I wonder how much lead piping contributes to insanity levels in urban centers?...
I've been drinking thru about 50 feet of it for the past 17 years
that could explain a few things....
inner oxidises and little leaches out into the water
"Research Links Lead Exposure, Criminal Activity" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/07/AR2007070701073.html?hpid=topnews
jepler: did you find any link to lesser forms of insanity like use of indent?
i'm kinda amazed that they still just put pipes and wires and stuff in the dirt
fenn: where else do you suggest putting poop-pipes?
the packaging toilet was a good idea
or, something that just incinerates it all
it heat seals the poop in a plastic bag, ends up looking like a big poop-filled tape-worm
the bag comes in a continuous sheet see
and the gasses explode the bag
more ammo for the spud launcher
[00:06:19] <jmkasunich> http://www.weblife.org/humanure/
"A Guide to Composting Human Manure"
whatever it is, needs to be more convenient than a "conventional" toilet
today the plumber told me he likes the smell of sewer gas
"smells like money"
hard to be more convenient than conventional
push the little lever, say "bye bye", and it disappears
not 100% in my experience
not with a good solid log
and then you have a bunch of poopy water all over the floor, dripping on your machine tools
two rules of plumbing: shit rolls downhill, and don't bite your nails
I still have older thrones - they flush with enthusiasm - not like the new reduced flow ones
The ones in the stores today like to say the can flush an entire bucket of golf balls
that would be handy, if we shat golf-balls
If they could just make one that could do a bushel of pineapples...
oo nice use of the subjunctive tense
i can imagine an underground conduit with all the various wires and pipes you need inside of it
they could even have parcel delivery through it, like those vacuum tube things they used to have in office buildings
fenn: unless its big enough for a man to get inside when something needs fixed, it would still need dug up
not to mention that it would be incredibly expensive
yeah, it would be big enough to get inside, that's the point
hah, that would make my project look like chump-change
for tightly packed urban housing, you'd just have a lid on top
a slab of concrete probably
oh - make a trench, put a lid on it, and call it a sidewalk?
just don't plant trees
it would also have to have permanent cross-pieces of some sort, not just the lid
or freezing would collapse the walls
you mean concrete walls?
it all depends on the quality of construction of course
but something built like a basement wall would be very expensive
what about that black plastic drainage pipe?
what about it?
the thin stuff, flexible, corrugated etc
round, and small - ground pressure is per unit area
seems pretty cheap and would do... something
i seem them using it for sewer pipe all the time
or street drainage maybe
not bloody likely
at least not in areas that have inspection
storm drains maybe
Hey... any of you guys build a computer specifically for linux only? If so what motherboards do you have the most luck with?
uh, all of my computers are specifically for linux only :)
but I don't build enough to have any favorites
if you're asking about realtime performance, i have no idea what's best
bbl - gotta walk the dog
Im looking for an ATX size... on board ethernet and sound. LGA 775 cpu
i think google would be more help than us
flavors of linux also affect mobo's
Im not look for specifics here... Im look for your own personal experience
in my own personal experience computers never work perfectly out of the box
and there's a random amount of effort you have to put in to make it work
Mine also... I tend to take old computers, and make linux work on them. I have never built a box specifically for linux
generally things that aren't cutting edge will work better with linux
likewis.. they usually come infected WITH the win-Blowz virus
How do you all push bios updates to windows only boards?
i've never updated a bios
who updates their bios on linux???
Ziegler: boot disk, or in-bios flasher .. though I've probably flashed a BIOS on less than 1/2 of the motherboards I've owned, maybe less than 1/4
(and don't remember it once fixing anything :-P)
once it works dont fa#$%kc withit... ; )
boot disk - I have only had one motherboard fail.
Guest565 is now known as skunkworks
and I think it was because I force the wronge bios image. iirc
I'd rather be on the cargo ship, thank you
I've always wondered how large a ship would you need to have to deal with the ocean currents like that.
we were on a cruise in 40 foot seas, and hardly noticed
I have no idea on how large the off-shore oil rigs ares, but seem to dela with it.
others noticed more though - they didn't serve much dinner in the dining room :)
they're much better anchored, and are above the waves (ideally)
so the area that gets affected by wave action is much smaller on an oil rig than on a boat
supposedly "freak waves" can reach 100m in height
as I said - ideally the platform is above the waves ;)
thats a tall platform
well, a 100m wave would be over the platform, which is why they get damaged in hurricanes and such
freak waves arent from hurricanes, they're just sort of random
here's an interesting boat design: http://www.solarnavigator.net/s_w_a_t_h.htm
due to "wave mechanics" hehehe
superposition in action
if you make the uprights have the same density as the water, then any wave that doesn't go further up or down than the upright should have mo effect on the boat
i thought it was just about the cross sectional area
reducing cross section does a lot of good
hydrodynamic drag, precisely
I started thinking about those boats when I first saw one about 10 years ago, and figured that making the density of the uprights "neutral" would also make a difference
oh, drag isn't the issue for stability during wave action
most of my thinking along these lines has been for platforms - usually i think of it as some kind of steel truss structure
you'd have to coat it in poison to keep the seaweed off
platforms may want reduced drag so currents won't stress the frame as much
i mean up/down drag
cradek:you know anything about differental encoders
what about them?
im wanting to put 5v to 1 and try to read the pulses with a multimeter,can that be done
turn by hand
sure, just put the meter on +A and -A, or +B and -B
differential means the signal is the difference between the + and - channel, so that's what you measure
you'll have to turn it VERY slow to see the signal though. What you really want is a scope, or failing that, a logic probe
you're not wanting to count the pulses, only see them, right? you'll never be able to count them with a meter
yes,just see something
these ebay pacsi steppers i bought for 35 dollars had some 240 accu-coder encoders already on them
well that's pretty nice
but the mylar disk inside looks wierd,doesnt really have lines,more like slots
if i can just get an index pulse
the index pulse is very short - you'll have to hunt carefully for it
could an a= pulse be used for an index,say if you only had 4 counts per rev
I don't understand the question
this encoder doesnt have an index,was wondering if i could use an a+ signal
use it for what?
the point of an index is that there's only one per revolution
yes,agreed,just trying to make something out of nothing
i think this has a very low cpr,like 4 per revolution
not much of an encoder then
it was on a stepper motor in a atm machine for a bank
i can prolly order some different disks for them
you generally can't change disks, because the sensor and disk have to match
just my luck
gonna mount it tommorow and see how many counts per rev it is
thanks for the info
welcome, good luck
if you wanted to read this into a breakout bout just connec the a+ and b+ ?
sometimes you can get by reading just the + signals as single-ended, but it is meant to work with a differential receiver and that's pretty much a necessity if you have a noisy environment like servos
steppers don't need encoders anyway
i know,but i want ferror and index homing
sorry to state the obvious but you can't have that without an index channel
true with these,but could still get ferror couldnt i
yes if you have a way to read the encoders that will keep up with the step rate you want
that's just hal configuration
gonna hook up a+ and b+,spin motor 1 rev and cout the pulses to see what i have
no numbers on the encoder?
no,its a special
cant find any info on the website
but it was giving a reading a min ago when i had it hooked up to the meter
well im off to bed,thanks again
a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
what are my chances of getting into cnc industry without any background like that?
e.g. if i wanted to become a cnc machine operator/programmer?
Robbo google around on cnc and gcode
[06:33:26] <skinnypuppy1334> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-code
just tell 'em you know how to press the green button :P
then bug the shit out of the programmers every day
fenn: just tell 'em you know how to press the green button :P fenn: then bug the shit out of the programmers every day - This is closer to the truth than many realise.
I'm loosing my cushy job as a green button pusher.
company is being sold
I get fired next week - un-employed for the weekend - hired by new company on monday.
but someone figured out I was allready at $1.57 over the top of the wage ceiling for a "production operator".
so I was not offered my "old" position with new company - now I have to be the building setup lead and run around puttion out fires etc.
oh well - at least I did get an offer - not a retirement letter...
rise to your level of incompetence
damn digikey and their 25 qty price breaks
Skullworks-PGA1: Sorry to hear that, but glad at least they offered you a job. It's very rough out there anymore.
Skullworks-PGA1: At least a new postion means a new higher ceiling too.
[08:45:46] <JymmmEMC> http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/dataformats/oogl/#OFF
a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
etla is now known as awallin_
how do I check the Ubuntu version I am running?
is there a file called /etc/issue?
ah, now I found it.
I have 5.10 and I remember some things were not working right
so I need to upgrade to 6.06 probably
* awallin_ is rebooting and installing 6.06lts
re: m5i20, hal_integrator sez m5i20.0.out-08 (P4pin33) is not used and m5i20.0.dac-00.enable (p2pin23) is used.
HOSTM54E.PIN sez IO11 is ENA0 (P2pin23, aka m5i20.0.dac-00-enable).
file m5i20_10.hal sez linksp Xenable => m5i20.0.out-08 (aka P4p33) and sez linksp Xenable => m5i20.0.dac-00-enab;e (aka P2p23).
do both pins get wired to the control signal or just 1?
tomp2, I think you only need to connect both pins if you want the enable signal elsewhere
it's the P2/23 connection that actually enables the PWM output from the 7i33 card
(or whichever number that card is)
thanks, i thought something in firmware might require pwm to be disabled when amp was disabled ( tho it seems you can yell at a dead horse, it just has no effect )
oh - good point. you probably do want to bring the XEnable out to the actual amp ;)
the P2/23 connection enables the PWM (DAC) output on the 7i33 card
the P3/33 connection goes out to the actual servo amp to enable it
oh right, brain fart
yeah, me too (guess they're contagious)
:) like hiccups & sneezin
thanks, makin cables now, got breakouts from the guy in bollingbook, nice DAQstuff
Hawt Damn! http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0634907320070906?src=090607_1644_DOUBLEFEATURE_apple_to_offer_refund&pageNumber=2&sp=true
hey JymmmEMC .... found an interesting console that work for emc... midi stuff http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/iControl-main.html
JymmmEMC: lots of knobs and buttons..... I wonder if there is rt midi support?
JymmmEMC: for most panels, user mode should be quick enough
LawrenceG: I have as much musical talent as a banchi
well with daisy.ngc, you can be a star!
[18:18:32] <JymmmEMC> http://www.m-audio.com/images/en/callouts/big/iControl_callouts.jpg
For $100, you could always rip it apart for the rotary encoders
those encoders are probably 16 or maybe as much as 32 counts (not cycles) per rev
watching video now
USB iface + 5 midi inputs
pid tuning would be cool with all the knobs!
I suspect those things would work out of the box with hal_input
as long as they're HID
that is a lot if i/o in one box.... very cool
few wires to deal with
I dunno what the MIDI endpoints would look like
Just need USB control in emc
JymmmEMC, shut up, will you? :)
there is USB user control, but not on the motion end
read the logs again if you want to see why :)
midi is getting a lot of attention in the software defined radio groups as a control interface
midi or USB are fine for realtime inthe milliseconds range. it's microseconds that make either unusable
LawrenceG: that makes sense. PC radio control is cool, but I still like me kobs and controls on the radio itself.
SWPadnos: ah, gotcha
for those whose browser wont open the qt mov, you can save this to disk http://www.m-audio.com/images/global/videos/iControl.mov
it really expands I/O to the computer.... agreed... its not for stepper i/o, but for human interaction its very good
yep. on a human timescale it's very snappy
imagine each knob tied to a G92 offset!
now that's just plain crazy talk
SWPadnos: Look who's talking =)
tweak to pixture position and hit run
takes one to know one :)
SWPadnos: damn skippy!
argh... Day 4 of single-page tutorial... half way there!
now if we could just re-engrave the button legends
LawrenceG: those lil poem magnets, you can but they that can run thru your laser printer
This is what I'm playing with for my EMC console/pendant project: http://ultimarc.com/ipac1.html
^Fritz: Yeah, I thought those would be cool for a pendant
^Fritz: did you get the USB or PS/2 one?
^Fritz: You should hookup a coin collector to it! LOL $0.25 to CNC a part! LOL
Nah...use a $5 dollar changer for input
To be a fly on the wall when EMC says "Game Over" :)
Make it a $20 bill collector
CNC AT YOUR OWN RISK
Combine it one of those quarter-eating drop-the-claw-and-snatch-stuffed-toy rigs for the part changer
Whatya think, Jymmm? Open one up as a display at a machine tech convention?
Except for the liability factor, it really wouldn't be a bad thing
Vending machine CNC
WalMart has those CNC engravers for pet tags
SWPadnos:Do you think you could make this work with emc?http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.aspx?Image=23-999-044-01.jpg%2c23-999-044-02.jpg%2c23-999-044-03.jpg%2c23-999-044-04.jpg&S7ImageFlag=0&Depa=0&Description=Contour+ShuttlePRO+V.2+-+15+Button+Jog+%26+Shuttle+Multimedia+Control+Surface+with+alloy+Jog+wheel
it should work already
it didnt before when i first started fooling with emc
there may be some quirks that need to be added to the kernel, if it's like the jog/shuttle "non-pro"
they have the jog shuttle now?
that may have been before jepler wrote hal_input
hal_input works with any HID (Human Interface Device) that works wirh Linux
i wish somebody had told me,i got 1 sitting here on the desk
plug it in, load up hal_input, and see what it reports
Neural Interface a la Matrix style!
I don't know if hal_input is in 2.1.7, but it will be in 2.2
JymmmEMC, if you have a USB neural interface, it should work :)
who would know?
SWPadnos: Sorry, mine is straight serial... no polling
lemmee reboot brb
yep - it's in 2.1.x
yep - it's in 2.1.x
yep - it's in 2.1.x
for x > 2
I don't know what the exact command line you'll need is, but if you get HAL going then run `halcmd loaduser hal_input /your/device/node` or similar, there should be a binch of pins exported from hal_user
i have it plugged in,but no movement
you need to load the hal_input driver
and then connect the various controls to things in HAL, like jog-counts or cycle start, etc.
man hal_input for more information
where is the hal driver
hal input driver
I don't know where it lives, but it's available with halcmd
and it's hal_input - one word with an underscore
is this something you add to the ini file
hal_input gives you input bits for buttons, input floats for sliders and that kind of thing, and bit outputs for LEDs
k,now if i can locate it,lol
but it's just like everything else in HAL/EMC2 - it doesn't do anything by default- you have to tell it where you want the controls connected
did you look at the manpage?
what first time ive heard of it
[14:58:20]<SWPadnos>man hal_input for more information
today i mean
the video is impressive. the metaphor of time based sequencing is interesting ( imagines "i'd like flood on thru this bit" , "I'd use tool (voice) #3 thru this section..." )
i have the emc manual
or is this in the show hal
the man page is wuite good - tells you the options you have for specifying the device and what you get when it works
hal_input - control HAL pins with any Linux input device, including USB
loadusr hal_input [-KRAL] inputspec ...
hal_input is an interface between HAL and any Linux input device,
including USB HID devices. For each device named, hal_input creates
pins corresponding to its keys, absolute axes, and LEDs. At a fixed
rate of approximately 10ms, it synchronizes the device and the HAL
The inputspec may be in one of several form
go to a terminal, and type "man hal_input" (without the quotes)
ahhh,terminal,sorry for the confusion
it may be available somewhere in the EMC docs, and/or withthe GUI manpage browser
and we can do all that with hal & pyvcp and no hardware at all ( just gui control panels ) do people want hardware instead?
but I don';t know offhand where or how to get to it thaose ways
it's s lot easier to spin a know without looking at a display than it is to mouse around a virtual knob
man hal_input works here
yes, feely feedback, agreed
aldous huxley, the feelies :)
I think the key there is that you don't need to look to see what you're doing
and a lil arm that slaps you in the face when you've hit the limit.
that's one of the things Mac-o-philes always talk about - the "mile-high menu"
you can't go above the menu, since all pixels up to the top of the screen are part of the active area
SWPadnos: Hey, lil shock thingy as feedback
so you don't have to look too hard to be sure you're in exactly the right place
I wonder if you could alter the waveform enough that it would be distinguisable...
like a pulse
could even use a metalic knob that sends the shock thru your finger tips
the metaphor of a handheld remote allows you to look at thingy-to-be-controlled by looking past thingy-that-is-the-controller. both are in view at once
Not sure about the bothinview part
Well, consider touch typing.... you dont look at the kybd.
true, the handheld allows both in view at once, the keyboard would be difficult to be in view as well as the screen
When I use a NUMPAD for jogging, I never look at it, just the tool I'm trying to align.
Same with driving a car... I don't look at the gas/brake pedals
im not having any luck finding the hal file,
is it on the website like the joypad.hal is
if ( from a terminal ), "man hal_input" doesnt work, then you dont have a new enuf version. you can read about it on http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man1/hal_input.1.html
thanks,this definately doesnt look like plug n play,lol
may abandon ship on this for time being,in the middle of putting in some new drives
and i see it is a python script that creates the pins yourhome/youremcinstall/src/ha/user_comps/hal_input.py you gotthat file??
the shuttle does work very well with mach3,gotta get it going with emc
dunno for sure,prolly not
i can pastebin what i got if you wanna see
is my ini file what u need
what do u need
if you want that capability, you have to have teh files that allow it
configuration is after ability
Martini: you will NOT be able to effectively use hal_input unless you are comfortable hooking up HAL components
EMC lets you control almost anything using almost anything - but the tradeoff is that YOU must decide what controls what, and make the corresponding connections
so, you tell me if you have the file yourhome/youremcinstall/src/ha/user_comps/hal_input.py ( and yes to what jmk just said )
cant find it
Martini: what youwant to do is similar to xement's use of a usb joypad from an xbox.... the similarity is that its a usb device you'd like to use with emc. the work involved is described at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Using_A_Joypad_To_Move_Your_CNC_Machine
so hal_input has the ability to run the shuttle,but there is no shuttle.hal already made?
cool,sorry it took me so long to catch that
hal files are used to configure a machine to the specific owner's wants and needs
we only supply a few samples, there are as many possibilities are there are people
and im not at that point quite yet
its best to start simple
you can add things to your hal file later
alredy have a fully working bp mill
not far from that point :) becuz you're interested :)
putting in some 203v gecko drives today and some new steppers
adding encoders next weekend
err why bother with steppers and encoders
homing to index,and ferror
is there an 'order' to wire colors? i often have a zillion wires to choose from, it'd be different if orange were #1 amd blue striped red were #2
does emc2 support that stuff yet?
no order that I know of - everybody does their own thing
motors already have shafts,and us digital has an encoder to mount direct to motor
or are you running, with a usc?
may get a usc later,wanna do it with 2 paraports first
well, you will end up implementing encoder feedback yourself
though homing to index is nice
gotta be,when i make parts they are usually exspensive
well i gotta get busy,will worry bout the shuttle later
so, are you going to implement ferror for the stepper driver?
thought it would estop if a motor got outta position
tomp2: there is the 25pair cabling "standard"
Martini: with servos yes
was told it would work with steppers also
Anyone used these? http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00942451000P?vName=Tools&keyword=wrench
they do what they go..
and they cost lots(atleast for bacho ones)
anonimasu: how's the ratching? smooth? course?
I dont know about your brand..
bur the ones I used were smooth
ofcourse they go click click but with small increments
smooth action in tight spaces goes a long way
yep the craftsman boxed end ratchets are nice.
Martini: then it probably will :)
I'm still waiting for one with a worm gear, you can hold the wrench still and turn the knob at the other end...
yeah they wouldn't be all that usefull except for that one $%$#%$#%$^ bolt ya know
I jus tgot those wrenches (metric and imperial) - they were on sale for $32.99 a set or thereabouts
I'd buy if that was the price
yeah - one of those flyers with the "get it before noon" section
wonder if they could make an "index only" unit. - something where there is a single index pulse that is very narrow to use just for homing.
SWPadnos: wasn't today/tomorrow was it???
not a complete encoder?
Who are you guys buying small toothed drive belts from?
I cant remember the name of the maker though
mcmaster carr ( depends on what you mean by small )
or mcmaster or MSC
[20:05:27] <Skullworks-PGA1> https://sdp-si.com/eStore/
sdp-si belive that was what I was looking for
thanks again guys, waiting on some geckos and thinking of drive componets.
[20:07:40] <tomp2> http://www.mcmaster.com/
search for 'timimg belt' slide down to 'pitch'
Would 1/2 inch wide be sufficient or ideal for XY on a BP style manual retrofit?
my factory bp uses 1/2 on quill,3/4 on x and y
1/2 would prolly work
1/2 would work with low gearing (3,4,5:1)
less than 3:1 I would go up to 3/4
Sounds good. Thanks for the additional skullworks
Skullworks-PGA1 is now known as Skullworks-PGAB
03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/bitfile.h: fix comment
lets recap - the engraver has been on ebay for about 2 days - 200 people have looked at it. I have 13 people 'watching' it so far (cool) and I have gotten a bunch of emails. the emails are 'could you fix my ep module?', 'I have a 7000 - could I do the same?', 'would you concider selling the dongle separately', 'how did you get videos to work on ebay?'
how did you get the videos to work on ebay?
suprisingly - all you have to do is paste the embeded script youtube gives you.
or link youtube ;)
weird - irssi crashed
it crashed right after you sent some escape sequences to emc-devel
[22:44:38] <JymmmEMC> http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/ROP/ads.aspx?advid=32664&adid=5005110&subid=17550941&type=
03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/bfload.c: modify bfload to understand the difference between 5i20 and 5i22 bitfiles, detect the different types of boards, and invoke the relevant loader functions - the 5i22 function isn't written yet