#emc | Logs for 2007-09-08

[00:00:45] <^Fritz> I wonder how much lead piping contributes to insanity levels in urban centers?...
[00:00:54] <jmkasunich> I dunno
[00:01:09] <jmkasunich> I've been drinking thru about 50 feet of it for the past 17 years
[00:01:20] <jmkasunich> that could explain a few things....
[00:02:38] <archivist> inner oxidises and little leaches out into the water
[00:02:56] <jepler> "Research Links Lead Exposure, Criminal Activity" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/07/AR2007070701073.html?hpid=topnews
[00:03:41] <cradek> jepler: did you find any link to lesser forms of insanity like use of indent?
[00:03:43] <fenn> i'm kinda amazed that they still just put pipes and wires and stuff in the dirt
[00:04:05] <jmkasunich> fenn: where else do you suggest putting poop-pipes?
[00:04:08] <jmkasunich> on poles?
[00:04:30] <fenn> the packaging toilet was a good idea
[00:04:58] <jmkasunich> boxes-o-poop?
[00:05:00] <fenn> or, something that just incinerates it all
[00:05:07] <archivist> parceled turd
[00:05:36] <fenn> it heat seals the poop in a plastic bag, ends up looking like a big poop-filled tape-worm
[00:05:43] <fenn> the bag comes in a continuous sheet see
[00:06:04] <archivist> and the gasses explode the bag
[00:06:09] <^Fritz> more ammo for the spud launcher
[00:06:19] <jmkasunich> http://www.weblife.org/humanure/
[00:06:32] <jmkasunich> "A Guide to Composting Human Manure"
[00:07:21] <fenn> whatever it is, needs to be more convenient than a "conventional" toilet
[00:07:20] <jmkasunich> today the plumber told me he likes the smell of sewer gas
[00:07:28] <jmkasunich> "smells like money"
[00:07:53] <jmkasunich> hard to be more convenient than conventional
[00:08:08] <jmkasunich> push the little lever, say "bye bye", and it disappears
[00:08:20] <fenn> not 100% in my experience
[00:08:40] <archivist> not with a good solid log
[00:09:01] <fenn> and then you have a bunch of poopy water all over the floor, dripping on your machine tools
[00:09:07] <^Fritz> two rules of plumbing: shit rolls downhill, and don't bite your nails
[00:09:21] <jmkasunich> I still have older thrones - they flush with enthusiasm - not like the new reduced flow ones
[00:10:06] <^Fritz> The ones in the stores today like to say the can flush an entire bucket of golf balls
[00:10:19] <jmkasunich> that would be handy, if we shat golf-balls
[00:10:41] <^Fritz> If they could just make one that could do a bushel of pineapples...
[00:10:50] <fenn> oo nice use of the subjunctive tense
[00:12:44] <fenn> i can imagine an underground conduit with all the various wires and pipes you need inside of it
[00:13:09] <fenn> they could even have parcel delivery through it, like those vacuum tube things they used to have in office buildings
[00:13:33] <jmkasunich> fenn: unless its big enough for a man to get inside when something needs fixed, it would still need dug up
[00:13:41] <jmkasunich> not to mention that it would be incredibly expensive
[00:13:46] <fenn> yeah, it would be big enough to get inside, that's the point
[00:14:18] <jmkasunich> hah, that would make my project look like chump-change
[00:14:29] <fenn> for tightly packed urban housing, you'd just have a lid on top
[00:14:51] <fenn> a slab of concrete probably
[00:15:12] <jmkasunich> oh - make a trench, put a lid on it, and call it a sidewalk?
[00:15:18] <fenn> right
[00:15:23] <jmkasunich> just don't plant trees
[00:15:48] <jmkasunich> it would also have to have permanent cross-pieces of some sort, not just the lid
[00:16:01] <jmkasunich> or freezing would collapse the walls
[00:16:19] <fenn> you mean concrete walls?
[00:16:22] <jmkasunich> yes
[00:16:47] <jmkasunich> it all depends on the quality of construction of course
[00:17:00] <jmkasunich> but something built like a basement wall would be very expensive
[00:17:03] <fenn> what about that black plastic drainage pipe?
[00:17:10] <jmkasunich> what about it?
[00:17:17] <fenn> the thin stuff, flexible, corrugated etc
[00:17:27] <jmkasunich> round, and small - ground pressure is per unit area
[00:17:30] <fenn> seems pretty cheap and would do... something
[00:18:15] <fenn> i seem them using it for sewer pipe all the time
[00:18:24] <fenn> or street drainage maybe
[00:18:29] <jmkasunich> not bloody likely
[00:18:35] <jmkasunich> at least not in areas that have inspection
[00:18:41] <jmkasunich> storm drains maybe
[00:19:15] <Ziegler> Hey... any of you guys build a computer specifically for linux only? If so what motherboards do you have the most luck with?
[00:19:28] <fenn> uh, all of my computers are specifically for linux only :)
[00:19:34] <jmkasunich> ditto
[00:19:48] <jmkasunich> but I don't build enough to have any favorites
[00:19:56] <fenn> if you're asking about realtime performance, i have no idea what's best
[00:20:32] <jmkasunich> bbl - gotta walk the dog
[00:20:52] <Ziegler> Im looking for an ATX size... on board ethernet and sound. LGA 775 cpu
[00:21:10] <Ziegler> Gigabyte? Asus?
[00:21:43] <fenn> i think google would be more help than us
[00:21:52] <dmess> flavors of linux also affect mobo's
[00:22:10] <Ziegler> Im not look for specifics here... Im look for your own personal experience
[00:22:31] <fenn> in my own personal experience computers never work perfectly out of the box
[00:22:51] <fenn> and there's a random amount of effort you have to put in to make it work
[00:22:54] <Ziegler> Mine also... I tend to take old computers, and make linux work on them. I have never built a box specifically for linux
[00:23:23] <fenn> generally things that aren't cutting edge will work better with linux
[00:23:24] <dmess> likewis.. they usually come infected WITH the win-Blowz virus
[00:24:17] <Ziegler> How do you all push bios updates to windows only boards?
[00:24:57] <fenn> i've never updated a bios
[00:24:59] <dmess> who updates their bios on linux???
[00:25:03] <jepler> Ziegler: boot disk, or in-bios flasher .. though I've probably flashed a BIOS on less than 1/2 of the motherboards I've owned, maybe less than 1/4
[00:25:22] <jepler> (and don't remember it once fixing anything :-P)
[00:25:39] <Ziegler> hehe alright
[00:26:16] <dmess> once it works dont fa#$%kc withit... ; )
[00:36:44] <Guest565> boot disk - I have only had one motherboard fail.
[00:36:52] <Guest565> Guest565 is now known as skunkworks
[00:37:21] <skunkworks> and I think it was because I force the wronge bios image. iirc
[01:57:08] <jmkasunich> wow: http://www.hullnumber.com/sbp2.htm
[02:03:08] <SWPadnos> wavy
[02:03:28] <JymmmEMC> Got Dingy?
[02:03:40] <SWPadnos> I'd rather be on the cargo ship, thank you
[02:05:07] <JymmmEMC> I've always wondered how large a ship would you need to have to deal with the ocean currents like that.
[02:05:33] <SWPadnos> we were on a cruise in 40 foot seas, and hardly noticed
[02:05:39] <JymmmEMC> I have no idea on how large the off-shore oil rigs ares, but seem to dela with it.
[02:05:45] <SWPadnos> others noticed more though - they didn't serve much dinner in the dining room :)
[02:06:07] <SWPadnos> they're much better anchored, and are above the waves (ideally)
[02:06:35] <SWPadnos> so the area that gets affected by wave action is much smaller on an oil rig than on a boat
[02:07:10] <JymmmEMC> ah
[02:07:58] <fenn> supposedly "freak waves" can reach 100m in height
[02:08:16] <SWPadnos> as I said - ideally the platform is above the waves ;)
[02:08:24] <fenn> thats a tall platform
[02:08:49] <SWPadnos> well, a 100m wave would be over the platform, which is why they get damaged in hurricanes and such
[02:09:34] <fenn> freak waves arent from hurricanes, they're just sort of random
[02:09:40] <SWPadnos> here's an interesting boat design: http://www.solarnavigator.net/s_w_a_t_h.htm
[02:09:42] <fenn> due to "wave mechanics" hehehe
[02:09:45] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:09:50] <SWPadnos> superposition in action
[02:11:19] <SWPadnos> if you make the uprights have the same density as the water, then any wave that doesn't go further up or down than the upright should have mo effect on the boat
[02:11:28] <SWPadnos> s/mo/no/
[02:11:54] <fenn> i thought it was just about the cross sectional area
[02:12:09] <SWPadnos> reducing cross section does a lot of good
[02:12:17] <fenn> hydrodynamic drag, precisely
[02:12:52] <SWPadnos> I started thinking about those boats when I first saw one about 10 years ago, and figured that making the density of the uprights "neutral" would also make a difference
[02:13:13] <SWPadnos> oh, drag isn't the issue for stability during wave action
[02:14:05] <fenn> most of my thinking along these lines has been for platforms - usually i think of it as some kind of steel truss structure
[02:14:37] <fenn> you'd have to coat it in poison to keep the seaweed off
[02:14:41] <SWPadnos> platforms may want reduced drag so currents won't stress the frame as much
[02:14:47] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:16:46] <fenn> i mean up/down drag
[02:17:12] <SWPadnos> ah
[03:48:03] <Martini> SWPadnos:u here
[03:53:58] <Martini> cradek:you know anything about differental encoders
[03:54:26] <cradek> what about them?
[03:55:17] <Martini> im wanting to put 5v to 1 and try to read the pulses with a multimeter,can that be done
[03:55:35] <Martini> turn by hand
[03:57:16] <cradek> sure, just put the meter on +A and -A, or +B and -B
[03:57:39] <cradek> differential means the signal is the difference between the + and - channel, so that's what you measure
[03:58:14] <cradek> you'll have to turn it VERY slow to see the signal though. What you really want is a scope, or failing that, a logic probe
[03:58:50] <cradek> you're not wanting to count the pulses, only see them, right? you'll never be able to count them with a meter
[03:59:06] <Martini> yes,just see something
[03:59:59] <Martini> these ebay pacsi steppers i bought for 35 dollars had some 240 accu-coder encoders already on them
[04:00:12] <Martini> 240 dollar
[04:00:49] <cradek> well that's pretty nice
[04:01:41] <Martini> but the mylar disk inside looks wierd,doesnt really have lines,more like slots
[04:03:13] <Martini> if i can just get an index pulse
[04:03:39] <cradek> the index pulse is very short - you'll have to hunt carefully for it
[04:05:03] <Martini> could an a= pulse be used for an index,say if you only had 4 counts per rev
[04:05:35] <Martini> a+
[04:14:13] <cradek> I don't understand the question
[04:21:19] <Martini> this encoder doesnt have an index,was wondering if i could use an a+ signal
[04:21:36] <cradek> use it for what?
[04:21:43] <Martini> an index
[04:21:58] <cradek> the point of an index is that there's only one per revolution
[04:22:48] <Martini> yes,agreed,just trying to make something out of nothing
[04:23:25] <Martini> i think this has a very low cpr,like 4 per revolution
[04:23:38] <cradek> not much of an encoder then
[04:24:06] <Martini> it was on a stepper motor in a atm machine for a bank
[04:24:42] <Martini> i can prolly order some different disks for them
[04:25:01] <cradek> you generally can't change disks, because the sensor and disk have to match
[04:25:17] <Martini> just my luck
[04:25:48] <Martini> gonna mount it tommorow and see how many counts per rev it is
[04:26:27] <Martini> thanks for the info
[04:26:41] <cradek> welcome, good luck
[04:27:40] <Martini> if you wanted to read this into a breakout bout just connec the a+ and b+ ?
[04:27:47] <Martini> connect
[04:28:34] <cradek> sometimes you can get by reading just the + signals as single-ended, but it is meant to work with a differential receiver and that's pretty much a necessity if you have a noisy environment like servos
[04:29:00] <Martini> steppers
[04:29:14] <cradek> steppers don't need encoders anyway
[04:29:47] <Martini> i know,but i want ferror and index homing
[04:30:12] <cradek> sorry to state the obvious but you can't have that without an index channel
[04:30:54] <Martini> true with these,but could still get ferror couldnt i
[04:31:16] <cradek> yes if you have a way to read the encoders that will keep up with the step rate you want
[04:31:31] <Martini> cool
[04:31:49] <cradek> that's just hal configuration
[04:32:12] <Martini> gonna hook up a+ and b+,spin motor 1 rev and cout the pulses to see what i have
[04:32:28] <cradek> no numbers on the encoder?
[04:32:42] <Martini> no,its a special
[04:32:58] <Martini> cant find any info on the website
[04:33:37] <Martini> but it was giving a reading a min ago when i had it hooked up to the meter
[04:35:12] <Martini> well im off to bed,thanks again
[04:35:56] <cradek> g'night
[04:38:14] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[05:05:23] <robboplus> what are my chances of getting into cnc industry without any background like that?
[05:05:47] <robboplus> e.g. if i wanted to become a cnc machine operator/programmer?
[06:33:23] <skinnypuppy1334> Robbo google around on cnc and gcode
[06:33:26] <skinnypuppy1334> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-code
[06:44:26] <fenn> just tell 'em you know how to press the green button :P
[06:44:59] <fenn> then bug the shit out of the programmers every day
[06:58:06] <Skullworks-PGA1> fenn: just tell 'em you know how to press the green button :P fenn: then bug the shit out of the programmers every day - This is closer to the truth than many realise.
[07:00:01] <Skullworks-PGA1> I'm loosing my cushy job as a green button pusher.
[07:00:18] <Skullworks-PGA1> company is being sold
[07:01:24] <Skullworks-PGA1> I get fired next week - un-employed for the weekend - hired by new company on monday.
[07:02:41] <Skullworks-PGA1> but someone figured out I was allready at $1.57 over the top of the wage ceiling for a "production operator".
[07:03:37] <Skullworks-PGA1> so I was not offered my "old" position with new company - now I have to be the building setup lead and run around puttion out fires etc.
[07:04:59] <Skullworks-PGA1> oh well - at least I did get an offer - not a retirement letter...
[07:08:17] <fenn> rise to your level of incompetence
[07:09:49] <fenn> damn digikey and their 25 qty price breaks
[07:25:55] <JymmmEMC> Skullworks-PGA1: Sorry to hear that, but glad at least they offered you a job. It's very rough out there anymore.
[07:26:27] <JymmmEMC> Skullworks-PGA1: At least a new postion means a new higher ceiling too.
[08:45:46] <JymmmEMC> http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/dataformats/oogl/#OFF
[10:12:17] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[10:14:29] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[16:59:14] <etla> etla is now known as awallin_
[16:59:20] <awallin_> hi all
[16:59:32] <awallin_> how do I check the Ubuntu version I am running?
[17:00:08] <eric_u> is there a file called /etc/issue?
[17:00:30] <awallin_> eric_u: nope...
[17:00:45] <awallin_> ah, now I found it.
[17:00:57] <awallin_> I have 5.10 and I remember some things were not working right
[17:01:06] <awallin_> so I need to upgrade to 6.06 probably
[17:02:19] <awallin_> * awallin_ is rebooting and installing 6.06lts
[17:02:21] <awallin_> bye
[17:41:42] <tomp2> re: m5i20, hal_integrator sez m5i20.0.out-08 (P4pin33) is not used and m5i20.0.dac-00.enable (p2pin23) is used.
[17:41:48] <tomp2> HOSTM54E.PIN sez IO11 is ENA0 (P2pin23, aka m5i20.0.dac-00-enable).
[17:41:58] <tomp2> file m5i20_10.hal sez linksp Xenable => m5i20.0.out-08 (aka P4p33) and sez linksp Xenable => m5i20.0.dac-00-enab;e (aka P2p23).
[17:42:00] <tomp2> do both pins get wired to the control signal or just 1?
[17:57:08] <SWPadnos> tomp2, I think you only need to connect both pins if you want the enable signal elsewhere
[17:57:28] <SWPadnos> it's the P2/23 connection that actually enables the PWM output from the 7i33 card
[17:57:42] <SWPadnos> (or whichever number that card is)
[18:02:52] <tomp2> thanks, i thought something in firmware might require pwm to be disabled when amp was disabled ( tho it seems you can yell at a dead horse, it just has no effect )
[18:04:00] <SWPadnos> oh - good point. you probably do want to bring the XEnable out to the actual amp ;)
[18:04:13] <tomp2> ?
[18:04:37] <SWPadnos> the P2/23 connection enables the PWM (DAC) output on the 7i33 card
[18:04:59] <SWPadnos> the P3/33 connection goes out to the actual servo amp to enable it
[18:05:03] <tomp2> oh right, brain fart
[18:05:20] <SWPadnos> yeah, me too (guess they're contagious)
[18:05:36] <tomp2> :) like hiccups & sneezin
[18:06:40] <tomp2> thanks, makin cables now, got breakouts from the guy in bollingbook, nice DAQstuff
[18:06:50] <SWPadnos> ah, cool
[18:09:18] <JymmmEMC> Hawt Damn! http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0634907320070906?src=090607_1644_DOUBLEFEATURE_apple_to_offer_refund&pageNumber=2&sp=true
[18:14:45] <LawrenceG> hey JymmmEMC .... found an interesting console that work for emc... midi stuff http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/iControl-main.html
[18:15:28] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC: lots of knobs and buttons..... I wonder if there is rt midi support?
[18:16:11] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC: for most panels, user mode should be quick enough
[18:16:44] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: I have as much musical talent as a banchi
[18:17:13] <LawrenceG> well with daisy.ngc, you can be a star!
[18:17:41] <JymmmEMC> lol
[18:18:32] <JymmmEMC> http://www.m-audio.com/images/en/callouts/big/iControl_callouts.jpg
[18:19:03] <JymmmEMC> For $100, you could always rip it apart for the rotary encoders
[18:19:42] <SWPadnos> those encoders are probably 16 or maybe as much as 32 counts (not cycles) per rev
[18:20:04] <LawrenceG> watching video now
[18:21:10] <JymmmEMC> USB iface + 5 midi inputs
[18:21:35] <LawrenceG> pid tuning would be cool with all the knobs!
[18:21:56] <SWPadnos> I suspect those things would work out of the box with hal_input
[18:22:19] <SWPadnos> as long as they're HID
[18:22:33] <LawrenceG> that is a lot if i/o in one box.... very cool
[18:22:56] <LawrenceG> few wires to deal with
[18:22:56] <SWPadnos> I dunno what the MIDI endpoints would look like
[18:23:02] <JymmmEMC> Just need USB control in emc
[18:23:14] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, shut up, will you? :)
[18:23:28] <SWPadnos> there is USB user control, but not on the motion end
[18:23:35] <SWPadnos> read the logs again if you want to see why :)
[18:23:49] <LawrenceG> midi is getting a lot of attention in the software defined radio groups as a control interface
[18:24:24] <SWPadnos> midi or USB are fine for realtime inthe milliseconds range. it's microseconds that make either unusable
[18:24:38] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: that makes sense. PC radio control is cool, but I still like me kobs and controls on the radio itself.
[18:24:58] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: ah, gotcha
[18:25:08] <tomp2> for those whose browser wont open the qt mov, you can save this to disk http://www.m-audio.com/images/global/videos/iControl.mov
[18:25:21] <LawrenceG> it really expands I/O to the computer.... agreed... its not for stepper i/o, but for human interaction its very good
[18:26:26] <SWPadnos> yep. on a human timescale it's very snappy
[18:26:54] <LawrenceG> imagine each knob tied to a G92 offset!
[18:27:07] <SWPadnos> now that's just plain crazy talk
[18:27:31] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Look who's talking =)
[18:27:38] <LawrenceG> tweak to pixture position and hit run
[18:27:41] <SWPadnos> takes one to know one :)
[18:27:43] <LawrenceG> fixture
[18:27:54] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: damn skippy!
[18:28:24] <JymmmEMC> argh... Day 4 of single-page tutorial... half way there!
[18:29:20] <LawrenceG> now if we could just re-engrave the button legends
[18:31:02] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: those lil poem magnets, you can but they that can run thru your laser printer
[18:34:38] <^Fritz> This is what I'm playing with for my EMC console/pendant project: http://ultimarc.com/ipac1.html
[18:35:15] <JymmmEMC> ^Fritz: Yeah, I thought those would be cool for a pendant
[18:35:29] <JymmmEMC> ^Fritz: did you get the USB or PS/2 one?
[18:37:05] <^Fritz> USB
[18:37:25] <JymmmEMC> ^Fritz: You should hookup a coin collector to it! LOL $0.25 to CNC a part! LOL
[18:38:00] <^Fritz> Nah...use a $5 dollar changer for input
[18:38:30] <^Fritz> To be a fly on the wall when EMC says "Game Over" :)
[18:38:33] <JymmmEMC> Make it a $20 bill collector
[18:38:49] <JymmmEMC> Charge $1/minute
[18:39:04] <JymmmEMC> NO REFUNDS!
[18:39:11] <JymmmEMC> CNC AT YOUR OWN RISK
[18:40:23] <^Fritz> Combine it one of those quarter-eating drop-the-claw-and-snatch-stuffed-toy rigs for the part changer
[18:40:50] <JymmmEMC> ROTF!!!
[18:41:34] <^Fritz> Whatya think, Jymmm? Open one up as a display at a machine tech convention?
[18:41:45] <JymmmEMC> Except for the liability factor, it really wouldn't be a bad thing
[18:42:10] <JymmmEMC> Vending machine CNC
[18:43:20] <JymmmEMC> WalMart has those CNC engravers for pet tags
[18:47:48] <Martini> SWPadnos:Do you think you could make this work with emc?http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.aspx?Image=23-999-044-01.jpg%2c23-999-044-02.jpg%2c23-999-044-03.jpg%2c23-999-044-04.jpg&S7ImageFlag=0&Depa=0&Description=Contour+ShuttlePRO+V.2+-+15+Button+Jog+%26+Shuttle+Multimedia+Control+Surface+with+alloy+Jog+wheel
[18:48:14] <SWPadnos> it should work already
[18:48:40] <Martini> it didnt before when i first started fooling with emc
[18:48:44] <SWPadnos> there may be some quirks that need to be added to the kernel, if it's like the jog/shuttle "non-pro"
[18:49:05] <Martini> they have the jog shuttle now?
[18:49:06] <SWPadnos> that may have been before jepler wrote hal_input
[18:49:32] <SWPadnos> hal_input works with any HID (Human Interface Device) that works wirh Linux
[18:49:40] <Martini> i wish somebody had told me,i got 1 sitting here on the desk
[18:49:48] <JymmmEMC> Neural Interface?
[18:49:53] <SWPadnos> plug it in, load up hal_input, and see what it reports
[18:50:12] <JymmmEMC> Neural Interface a la Matrix style!
[18:50:23] <SWPadnos> I don't know if hal_input is in 2.1.7, but it will be in 2.2
[18:50:40] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, if you have a USB neural interface, it should work :)
[18:50:43] <Martini> who would know?
[18:51:07] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Sorry, mine is straight serial... no polling
[18:51:16] <Martini> lemmee reboot brb
[18:52:12] <SWPadnos> yep - it's in 2.1.x
[18:54:42] <SWPadnos> yep - it's in 2.1.x
[18:54:48] <SWPadnos> nevermind
[18:55:03] <SWPadnos> yep - it's in 2.1.x
[18:55:30] <SWPadnos> for x > 2
[18:55:33] <Martini> the shuttle
[18:57:12] <SWPadnos> I don't know what the exact command line you'll need is, but if you get HAL going then run `halcmd loaduser hal_input /your/device/node` or similar, there should be a binch of pins exported from hal_user
[18:57:14] <Martini> i have it plugged in,but no movement
[18:57:23] <SWPadnos> you need to load the hal_input driver
[18:57:45] <SWPadnos> and then connect the various controls to things in HAL, like jog-counts or cycle start, etc.
[18:58:00] <JymmmEMC> Coffee maker,
[18:58:04] <SWPadnos> man hal_input for more information
[18:58:12] <SWPadnos> (I think)
[18:58:29] <Martini> where is the hal driver
[18:58:46] <Martini> hal input driver
[18:58:56] <SWPadnos> I don't know where it lives, but it's available with halcmd
[18:59:05] <SWPadnos> and it's hal_input - one word with an underscore
[19:00:12] <Martini> is this something you add to the ini file
[19:00:21] <SWPadnos> yes
[19:00:46] <SWPadnos> hal_input gives you input bits for buttons, input floats for sliders and that kind of thing, and bit outputs for LEDs
[19:01:07] <Martini> k,now if i can locate it,lol
[19:01:14] <SWPadnos> but it's just like everything else in HAL/EMC2 - it doesn't do anything by default- you have to tell it where you want the controls connected
[19:01:25] <SWPadnos> did you look at the manpage?
[19:02:16] <Martini> what first time ive heard of it
[19:02:35] <SWPadnos> [14:58:20]<SWPadnos>man hal_input for more information
[19:03:03] <Martini> today i mean
[19:03:10] <tomp2> the video is impressive. the metaphor of time based sequencing is interesting ( imagines "i'd like flood on thru this bit" , "I'd use tool (voice) #3 thru this section..." )
[19:03:12] <Martini> i have the emc manual
[19:03:32] <Martini> or is this in the show hal
[19:03:37] <SWPadnos> the man page is wuite good - tells you the options you have for specifying the device and what you get when it works
[19:03:42] <JymmmEMC> AME
[19:03:42] <JymmmEMC> hal_input - control HAL pins with any Linux input device, including USB
[19:03:42] <JymmmEMC> HID devices
[19:03:42] <JymmmEMC> SYNOPSIS
[19:03:42] <JymmmEMC> loadusr hal_input [-KRAL] inputspec ...
[19:03:42] <JymmmEMC> DESCRIPTION
[19:03:44] <JymmmEMC> hal_input is an interface between HAL and any Linux input device,
[19:03:46] <JymmmEMC> including USB HID devices. For each device named, hal_input creates
[19:03:49] <JymmmEMC> pins corresponding to its keys, absolute axes, and LEDs. At a fixed
[19:03:51] <JymmmEMC> rate of approximately 10ms, it synchronizes the device and the HAL
[19:03:53] <JymmmEMC> pins.
[19:03:56] <JymmmEMC> The inputspec may be in one of several form
[19:03:57] <SWPadnos> go to a terminal, and type "man hal_input" (without the quotes)
[19:04:15] <Martini> ahhh,terminal,sorry for the confusion
[19:04:19] <SWPadnos> no problem
[19:04:36] <SWPadnos> it may be available somewhere in the EMC docs, and/or withthe GUI manpage browser
[19:04:44] <tomp2> and we can do all that with hal & pyvcp and no hardware at all ( just gui control panels ) do people want hardware instead?
[19:04:49] <SWPadnos> but I don';t know offhand where or how to get to it thaose ways
[19:05:00] <SWPadnos> yes
[19:05:26] <SWPadnos> it's s lot easier to spin a know without looking at a display than it is to mouse around a virtual knob
[19:05:30] <SWPadnos> s/know/knob/
[19:05:39] <tomp2> man hal_input works here
[19:05:54] <tomp2> yes, feely feedback, agreed
[19:06:10] <tomp2> aldous huxley, the feelies :)
[19:06:14] <SWPadnos> I think the key there is that you don't need to look to see what you're doing
[19:06:16] <JymmmEMC> and a lil arm that slaps you in the face when you've hit the limit.
[19:06:39] <JymmmEMC> "Interactive Feedback"
[19:06:40] <SWPadnos> that's one of the things Mac-o-philes always talk about - the "mile-high menu"
[19:07:09] <SWPadnos> you can't go above the menu, since all pixels up to the top of the screen are part of the active area
[19:07:10] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Hey, lil shock thingy as feedback
[19:07:24] <SWPadnos> so you don't have to look too hard to be sure you're in exactly the right place
[19:08:31] <JymmmEMC> I wonder if you could alter the waveform enough that it would be distinguisable...
[19:08:44] <JymmmEMC> like a pulse
[19:09:44] <JymmmEMC> could even use a metalic knob that sends the shock thru your finger tips
[19:13:27] <tomp2> the metaphor of a handheld remote allows you to look at thingy-to-be-controlled by looking past thingy-that-is-the-controller. both are in view at once
[19:14:05] <JymmmEMC> Not sure about the bothinview part
[19:14:34] <tomp2> allows
[19:15:00] <JymmmEMC> Well, consider touch typing.... you dont look at the kybd.
[19:16:21] <tomp2> true, the handheld allows both in view at once, the keyboard would be difficult to be in view as well as the screen
[19:17:14] <JymmmEMC> When I use a NUMPAD for jogging, I never look at it, just the tool I'm trying to align.
[19:17:29] <tomp2> yes
[19:18:10] <JymmmEMC> Same with driving a car... I don't look at the gas/brake pedals
[19:19:01] <Martini> im not having any luck finding the hal file,
[19:19:32] <Martini> is it on the website like the joypad.hal is
[19:20:58] <tomp2> if ( from a terminal ), "man hal_input" doesnt work, then you dont have a new enuf version. you can read about it on http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man1/hal_input.1.html
[19:23:55] <Martini> thanks,this definately doesnt look like plug n play,lol
[19:24:57] <Martini> may abandon ship on this for time being,in the middle of putting in some new drives
[19:25:54] <tomp2> and i see it is a python script that creates the pins yourhome/youremcinstall/src/ha/user_comps/hal_input.py you gotthat file??
[19:26:04] <Martini> the shuttle does work very well with mach3,gotta get it going with emc
[19:26:27] <Martini> dunno for sure,prolly not
[19:26:43] <tomp2> s/ha/hal
[19:26:44] <Martini> i can pastebin what i got if you wanna see
[19:26:54] <tomp2> ok
[19:27:55] <Martini> is my ini file what u need
[19:28:06] <tomp2> no,
[19:28:16] <Martini> what do u need
[19:28:31] <tomp2> if you want that capability, you have to have teh files that allow it
[19:28:39] <tomp2> configuration is after ability
[19:28:42] <tomp2> so
[19:28:54] <jmkasunich> Martini: you will NOT be able to effectively use hal_input unless you are comfortable hooking up HAL components
[19:29:25] <jmkasunich> EMC lets you control almost anything using almost anything - but the tradeoff is that YOU must decide what controls what, and make the corresponding connections
[19:29:56] <tomp2> so, you tell me if you have the file yourhome/youremcinstall/src/ha/user_comps/hal_input.py ( and yes to what jmk just said )
[19:30:16] <tomp2> s/ha/hal (doh!)
[19:32:27] <Martini> cant find it
[19:33:14] <tomp2> Martini: what youwant to do is similar to xement's use of a usb joypad from an xbox.... the similarity is that its a usb device you'd like to use with emc. the work involved is described at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Using_A_Joypad_To_Move_Your_CNC_Machine
[19:33:16] <Martini> so hal_input has the ability to run the shuttle,but there is no shuttle.hal already made?
[19:33:21] <jmkasunich> right
[19:33:40] <Martini> cool,sorry it took me so long to catch that
[19:33:46] <jmkasunich> hal files are used to configure a machine to the specific owner's wants and needs
[19:34:00] <jmkasunich> we only supply a few samples, there are as many possibilities are there are people
[19:34:06] <Martini> and im not at that point quite yet
[19:34:16] <jmkasunich> its best to start simple
[19:34:24] <jmkasunich> you can add things to your hal file later
[19:34:37] <Martini> alredy have a fully working bp mill
[19:34:45] <tomp2> not far from that point :) becuz you're interested :)
[19:34:58] <Martini> yep
[19:35:29] <Martini> putting in some 203v gecko drives today and some new steppers
[19:35:46] <Martini> adding encoders next weekend
[19:36:01] <anonimasu> why?
[19:36:12] <anonimasu> err why bother with steppers and encoders
[19:36:15] <Martini> homing to index,and ferror
[19:36:59] <tomp2> is there an 'order' to wire colors? i often have a zillion wires to choose from, it'd be different if orange were #1 amd blue striped red were #2
[19:37:23] <anonimasu> does emc2 support that stuff yet?
[19:37:24] <jmkasunich> no order that I know of - everybody does their own thing
[19:37:26] <Martini> motors already have shafts,and us digital has an encoder to mount direct to motor
[19:37:33] <tomp2> tx
[19:37:33] <anonimasu> or are you running, with a usc?
[19:38:15] <Martini> may get a usc later,wanna do it with 2 paraports first
[19:38:33] <anonimasu> well, you will end up implementing encoder feedback yourself
[19:38:45] <anonimasu> afaik..
[19:38:54] <anonimasu> though homing to index is nice
[19:39:55] <Martini> gotta be,when i make parts they are usually exspensive
[19:40:37] <Martini> well i gotta get busy,will worry bout the shuttle later
[19:40:39] <anonimasu> so, are you going to implement ferror for the stepper driver?
[19:41:23] <Martini> thought it would estop if a motor got outta position
[19:41:48] <JymmmEMC> tomp2: there is the 25pair cabling "standard"
[19:41:59] <anonimasu> Martini: with servos yes
[19:42:22] <Martini> was told it would work with steppers also
[19:42:34] <anonimasu> ok
[19:42:45] <JymmmEMC> Anyone used these? http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00942451000P?vName=Tools&keyword=wrench
[19:43:13] <anonimasu> yes
[19:43:29] <JymmmEMC> anonimasu: and?
[19:43:39] <anonimasu> they do what they go..
[19:43:48] <anonimasu> do
[19:43:50] <anonimasu> :)
[19:43:57] <anonimasu> and they cost lots(atleast for bacho ones)
[19:44:14] <JymmmEMC> anonimasu: how's the ratching? smooth? course?
[19:44:35] <anonimasu> I dont know about your brand..
[19:44:40] <anonimasu> bur the ones I used were smooth
[19:44:42] <anonimasu> fairly..
[19:44:54] <anonimasu> ofcourse they go click click but with small increments
[19:45:27] <JymmmEMC> smooth action in tight spaces goes a long way
[19:46:02] <anonimasu> yep
[19:47:48] <skinnypuppy1334> yep the craftsman boxed end ratchets are nice.
[19:48:53] <anonimasu> Martini: then it probably will :)
[19:49:30] <skinnypuppy1334> I'm still waiting for one with a worm gear, you can hold the wrench still and turn the knob at the other end...
[19:49:54] <JymmmEMC> lol
[19:50:27] <skinnypuppy1334> yeah they wouldn't be all that usefull except for that one $%$#%$#%$^ bolt ya know
[19:50:37] <SWPadnos> I jus tgot those wrenches (metric and imperial) - they were on sale for $32.99 a set or thereabouts
[19:50:36] <JymmmEMC> yep
[19:50:55] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: damn
[19:51:06] <JymmmEMC> I'd buy if that was the price
[19:51:08] <SWPadnos> yeah - one of those flyers with the "get it before noon" section
[19:51:16] <JymmmEMC> *sigh*
[19:51:34] <Skullworks-PGA1> wonder if they could make an "index only" unit. - something where there is a single index pulse that is very narrow to use just for homing.
[19:51:35] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: wasn't today/tomorrow was it???
[19:51:56] <Skullworks-PGA1> not a complete encoder?
[19:57:50] <skinnypuppy1334> Who are you guys buying small toothed drive belts from?
[20:00:10] <anonimasu> mulco
[20:00:35] <anonimasu> I cant remember the name of the maker though
[20:04:06] <tomp2> mcmaster carr ( depends on what you mean by small )
[20:04:11] <tomp2> they're gates
[20:04:16] <SWPadnos> www.sdp-si.com
[20:04:30] <SWPadnos> or mcmaster or MSC
[20:04:38] <JymmmEMC> ebay.com
[20:05:27] <Skullworks-PGA1> https://sdp-si.com/eStore/
[20:05:38] <skinnypuppy1334> sdp-si belive that was what I was looking for
[20:06:27] <skinnypuppy1334> thanks again guys, waiting on some geckos and thinking of drive componets.
[20:07:40] <tomp2> http://www.mcmaster.com/ search for 'timimg belt' slide down to 'pitch'
[20:10:05] <skinnypuppy1334> Would 1/2 inch wide be sufficient or ideal for XY on a BP style manual retrofit?
[20:10:51] <Martini> my factory bp uses 1/2 on quill,3/4 on x and y
[20:11:05] <Martini> 1/2 would prolly work
[20:12:13] <Skullworks-PGA1> 1/2 would work with low gearing (3,4,5:1)
[20:12:37] <Skullworks-PGA1> less than 3:1 I would go up to 3/4
[20:13:40] <skinnypuppy1334> Sounds good. Thanks for the additional skullworks
[20:36:30] <Skullworks-PGA1> Skullworks-PGA1 is now known as Skullworks-PGAB
[21:19:24] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/bitfile.h: fix comment
[21:59:19] <skunkworks_> lets recap - the engraver has been on ebay for about 2 days - 200 people have looked at it. I have 13 people 'watching' it so far (cool) and I have gotten a bunch of emails. the emails are 'could you fix my ep module?', 'I have a 7000 - could I do the same?', 'would you concider selling the dongle separately', 'how did you get videos to work on ebay?'
[22:01:55] <fenn> how did you get the videos to work on ebay?
[22:02:09] <anonimasu> use ie.
[22:02:32] <skunkworks_> suprisingly - all you have to do is paste the embeded script youtube gives you.
[22:02:33] <anonimasu> or link youtube ;)
[22:02:37] <anonimasu> err embed
[22:26:44] <Skullworks-PGAB> ebay :~
[22:27:20] <fenn> weird - irssi crashed
[22:28:53] <jmkasunich2_> it crashed right after you sent some escape sequences to emc-devel
[22:44:38] <JymmmEMC> http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/ROP/ads.aspx?advid=32664&adid=5005110&subid=17550941&type=
[23:43:26] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/bfload.c: modify bfload to understand the difference between 5i20 and 5i22 bitfiles, detect the different types of boards, and invoke the relevant loader functions - the 5i22 function isn't written yet