jepler: I was, yes. But from everything I've read BEOFRE I bought the xylotex board, it's prone to heat issues. So if you're not running at the upper limit, maybe just one fan should do nicely
tomp, what kind of DAQ stuff?
JymmmEMC: you should run the 12v signal, not the 5v, the distance
yeah - between the max232 and the computer. that's what serial lines are for
note that a 40' cable may reduce the max data rate the chips can drive (shouldn't be a problem at 9600 baud though)
thanks cradek, SWPadnos, not what I wanted to hear, but that's what I'll do.
SWPadnos: Mostly 4800 baud, but it might go to 56K
it may not with 40' of cable and a low power transceiver chip - check the specs before you build
SWPadnos: you mean the max232 itself?
yes, there are many flavors of chip that are all called something like MAX232
they add lots of suffixes to them
SWPadnos: What should I be looking for/at (for long hauls)?
(low power, high speed, single supply, +5/+12 supply, triple supply, no external caps needed)
dunno - good drive strength?
you'll have to read datasheets to find this stuff
also full voltage swing
40' of cable isn't a lot, but I think it isn't short enough to ignore completely either
so this is bad? http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/MAX220-MAX249.pdf
voltage swing wise?
I don't really have time to look at the moment
.nz - cool
Hey guys, was wondering if someone cud help me out with a problem
ask away - people will answer if they can help
ok, i am running kernel 2.6.19 on ubuntu6.06, i have compiled rtai3.5 on it and latency results seem fine
then i compiled emc2 from source, but when i tried to launch it, it kept freezing on me
i looked into the ini file
and tried changing the base period around
what CPU speed/type, and what was the original BASE_PERIOD?
it is now at 1000ns and it doesnt freeze anymore, but i get an error:
that's extremely low
have you tried the prebuilt kernel and rtai that we distribute? it's very easy to build them wrong
no need to build your own if using ubuntu 6.06
you do need to build your own if you want kernel 2.6.19 for some reason though (?)
the reason why i rebuilt it is because i need wacom support in the kernel
the kernel version from the live cd doesnt seem to recognise the wacom device even after the warcom driver is installed
using that kernel, though, does emc run on your computer?
yeah kernel2.6.19 can recognise warcom
emc runs fine if i install it straight from the cd
(I'm trying to understand what troubleshooting you've done already)
rtai latency test works
ok so it's your kernel or rtai, not the emc configuration, right?
SWPadnos: I've had immediate lockups when running emc, even though the latency test works, on some unfortunate kernel builds
i dunt quite understand...
this is basic troubleshooting
what shall i do?
if an emc config runs on the distrib kernel, but not yours, yours is bad, right?
narrow down the problem until you find it
so its my kernel problem?
are there tests i can do to figure this out?
I can only guess, I'm trying to explain how you might narrow down the problem space
yes of course
don't change the emc config that works on our kernel. try it on yours.
changing numbers willy-nilly just confuses the issue
btw - what was the error your where getting at 1000ns?
ok here is the error
insmod: error inserting '/usr/realtime/modules/emc2/motmod.ko': -1 Operation not
that's probably because the period is bogus
-1 is a generic error, the real error message is above it in dmesg
ok the default configs on kernel2.6.19 doesnt run, freeze on startup
then changing the configs will not help you troubleshoot
then what should i do?
you have to figure out what is wrong with your kernel
maybe compare the .config settings to ours
there are lots of things that have to be set right
acpi options and memory size spring to mind
i compiled this kernel using the .config from the live cd
did you do `make oldconfig' ?
it was the only way i could get rtai working
did rtai 3.5 even have a patch made for 2.6.19?
yep it was the latest one it had
I don't think I have used this combination
I know 2.6.18 was bad for rtai and not supported
I tried 17 and 19 but don't recall which combinations worked
unfortunately this is a huge pain and very much a shot in the dark
what about CVS magma
shall i try that?
(that's why we distribute a tested setup for folks)
yes 2.6.20.x with magma is a good bet
or whatever the newest it supports is
that means i should use kernel2.6.20x?
are you going to run a machine with this, or just test/simulate?
i am planning to run it
on one machine I am using 18.104.22.168 with a cvs magma checkout
will the .config file from live cd work for 22.214.171.124?
but that checkout was a while ago
not without some changes
but you may be able to start with it to get most of the settings
uh..what other settings shall i change? is it documented somewhere?
it's probably unwanted advice, but in your place I'd reconsider whether I really needed the wacom on the same computer that controls the machinery
there is rtai documentation for building everything, but it is really not very complete or good
is this usb plugin goin to interfere with the controller?
possibly. many memory devices do
(USB memory sticks)
plugging them in while emc is running the machine is bad on some computers
what about emc1? is there anyway i could get the source for it?
of course but it will probably not run any better on your bad kernel
[01:09:56] <cradek> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc/
^ emc1 source
how can i find out which kernels will be good?
I don't know a good answer to that
there may be some reports on the rtai mailing list
or, like I said 126.96.36.199 works for me on one machine
ok thank you!
good luck, hope I helped more than hurt
mayb i should try 188.8.131.52
it's a real pain sometimes
another idea: you could try rebuilding our kernel with whatever changed driver parameter you need
(if the driver in that version worked)
hey sorry i was just researchin on my options
skunkworks: well it runs but it's noisy and doesn't achieve the speed claimed by the seller
the screws and rails are dry and I don't have anything to lubricate them with .. so anything more is postponed until tomorrow.
unless you think I should try canola oil
jepler: what do you think about the quality so far?
skunkworks: I haven't cut anything, or even mounted the dremel yet
so it's too soon to say
if after lubricating the screws and rails it's still so screechy and stall-prone at 50% of the claimed speed, I will fall firmly into the "disappointed" camp
jepler: getting 7.5ips out of 30000 base_thread. Again - nice work.
though I have to admit I doubted the claim of 70ipm even as I was completing the auction...
I am sure it is tweekable..
but for most things even 40ipm is good. Well - if the accelleration is fast enough
I'm still using the default 20 in/s/s acceleration from stepper_inch
the stalls I have been seeing were during cruise, I don't think it's acceleration set too high
really, dont run xylotex w/o at least ONE fan.
bleh.. why am i wasting my time on cnczone
because someone has to educate the unwashed masses
at least now i have a long thorough explanation i can point the unwashed masses to so they will stop bothering me
and tll them to take a bath too
more or less correct? http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37309&page=2
heh - looks kinda familiar :)
i wonder why this question comes up so much lately
like was there some sale at radioshack for stepper with encoders on them or something?
Mariss has mentioned the closed loop stepper thing several times over the last couple of months, because he's made a lot of progress on the new drive
I'm sure that has helped
also, there are people selling cards that make Mach "closed loop"
yeah galil :P
(ie, the DRO becomes "actual" and there's a traveling following error)
well, that works of course
so people talk about closed loop, and they think the steppers will be just like servos once they stick an encoder on the back
and they don't know what they're talking about
hey why does a stepper's torque "corner"?
why is it flat at all?
hi cmorley, did you get your cvs working?
read the whitepaper - it explains that very well
(in short, it's because theory and practice are rarely equal)
that explanation is pretty good. I don't think a motor engineer would agree with all points, but it's close enough for the masses
no i'm here for help. I did do a developers check out using cmorley
diff and patch are your friends :)
cool, then you're most of the way there
it's commiting thats the proplem
could not open lock file `/cvs/emc2/src/hal/classicladder/,classicladder.c,': Permission denied
should that be emc2-trunk/src/hal etc??
are you sure that's in your devel checkout?
did you copy your modified files into the new checkout dir?
maybe you accidentally copied CVS/* too
when you did that, did you use a recursive copy?
or is it cp -R ?
ack, I have to run, thanks for helping SWPadnos
sure, though I need to run as well :)
no used file browser
ok, did you drag your classicladder dir over to the new checkout, or did you select files and drag them?
i'm over my head a little here so bear with me please
right click copy. then paste
* Jymmm hands C_Morley a Picinic Basket
so a stepper's torque curve is flat because of current limiting in the drive. bah
if you selected the CVS folder from your modified source directory, then you overwrote the CVS folder in the new checkout with the anonymous checkout information
CVS keeps information in the CVS/ directory about who did the checkout and what files are in the repository
oh i see . i think i under stand!
let me try again. thanks for help!
fenn: Very nice writeup.
it was a nice braindump session :)
fenn: I think you need to add 'whatsits' to M-W dictionary though.
its actually a planck unit of information
Ah, so it's already there =)
no i'm just yanking your chain
fenn: I was being serious, the word fits in the style of writing; That's usually how I write up white papers.
i hate unitless numbers, i dont believe in them
fenn: Well, I don't usually make up words along the way, but in this case, it fits.
fenn: Anyhow.... nice job.
03cmorley 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/classicladder.c: Removed windows code and options not available for HAL version -easier to understand, maintain
03cmorley 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/classicladder.h: changes for creation of signed hal pins
03cmorley 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/classicladder_gtk.c: changes for creation of seperate windows for variables
03cmorley 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/classicladder_gtk.h: changes for creation of seperate windows for variables
03cmorley 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/config_gtk.c: changes for display of number of signed hal pins
03cmorley 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/edit.c: changes for handling the use of symbols for variables
03cmorley 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/edit_gtk.c: changes for tool tips to describe buttons
03cmorley 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/files.c: changes for auto assignment of symbol names
03cmorley 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/files.h: changes for auto assignment of symbol names
03cmorley 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/module_hal.c: changes for adding signed integer pins
03cmorley 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/symbols_gtk.c: changes for window that toggles show/hide
03cmorley 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/arrays.c: changes for adding signed integer pins
03cmorley 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/files.c: changed auto assignment S32 pin name from HALinS to CLinS
Anyone around, I'm trying to install GCAM and get an error
I'm trying to install GCAM and get an error checking for GTK+ - version >= 2.8.0... no
*** Could not run GTK+ test program, checking why...
*** The test program failed to compile or link. See the file config.log for the
*** exact error that occured. This usually means GTK+ is incorrectly installed.
configure: error: GTK+ 2.8 or higher is required
I don't see GTK + in synaptic
it has to be there
synaptic uses gtk+ itself
my best guess is that you lack the -dev packages
I see gtk engines and gtkhtml
there is a gtk-engines-gtk-qt that is unchecked
it seems to be called libgtk2.0-dev on debian
cradek_ is now known as cradek
cradek: there's no "xwd" on yggdrasil? an xwd of root should fit on a floppy..
do the little eyes follow the mouse?
skunkworks: you can install it on your modern system -- package 'xeyes'
yes they follow the mouse
* jepler runs it just for fun
No 'task bar'?
* skunkworks wonders what happems when you minimize a window
the thing at the upper left in back seems to be the "twm icon menu" and has entries for each window
ok - I get it.
jepler: did they recomend a lubricant for your router?
Yeah, I usually put lube on the rails and screws before shipping, but
I may have forgotten on yours. A light oil like tri-flow, or even
wd-40 works well. As does motor oil. The machine should run smooth
and quiet, let me know if oil does not solve the problem.
That is good - he seems to be responsive :)
stupid question - why is it called emacs?
macs was already taken
heh - but macs was short for machentosh
how ever you spell that.
jepler: I also took pictures of the deluxe tui installer, but I didn't post those
jepler: "now is when you ought to make your filesystems with mkefs:"
skunkworks: "The original EMACS was a set of Editor MACroS for the TECO editor" according to wikipedia
huh, rms's early ideas on what we now call "software licensing" had the same bad ideas people still have today.
Stallman realized the danger of too much customization and de-facto forking and set certain conditions for usage. He later wrote:
"EMACS was distributed on a basis of communal sharing, which means all improvements must be given back to me to be incorporated and distributed."
fenn: nice reply on cnczone.
03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/changelog: note bugs fixed
cradek: i got a few versions of the 7+ cd yggsadril systems, want 'em?
tomp: nope :-)
CDs - I want floppies dammit!
wish i had some of those steeper/screw assy's
"this 4000 disk set has all the tools you need"
hmmm. 4000 of those 8" floppies wouldn't even fill a CD
did those ever get to 1.2M?
th e8" disks
ok - I thought they topped out at 180k or 360k or thereabouts
we had a surplus outlet store that had some boxes of 8 inch disks. I was always going to buy one.
what's a good basic lube for plastic (delrin? nylon?) against drill rod?
delrin shouldn't need much lube - it's meant to be a bearing surface
I don't know if it's delrin...
but even if so, a drop of oil seems like it couldn't hurt
I'm sure there's someone who knows things like "never put WD-40 on deltin - it dissolves"
but I'm not that person ;)
use silicon based iirc
hmmm. here's something you don't see in an IC datasheet every day: "Note 10: Exposing the micro SMD device to direct sunlight will cause misoperation. See Application Hints for additional information."
[15:06:52] <cradek> http://www.amazon.com/Slick-50-One-Lube-Spray/dp/B0002JN2IG
I have a bottle of this stuff and it seems to work well, but I don't know what it is (or where it came from)
I thought that was one of the silicon additives for engine oil
or teflon or something
you might be joking, but I use 10W-30 for all sorts of stuff
no, it's a spray bottle meant for general purpose lubricating
not really joking, but it depends on the application and the expected lifespan
(I even use motor oil for tapping sometimes)
[15:08:45] <SWPadnos> http://www.slick50.com/Product_Pages/Products.html
be to :)
Me too that is.
I had better not search for silicone lubricant at work... those text ads are not what I want on my screen at the office
(thanks for that google)
jepler: maybe? http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/als.aspx
I would think any farm and barn store would have a ton of different lubricants.
auto parts anyway
so - with the new doublefreq - a decently fast computer should approch 100khz step rate.
it would still have to be a pretty fast computer - that needs a 10000 BASE_PERIOD
but 60-80 KHz would be pretty common, I think
~16000 to 12000 BASE_PERIOD
approach sounds better.. ;)
like the price is right - get the closest without going over (or the computer hard locks :) )
or it starts printing "Unexpected realtime delay on task 1"
does RTAPI do that or is it motion (or whichever)?
there's a newish one in rtai_rtapi.c
it is on you tube now - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_OUNLruaVQ
in case you want to show your significant others clergy or such
I wonder if it's a good idea to do that in a fast thread (kprint anything)
rt_task_wait_period() can return RT_TMROVRN
it's rtapi_print_msg()'d at most 10 times per session, total for all threads
it shows up *much* more readily than the motion 'realtime delay' message
sure - it's got a threshold of one period
what does it mean?
If I really screw up - I get both..
err - maybe not. without looking at the code, it seems like it would trip any time the period is exceeded
rather than +0.1 or +0.2x the period
I don't know what it means, except that an error return from rt_task_wait_period is what the rtai kern/latency test calls an "overrun"
someone remind me next week that I want to add some statistical stuff to the RTAI kernel latency test
SWPadnos: I put a reminder in my phone for you.
SWPadnos: with the HAL 'timedelta' component plus halsampler you should be able to gather the information you want and perform userspace analysis on it
(timedelta is a recentish addition on trunk)
* skunkworks was actually just being a smart ass
jepler, that's probably true. I noticed it when you posted a screenshot of the GUI front end for it
skunkworks, bad skunkworks
Good day all, I'm trying to get GCAM installed on my garrage machine I put together last night. This is the error I get, configure: error: GTK GL Extension is required
skinnypuppy1334_, twingy is the autho of gcam, he's in here a lot, you could ask him about it
skinnypuppy1334_: did you try using synaptic ("package manager") to search for the package you need to install?
Twingy, cool I'll be on the lookout
jepler didn't see it in synaptic
I remember GL being in some other package from playing with beryl months ago..
% apt-cache search GTK GL Extension
libgtkglext1-dev - OpenGL Extension to GTK (development files)
that package is in the "universe" repository; you may need to follow these instructions to enable it if you haven't already: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu#head-5bbef89639d9a7d93fe38f6356dc17847d373096
cradek jepler, thanks I'll poke at it and see what I can get acomplished
Seems to have fixed the dependency, "/configure --prefix=/your/installation/path" finished and make; make install was very busy and seems to have installed. How do you launch gcam? I typed gcam in terminal , command not found.
did you literally write "--prefix=/your/installation/path"?
no I used /home/user/gcam
The source files were in /home/user/tmp/gcam2007
that probably installed the executable file in /home/user/gcam/bin; you either have to change the PATH environment variable so that directory is listed, or give a full path when starting it: /home/user/gcam/bin/gcam
I'll hop in the bin folder quick and see
Strange, I see gcam in the bin directory in terminal but still command not found
Terminal in the /home/user/gcam/bin directory
WOO HOO full path at terminal works" /home/user/gcam/bin/gcam" how do I add this into the path? Remembering config.sys
I encourage you to find the answer to that yourself
some promising links come up when I search for 'ubuntu path' on google...
jep, sure thing... thank all you guys again. I'm learning.
cradek: what is the name of that kind of 4-pin connector you were suggesting?
jepler: I don't know that it has a name, but it's found on CB microphones
4-pin XLR, or the screw-on type?
the screw type
I haven't seen any current specs on them, but they look like very nice connetors for small to medium steppers
and inexpensive - $3-$4 per end
this is in the intagrator manual linkpp parport.0.pin-01-in iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
pin 1 in the normal setup of the printer port is an output - correct? I think that may confuse people.
plus linkpp is deprecated
well - yes :)
egad. 18kW servos's