fenn: The center line, but I gotta attach the shield "somewhere"
shield/ground wire of the feedline
Maybe I'll just get some single side PCB and connect the shiled to that. Might act as a good ground plane too.
gcode doesnt have polar motion like heidenhain , nor centers, its not lacking in emc, its missing in gcode (ec CC X1. Y1. LP R10 A45 describes a 'pole' and a ray of motion from that pole )
polar is real handy
so CC X1 Y1 describes a cylindrical coordinate centerpoint at 1,1
polar is handy...
SWPadnos: yes, a pole
and LP R10 A45 means move 10 units from center, at a 45 degree angle
but the CC command doesn't cause motion, it's like a G5x offset (sort of)?
or more like a G17/G18/G19
SWPadnos: yes, apole is just a reference
can be 3 coords XYZ
CC command for emc yes no?
is that truly polar, or cylindrical?
CC probably not until the language is redefined
i dont se any cyclinder in it, i use short 3D vctors all around a pole myself, more spherical than cylindrical\
C = the C axis, and RS274NGC explicitly states that whitespace is irrelevant and is removed before interpretation
tomp2, ok, so can you do LP R 10 A45 B45, or would it be LP R10 A45 Z5 ?
ie, are Z coordinates still used (cylindrical coordinate system), or theta/phi (3D polar)
either: really, i think thats an example, 2 angles and a len or 2 lens and an angle
you can get the user manuals at heidenhain as biggish pdfs
I don't know how that that would be possible, come to think of it
yes, they must agree
well, if you leave one ordinate off, how does the control know which one you meant to have, Z or phi?
normally, unspecified ordinates are left unchanged
btu that's not simple with phi
I don't have time for much discussion, but it sounds interesting for some kind of interpreter
ok, format is LP (line polar) PR (polar radius) PA (polar angle IN PLANE ) book doesnt show a change in Z (or ortho axis )
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-09-13.txt
polar arc is CP (circle polar) PA (degrees of arc ) DR ( direction, actually Drucke )
I have a 3" od roundstock, upright in the mill, need to faceslot at several different degrees, all going back to origin at the center of the round face.
Something circle center would be nice but I guess I'll be triggin it out.
six slots with multiple air ports in the bottoms and alignment dowels
Q1= YurRadPlusAbit; Q2=60; Q3=6; Q4=SlotDepth; Q5=CutFeed; Q6=ThisAng; Q6=Q2;;;LZ3FMAX (clear over part); LX0Y0; CC X0Y0; LZ.05 (close) LBL1 LZ-Q4FQ5 LP PRQ1 PAQ6; LP PR0 PAQ6; Q6=Q6+Q2 (test if done else loop to LBL1);LZ3FMAX(when done)
skinnypuppy: can you grok that?
only one with APTitude could grok that, I think :)
i think faster & picture it faster than i can xl8 into languages.. then i thought, what if he hasnt tried parametric on heid before?
its like O code in emc
do you know if they have any patents/copyrights on that stuff?
no idea, the polar isnt copyrightable, it belongs to mathematics, but the LP CP PA PR might be a 'look and feel'
yeah. I'd love to start thinking about "RS274-NG" (unless that exists), but I definitely don't want to get into any legal battles
so if a language has no words, (eg chinese , no phonetics ) then we could store a symbol ( coded like unicode/ascii/ebdic ) and we'd have less legal battles and more universality ... programming in smilies :)
no, that's APL ;)
symbols and numbers, no words
(had to look it up ) yeah, like that, but i was thinking more universal (commonly accepted) like how everyone understands the tape recorder symbols even for axis and youtube, and the little walking man on cross walks
heh. I think some of those are ISO symbols :()
sorry for rambling... i was just trying to catch up backscrolling thru todays comments... thanks, byebye
Just got back from dinner, grok ???
Robert A. Heinlein, "Stranger in a Strange Land"
it more or less means "to understand the nature of something fully"
* fenn just grokked a banana smoothie
Alright, no that was over my head
the real meaning of grok is 'drink'
not grok over my head, but what tomp had posted above
I think he was suggesting that you use variables and functions to accomplish your task
that should be pretty easy - the EMC interpreter has trig functions
I'm just not that familiar with creating routines and using variables
or at all really
G1X[#1 * [COS [#2]] Y[#1 * [SIN [#2]]
krash... this it what you were looking for: http://images.myonlinesite.com/tobak/
sorry... second day in a row (wrong window)
swp, that makes some sense. I'll play with that
just needed to see some syntax
all you have to know is the formula for where you want it to go, and then muddle through with how to pass parameters and stuff :)
[01:30:09] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Oword
Alright seems easy enough to incremental plunge, path, and repeat like that
and if you need slots at equal angles, you can step the angle in a loop as well
I'll study and play with the examples you sent, thank you. Just trying to be productive until all my hardware arives
oh. that sounds like a good idea
I found a Gcam bug that locks my system ... ctl alt backspace doesn't even work ... hehehe
that's possibly only X being locked up. you may be able to ssh into it and kill X
May be, it's when opening a file, click to expand the folder and then click back on the window behind it and freeze
ctl alt f2 everything locks
ssh that thing dude.
like the man said!
that's why I've been on off on off
I'm running local, is gcam using ssh?
no, you can log in remotely
assuming you have sshd installed
duh sorry wasn't looking at if from that angle my fault
i wish ubuntu came with sshd on by default and just root logins disabled
REQUIEM FOR A DEFAULT
if it only came with sshd installed bt default :/
freakin' pem certificate
I can't get wget/firefox/anything to extract it from a site
robboplus_ is now known as robboplus
which cam/cad program do you preffere to interact with emc ?
kollabierer: there's a list with cad/cam packages on the wiki
I#ve seen the list, that's why I asked which you prefere
depends on the job
for PCB milling, quite a few people use eagle + some ULP to generate g-code
others use synergy for up to 5-axes machining
is there a cam program that generates g-code, EMC understands out of the box ?
usually the CAM programs have so-called post-processors
these are simple programs/scripts which parse the output from the CAM program and convert it to g-code
[11:17:05] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Cam_Post
<- one post-processor specifically for emc2
most of the time you can look in the cam program for fanuc or standard rs274 outputs, it's most likely it will work with minor corrections
please, don't say "standard RS-274" !
because EMC does NOT understand RS-274 !
it just understands a simple dialekt
I had to learn that lesson the hard way :(
actually it does understand the rs274 standard
the trouble is that rs274 standard is from 1974 or so
and everything after that isn't standard any more
most of the manufacturers use their own extensions where the original standard doesn't cover things
a few days ago, I was here and asked about the RS-274
because I have a program, that outputs RS-274
but EMC doesn't understand it !
and then I got told, that EMC doesn't understand RS-274, just RS-274bgc, a self made dialect
is it rs-274? or rs-274d? or rs-274x? or some other version?
did you put it online for someone to look at it?
what is the error that emc gives you?
what is the name of the program?
alex_joni: the rs274 dosent output moves..
anonimasu: what do you mean?
alex_joni: the program he's trying to run is not g-code.. remotely
alex_joni: it's a set of coordinates.. with aperture size
no gxx commands
like RS-274 defines....
nad I tried RS-274 as well as RS-274x
rs-274x is gerber
here's the standard: http://www.artwork.com/gerber/274x/rs274xrevd_e.pdf
(looks quite similar to g-code to me)
except for strange things like poly filling & such
anonimasu: then I guess it's not rs274
alex_joni: it's rs274, but not rs274ngc..
though who's rs274 ;)
hello guys , i just finished my stepper motor driver!! emc i'm coming :-)
[11:41:16] <Guest333> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m9jIlv-vhc
"RS274 is a programming language for numerically controlled (NC) machine tools, which has been used for many years. The most recent standard version of RS274 is RS274-D, which was completed in 1979. It is described in the document "EIA Standard EIA-274-D" by the Electronic Industries Association [EIA]. Most NC machine tools can be run using programs written in RS274. Implementations of the language differ from machine to machine, however, and
Guest333: just be carefull not to start any fires with it :P
because of the transformer?
Guest333: I was joking
lots of fires around athens lately ;)
it's very fused, it has no problem
yes:-( and to many dead people
anybody has any experience, where to find info for a stepper motor encoder? (missed steps)
what kind of info?
what is an encoder, how to build one and stuff like that
bb and thanks
i have a little question about emc
have anyone use emc with TUR 50 DC ?
Guest729 is now known as skunkworks_
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-09-13.txt
Marcin: what is a TUR 50 DC ?
how to say in english
[12:37:38] <alex_joni> http://marketeo.com/pl/offerDetail/149548_Tokarka_TUR-50_SN_DC_x_1000mm_z_falownikiem.html
looks more like a lathe to me
yes sorry i donk know english name :)
this link is correct :)
I would like to control it by ems
emc is good software to use on lathes, but it's always a lot of work to convert any machine to work with emc.
ehe i read doc on the web side and it look dificult
but price is very good :)
it's not as much difficult to make emc run, but changing wires and motors and drives (if needed), and figuring out what is already on the machine, etc
I'd say you'll have just as much trouble with any other control
mhm but where is the beginig of this job where to start ?
getiing a pice of crap ;p
ok but one thing is iteresting for me
taking new toys to bits, see how they work
TUR has stepping motors with stepper driver
do you know if the drives take 'step and direction'?
it really depends on your goal
if you only want to control moving the axes, then it should be a couple days to make it work (including tuning)
if you want toolchangers and limits & all, it might get easily complex
i think only about moving the axes
Tur dosn't support tools container
o i think that it gets step and direction
then it should be fairly simple
download the LiveCD from linuxcnc.org
start it on a computer with parallel port
connect the output from the parport to the drives
and start moving it
hmmm but haw I shoul connect LPT to my driver it doesn't have this port
you need 2 wires for each drive
one for step, one for direction
ok so I should cut of old control from driver plug this two wires and that is all
the problem is usually in the details :D
you men for instane in HAL ?
after this hardware job I gess that I should configure lpt for my machine params
in HAL am I correct ?
you need to adjust steps/mm or steps/inch, velocities, accelerations, etc
ok so now I have a picture how to do this :)
thanks a lot
CU I hope i Will manage :D
if you don't there are always people in here who can help
For those who have worked with multiple kinds of stepper drivers: do you prefer setting motor current with a resistor (like gecko drives) or with a trimmer (like xylotex)?
er trimmer is a resistor
well I know that
perhaps I wasn't sufficiently precise in my language
I used resistor
fixed value resistor
with a gecko you put a resistor in two of the screw terminals
with a xylotex you turn a trimmer resistor on the board until you get the value you want
the 2 main ones I use - dip switches and resister. I think I would prefer a pot..
with a gecko you figure what resistor you need from a formula
with a xylotex you use a meter to check that you got the voltage you want
xylotex sounds a bit nicer
trimmer, allows removal of local tolerance
and you have it handy
jepler: any reason for asking?
since pminmo doesn't give eagle files anymore, I'm working on an l297/8 board -- I think that's one of the best choices for the hobbyist. I have experience with the xylotex and found it a pain to adjust the trimmer -- it's a 1-turn type and so near the test terminal that I had trouble fitting the probe and screwdriver in the space
I wondered if people who had used gecko style liked it or not, because I was leaning towards that in my board design
* skunkworks_ hand jepler some aligator clips..
in this case the test terminal is just an exposed via near the trimmer
I have not had any that riquired a trimmer to adjust.
(I also don't like that the trimmer can be set to "fry driver chip" but that's easily avoidable and I'm not sure why the xylotex guy doesn't fix that)
jepler: why are you creating your own stepper driver?
put a fixed r in seris with the trimmer
archivist: exactly, to set the maximum reference voltage
skunkworks_: I want something available like pminmo's single-sided l297/l298 design, but available without bullshit. not for myself, but for others.
skunkworks_: I think l297/298 is one of the best driver setups for hobbyist (all thru-hole, etc)
"they just work" TM
(pminmo doesn't permit modification, redistribution, and only furnishes .pdf format files now)
anyway .. back to work
thanks for your input guys
basic circuits are in the SGS databooks
ah - I understan. the whole pminos 'I don't give out board layouts anymore'
could be an excuse to fire up PCAD
I think the reference SGS board is single sided
you can use a multiturn trimpot, or two trimpots
I think trimmers have worse temperature coefficients in general
fine and coarse
so as it heats up, the setting will change
SWPadnos: depends on the trimpot
but a crappy single-turn definately is like that
as I said, in general :)
I'd use a multiturn (at least 50 turns or so)
cermet 10 turn
and I don't think a lot of hobbysits are going to spend $30 on a precision Bourns 15-turn pot ;)
50 sounds like a lot
[13:28:34] <alex_joni> http://www.solarbotics.com/products/index.php?scdfa-250100084-viewDetail-productzq3126zq4categoryzq39=true
swp that's why i suggested two
fenn: 20 turns ;)
I have some like these, which I quite like: http://www.smcelectronics.com/PT30.JPG
yep - those are one of the form factors the Bourns ones are
[13:30:29] <alex_joni> http://www.smcelectronics.com/MTPOT01.JPG
10 turns, 7.5$
[13:30:45] <fenn> http://futurlec.com/PotRect.shtml
yep. look at the temp. coefficients ...
data sheet what's that?
yeah - looking for it now
heh - powerrating at 70 C: 0.50W, power rating at 125C: 0W
the temp coefficient is +/- 100 PPM / deg C
that's for the 10% pots, not the 20 or 25% tolerance versions
so I guess that's not too bad. a 30 C temp. change would only be 0.3% max drift
the cheaper ones (+/- 25%) are 250 PPM/C
and only $0.80 instead of $0.83!
* skunkworks_ stole a lot off of junk circuit boards (10 turn pots)
they come in handy :)
I'm sure they do :)
wow - Murata has surface mount pots that are $0.09 in quantity, $0.20 in singles O_O
Whats going on?
Adam__: did you get your scales hooked up to the mesa board?
I am waiting on the breakouts still. I did get my pinouts though for them.
oh man: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=481411&in_page_id=1770
Right now I am looking for a Quill kit for my bridgeport type clone. I want Z axis cnc, currently I just have a scale on it.
Adam__, if you have lots of money and want something that's reputed to be excellent, try these guys: http://www.elrodmachine.com/
air die grinders are rated to fairly high speeds, are suited to lateral pressure, and have bearings and collets, might they be used with a motor ( pulley and belt ) to make a 'hi-speed' spindle? ( oh, and are cheap :)
Etchaskecth link was cool
yeah - wow
and no CNC ;)
Makita Die Grinder — 28,000 RPM, 6.6 Amp, Model# GD0800C or Milwaukee Die Grinder — 14,500 RPM, 11 Amp, Model# 5196 both electric. gotta compare to routers...
Adam__: SWPadnos is correct. I did an Elrod quill conversion and am very happy with it.
they're in the $2k range, right?
I forget what the whole thing cost me. I got their X, Y, and Z kits. Supplied my own servos. Jon's PWM drives and controllers.
yeah I am trying to get a price on the quill
ok. I spoke to Dwayne a couple of years ago, and I think the X+Y set was $1600 and the quill was $1900
or it was the other way around :)
I am thinking a gecko drive and not sure about the servo motor, any suggestions?
SWPadnos: sound about correct.
the ones I have are Baldors, from an Anilam coversion
geckos are a little undersized for them, specifically the 80V limit
these are MTE-4070BLBCE (though you can use others with similar part numbers)
27 in-lb @ 9.7A, 2500RPM@100V
peak of 39A and 150V
(I could be a little off there, going from memory)
I have a 110VDC powersupply in my machine right now I would like to use that.
geckos are rated at 80V
I could get the same drive as my x&y currently and jsut plug it in, but that is 900 alone
Jon Elsons drives look pretty good for BP sized mills. 160V/20A, I think
and I believe they're $125
I'm considering using those instead of the geckos I have
my servos would only spin 840rpm
anybody know how to control a VFD from a Mesa 7i37?
use a 7i33 instead :)
heh thats what i thought
the 7i37 can probably do it using software PWM, but I think the turn-on/turn-off times for the outputs are pretty slow
(so you'd probably get some asymmetry unless you use PDM and a push-pull type of filter)
Also, I need 10vdc 10ma power for the actual vfd can I get that off one of the boards?
the 7i37 just closes an electronic contact, so you'd probably use the reference + terminal on the VFD
one possibility is to use 2 outputs as push/pull - one contacts to +, the other to -, and both connect to the "output"
output goes to a slow filter (like .1 second time constant, maybe longer)
and on to the VFD
the VFD should have 3 terminals for this, like you'd use for a pot (+, wiper, -)
can you adjust the output voltage on the 7i37 (it outputs 48vdc)? I only need 10vdc
sofware wise I mean
it doesn't output anything
it allows you to switch things up to 48V
(this is like a light switch - it's rated for 600V, but it doesn't source anything, it just switches whatever you connect to it)
it being a light switch, not the 7i37, which is rated at 48V :)
so why does it say it has 8 48vdc 1A output drivers
the drivers can be connected to a 48V supply, and can switch 1A loads at that voltage
we arent elec. engs over here
oh, that kind
ok what about the forward reverse and brake for the vfd
those should be able to directly connect to 7i37 outputs
ok thats what i thought
Its complicated the first go around thats forsure
"with great power comes great responsibility" :)
Yeah well once you do it once then its cake after
see you on saturday
have a good trip
03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_read.cc: fix block delete problem reported by stuart s.
[20:15:01] <lerneaen_hydra> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKEuzxC4eGc
[20:24:25] <skinnypuppy1334> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT60SkXN1UY
swpadnos:have you ever installed a 2nd parport before
yes, but not for EMC :)
im trying in widows right now
I have a parport card that I tried out with EMC for a few minutes a couple of years ago, but I don't remember at all what I did
are you supposed to be able to see the new port in bios when its installed correctly?
thats a load off my mind
if you're in Windows, then you can "look for new hardware" if it doesn't already show up in the device manager
windows sees it,loaded dos drivers also
followed web instructions,still no luck
if you plan on using it with EMC, then you need to use "lspci" to see what address it was assigned in Linux
web instructions on the EMC2 wiki?
was trying windows before i got that far
no point to that, for the most part
figured it would be plug n play,wrong
if it's detected automatically, then that tells you it's working as far as the BIOS is concerned. if it doesn't work in Windows, then troubleshooting that is of no help in Linux
one thing - it usually helps to insure that the BIOS is set to "non-plug-n-play OS" (or similar)
gonna try a linux install,may get lucky
the main question i had was could it be seen in the bios,thanks
btw,im gonna have something for the wiki in a few days,my nasa buddie is gonna look it over when im done
come on, this isn't rocket science :)
he wants it to be a good post
he is becoming interested in the project
its a start :)
mach3 cant do it
with a 150 board you get read 40 times a sec
but if you dont buy an encoder board you dont get the plugin for the software to work,should have that capability from a safety standpoint
what suprised me is the encoder numbers dominate the emc numbers
what do you mean?
instead of home at z0. everytime,now it shows -.0001,or .0002
swows actual position
know where your at for real at a glance
you can switch the display between commanded and actual position
you can probably twist the shaft while the steppers are on and see the numbers move
a little bit
(without making it skip)
make it read .0001 either way with a little pressure
once you get the machine making parts, it would be interesting to use halscope or halstreamer to plot the following error
i dont see why this wont work with glass scales also,or anything really
err - halsampler maybe
you can take the position output of the stepgen, subtract it from the encoder output, and see how they differ
we can do that,would like to see
I'd be interested in seeing that data
both unloaded and under load
(ie, cutting steel :) )
we can cut it
I'll bet there's some oscillation - you can probably see whether you're climb or conventional milling, and the number of flutes on the endmill
that would be interesting
well, if it's X or Y. if this is Z, then it would show something else
(not exactly sure what at the moment)
well, time for dinner. bbl
jmkasunich_ is now known as jmkasunich
jepler: fwiw, I much prefer the gecko approach to setting current
no meter needed
no chance of it changing by accident
and if its a build-your-own board, you don't even need terminals for the resistor - just provide pads, and choose the resistor value at build time
trench filled in?
shockingly larger than expected bill presented monday
my 2 piles of sand are flat as of today
somewhat smaller bill paid wednesday
still lots more than the original quote
they charged you for the 3 man days that you didn't get?
but I do have a new copper water line and new storm sewer that weren't originally planned
oh - forgot about that.
original quote $6800, bill $13300, final amount $11700
but - something you won't have to worry about probably in your life time
any plugs will be easily cleaned :)
yep, and should be very unlikely in the first place
did you see jlmjvm setup steppers with encoders - and is seems to work. That is pretty neat.
jmkasunich: I have a feeling lots of hobbyists love to do things like turn the trimpot a bit this way or that to see if they get 1ipm better performance before their stepper motors burn up </1/2 wink>
how about putting a hole pattern on the board that allows either a trim pot or a 1/4 watt resistor
holes are cheap
people like you will put in the resistor, people like me will endlessly fiddle the pot
* jepler tries to remember if he last set his xylotex to 100% current or 75% current
time for dinner, bbl
woo whoo http://www.electronicsam.com/images/house/garagesand.JPG
the back yard and house is in the background.. (cedar shake siding)
[22:57:33] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/house/newhehhouse.JPG
finally a front view
needs a little tlc
for some reason the train was parked when I walked to get the mail http://www.electronicsam.com/images/house/trane.JPG
JymmmEMC: any chance you can open up your oem750 so we can compare with oem750x?
LawrenceG: this is my oem650x-> oem650 :)
[23:43:46] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/OEM650.JPG
the official oem650's have a jumper 'block' that shorts out the first 5 teminals.
I used seagate scsi drive jumpers
hmmm.... wonder if the 750s are the same... they look very similar although mine has 2 dip switches instead of your red jumpers
I would 'think' that they would use the same indexer :)
was wondering if sw1 in http://imagebin.org/10418
is used in oem750
good thought on the indexer card.... on mine it looks like the first 5 pins are special
I don't have a 650 here.
I mean the x card
I was surprised to see how nice and compact the drive is
small huh - not as small as the gecko's - everytime I see one I still am supprised as how small it is
yea... it has an 80c52 processor and descrete fet ouput stage t0220.... nice, but hard to clone for ~$50usd ebya prices
you can follow back the step and direction pins from the 25 pin connector. those 4 should be hooked strait thru I would think.
I may be talking out of my ass - I bet the plug is after the optos.