#emc | Logs for 2007-08-19

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[00:00:03] <jmkasunich> lol
[00:00:08] <cradek> ... it should be much easier to pull with the plug out
[00:00:10] <jmkasunich> I'll be right over, thanks
[00:00:12] <cradek> that's all I can think of
[00:00:35] <jmkasunich> I already tried the pull with plug out bit, and it is quite a bit easier to pull
[00:00:51] <jmkasunich> but "quite a bit" isn't quantitative
[00:01:09] <cradek> no but it means it isn't a valve completely stuck or something
[00:01:14] <jmkasunich> right
[00:01:23] <jmkasunich> I know there are no valves stuck
[00:01:32] <jmkasunich> pulled the cover off the valve spring compartment
[00:01:39] <jmkasunich> both valves move, at about the right time
[00:01:44] <robin_sz> * robin_sz is drinking some fine Scotch
[00:02:17] <cradek> did you try starter fluid? if you can get it to fire/kick even once that would be a good implication of the carb/fuel system
[00:02:39] <jmkasunich> no, maybe I should go get some of that and give it a try
[00:02:39] <robin_sz> I presume you have pulled the plug out and watched it spark?
[00:02:46] <jmkasunich> robin_sz: yes
[00:02:51] <robin_sz> 'k
[00:03:08] <cradek> check the shear pin on part 90 whatever it's called
[00:03:18] <cradek> the spark timing will be wrong if the pin is sheared
[00:03:30] <robin_sz> fuel && compression && spark = igntion .. you have all three, it MUST work
[00:04:08] <robin_sz> time to clean that carby out
[00:04:12] <jmkasunich> cradek: that would be a long shot - it was running when I parked it last time, and those things tend to break when you try to mow rocks, not just sitting in the garage
[00:04:25] <cradek> right
[00:04:40] <jmkasunich> I'll go get some starting juice and try that
[00:04:46] <cradek> soon it'll be dark and you can put it off until tomorrow
[00:04:54] <jmkasunich> if it works, it points at carb or fuel quality
[00:05:03] <robin_sz> be sure to get a locla kid with a baseball golve standing by
[00:05:13] <jmkasunich> yep, its working on dark right now, and I haven't had dinner yet
[00:05:13] <cradek> and an entire peanut gallery via irc
[00:05:42] <robin_sz> the kid with the glove should stand about 10 yards away
[00:05:55] <robin_sz> ready to catch the cylinder head :)
[00:06:01] <JymmmEMC> Heh, is the kill switch disabled?
[00:06:07] <jmkasunich> if I use too much fluid?
[00:06:16] <cradek> what would cause the Z axis servo drive to fault on my mill? it only does it at startup time (before homing)
[00:06:23] <cradek> if I turn it off and on a few times, it'll be fine
[00:06:39] <cradek> then, once it's going it works great
[00:06:44] <robin_sz> cradek: soundls like gremlins
[00:06:49] <jmkasunich> JymmmEMC: that is actually an issue, because the bicycle style cable to the kill switch is fscked
[00:07:00] <cradek> kill switch kills spark, which you tested
[00:07:04] <jmkasunich> but thats not the issue here, I've jury rigged it, and confirmed spark
[00:07:21] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: ok, just staitng the obvious =) KISS
[00:07:21] <robin_sz> * robin_sz strokes his lovely laptop
[00:07:32] <robin_sz> its even nicer now its triple-boot :)
[00:07:57] <robin_sz> Debian, XP and vista
[00:08:07] <jmkasunich> cradek: what does "fault" mean on that drive?
[00:08:10] <JymmmEMC> robin_sz: MS-dos 6.21, OS/2 Warp, and WFW 3.11 ?
[00:08:14] <jmkasunich> some little red light comes on?
[00:08:23] <cradek> jmkasunich: yeah
[00:08:37] <jmkasunich> no other info though, right?
[00:08:39] <cradek> and the front panel blinks ERROR 4000 (drive fault)
[00:08:46] <cradek> nope of course not
[00:09:01] <jmkasunich> that makes it hard
[00:09:22] <JymmmEMC> no error code in docs?
[00:09:25] <jmkasunich> could be overcurrent, overtemp, overvoltage, or whatever else they decided to check for
[00:09:39] <jmkasunich> "they" = drive maker, probably not the same as control maker
[00:09:43] <cradek> right
[00:09:59] <jmkasunich> I gotta run if I'm gonna get that fluid before the stores close (and I'm hungry)
[00:09:58] <jmkasunich> biab
[00:10:01] <cradek> ok good luck
[00:10:15] <robin_sz> error 4000 : "Insufficient cashflow in service department, call engineer"
[00:10:17] <JymmmEMC> cradek: if you swap x and z does it fillow one or the other?
[00:15:21] <SWPadnos> I'm betting the answer to that question is yes
[00:15:27] <SWPadnos> it probably does follow one or the other
[00:16:34] <JymmmEMC> heh
[00:17:36] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: how ya doin?
[00:17:43] <SWPadnos> ok, still swamped
[00:17:54] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Got Gator?
[00:18:09] <SWPadnos> I did finally manage to get most of my old PCB libraried updated today, so that's good
[00:18:11] <SWPadnos> no
[00:18:14] <SWPadnos> libraries
[00:18:28] <JymmmEMC> swap with no gator, for sure of it all
[00:18:31] <JymmmEMC> swamp
[00:18:44] <JymmmEMC> I mucked up that joke
[00:18:50] <tomp> jmkasunich: i had a lawnmower engine go bad, ripped engine off, added dc elec motor and a car battery. charge it with car battery. done
[00:18:53] <SWPadnos> yep, totally
[00:19:51] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: That's okey, trying to work on a contingency plan if I get a 2nd strike.... plant steroids in the locker room1
[00:20:01] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:31:33] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
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[01:46:48] <jmkasunich> got the starting fluid, will try that in the morning
[01:47:16] <jmkasunich> also ID'ed the motor - Tecumseh TVS120
[01:56:58] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[01:57:01] <jmkasunich> man, a-l-p-h-a2 has worse troubles than I do
[02:07:06] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[02:13:19] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[02:27:32] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[02:30:32] <jlmjvm> swpadnos:i got an ac servo motor question
[02:31:45] <jlmjvm> jmkasunich: i have an ac motor question
[02:32:11] <SWPadnos> heh - I was going to suggest that jmkasunich may be the better person to ask :)
[02:32:16] <SWPadnos> in fact, I know he is
[02:32:50] <jlmjvm> very simple actually
[02:33:12] <jlmjvm> what would be a good size for a bridgeport,200w
[02:33:34] <SWPadnos> 200-400W should be fine for a BP servo
[02:33:45] <SWPadnos> I think :)
[02:34:31] <jlmjvm> im looking at automation direct,can get a drive and a motor for the price of a dc servo
[02:34:35] <SWPadnos> my DC servos at 80% speed/full torque are 800W, they peak at ~6 KW
[02:34:43] <jlmjvm> and it includes the encoder also
[02:35:06] <jlmjvm> what kind you got
[02:35:06] <SWPadnos> most of the time, they'd be at ~5-10% speed, and much less than full torque
[02:35:32] <SWPadnos> Baldor MTE4070-BLBCE, IIRC
[02:36:00] <jlmjvm> how many in lb?
[02:36:02] <jmkasunich> hi
[02:36:09] <SWPadnos> you should probably look at the torque output of the AC servos you're looking at
[02:36:22] <SWPadnos> mine are 27 in-lb. the newer models are 29 in-lb
[02:36:27] <SWPadnos> (continuous - ~115 peak)
[02:36:42] <SWPadnos> hi
[02:37:00] <jmkasunich> listen to SWPadnos, I don't know nuttin about AC servos
[02:37:05] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:37:07] <jlmjvm> was looking at some 40 in lb,they were 750.00 apiece with no encoder
[02:37:18] <jlmjvm> sure you do
[02:37:18] <jmkasunich> I do AC induction motors mostly, normal industrial stuff, not servo
[02:37:24] <jlmjvm> k
[02:37:28] <SWPadnos> 40 in-lb would be enough to drive the knee, roughly
[02:37:37] <SWPadnos> (maybe 50 in-lb for that, but it's close)
[02:37:39] <jlmjvm> oh really
[02:38:03] <SWPadnos> 40 in-lb is fine for X+Y also, you'll get excellent accel
[02:38:11] <jlmjvm> i heard the ac brushless stuff was really good
[02:38:29] <jmkasunich> I believe it is
[02:38:36] <SWPadnos> yep. my very limited experience suggests that, and I know Jon Elson and Petev both like them
[02:38:37] <jmkasunich> its also usually quite expensive
[02:39:00] <SWPadnos> not much more than DC servos, if you're buying new
[02:39:06] <jlmjvm> like i said i can get an ac drive motor and encider for the price of the dc servo
[02:39:10] <jmkasunich> motor-to-drive matching is much more important than with DC as well
[02:39:15] <SWPadnos> but it's easier to get DC servos used, and the drives are a lot less ...
[02:39:19] <SWPadnos> yep
[02:39:50] <SWPadnos> the Automation Direct AC servos look like a good deal
[02:40:09] <SWPadnos> but then again, Yaskawas aren't that much more
[02:40:37] <jlmjvm> taht would be a killer bridgeport
[02:40:41] <jlmjvm> that
[02:40:53] <SWPadnos> that's what they use on modern BP-sized CNCs
[02:41:08] <jlmjvm> would that be closed loop?
[02:41:11] <SWPadnos> and some of the newer retrofits also use them
[02:41:14] <SWPadnos> of course
[02:41:27] <jlmjvm> excellent
[02:41:57] <SWPadnos> the drive absolutely must be closed loop on an AC servo, or it has no idea how to move the motor (AFAIK)
[02:43:04] <jlmjvm> price diff between 200w and 400w is 80 bucks
[02:43:19] <SWPadnos> have you noticed the cost of the drive yet? :)
[02:43:29] <jlmjvm> its the same 479
[02:43:35] <SWPadnos> it's a lot more than a Gecko
[02:43:37] <SWPadnos> yep
[02:43:52] <jmkasunich> general rule: AC motors are cheaper than DC motors, but AC drives are more expensive than DC drives
[02:44:05] <SWPadnos> that's where the AD stuff ends up costing less than Yaskawa - Yask is ~750 for the drive
[02:44:51] <jlmjvm> but if you were gonna be making close tolerence parts for a living it would have to be good
[02:45:09] <SWPadnos> the Yaskawa motors I priced have absolute encoders (that can be battery backed, so you only need to home once every 5-10 years)
[02:45:24] <SWPadnos> the resolution is 64k counts per rev
[02:45:26] <jlmjvm> like an okuma
[02:45:37] <SWPadnos> those encoders add $500 or so to the cost of the motor :)
[02:45:40] <jlmjvm> never home
[02:46:27] <jlmjvm> 64k counts,thats almost as close as my part tolerence,lol
[02:46:30] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:47:14] <SWPadnos> if I'd stick one of those on my machine, with the belts and screw I have, I'd get 655360 counts/inch :)
[02:48:14] <jlmjvm> mine would be 320000 counts/inch
[02:48:53] <SWPadnos> there's the 2:1 belt drive coming into play
[02:51:03] <jlmjvm_> im 1 to 1
[02:52:13] <jlmjvm_> gonna start watching ebay closer for some ac stuff
[02:53:01] <SWPadnos> the Yaskawa motors are the Sigma II line, SGMAH-** I think
[02:53:28] <SWPadnos> new drives are SGDH-*, the last rev back is SGDA-*
[02:53:57] <SWPadnos> I think the last rev of the motors (the ones that go with the SGDA) were SGMP, but I'm not sure
[02:56:51] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[02:56:59] <jlmjvm_> the ad setup would be 50000 counts/inch
[03:00:45] <SWPadnos> hmmm. looking at that just made me think of something
[03:01:15] <SWPadnos> the person who wanted an amp enable to turn on "just before" an axis starts moving - that would also be desirable for unclamping brakes
[03:01:57] <jlmjvm_> makes sense
[03:02:13] <SWPadnos> the only thing that EMC presently expects to have a brake is the spindle, but that's not coordinated (external ladder/other logic can delay the spindle start command to allow for brake release)
[03:03:19] <SWPadnos> anyway - back to work for me. good luck AC servo hunting
[03:04:13] <jlmjvm_> thanks
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[04:05:34] <toast> toast is now known as toastydeath
[04:51:35] <fenn> dum dee dum
[04:57:04] <Jymmm> happy trails to you
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[09:07:46] <alex_joni> alex_joni has kicked a-l-p-h-a from #emc
[09:31:33] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[10:42:33] <CIA-24> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/.cvsignore: silence CVS
[10:44:05] <CIA-24> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/gui/.cvsignore: silence CVS
[10:44:38] <CIA-24> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/.cvsignore: silence CVS
[10:52:05] <CIA-24> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/ (command.c control.c emcmotcfg.h mot_priv.h motion.c motion.h): adding ability to check inputs from g-code. Analog and special wait-types not implemented yet.
[10:52:06] <CIA-24> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/nml_intf/ (canon.hh emc.cc emc.hh emc_nml.hh emcglb.h): adding ability to check inputs from g-code. Analog and special wait-types not implemented yet.
[10:52:10] <CIA-24> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/ (10 files): adding ability to check inputs from g-code. Analog and special wait-types not implemented yet.
[10:52:09] <CIA-24> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/sai/saicanon.cc: adding ability to check inputs from g-code. Analog and special wait-types not implemented yet.
[10:52:11] <CIA-24> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/task/ (emccanon.cc emctaskmain.cc taskintf.cc): adding ability to check inputs from g-code. Analog and special wait-types not implemented yet.
[10:53:54] <CIA-24> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/main.lyx: Document M66-M68: ability to check inputs from g-code.
[11:36:34] <fenn> alex_joni: http://fenn.dyndns.org/sketches/emc-splash/fanuc-illust.png
[11:39:14] <alex_joni> nice
[11:39:18] <alex_joni> bbl.. lunch
[12:43:20] <alex_joni> back
[12:44:16] <alex_joni> fenn: did you draw it?
[12:57:20] <alex_joni> fenn: http://www.militantplatypus.com/blog/archives/3790
[13:00:40] <fenn> yeah just inkscape
[13:01:38] <alex_joni> fenn: then it's ok :)
[13:01:46] <alex_joni> I had a tiny bit of issues with some perspectives
[13:01:55] <alex_joni> but if it's artistic it's just fine ;)
[13:03:01] <fenn> i traced it from a photo
[13:03:22] <fenn> the perspective is pretty exact
[13:04:01] <fenn> http://fanucrobotics.com/fanuc_portal/images/wp1_irs/Wallpaper1_1024x768.jpg
[13:04:45] <alex_joni> it is like this.. but I think some parts got lost in the trace
[13:05:13] <fenn> yeah i forgot some stuff
[13:06:14] <alex_joni> might be me ..
[13:08:58] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
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[13:14:14] <alex_joni> too bad kicking doesn't help :P
[13:14:37] <fenn> i cant get the silhouette to go the other way
[13:15:08] <alex_joni> leave it be
[13:16:08] <alex_joni> oh, you mean the spinning one?
[13:17:22] <alex_joni> just look at the shadow at the bottom
[13:21:51] <fenn> i dont know which way is clockwise either
[13:25:33] <fenn> i can get it to change directions if i look at it out of the corner of my eye, but when i look directly at it, always the same direction
[13:55:27] <CIA-24> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/share/axis/tcl/axis.tcl: make radiobuttons on "touch off coordinate system" menu work
[14:08:57] <jepler> http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap070819.html
[14:10:04] <Rugludallur> jepler: nice sonic boom,
[14:10:31] <Rugludallur> jepler: I bet the photographer is deaf after that :)
[14:12:51] <Rugludallur> mounted a wood router into my table yesterday, made some wood chips for a change :) -> http://imagebin.org/10005
[14:20:33] <tomp> jepler: did you see http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap070717.html
[14:21:22] <alex_joni> that's an old one :)
[14:22:01] <alex_joni> (c) 1995
[14:22:09] <tomp> i still dont >believe< they're the same color
[14:23:30] <tomp> btw, alex, nice stuff on making a communications porthole between data and gcode, thanks
[14:25:53] <alex_joni> tomp: it's not 100% done
[14:26:03] <alex_joni> but it's working ;)
[14:26:38] <alex_joni> http://web.mit.edu/persci/gaz/demos/snake.html
[14:27:17] <tomp> nice
[14:28:07] <alex_joni> http://web.mit.edu/persci/gaz/demos/white.html
[14:32:59] <alex_joni> bbl.. nice weather & tennis can't wait :P
[14:34:18] <jepler> alex_joni: aaaaargh my ears
[14:40:51] <Guest272> hello
[14:41:58] <Rugludallur> hello
[14:42:17] <Guest272> do you have any experience with the sieg series mills?
[14:44:54] <Rugludallur> I don't, perhaps someone else here does
[14:49:00] <Guest272> ok
[14:49:30] <Guest272> how do you think EMC compares with commercial products?
[14:50:02] <skunkworks> commertial as in mach?
[14:50:09] <skunkworks> commercial
[14:50:23] <Guest272> yeah
[14:50:32] <skunkworks> heh
[14:50:56] <Guest272> hi skunkworks
[14:51:14] <skunkworks> bad place to ask.. :) I honestly have no experience with mach. I can tell you that emc is a true closed loop controller.
[14:51:15] <skunkworks> Hi
[14:51:39] <Guest272> I see
[14:51:56] <Guest272> skunk, do you have any experience with the sieg mills?
[14:52:34] <skunkworks> Sorry - no. These are table top mills - correct?
[14:53:30] <skunkworks> oops
[14:53:49] <Guest272> yes
[14:54:34] <skunkworks> If you look on cnczone - I think there is a lot of info on them.
[14:54:44] <skunkworks> do you have one or looking at one
[14:55:45] <Guest272> I'm looking at one
[14:56:01] <jtr> I think I saw some comments about them here a couple of days ago - looking now at the logs.
[14:56:10] <Guest272> I'm trying to decide between the X2 or X3
[14:56:29] <Guest272> X3 weighs more than twice, but also costs more than twice the x2
[14:57:06] <skunkworks> I don't think I have heard anyone say "I wish I would have gotten a smaller mill..." :)
[14:57:55] <Guest272> but how am I going to load a 360 lbs mill on and off a truck is another question
[14:58:08] <skunkworks> heh
[14:58:54] <skunkworks> wow - 5 inches of rain here - and it is still raining
[14:59:19] <jlmjvm_> guest 272:i have experience with mach
[15:00:46] <jlmjvm_> emc is what you wanna go with
[15:01:16] <Guest272> ok
[15:01:28] <Guest272> I wish it rained more here
[15:01:33] <Guest272> I'm getting tired of all the sun
[15:01:41] <Guest272> I like EMC mostly because it's free :)
[15:01:52] <jlmjvm_> we are having a drought here
[15:02:04] <skunkworks> That is how I got into emc :)
[15:02:43] <skunkworks> turbocnc->emc(very short time)->emc2
[15:02:59] <jlmjvm_> you really cant appreciate how good emc is till you play with mach for awhile
[15:03:14] <jtr> Guest272: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emcdevel/2007-08-14.txt for some comparison of the X1 - X2
[15:03:57] <jtr> Don't recall if the X3 was mentioned
[15:04:11] <Guest272> thanks
[15:06:03] <jlmjvm_> does Steve Stallings ever come in here
[15:07:04] <jlmjvm_> skunkworks:where r u located
[15:07:18] <skunkworks> WI
[15:07:23] <skunkworks> near lacrosse
[15:07:39] <jlmjvm_> huntsville,al
[15:07:49] <jtr> jlmjvm_: yes - currently shown as steves_logging, so he's probably away.
[15:07:50] <skunkworks> a bit warmer I bet
[15:08:07] <jlmjvm_> no rain in weeks
[15:08:39] <skunkworks> My parents had friends in huntsville.. An artist. can't remember her name though.
[15:09:04] <jlmjvm_> will be in fort walton fl mon thru thur for the next few months
[15:09:07] <jlmjvm_> cool
[15:09:32] <skunkworks> biab
[15:09:50] <jlmjvm_> k
[15:11:02] <jlmjvm_> jtr: thanks
[15:12:19] <jtr> welcome - hope it was helpful.
[15:16:07] <jlmjvm_> when is he normally here
[15:23:07] <feoc> ello
[15:24:39] <Guest272> what do you guys think of this:
[15:24:41] <Guest272> http://cgi.ebay.com/DYNA-MYTE-2400-CNC-VERTICAL-BENCH-TOP-MILLING-MACHINE_W0QQitemZ130145073158QQihZ003QQcategoryZ12584QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[15:25:03] <tomp> Guest272: re the x2 x3, look at http://www.industrialhobbies.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=IH&Product_Code=SQR_Mill&Cat a bit larger travel ( questionable due to still skinny saddle way width meaning huge overhang )
[15:27:12] <Guest272> yes but $2000 is over my budget for sure
[15:27:21] <Guest272> just for the mill
[15:27:30] <Guest272> and then another $1000 at least to convert to cnc
[15:32:47] <Guest272> what does "positional accuracy" mean?
[15:33:01] <Guest272> if it's what I think it means
[15:33:03] <Guest272> Position Accuracy: 0.012 in/total (0.03 mm/total)
[15:33:11] <Guest272> that's not good is it?
[15:34:26] <jlmjvm_> you would be better off buying a used cnc bridgeport
[15:35:58] <Guest272> than that ebay machine?
[15:36:09] <Guest272> a bridgeport is what, 15,000 lbs?
[15:36:23] <SWPadnos> 2000-4000 for the manual/CNC series 1
[15:36:28] <Guest272> that ebay thing is only 650 lbs
[15:36:36] <SWPadnos> I think ~8000 for the CNC series 2, but that could be less
[15:51:17] <jlmjvm_> you can make real world parts on the bridgeport
[15:51:45] <jlmjvm_> swpadnos:good morning
[15:52:18] <SWPadnos> morning
[15:52:48] <Guest272> morning
[15:53:02] <Guest272> well I dont even have a garage, so I bridgeport is out of the question
[15:53:09] <Guest272> I think I'm going to go with a X2
[15:53:20] <jlmjvm_> you would need a garage
[15:53:40] <jlmjvm_> what about 1 of those rong fu mills
[15:53:48] <Guest272> too heavy, too expensive
[15:53:53] <Guest272> $1500 plus freight
[15:54:05] <skunkworks_> arn't the rong fu mills round column?
[15:54:12] <skunkworks_> that would not be a good cnc convert.
[15:54:23] <jlmjvm_> never mind,they are 2k also
[15:54:39] <Guest272> RF45 is square column
[15:54:57] <Guest272> X2 is only $450, so the price is right
[15:55:13] <jlmjvm_> what r u gonna do with it
[15:55:13] <Guest272> but I won't be doing any big parts at all
[15:55:26] <Guest272> small parts
[15:55:26] <Guest272> hobby
[15:56:38] <jlmjvm_> who was showing the plastic mill the other day for 450.00?
[15:56:40] <feoc> what types of capacitors generally tend to degrade?
[15:56:50] <Guest272> plastic mill?
[15:56:52] <skunkworks_> jepler
[15:56:53] <feoc> coz my old servomate wont hold its settings
[15:57:40] <skunkworks_> http://cgi.ebay.com/ZENBOT-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-mill-PCBs-engraving_W0QQitemZ190141490742QQihZ009QQcategoryZ57122QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[15:57:57] <Guest272> haha
[15:58:07] <Guest272> I'll take the x2 over that
[16:00:34] <skunkworks_> Guest345: this is a small engraver runing emc2+axis. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKz81fY1OjY
[16:00:52] <skunkworks_> you get a glimse of the axis interface.
[16:01:00] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ loves it
[16:02:39] <Rugludallur> nice
[16:02:46] <skunkworks_> sorry I ment
[16:02:51] <skunkworks_> Guest272
[16:18:05] <Guest272> wow that's cool
[16:19:34] <jlmjvm_> did you see the trunion table
[16:20:48] <Guest272> ?
[16:23:49] <jlmjvm_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0-tXDEvAqg&mode=related&search=
[16:24:13] <jlmjvm_> its a 4th 5th axis attachment
[16:24:28] <jlmjvm_> bbl
[16:28:01] <skunkworks_> That I similar on how I want to build 4,5 axis. Very cool
[16:48:46] <skunkworks_> wow - 4 people died so far around here because of the flooding. Now a train has derailed
[16:51:27] <feoc> around where?
[16:53:58] <skunkworks_> I am in western WI
[16:54:14] <skunkworks_> the deaths where in winona mn county
[16:54:32] <skunkworks_> the train derailed in vernon county (south of us)
[16:54:47] <skunkworks_> telling everyone not to travel
[16:57:10] <skunkworks_> http://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2007/08/19/newsupdate/04weather.txt
[16:58:38] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ is in lacrosse county at the moment (work)
[17:00:07] <jlmjvm_> jlmjvm is back
[17:15:24] <feoc> anyone tryed running the pico PWM servo amps from a mesa board?
[17:15:52] <Skullworks-PGA1> Jon says thats not a good idea
[17:16:10] <feoc> jon elson?
[17:16:17] <Skullworks-PGA1> has to do with how the drives power up
[17:16:23] <Skullworks-PGA1> yep
[17:16:24] <feoc> oh right
[17:16:33] <feoc> fair enough ill get a pico pwm controller
[17:17:06] <Skullworks-PGA1> I was asking about using a single amp to drive my spindle...
[17:17:44] <feoc> ah right
[17:18:07] <feoc> my next thing is that my servo drive takes an 80v AC input then converts it to DC in the drive
[17:18:14] <feoc> i need to give the pico drive the 80 as DC
[17:19:49] <Skullworks-PGA1> are your servos 90V? - you might just be able to put a diode bridge and a fat cap inline - but the voltage will go up...
[17:20:57] <feoc> max terminal voltage 120v
[17:22:26] <Skullworks-PGA1> 80VAC should yield 113.12VDC out
[17:24:12] <feoc> the old servo drive says its output goes to 150v
[17:25:24] <feoc> depends if its worth getting the old servo drive looked at and repaired
[17:32:52] <Skullworks-PGA1> spares for those might be getting sparse
[17:39:07] <feoc> depends whats up with it
[17:39:16] <feoc> it runs its just that its not tuning right
[17:39:25] <feoc> keeps drifting about
[17:43:09] <feoc> i wonder if it could just be old capacitors causing it
[17:45:31] <JymmmEMC> Got Scope?
[17:46:51] <feoc> no
[17:47:22] <JymmmEMC> feoc: where you at?
[17:47:41] <feoc> location?
[17:47:58] <feoc> leistershire, uk
[17:48:37] <JymmmEMC> Yes, that would be the normal resonse =)
[17:48:55] <feoc> :)
[17:49:33] <JymmmEMC> Well, in a pinch... Do you have a store that sells scopes with a liberal return policy?
[17:49:43] <feoc> doubt it
[17:49:54] <feoc> but i could get one if its needed
[17:50:00] <feoc> be usefull to have anyway
[17:51:50] <feoc> what will i need to scope for ?
[17:52:58] <JymmmEMC> you said you thought it might be the caps didn't you
[17:55:10] <feoc> just a guess
[17:55:20] <feoc> in no electronics expert but the thing is 20 yrs old
[17:55:35] <feoc> and iv been told that they can degrade after 10 causing simlilar probs
[17:55:46] <JymmmEMC> caps bulging, ant light beige goo on them?
[17:55:51] <JymmmEMC> s/ant/any/
[17:57:02] <feoc> not that i can tell
[17:59:58] <Skullworks-PGA1> I need an AOL sounding MP3 sound bite that says: "You've got... SPAM"
[18:01:27] <Skullworks-PGA1> feoc : might be those trim resistors haveloosened up too
[18:01:52] <Skullworks-PGA1> so your setting is not consistant
[18:02:08] <Skullworks-PGA1> had that happen on our laser system
[18:02:48] <JymmmEMC> or has dirt in them
[18:03:20] <Skullworks-PGA1> circles would start deforming into elispses - I would retune and soon the (minutes) the distortion would return but at a different angle
[18:04:40] <feoc> yeah thats like what happens
[18:04:43] <JymmmEMC> hit em with contact cleaner and see if that helps
[18:04:51] <feoc> you tune teh motors and they work
[18:04:56] <feoc> then they drift off tune
[18:05:17] <JymmmEMC> unpowered =)
[18:05:40] <feoc> but its doing it on all the axis
[18:05:45] <feoc> some worse than others
[18:05:53] <JymmmEMC> lots of dirt in the area?
[18:06:01] <feoc> not really no
[18:09:13] <feoc> tbh i wonder if im just better off buying some pico's and be done with it
[18:09:25] <feoc> least there new and have more support with em
[18:13:29] <feoc> right gotta dash
[18:13:30] <feoc> cyas later
[18:13:43] <feoc> thanks for help
[19:15:04] <alex_joni> jepler: what do you mean?
[19:16:21] <jepler> alex_joni: about what?
[19:16:55] <alex_joni> 17:30 #emc: < jepler> alex_joni: aaaaargh my ears
[19:17:29] <jepler> alex_joni: there was sound in some of those flash "optical illusion" pages you linked
[19:18:29] <alex_joni> oh, I had it switched off.. sorry :P
[19:19:49] <skunkworks_> I wonder how cradek's new toy is doing?
[19:19:58] <skunkworks_> -?
[19:20:24] <alex_joni> bet it's keeping him busy
[19:21:10] <skunkworks_> heh :)
[19:24:35] <lerman> alex_joni: did your question get answered?
[19:25:40] <lerman> alex_joni: said: lerman: can you please read back on this discussion wit\
[19:25:43] <lerman> h fenn, and let us know what you think?
[19:26:42] <alex_joni> lerman: yeah, thanks
[19:26:56] <alex_joni> I figured out how to make the interp wait on a command before interpreting further
[19:27:17] <alex_joni> I added reading some inputs from g-code
[19:27:23] <lerman> I looked at the code for probing for that.
[19:27:39] <alex_joni> and now thanks to your if-branching users can really do nice things
[19:27:57] <lerman> If I had my druthers, I'd make it so that parameters can be read and written by HAL.
[19:28:30] <skunkworks_> alex_joni: that sounds really cool. nice
[19:28:46] <lerman> Also, I'd make it so that all tool table entries, etc, could be read/written by gcode.
[19:29:11] <lerman> That way, you could write code to measure a tool length and put it into the tool table.
[19:30:12] <jepler> the interp should never be changed to directly use or refer to HAL
[19:30:24] <jepler> everything the interp does should be through canon calls
[19:30:27] <lerman> Because....
[19:30:47] <toastydeath> has anyone considered making the emc interface closer to what other commerical controls do
[19:30:58] <jepler> so that it continues to be possible to embed the interpreter in more than just task
[19:31:14] <jepler> e.g., in sai, in axis
[19:31:37] <tomp> any examples of halstreamer usage? tried wiki and halstream hal_stream hal-stream yield zippo (toasty: make skins for emc ;)
[19:31:58] <lerman> Well, there are things that axis can't 'simulate' -- e.g. probing.
[19:32:31] <Skullworks-PGA1> lerman: Also, I'd make it so that all tool table entries, etc, could be read/written by gcode. - G10 L1 etc.
[19:33:01] <lerman> Didn't I say that?
[19:33:07] <Skullworks-PGA1> spec exists - just needs to be incorporated
[19:33:15] <Skullworks-PGA1> to write
[19:33:57] <lerman> The easy way would be to make it so that tool table entries also appeared as parameters. Then they could just be read/written.
[19:34:05] <Skullworks-PGA1> to read can't you just pull up the #5xxx for the tool?
[19:34:07] <jepler> lerman: no, it can't give the same results as actually probing a physical object, but that's not the point
[19:34:39] <jepler> if the interpreter calls hal_new_pin(), then it can't be embedded in axis since it'll be trying to create a pin that was already created by task
[19:34:39] <Skullworks-PGA1> errr -my bad thats not in the #5xxx area
[19:35:00] <Skullworks-PGA1> yet
[19:35:09] <lerman> Extensions to let hal see parameters would be of the same nature as probing.
[19:35:49] <lerman> I wouldn't want the interpret to call hal_new_pin. I'd want hal to be able to set and get parameters.
[19:35:51] <Skullworks-PGA1> Skullworks-PGA1 is now known as Skullworks-PGAB
[19:36:20] <jepler> lerman: so are we agreeing or disagreeing?
[19:36:27] <lerman> I'm not sure?
[19:36:47] <tomp> probing is live interaction with dimensions.... similar might be live interaction with force feedback pressure, spindle current or workpiece temperature
[19:36:49] <jepler> tomp: some of the testsuite items use halstreamer
[19:37:05] <jepler> e.g., in the source tree look in tests/abs.0
[19:37:05] <lerman> What do you think of the idea of hal, axis, etc, being able to set/get parameters?
[19:37:22] <tomp> thanks
[19:38:11] <lerman> (actually -- read all parameters, set a subset of the parameters)
[19:38:27] <jepler> lerman: what is your goal?
[19:39:05] <alex_joni> tomp: you can do that already
[19:39:12] <lerman> If axis could read parameter, it would facilitate debugging.
[19:39:30] <jepler> lerman: To read a value from the outside world into gcode, I believe that "get input" gcodes are most appropriate. For instance, if you envision having parameters be modified asynchronously, you have trouble with interpret time vs execute time; but that's all clear with a "get input" gcode
[19:39:31] <alex_joni> link force feedback to one of the analog inputs, and then use M68
[19:39:39] <tomp> alex_joni: read analog inside gcode? i thought that was your new stuff
[19:39:48] <alex_joni> tomp: yeah, the new stuff
[19:39:58] <alex_joni> not quite fully done yet, but it'll be there
[19:39:59] <tomp> way cool
[19:40:09] <alex_joni> lerman: I agree that parameters should maybe go to the GUI
[19:40:16] <alex_joni> but only through NML
[19:40:19] <lerman> A subset of the parameters could be settable by hal and would be read synchronously.
[19:40:26] <alex_joni> that would also eas the remote GUI issues
[19:40:32] <tomp> cnc polishing ( rub rub rub with 400 stone )
[19:41:11] <jepler> lerman: so say that #6000 is a "HAL variable". My program reads: G0 X0 Y0 Z0 / G1 X1 F1 / G1 Y#6000
[19:41:16] <alex_joni> lerman: if you want to set parameters simply use one of M6x, and then use the return value to put inside one of the parameters
[19:41:20] <jepler> lerman: at what time is the value of #6000 taken?
[19:41:43] <alex_joni> jepler: probably at execution time, which means you need to stop interpreting again
[19:41:50] <jepler> IMO it has to be after the machine is at <1,0,0> -- that is what I mean when I talk about asynchronus vs synchronus
[19:42:03] <lerman> Reading HAL variables would be synchrounous. So the pipeline would be emptied prior to the read.
[19:42:12] <jepler> but I have a *feeling* that the implementation becomes more difficult when any line can be like this, not just one with a "read input" code
[19:42:27] <alex_joni> it
[19:42:28] <Skullworks-PGAB> look ahead issues
[19:42:37] <alex_joni> it's not really difficult, but you won't have look ahead
[19:42:47] <alex_joni> it will interpret / execute line by line
[19:42:50] <Skullworks-PGAB> exactly
[19:43:03] <lerman> Only those lines that have HAL parameters.
[19:43:12] <alex_joni> which basicly renders blending useless
[19:43:20] <alex_joni> lerman: yes, lines with HAL parameters
[19:45:13] <lerman> alex_joni: re: M6x suggestion. You could do that, but gack -- it sure is ugly.
[19:49:07] <jepler> bbl
[19:52:33] <alex_joni> lerman: why is it ugly?
[19:53:00] <alex_joni> setting an output works the same way
[19:53:36] <alex_joni> you'd still have to tie #6000 to a certain hal input
[19:53:55] <lerman> Maybe I'm wrong -- can you give an example setting parameter #6000 to an input using M6x?
[19:54:05] <alex_joni> yes
[19:54:13] <lerman> Tying the input would be done as part of setup.
[19:54:16] <alex_joni> M68 P1
[19:54:27] <lerman> What does that do?
[19:54:28] <alex_joni> #6000 = #5399
[19:54:56] <alex_joni> it reads the analog input #2 (from motion.input-analog-01) and stores the result into #5399
[19:55:39] <lerman> is #5399 hard wired to M68 ?
[19:55:48] <alex_joni> M67 does the same for digital inputs (motion.digital-in-xx)
[19:55:53] <lerman> And P1 specifies analog input #2?
[19:55:54] <alex_joni> and #5398 to M67
[19:56:02] <alex_joni> P0 - input 0, P1 - input 1, etc
[19:56:36] <alex_joni> at this point I'
[19:56:44] <alex_joni> m open to suggestions
[19:56:54] <alex_joni> if you feel it can be done better..
[19:57:20] <lerman> So, that's pretty simple. The difference is that I would like to just read #5399 and automagically get a particular input.
[19:57:52] <alex_joni> the issue is that you don't always know how many inputs there are
[19:58:05] <lerman> HAL wiring would determine which pin went to which specialized parameter.
[19:58:19] <alex_joni> but I guess the same check can be done for #5678
[19:58:24] <alex_joni> as for M67 P100
[19:58:54] <alex_joni> lerman: usually I'm feeling a bit funny about thins that try to be smart and do things automagically
[19:59:01] <alex_joni> s/thins/things/
[20:00:50] <lerman> The idea of something special -- an Mcode (68) to remember/know doesn't appeal to me.
[20:01:23] <alex_joni> I agree with that.. but it's a bit more conservative with existing g-codes..
[20:01:28] <lerman> I tend to like (what I view as) generic solutions.
[20:01:39] <alex_joni> right
[20:01:44] <alex_joni> I do too
[20:01:45] <lerman> I've been thinking of how to do canned cycles?
[20:02:27] <lerman> What do you think of having user (or integrator) specified Gcodes?
[20:02:45] <alex_joni> I like that to some extent :)
[20:02:54] <lerman> They would work pretty much like subroutines, but arguments would be passed differently.
[20:04:15] <lerman> Each of the A, B, C, ...., Z words in the block would be stored as a separate NAMED parameter prior to calling the subroutine.
[20:04:42] <lerman> Then the subroutine would be called to process it.
[20:05:18] <lerman> The actual subroutine would be stored in a separate file named G81.2 -- for instance.
[20:05:26] <alex_joni> so how about error handling?
[20:05:45] <alex_joni> G81.2 needs an F-word, but none was specified in the current block
[20:06:01] <alex_joni> does the integrator specify that in the file?
[20:06:04] <lerman> The code could check for error conditions and force an error message.
[20:06:37] <lerman> The integrator could provide the G files in a special directory (or where the ini file is).
[20:07:13] <lerman> Right now, we don't make much of a distinction between user and integrator. -- But we could require the G files to be listed in the .ini file.
[20:07:36] <lerman> Of course the user could change that, so it provides little protection.
[20:08:10] <lerman> Is anyone providing EMC in a way that the user cannot be root?
[20:08:29] <lerman> be -> become
[20:09:09] <alex_joni> normal usage of emc doesn't require an user to ever become root
[20:09:31] <alex_joni> and most users seldom do (become root)
[20:10:11] <lerman> I know. I guess the question is: Are there any integrators providing EMC in an environment where users can't screw with the system.
[20:10:17] <lerman> ?
[20:11:25] <lerman> If there are, then we might want to prevent the user from creating his own canned cycles. And perhaps make it possible to create an EMC where the user must pay more to use subroutines :-)
[20:12:15] <skunkworks_> awww ;)
[20:12:20] <lerman> When I look at the definition of some of the lathe threading cycles, I cringe to think that someone would integrate that into the source of the interpreter.
[20:12:42] <alex_joni> I don't think you can prevent an user from ever becoming root
[20:12:49] <lerman> But it would be easy to write a gcode subroutine (or a custom canned cycle) to do that.
[20:13:08] <alex_joni> simply booting a livecd, mounting the filesystem and removing the password from /etc/shadow is 10 minutes
[20:13:36] <lerman> What's a CD? Why would you have a CD drive on an integrated system?
[20:13:43] <alex_joni> USB stick?
[20:14:04] <alex_joni> don't tell me you don't have USB on an integrated system :P
[20:14:30] <alex_joni> granted, one could put a passwd on the BIOS
[20:14:33] <alex_joni> and prevent booting from USB
[20:14:37] <lerman> But you can't boot from the USB stick. And you could set it up some you can't boot from the CD also.
[20:14:47] <skunkworks_> but that could also be resetable.
[20:14:50] <alex_joni> sure you can boot from an USB stick
[20:15:13] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ has a emclive cd on a bootable usb stick
[20:15:46] <lerman> Only if you can open the box and remove the battery. Think big sticker: removal of this sticker voids warrantee.
[20:16:17] <alex_joni> that's legally useless :P
[20:16:33] <alex_joni> you can't deny warranty because of a torn sticker
[20:16:43] <alex_joni> (I do know it scares most of the people..)
[20:17:12] <alex_joni> lerman: you can always use OTP flash to put the system on it, and then no-one will ever temper with it
[20:17:34] <alex_joni> but the point is.. it's not really rocket-science to go through all that trouble
[20:18:58] <lerman> We sell a machine with a sticker like that on it. If we got one back for service that had clearly been tampered with, we would have to do a complete rebuild of the machine. (It's an anesthesia machine.)
[20:20:24] <lerman> Anyone see: http://cgi.ebay.com/NICE-EMCO-MAIER-COMPACT-5-CNC-LATHE-BENCHTOP-1phs_W0QQitemZ130144605843QQihZ003QQcategoryZ97230QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[20:21:05] <alex_joni> looks like the one lerneaen_hydra has
[20:21:25] <alex_joni> "220 block program storage"
[20:21:28] <alex_joni> * alex_joni smiles
[20:22:25] <lerman> Can't change that. Removal of sticker voids....
[20:23:03] <alex_joni> I'd take out the whole control in a minute
[20:23:23] <alex_joni> probably buy one with a broken control :)
[20:23:30] <lerman> Maybe a little longer than that. Be sure to label the wires.
[20:24:51] <lerman> http://cgi.ebay.com/MORI-SEIKI-SL-2B-CNC-SLANT-BED-LATHE-TURNING-CENTER_W0QQitemZ130144224081QQihZ003QQcategoryZ97230QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[20:25:57] <lerman> Another machine (currently at $2075) that could use a new control. Contains some big internal boards with lots of chips.
[20:26:23] <lerman> That's ICs; not swarf.
[20:27:10] <alex_joni> that's a nice one
[20:27:24] <alex_joni> yeah, saw the pics
[20:40:10] <lerman> See you later. Ken
[20:42:26] <alex_joni> later Ken
[21:06:31] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:29:26] <lerneaen_hydra> lerman; yep, that's the lathe I've got
[21:29:35] <lerneaen_hydra> the hardware is quite nice
[21:30:00] <lerneaen_hydra> and it's easy to strip the existing control system and let EMC control it
[21:30:08] <lerneaen_hydra> that one has a toolchanger too
[21:30:11] <lerneaen_hydra> not at all bad
[21:31:09] <skunkworks> stupid question - what is a good bittorrant client?
[21:31:30] <lerneaen_hydra> which platform?
[21:31:38] <skunkworks> MS
[21:31:57] <lerneaen_hydra> Āµtorrent is widespread, closed source and somewhat dubious company though
[21:32:12] <lerneaen_hydra> azurerus is opensource and relatively cpu intensive
[21:32:26] <lerneaen_hydra> I use azureus, though I've got cpu and ram to throw at it
[21:33:35] <skunkworks> I am trying to find and iso for either casmate-pro HM vertion - or gravostyle 98. I have dongles for both but no software.
[21:34:13] <skunkworks> I find tons of 'cracks' but I really only need the software.
[21:35:12] <skunkworks> it may be something that isn't out there.
[21:35:55] <skunkworks> and I really don't know which version the dongle works for ;)
[21:37:19] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[21:37:21] <lerneaen_hydra> nasty
[22:40:12] <skunkworks> few more pictures
[22:40:13] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/engraver/
[22:44:01] <lerneaen_hydra> skunkworks; relatively high resistance/inductance steppers?
[22:46:59] <skunkworks> about 4 ohms static
[22:47:31] <skunkworks> not too bad - 5.4v
[22:47:40] <skunkworks> 1.5a
[23:11:30] <cradek> does anyone know what this 30-taper tool holder with a 9/16-18 outside thread is?
[23:11:42] <cradek> I figured it would be to hold a drill chuck, but none seem to have that mount
[23:11:56] <toastydeath> ?
[23:11:59] <toastydeath> what
[23:12:15] <toastydeath> are you talking about an ER collet chuck?
[23:12:15] <skinnypuppy1334> got a pic of that?
[23:13:42] <cradek> it's the normal taper and shoulder for mounting (erickson 30 NMTB) but there's just this thread sticking about 1" out past the shoulder
[23:14:44] <skunkworks> heh - picture would really help
[23:14:53] <cradek> http://www.maxanet.com/cgi-bin/mnlist.cgi?hoffhilk26/593
[23:14:58] <cradek> aha!
[23:15:09] <cradek> the left three in that photo
[23:15:14] <cradek> mine doesn't have the collet or nut
[23:15:17] <alex_joni> hi chris
[23:15:19] <cradek> hi
[23:15:25] <alex_joni> still busy with the mill?
[23:15:33] <cradek> of course :-)
[23:15:38] <alex_joni> nice
[23:15:52] <skunkworks> looks like a collet holder..
[23:16:05] <cradek> skunkworks: thanks sherlock holmes
[23:16:11] <cradek> :-)
[23:16:20] <alex_joni> heh
[23:16:21] <cradek> without the collet or nut, it looks like it should be for a drill chuck
[23:16:23] <skunkworks> sorry - I must have missed something..
[23:16:26] <skunkworks> :)
[23:16:31] <alex_joni> elementary watson :P
[23:16:41] <skunkworks> but the inside is probablly tapered - isn't it?
[23:16:49] <skunkworks> or have a few tapers.
[23:16:54] <cradek> yes
[23:16:55] <skinnypuppy1334> Perhaps for a tool/cutter grinder???
[23:17:06] <cradek> actually, I didn't even look at the end to notice it's hollow
[23:17:31] <cradek> well darn, I still have no good way to mount a drill chuck.
[23:17:37] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> [1]a-l-p-h-a is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[23:17:43] <cradek> real ones are $hundreds
[23:18:19] <skunkworks> ebay
[23:18:23] <cradek> http://cgi.ebay.com/1-2-KEYLESS-DRILL-CHUCK-NMTB-30-SHANK-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ140147768309QQihZ004QQcategoryZ25292QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[23:18:26] <cradek> wow
[23:18:31] <cradek> ebay is right
[23:19:18] <skunkworks> you might be able to buy a 30 to no.4 morse taper. - then buy a drill chuck with a 4 morse
[23:19:26] <skunkworks> cheaper
[23:19:46] <anonimasu> cradek: what taper do you want?
[23:19:51] <cradek> anonimasu: 30
[23:20:11] <skunkworks> http://cgi.ebay.com/NMTB-30-TAPER-MORSE-TAPER-3-ADAPTER-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ140147773365QQihZ004QQcategoryZ58250QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[23:20:22] <anonimasu> adapters are the shittiest thing there is :/
[23:20:38] <cradek> http://cgi.ebay.com/3-4-KEYLESS-DRILL-CHUCK-NMTB-30-SHANK-NEW_W0QQitemZ140148547717QQihZ004QQcategoryZ25292QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[23:20:49] <skunkworks> http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Keyless-Drill-Chuck-3-8-Capacity-MORSE-TAPER-2-NR_W0QQitemZ220140786372QQihZ012QQcategoryZ41947QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[23:20:49] <cradek> the keyway looks too small. are all 30s not made equal?
[23:21:33] <alex_joni> this is nicer than jeff's etch-a-sketch http://www-personal.umich.edu/~swinterm/ddd/
[23:22:45] <skunkworks> cradek: key?
[23:23:24] <cradek> the slot for the alignment key thing
[23:23:31] <alex_joni> hahahaha: http://www.waterjets.org/waterjet_pictures_9.html
[23:24:53] <skunkworks> for the no 3 morse? looks about right
[23:25:10] <cradek> http://cgi.ebay.com/3-4-KEYLESS-DRILL-CHUCK-NMTB-30-SHANK-NEW_W0QQitemZ140148547717QQihZ004QQcategoryZ25292QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[23:25:14] <cradek> for this one
[23:26:01] <skunkworks> ah
[23:27:01] <jmkasunich__> hi guys
[23:27:03] <toastydeath> uh
[23:27:10] <toastydeath> morse adapters make a lot of sense
[23:27:10] <jmkasunich__> there are different #30 tapers
[23:27:26] <toastydeath> because big drills usually come in a large morse taper
[23:30:33] <alex_joni> hi jmkasunich__
[23:30:49] <jmkasunich__> hi
[23:30:51] <DanielFalck> cradek: I have a bridgeport with 30 taper and I buy new ones from J and L Industrial sometimes
[23:31:08] <alex_joni> jmkasunich__: I was kinda hoping you'd show up :)
[23:31:09] <jmkasunich__> cradek: another possibility is to get a chuck with a straight shank and stick it in a collet
[23:31:15] <jmkasunich__> http://cgi.ebay.com/ALBRECHT-Keyless-Chuck-1-32-1-2-5-8-Shank_W0QQitemZ230161382480QQihZ013QQcategoryZ41947QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[23:31:53] <DanielFalck> http://www.jlindustrial.com/CGI/JISRCH?ns=1&oldNtt=&oldNtk=&oldURLVar=&scrNtt=30+QC+&x=0&y=0&Ntk=Keyword+Search
[23:32:00] <DanielFalck> for new end mill holders
[23:32:07] <toastydeath> i only know of intergal 40 and 50 taper drill chucks
[23:32:28] <toastydeath> all i see for 30 taper stuff is 30 to JT
[23:32:34] <toastydeath> mount your own chuck kind of deal
[23:32:36] <DanielFalck> kennametal brand is real spendy but hertel is cheaper and works
[23:33:32] <jmkasunich__> so alex_joni, what trouble am I in?
[23:34:18] <alex_joni> let's move to devel :)
[23:34:34] <alex_joni> don't want to trouble these folks :P
[23:34:57] <DanielFalck> cradek: what did you end up getting ? Bridgeport ?
[23:35:38] <alex_joni> DanielFalck: http://timeguy.com/cradek/emc/bridgeport
[23:35:55] <DanielFalck> thanks.
[23:36:05] <toastydeath> i wish the bridgeports at work were cat-30
[23:36:43] <DanielFalck> cradek: nice!
[23:52:36] <jmkasunich__> jmkasunich__ is now known as jmkasunich