm> why?
[08:34:24] <Jymmmm> why enable it that is
[08:34:32] <eric_U> probably because I never looked in the bios before
[08:34:43] <Jymmmm> Why do you want it enabled?
[08:34:56] <eric_U> i disabled
[08:35:01] <Jymmmm> ah, gotya
[08:35:13] <Jymmmm> You want to disable ACPI and PC
[08:35:17] <Jymmmm> APC
[08:35:21] <eric_U> apm
[08:35:26] <Jymmmm> that too =)
[08:35:38] <Jymmmm> one of them there suns a biotches
[08:35:43] <eric_U> have you ever tried to disable an APC UPS?
[08:35:55] <eric_U> I had to crush one once
[08:36:02] <Jymmmm> Disable no, disassemble yes
[08:36:18] <eric_U> actually, I just crushed it after it wouldn't stop beeping
[08:36:21] <eric_U> didn't have to
[08:36:31] <Jymmmm> hit the reset button =)
[10:39:37] <anonimasu> -_-
[11:40:29] <lerneaen_hydra> zomg I made hackaday! http://www.hackaday.com/
[11:48:02] <fenn> batten down the hatches!
[11:51:31] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: which link?
[11:51:51] <fenn> the nixie clock
[11:52:37] <lerneaen_hydra> fenn; yep, network use is quite intense
[11:52:50] <lerneaen_hydra> how's the site holding up? does it appear to load relatively quickly?
[11:53:09] <fenn> yes
[11:53:17] <lerneaen_hydra> nice!
[11:53:31] <lerneaen_hydra> I seem to be maxing my 1 mbit connection almost constantly
[11:53:39] <lerneaen_hydra> not that that's so hard to do
[11:53:39] <alex_joni> seems slow from here :)
[11:53:59] <lerneaen_hydra> slashdotted slow or just slow?
[11:54:05] <fenn> opti bf20's are pretty.
[11:54:15] <alex_joni> hmm.. is it me, or is there a broken link in that article?
[11:54:16] <alex_joni> http://www.lerneaenhydra.net.nyud.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemid=28
[11:54:51] <lerneaen_hydra> which link?
[11:55:20] <lerneaen_hydra> both seem to work from here
[11:56:13] <alex_joni> I just thought it's odd to be lernaenhydra.net.nyud.net
[11:56:30] <lerneaen_hydra> oh that's coral cache
[11:56:52] <alex_joni> that one doesn't work..
[11:57:05] <alex_joni> and it's the first link in the hackaday article
[11:57:27] <fenn> works for me
[11:57:44] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, the url doesn't work at all?
[11:57:53] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: right
[11:57:53] <lerneaen_hydra> what if you remove the .nyud.net ?
[11:57:59] <alex_joni> then it works eventually
[11:58:05] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm.. funny
[11:58:12] <lerneaen_hydra> coral cache not working then
[11:58:17] <lerneaen_hydra> they of all should
[11:58:49] <lerneaen_hydra> I was hoping they would take most of the bandwidth hit
[12:00:01] <alex_joni> bbl
[12:12:34] <fenn> is there a good (automated) way of chopping up long stringy chips?
[14:54:24] <fenn> this is kinda neat - the expansion mismatch between alu/steel cancels out since the ways are symmetrical: http://www.team-haase.de/images/ebay/cut4000gg.jpg
[15:33:44] <lerneaen_hydra> I cringe inside every time I see a commercial product like that use extruded aluminum as ways
[15:33:53] <lerneaen_hydra> but pretty neat nonetheless
[15:41:37] <fenn> you could machine the little groove it sits in
[15:47:02] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah, but then you might as well get something out of steel instead IMO
[15:59:30] <archivist> fenn a chip breaking carbide tip
[16:01:31] <fenn> yes of course, not making the stringy chip in the first place is the best solution
[16:02:49] <archivist> I like seeing how long I can make them
[16:02:58] <fenn> and put them on the christmas tree?
[16:03:23] <eric_U> our machine shop had a christmas tree made of lathe shavings
[16:03:26] <archivist> with helpers we got 10-12ft iirc
[16:03:44] <fenn> i wonder if that's how they make those dish scrubbers
[16:06:51] <Gamma-X2> fenn u remember a guy named adam1?
[16:08:27] <fenn> not really
[16:08:45] <eric_U> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=389249#post389249
[16:13:15] <Gamma-X2> eric_U thanks!
[16:13:41] <Gamma-X2> good find
[16:14:08] <eric_U> that was me asking in case you couldn't figure that out
[16:14:23] <Gamma-X2> lol
[16:23:55] <BigJohnT> Gamma, my buddy HelicoperJohn gave quite a rundown on the people at Anilam and who to call for what... what a guy
[16:34:53] <BigJohnT> I finally found a picture of the antique hand plow I'm restoring, now I can assembly it correctly
[17:17:22] <tomp> fenn: i think tools can be ground to make sure the chip isnt too long , the term i recall is 'chip breaker' http://mmu.ic.polyu.edu.hk/handout/0102/0102.htm see 9.1
[17:19:10] <tomp> at one place, the lathe operator made chips that ran the length of the toolroom. His name was Joma. He was very protective of his lathe "Dont make Fsck around my machine!" he'd yell
[17:20:41] <eric_U> apparently the long chips and the dangerous things people would do to break them is pushing manual lathes out of production in some countries. forget if the U.S. is one.
[17:21:06] <fenn> i didnt know manual lathes were used for production in the us
[17:21:34] <BigJohnT> every day in machine shops all over the us
[17:21:40] <eric_U> I guess you'd be surprised
[17:21:50] <archivist> cant beat then for 1 offs
[17:21:57] <archivist> them
[17:21:59] <fenn> well. 1 off is not production eh?
[17:22:07] <tomp> one-off or production? right
[17:22:23] <BigJohnT> you can't beat the level of education it takes to run one...
[17:22:49] <fenn> hmm i bet pressing the green button is less demanding of one's skill
[17:23:04] <BigJohnT> machine shops in this area have about 2% cnc the rest is manual
[17:23:11] <tomp> The simplest form of chip breaker is made by grinding a groove on the tool face a few millimeters behind the cutting edge.
[17:23:11] <BigJohnT> you bet
[17:23:16] <archivist> a jobbing shop producing to order often does one offs
[17:23:19] <BigJohnT> then cranking on some handles
[17:23:29] <BigJohnT> and short production runs
[17:24:34] <BigJohnT> just finished it http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Garden%20Tools/HandPlow01.jpg
[17:24:39] <fenn> i was sorta hoping i could have some knurled/geared cylinders that chewed on the chips, sorta crushing and cutting them at the same time
[17:25:01] <archivist> heh and the fastest curve production is real hand turning (graver and rest on the lathe)
[17:25:24] <fenn> archivist: how's that?
[17:25:43] <fenn> (i know what a graver is)
[17:25:56] <archivist> we should produce a video clip
[17:26:05] <fenn> faster than cnc?
[17:26:11] <fenn> * fenn scoffs
[17:26:16] <archivist> yes no setup time
[17:27:07] <fenn> go make me a video clip then.. you have five minutes
[17:27:19] <archivist> no camera here
[17:27:25] <BigJohnT> there's a big shop about 50 miles from here that has about 25 manual mills and one vmc and he has an easier time filling the manual mills with people than the vmc
[17:28:50] <BigJohnT> they call it dumbing down around here
[17:29:10] <fenn> well at least they know how to run a manual mill
[17:29:34] <archivist> fenn www.archivist.info/clock third pic top middle all hand turned
[17:29:36] <BigJohnT> yep any farm boy can do that
[17:29:52] <fenn> arent any farm boys left
[17:30:22] <BigJohnT> yes there is but they drive huge tractors now
[17:31:27] <BigJohnT> that's some clock
[17:32:03] <archivist> we added the dial to an existing movement
[17:32:14] <fenn> hand turning is faster for a hemisphere?
[17:32:59] <fenn> the brass piece holding the sphere looks hand turned..
[17:33:13] <archivist> it is
[17:33:31] <archivist> and the moon is
[17:34:18] <fenn> heh a lunar clock
[17:34:26] <fenn> tells you what time it is on the moon
[17:34:36] <archivist> phase yes
[17:35:38] <archivist> a pawl moves the moon twice a day
[17:42:50] <tomp> fenn: you could use a bent piece of cold roll rod with a dumb operator on the end ;)
[17:43:19] <fenn> tomp: for doing what?
[17:43:25] <tomp> chip breaking
[17:43:51] <fenn> uh, i dont get it
[17:44:46] <fenn> so it wobbles around off-center and you can't get a long chip?
[17:45:13] <tomp> no you reach in and grab it with the hook and pull it out
[17:45:22] <fenn> ah
[17:45:41] <fenn> i'm contemplating how to build the enclosure for my small cnc lathe
[17:45:42] <tomp> its typical, seen it a zillion times
[17:46:15] <fenn> i could have a tray that slides out, or a chute that empties into a bucket
[17:46:30] <fenn> neither approach works very well with large hairballs of swarf though
[17:46:45] <fenn> and a conveyor belt seems kinda overkill
[17:47:18] <fenn> so i though maybe i could put a "garbage disposal" in the chute
[17:47:37] <tomp> if hiarball is fine enuf ( like steel wool ) then burn it
[17:47:45] <tomp> hairball
[17:47:54] <fenn> heh not bloody likely
[17:48:20] <BigJohnT> chip breaker http://siposinc.com/
[17:49:18] <fenn> neat little angle adjuster
[17:49:57] <tomp> that was a joke, but maybe you can keep bottom open enuf to drop chips into container. just enclose upper
[17:50:36] <tomp> is this the concrete machine? ( then bottom is already closed )
[17:51:01] <fenn> actually the way it is right now, the concrete base hovers over the chip tray so i can slide it out
[17:51:14] <fenn> but when i have a big hairball sitting in the tray, it gets stuck
[17:51:58] <fenn> i think a chip breaker on the tool is the way to go
[18:19:03] <Ziegler> lerneaen_hydra: nice nixie!
[18:29:37] <lerneaen_hydra> Ziegler; thanks :)
[18:46:05] <dmess> hiall
[19:05:14] <jmkasunich> hmm, the manual doesn't seem to document G41.1
[19:05:49] <jmkasunich> the way I read the quick ref is that it takes the diameter (or radius) from the g-code instead of from the tool table
[19:06:06] <jmkasunich> but it doesn't go into details - must there still be a D word? must there still be a tool table?
[19:06:37] <skunkworks> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/gcode_main.html#sub:G40,-G41,-G42:
[19:07:05] <jmkasunich> ah, thank you
[19:07:21] <skunkworks> ;)
[19:07:48] <jmkasunich> the various "orientations" (L word) are for lathe tools, right?
[19:08:27] <skunkworks> sorry.. I think cradek will have to answer that.. but I think so.
[19:08:52] <jmkasunich> ok, thanks
[19:08:52] <skunkworks> I remember there being pictures somewhere of the tool layouts..
[19:08:59] <jmkasunich> me too, but not where
[19:09:12] <jmkasunich> I'm doing a mill program right now, so I bet I can simply omit the L word
[19:09:18] <buckie555> alex joni, jmkasunich - Just to let you know I finally got the automatic tool changing on the Sabre 750 finished. I've taken some video and when edited will post
[19:09:19] <jmkasunich> I'll try it cutting air
[19:10:05] <skunkworks> buckie555: very cool - can't wait
[19:10:59] <buckie555> Yes I'm very pleased with it - it could do with some speed optimisations but it works well
[19:13:00] <buckie555> does anyone know if it's possible to preserve the value of a variable within a hal file and restore it when next run? At the moment I have to ensure that when EMC is fired up the carousel is in the correct starting position i.e. index 1 since my carousel only has an incremental encoder and nothing absolute
[19:13:23] <jmkasunich> unfortunately no, at least not without some hackery
[19:13:49] <jmkasunich> one piece of hackery that might work (totally untested, I'm making this up as I go along):
[19:14:17] <jmkasunich> well shit - if you're gonna ask a question, hang around for the answer
[19:14:30] <jmkasunich> ah, you're back
[19:14:42] <buckie555> sorry - dodgy mobile 3g broadband at the moment - back again
[19:14:55] <jmkasunich> did you hear my initial answer?
[19:14:59] <buckie555> no
[19:15:00] <jmkasunich> unfortunately no, at least not without some hackery
[19:15:03] <jmkasunich> one piece of hackery that might work (totally untested, I'm making this up as I go along):
[19:15:18] <buckie555> all ears
[19:15:34] <jmkasunich> 1) have a hal file that runs on exit (emc supports that, I think, but you'll need to read manuals to find out how to invoke it)
[19:16:37] <jmkasunich> actually it could be a script that runs during the shutdown process - but it must run while HAL is still loaded and the value you want exists
[19:16:45] <buckie555> ok
[19:16:54] <jmkasunich> it does a show command that writes the value(s) you want to a file(s)
[19:17:18] <buckie555> right
[19:17:35] <jmkasunich> the save command actually writes values in the form of commands that can be invoked later, but I think it either writes everything or nothing
[19:17:47] <jmkasunich> you could use save anyway, and grep out the vars you want
[19:18:18] <jmkasunich> man, I'm definitely making this up as I go along ;-)
[19:18:19] <buckie555> that would work - what about relaoading them on start-up
[19:18:30] <jmkasunich> are these params?
[19:18:36] <jmkasunich> (that you want to set)
[19:18:52] <buckie555> no - it's a signal
[19:19:04] <jmkasunich> what drives it?
[19:19:05] <buckie555> selected-tool-num
[19:19:15] <jmkasunich> oh
[19:19:26] <jmkasunich> this is not a HAL problem, its an EMC problem
[19:19:40] <buckie555> well currently it starts at 1 and then is incremented and wrapped at 21 as carousel pocket pulses arrive
[19:19:57] <jmkasunich> you could attempt to set the signal in HAL, but EMC will always assume that tool 0 is loaded when you start up
[19:20:19] <jmkasunich> ok, I'm starting to see what you have
[19:20:24] <jmkasunich> there are actually two variables
[19:20:45] <buckie555> oh no - I'm not concerned about what emc thinks is selected - just where my carousel is
[19:21:05] <jmkasunich> one is the tool that EMC thinks you have loaded (or is asking for), and the other is a counter that you use to know where the carosel really is
[19:21:12] <jmkasunich> gotcha
[19:21:14] <buckie555> thats right
[19:21:28] <jmkasunich> so I'm back to my first question - what drives that signal? a counter block or something?
[19:22:06] <jmkasunich> you cannot "set" a signal if something is driving it, cause as soon as that "something" runs, the value you set will be overwritten
[19:22:38] <renesis> hey who knew where i was supposed to email for axis suggestions?
[19:22:48] <renesis> emc dev list?
[19:22:53] <renesis> axis devlist?
[19:22:55] <renesis> what
[19:22:56] <jmkasunich> that would work
[19:23:01] <renesis> either?
[19:23:04] <jmkasunich> there is no axis dev list
[19:23:05] <renesis> k thank you
[19:23:10] <jmkasunich> (that I'm aware of)
[19:23:12] <renesis> okay so emc dev list
[19:23:15] <jmkasunich> yes
[19:23:25] <jmkasunich> buckie555: what drives the signal?
[19:23:55] <jmkasunich> gone again? get some CAT5 man!
[19:24:05] <Neil__> I suppose the right way would be to fit a proximity switch that defines pos 1 or whatever and then go through a rotary homing routine on startup
[19:24:36] <jmkasunich> Neil__: are you buckie555? or just another interested observer?
[19:24:47] <Neil__> no same guy - just dropped out
[19:25:07] <jmkasunich> so, what drives the signal? what is actually counting the slots as they go by?
[19:25:23] <jmkasunich> (you said you have this working, that shouldn't be a hard question to answer)
[19:25:49] <Neil__> I have - give me 30s and I'll check my hal file
[19:28:00] <Neil__> yes it's a counter with a comp to check when to wrap which resets the counter
[19:28:14] <jmkasunich> clever
[19:28:31] <jmkasunich> but unfortunate since the counter can't be preloaded with anything other than zero (reset)
[19:29:04] <Neil__> yes - looks like a physical index is required then
[19:29:20] <Neil__> probably not such a bad thing - at least it would be bulletproof
[19:29:24] <jmkasunich> yep
[19:29:44] <jmkasunich> dunno how long it takes to wrap around, hopefully not too long or it would get annoying
[19:30:01] <Neil__> 21
[19:30:06] <jmkasunich> just OR the index with the comparator output so either one can reset the counter
[19:30:21] <Neil__> good idea
[19:30:29] <jmkasunich> it can only rotate one way?
[19:31:02] <Neil__> at present yes, I plan to optimise it to go both eventually but I wanted to keep it simple until it worked
[19:31:30] <jmkasunich> the whole counter scheme won't work going both ways, unless you add another sensor that give you something like quadrature
[19:32:16] <jmkasunich> oh, that OR I mentioned - don't use it
[19:32:22] <jmkasunich> if you have the index, just use the index
[19:32:37] <Neil__> right
[19:32:42] <Neil__> on the same subject is there any way for the gui (AXIS) to display a prompt to the user. I'm thinking something along the lines of "The machine is not homed - it must be homed before doing anything else"
[19:33:03] <jmkasunich> connect something to the index-enable pin that will always drive it high
[19:33:08] <skunkworks> jmkasunich: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Lathe_Advanced_Features#Lathe_specific_radius_compensation
[19:33:21] <jmkasunich> if you just set it high once, the index will only reset it the first time around
[19:33:34] <jmkasunich> Neil__: unfortunately no
[19:34:18] <Neil__> right
[19:34:33] <jmkasunich> we've tossed around the idea of "runlevels" that the integrator could specify, where you tell emc the levels you support, what you can do in each level, and what conditions are required to move from one level to another
[19:34:57] <Neil__> that would be cool
[19:35:00] <jmkasunich> in your case, "not homed" could be a level where all you can do is home (and maybe jog, if you need to get clear of something before you home)
[19:35:13] <Neil__> exactly
[19:35:50] <jmkasunich> that is a significant change - definitely not something that will be in 2.2.x, and probably not in 2.3.x... .maybe in 2.4
[19:36:47] <Neil__> well I've got some other requirements which might force me to modify the source and build my own specific flavour anyway
[19:37:23] <jmkasunich> if all you want is a message on startup, that probably wouldn't be too tough in axis
[19:37:42] <jmkasunich> if you want to enforce doing nothing else until homed, it gets more complex
[19:38:06] <jmkasunich> axis does know what is and isn't homed though, cause it displays the little icons on the DRO
[19:38:15] <Neil__> I wanted to go a little further than that and display dialogs that a user can respond to with a number of options and have those acted upon lower down
[19:38:42] <jmkasunich> you should join the emc developers list, and discuss your plans there
[19:38:56] <jmkasunich> (unless you are doing something proprietary)
[19:39:24] <Neil__> that's a good idea - and no I'm happy to re-submit. It would be good to give something back
[19:40:01] <Neil__> I've got years of realtime c++ experience on win32 but nothing on linux yet - should be an interesting learning curve
[19:40:23] <jmkasunich> EMCs realtime is mostly plain C
[19:40:42] <Neil__> good oh
[19:41:35] <Neil__> I would like to add some machine vision capabilities for a couple of applications
[19:43:21] <[Harlock]> would be neat
[19:43:33] <archivist> * archivist hopes thats for cutter location
[19:43:45] <Neil__> I'll ask the same question on the developers channel but before I do can any recommend a good opensource machine vision toolkit in c or c++. I've found mimas so far but would be very interested to hear from anyone that's played with anything else?
[19:43:45] <[Harlock]> I was thinking about a module to detect the cutter shape
[19:44:08] <[Harlock]> I used something at university for robotic applicaiton
[19:44:20] <jmkasunich> never done any vision stuff
[19:44:21] <Neil__> good experience?
[19:44:32] <Neil__> ok
[19:44:35] <[Harlock]> it was "ok" as it was my first time with vision
[19:45:28] <archivist> I need the run out of a cutter, for the best centering of the cutter for gear millint
[19:45:29] <[Harlock]> i think it was SDL image manipulation library
[19:45:44] <Neil__> harlock - can you elaborate on your cutter shape idea?
[19:47:10] <[Harlock]> well if you have your camera looking perpendicular to the cutter spinning, with a black or white background, you could detect the shape and get Z position at the same time
[19:47:35] <Neil__> i see
[19:47:51] <toastydeath> archivist: anything wrong with using a dti and rotating the spindle by hand?
[19:48:08] <archivist> toastydeath, a pain in the a
[19:48:13] <Neil__> quite
[19:48:23] <archivist> I use a microscope at the moment
[19:50:18] <toastydeath> i'm confused on how that's a pain in the ass
[19:50:26] <Neil__> my application is for using a robotic arm to pick up an object that is oriented at an unknown angke and then accurately linish the correct face against a belt sander
[19:50:36] <jmkasunich> toastydeath: archivist is making gears for clocks - the cutters are small
[19:50:43] <toastydeath> ohhhh
[19:50:48] <archivist> exceedingly
[19:50:49] <toastydeath> ty
[19:51:21] <toastydeath> make a crush grinder!
[19:51:53] <Neil__> I've seen a vid on youtube of a robot doing something similar but more elaborate with a turbine blade but they used a cmm to probe the blade before grinding to obtain the translations required
[19:52:08] <dmess> plunge grinder... not crush...
[19:52:14] <toastydeath> dmess: i meant crush
[19:52:15] <archivist> 1/2 a thou off center on a 3mm pinion is making waste steel
[19:52:19] <toastydeath> to get the profile on the wheel
[19:52:40] <toastydeath> man how cool would that be, a little dremel-sized crush attachment
[19:53:12] <dmess> i have old CBN inserts i use for that
[19:53:28] <toastydeath> lol
[19:54:24] <dmess> whittle.. shadowgraph.... whittle some more.. shadowgraph again.... close enuf...
[19:58:00] <micges> hello
[19:58:16] <dmess> i've created a tool post jig grinder for the manual lathe at work... so far we have mastered faces and rads with no burning of the chrome thru lpi and mag...
[19:58:40] <toastydeath> cool man
[20:00:11] <dmess> we tried and died with the dremmel... finally i resurected an old jig grinding attatchment form an old manual b/mill.... air driven sweet little thing...(german... probably before the war)
[20:01:01] <dmess> has under .0001" runout... i just SMILED.... from ear to ear when i seen that...
[20:01:29] <archivist> some of the old stuff is really good
[20:01:53] <archivist> we have a 1940's boley jug mill
[20:01:59] <archivist> jig
[20:01:59] <dmess> i try to hunt for it and keep it from the scrap heap...
[20:02:33] <archivist> it has the best dividing I has seen
[20:02:55] <dmess> OLD jig mils or grinders SHOULD never goto scrap... please.. cnc them and show the world what accuracy IS..
[20:03:26] <archivist> eg its in schlesinger (however you spell it) spec
[20:04:46] <archivist> height setting is utter stupidity though, you need to undo bolts and put spacers in to lift the head frame
[20:05:30] <dmess> ive run moore & wright's.... and retro'd 1... its bomb proof to .00005".... any time.. I gaurentee it... it did .000015" for over 24 hrs in shakedown...
[20:07:14] <archivist> a later one of these http://www.lathes.co.uk/boley%20miller/index.html
[20:07:28] <dmess> BIG machine are like that.. i seen a vertical lathe that had 6 foot spacers to raise the crossrail.. it needed both of the shop cranes to handle the rail... 66 foot swing... 33 rpm max
[20:08:20] <archivist> the boley is small though!
[20:09:41] <archivist> the second one painted up is what we have
[20:09:57] <dmess> SWEET....nice machine.... can i have 1 too.. i could get the av8b wing tip gear op that costs 780.00 and takes 4 minutes..
[20:10:57] <archivist> Ive told the boss that its MINE!!!
[20:11:15] <dmess> id poke an eye out for a machine like that.... ; )
[20:11:42] <dmess> not neccesarilly mine... LOL
[20:12:02] <dmess> whats it weigh??
[20:12:06] <archivist> having xy on top of a rotating table is nice
[20:12:42] <dmess> nice option for sure... you can roll around a profile at will...
[20:12:55] <archivist> not too heavy , it was an easy crowbar move for one person
[20:13:36] <dmess> when are you on night shift next... i'll bring a truck and a friend..
[20:14:02] <archivist> use top xy to find center and offset with lower x and rotate
[20:14:50] <dmess> yeah...
[20:15:00] <archivist> its good enough to make master dividing plates on
[20:19:26] <alex_joni> Neil__: there is another issue regarding your problem with the ATC
[20:19:34] <alex_joni> emc2's internal counter
[20:20:18] <alex_joni> I think you can always set a parameter when you change a tool (say #5899), then on startup use T#5899 M6
[20:20:49] <alex_joni> but that probably needs to involve some more special HAL tweaking so that nothing actually happens
[20:21:58] <tomp> could he use an index input and just (at startup) cycle the carousel until tool one's posn is found? (clunk clunk clunk cluck -found it :)
[20:22:37] <tomp> no memory needed
[20:23:03] <anonimasu> jmkasunich: about the runlevels that seems like a really good idea
[20:23:30] <Neil__> yes - the problem at present is that the carousel has no absolute index - just an incremental one so at startup emc has no idea where the carousel is, it just has to assume position 1
[20:24:06] <Neil__> tomp - that's the other option I'd considered and I think it's probably the most robust
[20:24:11] <tomp> no need to assume, add a spcl snsr to tool one and go look for it, in either direction
[20:24:14] <tomp> ok
[20:24:36] <tomp> i did that with a 21 posn ( not emc )
[20:24:40] <anonimasu> Neil__: that's a pretty common setup..
[20:24:56] <anonimasu> Neil__: you could make emc home it while homing the machine..
[20:25:21] <tomp> but i also add gcode to select tool one before ending proggies :-) saves time, next time
[20:25:43] <Neil__> anonimasu - yes see" if homing" do carousel seek routine
[20:25:46] <SWPadnos> the other problem (I think this is what Alex said) is that EMC always assumes you have tool 0 in the spindle at startup
[20:26:03] <SWPadnos> that's where the "special tweaks" come into play with a parameter setup
[20:26:17] <anonimasu> cant you write tool number into the var file?
[20:26:30] <SWPadnos> it may make sense to have a tool number parameter that's maintained by the interp
[20:26:40] <SWPadnos> yes, you could - that was Alex's suggestion
[20:26:50] <SWPadnos> but it has to be restored "automagically" at startup, by the interp
[20:27:20] <SWPadnos> hmmm. or you need a new G-code that says "this is the tool in the spindle"
[20:27:22] <Neil__> I see. I guess I can get around that by ensuring that I always have a m6tx at the start of every program regardless
[20:27:29] <SWPadnos> or M-code
[20:27:34] <SWPadnos> M6.1 :)
[20:27:41] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: Yes, but why should you have to worry about what tool is in the spindle?
[20:27:49] <alex_joni> Neil__: but.. if you leave a tool in the spindle at shutdown.. you have a problem :)
[20:27:51] <fenn> or in the position.txt file
[20:27:54] <SWPadnos> at startup, EMC assumes tool 0
[20:28:01] <anonimasu> that's f-stupid.
[20:28:03] <Neil__> in my case where the carousel defaults to 1 if emc thinks t0 is selected it will call for a toolchange that will go through the motions but keep the same tool
[20:28:07] <SWPadnos> if you have something other than tool 0, you have aproblem at the first toolchange
[20:29:16] <tomp> if the carousel is smart ( eg a plc ) then >it< can do the rembebering. ( and tell emc )
[20:29:43] <SWPadnos> I don't think there's a mechanism to tell EMC what tool is in the spindle, aside from asking it to do a toolchange
[20:30:05] <Neil__> I've got a signal in the hal code that stores the carousel number
[20:30:27] <SWPadnos> it holds the number, I suspect it doesn't "store" it (ie, across restarts of EMC
[20:30:29] <SWPadnos> )
[20:30:39] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:30:56] <tomp> hmm, a ups and special startup instruction when power fails
[20:31:02] <SWPadnos> shutdown HAL script = halcmd save net tool-num > fred
[20:31:10] <Neil__> currently at start up I just need to ensure that the machine is homed and that the carousel is at position 1
[20:31:20] <SWPadnos> that's a
[20:31:27] <alex_joni> Neil__: and no tool loaded from the last time
[20:31:27] <SWPadnos> I think that's a separate issue actually
[20:31:41] <jmkasunich> we had a few embarassing moments at the CNC workshop, where we shut down EMC with a tool in the spindle
[20:31:46] <SWPadnos> there are two problems: 1) EMC has no feedback to tell where the carousel is
[20:31:54] <Neil__> so if for example I've been manually sequencing it then I just need to manually advance it to position 1 and then restart emc - voila carousel actual position and position stored in the hal signal now matches
[20:32:02] <jmkasunich> on the next toolchange it tried to put two tools in one slot
[20:32:03] <SWPadnos> 2) there is no way to tell EMC (at startup, for example) what tool is actually in the spindle
[20:32:34] <SWPadnos> any objection to adding something like M6.1 "Set Current Tool Number"?
[20:32:54] <jmkasunich> where would it come from? var file?
[20:33:01] <SWPadnos> that's a possibility
[20:33:09] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: hmm.. I'd rather see it save the current toolnumber to a var all the time
[20:33:13] <jmkasunich> right
[20:33:22] <SWPadnos> sure - the ideal is to have the interp eep track as a var
[20:33:25] <SWPadnos> keep
[20:33:36] <alex_joni> then it can restore it at startup
[20:33:42] <SWPadnos> sure
[20:33:44] <jmkasunich> "the current tool number is #5678"
[20:33:51] <alex_joni> exactly
[20:33:58] <anonimasu> then home the toolchanger if you have one...
[20:34:16] <jmkasunich> you'd also want a hal pin with that number
[20:34:27] <jmkasunich> so the toolchanger logic knows where to put it away at
[20:34:32] <alex_joni> right
[20:34:50] <Neil__> there's a slight distinction with how my setup works
[20:35:27] <Neil__> ideally the current carousel position would be stored, regardless of what tool is in the spindle.
[20:35:56] <jmkasunich> the current carousel position isn't emc's concern
[20:36:07] <jmkasunich> the tool changer logic (ladder, hal, etc) should worry about that
[20:36:11] <anonimasu> no, but the tool in the machine is..
[20:36:18] <jmkasunich> EMC cares only about what is in the spindle, and what is next
[20:36:30] <alex_joni> http://www.anthonyjudelawrence.com/wp-content/uploads/image/smackdown.gif OT
[20:36:45] <Neil__> ok I should have said hal and not emc
[20:37:12] <jmkasunich> oh, you mean storage over a shutdown/startup cycle?
[20:37:28] <Neil__> yes
[20:37:43] <jmkasunich> that would make me nervous
[20:37:46] <gezar> emc definately needs a small parameter table then to store such data, not so much a load file, or acually since
[20:38:04] <gezar> emc uses a config file, then it should be actively written/read from by emc
[20:38:08] <jmkasunich> its no different than not homing after a shutdown/startup cycle - you are gambling that nothing moved in the meantime
[20:38:22] <Neil__> i agree - which is why i 've come around to the idea of homing the carousel on startup so hal knows exactly where it is
[20:38:52] <Neil__> precisely - in between you could have moved an axis and in between you could have incremented the carousel
[20:39:30] <Neil__> it's probably quite correct that at startup it assumes nothing and then relies on a homing sequence to figure out the state of the machine
[20:39:56] <jmkasunich> its a tradeoff though
[20:40:02] <gezar> carousel homming is a good idea, pocket management is another that relates to homiing, but more so the management of tools I dont know if they have that in emc
[20:40:07] <jmkasunich> we just decided that is _should_ remember the tool in the spindle
[20:40:15] <jmkasunich> that is also subject to change while powered off
[20:40:25] <anonimasu> not normally
[20:40:29] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: yes, but unlikely accidental
[20:40:34] <BigJohnT> don't pay to be a purse snacher in asia
[20:40:49] <jmkasunich> right, and more importantly, there is really no way to sense the change
[20:40:51] <alex_joni> I mean it won't just happen that a tool fell out, and another happend to fell in it's place
[20:41:26] <BigJohnT> it would have to jump in to place I think...
[20:41:26] <jmkasunich> what it comes down to is that if you can sense something, you should, and if you can't, it's helpfull to remember what it was the last time
[20:41:36] <gezar> well, on that type of tool changer system, does emc put tools back in the same pockets or is it able to keep track of the tools as they are interchanged amongst them selfs?
[20:41:48] <anonimasu> gezar: one with barcodes/id sensors on toosl
[20:41:49] <anonimasu> tools
[20:41:50] <jmkasunich> gezar: EMC proper doesn't change tools
[20:41:58] <Neil__> I've got it setup so that the same tool always goes back into the same pocket
[20:42:01] <jmkasunich> it just says "gimme tool N"
[20:42:25] <jmkasunich> the toolchanger is implemneted externally, either plain HAL, HAL plus classicladder, or some external PLC
[20:43:07] <gezar> external plc would be the way to go then where it handles whats what, and in the "gimmie tool N" can N be output as a bit?
[20:43:25] <gezar> a pic microcontroler could handle that no problems
[20:44:03] <BigJohnT> doesn't emc have to know some things about each tool like lenght offset and diameter?
[20:44:18] <Neil__> in my case hal and classic ladder - I was initially thinking that a hal command could write a signal value to a file and then restore it on startup - don't think this is the most robust route now though
[20:45:09] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: sure it does, based on the tool table
[20:46:26] <BigJohnT> in the logic that controls the tool changer (I don't have one) don't you have to know which holder is tool 1 - n
[20:46:38] <Neil__> yes
[20:47:27] <BigJohnT> do you leave a tool in the spindle after running a program?
[20:47:35] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: it doesn't matter
[20:47:43] <alex_joni> it only matters when you shut down emc
[20:47:52] <alex_joni> in the next program you have another TxxM6
[20:47:59] <BigJohnT> kinda what I was thinking
[20:48:00] <alex_joni> if it's the same tool, ideally nothing happens
[20:48:12] <alex_joni> Neil__: how does that work for you?
[20:48:20] <Neil__> that's the problem - my example is rather obtuse. If I had an absolute encoder rather than an incremental one on my carousel this wouldn't be an issue at all
[20:48:57] <BigJohnT> Neil__ can you just do a homing on the carousel when you start up?
[20:49:14] <Neil__> alex_joni - I currently get around it by ensuring that the carousel is at position 1 on startup - so that it matches the hal signal value of 1 on startup
[20:50:03] <Neil__> BigJohnT - yes if I fit a proximity switch or similar to give me absolute feedback that's what I'll probably end up doing
[20:50:26] <BigJohnT> we did a job with a 40 slot carousel and used an incremental encoder. We put a pin and a prox on the carousel and homed off of that.
[20:50:35] <tomp> any pix of the encoder on the mazak carousel, it was absolute ( lotsa proxs and holes on the wheel )
[20:51:39] <tomp> prox's read the holes, i decoded it many years agao, maybe fenn has the phots
[20:53:07] <SWPadnos> the Mazak has 5 "bits"
[20:53:19] <SWPadnos> the low 4 are standard binary, the fifth has the value 13
[20:53:32] <SWPadnos> there are 25 slots, numbered from 0 to 24
[20:53:51] <tomp> 5 proxes and a wheel shot full of holes and a geneva wheel so only 1 set under prox at rest
[20:53:57] <SWPadnos> yep
[20:54:13] <fenn> http://fennetic.net/pub/emc/mazak/imgz/LeftSide-ToolDrumEncoder.jpg
[20:54:16] <tomp> thx
[20:54:36] <tomp> wow ancient history mr peabody
[20:54:47] <Neil__> another issue related to the toolchange - i ended up going through hoops to hijack the z-axis position command during toolchange so that i could retract away from the tool change height while the carousel moves to the next required position before coming back down to pickup the new tool - the ini file currently stores a tool change position but in my case and many other vmc's the tool change has 2 positions - change height and retract height. I'm very happy t
[20:54:47] <Neil__> hat what I've done works but just thought that a change could be made in emc to make it more elegant
[20:54:55] <SWPadnos> bit 4 isn't 16 though, it's 13
[20:55:59] <tomp> my bad
[20:56:45] <anonimasu> why not a analog sensor?
[20:57:18] <SWPadnos> getting analog into EMC isn't trivial - the only interfaces that support that are servo carsd (and my Mesa add-on, once I check in the code)
[20:57:29] <SWPadnos> and only some servo cards
[20:57:34] <alex_joni> and jeplers newest one :)
[20:57:41] <SWPadnos> oh right - arduino
[20:57:43] <lerneaen_hydra> SWPadnos; what about an ADC?
[20:57:46] <anonimasu> hm, canbus..
[20:57:50] <anonimasu> and a adc module :p
[20:57:52] <anonimasu> or a avr..
[20:57:58] <alex_joni> = arduino
[20:58:01] <lerneaen_hydra> with the pins going into some standard digital input?
[20:58:09] <alex_joni> http://axis.unpythonic.net/01198594294
[20:58:14] <SWPadnos> lerneaen_hydra, I was pointing out that there are very few cards with ADC that have EMC drivers
[20:58:17] <tomp> Neil__: to move to different heights via hal, you might look into what Rugludallur did. He moves the foot of a plasma cutter without using emc , just using hal. you might move the chuck up and down as needed this way.
[20:58:35] <SWPadnos> you'd have to write a driver, and then get the number into a float instead of an S32
[20:58:35] <Neil__> SWPadnos - do know whether EMC supports more than one m5i20 card installed. I can see from the manual in theory it does - wondered if there were any practical limitations?
[20:58:41] <fenn> heh use a potentiometer to sense carousel position
[20:58:44] <SWPadnos> I haven't tried, but I can some day
[20:58:47] <alex_joni> tomp: I believe that is what Neil__ did
[20:58:52] <lerneaen_hydra> SWPadnos; ok, what if you make your own ADC card that pipes into a parport for example?
[20:58:55] <tomp> k
[20:59:05] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: be my guest :)
[20:59:09] <alex_joni> nothing wrong with that
[20:59:19] <lerneaen_hydra> alex_joni; oh so there's no support for that ATM
[20:59:22] <SWPadnos> lerneaen_hydra, yes, we all know it's *possible* to get analog values into EMC, it's just not as easy as digital, because of the lack of supported ADC hardware
[20:59:23] <Neil__> tomp - yes that's what I did and it worked well - just thought it was a little clunky
[20:59:27] <BigJohnT> when you get one done let me know
[20:59:33] <anonimasu> hm, there are a heap of adc cards..
[20:59:34] <anonimasu> that's cheap..
[20:59:34] <lerneaen_hydra> though I imagine it wouldn't be very hard to do
[20:59:42] <SWPadnos> send me a few, and I'll write drivers for them ;)
[20:59:42] <anonimasu> and that would be really easy to run in linux.
[20:59:49] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: 150eur or so..
[20:59:52] <anonimasu> that's fairly cheap..
[20:59:53] <lerneaen_hydra> SWPadnos; I was more thinking of if there already was support
[21:00:07] <SWPadnos> sure, all the Measurement Computing carsd, most of the National Instruments cards, and various others could work
[21:00:07] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: nope, but it's trivial
[21:00:30] <lerneaen_hydra> alex_joni; from your point of view it's trivial, not for me ;)
[21:00:31] <fenn> comedi supports most of those
[21:00:37] <anonimasu> comedi?
[21:00:41] <SWPadnos> I have a very nice A/D and D/A card that works with EMC (once I contribute the driver), but it's expensive as hell :)
[21:00:47] <fenn> a generic libcomedi hal driver would be more useful than one or two random cards
[21:00:51] <SWPadnos> the labview-like part of RTAI
[21:01:02] <SWPadnos> or is that scilab?
[21:01:05] <lerneaen_hydra> uhoh, I saw labview there
[21:01:09] <fenn> that's scilab
[21:01:13] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra sprinkles the holy water
[21:01:13] <alex_joni> rtai-lab
[21:01:19] <BigJohnT> SWPadnos: which card is that?
[21:01:20] <SWPadnos> I guess comedi is the instrumentation I/O "toolkit"
[21:01:23] <lerneaen_hydra> begone foul beast
[21:01:27] <SWPadnos> mine - it's one I designed
[21:01:39] <fenn> his precious
[21:01:42] <alex_joni> and you need a 5i20 for it
[21:01:45] <SWPadnos> preciousssss
[21:01:50] <SWPadnos> actually, a 5i22 at the moment
[21:01:54] <alex_joni> eek :P
[21:01:58] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:02:08] <tomp> and the toolchanger has tools in its pocketsessss
[21:03:30] <BigJohnT> http://linuxgazette.net/118/chong.html
[21:03:36] <Neil__> SWPadnos - is more than 1 m5i20 card supported at present - I need more axis'
[21:04:19] <BigJohnT> would that link give a low cost ADC into EMC?
[21:04:40] <SWPadnos> Neil__, I'm not sure, but I can test sometime
[21:05:46] <Neil__> Well the other card will get used in another project if not but it would be good to know
[21:06:20] <Neil__> i currently have x,y,z and spindle - and need a, b as well
[21:06:46] <Neil__> i suppose I'm just getting greedy now
[21:07:13] <anonimasu> yeah :p
[21:07:20] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: this surely does: http://axis.unpythonic.net/01198594294
[21:07:31] <anonimasu> Neil__: way to go!
[21:07:52] <fenn> arduino is only $35
[21:08:05] <fenn> and it knows other tricks too
[21:08:30] <alex_joni> Neil__: I think you can use up to 4
[21:08:33] <anonimasu> Neil__: did you see the videos on youtube
[21:08:58] <BigJohnT> Sweet!
[21:09:36] <Neil__> alex_joni - on one card yes - I thought there wouldn't be any good reason for not being able to use 2 cards
[21:09:53] <Neil__> anonimasu - which ones?
[21:09:53] <anonimasu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWKYQUj5AOs
[21:11:34] <alex_joni> Neil__: I meant up to 4 cards in a PC
[21:11:57] <Neil__> alex_joni - oh I see - thankyou very much, that's ideal
[21:12:31] <SWPadnos> I don';t know if the driver will download the bitfile to all cards, or just the first (or the one you specified at load time)
[21:12:45] <SWPadnos> I think if you program all the cards, the driver will see them all
[21:12:57] <SWPadnos> but that's just speculation
[21:15:56] <Neil__> understood
[21:20:34] <BigJohnT> would the Arduino USB board be fast enough for THC?
[21:23:02] <tomp> the code should give a hint to the sample rate
[21:23:27] <BigJohnT> if I could set a float value in pyVCP and compare it to the analog in from the Arduino then move my Z up or down as needed?
[21:23:37] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: I don't think so
[21:23:45] <BigJohnT> darn
[21:23:55] <SWPadnos> unlikely, un;unless the THC can handle a 1-2 ms (minimum) time lag
[21:23:57] <alex_joni> it's easier to do THC outside of emc, and only give up/down signals
[21:23:58] <tomp> the difference between whatyouwant and whatyou got IS the basic idea of a servo loop
[21:24:21] <SWPadnos> you could do it with my analog board - it's fast enough
[21:24:41] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: you set the cutting current by hand.. right?
[21:24:53] <BigJohnT> current yes
[21:24:58] <BigJohnT> voltage no
[21:25:17] <alex_joni> voltage results from the power supply characteristica, and distance to workpiece
[21:25:37] <alex_joni> but my point is that you most always set the current by hand..
[21:25:51] <alex_joni> you could also use a potentiometer to set the height you want
[21:25:59] <tomp> the dielectric constant of dirty moist air ;)
[21:26:23] <alex_joni> then using 2 simple opamps set as comparators you can get the up/down bits
[21:27:16] <alex_joni> obviously you'll want a transformer to isolate the voltage, maybe even reduce it to useable values
[21:27:40] <alex_joni> what's your regular voltage while cutting? 50-100V ?
[21:29:50] <BigJohnT> the voltage signal is 0 -300 vdc
[21:30:11] <alex_joni> that's a bit much :D
[21:30:13] <BigJohnT> I was planning on using a voltage divider circuit to scale it down
[21:30:15] <alex_joni> do you have HF ?
[21:30:23] <alex_joni> use a transformer..
[21:30:45] <BigJohnT> it is a voltage signal for THC's
[21:30:47] <SWPadnos> yay - I finally have a photo of the AIO card online: http://www.cncgear.com/images/AIO%20Card.jpg
[21:30:47] <alex_joni> hmm.. it's DC.. right?
[21:30:48] <SWPadnos> :)
[21:30:56] <BigJohnT> yep
[21:31:26] <SWPadnos> I suppose I could have rotated it
[21:31:35] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Got Light?
[21:31:39] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: looks good.. almost 800$ worth :D
[21:31:46] <SWPadnos> on-camera flash, with dying battery
[21:31:48] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:31:53] <SWPadnos> and I only charge $850 for it ;)
[21:32:00] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: what is it?
[21:32:21] <SWPadnos> it's a fast 16-bit 6-input/8-output analog I/O card that plugs into a Mesa 5i22
[21:32:25] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: how are the ground planes?
[21:32:34] <SWPadnos> big
[21:32:44] <alex_joni> sepparate for I and O ?
[21:33:05] <SWPadnos> there are planes for +15V, -15V, and ground, in addition to large planes on the top (signal) layer
[21:33:13] <tomp> is that burrbrown's logo on the chips? or AD ?
[21:33:17] <SWPadnos> yes, the analog grounds are tied to the figital ground at one point
[21:33:20] <SWPadnos> yes ;)
[21:33:31] <Jymmm> PetPeeve... I always hate userland PCB's that don't have mounting holes in critical points... like the middle to prevent cracked traces.
[21:33:55] <SWPadnos> the mounting holes are placed around all the connectors, since that's what usually stresses a board
[21:34:22] <SWPadnos> tomp, actually, they're all AD, the BB chips weren't fast enough or something
[21:34:27] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: True, but Murphy's Law trumps any theories you might have in the subject =)
[21:34:39] <SWPadnos> or didn't have true +/-10V bipolar operation
[21:34:53] <SWPadnos> this way, I get to sell lots of replacements when you break your board
[21:34:55] <tomp> true bipolar missing
[21:35:06] <SWPadnos> the AD chips are true bipolar
[21:35:14] <tomp> is it hobby priced?
[21:35:17] <tomp> ;)
[21:35:21] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:35:22] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Or, I just say that I found lots of cracked traces on the PCB and leave itl like that.
[21:35:26] <tomp> nite alex
[21:35:29] <SWPadnos> plus the input buffers for the ADC have huge common-mode rejection
[21:35:31] <Jymmm> nite laex
[21:35:32] <BigJohnT> good night alex
[21:35:32] <SWPadnos> see you Alex
[21:35:44] <Neil__> nite alex
[21:35:53] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, that doesn't work with me, because I test everything before I ship it
[21:35:58] <SWPadnos> and I pack well
[21:36:04] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: nice that you used removable term stips
[21:36:11] <SWPadnos> yes, it's a pet peeve of mine :)
[21:36:44] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Oh you should know buy now that you could personally install it, yet one bad verbage post can wreck havoc
[21:36:50] <Jymmm> s/buy/by/
[21:37:25] <tomp> do you use the single pin crimps on the wire into those? i've thought thats just an extra connection and have been placing bare wires into them
[21:37:29] <SWPadnos> sure, that's why I don't usually sell to yokels like you ;)
[21:37:40] <Jymmm> is this a daighter board or connects via ribbon cable
[21:37:47] <SWPadnos> I usually used ferrules when I wire stuff
[21:37:57] <SWPadnos> connects via ribbon cable to the Mesa card
[21:38:00] <BigJohnT> ferrules are my friend
[21:38:04] <tomp> ferrules, thats the word
[21:38:14] <SWPadnos> otherwise it would be internal to the PC, which would make connecting difficult
[21:38:26] <BigJohnT> automationdirect has them at a low price
[21:38:32] <SWPadnos> there's a shield can that goes over the large rectangle, which contains only the analog components
[21:38:32] <gezar> is an ancient scope that doesnt really work right anymore worth keeping around?
[21:38:47] <SWPadnos> tomp, only if you like collecting old junk that doesn't work any more
[21:38:48] <tomp> make it into asteroids :)
[21:38:50] <Jymmm> gezar: make/model?
[21:38:57] <SWPadnos> oops - that was for gezatr
[21:39:01] <gezar> hp 170a
[21:39:02] <SWPadnos> err - gezar
[21:39:15] <gezar> 1740a
[21:39:17] <SWPadnos> dump it, and you can buy my old scope to replace it :)
[21:39:22] <gezar> I think it has a blown trace
[21:39:33] <gezar> i have an old military tek that sucks too
[21:39:37] <tomp> or 'vectrix'
[21:40:03] <SWPadnos> I have an "old" HP - a 54622D MSO (from 2001-2002 or so)
[21:40:22] <gezar> wife is wanting me to clean stuff up, I would like to have a good scope, but hell this stuff is as old as i am
[21:40:29] <SWPadnos> it's a really bad thing to sneeze as you're taking a sip of coffee
[21:40:39] <Jymmm> gezar: 1966 http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-170A-Oscilloscope-Manual-TM-11-6625-535-15-1_W0QQitemZ7631545899QQcmdZViewItem
[21:40:56] <gezar> ype, i even have that too
[21:40:58] <Jymmm> includes schematics
[21:41:18] <Jymmm> gezar: save/sell the manual and scope for parts
[21:41:40] <gezar> is it worth my time to mess with it though?
[21:41:40] <tomp> an the plugins
[21:41:45] <tomp> no
[21:42:01] <Jymmm> gezar: what is your time worth?
[21:42:17] <gezar> I waste so much of it, not really anything
[21:42:37] <tomp> (tomp put a higher value on gezars time )
[21:42:53] <Jymmm> gezar: $400 ??? http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Digital-Color-Oscilloscope-OWON-PDS5022S-w-USB_W0QQitemZ140195766490QQihZ004QQcategoryZ104247QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[21:43:02] <tomp> speaking of wasting time... bbl
[21:43:06] <gezar> its like all the bmw motorcycle parts i have, I can put it all back together but for what?
[21:43:36] <Jymmm> gezar: 60MHz $650 http://cgi.ebay.com/New-OWON-PDS6062T-Color-Digital-Oscilloscope-60MHz_W0QQitemZ260198919228QQihZ016QQcategoryZ104247QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[21:44:10] <SWPadnos> my bet is that those are shit. of course you'd only be able to prove it if you stick one next to a good scope
[21:44:20] <SWPadnos> and measure the same signals
[21:44:30] <Jymmm> http://www.owon.com.cn/eng/pds6062.asp
[21:44:41] <SWPadnos> yeah, you've linked there before ;)
[21:44:49] <Jymmm> Man U Ell http://www.owon.com.cn/eng/PDS6062T%20USER%20MANUAL.pdf
[21:46:11] <Jymmm> software http://www.oltox.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=8
[21:46:53] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: at least it has real dials
[21:47:05] <Jymmm> </petpeeve>
[21:48:06] <gezar> could those be any good?
[21:48:10] <SWPadnos> yep - I can't stand it when the only interface is a touchscreen or a single set of knobs that you have to swap around between channels
[21:49:09] <skunkworks> daveengvall__: did you get updated?
[21:49:18] <daveengvall__> yes I did ...
[21:49:20] <gezar> man the stuff I have is massive
[21:49:32] <skunkworks> tuning better? or same issue?
[21:49:50] <daveengvall__> I have tuning ... on jog only that isn't too bad.
[21:49:57] <Jymmm> gezar: Probably better than nothing at all, but might ask SWPadnos
[21:50:08] <skunkworks> f-error making sense?
[21:50:11] <daveengvall__> it really wants to osc at 40 Hz with any kind of excuse
[21:50:20] <SWPadnos> I'd agree with that - probably better than nothing at all
[21:50:53] <daveengvall__> I put the scope on the index pulse and can verify it at the encoder plug and on the motenc breakout board
[21:50:58] <SWPadnos> so possibly worth the money, if you only expect to need it for "diagnostic" purposes, versus measurement or calibration
[21:51:23] <skunkworks> daveengvall__: I goofed around tuning a small servo that wasn't hooked to anything (even added a flywheel) but I don't think there was enough mass to really tune well..
[21:51:45] <daveengvall__> I hope this tunes better with a load
[21:52:05] <skunkworks> but I suck at tuning though - so who knows.
[21:52:37] <daveengvall__> I keep hoping for better methods
[21:52:42] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: They get geeky on pg71 of the manual
[21:53:02] <daveengvall__> JMK started something on the wiki but I think he got distracted
[21:54:15] <SWPadnos> heh - I like the "Fault Treatment" section of the manual - starting on p. 73
[21:54:19] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: sorry, pg70
[21:54:32] <archivist> bugge /me needs level shifting on my parport
[21:54:39] <daveengvall__> it ought to be possible to hook siggen -> sine -> an axis and get freq response
[21:54:56] <daveengvall__> but then I don't know what to do from there.
[21:55:21] <SWPadnos> yiou need a square wave to get frequency response
[21:55:35] <SWPadnos> so siggen -> square -> pid
[21:55:40] <jtr> skunkworks: I wonder how it would work to use an induction motor as a flywheel, applying some DC to the windings to simulate friction.
[21:55:42] <daveengvall__> can't you sweep a sine?
[21:55:47] <SWPadnos> you could
[21:55:57] <SWPadnos> but what you want to see is the step response
[21:56:24] <daveengvall__> OK and then how do you get from there to PID?
[21:56:32] <skunkworks> daveengvall__: I think petev added an auto-tune pid.. I think it is pidat or something like that..
[21:56:44] <SWPadnos> square wave -> PID (position, like you'd get from the TP)
[21:56:49] <SWPadnos> att_pid
[21:56:51] <SWPadnos> at_pid
[21:57:08] <SWPadnos> I think the results with that were somewhat variable though
[21:57:22] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I guess I should have cleared the driveway while it was still light out
[21:57:39] <skunkworks> there you go. I played with it - but my period was outside what should work for that style of calculating.
[21:57:50] <daveengvall__> a summer intern at NIST did some tuning but didn't finish the project
[21:57:54] <skunkworks> it worked 'ok'
[21:58:02] <skunkworks> yes - and it was lost. :)
[21:58:34] <SWPadnos> bbl - heading to Costco with the wife
[21:58:52] <daveengvall__> have fun
[21:59:36] <daveengvall__> I need to take the next step on homing but don't know where to go.
[22:00:21] <daveengvall__> when homing starts the axis.0.index-enable goes TRUE so it is looking for it but somehow doesn't find it.
[22:00:49] <lerneaen_hydra> daveengvall__; that sounds like all interns in a nutshell :D
[22:01:25] <daveengvall__> projects are usually longer than the allowed time
[22:02:35] <lerneaen_hydra> daveengvall__; tell me about it...
[22:03:15] <daveengvall__> just tuning a servo ought to be easy but ...
[22:05:04] <lerneaen_hydra> I take it you've read the tuning guide on the wiki
[22:05:19] <lerneaen_hydra> (excuse me if you've already said that earlier)
[22:06:07] <daveengvall__> I've looked at the stuff JMK put up but didn't finish. I really need a cookbook for HAL
[22:07:22] <daveengvall__> I think there is a real difference between tuning an STG (ISA) card and tuning with the newer (PCI) stuff.
[22:07:39] <gezar> old nuts & volts magazines worth keeping?
[22:08:02] <Jymmm> gezar: I think so
[22:08:21] <Jymmm> gezar: Better if you can scan them and put on cd
[22:08:46] <lerneaen_hydra> daveengvall__; oh you're not using emc to control PID?
[22:09:37] <daveengvall__> what kind of experiences are those with 5i20's having?
[22:09:37] <daveengvall__> sure ... but you get to set the P, I, D, FF0, FF1, FF2
[22:09:50] <Jymmm> gezar: gimme the name of an article in one of them plus the date
[22:10:19] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah, what's the problem, can't you find a stable value for the parameters?
[22:11:10] <daveengvall__> I'm closer than I was yesterday ... in fact close enough to transfer the contoller to the machine and retune for the heavier axis
[22:11:28] <daveengvall__> and higher resolution encoder
[22:12:22] <Jymmm> gezar: http://store.nutsvolts.com/home.php?cat=103
[22:12:48] <daveengvall__> going off to beat my head against the homing issue.
[22:12:53] <daveengvall__> see ya later
[22:13:00] <Jymmm> G'Night daveengvall__
[22:13:18] <Jymmm> gezar: back issues are $5/ea
[22:13:27] <daveengvall__> 'night Jymmm
[22:15:35] <Jymmm> gezar: per year on cd $25/ea http://store.nutsvolts.com/home.php?cat=105
[22:23:18] <gezar> well if thats the case im just going to toss the 4 issues i have
[22:23:36] <Jymmm> Oh, I thought you had a whole collection of them
[22:27:56] <Jymmm> gezar: Too bad they're not letter sized (8.5" x 11"), then you could easily scan them to PDF.
[22:28:12] <BigJohnT> just been testing G0 vs homing and there is a huge difference. Makes me think that when going to the home position it's not really just a G0 move
[22:28:58] <BigJohnT> and this machine goes 450IPM so you really notice it
[22:30:31] <Skullworks-PGAB> 450ipm would be nice, I doubt I'll get more than 200IPM :(
[22:30:51] <jmkasunich> BigJohnT: don't compare the home move to a combined X and Y G0
[22:31:04] <jmkasunich> compare X home move to an X only G0
[22:31:30] <BigJohnT> jmkasunich: that's what I did X15 X14 and back and forth
[22:31:44] <jmkasunich> ok
[22:32:05] <jmkasunich> your G0 move also has to be long enough to let the axis accel to full speed and decel back down - shorter moves won't hit top speed
[22:32:11] <BigJohnT> jmkasunich: when I lower the speed down the home is as smooth as the G0 moves
[22:32:23] <jmkasunich> how much of a move is "short" depends on your vel and accel limits
[22:32:48] <BigJohnT> I only move 0.5 from the home switch to home and was doing 1.0 lenght reversals
[22:33:01] <jmkasunich> strange
[22:33:32] <Skullworks-PGAB> would there be a way to suppress a following error during homing, or allow it to reset?
[22:33:35] <jmkasunich> I'd like to help, but right now I'm trying to wrap my brain around some G-code
[22:33:36] <BigJohnT> that is what prompted my questions from the other day
[22:33:57] <BigJohnT> what are you cutting?
[22:34:07] <jmkasunich> bracket to mount my spindle encoder
[22:34:16] <jmkasunich> first time I've used tool diameter comp
[22:34:26] <BigJohnT> got a profile or just slots?
[22:34:40] <BigJohnT> tool comp that is fun
[22:34:49] <jmkasunich> two helical milled holes, a curved slot, and an outside profile
[22:34:54] <jmkasunich> (I don't mess around)
[22:35:01] <BigJohnT> you got a print?
[22:35:19] <jmkasunich> I have it in easycad, haven't printed it out
[22:35:27] <jmkasunich> or even dimensioned it
[22:36:02] <jmkasunich> I've got it mostly coded - the holes are done, the slot and profile I've coded the path, now I'm doing the o-word loops that will rough and finish cut it
[22:36:05] <BigJohnT> can you post it up somewhere perhaps I can send it through my software
[22:36:09] <BigJohnT> ok
[22:36:47] <jmkasunich> this is a learning experience for me, so having you run it thru your cam wouldn't teach me anything
[22:37:07] <BigJohnT> nope, just thought I'd offer
[22:37:37] <jmkasunich> if you want to jsut for fun or to test your sw, I can post a dxf. but later, after I get this coded
[22:37:46] <BigJohnT> I better leave you alone then so you can focus
[22:38:02] <BigJohnT> the sw is commerical so it works...
[22:50:05] <tomp> daveengvall__ i think jmk suggested using only P to begin with , and to not use emc at first, just hal ( pretty much how youd do an oldschool analog amp ) oh, and null it 1st ( see it dont move when told to 'stay' :)
[22:51:34] <eric_U> interesting stuff http://cgi.ebay.com/Phoenix-Contact-Lot-of-DIN-rail-acces-Omron-Contra-clip_W0QQitemZ130187579822QQihZ003QQcategoryZ42899QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[22:53:13] <tomp> py pyrometer ( long skinny bit ) ?
[22:53:35] <tomp> nope, cut cable
[22:58:37] <jmkasunich> anybody here used arc moves to begin tool diameter compensation?
[22:59:18] <jmkasunich> I have vague memories a year or so ago of working out some of the math, and I'm almost certain it was implemented
[22:59:34] <jmkasunich> but I'm getting arc radius mismatch errors
[23:00:02] <BigJohnT> you starting the arc with tool comp?
[23:00:31] <jmkasunich> G0 to a spot, G41 to turn comp on, G3 to a new spot
[23:00:54] <BigJohnT> brb
[23:01:02] <cradek> jmkasunich: I have but it's been a while
[23:01:26] <cradek> without comp (or with G41 D0) does your program work?
[23:01:37] <jmkasunich> lets see
[23:02:12] <jmkasunich> it won't work without comp
[23:02:23] <jmkasunich> or I'm not understanding figure 10 in the manual
[23:02:29] <jmkasunich> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_tool_compensation.html
[23:02:47] <jmkasunich> in figure 10, section 1.4.2
[23:03:22] <jmkasunich> the distance from current point to programmed center point is not gonna be the same as the distance from programmed end point to programmed center point
[23:03:31] <cradek> if it won't work without comp it's hopeless with
[23:03:35] <jmkasunich> they need to differ by the tool radius
[23:03:53] <jmkasunich> please look at that drawing
[23:03:55] <cradek> that picture is bogus
[23:04:06] <cradek> you program the uncompensated path
[23:04:27] <cradek> the same arc will work with and without comp
[23:04:43] <jmkasunich> so I should actually be programming the unlabeled point at the bottom of the drawing as my first point?
[23:05:22] <cradek> I better read this text
[23:06:03] <cradek> yeah I think this is all wrong
[23:06:32] <jmkasunich> I feel better
[23:06:36] <tomp> imo the programmed arc is 'current point' to 'programmed end point', and the motion is 'current point' to 'destination of tool tip'
[23:06:37] <cradek> you should program an arc with radius > tool radius that enters the path tangent
[23:07:27] <BigJohnT> this must be why I just program tool path without comp...
[23:07:32] <jmkasunich> the distance from "current point" to center, and "programmed point" to center needs to be the same, like any other arc, right?
[23:07:43] <cradek> yes
[23:08:10] <jmkasunich> thats why the figure is wrong, it implies the programmed radii at start and end aren't the same
[23:08:46] <cradek> the generated compensated arc will be tangent to the path at the endpoint. direction at start and center are different
[23:08:49] <BigJohnT> you looking at figure 10
[23:09:03] <jmkasunich> BigJohnT: yes
[23:09:14] <cradek> I don't understand if figure 10 is what the programmer is supposed to do, or what emc is supposed to do, but it's bogus either way
[23:09:44] <jmkasunich> see, I RTFM and it leads me astray
[23:09:54] <cradek> comp311_2.ngc is a great example
[23:10:07] <cradek> it shows uncomp and comp with arc entry
[23:10:33] <cradek> you can see the arc is programmed the same way
[23:11:51] <BigJohnT> in comp311_2 they do the comp move before the arc right?
[23:12:13] <cradek> no it uses single-arc entry
[23:12:45] <BigJohnT> on line 26 g41 g1 y4
[23:12:48] <cradek> lines 11,26 are the same; 26 is with comp
[23:13:08] <cradek> you must have a different version of the file than 2.2.2 has
[23:13:20] <BigJohnT> I've got 2.2.2
[23:13:35] <cradek> line 26 is g3 x2 y3 i1
[23:13:38] <cradek> line 25 is g41
[23:13:46] <tomp> the center of the entry arc is unknown ( not related to your part , just a requisite of the leadin arc ) http://imagebin.org/12798
[23:13:47] <BigJohnT> different then
[23:13:51] <jmkasunich> if you load it without having a tool table, the comp won't show (tool diameter is zero)
[23:14:10] <cradek> tomp: emc calculates that arc properly
[23:14:11] <jmkasunich> I had to change it to g41.1d0.2 to get it to show both paths
[23:14:33] <tomp> the paste was about the pix not the calc
[23:15:41] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/comp311_2.ngc.png
[23:16:01] <cradek> the highlighted line is the entry arc
[23:16:01] <jmkasunich> yeah, thats how it looks after I put in the 41.1
[23:16:02] <tomp> yes
[23:16:17] <cradek> tomp is right, the center of the generated arc is different
[23:16:25] <cradek> as well as its initial direction/tangency
[23:16:36] <tomp> cradek: better pic tho, mine is snarfed
[23:16:44] <tomp> yours is...
[23:16:53] <tomp> yours is better pic
[23:18:25] <tomp> how to calc ctr?
[23:18:40] <cradek> don't know, I figured it out a while ago :-)
[23:19:00] <cradek> actually I think I put good comments in the source - let me see
[23:19:02] <jmkasunich> doesn't matter, EMC calculates it
[23:19:11] <BigJohnT> cradek: I had the wrong file loaded I had comp311.ngc not comp311_2.ngc
[23:19:11] <tomp> the i j ?
[23:19:31] <jmkasunich> I think you are calculating the i j of the uncompensated arc
[23:20:02] <BigJohnT> time to start the deer chili bbl
[23:21:08] <cradek> tomp: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_convert.cc?rev=1.102
[23:21:15] <cradek> search for "imagine" haha
[23:22:04] <tomp> got it, now getting pencil & paper... :)
[23:22:20] <cradek> yeah you will sure need the picture :-)
[23:23:15] <jmkasunich> woot - it accepted my arc (after about 10 tries)
[23:23:26] <jmkasunich> I think I'm getting a grip on it - the manual sure didn't help
[23:23:59] <cradek> I always write the program with D0 first and then turn on comp afterward
[23:24:21] <cradek> I'm definitely not good enough to get it right in one try
[23:30:19] <cradek> I remember 3-4 of us solved this arc entry geometry problem (differently) but mine stuck because I wrote it in C :-)
[23:31:52] <cradek> jmkasunich: working on something fun?
[23:43:02] <tomp> theres the dang inv button on this gnome calc, that took 4ever to see
[23:43:03] <SWPadnos> heh - I wrote my answer with kig, I think
[23:43:15] <SWPadnos> which is vastly different from C