just a little tired and a lot excited to see it move
I got RTAPI: ERROR: Unexpected realtime delay on task 1
when I started axis
hmmm. your BASE_PREIOD may be too low
that's because you are a genuinely bad person
I got it when the base period was higher too
did you run the latency test?
my base period is slower than needed by a bit
I think there is something strange about that rtapi error, but they tell me I'm full of it
It started with 2.2
of course, people were telling me I was full of it before I started getting rtapi errors
All Your Base Are Belong to Us
great minds, SWP, great minds...
I forgot what game that was, but it is a funny story
folks, I just picked up 4 NEMA-23's from probotix.
thing is, they don't have keyways.
do they have flats?
my couplers have set screws. Should I grind flats into the shaft?
probably not necessary for the amount of torque a NEMA23 can output
the easy way to couple a stepper to a piece of threaded rod is to use hose clamps and a short length of rubber hose
a solid coupler will inevitably bind
All my rubber hose is in use. I flog all my slaves with it...
you can get more at Home Slave Depot
* fenn goes back to reading about US metrication
apparently the navy measures distance in kiloyards
these 23's have hella torque. 'bout want to take my arm off.
which ones did you get? (I see 4 motors, all NEMA23)
can't 'member the specs off the top of my head. the ones with the highest torque curve
the big green ones?
on the probotix site
I'm up to 480 IPM with max acceleration 75
hmmm. did you get the unipolar ones?
well, they're easier to drive with do-it-yourself electronics, but they can't be driven by high end drivers like geckos
er 6 wire?
i'm cheap -and- easy. plus I'm broke
acceleration is 100 now
I'm not sure if they're worse than bipolar per se, but I don't know of any machines (that you can't lift easily) that use unipolar motors
might need to wire in my limit switches
says they can be driven bipolar
arc, yeah. 6 wire, so I could use them as either uni or bi, right?
ok, good :)
5 no 6 yes
2000oz*in is decent torque
* archivist just got 180's
so, the question is, to grind a flat or not. What's the vote?
is there any practical limit to max acceleration?
bring them by my shop and I'll machine them
you're driving a 1/4-20 rod with this? i wonder if it will take the punishment
try it without, and if the pulleys/couplers slip, then make flats
why do they say 4 wire bipolar on the page for the unipolar steppers?
keep going till I start to loose steps?
yeah, a 1/4-20
because they mistitled the motors
they should say "6-wire steppers"
jessica how long is the maximum distance between the nut and leadscrew bearing?
eric_U, just dont connect the center tap for bipolar
just make to tape the center taps (white and yellow wires, I think)
make sure to ...
i've got a bearing on each end. max length is 26"
eh, well, um.. just dont put too much force on it
I went 1/4-20 cuz the shaft was 1/4
if you don't have a lathe it's good thinking
btw, fenn, did you have your meeting last night?
I don't have a lathe, but i have access to one. why?
yeah we talked about C and how foreign investors are buying up all of the US's assets
whould you have put a 1/4 pocket in a 3/8 threaded rod?
and i showed off one of my lathe's axes
how many ppl showed up?
up to 510 IPM with 500 as max accel
all good. perhaps after the holidays I'll swing by. I'm in b'ton often enuf.
I'm taking a baguazhang class in town
if you have access to a lathe/grinder, then you're better off using a screw that has the inner thread diameter about equal to the motor shaft diameter
BigJohnT: what does max vel have to do with max accel?
you get rid of the threads on the end, and you can make a nice bearing shoulder, etc.
dunno but my limit seems to be 510 on velocity
swp, that makes sense
I'm just trying to figure this out
also, when you turn it down, you can make the end the same diameter as the motor shaft, so a coupler is a little easier (maybe)
does the rubber hose solution add any backlash? it seems it would.
the reinforced braided hose is pretty stiff actually
use reinforced hose
anyway steppers act like a spring within a half step
it's not like you use a 1-foot length- more like 1/16 or 1/8" between shaft ends
jessica: use a hydraulic hose
maybe a little more, but not a lot
no wind up
shame I only made a 5/8 clearance hole for the coupling spot.
tight fit for a hoseclamp
yeh, you might have screwed the pooch there
ok I found out what max acc is limited by changing directions
do you have backlash set?
i like to build things tight. unfortunately, that bites back if you make a mistake.
no backlash on this machine that I can tell
ie, is there a non-zero BACKLASH setting in EMC?
that will also affect max usable accel, I think
jessica: a good motor mount is simply a square tube turned sideways to give access to the coupling, and some holes drilled through
Now he tells me...
or you can use a standoff on each corner
I used blocks of wood...
that should work.. i tend to have a distaste for wood in machinery
If I could afford aluminium, i'd use that.
My machine is a rockcliff variant
by this time, it's more variant than anything
what or who is rockliff?
rockcliff is a company that sells plans for homebuilt mills
cnczone has a forum for them (i thyink)
heh "Your cnc router will be as functional as a real milling machine"
well, i dont know how they figure that
well looks like 420 IPM with 300 accl is the max I can get without loosing step with 24vdc
i'm not so stupid as to believe that, but the machine should do what I need it to.
I'm doing mostly art carving with my machine
BigJohnT: i noticed that when you push steppers to the edge like that, you'll lose steps while cutting at fast speeds
BigJohnT, leave headroom for cutting forces etc
well folks... off to dinner. talk to you all soon.
thanks for the help!
it's a plasma torch?
yep 48 x 48
BigJohnT, and pulling pipes cables weight of the head etc
I'm just running 24vdc to test will have 40-50 vdc for real
this is the first time it's alive so i'm exploring the unknown ...
voltage makes a large difference in max velocity
looks like my base period will limit max speed but it it faster than I need so that is good
I could use up to 550 IPM but I rarely cut that thin of material
still getting RTAPI: ERROR: Unexpected realtime delay on task 1 at random even if I'm not running anything in EMC
toastyde1th is now known as toastydeath
Any one know anything about the RTAPI error?
must have been good
BigJohnT: emc has detected that a real-time deadline was missed. it means your computer is not suitable for realtime, or you've set BASE_PERIOD too low. The warning (specifically the one that says "on task #") is new in emc 2.2.
jepler: I got the error even when my base period was set a lot higher than my latency test
what makes a computer not suitable for realtime?
its inability to think
thanks, what causes that?
and a non realtime kernel
I've loaded the computer from the EMC2 CD with ubuntu
ya needs RT kernel in order to rt unless you have a onboard gcode processor
so I should have a rt kernel...
BigJohnT: some hardware can prevent emc from running when it needs to (e.g., very regularly every 20 microseconds if you have BASE_PERIOD 20000); when emc doesn't run on time, this can cause motors to stall or lose steps
fsdafsd: you are being deliberately unhelpful. stop or leave.
like video cards or hard drive demands
BigJohnT: so emc continually measures whether it has met its BASE_PERIOD deadline. If it misses it, even once, it reports it.
ok, how do I determine what the problem is?
that isn't so wasy to do
i've got the system monitor up and running and it shows the cpu running at 30 - 40%
there are several things you can try, but if none of those causes the errors to stop, then there aren't many solutions other than changing motherboards
[01:59:51] <jepler> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#Unexpected_realtime_delay_check_dmesg_for_details
do you have any USB memory sticks/cards plugged in?
is it a laptop or a small form factor PC (or one that's meant to run low power)?
I think that wiki page will go over all the things I was about to try to remember ;)
no it's a p4 tower
with a 3.5 and a dvd and that's it
did you say what kind of video card it has? that's the most frequent cause
no, I don't know what video card it has but I have another one or two that I can try
just reading the link from jepler about the possible solutions
It's kinda funny that it mostly happens when I start up emc but after it'
s on for a while it don't happen
might be the video card
when I started axis the CPU went to 100% for a moment then I got the error...
every time I start axis the CPU meter pegs out and shortly there after I get the error
[02:20:54] <BigJohnT> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/P1010051.jpg
[02:21:01] <BigJohnT> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/P1010049.jpg
BigJohnT: interesting setup
seems awfully geared down though
I get 420 IPM with it...
I guess leadscrews normally gear down the motion a bit too :-)
I wasn't thinking about it right
been cyphering on it a while
yea it's a plasma cutter, no load all speed
woah did you make that timing pulley?
I lightened it, it was solid
I made everything except the slide and 80/20 rails and the pulleys
why does the motor move? i mean why not do it like a printer where the motor is stationary and the belt is just clipped onto the part that moves
It was simpler that way. If the motor was stationary then I needed an idler pulley and the X would move anyway
so the two axes are identical?
I started out with the motor on the end
pretty much the same
this looks easy to adjust but as it stretches the scale will change
I've not built the x yest
i've thought about doing something like that with bicycle chain
that would work too but the belt is easier for light loads
the timing belt worked out better than I had hoped
well gotta go
the belts are Kevlar and don't stretch...
what's your total gantry/carriage weight (roughly)?
so far it's only a few pounds
but I'm not done LOL
ok - what do you think it'll be when it's finished ;)
SWAG 10 lbs
at the most
ok, that's pretty light
including the torch?
yea, the 80/20 is light
torch is 1/2 pound maybe
Cool, my gf got me a 4pc grabit set... http://www.4grabit.com/Default.asp?bhcp=1
I've got a friend who's making a light-duty router-type machine, and he's using a different approach to the fixed belt drive you have - I was wondering how similar your machine is to his
not very, actually ;)
(his will have a 10-20 pound gantry, and has a 4x12' work envelope, IIRC)
The gantry will cover 50" of travel
that's significantly less than 144" :)
the Y will be 50" as well just so it is portable
right - easier to get through doorways and such
BigJohnT: can you make it 54" instead, or too late?
mine will be 4x4 but with only longer 80/20 could be 4x10
the 80/20 is cheap
of the material
you dont need to cut the clamps :)
just seems on my machine when you need to clamp, there's not enough clearnace available
the widest is 48" that I use and the clamps are under the material and only stick out a litt
The clamps I have designed slide in the T slot so you can place them where you want
Jymmm, what town do you live in? (I want to look at hotel options for what dates are less expensive, if any)
or if you want to have an edge to place the material againest, there's not place to mount it.
SWPadnos: Tijana MehEko
I'm not sure I understand
ok - north, south, near the airport ???
BigJohnT: Ok, say you have raw stock and you want to maintain that 90 angle, what are you going to use to align up the material to the machine?
so we'll know where to drop the bombs
jymmm: I have some stop blocks that clamp to the 80/20 that I can remove after locking the material in place
fenn: drop em whereever YOUR GPS is currently pointing.
you could do the microscope thing.. if emc ever supports it
[03:00:12] <fenn> http://www.waterjets.org/waterjet_pictures_6.html
rotatekins.c could do it... if it took the rotation angle as a hal pin
I was born on Kodiak Island a long time agon
's getting late
* fenn jumps on the bedwagon
is the digitizing algorithm up to par? can it be used for proffesional cnc work?
in emc 2.2 there is a single primitive probing operation, G38.2 "straight probe". It can write the probed coordinates to a file. It is pretty basic.
In the development version, there are various improvements which can be used to create smart probing programs. http://axis.unpy.net/01194541183
jepler do u digitize urself?
nope, I don't have the equipment for it
a probe with 2 wires?
yes it could be as simple as that .. doesn't change the fact that I don't have one (nor anything I'm interesting in mapping out with a probe..)
jepler u a dev by any chance?
yes I am.
jepler any chance u can recomend a i/o card that can be used for 4 axis cnc and digitizing aswell as tool touch off?
my own machine is a simple parallel-port system, so any advice I give will not be based on actual experience.
ahhh i here paralel is way to slow for a big cnc.
yes, it is OK for step&direction motors with modest step rates, but not for high step rates or servo+encoder closed loop.
how close is that program in copying a part?
I believe that the probe information was gathered from a .04 inch grid .. but you can choose an appropriate grid for your part
can i put in a grid of .00001?
(that's a .04 inch grid on X and Y; the Z 'resolution' is roughly the distance moved in 1ms at the requested feed rate)
you could, but if you are doing a large area it would take a very long time.
ahhh wow.... nice work... Thankyou for doing all this.
the 'smartprobe' program is just an emc gcode programming, using our looping and computation extensions to gcode, so there is the possiblity of programming it to use a coarse grid where the part being measured is relatively smooth, and a fine grid where it has more features. but you'd have to work out the details yourself.
u mean like program it myself? lol
time to shut this down and walk the dog - tomrrow I start wiring motors!
lol good luck
this week's progress: http://jmkasunich.com/cgi-bin/blosxom/shoptask/pc-cased-and-mounted-12-14-07.html
anyone have a post proccessor for mastercam x2 and emc2?
why u laugh?
i wasn't aware there were a large population of mastercam users who also used emc
you might have a hard time finding one
not that i'm an authority of any kind
I think lerneaen_hydra uses mastercam
03cradek 07w_tool_length * 10emc2/src/Makefile: build maxkins
hopefully he'll read this and reply
and how hard can it be? it's just gcode
sorry was uhhh " buisy" lol
mastercam is a great piece of software
is anyone ever sellin a used mesa card?
not that I've ever seen
darn. im lookin for a cheap setup here.
their software looks great. but if I can't even find a price, I can't afford it
does anyone use modular vises
seems to me anonimasu maybe had worked on a post for mastercam... From what I hear it is pretty close to the fanuc post.
'lo, I'm afraid I don't use mastercam, I use edgecam
any one awake?
hi to all
hi fenn i'm tried this chat
my name is alessandro and i live in florence italy
is this a emc2 chat or is a simple chat ?
thank's and sorry for my bed english
I created a new config and only get the RTATI error when I do something like start the IRC
the only diff between the old and new that I know of is the splash screen time.
[Global Notice] Hi all! I am about to re-route a few of our European servers, expect there to be a few splits as I move things around. Thank you for using freenode and have a great day!
BigJohnT: if you start the latency test and do whatever you did to get the error, you should see the latency_max jump up
then you can figure out exactly what is causing the realtime delay
i need cheap computer parts...
anyone got any?
ok I'll give that a try at least it's not at start up any more... dunno if the 5 sec splash gives it time to get going or not
i've got a pile of crt monitors..
fenn any motherboards or parts?
where do u live at?
i had three banana boxes full of motherboards but they were useless so i gave them to a craft lady
thats a long drive lol
Gamma-X: see if there's a freecycle in your area
what the hell is freecycle lol
its basically a mailing list where people offer junk they are getting rid of
I got a lat max of 23086 one time when I fired up irc
the rest of the time it's < 12000
anyone got an extra i/o card theyd wanna trade for?
not me, i'm too cheap for that stuff, so i'm making my own :\
well, something like that
BigJohnT: try running some more complicated programs
fenn..... ur making ur own... lol
like firefox, openoffice, soemthing with graphics, etc
and remember the max_latency (that is the worst case you need to work with..)
fenn u have any information on that i may be interested
isnt there a common x driver that causes realtime delays? (nv or something)
I've had problems with nv and nvidia both. with nvidia cards, only vesa works safely
Gamma-X: this is the basic idea: http://fennetic.net/machines/index.php?motherchip
I think it's a nvidia card
I put another card in but what a mess trying to get it to work
fenn that looks like a lot lol
cradek: how do you change the driver to vesa?
I think the magic to reconfigure a new video card is 'dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg'
Gamma-X: it's a distributed modular system, rather than a single big card with fancy wires going to the encoders
cradek: from the terminal?
you can also just edit xorg.conf and change nv to vesa
whoa I just got a 39248 lat max
run a couple copies of 'glxgears' to see it really go up
fenn: where do I start looking for xorg.conf
a search turns up nothing
anyone got a spare breakout board?
jmkasunich: got it thanks
in Linux, most system configuration stuff is somewhere in the /etc tree
ok good to know
and wrote that down in my linux book LOL
so just change the Driver "nv" to "vesa" in the Section "Device" Identifier "NVIDIA Corporation NV10DDR [GeForce 256 DDR]"
that part I'm less sure about, but that sounds reasonable
save the original file with another name just in case
ok thanks and backing up now
and you'll need "sudo" to edit it....
got that on my desktop someone here gave me the tip a while back
here goes nothing!
I wonder if there is a parts i/o card kit i can buy
I still get 32000 when loading IRC
Gamma-X: exactly what are you trying to do
and now the screen is 1024
jmkasunich im tryin to somehow build a i/o anything pci card... i want one for cheap!
you mean like the mesa?
$199 _IS_ cheap!
or sumthing that can take its place. with same performance
gawd, I thought I was a fscking cheapskate
no matter how many times you ask here you won't get a mesa for less than the purchase price. there are no used mesa cards to buy. it's too specialized.
well, there's also the pluto-servo, but...
cradek lol im jewish... what can i say
just got my mesa 5i20 and 7i33T - anyone have sucess with these?
sure, lots of people have
I actually get better lat max with the nv driver...
BigJohnT: the problem must be elsewhere in your system then
did you check bios settings for power saving options that can be shut off?
yea, got all that stuff off
other than starting gaim the lat max is < 10000
brb breakfast calls
that sounds nice
even when you run things like glxgears?
maybe it's a network card problem
I assume he's tried a browser, which should generate at least as much net traffic
but you know what they say about assuming....
breakfast sounds like a good idea
being new to the linux OS, I am in pursuit for info on my setup for the Mesa Cards; I plan on running 3 of the 4 axis to Advance Motion Control BLDC PWM Servo Amps
I also have a Pixie P100 card I was going to use to *test* my used amps and motors before connecting to the Mesa
Karl1: you should start by reading the user manual, specifically the HAL sections
then take a look at the m5i20 sample config files
I guess that's what I was overwelmed with, configuring something with the limited expirience I have with the OS
even the Mesa Documents seem squirley as far as loading the firmware controls - I was hoping for a plug and pray solution at first, but am not shy about this venture
"If loadFpga is 1 (the default) the driver will load the FPGA configuration on startup. " -- emc documentation, http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/hal_drivers.html#r1_5
Thx jepler, now I am getting some direction - I guess I come to the right place!
ok i'm back for a bit
what is glxgears
yes, I did some net surfing etc and dloading files
glxgears is a program that uses opengl to display some rotating gears. you can run it by opening a terminal and typing "glxgear".
if your system's graphics card is incompatible with realtime, this will often show the problem immediately
ok can I open another terminal while the lat test is running?
ok it's running and lat max is < 12000
you can do just about anything except run emc while the latency test is running -- and you *should* do anything you will ever do while running emc while running the latency test.
is there a way to tell the cpu not to give up so much time when emc is running?
Another is I am concerned with: I will be buying an new PC, most likely Dual core - is that an issue with EMC? just don't load the 64bit version of UBUNTU?
downloading files does not change the lat max at all :( I'm on dialup
BigJohnT: on a system that is good for RT, the CPU meter can show 100% without triggering the "unexpected realtime delay" message, because the "real time" part of emc gets its chance to run before anything else in the system.
Karl1: I believe that SWPadnos has successfully used emc on core 2 machines, but I am not aware of the details. If you want to use the precompiled version of emc, you have to install 32-bit ubuntu dapper, not any other version.
I think I have another video card at the shop I might try
otherwise I'll not join the chat while it's running
one note about the error it should at least pause the file execution in emc when it comes up... if you were just going for the stop and you get it I might get confused and let my stepper run too far...
that's why you should have a physical big red button; you should never try to click a mouse button or press a key to stop emc in an emergency situation.
there's no guarantee that pressing a key will make emc stop in a timely fashion, even aside from the problem that this pop-up might appear just at the wrong moment and stop the 'esc' key from having its normal meaning in axis.
I know that but the pop up should at least pause the program if you not watching the screen and you get the error...
Is an AMD or an Intel motherboard better for use with emc
I personally have AMD but both AMD and Intel processors and motherboards are being used for emc.
my win machine which I bought piece by piece is AMD but the hand me down from my shop is Intel...
how can you tell what processor you have in Linux?
anyone usin a vfd in here?
System > Preferences > Hardware Information (unless they renamed the option in the version of ubuntu I'm on now)
though in the terminal, "cat /proc/cpuinfo" may give you additional useful information
that's not on the ubuntu menu
OK, then use "cat" in the terminal
ok looks like it's a genuineintel 2409.126 MHz cpu
with 512 KB cache
BigJohnT are u using a vfd/
on my plasma cutter?
BigJohnT: you might want to try a different IRC client, if gaim always gives you error - try xchat instead, for example
ok I'll try that
Gamma-X: on my CNC plasma cutter?
BigJohnT didnt know it was a plasma cutter lol
I use vfd's at the shop for work projects
well got xchat loaded so I'll see if I can connect with it :)
Bigjohnt: how do u like teh vfd? can u use urs for a vfd aswell as 3 phase converter
rotatekins.c accepting a hal input for the amount of rotation: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/rotatekins.png
BigJohnT: remember the microscope thing from last night?
they aligned the machine to the workpiece in software, lined up to scratch marks with a microscope mounted to the tool
like a setup scope for a mill?
yeah to help with setup
fenn: a better solution would put rotation in the interpreter, since you get a position jump when you rotate with your solution
but you can get away with it if you remember to go to the origin before rotating
yeah but this is so easy
yeah I understand
it would work with a jogwheel
then you can just pretend you have a big rotary table
you could just rotate by EmcPose->c then
you mean something like this http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/products/products.cfm?categoryID=5873
well, you could do it with an edge finder
was that the guy making ice cream cone molds?
ok I'm a little foggy on it I was celebrating the first running of my plasma table... :)
anyone using antek power supplies?
not me, but they look nice
I like the regulated 5v and 12v that is on board
does emc2 have an auto key to set the tool length if using a tool setter?
with EMC2, many things are possible, but not many of the features have a simple button to activate them
so you can do tool length setting, but I think you need to have a subroutine in the G-code file that gets called at each tool change (or something like that)
SWPadnos: HAWT DAMN!!!!!!
finally found em
SWPadnos: Not sure if these are the same, but 130VAC/DC replacement LED bulbs http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-YELLOW-HQ-LED-LAMP-BULB-130V-AC-DC_W0QQitemZ150131687152QQihZ005QQcategoryZ42898QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m118
SWPadnos: That's what I was talking about before finding the 22mm ones
they even have proximity switches for $10
SWPadnos and how would I go about doing that? lol
some variation of holeprobe.ngc I would guess
[17:32:39] <BigJohnT> http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/personnel/kramer/pubs/RS274NGC_3.web/RS274NGC_33a.html#1013738
no, there's a tool length setting G-code file that comes with EMC2.2
digi-key has replacement lamps as well
SWPadnos: LED replacement bulbs?
I think so anyway
SWPadnos: Cool, in a pinch.
SWPadnos: But now can you understnad why I was so adiment about these?
err - sure. it's because you're a jerk ;)
SWPadnos: I'm going to bahamas tomorrow, till March!
they have 10-packs of 16mm lights for $9.98
Jymmm, cool, then I can stay at your place while I'm "fixing" your router :)
SWPadnos: I think I want the 22m ones
yeah, they're probably better, and easieer to replace the bulbs
SWPadnos: Cool, you can bird sit!
oh right. I'll be at the Hilton
SWPadnos: Nah, fuck you... you'll bird sit and you'll LIKE it!
nah. I'll sit on the birds, *THEN* I'll like it!
SWPadnos: You'll like bebe.... he just wants his head scratched
I'm sure machine work goes faster when there aren't any parakeets around (that think they're eagles)
SWPadnos: Cockatiels and parrots
Only Haley looks like an Eagle
actually, I think it was a cockatiel that thought it was an eagle (a friend had a little birrd that thought it was a big bird)
SWPadnos: All these guys act like it =)
Bebe WILL let you he doens't approve of you not paying attnetion to him NOW NOW NOW
better photo http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-COMPACT-PILOT-LIGHT-BLUE-22MM-LED-BULB-IS-AC-DC_W0QQitemZ150137819603QQihZ005QQcategoryZ42898QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
I wonder if these are full sized covers? http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-20-PCS-TOGGLE-SWITCH-WATERPROOF-COVERS_W0QQitemZ150192015148QQihZ005QQcategoryZ26211QQcmdZViewItem
they look a tad small
here's your contactor, unless you need to use 12V for the controls: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-CN-PBC252-24V-CONTACTOR-24V-coil-25-35amp-2p_W0QQitemZ150098074205QQihZ005QQcategoryZ42911QQcmdZViewItem
in which case it's this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-AC-HEATING-DP-CONTACTOR-12V-DC-coil-40-50amp-3p_W0QQitemZ150174492145QQihZ005QQcategoryZ42895QQcmdZViewItem
3phase is a wee bit overkill =)
no, you want to switch both legs of the 1-phase, and the third contact gives you an aux output that can be used for a pilot light or something
I'd REALLY liek to use SSE if I can.
sure. though I find the click of a contactor reassuring - I know it's trying to do something :)
estop button http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-NIB-EMERGENCY-PUSHBUTTON-TWIST-RELEASED-MAINTAINED_W0QQitemZ150188851403QQihZ005QQcategoryZ14883QQcmdZViewItem
That's what the idiot lights are for =)
yep - that button looks like it has teh right action
I wonder if it's any good in terms of quality
we'll find out
cheapest I've found so far.
SWPadnos: heres the noise maker http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-BUZZER-16MM-BLACK-24VAC-DC_W0QQitemZ150189223647QQihZ005QQcategoryZ100184QQcmdZViewItem
I saw that :)
I'd use this instead of a 3-position toggle: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-22-mm-Selector-Switch-3-Position-Maintained-2-NO_W0QQitemZ150187185551QQihZ005QQcategoryZ58166QQcmdZViewItem
knobs are harder to bump into the wrong position
SWPadnos: It's NO, not NC though
how do you figure that?
left position (switch #1 closed) = auto - the switch goes in series with the EMC relay output
middle position = off
right position (switch #2 closed) = on, switch goes across the series connection of EMC relay and contacts from #1, which turns on the motor
assuming it's ON/OFF/ON
could be ON/ON/OFF it is only $5
no, I don't think so
the center position is unlikely to activate either switch
if you look at the bottom photo, you can see that it's two sets of contacts that are identical, just one on either side
[18:11:59] <Jymmm> http://ecatalog.squared.com/fulldetail.cfm?partnumber=ZB2BE101
it seems that there is a limit to max pluto-step.stepgen.M.position-cmd: 2²° this is a sofware or hardware limit in the pluto FPGA?
SWPadnos: I sent em an email to confirm - it's ebay, NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING
in the USC this limit is 2³¹
position-cmd or encoder feedback counts?
well the two is equal
no they're not
Damnit SWPadnos, if I use 22m control for A/B, now I can't use toggle switches! fscker!
position-cmd is supposed to be in user units, I think
until you get a error the two is equal
whereas feedback counts (not position) is in encoder ticks
feedback position is not the same as feedback counts
what are your user units?
mm, inch, ...?
in usc and pluto the feedback is emulated
ok, and do you have a table that's 2^20 mm long? (ie, 1 km or so)
(answer: no :) )
no but if I need rotate an axis?
there is a 2^20 or 2^21 limit in the pluto driver, but it's for step rate, not position
as far as I can see by taking a quick look at the code
when this cmd value reach this 2^20 the fb change the start crazy changes in the signal and i get errors
well, I'd have to look at the code a bit more to see that, but unfortunately I'm about to leave for a bit
I'm having a hard time understanding what you are describing
the position command and feedback values are floating point - I would be astonished if anything weird happens when they hit the integer value 2^20
no -there's a max delta value in pluto_step.comp that's at the 2^20 limit
but this weird thing happens
danielbr: "weird thing" has zero information content
I haven't looked at exactly how all the masks and shifts are used though
ok just informing a thing i see today
Jymmm, you can swap those contact blocks around, so you could get some NO and NC-type switches, and make yourself a rotary with one NO and one NC, or two NC ...
anyway, gotta run. bbl
Hmmm, i wish there was a way to have the panel lamps BLINK when it AUTO mode
I just asking if this max value can be setted to something like 2³¹ like the USC
WHAT MAX VALUE?!?
would it kill you to actually include a hal pin name or a variable name?
it seems that there is a limit to max pluto-step.stepgen.M.position-cmd: 2²°
* jmkasunich looks at the code
when pluto-step.stepgen.M.position-cmd exceeds 2^20, what happens?
If I plan on having a ON/OFF/AUTO switch, and an idiot light go go with it. Do you think the lmap being ON/OFF/BLINK would be a good thing?
(I'm not seeing any code that would imply a limit, but I don't have a pluto card, so I can't actually run it)
the fb pin change the signal and start change the value like a crazy
can you capture a halscope image and post it somewhere?
Note: In this release of emc2, this driver is alpha-quality and not
suitable for use on production machines.
probably want position-cmd, position-fb, counts
not now until this is another city
until next week
ok i know this jeff
in that case it is unlikely that anyone can help until next week
i just asking if this can be easy to change
I can say that there should not be a 2^20 limit - if there is it is probably a bug
I'm curious what units you are using though
2^20 is 1 million of whatever unit - that is a lot of movement
2^20 degrees is about 2700 revolutions
the value that cause problem is degrees * steps/degrees
you said "pluto-step.stepgen.M.position-cmd: 2²°"
pluto-step.stepgen.M.position-cmd is in degrees isn't it?
my error the problem is counts
* jmkasunich looks at the code again
damn jepler, you don't like comments so much do you? ;-)
what is the function "extend()"?
its invoked, but not defined
extend() is in pluto_common.h
it performs extension from the short width value transmitted from the fpga to the 32 bit value used for feedback counts
thats kind of what I expected
and probably the most likely place for this issue to be coming from
ah: it works on 'long's which are 32 bits .. one bit is sign, 11 bits are the fractional part. that leaves 20 whole bits for position
isn't count an integer, and extend an integer function?
F bits are fractional
oh, this is the stepgen accumulator value?
ah, in that case, it needs to be long-long
that might fix it
so you have at least 32 good bits after you drop the fractional part
unfortunately I can't test pluto_step or pluto_servo (both of which would be affected by this change) at the present time.
no pluto board handy?
nor anything useful to hook it up to
e.g., I'd need to test that pluto_servo still reads encoders properly
with encoders, the counts are integers, no fractional part, right?
yay! i just got called in for overtime!.
500 bucks just for tomorow
jepler: I can let you know when I hook up the lathe next time
not a bad windfall
I can think of a few ways to test it
sim-encoder -> parport -> pluto (the latter link is actual hardware)
actually I guess I have the diagnostic mode where I loop back some digital outputs onto the first encoder
but that can only step at 1kHz, so it'll take awhile to get to any position which might be affected by the change
er, "step" isn't the right term
well, I guess the first step would be to see if danielbr's report can be duplicated
pluto can step pretty quick, right?
I suppose it would behave the same way with or without any actual motor
yeah, step systems with no fb don't need hardware
well now all I need is a system with working realtime
(well I've got one, i'd just have to take it apart a bit to test pluto)
if I had a pluto I'd take a stab at it
I have verified that this compiles, but not that it fixes anything: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/long-long-for-pluto.patch
jepler: yell if you need any hardware :-)
jepler: another question,i tried hook a software stepgen to some dout in pluto and I got very bad looking steps in osciloscope
this is normal?
stepgen generates steps in a fast thread
I bet pluto dig in and out are being updated in the slow thread
pluto's outputs are updated in the servo-thread. If you add stepgen to servo-thread you will get very low step rates but it should be OK. If you add stepgen to base-thread, you get unusable outputs on the step/direction pins
the EPP interface isn't really fast enought to update that stuff in the fast thread
ok so the max is 1khz
if you want to do software stepping with the pluto digital outs, yes
if you are using software stepping, use a plain parport instead - it can be updated from the fast thread
i tried replace this rotatory channel with software stepgen but got this problem
also the software stepgen have a nice option velocity input cmd
i think all you know about my video in the wiki http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RH_H7jgQQY
danielbr: I've seen the video, didn't know it was your machine
that is using pluto?
no using USC
the pluto is just some test
that machine is a retrofit we did
the proprietary control was bad
problem with huge steppers
replaced by ac servos
got my last email?
yup, I did :)
sounds reasonable to me.. no need to make all your work public
ok so i'll try
danielbr: it has time..
what kind of signal would an i/o card need to recieve when using a tool touch probe? electric wise?
wouldn't that depend on the io card?
hmmm don't have one of those but it should be the same as any other input voltage
Hello gang. On the 'Experimental' level, is there any USB support at all in the HAL? I've had a silly-that-just-might-work idea lately.
BigJohnT im assuming 5v?
yea do a google on joystick
not realtime, but there is some userspace stuff for all kinds of input devices
if your other inputs are that I'd assume that
finboy google handwheel too
cradek: I know it's almost blasphemous in terms of machine control, but Logitech has mice that supposedly do 3200dpi sampling with 1khz axis reports... I'm wonderin if there'd be a way to use something like that as an 'encoder' of sorts.
cradek, how slow can userspace/usb be, worst case (assuming RT doesn't take up 100% cpu)
lerneaen_hydra: USB is 1msec packet rate
lerneaen_hydra: processes running in userspace can fail to run for an infinite amount of time, but in practice pauses are usually much shorter than that
so 1000 updates/second in the best case
so there's no real guarantee that anything will happen at all? not even soft-rt?
lerneaen_hydra: does USB work with soft-rt?
* alex_joni doesn't know
I don't have any idea
I just assumed it was soft-rt
does anyone here have a tool touch off sensor?
lerneaen_hydra: My reasoning behind is is that since a mouse does some of its own 'processing' it'll know where it is even if it skips a report and the next set of coordinates will still be accurate.
gamma you hooking a tool touch off sensor up
FinboySlick, true, though you won't know for sure when the data reported by the mouse is available to realtime programs
though mostly it will be acceptable, seeing as how the joystick functionality seems to work
I'd be rather cautious when controlling iron with non-rt based controls though
lerneaen_hydra: My goal would be some sort of a way to cheaply close the loop for, say, a stepper drive.
EMC could notice that it skipped a step here and there, etc.
oh, I see
FinboySlick: jmkasunich's standard response to that.... "What do you expected emc to do if it does miss a step?
JymmmEMC: Repeat it?
when it misses a single step it will* miss all consecutive steps after that too, untill the end of the move. *maybe not all moves, like moves on a machine without acceleration
but in general I've found that when a motor stalls it stalls completely
and it's very clear when that happens
a bit too clear sometimes
that's been my experiance when it stalls it quits'
lerneaen_hydra: I've found that sometimes when it does stall, the motor keeps going.
and I can fix it if I catch it RIGHT THEN
what do you mean by keeps going?
lerneaen_hydra: It stalls (I hear it), then keeps chugging thru the rest of the gcode, just usually 1/2" off from where X (or y) thinks it should be.
JymmmEMC, hmm, interesting
jymmm what kind of machine?
24" x 24" x 6"
does it stall because of overloading or too much speed?
my 48 x 48 plasma cutter will stall if I get the accel up too high during direction reversing
but i'm going 400IPM...
once I got the accel correct no more stalling
jymmm what are you using to drive the gantry?>
These are good, just made them.... http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,,FOOD_9936_31593,00.html
if I made a touch probe would emc2 be able to auto sense the length of the probe device?
if you have a place on the table that you want to define as Z=0 (or Z=1 or whatever), then one way to do that is to probe down towards that location then use the resulting probe value to calculate a tool length for G43.1.
jepler good idea
LawrenceG: Have you updated the wiring diagram for your system by chance? Got a newer PDF I could look ar?
LawrenceG: I'm still stuck at which BOB to get, but I still need to order the other controls/lamps and stuck for soem ideas on the design.
no problem... I'll stick the pdf file somewhere
I can email it to you....
LawrenceG: I found these neat LED lamps I will be using... http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-COMPACT-PILOT-LIGHT-22MM-BLUE-LED-AC-DC_W0QQitemZ150191506961QQihZ005QQcategoryZ42898QQcmdZViewItem
LawrenceG: lens colors available are red grn, blu, yel, and wht
those look very nice
LawrenceG: and they're LED's
various voltages up to 220VAC
I see that guy has contactors, slectors etc
you could set up your control power circuit using 12,24,120 volts...
what voltage do you drive your steppers with 48volts?
LawrenceG: Yeah, well all the lights will be the same look/feel, but can have various voltages for the bulbs
you should get one email direct and one from usendit or something like that
LawrenceG: here's teh replacement bulbs... http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-HQ-BLUE-LED-LAMP-BULB-24V-AC-DC_W0QQitemZ150189224738QQihZ005QQcategoryZ42898QQcmdZViewItem
LawrenceG: here's the blue pilot lamp disaseembled.... http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-COMPACT-PILOT-LIGHT-BLUE-22MM-LED-BULB-IS-AC-DC_W0QQitemZ150137819603QQihZ005QQcategoryZ42898QQcmdZViewItem
I thought so. No bulbs to replace all the time.
maybe not oil tight, but much cheaper for hobby grade
yes... whole assembly is only $1 more than bare bulb
22mm is a nice size too
35.4mm == 1"
looks like a two-liter cap
good night all
fenn: yeah, seems about right
when I calculated the SCALE it came out to 4000 and the OUTPUT_SCALE = 1.000 but when testing the SCALE needed to be 3970 to get perfect travel
is this common to have to tweek the scale
you might have some black lash problems
this is a timing belt application
I'm thinking it was not as perfect of pitch diameter as stated of the timing belt pulleys
that might be
if they are... then diameter shouldn't be it
yes xl belts
[23:29:31] <BigJohnT> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/P1010049.jpg
I'm not loosing steps as I can go in and out with a dial indicator on the frame and return to zero after moving .800 and back
1" travel dial indicator
at 4000 it would move .101 for a commanded move of .100
I dont have a clue then
it really works slick, I can get 390 IPM from it
at 3970 it moves .1000 for a command of .1000
that's less than one percent error, which is pretty good
anyway, what matters most is repeatability
I think the combination of three pulleys and two belts just has some not quite perfect dimensions...
xl belts are designed for power transmission, not motion control
B John: you put some time in building that
I can run it out yea I know LOL
yea uploading some more pics in a sec
use GT (round tooth) for zero backlash, and they're probably tighter control on the dimensions
didn't see gt belts
er, maybe it's called "powergrip" or something
the point is the teeth are round
i've seen them
they are better for motion control...
would .0005 even matter for plasma cutting?
+- 0.010 is good
i'm getting +- 0.001 now with the xl belts
here is the belt connection and end block
[23:43:35] <BigJohnT> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/P1010052.jpg
the belt gripper
[23:43:49] <BigJohnT> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/P1010053.jpg
I know why I didn't pick the GT belts now they are MM
that doesn't matter for CNC
McMaster Carr didn't have them in belting by the foot so that swayed me the most.
my thinking at the time was to get an even division of steps to the inch
LawrenceG: got it thanks, will look at it tonight.