#emc | Logs for 2007-12-20

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[00:07:20] <Gamma-X> i need a 3 phase converter fuck
[00:07:24] <Gamma-X> fudge*
[00:07:25] <Gamma-X> sorry
[00:33:53] <fenn> why dont you make one
[01:05:47] <Gamma-X> fenn uhhh how would i do that?
[01:05:49] <Gamma-X> lol
[01:06:33] <archivist> motor-alternator is one method
[01:06:59] <Gamma-X> well what the cheapest and most cost effective with electroic/
[01:07:25] <Gamma-X> i think im gunna retro fit my current controller with larger eeproms, anyone know where to get 2708 1k eeproms/
[01:10:58] <archivist> what country are you
[01:11:44] <Gamma-X> usa
[01:12:05] <archivist> ah ok I have a few (dozen)
[01:12:39] <Gamma-X> realy?
[01:13:02] <Gamma-X> what would u like for them. im basicluy lookin to upgrade my controllers memory.
[01:13:09] <Gamma-X> just make it larger
[01:13:50] <skunkworks> what controller is this?
[01:14:13] <Gamma-X> anilam crusader II
[01:14:19] <Gamma-X> http://youtube.com/watch?v=dj-stLJa2n0
[01:14:45] <Gamma-X> looks as this guy did sumtin wierd, in the end it says larger 2708 eeproms but in the video it says he has a computer for storage.....
[01:16:22] <Gamma-X> any thoughs?
[01:16:25] <Gamma-X> thoughts*
[01:18:59] <toastydeath> why is that weird?
[01:20:02] <Gamma-X> not wierd but i want to do this somehow lol
[01:20:30] <toastydeath> dnc
[01:20:35] <toastydeath> is what that's called
[01:21:20] <Gamma-X> whats that stand for?
[01:21:33] <toastydeath> direct numeric control
[01:21:46] <toastydeath> the control reads the commands off the serial port
[01:21:51] <toastydeath> and the pc just feeds it in
[01:22:23] <Gamma-X> basicly.... a drip feed?
[01:22:27] <toastydeath> yep
[01:22:32] <Gamma-X> or is it just an upload of all info?
[01:22:36] <Gamma-X> at one shot
[01:22:41] <toastydeath> no, it's a drip feed
[01:23:18] <toastydeath> originally used when the control didn't have enough memory to store massive 3d toolpath programs
[01:23:54] <Gamma-X> YAY!
[01:24:00] <Gamma-X> YAYAYAYAY!
[01:24:14] <Gamma-X> that was the only reason i was going to switch to emc was because of that lol
[01:24:51] <toastydeath> you have to look up in the manual for your control how to do it and what it wants
[01:25:14] <Gamma-X> i honestly dont think i can.
[01:25:35] <toastydeath> uh. okay.
[01:31:49] <Gamma-X> toastydeath actually i think i found it. i got a free dnc program. i got a question when using ur cam software should I output my info to the "crusader" and then send that file to the dnc program? or just send generic g code to the dnc program?
[01:38:52] <toastydeath> what
[01:39:14] <toastydeath> the idea is to set the control into DNC mode, where it just sits and waits
[01:39:20] <toastydeath> all g-code is on the pc
[01:41:11] <Gamma-X> and the dnc program that drip feeds it will get what kind of file? a .nc?
[01:41:19] <toastydeath> yes
[01:41:29] <toastydeath> it gets the g-code
[01:42:18] <toastydeath> if you send the code to the control at any point, you are doing something wrong - the control should never see the code until you hit cycle start
[01:44:25] <toastydeath> also why don't you just remove the control and install emc
[01:44:28] <Gamma-X> ok
[01:44:36] <Gamma-X> i just found wireless dnc! I like!
[01:44:45] <toastydeath> if you're using CAM you shouldn't care about the canned cycles EMC doesn't support
[01:45:39] <Gamma-X> i wont be usin emc
[01:48:31] <toastydeath> i mean what's the advantage
[01:48:41] <Gamma-X> of dmc?
[01:48:43] <toastydeath> no
[01:48:48] <toastydeath> of keeping your ollllllld control
[01:49:03] <Gamma-X> not spending any more money for the time being. and everything working properly
[01:49:07] <toastydeath> oh
[01:51:15] <Gamma-X> lol its not that bad....
[01:51:18] <Gamma-X> aslong as i get dnc.
[03:07:10] <cradek> Gamma-X: the contouring performance and motion smoothness may still be disappointing
[03:07:31] <cradek> my BOSS will run about 4 lines of gcode a second, max
[03:08:10] <cradek> so on short moves you get wild jerking and there's nothing you can do about it
[03:14:28] <SWPadnos> cradek, do you drip-feed or run code on the control?
[03:14:40] <cradek> I have not bothered to figure out drip feeding
[03:14:43] <SWPadnos> ok
[03:14:50] <SWPadnos> I wonder if it would make it even worse
[03:14:53] <cradek> that is on the "other" serial port
[03:15:02] <cradek> I suppose it could.
[03:15:21] <SWPadnos> the only BP CNC I've used was using drip-feed, and I think we never got above 19200 or maybe 38400 baud
[03:15:43] <SWPadnos> 19.2k probably (was a long run on 6-conductor silver satin cable)
[03:16:14] <cradek> pretty sure my control does 9600 max
[03:16:17] <SWPadnos> hmmm, now I'm not sure if we just downloaded the programs or actually used it as a drip-feed. it was about 12 years ago
[03:16:23] <cradek> for 100 feet (hahaha) of gcode that's fast enough to upload
[03:16:25] <SWPadnos> could have been that too :)
[03:16:29] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:22:35] <fenn> whats all this about feet of gcode?
[03:22:43] <SWPadnos> paper tape, dude
[03:25:19] <cradek> 10cpi
[03:25:27] <cradek> 12 kBytes = 100 feet
[03:25:32] <cradek> 120
[03:26:52] <dmess> the bad old days...; (
[03:27:49] <dmess> punch in reverse and put in a big garbage pail.. then run from there... our spooler was fubar
[03:34:44] <Gamma-X> anyone know where i can download a program that will emulate an rs232 for bluetooth? or wifi
[03:35:22] <cradek> your question makes no sense...
[03:35:34] <Gamma-X> yeah it does lol
[03:35:54] <Gamma-X> well
[03:35:58] <Gamma-X> a serial connection?
[03:36:12] <SWPadnos> I don't know of any bluetooth-connected simple serial ports
[03:36:13] <cradek> you can get usb serial ports
[03:36:20] <SWPadnos> there are ethernet-connected serial ports though
[03:37:00] <Gamma-X> so i mean
[03:37:15] <Gamma-X> im puttin a wireless serial connection onto my cnc
[03:37:28] <SWPadnos> you're best off with a serial short-haul RF modem
[03:37:36] <Gamma-X> now i need a serial port emulator that will tell that wich pins are what.
[03:37:37] <cradek> you're best off with a serial CABLE
[03:37:50] <SWPadnos> well, that's true, a cable is much better than any wireless apparati
[03:37:55] <Gamma-X> cradek i dont care what im best off with
[03:37:56] <SWPadnos> especially around HEAVY MACHINERY!!!
[03:37:58] <cradek> it's a very inexpensive device that hooks two serial ports together
[03:38:15] <cradek> :-)
[03:38:18] <Gamma-X> lol
[03:38:42] <Gamma-X> i guess no one knows what a emulator is lol
[03:38:55] <SWPadnos> I think a few of us do, but I'm not sure you're one of them ;)
[03:39:07] <cradek> haha
[03:39:18] <fenn> i can emulate knowing what you're talking about
[03:40:00] <Gamma-X> hahahaha
[03:40:02] <Gamma-X> no
[03:40:16] <cradek> in all seriousness, I've never heard of what you're asking for
[03:40:17] <Gamma-X> lol im doin the wireless but i need sumtin to emulate the pin matchup.
[03:40:23] <cradek> but, I have used a usb connected serial port
[03:40:48] <Gamma-X> i can prolly just open the adapter and change wires.
[03:41:04] <SWPadnos> um - you have three things to make work: 1) the serial connection to the CNC. there is nothing you can easily do to change that interface
[03:41:20] <cradek> yeah I may still not understand the question
[03:41:30] <SWPadnos> 2) the radio link to another location. there are several ways of doing this, some of which actually use a serial port on one side
[03:42:00] <SWPadnos> 3) the connection to the PC - with a short-haul modem, this will probably also be a serial connection, though there are other options (such as USB and ethernet)
[03:42:15] <SWPadnos> but it all depends on what the radio link is
[03:42:26] <Gamma-X> this is how
[03:42:35] <cradek> if you're drip feeding, you have no way of verifying the program before the machine moves
[03:42:45] <cradek> there is no checksumming or anything like that
[03:42:47] <Gamma-X> serial to bluetooth adapter.
[03:42:58] <cradek> using radio seems foolish to me
[03:43:09] <Gamma-X> http://www.seektron.eu/images/EP132B%20Adaptor%20RS232%20Bluetooth%20Hundure.jpg
[03:43:12] <SWPadnos> ah, ok. I see now that there are serial bluetooth adapters. cool :)
[03:43:38] <SWPadnos> how far are you planning on running this radio connection?
[03:43:55] <Gamma-X> now what i want is a emulator to emulate an rs232 connection into my bluetooth adapter I have, one that I can pick and choose the pin layout.
[03:44:01] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos not long
[03:44:08] <fenn> what's the range of bluetooth in a room full of chunks of metal?
[03:44:09] <Gamma-X> 25 ft
[03:44:31] <SWPadnos> ok, you need an RS232 breakout box, not an emulator
[03:44:36] <Gamma-X> effective range is 32 ft
[03:44:37] <cradek> the pin layout question makes no sense
[03:44:51] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos im going to be using bluetooth from my computer
[03:45:01] <cradek> there are two ways to wire a serial port. you need one of each for them to plug together
[03:45:02] <Gamma-X> cradek well its a modified rs232 connection
[03:45:17] <Gamma-X> for my controller
[03:45:21] <SWPadnos> if I understand you correctly, you're looking for an adapter so you can rearrange the serial wires
[03:45:26] <fenn> its a... RS-485 connection? :)
[03:45:37] <SWPadnos> no, it's 9-pin serial, probably
[03:45:45] <SWPadnos> here's one: http://www.ipenabled.com/bluetooth-rs232.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=North+America&utm_term=serial+bluetooth&gclid=CLWLuoL5tZACFQ6hQwodJl3XLQ
[03:45:47] <cradek> could be either/both
[03:45:58] <cradek> but you cannot pick pinouts with any kind of software
[03:46:12] <Gamma-X> cradek yeah u can
[03:46:15] <Gamma-X> that why u use an emulator
[03:46:22] <fenn> actually, i bet emc can do it (but that's beside the point)
[03:46:29] <cradek> um, nope
[03:46:51] <Gamma-X> im gunna use my crusader 2 for the time being thats why
[03:46:51] <SWPadnos> I'm with cradek, there is no way to change pinouts for serial ports in software
[03:47:00] <Gamma-X> yeah there is! lol hahaha
[03:47:06] <Gamma-X> an emulator emulates a port
[03:47:12] <SWPadnos> none whatsoever, on any type of conmputer or microcontroller I've ever seen
[03:47:12] <Gamma-X> a comm port.
[03:47:13] <fenn> er, not on the serial port i mean, with some goofy parport to serial adapter
[03:47:15] <tomp2> pin 3 is pin 3 and only has one function in the rs232 spec
[03:47:20] <cradek> I hope you get it working Gamma-X. We obviously don't have the answers here.
[03:47:32] <Gamma-X> im not tryin to argue or anything lol
[03:47:37] <Gamma-X> didnt mean it to sound like that
[03:47:48] <Gamma-X> tomp2 i have to use a modifed cable.
[03:47:50] <SWPadnos> to be honest, I think you're confused. but you probably agree that I'm confused
[03:47:58] <Gamma-X> correct lol
[03:48:01] <fenn> i suggest buying a 25ft serial cable and then when it works you won't want to change it
[03:48:12] <Gamma-X> my crusader II uses a modifed rs232 cable.
[03:48:19] <fenn> then modify the cable
[03:48:27] <cradek> yes you have to make the proper cable then.
[03:48:31] <cradek> you cannot do this with software.
[03:48:31] <Gamma-X> differant pin layout. like a bridge and a differant wire in one spot
[03:48:45] <Gamma-X> ugghghhhh
[03:48:46] <Gamma-X> lol
[03:48:52] <fenn> why is the cable different btw?
[03:49:01] <SWPadnos> not that I've been designing and programming computers and microcontroller-based products, several of which have used RS232 and/or radios, for the last 20 years, but I think I know what I'm talking about
[03:49:05] <cradek> fenn: so anilam can sell you the cable
[03:49:13] <fenn> ah, of course
[03:49:19] <cradek> fenn: the bridgeport has a very bizarre cable too
[03:49:33] <cradek> (to be fair, the connector is probably oilproof)
[03:49:36] <SWPadnos> and unless there's some very recent serial controller chip that allows you to reprogram its pin functions, this is not a software problem
[03:49:59] <SWPadnos> unless you want to use a parport or other digital I/O (as fenn suggested) and do a software bit-banged cnonection
[03:50:08] <cradek> ... which you don't
[03:50:17] <fenn> data rate will be horribly slow, even slower than normal
[03:50:35] <SWPadnos> right
[03:50:56] <fenn> ~10kbaud
[03:50:56] <cradek> you can't generate rs232 voltages with a parport anyway. this is just confusing the issue.
[03:51:01] <SWPadnos> ther could certainly be new hardware I've never heard of, so I won't say it's impossible (in fact, it would be possible with an FPGA)
[03:51:06] <SWPadnos> sure
[03:51:17] <SWPadnos> separate can of worms :)
[03:51:34] <fenn> oh, forgot about the differential aspect
[03:51:35] <Gamma-X> u guys are lookin way too indepth on this one lol
[03:51:41] <tomp2> maybe you mean connecting dts to dtr and rx to tx ? like that? i do that with a soldering gun, not with software like crosstalk or hyperterm or any unix comm either.
[03:51:54] <SWPadnos> in any case, Gamma-X - exactly which connection is the problem then? it would seem to be the connection between the bluetooth serial dongle and the Anilam, right?
[03:53:07] <Gamma-X> the emulator will make my computer think that the bluetooth device in my computer is actually a serial port, the serial port puts out differant data on its pins. bluetooth is only a data transfer device. not a hardwired item.
[03:53:27] <SWPadnos> ah - you're looking for a driver for your bluetooth dongle
[03:53:29] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos the making of the theoretical cable.
[03:53:33] <SWPadnos> not an emulator
[03:53:36] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos in a way....
[03:53:44] <Gamma-X> im going to dnc it.
[03:53:56] <Gamma-X> im tryin not to buy 2 connectors and get away with one.
[03:54:01] <SWPadnos> the driver would provide a device that looks to normal software like a serial port
[03:54:10] <SWPadnos> right
[03:54:19] <SWPadnos> you need a driver, not an emulator :)
[03:54:24] <cradek> that software probably came with the dongle
[03:54:26] <Gamma-X> yes. to my knowledge that is an emulator
[03:54:39] <fenn> its a driver for an adaptor
[03:54:43] <Gamma-X> eh
[03:54:47] <Gamma-X> what ever hahahahha
[03:54:57] <SWPadnos> nope. an emulator is something that uses software to act like some other thing
[03:55:19] <SWPadnos> this is a driver that allows the system to access the serial port (which happens to be at the other end of a bluetooth link)
[03:55:33] <Gamma-X> i want to emulate a serial port, all the outgoing data will be routed to the bluetooth
[03:55:38] <SWPadnos> arther than on the other side of an 8250, for example
[03:55:42] <SWPadnos> rather
[03:56:10] <SWPadnos> for reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emulator
[03:56:42] <fenn> we used to get this kind of question all the time when i worked at a hardware store
[03:56:49] <cradek> http://www.comedycorner.org/75.html
[03:56:58] <fenn> "i want a magic box that will do this, and it's called a blarneybipper"
[03:57:14] <fenn> and then they go on to insist that we ought to carry such a thing
[03:57:21] <fenn> even though it doesn't exist
[03:57:44] <Gamma-X> An emulator duplicates (provides an emulation of) the functions of one system using a different system, so that the second system behaves like (and appears to be) the first system.
[03:58:06] <tomp2> Gamma-X: dont worry about the name, you just may have more success if you try lookin for a 'driver'
[03:58:12] <Gamma-X> the second system is my dnc software
[03:58:17] <Gamma-X> lol
[03:58:17] <SWPadnos> yes, and you're not doing that. you're trying to access a system (the serial port) via a known communications channel (bluetooth)
[03:58:33] <SWPadnos> but anyway, now that we know you need a driver, you should go download it :)
[03:59:10] <Gamma-X> serial port to bluetooth driver
[03:59:18] <fenn> other way around
[03:59:21] <Gamma-X> type that in on google and see what the first thing that pops up says lol
[03:59:36] <cradek> what OS do you intend to use to dripfeed?
[03:59:53] <cradek> (whatever the dnc dripfeeder runs on I assume)
[04:00:15] <tomp2> beware M$ will time out if the time to exec one line is too long ( just several seconds )
[04:00:21] <cradek> if it's dos you will not find bluetooth serial port drivers. serial ports were not the least bit virtualized
[04:00:26] <fenn> Gamma-X: the difference is that the link you're talking about actually points to a serial emulator
[04:01:09] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:01:15] <SWPadnos> I was noticing that :)
[04:01:20] <SWPadnos> it has nothing to do with bluetooth
[04:01:25] <SWPadnos> or drivers ;)
[04:01:53] <Gamma-X> lol
[04:02:09] <cradek> Gamma-X: is the dripfeeder dos software?
[04:06:08] <Gamma-X> no
[04:06:18] <Gamma-X> windows
[04:06:29] <fenn> dos will be more reliable
[04:06:34] <cradek> good, then you can just use the driver that came with your dongle
[04:06:52] <fenn> but, err.. so will a cable
[04:07:40] <Gamma-X> im trying not to use 2 dongles lol
[04:07:41] <SWPadnos> yeah, I wonder how bluetooth will work next to a milling machine
[04:07:42] <cradek> Gamma-X: did you get your machine home already?
[04:07:44] <SWPadnos> should be interesting
[04:07:53] <Gamma-X> cradek nope saturday! lol
[04:08:07] <Gamma-X> gettin it to fit in my garage is gunna be even more interesting
[04:08:16] <cradek> yep I know about this
[04:08:39] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/bridgeport/DSCN6320.JPG
[04:08:46] <cradek> this is what was required to get mine in the door
[04:09:54] <Gamma-X> fu3k
[04:10:08] <Gamma-X> was it hard?
[04:10:14] <Gamma-X> mynes not like that though lol
[04:10:20] <Gamma-X> i have abig head on it
[04:10:29] <dmess> the WIGGLEG a fidia 2k into ous place last week.... it was sweet to watch... i thought they were euchered...
[04:10:35] <cradek> it was 2 days work
[04:10:51] <cradek> but, I didn't destroy it or me
[04:11:13] <dmess> you wanted that off to clean it anyway... LOL
[04:11:16] <cradek> pulling pulleys and stuff can be easy or hard.
[04:11:24] <cradek> you just never know
[04:11:33] <dmess> brake cleaner... easy
[04:11:38] <cradek> dmess: clean? it would just get dirty again
[04:11:57] <dmess> pls..
[04:12:32] <dmess> fan portion looks completely clogged
[04:12:56] <cradek> that's the top, fan is on the bottom
[04:13:38] <cradek> at least I don't think it blows through the top
[04:13:46] <dmess> still .. clean it firrst
[04:14:01] <tomp2> do you have to go upstairs to pull the draw bar ? :)
[04:14:17] <cradek> no drawbar
[04:14:34] <cradek> but if there was, there would just be a hole in the drywall :-)
[04:14:36] <dmess> LOL
[04:14:50] <cradek> plenty of room above it
[04:15:07] <Gamma-X> i got power draw bar! WOOO
[04:15:11] <cradek> the spindle is actually solid. no hole for a drawbar even if you want one
[04:17:21] <dmess> what adaptor??
[04:18:00] <cradek> erickson quick change 30
[04:18:05] <cradek> it's nice
[04:18:59] <dmess> lotsa stuff for that around.. cool
[04:19:15] <cradek> yeah it's not too rare. but some stuff is hard to find.
[04:19:19] <dmess> and cheap
[04:19:31] <cradek> drill (JT) adapters, boring heads, etc seem very rare
[04:19:33] <dmess> like what??
[04:19:37] <fenn> cheaper than hsk at least
[04:20:04] <Gamma-X> http://www.shopfloorautomations.com/flexw.php
[04:20:07] <fenn> dmess: which do you prefer, weldon shank/setscrew or ER collet?
[04:20:28] <cradek> I'm going to want a boring head pretty soon... will probably have to use straight shank + weldon adapter
[04:20:28] <Gamma-X> cradek we got the same adaptor!
[04:20:54] <ds2> boring head on CNC?
[04:21:03] <dmess> we just put b/heads in good tool holders... static balance and roll
[04:21:04] <cradek> bearing seats
[04:21:07] <Gamma-X> anybody make a cheap 4th axis?
[04:21:32] <Gamma-X> or something that can convert a mill into a laithe? like attachements for general work?
[04:21:35] <fenn> er, i was talking about endmills
[04:21:38] <cradek> I doubt this machine will cut round enough otherwise
[04:22:05] <cradek> Gamma-X: you can do lathe work on a mill, sort of, but the lack of tailstock is very limiting
[04:22:16] <fenn> much easier the other way around
[04:22:18] <dmess> if it NEED to be round boys... always... BORE it..
[04:22:19] <cradek> you can do mill work on a lathe a little more easily.
[04:22:36] <cradek> (both take some creativity)
[04:22:54] <fenn> best is a "metalmaster"
[04:23:01] <fenn> or labormil
[04:23:16] <fenn> but you'll never find one of those
[04:23:20] <dmess> lathe on a mill is easy.. as long as you can hold the bar stock in a collet
[04:23:46] <cradek> but no tailstock.
[04:24:10] <Gamma-X> well instead of the laithe idea who makes a cheap 4th axis?
[04:24:15] <dmess> tools mounted to table.. and program the part.. NOT the tool...
[04:24:24] <Gamma-X> or was that ur reply fenn?
[04:24:28] <fenn> Gamma-X: what are you making?
[04:24:40] <fenn> specifically
[04:24:51] <Gamma-X> first is digitizing probe...
[04:25:12] <fenn> uh.. piece of threaded rod and bench grinder. next!
[04:25:33] <Gamma-X> uhhhhh an accurate one that can be resold lol
[04:25:41] <fenn> then get a cnc lathe
[04:26:40] <fenn> anyway that sounds like a bad idea.. no market for it
[04:27:20] <cradek> I might buy one - I'd have to see.
[04:27:55] <cradek> I'd probably be more interested in a good tool length measuring switch though
[04:28:33] <Gamma-X> fenn u base ur statement on what?
[04:29:30] <fenn> my general observation that industry is conservative and prefers a solid reputation over innovation
[04:29:34] <Gamma-X> cradek im trying to make both.
[04:30:04] <cradek> I'm tempted to design one using the usual switchable magnetic indicator base
[04:30:10] <cradek> then it could be moved around
[04:30:23] <cradek> (and the extra height wouldn't hurt)
[04:30:55] <Gamma-X> fenn, ur statement is mind numbing. Its like saying theres no need in the world for a 5 or 6 axis mill.
[04:32:04] <SWPadnos> the people who would buy one are generallt more interested in getting a trusted name in mills than getting a new qhiz-bang thing from someone they've never heard of
[04:32:10] <SWPadnos> generally
[04:32:15] <SWPadnos> gah
[04:32:23] <SWPadnos> and "whiz-bang", of course :)
[04:32:47] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos it wouldnt be sold to high end companys....
[04:32:56] <Gamma-X> well the market wouldnt be for them
[04:33:04] <fenn> what's your market then'
[04:33:08] <SWPadnos> the hobby market is somewhat different, but still not too quick to embrace new vendors, and very slow to shell out much money for something they "could make themselves"
[04:33:42] <SWPadnos> unless it's well known that a certain product is much better than they could make it
[04:34:03] <SWPadnos> (which adds to the slow uptake of new products - it has to be known to be much better than something someone can build)
[04:34:07] <fenn> tormach tooling is a good example of something you "could make yourself" but would rather not
[04:34:25] <Gamma-X> it would be marketed for hobby and small scale machining companys.
[04:34:45] <fenn> digitizing probes just happen to work even if they're glued together
[04:36:22] <Gamma-X> and
[04:36:50] <fenn> and so they're easy for your target market to make themselves, which, being the cnc crowd, they'd probably be inclined to do
[04:38:40] <SWPadnos> I wouldn't want to discourage you from making a business in this area, but I'd definitely suggest that you look carefully at what's available, what it costs, and how well it sells
[04:38:48] <Gamma-X> well ill give u an example, cradek said a few lines before this, i might buy one, id have to see
[04:38:59] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos already have
[04:39:10] <SWPadnos> ok, then I look forward to seeing what you come up with :)
[04:39:15] <fenn> i'd definitely suggest not trying to use a mill to make long skinny cylindrical parts
[04:39:22] <Gamma-X> once people see it work, and what it is made out of. they will know.
[04:39:34] <Gamma-X> im gunna buy the tips from a diff manufacture
[04:39:37] <Gamma-X> with ruby tips.
[04:39:49] <Gamma-X> all that JAZZZZzzzz
[04:41:36] <tomp2> you can buy switches with ruby tips, AGie used 'Mikon' switches for homes, good to 1um.
[04:42:16] <SWPadnos> damn - that's a hell of a switch
[04:42:29] <tomp2> the idea was the tip didnt deform after a brazillion uses
[04:43:05] <tomp2> the AGie used open loop 1/2 um steps
[04:45:40] <tomp2> http://www.drahterosion.com/english/frames_e.htm
[04:52:54] <tomp2> ooops, My-con not Mikon http://www.baumerelectric.com/en/213.html
[04:53:20] <tomp2> hell, it was 20 yrs ago at least
[04:53:26] <SWPadnos> heh
[05:52:03] <maddash> NANOTUBE BLOOD VESSELS!!!!!!!!!
[05:52:23] <maddash> INDESTRUCTIBLE CIRCULATORY SYSTEM! STROKE-PROOF CRANIUM1!!!!!
[06:20:41] <maddash> hahaha, I can't wait until my wiimote arrives
[06:21:14] <maddash> then, using my IR leds, I can use my CNC to literally DRAW in metal - in realtime!
[06:25:28] <maddash> draw a path, that is.
[06:36:43] <Jymmm> and erase it at the same time too
[06:39:19] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=131
[08:19:21] <anonimasu> you can get 1┬Ám inductive switches
[08:19:28] <anonimasu> www.baumerelectric.de sells them
[09:17:22] <Guest887> hello
[09:17:49] <Guest887> I have a question about configuration EMC2
[09:19:14] <Guest887> does EMC2 support sleep and boost mode during acceleration and brakeing for stepper motors?
[12:34:53] <BigJohnT> I have a CNC4PC parallel port breakout board connected via a parallel cable. When I force all the output pins on pins 1, 8, 9, 14 and 16 do not come on. Do some parallel ports not have all the pins or is there some other area that I should look. Thanks
[12:48:39] <archivist> is the cable fully wired , some are not
[12:51:07] <BigJohnT> I'll have to ring it out and check, thanks
[13:08:48] <BigJohnT> I checked all the pins and they are all wired through thanks
[13:23:28] <birdmun> I have started using emc 2.2.2 and axis. I can't seem to select override limits on the axis gui. Is there something I need to know about how to enable that feature?
[13:25:02] <BigJohnT> doesn't work for me either...
[13:26:13] <birdmun> at least I have someone else to comiserate with :P
[13:26:22] <BigJohnT> lol
[13:35:27] <jepler> I ran a modified simulator to add simulated limit switches. After jogging onto the -Z limit switch, the "on limit switch" symbol shows next to Z, the machine goes to "OFF" state, and the pop-up "joint 2 on limit switch error" is displayed. To jog off the limits, I click "OK", then "Override Limits", then "machine on". Now I can jog up with the Page Up key.
[13:35:59] <jepler> can you try this exact sequence and see if it works for you? Or, describe the exact sequence of events and actions in your situation?
[13:36:48] <birdmun> alright how would i go about adding simulated limit switches?
[13:39:51] <jepler> does your real machine have limit switches? Or are you talking about overriding the limits written in the inifile, [AXIS_n]MIN_LIMIT?
[13:40:01] <BigJohnT> jepler: works for me using hardware limit switches
[13:40:22] <jepler> I believe that Override Limits only applies to limit switches, not emc's soft limits.
[13:41:00] <birdmun> overriding limits that are written
[13:41:01] <birdmun> so i would have to make axis/emc think the machine is larger than it is to make this work
[13:41:11] <BigJohnT> now that I understand what it is for...
[13:43:30] <BigJohnT> now if I could just get M66 to work...
[13:45:06] <jepler> birdmun: do you think that emc is incorrectly reporting that the program is too big for the machine's limits?
[13:46:13] <birdmun> the gcode does say that it oversteps the boundaries by .02" but i know from watching the machine run there is room enough for the moves
[13:46:30] <birdmun> emc i would guess is correctly reporting the size though
[13:47:27] <jepler> birdmun: I think the only way you can go .02" past a .ini limit is to change the .ini limit
[13:47:40] <jepler> "override limit" is specifically for jogging off a physical limit switch
[13:47:42] <birdmun> i can do that
[13:47:47] <birdmun> gotcha
[13:48:35] <birdmun> i was foolishly hoping/thinking it would allow me to run a part that seems to be slightly larger than what i have the machine programmed for
[13:49:17] <BigJohnT> why do you have the machine programmed smaller than it is?
[13:50:18] <birdmun> i havent ever actually measured it precisely
[13:50:51] <BigJohnT> do you have limit switches?
[13:50:55] <birdmun> nope
[13:51:58] <BigJohnT> jog as close as you dare to one end and zero the axis then jog to the other end that is your size... as EMC2 knows it
[13:52:15] <birdmun> true enough
[13:52:39] <birdmun> i just got it running a few days ago
[13:53:01] <birdmun> i know its roughly 7x7x3
[13:53:14] <birdmun> but yeah i can get it more precise than that
[13:53:32] <BigJohnT> mill?
[13:53:36] <CIA-46> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/gui/axis.lyx: note that Override Limits is for physical limit switches and jogging; it can't override inifile limits
[13:53:58] <CIA-46> 03jepler 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/gui/axis.lyx: merge: note about Override Limits
[13:54:40] <birdmun> yes a mill
[13:54:53] <BigJohnT> cool
[13:55:10] <BigJohnT> I have a 48" x 48" plasma table
[13:55:18] <birdmun> damn
[13:55:32] <BigJohnT> goes 500 IPM
[13:55:37] <birdmun> i dont think that would fit well on my work bench
[13:55:46] <birdmun> * birdmun wont say how slow his is
[13:55:48] <BigJohnT> it's portable
[13:56:02] <birdmun> ty CIA-46 for posting that info
[13:56:17] <birdmun> wish i could have found that while searching earlier
[13:56:20] <BigJohnT> gotta go fast with plasma and no back pressure on the axis
[13:57:01] <jepler> birdmun: CIA is a bot that reports changes (hopefully improvements) that developers have made in the emc2 software, as they happen. That message says that I amended the docs to say that about the Override Limits button.
[13:57:07] <birdmun> i manage a bit over 100th of that speed .. my steppers are not really the best choice for my table and my psu is way underpowered for them
[13:57:15] <birdmun> gotcha
[13:58:12] <BigJohnT> do you know how to figure out what voltage you need for your power supply?
[13:58:47] <birdmun> my driver board will support up to about 40vdc
[13:59:08] <birdmun> my psu is a converted computer psu so only 12v
[13:59:27] <archivist> two psus
[13:59:36] <birdmun> gotta use what i have until i can do better
[13:59:58] <BigJohnT> cool
[14:00:35] <birdmun> my understanding is when using psus one must use the same type/wattage
[14:00:36] <BigJohnT> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/StepTimingCalculatorPlus.ods
[14:01:47] <jepler> If your driver lets you set the motor current, then you typically want as high a supply voltage as your driver can accept, but no more than 25x the motor's faceplate voltage (which is a rating that applies when that voltage is applied to the motor as DC)
[14:02:34] <birdmun> well my steppers are rated at 12v and i cant do better than that currently :P no job
[14:04:19] <BigJohnT> well gotta go to work ttul
[14:04:29] <jepler> see you later BigJohnT
[14:06:06] <birdmun> i am going to get out of here too ... i have work around the house that needs to be done ... i might actually get some company today
[14:06:15] <birdmun> thanks again for the assistance
[14:14:12] <the_ball> skunkworks, im from norway, but living in australia. things are good here, not much work on the mill, just adding some liquid cooling to it. it seems to help the surface finish quite a bit
[14:16:16] <the_ball> skunkworks, what have you been up to? i got my first turbine! waiting for a plane to put it in, hoping it will arrive this year
[14:17:39] <skunkworks> cool
[14:20:32] <skunkworks> busy at work here and home.. No real tinker time.
[14:43:22] <sxg> so quiet now
[14:48:54] <Karl1> can someone point me to the article on the tripod control in EMC? I saw the alex video and was interested in the project.
[14:55:20] <cradek> Karl1: I don't know of an article, but the kinematics and configuration alex used to control his machine are in the emc2 release
[14:58:53] <Karl1> I assumed that the "washer" in the video has 3 axis of movement - and I saw a project where EMC controlled a ghost puppet
[14:59:22] <cradek> yes I think alex's could also move up and down
[15:01:32] <skunkworks> This? http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47305
[15:02:24] <Karl1> I was looking at controlling a sleigh - maybe using RF to control the pitch and yaw in addition to the 3 axis - probably not something I could throw togther as quick as next week, but I'll have a whole year to pull it off!
[15:02:56] <rayh> It seems to me that there is limited Z ability with interaction between location in the xy plane and tilt.
[15:03:20] <cradek> you will need more than three joints if you want to control pitch/yaw. sounds like you are describing a hexapod
[15:03:40] <rayh> Exactly.
[15:06:37] <Karl1> The thought of using remote contol of the sleigh would give the pitch an yaw - kinda like a marionette with the contol of height and position done by the tripod.
[15:07:18] <cradek> if you're hanging from the tripod, I don't see how you can do anything but hang there
[15:07:49] <cradek> imagine hanging from a rope - it would be the same - there's nothing to tilt 'against'
[15:08:43] <rayh> In the washer case if one wire is slack so the washer is hanging nearest it, the other two wires will tilt the washer up toward them.
[15:09:44] <rayh> That is the advantage of the cable hexapod. You can slide the platform around xy separate from it's tilt.
[15:09:59] <rayh> Until you reach a singularity.
[15:10:33] <cradek> I don't think that's true. The weight of the washer will always pull the same amount on all three wires won't it?
[15:11:14] <cradek> near the edges of travel, something might be different, but you definitely can't control the washer tilt independent of the position
[15:11:27] <rayh> Sure but all three wires are not pulling from the same angle.
[15:11:46] <rayh> No you can't control tilt and position.
[15:11:49] <cradek> right, so you might get some tilt, but not controllable independent of position
[15:11:53] <Karl1> if the washer in alex's video moves XYZ - substitute the washer for the marionette control - hanging down to the sleigh control - 2 motors pitching and yawing the sleigh would run via RF control
[15:13:01] <Karl1> inside the sleigh - taking up and spooling out the marionette wires to pitch and yaw on command
[15:13:48] <Karl1> so it would be 5 control motors
[15:14:42] <rayh> I think the marionette example depends on a very steep angle, near 180 degrees against gravity.
[15:15:01] <rayh> And there you would see pitch and yaw.
[15:15:13] <rayh> but not xy positioning
[15:17:15] <Karl1> imagine being the marionette puppeteer - controlling the pitch and yaw of the sleigh via overhead control - now substitute the puppetteer with the tripod's "washer"
[15:17:49] <Karl1> the washer has the 3 axis of control
[15:18:08] <rayh> Yes for pitch and yaw but not for position in xy.
[15:18:31] <rayh> The xy position is not done with the strings, It's done with the arm.
[15:20:46] <rayh> Hi John
[15:20:53] <BigJohnT> When using a limit switch and a homing switch does the limit switch override the homing switch?
[15:20:58] <BigJohnT> Hi rayh
[15:21:22] <rayh> Which parport breakout board was that?
[15:21:35] <BigJohnT> cnc4pc c1g
[15:22:09] <Karl1> OK maybe I'm mis-naming pitch and yaw - I am speaking in relation to the axis of an airplane (puppet) controlling the spaceial position in the confinds of the tripod poles
[15:22:31] <BigJohnT> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=49
[15:25:47] <BigJohnT> I just tried to call cnc4pc and they are on vacation till after the 25th...
[15:27:26] <SWPadnos> have you wired +5V to the EN input?
[15:27:43] <rayh> I see that on their site. Don't see any reason why the breakout board would cause the problems you see though.
[15:27:45] <BigJohnT> yes
[15:27:48] <SWPadnos> ok
[15:28:08] <BigJohnT> I checked the cable to be sure all pins are wired through as well
[15:28:18] <SWPadnos> well, I'm out of ideas. be back later :)
[15:28:31] <BigJohnT> all the inputs work as well as the rest of the outputs
[15:29:18] <BigJohnT> could the problem be in the parallel port itself?
[15:29:24] <rayh> You tried using the inverter on the offending pins?
[15:29:43] <BigJohnT> inverter?
[15:30:03] <rayh> Each pin has a parameter that reverses the polarity.
[15:30:13] <rayh> Output pin that is.
[15:30:24] <rayh> Inside the HAL.
[15:30:41] <BigJohnT> no I didn't try that
[15:31:07] <rayh> Let me fire up a stepper.
[15:32:23] <BigJohnT> I'll try that when I get back to the house this evening
[15:32:57] <rayh> They look like "bit RW FALSE parport.0.pin-01-out-invert"
[15:33:16] <BigJohnT> ok I remember seeing them
[15:33:17] <rayh> You can use setp parport.0.pin-01-out-invert true
[15:33:42] <rayh> I'm curious to see what happens.
[15:34:16] <rayh> This is an on-board parport or a PCI card?
[15:34:18] <BigJohnT> ok, I can't try it right now I'm at my machine shop and the plasma cutter is at my fab shop
[15:34:28] <BigJohnT> on board parport
[15:34:56] <rayh> Good luck. Send me a note with the result.
[15:35:17] <rayh> Gotta get away and do some wiring. Catch you later.
[15:35:23] <BigJohnT> ok, quick question regarding limit and home switches if you have a sec
[15:35:52] <rayh> Oh yes. I was going to talk about that.
[15:35:54] <BigJohnT> will the limit switch over ride the home switch when homing
[15:36:04] <rayh> No.
[15:36:18] <rayh> During homing you can ask it to ignore the limit.
[15:36:38] <BigJohnT> Ok, I'm making a bar to activate the switches when it slides
[15:37:02] <rayh> Sounds good. A single switch for both ends?
[15:37:22] <rayh> Will all switches be wired to the same pin?
[15:37:23] <BigJohnT> one switch for both limits and a seperate switch for homing
[15:37:29] <BigJohnT> no
[15:37:50] <BigJohnT> unless I can use the limit switch to home on...
[15:38:00] <rayh> You can
[15:38:09] <BigJohnT> that makes it easy then
[15:38:27] <BigJohnT> thanks rayh
[15:38:30] <rayh> And you can tell EMC to ignore a limit during the home sequence.
[15:39:08] <BigJohnT> using the same switch for both limit and homing?
[15:39:43] <rayh> Yes. But I found that if you use a single parport pin for all axes(axii) then it will see limits as faults on the non homing axes.
[15:39:58] <rayh> That's a confusing way of saying it.
[15:40:16] <BigJohnT> ok I can use a seperate limit/home for each axis
[15:40:31] <BigJohnT> and I understand what you mean
[15:40:44] <rayh> That will work fine. And that is the way the sample configs do it.
[15:41:08] <BigJohnT> ok sweet that will make it easy to do for me
[15:41:19] <rayh> I used a ladder rung to tell all axes to ignore limits when any axis is homing.
[15:42:12] <BigJohnT> if I have seperate limit/home switches for each axis I don't need to do that correct?
[15:42:46] <BigJohnT> and each on a seperate input pin...
[15:42:49] <rayh> Right as long as the home switches are between (inside) the limits
[15:42:54] <jmkasunich> BigJohnT: right - emc can be configured to ignore an axis's limits while that axis is homing
[15:43:12] <jmkasunich> but it can't ignore another axis's limits while one axis is homing, unless you do it in ladder logic
[15:43:24] <BigJohnT> ok that makes sense
[15:43:30] <rayh> Or a custom hal module.
[15:43:43] <rayh> I wrote one of those also but liked the ladder better.
[15:44:02] <rayh> but then I write ladder quite often for other things.
[15:44:11] <BigJohnT> in EMC
[15:44:14] <BigJohnT> ?
[15:44:21] <rayh> PLCs
[15:44:28] <BigJohnT> me too!
[15:44:43] <rayh> Great.
[15:44:49] <BigJohnT> AB, AD, Panosonic mostly
[15:45:14] <rayh> I use a lot of AutomationDirect stuff.
[15:45:20] <BigJohnT> have you done anything with the panosonic plc and servo systems?
[15:45:29] <rayh> Not a thing.
[15:45:45] <BigJohnT> I try and use AD if the customer is not stuck on Allen Bradley!
[15:46:03] <rayh> Right. I had one of those a few years ago.
[15:46:24] <BigJohnT> the panosonic has function blocks for the servo control that make is so easy to program
[15:47:27] <BigJohnT> Our biggest customer has 99% Allen Bradley so it is hard to get anything else in there just because the hundreds of people that maintian them all know AB's
[15:47:34] <rayh> Fascinating. I tend to use EMC for those situations where I need real servo.
[15:48:05] <rayh> Yep. I'm far enought out in the woods that most of my customers don't care.
[15:48:16] <rayh> And I have to service 'em anyway.
[15:48:19] <BigJohnT> For finite operations I prefer PLC's
[15:48:39] <rayh> They are rugged.
[15:49:56] <BigJohnT> for example I have a quote here on my desk for a 50 servo, drive, plc, cables for about $800
[15:50:20] <rayh> Okay.
[15:50:43] <BigJohnT> now on my plasma cutter I went with Automation Direct steppers and Gecko 203v drives for about $200 an axis
[15:51:04] <BigJohnT> but I'm not trying to 4000rpm either!
[15:51:14] <rayh> Exactly
[15:51:35] <BigJohnT> what kind of industry do you work for?
[15:52:22] <rayh> Where I live one has to diversify. Sawmills, machine shops,
[15:52:31] <BigJohnT> We have manufacturing and hardwood industries here
[15:52:37] <BigJohnT> cool
[15:52:49] <rayh> Where is that? If you don't mind my asking.
[15:52:59] <BigJohnT> Poplar Bluff, MO
[15:53:02] <BigJohnT> u?
[15:53:43] <rayh> Okay. I installed some paint curing ovens and stuff near the southern border long time ago.
[15:53:50] <rayh> Forgotten the town.
[15:54:26] <rayh> I'm in the U.P. of Michigan. About 140 miles north and west of Green Bay, Wisconsin.
[15:54:50] <BigJohnT> it gets cold up there...
[15:55:04] <rayh> Yep.
[15:55:24] <rayh> Been near zero f for a couple weeks now.
[15:55:25] <BigJohnT> well I know you want to go to work and I need to as well, thanks for the help
[15:55:39] <rayh> You bet. Good talking with you.
[18:23:44] <fenn> the guy who gave me this free touchscreen panel-pc thingy at the cnc workshop forgot to mention that he had destroyed the parport and then attempted to re-solder a new connector back on
[18:24:46] <cradek> don't give a gift horse a free lunch...
[18:25:25] <fenn> there aint no such thing as a gift horse?
[18:25:37] <cradek> yeah, something like that
[19:38:18] <skunkworks> you can tell the age of the horse by its teeth.. (hence you should not look a gift horse in the mouth)
[19:39:24] <skunkworks> or something like that
[19:59:20] <alex_joni> skunkworks knows jis horses\
[19:59:25] <alex_joni> his
[21:32:14] <anonimasu> hm
[21:33:44] <anonimasu> Gamma-X: wake up..
[22:07:21] <Karl1> hey all
[22:07:36] <skunkworks> Hello
[22:12:20] <fenn> does anyone know if it's possible to buy bulk breakfast cereal, like you'd find in a cafeteria?
[22:12:58] <ds2> yes
[22:13:13] <fenn> (and how/where to do so)
[22:13:24] <ds2> restruant supply
[22:14:24] <Karl1> Sam's Club/Costco
[22:25:36] <Karl1> I wanted to learn about the control of a tripod setup, earlier today I was on and questioned if the Alex video had any documentation; could not find anything that was obvious to me; can someone point me to the info?
[22:26:30] <fenn> well, start by reading this if you dont know about kinematics: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Kinematics
[22:27:14] <fenn> hm, this is the pretty version http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/motion_kinematics.html
[22:28:05] <fenn> then it's just a matter of adding "loadrt tripodkins" to your .hal file
[22:29:20] <fenn> i think you have to look at the source for explanation of the parameters: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/emc2/src/emc/kinematics/tripodkins.c?rev=1.10;content-type=text%2Fplain
[22:30:49] <fenn> i really think what you want is a hexapod though, even if you only have three motors controlling the cables
[22:32:33] <Karl1> Hmm, just looked over the kinematics - has possibilities; I will compare with hexapod - got a link?
[22:33:49] <fenn> hmm.. the only page i can think of is mine: http://fennetic.net/machines/?hexapod
[22:35:42] <Karl1> Checked it out, fenn - wow!
[22:37:34] <fenn> this may be interesting to you also http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/robocrane/
[22:38:52] <jmkasunich> Karl1: are you the guy who wants to suspend a sleigh like a puppet?
[22:44:49] <Karl1> yeah, could also be a model airplane, snotrag the ghost, or whatever
[22:45:03] <jmkasunich> what kind of info are you looking for?
[22:48:38] <Karl1> I was looking for any info to start researching the project, but I think Fenn pointed me to the kinematic section - just using ya'all give me the insite
[22:49:02] <jmkasunich> I've been wanting to make something like that, but too many other irons in the fire
[22:49:23] <Karl1> I know what you mean - I was using
[22:50:35] <Karl1> mach3 to control some steppers before I found a servo set up and needed "real time" feedback and control.
[22:50:49] <Karl1> Hence the EMC route
[22:52:49] <Karl1> It's easier to justify money spent when it comes to amusing my kids, as far as my wife sees it.
[22:54:02] <fenn> you just need to get your kids some proper hobbies
[22:54:45] <fenn> "baby needs a new pair of welding goggles"
[22:55:19] <Karl1> yeah, they still think I'm a wizard at this stuff - sparks fly and a puff of smoke - I'm still their hero.
[22:57:29] <Karl1> My son probably has more insite on machine control than the whole 5th grade!
[22:57:51] <fenn> wow costco seems really cool from what i can read about it on the internet
[23:01:33] <Karl1> Costco is interesting, the CEO works the same jobs throughout the company - he might be stocking the shelves or attending a board meeting.
[23:03:51] <jmkasunich> we have one here, but I've never gone there
[23:04:25] <jmkasunich> they built the place over the protests of the people in the neighborhood who are affected by the traffix
[23:04:27] <jmkasunich> c
[23:04:33] <SWPadnos> they tend to have good quality stuff at prices that are better than normal stores, but often not quite as good as store sale prices
[23:05:23] <SWPadnos> and the larger stores have tire shops, some have gas stations, the one on Maui even has building supplies
[23:05:34] <Karl1> Ours was put in an already congested area - stay away on saturday.
[23:05:47] <SWPadnos> or within 3 weeks of Christmas ;)
[23:05:50] <SWPadnos> either side
[23:06:29] <Karl1> just wish a bridgeport wholesale outlet would go in.
[23:06:34] <SWPadnos> heh
[23:06:47] <fenn> it's called HGR surplus
[23:06:54] <SWPadnos> and don't forget controls and stuff
[23:07:08] <fenn> bridgeports are overrated anyway
[23:07:09] <SWPadnos> ho, Homier traveling auctions
[23:07:12] <fenn> ugh
[23:07:14] <SWPadnos> ho ho homier
[23:07:22] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos barfs at the thought
[23:09:12] <Karl1> I guess I've accumulated my electronics through work scraps - working electonics that have to be stripped from a subassembly that went bad
[23:14:41] <fenn> i want to go play in the scrap yard but i have too much junk already
[23:16:15] <Karl1> Just get a storage building - I convinced the wife I needed 7000sq feet - she found me a place 9 miles from home; it has 3 phase power onsite too!
[23:16:27] <fenn> woah
[23:16:43] <BigJohnT> she just wanted you out of the house with all your junk LOL
[23:17:55] <Karl1> Wow, never thought of it that way - she said that these treasures needed a place to be buried!
[23:29:58] <dmess> does she have a sister...????
[23:33:33] <Karl1> No sister - adopted only child!
[23:34:44] <SWPadnos> so she *dould* have a sister :)
[23:34:45] <dmess> man.. you cna fish... .. good catch... ; )
[23:34:46] <SWPadnos> err - could
[23:35:23] <Karl1> she shows lots of interest in my projects, but always thinks I have too many irons in the fire!
[23:35:53] <dmess> mine used-to-be like that...
[23:36:09] <dmess> she was right of course...
[23:36:44] <Karl1> I tell her more money could finish them faster!
[23:37:46] <dmess> in my trade... landing gear manufacturing disaster control... you live to juggle live chainsaws...
[23:38:17] <dmess> and you cant plan ANYTHING
[23:38:53] <Karl1> She also brags to her circle of friends the accomplishments I've done in the workshop - better to be handy than handsome!
[23:39:08] <dmess> i hear ya...
[23:39:26] <dmess> but i HATE working with wood
[23:40:15] <Karl1> Just another medium for an artist - I like metal.
[23:40:37] <dmess> pick a METAL... im in
[23:40:59] <dmess> i'll cut anything... really
[23:41:48] <dmess> you supply the models... i'll WHACK EM OUT
[23:43:14] <Karl1> wish I had the workshop my father has - he's dividing it up between myself and 3 brothers; I'm guessing I'll be getting a Rockwell Metal Lathe and a Horizontal Mill.
[23:45:05] <BigJohnT> any parallel port guru's around
[23:45:12] <dmess> DUDe... your BLESSED... my dad was a gold miner.. he brought me to work and said there now you can buy what you want.. but i only mined for 5-6 yrs...
[23:45:53] <Karl1> much gold found?
[23:47:22] <robin_sz> tap tap tap ....
[23:47:25] <robin_sz> is this thing on?
[23:47:28] <dmess> our home-town has produced over 22 MILLION troy ounces of gold.... since 1909 or so... yeah we found a bit...
[23:49:03] <robin_sz> * robin_sz watches tumbleweed blow by
[23:51:13] <dmess> IM robin_sz
[23:52:03] <Karl1> Cha Ching - did that industry need a lot of support? in other words, was there machine shops around to learn the tool and die trade from?
[23:52:29] <dmess> NONE..
[23:53:35] <dmess> i did a college techy diploma... at 4.0 gp @grad.. and went to find work in a shop.. in 1988
[23:54:41] <Gamma-X> any body have plans for a 3 phase converter?
[23:54:43] <dmess> mining is tied to price of gold... or whatever... Uranium is booming again...
[23:54:53] <BigJohnT> Gamma yes
[23:55:12] <Karl1> I wish I had spent more time in the Model Shop of my first job out of college; I learned a little from a WWII vet who was in a British POW camp - he was from Germany, and part of rommel's Afrika Korps.
[23:55:23] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT can u send me them
[23:55:35] <BigJohnT> stand by
[23:55:40] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT whats up man. i was hopuin u were on yesterday
[23:55:44] <Gamma-X> roger that
[23:56:15] <BigJohnT> trying to figure out why my parallel port pin 1 does not work like the others
[23:56:53] <dmess> i have friend who baught a hous in Elliot Lake Ontario... foe 5000 canadian... about 2 yrs ago... they use it as a place to flop when they want to go sledding... they will get 60-80 G for thai hous in the next yr...
[23:57:30] <eric_U> pin 1 is different than the other pins
[23:58:22] <BigJohnT> will it not work as an output?