#emc | Logs for 2007-11-16

[01:18:40] <renesis> okay
[01:19:11] <renesis> G2 arc, endpoint is n/2 away
[01:19:21] <renesis> its saying n/4 is an illegal radius
[01:19:26] <renesis> its making me wanna hit shit
[01:22:16] <cradek> renesis: your gcode is probably wrong. pastebin it if you want help fixing it.
[01:26:48] <renesis> http://pastebin.ca/776417
[01:27:20] <renesis> dies line 41 like how it is now
[01:28:21] <renesis> ive tried it diff ways, ive tried adding small amounts to the radius, tried it with R and J
[01:28:42] <cradek> I can't decipher it with all those variables...
[01:28:49] <renesis> yeh fureal
[01:28:56] <cradek> if you're running 2.2, it gives you lots of information about the arc
[01:29:02] <cradek> you should be able to troubleshoot by that
[01:29:07] <renesis> im not i dont think theres an installer yet
[01:29:27] <cradek> you must not read the wiki or the mailing lists then
[01:29:47] <renesis> i read the link on the front page
[01:31:45] <cradek> brb
[01:32:55] <renesis> oh, it cant be that broken, cuz it worked when i put numbers without decimals into the call
[01:33:09] <renesis> o010 call [4] [2] worked
[01:36:15] <renesis> okay ill try 2.2 bbl
[02:33:57] <toastydeath> i got put on a production lapping machine at work
[02:34:02] <toastydeath> rockin!
[02:44:50] <Ziegler> toastydeath: pics?
[02:45:45] <toastydeath> nab
[02:45:53] <toastydeath> i can probably find a similar machine
[02:47:31] <toastydeath> http://cgi.ebay.com/48-SPITFIRE-LAPPING-MACHINE_W0QQitemZ290078985687QQihZ019QQcategoryZ25279QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
[02:47:34] <toastydeath> similar to that
[02:47:46] <Ziegler> thanks toastydeath
[04:17:12] <eric_U> it's very quiet, too quiet
[04:21:44] <toastydeath> WE ARE HUNTING RABBITS
[04:44:44] <fenn> renesis: you dont define #2 anywhere?
[04:58:42] <tomp> " 'Outhouse Springs' the worlds first recycled water. Remember we're #1 not #2. "
[04:59:18] <fenn> used by astronauts everywhere
[04:59:36] <fenn> well, maybe not
[05:04:03] <tomp> that was a series of billboard signs in michigan, all bogus, just to advertise advertising. but darn clever.
[05:04:20] <fenn> anyway, renesis stick in a comment like this on line 40: (debug, #1 #33 #31)
[05:04:36] <fenn> and then run the program
[06:38:26] <renesis> http://pastebin.ca/776714
[06:38:32] <renesis> omg so much prettier
[06:40:25] <renesis> and does 2.2 go slower for everyone else?
[06:40:44] <renesis> jog response time is like way worse for me
[06:40:50] <skinnypuppy34> Slower?
[06:40:52] <renesis> bad things happened, i wont say
[06:40:59] <renesis> well, more latent, i guess
[06:41:07] <skinnypuppy34> I haven't had bad things no .
[06:41:18] <skinnypuppy34> Been using two hours stright here
[06:41:26] <renesis> what kind of machine?
[06:41:31] <skinnypuppy34> bp clone
[06:41:40] <renesis> i think mines a xp 2500+
[06:41:45] <renesis> no i meant the emc host
[06:41:55] <skinnypuppy34> aah amd 2.4
[06:42:01] <renesis> weird
[06:42:32] <skinnypuppy34> latency b/t hitting jog arrow and actual movement?
[06:42:37] <renesis> yeah
[06:42:50] <renesis> but the prob is latency between when i let go and when it stops =(
[06:43:09] <skinnypuppy34> eeeek
[06:43:35] <skinnypuppy34> no prob like that here moves as soon as I touch the keyboard or gui +-
[06:44:06] <renesis> whats your base thread set to?
[06:44:13] <skinnypuppy34> 25000
[06:44:50] <renesis> mines like 15000
[06:44:58] <skinnypuppy34> I don't remember jitter results but 1.7 ovl max was around 16000
[06:45:23] <skinnypuppy34> aaahh prob needs to be a little higher
[06:45:30] <renesis> set up for 60 ipm at at 1/8 microstepping
[06:45:40] <renesis> cant really go much higher
[06:45:47] <toastydeath> sixtaaay
[06:46:14] <renesis> i only rapid at 30 for parts and 45 for fun
[06:46:26] <renesis> maybe i can turn it down a bit
[06:46:29] <skinnypuppy34> whats your machine ?
[06:46:39] <renesis> stepper taig
[06:47:15] <skinnypuppy34> gotcha got to play with a sherline once that was kind of cool and novel I was sitting at a table and it was in an enclosure
[06:47:28] <skinnypuppy34> not used to that
[06:47:33] <renesis> yeah mines in an enclosure in my beedroom
[06:47:52] <renesis> on a little 2x4' conf table, little plywood enclosure with plexi front
[06:48:07] <skinnypuppy34> nothin like swarf mistaken for bed bugs
[06:48:15] <renesis> kinda sucks cant plunge with the centercut endmills at night
[06:48:20] <toastydeath> why not
[06:48:25] <renesis> haha
[06:48:28] <renesis> cuz its loud
[06:48:46] <toastydeath> whaaat
[06:48:56] <renesis> squeeky
[06:49:10] <toastydeath> what diam endmill
[06:49:17] <renesis> .125"
[06:49:17] <toastydeath> rpm?
[06:49:21] <renesis> 10K
[06:49:27] <toastydeath> slow it down and feed it faster
[06:50:01] <renesis> yeah but i need it fast for cutting parallel to xy
[06:50:08] <toastydeath> lol wat
[06:50:09] <renesis> and i dont have a speed controller, life sucks
[06:50:25] <toastydeath> are you stuck at 10k rpm
[06:50:40] <skinnypuppy34> Understand I have step pulley mill stop change pulley load tool ...
[06:50:42] <renesis> what what, 10K, 10ipm, its fine
[06:51:37] <renesis> is like around 300fpm cutter speed
[06:51:51] <toastydeath> yeah but you're feeding it real damn slow
[06:52:15] <renesis> 10ipm is slow?
[06:52:18] <toastydeath> yes
[06:52:21] <skinnypuppy34> Yeah at that kind of rpm
[06:52:28] <toastydeath> 10 ipm is slow for me at most speeds
[06:52:34] <renesis> is a taig not a haas minimill
[06:52:46] <toastydeath> i was thinking more a mori seiki
[06:52:53] <toastydeath> but either way it's slow
[06:52:58] <toastydeath> and not really related to rigidity
[06:53:58] <toastydeath> get it to like .002" per tooth or something
[06:55:00] <toastydeath> which is 40 ipm in a 2 flute
[06:55:07] <toastydeath> not bad
[06:55:08] <renesis> hmm, thats alot for tiny mill
[06:55:16] <toastydeath> not really?
[06:55:21] <skinnypuppy34> .002 chip isn't
[06:55:53] <renesis> maybe cuz i was cutting steel before
[06:56:03] <toastydeath> even in steel
[06:56:04] <renesis> that wouldnt work great on the taig with steel
[06:56:04] <skinnypuppy34> hopefully not at 300sfm
[06:56:16] <toastydeath> the spindle might stop
[06:56:26] <renesis> yeah thats bad
[06:56:58] <toastydeath> technically, it is more economic to increase feedrate and decrease speed if your spindle will handle it, it produces a lower specific cutting force
[06:57:13] <toastydeath> but the motor probably does not like low rpms
[06:57:19] <toastydeath> the haas at school certainly does not
[06:57:33] <renesis> i miss the haas at school
[06:57:40] <skinnypuppy34> what haas do you have? we've got an sl20
[06:57:46] <toastydeath> me or him?
[06:57:56] <skinnypuppy34> either/both now
[06:57:58] <renesis> we have a minimill at school
[06:58:01] <toastydeath> if me, we have a vf-0 and a sl-20
[06:58:14] <skinnypuppy34> cool
[06:58:23] <toastydeath> i don't particularly like either
[06:58:54] <skinnypuppy34> We don't have much of a choice down here in georgia
[06:59:00] <toastydeath> ...?
[06:59:09] <skinnypuppy34> Schools with cnc
[06:59:14] <toastydeath> not too many of them?
[06:59:19] <toastydeath> or contract?
[06:59:36] <skinnypuppy34> three schools I think ... not a lot of cnc work either
[07:00:14] <toastydeath> i'd rather have a beat down old mori over a brand new haas
[07:00:43] <toastydeath> the okk at work is also pretty good
[07:00:48] <toastydeath> that thing is like from the 60s though
[07:00:58] <skinnypuppy34> Damn I remember a few years ago seeing sekis selling for dirt cheap on ebay
[07:01:17] <toastydeath> was it mori seiki?
[07:01:23] <toastydeath> or ameri seiki or the other m-seiki
[07:01:31] <skinnypuppy34> Mori
[07:01:35] <toastydeath> cool
[07:01:54] <toastydeath> we have two, one big ass lathe and one big ass mill
[07:02:15] <toastydeath> dreamy to use
[07:02:41] <toastydeath> big ass being relative i guess
[07:02:49] <skinnypuppy34> I haven't found anything dreamy...
[07:02:51] <renesis> we got a fadal with the older style controller
[07:02:51] <toastydeath> i think the lathe is 20"x60
[07:02:57] <toastydeath> 20 or 30 hp
[07:03:03] <renesis> but im done with all my cnc classes
[07:03:08] <renesis> the cnc lathes are a trip
[07:03:14] <toastydeath> and the mill is 20"x80" x/y and 40" z
[07:03:28] <skinnypuppy34> I finished the cnc portion and will be working on my associates soon
[07:03:34] <toastydeath> hot
[07:03:36] <renesis> i think the fadal might be towards that big
[07:03:48] <toastydeath> fadal makes a pretty okay machine from what people say
[07:03:52] <toastydeath> never used the one at work
[07:03:55] <renesis> i been to their factory
[07:03:57] <renesis> neat place
[07:03:58] <toastydeath> we have such a hodgepodge
[07:04:01] <skinnypuppy34> Yeeha wish there were somewhere with a b.s. though
[07:04:12] <renesis> the new controllers are neat, been told they have integrate cam software
[07:04:24] <renesis> but very cool lookin
[07:04:49] <renesis> we the the c64 lookin old with, with the safe knob jog wheel
[07:05:21] <toastydeath> haha
[07:05:57] <renesis> i think i need sleep that sentence is very bad
[07:06:05] <toastydeath> i would kind of like a haas toolroom mill
[07:06:10] <renesis> they have some bigass grinders there, tho
[07:06:17] <renesis> they converted them to use their controllers
[07:06:20] <toastydeath> nice
[07:06:25] <skinnypuppy34> Either of you check out that gsimple program someone posted yesterday? http://www.gsimple.eu
[07:06:27] <toastydeath> cnc grinders are totally pimp
[07:06:37] <renesis> and then theres a part of the assembly line where the fadal cnc are grinding down their own tables
[07:06:41] <renesis> that was neat
[07:07:00] <toastydeath> i like that you can do form grinding
[07:07:05] <toastydeath> grinding/dressing
[07:10:13] <renesis> skinnypuppy34: looks okay
[07:10:44] <renesis> gcam is almost awesome twingy needs to fix a diamater compensation corner bug
[07:10:54] <skinnypuppy34> I'd looked at the site , haven't had time to mess with it though
[07:10:56] <renesis> he got busy tho
[07:11:09] <toastydeath> i just pirated mastercam
[07:11:12] <skinnypuppy34> I have used g-cam to make some circle pockets
[07:11:17] <skinnypuppy34> :o)
[07:11:18] <renesis> yeah i just havent installed it yet
[07:11:46] <renesis> but im to the point where im like fuckit im sick of trying to use free shit and writing in emc with variables is difficult
[07:12:06] <renesis> well not so much now that i can actually label parameters with words
[07:12:13] <skinnypuppy34> getting mastercam to do some things is a bitch too
[07:12:31] <renesis> somethings a bitch on pretty much everything
[07:12:32] <skinnypuppy34> though admittedly I'm not a real whiz at it
[07:13:06] <renesis> i have to figure out how to feed solidworks into mastercam
[07:13:27] <renesis> id be a happier person if i got that setup
[07:13:47] <toastydeath> you have to understand "surfaces"
[07:13:49] <toastydeath> whatever the fuck that means
[07:13:52] <skinnypuppy34> How do you like solid ? I'd seen a link regarding solid/mastercam
[07:14:02] <toastydeath> solid is jesus
[07:14:13] <skinnypuppy34> it walks on water cool
[07:14:14] <renesis> its fake?
[07:14:18] <skinnypuppy34> ha
[07:14:25] <renesis> bummer
[07:14:39] <renesis> i need a fookin hdd
[07:14:56] <renesis> i also need a car again tho so i should be saving money
[07:18:00] <skinnypuppy34> Some free on line mastercam x videos some are solids related http://www.eapprentice.net/lessons.html
[07:22:42] <skinnypuppy34> renesis whats your max dist b/t spindle and table?
[07:40:12] <renesis> i think like 6"
[07:47:52] <skinnypuppy34> Not too bad , I just finished milling another hole
[07:49:13] <skinnypuppy34> I was wondering if anyone had used a small lathe compound mounted to an angle plate to do lathe turning on a mill with material in the spindle
[08:33:01] <renesis> w00t
[08:33:26] <renesis> adjusted base thread time, some other stuff, everything more responsive now
[08:34:02] <renesis> i didnt have positions.txt set either that shit is useful
[08:39:42] <alex_joni> heh.. :)
[13:13:36] <cradek> it's easier to mill on a lathe than lathe on a mill. the missing tailstock is a real limitation
[13:14:02] <cradek> but really, both pretty much suck
[13:15:04] <cradek> oh, he left anyway.
[13:18:35] <alex_joni> good morning
[13:35:04] <jepler> toastydeath: have the slightest bit of class and don't pirate software. Or have the slightest bit of discretion and don't talk about it.
[13:47:32] <alex_joni> * alex_joni snickers
[14:23:55] <jlmjvm> jepler:just wanted to let ya know everything appeared to working correctly yesterday on the mill
[14:24:45] <jlmjvm> gonna run a few sample programs and give it a good shakedown today
[14:25:20] <alSMT> I ran into some confution testerday with classicladder using the sample configs demo_step_cl. the .clp gets loaded twice corupting the ladder display after looking at the developers mail arcive I seen Chris Morleys post about how to load the gui ,loadusr -w classicladder --nogui wellsindex.clp,loadusr classicladder inm the demo vertion it loads the .clp file twice and this is how I was tring to load also my first attemp at classic ladder so I didn't
[14:25:21] <alSMT> now what to expect, I figured there would be a way to use the ladder to view the curcuit, I was confused on how to load the ladder with the configs, just thought I would give a heads up. Thanks
[14:27:46] <alSMT> can't type either
[14:33:15] <alex_joni> alSMT: heh
[14:33:25] <alex_joni> * alex_joni tries to filter that..
[14:33:45] <alex_joni> alSMT: you're saying there's something wrong in the demo_step_cl config ?
[14:33:52] <alex_joni> I ran it just find yesterday
[14:34:07] <alSMT> I got a question about the type of encoder used on the nist lathe configs? like ppr ,or better yet what type I would need to control my mill spindle, like what is the max the software can keep up with,with this type of configuration
[14:34:11] <alSMT> yes
[14:34:52] <alSMT> when I load that config I get a coruped ladder
[14:35:26] <alex_joni> alSMT: loaded from /etc/emc2/sample-configs ? or from your home dir?
[14:35:39] <alSMT> sample gir
[14:35:53] <alex_joni> alSMT: re encoder.. it depends on the max spindle speed you'd like
[14:36:30] <alSMT> mostly for tapping 500 rpm or so
[14:36:36] <alex_joni> the max speed the software can read is about .5-.75 of the max frequency determined by base_thread
[14:37:27] <alex_joni> say you have base_thread at 20000, that means 50000 updates/second
[14:37:44] <alex_joni> so it would be safe for about 25-35 kHz updates
[14:38:09] <alex_joni> if you plan on going at max 1000 rpm, that means 35 counts / revolution
[14:38:16] <alex_joni> sorry..
[14:38:30] <alex_joni> 1000 rpm = 16.67 rps
[14:38:31] <alSMT> the nist config only uses phase a and index z and also uses counter instead of encoder1
[14:38:53] <alex_joni> so about 2000 pulses/rev is ok
[14:40:10] <alSMT> is this only called for in syncr motion?
[14:40:28] <alex_joni> yeah, and if you like to see a readout with the spindle speed
[14:41:09] <alex_joni> value, bargraph, whatever
[14:41:37] <anonimasu> hm
[14:41:51] <alSMT> if I operate at a higher speed than can be read without syncr ,no problems
[14:46:09] <alSMT> alex_joni:thank you
[14:48:56] <anonimasu> and I found my surface finish issues at the big mill today ^_^
[15:02:21] <jepler> jlmjvm: good, I'm pleased to hear it
[18:31:26] <jlmjvm> is there any way to make axis use upper case letters instead of lower case?
[18:40:05] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: what do you mean?
[18:47:19] <jlmjvm> when i use emc,i have to use lower case letters to use the gui
[18:47:45] <jlmjvm> r for run,instead of R for run
[18:48:30] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: ping
[18:48:45] <jlmjvm> they are all capitol letters on the quick reference page
[18:50:45] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: you can define a ~/.axisrc
[18:50:52] <alex_joni> and add lines like these:
[18:51:05] <alex_joni> root_window.bind("r", "run")
[18:51:18] <alex_joni> (although I'm not sure what the names are for all the commands you need..)
[18:53:00] <jlmjvm> i just thought the gui would use caps,like the quick reference examples,but mine only works with lower case
[18:56:38] <jlmjvm> could a pyvcp be made to use as a tool offset button,example: position z,press tool offset,select number,enter
[18:57:28] <alex_joni> don't think so
[18:57:34] <alex_joni> tool offsets come from the tool file
[18:57:44] <alex_joni> tool table actually
[18:58:06] <alex_joni> but you "could" theoretically trick the tool measuring procedure to do what you want
[18:58:16] <jlmjvm> how so?
[18:59:23] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: it involves quite some work/hackery
[18:59:36] <alex_joni> you would need a component which emulates a touch-probe
[18:59:56] <jlmjvm> and digitize
[19:00:07] <alex_joni> you enter the tool length you want, and then you use something like : http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/nc_files/tool-length-probe.ngc?rev=1.4
[19:00:14] <alex_joni> to "virtually digitize"
[19:00:20] <fenn> wow i'm watching the mastercam screencast tutorials - they really give you lots of opportunity to mess up
[19:00:31] <alex_joni> that means your component would trip at the exact spot it needs to
[19:01:01] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: another option I can think of is using TRUNK, not 2.2.x
[19:01:14] <alex_joni> you can use M66 Exx (analog input)
[19:01:21] <alex_joni> M66 E0
[19:01:28] <alex_joni> G43.1 k[#5399]
[19:02:54] <alex_joni> then you link motion.analog-in-00 to your pyvcp
[19:15:24] <renesis> k i turned the #<vars> into #<_vars> and its doing that radius not long enough thing again
[19:15:44] <fenn> why did you add the _?
[19:15:51] <renesis> is it like truncating the globals before giving them to the subcalls? =(
[19:16:11] <renesis> cuz that makes them global and i thought maybe itd go faster if it didnt have to do calculations every loop
[19:16:56] <renesis> just do them once at the beginning
[19:17:26] <fenn> sounds confusing
[19:17:35] <renesis> not really
[19:18:15] <fenn> does _ actually change the behavior of how the namespace works?
[19:18:22] <fenn> or is it just a convention?
[19:18:31] <renesis> no its supposed to change it
[19:18:40] <renesis> sec i find the doc, is in the 2.2 manual
[19:18:47] <renesis> maybe i read stupid
[19:19:30] <fenn> was it something like "For example: to print a named global variable to stderr"
[19:19:42] <fenn> (print,endmill dia = #<_endmill_dia>)
[19:21:34] <fenn> well, it was LawrenceG that wrote that little bit of documentation, maybe he knows
[19:21:57] <renesis> http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/5/5/lang,en/
[19:22:13] <renesis> All documentation (html)
[19:22:15] <renesis> 404
[19:22:20] <jepler> argh
[19:22:25] <jepler> I'll fix that link
[19:22:30] <jepler> try http://linuxcnc.org/docview/2.2/html/
[19:23:24] <renesis> or no i guess that was on the wiki about the parameters
[19:24:21] <renesis> jepler: ty
[19:26:05] <renesis> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Named_Parameters
[19:27:21] <renesis> a choice was made to have the default define *local* parameters while the '_' case defines global parameters. The reason for this is that local parameters are probably more common.
[19:27:50] <renesis> and: #<_global named parameter here>. is a global named parameter. They are accessible from within called subroutines and may set values within subroutines that are accessible to the caller.
[19:31:55] <jepler> this program (split lines at "/") shows that at least the simplest incarnation of global named parameters works: O100 sub / g0 X#<_x> / O100 endsub / #<_x>=3 / O100 call / M2
[19:32:02] <jepler> when run, the machine goes to X3
[19:32:49] <fenn> i bet tissf is having a hard time reading the documentation :\
[19:33:05] <renesis> http://pastebin.ca/776714
[19:33:10] <renesis> that works
[19:33:39] <renesis> i changed all the parameters inside the sub to global and put them before the sub
[19:34:01] <renesis> and it gave me a radius not big enough error
[19:34:27] <jlmjvm> jepler:is there a way to enable G43 while doing the Z Touch Off?
[19:34:30] <renesis> so according to your simple program i should put after the sub?
[19:34:33] <renesis> does it matter?
[19:34:55] <cradek> jlmjvm: I think it just works
[19:35:05] <jlmjvm> this was on the wiki:I don't have repeatable tool length, so I don't use G43 while cutting; if I did, I'd also enable G43 while doing the Z Touch Off.
[19:35:07] <cradek> jlmjvm: (but, there was a bug report about it that I haven't investigated yet)
[19:36:24] <jepler> renesis: the line which *defines* a parameter must be *executed* before the line which *uses* it. In the program order, the line that defines may appear above or below the line that uses.
[19:36:40] <jepler> in my program, the use appeared above the definition, but was executed after
[19:36:55] <renesis> okay so its not that =\
[19:37:36] <fenn> renesis: i find it much easier to debug programs if i print out the values of key variables before they are used
[19:37:40] <jepler> is the result of that program you showed on pastebin not the result you wanted? I got no errors loading the preview in axis.
[19:37:42] <renesis> ill go poke it some more
[19:37:57] <renesis> no that one works
[19:38:23] <renesis> it fucks up when i changed it all to globals and put the derived variables before the sub
[19:38:23] <jlmjvm> cradek:dont understand what you meant when you said you think it just works
[19:38:43] <renesis> i havent woken up the cnc computer yet today so its not posted
[19:39:00] <renesis> bbl, ty for help
[19:39:05] <cradek> I mean just activate tool length offset in MDI, and then touch off
[19:40:22] <renesis> i should make some sort of shank collar press
[19:40:52] <renesis> i dont think itd be super accurate with the tapered spring collets but who knows
[19:41:46] <jepler> this works for me: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/reg.ngc
[19:41:59] <jepler> the preview looks the same as the preview when the variables were local
[19:42:59] <renesis> yeah but take the derived variabled between o010 sub and #<_z_now>
[19:43:03] <renesis> and put them on top
[19:43:41] <renesis> thats when i get errors
[19:45:33] <renesis> s/variabled/variables
[19:51:41] <alSMT> alex_joni just looked at why the classicladder doesn't load right in the step_demo_cl samples the demo_step_cl.hal file doesn't have --nogui when loading classicladder and the .clp file
[19:55:23] <alex_joni> alSMT: and?
[19:56:15] <alSMT> it loads but it is corupted
[19:57:16] <alex_joni> alSMT: is this with emc2.2.1 ?
[19:57:20] <alSMT> it needs to be loadusr classicladder --nogui demo_step_cl.clp
[19:57:22] <alSMT> yes
[19:57:25] <alex_joni> because it loads/works just fine here
[19:57:29] <cradek> demo-sim-cl runs for me...
[19:57:39] <alex_joni> and demo-step-cl does too
[19:57:43] <alSMT> it the step config
[19:57:54] <alSMT> not here
[19:58:05] <alSMT> 2.2.1 emc
[19:58:21] <alex_joni> * alex_joni tries again
[20:00:04] <cradek> alSMT: can you describe the problem (not what you think the cause is) please?
[20:00:20] <cradek> I may not understand what you're saying
[20:00:44] <alSMT> the ladder gui is corupt only small part shows
[20:01:03] <alex_joni> alSMT: can you make a snapshot and put it on imagebin.org ?
[20:01:03] <cradek> I'm not getting that. can you take a picture of it?
[20:01:15] <alSMT> how
[20:01:23] <alex_joni> press printscreen
[20:01:29] <alex_joni> on your keyboard
[20:01:50] <alSMT> ok then where will it print it
[20:01:58] <alex_joni> just do it
[20:02:02] <alex_joni> you'll figure it out :D
[20:02:14] <alSMT> paste bin
[20:02:20] <alex_joni> (it will open a GUI with the snapshot, and will ask you where to save it)
[20:02:28] <alSMT> ok
[20:02:48] <alex_joni> after you saved it you need to open a browser, go to www.imagebin.org, and upload it there
[20:03:01] <alSMT> ok
[20:03:42] <alex_joni> cradek: I did get a warning when running demo-step-dl: ULAPI: WARNING: module 'HAL_classicladde' failed to delete shmem 03
[20:04:47] <cradek> hmm
[20:06:24] <alSMT> imagebin.org must be down or something
[20:06:36] <alex_joni> works here..
[20:06:48] <alex_joni> (try imagebin.org without the www.)
[20:07:07] <alex_joni> http://imagebin.org/index.php?page=add
[20:09:34] <alSMT> http://imagebin.org/11845 ladder corupted
[20:10:08] <cradek> alSMT: just resize it
[20:11:28] <cradek> oh hmm, I see now that you did resize it, but it didn't redraw (I think)
[20:11:38] <cradek> is there anything useful on stdout/stderr?
[20:11:57] <alSMT> it sat there like that long enough for me to print it and I went back and its ok go figure
[20:12:16] <cradek> so it did resize after a little while?
[20:12:25] <alSMT> yes
[20:12:31] <alex_joni> must be a bad BASE_PERIOD for your system?
[20:12:42] <alex_joni> I also noticed tkemc comes up very slowly on this VM
[20:12:51] <alSMT> probly the base in the configs
[20:12:59] <alex_joni> hmm.. BASE is 50000
[20:13:24] <alSMT> I thought 20000 but not sure
[20:14:17] <alSMT> yes its 50000
[20:15:53] <alSMT> it seems to load better if you use loadusr -w classicladder--nogui demo_ step_cl.clp and then loadusr classicladder on the next line
[20:16:04] <alex_joni> alSMT: that's how it is..
[20:16:37] <alex_joni> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/configs/demo_step_cl/demo_step_cl.hal?rev=1.3;only_with_tag=RELEASE_2_2_1
[20:17:21] <cradek> you can now load the CL gui from the AXIS File menu. It's unnecessary (and inconvenient) to have the gui load automatically every time
[20:18:15] <alex_joni> cradek: how do you run it?
[20:18:24] <cradek> run hwat?
[20:18:33] <alSMT> i'm sorry it loads better if you don't use --nogui
[20:18:48] <alSMT> for me that is
[20:18:52] <cradek> better how?
[20:18:53] <alex_joni> < cradek> you can now load the CL gui from the AXIS File menu.
[20:19:08] <alex_joni> duh.. sorry
[20:19:09] <cradek> alex_joni: File>Ladder Editor or whatever it says
[20:19:23] <alex_joni> missed the "file" part in your message
[20:19:28] <cradek> ah
[20:19:31] <cradek> brb
[20:21:46] <alex_joni> cradek: imagebin.org/11847
[20:26:28] <renesis> so im thinking about taking a taig lathe and putting it on my taig mill
[20:26:41] <alex_joni> hmm.. that might have been me busting up the config (I had num_rungs=2)
[20:27:51] <renesis> well, just the bed and headstock and tailstock
[20:28:49] <renesis> and then like servo or stepper on the headstock
[20:28:59] <renesis> i wonder if that fits
[20:30:27] <jlmjvm> cradek:is that supposed to save to the tool table?
[20:32:38] <LawrenceG> hey guys... in TRUNK is hal_parport.so not used any more?... it doesnt get built and is used by demo_step_cl among others.. this is after cvs up, make clean, make and make install
[20:33:11] <fenn> what directory did you cvs up in?
[20:33:25] <cradek> if you configured with --enable-simulator, no hardware drivers are built.
[20:33:48] <LawrenceG> that would do it.... thanks
[20:33:57] <LawrenceG> doh
[20:34:35] <fenn> oh i guess that's what the demo_sim_cl is for then
[20:38:03] <jlmjvm> how does everyone here set their tool length offsets,i think im missing something
[20:38:29] <jlmjvm> not the g54-59 fixture offsets
[20:38:50] <cradek> by measuring the tools, either directly, or by moving the machine
[20:39:15] <jlmjvm> k,move z to pos,then?
[20:40:04] <cradek> take the tool out, touch the spindle (or holder or whatever) to the table (or whatever). set this as Z 0. insert the tool, do the same touch, put that Z value in the tool table
[20:40:34] <cradek> or, have a reference tool that you call "length zero"
[20:40:50] <skinnypuppy34> I've got a little wierdness, after a while in mdi g2/3 will not move nor give error , g0g1 still work ok but g2/3 nothing. The fix? Clear the plotter in axis run g2/3 line and motion happens .. anyone else ?
[20:41:19] <cradek> clear the plotter?
[20:41:48] <skinnypuppy34> yep happened twice, clear live plot and g2/3 works again
[20:42:04] <cradek> or, use a taper fixture and height gauge on your surface plate
[20:42:34] <fenn> skinnypuppy34: sounds familiar, that happened to me while i was testing the arc code
[20:42:38] <cradek> skinnypuppy34: I bet there is some other pattern happening. clearing the plot is very unlikely to affect any motion problem
[20:42:46] <jlmjvm> are you manually puuting the value in the tool table?
[20:43:00] <cradek> jlmjvm: yes you have to edit the tool table
[20:43:57] <fenn> skinnypuppy34: does it show up when you do very small arcs, or after a helical arc?
[20:44:09] <skinnypuppy34> wierd ... happens only after the first features start to disappear on plot...
[20:44:51] <skinnypuppy34> I'm just g2/3 making some holes b/t 1&2 " dia manual plunge with knee
[20:45:06] <jlmjvm> k,we do our offsets differently,my z0 ref is quill all the way up,and all tool offsets are negative
[20:45:25] <cradek> jlmjvm: sure, emc can handle that too
[20:45:42] <cradek> that's how my bp boss does it
[20:45:58] <fenn> skinnypuppy34: if you can figure out how to do it repeatably, it would help a lot
[20:46:12] <cradek> the numbers are positive but they're not tool length, they're tool "shortness" offsets, haha
[20:46:27] <cradek> the problem is you can't ever put in a longer tool without changing all of them
[20:46:38] <jlmjvm> works fine like that,just thought there might be a way to set the tool length,like the touch off function
[20:46:45] <skinnypuppy34> fenn sure thing
[20:47:01] <jlmjvm> doesnt your boss use tlo
[20:47:06] <fenn> * fenn thought touch off was for setting tool length :F
[20:47:14] <cradek> jlmjvm: no, you have to put the numbers in the tool table yourself. maybe there is a better way we could come up with some time.
[20:47:46] <cradek> jlmjvm: well longer tools get smaller TLO numbers
[20:47:48] <fenn> tool touch off and work touch off
[20:47:58] <cradek> so call it whatever you want...
[20:47:58] <kwajstabo2> i upgraded to emc 2.2, is there an example configuration to test emc if it works ok?
[20:48:07] <cradek> brb
[20:48:15] <jlmjvm> something like touch off except for tool lengths would be awesome
[20:48:37] <fenn> kwajstabo2: there are lots of example configurations... just type 'emc' to get a list of them
[20:48:55] <kwajstabo2> i did, but none of them works
[20:49:00] <fenn> what is the problem?
[20:50:11] <kwajstabo2> i found "max" sample works. For instance stepper-xyza doesnt work any more
[20:53:18] <alex_joni> kwajstabo2: what does 'none of them works' mean?
[20:53:50] <alex_joni> they don't start up? they do start up, but your machine doesn't move? something else?
[20:53:57] <kwajstabo2> it means that i get a lot of error messages
[20:55:32] <alex_joni> kwajstabo2: might be usefull if we could see them?
[20:56:14] <fenn> if its a bunch of stuff you can use http://pastebin.ca/
[20:58:12] <kwajstabo2> I could test the stepper-xyza sample with emc2.1.7, but i cant test this sample with 2.2...isn't this normal.
[20:59:13] <kwajstabo2> Werent the .ini files changed.
[21:02:59] <alSMT> it wouldn't start for me either
[21:04:47] <fenn> saying "it won't work, help!" is not very useful information
[21:08:47] <alSMT> 15990
[21:08:47] <alSMT> Stopping realtime threads
[21:08:47] <alSMT> Unloading hal components
[21:09:07] <alSMT> that from the debug.txt
[21:09:54] <alSMT> Starting HAL User Interface program: halui
[21:09:54] <alSMT> Killing task emcsvr, PID=15990
[21:09:54] <alSMT> Removing HAL_LIB, RTAPI, and Real Time OS modules
[21:09:54] <alSMT> Removing NML shared memory segments
[21:10:04] <alSMT> from print.txt
[21:10:32] <alSMT> nothing from the terminal
[21:18:28] <alex_joni> alSMT: open a terminal, type "emc", select one of the sample configs
[21:18:36] <alex_joni> put all the text into pastebin.ca
[21:25:57] <fenn> oh yeah, people click on the little penguin dont they :0
[21:26:17] <fenn> maybe it should pop up a terminal which spews text everywhere
[21:27:46] <alex_joni> fenn: you should have drawn an uglier penguin
[21:30:43] <skinnypuppy34> Ha my g/f always notes the penguin has a hammer and micrometer...
[21:31:07] <alex_joni> if I had a hammer..
[21:31:17] <skinnypuppy34> precision hammering
[21:31:59] <anonimasu> ^_^
[21:33:05] <alSMT> alex_joni ok
[21:34:49] <alex_joni> alSMT: just to make sure.. you're not running an older config (one that emc2.1.7 might have copied into your home dir) ?
[21:35:42] <alSMT> alex_joni: http://pastebin.com/m2dbbba6c
[21:36:15] <jepler> kwajstabo2: there is an error in the stepper-xyza configuration in version 2.2.1. it will be corrected in the next release
[21:36:18] <jepler> thanks for your report
[21:38:29] <toastyde1th> fffff
[21:38:53] <alex_joni> alSMT: seems like I broke it.. sorry :)
[21:39:18] <alSMT> no problem thanks guys
[21:41:05] <alSMT> it still takes like 10 min plus for the ladder fully come up in the demo_step_cl for me its not a problem for me but just thought it was broke
[21:41:24] <alex_joni> 10 min sounds like way too long
[21:41:34] <alSMT> tell me
[21:43:13] <jepler> is your BASE_PERIOD low?
[21:43:22] <alSMT> it works good in the configs for my machine after you help me yesterday
[21:44:30] <alSMT> my base period in demo is 50000
[21:47:49] <fenn> alex_joni: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/boss-penguin.png
[21:48:35] <fenn> i had way too much fun drawing that
[21:48:46] <alSMT> sounds funny but when I load the gui and then not --nogui and then loadusr classicladder I have to close the ladder and then the Tkemc and ladder load no problem donooo
[21:51:28] <alSMT> sorry loadusr -w classicladder - step_demo_cl.clp / loadusr classicladder
[22:05:07] <jepler> alSMT: The "-w" in "loadusr -w classicladder" means "wait until this program exits to continue with the instructions in the .hal file"
[22:05:36] <jepler> so if you start classicladder in a way that it doesn't exit right away, you must omit the -w or the rest of the commands in your hal file (and stuff that happens later, like displaying the tkemc gui) won't happen until you close the window.
[22:06:16] <alSMT> hey I just through an empty file saned as gamepad.hal in the configs and it starts if youn just want to load it
[22:06:28] <alSMT> jepler:ok
[22:07:00] <alSMT> thats for stepper xyza
[22:12:52] <skinnypuppy34> Ok I got it to do it again G2G3 no motion ... http://imagebin.org/11850
[22:13:17] <alSMT> jepler: it still take me a week to load it the ladder that is
[22:13:52] <skinnypuppy34> Tried arcs both in g90 and g91 ij format
[22:15:02] <skinnypuppy34> Clearing the plot didn't help this time, nor resetting f1f2
[22:17:03] <jlmjvm> can you paste your program,ill run it in mine
[22:17:56] <skinnypuppy34> I'm just repeating the same simple g2g3 command in mdi... making my z bracket
[22:18:48] <jlmjvm> what you have in mdi doesnt look right
[22:18:53] <skinnypuppy34> I loaded another .ngc file with arcs in it, ran it fine... works in mdi now too ....
[22:20:24] <skinnypuppy34> x0y0 looks strange but works fine if I - is =radius
[22:21:26] <skinnypuppy34> I also tried in g90 with values compensated and the same thing ...I didn't close emc just open another program ... same lines work fine in mdi now ...
[22:23:06] <jlmjvm> ahh,was forgetting bout the g91
[22:23:29] <fenn> a parallel kinematic sculpture :D http://www.funonthenet.in/images/stories/forwards/Pencil Art/Pencil-Art-5.jpg
[22:23:55] <fenn> oh, stupid URL http://www.funonthenet.in/images/stories/forwards/Pencil%20Art/Pencil-Art-5.jpg
[22:24:28] <fenn> it could just be that i'm obsessed
[22:25:12] <skinnypuppy34> Here's another image with same code working in mdi
[22:25:14] <skinnypuppy34> http://imagebin.org/11851
[22:27:46] <jlmjvm> http://imagebin.org/11852
[22:27:58] <jlmjvm> heres a few arcs
[22:28:14] <jlmjvm> some g18,19 stuff
[22:30:53] <skinnypuppy34> I'll put all this together into one g-code file later tonight and cut some air and see if g2/3 drops out while running a program ... or just an mdi thing
[22:32:43] <skinnypuppy34> Is there a simple way to google for terms in the texts of the chat archives ?
[22:33:03] <fenn> yes, google for site:linuxcnc.org
[22:33:16] <skinnypuppy34> thanks fenn
[22:33:17] <fenn> or use the search box on linuxcnc.org
[22:33:37] <skinnypuppy34> hit me over the head
[22:36:03] <toastyde1th> * toastyde1th womp
[22:56:53] <fenn> does it ever make sense on a cnc mill to use a countersink the way one would use it on a drill press? (just go straight down on the hole)
[22:57:04] <fenn> besides ease of programming
[22:57:45] <fenn> i mean, is it better than going around in a circle
[23:01:10] <anonimasu> yes
[23:01:41] <anonimasu> I take it you mean a tapered countersink..
[23:02:02] <anonimasu> if it's a straight one either way works.. if you have the right dimension
[23:04:22] <anonimasu> fenn: I guess the speed of plunge vs the speed of making the circle..
[23:04:30] <anonimasu> vs the time it would take to change to a proper sized tool
[23:04:36] <anonimasu> and just plunge it..
[23:12:04] <alex_joni> fenn: you still have blender installed?
[23:12:39] <fenn> yes
[23:14:05] <alex_joni> can you look at output (export) types?
[23:14:30] <renesis> haha okay i figured out why my program didnt work earlier
[23:14:38] <renesis> its because i accidentally truncated my brain
[23:14:54] <alex_joni> fenn: does it do anything solid 3d? (acis, iges, step?)
[23:16:18] <fenn> alex_joni: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/random-screenshot5.png
[23:16:27] <fenn> i should probably update my version of blender
[23:19:34] <anonimasu> fenn: does that make sense?
[23:20:30] <fenn> yeah i was just thinking it would be less prone to chatter if you went around in a circle, and it would make the cam algorithm a little easier
[23:21:53] <anonimasu> with a plunging mill it shouldnt make a difference
[23:22:03] <anonimasu> centre cutting or whatever they call it..
[23:22:27] <fenn> well, in theory, there's no difference between theory and practice
[23:23:03] <alex_joni> heh
[23:23:06] <anonimasu> uh..
[23:23:06] <fenn> i find it hard to believe a center-cutting end mill works just as well going straight down as it does in a helix
[23:23:59] <fenn> because it has to 'smoosh' the stuff in the center out of the way
[23:24:14] <anonimasu> bah.. they do plunge roughing all the time..
[23:24:55] <anonimasu> for lots of stuff..
[23:25:06] <fenn> arent those special bits?
[23:26:13] <cradek> center cutting mills definitely don't work as well going straight down
[23:27:06] <anonimasu> fenn: I dont know I dont do plunge roughing..
[23:27:09] <fenn> also there's no "lands" on an endmill like on a drill bit - that seems like it would make it chatter on the sides of the hole
[23:29:26] <anonimasu> also, if you are countersinking a already drilled hole you dont have anything in the centre ;)
[23:29:31] <fenn> right
[23:31:12] <fenn> apparently they usually use special plunge roughing tools, but you can do it (possibly more efficiently?) with a regular end-mill, as long as you dont go over half the diameter (so the center isnt pushing on anything)
[23:32:42] <anonimasu> ok
[23:32:50] <anonimasu> tomorrow is grinding day ^_^
[23:33:42] <fenn> erm, not an end mill, a three flute round insert cutter
[23:37:22] <toastyde1th> plunge roughing is fast as balls
[23:38:14] <anonimasu> 4http://www.ofiengineering.se/News/ArmarKlaraMpg.jpg
[23:38:34] <fenn> toastyde1th: anything has gotta be faster than your "production lapping machine"
[23:38:47] <anonimasu> http://www.ofiengineering.se/News/DAPUtsidaKlar1.jpg
[23:38:50] <anonimasu> im jealous.. :P
[23:38:53] <anonimasu> http://www.ofiengineering.se/News/DAPInsida-LuftinSemi1.jpg
[23:39:03] <toastyde1th> fenn: not machining at all is slower than my production lapping machine!
[23:39:44] <fenn> I can do 100 bogomops :P
[23:39:48] <toastyde1th> hahaha
[23:40:28] <toastyde1th> anonimasu: those are some fancy pictures
[23:40:48] <anonimasu> toastyde1th: www.ofiengineering.se
[23:40:53] <fenn> ah yes, the extra fancy car engine
[23:41:01] <toastyde1th> wow
[23:41:01] <anonimasu> insane..
[23:41:10] <anonimasu> they are crazy about weight..
[23:41:17] <anonimasu> so they machine everything ;)
[23:41:33] <anonimasu> "saved 60g on this part"
[23:41:39] <anonimasu> and they have the skill...
[23:41:41] <anonimasu> *jealous*
[23:41:41] <fenn> tell him to get a gas turbine
[23:42:03] <anonimasu> fenn: now that's really runny when you go to a trackday..
[23:42:22] <anonimasu> funny
[23:43:50] <fenn> or make one of these http://www.starrotor.com/Engine.htm
[23:44:20] <anonimasu> fenn: what's wrong with liking ic engines?
[23:44:27] <fenn> it's wasted effort
[23:45:07] <anonimasu> fenn: that was the most pointless thing I've heard in a long time
[23:45:24] <fenn> they're so highly refined there's no way to get significantly more specific power or efficiency
[23:45:39] <fenn> and its a stupid design to begin with
[23:46:14] <fenn> i mean, a plain journal crankshaft, come on..
[23:46:21] <fenn> at least use a scotch yoke or something
[23:47:24] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[23:47:32] <anonimasu> their machining rocks period.
[23:47:51] <anonimasu> now was there a need to have a stupid rant about what others like to do is pointless?
[23:48:04] <toastyde1th> fenn: you can complain about theory all you want, but until someone puts into viable practice one of those experimental engines
[23:48:23] <toastyde1th> i don't see what the point of dissing one of the most wildly sucessful engineering designs of all time is
[23:49:16] <fenn> it has nothing to do with the engineering and everything to do with market forces
[23:49:22] <toastyde1th> lolz
[23:49:27] <toastyde1th> complain all you want
[23:49:45] <fenn> sorry, i hate bad engineering
[23:50:00] <toastyde1th> sorry, i hate dreamers with no execution
[23:50:07] <fenn> go do something then
[23:50:16] <toastyde1th> id o
[23:50:18] <toastyde1th> *i do
[23:50:44] <toastyde1th> i'd rather have a bad design that I can use than a theoretical design that stays on the drawing board indefinately
[23:50:56] <fenn> but for a race car?
[23:51:06] <fenn> it has nothing to do with practicality
[23:51:08] <anonimasu> fenn: did you somewhere miss the whole point?
[23:51:18] <toastyde1th> fenn: it has everything to do with practicality
[23:52:18] <toastyde1th> until someone proves one of those engines can win races, and win them better than the traditional design
[23:52:26] <toastyde1th> nobody is going to care about it because it's too much risk for to little benifit
[23:52:32] <fenn> until someone does it, then nobody will do it
[23:52:44] <fenn> that's disgusting
[23:52:50] <toastyde1th> EXACTLY. So if you feel so strongly, stop whining about someone else's wildly popular design
[23:52:58] <toastyde1th> and make your own to better it
[23:53:02] <anonimasu> fenn: I think you need to take a shower and think about why people do things..
[23:53:08] <toastyde1th> because hey, if it's such a solid plan, you should have no problem finding investors
[23:53:10] <anonimasu> because they like doing them.
[23:53:26] <anonimasu> fenn: I dont think thoose guys give a shit about gas turbines.
[23:53:38] <anonimasu> even if they would give them more power..
[23:53:47] <fenn> maybe, maybe not
[23:53:51] <toastyde1th> gas turbines were tried
[23:53:52] <toastyde1th> and failed
[23:53:55] <fenn> i bet they dont even know what a gas turbine is
[23:53:57] <toastyde1th> in both dragsters and road cars
[23:54:24] <fenn> toastyde1th: how did they fail hmm?
[23:54:29] <Ziegler> That new stepper config wizard is a nice start
[23:54:32] <toastyde1th> slow throttle response
[23:54:32] <fenn> because they were banned from competing?
[23:54:43] <anonimasu> and becaues they fail spectacularly when they fail..
[23:54:54] <toastyde1th> the power management from the engine was too difficult and cumbersome to implement in a race car
[23:55:05] <fenn> oh, all those complicated electronics oh my!
[23:55:12] <toastyde1th> no, i mean getting the power to the wheels
[23:55:14] <toastyde1th> in any way, period
[23:55:26] <toastyde1th> do your goddamned research before spouting bullshit
[23:55:29] <fenn> hm. i think it's just unrefined
[23:55:41] <toastyde1th> and here you go again
[23:55:43] <anonimasu> fenn: go make a better one..
[23:55:45] <toastyde1th> "i like unicorns"
[23:55:54] <toastyde1th> "we should all run our cars on unicorns"
[23:56:30] <toastyde1th> Show me a practical unicorn!
[23:56:34] <toastyde1th> "Nobody's made one yet!"
[23:56:49] <fenn> did you see the turbine indy car?
[23:56:54] <toastyde1th> i did
[23:56:57] <fenn> the chrysler turbine car
[23:57:00] <toastyde1th> and read the driver interviews
[23:57:07] <fenn> turbonique dragsters
[23:57:17] <fenn> ok that's a rocket, but it kicked the snot out of EVERYTHING
[23:57:30] <toastyde1th> and again
[23:57:36] <fenn> a rocket turbine
[23:57:44] <toastyde1th> i know you like ignoring economics and want to just ENGINEER things
[23:57:51] <toastyde1th> but please, do a little more research
[23:57:54] <fenn> how's it ignoring economics?
[23:57:58] <toastyde1th> oh my god
[23:58:03] <toastyde1th> go read what you've been saying the whole time
[23:58:28] <toastyde1th> you sound like a fanatic
[23:58:43] <fenn> there have been multiple successful race cars incorporating turbine engines, and every time they were too successful and banned from competing
[23:58:45] <toastyde1th> who has decided to selectively ignore reality while overemphasizing what you'd like to have happen
[23:59:12] <toastyde1th> so have a grand time with your armchair engineering
[23:59:25] <toastyde1th> i'm sure you'll make millions in monopoly dolars
[23:59:27] <toastyde1th> *dollars