maybe that's a good thing, but I the administrator of the router should be able to tell what IP addresses it has assigned without going through page after page of logs
doesn't it have a status page with "connected devices" or similar?
can't find it
my netgear has 'attached devices'
same with my netgear
mine has wireless only
remind me not to get a dlink next time
my mill is wired and doesn't show up
is it a wireless bridge, ora wireless router?
has a switch built in
then why do you say it's wireless only?
the only devices that it shows connected are wireless
there are at least 2 wired computers that don't show on the list of connected devices
it will probably not show device it didn't give ip thru dhcp
are all the computers connected directly to this router, or is there another switch/rouhter in there as well
another switch for one, the other is direct
true. it should only show IPs for devices that it needs to route packets for
I usually use DHCP, but I probably should change it for the mill, that could be a pain
what's that? CNC over TCP/IP?
it's the new thing, haven't you heard?
what's your setup?
I have a linux computer on the second floor, and a mill with a linux computer attached in the basement
emc in the basement, right?
not that I would actually run the mill from the second floor, but I was thinking about it
yes, emc in the basement
yep - my router will not show attached devices unless it gave the ip address. (just set my ubuntu box from static to dhcp and it showed up)
eric_u: how do you tell emc what to do? ssh tunneling (boring)? or teleop?
just enable sshd and ssh into the mill with the command ssh -X email@example.com and emc displays
teleop means coordinated jogging motion, not remote gui
fenn: so what means remote gui?
I have thought of having a second computer running the gui
don't see anything wrong with it
it would be so much more efficient
emc sends "NML commands" over a tcp socket i think
you can do a better connection, I don't remember the details
fenn, that sounds right
Yeah, I just ssh -X into my emc machine in the garrage room from the living room
on a different note, has anyone made use of my 3-point circle routine, or have I written it for nought?
then run emc at the command prompt
there's example .nml config files for a remote gui
skinnypuppy1334: ssh -CX is more efficient
what's the c mean?
maddash that is interesting I was going to ask the same
maddash: i think its wrong, i did some test cases and got good results from half of them
fenn: example .nml, I mean
I don't think I would really run the mill from the upstairs computer
If I was within earshot, maybe
I'm only using it sim, I wouldn't run it from remote
SWPadnos: Thanks. Interesting, I'd like to see what the peer reviews have to say about it.
jmkasunich: HEY! how did you get a pic of my pc???
I've seen some that weren't quite that bad
I've had a few I had to take out on the deck and use about half a can of compressed air to clean out.
me, a case and a half of air =)
be carefull with static electricity and vacumms
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: use SCALE in preference to INPUT_SCALE for fiding smallest step size for min jog speed calculation
toast is now known as toastydeath
who all feels like answering pluto_servo/emc2 questions?
ok, who doesn't?
what's your question?
skyfox00, you missed jepler by about 45 minutes. he's the most qualified to answer pluto questions
always just ask and then hang around - sometimes it's even the next day when you get an answer
right, I was hopeing to catch him...
or try the mailing list
also, what kernel version, realtime version/flavor, etc does every one use?
as cradek said, aks the question, and it's likely it'll get answered. you can search the logs for the answer if you don't want to leave an IRC client connected
ask, that is
what's wrong with leaving an IRC client connected?
well, for one thing it requires you to leave a computer on, and an internet connection established
I am going to try to set up a dedicated emc computer and I need to know what the best linux kernel(most stable) is, etc
which isn't a big deal for most of us, but could be for some
that's not a pluto question
you mean people like me who put there portables to sleep when not in use?
skyfox00, the best supported platform right now is Ubuntu, which you can install from a LiveCD
the pluto question was weather or not to buffer all inputs or just the QZx pins...
you can get the liveCD from linuxcnc.org, it's already got an RT kernel
if you want to be careful (read: paranoid), you should buffer everything
it can't hurt to buffer everything
the pluto wasn't designed for industrial uses, it's a hobby / experimenter board
and you really want to use differential receivers in front of pluto
how much does a pluto cost?
I have the ubuntu disk and when I start emc2, it runs fine for about 30-60 seconds then gives an error saying unexpected realtime delay...
$60 or so
or maybe $70
it cost me a total of $70 shipped...
might be worth a few buffers
realtime delay is either your mobo is funky or video drivers
personally, I'm waiting for the mesa 7i43, which will connect via parallel port and/or USB, and has a much larger FPGA on it
ooo that sounds neat
expensive though, right?
and should be ~$79 or $89
I think it's supposed to be a 400k FPGA, instead of the 50k (?) on the pluto
are you going to have to spend $70 each for the breakout boards?
yep - 200k or 400k
pluto has 100K iirc
skyfox, what video does your computer have?
the 7i43 has some protection (like overvotage cutouts)
what kind of mobo?
it's SMI, most likely
my main beef with pluto is the altera software
if it's a low power portable, it's almost sure to have power saving options turned on in the BIOS
fenn, yes, that's another advantage to the 7i43
there's a fix for that, correct?
one computer was an ibm thinkpad laptop and the other was a gateway m275 swivle screen laptop...
don't use laptops, they suck
not going to work, most likely
laptops suck for realtime, unless you're very lucky
did we say they suck? they suck.
and they probably don't work either
right, most likely not
well, my only other option is an old pentium-2 350Mhz
that will work great
I ran my lathe on one for some time
with the axis interface?
you should expect unexpected realtime delays
get 384 or 512MB in it and it'll be fine
yes with AXIS
with hardware GL?
old-ish Matrox cards work great
if you're expecting them, then they arent unexpected anymore
I ran realtime linux just fine on a 66 MHz Pentium
G200 and up if you want some performance, Millennium if you don't :)
that's what they are called though
not hardware GL. I had a PCI matrox millenium II
I recommend the mil II if you have them - jmk and I both have used them in a lot of machines
so then you were useing some sort of software openGL implimentation?
that comes already working in ubuntu
skyfox00, the pluto has 56000 gates max (that's the most any chip in that series has)
AXIS draws some lines and a tool, it works great with software GL
I have bad pluto documentation ;)
I have a matrox G450 in another emc machine and it works great too (like SWP says)
10000 gates, 56000 "system gates", 576 logic elements ... - who knows what it really has?
I have a G400/G450 or two around too
and an M3d if anyone wants a PCI 3D acceleration coprocessor
the version of emc that is on the ubuntu live cd can not recover from an epp communication error with the pluto without a reboot...
so I was going to try to put together a kernel/realtime/cvs-emc hack...
what ships with ubuntu, rtai or rtlinux?
you can update emc and the RT kernel - they're just debian packages
that same ubuntu is a very good devel platform
so even if the CD is outdated, you can get an update the next time packages are released, or you can use it as a platform to compile your own EMC2
if you update EMC, does it give you a new rt kernel?
or is there a kernel package?
ubuntu is to user friendly for me, I have a hard time if I can't get under the hood and get my hands greasy...
you don't have to use it that wa
I'm not sure what you mean by update, I tried to update somthing once and blew up the distro...(no longer suported or somthing)
did you install from the emc live cd?
the emc cd is just ubuntu LTS with a few packages added
the realtime kernel is a package, emc is a package
there's nothing magic about it
running a desktop computer on its side wont hurt it will it?
but telling the package installer where to get packages from can be tricky...
it's all set on the liveCD
and there's a script on the wiki to do it for you
so there is a package that is the same as the cvs version?
there are also some instructions on compiling a realtime kernel and EMC on other systems, but as I said, the best supported option will be Ubuntu
I was looking for the update information on the wiki the other day
so to compile the cvs-emc2 I will need both the kernel source as well as the realtime source, right?
my searching part of my brain is broken
(patched kernel source)
skyfox00: please read the docs on the wiki
there is a kernel source package somewhere
this is all spelled out VERY well
line for line
eric_u, search the wiki for installing, or click on the installing link on the main page
the page name is something like "InstallingEMC2"
so nobody know of the top of there head the versions for a kernel/realtime pair?
what you mean by that?
like: kernel 220.127.116.11, rtai 3.5, etc...
you mean download a kernel from kernel.org and then rtai from rtai.org and then do a patch yourself?
magma of some version ot other
is magma a rtai version?
cradek, I got a chance to mount the r-8 er40 and it had .001 tir on the collet seat. .002 at the tool. Not too bad but I'll probably grind that seat one day on the lathe, I had made a mt5 to r-8 holder with a threaded drawbar for my 13" lathe.
I used to be able to do the rtai patches, now it can't be done by anyone
it's a series - I'm not sure which version or date it's from
but there is a directory with the patch files in it
yes there is
ok, I never made that conections before...
and there are incredibly convoluted instructions included with rtai
you can get magma CVS, then look at the patch files, get a vanilla kernel from kernel.org that matches one of the available patches, and try your luck
the build process is even more convoluted
skyfox00: hmm that doesn't seem too great does it
what size tool did you test?
does rtai releas pre-patched kernel sources?
it's pretty easy to do, it's getting a working config that may not be easy - the kernel options you choose affect things a great deal
3/8 and 1/2 with similar results, I'm waiting on some cosmoline to dissolve off. They are decent, not really nice
err that was for skinnypuppy1334:
and there isn't a lot of (good) documentation telling you which ones you must have, which ones you must not have, and which are actually optional
ok, I think I am going to pull those pittmans off and install hand wheels; I have hacked kernels for several years for strange hardware, but this takes the cake.
skinnypuppy1334: it's strange that the holder seat isn't even concentric
cradek: I guessed as much...
so 2.6.15 is the most recent EMC approved kernel for single processors?
I thought so too I figured they could hit .0005 prob china or india doesn't say
somebody here told me they didn't have /etc/issue on their ubuntu system
there's /etc/issue.net, but no /etc/issue
oh wait, there it is
I'm very proud of the fact that I can remember that file :)
never heard of it, but I see what it is :)
maybe I'll remember it for a few days
very useful if you are maintaining 10 linux equipped robots
but you only need it exactly 3 times a year, so it's nearly impossible to remember
can said robots go down chimneys in the middle of the night and install linux on winbloze computers?
that would be cool, but wrong:)
I'm sure your right, but I dont know why...
I can't even force myself to install linux on my wife and kid's computers
my wife has Ubuntu now. she complains every once in a while, but for the most part it's just fine
my wife probably wouldn't have minded if it started out that way
she's been burning CDs, messing with photos, etc.
I guess it would be like kicking a man when he's down, poor billy would never stand a chance...
the only thing missing is Corel Draw
and some flash stuff
and some other codecs
I'm too stupid to get wmv's to play on linux
I have vlc, doesn't work
eric you need the codec
thats when being able to get 'under the hood' and getting your hands greasy is usefull...
have you tried mplayer?
I need the codec
I've had some trouble with video as well - mplayer, totem, gxine, xine ...
the non free codecs, just ask in #ubuntu I use mplayer and vmplayer as well as gxine .wmv mpeg flv
mplayer can use windows binary codecs...
I have some video editing program that plays them
there are just some types that don't play
but I haven't bothered to try figuring out the problem
conelerra or Lives
ffmpeg can also play most *.flv
I've heard there are some wmv that just don;t work though
cinelarra sounds right
if they have drm, they don't work
I've played with kino splicing flv's
I guess cinelarra installs it's own codecs
my brother uses kino a lot for making video's/dvd's etc.
Anyone have any experience with Pacific Scientific steppers? 3-stack motor with Neodymium sounds decent
well, its been fun hanging out with yall, but I'm off to think about handwheels... cya!
PacSci is good stuff
I'm eyeballing some for my BP clone
on fleebay scratchin round
they usually go for big $
don't see any big enough usually
that's why I went brushless
eric , I'm thinking of these http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130151880631&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=003
sorry, forgot it was a clone
enco clone, that's ok
they aren't big enough for me, but they have about 20 times the torque that the motors Jon Elson has on his bp
what's jon running?
he has it on his web page, they are surplus from tape drives or something like that
he doesn't use those tiny servos on BPs
I'd also considered some on kelling but they are obvious stamped models. Figured real neo mag's would probably perform better than something "rated" higher
they're for minimills and tabletop stuff
magnet "performance" basically means that smaller magnets give you the same magnetic field. an 800 oz-in stepper is an 800 oz-in stepper, regardless of the magnets used
(there are probably shaft size / inertia differences though)
you're going to make me look it up, aren't you?
[04:26:14] <SWPadnos> http://pico-systems.com/japservo.html
note that he talks about Taig and Sherline mills there, not Brodgeports
I could see that on a table machine
I have 15 or so motors that are similar to those
swp where from?
a little higher power maybe - these are 120 W or thereabouts (still with 500-cycle encoders)
[04:28:01] <eric_u> http://pico-systems.com/CNCconv.html
here is more info on the little motors if anyone wanted it http://fenn.dyndns.org/gingery_machines/index.php?127K9720
"The large object in back is the DC servo motor, 1/8 Hp."
I'm not being critical, his works, mine doesn't
I shouldn't talk at all then - I only have one motor somewhat mounted on the machine ;)
that's a hefty bracket
ooh, I'm winning, I have 2 motors mounted and one halfway mounted :)
'first we started with a section of the titanic hull...'
it was only 111 pounds
it's so powerful that I don't think it would notice that the shaft is scraping on the head
and now it's 48 - that must have taken a while to cut
pounds of aluminum
on Jon Elson's mill
that might give me nightmares
right - he milled/sliced away 63 pounds of metal
I hope he used a roughing mill for most of that
which is only ~200 cubic inches, but that's still a lot
it's a '41 bp, how much horsepower can it have?
dunno - this was for the X bracket, so it was presumably before that mill was operable as a CNC
the amazing thing is that he got that AB control to work
why is it amazing he got the AB control to work?
it was surplu
SWPadnos: thanks for the link
sure - saw it on slashdot, thought you'd be interested
"The motor is from a Hitachi mainframe-class tape drive" -- I win
ok - that's a different motor than the ones I was thinking of (and linked to)
1/8 HP does seem small for a BP though
that's the x axis, biggest on the mill
Seems small for an electric toothbrush
then again, it's an older one, and you seem to think it's got a small spindle motor
those machines seem tiny to me
hm yaskawa minertia motor - they were just talking about those
I've got a 1970's series 1 - it seems about the right size for my garage
I've got an unknown vintage series II
I like the travel, mill is too big
there was some page that had year of manufacture for all the serial number ranges
it says cncxxx on the knee
or something like that
that's what you need if you try to keep the original control running xxx
make it a double and keep 'em coming barkeep
mine was stripped, the only thing I miss is the 13 tooth geared pulley from the z axis
postscript interpreter for emc...
* fenn giggles to himself
I need a 30" monitor
22" not big enough
depends on the 22" monitor, I think
I thought they all use the same lcd
most are 1680x1050 or if you're lucky 1920x1200
I have one that's 3840x2400 resolution
it's got lots of real estate, but you need very good vision to use it (4-point type is readable)
i still use 1024x768 even though the monitor can do better
I have the 16xx version
about right for my vision
I found it on ebay for $1300 - they were $8000 when they came out ($17000 for the original IBM version)
I still have to make most web page fonts bigger
that's what I got for my wife - 22: 1680x1050
I should have bought a second when bestbuy had them for 190
they're not much more than that anyway
[05:12:31] <SWPadnos> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009094
yeah, looking at that one
I guess some of the sales are coming because there are monitors that aren't vista certified
oh no - a non-vista certified monitor. the horror!
god forbid you should have a monitor that will display something it shouldn't
that one is vista certified, so maybe you don't wnat it
newegg has touchscreens
haven't seen one of those in a while
I don't know if I am ready to spring for ballscrews, any of you using the regular lead screws on your mill? I'd figured on atleast antibacklashing the nuts.
nope - ballscrews here
I got ballscrews
I think my screws are better than .002 per foot rolled screws. Atleast my .0005 dro thinks so
ground screws look to cost half what i could buy an older cnc bp for
ballscrews or leadscrews
did those $99 bp series I cnc that roland sold have the ballscrews?
rolled hiwin look to be alittle more than a grand for XY rolled kit
check out ebay seller Machine Tools Direct
they have (had) BP screw sets (for manual retrofits) for ~$600
and it looks like .002 per foot rating would be a step down from where I am with reg screws
and they're nice screws
I'll look on fleebay for him that is reasonable if the screws are good
that's what I have
do you have a dro to map em to ?
hmmm. it looks like the new guy doesn't know much about eBay - they've only got 2 items listed
there's manufacturing test report with them though
they're quite good - something like 0.039 mm over the full length
I figure a 19" monitor would work great on my mill, but they still cost $180 at newegg
(I'd have to look at the report again to get the correct decimal place :) )
might as well get a 20"
or a 17" touchscreen
too much money
I have a 10" touchscreen 800x600
yeah - I find 800x600 a bit too small
AXIS just barely fits
there is a rolled hiwin set on ebay that had my attention until seeing their .002 spec
I added ebay MTD to my fav list, I'll keep an eye out
you can map it.. but i think its the noise that turns people off
[05:25:05] <eric_u> http://cgi.ebay.com/Elo-18-LCD-Flat-Panel-Touchscreen-Monitor-ET1825L-POS_W0QQitemZ170146224774QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item170146224774&_trksid=p3913.c18.m22.l1101
"working condition unknown" == doesn't work
toast is now known as toastydeath
are the lcd's sized diagonally like crt stuff?
yes, but it's true viewing size
so 20" ~= 21" crt
Been wanting to get a 22" since you all were mentioning it, I bet my 19" crt takes up $250 of deskspace
yes, I now have my cpu behind my monitor, and have extra space in front
before that was all taken up by monitor
Has anyone seen anti bl nuts that are a second nut dowell aligned to the original nut and bolted with a spring or stiff bushing so as to be tight still in the worn center?
thought I'd ask, I'd seen some that were threaded inside one another
there is some guy on cnczone that uses the sprung version
sells them that is
I'll poke around over there later thanks for the 411
don't think its for bp though
Just don't want to reinvent a wheel that didn't work for someone already if that had been the case
in fact, stock bp nuts are split iirc
hmmm mine has a tightening screw that runs radial to the motion screw
isn't there a realtime directory somewhere on a emc ubuntu install?
I've got b't .008 and .010 on xy any tighter on the adjuster just made more drag and not much less bl
sure. good night :)
anyone here know any hal-speak?
yes, but I'm asleep
in anders wallin's script, there is a line that says:
linkpp iotest.in00 m5i20.0.in-00
halcmd says it's never heard of iotest.in00
where is that page?
[06:08:16] <eric_u> http://www.anderswallin.net/2007/09/pyvcp-m5i20-hostmot-4-test-panel/#comments
also, are you saying that halcmd gives you an error using his pyvcp panel, or at soem other time?
yes trying to run his panel
are you using his iotest.sh script?
no, I had to do it all manually
his script doesn't run on my computer
ok, you need to load the pyvcp panel with this line from his script: `pyvcp -c iotest iotest.xml &`
I did that
what does it d?
opens up a very little window :)
and you can't resize it?
what version of emc do you have?
(or are you using with hist stuff)
I just updated
and you've sourced the correct emc-environment script?
wait - updated the packages?
I'm done with building from cvs until I get the mill running
and what error(s) do you get trying to run his script (assuming you've changed the paths that point to ~/emc2.dev/...)
ERROR: pin 'iotest.i n00' not found
halcmd: HAL:24: ERROR: pin 'iotest.i n00' not found
is that what you get when running his script?
(other than the small window)
I was too lazy to edit his script, the commands run without paths
so what I'm taking is that pyVCP isn't creating something?
it seems that way
I'm not sure that pyvcp as it exists in the packages has all the features needed by his script
so I may have to update pyvcp?
it should be there, but I don't know
you may have to use CVS to get those features
but I'm not sure
I better go to sleep myself
one more question
when you loaded the pyvcp panel manually (not with his script), did it appear as you expected?
but I just copied the line from the script
nobody there ?!
did you have a question?
I need to open gerber files (RS-274) with emc
to control a photo-plotter?
no, a 3-axis milling machien
you cant just open a gerber file and cut around the traces
usually people use a cam output processor in eagle
i dont know of anything that reads gerber directly and produces g-code for isolating traces
actually.. gcam might do it: http://gcam.js.cx/
i use altium designer and it's camtastic modul. It exports rs-274, RS-274x or Fire9000
kollabierer: and the problem is what again?
just export to rs274 and run it :)
and as far as I know, the basis of emcs g-code interpreter is rs-274
i get a lot of error messages when i try to open the rs274 file
rs274 can mean a lot of different things
aehem, it's a standard, isn't it ?
[11:53:53] <kollabierer> http://nopaste.php-quake.net/4387
that's what the file looks like
well, we all speak english but it doesnt mean we can understand each other :)
G54D9500 <- i think D9500 means diameter of the photoplotter aperture
the great thing about standards is that there are so many versions of them
kollabierer: the problem is that milling machines can't put the copper back on
if an electronics cad progam outputs rs274 it's probably referring to the kind of code to run a photoplotter
i just want to cut the chips out
kollabierer: remove all the D words from that code and emc should run it fine
it just wont end up as a viable circuit board
what's the d mean?
ok, I give it a try
will eagle do a conversion between someone else's gerber and gcode?
kollabierer: seriously, look at gcam
gcam does though?
ok, I removed the Dwords, but the there are no positioning words, so of course, emc says that they are missing
eric_u: i think so. i havent used it yet
there is no g01 or g00
kollabierer: type g1 at the top to see it draw something
of course, emc don't know what to do with just X or Y coordinates
heh. my g-code is a bit rusty
g1 z0 f100
now he says "using a D-word without using g42..."
and all the "playing around" doesn't make really sense
well, maybe you need to open the rs274-ngc spec used by emc
that's no real solution
oh, emc needs decimal points too
the aoutput is standard rs274
it doesn't work as currently implemented
and emc says, it could read rs274
but it doesn't
rs274 is not rs274ngc
and "standard rs274" is probably not actually rs274
and rs274 for a photoplotter only makes sense for photoplotter controls, not machine controls
kollabierer: you need to have a look at the spec yourself..
* skunkworks wonders whats going on
i read a lot of emc specs, and all i found is, that emx understands rs274...
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-09-11.txt
kollabierer: here's the thing, that thing outputs X and Y coordinates but no command to move there
he's trying to import a gerber file and have emc cut the traces
there is a post on the gcam forum from the developer that says he's working on milled circuit boards
and it outputs * after each line..
which is wrong
emc dosetn know about what thoose lines do because they are only coordinates
yes, i know that
but as it is gerber standard, other programs like GC-Prevue can open them without problems
emc supports rs274-ngc
and it looks like this for a linear move g1x0y1
do you have an spec for rs-274NGC ?
and that's what emc expects.
[12:13:51] <cradek> http://www.google.com/search?q=rs274ngc+spec
I see the problem Gerber called their language rs274X even though they changed it considerably
it doesnt matter if it's the right language or not, the paths are all wrong
and it flashes rather than draw lines for shapes
we all knew he needed a Gerber to gcode converter from the beginning.
a gerber file is a positive, a milled pcb g-code is a negative
there has to be a conversion
[12:20:33] <eric_u> http://gcam.js.cx/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=57
gcam apparently will do it now
but I don't want to mill the tracks
so i have a "negative"
you want to mill the board, correct?
all I wan't to mill is the board shape
you still need a conversion
how are you going to get traces?
but if I export my board shape in the rs274 format, and open the file for example with GC-Prevue, it draws the lines, even the toolpaths, correctly
because it knows gerber
it knows rs274
no, it knows rs274X
and alls I found is that emc also knows rs274
it exports rs274 as well as 274x
the file i postet on nopaste is in RS274
kollabierer: i suggest you read what we are saying rather than repeating the same thing over and over
I just repeat my statements because it seems that some don't understand what I mean
make a long story short:
understands EMC RS-274 ?
if you look into g-code (rs274ngc) a little more, you will see that there are many incompatible versions that are infuriatingly similar, but not enough to actually work
so al lot of emc specs flying around are wrong
that's just silly
that's bad as hell
eric_u: rs274ngc is only one dialect of g-code
it was invented for emc to try to resolve this problem
but nobody cared
dont miss three characters off a standard name (ngc) and assume its equivalent
kollabierer: Look, you are trying to use something made to drive a photoplotter to machine boards that's like sticking something going into the freezer into the oven instead.
a lot of papers I found don't tell anything about the "ngc" dialect of emc
kollabierer: emc2 is open source - you could write an interpriter to do what you want..
the problem is that the rsxxx standards are rarely standards
kollabierer: the papers are the spec of rs274-ngc
kollabierer: best thing is to use gcam and make a toolpath with it
kollabierer: the "rs274" your cad program exports is actually "EIA RS274-D" or -X
there's a DIN number too but i forget
i can choose between RS-274 and RS-274X
at this point, all I can say is read the source
and because I found a lot of papers telling me, emc understands RS-274, I thought it's a pretty shortt step
got a link?
moving my code to emc and cut the boards out
eric_u: unfortunately i can see how he got that impression from a quick google search
so the "problem" is, that the RS-274 dialect emc understands is that different from RS-274 that ist doesn't work
Altium and other PCB programs output RS-274D, not RS-274NGC
but in addition to that, your file draws the traces, not the outline of the traces
oh - fenn noticed that already :)
so I guess I#M writing an postprocessor by myself that converts the RS-274 files to RS-274NGC
did you try gcam yet?
fenn he wants to cut the outline so thats ok
it shouldnt be too hard to do
archivist: how is that ok? 1 != =
a line is not a box
normally drawn outside plus line size
kollabierer, you might try starting with negative output, and tell Altium the machine is vector (I don't know if you've tried raster and vector output)
but it'll still need some help - theRS274D uses D codes to "flash" pads, and that needs special treatment when converting to RS274NGC
Of course, It doesn't really matter, what I#M trying to mill. My Altium designer outputs waypoints. So he writes "go to X0 Y0"
It doesn't matter if the subscribes traces, boarders, lines or whatever
i made him output the shape of my boards
and he does it good
if you use Altium to draw outlines (like milling the perimeter of a board), then it would be easier to convert to "milling G-code"
the problem is just the format
That's what I do SWPadnos
I jst thought, EMC would understand the fileformat, Altium exports.
I think Jon Elson recently said that he has some utilities to convert 274D to 274NGC
i thought this sounded familiar...
also, I have Altium, and I'll have a milling machine working some day, so check back - I may end up in the same situation as you and just write the interpreter myself :)
I'm sure, that that kind of postprocessor is really easy to write
in fact, I 've already written a quick and dirty version in php, just fpr testing purpose
it should be, it was designed for 1970's computers
maybe I can use yours ;)
should be, even an awk script
Of course, If i make one, I'll put it public
a filter, so axis can load it directly ...
add php to the emc requirements
once you get over the onerousness of needing X for a machine controller that is
don't forget Gnome! ;)
i didnt say it :P
*and* KDE - I'll make some QT thing just to be sure
qt is even piggier than gnome
but at least they dont make 500 different packages
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/stepgen.9: there is no need for the 'doublestep' parameter; stepspace=0 on its own is enough. The default remains stepspace=1 (smallest nonzero step space possible)
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/components/stepgen.c: there is no need for the 'doublestep' parameter; stepspace=0 on its own is enough. The default remains stepspace=1 (smallest nonzero step space possible)
recently someone added another fpga to emc - I thought but I can't find the link
ARCNC100 or so
[13:02:46] <fenn> http://atelierrobin.net/p41.htm
i guess this is windows - the fonts look ugly :) http://atelierrobin.net/arcncsw2.jpg
it must be windows those are backslashes ;)
gcam crashes pretty easily for a released project
yeah its all the C
that's not it :)
its fairly new
I tried to import kollabrier's code, and poof! down it goes
easiest way to exit the program
is it a binary you downloaded?
built from source
hm. buggy software then :)
there were some warnings
about bad enumerated variable initializers
warning: ISO C restricts enumer ator values to range of ‘int’
there are unidentified apertures in that photoplot
Altium wouldn't load it ;)
(I had to define one aperture to get it to load)
err - one missing aperture
now i'm thinking about how to write a gerber import filter
seems the "brute force" approach of making a bitmap would be lots easier
I wouldn't think so, but maybe
the hard part is the apertures
just lines to start off with
there are two kinds of aperture, draw and flash. draw is easy - that's more or less like milling (the width is all that matters)
so - it say - go here at this diameter - then go here at this diameter?
it gives an XY position and a D code on every line (for the most part)
I think if the D code represents a draw aperture, a line is drawn to the XY target
I think if the D code represents a flash, it means move there and put the shape down
like a rubber stamp
* skunkworks is glad eagle does what he needs.
hmmm. ok, there isn't a D code on every line. it's like RS274NGC in that it uses the last D-code specified
I wonder if that file is complete
it starts with a G54, but it should start with something like "%FSLAX24Y24%"
are you still talking about my file?
GC-Prevue shows it
I had an undefined aperture problem loading it into Altium
it is strange that it starts with G54 instead of the "normal" FSLAX... line
i just imported it to altium camtastic. it worked
try downloading it from quakenet and loading that in, rather than your local file
I've insert the lines from nopaste in an empty text file, importet it with Altium and it works fine
strange. what version of Altium?
what license are these files provided under? http://unpy.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/~checkout~/eagle/ulp/
but should make no difference
ok. I have 6.7, but I agree it shuold make no difference
6.7 ? Uuuh, youre a rich man ;)
not any more
oh, I see
swpadnos and his money are soon parted
actually, updates have been free for the last 1.5 years or so
yeah, money and I don't have a very good relationship. every time it comes over to visit, I kick it out :)
fenn: // THIS PROGRAM IS PROVIDED AS IS AND WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED isn't enough ;)
updates are not really a problem, but I share this PC with other peoples who work with Altium as well
so we don't really change something here
yeah -best to leave things alone if they work
I've had the program for a while, but just did my first real project with it (in the past 2 weeks), so I was able to keep up with updates without affecting anything
which reminds me. I need to remember to report all the "issues" I found ;)
skunkworks: i'm not sure what that says i'm allowed to do with it
fenn: we'll fix the missing license statement
btw cradek it's kinda hard to find, even if you know what you're looking for
that cuts down on silly support questions
fenn: yeah I agree, but I agree with SWP too
Yo! Happy day.
oh, now I get it. thanks
it's patriot day - yay!
SWPadnos: are you familiar with eagle ?
and on that note, i think i should go to bed
maybe I can use it as an postpro
I don't use it, but others here do
kollabierer: this was make in eagle http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/top.JPG
don't ask me what it will import/export though
looks a little too "spacy" for my SMD components
heh - I have to be able to solder it with my shakey hands.
I use an SMD oven
fenn: gcode.ulp fixed
im going to be using a frying pan
once my solder paste arrives
hmmm. a frying pan may not be the best tool for soldering
since the components (and solder paste) will be on top, and the heat will come directly from the bottom
SWPadnos: it seems to work well for the people that I've seen use it
supposedly it works better that way if you have plastic connectors or shiny things
I'd think that the direct contact would tend to cause problems on the underside of the board, but then again, I've never tried it ;)
do you recommend teflon or cast iron?
I have baked antennas in the oven before (both to solder the copper springs to the mounting studs and to heat-shrink shrouds onto them)
that sure stinks if you get the oven too hot
jepler, cast iron, and peanut oil
I have no idea
and plenty of garlic
too bad those easy bake ovens have been recalled.
yes, garlic is essential
and a touch of Mongolian Fire Oil puts the heat in just the right places
nah, I swear by the homemade dried hot pepper flakes I got as a birthday present
mmm soo good
jepler: they suggest an electric hot plate, not an actual frying pan
yummy yummy yummy: http://www.farawayfoods.com/fireoil.html
though making a hot oil is something I should try one of these days
I thought people like to use toaster ovens.
JonE has a temperature-controlled toaster oven for that
skunkworks: plastic connectors like to melt, and metal connectors reflect the IR and the solder under them doesnt melt
so a pan is better?
someone recently mentioned that PC boards are IR-transparent ;)
so you can heat from the underside for troublesome components
ok, thanks folks, I have to go
skunkworks: read this http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/present.php?p=Reflow%20Skillet
SWPadnos: that is interesting indeed
unfortunately it was me who said that, so i have nowhere to go for further explanation :)
so I recall :)
I'd say their crappy oven experience shouldn't be taken as a definitive work on IR reflow
well no, but the hot plate idea appeals to me
thomas pfeifer has used a clothes iron successfully
[14:12:06] <fenn> http://thomaspfeifer.net/
[14:12:22] <fenn> http://thomaspfeifer.net/smd_mit_buegeleisen_ausloeten.htm
anyway.. bed for real now
see you later
Just FYI... Don't use teflon coated pans if you have small animals or persons with breathing difficulties. The outgas is highly toxic.
fenn: If you don't already have one, I LOVE mine http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91778
fenn: and it's on sale too
HF may be crap for tools, but ironically their electronics aren't too shabby for some odd reason. the IR Gun was great, and so was the CAN II code reader.
Oh great... It's 9/11 today *sigh*
"great"? are you celebrating?
Not me, just gonna try to avoid all the media hype
I didnt notice until you said it
* Vq^ read it in some local paper just some hour ago
this is nice: http://robosavvy.com/store/product_info.php/products_id/92
jeeze - that could waste a few months
yay, they release EOS 1Ds Mark III
a couple of months ago, I think
hmm.. not in europe
oh - ok then :)
I think that was EOS 1D Mark III
the 10 Mpixel one
but with 10 fps
no, I think the 22MP one was out a little bit ago, but I could be mistaken
alex_joni: didn't you just get a nice camera?
skunkworks: not this nice :D
actually mine's good enough for me
hmm.. and nikon releeased one with ISO-boost up to 25600
I was supprised at how nice my cheap camera takes videos - good enough for youtube. :) and with sound to boot.
anyone heard of Viridian?
isn't that one of those addictive pain killers?
virtualisation from microsoft
cradek: the guy you gave spindle encoder info to on cnczone said this on the turbocnc list 'sorry dave and all the rest of you i just got to jumpy now i am going back to turbo on my lathe emc is to hard to change setup turbo easy thanks dave and SORRY AGAIN'
I would guess - he didn't want to add a real encoder to his spindle. 1 ppr is enough for anybody.
well, try 3d contouring
been there done that..
wow, that's very hard to read, but I think I understand what it means
that's ok, he should do what makes him happy
I cut a try cutting a model rim.. :)
my bridgeport can run four blocks of gcode every second! beat that.
err well, try to cut a wheel(rim) model..
cradek: stock control
that's heidenhain right?
no, it's bridgeport
ok.. never heard about that
they made their own at the time I guess
the control at work does 125 :) I think
going to convert it to emc?
or are you happy as long as it works
it's pretty clumsy to use. I'll convert it in a few months maybe.
err make that 200 blocks..
the buttons are microwave membrane type buttons, and the display is 2 lines of LCD
very primitive and clumsy
I love the heidenhain and I wouldnt change it unless it blew up :)
you getting that?
sure but I have the book and know what they mean :-)
that's the extent of the error reporting
I really need to get my ass of the chair and fix my mill
make real motor mounts with gearboxes so I can cut stuff without resonance
Dave Kowalczyk poked his head back into the turbocnc group - saying it isn't dead. cool
* cradek preaches to the choir about free software being good
[insert standard lecture here]
you mean "Free"
free as in free beer
you can buy the source for like $60 so it is almost opensource ;)
"whee the one guy showed back up so it's not dead yet!" -> not Free
DFSG-Free, GPL Free, etc, etc
I will never go back - you can't make me.
For me Free as in Free Software is much more about the freedom to poke around with the software and change it if I want to, just imagine buying a lathe to find out you can't change even the smallest part of it because you will get sued :(
im quite happy if I can make parts actually
and if I dont need to fsck around to maek them..
I found that the top of the jaws on my vise aren't (at all) parallel to the base
at least the back (non-moving) jaw
can you adjust them?
I don't think I can recommend the cheapo enco vise
I haven't taken it apart yet
you can actually see space under one side of it
cradek: they usually screw the jaws in err jaw plates..
with a pair of bolts in the face..
better vises.. atleast
maybe I can loosen them and beat on the jaw while tightening?
that's easy enough
at least the base does seem pretty flat
dont count on it
I'll blue up the surface plate while I have it off
is yours a 6 inch cradek?
it doesn't seem quite flat while indicating it in, but that might be the mill :-/
I got one of those with my mill, the jaw back is held from underneath with two allen screws
skinnypuppy1334: ah ok
I noticed it has a piece of keystock, so it's two pieces
maybe there's crap under one side of it
didn't opt for a nice curt vice? ;)
we have a few enco ones - they do a lot of work
nope I got the $80 or so model
Another test is putting a dial atop the moving back half from above and adjust the lift when clamped factor on the back
yeah it seems fine, but it needs a little work
skinnypuppy1334: I don't follow
The back half of the vice that slides...
oh see how much the back "lifts" when you tighten it?
oh I see
two allen heads in the back
near the handle screw
have a taper slide that holds it down, too tight and well slides tight, too loose lifts a bit more. I find mine needs a little tightening every few months
just needs some playing with
it already makes parts, but last night I was a little afraid of hitting the top as I cut to the left - since I was close to the jaw
it rises about .015 across the length of it!
woooh got some chips under there if the jaw slides are flat to the bottom of the vice
cradek: I can't believe how much you are using it. what the heck are you making?
I've made things I've been waiting to make
now working on a better tool post for the atlas lathe
last night, made the big steel T nut thing for underneath
little parts like that take a surprisingly long time to get right
making an aloris type?
lots of setup and edge finding
skinnypuppy1334: the one that holds 4 tools at once and you can rotate it
(I'm avoiding doing dovetails so far)
turrets with a ballcheck are cool too
1/2-20 bolt will hold it down
I've made a aloris type for my 17" lathe, haven't cut the dovetails yet, I need to get a toolholder and measure over pins ..see what to cut to
cradek: dovetails are a pain
what swing is the atlas?
There's a lot of time I wish I had something smaller than the 13" enco.
Is your lathe cnc also cradek?
not that one
I had been curious about doing threading on a geared head lathe, simple spindle encoder do the trick?
emc threading that is
Thx been focusing on the mill, got the gecko shipping confirmation yesterday so :O)
changing a K word in the gcode is easier than changing gears...
cnc lathes are great.
yeah I figured the box selected speed would be close and figured an encoder would be needed to be accurate though
yeah I got spoiled at school on the haas sl20 live tooling YEEEHHA
Martini_ is now known as jlmjvm