lol, #freecnc is not what I thought it was
H264: hah -- I guess it is about a video game?
command and conquer?
Command and Co..
heh - haven't played that in a longtime
never played it
it was pretty good. the graphics would seem "dated" now
if I build my own CNC machine, should it be a lathe or mill?
supposedly you can make a lathe with a lathe, but you can't make a mill with a mill
a lathe may actually be easier since there are only two motorized axes (usually)
I'v used a lathe with C axes before
sure, you can use the spindle as an axis, or at least synchronized
or are you talking about a rotating tool turret or that kind of thing?
yeah, live tool kind of thing
well, that's probably not the type of machine to start out building ;)
making wrench flats with no horizontal movements
'cource Y axes would be nice too
[02:22:50] <SWPadnos> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGq-9NNmr3o
ah, but I only want two ways I can put the wrench on
it does that too ;)
I love the marketroid voice-over reading the engrish script
cool machine, eh?
well, time for me to get to bed. have fun building your first machine(s) :)
well, I think I like the dual turret mori seiki we were looking at
with C & Y axes and a C axes sub spindle
crashes must be scary in that thing
I should be getting a 1 to 7 CD copier tower, but will probably want a robotic arm to move disks around
H264: Just find me a (data) DVD jukebox and I'll be happy.
feed me cookies and I'll be happy ;)
so is there _any_ 1.5+ axes CAM program being at least worked on?
(for *nix not counting OSX)
anders wallin had some stl 2.5d thing
here's more stuff, but those two are the most promising i think http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Cam
and APTOS but that's not really CAM i think
ouch, 16,000 lines of C... shoulda made it in Objective-C ;)
the developer seems sorta hard-headed that way
Trying to install in ubuntu dapper drake... but fails with:
emc2: Depends: libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.12.3) but 1.12.2-0ubuntu3 is to be installed
why not 7.10?
Because the instructions say dapper drake
7.10 isnt ready yet
(or ever maybe)
how hard is it to install emc on Ubuntu?
Wowbagger_: try apt-get remove libpango
H264: it's ridiculously easy
if you follow the instructions :)
Wowbagger_: are you sure you have the dapper emc2 package?
cradek: no. I'm just running the script from the wiki.
How can I tell?
Wowbagger_: are you sure you have the dapper install script?
fenn: then why not install it on 7.10?
what did it put in sources.list?
H264: there's a general impression that 7.10 is full of frilly crap that is broken, and it would be best to wait until the next LTS before putting serious work into it
ok... script is the dapper install script (at least this is what it says on the linuxcnc wiki wher eI got it_
ok just checking the obvious first
let me investigate
I have libpango1.0-0 version 1.12.3-0ubuntu3 on my dapper system
It put in deb http://www.linuxcnc.org/emc2/
an the deb-src one
have you run the normal update?
H264: or maybe that's just my impression. but then i use debian, so what does that mean
I'm completely new to ubuntu. What's the normal update?
or use the gui update manager
(that's exactly what it does)
Don't have the gui yet... I'll just do it manually...
if you just installed, you will have a LOT of updates to do
But it was installed 2 days ago, so should be ok.
I bet one of them is pango
installed from what?
i thought dist-upgrade upgraded you to 7.10 (or whatever the latest is)
I don't follow
fenn: no, only incrementally
cradek: I did essentially this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromKnoppix
oh, that's truly bizarre. why not use the ubuntu installer?
Because the bdi one hangs part way through... so I didn't want to bother downloading a ubuntu iso all for not.
And knoppix works on this machine.
bdi has nothing to do with ubuntu...
but whatever :-)
Well, I had no way of knowing that.
well, maybe I did.
you just have some package versioning problems - hard to say what exactly
seems like it should work
anyway... doing dist upgrade.
ok, that sure might help
bit torrent, it's the best way to download any kind of linux (well, at least Ubuntu)
heh... it has nothing to do.
what does `dpkg -l libpango*` say?
hmm... I gotta setup ssh so I can log into that machine remotely.
goodnight, good luck Wowbagger_
What's that filename for?
That's the old version which it is unhappy with.
oops, apt-cache shows both
I think that's a sure sign that an upgrade will fix it
i did an upgrade... it claimed there was nothign to do.
hmm... how can I get apt to install a particular version?
apt-get install package=version
dapper-updates main restricted
dapper-updates main restricted
do you have these?
dapper-security main restricted
dapper-security main restricted
maybe also these
ah... no dapper-updates. maybe that's it.
Mine has "dapper main"
maybe add all three
So delete dapper and put in dapper-updates?
I don't know how they work exactly
keep 'em all
That makes two of us.
it'll pick the newest versions
ok... I'll try
cradek: it looks in that URL for that folder for a special package file
I know, but I don't know how the dapper folks decide what goes where
(I know in general how apt works)
I'm using 7.10 myself ;)
I didn't add the -src entries yet.
grr... public key issues
* cradek whispers http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/21/4/lang,en/
GPG error for www.linuxcnc.org
the install script should fix that
it installs my pub key
It did not
it got a key...
gpg --keyserver pgpkeys.mit.edu --recv-key BC92B87F
gpg -a --export BC92B87F | sudo apt-key add -
It got that key
oh.. my bad
that part appears to have worked.
Back at the libpango problem.
Will try dist-upgrade now
hmm... 89 things to upgrade.
libpango not listed
did you apt-get update first?
I thought I saw the script do that..
hmf.. must have an error in sources.list
doesn't seem to like dapper-updates at the server I'm using
dapper-updates main restricted
dapper-updates main restricted
ya.. I'll try the us ones that you have
update is running
update still fails. Failed to fetch http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/main/dapper-updates/binary-i386-Packages.gz
404 Not found
dapper-updates/main Packages [249kB]
hm.. didn't realize the order mattered (after the http://url)
"dapper-updates main restricted" appears to work
"main dapper-updates restricted" appears not to
Does that make sense?
I'll do a dist-upgrade now.
looking... yup... is there.
hmm, this g-code is a little hard to learn.
is there some sort of 's00pah newbz gide' or something? a lot of the concepts it's telling how to control I've never heard of before.
[04:06:42] <fenn> http://www.linuxcnc.org/handbook/gcode/g-code.html
i just look at the cheat-sheet: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/gcode.html
if you click on the codes it goes into more detail
ooh maybe i should make that into a man-page
* fenn loves man pages
yeah, i think I'm going to end up using some sort of CAM package in the long run, writing the g-code out for each item, testing it, then machining it is going to beslower than a hacksaw and drill press.
I kinda wanna write the one to mill and drill the table by hand, but that'll probably take until i get it built to do.
by all means, get the mill working before you learn g-code
otherwise you end up like me :(
but i have the sim mill to play with, and I can't be out in the garage melting all night, my neighbor already complained about the noise.
noise from melting? that's silly
my furnace is propane powered.
then it should be even quieter
heh, thaere's some turbulence.
then there's my crappy ingot mold that make ingot that need hammered apart...
put a little notch in it with a hacksaw first
or you could make it out of Fantastic Plastic like that other guy :P
they have to be out of the mold almost as soon as they skin, then knocked apart as as soon after that as possible, otherwise you have to put the mold in the crucible to get the Al out.
well.. what can i say. muffin tins?
i thought those stuck?
not in my experience
you could coat them with soot to be sure
i've got ~15lbs of ingots already.
with a candle
um... won't that take a while?
no, not really
i'm going to have to try that, how big are the ingots?
um, muffin sized? :)
mine are ~5oz
yeah about that size
after i mill the table i want to make a steel mold for ingots, just for fun.
one good idea was to put toilet paper tubes into sand, then you get nice cylindrical ingots that you can turn on a lathe
make them are perfectly the same, i hate looking at the stack of odd ones.
oh yeah, i hadn't even thouyght of turning one yet.
i use coconut milk cans as sprues, so i get can-sized cylinders of metal if i pour too much
i use them because they are steel and dont have ridges
right, i've been just making the sprue with my finger and putting them in the cold burn bucket.
dry sand works a lot better
if my burn is a little cold there's still AL left in the dross (like most of my early burns) so I try to throw some of that in when I get a hot burn.
nah just leave it
it's ~30lbs. i was barely hitting mp before.
now a hot burn has dust coming off, most of this stuff is bricks.
your firebricks are burning?
no, the dross that i was pulling off before was like bricks of cold Al
yesterday was a 4.5lb. burn that started off with 6oz of ingot and a TV antenna, the dross out of that was quarter sixed.
weld a spoon on to a rod and smoosh the dross up against the side of the crucible before you scrape it off
before I would get 11-15oz of dross off 60-70 cans.
yeah, my dross plate work like that.
cans and tv antenna arent the best things to melt
but you probably know that
but before when the AL was cooler it would solidify on the edge of the crucible instead of running off.
yeah, they're checp. i'm not going ot and buying ingots to melt.
i'm melt the engine when I get around to it, that'll be the cnc metal.
i like car engine parts best, and wheels are ok
i've got a full AL 60* chevy V6 in the shed, damned crank spun 4 and hthey'd need .090 os bearings.
if you try to machine or file cans/extrusion stuff it will gall up like crazy
it's...~100lbs of AL all told.
half the time you're picking stuff out of the file rather than filing
interesting, cans for casting, engines for machining.
cans for dumb artwork stuff, engines for things that need to be hard and precise
or just take the cans to a scrap yard and get money to buy better scrap :)
they pay more for cans/extrusions actually
yup, that's all i'd cast, my dad really likes the castings. he made an impression of my nephews' hands and an ashtray so far. he doesn't see why I want a cnc in my shed yet.
they pay more for cans as cans than cans as ingots?
well, just imagine it's 1973 and you're working on a computer
rabbitbunny: the cans are higher content alumnium
that's why cans are gummy
eww. i see now.
could I differ that a little? i have copper wire. probably ~300lbs.
if you did a test pour and did the metallurgy on it, a little silicon/copper would get you a very machinable product
what "doing the metallurgy" on it entails i am not so sure
as i've never done it
chomograph i assume.
lots of ways to do it
err... that thing where they burn it and a pc tells you what in it.
density measurement is probably easiest
rabbitbunny: i forget
I believe metallography will also give you an inkling
yeah, i'm not that sceintific about it. it the AL comes out okay i'm happy, if it doesn't i try again.
copper is the main alloy in the 7000 series, makes good stuff
drastically improves toughness and machinability compared to cans
i'd think it would reduce toughness (since its the opposite of machinability)
increases hardness and tensile strength though
toughness does not exclude machinability
it often does
but pure aluminum compared to 7000 series
pure aluminum, not tough, sucks to machine
7000 series, much tougher, dreamy to machine
[04:36:06] <skinnypuppy34> http://principalmetals.com/
well, machinability is sorta subjective
as it's a guesstimated number
how much copper would I put in? i'd assume.... 10cm^3 per 100cm^3...
rabbitbunny: you'd have to look it up, man. i think machinery's handbook has that information
something like 2-5% by mass
the copper doesn't melt, it dissolves
oh wow, i have that much already stripped.
if you strip copper wire it sells for a lot more btw.
7075 is 1-2% copper
i built a little jig to crush the insulation off copper wire.
you can pull it through a hole with a blade set to just cut through the insulation
then you wind the wire on one spool and the insulation on another spool
yeah, but you have to have one for every size. i pump a few strokes on the hydrualic jack and it's set.
the wire goes into one 55gal drum, the insulation another
how does that work? is it a continuous process?
two rollers that squeeze the wire?
i thought there were roller/knife arrangements
so you could just adjust the depth of cut
yes of course
the first roler is part of a winch, it pushes the wire through.
the second has the press on it and crushes it.
when it comes out you direct it at first then it goes on it's own.
if the peice is short you grab what ever and put it where it goes.
oops, copper is 2000 series not 7000
there's two peices of pipe between the two rolers, a 1/2" for small wire and a 3/4" for bigger stuff.
the wire to through the pipe to keep it from bunching.
really my gramps designed most of it, i had the idea nad he had the welder.
jesus, my typos are bad.
i'm starting work on cnc'ing my gingery lathe tonight
smart me decided to wait until it's freezing outside to play with blocks of metal
Gingry has a lot of cool books
yeah, i think he charges for them. that's doesn't really fit in my budget.
i got mine from the library
and they're available in shady corners of the internet
if you're going to be doing casting and building machinery you really ought to at least read them
...oh. over my my place then.
also i wrote up some pages about lost-foam casting and machining etc: http://fenn.dyndns.org/gingery_machines/
aye, that's some nice info.
fenn: seen that magnetic hexapod?
yo i just added a new video of my cnc engraving a zippo lighter to the wiki video section (ohiopctech.com) no sound and bad resolution.. but you can see little chips flying!
[08:23:25] <chr0n1c2> http://youtube.com/watch?v=SnJNXpXvALU
I saw you already added it to the wiki
the photo's are on flickr in my account there... some nice still shots of the lighter...
oh.. does anyone mind if i put the emc tux on the auction for the lighter on my ebay listing? (i mentioned emc2 in the listing)
1 sec on the link
[08:30:36] <chr0n1c2> http://flickr.com/photos/13982050@N08/
it's like 30 thou off center and it's driving me nuts...
most people wouldn't even notice
from the wiki
I think that would be ok
sweet... i thought so...
i'm not selling the tux or the emc
how big is that tip? .015"?
it's a no.1 or no.2 center drill i think...
.. that's minature.
my eyes hurt just thinking about it.
chr0n1c2: pic of the tux you made?
nooo... it's a pic of tux from the wiki in the top right
Jymmm, i think he means more along the advertising that it was made using EMC
chr0n1c2: Ah, I thought you said you weren't selling, because you havd made something with tux on it.
i thought i would mention it here in case anyone came across it on the feebay
chr0n1c2: actually to be fully legit, that pic is copyrighted
by rainea graphics iirc
i did the lighter out of sheer boredom... then decided to put it on feebay
(in the last years, I asked them about using it for various things, and they never objected)
chr0n1c2: if it's too much hassle to ask, you can also use the logo found here: http://cia.vc/stats/project/emc
that's a logo I did (the penguin is drawn by fenn).. so if he doesn't object, it's fine by me
word.. i was looking for a place to ask rainea
it's rainnea actually
[08:40:00] <alex_joni> http://www.rainnea.com/chips.htm
wow... awesome page
I wonder how much it cost him to build the 5 axis router
looks like steppers too
that 80/20 ain't cheap yo
but awful purrrty
if vnc was a bit faster... i could control my machine from here and just put a webcam on it...
get a second machine to do all the webcams, put one on it. one on the front door, one in the yard... X10 it all!
oh um i used to have one whole machine that only answered my phone and took voicemails and sent caller id to the other 4 computers in the house and hung up on private numbers!
it was a 200 mhz with 128 mb ram anda 10 gig drive with a usr 56k caller id modem
only about 400 watss of asted power.. i switched to a cordless digital recorder... ;)
i had a windows 3.1 box i ran for years because there was a ups built into the case. always had the time right.
grrr.. sleeeeeep! later yo
alex_joni: yeah, but it only goes up and down.. not very impressive
unless i missed something
it does rotate .. but it has a limited motion range
six hours later i have a motor mount. now i'm starting to think of how to throw junk together even quicker
i guess i did have to make a bit to bore out the bearing pocket
so the next ones will go much faster
is there usually some trick to making the belt run on center?
i think i'm going to have to make an adjustable pivot set-screw type thingy
next time i make a pulley it will use screws parallel to the axis of rotation, instead of set screws
and that will compress some kind of collet. should be much more compact
pffff "I don't think ethernet components will be low cost enough" and i thought _i_ was a cheap ass
he may mean not the ethernet card, but the box jon/whoever makes that goes on the other end of the wire
I don't see how these can be less than $100-$200 which is an obstacle for a lot of people
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-10-30.txt
i dont see why they have to cost so much
eth PHY = 10, + interface = 10, + PCB + various stuff, + development cost + overhead + distribution costs
easily = 100+
(that was just an example...)
and why are all the open source electronics projects so bad :\
well, not all, but many
I think it's because around half of all people are below average
why is there no apt-get for circuits
there's near-zero cooperation in hardware development
I tried reading "hobbyist electronics" blogs for awhile, and came to the conclusion that it was by mostly-clueless folks looking for ad impressions. They're doing good if they can just copy an example circuit from a datasheet and make an LED flash.
what does 'ad impressions' mean?
people to come to their blogs and then click on the ads
"ad impressions" might be the wrong term; I think that's from the days when you were paid per ad displayed, not per ad clicked.
are there any agreed-to-be-acceptable open hardware licenses yet?
fenn: do you have some 3d cad?
that's one more thing on my project list...
ciao a tutti
qualcuno saprebbe aiutarmi nell'installare ubuntu dal live cd
qualcuno saprebbe aiutarmi ad installere ubuntu?
dal live cd
sorry, most of us speak english here
live cd: http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/21/4/lang,en/
I should have recommended freenode #ubuntu-it
I was too slow figuring out what he wanted
where was jacky when we need him?
haven't seen him for a while.
same here. it has been a month or two
has anyone actually played with the cnctoolkit?
[15:03:33] <skunkworks_> http://www.rainnea.com/cnc_toolkit.htm
it requires 3ds-max]
definitely cool though
Gmax is free - suposidly
The primary limitation of GMAX is no file export, although you can manually copy and paste the G-Code commands from the program's script listener to an external file approx. 10,000 characters at a time.
there's a script grabber that lets you copy the code out (unless that's what you're talking about)
* skunkworks_ probably should get his 3 axis working first..
If you are running ubuntu on a laptop -> eek -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpi-support/+bug/59695
acpi ? who needs acpi :P
It's nice that hardware is so advanced that you can set it to self-destruct
what's amazing is that the hardware manufacturers ship the hardware with self destruct settings
because they have only tested it with windows running which overrides their settings
what's a load cycle?
how often you park the head on your hard drive
oh, the spin down?
mine does it all the time, I think it's a feature...
cradek: actually it's not the same as spin down, you can park the head without spinning down but often they are done together, the problem is that the avg. laptop hdd can only handle 600.000 load cycles
and the default bios settings are so aggressive that your drive will self destruct in less than 1 year, windows overrides this setting by default while linux mentality is "don't mess with the hardware settings unless you have to"
I just checked on my 4 month old laptop, already at 160.000 :(
oh I see that this bug got posted to digg or something, and now everybody is commenting on it. "ubuntu made my wife leave me"
hm, is this really a big issue, and do drives die after the cycles run out?
like 260k ---------- flatline
well, yeah it's a big deal, but do drives always die at thoose numbers?
no, but at those numbers when you send in your dead drive to the manufacturer, they'll say it's your fault
since your laptop drive will die in a year or so no matter what you do, it's best if they can't read off a number that says you were using it out of spec
hm, I've had mine for 3 years now
huh -- now when I load that launchpad.net page there are only 19 comments, not hundreds as before
and "view activity log" goes to a dead page, but maybe that's typical (?)
on the one hand, most of those comments are noise
on the othar hand, I don't like someone "cleaning up" without disclosure
I agree (both)
er, "were noise"
hmm - I just got a smallish HeNe laser (I think) from one of our image setters we scrapped.
with power supply
* jepler drives home
* alex_joni kicks cradek
* alex_joni kicks CIA-22
alex_joni has kicked CIA-22 from #emc
alex_joni: now you've done it
yup, I did
I only get "Waiting for bots to connect..."
[22:28:39] <alex_joni> http://cia.vc/account/bot-cloud/
seems the #emc is coloured red