along the lines of the uboot q's earlier...anyone know the recipe to backup the current running uboot?
wrong place n/m
[Global Notice] Hi all, Just a quick line to let you know that we are expecting slight disturbance on some of our US routes between 0400 and 0600 hours pacific time (GMT-8) while some emergency maintenance is being performed. While it is a two hour window disruptions should only last for about 10minutes at some point during said window. Expect turbulence. Thank you for using freenode and have a great day!
does emc2 support any of the tools made by centroid like a digitizer/probe?
but it's hard to say without more details
hmmm. well..... would I havwe to program it myself? lol
good news is, you can ;)
eric_U yeah but i have no idea how to lol
that could be a problem
emc2 supports probing and tool length sensing
I know nothing about centroid's hardware if that's what you're asking
cradek u know of those 2 devices? like where i can buy them?
cradek well id like to get both of those things but i dont care if its centroid.
I'm sure there are many options
the simplest probe you can make yourself, or you can spend $thousands
same for a length sensor I suppose
but emc2 doesn't care what you use as long as you get a signal into the machine that says when the thing touches
cradek got any plans for one of them? lol
no, ask google
[04:22:20] <cradek> http://www.google.com/search?q=homemade+digitizing+probe
[04:23:55] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Touch_Probe
if I create a digitizer what kind of file would emc2 save it as?
cradek: you awake?
not this early
in 3h+ maybe
do you have a clue about robot trajectory planning?
like some of the math behind it?
what do you need?
I just stumbled on some older notes: http://eneas.juve.ro/~juve/emc/tp.txt
alex_joni: as much as possible :)
alex_joni: im trying to get my head into the math
alex_joni: im pondering about the actual planning
You guys will be happy to know I bought a book about basic electronics to minimize my simpler questions.
I mean.. buying books is always nice
Yeah I know, some people are crack heads, me, I love books lol
books becoma a bad habit /me is addicted
So I'm not alone in my sickness
With a nick like yours I shoulda known ;D
The wife wants to go do karaoke tonight but I want to come home and play with my driver chip and book.
I wonder if I should fake sick
you can always sing to it
it == driver :D
or maybe make it sing..
I doesnt appreciate my voice.
After many attempts in the past to memorize ohm's law I finally had an epiphany and I acually understand it now, no need to memorize. But going through the laws over the last couple days I have some situations where the law lies. I'll have to ask you guys about those things.
I don't have time this morning but some things seems contradictory (sp?)
See yall later
I just wing it most of the time..
skunkworks_: still working on that restore?
I am to the point that everyone should 'get buy' until the new drives are in.
It will be a little hectic today :)
* skunkworks_ should run and get some breakfast
ohm's law is a lie?
zomg my universe just broke.
ohms law never lies
except on ac
I know, there are just cases where it's less true
like on ac stuff..
phhh - ohms law. Bah - everything I do requires E=MC^2
next day air is great.. order stuff yesterday.. get it today.. (only $70) :)
now if only I could order stuff yesterday - today..
hmm - maybe not 'SHIPPER TENDERED THE SHIPMENT TO UPS AFTER THE LATEST PICKUP TIME FOR THE REQUESTED SERVICE. A DAY DELAY IS LIKELY. '
skunkworks_: indeed nice
skunkworks_: what did you buy?
I needed some replacement hard drives for a server.. Nothing really neat
oops - got to love ups updates 'In Transit - On Time'
an you too jepler
to me - it looked like a bunch of you disconnected and reconnected.. you where the scragler.
(last one to reconnect)
my client says there was a netsplit with about 30 people on your side of it
what's up ray?
did broadband finally reach you?
Just being a bum this morning.
sorry.. strike that .. saw your IP
Nope. Less than a mile away
but a hill between.
well.. hopefully it'll get there
Been thinking about a teathered weather balloon.
steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
... well, 1 mile of CAT 5 isn't that expensive....
oh, and a couple of repeaters
Years ago I did have a 2 mile long phone line laying on the ground.
I have installed over 1/4 mile of CAT 5 in the new office space and still have a bunch to go
steve_stallings: fiber optics are quite cheap nowadays
with utp converters on each end..
I put almost that much into a bar up here a couple years ago.
yes, and fiber cares a lot less about the weather
I wonder how it stands up to wild things stomping on it.
rayh: the thick fiber has no issues with that
I saw one which got caught on a train waggon ones.. it got dragged behind the train, and broke off about 20 telephone posts
the thick cable was still in one piece, although the fibers inside were busted
I checked a local supplier.. about 0.3 EUR / m
so roughly .5$
that's still 1k$ for a mile (including converters), but without installing it
[14:04:40] <alex_joni> http://www.mondoplast.ro/index.php?pg=ft&id=1680
30$ for a converter: http://www.mondoplast.ro/index.php?pg=ft&id=3136
I guess dialup is a price I pay for living in the wilderness.
rayh: i've been thinking about a tethered balloon
you could make a savonius turbine shaped balloon that would generate enough power to transmit a signal
like a windmill
There you go.
a repeater in the sky.
I'm having some issues moving from 2.1.x to 2.2.2
optimum: go on :)
mostly it's a custom hal file with jogwheels and some buttons that doesn't seem to be valid in 2.2.2
what's the error?
optimum: btw, how's goeteborg this time a year?
HAL: ERROR: pin 'halui.feed-override.scale' not found, control_box.hal:22: pin 'halui.spindle.start' not found, control_box.hal:10: pin 'halui.program.resume' does not exist. Also it's complaining about some linkpp's I've got, is the syntax for net the same as linkpp?
a lot warmer than usual, its above zero almost all the time
oops, wrong nick
optimum is now known as lerneaen_hydra
there we are
lerneaen_hydra: heh :)
you didn't start halui as it seems
do you have HALUI = halui in the ini?
and for net you need a name: net name pin1 pin2 pin3 pin4 ...
oops, I don't think the stepconf-generated ini had halui loaded
lerneaen_hydra: nope it won't
would it be easiest to stick with linkpp then?
for this to work with stepconf, you'll have to add 'loadusr halui -ini /path/to/ini' in your custom.hal
lerneaen_hydra: no.. just add 'net fooname' instead of 'linkpp'
as it is now I've just used stepconf to generate a working .ini and pinout file, and then moved the new bits to the old file
* alex_joni wonders why
what would the best idea be, keep the old file and modify it to make it work or use stepconf and add an additional hal file for the jogwheel/button box?
I'd go with the first
but archive it first :D
yeah of course :)
hmm, was there some new syntax for loading multiple signals to one pin? control_box.hal:15: pin 'halui.mode.auto' was already linked
no.. just use net
I am using net
[14:47:23] <lerneaen_hydra> http://pastebin.ca/815946
lerneaen_hydra: on the second incantation you don't need to put the pin again
net runsignal parport.0.pin-12-in-not halui.program.resume
net runsignal halui.mode.auto
ah, ok. it worked with 2.1.x for some reason
I think it actually failed
but you didn't notice..
it's odd to link it to mode.auto too..
I didn't code that myself, someone here said that it's good to do that :)
I can't say I know a lot about HAL
haha: #linksp Xphase-A parport.0.pin-02-out <-- WTF?
yeah, found that in the file once, I have no idea how it appeared
hmm it's still complaining about line 15
already linked apparently
can you repastebin?
could stepconf have made a net with that name?
* alex_joni doesn't know and is a bit too busy to look
[15:01:38] <lerneaen_hydra> http://pastebin.ca/815956
the first bit is the custom HAL code, the second is the one made by stepconf
ah.. you're linking 2 signals to the same pin
that's not allowed
just remove the lines with halui.mode.auto
that won't work anyways (imnsho) :P
hmm alright :)
hmm well now it loads at least
damn, still getting an unexpected realtime delay error :/
steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[15:11:58] <cradek> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA5qCIB0j6k
I had not seen this one before. more of our splash screen...
for a homemade machine made from MDF it looks like it works really well
nice - I haven't seen that one either.
this one's called "ow, my start capacitor" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q_q53wsyHU
I have seen that one.. :)
I like the comments.
hmm ok, two problems remain, the first is the default size of the limits region, which is very small, the second is that the maximum jog speed is 60mm/min, while the axis's max speed is 780, any ideas?
lerneaen_hydra: the various units settings in your ini file are probably wrong
hm, it seems consistant
[15:26:24] <lerneaen_hydra> http://pastebin.ca/815980
the .ini is generated with stepconf, the hal files are some unholy mixture of stepconf and manual editing
your limits are 8mm?
8x8x4mm seems like an unusually small mill
that came from stepconf
I haven't set any values for limits
oh maybe those were the defaults on the screen and you didn't change them?
yep they're visible in stepconf
default is 8
possibly the same value as for inch based systems?
yeah, just silly defaults for mm
but you left them there :-)
what's the easiest way to disable limits? remove the lines in the ini?
the only think you can do is set them to large numbers
but I can't imagine a case where I would not want soft limits
yeah I'm going to add hardware limit switches later on
any idea as to the limit of 60mm/s when jogging?
until then, just jog to a known locatin for a home position
then you can have use soft limits
yes: MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 1.00
looks like you want 13
fenn_ is now known as fenn
anyone wanna build one of these? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnNWfJveZDI
Some may remember this doc (The one for the driver chip I bought) http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fusers.ece.utexas.edu%2F~valvano%2FDatasheets%2FNTE1857.pdf&ei=FQRjR9GsJJjces_mqUw&usg=AFQjCNGxbnNfynr7ILQnr0xJZZoFiFrFqg&sig2=ZnUpQ64JjpmgwF-geyiOzQ
fenn I note he has a harness!
I'm trying to set pin 6 but I'm not sure what 'base drive current is'
page 5 tells you
It tells me what the base currrent supplied to each lower transistors out is?
Since the chip will only handle 350ma I'm assuming that's the 'base drive current'
If I reverse the polarity will I kill the chip?
decide what current you wish to set within its capabilty and calculate the resistor pin 6 to ground
that's what I'm trying to do archivist but I need the valuelbs
value of lbs*
top calc gives that
for some reason everytime I do it I come out with some ridiculously low number
.0077 ohms or some crap
Im getting no current through the circuit right now so I'm thinking I should set that pin and then try to reverse my polarity because my powers upply is'nt mark + -
I'm getting 15V at the V+ pin but no current. The pc is putting 3V on the step and direction pins..
ew never try reversing supplies
without KNOWING + and -
you will let the smoke out the device
I used an led and when it lit up I assumed the wire that the long lead was touching was +
do you have a meter
what does that tell you about + and -
and what is the voltage you are using
Well in my mind I figured the power would only flow from + to - and the led would show me that
I also had to use 9 resistors to get the measly 35 ohms I needed but the resistors were only 1/2 watt so I ran to sets parallel. This seems odd to me but thats what I read I should do.
I have a feeling I'm not understand the use of resistors.
Because I never saw that many resistors on a circuit of any kind
Not the way I have them
But if the resistors I have are rated at 1/2 wat and my circuit is using 4.2 watts dont I have to use 9 resistors?
Just ran parallel to keep ohms where they need to be?
if all the current is through the resistor yes, series parallel to get the value/wattage
The set of resistors I'm talking about is right after the supply and right before the V+ pin on my chip
Cant I leave out the huge bank of resistors i have now and just set the bias pin correctly to limit current? And if I did that I would still need 4.2 watts worth wouldn't I?
there should be no series R in the supply
dogfishguzzler: what are you talking about?
and the bias fo 350ma is 37 ohms at 12v
But I cant just use a 40 ohm resistor thats rated for a half watt can I?
it is a bias resistor it does not have the full current through it
When I get done with this project I'm buying a driver board. No more of this build my own experimentation.
Too much to learn and everytime I think I understand something it turns out I don't
dogfishguzzler i jsut chimed in but what were u experimenting with??
trying to get this nte1857 driver chip to drive a small printer motor.
I just removed all the resistors and just put one 33ohm from pin 6 to ground. I still got nothing.
im tryin to figure out what the best i/o card is for the money
The xylotec ones look good for cheap three axis
$155 aint bad
i want to have 4 axis with some other things like digitizer and auto tool setter
and i need to control a vfd with it.
gamma-x: servos or steppers?
anilam servos from 1989
are you planning to read the encoders on the pc?
Thanks archivist, I gotta go but I appreciate your ahelp.
how are you getting the encoder signals to emc? parallel port?
seb_kuzminsky i was going with a i/o card.
possibly a mesa?
good night all
seb_kuzminsky any ideas?
im retro fitting a supermax.
i tried reading encoders over the parallel port and found it too slow
reasonable resolution is a couple of hundred edges per rev, which tops your rpms out around 1K or 2K
most servos want to spin much faster, so you end up holding back on your pulse duty cycle, which kills performance
i concluded that you need to offload encoder reading from the pc
seb wich is done how?
something like an FPGA board or a dedicated microcontroller, connected via PCI or parallel port usually
some are using a pluto card
seb_kuzminsky: were you able to approach the theoretical limit of 2/base_period when reading encoders on the parport?
you send it pulse duty cycles for all your axis, it sends you accumulated encoder counts
archivist pluto card?
then emc closes the pid loop on the pc and sends new pulse duty cycles
if my cnc machine comes with glass scales should they be used with emc2?
fenn: heh, i dont have a machine yet, all i've done is poke around with little hal circuits
i was reading the parallel port pins at about 40 KHz, which is enough for 20 KHz or so quadrature edges
which isnt nearly enough for good servo performance
Gamma-X: i think it should be possible to use glass scales with emc2 but it won't be easy or straightforward (and may involve writing a new PID module)
gamma-x: what's the output from the glass scales?
but maybe you could do nested PID loops in hal
one for position, one for velocity (glass scale feeds position, tacho feeds velocity loop)
seb_kuzminsky im not sure i get the machine at my house next week, i know its a supermax ycm-18.
i bet you can use the standard pid component, but you might need a new "encoder" module to provide feedback for the pid
whats a pid?
and ive heard i can put new encoders on
I think there are two problems with glass scales for motor feedback: 1) they don't all have fast enough position update rates and 2) they aren't attached to the motor
SWPadnos: I think you've got that wrong..
SWPadnos: they have fast update rates
swpadnos: 1 sounds disastrous, 2 isnt bad if there's low backlash
new expensive scales will be fast enough, used older cheaper scales won't be
the cheaper scales are fast too
or might not be
there's a spec.
fast enough for a servo? maybe maybe not. it depends on the interface. not all scales have quadrature output
anything with serial output is unlikely to be fast enough
SWPadnos: stop assuming.
they have quadrature output.
but I want to make an ass of u and me :)
if they have quad output then gamma-x should be fine, no need to write new components
depends on your motor
the encoders on my motor have much finer resolution than almost any linear encoder
but these are servos from 1989 lol
yep that's why they have the tacho's
is the spec for the chinese scales..
eric_U hmmm. that would be surprising
scales go down to 1 um or finer these days
swpadnos: nice! :-)
if it worked without tachometers they wouldn't have them
that's cause they were using velocity feedback
velocity feedback to the drive..
anonimasu, when I talk about the sped, it's the speed at which you can get updates to the controller, not the speed at which it will track
and linear scales to the control
SWPadnos: as they have quadrature output
back in the late 80's everything had a tacho, now almost nothing does
SWPadnos: I guess that's not really a problem..
are you quite certain that all glass scales manufactured in the last 30-40 years have quadrature output?
the cheap chineese ones I looked at have quadrature output
I'm not, but I'm no expert either
"sino" or whatever
expensive ones require a converter
the heidenhain scales I have on the big mill is ~
I think that's actually analog output that's used fora pseudo-resolver. I think you get terrible resolution if you durectly use that for quadrature (with signal conditioning, of course)
gah - I can't spell when I have so much stuff in front of the kwyboard
still they arent sampled in quadrature..
Not sure, but I think the 1um ones are using analog with converter
swpadnos: hey wait... 1 um isnt all that incredible actually
it is for an led :)
but most linear encoders are 10 um or more
256 line rotary encoder, 20 tpi lead screw, 1:1 motor:leadscrew coupling, quadrature decoding
INPUT X, Y, Z - .0001 INCH / .01 MM
that can be done from my cnc machine
1.25 um linear resolution
that help at all?
256 lines isn't even that fancy
my motors have either 2048 or 4096 lines
20 tpi is maybe coarser than normal, but not an order of magnitude
eric_U: right, that sounds more normal for good servos
.2 is most common
so that's .1 um on eric's motors (ASSuMEing the other approximations above are ballpark)
geckos need 256 lines or so
256 seems like the bare-bones minimum
[23:29:39] <SWPadnos> http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=9359307&PMT4NO=34544457
250-500 lines are recommended
I have 1000-line encoders, and my (little) testing seems to work fine
1.27 um resolution
that's a nice encoder
(on the encoder swpadnos linked)
oh well, i gotta go, ttyl
it says 1 micron resolution, so the inches are being fudged
there used to be encoders with resolution in inches, but they are gone now
about time we started using metric
long since time
Jimmy Carter tried and failed
so did nasa
I thought the military did too, but I'm pretty sure they weren't serious
it's hard to get more conservative then that
err then the military..
long time horizons
which seems strange
metric hardware still more expensive from most U.S. industrial suppliers
I'm testing my plasma cutter and I get STEPGEN: Channel 0: The requested maximum velocity of 26600 steps/sec is too high.
I'm trying to get the input counts right
I think people just got too mired in conversions that they lost sight of the fact that metric is a hell of a lot easier to deal with
this reminds me of someone: http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/508327376.html
yes, they tried to teach us metric with conversions
BigJohnT, you need to reduce the BASE_PERIOD (ie, speed it up), or reduce the maximum velocity settings for each offending axis
stupid approach, just go cold turnkey
like they did with soft drinks
SWPadnos: That did the trick. I can rapid at 300 IPM without missing a beat
Now for 400 IPM
yea it's way cool
I did get a RAPTI error do you know anything about that
didn't seem to cause a problem...
anyone use the digitizing in emc2?
not yet but I want to someday
BigJohnT, it depends on which error you're getting
I think there's one that isn't too critical, and one that is (and I don't remember the specifics of either)
ok I'll have to wait till it come up again
Gamma-X, yes, some people probe/digitize with EMC2
I just got a joint 2 following error
in fact, there were recently some improvements made so more intelligent probing algorithms can be used in a G-code program
SWPadnos any body have any bad reviews of it?
you end up with a file that has lines with I think 9 numbers on them
hmm plaid drill press - what an excellent idea
you could do them in NFL team colors even
gotta run. bbl
On max_velocity does machine units per second mean 0.001" per second just a little confused
it means units per second
machine units means inch or mm
if you 've configured the machine for mm, it's mm/sec
if you've configured it for inches, it's inches/sec
so 375 IPM is equal to 375/60=6.25 machine units per second