but that is what my machine basicly is with a differant controller
gotta clean it up first
u have no idea
the paint is peelin and bubblin its that bad lol
I can imagine
im just wondering how hard it would be to convert it to emc. but the controller works on it...
dunno I've not done servos with EMC yet...
installin the main spindle motor was a head ache lol
does it have vari speed belt drive
you know how to take them apart?
If you don't do it right it's almost impossible to put back
yo erickson quick change is nice! lol
for an old machine u press a button and boop out pops ur tool lol
yep beats r8 anyday
it sucks I have it on my manual mill
you can only set one tool at a time
not really but you have to set the z each time you load a tool
what do u mean
oh big john
it turns out my glass scales were replaced.
he said the z axis scale was worth like 500 bucks.
each time you put a tool in the r8 collet you don't know how far it went in
well I hear the dinner bell ringing out on the porch
aite c ya in a bit
anyone recomend a cheap cheap but alright sjhop vac?
merry christmas everyone
from all of mine.. a very merry christmas to everyone and the best of the new year....
humm.. it was a very nice choice
got a great laptop for my wife :)
Gamma-X: oh, the paint peeling isnt really a big deal.. it depends on how much you love it.
Gamma-X: I use some solvent like brake cleaner.. then I wipe down the machine with a rag and oil.. to keep rust away..
I used engine cleaner on my Van Norman
washes off with water
the disadvantage is that it removes the oil that is soaked into the pores of the cast iron
brake cleaner is damn fast, but if you dont wipe cast iron after using it it'll rust
the brake cleaner goes away by itself
my mill had so much gunk and chips on it - there is a little tray on the side where you can set tools, spare collets, etc
there was a 3" diameter x 3/16" wide horizontal milling cutter in that tray, and it was completely invisible until I started cleaning
compiling sim on debian/lenny doesn't require RTAI, does it?
compiling sim on debian/lenny doesn't require RTAI, does it?
omg omg omg omg
and im not even a gay
maybe im just getting too worked up over it all.
hitting the eggnog are we?
beer only for this guy
[01:41:00] <alex_joni> http://www.narfnar.com/bilder/00004.jpg
that picture is missing some panties.
there's no tits or panties
* Unit41 ponders
did you do that whole picture with the same bit in the head ?
judging by the URL, alex didn't make the part or take the picture, he just posted the link
narfnar.com is na
the only way he could know the picture link is to know it
the 'bilder' part might be a hint that the pic is from germany
alex_joni, what's the pink thing? paint? tape? why's it pink?
a-l-p-h-a: as jmkasunich said, not my pic
just read that
what's going on alex_joni?
make any new robots?
not much.. should be getting to bed
do you participate in robot death matches?
nah.. different kind of robots :)
build robots that make robots that destroy. then they can cycle... and create a whole new economy.
you cannot distroy what you did not create
thats a good idea...
I wanna love u but i never not touch
i wanna hold u but my senses tell me to stop
power power everywhere
whats that from? lol
from my head now start asking better questions
these broken wings!
i cleaned up the cnc a bit tonite. my hands are so cut up beyond beliefe lol
good night all
im getting the recent iso, gonna try it out
i will not try to run my stepers on ac
ok but be sure to make them go fast
cant computer is a 486
well 586sux but still
and you expect to cnc with it in linux ?
it will make motors whirl
you might want to use another dos based approach like turbo cnc
thats about all that maters
I dont have a machine built, so I just listen to the motors whirl, that tells me how things are working
a laptop is like 200 nowdays
if I want to make things move quickly I build a freq generator and go nuts
you are old
ive ran some of the fastest machines out there, just listening to a motor hum is enough
no chips and the part in my head is still up there :)
quick developer question, back oh 3 years ago, there was a bunch of stuff in the tree, has most of that been cleaned out?
I cannot remember what it was called specifically
rtapi no thats not it, it may have been all the remote operation stuff, is all of that still in there?
Merry Christmas everyone
anyone use wireless rs232 adapters?
I do not
gezr what kind of cnc u got?
[03:16:05] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69FqfVpZVvA&feature=related
ooohhh - I like the way they do the 4th axis on that machine
omg what software were they suin?
this ones beter !!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bWG8vEAVRg&NR=1
I don't think that question has a simple (or single) answer
one prog for digitizing from the person, another for cad, then cam, then machine control
that looks like seimens
heh, they don't show the human posing for that one ;-)
and I dont have a cnc machine
all i have is a few stepper chips and some steppers
does that make me bad?
crap, I forgot how to burn an iso in windows, I hope the auto thing does it correctly
M$ can't burn an iso directly
thats what I was thinking, hmm,
gimme a few minutes
oh well i guess
SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPLaptop
er, where does EMC2 look for configs?
/usr/share/somethng or your home dir/emc2/configs/
maddash: 'man emc' will show you the currently configured search path
I'm a tad disconcerted
to see an old config file I used
show up when I run 'scripts/emc' on this computer
I think run-in-place checks your home directory, same as an installed version would
I'm not sure if that's a problem or not
seriously building your own cnc is a curse
nothing ever works out properly
but if you're compiling RIP versions, then it's reasonable to expect that you know how to manage directories and stuff
atleast emc works
whats the best base to use for cnc ?
that channel alu ?
No, styrafoam ;)
what about abs ?
No plastic/polymer is a good base
hasta la vista, babies!
Merry Christmas SWP
same to you (or something like it)
really ?so my best bet is 2x 4's then ¿
for a gantry cnc?
shit I duno
just standart run of the mill plasma and wood engraver
lol, well if you don't...I aint a mind reader =)
ah, well some use 80/20
im using angle iron for the rails
[03:48:56] <Jymmm> http://www.8020.net/
and angle alu with z608 bearings
and you can find it on ebay too - they sell theri remnants up there
even on ebay ?
whats the best z axis setup ?
2 pole rail ?
[03:51:45] <Jymmm> http://stores.ebay.com/8020-Inc-Garage-Sale_W0QQssPageNameZstrkQ3amefsQ3amesstQQtZkm
omg I just rolled out my old ppro box, i think Ihave 8 drives in the darn thing
anyone recomend a book on the basics of setting up a cnc machine like how to set home, and aligning the stock?
there are some general guides on the net
how you set origins will be different on every control
same for tool lengths
cradek well in reguards to general machining though
but the general ideas are all the same
im jsut lookin for a book to read on the topic.
gamma-x : there are mainly just general rules to follow, and a million differnt ways, its sorta something you will get used to as time passes
sorry, not really
have any specific questions? do you have a vise and is it mounted correctly?
do you have parallels for it?
dead blow hammer? dial caliper?
dont know what parralells are.
i got calipers
parallels are used to lift the work in the vise jaws, keeping it parallel to the bottom of the vise, which is in turn parallel to the table
so the drill dont go into the table
right, or for many other reasons
i saw a work stop 2. i guess thats for makin multiple pieces.
[04:08:02] <cradek> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=789
gamma-x : we talking about a cnc machine running emc rightnow?
these are very cheap but they're fine
gezr no. cnc with a crusader II control
doesn't matter, this is the same even on a manual mill
actually there's a lot to be said for starting on a manual mill.
fewer things to know at once.
well how do u tell the machine where the stock is?
and how would u align the stock?
to a large extent you align the stock by putting it in the vise which you previously aligned.
alignment is done with a dial indicator normally you indicate the vise in first, that way your fixed jaw is parallel to an axis on the machine.
the back jaw of the vise is parallel to the table travel
yes you use a dial indicator in the spindle (and a dead blow hammer to tap the vise around with) to get it parallel
oh so u know the back of the vise is parralel with the table.
do NOT hammer anything the dial indicator is touching. you will ruin it if you do.
what if i dont buy a swivel viswe
you don't want a swivel.
good cheap dial indicator?
a non-swivel still has to be aligned.
yes cheap is fine
cradek would kill me for what I have done with indicators
u put the indiactor in a tool and into the cnc, touch one side with the idicator then go to other side and indicate it again?
yes you slide it along the back jaw by moving the table.
if it is squared up, the needle won't move as you do this
gamma-x : look all the alignment, setting, positioning all of that stuff, becomes second nature but, the setup that you put into your work, pays off on the work you get out
gezr: it's not second nature if you have not done it.
whats a good dial indiactor?
and anything else ill need.
making your first block actually come out square to your ability to measure it is rewarding. it is NOT easy.
i appreciate ur help guys. i know ive been a pain the last few weeks.
a good indicator is one that when you depress its range, that it returns to the previous reading, that as you basically flick the working end it shows basic repetability
then make a 1.000 x 1.000 x 1.000 cube. It might take you hours but you will square up a lot of pieces of material in your life.
cradek a manual makin of the block or a cnc block?
either. same process.
all measurement equipment like all tools is comparable to its price, but thats not always the case
lets see for the block
see the lower right corner
this is the style most useful for squaring up a vise
yeah those arnt bad at all
it will include a 3/8" post that will let you install it in whatever tool holder or collet you have
Gamma-X: lindsaybks.com has lots of 'how to run a machine' type books
once you get your vise square, run the indicator across the bottom of the work area of the vise, ie where you would rest a work piece, check to see how perpendicular to the spindle it is since youll already have the indicator inthe machine
it should be very flat
and then check the rear jaw to see if it is parallel to the travel of the head
those are important in making the square block
i need a vise... lol
im gunna get the non moving enco one.
and since most stores are closed right now, and im betting your wanting to do something with your machine right now right?
do you have T nuts and a clamping set?
just a maching with general tooling.
you'll want that too
i cant do anything until i get my vfd
that will be friday
thats for your spindle ?
3hp vfd or 5 hp rotary phase converter
you can make some t-nuts for practice, then you'll be at cradek's level :)
whats a t nut
T nuts are actually not as easy to make as you think.
i cast mine to shape :\
ef them, they come in bags from the store
ok, you could actually take longer to make them than I did
gamma-x : t-nuts are nuts that slid into the T slots onthe mills table
Gamma-X: how close are you to lincoln NE?
lock down a vise?
to keep things from tearing up your machine
what state is ne? lol
i live in ny
any community college that teaches basic machining? I took the first couple classes many years ago, it was super helpful
very affordable too
[04:26:54] <Gamma-X> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMKANO=130&PMPAGE=20&PARTPG=INLMPA&PMCTLG=01
look at the one on the left middle comes with mag holder i think. hows that
you do want the .030 travel model
[04:27:36] <cradek> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=606&PARTPG=INLMK3&PMITEM=505-4338
this is a decent clamp set (upper left)
you can find them cheaper
be sure to measure your table's slots and get the right size of T nut.
gamma-x oh until you get the stuff to accually start working with metal, and you dont need your vfd for this, is you can use a sharpe pen mounted int eh spindle, and cardboard tapped to the machines table, and you can do 2d writting, its like cutting cept you draw black lines
gezr my servos run off of a box that is fed by 3 phase...
oh so yeah you need aphase converter
cradek look on theat same page top left what is that for?
the main transformer is 3 phase? you need more than a vfd then.
gamma-x yeah, cradek is right, sounds like you need a big phase converter
not a vfd, a vfd will cause problems with the controls
i dont want to use a rotary phase converter
its so stupid! lol
i want a big static! lol
they are the best way man
the top left indicator has a lot longer travel, like 1". Sometimes this style is easier to use.
cradek is it used for up and down? instead of forward back?
the small travel one (.030) is mostly for making things flat. the long travel is mostly for measuring heights
yes that's right
static converters dont provide the same power as a rotary, Im not an EE so I cant tell you the difference, but if your largest motor is 5hp, go with a 7.5 rotary
both are useful but I always use the small one more
gezr what brand phase converter do u have
I have 3 machines, all manual and all 110
but if I needed 3 phase, I would go with a rotary
its what my friends do and use
Gamma-X: you know the difference between a static phase converter and a vfd, right?
cradek do i need adge finders?
yes, you will need an edge finder
dial indicator seems kinda useless with a cnc
holy crap, enco's 71/2 is a grand ouch
Iuse dial indicators all the time with a cnc
not dial test indicators, but the long travel ones
yeah I don't use the long one much. but sometimes it's nice to have.
yeah Iknow what your saying, but they are uber handy
(not sure when I used it last)
[04:36:46] <Gamma-X> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMKANO=130&PMPAGE=27&PARTPG=INLMPA&PMCTLG=01
what should i get on that page
best for sweeping in a table, just unscrew the arm fromthe base and shove that in a collet, did and done, good for setting a vise at an angle, test indicators cant do that, dial cant either depending on angle, all sorts of uses
why bother sweeping in a table to .001
get one good, not four cheap, edge finders
you can see .001
fenn, cause its done over 10 inches if not more
cradek how about a fowler electronic edge finder
fenn these are just simple hacks
I like the traditional kind, electronic is a gimmick, others might disagree
I agreewith cradek
cradek how do u use one of them?
i hate electronic edgefinders.
[04:39:27] <cradek> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=601-1212&PMPXNO=948532
get this one
do not get a chinese edge finder, I got one that was totally unusable for a few dollars cheaper than this one
(assuming you have a 1/2" holder to put it in)
fenn : I agree with you about sweeping in a head, but once you get down to .001/5 or more inches, its almost not worth the effort you know?
you could get one with a 3/8 body too if you have that holder
cradek i got all types of holders
i prolly got 10-15 of them
ok just be sure to check the diameters before you buy stuff
[04:41:31] <cradek> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=275&PMITEM=601-1212
I use the wiggler set quite a bit too. but some people don't use them at all.
(upper right of this page)
gamma-x an edge finder like that one, works like this, and they come with instructions, but you have your spindle turning 500 or so rpm, youll notice that the end of the edge finder is wiggling in space, as you move closer to the work piece with the edge finders working part, it starts to smoth out
then all of a sudden it will jump to one side
slow the scale of your movements down, back off, then go back into the work till it jumps over, raise it up off the work, then move in an aditional 1/2 the dia of the finder, and blamo, thats one edge
what? lol that sounds retarted lol
[04:43:28] <cradek> http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/edge/edgefind.html
lots of 'howtos' online
why are electronic edge finders no good?
batteries, not always working with metal work pieces, batteries
is an old-style edge finder better than using a digitizing probe?
I dont think so
also since they don't spin they rely on their own concentricity
fenn: sure is cheaper
* fenn was thinking a ball bearing on a stick
well a probe has concentricity issues too
I think you can repeat with an edge finder/wiggler to .0002 or better
I have .0001 incremental jog and it will kick on one jog
no idea how a probe would compare
i wanna see a video of this kick bullshit lol
an electronic one can accually missread say if you have a static charge and so on
the lasers say .001 or .002 in their advertisements
[04:47:53] <Gamma-X> http://www.haascnc.com/solutions_tooling.asp
the electric ones, are either completing an electric loop, or relying on a pressure to move the ruby over x amount
cradek: they're useful for checking if your .001" endmill is still there or not
I meant the new laser edge/center finders
eh, what it draws a red spot on the center?
yep it's a laser pointer pointing down from the spindle
that's not even good enough for carpentry
damn him, santa left me another bag of shingles, he tore my roof up again.
why would you put a laser sight in a spindle to find a location?
don't ask me - I wouldn't
[04:52:49] <cradek> http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2604
because you have $84.50 to waste?
ooh a video
[04:54:17] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/first-milling-1782.jpg
got to buy that too
its only been about three years since I decided to put EMC on that machine
you can see the backlash - gotta measure that and compensate
yep the C especially
and top right inside angle of the M
wierd i cant view any web pages but i can talk on here..... odd
are those desktop switch things safe to use?
turns out wife donated a little 15 inch display to a friend, now im needing a monitor, and I have one of those switches
a KVM switch?
yes, thats the name
I've been using one for years
(and am right now)
well, its officially Christmas here - midnight
couldn't have had better timing for my first milled part ;-)
Merry Christmas everyone
hahaha, on that old ppro box, i found a bdi live rc14 cd,
I'm glad you finally have a cnc machine
heh, no wonder the surface finish isn't great - it was running about 19 SFPM
1/8 ball end, cutting dia about 0.050
you definitely need a few rpm for those
this machine only goes up to 2400, that was cut at 1450
my machine does 4200!
and i know thats nothing still lol
on a good day
your machine isn't a chinese 3-in-1
mine says 4200, but over about 3000 the dial is red
even at 1450 I could feel the head vibrating - things aren't balanced, etc
I don't know what that's supposed to mean
touch the quill every once in a while to see if the bearings are getting warm?
red = STAND BACK
gnight all aswell
see u inthe am!
it is the am here
maybe when i wake up there will be a CNC milling machine waiting for me as well
anyone on who is very familiar with the live cd?
I guess i have a bad burn, maybe not, it could be the machine
fenn: or, a lump of coal. One of the two =)
gezr: Try burning it at 4x speed. But make sure you verify the MD5 of the iso that you downloaded first.
so far no error in another box
im trying to salvage 2 computers worth of 10 years work, so we shall see what I can do with this
na getting a buffer error, probably a bad burn, gonna try it again
oh wait, it managed to read past the error, I win
but still gonna make a new disk just to be sure
hly crap its loud
im just going to have to find an empty drive i guess
is it possible to adjust the feedrate of one axis independently of the others (say, ajusting Z in realtime independently of X and Y)?
that doesn't make any sense
feedrate is independent of any particular axis
it would change the shape of the path, too
it would theoretically be possible to change the joint velocity limits while running, but i dont see that happening any time soon
bah, doesn't matter
I've done already by writing my own little module
uh.. how does that work?
I'm using emc to control my robot
it makes sense for the front and rear legs (X, Y respectively) to move according to some canned nc code cycle
the head (Z axis), on the other hand, can be instructed by both manual and nc code control
how do you do "manual" control?
basically, I hacked together stepgen and some limit switch monitoring (wouldn't want the head to twist off) from motion.c
eg, if the Z axis is executing G0X50Y50, and I happen to hit "Jog," Z would stop G0-ing and start jogging.
not only that, Z now has its own limit monitoring, so that if my pet decides to "watch his back," he could do so without missing a step
i agree there needs to be different types of run modes to allow for continuous processes
for example a telescope could track the rotation of the earth
Merry Christmas everyone, & thx to all the dev's for their work
tomp2: merry christmas
just drinking my first cup of coffee
im pondering some algorithms
going to have a bath in a bit
[14:18:37] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFqUMKlCCFY
right back at you !
i'm building a cnc plotter
and i'm wondering if using a solenoid to control the pen is a good idea
we had a plotter that used a solenoid to drop the pen
how should i configure emc for that?
I am sure there are a ton of ways.. you can use use http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/gcode_main.html#sec:M62-to-M65:
or I am sure you could do it in hal (maybe using the z axis and some hal componants. (-z is down +z is up) (just thinking out loud
last sounds better
* skunkworks was hoping someone else would jump in.. ;)
cyborg_ar: you can set up some window comparators based on the Z position
so if it exceeds a certain value you command the solenoid
the question is...... how?
cyborg_ar: first step is get emc2 running :)
i have the live
ok, then you passed #1
step 2 is start reading the HAL docs ;)
there is a nice HAL tutorial included with the User Manual
cyborg_ar: after you read that you'll understand how HAL works in connecting various components together
(think of it like an electronics board, where you connect wires & such)
is like object oriented programming
you have small software entities
which act like tiny black boxes
each of them have pins and parameters
you create/modify a configuration by adding/removing boxes (components)
and linking them together
something like that
for example.. emc2's motion controller has pins called axis.2.motor-pos-cmd
the pos-cmd is the position command that comes from the motion controller
the feedback .. well you probably can guess what that is
yes, the encoder
then.. for a stepper system we use a 'stepgen' component
the stepgen is a black box with pos-cmd as an input, and it generates step and direction pulses
i use disk drive 1.8ª steppers
and it reports the current position using the pos-fb pin
for a servo system it's set up a bit different
the pos-cmd goes to a DAC which drives an analog servo drive controller
can i control the motors directly? i mean, adding another block to generate the step sequence
and the encoder (attached to the motos) is connected to an encoder counter, which counts the encoder and converts the count into a position
well.. you could, but you don't have to
stepgen has about 14 types of step signals it generates
I bet you can find the one you need already part of it :)
[15:03:21] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/2.2/html//hal_rtcomps.html#sub:Stepgen-Step-Types
how many phases does your motor have?
i use disk drive 1.8ª steppers
i'd like to use the half step pattern
but i dont know if the motor will have enought strenght this way
I'd try step type 6 or 7
there you have 2 coils energized all the time, thus making it a bit stronger
maybe even step type 9
* cyborg_ar takes down notes
cyborg_ar: we have a logger in here..
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-12-25.txt
and you can usually find people around the clock in here (living in different timezones)
skunkworks: ping me when around
hey! that's not fair, you don't warn in the topic about that! ;)
about what? the logger?
topic would be too long if we would warn about all things :)
like "a CNC hobby can cause much harm to your wallet"
in my plotter i just spend $0
that's only true if you work for free
never forget it
i'm very rich!
(in free time)
you didnt get what I meat did you?
as long as it's fun ^^
time is gold
here is my time, i want my gold!!!
i can't find any good mechanism for dropping the pen
how dop you want it to work?
you can use a solenoid and have the pen spring loaded..
so that when you release the solenoid the pen goes back up
What kind of mechanism do you want/have in mind?
a solenoid that pulls a lever that pushes the pen against the paper
there you go :)
i should put a couple of springs
so the solenoid doesnt break the pen
sorry, my english is horrible
merry christmas to all
merry christmas yall
it appears my data may yet be saved
how's it going? you were absent for quite a while :)
I hope this comming year brings more involvement for once to the emc project
yeah, been playing wow, and working and now im not working, going to be going back to school, so I have freetime
good evening alex
I look back at the years ive spent in here, and how much I really helped, which wasnt much if any at all
well.. it's the thought that counts :)
I dont even have a developer title hahahaha
well, Ive helped folks with methods of machining thats for sure
maybe this time ill do more then look at the code and thing omfg wtfisthat igiveupnow ktksbye
so alex, for real here, is a lot of the remote stuff finally gone?
nope, the ppro locked up again on the scsi drive, maybe I wont get my data back after all
i guess I can browse the tree, I take it paul moved his tree off source forge?
gezr: He released some newer BDI (newer after you left) called BDI 4.xx I think xx got up to 40 or so.. no idea
but the code for that was in his public repo, with no anon access..
paul tried to work with me some, I didnt know how to do what he was asking me to to each time, and I felt bad asking, and so I gave up once again
now he started a different project called tuxcnc, where he wants to reinvent all of emc I think..
he has the source somewhere on gna
well, I dont know any of the details, I htink I may have read about it some on the emails
gezr: it's not really important :)
anyways.. we moved away from sourceforge because of reliability issues, the code is now at cvs.linuxcnc.org
yeah I can see that :), makes me sad though still
gezr: I'm not sure you should be sad
different ideas & projects can only benefit the end user
yeah, so the rcslib and stuff seem gone?
anyways.. if you wanna help.. I have something for you :D
gezr: rcslib is reduced to libnml, and it's integrated with emc2
gezr: what I would care to hear about, is how you see the project..
that was the massive old junk from nist right?
beeing away for a while, just looking at webpages & such and telling me how clear/easy/hard/obtuse it is to find usefull info
gezr: it's not really old junk :)
I have to get a computer up and running 2.2.2, I have it on cd, I just cant perserv my old data yet, were talking 10 year old machines here
the web site is nice
the cvs is simple to navagate
I dont know, thats what I wrote on the cd
when did you grab the cd?
yeah, emc2.2.2-1-ubunto, yesterday
oh, righty.. then it's the latest
btw.. it's ubuntu :)
you remember me having to hack the hell out of debian to get what you guys had done working :)
gezr: it's a bit foggy
I saw hundreds of users in the last 3 years I think :)
(at least it feels that way)
well, im no smarter now then I used to be, but maybe a fresh look at things will allow me to help for once
a fresh look is always welcomed
you know, I was so excited last time I was really playing, about the look ahead accually working, in fact, I can say, I was on irc the moment that whole fix started
I think it ended up being something very simple, and at that time, hal was just starting to be written
right.. HAL is really mature & nice nowadays
and what wonders me the most is that people really understand it now..
back then I remember struggling with each & every new user in here, till they understood how it worked
it always seemed like a nice way to do that
nowadays there are people that simply astonish me what they do on their own :)
well, with going back to school, and not having spent any money on a machine, I still dont have a cnc machine
and I probably wont, what ive always wanted is far beyond the scope of a small shearline type machine, and well, while I know enough shops to make the parts, I dont have the money to get them made
just a simple 6x6x6 envelope is all I want, with the ability to take 1/4" cuts in 4140 with 1/4" end mill, thats all
I think from what ive seen now with emc, I know the software can do it
I think there needs to be some aditional cycles written up especially for the multi axis machines being built
I read the thread about conversational programing, did anyone decided there what is in reguards to pattens and the likes?
and you guys know fagor uses linux to run all of its new machines right?
or new controls accually
there are a lot of machine builders that do that lately
gezr: did you see our wiki?
looking for the link
found it, very nic
lots of pics, videos & such
you guys still using adeos?
it's called IPIPE nowadays
watching some videos
dogs having one heck of a fit, I think I have company i shal return
The_B is now known as The_Ball
alex my big box locks up on the scsi drives :(
im going to try to put the controler card in the little one and see what happens
well so far so good, the little box is booting, having to fsck the drive 202days without a check
i dont think i have scsi in the kernel but im about to find out
that machine takes soo long to build a kernel, oh man
reminds me of the days I built kernels on my ~300 MHz SBC
this thing I think is clocked in Hz no M to it
the way its compiling makes me think my last build was a make clean... but I dont know
I hope it works
once I get my data backed up, I can start playing with emc2
gezr: I see you made a highlighter for mc a while back
(reading back through really old logs)
yeah, its a vim file
yeah, I know that.. but for 'mc' ?
so if you wanted to open a .ngc file with vim, you had syntax highligthing
is that what your asking about?
robin has the .vim file on his site, google, ngc.vim
there is a specific place to put the file then if you have syntax highlighting turned on in vim, when you open a .gcode or .ngc or a certian type of comment file it comes up in colors
and I dont know what you mean by mc
00:29:05 <gezr> I also did one for mc but its not so good, mc has a very strange parser
oh yeah, midnight commander
do you still use that?
the data im trying to save may have that parser file, I dont think I was able to get it working correctly
I still use that.. yeah
it would clober terms i think like n010 was right, G01 was right, then all the other stuff got garbbled up with colors
did you want me to try and get that working again?
as soon as I find it ill try and get it uploaded somewhere
im getting happier, 2 drives checked out so far, no data, 1 locked up
having a bunch of scsi drives in a machine is cool, telling your friends that the total drive space is under 10gig is not
another 1 gig drive checked out just fine
on the last large connector drive now
that one was a bad one
gonna try the 2 uw drives at the same time
they should be fine, they are much newer
i was wrong hmm
found a huge hunk of the missing data :)
my car is messed up lol omg
im so excited about my data being safe so far :)
* fenn wonders about etching a mirror with the toner transfer method, for making an optical encoder
now that i think about it a bit, photosensitive emulsion seems to be the way to go
i dont know anything about photography
are you looking for a cost effective solution?
no, i'm just casting about in the dark for ideas
a home made encoder would be fun to make for sure
i have an idea for what i call a 'vernier encoder'
it's two encoder masks held close together, and one has one more line than the other
that even sounds neat, what is your resolution goal?
say you have a 360 line rotor and a 359 line stator, then you will see a sinusoidal change in the transparency as the rotor moves through one degree
so you can do it with big fugly sensors that read over a broad area
the distance between the two discs has to be less than the resolution though.. i cant figure that part out
er.. i think
have you seen the sites where home made encoders are built?
yes they all suck
apparently mouse-bots have much looser resolution requirements than a CNC machine
no Imean the ones wehre they print the encoder disks on transparent paper, then from them all together to make the pattern wheels?
that's the idea
let me try and find a link
low resolution http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/200109/dpa.html
i'm thinking more like 256 lines
here's some stuff i hacked up: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/encoder-panelized.ps http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/encoder.pdf
fenn: didn't someone on here about 2yrs ago make upa pdf of 2500 ipm discs
yeah you're probably thinking of this http://fennetic.net/machines/?encoders
fenn: yeah, that's it
its a neat idea. i think jmkasunich was thinking of doing something similar with linear encoders
fenn: I wonder by the time you get done, would it just be worth it to buy one from US Digital
From a learning standpoint, sure, no problem.
Jymmmmmmm: why do you have so many m's on your name?
i want to make more than one, and at that point it becomes cost effective to make them
Jymmmmmmm is now known as Jymmmmmmmmmmmmm
fenn: I don't know what you mean =)
usdigital has to make them perfect, because they dont know what the end application is
Jymmmmmmmmmmmmm is now known as JymmmEMC
in cnc stuff the accuracy isnt that important, but the resolution is
i mean, you dont really need accuracy to .000001"
but the resolution is nice
you want to have repeatability
that's the resolution on my servos
fenn: but you never go that far, do you?
with .01" of backlash :)
that answered my question =)
fen oh, and OUCH
i'm going to fix it somehow
typically a servo has the same resolution of its paired encoder, and even then it gets tricky, cause the motor will attempt to hunt a fixed state
fenn those ball screws?
a fixed state?
no, this is some rolled acme threaded rod that i used to tap in some plastic
fixed state being no motion electricly balanced
are you talking about a local torque maximum (cogging)?
fenn: Next time I take apart my Z, I'll take some photos; they did a nice design to prevent backlash on it.
were its happy at an encoder position, not hunting back and foruth between one ab combo
fenn: He's taking about the servoce trying to lock on to.5000001 and bouncing back and fourth between .5000002 and .500000
This is neat... http://www.metacafe.com/watch/601280/make_instant_hot_ice/
yeah, a servo has a mechanical time constant, but usually you can get to within 1 count
whats the linux partion command I cant remember it
the comp wasnt picking up the disk at all
all better now, its an old drive out of an imac
i remember dealing with old mac filesystems.. 7 partitions and hidden files everywhere
yeah, im going to tell the wife im going to blow the data
that will give me the needed space to put stuff
or just buy another hdd =)
yeah how many cents per GB now?
DVD-R's are about $.08/GB
well unless you get them free
[21:36:18] <JymmmEMC> http://www.theginblog.com/2007/12/loyalty-in-the-streets-standing-by-your-best-friend-through-life-and-death/
I buy 100 DVD-R (brand name) for about $20-25
hold on now guys, im talking about data on computers that are more then 10 years old here
im trying to get it off before time gets me
and you dont have enough space to do the job properly, right?
marry x-mass to all..enjoy...>!!
I do, I have 6g i need to move and I have 20g available
500GB ext USB hdd for the win!
finally, i can run emc2 in debian lenny without using root account
what was the problem?
udev and memlock size
acemi: you updated the wiki.. right?
no I'lll update tomorrow
1 drive backed up so far
im just selectively gathering files
[22:50:03] <anonimasu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gzjw0svMA8&feature=related
yummy omg, would dim the lights in the neighborhood just to run it up
70kw is roughly ? hp?
definately would dim the lights
dev/sda1 has gone 826 days without being checked
hura ext3 journals
look at when they stall it
that's nice stuff
i wonder if the magnetic bearings do some kind of vibration damping
i bet my juice maker blade was photo etched
[23:09:27] <anonimasu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDueGO9JFEk&feature=related
I dont get it..
when they do a demo.
and they show off a boring part being facemilled, slowly
where's the _wow_ that'll help me produce..
sure, it had fairly nice chip to chip times but all their operations are really slow
for a demo showing off what advantage you give over competitors is important
Ill tell you right now, those types of machines, with that rotary pallet gizmo in the middle are sons of you know, to set up correctly
you mean pallet changer?
no the okuma has an index palet,
not realy a palet changer, but a table that doesnt move, and just rotates 180
maerry christmas all!
looking at videos
anyone get a cnc for christmas?
got some parts to make tomorrow
so im playing around in my head how to make them best
anonimasu what do u mean?
like the thing you do before you start blindly making parts ^^
(fixturing and the like)
<-- needs to make a emergency part cuz some #@$#@!#!@!$#@@ decided to use pot metal
anyone know off hand, how hard is pot metal? trying to figure out if 12L14 is going to be harder or softer then it or if I need to go up to 1018
yeah, a zinc alloy
any bar stock is > pot
you could even use t6061 aluminum
ds2: you mean that cast aluminium stuff
anonimasu: usually used in castings, seems to be common on toys like cars
that welds like crap
anonimasworse then that
12l14 welds like dead
the l is lead
it goes black
how much more electric does a rotary phase converter use then compared to a static?
don't need to weld, this is a square key as part of a door mechanism
trying to see if 12L14 would round off quickly(er) then the pot metal stuff they used
should be better
-t6 or something
or 7071 ;)
gamma-x i do not know, but I do know that rotary provides better powere
actually, 6061s is going to be a problem... don't have that on hand and steel suppliers are closed... I do have a bunch of 12L14's lying around
if its a rounding effect your wanting to avoid use a 41series,
arent thoose really soft?
I've only machined 6061..
yeah, 12L14 is softer then 1018, IIRC
4140 is normaly 26c off the bar
what would 6061 be?
problem is steel uses Rc and aluminum uses Rb
hard to compare :(
6061 is heat treated aluminum
gezr: know what Rc value is 1018?
what size key is it
6061 is another alloy
1018 is like 180 i think brinel
1/4" square key
anonimasu thats right
gezr: nothing to do with hardness either..
dont you have a tractor supply or hardware store nearby
1018 is just high carbon steel, 65ksi or so
if it was ANY other day, I would just get some keystock and start with that but as luck would have it, I have 3/16 and 5/16 key but no 1/4" :(
thats a standard size
steel is way different :)
jlmjvm_: don't think any place is open on christmas
and yes, i know thats not a hardness factor either
lowes has key stock I think
but your going to pay 30x for it
lowes/hd closes early
I hate and love aluminium
just trying to pause and think before I jump in... got the machines to make it
* anonimasu nods
its the tensil strength in most applications we worry about, till stuff gets sliding around on each other, then hardness comes into play
aluminium dosent wear well like that
even oild it loves to machine its self
key might not be a good description here... a square drive is probally more accurate
I guess steel is the way to go
ds2 make the piece out of steel, but make a fracture joint, so that its only slightly better then the pot piece your replacing
heh... I got 1018 and 12L14...got to decide which... 1018 sucks for turning and there are parts I need to turn
a lot of times, we over engineer replacement parts, and the next thing that breaks is everything but the part we made
gezr: should that matter for a hand operated thing?
unless it has a heavy load
and you use it very very often
I could be a grove on it with a parting tool but not sure if it matters
I over made the half nuts on my lathe
went from zamak(pot metal) to solid brass
the worse that can happen the steel rounds off, mushrooms, and traps the peice :/
it shouldnt mushroom from wear..
unless you subject it to compressing force..
wait, 1/4 square, you got a 1/4 piece of a2 lying around? a turning bits shank as an example?
whoa I just realized my rev one plans has a math error... I need to turn it so a 1/4" square can be inscribed, not circumscribed
hss square bit would be one heck of a strong replacment
uh... that might do some damage... like starting to broach out the square hole ;)
then when you needed to replace it, you go with the 5/16 stuff you have handy :)
12L14 it is
ah ha, how you going to machine it?
I wonder how hard it'd be to make gears.
rather a planetary gearbox :D ^^
start with a round, turn it down to size, then mill it square
trying to come up with a spindle speeder design
then mill a little protrusion on top so a handle can drive it
that can be done with a mill and a lathe
do you have a dividing head anonimasu?
gezr: rotary table
anonimasu: 4th axis?
its a holy pain the ass to broach gears but it can be done,
try hobbing with a tap?
its the big gear with the teeth on the inside thats going to be the big issue
and I dont have one
I guess you can broach it
but it'll never be great..
even edm, you have to write the code of the involute profiles
well, I were thinking sink edm
mill it out first
then edm the tooth profiles
they wouldnt be deep at all
okay, mill it out yes
well, turn on the lathe
then edm the tooth..
the final 2mm..
or 1 mm or so
but I dont have a edm.
then buy a gear shaper cutter mount it in your mill, use a steady feed, and rotate the blank using pressure to push down and manual rotation will spin the blank and the cutter
oh it's the outer ring..
that's a problem
the ring gear..
this spinning doesnt happen very fast mind you, and its a broaching operation at that
you know what im trying to say anon?
hm, no, :P
ever seen a gear shaper?
yes, at youtube
I could make a tool to do the hobbing motion.
okay, so you know the cutter is basically a woodruff key cutter, with an involute tooth profile, it doesnt cut as in cut, it broaches as it spins in relation to the gear being cut
I could grind the cutter on the mill
cnc the involute profile
and if you can cnc your 4th axis, you can get the ratios correct, and just have at it
that'd be lots of work.
or just cnc your 4th, and freewheel the spindle
I could index it manually though..
or with some hardware I have on the shelve at work
if you have a profile to keep the cutter ligned up, much like "gashing" a worm before you take a tap(hate this method, make an acme worm much easier) to it, so that it has something to self align with
that's really heard to do
well you have a cnc mill, you can almost get full profile teeth that way alone, then hit it once with a ground cutter
wouldnt work all too sell
I'd end up with very long overhang to do that
and that'd crap the profiles in the end..
as I want very tiny teeth
If you have a domain.... http://www.davidairey.co.uk/StaticPage.html
1018 is LOW carbon steel
anonimasu I know a place that cuts gears
shoot, I think I said high didnt I?
I'd bet you they are are pretty expensive
I dont know, I probably pissed them off good too
(only looking at different options for making gearing)
planetary gearboxes are nice in that you get all force in one line..
they had a turet that was jacked up, I tried to fix it, ended up sending it off, they got it back, I put it back on, had it working 3 days later, it blew up again
I told them I coudlnt help them
on of the many reasons why I had to quit my job
buy a few random sizes of o1,w1, and A2 drill rod - handy stuff to have around when you need it.
I have some HSS blanks somewhere
1026 is high or low carbon?
8620 and case harden makes good gears
HSS is hard
1117 as well dave
though it turns fairly nicely with nice tooling
1026 boarders on med carbon
ssure easy to machine and then harden
hehe I had to turn down some mill for a special uperation
good night all
man, I havent workedwith good metal in soo long
latest Digital Machining had an article on cutting gears.
I think gearmaking is probably too hard to do for me(do really nice ones)
straight gears are not too hard
I had a company owner decide I was his property, so I left that one, and then another who I didnt feel comfortable working for, then this last gig, wow
well you can lap them in. :-)
once you lap a gear, they will continue to lap themself till they are round
1026 will case harden real nice though
Well Moore got away with it and made nice stuff
yeah, you can do it for sure, I just cant see how you get the goop out once your done
got a link?
I just fired up a system I loaded a while ago and have forgotten how to check version ...
now to go see what I have and then ask more questions
Gamma-X: wake up.
* anonimasu sighs
Ah, good numbers .... 2.6.12 magma for Ubuntu and 18.104.22.168 for emc2. The question is should I upgrade or reload off a new CD?
dave_1: if you are using Ubuntu Breezy, then it may be easiest to reinstall from the emc 2.2 live cd (with ubuntu dapper). If you're already using ubuntu dapper, upgrading to emc 2.2 is pretty easy and doesn't involve upgrading many packages.
anyone have a link to downlaod mastercam 9 student addition?
its a trial version
[23:58:31] <jepler> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Breezy_Upgrading
(upgrade from Ubuntu Breezy to Ubuntu Dapper) http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.2
(upgrading from 2.0 or 2.1 on Ubuntu Dapper)
Gamma-X: don't ask where to illegally obtain software.
its a trial version lol
clearly I can't read
perhaps you should try their website
cant find 9
they don't want people using the older versions