:) just research and make up your own mind
The_B is now known as The_Ball
I think each had it's merits, but... cool hand luke
yeah, just sad to see that it finally came to that
so, do we see les watts on here these days?
hey, robin, thought you might be sleeping
and yes, thats the one
long time no hear/type/talk whatever
are you well?
well, I went to look for ngc.vim and it was still on your site :)
liek I ever manage to tidy up?
I went to work for a used machiner dealer doing repair work on machines, to fix them up, then to travel to customers facilites to work on their equipment, warnty and contract, till I got tired of being under paid
so I decided i had all I could stand, getting ready to go back to college this spring
if you can live on no money :0
so maybe ill accually get to help out on emc code for once
yeah ill be okay
I see that emc has made leaps and bounds lately too, thats good
accually has look ahead now too?
I think cradek and alex tweaked all that out but I cant remember
cradek rewrote the trajectory planner..
[01:56:56] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TrajectoryControl
also one of cradeks projects.. http://youtube.com/watch?v=7WCrqqoZkPg
[01:58:15] <skunkworks> http://youtube.com/watch?v=0jQy-zc5P6w
i had seen the first hadn't seen the second very nice
is the i guess b axix on that machine stable?
i feel your pain...
robin you gone again?
where is home BATMAN...
dmess: hows the water level?
sweet... what ways that about 15 off horizontal??
still rising... not breeched.. thk GOD
about 9 inches NOW... lookes to maybe receding.....
how'd you get flooded?
creek in the back yard...
creek's are great... until they flood your house.
[03:32:05] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/PICT0099.JPG
first part cut on my 5-axis desktop mill
the chamfering was done by tipping the end mill to 45 degrees
the hole itself was straight up?
I want to see the version where the hole is drilled at a 30 degree angle
heck I'd like to see that too
write the gcode and I'll run it!
damn, look at the time, gotta go!
actually, if the face that is being chamfered is perpendicular to the hole, is it that nasty?
(I realise that an angled hole in a flat part requires an ellipse to chamfer it
clamp the board in the vise vertically
mill a flat surface tilted 30 degrees (tilt B, command U and V moves)
oh, to make the hole you'd need UV arcs - those don't exist do they?
no, you'd have to approximate it
lots of G1s you mean?
hmm, that takes the fun out of it
for your test part, was the hole at least off-center on the rotary table?
so during the chamfer, B and Z were constant, X, Y, and C were moving
yes both holes were made by one program
chamfering an angled hole would move all five joints at once
yes that would be cool. I'll have to do it.
I just realised that even UV arcs wouldn't be enough
cause once you tilt the tool to do the chamfer, the hole is no longer parallel to the spindle
that's a brain twister
the 5 axis piece-de-resistance would be something like the top half of a dodecahedron sticking up out of the raw block, with a chamfered hole in each face
all done with the same tool
or just a nice 3 axis wigglle......
top of a dodech is 3 axisable... bottom from the same set up is a stretch,... even for me... i cN MAKE THE CODE... BUT the setup is a little off
with three axis, you'd need to use a ball end mill, and you'd wind up with grooves and such
JMK.... i've done that for DMG
with five axis, you can make the tool perpendicular to the face and mill it with wide passes using a square end tool
and heidenhien..makes it easy...
or siemens... 840d.. sweet
we intepolated a tooling ball... in 5 xis on an 840d.... under a tenth on the indidator.... machine was swinwiging....
was a DMG machine... deckel-maho-gildemieister...
jmkasunich: I understand lots of 5 axis code is done with short lines and inverse time feed. I think you hit on why
inverse time is a specislty of mine...
better still would be a tapped hole in each face... but that's for another day
10 lines of code on a heidy or a siemens... honest.. NOT slaggin''''' im one of us
cradek: that would be impressive
if i could show you fellas a shot of a good friends machine... that isnt an issue
pick an angle... mill a plane drill tap.. 3 minutes..max
dmess: emc can do it too - but not on my machine.
i KNOW emc could do it.. but WHO has the machine to try...
he's offered me that machine.. to play with and set to work...
its huge..... 5 meters x axis
whats a good brand vfd? at a fair price.
i need a 5hp.
well i have a 3hp
I don't think you can find a single phase input 5hp vfd
dmess, I didn't remember what you said... how's it going?
cradek i can live with a 3 hp
A 5HP drive with three phase input will probably work OK on single phase if you only load it to 3 HP
what about a 3 hp 2 3 hp?
for the AD drives it doesn't say you can drive them that way once you get over the 3hp model (but I know squat about how they work)
cradek nice machine by the way
do you get good stability out of the rotating axis?
it's about as solid as the rest of the machine I think
it has never been a good machine for cutting metal.
yeah, I used it for metal only when I really needed to...
I guess it was OK for aluminum. had to be careful though.
Im sorry I havent been good to the project over the years
everyone does what he can, and no more
yeah i guess thats true
I dont even have a box running it lately
in fact last time I was playing really hard, paulc was still in here, and the tc stuff was just fixed
must have been a couple years then
so much has happened since then!
yeah, I seem to come and go every 2 or so years
I get frustrated and give up
I read the dev and norm emails still
hell, I remember when you first started comming in here:(
[05:23:54] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/surplus_spindle.pdf
so you have or have not drilled at an angle like your video example shows?
fenn: you around?
gezr: only air. I've only actually cut the one program shown in the photo
but the air cuts nicely
hahahah, it always does
don't need coolant
and you don't get chips in your shoes
jmksunich thats an interesting spindle design
yes it's easy to vacuum up the air chips
gezr: actually, its a spindle that I got for $10 ;-)
I need to figure out how to hold tooling and make a housing
jmkasunich: do you know what's wrong with them? just worn a bit?
varies - some are tagged
what taper is that?
a few have hairline cracks around the taper (there are coolant passages that I didn't draw)
some have sticky drawbars or other things that need tweaked
as far as I can tell, this was the "needs rebuilt" bin of a shop that went out of business or something
this is full size stuff then eh?
decent size, yes
the taper is 24mm (bout 0.950") at the big end
the spindle is close to a foot long overall
bearing ODs are 68mm and 62mm
the shaft at the top is 28mm - I can get QD bushings for that to mount a pulley
it looks like the drawing is missing the inner lock for the hsk though
it is - I didn't bother drawing that stuff cause I'm not gonna use it
are you familiar with tormach tooling system?
go with a standard draw bar then?
is it like the oh gosh, its been a while, its quick change though right?
with like a side screw that pulls everything together? balanced packages?
[05:30:38] <jmkasunich> http://www.tormach.com/Product_TTS.html
3/4" straight shank, goes in an R8 or Morse collet, and has a flange that bears on the spindle nose
so when the collet draws it up you get flange contact for repeatable Z
I'm hoping I can make a collet that fits in the taper and is drawn up the the existing drawbar (thats an M6 thread on the end)
that should be farly simple
the drawbar is too long - I'd have to shorten the tormach shanks
and that reduced diameter section just above the taper will make for a very shallow and weirdly shaped (possibly weak) collet
I'd like to bore that section out, but its hardened
ditto for shortening the drawbar and re-threading it
case hardned I bet
the drawbar is going to be solid
well, I bought two of them, and one has the tiny cracks, so I can give it a try
jmkasunich: could you get a grinder in there, like a dremel?
yes, but it would take ages
that is 17mm, I'd want to bring it out to 22mm or so
and its 12mm long
uh, 0.0002 per pass?
ahhhh units clash!
it could be hard turned
if it's case hardened you could bore it once it gets easy
even hardened 41series steel is relatively easy to turn
gezr: first I gotta get or make a steady rest
the only part that fits inside my lathe spindle is the 28mm part at the back
what lathe is it ?
so I'd have to support it by the front beearings
my shoptask 3-in-1 :-(
I dont have anything that would fit that
I also have access to a South Bend 13" at work
but it doesn't have a steady either
thats a bit larger
I should kiss my last bosses ass a bit more, but that repair junk was not making me happy at all
heh, I was just trying to do math for that cut and going "huh?", cause 22-17 = 3
somehow the calculator got into octal mode
I have a calculator question for a ti89 if any of you have one
ok, 0.098" to remove, if I grind it with a dremel at 0.0002 per pass, thats only 492 passes
not counting wheel wear and dressing
I'd still need the steady
whatabout a hydraulic hsk endmill holder?
HSK tooling is WAY out of my league
$300 for an endmill holder, $600 for a collet holder
and that needs all the little bits to be good as well
this particular one was in the rebuild pile because one of the six internal collet fingers is bent
I don't care if I'm gonna use some other (cheaper) tooling system
492 passes is sounding almost fun about now
I'm very tempted to build a steady that clamps onto the dovetail bed of my machine
and make it fit the OD of the big bearings
chuck up the tail end of the spindle, and support the front in the bearings
use carbide and see what happens
like make an outer race block, then use the tail stock to hold the spindle while you insert shims and then clamp the whole thing down?
with the steady, I could also use a grinder to touch up the taper and face, since it will be running in its own bearings - guaranteed concentric
something like that
thats not a bad idea
I was actually thinking of using a between centers boring bar to bore the bearing seat
something to make sure the bearing seat is dead nuts centered
what would you make the bearing seat out of?
for the steady? some big old chunk of steel
actually, probably two chunks
mill flat faces, dowel and screw them together, with a sheet of paper between, then bore
that way I can open it up, insert spindle, and clamp down on the bearings
for the actual spindle housing, I would turn and bore it out of a piece of 3.5" OD by 5/8" wall DOM (2.25" ID) about 6-1/2 inches long
that wall is thick enough to allow for the 68mm and 62mm bearing bores, and a ring of screws around the end to bolt a retaining plate down over the tool end bearings
OD would wind up something like 3-3/8
I'm gonna draw up what I have in mind over the next week or so
too many irons in the fire though
anyone running 2.6.20 by chance?
hey an bye
SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
what uop all
I think everybody's on christmas break...
* archivist at work doin nuthin
same here, actually
anyone know if a 5hp vfd with single phase input to 3 phase output is a vailable? no luck finding it.
5HP is about 16A 230V or 31A 110V if the vfd is 100% efficient (and it's unlikely to be) -- I think there's a reason you are only finding 3phase for 5HP motors.
you're not expecting 110 in are you?
I'd call automation direct and ask if the 5hp model can be run on single phase 240
their web site doesn't say it can, but jmk said it might work
the 5HP is specifically listed as 230v, 3ph only -- the 3HP one says 1/3ph
at best you'd be operating it in a way that would void the warranty
Gamma, why do you want a 5hp vfd for a 3hp motor
Gamma-X: some drives may have single phase protection that will shut them down if you try to run them on single phase input, but I doubt they put that in small drives
(for me, anything under 10-20HP is small)
the main issue with singlephasing is that there is more current through the input diodes, and LOTs more ripple current through the filter capacitors - with single phase, when the line voltage goes to zero, the drive is running totally on stored cap energy - with three phase there is always incoming power from one phase or another
the drives that are listed as 1/3 ph have larger caps and input diodes to compensate for taht
if you oversize the drive, that can also compensate
(but yes, it will most likely void the warranty)
jmkasunich: are you the one that did the xmas art g file?
if he has a 3hp motor and 1ph power, seems to me like he should use the 3hp drive with 1ph input rating
cradek: I would agree
ok can't remember who gave it to me
cradek: I also agree
good we can move on then :-)
anyone use a image to dxf converter?
the wind finally died down
here too.. but not before blowing down a bunch of trees
did your wall hold?
cradek, nice image of the wood part with 5-axis
how fast can you run your mill?
got a video of it?
the same speed as the previous video?
yes something like that
that's really slow
it will be a bit better when I get joint constraints working. I won't have to be so conservative
joint contstraints, would that be limits that control each joints' maximum speed in contrast to the ini file which I assume only controls each axis' maximum speed?
ah so as it is now you can get commanded joint speeds that are very high or even inf. for certain positions
inf would mean a bad machine configuration where you try to move through a singularity of some kind
but yes the joint speed can add up, especially when moving several axes that each contribute
[17:59:39] <lerneaen_hydra> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPGsMDM_UPU&mode=related&search=
<-- I assume that setup can have a commanded roational axis speed of inf when passing through the center of rotation
I'm not sure I would call it a bad machine design though
yes R-theta is a good example of trouble
as long as the software is capable of controlling both axis and joint velocity so they're within limits I don't see any problem
btw, how did you limit the backlash in the index rotary table that you use as your C axis? (I take it that rotary A has its center of rotation along the X axis and so on)
the rotaries are B,C. they both have a bit of backlash.
have you reduced the backlash in them at all? all the rotary index tables I've seen have backlash in excess of 1/4 turn
* lerneaen_hydra is to lazy to figure out how many mRad that is
a project for max5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsKMQG3brw4&feature=related
toshiba uses that syteme on their large VTL's... and the fanuc 21 it lights up like a xmas tree when you try to pass it thru center...
just a few more days and I get to haul things back up into the attic
and all small rotary tables unless home made can have quite a bit of backlash, they typicaly have a quick production run and the accuracy of them is limited, taig, sheerline are models im talking about
even some large/better tables have some backlash
home gear cutting isnt easy to do either, especially a good worm/screw combo,
heh thats my interset
seems to me worm gears are the easiest to do
they are, but its getting the matchup correctly between the cut worm, and the pre machined wheel without using a burnishing method
cut the hob on the same piece as the worm and just flip it around once the teeth have been cut
Ive had problems with the error between worm and wheel
and normally we as home machinist use far too small a worm to have an effective combo
the best here is 72 to 1
72 to 1 what?
worm to wheel ratio
worm to wheel in the dividing head
archivist what was your worms od?
i think i'd use a small "ineffective" worm and add a brake to supply the brute force
dunno its in a machine that works and is in spec
any of you gearheads used a hypocycloidal gear set before?
gezr, I had some fun with an angle dekkor finding the best one here to make dividing plates with
optical erm tries to think of the other names..
mirror on the gear and a sight sending light to mirror
so were talking minute movements
found some enormous errors though
do you set it with a sine bar or angle plates or what?
nearly a degree on some worms
no site can see a line therefore sees angle head has moved
and as the error is bunched at worm rate it a sawtooth ish form high count gear can be very wrong
what do you use as a reference to get the "true" angle?
its relative, looking for peak to peak error
there is no true angle
we found the problem here when a few got sent back!
ordinary clock quality was not enough
I hear that for slow ADC it improves noise rejection to acquire data at 60Hz (US AC power frequency). If I'm not actually monitoring the AC power frequency (with a zero-crossing detector or whatever), would it still be good to sample at a synthesized frequency that "should be" around 60Hz instead?
[20:20:22] <jepler> http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/01198525592
jepler: it depends on the nature of the A/D
if its an integrating A/D (common in DMMs, precise but slow - not likely what you have on your board) then having the integration period a multiple of 1/line freq helps reject line noise
but if its a sampling type, it makes little difference
I won't worry about it
(that page shows the reason I'm asking; I don't know what specific kind of ADC is in there, but I am sure it's optimized for cost and size, not precision)
I read that page but didn't follow thru to the board info
it's an AVR microcontroller with 6 channels of ADC built in (in the processor package)
nice, I use the same one myself :)
"it takes about 100uS to read an analog input"
= not an integrating converter
according to the datasheet it takes 13-260µS, using some type of iterative comparator
merry christmas Jymmmmmmm
[20:28:23] <lerneaen_hydra> http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc2545.pdf
merry Christmas.. to all and to all a better 2008
I know I'm trying for that come Dec 26th for sure
jepler: you can take multiple samples and average them, see http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc8003.pdf
it actually has one adc and an analog mux
happy holidays to all
jepler: what does the bitwise or do on this line? uint16_t v = analogRead(i) | (i << 10);
ugh nevermind. i suppose i should read the documentation first :)
you can't pause a program, give an MDI command, and then resume it, can you?
fanuc's you could
it all depended onthe machine though
you guys all runing the unbuto software I guess?
well, either live or installed
between that and jogging while the program is paused... (it gets asked a few times)
my emc box/dev box/gateway box, hasnt been inservice for half a year, and because of that and the fact I didnt put some important packages on it, I have to plop a new drive in, boot up, and do some magic file manupliation, was thinking I should just install unbuto on it
is what ide like to have
whats on the gatway
it was just the box i used for lots of stuff
my typical linux installs, are debian sid
ubuntu is cool emc 2.2 is great
pound it on
* jmkasunich is liking this O-word looping stuff
jmkasunich: what are you looping?
I needed to bore a timing belt pulley out from 1/4" to 1/2"
about an inch deep
wrote a loop to do all the roughing passes
cool I do that with my anilam
sorry to bring up paul.c again ,but the BDI was great / IMO EMC 2 is leap's above and I can't figure out the beefs he has with EMC2
ALS: nobody else either :)
loops in g-code is the most useful thing ever
I rely on them heavily on the heidenhain
just curious he helped me with my bdi years back and have nothing but respect for him.
postscript function arguments are hard to wrap your head around :\
they get passed in on "the stack" which every subsequent statement modifies
maybe i should redo this in cairo
would Jon Elson happen to be on the channel?
from the name list, it doesnt look like it.
he doesn't often come in here
he was here a day or two ago, but before that it was months
would you happen to know, if I want to run four axes on the USC, do I have to use P8? :-)
(P8 is a connector on the USC)
owhite: you check his web site for info?
yep, I did.
its got wiring diagrams for his old configuration -- there's .ini files and hal files for the four axes configuration, but not the wiring diagram.
says that axis 0, 1, 2, 3 are all on connector P2. Connector P8 is apparently for logic-level outputs; I think that this means they can only be updated at the slow rate of the emc "servo thread", and are not suitable for generating high speed step waveforms.
jepler. right. but what confused me is what that page reported for the encoders on p4.
it lists several unused pins, and I was wondering if they were genuinely unused, or I could use them for connecting to encoder for axis A.
owhite: The same document says that P3 has A, B, Z inputs for axis 0, 1, 2, 3
what I don't see is limit/home switch inputs for a 4th axis -- since that's all done by HAL configuration I think you're actually free to use the pins in any way you like
e.g., linksp Xminlim <= ppmc.0.din.01.in
but you have to understand, I'm just guessing from what I read on that page .. I have no experience with usc
I was thinking of digging into the hal component to see if it documents where the ppmc.0.dim.01.in corresponds to.
any suggestions where that might be in the code?
bad day for shopping -- mesa electronics arent answering their phone :-)
the source code isn't too informative -- search down to "static void read_digins" in http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/hal/drivers/hal_ppmc.c?rev=1.52
but all you find is that they're numbered 0..15
but I would assume that matches up with the items labeled "bit 0 input" through "bit 15 input" in the pins.html page
jepler: hey thanks for digging that up.
looks good but I'll confirm with Jon by email.
Merry Chrismas All
what would u guys do to clean a completely cover in oil wood chips, metal chips, and coolant machine lol.?
steam cleaner / pressure washer + degreaser
or... just toss on some solvent and gently wipe away and try not to get it where you want the grease to be
what kind of solvent would u use?
i started usin citrus cleaner
but theres so many chips on it my hands are cut up lol
Got Gloves - dishwashing ones
use a chip brush, not your fingers =)
solvent could be gasoline, kerosen, even WD-40 if you must, just about anything to break up the grease
i could prolly use a magnet to get the metal chips....
spray solvent on it and suck it all up with a shop vac? sound acceptable?
solvent and electric motor dont usually go so well =)
citrus cleaner... alot of it lol
electric motor = sparks, solvent fumes ignite from sparks, Got marshmellows?
let the cirtrus clena soak for a while.
$0.99 chip/paint brush does pretty good
what about the circutry in the control box?
Um, dont' degrease it =)
Well, I use denatured alcohol on electronic circuitry
just spray it on?
not rubbing/household alcohol
i realyt dont wanna take all the boards out.
is it that bad that you need to?
is it that bad that you need to clean the pcb;s?
dust and such
some shavings in the lower area of the box
can of air, and if needed can of contact cleaner
og course power completely disconnected.
yeah yeah. i havnt even check the power box on it to see how bad it is
but hey i only payed 2 grand for a ycm-18! lol
[23:46:15] <Gamma-X> http://cgi.ebay.com/VERY-CLEAN-PROTOTRAK-SUPERMAX-YCM-40-CNC-VERTICAL-MILL_W0QQitemZ150196827733QQihZ005QQcategoryZ12584QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
shop vac as much as you can first, then go in with solvents/liquids as needed.
used cnc machines are so cheap these days
twas the night before Christmas and all though the house not a creature was stirring not even a mouse... When all of a sudden with a great blast of air out popped Gamma-X from behind his mill all covered in soot and old chips. He gave out a laugh and smiled at his clean machine...
BigJohnT I LOVE U!
Ur my home boy.
you finally read it
ohhh that lol i was eatin dinner
the xmas story
i didnt take pics yet