jmkasunich: should I get a 2HP or 3HP vfd to drive my 2HP spindle?
hm they're out of stock on the 2HP
hm, wonder if I need a "line reactor"
[00:12:01] <cradek> http://web2.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/AC_Drives/GS2_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control)/GS2-23P0
cradek: what are you doing?
cradek: oh, you finally got a machine?
I've had it for some time
did you make your own breakout board?
it's running stock right now
no it's a cnc
just the spindle control went bye bye?
no I'd like a speed control without air required, and also to get rid of my rotary converter
[00:21:02] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/bridgeport/DSCN6324.JPG
I don't have a recent picture but this is from the night I got it in the garage
it has an 'air motor' to control the varispeed drive
currently it doesn't need air except when changing spindle speed
and it takes gcode directly?
I don't have constant shop air so i'd like to remove that requirement
yes it takes a variant of gcode
servoc even =)
yes is there some other way to move a machine that I haven't heard of? :-)
oh, cranks, I forgot
Of course... you do have a water wheel and a river near by, don't ya?
Then grab the neighbors garden hose =)
I will convert it to emc one of these days - it would work much better
but, so far I've been able to fix all its problems so it's working fine
you could toss in a micro atx board in there
I could put a small school bus in it
I think he could put a rack mount server in there
in the back cabinet probably (it has 3)
makes sense as it is a bridgeport..
Well, a nice 11" touch lcd in the front might be kinda cool
I have an 8"? screen for it
I don't think I'll have touch screen though
I think it really doesn't work very well
tkemc seems liek it would
isn't that what it was intended for?
I mean touch screens don't work very well in general
I don't think any of our guis were made with exactly touchscreens in mind
I think it depends on what they are, I've seen some VERY nice ones in POS applications
I think they would all work with varying degrees of success
between RE mgnt and thinking out-of-the-box could produce soem nice results
using the available space properly and some creative thinking for the UI - not necessarily "commonplace"
yes it would be interesting to see what someone could come up if making a UI just for a touch screen.
you would have to fight the instinct to make a regular gui except with everything big
I don't have a touch screen, or I might give it a shot.
it would be easy to do it badly I think.
that's where "thinking-out-of-the-box" comes into play
if you have ideas, write them down, it can't hurt
I think the biggest issue is what the tools are capabale of more than anything else.
like just touch -vs- tocuh and slide as example
I played with SWPadnos's touch screen with emc2 and axis.. It seemed usable.
skunkworks: barely though I bet
that was 2 years+ years ago.. so it may not be exactly as I remember
I've tried that a bit too. it was painful but usable
cradek: in axis, how much is really opengl? Just the 3d wire display?
everything in the preview window
and outside the preview window?
cradek: as example, would it me posisble to embed the preview window within tkemc?
'simple matter of programming'
you know what I mean
So - I had one of the drives of a raid 5 servers (older) it had maxtor 74.3 gb drives(about) in it. I bought some seagate 73.4 gb drives. guess what.. they where just a little bit smaller. would not work.
skunkworks: why would you buy the same size drives instead of much larger ones?
price and I didn't want to waste larger drives
80+ GB scsi drives are still expensive
skunkwork oh scsi, nm
actually those to drives where the same size in the add 74.3 and 74.3
sorry - typing too fast
so I boutght some fugitsu 74.5 drives in hopes that it is bigger ;)
I'm looking at getting a 3TB NAS box
right now on my desk I have 750gb sata drives
6 of them
*maybe* the 5 drive one so I can have a hot spare and the 4port gigbit switch in it
skunkworks: what are you tossing those in?
I am looking at a 5 drive external sata box
skunkworks: fuck sata box, get a nas box instead
uh huh.. I got the sata drives for $130 a piece
could not pass that up
that gives me 3tb with a spare
it has dual gig ports, usb a and b, and eSATA port
I THINK it has a serial port for UPS too, might be different model though
if they were half logs, 2 blocks would work, problem is I want something much less then that
ds2: pcv pipe cut in half
not sure how it would work on a mill unless you mean do surfacing with a ball endmill
JymmmEMC; I am trying to heat form a sheet of clear acrylic to something that looks like a PVC pipe peice
use a piece of pvc pipe cut in half as the mold
doesn't PVC melt before acrylic softens?
don't want it to bond
then use it as a positive, make a negative using bondo or something, then there ya go
I like that idea
could use metal pipe too
easier then trying to super offset a chunk of aluminum in a 4J chuck
I am trying to form something that would probally take a 6inch PVC pipe
so metal might be a bit clumsy to work with for this
or even a clay/cement draining pipe
JymmmEMC: who sells clay pipes around here?
oh, what about a terracota roof tile?
also, pre-mixed drywall spakel is cheap too =)
who sells terricotta roof tiles around here?
a roofing company?
plaster of paris works well
I suspect somebody does.
a pipe is nice since I need to be able to "predict" the final shape mathematically
circles are easy to calculate ;)
pvc and acrylic shouldnt bond...
not even after it is softened?
what temp are you taken the acylic to ?
softening temperature, don't have numbers yet
seen those bent/curved picture frames? that's essentially what I want
something like the curved stuff here, but in plastic:
[00:59:17] <ds2> http://www.wealthwood.com/crystal/picture_frames.htm
[00:59:29] <JymmmEMC> http://www.ludowicirooftile.com/index.cfm
[00:59:40] <JymmmEMC> http://www.abcsupply.com/Product/ProductTypeDetail.aspx?id=182
going to heat up the acrylic and then press it over the "form"
either that or I put the plastic on top of the form and stick it in the oven
I have never done it myself... but I was thinking working temps for something like that were 200-250 F
they probably have scraps the are broke
that's near that lumber place on monterey
Ziegler: I think at the high heat the pvc would contaminate the acrylic though
I think pvc is the same
need it to remain optically clear
going to use it as the basis for some christmas items, inspired by all the engraved glass versions out there
cool... sounds like a fun project
I have been wanting to do vac forming for awhile
vac forming is just to make the blank
the dollar store had some very nice LED powered stand to display plastic peices
fwiw... I just heated a small piece of plexi glass over a heat source and pressed it over a scrap of pvc I have laying around
it worked ok... but may not be what you want.
and did it retain its optical quality?
(burned my thumb... but the plexi glass has a nice finger print in it!)
that's easy to solve... good gloves and extra material as handle ;)
why press it over pvc, sorry I came late to this discussion
no reason to
the trick would be to avoid imprinting the surface finish of the mold onto the plexi
*nod* that's why bond is so attractive, can polish that very well
I just took a toarch to the plexi, and that worked too
I missed that part of the conversation
I used a paint stripper heat gun which takes a little concentration
tho it bubbled up in an area where I had it too long... but still clear... not milky when bent
seems like slapping it in the oven when the wife is out shopping would work well
put it in a frame
heat the kitchen oven up to 250 and let sit for 5 minute or so
hehe yeah eric
i have a link to someone who does large scale vacu-form and did his that way
but he used pvc just like Mattel did
he used a show vac right?
think I saw that
what is a show vac?
shop vac from hollywood
big vacumm cleaner
usually with a hose attached
anyone have a link?
[01:17:54] <ds2> http://www.shopvac.com/
err... I ment to the guy who does the vac forming
plenty of clones out there
this is a tiny one:
[01:18:37] <ds2> http://www.sci-spot.com/Mechanical/vacu.htm
ahh... "show" was a type eh
don't have the big one handy
[01:22:19] <eric_U> http://www.pteroworks.com/pteros.htm
sorry, just kidding
I'm pretty sure I saved it on my del.icio.us page, but I can't find it
cradek: still around?
the automation direct link was 404
oh, it must have only worked for me
if possible and affordable, I'd go up one size from the motor rating
it's only $50 more
were you browsing for a future project, or about to place an order?
well sometime soon I'll be able to convert to single phase
so I might order one soon
the reason I ask is that I probably have or can find a surplus one
(I collect VFDs it seems)
you have enough for all of us?
I'd be happy to buy one from you instead of them
eric_U: hard to say
I pick them up and bring them home, but rarely go to the trouble of testing them
jmasunich: you got some bare board VFDs?
I have the same problem
these look like they have a lot of neat features, like at-speed output, programmable acceleration, rs232/rs485 control, etc
but not that much with vfds
cradek: the ones I have are without manuals
they may or may not have some or all of those neet features
that makes it a little difficult
and manuals may or may not be available online
btw: it looks like a tilting head (B axis) should work fine on max
but I'm working on the design still
rotary between the Z slide and the head proper?
with pivot somewhere down around the tool
how much do the AD vfd's cost?
www.automationdirect.com, "AC Drives"
$289 for 3hp 1ph in 3ph out
ray recommends them
if its rated for 1ph in, the oversizing is less of an issue
DB built in too...
to be honest, unless you are really cheap (like me), those sound hard to beat
manuals, specs, and even a warranty
thank you for the advice, I'll buy one
do I need any of those accessories (line reactor)?
the 2 HP should be fine
probably no need for the line reactor
they are used for two things
1) reducing harmonics
2) limiting peak currents when small drives are used on large (stiff) power lines
a residential line is small by definition
DB kits - hard to day, depends on how much DB is in the drive, how fast you want to stop, and how much inertia you are stopping
I will eventually want to tap with it, but probably not right away
currently this coasts to a stop in 3-4? seconds (in high gear)
looks like the 2HP already containst the DB transistor ( and I think a resistor)
all you need to add is a beefier external resistor
I think the 3hp does too. resistor is $70 instead of $60
maybe I should get it since I will NOT have a real brake
well I do, but it's hand operated now (I use it to tighten/loosen the nut only)
it's a power resistor for pete sake
if you buy that retail your scrounging license will be revoked
do like what HAAS does, use a electric stove element instead ;)
Stove element is just NiChrome... makes sense
a lotcheaper then a proper power resistor
Just cut length to fit
from the way it looks, the Haas uses it intact
could even use one of those electric bbq starters
looks like the 2HP resistor is 100ohms 300 watts
cradek: just bring a ohm meter with ya to the repair shop =)
22P0 drive = 100 ohms
resistance goes down as heat goes up
or are you going to get the 3HP?
yeah it's in stock
impatient I see
it seems unlikely I'd regret getting 50% larger for a bit more money
assuming you can fit it in the box, you're probably right
* jmkasunich is cheap, sometimes I pinch pennies when I shouldn't
it's like 6" cube
70 ohms draws 1500 watts when connected across a 325V DC bus
they use a 300 watt resistor with a limited duty cycle
yeah it says 10%
if you're braking more than 10% of the time, you're doing something very wrong
If you ever were doing lots of tapped holes, you'd be reversing a lot
(twice per hole)
even when tapping you'd not be braking too large a percentage of the time
maybe 10 or 20% at the most
GE 1250 watt (approx 46 ohms) stove element $13.86
* jmkasunich is a fscking cheapskate
the electrical element is isolated from the outside of those right?
else many cooks with metal pans would be lying dead in kitchens all across America
well that's true.
is it just me, or is the idea of using a PC to run diesel fuel injectors just a little bizarre?
I disagree that it's only a little bizarre
I just did the math, and am surprized to see that one degree of timing at 3000 RPM is 55uS
so a system with 10uS or so latency could do pretty accurate timing
I hadn't noticed that my maxnc and sherline rotary tables are the same
I don't know how long injectors need to stay open, or how accurate that time needs to be
wonder if they both have a common ancestry or if sherline makes them
wouldn't be surprised if sherline makes them
I think the "on" time is extremely critical but I don't know what the numbers are
but I only know about gas engines
I suspect on time determines the amount of fuel delivered
the fuel rail is at a certain pressure all the time. on time is all you have
I also suspect that even with perfect hardware/software and timing, you'd need a dynamometer and months of testing to determine the settings for all possible engine operating points
lots of work for a one-off
yes you may get it to run, but running could well would be another story
how does an electronically injected diesel develop injection pressure anyway?
they can't be running the rail at 1000 psi, can they?
very high pressure fuel rail is my guess
where else would it come from?
A common rail injection system separates these two functions (generating pressure and injecting) by first storing fuel under high pressure in a central accumulator rail and then delivering it to the individual electronically-controlled injection valves (injectors). This ensures that incredibly high injection pressures (in some cases over 25,000 pounds per square inch) are available at all times.
(did that all make it through?)
[02:46:04] <jmkasunich> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Rail
1000+ bar = 14000 psi
yes, it came thru
"Some advanced common rail fuel systems perform as many as five injections per stroke"
bizarre, I wonder why
it says that a little fuel injected prior to the main injection can reduce noise and vibration
[02:49:51] <jmkasunich> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGwV9ueHcz4
probably more informative if I could hear it
no sound here either
maybe there isn't any - it has text
I mean this computer is incapable
according to the vid, post-injection is used to control exhaust gas temp and NOX emissions
sounds like rocket science to me
to adjust the carburetor on a lawnmower, run it at night, turn the screw in until it runs rough, then out until the muffler stops glowing red, done!
^^ my engine tuning knowledge
I've never been fond of infernal combustion engines
they are handy but not very good for us
hey folks, is it kosher to ask general cnc questions in here? spindle speeds, bits, etc?
for cutting pcbs, what speeds n feeds you all use?
if an emc specific discussion is going on its polite not to interrupt with off topic stuff, but if its quiet, you can talk about almost anything
cradek should be able to answer that, he does PCBs
couple others in here to too IIRC
cradek, you around?
doesn't it not really matter?
i'm trying to get the bit right, as well as the spindle speed and feedrate
spindle speed is probably as fast as you can go, unless you have a very high speed spindle
I'm getting all kinds of shutter as i try and make my cuts.
what are you parameters
my spindle is a variable speed dremel
what rpm and feed
running at around 15k
i've also tried 30k
teeny tiny engraving cutter?
do you know what the runout is? dremels aren't very precise
[03:13:58] <jmkasunich> http://timeguy.com/cradek/cnc/pcb
i've used a diamond tip pointed cutter
20K rpm, 20 inches/min, 60 degree carbide V tool
yeah, that's what i would expect
something in that ballpark
what is your feed rate
(that's from a page on cradek's site, dunno how current that info is)
20 inches per minute
my feed was all over. i tried very slow (5mm a sec) to about 1 inch per sec
slow seemed to work better
12 to 60 ipm
60 ipm is waaay too fast for brittle materials
yeah, 60 seems very fast
what kind of bit?
anything at all should work
from a ground HSS tool, to carbide, to real fancy diamond tools
"60 degree carbide V tool" is what cradek's webpage says
do you all go for tiny tiny pass depths?
(did you read that page yet?)
was gonna after i finished here
i don't machine pcbs, i play a machinist in real life
so i don't know what you're saying by small depths
I don't machine PCBs either
i've heard. 030 tossed around
for a depth of cut
you want to cut all the way through the copper on the first pass
the copper is only 0.001 or 0.002 thick
the board is only 0.060, so cutting 0.030 deep is a bit much ;-)
i guess they're using a thick board then
or whatever it is
Jessica: I suggest you look at that page, and then ask any more questions that you have
what hold down technique? that's pretty important
cradek might be back by then (he was here a little while ago)
ok, i'll give it a try.
chris used to use double sided carpet tape, now he has a vacuum table
double sided tape is so awesome
i know a guy who ran a 56" Bullard VTL
not a bad idea
who used to do double sided tape
10 square feet of double sided tape
i laughed so hard
sadly he was killed by a workpiece
he was doing 4x8 sheets of .5" plate steel
he only had one or two come loose
after crashing the tool into the table
apparently you can get a lot of holding force with that stuff
if you keep all your surfaces clean
the only detrement was heat
heat or lubricant would make it let go
very strong in shear
but it would start to chatter really bad before it went, so they just stopped it.
cradek- could you give me some info on the math transforms you are using for your 5-axis simulation? I would like to write a post for it. We could give you some 5-axis programs for it. The output of cam programs is usually tip location and tool vector direction.
crotchetyGuy: it's the simplest possible: BC define the tool vector, XYZ are the endpoint
remember earlier this evening, I said sometimes I'm too cheap for my own good?
I just proved it
two days ago, ordering a tooth belt pulley from McMaster
I need a 1/2" bore, they only have 1/4"
option 1, solid steel, $15
crotchetyGuy: B0 is tool point down, B90 C0 is tool pointing "right" (+X)
option 2, plastic with aluminum hub, 7/8" OD hub, $7
so of course I buy the cheap one
"I can bore the hub out to 1/2" no problem"
I can guess the problem here
except that the hub is only 7/8 outside the pulley
inside, it necks down to about 1/2 where the plastic is molded around it
anybody need a plastic pulley with no hub and a 1/2" (approx) hole in the middle?
The output from apt is of the form x,y,z,i,j,k- i,j,k being the tool vector. I would need a matrix transform to convert to actual angles- that's the part I'm not sure about.
ijk as in like, another point on the tool centerline?
I don't understand your tool vector representation
i,j,k is the direction of a vector in the x,y,z axis respectively, of course.
if it's a unit vector I think B = atan2(sqrt(i^2+j^2)/k) and C = atan2(j,i)
for example, in the 4-axis mill I use, the A axis is on the x-axis, and the tool vector is composed of i and j values, with k necessarily zero.
on the Mazak, how far are the home switches from the limit switch
eric_U: close enough that home stays tripped all the way into the limit
You have to think about the tool rotating around the part, not the part rotating.
eric_U: other than that, it doesn't matter
eric_U: (probably an inch or three)
that's gonna be about 12" for my case :)
the mazak at the workshop has home no more than an inch away, maybe 1/2"
eric_U: doesn't matter as long as you can't get on the "wrong" side of the home switch, because then emc doesn't know which way to go to home
crotchetyGuy: do you have enough information now or how else can I help?
cradek: I guess I can try, and give it to you to see what happens.
I will see what I can do..
you can run it yourself too, just get the w_tool_length cvs branch
it's very easy to see how the rotary axes work
but, I think I gave you the right transforms above (+- a pi or two)
err I meant B = atan2(sqrt(i^2+j^2),k) not /k of course
well that sure killed the discussion
deader 'n a coffin nail
did you see the person seeking the collected channel's knowledge of PCB milling?
problems probably stem from the use of a dremel
we gave them something... don't know if it would be called knowledge or not
I was thinking that too
yeah I don't know what runout is on a dremel.
depends on the year
some were good, some really bad
I cut .005 deep, ~20krpm, 20ipm
some effectively had a flexible shaft internal to the machine
the rule for those tools is spin it as fast as you possibly can and cut at .0005 per tooth
yeah, I took apart one that had a piece of what looked like aquarium hose
2 or three bearings is the big difference
bearing, motor, bearing, end of shaft, hose, hose, start of new shaft, bearing, inch of shaft, bearing, collet nose
oops, only one hose
they have really bad collets too don't they?
for many years in the late '80s and early '90s, they skipped one of the bearings they have now
if you are cutting paths .008 wide, small runout definitely helps
if the whole tool folds under sideload, the runout of the collet isn't really all that important
and if you are cutting 0.0005 per tooth
runout of 0.0005 means no load on one tooth and 0.0010 on the other
it's almost as if dremels aren't machine tool spindles
darn those dremel people!
they do sell a router base
I saw a youtube video of someone drilling (deep) holes in aluminum with a 1/8 drill in a dremel - couldn't believe it
lots of nice guitars made with dremels too
although they have really gone out of style among luthiers
I guess 300sfm at 1/8" is 10krpm...
you _can_ make a silk purse out of a sow's ear... it's just easier to use silkworms
so it's just as ridiculous to use a 1/8" drill in a bridgeport
luthiers are really really good at fixing guitars
you fix as you build
depends on how you define ridiculous
I have my 5axis design in mind ... need one more stepper and driver though
whatfer gearboxes are you going to use?
the rest is "simply" cutting up some aluminum and tapping "a few" holes in it
eric_U: little 4" rotary tables
I happen to have two of them (one is cnc already)
I gave in and ordered a 4 axis set of boards from pminmo
that's smart. waste of time to build your own (even though that's what I did)
index tables or contouring tables
whazza countouring table?
contouring tables can be run simultaniously with other axes
index tables don't have a worm drive
that's a matter of software
these are worm
but can't contour
ohhhh they're modded rotary tables
I don't understand
they're just rotary tables so far :-)
[04:20:14] <eric_U> http://cgi.ebay.com/Mini-Rotary-Table-fits-sherline-mill-mini-mills_W0QQitemZ260187349623QQihZ016QQcategoryZ104242QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
that doesn't look anything like them, but same idea
here is a real bargain
[04:21:05] <eric_U> http://cgi.ebay.com/Pneumatic-Indexing-Rotary-Table_W0QQitemZ150187760436QQihZ005QQcategoryZ41943QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
as long as you only need 36 divisions, then yes
and have a pneumatic control system
here you go
[04:22:28] <toastydeath> http://cgi.ebay.com/Moore-1440-Precision-Index-Rotary-Table_W0QQitemZ3819481251QQihZ020QQcategoryZ41943QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
sherline rotary table looks nice
wow, a bargain at 1/100 of the price
I should see if he wants to make me an offer on my Moore grinding heads
jig grinder spindles?
it was off a very special machine
I think I have 40, 60 and 80k spindles
is it a 60k, 80k, 100k, or 175k spindle?
yes, a jig grinder spindle
they replaced them with air bearing spindles
[04:25:47] <toastydeath> http://cgi.ebay.com/MOORE-3-JIG-GRINDER-SUPER-CLEAN_W0QQitemZ310002368381QQihZ021QQcategoryZ92150QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
they go on that.
no, it was a pretty special machine
uh, what special machine
the guys I got them from actually use jig grinders without the top on them
It's been a while since they explained it to me
do you remember what it did
I never saw it in it's full configuration.
no i meant what the machine was for
moore actually donated it to this lab
a universal measuring machine?
no, it was built as a grinder
parts of it are floated on oil
and maybe dampers
they have a batch of measuring machines converted to grinders
looks like the table off the jig bore grinder
moore offered any custom crap you wanted on your jig grinder
if you wanted interferometer axes, capstan drives, and hydrodynamic ways
they'd gladly charge you for it
I take it this was a very expensive machine
anything moore made was ridiculously pricey, so yeah, especially so of custom grinders
I have about 5 harmonic gearboxes, been thinking about making rotary axes out of some of those
never heard of a harmonic gearbox
they are used in robots
they don't look like they should work
there is a flexible cup with teeth, a rigid outer ring with matching teeth
and they are driven by an eccentric bearing inside the cup
[04:37:37] <eric_U> http://cgi.ebay.com/HARMONIC-DRIVE-HD-SYSTEMS-SF-20-100-Gear-Set-Used_W0QQitemZ150176441333QQihZ005QQcategoryZ42924QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
the thing on the bottom left appears to be complete
needs another bearing for the shaft
damn Y axis mounting plate only has about a 0.390 hole in it for the motor shaft
BORE IT OUT
LIKE A GANGSTAH
If only we knew someone with some machine tools
drill it out!
(it's just a clearance hole)
USE ION BEAM FIGURING
(brb in 20 years)
if only one of us would remember this conversation and travel back in time with an ion beam figuring machine
or if one of us had a spare 50k to buy one
we probably have to wait for them to show up on ebay
the cheapest i've seen one used is 19k
without the vacuum equipment
20 years isn't the time needed to get the machine, its the time needed for the machine to enlarge a 3/8" hole to 1/2"
fortunately a drill bit took it to 5/8" in considerably less time
or did it
where's the fun in that?
what if you were suddenly propelled to near the speed of light
and eons passed for the rest of us
sorta like when you push your worst enemy into a black hole
you never see them die
but from their perspective, they die immediately
drilling at near light speed makes elliptical holes
i once shot a man who was pushed into a black hole.
jmkasunich: depends on if the drill is on axis or normal to the direction of travel
is that how those square drill bits work?
toastydeath: if its
if its normal, you can just us a punch (even tho the part is 1/2" thick)
just get a big press
or a single stationary molecule
I need a reversing contactor
hydrogen for a 1/4" hole, helium for 1/2"
lead for 3"
do they make normally closed contactors?
usually reversing is done by two contactors side by side
one wired for forward, one for revers
energise one or the other
real reversing contactors have both electrical and mechanical interlocks to prevent turning both on at once
yeah, not quite what I want since both can be off
you're not running a motor?
for emergency stop
just rig some thermite up
over your servos
"FEED HOLD, NO SERIOUSLY"
large cast iron shrapnel is specifically the thing I seek to avoid with this system
but thanks for the helpful suggestion
it would be welded shut.
cast iron like they use in machine tools has approximately zero impact strength
I almost have room for a set of disk brakes in my x axis
going to 24vdc control really drives up the cost of a contactor
woot! I now have steppers attached to X and Y
and the belts fit and everything!
cradek, you around?
Jessica: apparently the answer is "as fast as your dremel can go, 0.0005 feed per rev"
so at 20,000 rpm that's about 5mm/sec
.0005 per tooth (.001 per rev)
the vee bits have two teeth?
i cant even picture that
depends what you call a tooth
this is what the manufacturer told me (I had to ask)
so looks like that is 500mm/min if you can get 20krpm
you should get dust and a clean looking cut
just tried a diamond 60 degree
got lousy results
if i do shallow cuts it just skitters over the copper.
and too deep, i trash my traces
i had been using toner-transfer to make my boards, but i thought this might get better results. doesn't seem to as of yet.
spindle runout is important, don't know how good the dremel is
I also don't know what "diamond 60 degree" means
w/ toner-transfer, i get .5mm traces and can build boards for smd devices. has anyone gotten those kind of results with a mill?
diamond as in carbon crystals? or diamond shaped?
jmk, like a glass etching bit
you saw the pic on cradek's page?
i'm doing 8-soic components
it's past midnight, so my brain is turned off, you'll need to convert that to mm
.01" wide is ~.5mm, right?
that would work...
"The IC pads are on a .05" spacing, the connector on the left is .1", and the connector on the right is 4mm"
I think I see the problem tho
"glass etching bit"
that is a grinding tool, not a cutting tool
[05:48:25] <jmkasunich> http://thinktink.com/stack/volumes/voli/store/mechmill.htm
do i want the bit that looks cut in half from the point back?
I think that is what cradek uses (he links to the vendor from his page, but not to a specific page)
$9.15 each, not real cheap, but not too bad
are you in the US?
at the moment
these are prototypesi'm building at the mo. I'm gonna use a fabber for the production runs
I'd give thinktink a call
ISTR they were very helpful for chris (cradek)
they can probably tell you if a dremel will work - if the runout is too severe it will just ruin the bit
i'm building a new mill that will use a trimrouter instead of the dremel.
usually the runout comes from the collet, so maybe try a different collet
but that project is on hold at the mo
ok, well, i'm off to be. tired of listening to the whine of the machine.
thanks for all of your help
time for sleep here too
you're welcome, and good luck
hey that ip's in bloomington
Can we use TkEMC Interface to control a lathe machin/
Does Emc provide the support of multi cycle thread cutting?
cnc_engineer: yes, and I'm not sure
multi cycle thread cutting?
you just mean the threading cycle.
and i thought it did.
Is there any difference in using of TkEMC or Axis to control a lathe?
just the gui
g76 will do multiple threading passes
all the cool kids use die heads for threading anyway
who uses threading cycles
I need to re-compile the emc2. For that, How can I get a complete package required (that should be downloable)?
[08:02:21] <fenn> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Preparing_Ubuntu_to_compile_emc2
you actually need to re-compile, and not just get the newest version right?
I need a recompilation package that can be downloaded once and could be installed many times without going online.
i think you are using the words wrong
do you want to modify the source code?
fenn: yes, I want to modify the source and recompile it, but want not to get online after a new installation of Ubuntu.
ok, you will need to download a bunch of packages then.. i'm looking for the page that describes how to do that
well obviously the info is in the wrong place :)
ok i cant find the instructions so i will make something up
`apt-get --print-uris build-dep emc2; apt-get --print-uris install build-essential` should give you a list of packages to download
you can redirect the output to a file with >>
then you can use wget -i to read the url's from the file and download them
then dpkg -i *.deb
i think some massaging of the file contents is necessary
i'm certain this was on the wiki before
this might help http://olympus.het.brown.edu/cgi-bin/dwww?type=text/plain&location=/usr/share/doc/apt-doc/offline.text.gz
well, it could be worse: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#without_an_internet_connection
in fact, it probably is worse, since i havent actually tried that :\
03tissf 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/ (Submakefile index.tmpl index_fr.tmpl): French translation
03tissf 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/ (mill_canned_fr.lyx main_fr.lyx tool_compensation_fr.lyx): French translation
03tissf 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/tool_compensation_fr.lyx: French transaltion previous is broken
03tissf 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/ (Submakefile index.tmpl index_fr.tmpl): French translation
03tissf 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/tool_compensation_fr.lyx: French translation
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/ (intro.lyx intro_fr.lyx): remove example that does not reflect the current structure of emc2's hal modules
03jepler 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/ (intro.lyx intro_fr.lyx): remove example that does not reflect the current structure of emc2's hal modules
wow, what a terrible "datasheet". http://www.kelinginc.net/KL-4030.pdf
apparently for a Pluse/Direction Stepper Driver
it reminds me of a website I've seen recently
Hi! I need some help with the EMC 2.2.1 installation
we use debian linux with rtai 3.3 cv
just installed gcc 3.4
as far as I know, emc 2.2 should work with that system.
emc2 asked for it, but we can't install emc2.2.1 because we recive the following error msg:
version.h not found by checking for linux headers
sorry kernel headers
have you built your realtime kernel and rtai already?
emc relies on the rtai-config script to know the correct location of the kernel headers. If it is wrong, you should be able to override it by specifying --with-kernel=headers=
yes, we are using emc2.1.x at the moment and that works
please use the site pastebin.ca to show me the ./configure commandline and output for both emc 2.1 and emc 2.2. Perhaps I will be able to spot the relevant difference.
here's what I get on my system (ubuntu 5.10): http://pastebin.ca/802714
ok emc 2.1 on hhtp:/pastebin.ca/802725
and we failed by configuring emc2.2.1
I still want to see the output that configure printed, even if it failed
are you sure that first pastebin is from emc 2.1? What does the file "VERSION" say?
a 0. was missing
ok, than you for checking
the 2.2.1 configuration is on http:/pastebin.ca/802728
in the old version, you specified this flag to configure: --with-rtai=/RTAI-3.3-cv
in the new version you did not specify this flag. This meant a different rtai-config script was used.
"Using /usr/bin/rtai-config as the RT signature" vs "Using /RTAI-3.3-cv/bin/rtai-config as the RT signature"
we overwrote the rtai config file rtai_cc="gcc-3.0"
in emc2.2 the --with-rtai configure flag was renamed to --with-realtime=
so for emc2.2 you should try ./configure --with-realtime=/RTAI-3.3-cv
it works now, now we have problems with the python version we hope we solve this problem
thanks for helping us
hi! if u r still there we have some other questions...
you would have never thought but we are beginners
just ask your questions .. someone here may be able to help you
we finished configuration but errors occured by the compiling
use pastebin to show us the errors.
we put the config results on http:/pastebi.ca/802754 and the error msg on http:/pastebi.ca/802757
what is the version of gcc (gcc -dumpversion)?
how is it possible, that the configuration found rtai moduls, but not rtai?
the emc2.2 build system assumes that "gcc -MM -MD -o test.d test.c" create dependency information for the file test.c in the output file test.d; your pastebin indicates that your version of gcc writes the dependency information to standard output instead.
specifically, it should work as shown here: http://pastebin.ca/index.php
if it doesn't, then you have to modify the DEP = line in src/Makefile to accomodate whatever your compiler needs
he means http://pastebin.ca/802779
emc2 is not routinely tested with gcc versions older than gcc 3.4
oops thanks cradek
checking for xgettext tcl bug... xgettext version 0.14.4 buggy -- need at least 0.14.5
wonder if this will be important
LaciN: you might want to consider updating to a more modern OS install. It looks like you will have a lot of work to do otherwise.
that is important if you wish to improve the translation of emc
we've already updated xgettext, and found the DEP=... line
but it doesn't really tell us anything
how do we change from gcc-3.0 to gcc-3.4
we've downloaded it already
emc uses the version of gcc that you used to compile rtai
rtai probably uses the version of gcc you used to compile the kernel
so the solution is to compile the rtai again?
you could try modifying DEP = to use "> $(3).tmp" instead of "-o $(3).tmp" since your compiler seems to ignore -o and write to standard output.
That works this way. For a while... then we recive the following msg: http://pastebin.ca/802806
we tried the apt get install for this lstdc++
you're missing libstdc++
but we already have the version libstdc++6
then probably it's noth in the LD path or something
I think it's called LDPATH, and you can set it from the command line ..
try echo $LDPATH
does g++ work at all? Does the following succeed?
touch x.cc; g++ -shared -o x.so x.cc
it didn't work
couldn't find lstdc++
OK, then your C++ compiler's installation is broken, and you need to fix it.
* jepler leaves
we'll try to link it, do you think this is the good solution?
LaciN: a "good" solution would be to start from a decent system, with only one gcc installed
otherwise you get into all sorts of problems like this one..
should i remove the older versions of gcc?
echo $LDPATH didn't show anything
maybe you can set LDPATH before the compile
(it needs to point to the dir where libstdc++ is)
(however, this is still just a hack.. you should properly fix it..)
apt-get remove all gcc's you don't need, apt-get install only the one you need (the one you compiled the kernel and rtai with)
[18:19:50] <alex_joni> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=2&chap=5
ok. thx for the help. i think that i will fix the whole system but only on monday. i have to compile the kernel and rtai again. thanks again. have a nice weekend!
same to you
dang.. connection died
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-11-30.txt
alex_joni2: you didn't miss much
jepler: I see that.. was wondering what happened with my regular connection
all links to it are down
jepler:did you get my message yesterday about the s.poll working
jlmjvm: no I didn't see it -- good.
had to make 2 buttons,1 to read z,1 set tlo
[20:01:35] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/802964
I don't understand why you had to make two buttons.
kinda crude,but its working
i didnt know how to link them together
lemmee try that
that defines a function with two statements in it.
In a function, the statements are simply executed one after another in top-down order (unless modified by 'flow control' statements like if, return, and so on)
jlmjvm: did you read the python tutorial? I never made it all the way through, but it was very helpful to do the beginning of it
[20:07:45] <cradek> http://docs.python.org/tut/tut.html
been looking at a couple actually
gf thinks ive lost my mind
jepler:that works even better
those pesky indentations,lol
i noticed something today,i changed my keyboard to ctrl-F9 and ctrl-F10 for the spindle,now F10 opens the file menu
i cant find anything binding F10 to that
that's a standard binding in Tk
(it's actually a standard binding on Motif and Windows, inherited by Tk)
i set the keys like that so you have to hit 2 keys to cause motion
everything was great except for that 1 mystery
does the same thing as alt-f
[20:23:36] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/802986
thats the dialog box my friend is working on
having a problem getting it to actually write
the tutorial talks about writing files. http://docs.python.org/tut/node9.html#SECTION009200000000000000000
cradek: hey Chris.... tort.ngc is great for testing new drives on the bench... lots of velocities, direction changes... I added a line to make it end where it started so one can check for lost steps
it even found one motor that must have something like shorted turn.... the motor gets significantly hotter than the other 2 even if I swap it to other drive axis.
the dog doesnt like all the siren sounds coming from the motors as they ramp up and down!
[20:56:57] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/803037
thats the error im getting running in terminal
I guess the mistake is probably not obvious to you
your file 'tt' is open for reading, not for writing
the second, optional argument to open() should be 'w' to open a file for writing. You will open the file twice: once to read it, then once to write the new contents.
thanks jepler,was away for a min,will try
good night all
I want to wire up a SSR with a DPTT toggle switch (ON/OFF/AUTO), but should I wire it on the control side, or the output side?
logger_emc:can i get a bookmark,had to do an unexpected reboot
I'm logging. I don't understand 'can i get a bookmark,had to do an unexpected reboot', jlmjvm. Try /msg logger_emc help
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-11-30.txt