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[00:15:35] <Roguish> anyone still here? classicladder question?????
[00:16:31] <Roguish> can the W variables be addressed in hal?
[00:17:00] <Roguish> if so, how so?
[00:30:24] <skyfox00> Roguish: I'm still here, but I can't answer your question... Sorry.
[00:32:04] <Roguish> i'm searching all known classicladded docs .......
[01:19:23] <cradek> Roguish: have a certain question maybe I can answer?
[01:19:34] <cradek> I think the docs aren't very great
[01:23:21] <fenn> what are W's? floats?
[01:28:12] <fenn> 32 bits integer
[01:28:40] <cradek> http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg03227.html
[01:29:22] <cradek> ok I guess I didn't know that (all my knowledge, or the knowledge I used to have, is in this message)
[01:29:41] <fenn> chris morley recently added support for a bunch of stuff, i think W is one of those
[01:29:52] <cradek> I don't quite see how ints fit into the ladder paradigm
[01:33:23] <jmkasunich_> they fit poorly
[01:33:27] <cradek> hi jmk
[01:33:31] <jmkasunich_> but PLC makers have squashed them in there
[01:33:33] <jmkasunich_> hi
[01:37:57] <fenn> there should be pins classicladder.0.s32in-* but i dont see where to set that number right away
[01:38:46] <fenn> #define NBR_S32IN_DEF 0^M
[01:38:49] <fenn> #define NBR_S32OUT_DEF 0^M
[01:38:55] <fenn> bah
[01:41:59] <cradek> maybe it's not done
[01:43:06] <fenn> no i found it
[01:43:13] <fenn> Roguish: loadrt classicladder_rt numS32in=30 numS32out=30
[01:43:18] <fenn> or however many you want
[01:43:51] <fenn> there's a problem with unloading the classicladder_rt module
[01:44:17] <fenn> duplicate component name
[01:44:27] <fenn> (when you try to load it again)
[01:44:52] <fenn> and its still in the comp list
[02:00:54] <skyfox00> what is the proper markings for an open-source circuit board?
[02:01:08] <fenn> first, you have to define what an 'open source ciruit board' is
[02:01:17] <fenn> that seems to be the hard part, and afaict nobody has done it yet
[02:01:55] <skyfox00> licenced under a version of the gnu-gpl?
[02:02:11] <cradek> actually I don't think that's hard at all
[02:02:35] <cradek> for example if it's eagle, put a license statement somewhere, and make the eagle files available
[02:03:11] <cradek> it's easy to distribute just about anything in the spirit of the GPL
[02:03:17] <skyfox00> I have limited space, so what would be a good short licence statement?
[02:03:51] <fenn> tinyurl pointing to the source?
[02:03:52] <cradek> do you have space to put "GPL2" or "GPL3" or whatever on the board?
[02:05:01] <skyfox00> cradek: yeah, I have that much room, maybe a little more...
[02:06:40] <cradek> that would permanently affix it to the "object" which I think is important
[02:06:48] <fenn> saying the license doesn't help if you dont know where to get the source
[02:07:22] <cradek> the source is available alongside the object (eagle files alongside a pdf for example)
[02:07:43] <cradek> /bin/true on your system doesn't include or have a pointer to its source
[02:07:56] <fenn> i have a circuit board - hey there's no source next to it
[02:08:07] <fenn> just a dirty old sponge
[02:08:14] <cradek> then you better go looking wherever you got it
[02:08:38] <cradek> because the source was there if the previous guy distributed it according to the license
[02:09:10] <jmkasunich_> etch a URL into the board ;-)
[02:09:33] <cradek> if there's room that would be cool, but it is not necessary in the least.
[02:09:44] <fenn> i highly disagree
[02:09:51] <skyfox00> um, yeah, thats the idea, put the licence and maybe some sort of url...I have yet to find a place to host it though...
[02:18:22] <Guest708> Guest708 is now known as skunkworks
[02:26:22] <skyfox00> well, I think its finnished.
[02:27:58] <skyfox00> is there a repository of custom made emc related boards?
[02:28:23] <cradek> please feel free to use our wiki if you don't have anywhere to host
[02:28:31] <jepler> skyfox00:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
[02:32:38] <skyfox00> hmmm, I have no idea how a wiki works...
[02:32:56] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BasicSteps (I think)
[02:33:01] <SWPadnos> yep
[02:47:59] <Roguish> fenn or cradek: finallly back from dinner and see your comments, thanks
[02:48:30] <Roguish> i want to toggle a switch and set a jog velocity.
[02:49:08] <Roguish> easy to get a W word set in decimal, how to get it to hal?
[02:51:13] <SWPadnos> I'd use a mux2 instead, unless you're calculating the value in CL (rather than just flipping between two predefined values)
[02:53:35] <Roguish> what, set the 'sel' in cl?
[02:53:46] <SWPadnos> or from the switch
[02:53:56] <SWPadnos> but yes, that's the idea
[02:54:19] <SWPadnos> I don't know if there's a way to get a float out of CL - you may be able to get an int, but floats ??
[02:54:50] <Roguish> is there a conversion from int to float?
[02:55:32] <Roguish> fortunately i only want positive values.
[02:55:38] <SWPadnos> I think there isn't one. it's a very simple component to write though
[02:55:56] <Roguish> for a programmer, maybe!
[02:56:26] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:56:28] <Roguish> i know it's a trivial c call.
[02:56:53] <SWPadnos> the "right" way to do it is to have params for scale, offset, max, and min
[02:57:06] <SWPadnos> and then the S32 input pin
[02:57:57] <Roguish> i just need 4 simple values.
[02:58:18] <SWPadnos> mux4 :)
[02:58:33] <Roguish> yeah, i guess...........
[02:59:14] <SWPadnos> I could be wrong though, it might be possible to get a float out of CL (but I'll bet that's a harder programming problem than a scale/converter component :) )
[03:02:04] <Roguish> i ordered a couple of rotary switches today. when they get here it will be more important. i do actually have it working with mux4.
[03:02:44] <SWPadnos> ah
[03:02:57] <SWPadnos> what do you hope to do with CL that isn't being done now, out of curiosity?
[03:03:56] <Roguish> just a simple way to set the jog wheel increment steps.
[03:04:29] <Roguish> easily done already. i am much better at ladder that hal
[03:04:42] <SWPadnos> ah - that's the answer then :)
[03:04:52] <Roguish> frankly, i suck at hal. i guess practice helps.
[03:05:02] <SWPadnos> I hope so
[03:05:52] <Roguish> got most things working, though the docs are pretty spread out.
[03:06:10] <SWPadnos> the EMC/HAL docs?
[03:06:26] <Roguish> yes, and the CL.
[03:06:54] <SWPadnos> ok. if you have any suggestions for how they could be orcanized bette (and/or you'd be willing to help out - hint hint), please let us know
[03:07:02] <SWPadnos> ... organized better ...
[03:07:19] <Roguish> there's developer, integrator, user, and several versions of each......
[03:08:11] <Roguish> i might have a bit of time. my contract job at a DOE contracter just ran out. the DOE is really f'k up with the fiscal '08 budget.
[03:08:21] <SWPadnos> hmmm. there is duplication - I think the HAL manual has the same HAL tutorial as the EMC manual, for instance
[03:08:28] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:08:42] <SWPadnos> Energy or Education?
[03:08:51] <Roguish> energy
[03:09:23] <Roguish> forcasting dumping about 10000 across the 'complex' of national labs, and other contracter,
[03:09:30] <CIA-8> 03fenn 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/classicladder.9: i love writing docs for things i dont understand
[03:09:31] <Roguish> contracters.\
[03:09:33] <SWPadnos> hmmm. you'd think with all the nukular stuff going on that the DOE would have a pretty big budget
[03:10:08] <SWPadnos> (I wonder if people will stop knowing how to spell nuclear now that the president can't say it)
[03:10:42] <skunkworks> I thought it was nukler
[03:11:01] <fenn> nup definitely nukular
[03:11:05] <Roguish> the House, Senate and Pres are in a pissy. doe is taking the lowest budge figure from each of the 3 budgets. so it's about 20% less than expected.
[03:11:14] <SWPadnos> ouch
[03:11:29] <SWPadnos> but then again, that may translate tolower taxes ;)
[03:11:33] <skunkworks> WI doesn't have a budjet yet.
[03:11:38] <SWPadnos> nah - bigger war budgets
[03:11:39] <Roguish> los alamos expects to dump about 2000.
[03:11:42] <SWPadnos> damn
[03:12:01] <Roguish> nearly the same as LLNL (Livermore)
[03:12:06] <SWPadnos> yeah, because if there's one thing you don't need when things get competitive, it's labs and think tanks!
[03:12:23] <fenn> hey maybe you'd rather get a job working on electrostatic inertial confinement fusion reactors
[03:12:30] <SWPadnos> TOKAMAK!
[03:12:30] <fenn> </sarcasm>
[03:12:40] <skyfox00> Roguish: what do you mean by dump?
[03:12:47] <Roguish> fire
[03:12:55] <SWPadnos> cease to employ
[03:12:56] <skunkworks> let go
[03:12:59] <Roguish> layoff in PC lingo
[03:13:02] <skyfox00> oh, rats...
[03:13:14] <fenn> they take them out to a wall behind the dumpster and shoot 'em
[03:13:21] <SWPadnos> "give a pink slip to" in euphemism-speak
[03:13:38] <fenn> "sleep with the fishes" in government leet-speek
[03:13:41] <Roguish> 2 kinds of engineers: have been laid off and will be laid off.
[03:14:14] <Roguish> don't touch the upper management though!!!!
[03:14:24] <fenn> god this classicladder wiki page is pissing me off
[03:14:42] <Roguish> that's the real mushroom. it just keeps growing.
[03:14:58] <fenn> upper management or the wiki?
[03:15:21] <Roguish> check:
http://membres.lycos.fr/mavati/classicladder/
[03:15:46] <fenn> oh i love how it draws a big blank square over half the page
[03:15:47] <Roguish> and:
http://users.teledisnet.be/web/rlo05343/umanual/umanual_for_classicladder.html
[03:22:29] <skyfox00> jepler: you still here?
[03:51:49] <Skullworks-PGAB> Sam - you still around?
[03:53:33] <skyfox00> sombody needs to get all the smart open source programmers together and write the best cam processor in the world
[03:54:54] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah that would be cool - just need a sponsor to supply unlimited coffee, donuts, pizza and beer for the duration.
[03:56:10] <skyfox00> A while back I found a couple of guys who had written a high tech algorithim for roughing... they were just waiting for a big cam project to get started so they could contribute...
[03:57:29] <Skullworks-PGAB> coding isn't too hard - a good usefull CAD/CAM user GUI with WYSIWYG is the hard part.
[03:57:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> for anything beyond 2.5D
[03:58:36] <skyfox00> perphaps I should start one... ecp anyone?(enhanced cam processor... to go with emc)
[03:58:56] <skyfox00> ever heard of blender?
[03:59:22] <Skullworks-PGAB> I got a little box from Geckodrive with little geckos in it...
[03:59:25] <Skullworks-PGAB> yes
[04:00:03] <skyfox00> I guess I should have asked if you have ever used it much...
[04:00:25] <Skullworks-PGAB> Blender's biggist problem is it can't import/export any file formats usefull for CAD/CAM
[04:01:46] <skyfox00> it can be expanded via plugins writen in python... but the real question is, do we realy want a CAM processor that takes mesh objects for input...
[04:01:49] <Skullworks-PGAB> it has a "different" UI
[04:02:22] <Skullworks-PGAB> I used it to make sshort animations years ago
[04:02:35] <Skullworks-PGAB> many years ago
[04:02:56] <skyfox00> its come a long way, very steep learning curve though.
[04:04:00] <Skullworks-PGAB> I don't mind a hard learning curve when working with someone else - trading off techniques we find ( in person)
[04:04:44] <skyfox00> what would the ideal way for definning shapes to send to a CAM processor be?
[04:05:47] <skyfox00> having someone to learn from/with helps a lot...(the ability to learn is likly the only marketable skill I have)
[04:05:53] <Skullworks-PGAB> well for compatability - DXF - IGES and 3DS
[04:06:19] <Skullworks-PGAB> (or what ever Rhino and Solidworks use)
[04:06:33] <Skullworks-PGAB> for that last one
[04:06:44] <SWPadnos> parasolid
[04:07:03] <skyfox00> blender can do dxf/3ds mesh objects, for what ever its worth.
[04:07:05] <Skullworks-PGAB> STL is not good for CAD/CAM input
[04:07:24] <SWPadnos> mesh is useless for CAD
[04:07:37] <SWPadnos> it can be used for CAM though, and usually is with STL
[04:07:50] <SWPadnos> (ie, STL is mesh, and it's often used for a CAM format)
[04:08:00] <Skullworks-PGAB> and STL is cumbersum at best
[04:08:20] <skyfox00> so how do you define a 3D profile the right way in CAD?
[04:08:43] <SWPadnos> you use a kernel like parasolid or IGES
[04:09:08] <SWPadnos> they store formulas for the objects, and recreate the mesh whenever necessary
[04:09:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> I made the mistake of exporting a Hi-def file in STL from Solidworks
[04:09:25] <Skullworks-PGAB> was 1.28TB
[04:09:33] <skyfox00> so in other words, all mathematicly described objects....
[04:09:36] <SWPadnos> so if you zoom in so the entire screen is 1 micron on the part, you'll still get a full resolution plot
[04:09:40] <SWPadnos> yes
[04:09:57] <SWPadnos> it's like saying "circle" instead of saying "36547 lines that look like a circle if you squit"
[04:10:00] <SWPadnos> squint
[04:10:06] <Skullworks-PGAB> my dual Xeons were cooking for 36 hours....
[04:10:17] <SWPadnos> 1.28TB or 1.28 GB ?
[04:10:22] <Skullworks-PGAB> TB
[04:10:30] <skyfox00> kinda like how povray does most of there low level objects...
[04:10:32] <SWPadnos> I'd be surprised if SW could handle anything beyond 32 bits
[04:10:36] <SWPadnos> SW 64?
[04:10:49] <Skullworks-PGAB> Adaptec 39160's and RAIDS
[04:10:50] <SWPadnos> skyfox00, yes
[04:11:28] <skyfox00> povray uses very high precision... any way we could turn it into a CAM processor?
[04:11:43] <SWPadnos> CAD and CAM aren't the same thing
[04:11:49] <Skullworks-PGAB> major rewrtie of the code
[04:11:52] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure which one you're talking about
[04:12:10] <skyfox00> well, it looks like we need a super good CAD/CAM package...
[04:12:21] <SWPadnos> yes. good night! :)
[04:12:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> Povray is more for shading and realistic 3D detail
[04:12:43] <Skullworks-PGAB> than true 3D mathmatical models
[04:13:19] <Skullworks-PGAB> but again - have not used that stuff in a few years
[04:13:30] <skyfox00> but things like boxes, spheres, etc, are all mathematical objects... and it does CSG on those same objects, which might have potential, maybe...
[04:13:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> that goes back to my K6-300MHz days
[04:14:27] <Skullworks-PGAB> Povray wants to follow the angles of light (weighted for multible light sources)
[04:14:52] <Skullworks-PGAB> CAD/CAM needs to lock down the aspect view
[04:14:58] <skyfox00> povray has a trace function(in the newer version) that shoots a ray in any direction you specify and returns the point that it hits an object...
[04:15:04] <fenn> so, seeing as how you can't get a hard disc larger than 1TB yet, you must have had a raid array with at least 2 discs empty to write that file...
[04:15:16] <fenn> which seems highly unlikely
[04:15:39] <Skullworks-PGAB> Seagate Cheetahs - 11 of them per raid
[04:16:04] <Skullworks-PGAB> 2 buses from the 64 bit 39160
[04:16:36] <fenn> pov-ray is a very nice piece of work, but it's not Free (last i checked)
[04:16:41] <Skullworks-PGAB> running on a Dell Precision 530 with dual 2.8GHz Xeons
[04:17:13] <Skullworks-PGAB> 2.5GB RDram (feeel my memory cost pain!)
[04:17:56] <skyfox00> fenn: unless somthing VERY DRASTICK changed in the past year, pov-ray is free, and soon to be open source...(after full rewrite is compleate)
[04:17:56] <Skullworks-PGAB> BTW that system heats my office just fine in winter...
[04:18:11] <fenn> skyfox00: Free not free
[04:18:25] <skyfox00> fenn: um, I dont know the difference...
[04:18:42] <Skullworks-PGAB> Foxx - sometimes its easier to start from scratch
[04:19:40] <Skullworks-PGAB> use existing code for some point of inspirartion but it would be more work to morph it into what is really needed.
[04:19:51] <skyfox00> yeah, I agree.....
[04:20:32] <Skullworks-PGAB> like figuring out the variable structurre...
[04:20:59] <skyfox00> but its way past time someone gave the big CAD/CAM people a run for there money and made them bring there prices down...
[04:21:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> * Skullworks-PGAB is still staring at these geckos, thinking they are just tooo small to be real.
[04:21:43] <skyfox00> real like geckos?
[04:21:46] <skyfox00> live
[04:21:56] <Skullworks-PGAB> Vampires
[04:22:03] <Skullworks-PGAB> and G320's
[04:22:31] <Skullworks-PGAB> oh yeah and one sand bag gecko toy...
[04:23:04] <skyfox00> oh, gecko hard-drives came with a stuffed gecko?
[04:23:30] <Skullworks-PGAB> so I have a step/dir servo drive to play with
[04:23:33] <fenn> 'gecko hard-drives'?
[04:23:44] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah - one in every order
[04:23:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> some sort of gecko toy
[04:24:14] <Skullworks-PGAB> some are refrig magnets
[04:24:23] <Skullworks-PGAB> some are stuffed
[04:24:29] <Skullworks-PGAB> etc
[04:25:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> I just could not resist last months sale...
[04:25:36] <Skullworks-PGAB> now I guess I'll have to build something to use them on.
[04:26:35] <skyfox00> * skyfox00 still doesnt know exactly what kind of gecko is being currently talked about...
[04:26:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> I still think I want to use Jon's Servo Amps and USC for my Seig X3
[04:26:58] <fenn> its a thing that powers motors and it comes with a toy gecko
[04:27:05] <fenn> also known as a 'drive'
[04:27:22] <Skullworks-PGAB> http://www.geckodrive.com/product.cfm?pid=13
[04:27:22] <fenn> back in the old days when hard discs were made of hard discs, they had servo drives in them
[04:27:28] <skyfox00> power driver?(big FET's)
[04:27:43] <Skullworks-PGAB> MOSFET's IIRC
[04:28:14] <skyfox00> ok, now I get it... COOL!
[04:28:14] <Skullworks-PGAB> when you hit like 108V they start the fireworks
[04:28:24] <fenn> well, they still do have servo drives in them, but people who own hard drives dont know what a servo is anymore
[04:28:56] <skyfox00> do they do PID inside, or are they just the POWER aspect?
[04:29:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> sure - its what moves there mirros in there cars
[04:29:43] <Skullworks-PGAB> they have PID trim pots
[04:29:45] <fenn> no no it's the thingy that steers the remote control car
[04:30:10] <skyfox00> so they do analoge PID?
[04:30:13] <Skullworks-PGAB> but the following error is factory preset to 128 encoder counts
[04:30:29] <Skullworks-PGAB> which is not so hot
[04:31:15] <skyfox00> So how is the Seig X3? (any comments on the X2?)
[04:31:44] <Skullworks-PGAB> I really like the X3 - It was a pleasnat surprise
[04:32:13] <Skullworks-PGAB> X2 is just too flimsy for milling
[04:32:36] <skyfox00> so the X3 is realy worth $1k?
[04:32:42] <Skullworks-PGAB> ok for curcuit boards
[04:32:48] <Skullworks-PGAB> I think so
[04:32:55] <Skullworks-PGAB> and its less
[04:33:16] <Skullworks-PGAB> mine was like $940 with delivery
[04:33:23] <Skullworks-PGAB> from Grizzly
[04:33:34] <skyfox00> hmmm, they are comming down fast.
[04:33:59] <Skullworks-PGAB> not really - the CNC ready models have almost doubled in price
[04:34:17] <Skullworks-PGAB> Chicon.gov has cut subsities
[04:34:36] <fenn> =)
[04:34:37] <skyfox00> dont they just CNC adapter place on them?
[04:34:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> I expect prices to go up
[04:34:57] <fenn> they got dams to pay for
[04:35:09] <Skullworks-PGAB> not all - they are now doing a factory ready CNC model
[04:35:09] <skyfox00> (add CNC adapter plates, rather)
[04:35:56] <skyfox00> do you realy think they can do a better job than you can at making it CNC ready? ;)
[04:36:12] <fenn> that's never the issue
[04:36:25] <fenn> the question is whether they can get a better value/cost ratio than you
[04:37:02] <Skullworks-PGAB> the Smithy CNC model 622 is using that
[04:37:10] <skyfox00> true, I guess some people dont have excesive time...
[04:37:42] <Skullworks-PGAB> or access to machines to build there own adaptors
[04:39:27] <Skullworks-PGAB> My problem is getting "GOOD" ballscrews at a decent price.
[04:40:30] <skyfox00> I'm I to gather that CNC is somewhat toyish untill you have ballscrews?
[04:41:14] <fenn> it's just a big pain in the butt that's all
[04:41:26] <skyfox00> due to lash?
[04:41:29] <fenn> yes
[04:41:58] <skyfox00> and adjustable nuts on the leadscrew dont realy help much?
[04:42:05] <fenn> either you have to adjust anti-lash nuts constantly, or there's a maximum cutting force before the nut flexes
[04:42:58] <skyfox00> well, an X3 has still got to be less dinky than a sherline ;)
[04:44:57] <Skullworks-PGAB> way less
[04:45:34] <Skullworks-PGAB> and the screws that come with it are good enough for beginner CNC
[04:46:38] <skyfox00> I am starting to think I should either forget the sherline and get a job so I can get a REAL mill, or get out of machining entirely...
[04:47:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> Its just that I've been spoiled by running Mori Seiki VMC's that rapid at 1250 IPM and repeat to .00005 all day - everyday... for the last 10 years.
[04:47:47] <Skullworks-PGAB> I would be thread milling bores etc
[04:48:23] <Skullworks-PGAB> I think that way because I used to doing it with what I have at work
[04:48:41] <fenn> you cant do threadmilling on a sherline?
[04:48:53] <Skullworks-PGAB> so I know I can't cut 3/8" deep with a 6" facemill
[04:49:13] <Skullworks-PGAB> but I do have some expectations
[04:49:25] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah you can
[04:49:49] <Skullworks-PGAB> but your limited by your y axis size
[04:50:16] <fenn> naturally
[04:50:23] <Skullworks-PGAB> not going to make any 8" lense mounts...
[04:50:37] <fenn> who has 8" lenses anyway?
[04:50:56] <fenn> or do you mean focal length?
[04:51:16] <Skullworks-PGAB> um it was for a SR71 - during Desert shield... Microscope threads... long story...
[04:51:25] <fenn> i see
[04:51:47] <skyfox00> the sherline that I am trying to aquire is only 3.5" from the z-axis way to the spindle center... so yeah, only small stuff.
[04:51:53] <Skullworks-PGAB> I work just on the other side of the Fense from Peterson AFB
[04:53:03] <skyfox00> now theres an idea, get my ged and join the miltiary... they have machine shops, etc... might be able to learn machining the right way.
[04:53:50] <fenn> nope you'll be shoveling chips all day
[04:53:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> and back then we were on a approved vendor list for Norad cheyenne mountain facilty work
[04:54:23] <skyfox00> fenn: thats work though, and last I checked, it payed sorta...
[04:54:40] <Skullworks-PGAB> only way you might learn amchine trade today is in the navy
[04:55:14] <skyfox00> yeah but I think there max age limit is 25 or so
[04:55:14] <Skullworks-PGAB> and most of that is outsource to civies too
[04:55:25] <fenn> skyfox00: get a computer job, easy to bullshit your way into a decent paying job, and you wont be dodging bullets
[04:56:12] <skyfox00> you know anyone who needs someone with reasonable linux skills/basic C programmin?
[04:56:49] <fenn> check with hospitals around
[04:56:59] <fenn> read up a bit on SQL first
[04:57:28] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah - just like our IT admin - who BS'ed his way into the job and then paniced when he found out the use a Novel Email server a Linux file server and too many other Win XP boxes all duct tape and bailing wired togather...
[04:58:35] <Skullworks-PGAB> oh yeah 3 seperate Acess database servers
[04:58:53] <Skullworks-PGAB> its all crap
[04:58:55] <fenn> if one database is good, three must be 2^3 times better!
[04:59:17] <skyfox00> fenn: I dont have any way to easly check with the 1 hospital that is within 100 miles from here...
[04:59:27] <fenn> skyfox00: do you not have a telephone?
[04:59:29] <Skullworks-PGAB> different data bases for diff dept
[04:59:37] <fenn> perhaps you could write an email
[05:00:10] <skyfox00> fenn: not personaly, besides, I HATE talking on the phone... nearly a phobia kinda...
[05:00:27] <fenn> just imagine you're getting paid to do it
[05:00:37] <Skullworks-PGAB> phone... I put that away next to the key set for my old telegraph
[05:00:49] <Skullworks-PGAB> phones...
[05:00:59] <fenn> yeah the thing that makes the really annoying noise randomly
[05:01:12] <Skullworks-PGAB> I used to get paid to support M$ - I still have the scares
[05:01:23] <skyfox00> M$ does that...
[05:02:05] <Skullworks-PGAB> specially when you have to tout the party line instead of telling them there really is a simple easy way.
[05:03:08] <Skullworks-PGAB> I went back to doing machine work - its a dirty job - but its honest and I sleep better.
[05:04:46] <skyfox00> I live under a large rock becuse I sleep better ;)
[05:05:05] <skyfox00> ok, speaking of sleep, gota go get some now, cya!
[05:05:24] <fenn> i bet your mother is a washing machine too :)
[05:07:33] <skyfox00> fenn: if there was humur there, I missed it...
[05:07:47] <fenn> its just part of my mental picture, please ignore
[05:08:30] <Skullworks-PGAB> sleep for me too.
[05:08:41] <skyfox00> oh, my reference to living under a rock should have been, that I sleep better under said rock... oh well, I'm tired, night...
[05:08:52] <fenn> * fenn jumps on the bandwagon
[05:23:26] <Roguish> night, thanks.
[06:58:20] <anonimasu> toast: bleh
[06:58:30] <anonimasu> I cut something hard yesterday
[06:58:38] <anonimasu> cast steel..
[06:59:57] <anonimasu> it sounded FRP FRP FRP when the endmill hit..
[07:00:35] <anonimasu> nasty material.
[07:13:19] <toast> anonimasu: nice
[07:13:31] <toast> also goodnight
[07:26:14] <anonimasu> hehe
[07:26:15] <anonimasu> not nice
[07:26:17] <anonimasu> it was scary..
[07:26:37] <anonimasu> after 3 pices the endmill was dull..
[11:43:22] <highoctane> Hello out there! Is there anybody listening this morning.
[11:44:59] <highoctane> I have a question. I have a AMD K62-100 with 32mb of ram and a 20 gig hard drive. It has a ISA LPT parallel port card with all three ports. Is this a good machine to run EMC?
[11:46:31] <anonimasu> highoctane: no
[11:46:54] <anonimasu> you need more ram
[11:47:04] <highoctane> I'm sorry... Not K62-100 it's a K62-500.
[11:48:21] <highoctane> How much ram is recommended? I know Ubuntu takes a recommended 192Mb. But can you run EMC on a lower-overhead distribution of Linux?
[12:00:54] <anonimasu> You still wont get away with less then what you need for a standard ubuntu kernel
[12:06:18] <highoctane> anonimasu: O.K., Thanks. I'll just get fixed up with plenty-o-ram, then.
[12:09:04] <anonimasu> and im not sure what pulserate it will do..
[12:09:16] <anonimasu> there are other people here that knows that better then I do..
[12:11:56] <highoctane> Anonimasu: I guess I need to give that some thought before I spend money on that box, huh?
[12:14:58] <anonimasu> you cna read about boxes suitabel for emc at the wiki I think
[12:15:22] <anonimasu> can
[12:57:40] <alex_jon1> highoctane: if you want to run X, you need something about 128MB at least
[12:57:48] <alex_jon1> (on a modern distro)
[12:58:28] <alex_jon1> highoctane: what you could try, is download the puppy version of emc2 (but that is severely outdated, and there is no easy way to update)
[13:01:45] <highoctane> alex_jon1: Ill just use a different system, I guess. Unless I find some surplus ram someplace. I just thought I might could use the system to experiment some. Sounds like I need more ummmph!
[13:12:17] <anonimasu> highoctane: well, you are missing out on lots of things.. :p
[13:17:50] <alex_jon1> highoctane: I am sure you can use that machine with emc2, but it takes a LOT of time to set it up
[13:18:29] <alex_jon1> a kernel recompile on that machine is about 3-4 hours I bet
[13:18:36] <alex_jon1> and you never get it right the first time :P
[13:20:27] <alex_jon1> alex_jon1 is now known as alex_joni
[13:51:33] <anonimasu> :)
[13:51:48] <anonimasu> im so happy I dont need to machine anymore of that steel
[13:52:45] <anonimasu> scary shit.
[14:22:33] <lewin1> lewin1 is now known as lewing
[15:07:03] <highoctane> jepler: you available?
[15:10:49] <highoctane> Anyone: Anyone here ever installed Skencil on Ubuntu 6.06?
[15:15:07] <cradek> there is a package "sketch" in universe that I think has something to do with skencil
[15:17:09] <highoctane> cradek: I've been trying to install skencil, starting with its prerequisites... one of which is the python imaging library. I cannot get the imaging library to install. I keep getting the message "unable to execute gcc: No such file or directory". What is gcc? Where can i find it?
[15:18:24] <SWPadnos> try apt-get build-dep <whatever the python imaging library package name is>
[15:18:34] <SWPadnos> also apt-get build-essential
[15:18:51] <SWPadnos> (Ubuntu is probably the first unix-like OS to ship with no compiler by default)
[15:19:17] <highoctane> SWPadnos: Oh... I don't have the compiler yet?!?
[15:19:24] <cradek> SWPadnos: ha! haven't used many commercial unixes?
[15:19:38] <archivist> ew cheapskates
[15:19:56] <highoctane> Cradek: I am a newbie to linux.
[15:20:19] <SWPadnos> well, in the old days, you'd get a compiler with the OS, and software was distributed as source code, on tape :)
[15:20:29] <SWPadnos> and you'd compile it for your system
[15:20:33] <highoctane> Do I have to be in a special folder before I execute apt-get build-dep etc
[15:20:44] <SWPadnos> no
[15:20:49] <cradek> no, and you can also use synaptic if that's easier
[15:21:02] <SWPadnos> you can't build-dep with synaptic
[15:21:12] <cradek> oh really? hmm.
[15:21:16] <SWPadnos> I think not
[15:21:21] <cradek> that's silly then
[15:22:20] <SWPadnos> yes
[15:23:06] <SWPadnos> side note: running "gksudo synaptic" in a remote terminal on a cygwin/X install does interesting things to your screen
[15:23:28] <SWPadnos> it's amazing how slow the "background fade" is on a slower computer over the network
[15:24:08] <highoctane> SWPadnos: Neither of those commands work for me. build-dep comes back with "unable to find a source package for libgss-dev" and build-essential says "Invalid operation build-essential"
[15:24:25] <SWPadnos> you missed the word install in the build-essential line
[15:24:31] <SWPadnos> the full line is:
[15:24:39] <SWPadnos> sudo apt-get install build-essential
[15:24:50] <SWPadnos> actually, I missed the word install ;)
[15:25:03] <SWPadnos> and then:
[15:25:19] <SWPadnos> sudo apt-get build-dep <that-python-package>
[15:27:53] <highoctane> SWPadnos: Thanks... build-essential is installing now...
[15:28:02] <SWPadnos> great
[15:28:41] <SWPadnos> you may not need to do the build-dep step. try just installing skencil and see if the python problem has gone away with the compiler installed
[15:35:30] <highoctane> SWPadnos... now when i run the python setup.py install i get oodles of compile errors. So, I tried apt-get build-dep... I'm not sure I understand what that does...
[15:35:49] <Adam1_> Hello
[15:36:21] <SWPadnos> it installs "build dependencies" - packages needed to build the package you specified
[15:38:17] <highoctane> Oh... What is the syntax for the package name.... include the tar.gz and all?
[15:38:39] <SWPadnos> err - not normally
[15:38:43] <SWPadnos> and packages aren't .tgz files
[15:38:52] <SWPadnos> they're .deb files
[15:39:06] <SWPadnos> normally you specify the package name only
[15:41:52] <highoctane> SWPadnos: My terminal entry: sudo apt-get build-dep Imaging-1.1.6 ... The result: Unable to find a source package for Imaging-1.1.6 What do you think I'm doing wrong?
[15:42:46] <SWPadnos> this is a net-connected PC right?
[15:43:12] <jepler> "apt-get" is for use with Ubuntu / debian package names. Imaging-1.1.6 is not the name of an ubuntu package.
[15:43:26] <jepler> the debian package name is probably python2.4-imaging or python-imaging
[15:43:47] <jepler> "apt-get build-dep xxx" installs the requirements to build xxx, so that's not what you want -- you want "apt-get install python2.4-imaging"
[15:44:12] <SWPadnos> he was getting an error when installing something that said "gcc not found" or similar
[15:44:19] <jepler> build-essential
[15:44:22] <jepler> install build-essential
[15:44:28] <jepler> apt-get install build-essential
[15:44:28] <SWPadnos> so I figured build-essential and maybe build-dep were needed
[15:44:36] <SWPadnos> that's done now :)
[15:45:35] <jepler> so .. read the error messages and figure out what is needed. Install it. repeat.
[15:45:45] <highoctane> SWPadnos & jepler: it worked when I entered sudo apt-get build-dep python-imaging.. One step further. Thank you.
[15:46:02] <SWPadnos> so apt-get install python-imaging should work now
[15:46:22] <SWPadnos> or just go straight to apt-get install skencil
[15:46:27] <highoctane> It did... Thank you.
[15:46:33] <SWPadnos> (since that's what you originally wanted)
[15:47:19] <SWPadnos> you don't need to deal with these things in general. but as jepler said, if there's an error, you fix the error (in this case by installing the compiler), then re-try the original operation (in this case installing skencil)
[15:47:42] <SWPadnos> you don't need to manually install all of the packages needed by skencil, that's what apt does for you
[15:49:35] <highoctane> I'm starting to get the picture. I'm also starting to like Linux. Now, if it will only like me in return.
[15:49:50] <SWPadnos> I'm sure it likes you. it just doesn't say it all the time :)
[16:01:38] <Adam1_> SWPadnos this is my X-axis Error at 150ipm
http://imagebin.org/10671 (scale is 1m), so about 0.001in at constant velocity and 0.002in at acceleration.
[16:01:59] <Adam1_> Ive tried and tried to make that better but thats all I can get.
[16:02:32] <Adam1_> # PID tuning params
[16:02:32] <Adam1_> DEADBAND = 0
[16:02:32] <Adam1_> P = 70
[16:02:32] <Adam1_> I = 0
[16:02:32] <Adam1_> D = -.0001
[16:02:33] <Adam1_> FF0 = 0
[16:02:35] <Adam1_> FF1 = 2.5
[16:02:35] <Adam1_> BIAS = 0
[16:02:51] <Adam1_> I loath PID
[16:04:15] <cradek> D should not be negative
[16:04:32] <cradek> add a little D and it will stop ringing
[16:04:49] <Adam1_> I will try
[16:04:57] <cradek> your FF1 seems very high, try setting it to 0 for now
[16:05:21] <Adam1_> FF1 was the best thing that ever happened to that error
[16:05:21] <cradek> try D .5, 1, 1.5, ... you will find a sweet spot
[16:08:14] <xemet> hi
[16:08:30] <xemet> a friend of mine tried to compile EMC2-TRUNK run inplace
[16:08:36] <xemet> and got this error:
[16:08:46] <xemet> Linking python module _tk_seticon.so
[16:08:59] <xemet> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lXmu
[16:09:07] <xemet> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
[16:09:16] <xemet> make: *** [../lib/python/_tk_seticon.so] Error 1
[16:09:32] <xemet> I think some dependency is no satisfied
[16:09:44] <xemet> can you remember me the command to download all dependencies?
[16:10:05] <cradek> chris@rover:~$ apt-file search libXmu
[16:10:05] <cradek> libxmu-dev: usr/lib/libXmu.a
[16:10:49] <xemet> there was a command to install all EMC2 dependencies before trying to compile
[16:10:57] <xemet> dep....
[16:11:05] <xemet> something
[16:11:17] <cradek> apt-get build-dep emc2
[16:11:21] <xemet> OK
[16:11:25] <jepler> apt-get build-dep emc2, or apt-get build-dep emc2-cvs-build-dep for building CVS
[16:11:34] <jepler> but that may install packages you don't care about, such as those required to build documentation
[16:11:44] <xemet> do you think this will solve the problem?
[16:11:50] <jepler> yes
[16:12:35] <rayh> does that build-dep still fail if they don't have universe in the apt sources list?
[16:12:39] <jepler> yes probably
[16:18:59] <highoctane> SIDE NOTE: anybody know where i can find tk.h (header files for tk, I assume)?
[16:21:30] <toast> fff
[16:25:24] <rayh> They would be in the tk development package. What do you need them for?
[16:25:30] <jepler> highoctane: if you install "apt-file", then you can use it to find out what package any file comes from
[16:26:36] <jepler> sudo apt-get install apt-file; sudo apt-file update; apt-file search /tk.h
[16:31:56] <jepler> or rather: apt-file -F search tk.h | grep /tk.h
[16:31:59] <jepler> otherwise you get files you don't care about
[16:33:09] <highoctane> I found them, finally. (the tk tcl headers) They are in /usr/include/tcl8.4 However, when i try to execute python setup.py install from the python imaging folder, the compiler can't find those files, and I don't know where to put them so the compiler can find the headers.
[16:39:55] <highoctane> Nevermind... I got it ... copied the contents of the tcl8.4 folder into the /usr/include folder, and the compiler found them.
[16:50:57] <highoctane> Well... now I have skencil installed... I don't know how to start it. Nothing in the manual tells me how to start the program? I feel like an idiot!
[17:00:49] <jepler> possibly by typing "skencil" or "/usr/local/bin/skencil" in the terminal
[17:08:09] <highoctane> Jepler: I found it... it is in /usr/bin/sketch (a link to a python script)... It gives me errors... fun. fun...
[17:09:02] <highoctane> It says "function takes 4 arguments, 8 given" ... almost there, but Im stuck.
[17:13:37] <jepler> sounds like the program is simply buggy
[17:36:10] <fenn> Adam1_: 0.002" following error at 150 ipm is pretty good
[17:48:45] <fenn> it shouldn't be jerky though
[18:10:10] <Adam1_> yeah, we arent gonna get too much bettter
[18:10:54] <Adam1_> do you know how we can add a function (a toggle on emc, or a button on the joypad) to zero the readouts?
[18:42:03] <JymmmEMC> http://www.gibbstech.co.uk/mediacentre/quadski_low.php
[18:51:25] <alex_joni> Adam1_: you need to start halui
[18:51:34] <alex_joni> and link a button to axis.*.home
[19:08:42] <Adam1_> does that just send the machine to home though?
[19:09:00] <Adam1_> i want to be able to set whatever position im currently at to zero (without just restarting emc)
[19:09:19] <alex_joni> then you need to use touch-off inside the GUI
[19:09:34] <alex_joni> or use the latest feature in halui to send a MDI command
[19:10:31] <alex_joni> G54 something..
[19:11:23] <skunkworks_> probably g10mumbles
[19:12:29] <alex_joni> g10 L2 P1 X0Y0Z0
[19:12:38] <skunkworks_> yes :)
[19:12:39] <alex_joni> that should set G54 coords to zero
[19:13:14] <Adam1_> ok thanks... can i set that command to a button within a config?
[19:13:19] <alex_joni> yes
[19:13:28] <alex_joni> although only after 2.2.0, or with emc2 TRUNK
[19:13:28] <skunkworks_> that is cool.
[19:15:34] <Adam1_> g10 L2 P1 X0Y0Z0 isnt working :(
[19:16:30] <alex_joni> Adam1_: well, I guess my g-code knowledge sucks :D
[19:16:37] <alex_joni> use the manual :)
[19:16:39] <Adam1_> ill figure it out
[19:16:55] <skunkworks_> is it p2L1?
[19:17:06] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ doesn't rememeber
[19:17:10] <Adam1_> so how do i link G code commands to a pin?
[19:17:23] <alex_joni> halui.mdi-command-01 .. halui.mdi-command-XX
[19:17:57] <alex_joni> net mdi01 parport.0.pin-127-in halui.mdi-command-00
[19:18:04] <alex_joni> net mdi01 parport.0.pin-128-in halui.mdi-command-01
[19:18:06] <alex_joni> etc
[19:18:13] <alex_joni> and in the ini file you put:
[19:18:56] <alex_joni> MDI_COMMAND = G10 ..
[19:18:59] <alex_joni> MDI_COMMAND = G11 ..
[19:19:01] <alex_joni> etc
[19:20:19] <Adam1_> thanks
[19:23:45] <skunkworks_> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/gcode.html
[19:24:36] <skunkworks_> http://www.linuxcnc.org/handbook/RS274NGC_3/RS274NGC_33a.html#1002552
[19:28:04] <skunkworks_> hmmm - concrete guys called - they may be setting the forms today.
[19:28:06] <skunkworks_> yah
[19:28:44] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks better hurry up and sell the engraver to pay em! ;)
[19:28:51] <skunkworks_> heh
[19:31:29] <skunkworks_> msg JymmmEMC
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=46744&item=320155952581
[19:31:34] <skunkworks_> heh
[19:31:39] <skunkworks_> well there you go.
[19:32:12] <skunkworks_> I really need to clean off my desk so I can message correctly
[19:33:29] <skunkworks_> JymmmEMC: see above
[19:34:42] <JymmmEMC> looking...
[19:41:01] <fenn> SWPadnos: ever heard of the open graphics project?
http://wiki.duskglow.com/tiki-index.php?page=OGD1&PHPSESSID=c24b944a73bcd45896b0854f8bfc09e2
[19:42:51] <fenn> woah 'artwork designed by Terry Hancock.'
[19:43:49] <alex_joni> I think it's featured at some fpga sites too
[19:44:24] <SWPadnos> yes, I think I've heard of that
[19:44:37] <SWPadnos> in fact, I think it came from a disussion on LKML several years ago, which I took part in
[19:44:41] <SWPadnos> discussion
[19:46:58] <JymmmEMC> OH FUCK!!!!!
[19:47:18] <JymmmEMC> My Ubuntu box is infected with Win32 virus!!!
[19:47:27] <SWPadnos> running wine as root, are we?
[19:47:43] <JymmmEMC> (click the porn like at the bottom of that page fenn gave)
[19:47:55] <SWPadnos> um, no thanks
[19:47:59] <alex_joni> porn link?
[19:48:26] <fenn> i see babelfish, php, etc
[19:48:28] <alex_joni> same here
[19:48:40] <SWPadnos> German: OGD1 nude celebs disney porn ...
[19:48:52] <Adam1_> excellent
[19:48:56] <SWPadnos> inside the wikiarea, not the bottom gray bar
[19:49:00] <alex_joni> ahh
[19:49:20] <alex_joni> lol
[19:50:04] <JymmmEMC> Well, those links give a lot of creditability to the project, don't they
[19:50:19] <Adam1_> haha, at least theyre subtle
[19:50:44] <JymmmEMC> If I was on M$, I might be scared, it looks very realistic
[19:51:57] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, what are you talking about?
[19:52:04] <SWPadnos> what looks very realistic?
[19:52:20] <JymmmEMC> click on the 'nude celebs' link
[19:52:46] <fenn> yes it really does look like britney spears
[19:52:47] <SWPadnos> err - why?
[19:53:29] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: you'll see what i mean
[19:53:41] <SWPadnos> ok - yes, it looks very nice :)
[19:53:52] <JymmmEMC> click it bitch!
[19:53:57] <SWPadnos> don, bastid
[19:53:59] <SWPadnos> done
[19:54:15] <SWPadnos> I've removed all the malware it detected from this machine. good thing I 'm safe now!
[19:54:31] <JymmmEMC> lol
[19:56:46] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Funny thing, is you had to dl the EXE file to remove all that =)
[19:57:46] <JymmmEMC> I still dont get why those links are on that project's page
[20:00:32] <fenn> to raise the porn site's google ranking
[20:00:46] <fenn> it's a wiki
[20:04:06] <SWPadnos> that's why we have a super-secret password for our wiki
[20:04:56] <fenn> i think you have to register on that wiki anyway
[20:20:18] <highoctane> Fellas... Have any of you ever using Skencil for Dapper? I have been racking my brian for four or five hours and I just can't seem to get it. Any thoughts?
[20:20:56] <Adam1_> im having troubles running g-code from a hal file... halui.mdi-command-0 doesnt seem to exist...
[20:21:15] <skunkworks_> Adam1_: are you running trunk?
[20:21:35] <Adam1_> :S
[20:25:16] <Adam1_> so whats this trunk you speak of?
[20:26:43] <Guest728> Guest728 is now known as skunkworks___
[20:27:45] <skunkworks___> Adam1_: what version of emc are you running?
[20:27:58] <Adam1_> no idea, is it the version of Axis?
[20:28:25] <Adam1_> axis is 2.1.7
[20:28:46] <skunkworks___> ah - then as alex said - you will need to run trunk or wait for the 2.2 release.
[20:29:00] <Adam1_> ok, whats trunk?
[20:29:09] <fenn> the current development version
[20:29:12] <Adam1_> i see
[20:29:20] <alex_joni> good night all
[20:29:55] <fenn> Adam1_:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#On_Ubuntu_5_10_and_6_06_from_source
[20:29:58] <skunkworks___> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#On_Ubuntu_5_10_and_6_06_from_source
[20:30:00] <skunkworks___> aw
[20:30:05] <skunkworks___> ;)
[20:30:21] <skunkworks___> nigt alex
[20:30:26] <skunkworks___> night
[21:48:58] <lewin1> lewin1 is now known as lewing
[22:16:17] <dmess> hi all
[22:43:30] <dmes1> hi all
[23:38:34] <JymmmEMC> howdy
[23:39:12] <jlmjvm> JymmmEMC:howdy
[23:39:47] <jlmjvm> just wanted to report that the hurco is alive
[23:40:05] <JymmmEMC> hurco???
[23:40:34] <jlmjvm> a retrofit im doing for a trade school,powered it up today
[23:40:40] <JymmmEMC> ah
[23:41:12] <jlmjvm> all i gotta do is finish up,lol
[23:41:54] <jlmjvm> these things have a habit of turning into a lot of work
[23:42:38] <JymmmEMC> bha where's the terminal client in ubuntu?!
[23:43:49] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: !!!
[23:45:18] <JymmmEMC> bah, nm
[23:47:03] <Ziegler> applications > accessories > terminal
[23:47:13] <Ziegler> or ALT + F2
[23:47:32] <Ziegler> err....
[23:47:37] <JymmmEMC> close, apps internet
[23:47:45] <Ziegler> CTRL + ALT + F2
[23:47:51] <JymmmEMC> terminal client
[23:48:26] <Ziegler> ahhhh
[23:48:40] <Ziegler> hehe... thought you were just looking for a ternminal
[23:49:02] <JymmmEMC> yeah, confusing =)
[23:49:05] <Ziegler> Thought it was a bit of a silly question
[23:51:31] <JymmmEMC> Needed to dl and burn an iso, but burner on another machine, so just term served to it instead.
[23:53:14] <JymmmEMC> the ultimate in way too lazy to walk to the other room =)