#emc | Logs for 2008-01-03

[00:07:37] <dmess> depends on whom you hand the keys too..
[00:09:10] <dmess> i've been handed the keys to MANY multi-million dollar machines... prior to handing them off to the customer... and i'd never SEEN the machine before.... ; )
[00:10:36] <dmess> and they wanted to make PARTS.."NOW... or before then if you can do that Mess"
[00:13:28] <dmess> we can only dream of an EMC monster like the toshiba mpc or mph series... or the bf style boring mills... althought they would be the easiest to confert..
[00:17:39] <gezar> grilled me some beef burgers
[00:26:56] <[Harlock]> seems I've got a stepper turning! woohoo!
[00:40:30] <[Harlock]> Is there a mistake in the SCALE= definition on linuxcnc.org ?
[00:40:51] <[Harlock]> shouldn't there be a 360deg factor somewhere
[00:40:55] <[Harlock]> ?
[00:43:13] <skunkworks> ?
[00:43:48] <[Harlock]> I'm attempting to scale my stepper
[00:43:49] <skunkworks> scale I would think would be (if using steppers) steps per degreee..
[00:43:51] <[Harlock]> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//config_ini_config.html#sub:%5BAXIS%5D-Section
[00:44:11] <[Harlock]> it seems to be how many steps required to displace the axis by 1 unit
[00:44:14] <[Harlock]> (mm or in)
[00:44:27] <cradek> that's correct
[00:44:39] <[Harlock]> i'm looking at Stepper-related items
[00:45:12] <cradek> for a linear axis (something that slides) degrees don't have any meaning
[00:45:25] <cradek> for a rotary axis you do use degrees
[00:45:38] <[Harlock]> that's true, but the stepper is rotating somehow, right?
[00:45:55] <[Harlock]> so the formula should account for it in order to get steps/unit at the end of the day
[00:46:14] <cradek> oh you mean the formula is wrong, not the definition of SCALE?
[00:46:37] <[Harlock]> I hope the definition is good
[00:46:42] <[Harlock]> the formula is fishy
[00:46:55] <[Harlock]> at least some steps seems to be omitted
[00:47:03] <cradek> I agree the units look fishy
[00:47:16] <archivist> you may have gearing to take into account
[00:47:19] <cradek> (and what a stupid example that is)
[00:47:31] <cradek> archivist: he means the formula in that example is wrong
[00:47:38] <cradek> the calculation
[00:48:02] <[Harlock]> say I have a 20tpi rod, I need 20 turns to get an inch, so 20x 360...
[00:48:26] <skunkworks> where is the 360 coming in?
[00:48:31] <[Harlock]> degrees
[00:48:42] <[Harlock]> I have a 1.8deg / step stepper
[00:48:47] <cradek> skunkworks: see the units in that example? The example writer cancels "rev" and "degree"
[00:49:41] <skunkworks> it is converting the 10tpi to metric.. yes - a bit confusing...
[00:49:57] <cradek> yes, it's a stupid example in addition to the math being wrong
[00:50:20] <[Harlock]> metric conversion isn't a big deal, the rest is confusing
[00:50:44] <cradek> actually the 'answer' is right
[00:50:58] <cradek> but the derivation isn't
[00:52:26] <skunkworks> [Harlock]: the question is - what is your setup? how many turns of the stepper runs your rotory table 1 rotaion?
[00:53:02] <skunkworks> how many steps per rev are your stepper drives set to?
[00:53:03] <[Harlock]> it's a linear X axis
[00:53:29] <[Harlock]> it's a 1.8deg / full step, running at 256 microsteps, on a 1/4inch 20tpi rod
[00:53:49] <[Harlock]> so 256 x 20 x 360 / 1.8
[00:54:32] <[Harlock]> I guess I'll have to get ride of that microstepping someday
[00:54:37] <[Harlock]> ridd
[00:54:56] <cradek> dangit I shot the point off my wiggler into another dimension
[00:55:18] <cradek> it missed me, which is good, but if it had hit me, I would know where it is
[00:55:34] <skunkworks> 200*256*20 yikes.. 1024000 input scale?
[00:56:01] <[Harlock]> yeah the factory set microstepping is overkill for this application :)
[00:56:08] <[Harlock]> let's divide this by 25.4 to get mm...
[00:56:10] <skunkworks> I think that is the highest input scale I have run across
[00:56:10] <[Harlock]> :)
[00:56:21] <cradek> with software step generation that will be pretty limiting
[00:56:45] <[Harlock]> I know I know
[00:56:47] <[Harlock]> I'm starting
[00:56:51] <cradek> ok :-)
[00:56:54] <skunkworks> heh :)
[00:56:57] <[Harlock]> I haven't got the programming cable for the stepper yet
[00:57:37] <[Harlock]> they use some kind of small shallow header. I'll place an order on Digikey someday...
[00:58:24] <[Harlock]> but they are neat little steppers
[00:59:51] <cradek> found it!
[01:00:00] <skunkworks> great :)
[01:00:08] <skunkworks> was it the last place you looked;)
[01:00:21] <cradek> it went past or through the shelving I thought it landed in/on
[01:00:36] <cradek> maybe I'll try to not do that again
[01:00:46] <skunkworks> how did you do it?
[01:00:57] <cradek> just had the spindle turned up (way) too fast when I turned it on
[01:02:04] <[Harlock]> ok now that my scaling is cranked up, I get joint 0 following error again... I guess max velocity is set too high?
[01:02:26] <cradek> [Harlock]: yes
[01:02:39] <cradek> can't generate the pulses fast enough, so the travel falls behind
[01:03:14] <[Harlock]> I would have assumed that the software would pick the most restrictive of the two conditions: Max velocity or step generation
[01:03:17] <[Harlock]> oh well
[01:03:47] <cradek> there was a warning about this particular misconfiguration but sadly it broke
[01:04:08] <skunkworks> if you ran thru the stepconf program - I think it would calculate it for you.. (I have never used it yet)
[01:04:15] <cradek> that's true
[01:04:27] <cradek> and if you're not using doublestep, you should (stepconf does that by default)
[01:04:55] <[Harlock]> cradek: what do you mean doublestep? 256 microsteps isn't enough??
[01:05:21] <[Harlock]> does EMC computes doublestepping inside one cycle?
[01:05:30] <skunkworks> you would have to know the timing numbers for your drives though.. (I think you can pick some pre-setup numbers though to try)
[01:05:52] <cradek> sorry, doublestep is an emc configuration, nothing to do with microstepping
[01:06:02] <cradek> did you start with a config from stepconf?
[01:06:57] <[Harlock]> cradek: I like typing in straight in the stepper_mm.ini that came with emc. Stepconf wasn't working when I started...
[01:07:51] <[Harlock]> but since you guys keep insisting on using stepconf, I'll give it a try :)
[01:07:55] <skunkworks> if your running 2.2.2 - I think it is working pretty well now.
[01:08:05] <[Harlock]> it's a pre-2.2
[01:08:35] <skunkworks> what version are you running?
[01:08:35] <[Harlock]> when I downloaded the latest from CVS, the RTAI latency tests weren't successful anymore (?)
[01:08:53] <[Harlock]> CVS pre-2.2, october 13
[01:09:57] <cradek> that's pretty old, there have been a couple 2.2 releases since then
[01:10:07] <cradek> I doubt stepconf will work in the code you have
[01:10:15] <cradek> you can get RELEASE_2_2_2 from cvs
[01:10:31] <cradek> or, the v2_2_branch for any fixes that will be in 2.2.3
[01:10:53] <Ziegler> OT: https://www.dtv2009.gov/ << get your dtv tuner coupons! (sorry.. I still have rabbit ears)
[01:11:00] <[Harlock]> EMC seems to be a pretty active project...
[01:11:25] <cradek> yes it is going strong
[01:11:39] <cradek> so much has happened in the last couple years
[01:12:10] <[Harlock]> I was looking into the Lintouch project a while back for PLC control and SCADA
[01:12:47] <[Harlock]> too bad Lintouch isn't as active as EMC
[01:16:52] <[Harlock]> nice... the instructions for Debian Etch have been updated...
[01:18:06] <[Harlock]> cradek: what should I pick now? RELEASE_2_2_2 or v2_2_branch?
[01:18:49] <fenn> v2_2_branch
[01:18:57] <cradek> up to you. REL matches the release exactly. If you want to track the fixes that are newer than 2.2.2 you want the branch
[01:20:00] <[Harlock]> I want something working :)
[01:20:08] <[Harlock]> I'm picking up v2_2_branch
[01:20:37] <fenn> branch shouldnt have any major breakage applied to it
[01:20:44] <fenn> so you should be fine with that
[01:21:00] <[Harlock]> hopefully I won't have issues with RTAI
[01:25:39] <jepler> [Harlock]: do you mean that the /usr/realtime/.../latency test fails? I don't see how that could depend on the emc version. Or do you mean emc's latency-test program, or a message while emc running about "unexpected realtime delay"?
[01:27:54] <jepler> apologies if you covered the details already, but I didn't see them
[01:29:08] <[Harlock]> jepler: I had issues with a CVS version of EMC where EMC's realtime checks were failing
[01:29:40] <jepler> "unexpected realtime delay on task #"?
[01:30:34] <jepler> hm .. that message was added before the October 13 date you mentioned ..
[01:31:01] <jepler> 2007/06/01
[01:31:20] <[Harlock]> jepler: I don't think this was the message, but I'll run the tests as soon as the compilation is done
[01:31:41] <jepler> ok .. having the exact message would be nice
[01:31:46] <[Harlock]> I only ran version after october 13th
[01:35:20] <[Harlock]> Runtest: 21 tests run, 15 successful, 5 failed + 1 expectedFailed: /home/harlock/emc2/20080102/tests/ccomp/lathe-comp /home/harlock/emc2/20080102/tests/ccomp/mill-g90g91g92 /home/harlock/emc2/20080102/tests/ccomp/mill-line-arc-entry /home/harlock/emc2/20080102/tests/ccomp/mill-zchanges /home/harlock/emc2/20080102/tests/oword/sub.0
[01:35:51] <[Harlock]> only 1 test was expected to fail
[01:35:52] <jepler> I didn't think anybody actually ran those tests - clearly I don't.
[01:36:05] <[Harlock]> nice
[01:36:16] <jepler> somehow I've never gotten around to automating that they be run
[01:36:19] <[Harlock]> they were working before
[01:36:36] <jepler> anyway, I get the same failures here .. but I think they are probably not due to a real bug
[01:36:47] <[Harlock]> fine
[01:37:40] <jepler> in fact I can confirm that all the differences I get (the same 5 tests) are due to a bug fix related to constant surface speed mode
[01:37:55] <jepler> and they are correct
[01:38:15] <jepler> shortly, I'll update the cvs to have the correct 'expected' output.
[01:38:25] <[Harlock]> thnx
[01:38:31] <cradek> my fault - thanks jepler
[01:38:43] <skunkworks> it is quite magical :)
[01:39:25] <jepler> [Harlock]: thanks for calling it to my attention
[01:46:39] <[Harlock]> Xorg crashed...
[01:46:59] <cradek> ouch
[01:47:05] <[Harlock]> the glxgears got too small as I was resizing them
[01:47:09] <[Harlock]> O_o
[01:47:39] <[Harlock]> I was running the latency test that comes with EMC
[01:48:09] <jepler> hm that's no good
[01:48:20] <cradek> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mesa/+bug/109784
[01:48:24] <cradek> I bet it's this
[01:48:31] <cradek> supposedly fixed upstream (mesa bug)
[01:48:43] <jepler> uh oh, time to go home -- the bad jazz music is starting at the coffee shop
[01:48:50] <cradek> haha
[01:48:57] <jepler> oh wait -- it's Open Mike night, not Bad Jazz night.
[01:50:00] <jepler> the speed with which they ignore bugs due to being fixed in newer Ubuntu releases makes me question the value of the LTS
[01:50:14] <cradek> no kidding
[01:52:21] <[Harlock]> any suggestion to run GL components beside glxgears?
[01:52:32] <[Harlock]> I'd like to do the EMC latency-test
[01:53:26] <jepler> [Harlock]: some of the screensavers in /usr/lib/xscreensaver are opengl -- gltext for example
[01:53:39] <jepler> when you run them outside the screensaver, they just come up in a window: /usr/lib/xscreensaver/gltext
[01:54:21] <[Harlock]> I don't have the xscreensaver directory :)
[01:54:45] <[Harlock]> apt-get another package
[01:55:39] <cradek> [Harlock]: are you using xorg 7.1?
[01:56:22] <cradek> bbl
[01:56:45] <[Harlock]> yes
[01:57:14] <alex_joni> skunkworks: you need to rub it in, don't you :P
[01:58:00] <skunkworks> alex_joni: what?
[01:58:28] <alex_joni> " Almost all of the emc2 developers usually show up. "
[01:58:53] <skunkworks> heh - yah.. I was hoping you would get the hint. :)
[01:59:14] <jepler> [Harlock]: hm, I know there are some opengl screensavers included in ubuntu-desktop .. but maybe I am wrong about which ones
[01:59:39] <skunkworks> I have had glxgears restart x. Didn't effect emc though..
[02:00:10] <[Harlock]> I'm on Debian Etch. I had to install xscreensaver, xscreensaver-gl and libgle3
[02:00:33] <[Harlock]> for a guy that uses a "black" screen as screen saver, that's a lot of software to do latency-test... lol
[02:00:51] <[Harlock]> my latency sucks
[02:01:10] <[Harlock]> 48484ns for the 1.0ms and 53053ns for the 25us thread
[02:01:17] <jepler> ouch
[02:01:40] <jepler> only when you run opengl programs, or does it get bad before that?
[02:01:53] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is off to bed
[02:01:55] <[Harlock]> I ran some standard screensaver.
[02:01:57] <alex_joni> good night all :)
[02:02:04] <jepler> 'night alex_joni
[02:02:04] <[Harlock]> xmatrix I think
[02:02:08] <[Harlock]> 'night
[02:04:51] <jepler> bbl
[02:11:54] <[Harlock]> here's an error I got using stepconf
[02:12:03] <[Harlock]> insmod: error inserting '/home/harlock/emc2/20080102/rtlib/threads.ko': -1 Operation not permitted
[02:12:10] <[Harlock]> I'm running stepconf as a user
[02:12:16] <[Harlock]> I was trying to test the axis
[02:12:24] <SWPadnos> you need to look at dmesg to see the real error
[02:12:47] <[Harlock]> HAL_LIB: ERROR: new thread period 1000000 is less than clock period 3307129THREADS: ERROR: could not create thread 'slow'
[02:13:10] <SWPadnos> ah - you have to create threads order from fastest (shortest period) to slowest (longest period)
[02:13:17] <SWPadnos> ^in order
[02:13:44] <SWPadnos> or at least the fastest thread has to be created first
[02:14:18] <[Harlock]> I guess I will test everything in Axis...
[02:15:54] <SWPadnos> hmmm - I don't know why stepconf would create a thread with a 3.3 ms period
[02:16:07] <SWPadnos> (and then try to make one with a 1 ms period)
[02:17:07] <jepler> the base thread time was supposed to be capped at 100us
[02:17:18] <jepler> er, threads?
[02:17:23] <[Harlock]> capped as a max or min?
[02:17:24] <jepler> oh when running the axis test?
[02:17:35] <jepler> I bet that's an oversight on my part
[02:18:25] <jepler> the largest numeric value it should write is 100000, or 100us. but I think I only apply that limit when writing the ini file, not when doing an axis test
[02:18:31] <jepler> I love users, they help me find problems in my code
[02:18:39] <[Harlock]> no problema
[02:19:19] <[Harlock]> I don't have much time to code, so the least I can do is use the code, and provide feedback
[02:19:45] <jepler> you could try applying this change: http://pastebin.com/m145b8567
[02:20:04] <jepler> is the step rate on the axis you were going to test, very low (e.g., less than 1000 Hz)?
[02:20:48] <[Harlock]> hmm one sec
[02:21:18] <[Harlock]> yes 200hz
[02:25:11] <[Harlock]> in the diff output you sent, 1424 is the line number? I found the lines at 1369
[02:25:58] <jepler> it may be different in your version -- I was working with the development version, where there have been other changes in stepconf
[02:26:42] <[Harlock]> ok fine. do I have to do make or something else
[02:27:15] <jepler> yes, "make" should be sufficient ("make" copies the python scripts around, makes sure they're executable, and so on)
[02:29:13] <[Harlock]> there's a bunch of warning when I run make, they seem related to realtime function calls
[02:29:23] <[Harlock]> WARNING: "rt_get_cpu_time_ns" [/home/harlock/emc2/20080102/src/classicladder_rt.ko] undefined!
[02:31:03] <[Harlock]> when you do the axis test, do you load the probe_parport HAL module?
[02:31:17] <[Harlock]> it was required with the older version of emc
[02:31:25] <[Harlock]> required for my computer at least
[02:32:40] <jepler> those compile warnings are useless junk that the kernel makefiles produce
[02:32:47] <jepler> let me see if I can answer your other question
[02:33:01] <jepler> looks like I do *not* load probe_parport, another oversight I should fix
[02:33:10] <[Harlock]> hold on
[02:33:13] <[Harlock]> seems it works anyway
[02:33:17] <jepler> look a few lines below where you changed it already, that's where the 'loadrt probe_parport' would have to go ..
[02:33:39] <jepler> on some systems, probe_parport is effective until a later reboot, so if you already ran your own working config that would explain it
[02:33:40] <[Harlock]> maybe the newer emc has a better hal_parport?
[02:33:49] <[Harlock]> oh I see
[02:33:54] <[Harlock]> lemme reboot then
[02:40:21] <jepler> [Harlock]: I checked in the period change and a probe_parport change, you should get them now if you 'cvs up'.
[02:41:10] <jepler> (that is, if you checked out -rv2_2_branch)
[02:41:16] <[Harlock]> it's not required...?
[02:41:21] <[Harlock]> it still works
[02:41:38] <jepler> huh
[02:41:41] <[Harlock]> I think probe_parport is the port is configured as ECP or EPP?
[02:41:43] <jepler> you mean, without probe_parport?
[02:41:52] <[Harlock]> yes without
[02:41:57] <jepler> probe_parport has to do with whether the PNP BIOS leaves the parport disabled by default when linux boots
[02:42:00] <[Harlock]> at least without changing anything
[02:42:30] <[Harlock]> I had issues before but it might be related to the kernel modules parport, parport_pc, ppdev and lp
[02:43:02] <[Harlock]> if it doesn't harm, I would load it anyway
[02:43:08] <[Harlock]> but now it works fine on my machine
[02:44:38] <jepler> well -- in order to reduce the questions that users have to answer, stepconf always puts the loadrt probe_parport in its final .hal output
[02:44:53] <jepler> but it didn't for "Test Axis", and that inconsistency is a bug even if it didn't cause you any problems
[02:46:46] <[Harlock]> the leadscrew pitch is confusing
[02:46:53] <[Harlock]> I had 20 TPI
[02:47:30] <gezar> what is the pitch of your screws?
[02:47:33] <[Harlock]> so to convert it to metric I had set it to 508 Turns per mm
[02:48:08] <[Harlock]> but leadscrew pitch is rather 0.001968503937007874016 mm/rev
[02:48:20] <gezar> what?
[02:48:26] <SWPadnos> that's backwards
[02:48:34] <SWPadnos> 20 TPI means 1.27 mm/rev
[02:48:55] <[Harlock]> argh
[02:49:17] <[Harlock]> so in SAE you have turns per unit, and metric is units per turns?
[02:50:00] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure how stepconf wants to see the numbers (ie, whether you can enter either turns/unit or units/turn)
[02:50:20] <SWPadnos> but yes, in general, imperial screws are rated in threads per inch and metric are millimeters per thread
[02:50:39] <jepler> that's how stepconf asks for the information
[02:51:06] <SWPadnos> does it allow for a metric pitch but imperial machine (or vise versa, as [Harlock] is doing)?
[02:51:27] <jepler> no, once you select your units on the third page, everything is entered in those units
[02:51:38] <SWPadnos> ok
[02:51:38] <[Harlock]> well if I set 1.27mm/rev, that's fine, isn't it?
[02:51:48] <SWPadnos> should be
[02:52:00] <[Harlock]> the user must think, and it's painful :)
[02:52:05] <jepler> hah
[02:52:29] <SWPadnos> or, the user could configure their machine to use the same units that their screws are specified in :)
[02:52:32] <[Harlock]> great... my max velocity is 0.44mm/s
[02:52:34] <jepler> the hope was that metric people would have metric screws, and find it natural to enter 1 or 2 for 1mm/rev or 2mm/rev .. and the americans would have their 20TPI screws and feel comfortable entering 20
[02:52:51] <jepler> hm, .44mm/s doesn't sound very good
[02:52:51] <[Harlock]> Jepler: leave it as is
[02:53:29] <[Harlock]> I won't impress my girlfriend with that kind of crawling
[02:55:23] <SWPadnos> but she'll be very impressed with the apparent resolution
[02:55:29] <[Harlock]> lol
[02:56:00] <jepler> how many Hz is that?
[02:56:37] <[Harlock]> 17857Hz
[02:56:54] <[Harlock]> the microstepping is way too high
[02:57:02] <jepler> indeed
[02:57:10] <[Harlock]> and I can't change it until I get the programming cable
[02:57:32] <[Harlock]> and the computer isn't "top shape" for the task
[02:58:14] <[Harlock]> is there anything that can be tweaked in the BIOS to improve the realtime performance?
[02:59:22] <jepler> what we know is on the wiki: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#RTAI_Latency_test .. another good page is http://rtai.dk/cgi-bin/gratiswiki.pl?Latency_Killer (linked from there)
[03:00:39] <[Harlock]> in stepconf, when doing the +/- axis test, I suggest to move only by the amount on the positive side, then the same amount on the negative side, then repeat.
[03:01:06] <[Harlock]> now the behavior is move by the amount on the positive, then twice the amount on the negative side, then twice the amount on the positive side
[03:01:58] <[Harlock]> err scratch that
[03:02:21] <[Harlock]> I though that (+) test would move by the amount and stop
[03:02:58] <[Harlock]> but it's moving back and forth
[03:03:19] <[Harlock]> what was the original idea for (+), (-) and (+/-) ?
[03:04:44] <jepler> originally I imagined moving the machine about to the center of travel and having it move both directions from the initial position. A bit later, it was suggested that some people might find it easier to spot a reference point at one end of travel or the other -- some machines would want to move "-" from the initial point, and others "+". so I tried to accomodate everyone.
[03:05:32] <[Harlock]> yeah but I don't think it should cycle over and over
[03:06:04] <[Harlock]> (+/-) is a good test to check stepper movement in both directions
[03:06:38] <[Harlock]> (+) and (-) allows you to test direction and scaling
[03:07:19] <[Harlock]> for example, I want to move 1.27mm, so it should rotate one full rotation
[03:07:39] <jepler> yeah I see your point too
[03:07:50] <[Harlock]> just my .02 cents
[03:08:27] <[Harlock]> now it's wiggling back and forth, but once you're in the middle of the task, the (+) and (-) is useless
[03:09:10] <[Harlock]> maybe we should have separate buttons like (STEP +) and (STEP -)
[03:09:13] <jepler> hm yeah -- probably that widget should be "greyed out" while the test is in progress
[03:09:30] <jepler> I'm off for the night
[03:09:35] <[Harlock]> me you
[03:09:37] <[Harlock]> see you guys
[03:09:40] <jepler> thanks for the thoughtful suggestions and the problem reports
[03:09:44] <jepler> see you around
[03:09:45] <[Harlock]> n/p
[03:09:48] <[Harlock]> cya
[05:08:16] <fenn> * fenn fiends for some ... something
[05:45:43] <jmkasunich_> jmkasunich_ is now known as jmkasunich
[09:23:55] <micges> hello everyone !
[11:20:06] <xemet> hello
[11:20:18] <xemet> any Pluto-P users there?
[11:21:14] <archivist> normaly yes hang around till they wake up
[11:22:21] <xemet> ok
[11:22:28] <xemet> I'll wait for jeff epler
[11:35:37] <fenn> xemet: are you ever going to share your nurbs code with the rest of the world?
[11:49:40] <xemet> fenn
[11:49:45] <xemet> I'd like to share
[11:50:07] <xemet> but I'm not a programmer
[11:50:16] <xemet> so don't expect good code :)
[11:50:49] <xemet> and it needs to be improved with better features
[11:52:08] <anonimasu> xemet: usually people improve on already written code instead of writing theor own..
[11:52:11] <anonimasu> :)
[11:53:05] <xemet> http://www.pastebin.org/14020
[11:53:20] <xemet> here is a patch that should work with 2.2.2 version of EMC2
[11:54:53] <anonimasu> xemet: I
[11:54:57] <anonimasu> I've seen worse :)
[11:55:51] <xemet> http://www.pastebin.org/14021
[11:56:22] <xemet> and this is the file that should be placed in the /src/rs274ngc/ folder
[11:56:31] <fenn> good or bad, i'm sure someone will find it useful
[11:57:11] <xemet> in the previous file, some code is from jepler
[11:57:20] <xemet> those parts regarding splines
[11:57:38] <fenn> yes i've played with his python biarc script
[11:57:42] <xemet> you can recognize it because it is very good :)
[11:58:57] <xemet> if you wanna try the patch just use the patch command with -p0 in the /src folder
[11:59:03] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:59:03] <anonimasu> :)
[12:01:00] <lerneaen_hydra> xemet, just out of curiosity, do you know of a page that describes the calculations that code does in a general manner?
[12:01:55] <xemet> uhm...no
[12:01:57] <fenn> xemet: do you think nurbs interpolation would be worth including in the emc2 source in the future? because it would be helpful then if it had the appropriate license
[12:02:34] <xemet> could be woĆ¹rth, but code needs a lot of improvement I think in order to work properly
[12:03:04] <fenn> lerneaen_hydra: http://axis.unpythonic.net/01171767993
[12:03:19] <xemet> those if for biarcs
[12:03:19] <lerneaen_hydra> fenn, ooh, nice, thanks
[12:03:42] <xemet> there is a paper that show that
[12:03:49] <fenn> there's a link to a paper explaining it at the bottom
[12:03:53] <xemet> you should find it in the epler page
[12:03:54] <xemet> ok
[12:06:06] <xemet> you can do with my code what you want, if you think it is good to include it in the trunk version so other can work on it you can do it
[12:06:17] <xemet> I don't know the procedure to include code in the trunk
[12:06:17] <fenn> xemet: i understand that it needs a lot of improvement, but you need to officially release it under some open source license in order for anyone to use it
[12:06:28] <xemet> how to?
[12:06:42] <xemet> consider it released :)
[12:08:11] <fenn> you can put a gpl license in it, such as the ones found at the top of most emc source, and that would remove any doubt.. although it might count as a derived work anyway
[12:08:58] <xemet> problem:
[12:09:07] <xemet> the code is inserted in already written code
[12:09:29] <xemet> I mean, I've added parts to .cc files from source
[12:09:41] <xemet> those files have the GPL at the top
[12:10:02] <fenn> right.. well, i'm no expert on this
[12:10:57] <xemet> Maybe
[12:11:20] <xemet> I could write the GPL statement at the top of the patch
[12:11:40] <xemet> and make the patch public in my website
[12:11:51] <fenn> yes, that would be best i think
[12:12:19] <xemet> well, I will do so in the next days
[12:12:44] <xemet> I've already sent code to a couple of persons that asked it to me by email
[12:12:59] <xemet> so maybe someone has worked on it
[12:19:49] <fenn> gosh.. googling 'patch GPL' is rather useless..
[12:19:57] <fenn> its all about some racing video game
[12:20:04] <xemet> ahah
[12:55:13] <alex_joni> micges: hello
[13:11:10] <maddash> is http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/emc/www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode.html up to date and accurate?
[13:11:18] <maddash> fenn: ^^?
[13:11:43] <fenn> no
[13:13:28] <maddash> :(
[13:13:49] <maddash> so g4p* doesn't cause a * second delay?
[13:14:00] <fenn> it does
[13:14:17] <maddash> oh, ok
[13:14:18] <fenn> up to date version here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/gcode.html
[13:14:49] <maddash> thanks
[13:15:58] <alex_joni> bbl
[13:18:45] <fenn> hmm.. half hour later and still no straight answer from #gnu as to whether a patch must be distributed under the gpl or not
[13:18:54] <maddash> i hope * can be a floating pt
[13:19:06] <maddash> cd gnu
[13:19:23] <maddash> oops
[13:21:45] <maddash> haha, when '%' is sent inn MDI mode, I get, "Bad character '134674560sed" from tkemc
[13:23:53] <rayh> ?join #emc-devel
[13:26:47] <maddash> what wonderful information can be gleaned from the irc logs
[13:27:12] <rayh> What did you find?
[13:29:13] <ALS> rayh: cool in the upper P
[13:30:16] <maddash> the answer to life, the universe, and everything in between
[13:31:22] <maddash> and that you can dwell for a fractional number of sseconds
[13:36:37] <rayh> I saw that fractional dwell somewhere.
[13:36:44] <fenn> i think i've got it sorted now. a patch is not a derivative work, but if it is not distributed under the gpl and you use it to patch some gpl'd code, you arent allowed to redistribute the combined work
[13:41:54] <fenn> (or compatible license)
[13:43:11] <maddash> rayh: you're the owner of the linuxcnc.org server?
[13:46:35] <xemet> any Pluto P users there?
[13:47:35] <skunkworks560> I have one.. have not used it for a few months.
[13:48:02] <xemet> but did u used it?
[13:48:28] <xemet> how do I know if the firmware was correctly loaded?
[13:51:52] <skunkworks560> I think off the top of my head - the led on the board goes from bright to dim. (I think)
[13:52:57] <xemet> uhm, so mine is not loaded
[13:52:59] <skunkworks560> the led with show the duty cycle of the first pwm output. (if you hook a signal to it)
[13:53:02] <xemet> important question
[13:53:29] <xemet> how do I know if the second parallel port is EPP?
[13:53:32] <jepler> in emc 2.2 and above, if communication between the board and emc is not established, the 'loadrt' command will fail with a message like insmod: error inserting '/home/jepler/emc2.cvs/rtlib/pluto_servo.ko': -1 Input/output error
[13:53:45] <jepler> dmesg will say: [4117568.739509] Failed to communicate with pluto-servo board after programming firmware.
[13:53:46] <xemet> uhm
[13:54:37] <xemet> this feature doesn't seem to work because if I try to start lathe_pluto configuration with the pulto disconnected I receive no errors
[13:55:41] <jepler> I do.
[13:55:46] <jepler> what version of emc are you using?
[13:55:55] <jepler> is it version 2.2.0 or newer?
[13:56:47] <xemet> 2.2.2
[13:57:13] <jepler> here's what I get when running lathe-pluto on 2.2.3~cvs: http://pastebin.com/m378b0f10
[13:57:36] <jepler> but I do not believe this has changed since 2.2.2.
[13:58:19] <xemet> I've added ioaddr=0xdff0
[13:58:31] <xemet> after loadrt pluto_servo
[13:58:44] <xemet> in the lath_pluto .hal file
[14:00:15] <jepler> The "Failed to communicate" error is generated based on finding that the error bit is set in the EPP status register. If the I/O address does not correspond to an EPP port, I suppose there's no guarantee that reading those I/O registers will give a result that looks like an error condition.
[14:00:34] <xemet> uhm ok
[14:00:47] <xemet> how can I see if the second PCI parallel port is EPP?
[14:01:02] <xemet> I've set EPP from Bios, but I think that is for the onboard port
[14:01:17] <maddash> xemet: dmesg
[14:01:21] <jepler> I only have experience with onboard ports
[14:01:36] <maddash> xemet: modprobe parport_pc and chk dmesg
[14:01:48] <jepler> if you load the linux parport driver then check dmesg -- maddash's suggestion -- then I think linux will tell you what family of port it detected
[14:02:26] <jepler> 'sudo modprobe -i parport_pc' to run it as root and bypass the modprobe rule that normally causes the module not to be loaded on ubuntu emc systems.
[14:02:44] <maddash> man modprobe
[14:03:12] <jepler> here's the identification of an onboard port:
[14:03:12] <jepler> [17179593.308000] parport0: PC-style at 0x378, irq 7 [PCSPP,TRISTATE,EPP]
[14:03:22] <maddash> note the, "EPP]"
[14:03:44] <xemet> parport1: PC-style at 0xdff0 (0xdfe0) [PCSPP,TRISTATE]
[14:03:47] <maddash> actually, the entry for pci ports look the same, but with diff addr
[14:03:54] <xemet> ok, no EPP
[14:03:57] <maddash> xemet: ouch.
[14:04:01] <xemet> so I've to use the onboard port
[14:04:18] <xemet> or? is there as way to activate EPP for the second port?
[14:05:00] <maddash> likely not; dmesg's entry address the full capabilities of your PCI card as gotten via the PCI protocol
[14:05:06] <maddash> addresses*
[14:05:39] <xemet> ok, I will use the onboard
[14:05:42] <xemet> no problem
[14:06:26] <jepler> interesting comment in the linux parport driver: "EPP uses the HALT line to stop the CPU while it does the byte transfer". No wonder it doesn't seem effective to interleave the I/O operations with calculations in order to reduce the total time spent calculating and updating the hardware..
[14:07:58] <maddash> why would halt be necessary?
[14:08:05] <jepler> xemet: hm before you give up you could try using that second address reported in dmesg as the 'ioaddr_hi' for the port.
[14:08:30] <maddash> to prevent change in the databuffer in the middle of transmitting?
[14:09:02] <SWPadnos> to prevent the CPU from doing another OUT instruction to the port during the transfer?
[14:09:11] <SWPadnos> or is that what you meant? :)
[14:09:15] <maddash> yeah
[14:09:26] <maddash> [sigh] what hackishness
[14:09:28] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos goes to make coffee
[14:09:32] <jepler> maddash: I think because even compared to the ISA-bus timings, it is "a long time" before the data from an inb() that communicates with an epp device can be ready (up to 10 microseconds according to the comment)
[14:09:36] <maddash> * maddash had starbuck's
[14:09:46] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos doesn't like Starbucks
[14:10:05] <SWPadnos> (but I deal with it when I'm traveling)
[14:11:25] <maddash> wow, the first twenty lines of interp::open are pretty clever
[14:12:44] <jepler> .. or maybe the comment is inaccurate and it's actually the ISA bus "I/O CH RDY" bit that is driven while waiting for EPP communication ..
[14:12:55] <jepler> anyway .. semantics
[14:13:16] <jepler> my experience basically confirms that the CPU is prevented from doing anything interesting while waiting for that I/O
[14:13:57] <xemet> how do I remove the linux parallel port driver now?
[14:14:04] <SWPadnos> that constitutes major suckage, IMO
[14:14:05] <jepler> something like sudo rmmod parport_pc
[14:14:12] <maddash> wouldn't it be smarter to add a status register instead of halting the cpu?
[14:14:37] <xemet> ERROR: Module parport_pc is in use
[14:14:38] <maddash> xemet: modprobe -r
[14:14:45] <SWPadnos> I think the idea is that you can use a fast computer with an old program, and still have it be able to print
[14:14:46] <maddash> xemet: modprobe -r parport?
[14:15:07] <xemet> FATAL: Module parport_pc is in use.
[14:15:10] <maddash> hm, rmmod is shorter
[14:15:16] <xemet> "fatal"!!!
[14:15:18] <xemet> ehe
[14:15:32] <maddash> xemet: 'parport', not '_pc'
[14:15:48] <maddash> nope, nvm.
[14:15:50] <xemet> FATAL: Module parport is in use.
[14:16:12] <maddash> xemet: have yougot forced module unloading in thy kernel?
[14:16:28] <jepler> ERROR: Module parport is in use by parport_pc,lp
[14:16:31] <xemet> this is the kernel provided with EMC2
[14:16:41] <jepler> my rmmod says which other module is using this module
[14:16:42] <jepler> yours doesn't?
[14:16:43] <xemet> FATAL: Module parport is in use.
[14:16:49] <xemet> this is the message
[14:17:03] <jepler> if you can't guess what else to remove, then you may be forced to reboot instead.
[14:17:14] <xemet> well, the best way
[14:17:17] <xemet> I reboot
[14:17:26] <jepler> bbl
[14:17:29] <xemet> will be back in a minute
[14:23:14] <xemet> well, now when I start EMC2 with lathe_pluto and pluto connected
[14:23:20] <xemet> pluto led goes off
[14:23:32] <xemet> does it means the firmware load correctly?
[14:23:42] <jepler> that is a good sign
[14:24:08] <skunkworks560> jog the x axis.. I bet it goes bright and you get a folloing error
[14:24:09] <xemet> well, so I can start to work
[14:24:36] <xemet> uhm...it give following error, but led remains off
[14:24:52] <skunkworks560> try z then... I don
[14:25:01] <skunkworks560> I don't remember how it is hooked up.
[14:25:47] <skunkworks560> jessica?
[14:25:54] <xemet> I tried now pluto_stepper
[14:25:57] <Jessica> yeppers?
[14:26:15] <Jessica> do i know you, skunk?
[14:26:16] <xemet> I get following error and led brights
[14:26:31] <SWPadnos> heh - no, you only know fenn
[14:26:41] <xemet> how is it possible that I get following error with the stepper configuration??
[14:26:54] <skunkworks560> we don't normally get women on this channel...
[14:26:57] <skunkworks560> :)
[14:27:15] <SWPadnos> your base period is too slow for stepgen to generate steps for the requested speed
[14:27:15] <jepler> xemet: bugs
[14:27:25] <Jessica> Is Chris around this mornin?
[14:27:32] <xemet> bugs?
[14:27:41] <jepler> to put it politely, the pluto_step firmware and driver have not reached a stable state
[14:27:47] <xemet> ok, I return to pluto_servo
[14:27:51] <xemet> the one I need
[14:27:53] <SWPadnos> oh - with pluto - nevermind :)
[14:28:10] <skunkworks560> xemet: but it does look like it is working..
[14:28:25] <xemet> great
[14:28:42] <skunkworks560> cradek: are you around this morning?
[14:29:02] <xemet> jepler: http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=olIr747zBGg
[14:29:03] <SWPadnos> I think he watches for chris too :)
[14:29:06] <xemet> I got it working
[14:29:12] <skunkworks560> and christmas ;)
[14:29:20] <SWPadnos> oh christ, not that again
[14:29:44] <skunkworks560> xemet: pwm out of the printer port?
[14:29:49] <xemet> yes
[14:29:54] <skunkworks560> sweet
[14:29:58] <maddash> whoa 'Chris'?
[14:29:58] <lerneaen_hydra> SWPadnos, care to continue?
[14:30:00] <xemet> now I would like to get it work with pluto
[14:30:06] <Jessica> folks, I'm just about done with my rev 2 mill. it's 3/4" ply and I'm gonna paint it with kilz2 moisture resist paint. anyone else in here use wood, and do you have any tips for me?
[14:30:08] <SWPadnos> lerneaen_hydra, no, not really
[14:30:18] <xemet> in the video the signal is PDM so it sounds like the star wars robot
[14:30:24] <SWPadnos> Jessica, do it outside
[14:30:27] <SWPadnos> :)
[14:30:39] <lerneaen_hydra> SWPadnos, err, I take it it's one of those "you don't want to know" things?
[14:30:39] <Jessica> stinky?
[14:30:41] <xemet> bow I've set the pwm frequency to 17000 so I don't hear those strange sound
[14:30:42] <skunkworks560> xemet: http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/ampmess.JPG
[14:30:53] <maddash> Jessica: don't get it wet
[14:31:00] <SWPadnos> that'ws what the kilz is for
[14:31:02] <Jessica> thx, mad...
[14:31:41] <maddash> post lots of pics
[14:31:45] <Jessica> ifn i was rich, i'd have used aluminium. I'm not, so i get a wood mill instead.
[14:32:00] <lerneaen_hydra> Jessica, a wooden mill? out of 3/4" plywood?
[14:32:03] <xemet> skunk: wow great, i do not have those giant capacitor!
[14:32:05] <maddash> be extra generous with the accel ramps
[14:32:05] <fenn> in that situation concrete is a good solution
[14:32:07] <Jessica> yeah
[14:32:25] <Jessica> concrete? for a mill? huh?
[14:32:26] <maddash> haha, concrete
[14:32:28] <fenn> unless you're whatsisname and spend $50 on concrete
[14:32:53] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm interesting, how have you done the linear slides?
[14:33:11] <skunkworks560> I would make one out of concrete... I think it would be cool.
[14:33:16] <Jessica> 5/8" cold rolled rods with brass oiltight bushings
[14:33:17] <fenn> it dampens vibrations and has a decent stiffness. you have to reinforce it or it will crack
[14:33:45] <micges> alex_joni: hi
[14:34:00] <xemet> jessica here in Italy we have a cnc forum with a lot of wooden mills, if you're interested, just register and you'll foun a lot of pics
[14:34:10] <xemet> www.cncitalia.net/forum
[14:34:17] <Jessica> where in italy?
[14:34:27] <xemet> I'm in Palermo
[14:34:35] <Jessica> i love rome and venice!
[14:34:40] <xemet> the forum...well, on internet :)
[14:34:42] <Jessica> never been to Palermo
[14:34:44] <lerneaen_hydra> Jessica, oh, I see, are the rods centerless ground/polished?
[14:35:00] <skunkworks560> it would be full of chicken wire and rebar..
[14:35:25] <fenn> reinforced concrete is pretty strong. they make ships out of it
[14:35:33] <Jessica> lern... err ummm... dunno. I could give you the mcmaster carr pn if you want..
[14:35:53] <[Harlock]> fenn: ships or canoe?
[14:35:59] <fenn> it does shift around a bit while curing
[14:36:15] <[Harlock]> anybody wants to register concretecnc.org? concretecanoe.org already exists
[14:36:36] <SWPadnos> what about concreteovershoes.net ?
[14:37:00] <lerneaen_hydra> Jessica, is the surface nice and polished or noticably uneven to the touch?
[14:37:14] <skunkworks560> http://www.elektronikforumet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18483&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
[14:37:22] <[Harlock]> yeah we have biker gangs here who would put your feet in concrete and throw you in the river
[14:38:03] <maddash> Jessica: don't youalready have a mill?
[14:38:45] <maddash> Jessica: for the pcbs, I mean
[14:39:27] <Jessica> yes, mad, but its very underpowered
[14:41:04] <maddash> wow, I think I qualify as "hardcore": http://www.google.com/search?q=site:www.linuxcnc.org+maddash+filetype:txt&hl=en&client=iceweasel-a&rls=org.debian:en-US:unofficial&start=90&sa=N ==> 10 pages, 140 results
[14:41:37] <maddash> correction: 127 results, 13 pages
[14:41:51] <fenn> what's hardcore now?
[14:42:07] <Jessica> my first mill only used nema 17's that i scrounged from floppy drives. my new one uses nema 23's i got from probotix.
[14:42:38] <maddash> so, get bigger steppers?
[14:42:41] <skunkworks560> ummm http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=iceweasel-a&rls=org.debian%3Aen-US%3Aunofficial&q=site%3Awww.linuxcnc.org+skunkworks+filetype%3Atxt
[14:43:03] <Jessica> xemet, shame, but I don't speak italian
[14:43:35] <lerneaen_hydra> maddash, you've got a while to go yet :p
[14:43:42] <Jessica> mad, my first mill only used 3/8" rods. i get too much play in that for any kind of heavy work.
[14:44:47] <Jessica> but, i realized a mistake in my new mill that is making me angry. the 1/4"-20 drive rods are way too small.
[14:45:17] <fenn> Jessica: round bars are always going to flex.
[14:45:33] <lerneaen_hydra> Jessica, are they supported only at the ends?
[14:45:54] <Jessica> 5/8" seems pretty meaty for a 18" work area.
[14:46:06] <fenn> you have to firmly support it on one side
[14:46:11] <Jessica> my work area is 18"x18"x6"
[14:46:16] <skunkworks560> jessica: have you been on cnczone.com?
[14:46:24] <Jessica> yeah, skunk
[14:46:37] <Jessica> rods supported on both ends.
[14:47:54] <maddash> why the heck are comments parsed and checked by the rs274ngc interp?
[14:48:42] <fenn> in case they are special comments
[14:48:56] <Jessica> so, is anyone in here using wood?
[14:48:56] <fenn> (yes, it's stupid)
[14:49:47] <fenn> Jessica: http://buildyouridea.com/cnc/IG-88/phase_two/phase_two.html
[14:51:29] <Jessica> fenn, nice idea
[14:51:43] <fenn> i dont suggest combining steel and aluminum though - the coefficient of thermal expansion is different
[14:52:52] <Jessica> so, would an aluminum rod wear too quickly?
[14:52:58] <fenn> * fenn shrugs
[14:53:18] <Jessica> Alcoa could extrude the whole silly thing.
[14:53:18] <ALS> use shorter alluminum struts
[14:53:35] <lerneaen_hydra> alu. extrusions are inherently crooked
[14:53:37] <fenn> some aluminum alloys are 'as hard as steel'
[14:53:43] <SWPadnos> FORTAL!
[14:53:58] <fenn> i am mousebar! hear me roar!
[14:53:58] <SWPadnos> strong as stell anyway - maybe not as hard
[14:54:01] <SWPadnos> err - steel
[14:54:04] <Jessica> lern, really?
[14:54:16] <fenn> nothing is perfect
[14:54:53] <Jessica> brb. phone call
[14:54:54] <lerneaen_hydra> they're a lot more crooked than other things like cold rolled axles and so on
[14:55:34] <lerneaen_hydra> I can't say I recall a rule-of-thumb amount, I just remember it's significant
[14:56:16] <fenn> Jessica: what i'd do, is bed a cold rolled rod into some epoxy, on a nice fat square steel tube (packed full of sand)
[14:56:33] <lerneaen_hydra> extrusions are essentially like a pasta press
[14:56:47] <fenn> or is it the other way around?
[14:57:21] <fenn> since play-doh is edible, if you extrude play-doh, is it pasta?
[14:57:38] <lerneaen_hydra> O_o
[14:57:53] <skunkworks560> * skunkworks560 never had play-doh.
[14:57:54] <lerneaen_hydra> depends on how drunk you are
[15:00:45] <lerneaen_hydra> http://www.midstal.com/content/default.asp?id=14 specs their alu extrusions as 1/2 degree rotation per foot, and 0.0125" per foot
[15:01:02] <lerneaen_hydra> which is a very significant amount for a mill
[15:01:06] <Jessica> fenn wants me to bed a cold rolled rod? err... umm... *blushes*
[15:01:35] <skunkworks560> heh ;)
[15:01:37] <Dallur> I would take cold rolled steel over aluminum extrusions any day of the week
[15:01:45] <lerneaen_hydra> hell thats 1mm/meter!
[15:01:48] <cradek> I'm here now
[15:02:03] <Jessica> hi chris.
[15:02:25] <Jessica> chris, what matl did you make your mill out of?
[15:02:56] <fenn> mini-millium
[15:03:11] <cradek> max (the little mill) is all aluminum
[15:03:30] <cradek> I didn't make all of it - only the parts that aren't blue
[15:03:54] <fenn> it's ground and hard anodized right?
[15:04:27] <cradek> yes the blue parts are (all the ways are blue)
[15:04:29] <fenn> (no shiny silver spots on the way surfaces)
[15:04:43] <cradek> it has worn pretty well, it has seen a lot of use
[15:05:07] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek, do you know what material travels along the ways? HDPE?
[15:05:33] <Jessica> maybe someday i'll use aluminum. *sighs*
[15:05:50] <cradek> lerneaen_hydra: I don't understand - it's all aluminum
[15:05:56] <Jessica> (unemployed and broke at the moment.)
[15:06:14] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek, um, I doubt It's alu-alu along the ways, surely there's a plastic bearing?
[15:06:14] <cradek> Jessica: it's kind of expensive now
[15:06:18] <fenn> aluminum is not the best material for a cutting machine
[15:06:28] <lerneaen_hydra> fenn, it's cheap :p
[15:06:33] <lerneaen_hydra> easy to extrude
[15:06:33] <fenn> not really
[15:06:34] <cradek> lerneaen_hydra: it is, it's anodized
[15:06:52] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek, so the ways are alu-alu?
[15:06:54] <cradek> no plastic on it except the two leadnuts
[15:06:57] <lerneaen_hydra> whoa
[15:07:01] <lerneaen_hydra> interesting
[15:07:25] <lerneaen_hydra> what materials have you cut in it?
[15:07:45] <maddash> Al is crappy
[15:07:59] <maddash> it's either too soft, or if you anodize it, too brittle
[15:07:59] <cradek> I have cut steel a couple times, aluminum more times, usually things much easier
[15:08:13] <maddash> why would you make a mill out of AL?
[15:08:19] <fenn> maddash: anodizing only affects the surface layer (.001")
[15:08:27] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek, hmm, I see, and the steel chips didn't scratch the anodisation?
[15:08:40] <maddash> yeah, but how do you know exactly how deep the anodizing oges?
[15:08:46] <fenn> yes
[15:08:56] <maddash> my dad once had a pair of shears anodized
[15:08:56] <cradek> I was careful. I only cut steel on it when I was pretty desperate
[15:09:15] <lerneaen_hydra> you'd think that when crushed the steel chips would be capable of penerating the anodisation
[15:09:17] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, I see
[15:09:22] <cradek> it's retired from that now that I have a real mill
[15:09:30] <maddash> when he dropped them after he got them back, the damn pieces broke in half
[15:09:31] <lerneaen_hydra> you've got something better now?
[15:09:39] <cradek> I have an old bridgeport cnc now
[15:09:45] <maddash> cradek: cheers!
[15:09:45] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, nice :)
[15:10:02] <Jessica> sheesh. i'd love one of those! no place to put it though
[15:10:04] <maddash> cradek: which model?
[15:10:19] <cradek> series 1, R2E3, ~ 1983
[15:10:43] <skunkworks560> who hasn't seen cradeks videos? http://youtube.com/watch?v=7WCrqqoZkPg
[15:10:43] <Jessica> chris, what is your work area?
[15:11:01] <skunkworks560> http://youtube.com/watch?v=0jQy-zc5P6w
[15:11:03] <maddash> cradek: wow, that's almost the same as mine
[15:11:36] <maddash> cradek: do you use the old style drivers as well?
[15:12:12] <cradek> Jessica: about 4.5x6.5 on max, 12x18 on the bp
[15:12:35] <cradek> maddash: I'm currently using the original control and servos, which I patched up to working again
[15:12:46] <ALS> Jessica Chris posted this a day or so ago for a low friction lead screw nut http://www.hobbycnc.hu/CNC/Otletek/Otletek.htm
[15:13:09] <Jessica> thx
[15:13:44] <Jessica> everytime i mess with this stuff i learn something new... and wish i had learned it before i started the project!
[15:14:04] <maddash> cradek: 'orig control' = the board with gigantic components, right?
[15:14:26] <fenn> ALS: that's not exactly easy to build without machine tools
[15:14:29] <lerneaen_hydra> ALS, interesting, seems like you could get very low backlash with that
[15:14:52] <ALS> yep and yep
[15:15:14] <lerneaen_hydra> too bad it's not in english
[15:15:15] <Jessica> als, could you pls repost that link?
[15:15:24] <ALS> http://www.hobbycnc.hu/CNC/Otletek/Otletek.htm
[15:15:28] <Jessica> ty
[15:16:10] <lerneaen_hydra> ALS, the second linear slide on that site seems to be prone to chips getting stuck in the wheels, do you know anyhting about that?
[15:16:24] <ALS> I don't think it's easy with machine tools
[15:17:11] <cradek> maddash: the original control is made up of many circuit boards
[15:18:52] <ALS> lerneaen_hydra: maybe you could use a nylon wiper like a ballnut uses
[15:19:11] <maddash> cradek: of course. the BOSS tape machine alone occupies a gigantic box of boards. I'm referring to the driver boards, though, because I'm curious of how you hooked up the pc to your steppers
[15:19:34] <lerneaen_hydra> ALS, hmm, true, should work
[15:19:42] <cradek> maddash: it's a servo machine, I don't have a tape drive, and there's no pc
[15:19:55] <lerneaen_hydra> if you machine in something soft it may not even do any damage
[15:20:18] <maddash> bah.
[15:20:43] <ALS> not yet cradek
[15:21:12] <cradek> yes it will be EMC one of these days, but currently it's working on the original control
[15:22:18] <ALS> my Index was just to expencive to repair so retroed
[15:23:06] <cradek> EMC would be better than BOSS8 in almost every way
[15:23:41] <maddash> no shit
[15:23:46] <ALS> must agree and you wont be happy untill you do it
[15:24:19] <fenn> a curse will hang over your head, and your garage shall be a blight upon the house
[15:24:51] <cradek> nah, the only cursing is me at it when my program is over "100 feet" long
[15:26:29] <maddash> cradek: welcome to my world
[15:26:57] <maddash> i can't use emc until i can figure out how to hook up the parport to the driver boards
[15:27:01] <cradek> yours is the stepper model?
[15:27:07] <maddash> yes
[15:27:20] <cradek> I hear you should throw those boards out and get geckos
[15:27:34] <cradek> those boards constantly fry their driver transistors
[15:27:39] <ALS> what size steppers
[15:27:59] <cradek> I'd do that in a minute if I had one (and I wanted to keep it stepper)
[15:28:00] <lerneaen_hydra> maddash, you're still stuck with the tiny mill?
[15:28:01] <maddash> why? they use grey code (extra steps per base-threead), and the components are large enough to replace by hand
[15:28:02] <BigJohnT> The 203v's are nice gecko
[15:28:22] <maddash> lerneaen_hydra: sadly.
[15:28:28] <lerneaen_hydra> :(
[15:28:46] <maddash> lerneaen_hydra: but it's not tiny. don't bad-mouth it or it'll get angry.
[15:28:48] <cradek> sure, you can keep fixing the original boards
[15:28:55] <cradek> whatever works
[15:29:14] <lerneaen_hydra> maddash, how much travel?
[15:29:17] <cradek> stepgen will happily generate quadrature for you
[15:29:36] <cradek> all the series 1 are about 12x18
[15:29:47] <maddash> 12" by ~18
[15:29:49] <cradek> quill 5 knee about 16
[15:30:33] <maddash> you can reach higher speeds with quadrature than with the usual step_type=0
[15:31:02] <cradek> yes quadrature is better than step/dir in every way
[15:31:19] <cradek> (except popularity)
[15:31:51] <maddash> which makes quad great for me: arcane, leet, cool.
[15:32:33] <fenn> you werent supposed to say that part out loud
[15:33:14] <cradek> arcane/cool is fixing the original control and getting a tape punch
[15:33:29] <cradek> don't confuse that with being cheap :-)
[15:33:54] <cradek> fenn: oh was mine an inside thought too?
[15:34:06] <maddash> using a tape reader would be arcane/archaic/slow as hell
[15:34:19] <[Harlock]> I have some unused punch cards if anybody is interested
[15:34:33] <cradek> the machine moves pretty slow - I bet the tape drive can easily keep up.
[15:34:54] <maddash> I wasn't referring to the machine movement
[15:37:09] <maddash> ...the 1982 version of "File > Open > OK"...
[15:37:14] <lerneaen_hydra> maddash, which step drives are you using?
[15:37:31] <jepler> hm, this guy reports that his geckos run the machine much slower than the original drivers (30IPM vs 100IPM): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/message/14205 -- otoh it sounds like he was running a low voltage ("40 Volts AC")
[15:38:04] <cradek> the original drives are 4 transistors and saturable inductors to limit steady-state current
[15:38:41] <lerneaen_hydra> O_o an inductance? wait, how's it connected
[15:38:49] <lerneaen_hydra> unipolar I presume
[15:38:52] <maddash> why is "/* Interp::ini_load()" lacking the "!"?
[15:39:04] <fenn> lerneaen_hydra: it's a way of amplifying a signal without tubes or transistors
[15:39:07] <cradek> yes I think they're unipolar
[15:39:21] <BigJohnT> The timing of the 201 is much longer than the 203's
[15:39:35] <lerneaen_hydra> fenn, ? what do you mean?
[15:39:56] <fenn> lerneaen_hydra: you can saturate a transformer core with a high-turn low-current coil, and this will prevent current flowing in the low-turns high current coil around the same core
[15:41:14] <fenn> only works for AC
[15:41:21] <lerneaen_hydra> oh a transformer, don't you mean that the low-turn high-current coil will let even more current pass through after saturation?
[15:41:45] <fenn> yes, i might
[15:42:24] <cradek> jepler: I suspect he's doing something wrong but it's hard to guess what it is
[15:42:44] <fenn> i think there are two ways of hooking it up
[15:45:57] <jepler> if there are two or more ways to hook something up, the careful designer will ensure that all but the correct one causes smoke to be produced.
[15:46:06] <jepler> that way, the integrator can be sure whether he's got it hooked up right.
[15:46:27] <fenn> smoke signals
[15:46:42] <lerneaen_hydra> err. I'm not sure I would say smoke it what you'd want
[15:46:55] <lerneaen_hydra> maybe a DISABLED led or something?
[15:47:08] <fenn> this is pre-LED technology, sonny
[15:47:26] <lerneaen_hydra> then again if you get them to make it smoke you'll sell more products, for a while at least
[15:47:36] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, we're talking about old hardware now
[15:48:11] <jepler> wikipedia says the LED was discovered as early as 1907 .. (but ignored) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Round
[15:49:42] <fenn> fun with grinding wheels and mains current
[15:55:44] <archivist> oo looks like a well researched article for a change
[15:57:46] <maddash> has strstr been outdated?
[16:05:59] <maddash> holy crap, 'r' is treated differently than "r" by gcc
[16:06:26] <cradek> uh, those mean very different things in C
[16:06:50] <cradek> 'r' is a character, "r" is a null-terminated string of length 1
[16:07:16] <maddash> so what's 'cradek', with respect to "cradek"
[16:07:17] <maddash> ?
[16:07:26] <cradek> 'cradek' is invalid C
[16:08:24] <maddash> [sigh] no shift key love
[16:10:33] <SWPadnos> 'cradek' should be a set of char constants (at least it would be for most microcontroller implementations I've seen, I think)
[16:10:42] <SWPadnos> as opposed to a null-terminated string
[16:11:10] <cradek> that's not C
[16:11:16] <SWPadnos> that could be assembly ;)
[16:11:26] <alex_joni> not ANSI C.. but it's C sometimes
[16:11:39] <alex_joni> some compilers accept that for embedded targets
[16:11:51] <SWPadnos> right
[16:12:07] <cradek> well we could argue about what C is, but let's not
[16:12:20] <SWPadnos> you could load a long (assuming it's 32 bits) with a char constant, like 'ABCD' (assuming chars are 8 bits)
[16:12:31] <cradek> yargggh
[16:12:32] <maddash> ah, there we go
[16:12:33] <SWPadnos> sure - there are books for those kinds of question
[16:20:35] <maddash> does the string, "ski" hold a special meaning in polish? I notice that a lot of proper nouns are appended with "ski" : roman polanSKI, 'polSKI', etc.
[16:24:44] <alex_joni> polski means polish
[16:24:56] <SWPadnos> http://www.polishroots.org/surnames/surnames_endings.htm
[16:27:35] <maddash> interesting...
[16:28:32] <SWPadnos> Polish is not an easy language to learn
[16:41:06] <jepler> cradek: fwiw gcc accepts this program (with a warning):
[16:41:07] <jepler> #include <stdio.h>
[16:41:07] <jepler> int main(void) { int x = '\x10\x20\x30\x40'; printf("%x\n", x); return 0; }
[16:41:11] <jepler> $ gcc whatever.c && ./a.out
[16:41:11] <jepler> whatever.c:2:26: warning: multi-character character constant
[16:41:11] <jepler> 10203040
[16:46:06] <cradek> that's perverse
[16:49:20] <jepler> actually, the C standard's syntax rule for character-constant is: ' c-char-sequence ' (page 59); "the value of an integer character constant containing more than one character [...] is implementation defined" (page 61) http://www.open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG14/www/docs/n1256.pdf
[16:49:46] <cradek> oh so it is C
[16:50:05] <cradek> my bad
[16:50:20] <cradek> it's C but you don't know what it will do :-)
[16:50:25] <jepler> you're right that it's not portable and that 'cradek' means something different than "cradek".
[16:53:46] <maddash> how do I grep parentheses? `grep -G '\(' *` gives an unmatched ( err...
[16:53:55] <maddash> whoops, wrong channel
[16:54:46] <cradek> strange, the graphing HP calculators with 4 lines of displayed stack sell cheaper than the older basic models with one line displays
[16:55:02] <cradek> (ebay pricing I mean)
[16:55:15] <cradek> I wonder if people want them to collect, not to use
[16:55:23] <cradek> or maybe the graphing ones are too big?
[16:57:40] <alex_joni> in a rack tool changer.. how many tools are usual?
[16:58:41] <alex_joni> I mean a linear rack with tools lined up (case where the spindle needs to go to different positions to pick different tools up)
[16:59:58] <cradek> I'd put as many as fit along the table
[17:00:32] <alex_joni> I'm thinking about how to specify the locations in the ini
[17:00:59] <alex_joni> I am inclined towards having multiple TOOL_CHANGE_LOCATION (or whatever the exact name is)
[17:01:21] <alex_joni> that way you're not limited to linear, even distribution
[17:01:42] <cradek> unsurprisingly I want a different thing :-)
[17:01:55] <alex_joni> what's that?
[17:02:06] <cradek> I want the tool change location to be like g28/g30 where you can change it without editing the ini and restarting
[17:02:47] <cradek> there's a hole in the var file between g28 and g30 - we could use that space for tool change location
[17:02:58] <alex_joni> so you want a single tool change location?
[17:03:16] <alex_joni> or you think about changing the location before each toolchange?
[17:03:34] <cradek> well I see this as different from what you're talkin gabout
[17:03:44] <cradek> you want a sequence of moves depending on the T number
[17:04:02] <cradek> for my machine, it has to go "somewhere" and prompt me and wait, then continue
[17:04:22] <alex_joni> right, that's why I'm asking.. I want to cover as much as possible
[17:04:23] <cradek> and really, the "somewhere" depends on what's clamped to the table
[17:05:24] <alex_joni> cradek: maybe the way to do is to have a possibility to overload g-codes
[17:05:44] <alex_joni> then you can overload M6 and be done with it
[17:05:49] <alex_joni> and I could overload Txx I guess
[17:05:57] <alex_joni> both Txx and M6
[17:06:07] <SWPadnos> alex - are you thinking about implementing an automatic tool change (with the linear array)?
[17:06:18] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: yeah
[17:06:31] <SWPadnos> ok - that's a bit more complex
[17:06:42] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: there are ATCs with linear arrays
[17:06:54] <cradek> a linear array is only one shape your new solution should allow
[17:07:02] <SWPadnos> it's the same problem as we had with the Mazak, but this time with tool motion instead of turret rotation
[17:07:07] <cradek> a new solution should let us sequentially combine arbitrary motion and IO
[17:07:19] <alex_joni> cradek: indeed
[17:07:37] <SWPadnos> you need to move to the old position, drop the tool, go to the new position, get the new tool
[17:08:22] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure how you'd use G-code to set up those positions / moves (though it could almost be done with subroutines)
[17:08:52] <SWPadnos> yes, arbitrary motion + I/O sequencing would be very nice :)
[17:09:29] <alex_joni> I/O sequencing might be doable from g-code nowadays
[17:10:43] <alex_joni> http://private.addcom.de/rc-hobby/sonst/emc/ww1.png
[17:11:42] <SWPadnos> plus possible spindle orient or that kind of thing (around moves 2 and 3)
[17:12:21] <alex_joni> right
[17:12:51] <alex_joni> by looking at that, and a similar scenario for a different machine I think it's clear that we can't code it to be flexible enough
[17:13:22] <cradek> that's easily done at the canon level
[17:13:46] <cradek> if we would clean that up so it's easier to write the moves in C, and then be able to dynamically load it, that would be a very good step
[17:14:05] <cradek> I wonder if it can be loaded like kins
[17:14:20] <alex_joni> for user-space code?
[17:14:41] <cradek> is that harder?
[17:15:14] <alex_joni> err.. lost me there
[17:16:01] <cradek> half-baked
[17:16:12] <alex_joni> I'm not sure what the mechanisms are for dyn linking
[17:16:34] <alex_joni> but this still needs people to compile things.. not sure that's the best solution
[17:16:51] <alex_joni> maybe if it were python or something interpreted
[17:16:56] <alex_joni> (even g-code)
[17:17:04] <alex_joni> * alex_joni runs for a quick snack.. back in 10
[17:17:07] <cradek> that might be possible too
[17:21:01] <daveengvall__> anybody awake?
[17:24:05] <daveengvall__> apparently everyone is OTL ;-)
[17:25:22] <SWPadnos> On The Lamb?
[17:25:34] <daveengvall__> Hi Steven
[17:25:41] <SWPadnos> hi Dave
[17:25:54] <daveengvall__> perhaps you can help
[17:26:02] <daveengvall__> I just loaded 2.2.2-1
[17:26:20] <daveengvall__> and am testing (again) with the motenc-100.
[17:26:48] <daveengvall__> I have passable manual tuning from just jogging but now need to home.
[17:27:11] <SWPadnos> nope - I can't help ;)
[17:27:25] <daveengvall__> Ah darned.
[17:27:37] <daveengvall__> so far I can't find the right switches
[17:27:37] <SWPadnos> I don't know if I've ever seen a Motenc board :)
[17:27:47] <daveengvall__> Opps!
[17:27:50] <SWPadnos> are you homing to index?
[17:27:52] <daveengvall__> in software
[17:27:58] <SWPadnos> ah
[17:28:29] <daveengvall__> I want it to home either when I click on home or search for index and then home
[17:28:32] <SWPadnos> do you mean that you don't know where the "home" button is, or you don't know which settings to change for homing?
[17:28:48] <SWPadnos> ok, option 2 :)
[17:28:59] <daveengvall__> I've tried HOME_ON_INDEX
[17:29:03] <SWPadnos> home then index though
[17:29:06] <daveengvall__> IN .ini
[17:29:38] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html//config_ini_homing.html
[17:30:17] <daveengvall__> cradek .. OK. searching the wiki didn't get much that was useful
[17:30:39] <cradek> yeah, you have to start at linuxcnc.org, then click documentation in that top bar
[17:30:58] <cradek> bbl
[17:31:08] <daveengvall__> I'll go check ... if that doesn't do it then I'll be back.
[17:31:29] <daveengvall__> actually I'll be back later anyway. TNX
[17:51:13] <Martzis> jepler: Hi! I tested this: http://pastebin.com/m14ea6ec8 Now numbering is a little better but events are not rocogniced anymore. It says Unexpected event EV_ABS ABS_THOTTLE
[17:59:20] <jepler> Martzis: OK, that's too bad ..
[18:00:35] <Martzis> In linux_event.py there are these tables which map hex values and button and axis names
[18:00:58] <Martzis> can I alter these names or are these defines also somewrere else?
[18:01:01] <Martzis> defined
[18:01:19] <jepler> sure, it's worth a try
[18:01:29] <Martzis> i'll test
[18:02:08] <Martzis> Other thing I would do is to force 2nd joystick axles to reletive
[18:02:24] <Martzis> because they are encoder inputs
[18:08:39] <maddash> what is this linux_event contraption?
[18:11:42] <jepler> maddash: linux has "/dev/input" for all supported input devices. linux_event.py is a Python module which provides an object-oriented API to the /dev/input devices, and is used by hal_input.
[18:12:57] <alex_joni> bbl
[18:13:58] <jepler> so, basically, any linux input device can be turned into a pendant or control panel for emc using hal_input and halui
[18:20:36] <Martzis> I got button names in order!
[18:21:06] <Martzis> And also previously missing buttons are now listed
[18:21:52] <maddash> jepler: whoa. cool.
[18:22:27] <maddash> maybe I can hack a mouse into a rotary switch or something
[18:22:44] <jepler> yes, mice are among the supported devices
[18:23:16] <jepler> you can also homebrew the hardware, as Martzis has done -- I gather it's something based on a microcontroller, with about 64 digital inputs and some analog inputs as well.
[18:23:34] <maddash> I need a second knob to control axis speed, and i'd prefer not to add YET another PCI parport
[18:23:56] <jepler> I also dabbled in that: http://axis.unpy.net/01187535387
[18:24:10] <gezar> would that work with say a usb input device?
[18:24:43] <maddash> I think that IS usb device...
[18:24:45] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler, that runs in userspace, right?
[18:24:45] <jepler> gezar: most USB HID devices are supported by linux
[18:24:50] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: yes, it is userspace
[18:25:01] <jepler> so it's no good for, say, position feedback
[18:25:11] <gezar> has anyone tried using one of those multi button ps2 style controlers?
[18:25:15] <lerneaen_hydra> ok, have you had good behavior with it?
[18:25:43] <lerneaen_hydra> I have only had bad experiences with keyboard jogging, with latency that at times can be up to several hundred milliseconds
[18:25:49] <SWPadnos> yes, I think xemet used those early on
[18:26:12] <jepler> I have used it for a pause/resume button, and for jogging. It works OK -- any problems I'd attribute to the terrible mechanical knob I was using, not to the software or interface.
[18:26:13] <maddash> what's wrong with your arrow keys?
[18:26:28] <maddash> lerneaen_hydra: ^^
[18:26:37] <Martzis> http://www.martsola.com/valikko/13CNC-jyrsinprojekti/25Osia%20valmistuu/powermate.avi
[18:26:46] <lerneaen_hydra> maddash, I'm not sure, but I've seen that behavior on multiple setups
[18:26:57] <Martzis> PowerMate is also a USB HID device
[18:27:01] <lerneaen_hydra> I've assumed it's a userspace/keyboard buffer limitation
[18:27:08] <gezar> i think this stick i have in my had has 3 axis pads, 16 buttons or so
[18:27:18] <gezar> hand
[18:27:35] <lerneaen_hydra> usually there's no noticable latency, occasionally though it can go up to hundreds of ms with no warning
[18:27:39] <maddash> 'stick' isn't some innuendo, is it?
[18:27:39] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra shrugs
[18:27:50] <SWPadnos> Martzis, can you also control the LED as a digital output?
[18:27:57] <gezar> oh lord, sigh
[18:28:05] <maddash> Martzis: dude. BLACK.
[18:28:06] <lerneaen_hydra> maddash, I don't think they tend to have buttons
[18:28:11] <lerneaen_hydra> axes possibly
[18:28:27] <Martzis> SWPadnos: I have not tested
[18:28:35] <lerneaen_hydra> maddash, http://sega.istheshit.net/
[18:28:42] <lerneaen_hydra> semi safe for work
[18:28:51] <SWPadnos> ok - I think you'd see it as <whatever the input device is called>.dout-00 or something
[18:28:56] <maddash> omfg
[18:29:06] <maddash> lerneaen_hydra: wtf? now I have to scratch my eyes out
[18:29:14] <SWPadnos> I know that hal_input lets you use the LEDs on a keyboard that way, for instance
[18:29:30] <lerneaen_hydra> maddash, :D I aim to please
[18:29:34] <SWPadnos> (assuming the keyboard is blocked from use by X/the system)
[18:30:30] <jepler> 3 bit IN FALSE input.0.led-capsl
[18:30:31] <jepler> 3 bit IN FALSE input.0.led-numl
[18:30:31] <jepler> 3 bit IN FALSE input.0.led-scrolll
[18:30:59] <SWPadnos> oh - does the input subsystem return names for you to use?
[18:31:09] <jepler> yes
[18:31:14] <SWPadnos> cool
[18:31:31] <jepler> which is sometimes desirable .. but as Martzis discovered, not always desirable
[18:31:43] <SWPadnos> actually, I think the LED on the powermate would be an analog output - the knob does PWM brightness control IIRC
[18:31:50] <SWPadnos> (err - the controller in the knob)
[18:31:50] <jepler> (his 64 buttons get basically all the different 'button' names the kernel has heard of, with little rhyme or reason to it)
[18:31:57] <SWPadnos> right
[18:32:11] <jepler> SWPadnos: /dev/input doesn't seem to support analog outputs, which is unfortunate
[18:32:20] <jepler> (USB HID does)
[18:32:24] <SWPadnos> ah, in that case I bet it won't work :)
[18:32:42] <SWPadnos> I guess that would only be useful for force feedback devices, in the input realm
[18:33:01] <jepler> yeah there is some kind of FF support but nobody I knew could come up with a linux-supported force feedback device
[18:33:12] <jepler> I don't know how useful that could be with emc anyway
[18:33:30] <lerneaen_hydra> I've found force feedback to be very overrated
[18:33:39] <SWPadnos> I think I brought a FF joystick that works with Linux, but forgot that it uses a joystick port
[18:33:45] <SWPadnos> (to Fest)
[18:34:03] <jepler> oh yeah I think I remember trying to find somewhere to hook that thing up
[18:34:10] <SWPadnos> yep - oops
[18:34:20] <SWPadnos> that and the other 3 controllers I brought
[18:34:39] <SWPadnos> I would have liked to try the cyberpuck
[18:34:42] <maddash> AVR STEPGEN!!!!!!!!!
[18:34:57] <lerneaen_hydra> the type found in simple consumer devices I've tried have been simple motors with counterweights, or at best something with limited control over the joystick's position, though nothing precise enough to use for any real use
[18:35:01] <lerneaen_hydra> avr stepgen?
[18:35:29] <SWPadnos> I have a logitech wingman - it has pretty good feedback
[18:36:12] <SWPadnos> heh: http://protesting.istheshit.net/
[18:36:17] <jepler> I've never used anything beyond the "rumble feature" in game console controllers..
[18:37:10] <SWPadnos> the demos for the wingman are pretty good
[18:37:24] <lerneaen_hydra> SWPadnos, oh, ok
[18:37:28] <SWPadnos> things like a helicopter control, bow draw and release, gunshot
[18:46:08] <maddash> jepler: where can I get an AVR compatible with HIDK?
[18:47:15] <lerneaen_hydra> hidk?
[18:47:59] <jepler> maddash: if I recall correctly, I used an atmega8. I believe that obdev.at's USB stack works with a wide range of AVRs, so long as you clock the AVR at 12MHz or 16MHz. attiny2313 attiny45 attiny26 are mentioned on this page as being possible choices: http://www.obdev.at/products/avrusb/index.html
[18:49:26] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler, any reason not to use mega88s?
[18:49:55] <lerneaen_hydra> the mega8 is afaik depreciated
[18:50:07] <lerneaen_hydra> IIRC the mega88 is pin-compatible
[18:50:35] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: I had a mega8
[18:50:42] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, ok
[18:51:00] <klick0> hey
[18:51:08] <klick0> oops, wrong window :)
[18:51:58] <jepler> hey any klick0
[18:52:12] <klick0> ehhe, hey :)
[18:52:22] <maddash> depreciated, or deprecaated?
[18:52:27] <klick0> deprecated
[18:52:30] <SWPadnos> are you a goat?
[18:52:35] <SWPadnos> deprecaaaaated :)
[18:52:36] <maddash> jepler: ^^
[18:52:37] <lerneaen_hydra> err, depreciated
[18:52:45] <SWPadnos> depreciated is an accounting term
[18:52:49] <klick0> right
[18:52:51] <lerneaen_hydra> wtf?
[18:52:54] <klick0> my house depreciated
[18:53:03] <SWPadnos> ie, the book value has been reduced (depreciation)
[18:53:08] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, well well well
[18:53:14] <jepler> http://www.bartleby.com/68/44/1744.html
[18:53:23] <maddash> no, seriously, I was confused
[18:53:24] <lerneaen_hydra> I was thinking of obscelecence (sp?)
[18:53:26] <SWPadnos> deprecated in software terms means that the thing still exists, but won't for long
[18:53:31] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah exactly
[18:53:34] <SWPadnos> obsolescence
[18:53:35] <lerneaen_hydra> that's what I meant
[18:53:48] <maddash> jepler: I wasn't picking, fyi
[18:54:18] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, is deprecated pronounced with a hard or soft c?
[18:54:26] <jepler> hard "C"
[18:54:29] <maddash> depreKATED
[18:54:31] <lerneaen_hydra> right
[18:54:34] <lerneaen_hydra> thanks
[18:54:44] <SWPadnos> vs. depresheeated
[18:54:54] <klick0> hehe
[18:55:01] <SWPadnos> or depreshe-eighted :)
[18:55:09] <maddash> actually, it's DEP-pre-KATE-ted
[18:55:11] <klick0> i'm gonna go with depresheated
[18:55:20] <SWPadnos> depreshithead
[18:55:32] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, I always thought it was de-PRE-she-ated
[18:55:43] <klick0> lern: that's depreciated
[18:55:53] <SWPadnos> (= a kid who will grow up to be an asshole - "the pre-shithead")
[18:56:12] <lerneaen_hydra> klick0, wasn't that what we were talking about now, after SWPadnos said vs.?
[18:56:12] <klick0> ok who asked this stupid question eheh
[18:56:18] <lerneaen_hydra> that would be me
[18:56:34] <SWPadnos> there are no stupid questions
[18:56:40] <SWPadnos> (only stupid people asking questions :) )
[18:56:47] <lerneaen_hydra> ah you beat me to it :)
[18:56:48] <klick0> ohhhh, well i interpreted his vs. differently
[18:56:51] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:56:52] <klick0> i thought he was joking
[18:56:56] <maddash> where do people buy these fancy electronics parts?
[18:57:03] <klick0> meaning dep-shit(sheat)-ed
[18:57:05] <SWPadnos> digikey
[18:57:06] <lerneaen_hydra> maddash, which?
[18:57:13] <lerneaen_hydra> electronic components?
[18:57:50] <maddash> AVRs, Spartan FPGAs, oscillators, etc
[18:57:58] <SWPadnos> digikey
[18:58:00] <SWPadnos> mouser
[18:58:13] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, IIRC you're based in england, right? farnell should be good then
[18:58:16] <SWPadnos> arrow, avnet, future, allied electronics ...
[18:58:21] <jepler> mouser.com, digikey.com, jameco.com are where I buy most of my electronics. sometimes I shop surplus places like allelectronics.com goldmine-elec.com and other companies spotted in ads back when I read Nuts & Volts Magazine
[18:58:39] <jepler> oh, sparkfun.com has interesting items sometimes
[18:58:51] <lerneaen_hydra> IIRC shipping for mouser and digikey is quite prohibitive to europe
[18:59:08] <jepler> and they also dabble in adapting funny little surface mount or fine pitch items to .1" for breadboard/perfboard prototyping
[18:59:18] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: yeah but I think (?) maddash is in north america
[18:59:24] <SWPadnos> digikey doesn't ship to europe, unless you order from one of their international sites
[18:59:34] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, I thought he was a brit
[18:59:40] <lerneaen_hydra> well now, what are you maddash
[18:59:41] <jepler> if so, my mistake
[19:02:14] <klick0> anyone ever make an dual angular contact bearing block, or any kind of mounting block to prevent axial movement of your lead screw? I need to find some good bearings, and I have an idea of how to put it together, it's not that tough, but just looking for some others that have done it
[19:02:44] <gezar> i have made some wicked huge bull noses using those types of bearings
[19:03:23] <gezar> your after a two bearing simple set up?
[19:03:28] <klick0> yea
[19:03:50] <maddash> lerneaen_hydra: I am legend.
[19:04:10] <klick0> mcmaster doesn't have angular contact bearings in inches, though, only metric.. i'm thinking of using a 3/4" or 7/8" inch acme precision lead screw
[19:04:11] <maddash> jepler: you are correct.
[19:04:25] <gezar> then what youll need is a way to hold the outer races tight to each other, then same for the inner races, which angle you choose to mount them does
[19:04:52] <maddash> so... digikey?
[19:05:05] <gezar> I dont know how the mcmaster car catalogue shows them but they normally have a line through a ball like a / or a \
[19:05:09] <klick0> yea, they have to be "preloaded" with some amount of force, that's why i was looking to see how others do that
[19:05:30] <gezar> buy a matched set, that is ground for race to race
[19:05:39] <jepler> IMO, out of mouser, digikey, and jameco, digikey has the best product selector. on the other hand, mouser and jameco don't have a minimum order
[19:05:39] <klick0> right, i know what you're saying, i think
[19:05:45] <klick0> oh, matched set
[19:05:46] <xemet> hi
[19:05:49] <klick0> hi
[19:05:52] <xemet> about the pluto-P
[19:05:54] <lerneaen_hydra> maddash, you're not from england?
[19:06:01] <lerneaen_hydra> funny..
[19:06:02] <gezar> klick0: you following me?
[19:06:05] <maddash> lerneaen_hydra: I wish
[19:06:06] <lerneaen_hydra> were you there before?
[19:06:07] <SWPadnos> DK has no minimum order, they'll just charge you $5.00 if the order is < $25
[19:06:11] <klick0> yea, not sure what race to race is
[19:06:15] <jepler> SWPadnos: oh ok
[19:06:17] <xemet> I've set pluto-servo.pwm.0.pwmdir to 1
[19:06:19] <klick0> inner or outer part of the bearing?
[19:06:25] <gezar> klick0: yep
[19:06:28] <lerneaen_hydra> I seem to recall someone with a micromill from a college in england
[19:06:31] <xemet> how do I refer to the dir pin?
[19:06:50] <gezar> klick0: the other option is to go random, and then grind inner/outer spacers
[19:07:21] <klick0> yea
[19:07:34] <lerneaen_hydra> maddash, if you're in the US then farnell is probably not the best idea, digikey or mouser are probably better bets
[19:07:34] <klick0> i want to just buy a premade block, that would be nice :)
[19:07:37] <maddash> lerneaen_hydra: england, nope. micromill, no. Bridgeport and college, yes.
[19:07:44] <lerneaen_hydra> from my experience
[19:07:45] <gezar> which sucks to do, so go with a matched set then use them in the proper order like \/ so that the bearings have oposing thrust vectors
[19:07:45] <klick0> actually hmm, i might be able to find some place
[19:07:53] <maddash> bah, the digikey hegemony
[19:08:12] <klick0> xemet: what do you mean, refer to it, how do you tell it which direction to go?
[19:08:12] <xemet> someone could help me with the Pluto-P?
[19:08:16] <lerneaen_hydra> maddash, oh, so you're not the guy with an absolutely tiny mill. I wonder who that was.
[19:08:42] <jepler> xemet: in pwmdir mode, the hardware pin normally called "UP" becomes PWM and "DOWN" becomes "DIR".
[19:08:43] <xemet> manual says that the pin is shared with the output pin 11
[19:08:59] <gezar> klick0: the other way is /\ but reguardless of how you do it, you have to have something gripping the outer races, say a spanner nut, then the inner races, nut on the screw, puling inner races against a flat right before the ball screw section begins
[19:09:00] <xemet> If I want to hook a signal to the dir pin, how is it called?
[19:09:05] <lerneaen_hydra> anyone else recall who it was that came here some time ago with a diminutive mill placed on a bed, apparently because of lack of space in the dorm room?
[19:09:31] <cradek> I remember looking at his website...
[19:09:45] <xemet> in the normal pwm component, I've "pwmgen.0.dir"
[19:09:46] <jepler> you don't hook a signal to the DIR pin. Both PWM and DIR are driven based on the HAL pin pwm.#.value and related parameters and enable
[19:09:54] <klick0> gezar: right, ok thanks
[19:10:04] <gezar> klick0: its not something easy to build but if you have a lathe its not going to be bad at all
[19:10:15] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek, seems we both remember as much then...
[19:10:16] <maddash> lerneaen_hydra: ditto.
[19:10:20] <klick0> yea i don't have a lathe, that's one of the issues :)
[19:10:24] <xemet> but I need a dir pin...
[19:10:40] <xemet> jepler, remember your configuration for the two tiny servos?
[19:10:49] <klick0> xemet: just always move your mill in one direction, it's more fun that way
[19:10:51] <jepler> DIR is not a HAL pin. It is a physical pin.
[19:10:53] <gezar> klick0: then your going to have to buy blocks
[19:11:10] <xemet> ok, what pin is it?
[19:11:24] <xemet> pluto-servo.dout.11 ?
[19:11:35] <jepler> look here: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/hal_drivers.html#fig:Pluto-Step-Pinout
[19:11:56] <xemet> I've looked at it
[19:11:58] <jepler> er, wrong link
[19:12:04] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/hal_drivers.html#pluto-servo%20pinout
[19:12:24] <jepler> the output of the pluto PWM generator number 0 is on the physical pins labeled UP0 and DN0
[19:12:25] <xemet> ok
[19:12:36] <cradek> lerneaen_hydra: crepincdotcom
[19:12:38] <xemet> so the dir pin should be dout11
[19:12:40] <xemet> ?
[19:12:49] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek, ah, that may well be
[19:13:40] <jepler> if in HAL you hook some signal to the HAL pin called pluto-servo.dout.11, then that value will interfere (be exclusive-or'd with) with the DIR or DOWN value generated by the PWM generator number 0.
[19:13:56] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek, hmm, to bad the page seems dead (crepinc.com)
[19:14:13] <cradek> yeah I saw that too
[19:14:20] <cradek> I'm pretty sure that's the right name though
[19:14:48] <xemet> in the configuration that used the parallel port, I had the pwm dir pin hooked to one pin of the parallel port, a signal hooked to it and that signal hooked to another pin of the parallel port, inverted
[19:15:05] <xemet> so I was able to drive the L298
[19:15:11] <xemet> in both direction
[19:15:25] <xemet> I would like to do the same with the pluto
[19:15:48] <xemet> like in the etch.hal
[19:16:52] <jepler> the relationship between the hardware pins and the PWM generator within the pluto are "hard wired". You can't modify them.
[19:17:34] <xemet> I would like something like that:
[19:17:37] <xemet> linksp Xdir => parport.0.pin-02-out
[19:17:38] <xemet> linksp Xdir => parport.0.pin-04-out
[19:17:38] <xemet> setp parport.0.pin-04-out-invert TRUE
[19:17:51] <xemet> how could I do the same with the pluto?
[19:17:56] <jepler> in this case, I think you could synthesize the "inverted direction" pin (by using a 'comp' block with one of the inputs being 0.0 and the other being the same signal that goes to pluto-servo.pwm.0.value) in HAL and hook it to an unused digital output pin.
[19:18:52] <xemet> but pluto has the invert parameter on the output pins, isn't it?
[19:19:27] <xemet> with halmeter, how could I read the state of the dir pin?
[19:20:30] <jepler> you can't read the "DIR" or "PWM" output of a pluto pwm generator with halscope or halmeter.
[19:20:53] <xemet> ok, so I can't use it
[19:20:56] <jepler> those values are created within the pluto FPGA based on the -value
[19:22:02] <xemet> So I need to create a component that get the sign of the value sent to pwm and output 0 or 1 based on it
[19:22:22] <jepler> what I'm saying is that you *do* have the HAL signal that you hook to pluto-servo.pwm.0.value .. you can find its sign with a 'comp' block, then hook that to any other digital output on the pluto
[19:23:14] <xemet> ok, I've to create this block or there is already a hal component that does the work
[19:23:20] <xemet> ?
[19:23:47] <jepler> man 9 comp
[19:24:18] <maddash> man -l emc2/docs/man/man9/comp.9
[19:25:07] <xemet> ok, sorry, I've thought "comp" was the utility to create hal components
[19:25:18] <maddash> comp is a comp
[19:25:21] <jepler> or you could use a 78xx04 or other "inverter" chip to generate the inverted direction signal 'after' the pluto hardware
[19:25:29] <jepler> that is a different "comp"
[19:25:39] <xemet> well, now I've understood it
[19:25:42] <xemet> fine
[19:25:51] <xemet> will try with this comp
[19:26:00] <xemet> but
[19:26:03] <xemet> last question
[19:27:00] <xemet> if I hook the pluto pin that should be the dir pin to one of the input of the L298 and use comp only to create the inverted signal is it ok?
[19:27:20] <jepler> no, probably that's a bad idea
[19:27:25] <xemet> or I have to use two output pins of the pluto that are not shared?
[19:27:45] <jepler> you would use PWM, DIR, and another OUTxx pin
[19:28:11] <jepler> pluto will generate PWM and the first DIR signal just fine
[19:28:26] <xemet> dir is the physical pin dn0 isn't it?
[19:28:28] <jepler> you use the same input to pluto-servo.pwm.0.value to compute the inverted DIR signal, and hook that to the other outXX pin
[19:28:35] <xemet> ok
[19:28:38] <maddash> jepler: re: http://axis.unpy.net/01187535387 did you buy an avr chip and solder it onto your custom PCB?
[19:28:39] <xemet> understood
[19:28:50] <xemet> many thanks jeff
[19:29:09] <xemet> I go for dinner
[19:29:13] <jepler> if you used a pluto input and a HAL 'not' block, then the second "inverted DIR" signal would change 1ms later than the original one .. that would be bad
[19:29:16] <jepler> see you later
[19:29:41] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler, that board looks very much like eagle to me, is that correct?
[19:29:55] <jepler> maddash: the chip is socketed. but yes, I built and soldered that board and populated it with parts I bought or already had on hand
[19:29:58] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: yes it is eagle
[19:30:37] <lerneaen_hydra> why use the inductance in your circuit, current smoothing?
[19:31:13] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: the AVR datasheet specifies that AVCC should be decoupled with an inductor and capacitor, approximately as shown on that schematic
[19:31:29] <jepler> presumably it will improve the accuracy of the ADC function a tiny bit
[19:31:36] <maddash> jepler: you put in the chip last, right?
[19:32:04] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, are you using the inputs as analog inputs?
[19:32:08] <maddash> jepler: and, did you program the chip over usb?
[19:32:10] <jepler> maddash: yes .. I didn't put the chip in its socket until after all soldering was completed
[19:32:49] <jepler> maddash: no, I programmed it on the parallel port -- notice the DB25 connector on the board
[19:33:40] <lerneaen_hydra> maddash, there's a usb-based in system programmer you can get it you want to program it over usb
[19:33:46] <jepler> My "design" (if you can call it that) was that it would be programmed through the parallel port, then later I could use that same connector to hook up whatever buttons were handy
[19:33:52] <lerneaen_hydra> shouldn't be all too expensive
[19:34:38] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler, is there any time guarantee when in userspace at all?
[19:34:43] <jepler> if you want to play with AVR that can easily be programmed over USB, get an Arduino board http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=666 (once it's programmed you can communicate with it through USB serial)
[19:34:48] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: no
[19:34:57] <lerneaen_hydra> or can the time it takes to do something take inf. time?
[19:34:59] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, I see
[19:35:07] <jepler> I've also interfaced one of those to emc: http://axis.unpythonic.net/01198594294
[19:35:18] <lerneaen_hydra> though the risk of it taking too much time is low?
[19:37:01] <a-l-p-h-a2> lerneaen_hydra, got ut3 yet? :)
[19:37:35] <lerneaen_hydra> a-l-p-h-a, wtf has it been released?!
[19:37:45] <lerneaen_hydra> zomg!
[19:37:53] <lerneaen_hydra> how is it?
[19:38:24] <jepler> bbl
[19:40:00] <maddash> hm, has no one thought of using an avr as a cheap stepgen module?
[19:40:35] <lerneaen_hydra> a-l-p-h-a, aw crud, no linux client :(
[19:40:57] <lerneaen_hydra> maddash, I've pondered the thought many times, as well as using it as an input for servo encoders
[19:41:07] <maddash> and?
[19:41:35] <lerneaen_hydra> I don't have a servo-based system, and my stepper system is fast enough directly from the parport
[19:41:46] <lerneaen_hydra> so I don't need one, though it shouldn't be too hard to do
[19:41:55] <lerneaen_hydra> it shouldn't be particularly hard at all
[19:42:11] <maddash> or perhaps, hooking up a bunch of them to replace motmod
[19:42:39] <lerneaen_hydra> they're quite cheap so getting a couple won't be too expensive
[19:43:54] <maddash> http://sourceforge.net/projects/avrcnc/
[19:44:03] <maddash> amazing
[19:44:03] <jepler> maddash: http://fennetic.net/machines/index.php?motherchip
[19:45:11] <lerneaen_hydra> maddash, nice :)
[19:46:09] <maddash> haha, ieee 1284
[19:46:23] <maddash> oh,wwait that's a parport
[19:48:36] <lerneaen_hydra> a-l-p-h-a, come back and poke me when they've got a linux client
[19:49:22] <maddash> "If we were to do it over again, we would simply remove all the signal wires and re-wire them the way they ought to be, instead of spending three days trying to figure out the naming system and buzzing out all the connections." ROFL
[19:49:52] <maddash> holy crap, that's jmkasunich?
[19:50:25] <lerneaen_hydra> oops I meant a-l-p-h-a2
[19:52:16] <maddash> wow, this fenn guy iss pretty cool
[19:53:16] <ALS> here that fenn
[19:54:04] <maddash> fenn == fenn?
[19:54:41] <lerneaen_hydra> no but fenn == fenn
[19:54:45] <lerneaen_hydra> sorry :p
[20:02:44] <alex_joni> fenn: around?
[20:06:25] <alex_joni> fenn: was wondering if you considered satellite dish linear actuators
[20:07:30] <skunkworks560> they make ball screw type actuators..
[20:07:49] <skunkworks560> (not zero backlash though)
[20:09:42] <alex_joni> skunkworks560: I saw.. but a bit pricey
[20:09:49] <Jymmm> 120vac - Any benefits in fusing the netrual side?
[20:09:51] <alex_joni> ~200$
[20:10:02] <alex_joni> Jymmm: depends
[20:10:15] <alex_joni> what's the target app?
[20:10:21] <Jymmm> Imenat to say both hot and neutral
[20:10:39] <Jymmm> alex_joni: the controller box
[20:11:13] <alex_joni> Jymmm: I usually use P+N breakers
[20:11:35] <alex_joni> (roughly same size & cost..)
[20:11:47] <Jymmm> alex_joni: I have 15A resetable circuit breakers I was considering.
[20:15:52] <skunkworks560> http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2008010314113269&item=5-1577-12&catname=
[20:16:02] <skunkworks560> no clue if it is ball screw or not
[20:17:43] <alex_joni> skunkworks560: http://www.satellitedish.com/cata0057.htm
[20:17:47] <Jymmm> http://www.spal-usa.com/actuators/automated/tech_sheets/LA-IMD3%20Series%20Linear%20Actuatorswpot.pdf
[20:18:50] <skunkworks560> http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Order/Motors/Actuators-PowerJack-Tracker.htm
[20:18:53] <alex_joni> they have limit switches & all..
[20:20:23] <alex_joni> might be a bit slow at 30 IPM
[20:20:38] <skunkworks560> I am sure they would go faster ;)
[20:21:05] <skunkworks560> I think dad has a few... I should play with one.
[20:21:46] <skunkworks560> I don't know what they have for a gear box.. if they are belt driven or gear.
[20:21:58] <alex_joni> gear I think
[20:22:35] <skunkworks560> that might require a little re-design then.
[20:26:04] <Jymmm> alex_joni: P+N breakers ???
[20:28:46] <[Harlock]> jepler: when I start stepconf, I now get an error about the "configuration server". but stepconf lets me reconfigure my mill anyway
[20:28:50] <[Harlock]> Configuration server couldn't be contacted: CORBA error: IDL:omg.org/CORBA/BAD_OPERATION:1.0
[20:29:10] <jepler> [Harlock]: gnome/gtk programs love to print crap like that
[20:29:13] <jepler> I don't know how how to shut it up
[20:29:23] <jepler> some of those messages go away if you are using a full gnome desktop, but I get the impression you're not
[20:29:26] <[Harlock]> I hope nothing was corrupted. I had a couple of hard crash recently
[20:29:34] <[Harlock]> no I'm in kde
[20:29:39] <[Harlock]> but I didn't have them before
[20:29:44] <jepler> dunno then
[20:30:20] <[Harlock]> at least my table x-axis is working
[20:30:30] <Jymmm> cobra?! wow, haven't heard that in years.
[20:30:38] <[Harlock]> gotta build the two other ones
[20:30:50] <[Harlock]> yes corba
[20:31:53] <Jymmm> I hear SOAP today, not cobra.
[20:34:11] <alex_joni> Jymmm: http://www.tradekey.com/product_view/id/199429.htm
[20:34:14] <[Harlock]> I'll try rebooting
[20:38:37] <Jymmm> alex_joni: ah, a little over my head I think =)
[20:39:08] <alex_joni> Jymmm: I don't know if those are available in 110V though..
[20:39:40] <Jymmm> alex_joni: I noticed that, plus it looks DIN rial mounted
[20:39:42] <alex_joni> I get ones like this for about 5-15$
[20:39:52] <alex_joni> right.. DIN rail
[20:40:10] <alex_joni> that's ~10$/3ft
[20:40:15] <alex_joni> maybe less
[20:41:04] <Jymmm> alex_joni: It would be the ONLY thing DIN rail mounted =)
[20:46:46] <[Harlock]> my kernel oopses at the end of the reboot sequence
[20:46:50] <[Harlock]> hehehe
[20:47:08] <Jymmm> If you were to have a transformer custom made 120/220 Primary, but secondary with windings that would allow you to have 1,2,4,8,16, etc so that you could use toggle switches to get the desired voltage, what VA would be good?
[20:48:04] <alex_joni> what do you need it for?
[20:48:04] <[Harlock]> Jymmm: for what kind of load?
[20:48:51] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Night be good for a bench/test supply. if you need various voltages you want to test with w/o having to use a variac
[20:48:57] <Jymmm> Might
[20:49:18] <[Harlock]> Jymmm: it depends on the kind of load you want to drive
[20:49:18] <alex_joni> I'd settle for 1-200 VA
[20:49:26] <[Harlock]> 1V is pretty low
[20:49:46] <[Harlock]> at 200VA, 1V would be 100A
[20:50:12] <alex_joni> maybe something like 5-10A max
[20:50:12] <[Harlock]> even 1V @ 50VA is 50A
[20:50:26] <Jymmm> You think increments of 5V would be ok, or too much?
[20:50:30] <[Harlock]> 10A is reasonable
[20:50:32] <alex_joni> so 10VA at 1V, etc
[20:51:01] <[Harlock]> Jymmm: do you have application where you would use a variac? Usually I need variable DC voltages, but rarely AC
[20:51:33] <lerneaen_hydra> Jymmm, why not use a variac?
[20:51:49] <Jymmm> [Harlock]: Just something I was considering playing with... Also hate having to find the right xmfr when I do want to play around.
[20:52:06] <maddash> a harem of secretaries
[20:52:20] <[Harlock]> Jymmm: forget about 220V at the primary if you plan to have a 10VA xfo
[20:52:42] <Jymmm> [Harlock]: An option for our EU friends
[20:53:08] <[Harlock]> then it should be 50/60Hz as well
[20:53:29] <[Harlock]> What you could consider is another secondary winding of 2V
[20:53:58] <[Harlock]> so you can hook it up in series with the 5V steps to add or remove 2V
[20:54:31] <alex_joni> how about 10 5V windings?
[20:54:47] <lerneaen_hydra> what benefit would this have over a variac?
[20:55:06] <alex_joni> then you can series/parallel for more current or voltage
[20:55:08] <lerneaen_hydra> I can't seem to find anything better other than possibly that you can easily lock to certain voltages
[20:55:10] <Jymmm> alex_joni: That's what I was asking, if 5v inc would be about right, or too much
[20:55:15] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, hmm, I see
[20:55:32] <lerneaen_hydra> then all the steps would have to be the same, and not a 1,2,4,8,16 setup
[20:55:43] <Jymmm> lerneaen_hydra: If I could get this xmfr in qty. It could be universal. one for all your needs (so to speak)
[20:56:04] <[Harlock]> you would then be able to get 2, 5, 7, 8, 10, 12, 13, 15, 17, 18, 20, 22, 23, 25, 27. one secondary with taps at 5, 10, 15, 20 and 25V, the other one 2V only
[20:56:09] <Jymmm> lerneaen_hydra: 1+2+4 = 7 V
[20:57:40] <lerneaen_hydra> Jymmm, what I meant was that to get more power from a low voltage, if you want to connect the outputs in parallel, you'll need to increment them with the same value, 5,5,5,5 for example, as with a 1,2,4,8,16 setup there isn't any way of combining them to get a parallel system
[20:57:55] <lerneaen_hydra> limiting you to a certain current for all voltages
[20:58:24] <[Harlock]> If you could have one xfo with a max of 10A on each tap, it would be good. 300VA sounds good.
[20:58:25] <Jymmm> lerneaen_hydra: oh, yu mean the 1V winding pushing 10 (for example)
[20:58:38] <Jymmm> lerneaen_hydra: oh, you mean the 1V winding pushing 10A (for example)
[20:59:36] <[Harlock]> Jymmm: were you planning to package this transformer in an enclosure with switches and minibreakers?
[20:59:43] <Martzis> jepler: Now I have almost everything working. One small problem I still have. If my analog inputs are in position 0 or 255 when I load hal_input then absolute values will be 127 until I input value changes little.
[20:59:46] <lerneaen_hydra> With that setup I can't see the benefit to having this instead of a variav
[20:59:55] <lerneaen_hydra> *variac
[21:00:26] <jepler> Martzis: yes I am not sure how to get around this problem -- the /dev/input only produces events when the value changes, so it doesn't tell you the initial value
[21:00:26] <[Harlock]> If I had needs for various AC voltages, I would get a variac
[21:00:36] <Jymmm> [Harlock]: No, just the xfmr itself, if you wnated switches you could add them yourself, or you could just wire it up as needed for the desired voltage.
[21:02:11] <lerneaen_hydra> Jymmm, when would you use this transformer with a crapload of outputs instead of one with just the output you need, when doing electrical installations, or a variac for quick testing?
[21:02:12] <alex_joni> night all
[21:02:56] <Martzis> jepler: Ok, good to know. Perhaps I must add some noise to the value
[21:03:00] <Jymmm> I just have SUCH a hard time finding xmfrs with desired ratings. Knowing that you could buy this one, then use it as you see fit seems right. Then if you wanted higher voltages later on, no problem, just rewire it as needed, no need to buy another one.
[21:03:04] <Jymmm> nite alex
[21:03:20] <lerneaen_hydra> xmfrs?
[21:03:23] <jepler> the EVIOCGABS ioctl returns a 'value' field, I'm not sure if I tried this to get the "initial" absolute axis position or not
[21:03:39] <Jymmm> lerneaen_hydra: transformers
[21:03:43] <lerneaen_hydra> oh right
[21:04:07] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, I can't say I've had a hard time finding transformers with voltage/current specs I need
[21:04:29] <[Harlock]> Jymmm: what's wrong with a variac?
[21:04:34] <lerneaen_hydra> and a 10A/winding with 1,2,4,8,16,32V outputs is going to be really, really huge
[21:04:39] <cradek> variacs aren't generally isolated are they?
[21:04:46] <Jymmm> I've hit the surplus stores for years, they have zillions of xmfrs, but never any ratings on them so kinda useless.
[21:04:47] <lerneaen_hydra> as all outputs have to be independant
[21:04:51] <Jymmm> cradek: no, theyr're not.
[21:04:54] <[Harlock]> cradek: I don't think so
[21:04:56] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek, aren't they?
[21:05:15] <cradek> that's a big drawback, but an isolation xformer + variac is maybe a good solution
[21:05:17] <Jymmm> lerneaen_hydra: you still need a transformer when using a variac for isolation
[21:05:47] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, I think I'll need to check how a variac really works, I just assumed there was a wiper on the secondary
[21:06:07] <cradek> they're an autotransformer
[21:06:10] <[Harlock]> as far as I know, it's the same principle as an autotransformer
[21:06:12] <jepler> "A Variac is NOT an isolation transformer!" -- http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_tshoot.html#TSHOOT_021
[21:06:20] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm that solution was a lot uglier than I though
[21:06:22] <lerneaen_hydra> thought
[21:06:42] <lerneaen_hydra> so essentially it's just a large inductance?
[21:06:48] <[Harlock]> kinda
[21:06:55] <[Harlock]> with three taps
[21:07:15] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah, of course :)
[21:07:19] <[Harlock]> one at the top, one at the bottom, and another one that moves along the coil
[21:07:32] <lerneaen_hydra> like a wire-wound potentiometer
[21:08:08] <[Harlock]> yeah... I bet you can use the wire-wound pot as a variac at very low power
[21:08:35] <lerneaen_hydra> probably won't work too well though as the core isn't ferromagnetic
[21:08:44] <[Harlock]> right but still :)
[21:09:05] <lerneaen_hydra> sounds like something to remember for the day when you need a really ugly hack to make something work
[21:09:14] <jepler> Martzis: you might try this change and see if it makes the initial -counts be correct: http://pastebin.com/m59b01ed3
[21:09:16] <[Harlock]> ugly tuning
[21:09:29] <lerneaen_hydra> [Harlock], huh?
[21:09:58] <[Harlock]> I was thinking about using the pot to replace a tunable coil
[21:10:09] <lerneaen_hydra> oh right
[21:10:13] <lerneaen_hydra> heh, yeah
[21:10:31] <lerneaen_hydra> probably visible quantisation
[21:10:45] <lerneaen_hydra> probably better to use a movable iron core
[21:10:50] <skunkworks560> * skunkworks560 uses a transformer + autotransformer to test lots of things..
[21:11:26] <cradek> I have used isolation transformer + light bulbs a lot
[21:11:32] <[Harlock]> skunkworks560: you got a lot more time to tinker than me. And space to store those things too!
[21:11:37] <xemet> hi
[21:11:39] <cradek> I don't have a variac
[21:11:49] <xemet> I don't succeed in reading the encoder with the pluto
[21:11:50] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek, light bulbs?
[21:12:01] <[Harlock]> I used light bulbs rack at the university
[21:12:02] <cradek> lerneaen_hydra: AKA current limiters
[21:12:05] <[Harlock]> as load
[21:12:05] <xemet> sometimes it reads, sometimes not
[21:12:09] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, right
[21:12:11] <xemet> is my pluto broken?
[21:12:39] <[Harlock]> I've used light bulbs also to test ground fault circuits on 3000kVA xfos
[21:13:07] <[Harlock]> you can do a lot with three light bulbs :)
[21:14:39] <maddash> " double curvel=(double)*(emcmot_hal_data->pin_declared_hal_float_t); " fed into gcc => " ISO C90 forbids mixed declarations and code "
[21:22:20] <Martzis> jepler: Now it is working perfectly!!!
[21:23:12] <maddash> IT WALKS! IT RUNS! IT SHOOTS!
[21:24:01] <Martzis> Now it works perfectly!
[21:24:13] <Gamma-X> http://www.ctr-surplus.com/lisa/ls6096-1.jpg
[21:24:23] <Gamma-X> i jsut one that.... dont be jealous all.... its ok...
[21:24:30] <lerneaen_hydra> 'night all
[21:25:05] <a-l-p-h-a2> shit he just left
[21:25:07] <a-l-p-h-a2> :(
[21:31:57] <maddash> okay, now for the laser targetting
[21:32:36] <xemet> jepler or cradek, did you ever had problems in reading encoder with the pluto?
[21:43:58] <maddash> arghhhhhhh RT delays ahoy!
[21:46:16] <a-l-p-h-a2> real time delays?
[21:46:23] <a-l-p-h-a2> that's an oxymoron. :)
[21:47:34] <BigJohnT> and the popup window doesn't stop processing
[21:50:22] <Gamma-X> anyone know what a modbus is?
[21:51:19] <BigJohnT> what's on you mind Gamma?
[21:51:24] <BigJohnT> your
[21:51:49] <Gamma-X> differance in wireless serial adapters
[21:51:51] <Gamma-X> i jsut bought one
[21:52:06] <Gamma-X> a troy500 wireless. while a troy505 adds modbus?
[21:52:07] <cradek> xemet: I use pluto-servo for my lathe and it works perfectly
[21:52:53] <BigJohnT> modbus is a communication protocol that is used in plc's and other things
[21:53:32] <cradek> xemet: it counts fast too: 6000 counts/mm at 23mm/sec
[21:53:33] <BigJohnT> Gamma, you get your VFD?
[21:53:38] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT monday...
[21:53:42] <Gamma-X> lol cant wait!
[21:53:52] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT should a modbus be needed for a cnc?
[21:53:57] <BigJohnT> cool bet your drooling all weekend
[21:54:06] <BigJohnT> no
[21:54:19] <Gamma-X> good
[21:54:39] <Gamma-X> a troy500 wireless retails for 300 bucks. i got my troy500 for 45! lol
[21:55:15] <Gamma-X> http://cgi.ebay.com/Troy500-Wireless-10-100-Serial-Server_W0QQitemZ200187243911QQihZ010QQcategoryZ44996QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[21:55:23] <Gamma-X> im also gettin some wierd cable with it
[21:56:55] <BigJohnT> cool
[21:57:27] <Gamma-X> any idea what that cable it? lol
[21:57:33] <BigJohnT> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators
[21:57:39] <BigJohnT> nope
[21:59:04] <BigJohnT> Gamma, do you know anything about running a CNC mill?
[21:59:05] <maddash> whoaaaaaaaaa freakin' bug
[21:59:47] <BigJohnT> how many legs?
[22:02:40] <Gamma-X> on what
[22:02:49] <Gamma-X> on that adpater i have no idea
[22:02:59] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT i knolw the basics why whats up?
[22:03:02] <BigJohnT> speeds feeds stuff like that
[22:03:16] <Gamma-X> yeah i got the graphs
[22:03:25] <BigJohnT> ok, cool
[22:03:34] <Gamma-X> i forget who gave me then
[22:03:38] <Gamma-X> i think crad or swp
[22:03:44] <BigJohnT> wait you got graphs! I have to look in a book
[22:04:01] <BigJohnT> send me some graphs
[22:04:15] <Gamma-X> one sec
[22:05:35] <Gamma-X> damn i dont know where they are lol
[22:05:37] <Gamma-X> on my pc
[22:06:55] <BigJohnT> that's cool if you find them send them... I'd like to look at them
[22:07:08] <BigJohnT> if your on linux you can use grep
[22:07:14] <cradek> timeguy.com
[22:07:29] <cradek> Gamma-X: (the url is on the graphs)
[22:08:07] <maddash> what are forward kinematics?
[22:08:24] <BigJohnT> cool cradek
[22:08:25] <cradek> math that translates from joint to cartesian coordinates
[22:08:46] <cradek> BigJohnT: I have those two graphs on the wall right next to my mill
[22:08:47] <maddash> ok
[22:09:01] <maddash> just wasn't sure which one was forward and which one inverse
[22:09:13] <cradek> everyone gets them confused
[22:09:17] <BigJohnT> cradek: thanks for the link
[22:09:18] <Gamma-X> i got them BigJohnT
[22:09:23] <cradek> sure
[22:09:25] <maddash> so, the usual cartesian CNC has no forward kins
[22:09:27] <Gamma-X> hahaha cradek
[22:09:30] <maddash> correct?
[22:09:43] <maddash> b/c they're trivial
[22:10:11] <xemet> cradek, so I think my pluto is broken
[22:10:24] <xemet> encoder works perfectly on the parallel port
[22:10:42] <xemet> but on the pluto I had a lot of problems
[22:10:44] <cradek> yeah that's what in emc we call trivkins
[22:10:51] <xemet> so I'm getting crazy
[22:10:53] <cradek> the mapping from joints to axes is 1:1
[22:11:17] <maddash> well, firstly, I object to the phrase, "no forward kins", b/c having trivial kins is entirely diff than no kins at all
[22:11:20] <cradek> xemet: yuck
[22:11:28] <maddash> bug #1
[22:11:28] <cradek> maddash: you object a lot
[22:11:43] <maddash> cradek: precision matters
[22:11:58] <maddash> bug 2: estop should clear the joint home flag
[22:12:03] <maddash> but it does not
[22:12:06] <BigJohnT> I printed the charts Gamma
[22:12:19] <maddash> shall I submit the patches I made?
[22:12:23] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT there nice. cradek hooked me up withthem.
[22:12:46] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT time to laminate!
[22:12:51] <maddash> cradek: ^^?
[22:12:59] <maddash> or jeff
[22:13:04] <maddash> or jmk
[22:13:04] <cradek> maddash: I disagree that estop should unhome
[22:13:19] <BigJohnT> Gamma-X what are you laminating
[22:13:20] <maddash> because..?
[22:13:32] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT im sayin u should laminate those pics.
[22:13:46] <maddash> when you estop, the only way to climb out is by going through ESTOP_RESET
[22:14:14] <maddash> called 'reset', implying that everything has been tainted, and needs to be reset.
[22:14:34] <BigJohnT> Yep, got a full page hot laminator kind of like the terminator if you get your finger in there
[22:14:41] <maddash> semantics aside, how do you know exactly whether your machine has tripped or not right after the estop?
[22:14:52] <cradek> tripped?
[22:15:15] <maddash> tripped. skipped. moved that extra fucking bit.
[22:15:46] <maddash> either you're confusing ABORT with ESTOP, or there's something horribly wrong with your picture of ESTOP
[22:16:14] <maddash> because during pre-2.1.5, the homed flags were cleared after estop
[22:16:27] <maddash> which is the only thing that makes intuitive and logical sense
[22:16:49] <cradek> I understand that some people would want to be forced to home after estop
[22:17:07] <maddash> who said anything about 'forced'?
[22:17:13] <maddash> and why would anyone want to be forced?
[22:17:42] <cradek> if it unhomes, what else are you going to do but home again?
[22:17:42] <maddash> has there every been a discussion before this change was made?
[22:17:47] <maddash> ever *
[22:18:04] <cradek> I think you may be mistaken about it being a change
[22:18:13] <maddash> this wasn't the case in pre-2.1.5
[22:18:32] <maddash> I know for a fact, because I hacked in a pin that exported the home flag
[22:20:08] <cradek> I just verified that emc2.1 does not unhome when you go into estop
[22:20:19] <BigJohnT> Gamma-X: you got a material/tool calculator to tell you what spm to run?
[22:21:06] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT i got those from cradek. dont know about that
[22:21:08] <Gamma-X> try a google
[22:21:14] <Gamma-X> or ask cradek
[22:21:35] <Gamma-X> cradek!!!!
[22:21:41] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT neeeeds to talk to you
[22:21:45] <cradek> for milling with HSS: on steel use 100, aluminum 250
[22:21:53] <cradek> milling with carbide: 1.5x those numbers
[22:22:00] <BigJohnT> I'll e-mail you one when I get home... you put in the tool type and diameter and material and it tells you the speeds and feeds you need to run
[22:22:27] <BigJohnT> cradek: SFM?
[22:22:35] <cradek> yes
[22:23:01] <BigJohnT> ok
[22:23:26] <cradek> those are a bit conservative
[22:23:44] <cradek> I like to drill/ream very slow - at 50sfm - otherwise I get oversize holes with my cheap drill bits
[22:23:48] <BigJohnT> I like my tools LOL
[22:25:03] <BigJohnT> cradek: what chip load do you use?
[22:25:33] <cradek> depends on a lot
[22:26:44] <cradek> if you use a largeish endmill, like 3/4, you can cut whatever load you have the HP for
[22:26:53] <cradek> (if you have flood coolant)
[22:27:09] <BigJohnT> I don't use flood :(
[22:27:17] <cradek> what do you use for coolant?
[22:27:22] <BigJohnT> just air
[22:27:30] <cradek> coolant in a squirt bottle works fine too
[22:27:53] <cradek> I haven't tried air - how does it work for heavy cutting?
[22:28:20] <BigJohnT> I don't do real heavy cutting only have 1 1/2 hp on the spindle
[22:28:30] <BigJohnT> BP series 1
[22:28:59] <BigJohnT> I did get a new 3 3/8 face mill today :)
[22:29:07] <cradek> with a 3/4 roughing mill I recently cut .5 deep nearly full width
[22:29:27] <cradek> it made a lot of noise but worked fine
[22:29:39] <cradek> 7ipm I think, not sure
[22:29:48] <BigJohnT> I stay less than .2 most of the time to keep the heat down
[22:30:17] <BigJohnT> If I ever get some guards built I'll install flood coolant
[22:30:29] <BigJohnT> or just buy a HAAS
[22:30:37] <BigJohnT> and be done with it LOL
[22:30:39] <cradek> the coolant doesn't fly around much for me - but the chips sure do
[22:30:51] <cradek> the coolant drains nicely out the hole in the table
[22:31:24] <BigJohnT> I have the head all apart and there were chips where I never thought they would be LOL
[22:31:42] <BigJohnT> I did find the source of the loud bearings finally
[22:31:46] <cradek> yeah that happens somehow
[22:34:08] <BigJohnT> some dummass at the former owners of my mill left the bull gear bearing spacer out... had the bearing inner races in a real bind...
[22:37:01] <BigJohnT> Gamma-X: anyhow if your using HHS tooling and the chips are blue the tool is sure to follow...
[22:38:07] <Gamma-X> cradek what spm is wood?
[22:38:40] <cradek> dang high
[22:38:57] <cradek> I'm not very experienced in cutting wood
[22:39:12] <cradek> but it seems to tear if you cut it slow
[22:39:12] <Gamma-X> what would u think?
[22:39:15] <BigJohnT> Gamma-X: the best advice someone gave was to "Cut Air First without Tools" "Then cut wood"
[22:39:33] <Gamma-X> ? lol
[22:40:38] <BigJohnT> If you got mill marks on your table that is someone's experiance they left behind because they didn't get what they expected they got experiance...
[22:43:28] <gezar> hmm, yummy cutting parameters
[22:43:29] <cradek> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_speed
[22:44:02] <cradek> this page doesn't give a speed for wood
[22:44:31] <gezar> gamma-x the speed for wood, is much faster then your machine can run for the most part unless you going to use massive diameter tools
[22:44:57] <maddash> cradek: you're right about pre-2.1.5; I saw this problem before and hacked in a home clearing routine for estop as well. nonetheless, you are wrong about not clearing home during an estop
[22:45:11] <Gamma-X> gezar so i run at max rpm and max ipm?
[22:45:18] <cradek> a flycutter can easily get in the thousands of sfm
[22:45:36] <maddash> cradek: heck, the way 2.2 is, I can't see when the home flags would be cleared
[22:45:41] <gezar> Gamma-X: no, its dependant on the tool hold on
[22:45:45] <maddash> cradek: for a trivkin machine
[22:46:14] <Gamma-X> gezar tool hold on? what are u reffering to
[22:47:07] <gezar> Gamma-X: sorry I had a phone call, but first you know your mtl is wood, now you need to know that wood takes more then 1000sfm easly
[22:47:18] <gezar> now lets say your using a 1/2" end mill
[22:47:21] <Gamma-X> ok
[22:47:39] <gezar> you cant run your machine fast enough to achieve the proper speed for that dia of a tool so yes, max rpm
[22:47:47] <Gamma-X> ok
[22:47:49] <cradek> so use a bigger cutter :-)
[22:47:56] <gezar> however, you have to calculate the feed for whatever that rpm is
[22:48:05] <Gamma-X> what bit size is good for engraving?
[22:48:51] <Gamma-X> or rather what bit is good for engravin
[22:49:17] <BigJohnT> for letters and stuff gamma
[22:49:22] <gezar> we can get to that in a bit, but in terms of how fast to feed the tool, you want to carefully examine the cutting properties of your material, wood, so if you move too slow you can start a fire for example
[22:49:54] <Gamma-X> lol
[22:49:58] <Gamma-X> never thought of that one lol
[22:50:01] <gezar> if you move too fast, you can splinter the wood, and if you really move too fast you can snap your tool
[22:50:17] <Gamma-X> well my machine will do 4200 rpm
[22:50:50] <gezar> but the calculation is basically how fast you want to move per tooth times number of teeth time rpm
[22:51:24] <gezar> so you can try .008x4x4200=X inches/min
[22:52:15] <Gamma-X> 134
[22:52:25] <Gamma-X> wich my machine cant do... i think it only supports 100 ipm
[22:53:00] <gezar> gamma for any cutter you use on wood that under 1 inch in dia, you have to look at a tool that wood workers use all the time, a router. what 20k rpm? fed by hand
[22:53:57] <Gamma-X> true
[22:55:33] <maddash> what does "TIme" column under 'halcmd show thread' mean?
[22:55:55] <maddash> execution time?
[22:55:55] <SWPadnos> last and max execution time of the entire thread
[22:56:12] <Gamma-X> does radioshack sell a serial cable kit?
[22:56:35] <SWPadnos> though I think it doesn't include some of the overhead - it's roughly from the start of the thread function loop until the end, I believe
[22:56:36] <maddash> so that entry would be a good benchmark of optimization techniques
[22:57:10] <SWPadnos> somewhat, but you'd need to look at it with some logger - the tmax number isn't useful for cycle-counting
[22:57:17] <SWPadnos> and I don't think that's exported to HAL
[23:00:17] <Gamma-X> where can i order serial cable supplys?
[23:01:47] <SWPadnos> here are the sponsored links from a google search for "serial cable": www.cablewholesale.com www.m2cables.com www.cablestogo.com
[23:01:59] <gezar> you get your vfd in
[23:02:26] <BigJohnT> Gamma ratshack has serial cables...
[23:02:36] <Gamma-X> gezar it comes monday ups
[23:02:47] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT yes but one i can modify for my anilam?
[23:02:59] <BigJohnT> what do you need to change
[23:03:46] <gezar> I bet all you need is a null modem adapter
[23:03:48] <Gamma-X> the wire config.
[23:03:55] <Gamma-X> its differant
[23:04:12] <maddash> SWPadnos: selling out, huh?
[23:04:16] <maddash> SWPadnos: :P
[23:04:24] <BigJohnT> do you need a null modem cable? if no they also have ends that you can make it how you wand
[23:04:26] <BigJohnT> want
[23:04:36] <Gamma-X> http://www.aggsoft.com/cnc-dnc/anilam-crusader-ii-m.htm
[23:04:42] <Gamma-X> on the bottom of the page.
[23:05:02] <BigJohnT> I've taken serial cables and chopped off the end and wired it how I needed
[23:06:22] <cradek> I think those are stardard wirings
[23:06:32] <Gamma-X> nope
[23:06:34] <Gamma-X> positive
[23:06:45] <cradek> I mean on that web page
[23:06:56] <Gamma-X> nop
[23:07:13] <Gamma-X> hey whats dtr? and what would a handshake in dnc do for me?
[23:07:22] <gezar> yeah, they are common null modem diagrams
[23:07:32] <gezar> data transmit ready
[23:07:32] <cradek> oh no, let's not argue about serial ports again
[23:08:01] <Gamma-X> gezar wich one there are 2 versions with handshake without
[23:08:01] <SWPadnos> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-232
[23:08:01] <cradek> data *terminal* ready
[23:08:03] <BigJohnT> gamma you got DNC software?
[23:08:12] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT yeah i got free software
[23:08:16] <Gamma-X> dnc precision is free for 1 liscence
[23:08:34] <gezar> oops i guess i missed the first one, my bad, and yeah, not transmit, going back to reading math
[23:08:40] <BigJohnT> cool, you can get the ends from ratshack and whack a cable to suit
[23:08:54] <BigJohnT> off to the house bbl
[23:09:32] <Gamma-X> gezar what about the top left i want that one, is that standard?
[23:09:38] <Gamma-X> i mean top right
[23:11:00] <Gamma-X> what will the handhsake do? will it also make it slower?
[23:11:03] <cradek> looks like it uses xon/xoff so any of those wirings will work fine
[23:11:17] <cradek> just get a null modem cable with the right connectors on it
[23:11:34] <Gamma-X> what about handshaking?
[23:11:50] <cradek> doesn't have any
[23:12:10] <cradek> dtr/dsr is not flow control
[23:12:37] <cradek> that's probably why they say to use 4800 baud, so it can keep up
[23:12:52] <Gamma-X> cradek are u sure its a regular cable????
[23:13:24] <cradek> I don't know anything about your control. but the diagrams on that page are not unusual.
[23:13:37] <cradek> you should look in the docs for your control.
[23:13:51] <Gamma-X> i am right now
[23:14:05] <cradek> does it say anything by the connector?
[23:17:06] <Gamma-X> no
[23:17:17] <cradek> is it db25 at least?
[23:17:33] <Gamma-X> controller yes
[23:17:36] <Gamma-X> pc 9
[23:17:43] <cradek> which gender on the control?
[23:18:12] <maddash> wow, adding a non-fp fxn to an fp thread really fucks up the latter
[23:19:27] <maddash> I mean, really *really*
[23:20:09] <SWPadnos> um - I don't think so
[23:20:22] <SWPadnos> adding an FP function to a non-FP thread sure, but not the other way around
[23:20:45] <SWPadnos> or are you talking about some cycle-counting thing?
[23:20:55] <maddash> sorry, I misspoke
[23:20:57] <Gamma-X> theres pin on the controller i think
[23:21:07] <maddash> s/adding a non-fp fxn.../upgrading emc/
[23:21:12] <cradek> aka male
[23:21:15] <Gamma-X> lol yeah
[23:21:20] <maddash> SWPadnos: 'showthreads'
[23:21:24] <Gamma-X> is it a regular cable or no?
[23:21:24] <cradek> usually male is DTE so you will need null modem wiring
[23:21:45] <Gamma-X> im gunna stop at the store and see
[23:21:48] <Gamma-X> about parts
[23:22:04] <cradek> good luck finding a proper null modem cable
[23:22:27] <cradek> serial ports are dinosaurs and nobody under 25 has ever used one
[23:23:03] <SWPadnos> Radio Shack may have them, but they'll be $19.99, when they should be $3
[23:23:24] <cradek> and one end will be the wrong gender or some other terrible disorder
[23:24:12] <maddash> christ, time=81144 (pre-2.1.5) vs. time=108400 (2.2.2)
[23:24:25] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek/palmshot
[23:24:34] <cradek> ^ my previous rant about radio shack
[23:25:21] <maddash> for servo-thread, that is
[23:25:30] <SWPadnos> yep - DB25F->DB9M adapter : DB9F to DB9M modem cable : DB9F : DB9F null modem/gender changer is a likely configuration
[23:25:46] <Gamma-X> cool
[23:25:49] <Gamma-X> brb sushi time
[23:25:58] <SWPadnos> servo-thread has the TP, which now deals with 9 axes - you'd expect it to take a few more cycles
[23:26:05] <SWPadnos> at least I would
[23:26:16] <maddash> really? didn't know that
[23:26:22] <SWPadnos> look at the changelog
[23:26:23] <maddash> when did this happen?
[23:26:27] <SWPadnos> then complain if you must
[23:27:34] <maddash> er, where's the changelog?
[23:27:54] <cradek> first link on the wiki or so
[23:27:55] <SWPadnos> http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=558818&group_id=6744
[23:28:04] <cradek> or, in cvs
[23:28:08] <SWPadnos> also top left of linuxcnc.org, in the news section
[23:28:18] <maddash> hah, found it
[23:28:27] <SWPadnos> it's easy once you start looking
[23:28:38] <maddash> psht I only searched the wiki and cvs
[23:28:41] <SWPadnos> heh
[23:29:05] <SWPadnos> actually, the one I linked doesn't seem to mention 9 axis support
[23:29:07] <maddash> which is reasonable, b/c I'm preoccupied with those two almost all the time
[23:29:07] <cradek> it is the first link on the first page on the wiki
[23:29:08] <SWPadnos> strange
[23:29:17] <maddash> cradek: not the changelog
[23:29:33] <maddash> 'list of bugs'
[23:30:10] <maddash> SWPadnos: so what you told me before is untrue?
[23:30:16] <SWPadnos> no, it'
[23:30:35] <SWPadnos> no, it's in the changes document linked from the front page of the wiki
[23:30:36] <cradek> 05 November 2007 EMC 2.2.0 released: .... U,V,W linear axes with fully coordinated motion
[23:32:20] <SWPadnos> maddash, are you running sim or RT?
[23:32:35] <maddash> SWPadnos: rt
[23:32:40] <SWPadnos> ok
[23:33:10] <maddash> wow, u,v,w. does that mean tilted arcs exist now?
[23:33:32] <cradek> no
[23:34:06] <maddash> well then, the only thing left to do is to get rid of it, then.
[23:35:41] <maddash> seriously, it's not cool to add stuff that slows down servo-thread by 20us w/o adding a compiler line to disable it
[23:39:52] <SWPadnos> how fast are you trying to run the servo thread? also, what is the CPU speed of the PC you're testing with?
[23:43:20] <BigJohnT> Brandon I sent you MS Consultant via email
[23:44:19] <maddash> brb, home time
[23:44:21] <BigJohnT> It's a free software for speeds and feeds
[23:44:33] <maddash> emcAxisHome(maddash)