#emc | Logs for 2007-12-30

[00:01:45] <BigJohnT> cool what did you get
[00:04:30] <robin_sz> nice :)
[00:06:28] <a-l-p-h-a> anyone made anything cool lately?
[00:06:45] <Unit41> aluminum linier angle alides are not preferabal
[00:06:49] <a-l-p-h-a> say, within the last year?
[00:07:08] <robin_sz> yeah, lots :)
[00:07:27] <a-l-p-h-a> robin_sz, photos?
[00:07:32] <a-l-p-h-a> robin_sz, or just big fish stories?
[00:07:33] <lerneaen_hydra> random quick q., which user is apache run as by default on most systems?
[00:07:34] <robin_sz> or was that "anyone made anything kewl on EMC?"
[00:07:39] <Unit41> I need a tig bad
[00:07:43] <a-l-p-h-a> lerneaen_hydra, apache
[00:07:56] <a-l-p-h-a> robin_sz, CNC more related.
[00:08:19] <robin_sz> lots of kewl laser cut bits ;)
[00:08:32] <a-l-p-h-a> robin_sz, what's the knuff width?
[00:08:38] <robin_sz> knuff?
[00:08:42] <robin_sz> kerf?
[00:08:45] <a-l-p-h-a> kerf
[00:08:55] <a-l-p-h-a> whatever, the blown away diameter.
[00:08:57] <robin_sz> depends on the material and thickness
[00:09:00] <a-l-p-h-a> ooh
[00:09:11] <a-l-p-h-a> do sheet metal fab with it? or more like slabs?
[00:09:12] <robin_sz> but, 0.3mm is typical on thinnish stuff
[00:09:23] <a-l-p-h-a> ooh. dang... 0.3mm... tiny.
[00:09:25] <robin_sz> typically 1 to 5mm
[00:09:33] <robin_sz> thick
[00:09:40] <robin_sz> can go to 15mm now
[00:09:44] <a-l-p-h-a> what's the operating costs for that? co2 laser?
[00:09:51] <robin_sz> I have two
[00:09:53] <robin_sz> one YAG
[00:09:55] <robin_sz> one CO2
[00:10:03] <Unit41> fuck lasers
[00:10:15] <a-l-p-h-a> Unit41, in Russia Lasers fuck you.
[00:10:24] <Unit41> fuck that
[00:10:29] <Unit41> I fuck laser
[00:10:39] <a-l-p-h-a> heh
[00:10:41] <Unit41> with laser fucking visions
[00:10:49] <lerneaen_hydra> ugh, ubuntu (debian?) defaults to www-data as the user
[00:10:55] <lerneaen_hydra> that explains some stuff
[00:11:00] <robin_sz> the YAG costs, all in, including elecric, consumables %ge, cuttign gas, about, £8 to £10 an hour
[00:11:13] <a-l-p-h-a> that's not bad at all.
[00:11:16] <a-l-p-h-a> what do you charge clients?
[00:11:20] <a-l-p-h-a> typically...
[00:11:25] <robin_sz> um, about £100 an hour
[00:11:31] <a-l-p-h-a> nice.
[00:11:48] <robin_sz> but theres significant overhead still
[00:11:49] <a-l-p-h-a> robin_sz, is it utilized all the time?
[00:11:52] <robin_sz> that was the pure laser cost
[00:12:03] <Unit41> abrasive is better
[00:12:04] <robin_sz> not floorspace, operator, programmer
[00:12:05] <a-l-p-h-a> operator costs, storage/warehouse
[00:12:08] <Unit41> phewjls
[00:12:15] <a-l-p-h-a> waterjet is cool.
[00:12:21] <robin_sz> Unit41: abrasive is WAY too slow for sheetmetal
[00:12:26] <robin_sz> kewl, but slow
[00:12:27] <a-l-p-h-a> laser's have their uses. like etching...
[00:12:34] <Unit41> even micro torch
[00:12:35] <a-l-p-h-a> waterjet isn't well suited for that.
[00:12:49] <robin_sz> waterjet is good on aluminium
[00:12:53] <robin_sz> and thick stainless
[00:13:02] <robin_sz> and non metals
[00:13:02] <a-l-p-h-a> abrasive waterjets...
[00:13:04] <Unit41> vagina
[00:13:09] <Unit41> ..
[00:13:40] <robin_sz> on thin sheet (up to 10mm) laser is WAY faster
[00:13:52] <Unit41> but how thick is 10 mm really ?
[00:13:53] <robin_sz> like 10 to 100 times as fast
[00:14:06] <robin_sz> 10mm, is roughly, about 10mm thick
[00:14:06] <Unit41> * Unit41 grabs his micrometer
[00:14:12] <a-l-p-h-a> 10 is 10/25.4 of an inch
[00:14:20] <robin_sz> of a wat?
[00:14:26] <a-l-p-h-a> 10mm
[00:14:44] <Unit41> .410 inch
[00:14:51] <robin_sz> whatever that is
[00:14:58] <a-l-p-h-a> hmm... new 60 watt yag is 20K.
[00:15:04] <robin_sz> 60?
[00:15:06] <a-l-p-h-a> 300W yag is 35.5
[00:15:07] <a-l-p-h-a> K
[00:15:13] <lerman> 10 millimeters = 4.97096954 × 10^-5 furlongs
[00:15:14] <robin_sz> hmm
[00:15:19] <a-l-p-h-a> 'ooh that's a spot welder, the 60watt
[00:15:25] <a-l-p-h-a> http://business.search.ebay.com/laser_Industrial-Supply-MRO_W0QQcatrefZC12QQfromZR10QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQmaxrecordsreturnedZ300QQsabfmtsZ1QQsacatZ1266QQsaobfmtsZinsifQQsaprchiZQQsaprcloZ
[00:15:26] <robin_sz> nine is 800watt yag
[00:15:38] <robin_sz> and 2Kw CO2
[00:15:57] <Unit41> dam thats thick
[00:16:36] <Unit41> 50 amp plasma cuts 1inch no prob
[00:16:36] <a-l-p-h-a> can either do laser etching?
[00:16:44] <robin_sz> yep
[00:16:58] <robin_sz> 50 amp plasma does NOT cut 1 inch,
[00:17:19] <robin_sz> 100amps cuts an inch and piereces 0.5inch
[00:17:28] <Unit41> how many watt laser do I need to cut 1 mm ss ?
[00:17:28] <robin_sz> stnadard industry rule of thumb
[00:17:34] <robin_sz> 1mm ss?
[00:17:38] <Unit41> stainless
[00:17:48] <robin_sz> yag or co2?
[00:18:00] <Unit41> co2 ?
[00:18:05] <Unit41> whats yag
[00:18:17] <robin_sz> co2, id say, 500W will do it
[00:18:29] <a-l-p-h-a> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yag_Laser
[00:18:32] <Unit41> f that 100 watt is 2grand
[00:18:33] <robin_sz> I had a 350w co2 that woudlnt quite do it
[00:18:45] <robin_sz> 100w will not do it
[00:19:06] <Unit41> ok what about .5
[00:19:20] <Unit41> 1.26 mm
[00:19:36] <Unit41> oops
[00:19:38] <Unit41> .7
[00:19:51] <fenn> Unit41: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91811
[00:20:01] <Unit41> .5
[00:20:16] <robin_sz> .5, I would say the same to be honest
[00:20:27] <robin_sz> 350W might just do it
[00:20:33] <robin_sz> but only just
[00:20:46] <robin_sz> much below than and you are below the damage threshold of the material
[00:20:53] <Unit41> so I should get a yag ?
[00:21:00] <robin_sz> nope,
[00:21:03] <robin_sz> costs more per watt
[00:21:16] <robin_sz> co2 is the cheapest per watt
[00:21:43] <robin_sz> youd still need 500W of yag to do the job, maybe a little less
[00:21:53] <robin_sz> and YAG is rare in laser cutting
[00:22:07] <robin_sz> its high end, aerospace stuff
[00:22:33] <robin_sz> theres only 3 flat-bed laser YAG cutters inthe UK
[00:22:42] <robin_sz> and probably 200+ co2s
[00:23:40] <a-l-p-h-a> robin_sz, and you own 2 flat-bed yag lasers?
[00:23:44] <a-l-p-h-a> you're an MONOPOLY!
[00:23:47] <robin_sz> 1 yag, 1 co2
[00:23:48] <a-l-p-h-a> a
[00:24:07] <a-l-p-h-a> oh, go buy out the other two... become a monopoly, and put little red hotels over the properties
[00:24:16] <Unit41> fenn should I buy it ?
[00:24:22] <fenn> * fenn shrugs
[00:24:26] <Unit41> http://cgi.ebay.ca/TIG-Welder-130-amp-90-amp-Arc-stick-NR-No-Reserve_W0QQitemZ270199387346QQihZ017QQcategoryZ113743QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[00:24:31] <Unit41> found it for 130
[00:24:34] <a-l-p-h-a> Unit41, get one that has more amps
[00:25:12] <Unit41> will it weld small stuff ?
[00:25:29] <fenn> of course
[00:25:42] <Unit41> some people weld without rod ?
[00:25:42] <fenn> either that or it will explode when you plug it in
[00:26:46] <fenn> that is really cheap though
[00:26:53] <fenn> i mean inexpensive
[00:27:20] <robin_sz> it is
[00:27:29] <robin_sz> switch mode technolgy has come a long way
[00:27:30] <Unit41> there its mine now
[00:27:32] <Unit41> I just bought it
[00:27:47] <robin_sz> nice
[00:28:00] <Unit41> I have access to shit piles of aluminum too
[00:28:04] <robin_sz> ahh
[00:28:09] <robin_sz> you want to weld ally?
[00:28:13] <robin_sz> not with that you wont
[00:28:13] <fenn> that's DC, not good for aluminum
[00:28:14] <Unit41> ya
[00:28:23] <Unit41> fuck
[00:28:25] <robin_sz> need an AC tig for that
[00:28:29] <fenn> heh sorry
[00:28:39] <robin_sz> still, it is cheap :)
[00:28:45] <robin_sz> will be good for stainless
[00:28:48] <Unit41> so it'll do still ?
[00:28:56] <robin_sz> for stainles yes
[00:29:00] <robin_sz> and mild steel
[00:29:19] <robin_sz> its lift start .. which is "ok"
[00:29:22] <fenn> i dont really see the point of welding aluminum though
[00:29:32] <robin_sz> hf start is better
[00:29:37] <robin_sz> but costs more $$$
[00:29:51] <robin_sz> we weld a fair bit of ally
[00:29:57] <robin_sz> about 50% tig, 50% mig
[00:30:05] <robin_sz> even split really
[00:30:22] <robin_sz> modern ally mig is SO good
[00:30:39] <robin_sz> looks like a good tig weld, unless you knw the tell-tale signs
[00:32:17] <robin_sz> if you want to tig ally, get a big old Miller Syncrowave, and a watercooled torch
[00:32:33] <robin_sz> and a bucket of solvent
[00:32:50] <robin_sz> oh, fuck I just remebered .. funniest story of 2007
[00:33:02] <robin_sz> * robin_sz waits to see if anyone is awake
[00:33:28] <lerman> go on...
[00:33:32] <robin_sz> so,
[00:33:51] <robin_sz> our powdercoating subcon guy .. employs morons for trivial wages ...
[00:34:13] <robin_sz> one of his morons, says to another moron "you know you can dip your hand in thinners and light it, it doesnt hurt?"
[00:34:32] <robin_sz> moron2 doesnt believe him ... so he shows him
[00:34:59] <robin_sz> as the pain begins .. he tries to put his hands out ... by shaking them
[00:35:22] <robin_sz> flicks a burning trail of thinners down his leg ... across the floor
[00:35:41] <robin_sz> and into the thinners tub, 25l, with a top, that is off
[00:35:59] <robin_sz> so, does he put a rag on it?
[00:36:06] <robin_sz> dies he put the top back on?
[00:36:11] <robin_sz> nooo .. he ...
[00:36:13] <robin_sz> kicks it
[00:36:46] <robin_sz> it rolls over, acorss the shop, spilling burning thinners, stop sat the back wall, and goes up in a fireball
[00:37:12] <robin_sz> still, he has the burning trousers from where he flicked his hands to try and put them out ...
[00:37:29] <robin_sz> like a moron, he jumps into the acid bath they use to degrease parts in ...
[00:38:06] <robin_sz> when he got out of hospital, they sacked him too :)
[00:38:11] <robin_sz> <ends>
[00:38:13] <Unit41> fenn please tell me a dc tig will still make 2 peices of alu stick together
[00:38:31] <Unit41> i dont care about looks
[00:38:34] <robin_sz> no, no it wont
[00:38:48] <robin_sz> not even a little bit
[00:38:52] <robin_sz> and looking awful
[00:39:05] <Unit41> thanks
[00:39:19] <robin_sz> zero chance im afraid
[00:39:42] <robin_sz> you need AC, to break the oxide skin on the ally
[00:40:02] <robin_sz> but it will do mild and stailess nicely a DC, they are good at that
[00:41:05] <a-l-p-h-a> robin_sz, buahahahahahhahahahahahahahahaha
[00:41:13] <robin_sz> :))
[00:41:29] <a-l-p-h-a> robin_sz, hahahahha omg. did moron 1 get canned too?
[00:41:47] <robin_sz> yeah, just the 1 moron got canned
[00:41:55] <robin_sz> the fire-juggler
[00:41:56] <a-l-p-h-a> moron 2 is still employed?
[00:42:00] <robin_sz> yeah
[00:42:08] <robin_sz> well, he was only watching the first moron
[00:42:16] <robin_sz> moron 1 did all the action
[00:42:18] <a-l-p-h-a> ooh. so moron 1 showed off his own 'factoid'
[00:42:23] <a-l-p-h-a> kk
[00:42:24] <robin_sz> indeed
[00:42:34] <a-l-p-h-a> I was confused, I thought moron 2 did to prove moron 1 wrong.
[00:42:35] <a-l-p-h-a> hahahahah
[00:42:41] <robin_sz> nah
[00:42:45] <a-l-p-h-a> that's sooo funny
[00:42:48] <robin_sz> it is
[00:42:54] <robin_sz> kept me chuckling for weeks
[00:43:05] <a-l-p-h-a> that is halarious.
[00:43:19] <robin_sz> I even phone him up from time to time and say "so, hows your fire-juggles today"
[00:43:35] <a-l-p-h-a> acid bath too... jeese.
[00:43:50] <a-l-p-h-a> but does the place have safety equipment, that the fools should have access to.
[00:43:54] <robin_sz> the bit I dont get, is wtf he decide the best way to put out the pail of thinners was to kick it
[00:44:09] <robin_sz> well, yes, it has basic stuff
[00:44:24] <robin_sz> but morons are morons, no safety stuff will save a true moron
[00:45:50] <a-l-p-h-a> stupid people are fun... they're sometimes really amusing. other times, it's frustrating.
[00:46:30] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[00:46:38] <robin_sz> sadly, we are his biggest customer
[00:46:47] <robin_sz> sadly, because we will bring it all in-house this year
[00:47:04] <robin_sz> too many stuff ups
[00:47:10] <Unit41> are those lyrics from a new spice girl single
[00:47:19] <a-l-p-h-a> robin_sz, you're the next conglomorate (sp?)
[00:47:24] <robin_sz> heh
[00:47:26] <robin_sz> boom
[00:47:27] <robin_sz> or bust
[00:47:29] <robin_sz> :)
[00:51:46] <lerneaen_hydra> I'm feeling stupid again, after a fresh lamp install, why aren't images visible outside the nat?
[00:52:06] <lerneaen_hydra> I think I've forgotten some hostname somewhere...
[00:52:16] <robin_sz> hmmm
[00:52:37] <robin_sz> forwarded the port 80 on the NAT to port 80 on yor swerever?
[00:52:46] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah the router is unchanged
[00:52:56] <robin_sz> when you say "images"
[00:53:00] <lerneaen_hydra> I just reinstalled the server (migrated from one disk to a raid and some other hardware changes)
[00:53:07] <lerneaen_hydra> www.lerneaenhydra.net
[00:53:10] <Unit41> nate config through the server conf up the firewall
[00:53:13] <robin_sz> prolly a alias issue
[00:53:28] <robin_sz> the server doesnt use different posrts for images and text
[00:53:39] <a-l-p-h-a> ooooooooh
[00:53:43] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah I'm feeling rather stupid atm
[00:53:51] <a-l-p-h-a> apache doesn't like NFS, samba stuff.
[00:54:26] <robin_sz> its fine with NFS
[00:54:36] <robin_sz> its just part fo the filesystem
[00:54:37] <Unit41> apache loves the cock
[00:54:37] <a-l-p-h-a> something to do with precaching, but I tried a few months back, to get apache to work over a SAMBA shit, and it wouldn't work
[00:54:47] <robin_sz> hmm
[00:54:53] <robin_sz> samba not tried
[00:54:58] <robin_sz> with smbmount?
[00:55:04] <BigJohnT> robin_sz: what is more important with plasma cutting the arc voltage or the physical distance from the tip to the work?
[00:55:08] <a-l-p-h-a> yup
[00:55:38] <robin_sz> BigJohnT: arc voltage is better, phyisical distance wis almost as good,
[00:55:59] <BigJohnT> robin_sz: ok thanks
[00:56:07] <Unit41> alton bradley
[00:56:23] <robin_sz> allen bradley
[00:56:31] <Unit41> oh ya
[00:56:38] <BigJohnT> that's alton's brother
[00:56:47] <robin_sz> indeed
[00:56:51] <robin_sz> younger brother
[00:56:54] <BigJohnT> yep
[00:57:59] <Unit41> I see lots of westinghouse stuff too in the patch
[00:58:06] <Unit41> at old plants
[00:58:20] <Unit41> transformers
[00:58:22] <robin_sz> hmm
[00:58:42] <robin_sz> * robin_sz remembers the "westinghouse Producer2 CNC Control"
[00:58:44] <lerneaen_hydra> robin_sz, no idea as to the lack of graphics?
[00:58:51] <robin_sz> not really,
[00:59:02] <a-l-p-h-a> lerman, error logs.
[00:59:03] <lerneaen_hydra> it works inside that nat fwiw
[00:59:09] <lerneaen_hydra> a-l-p-h-a, smart
[00:59:09] <a-l-p-h-a> what do they say?
[00:59:14] <lerneaen_hydra> why do I never think of that
[00:59:15] <robin_sz> lerneaen_hydra: tail -f /var/log/apache/errors.log
[00:59:26] <robin_sz> works inside but not out
[00:59:31] <robin_sz> ahh, virtual hosts then
[00:59:43] <robin_sz> almost cetanily a vhosts problem
[00:59:45] <a-l-p-h-a> pastebin.ca your conf files.
[01:00:00] <robin_sz> from conf.d
[01:00:05] <fenn> your images are pointing to
[01:00:17] <lerneaen_hydra> fenn, ah.
[01:00:30] <fenn> and all the links
[01:00:40] <fenn> joomla sucks, btw
[01:01:09] <robin_sz> * robin_sz loves Joomla
[01:01:11] <a-l-p-h-a> yeah, images are point to an internal network.
[01:01:13] <lerneaen_hydra> all my apache confs are defaults
[01:01:13] <a-l-p-h-a> heh.
[01:01:15] <a-l-p-h-a> you can't do that.
[01:01:20] <a-l-p-h-a> you'll have to alias them in the conf file.
[01:01:22] <lerneaen_hydra> no, that's not good
[01:01:29] <lerneaen_hydra> in the sites-enabled?
[01:01:33] <robin_sz> ah yes, redirects :)
[01:01:47] <robin_sz> outside sites cant see
[01:01:55] <lerneaen_hydra> no, of course not
[01:01:55] <robin_sz> unless of course they have one of their own
[01:02:05] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah, which could lead to t3h nasty
[01:02:16] <lerneaen_hydra> though the chance of that is exceedingly small
[01:02:27] <fenn> lerneaen_hydra: here's a suggestion, look at a plain html page with a link to lerneaenhydra.net/someimage.jpg
[01:02:43] <Unit41> stop calling me that
[01:02:58] <lerneaen_hydra> fenn, I see what the problem is, I just can't figure out where the config file is to change the default address
[01:03:05] <robin_sz> or, just enter http://lerneaenhydra.net/someimage.jpg in a browser and see what happens
[01:03:20] <Unit41> I fought in 2 world wars just so you can build the cnc
[01:03:27] <Unit41> haha j/k
[01:04:17] <robin_sz> all those in your pages are going to have to go
[01:04:52] <Unit41> I need 1/2 inch bearings
[01:05:05] <lerneaen_hydra> http://pastebin.ca/837989 <-- the default /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/default-001 file
[01:05:40] <lerneaen_hydra> I seem to recall something about replacing the * after the vhost name with something else
[01:05:52] <robin_sz> that wont help
[01:06:01] <robin_sz> in your jommla pages,
[01:06:23] <robin_sz> you cant have 192.168.x.x as part of the srcs
[01:06:37] <fenn> change * to www.lerneaenhydra.net
[01:06:50] <robin_sz> and chnage joomla too
[01:07:11] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, it's not that I've hardcoded links as, I may be a tard, but I'm not that much of a tard. I've backed up this config, so I'm very sure it's an apache setting
[01:07:29] <robin_sz> blink
[01:07:36] <fenn> apache doesnt know the domain name you see
[01:07:42] <robin_sz> quite
[01:07:47] <Unit41> omg its raining bytes
[01:07:50] <lerneaen_hydra> fenn, yeah that's what I was looking for
[01:08:29] <Unit41> what did the wise man say to the deaf lady ?
[01:09:13] <Unit41> you cannot hear me.
[01:09:25] <Unit41> haha
[01:09:56] <lerneaen_hydra> fenn, uhoh, that killed it completely
[01:10:45] <fenn> <VirtualHost *> ServerName www.blahdyblah
[01:10:54] <Unit41> like squish its fucking head in killed ?
[01:11:01] <lerneaen_hydra> oh servername
[01:11:28] <fenn> sry, i'm bumbling through this too
[01:11:56] <lerneaen_hydra> you mean you're doing a similar thing yourself or you can't quite remember?
[01:12:29] <fenn> in the past, i didnt quite know what i was doing, but it worked
[01:12:34] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, funnily enough that didn't work
[01:13:13] <lerneaen_hydra> should it be in the '/etc/apache2/sites-enabled/000-default' file?
[01:13:38] <fenn> mine was in apache2.conf but i dont think it matters
[01:13:47] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm...
[01:15:09] <lerneaen_hydra> does there need to be anything in the hosts file?
[01:15:29] <lerneaen_hydra> some connection between the domain and localhost?
[01:17:59] <fenn> no this is purely a joomla problem
[01:18:35] <lerneaen_hydra> oh?
[01:21:40] <lerneaen_hydra> what makes you say that?
[01:23:31] <lerneaen_hydra> fenn, yep, you're right
[01:23:47] <lerneaen_hydra> I'll try a reboot
[01:25:40] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm no luck
[01:26:21] <Gamma-X> besides enco whats a good site that might have sales on tools
[01:26:35] <Gamma-X> fenn i bought the sj2000
[01:27:32] <lerneaen_hydra> fenn, well now isn't that great, my backup program reverted one file
[01:27:39] <lerneaen_hydra> or something reverted it
[01:27:47] <lerneaen_hydra> does it work for you now?
[01:31:48] <fenn> yes
[01:32:03] <lerneaen_hydra> ok, good. thanks :)
[01:33:29] <Gamma-X> fenn anything else besides enco?
[01:33:40] <fenn> hmm.. enco's pretty good
[01:33:50] <fenn> cdcotools.com
[01:35:19] <fenn> weird. i read 'enco' as 'harbor freight' the first time
[01:42:01] <Gamma-X> thanks
[01:42:04] <Gamma-X> harbor friehgt? lol
[01:44:39] <Gamma-X> fenn what would u recomend i buy for a first time cnc setup, vise, mill stop, guages etc. let me know
[01:45:14] <fenn> uh, i really dont know
[01:45:26] <fenn> i dont even have a milling machine
[01:58:22] <Unit41> has anyone ever wonderd why the public never stopped Houdini ?
[01:58:35] <Unit41> he was doing some really death defying shit
[01:59:10] <Unit41> he was in poverty that was the only way he could get money
[02:33:46] <Ziegler> geez... solidworks is kicking me arse tongiht
[02:39:04] <Gamma-X> whats a live center for?
[02:41:22] <Unit41> kill the blood beasts
[02:42:57] <Gamma-X> Unit41 lol huh?
[02:43:10] <Gamma-X> oh and what would I need a swivel vise for?
[02:43:19] <fenn> you dont
[02:43:30] <Unit41> lets think about this
[02:44:03] <Gamma-X> fenn is bigger mean better with vises?
[02:44:18] <fenn> yeah i guess
[02:44:26] <fenn> you gotta pick it up though
[02:44:54] <Gamma-X> im taking a lot of sondieration into these enco vises but they look flimsey
[02:45:07] <fenn> just dont get a drill press vise
[02:45:43] <Gamma-X> fenn yeah yeah i know
[02:45:48] <Unit41> tap and thread
[02:46:04] <Unit41> cut and file
[02:46:13] <Unit41> screw and unscrew
[02:46:24] <Unit41> technologic
[02:46:35] <Gamma-X> Unit41 but for the extra money is it worth it?
[02:46:58] <Unit41> for a cnc yes
[02:47:01] <fenn> the swivel is an extra source of error and slop
[02:47:18] <Unit41> when I buy a vise I want it to open and close itself
[02:47:19] <Gamma-X> fenn good point
[02:47:31] <Gamma-X> lol
[02:47:47] <Gamma-X> u guys recomend a good size?
[02:48:25] <Unit41> asbig as my cock
[02:48:47] <Unit41> so 5 inch
[02:48:59] <Gamma-X> Unit41 hahaha no bigger?
[02:49:13] <Unit41> are you putting it in a metal workshop ?
[02:49:24] <Unit41> is it going on your tailgate ?
[02:50:22] <Gamma-X> onto my cnc machine
[02:50:31] <Unit41> hmmm sounds heavy
[02:50:40] <Unit41> better get out the thinking cap
[02:50:40] <gezr> howdy yall
[02:51:11] <Unit41> yippie too ya aint herd from ye in a gettin
[02:51:27] <Gamma-X> Unit41 heavy isnt a problem just thinkin about size whyse for parts and crap
[02:51:49] <Gamma-X> fenn what do u think would be the differance in the kurt and enco vises?
[02:51:50] <Unit41> think lightweight and long
[02:52:06] <fenn> Gamma-X: i think you should come up with a project first before buying stuff you dont need
[02:52:07] <gezr> gamma-x kurt > enco
[02:52:34] <gezr> but you can always buy expensive stuff later on, so go good and inexpesive to learn with
[02:52:37] <fenn> the difference is quality control
[02:52:57] <Unit41> I bought 3 bags of cement and have no idea what to build either
[02:53:09] <Unit41> 3 bags is alot of cement
[02:53:13] <fenn> not really
[02:53:26] <Unit41> these were like 50 lb bags
[02:53:29] <fenn> oooo
[02:54:02] <Unit41> 50 dollars
[02:54:10] <Gamma-X> lol
[02:54:18] <gezr> try and make a dome type structure with an inflatable bag to do the structure raising, say a small dog house
[02:54:28] <Gamma-X> fenn can u recomend a vise? not so pricey though but good quality?
[02:54:34] <fenn> gezr: a monolithic dome dog house?
[02:54:39] <Gamma-X> lol
[02:54:39] <gezr> yeah
[02:55:01] <fenn> you could flip it and say it's an ostrich bath
[02:56:08] <gezr> I just it would be cool to try and do, you have 3 bags of cement, find the area necessary to cover oh 1" of cross section on 3' dia of dome
[02:56:11] <Gamma-X> make a small basketball court
[02:56:14] <Gamma-X> patio
[02:56:26] <Unit41> its stark winter out
[02:56:30] <Gamma-X> lol
[02:56:41] <Gamma-X> make a statue
[02:57:28] <Unit41> maybe a horse
[02:57:37] <Unit41> cast of bronze
[02:57:51] <Unit41> would that please you ?
[02:58:30] <Gamma-X> lol
[02:58:37] <Gamma-X> big hore penis!
[02:58:41] <Gamma-X> horse hahahah*
[02:59:05] <Unit41> the bigger the penis the smaller the antlers though
[02:59:28] <Unit41> oh they dont ?
[03:00:50] <Gamma-X> ....
[03:02:12] <Ziegler> opps...
[03:02:13] <Ziegler> gotta go
[03:02:17] <Ziegler> family just got in town
[03:03:36] <gezr> what would cause my stepper motors to gitter when I put power to them and the controler chips?
[03:03:52] <gezr> could bad power do that?
[03:06:07] <fenn> Gamma-X: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=952231&PMAKA=425-7060
[03:06:08] <gezr> buah, I think I blew another chip out
[03:06:34] <fenn> yeah its backordered but that's a good deal
[03:10:07] <ds2> gezr, saw what you said last night, what were you going to ask?
[03:10:56] <gezr> you get that castle nut off?
[03:11:20] <gezr> well, i was going to ask how tight the gib on X was
[03:11:24] <ds2> no, I am thinking I should do more thinking before taking it further
[03:11:46] <ds2> not very, I can turn the pull by hand and move it
[03:12:09] <ds2> I can even grab the tool post and shift the entire thing (screw included) back and forth
[03:12:41] <ds2> what worries me is the comment about the bearing might be bad; if so, I should figure out how/what kind of bearing before going forward
[03:13:16] <Unit41> what does it all mean basil
[03:19:43] <gezr> sweet, I blew out a 5 buck ucn8054b controler chip but I fixed my jitter issues :)
[03:20:37] <Gamma-X> fenn its abck ordered... lol
[03:20:41] <gezr> ds2 so that block with the bearings in it, the one you were tyring to tighten up, does it have a ton of play in it?
[03:21:12] <Gamma-X> fenn i jsut saw u said its back ordred but is there anything else u think is good?
[03:21:38] <ds2> gezr: only in the axle direction
[03:22:09] <gezr> try tightening up that nut then
[03:22:14] <gezr> hell it may just be lose
[03:22:20] <ds2> gezr: the lathe should have minimal wear, it came out of a school but has been siting around for a while
[03:22:53] <ds2> the thing that I don't fully get is, how did it become loose? there is a start washer thing with one point bent into the castle so it should not be able to turn
[03:23:10] <gezr> right, but it could have been loose all along
[03:23:21] <fenn> Gamma-X: this looks okay-ish http://cdcotools.com/item.php?itemid=150
[03:23:22] <gezr> or the bearings are hosed
[03:23:48] <gezr> ds2: did you understand what I was talking about to make the wrenches?
[03:23:57] <ds2> well, it is discontinued but the mfg is still around so I'll post a thing to their obsolete product support forum
[03:24:01] <ds2> gezr: kind of
[03:24:24] <ds2> but I suspect it is easier for me to goto the mill and just mill a face spanner out of an aluminum round
[03:24:51] <ds2> then instead of vise grips+shims, I'll just use the chuck from the dead HF drill
[03:25:20] <gezr> ds2 what I tried telling you about last night, required no chuck, no nothing, just your arm power
[03:25:35] <fenn> except the screw would turn
[03:25:44] <gezr> the ball screw?
[03:25:47] <fenn> yeah
[03:25:53] <ds2> gezr: I think there is a critical dimension to match the castle nut
[03:25:58] <gezr> its supposed to turn, none of that is connected to it
[03:26:14] <gezr> ds2 yeah, about.001 preload
[03:26:18] <fenn> ds2: does the castle nut spin when the ballscrew spins?
[03:26:51] <ds2> fenn, let me go try
[03:27:01] <gezr> the castle is pulling against the inner housing thats part of that screws end
[03:27:32] <gezr> which tells me that there is another castle nut behind that bearing houseing where the plate currently is
[03:27:44] <ds2> fenn: yes, it turns with the ball screw
[03:27:46] <gezr> so you should unscrew the bearing block from the base
[03:27:59] <gezr> ds2 that big black section, its screwed into that green plate right?
[03:28:00] <ds2> oh? so there should be no press fit parts?
[03:28:19] <ds2> gezr: yep, that green plate is bolted to the end of the X ways and also is where the stepper mounts
[03:28:21] <gezr> hell no, no press, maybe .0005 on the bearings in that housing, but thats it
[03:28:47] <ds2> cool, less worried about disassembly already
[03:28:57] <gezr> ds2 can you unscrew that black bearing houseing from the green plate, then look inside there, you should see another screw like thing, resting on the bearings outer races
[03:29:06] <ds2> this is my first major mechanical disassembly so, I am taking it slow
[03:29:22] <gezr> its either on the side with the castle nut, or its on the oppsite side
[03:29:29] <ds2> gezr: that housing is bolted to the plate w/3 SHCS
[03:29:52] <Gamma-X> how many t bolts do u think id need
[03:29:52] <gezr> can you relink the picture ds2?
[03:29:52] <Gamma-X> 3?
[03:30:01] <gezr> gamma-x a full set
[03:30:21] <gezr> as in get a whole set of tnuts and stuff
[03:30:24] <ds2> gezr: you going to be around for a while? I'll retail it with a better camera w/a proper macro mode
[03:30:29] <ds2> retake it
[03:30:31] <Gamma-X> gezr whats up!
[03:30:39] <gezr> ds2 : yeah man ill be here
[03:30:52] <gezr> gamma-x you get your electrician friend to take a look at your gizmo?
[03:40:30] <tomp2> I have a servo problem...
[03:40:30] <tomp2> baldor dc brushed motor with tach & copley 423 analog amp (used in velocity mode)
[03:40:30] <tomp2> It jiggles about .020" at 5 to 10hZ as soon as power and enable are applied.
[03:40:30] <tomp2> It was fine for several weeks.
[03:40:30] <tomp2> Now, I'm debugging it, so have motor coupling to axis removed and testing in open loop.
[03:40:30] <tomp2> Just a motor, dc supply, and amp.
[03:40:32] <tomp2> I've nulled the analog velocity input (strapped Vcmd & Vref to GND )
[03:40:34] <tomp2> also the tacho is strapped to GND ( in case some false feedback caused the jiggle ).
[03:40:36] <tomp2> It now runs away even tho nulled and this amp works fine when i swap it with X amp.
[03:40:38] <tomp2> Yet the X axis amp doesnt change Z's behaviour.
[03:40:40] <tomp2> I'm baffled how it moves at all with the Velocity command and tacho clamped.
[03:40:42] <tomp2> any ideas?
[03:41:31] <jmkasunich> I gain integrating tiny offset voltages?
[03:41:44] <tomp2> works fine when swapped
[03:41:49] <tomp2> possible
[04:04:53] <ds2> okay got some high rez pix
[04:05:23] <ds2> 3 of them to choose from: http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~huny/p1.jpg
[04:05:30] <ds2> http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~huny/p2.jpg
[04:05:33] <ds2> http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~huny/p3.jpg
[04:09:28] <gezr> ds2 what about the oppside side of that mount, between it and the plate/
[04:10:00] <gezr> ds2 : and if you really want me to teach you how to remove that castle nut I can tell you what you need to do
[04:10:14] <ds2> gezr: there isn't anything visible there, the mount sides out of the plate
[04:10:18] <gezr> but I want to see whats holding the outer races of those bearings in, I htink its on the oppside side
[04:10:28] <ds2> okay, back in about 2 minutes
[04:12:58] <gezr> let me see if I can cad something out too
[04:15:57] <ds2> I'll still post to the mfg form just to get extra opinions; this is a british lathe so there might be other gotchas
[04:17:17] <gezr> myford?
[04:17:34] <gezr> im drawing what im expecting that screw end to look like
[04:18:14] <ds2> http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~huny/p5.jpg
[04:18:16] <ds2> no, denford
[04:21:00] <fenn> first thing i'd do is wipe all that grease off
[04:21:18] <ds2> other then being a mess, why?
[04:21:39] <fenn> 'cause its a mess
[04:21:54] <ds2> okay, thought you were going to say, that might be causing the massing lash ;)
[04:22:17] <ds2> but yeah, clean up is part of it
[04:24:03] <gezr> there is probably your problem ds2
[04:24:14] <gezr> in that last photo, that big cicular ring gizmo
[04:24:31] <ds2> that disk at the end w/all the grease?
[04:24:32] <fenn> the bearing housing
[04:24:43] <ds2> how's that a problem?
[04:24:59] <jtr> ds2: Isn't that a ball-type oil fitting on the bearing mount? If it takes oil, why is grease there?
[04:25:28] <gezr> well the fact that its got metal chips on it says a lot
[04:25:44] <fenn> jtr: because some people have a religious belief that all things mechanical must be covered in sticky brown goo
[04:25:46] <ds2> jtr: donno; the manual calls out oil everywhere except for the headstock bearings
[04:26:05] <gezr> the grease is fine accually
[04:26:15] <gezr> look, you got a good milling vise handy?
[04:26:25] <gezr> and 2 pieces of 2x4 pine
[04:26:26] <ds2> got a screwless vise
[04:26:46] <gezr> I mean any sort of vise you can hold stuff tightly with and some pine boards?
[04:26:49] <ds2> I can find the 2x4's but I suspect that's beyond the capacity of the vise
[04:26:55] <gezr> I mean pine, and not oak not poplar but pine
[04:27:08] <ds2> Oh don't need to be precise... got a bigger bench vise
[04:27:09] <gezr> a bench vise will work
[04:27:18] <ds2> well, doug fir is probally what it will be
[04:27:25] <gezr> just something soft
[04:27:33] <ds2> I also got some pine 1x2 firring strips
[04:27:52] <gezr> take the whole thing over to that vise, and grip a large section of the screw with boards on it, in the vise
[04:28:00] <fenn> ew
[04:28:21] <Gamma-X> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=20674184&PMAKA=RP308-0503
[04:28:24] <Gamma-X> those any good?
[04:28:26] <gezr> wrap that tang on the castle nut back off the nut, then using a punch and a hammer, hit the castle nut freeing it up off the races
[04:28:43] <gezr> thats how you do that correctly
[04:28:56] <fenn> hit the castle nut?
[04:29:00] <ds2> wouldn't that bend it ?
[04:29:13] <gezr> yep, put the punch in slot at an angle and hit it till it unscrews
[04:29:19] <ds2> i understand what you are suggesting
[04:29:28] <Gamma-X> those any good?
[04:29:30] <ds2> it is basically a 1 point impact wrench
[04:29:31] <Gamma-X> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=20674184&PMAKA=RP308-0503
[04:30:00] <fenn> Gamma-X: say that again?
[04:30:09] <Gamma-X> are those worth buying?
[04:30:12] <Gamma-X> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=20674184&PMAKA=RP308-0503
[04:30:13] <gezr> ds2 : once you ahve that nut off, you can feel for play in the bearings
[04:30:17] <ds2> Gamma-X: why? do you really need 4 of them?
[04:30:23] <Gamma-X> lidk lol
[04:30:31] <Gamma-X> i never used one of them before
[04:30:32] <gezr> if you can slide that stuff off the screw your in pretty good shape
[04:30:37] <ds2> gezr: am I likely to find a conical needle bearing there or just a regular ball?
[04:30:53] <gezr> 2 ball bearings, more then likely
[04:30:59] <gezr> back to back
[04:31:11] <fenn> Gamma-X: probably cheaper to take a class than to buy stuff you dont need
[04:31:13] <ds2> Gamma-X: name brand edge finders aren't that expensive
[04:31:25] <ds2> gezr: okay, that sounds pretty reasonable
[04:31:29] <gezr> in a set up like this for the races /\ so that when the preload is set, they have no forward and backward motion with the screw
[04:31:31] <Gamma-X> ds2 recomend one off of enco?
[04:31:44] <ds2> I just need to becareful and not drop the ball nut =)
[04:32:00] <gezr> heheh put tape on it, to hold it in place
[04:32:01] <ds2> Gamma-X: not for something like things; the price difference just doesn't justify it
[04:32:30] <gezr> ds2 wait before you do any of this
[04:32:49] <ds2> gezr: okay. thanks. it might be a while before I try it though
[04:32:51] <gezr> ds2 : can you pull <---> on the screw and it moves inside that bearing housing?
[04:33:01] <Gamma-X> ds2 what do u mean?
[04:33:11] <ds2> gezr: yes
[04:33:23] <gezr> ds2 : then get on with taking it apart
[04:33:30] <fenn> Gamma-X: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=240-0131&PMPXNO=4822373&PARTPG=INLMK32
[04:33:36] <gezr> cause it shouldnt have any play what so ever
[04:33:47] <ds2> Gamma-X: a single enco brand runs maybe $10 or so... a B&S one goes for maybe $12-$15
[04:34:06] <Gamma-X> ds2 ahhh, i wanted to know what was the best brand enco sold.
[04:34:08] <Gamma-X> thanks
[04:34:23] <ds2> gezr: I am guessing I need to find the mfg specs for how to retighten it?
[04:34:28] <gezr> ds2 : either that screw was improperly tightened in the first place, which pulls the inner races together, or on the other side, there is another nut which pulls the outer races together, if either are loose, there is your problem
[04:34:51] <gezr> ds2, its finger tight, + 1/4 or next castle hold position normally
[04:35:03] <ds2> Gamma-X: look for Starret/B&S/Mititoyo... those are better then enco house brand; house brand == import, no name
[04:35:12] <gezr> ds2 : that make sense?
[04:35:18] <ds2> gezr: yep
[04:35:40] <gezr> ds2 it could be that they are a matched set, in which case, mega tight and mega tight
[04:35:45] <ds2> thought it might be more precise but since there are only 4 positions to lock it, that's the best one can do
[04:36:06] <gezr> think in terms of how you can gain stability from 2 bearings :)
[04:36:08] <ds2> gezr: think it is worth while posting to the denford obsolete product support forums?
[04:36:40] <gezr> it may or may not be
[04:37:03] <gezr> once you get that screw out you will know
[04:37:25] <gezr> oh, another thing, you may want to use a soft metal block instead of a punch to hit against that nut
[04:37:30] <ds2> from what you described, I don't need to worry about 10000 little peices falling out once i undo it
[04:37:37] <gezr> be sure you push the metal clasp out ouf the way
[04:37:55] <gezr> ds2 if they do, youll just be buying new bearings :)
[04:38:04] <fenn> do you really need to hit it with a hammer?
[04:38:07] <gezr> and if they do, thats the problem in the first place
[04:38:23] <ds2> sounds like I will be able to use those 1/4" alum rods I got sitting around (1000 series)
[04:38:27] <Gamma-X> i need to order smtin for 5 bucks lol what should I get, this is for free shipping
[04:38:30] <gezr> by hammer, I mean something you can strike with, by striking with, it doesnt have to be hard first
[04:38:54] <gezr> gamma-x get a vise hold down kit I think 12 bucks
[04:39:08] <Gamma-X> gezr wont that bolt kit suffice?
[04:39:21] <ds2> right... I'll start with a rubber mallet + alum rod to drive it; should be safe ;)
[04:39:22] <Gamma-X> the 52 piece one
[04:39:23] <fenn> 13/64 screw machine drill and 1/4-20 ground thread tap
[04:39:24] <gezr> yeah, but that way you dont have to use parts from your kit right off the bat
[04:39:33] <Gamma-X> i want to! lol
[04:39:42] <ds2> ground taps? just get a thread forming tap
[04:39:47] <ds2> you WILL appreciate it
[04:39:51] <gezr> not in cast
[04:40:03] <fenn> i like my ground taps
[04:40:11] <ds2> no chips; great for bottoming holes
[04:40:18] <ds2> fenn: but it is still cutting chips
[04:40:23] <fenn> so what
[04:40:28] <gezr> not good in all metals though ds2
[04:40:43] <ds2> chips == good way to break tap in blindholes
[04:40:56] <fenn> i dont do many blind holes
[04:41:03] <ds2> gezr: *nod* and useless in plastic but it is amazing
[04:41:26] <gezr> ds2 : in aluminum yes they are great, in brass, forgetaboutit, cast, same, 4140, it gets brutal
[04:41:31] <fenn> anyway its not chips that break a tap, its misalignment usually
[04:41:47] <gezr> bad drill choices too
[04:42:12] <gezr> then the killer, Ill just use this 25cent tap I got off that sale
[04:42:25] <fenn> sometimes you got no choice
[04:42:26] <ds2> I've done 12L14, 6061T6, 1018, and even some kind of brass and it ahs been great
[04:42:33] <ds2> oh and some 416
[04:42:48] <gezr> 416 rolls nicely, it has a tendency to work harden though
[04:43:05] <ds2> but whatever you do, don't get the harborfreight carbon tap set; that thing doesn't break, it twists!
[04:43:17] <fenn> is that a bad thing? :P
[04:43:35] <ds2> I was taking 0.005 cuts in 416 w/o any work hardening problem... I _LOVE_ 416 when it comes to SS
[04:44:07] <gezr> ds2 : oh man, seriously, once you get that castle nut off, hehehe, spend a buck 50 and put the screw in a bag, then sink the bag, in a 5 gallon bucket with the buck fifty in ice and some water to chill the shaft to help you get it out of the bearings
[04:45:00] <ds2> I'll worry about that when I get to it
[04:45:05] <gezr> but enough talk, you go now grasshopper
[04:45:16] <ds2> between all the other stuff, it'll be a while
[04:45:41] <gezr> hehehe
[04:45:47] <gezr> oh wait, a glorious moment
[04:45:50] <gezr> gezr is now known as gezar
[04:46:30] <fenn> glory be
[04:46:33] <ds2> and as far as taps are concern, spiral tip is the only one I would even consider
[04:46:45] <ds2> well, maybe spiral flute too but no straight flute stuff
[04:47:11] <gezar> ds2 orly?
[04:47:32] <ds2> orly?
[04:47:37] <gezar> oh really
[04:48:04] <gezar> straight flute taps have there place :)
[04:48:07] <ds2> yeah, not having as much backing up to break chips is a real nice thing!
[04:48:18] <ds2> oh? what app?
[04:48:20] <fenn> you shouldnt back up to break chips anyway
[04:48:33] <fenn> it dulls the tap
[04:48:46] <ds2> but how else do you use the hardware store style 4/3 flute taps?
[04:48:48] <gezar> inconel, ph hardening stainless steels, 41 series stuff
[04:48:50] <fenn> straight flute for cast iron and other hard crumbly stuff
[04:48:52] <jmkasunich> fenn: with a traditional hand tap thats all you can do
[04:49:17] <jmkasunich> I'm talking about steel or aluminum - stuff that forms a chip
[04:49:27] <jmkasunich> if you are doing something that crumbles its not so bad
[04:49:35] <ds2> but then that's why I prefer no chips }:-)
[04:50:03] <gezar> thread rolling is wicket cool, besides, you end up with a 20% strength gain over a cut thread
[04:50:51] <gezar> you just have to be extra carefull with your hole size
[04:51:47] <gezar> jmkasunich : I fixed the jitter problem I was having with my stepper board :)
[04:53:49] <jmkasunich> what did you do?
[04:54:01] <gezar> grounded the shield on the parallel cable
[04:54:28] <jmkasunich> noise sucketh
[04:54:39] <gezar> hooking up a seperate voltage source blew one of my chips out though, I dont have a Z axis any more
[04:55:33] <gezar> but I think I have one more chip from alegro handy, if its a no go, then ill have to test out their new ones
[05:00:45] <gezar> im having problems discovering a new chip to use
[05:03:28] <gezar> i dont want to go with a 28 pin chip
[05:12:59] <gezar> jmkasunich : are you still around?
[05:13:44] <jmkasunich> no
[05:15:11] <gezar> it appears that if I went with the newer chips, that I cant use my motors in the 6 wire config, I would have to just use them in 4 wire mode is that a bad thing?
[05:15:49] <jmkasunich> if by 6 wire you mean unipolar, and 4 wire you mean bipolar, usually bipolar chopper drives get the best performance out of the motor
[05:16:08] <jmkasunich> I don't know what mode each chip uses
[05:16:39] <gezar> okay, yes, the bipolar chopper is better then hu?
[05:16:46] <jmkasunich> yes, usually
[05:20:26] <gezar> hmm, the chips are all massive
[05:20:59] <gezar> but up to 35v 2.5 amp not too bad
[05:25:57] <gezar> sigh they are all solider on chips
[05:51:39] <maddash> BUG TYPO!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111
[05:53:50] <maddash> --- command.c2007-12-30 00:53:00.000000000 -0500
[05:53:50] <maddash> +++ command.c.fixed2007-12-30 00:53:31.000000000 -0500
[05:53:50] <maddash> @@ -538,7 +538,7 @@
[05:53:50] <maddash> emcmotStatus->overrideLimitMask = 0;
[05:53:50] <maddash> } else {
[05:53:51] <maddash> rtapi_print_msg(RTAPI_MSG_DBG, "override on");
[05:53:53] <maddash> -emcmotStatus->overrideLimitMask = 0;
[05:53:55] <maddash> +emcmotStatus->overrideLimitMask = 1;
[05:53:57] <maddash> for (joint_num = 0; joint_num < num_joints; joint_num++) {
[05:53:59] <maddash> /* point at joint data */
[05:54:01] <maddash> joint = &joints[joint_num];
[05:54:03] <maddash> jepler: cradek: ^^
[05:54:18] <maddash> or jmkasunich?
[05:54:42] <maddash> this is, of couse, revision 1.105 (HEAD)
[05:55:30] <maddash> logger_emc: may I have a bookmark?
[05:55:30] <maddash> I'm logging. Sorry, searching removed.
[05:57:54] <maddash> holy hell, it's a bot
[06:05:41] <maddash> hm, no one's listening
[06:05:57] <eric_U> can't be true
[06:06:40] <eric_U> logger_emc: bookmark
[06:06:40] <eric_U> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-12-30.txt
[06:08:48] <scutsxg> it is quiet here
[06:09:32] <eric_U> it's those darn europeans, can't hack the all-nighters
[06:10:26] <maddash> arghhhhhhhhhhh
[06:10:38] <scutsxg> hehe,most of people here are from usa europen
[06:10:41] <maddash> I'm a piss poor new yorker
[06:11:11] <maddash> yay, I've made my first contribution of the year
[06:11:25] <maddash> wait, nvm, it isn't 2008 yet
[06:12:31] <fenn> dont hear any gunshots, must still be 2007
[06:13:02] <eric_U> wonder why I need a via_agp module and a agpgart module?
[06:13:20] <maddash> fenn: damn straight. 2008 is going to be the year of my homicidal robot.
[06:13:22] <a-l-p-h-a> eric_U, no. not particularly.
[06:13:47] <eric_U> vga16fb sounds suspect too
[06:13:57] <fenn> modules? who needs modules
[06:14:01] <a-l-p-h-a> fenn, drivers.
[06:14:08] <a-l-p-h-a> kernel modules.
[06:14:14] <fenn> nonsense!
[06:14:26] <eric_U> I got more kernel modules due to video than any other single cause
[06:14:44] <eric_U> no wonder my latency stinks
[06:15:12] <a-l-p-h-a> fenn, nonsense is me being friends with this girl that I have a feeling will be more trouble than anything else.
[06:15:20] <maddash> why is emcmotStatus declared s-s-s-static in taskintf.cc?
[06:15:46] <a-l-p-h-a> maddash, are you sure it's not emoStatus in suicide.cc?
[06:16:32] <eric_U> it probably is
[06:16:39] <eric_U> static is often misused
[06:17:05] <maddash> eric_U: it's a global var. why staticize a global var?
[06:17:26] <eric_U> because someone didn't understand what static meant?
[06:17:30] <a-l-p-h-a> eric_U, haha... my office has carpet, and it's winter... I ZAP everyone with my electric personality.
[06:17:33] <maddash> a-l-p-h-a: yes, I'm sure, b/c the CNC hasn't broken its tooltip yet
[06:17:46] <maddash> [sigh] coders
[06:17:53] <eric_U> I've seen that one a lot
[06:19:34] <maddash> also, the lim override NML parameter shouldn't be called, "axis"
[06:19:58] <maddash> instead, "enabled"
[06:20:30] <eric_U> my favorite is when they reuse variables to save space
[06:21:07] <maddash> eric_U: example?
[06:21:20] <eric_U> there was one in the trajectory planner code
[06:21:59] <eric_U> I'm assuming there is more, but I could be wrong
[06:22:55] <maddash> hm, there's usually an overabundance of variables in the src/emc/ files
[06:23:24] <eric_U> I think that was a leftover from the NIST days
[06:23:51] <fenn> i'd rather have too many variables than not enough :)
[06:23:56] <maddash> really? that would be pretty disappointing, b/c I thought those guys were pros
[06:24:08] <eric_U> engineers are allowed to code too
[06:24:28] <eric_U> but we aren't necessarily good at it
[06:25:32] <fenn> NIST isn't perfect - EMC was one big ball of feature creep from the beginning
[06:25:35] <eric_U> I thought all those guys were controls engineers, not programmers
[06:25:40] <maddash> most of the coding style in the source is...undisciplined
[06:25:47] <maddash> for lack of a better word
[06:26:14] <fenn> not sadomasochist enough for ya?
[06:26:22] <maddash> fenn: indeed, and some of the attempts to "modularize" it are pathetic
[06:26:31] <eric_U> I like better looking code than I generally write
[06:26:43] <maddash> fenn: eg, the entire src/emc/task is one entire module that's trying to pretend otherwise
[06:27:10] <maddash> fenn: in reply to the "big ball of feature" remark
[06:27:26] <eric_U> it probably was one module at one time
[06:27:27] <fenn> maddash: back in 1995 or whatever, those pieces of code ran on different computers
[06:27:38] <fenn> i think
[06:27:50] <eric_U> it still will run on more than one computer
[06:28:01] <eric_U> but I don't think they ever forced you to do that
[06:28:03] <maddash> yeah, but in 1995, emc1 was being used
[06:28:10] <eric_U> and certainly not in '95
[06:28:10] <fenn> i was playing on the swingset in 1995..
[06:28:18] <maddash> as soon as emc2 was started, emc/task should've been reorganized
[06:28:52] <maddash> it's this kind of laziness that's going to pave the way for emc3
[06:28:55] <maddash> and emc4
[06:28:58] <maddash> and 5
[06:29:07] <maddash> ad infinitum
[06:29:25] <maddash> haha, I can't wait to see emc64
[06:29:33] <eric_U> it's certainly much better than emc1 as far as hardware goes
[06:29:41] <maddash> it's be like n64, except with dangerous tools
[06:29:47] <eric_U> I wrote a driver for emc1, it was a pain
[06:30:08] <maddash> yes, definitely. HAL made things a buttload easier and more clear.
[06:30:24] <eric_U> tell me about the dangerous tools part, I'm waiting for one of my fingernails to fall off
[06:31:14] <eric_U> got run over by my mill
[06:31:41] <maddash> 'run over'? your cnc grew legs?
[06:32:14] <eric_U> "why isn't this belt moving?"
[06:33:03] <eric_U> I learned some interesting facts about the commutation of brushless servomotors
[06:33:59] <maddash> ooh, brushless
[06:34:16] <eric_U> it's the only way to go
[06:35:47] <maddash> how much did they cost?
[06:36:11] <eric_U> I rarely spend as much as $100 on a motor or drive
[06:36:30] <eric_U> I'm thinking I probably have $400 in all three axes
[06:37:09] <maddash> WOW.
[06:37:43] <maddash> 400 +cost(drivers) >700, altogether
[06:38:02] <eric_U> no, I meant about $400 total
[06:38:11] <cradek> maddash: I think the existing code is right
[06:38:18] <maddash> cradek: hell no
[06:38:37] <maddash> cradek: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/src/emc/motion/command.c?rev=1.105
[06:38:54] <maddash> grep "case EMCMOT_OVERRIDE_LIMITS:"
[06:39:13] <cradek> yeah I saw your patch
[06:40:44] <maddash> cradek: I've tried configs/sim/tkemc , the override button does nothing w/o my patch
[06:41:17] <cradek> that's because you're not on any limits that need to be overridden
[06:42:08] <cradek> your patch always overrides a particular one, in addition to the ones that need it, which is wrong
[06:42:37] <cradek> in particular the negative limit of joint 0
[06:43:00] <cradek> the code is pretty clear if you go on reading a couple lines after your patch
[06:43:17] <fenn> (assuming one is familiar with masks and bitshifts)
[06:43:36] <cradek> well even the comment...
[06:43:44] <cradek> dang it's late, goodnight
[06:45:29] <maddash> cradek: you're right. I didn't realize that 2.2.2's override limit is different from pre-2.1.5
[06:46:18] <maddash> limit override protocol*
[06:50:02] <maddash> holy hell, nebraska
[06:51:35] <maddash> * maddash must rm -rf emc2_pre-2.1.5/
[06:58:37] <gezar> the current emc source code is at least a billion times better then it originally was
[06:59:01] <gezar> in terms of readability, and the likes, it was once a monster
[07:00:40] <maddash> you haven't seen emc.cc, emc.hh, the new emc_nml.hh, and src/emc/task/*, have you?
[07:01:01] <gezar> I saw them in emc before it was emc1
[07:01:32] <maddash> maybe the correct phrase is, "it was once a Galacticus' brother"
[07:02:43] <gezar> it was all one gigantic mess, mainly a test bed for a ton of differnet things
[07:03:55] <gezar> the whole remote stuff wasnt as simple as exporting an X server, it was the gui could run in vegas, and the machine could run in phoenix, and the trajectory stuff could be in new york
[07:04:54] <gezar> and most of the trajectory stuff was bugged really bad, the past 3 years have made massive advancments to that
[07:05:18] <fenn> you think it was buggy?
[07:05:33] <gezar> stuff such as acel/decel just didnt work
[07:06:59] <gezar> the hal stuff alone has been a massive upgrade to things
[07:07:39] <gezar> up till hal, there was clasicladder but it wasnt real time
[07:08:58] <maddash> stpid battery
[07:09:10] <gezar> emc just started off as a monster, and got picked up by the community, and its slowly becoming a masterpiece
[07:11:29] <fenn> gezar: and i bet most new people think its the other way around - ooo NIST ahh
[07:11:58] <Skullworks_PGAB> emc(1) was a monster to build and install when you had to hack up an RT Kernal for your flavor of linux
[07:12:21] <gezar> na, nist did good work, but it wasnt what most folks expected it to be, it was just a test bed for a whole bunch of stuff
[07:12:29] <gezar> Skullworks_PGAB : oh yeah, that was madness
[07:13:52] <Skullworks_PGAB> When you look at what the NIST team did you could see the Allen Bradley influence.
[07:14:06] <fenn> what's the Allen Bradley influence?
[07:15:18] <Skullworks_PGAB> AB was a contributing sponsorfor awhile
[07:16:22] <gezar> ftp://ftp.isd.mel.nist.gov/pub/
[07:16:38] <gezar> fear the dir rcslib and enter the hell it is
[07:17:36] <gezar> thats odd, some of the stuff isnt that old in there
[07:18:15] <gezar> oh yeah, they did the robo crane project in 05 i think
[07:18:22] <Skullworks_PGAB> pass (been there, done that, have the spiral bound notebooks)
[07:19:26] <fenn> they still use rcslib on stuff like the robo-hummer
[07:20:28] <gezar> yeah I think your right
[07:20:30] <Skullworks_PGAB> I used to be part of BLUG (boulder linux user group) that was coordinated out of the Boulder NIST facility back in the 90's
[07:23:28] <Skullworks_PGAB> fenn: what is the peak voltage/current you expect to use on your home grown servo amps?
[07:26:03] <fenn> oh.. whatever the fets are rated at
[07:27:04] <fenn> realistically something like 30V 5A
[07:29:17] <Skullworks_PGAB> I need more jucie
[07:29:58] <Skullworks_PGAB> about 15A @ 50V
[07:30:12] <a-l-p-h-a> frak'n bored.
[07:31:22] <fenn> supposedly irfz44n is rated at 55V and 49A, but not at the same time
[07:31:32] <fenn> so.. yeah
[07:32:05] <fenn> look at fig. 8 in the datasheet, "maximum safe operating area"
[07:32:08] <Skullworks_PGAB> back EMF, breaking is my worry
[07:32:20] <fenn> right, 5V is not a lot of headroom
[07:32:50] <fenn> nothing a couple zener diodes cant handle though
[07:34:39] <Skullworks_PGAB> use a 500W Quartz halogen flood lamp bulb as a breaking resistor
[07:35:23] <fenn> hmm. why
[07:36:11] <Skullworks_PGAB> its a whole lot cheaper than a normal resistor.
[07:36:28] <Skullworks_PGAB> and built to take the heat
[07:36:40] <fenn> but you're not going to be putting 500W through it
[07:36:49] <Skullworks_PGAB> true
[07:36:56] <fenn> not for very long anyway
[07:37:07] <Skullworks_PGAB> but I am not looking for "light" either
[07:38:53] <Skullworks_PGAB> I just saw a guy use one with his gecko 201's on a fast router - that thing stopped so fast it did kinda cause the bulb to flash
[07:39:58] <Skullworks_PGAB> servos supposedly don't back feed as much as steppers
[09:25:02] <fenn> http://www.waterholes.com/~dennette/trilamb.htm
[13:27:10] <BigJohnT> Is there something better than gaim for this?
[13:29:17] <Vq^> xchat and irssi is quite popular
[13:29:46] <BigJohnT> thanks, I'll give them a look see
[14:08:13] <jepler> maddash: sorry, your analysis of that code is wrong.
[14:12:11] <Vq^> hi jepler
[14:12:33] <Vq^> have you reinvented more fp in python recently? :)
[14:29:10] <kwaj> May i add my cnc machine to "case studies" (it's a 4 axis foam cutting machine)? Can i modify the wiki by myself?
[14:29:28] <BigJohnT> yes you just have to log in
[14:29:49] <BigJohnT> one moment i'll show you
[14:30:37] <BigJohnT> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BasicSteps
[14:53:11] <Gamma-X> hey BigJohnT whats up
[14:53:20] <jepler> Vq^: not that I know of, why?
[14:57:25] <BigJohnT> updating my web page
[14:58:30] <BigJohnT> and trying to find a cheap adc pci card
[14:58:48] <Vq^> jepler: i remember seeing some neat functional-composition function that you wrote for python
[14:59:42] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT i ordered my vfd and im buyin some stuff from enco right now
[15:00:10] <BigJohnT> which vfd did you get?
[15:08:32] <dsrogers> hello
[15:08:40] <dsrogers> does emc2 work with tormac cnc mills?
[15:09:18] <anonimasu> dsrogers: they dont sell cnc mills without controller anyway
[15:09:50] <anonimasu> dsrogers: but probably..
[15:15:44] <BigJohnT> What do you think about this circuit for getting analog signals into EMC2? http://linuxgazette.net/118/chong.html
[15:52:52] <kwaj> Can i add a seperate web page to "case studies" and upload a photo. I already tried to upload but nothing happens after a click the upload button?
[15:55:14] <kwaj> i was talking about the wiki.
[16:27:00] <micges> hello
[16:29:56] <micges> hello
[16:29:59] <micges> exit
[16:43:44] <eric_U> not much chatter, people must be working
[16:45:33] <Unit41> fu
[16:45:58] <Unit41> thats the sound of progress
[16:46:37] <Unit41> cant you hear those maxtors spinning ?
[16:49:27] <Unit41> the 4 port hub is almost smoking
[16:56:34] <Ziegler> modeling
[17:31:43] <Guest607> Guest607 is now known as alex_joni\
[17:31:48] <alex_joni\> alex_joni\ is now known as alex_joni
[17:32:25] <eric_U> darn, my coffeemaker stopped working
[17:36:09] <alex_joni> hmm.. my home server is not responding..
[17:36:13] <alex_joni> wanna change?
[17:40:41] <maddash> Happy New Year's Eve, fellow control-freaks!
[17:41:38] <Skullworks_PGAB> Control freq - thats a good one, have to add that to my geek code list.
[17:58:18] <maddas1> geez
[17:58:22] <maddas1> maddas1 is now known as maddash
[18:09:12] <maddash> one of the integer members of emcioStatus refuses to update -- everytime I assign it a value (from inside iocontrol.cc), it reverts to its old value -- any ideas?
[18:16:29] <alex_jon1> alex_jon1 is now known as alex_joni
[19:08:57] <maddash> what type is s32? is it equivalent to an int?
[19:14:33] <eric_U> never heard of an s32
[19:20:18] <jtr> signed 32 bit int, I think
[19:20:50] <eric_U> if you redefine it, will the compiler give you a warning that tells you where the original definition was?
[19:21:19] <maddash> typedef volatile __s32 hal_s32_t
[19:21:31] <maddash> so it's equivalent to an int
[19:21:31] <Gamma-X> any of u guys uysing a vfd?
[19:37:21] <Skullworks_PGAB> not yet
[19:43:13] <gezar> did you get yours in gamma?
[19:45:33] <Gamma-X> gezar got the machine but i ordered the vfd on friday
[19:50:50] <Skullworks_PGAB> I might swap out the motor and add a VFD to my IH mill sometime down the road, but thats very back burner at present.
[19:51:28] <eric_U> i'm using a vfd
[19:59:32] <Gamma-X> eric_U attached directly to spindle?
[20:04:22] <eric_U> attached to the motor which goes through belts and gears to drive the spindle
[20:11:02] <eric_U> I assume you are still thinking about using the vfd to drive your entire system, spindle, drives and control?
[20:18:39] <Gamma-X> eric_U yeah thats the plan
[20:19:40] <Gamma-X> eric_U any concerns about that?
[20:20:25] <maddash> useless
[20:20:37] <eric_U> I was looking at your schematics, and I couldn't really get my head wrapped around it
[20:21:11] <eric_U> maddash quits working on emc and goes to design screens for mach
[20:21:52] <Gamma-X> eric_U im gunna just power it like a phase converter
[20:22:09] <eric_U> Gamma-X: if everything gets driven by a dc power supply, I don't think you have much choice at this point
[20:22:25] <Gamma-X> im pretty sure.
[20:22:31] <eric_U> if they split out the ac and most of it is 220v single phase, I would probably split it
[20:23:11] <Gamma-X> im jsut gunna run the vfd at 60 hops or w/e its called and if i need reverse then ill hit the button to reverse the poles
[20:23:25] <Gamma-X> u guys ever hook up a 220 line?
[20:24:47] <eric_U> yes, don't do it
[20:25:07] <eric_U> do you have a circuit ready for this thing?
[20:28:25] <ALS> Gamma_X: are those all the schematics you have for the machine?
[20:28:43] <archivist> Gamma-X, you dont reverse the output of a vfd without letting it fully stop
[20:31:02] <eric_U> I can't see how reversing is going to work with this setup
[20:31:08] <archivist> and vfd almost allways have a direction input
[20:31:14] <eric_U> get another vfd for the spindle
[20:31:31] <eric_U> yeah, but he's driving his computer and everything from the vfd
[20:32:35] <eric_U> maybe someone on practical machinist has done this
[20:33:02] <eric_U> a rotary converter may be a better option in this particular case, as much as I hate to say that
[20:34:02] <gezar> all he needs is his vfd for his spindle, and to figure out the power lines for his control
[20:34:15] <gezar> his spindle isnt controled by the control as is
[20:34:55] <eric_U> that wasn't my understanding of his plans
[20:35:09] <gezar> he can wire direction right into the existing spindle pendant, and add a potentiometer to control the speed
[20:35:34] <eric_U> that's fine if he had a dedicated spindle vfd
[20:35:43] <gezar> thats what he paid for
[20:36:27] <eric_U> quoting myself: "I assume you are still thinking about using the vfd to drive your entire system, spindle, drives and control?"
[20:36:45] <eric_U> "Gamma-X: eric_U yeah thats the plan"
[20:37:02] <gezar> he doesnt have a vs spindle in the machine
[20:37:15] <eric_U> what does he have?
[20:37:25] <gezar> almost like a bridge port type head
[20:37:48] <ALS> vs spindle
[20:37:52] <eric_U> with a three-phase induction motor
[20:38:10] <gezar> its got a vs pulley on it I think right?
[20:38:21] <eric_U> my understanding his that the system is powered by a three phase dc power supply
[20:38:32] <gezar> nope
[20:38:56] <eric_U> single phase?
[20:39:17] <gezar> is this what your machine looks like gamma-x ?
[20:39:20] <gezar> http://www.magnumprecisionmachines.com/usedpgs/used_ycm40_supermax.html
[20:40:06] <gezar> see the spindle controls on the left of the spindle?
[20:40:22] <gezar> they are connected to a fwd/rev contactor block in the cabinet
[20:40:43] <gezar> speed is controled by the vs pulleys
[20:40:56] <ALS> the controler doesn't control the spindle at all?
[20:41:02] <gezar> machine motion is via the anailam control
[20:41:13] <gezar> als not acording to the shcmeatics I looked at
[20:41:28] <ALS> manual spindle control?
[20:41:32] <ALS> ok
[20:41:32] <gezar> yep
[20:41:56] <ALS> what is the pendant voltage?
[20:42:18] <eric_U> so the anilam control is single phase?
[20:42:18] <gezar> all he needs to do is figure out what power was entering the controls transformer, isolate the control and feed it the correct power, then plop the vfd in in place of the contactor blocks, and add a potentiometer for speed
[20:42:23] <gezar> yep
[20:42:33] <gezar> but I dont know if its set at 220 or 110
[20:42:39] <eric_U> well he better not hook it up to his vfd then
[20:42:46] <gezar> bingo
[20:43:07] <eric_U> you'll note I told him not to hook up his 220 power :)
[20:43:42] <ALS> pendant shouldn't be 110 though
[20:43:48] <gezar> I told him to isolate his transformer, and hook 110 into it, and to measure the output voltage headed for the control with the wires removed, i
[20:44:00] <eric_U> that's impressive they fit all that stuff into that cabinet
[20:44:10] <eric_U> I'm having trouble doing that with my control
[20:44:18] <eric_U> although the vfd does take up a lot of space
[20:44:41] <gezar> im thinking the control transformer is 220v single droping down to 110 for the anailam control, and control voltage for the motor is 110, typical 0 size contactor
[20:44:56] <gezar> there is another cabinet on the back of the machine I think
[20:45:10] <eric_U> I would think they would go with 24v contactors, but that's just me
[20:45:11] <gezar> I take that back, thats a big control cab
[20:45:50] <acemi> In Debian Lenny, it's needed more than 700 MB extra space for Lyx and it's dependencies to build documentations
[20:46:28] <eric_U> I would also think they need some lower voltage dc to power the limit switches
[20:46:58] <gezar> the control v has 18, 5, 10 and 35v outputs from a secondary power supply
[20:47:06] <gezar> i ithink
[20:47:21] <eric_U> that would rule out all of my assumptions :)
[20:48:44] <ALS> http://www.magnumprecisionmachines.com/usedpgs/used_ycm40_supermax.html
[20:48:51] <ALS> sorry
[20:52:42] <Gamma-X> it kinda looks like a ycm 40
[20:52:46] <Gamma-X> pretty much same thing
[20:53:28] <eric_U> is that your mill?
[20:53:36] <Gamma-X> pretty much same thing
[20:54:03] <ALS> Gamma-X:seems like there should be more schematics to the machine
[20:54:29] <Gamma-X> in reguards to what parts?
[20:54:59] <ALS> motor starter coolant starter?
[20:55:43] <Gamma-X> that
[20:55:49] <Gamma-X> the way that machine was made is this
[20:56:23] <Gamma-X> the company supermax made the mill and then bought anilam crusaders to put on it, and the schematics i have are only for the anilam products
[20:56:27] <Gamma-X> on the machine
[20:57:01] <Gamma-X> i found out the servos are 30m4-59
[20:57:34] <ALS> and you don't have the supermax schamatics?
[20:58:27] <Gamma-X> in an actual book but idk if the wiring is in there ill look now
[20:59:18] <Gamma-X> nope no wiring
[20:59:51] <gezar> gamma-x you test that transformer?
[21:00:11] <Gamma-X> no not yet, kidna have no way to test it at this time
[21:00:19] <gezar> no volt meter?
[21:00:20] <Gamma-X> pops is on my ass about that.
[21:00:28] <Gamma-X> hahahah im 22 and im livin at home...
[21:00:39] <Gamma-X> hes like a dog, follows me around when i work on it.
[21:00:42] <Gamma-X> its sad
[21:01:02] <gezar> im betting you can run that machine off 220v single, with your vfd and some slight modfications
[21:01:29] <gezar> the vfd is isolated from the control and then 220 into that black transformer and your done
[21:02:02] <Gamma-X> might work.
[21:02:07] <gezar> you could hav already had your machine up and running
[21:02:12] <Gamma-X> wires for that thing are every where lol
[21:02:19] <Gamma-X> no vfd yet
[21:02:21] <Gamma-X> waitin for it
[21:04:08] <Gamma-X> im gunna go look at it
[21:04:11] <Gamma-X> see what i can come up with
[21:04:27] <Gamma-X> the 3rd leg is prolly only runnin to the motor
[21:04:29] <Gamma-X> brb
[21:22:09] <cradek> are you sure none of the other transformers are 3 phase? the servo power transformer probably is
[21:32:05] <gezar> cradek thats a good question
[21:33:15] <cradek> well I've asked it before
[21:33:39] <cradek> I think he has said that the servos can be run by plugging it into 120, which seems unlikely to me, but I've never seen the machine
[21:33:56] <gezar> I cant find the servo cards on the schematics
[21:34:05] <cradek> you have schematics?
[21:34:20] <ALS> http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/Crusader%20II%20Wiring%20Diagrams.PDF
[21:39:09] <cradek> I agree those are not complete
[21:39:16] <ALS> ya
[21:39:33] <cradek> well it's probably the complete control
[21:39:37] <cradek> not the machine
[21:39:39] <ALS> gamma should call supermax
[21:40:07] <cradek> it should be very easy to determine whether anything else is 3 phase...
[21:40:15] <cradek> (haha, cassette)
[21:44:52] <gezr> I have no idea about the servo cards
[21:45:17] <gezr> they are 15A have rectifiers on them but I dont know, cant tell from looking at an ebay picture
[21:47:33] <gezr> http://www.servodynamics.com/Specs/815bl_spec.pdf
[21:47:41] <gezr> is a newer version of the card he has
[21:48:25] <gezr> so 20-80V dc, let me check the schematics for that sort of ps output
[21:50:26] <ALS> 5v =/- 4v and 6.25 amp fuse page 25 from the bridge
[21:50:37] <ALS> 35v sorry
[21:51:01] <gezr> yeah, but doesnt that seem small for that sort of drive?
[21:51:45] <ALS> I think so
[21:57:13] <gezr> im guessing thats all they need
[21:57:35] <gezr> 35v isnt bad, seeing how the drives can yank out the amps, but the 35v line is fused at 4amps
[21:57:35] <ALS> could be?
[21:58:16] <gezr> http://cgi.ebay.com/ANILAM-TREE-SERVO-DYNAMICS-DRIVE-BOARD-SD1525-10-52-15A_W0QQitemZ170148778949QQihZ007QQcategoryZ41941QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1723.m118
[21:58:23] <gezr> take a look at that board
[21:58:56] <gezr> gamma-x2 you there?
[22:03:22] <gezr> als : its looking like its just straight up ac to those cards, 120v in, then that massive rectifier churning out maybe 50v dc, and then those huge mosfets on the back doing the work
[22:04:22] <gezr> or am I just tossing darts blindly?
[22:04:57] <ALS> 6.25 amp fuse
[22:08:06] <gezr> the card is definately low voltage
[22:08:25] <gezr> i cant find anything specific on the net
[22:08:56] <gezr> and the card doesnt have any high voltage connection points
[22:10:37] <ALS> I'm still thinking about i/o for the vfd
[22:12:20] <gezr> oh thats easy
[22:12:54] <ALS> from the controler?
[22:13:03] <gezr> he has that pendant on the front right, so he can use it to connect to fwd/rev inputs on the vfd, then if he adds a trimpot he can control the speed
[22:13:09] <gezr> its not connected to the controler
[22:13:27] <ALS> i can't beleive that
[22:14:12] <gezr> why not?
[22:14:25] <gezr> its like a retrofit kit
[22:14:38] <gezr> manual spindle start, 3 axis cnc motion
[22:14:57] <ALS> my machine is 1978 vintage and it has spindle control
[22:15:28] <ALS> its not supermax though
[22:16:11] <gezr> he told us earlier that the motor is connected to a contactor block
[22:16:14] <gezr> fwd/rev
[22:16:30] <gezr> no different then putting a boss control on a bridgeport
[22:16:38] <ALS> ya so is mine
[22:17:17] <ALS> but it still gets turned on from the controler or manual
[22:17:38] <gezr> its possiable that the control can turn it on and off
[22:17:43] <gezr> but no speed control
[22:18:06] <gezr> probably has a variable pulley set up, I dont know
[22:18:11] <Skullworks_PGAB> can't have everything...
[22:18:18] <gezr> he isnt giving us the right info I dont think
[22:18:49] <ALS> more wiring drawings would help
[22:19:06] <gezr> yeah, or good photos of more of the guts, not really close ups, but just over all
[22:19:17] <ALS> sure
[22:19:24] <gezr> if I see a size 0 motor starter for example
[22:19:37] <gezr> or to look at the wires that come into the machine, and the likes
[22:20:04] <ALS> i see relays on the machine and no drawings
[22:20:34] <gezr> if I see 3 input terminals, and then those wires run to the motor starters, and then 2 wander off to the control, thats golden
[22:21:11] <gezr> but if I see, 3 and 3 and 3 all over the place there are going to be tons of questions
[22:21:28] <gezr> i think the relays are for the coolant motor
[22:22:25] <gezr> at least 1 of them is
[22:23:08] <ALS> ttl level voltage to relays then motor starter voltage
[22:25:15] <ALS> IMO
[22:26:57] <gezr> that could be, that way the control could do 24 to relay, then relay could send the 110 to the starters
[22:27:34] <gezr> bottom of page 15 7 pin connector pins to drive boards
[22:27:47] <ALS> lookin
[22:28:16] <gezr> on the drive board there is a 4 and 3 input at the top of the baord
[22:28:26] <gezr> http://cgi.ebay.com/ANILAM-TREE-SERVO-DYNAMICS-DRIVE-BOARD-SD1525-10-52-15A_W0QQitemZ170148778949QQihZ007QQcategoryZ41941QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1723.m118
[22:28:30] <gezr> if they are the same
[22:30:20] <gezr> page 22 has same so it may be a back and fourth
[22:32:28] <gezr> I just cant tell
[22:33:25] <maddash> one fucking typo
[22:33:36] <maddash> nine fucking hours
[22:34:18] <Skullworks_PGAB> hey as long as there was no majic smoke...
[22:34:59] <maddash> one well-placed typo = YABE
[22:35:56] <gezr> maddash you back up and headed in the right direction now?
[22:36:12] <maddash> gezr: *sniff* yeah.
[22:38:10] <gezr> so im thinking I can use my little bittie motors to make a 2x2x2 machine
[22:38:19] <Gamma-X2> im back
[22:38:20] <Gamma-X2> sorry
[22:38:22] <maddash> '2x2x2'?
[22:38:29] <gezr> yeah, 2inches,
[22:38:34] <Gamma-X2> im a kid what do u expect lol
[22:38:44] <maddash> 'machine'?
[22:38:46] <gezr> yeah
[22:38:51] <maddash> cnc?
[22:38:54] <gezr> yep
[22:39:49] <Skullworks_PGAB> make an extended travel version a 4x2x2
[22:39:58] <Gamma-X2> http://cgi.ebay.com/ANILAM-CRUSADER-2-CNC-POWER-SUPPLY-901-173_W0QQitemZ7533909135QQihZ012QQcategoryZ97184QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m118
[22:40:06] <Gamma-X2> thats the power supply on the controller
[22:40:36] <gezr> gamma, can you take a photo of the entire control cabniet?
[22:41:14] <Gamma-X2> wich cab. the power or the servo card cab?
[22:41:24] <gezr> both
[22:41:33] <gezr> * gezr didnt know there was 2
[22:41:47] <Gamma-X2> lol yeah
[22:42:28] <Gamma-X2> the picture with the transformer in the upper right is the servo control box. the one with the big fuses is the power box
[22:42:38] <Gamma-X2> still need pics?
[22:42:38] <gezr> links?
[22:42:41] <gezr> yes
[22:42:45] <Gamma-X2> one sec
[22:43:07] <gezr> dont zoom in on anything just get the whole cabinet, for each
[22:43:41] <Gamma-X2> ok
[23:09:51] <gezr> now see, im starting to get frustrated again
[23:10:14] <gezr> i have 3 motors, 3 drives, bunches of metal, and I cant think of a good way to put it all together
[23:10:35] <gezr> I keep over thinking things making it nearly imposiable to do at home
[23:12:54] <gezr> no I take that back, i have a nice hunk of aluminum I could probably use to do this
[23:14:22] <gezr> a 1x1 table would be the right size for a 2x2x2 machine right?
[23:15:56] <gezr> im going to need to go buy some plaster then so I can prototype this thing out, gonna be neat
[23:20:15] <maddash> why the hell would a nc file need to be prefixed and suffixed with a "%"?
[23:20:18] <maddash> that's shit dumb
[23:20:57] <gezr> it was a fanuc thing for sending receiving
[23:23:34] <ALS> maddash: where you always unhappy as a child?
[23:33:07] <maddash> I was unhappy at the World Trade Center, Hong Kong, Six Flags, and the ball pit at McD's.
[23:41:42] <Skullworks_PGAB> McD's - they should have had you chased by the King!
[23:42:19] <Gamma-X2> gezr
[23:42:20] <Gamma-X2> omg
[23:43:01] <Gamma-X2> maddash what kind of machine u have?
[23:43:59] <Gamma-X2> gezr i got the table to move i hit e stop, e stop off then reset and i started to hear a whistling/ buzzing noise i hit the move button and it did lol
[23:44:14] <Gamma-X2> so the problem we had with the vfd is pretty much over! lol