ew small chip
small motors lol
ok for playing and learning
I don't want to start messing with emc indepth until I know what it is Im trying to control. Ive been programming cnc equipment for 15 years I'm familiar with Gcode but steppers and servos were just always something that did the work.
Yes archivist, this above all else is an eductational venture.
then will be ok, looks like normal bipolar drive
I can't imagine how thrill I would be if I were ever able to contribute something to EMC. I love open source, too bad the whole world is'nt opensource
bipolar and two phase mode are basically the same thing in this case
its bridge output to reverse the coils
Yeah I found the chip by trying to buy an L293
you have small bipolar steppers?
Out of floppy drives eric :D
usually those are unipolar
And two from a printer.
They are four wires.
Can four wires ever be unipolar?
just be careful you dont pull too much current through the chip
we made a floppy bot one time
no, not enough windings
Yeah it's an $11 chip, I will be pissed if I fry one.
wow, l297/298 cheaper than that
from jameco the combo is $9, from mouser, $11
I know but I made an impulse buy. The shipping was more than the chips everywhere online. I could get IC's for $2 but the shipping was $10 so I went with a local company.
worth it then
If I had $200 worth of stuff to buy then I'd do it through jamco
I've gotta order from Jameco for my l297/8, but I've been buying drives off of ebay right and left, my wife is starting to get worried about me
I'm hoping after xmas I'll have some extra money for this project at least a grand or so to build something substatial.
lol eric you know what your looking at though.
Me; I don't know what I need or how to use it. Thats why I really want to get the basics first, before I even waste my time or money.
* archivist notes the motors I have just got are 8 wire
Two 9v batteries and 2dpst switchs to mock an H bridge ?
What I did is buy some useless stuff on ebay, then I started reading the manuals before I bought anything.
Damned EMC moving a floppy motor around first try is why I have this bug!
LOL thats my line eric!
skinny, use a current limiting resistor
I have a lot of good stuff in the basement now
I like to trust myself into a hobby that way
but sometimes I look through my storage room and don't even remember buying some of that stuff
* Dogfishguzzler thinks ohh well I got this stuff now I might as well figure out how to use it
You can send some here, I have room :D
in the UK a 3A 40V stepper driver module is £28 , with microstepping and current control at the moment
I thought miscrostepping was a function of the driver?
By disproportionate, minute changes in the coils currents?
So you can get board and motor for 28#'s?
no motor not included
that still aint bad.
Not from what I've been pricing.
[00:18:11] <archivist> http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/en-gb/dept_181.html
Which aint alot.
not far from me, but got my stuff a few weeks ago at the model engineer exhibition
lol, gotta love the brits, even though they dig metric you know they gotta throw in an inch measurement every now and then.
yanks havnt learnt metric yet
I learned my trade from a bunch of limey's, they rock
Well two limeys and agerman an two yanks, as you put it lol
We had a diverse shop
Even had a pollock once. I swear on my sould he turned a carbide endmill black on aluminum.
swear on my soul*
Lol dude was funny.
Didnt last long though. He could barely speak english or make stuff.
25 years of woodworking was his excuse, I belived him.
anyway orf home now
On Route Fast
* Dogfishguzzler smells bullshit
* Dogfishguzzler pulls pantlegs up.
So how many of you guys are machinists, how many are programmers (Not counting fanuc, yasnak etc etc), how many are both?
Greetings all - EMC and Linux Novice here - Was hoping for some guidance with the 2.2.2 update
THe update downloaded no problem - I ham having trouble finding the folder to run the SRC commands - I typed "CD SRC " and folder was not found
what are you updating from?
2.2.1 - Had just installed that 2 days earlier
following directions on the wiki>
[01:09:36] <Ziegler> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?InstallingUpdates
I was following the WIKI directions to the T - then I got this "can't find folder error
that was the link you were following?
Hmmm... not that Wiki - I used the CVS update - perhaps thats my problem?
are you using ubuntu?
bmg: did you install directly from the livecd you downloaded? 2.2.1?
give that link a look and see if that gives you what you want
did the Ubuntu download first then loaded EMC2 seperately from the web
Will do - THanks for the help
I did not use the Live CD - could not get it to work
you install EMC from source, or did you install it from a package?
do you use the script to install emc2?
I never use the live cd either... but only on occasion to I install from source.
I thought it was package - Typed several lines of script in terminal to execute the update - it updated the files over a 5 min period
I usually use a package
heh... any of those lines "make install" ?
for the original install - I followed the alternate method - loaded unbuntu 6.06 first then went to linuxcnc for the package
I do not recall a "make install"
alright try this and see if it works for you: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?InstallingUpdates
will do - keeping irc up in backgroiund - I will drop back after trying
uhh... seems like that page is missing a bit since I last looked... skunkworks what changed?
heh - I don't know
OK - looks like I took a long path on http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2
I followed 3.2. Getting the source with CVS
why do it from cvs?
I then followed the "track new feature development " code
hmmm.... Back to my first comment - Linux and EMC novice )
right... follow my link and do it from a package then
I actually got every thing to download, I just can't get into the directory to execute the commands
use the scrip on line number 2 of your link
then follow steps found here: http://linuxcnc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=4&lang=en
Ok - that looks like the original method I downloaded EMC with
start at "step 1"
ifnore the downloading of the ISO
well in your case...
Ok - already changed the permission and executed - its requesting a session from MIT now
start at step 2
THis is the way I originally downloaded - Never thought to do it over - seemed too obvious for me )
well... if you originally used this method to install 2.2.1... then http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?InstallingUpdates
is all it takes to update it to 2.2.2
I did that and no updates for EMC2 are shown. I hope thats not because I loaded frm CVS
ok - hold on. go into the synapec package manager.
THanks Ziegler. I just checked the version with "dpkg -l emc2" and it reported 2.2.2 so it looks like the update took
ok - you got it then
THanks to you both - Now on to getting my machine running
I was acually begging some threaded rod from work today. I asked the boss if he'd ever heard of the 'enhanced machine controller' (fully expecting a no) He says yeah. Then proceeds to predict my quiting to start my own business, wtf? Is EMC that hardcore? Can it help with my ED or insomnia?
Actually it's only added to my insomnia and I wish I had ED so I could focus on something besides that sweet honey that takes out the mail for the biz across the way.
I guess the question is can you guys tolerate me while I learn?
and, is it possible that I may at one day acually give back....
memorize the manuals, and then you can give back by answering stupid questions by people like me
like you? lol
How bout like me.
Memorization doesnt work for me I smoke too much pot for that. If I don't understand it then I can speak with confidence about it.
If I don't* understand it
Then I can't* speak
i think you got it right the first time
lol fenn, screw you buddy
I can neither confirm nor deny that I agree with fenn
Your moma teach you to pick on ignorant people?
You too Eric, this is terrible.
nah i was just born that way
The both of you making fun of the retarded kid.
I'm a very mean person, just ask anyone
Obviously eric lol
Your bith assholes if you ask me lol
one way to make yourself more pleasant is to moderate your use of the word 'lol'
one must use rofl
I know it's a no no but Im so full of lol's I can't help it.
you leave the CHUBBY kid alone... get a twinky or 2 for yourself sweetie...
* Dogfishguzzler wonders how dmess knew he was a fat slob.
I'ma not going to answer that
I mean rofl
i am slightly upset that the hardinge HC series doesn't have crossslide stops
crystal ball... your balding fast buddy... do something about that...
toastydeath: I take it you learned from experience?
i am slightly upset that the hardinge ... is now MADE in CHINA
i mean i knew it didn't, i just haven't had cause to use it
Night all, fun as always
stay straight... or go HIGH
ooh neat. http://www.fotothing.com/CAONgallery/photo/9e62959f5230b6745b40b5285739b62c/
any docs for vismach? ( not on wiki :(
Guest404 is now known as skunkworks__
alex_joni:have you ever used the remote desktop in ubuntu?
jepler:does emc have screw mapping
yes it does..
I don't exactly know how it works though..
jlmjvm: yes but I have never used it and the documentation is sparse to say the least. COMP_FILE and COMP_FILE_TYPE as described here: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:%5BAXIS%5D-Section
i was looking for that,thought i had seen something about it
is there a sample comp file anywhere
I don't know of one
jlmjvm: if you get stuck - I would talk to jmkasunich some time tonight if he is on. He is the one that did a lot of work on it>
skunkworks, stupid boss didnt pay ISP and telco on time
so Im recovering from internet cold turkey
I think I would go crazy.. (my wife thinks I am addicted. She may be right)
I see bo^dick is still around
I have not been on #electronics for a while.
I got some drivers and bits at the model engineer exhibition so I can finally attack my lathe
3a 30v microstepping driver for £29
I got a funny look when I said 4 please (his complete stock)
I think I had all his stepper stock of the size I wanted as well
skunkworks:thanks for the info
jlmjvm: no problem
archivist: you should be all set :)
making bits time (and finding a power supply)
archivist: did you see this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_OUNLruaVQ
[15:37:55] <skunkworks__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og6V-nS2dig
[15:38:08] <skunkworks__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyNRMWubpXk
^ last one is cradeks project.
[15:39:08] <archivist> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyNRMWubpXk
/me copies to self
skunkworks:what was that last vid
bah a bit short and dark
[15:41:25] <archivist> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og6V-nS2dig
yah - we already yelled at cradek about that.
that is a small mill that cradek has (maxnc) that he is making into a 5 axis machine. that is the B axis
didn't help that I screwed up the aspec ratio when I rotated it.
that 1 got my attention
heh and you need a tripod
I just wanted to show the machine configuration I was working on... it worked for that
I'll definitely make better videos when it's done
please do,that was very cool
seems like there is no hobby 5 axis hardware or software. I don't know which causes which
if we make software available, maybe the hardware will follow. it's not really that hard to do.
having a machine will help me be motivated to make emc work well with it...
Ive got a screw cutting job, which is motivating my lathe hack job
i think im gonna look into making a trunion for my mill
that is what I would like to make.
they work good
one of those scaled up to boss size would be very handy
thats a nice looking little unit
Don't forget the video jepler made http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWKYQUj5AOs
that trunion should have the C axis lower, so the workpiece is near the center of A rotation
otherwise rotating A uses up all the machine's Y travel
the haas trunion i was thinking about is like that
a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a2
i have a problem
after we compiled the kernel and rtai with new gcc we recived an error message during setting up emc2.2.1, that emcmodule.cc cannot find cmath...
what's the actual error?
For C++ programs, <cmath> is a standard header file. If it is not available, it probably means your C++ compiler installation is incomplete or damaged. You can perform a simple standalone test of your C++ compiler to see whether this works or not: echo "#include <cmath>" > test.cc; g++ -c test.cc
On an ubuntu 6.06 system with g++ 4.0.3, this test succeeds (produces no output). If it prints an error, then your C++ compiler installation is incomplete or damaged.
we tried it and it works with gcc but not with g++
thx for suggesting us this now we know why
it dosent look that fast :)
but it might be the size of the machine also
Hi, I have a problem with the live CD install and am looking for advice
what is the problem?
The install seems to go fine, but after a few hours of running, the machine hangs
you have only 256MB RAM?
some people report that the install doesn't complete with only 256MB, even though the system would run fine once installed
is there a way I can check the completeness of the install?
probably installing the bootloader is one of the final steps .. If it doesn't complete 100% I don't think you have a usable system.
it boots and runs after the install (without the CD)?
Latency test runs fine, 13000ns max
then it's not ram. I think you have a hardware problem.
If I just run off of the CD, it does not hang.
heat problems like bad fans or loose heat sinks sometimes cause hangs after some time
I have cleaned off my head sinks and the fans look to be running full speed
oh I misunderstood the problem description -- I thought you meant that the install took hours, then hung before finishing. sorry.
[19:44:53] <anonimasu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttZJzauH6CU&feature=related
Sorry. No, EMC2 appears to run fine, I can run through the face plate G-Code example.
does it matter whether you're running any particular program? or does it hang even if you leave it at the log-in screen?
I have not tried the log-in screen only. But if I just log in and leave the system monitor (6% CPU load) running, it still hangs
at the initial grub boot menu (which you may have to hit ESC to see) you can pick memtest. I'd run that overnight
I guessed heat may be the problem, the system ran win NT fine for years though.
Ok, I started memtest this morning to run all day. Last night it ran for two hours with no problems.
(only 29% completed last night though)
29% in two hours?
it should run through 256MB pretty fast
Yeah, it takes forever.
what kind of machine is this?
AMD 1.1Ghz, vintage 2000 or so. 256 mb of ram. AGP video.
ok, sounds fine. I'm a little surprised you could install with so little ram though.
I recently ran emc on a 1GHz AMD Duron from about the same time. More ram, though. I wasn't satisfied with the performance, but it was stable.
(my latency was much higher than yours, around 26000 if I remember correctly)
Is it safe to say that power-save features like ACPI are not the problem
This is an older machine a friend gave me, is there an off the shelf machine that is recommended?
you should turn that stuff off in your bios. there is no kernel support for it in the realtime kernel anyway.
Ok, I have it off in the BIOS. I just was not sure what issues it creates.
common wisdom is that fast P3 machines are still very good candidates. Both mine are P3-1000 systems
I currently run emc on a AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2600+ built from parts
I don't know anything about new systems - I don't buy them anymore since used machines are so fast now
Best to hit Craig's list or something like that? Or is there an online vendor (who has good deals?)
I saw someone mention retrobox.com
(I haven't used them)
Cool, thanks. The consensus is that I should let memtest complete and if it passes ok, then there is probably just something else wrong with the hardware?
it's sure easy to suspect the hardware since many of us are running exactly the same software. that does not make it definitive though of course.
Are there some system logs I could be inspecting? Running Top was not helpful. The system hung with max CPU UT of 2.6%.
my machine that runs that kernel stays up for weeks at a time
That is what I am looking for. I don't want to be 6 hours into a part and have to restart.
you could switch it to the text console and disable screen blanking with 'setterm -blank 0 -powersave off -powerdown 0' and see if the kernel displays any messages before it completely dies.
(in case you don't know how: press ctrl-alt-f1 to switch to a text console)
Ok, thanks for the help. It does not sound like I am doing anything obviously wrong. I will probably fiddle with the machine a bit longer and then start looking on craig's list.
hope you get it going
yes, best of luck
come back to chat with us anytime
was he tlaking about lockups?
JymmmEMC: yeah sounds like it
Hmmm, I havne't made much of it, but my box has been locking up too for the last couple of months at random. Usually I still have ktbd fucntionalitym, but lose mouse clicks and have to resrart X to get it back.
you may need a reboot - it seems your keyboard is screwed up
No, multiple reboots, still happens
oh, now it seems fixed :)
we saw keyboard errors just then
archivist dont confuse kybd and operator errors
just giving you the benefit of the doubt there
SWPadnos:did you get a nvidia 7300 pci express to work with emc?
can anyone recomend a simple cad-cam software that I can use to make front panels for electronics equipment?
I want to engrave, as well as cut complex holes in panels like D-sub's and XLR connectors.
do you have autocad?
No, I have nothing at the moment.
hoping there is an easy linux package that would be my entire solution.
cam programs are never really cheap..
even the cheap ones :p
you're not the only one who hopes that
Yea, I noticed that about cam programs.
I love mastercam but I could never afford it
im buying alibre + the cam package once it gets to the next version
brlcad is a freebee there are a few others
there's also gcam
I have not used it
or sheetcam(but that's not exactly free)
I think there's a cam page on our wiki. you should check it out
it does engraving and pocketing and stuff
I'll check out some of these sugguestoins.
I tried gcam for a little bit but got very frustrated with it.
it is new, maybe the developer would like your feedback or help
sheet cam looks cool.
anonimasu: what new alibre version?
newer then 10?
im waiting for 10.8
alex_joni: as the cam stuff gets ironed out(and I get to try the demo)
the only thing I don't like about the CAM is that it's limited to one year afaik\
hm, limited to one year?
I didnt see that
I looked at their biggest package..
the one for 1.4k eur..
it dosent say anything about it..
whenever i see numbers now i think "i once had a dimension that was that value"
alex_joni: I think you are mistaking it for the visualmill stuff
alex_joni: the alibre design expert has "alibre cam"
which is something mecsoft has developed for them
same as visualmill but with alibre integration I guess.
hmm.. I can swear I saw it somewhere that it was only 1-year
but I can't find it now
maybe it was CAE that was limited
alex_joni: that was the visualmill..
before they went to v10
hm, it looks a bit limited though
* alex_joni likes the AXIS R16 migration in 10.x
heh.. and especially "Auto Recovery ensures work is never lost due to unexpected interruptions."
I dont know what that is?
well.. that means I don't lose stuff when it barfs and shutsdown :)
or you mean the ACIS stuff? (it's some import/export format for solids)
[21:55:04] <alex_joni> http://www.alibre.com/products/new-in-ad10.asp
<- couple of nice things there
I know what acis is
oops.. did I say AXIS?
I'm too caught up in emc :)
[23:10:16] <dmess> http://www.sonnyradio.com/F15.wmv
what happened to the other plane?
do they say?
did you get video??
Thought maybe I missed it.
Howdy dudes. I was reading the manual for the gecko g201 today and I'll be damned if it didn't sound as if I could drive a bipolar motor with one. Am I right?
It said any four wire motor.
One thing did occur to me though. I has a minimum voltage of 24V, what is your motor only wants 12?
you can only drive a bipolar motor with a gecko
they aren't meant for unipolar motors
the gecko limits current, and you're supposed to use 5-25x the motors rated voltage
I acually remember reading that somewhere now.
like in the manual? :)
* Dogfishguzzler kicks a can
You guys are great about having the docs I need to read. How would I go about figuring what I need in terms of torque?
For say a 24" X 36" router table?
there are a number of ways of approaching that
do you have the translation stages yet (ie, the XY table or gantry)
I do not. Should I build those first?
no, but if you already have them, then certain methods may be more applicable
I plan on a gantry type setup.
like "move the table and see how much force you need"
I think the cutting forces may not be so high with a router-type gantry, though I could be wrong
you should take a guess at the total mass of the moving gantry including the router
decide if you can afford ballscrews or if you'll use something like acme (so you know the screw efficiency)
decide on the acceleration you think you'll need (0.1-0.5G would be pretty high performace)
and go from there to calculate the torque you need on the screw
I guess I just need to read about how torque is measured then since oz/in does'nt mean anything to me at this point.
once you've done that, you decide on the speed you want to run (both for rapids and while cutting), and decide on gearing so a stepper will be in its constant power range
it's oz-in, not oz/in :)
don't confuse yourself by seeing a division sign
Yeah your right
(it's actually oz*in, but who's counting?)
When you say 'constant power range' do you mean like its powerband? The sweet spot where it's most effecient?
here's how to remember it: of course, 1 oz-in is the torque you get when 1 oz-force is applied at a radius of 1"
no, I mean constant power range
steppers are constant torque up to the "knee" of the speed/torque graph
then they become constant-power, ie torque drops off with speed
the holding torque is the peak they can generate, which is what you get up to the knee of the curve
I've read everything you guys have given me to read but I don't understand it all. I really want the gecko drive so I can play around with my printer steppers but I also want to get use out if with a router table. Most people tend to prefer the unipolar motors, why?
most power users prefer the bipolar (or unipolar wired as bipolar)
So the gecko drive would not be a bad investment?
how do you wire a unipolar motor as bipolar?
it seems to me you'd have to cut some coils to do that, since they're all commoned
ignore the center tap
I guess I should also look at the differences in performance and cost between the two types of motors.
that works for 6-wire motors, but not true unipolar (5-wire) types
since all 4 phases are commoned together
I say this because I offically 'asked' for one for xmas and I need to back that out if it's only gonna be a waste.
yes a 5 wire would need a hack
don't buy a unipolar motor
6 or 8 wire ok though
if you get some given to you, yay, but don't pay for onew
right on, I guess experimenters like them because you can homebrew driver boards for them easier?
I have 8 wire designed for series or parallel
it's easy to make an AVR or PIC board to drive a unioplar motor (I've done it)
Yeah thats what I hear, it's way easier to slap together a driver for a unipolar motor than a bipolar. But if I'm buying drives I should go with bipolar?
yes, or servos
Not ready for servos yet.
I've got some I could sell you pretty cheap - with encoders even
Although I want to get there.
really? How cheap?
$25 or so
big enough to do some work?
they're not ideal for a mill, but they should work for your router, and they'll certainly get you going with the whole servo thing
that sounds pretty good to me.
Skunk.. he does say the A2 fireballed immediatly...
that's continuous, not peak
Why wouldn't it be suitable for a mill, just out of curiousity.
they have a little bit of cogging (also called torque ripple)
Yeah, I read about that.
so the current:torque ratio isn't constant
Is it ever with a servo?
it's darned close with servos, that's what separates them from DC motors
So you how many of these boogers you got?
Yeah youve got a few.
Maybe I will take three or four.
that's why I have some to sell. I thought I'd use them fora robot project, but we're probably going with AC servos instead
what nema size are they
So Ill need ampliphers and thats it right?
and a pluto
okay what;s that?
brb need some time with google.
signals to the amps and counters for the encoders
So I would need one for each servo in addition to amps?
no it handles a number of channels
I just saw that
Up to four
Damn, a prelim search of amps is scary. $499
unless the sevo has the amp built in
SWPadnos woulda said that, I'm assuming..