#emc | Logs for 2007-08-11

[00:32:23] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC: hey... wake up
[00:34:22] <skunkworks> LawrenceG: how is the current drive coming?
[00:34:28] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC: what can you tell me about parker oem650 drives other than no mid band resonance comp.?
[00:34:52] <skunkworks> LawrenceG: I have been using oem650's
[00:35:11] <LawrenceG> Skullworks-PGAB: schematic finalized.... I hope to make smoke this weekend
[00:35:29] <skunkworks> nice
[00:36:16] <skunkworks> LawrenceG: this has an oem650 on the y axis. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKz81fY1OjY
[00:36:37] <LawrenceG> skunkworks: I see a few parkers on ebay.... but with the sale Mariss has on, I might be tempted to try some of his drives
[00:36:56] <skunkworks> I have never used them at less than 1000ppr - never had a resonance problem.
[00:37:13] <skunkworks> I have no experience with geckos.
[00:37:28] <LawrenceG> skunkworks: I take it they use an external supply
[00:37:37] <skunkworks> we have use a bunch of oem650 because you can get them cheap on ebay :)
[00:37:39] <skunkworks> yes
[00:37:49] <skunkworks> I think 75v max
[00:38:16] <LawrenceG> what is their motor max current rating
[00:38:39] <skunkworks> http://www.parkermotion.com/manuals/OEM/OEM350-650.pdf
[00:39:10] <LawrenceG> tnx.... looking
[00:39:15] <skunkworks> acording to the manual 7.5
[00:39:16] <skunkworks> a
[00:40:02] <skunkworks> Like I say - no experince on the geckos - but have had no problems with the 650s
[00:40:57] <skunkworks> the sale on the geckos seems really good
[00:41:04] <skunkworks> 1000 quant pricing
[00:42:28] <LawrenceG> I have not used them, but have a few servos and steppers lying around that are begging for drives... gechos seem to be the standard everything else is rated against!
[00:42:53] <skunkworks> Yes - although I don't like step and direction servo drives.. :)
[00:43:02] <skunkworks> that is just me.
[00:44:04] <LawrenceG> I agree... s/d has the benefit of reduced i/o requirements, but is not as nice as full servo
[00:44:59] <skunkworks> LawrenceG: did you use much of the original h-bridge?
[00:45:55] <LawrenceG> I am still pondering the power stage.... I would like to avoid the ir2111 costs
[00:46:07] <skunkworks> ah
[00:46:27] <skunkworks> how much are they? I don't rememeber them being too bad.
[00:47:42] <skunkworks> ah - the dip is 3.78
[00:48:28] <skunkworks> I guess I went for easy :)
[00:48:36] <LawrenceG> hmmm, digikey has them cheaper in soic.... as cheap as 1.20, but min order of 2500!
[00:48:45] <skunkworks> I saw that :)
[00:49:13] <LawrenceG> I have searched a few times for them on ebay.... too bad IR doesnt send out samples
[00:49:21] <skunkworks> eh
[00:49:22] <skunkworks> heh
[00:50:01] <skunkworks> I could send you a few if you promise to make your circuit public :)
[00:52:29] <LawrenceG> I may not need them... the current circuit idea is to make an h bridge with 4 N channel fets that sets the drive direction and a uc3638 as a current controller using 1 more fet... only the pwm needs to switch fast
[00:53:22] <LawrenceG> direction bridge could be generic optos with a boosted supply for the top fets
[00:54:45] <skunkworks> sounds scary ;) what is nice about the ir chips is they do all the stuff to keep shoot thu from happening amoung otherthings like undervoltage shutdown and such
[00:55:04] <skunkworks> Plus it has a bootstrap circuit
[00:55:52] <LawrenceG> yes... shoot thru with the low inductance design you and jmk had would be hard on the supply of fets
[00:56:10] <skunkworks> :)
[00:59:30] <LawrenceG> have you looked at the uc3638 datasheet? page 6 looks interesting except for the P ch fets and the top fet drivers
[01:00:27] <LawrenceG> http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/uc3638.pdf
[01:01:39] <LawrenceG> TI sends free samples :}
[01:03:28] <LawrenceG> they have the bridge basically shown for reference only ( no sample parts values )
[01:09:47] <skunkworks> LawrenceG: there are ir chips that are similar to the 2111 that allow you to control both hi and low fet. maybe they are cheaper.
[01:10:06] <skunkworks> they may be a better match
[01:14:39] <skunkworks> nope - they seem to be more expensive ;)
[01:29:32] <fenn> there are lots of bridge control IC's out there but they're all $5-10
[01:38:43] <fenn> ir2302 looks interesting because it takes 5v in
[01:40:30] <fenn> oh they all do that, nevermind
[01:40:47] <skunkworks> I think the 2111 is like 5-15
[01:41:43] <fenn> actually i'm reading the datasheet and it needs 10V on Vcc
[01:42:08] <fenn> so nevermind my nevermind
[01:42:11] <skunkworks> actually I am not.. :)
[01:42:15] <fenn> uh, good?
[01:42:33] <skunkworks> I mean I would trust your info more than my bad memeory
[01:42:37] <skunkworks> memory
[01:42:51] <fenn> so you have a +12V input for your servos?
[01:43:41] <skunkworks> I am running optos in - they will run on the pluto 3someting volts. after the optos is 15v cmos
[01:44:17] <fenn> i w33
[01:44:21] <fenn> heh
[01:44:24] <toast_> wee
[01:44:28] <toast_> wii!
[01:44:29] <toast_> i have a wii.
[01:44:59] <jepler> me too
[01:46:39] <toast_> isn't it awesome?
[01:46:57] <toast_> i think it is.
[01:46:57] <skunkworks> fenn: not in the home posision on the keyboard? ;) I see
[01:47:00] <fenn> haptics with no force feedback?
[01:47:16] <toast_> my ex-co-worker went into haptics
[01:47:25] <fenn> skunkworks: i wish they painted the letters in phosphor-tritium or something
[01:47:35] <jepler> toast_: only a few of the games rise to the level of "awesome" but perhaps I'm playing the wrong ones
[01:47:38] <toast_> i forget how this conversation evolved but the end result was us accusing him of partaking in "dildonics"
[01:47:53] <fenn> teledildonics you mean
[01:47:58] <jmkasunich__> jmkasunich__ is now known as jmkasunich
[01:48:07] <toast_> naturally, but the point is we accused him of dildo research
[01:48:09] <fenn> dildonics is more generic and all-encompassing
[01:48:10] <jepler> anyway, I mostly got it because I was yearning for mario & zelda
[01:48:25] <toast_> it just went downhill from there
[01:48:28] <jepler> fenn: someone told me you did the "cartoon penguin with endmill" graphic. is that correct?
[01:48:34] <fenn> jepler: yep
[01:48:40] <toast_> he also once shot a man
[01:48:42] <fenn> the svg is in cvs i think
[01:49:00] <toast_> fenn: a multitalented man
[01:49:26] <jepler> fenn: I wondered if you would consider making something in the same vein to possibly use as the emc 2.2 splash screen
[01:49:36] <fenn> sure
[01:50:15] <jepler> fenn: if you can do a version for the config chooser ("emc2wizard.gif") that would be neat too
[01:50:39] <jepler> fenn: let me know what you come up with
[01:51:01] <fenn> yeah i always hated that config chooser pic (when it was on the wiki)
[01:52:03] <jepler> hated is a stronger word than I'd use, but I think people like seeing updated artwork with new software versions
[01:52:49] <toast_> rainbows!
[01:53:10] <jepler> maybe you can try to make it look like some kind of liquid or losenge </troll>
[01:53:10] <fenn> a unicorn with an endmill for a horn!
[01:53:21] <jepler> oh god that is a terrible idea
[01:53:32] <jepler> but send it to me and I'll write code to show it as the splash screen every april 1
[01:53:37] <toast_> fenn: YES
[01:54:18] <jepler> bbl
[01:55:20] <jepler> fenn: thanks for accepting to work on this .. I hope you come up with something more tasteful than the unicorn (will he have swarf shooting out his ass and urinate coolant?)
[01:56:26] <fenn> what about illustrations of the demo configs?
[01:56:55] <jepler> hm that's an interesting idea
[01:57:14] <jepler> you mean that a config could show an image that might represent the machine?
[01:57:18] <jepler> when in the config chooser?
[01:57:34] <fenn> right
[01:59:39] <toast_> have any of you ever forgotten what a clock was
[01:59:41] <toast_> in the morning
[01:59:50] <toast_> for like, a substantial amount of time
[01:59:54] <fenn> i dont have any clocks
[02:00:04] <fenn> only timestamps everywhere
[02:00:07] <toast_> lol
[02:05:46] <jepler> fenn: I like that idea
[02:05:47] <jepler> let me see about implementing it
[02:18:35] <CIA-24> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl:
[02:18:37] <CIA-24> make it possible to have different texts for different machines in a single folder -- for example.ini, first try example.txt and then README
[02:18:37] <CIA-24> make it possible to have a logo or identifying image for machines. For example.ini, first try example.gif and then logo.gif.
[02:18:37] <CIA-24> thanks to fenn for the suggestion to have a machine image in the config chooser.
[02:18:42] <jepler> now bbl for real this time
[02:18:58] <jepler> it turns out that images about 300 pixels wide fit in the text area
[02:20:01] <fenn> ok so 300x200 sound good?
[02:20:22] <fenn> or is it just packed in a vbox?
[02:34:41] <JymmmEMC> Fuck me...
[02:37:18] <JymmmEMC> Call Dr's office at 11am to get pain script... office staff fsck up and dont tell Doctor before he goes into surgery as 12PM. Doctor calls back at 2pm, says will call in script to pharmacy. Doctor staff calls back at 4:20PM saying I need to pick up paper script as it's a controlled drug and pharmacy can't take call/fax in.
[02:38:29] <JymmmEMC> Get to Dr offic at 5:01pm knock on door, hands me script. Take to pharmacy. Pharmacists says they forgot to write the dosage on the script and calls Dr answering service. Doctor is on vacation.
[02:39:14] <JymmmEMC> On call doctor is ALSO on vacation! Answer service can't get ahold of any doctor via pager, cell, or home numbers.
[02:39:51] <Skullworks-PGAB> JymmmEMC needs heavy dosage of Jim Beam
[02:39:58] <JymmmEMC> I call the hospital surgical dept... no answer.
[02:41:05] <JymmmEMC> As Doctors NEVER tell/say their first name, I do remembr the doctors names written on the IV bottle. I start googling for a doctor smith Anesthesiologist in the area. I find name only, no number
[02:41:17] <JymmmEMC> I keep google some more, and I find a number.
[02:41:58] <JymmmEMC> It happen to have been the right Anesthesiologist. She remembers the case and patient. She's calling the pharmacy now.
[02:42:17] <JymmmEMC> So my gf has been in heavy pain for 9 hours.
[02:42:23] <JymmmEMC> FUCK ME!
[02:42:39] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks: She can't take alcohol with the other pain script she has.
[02:43:09] <Skullworks-PGAB> thats was for without meds
[02:43:21] <JymmmEMC> So remember boys and girls... The next time you have to see a doctor get theri first and last name and business card
[02:43:52] <JymmmEMC> And if you get a paper script, to make sure it's complete.
[02:44:04] <JymmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: No she has a pain script, it's just not working.
[02:44:22] <Skullworks-PGAB> ah
[02:44:39] <JymmmEMC> And be sure to ALWAYS have the 24Hour pharmacy number to give to the doctor when you finall get ahold of one.
[02:45:22] <JymmmEMC> They gave her one script that made her VERY depressed. We wouldn't have know had I not read the PDR on the drug.
[02:45:42] <JymmmEMC> it was a side effect.
[02:45:50] <Skullworks-PGAB> like me on 1300 mg of Vicoden - still feel the pain, but with that, I don't care.
[02:45:57] <JymmmEMC> of Darvicet (sp)
[02:46:17] <JymmmEMC> She can't take any of the codine family of drugs.
[02:47:11] <JymmmEMC> I had called Medical Records to find out what they gave her in recovery as it didn't have any side effects on her.
[02:47:24] <JymmmEMC> The pharmacists just called, ready to pick up.
[02:57:34] <jepler> fenn: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/pickconfig-tripod.png -- the configuration image is placed inside the scrolled text area which is about 300 wide. the image I was hoping you would replace is the vertical banner on the left..
[02:58:02] <cradek> hey that's pretty cool
[02:58:31] <jepler> for the machine image, I figure an integrator might choose a photo of the machine, or a manufacturer logo, or whatever
[03:04:06] <toast_> why is there this preception that dividing heads are more accurate than rotary tables
[03:04:45] <toast_> (actual question, i can't figure out why people have that idea)
[03:05:25] <cradek> I don't know but I sure have that perception too
[03:05:32] <cradek> they are both worm gears...
[03:05:48] <toast_> right
[03:06:34] <toast_> are the more affordable dividing heads more accurate than the affordable rotary tables?
[03:06:40] <toast_> like, did someone do a test
[03:06:43] <cradek> probably
[03:06:58] <cradek> I think cheap rotary tables have backlash
[03:07:05] <toast_> so do dividing heads
[03:07:18] <cradek> :-)
[03:07:22] <cradek> I don't know the answer then
[03:07:21] <toast_> same internals
[03:07:26] <toast_> weird man
[03:07:42] <toast_> maybe it's the plates
[03:08:00] <toast_> maybe people think that, because it's got those plates, that it's more accurate than a dial and vernier
[03:15:12] <jmkasunich> this is getting downright annoying
[03:15:38] <toast_> ...?
[03:15:43] <jmkasunich> disconnects
[03:15:49] <toast_> =(
[03:56:11] <toast_> pew pew pew
[05:05:12] <fenn> hrmph
[05:05:32] <fenn> stupid nvidia binary modules
[05:07:25] <fenn> its been so long since i rebooted that i forgot what kernel i was running :(
[05:07:54] <fenn> so i got a new one instead
[05:31:40] <toast_> that always freaks me out man
[05:31:43] <toast_> i feel your pain
[05:50:22] <toast_> toast_ is now known as toastydeath
[13:46:18] <jmkasunich_> jmkasunich_ is now known as jmkasunich
[14:13:30] <alex_joni> HAHA http://www.vidarholen.net/contents/wordcount/
[14:34:11] <Ziegle1> woah
[14:34:28] <Ziegle1> what is that counting it in?
[14:34:41] <Ziegle1> the code?!
[14:35:17] <Ziegle1> that is something else
[14:41:47] <alex_joni> Ziegle1: linux kernel
[14:42:30] <Ziegle1> yea I read... I can believe all that is in the source
[14:42:47] <Ziegle1> cnat*
[14:42:53] <Ziegle1> yeesh
[14:42:54] <Ziegle1> cant type
[14:43:29] <alex_joni> 130 times in 130MB of text.. not that hard to believe
[14:43:36] <alex_joni> http://xkcd.com/249/ <- heh
[14:44:20] <cradek> alex_joni: http://blag.xkcd.com/
[14:45:04] <alex_joni> http://xkcd.com/chesscoaster/ hahaha
[14:53:49] <jlmjvm> good morning all
[14:54:18] <lagfish> howdy
[14:54:55] <jlmjvm> does anyone have any experience with electrical noise?
[14:55:08] <Guest519> hi
[14:57:18] <jlmjvm> if i turn on my coolant or spindle,my z axis pulses slightly,driving me crazy
[14:58:19] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: how are you driving it?
[14:58:26] <alex_joni> cradek: this is funnier: http://blag.xkcd.com/2007/04/19/life-imitates-xkcd-part-ii-richard-stallman/
[14:59:51] <jlmjvm> they are wired direct to switches,dont go through a breakout board or relays
[15:00:10] <jlmjvm> i have 1 g203v and 2 g201,s
[15:00:23] <jlmjvm> only the g203v is pulsing
[15:01:28] <alex_joni> where is it located?
[15:01:54] <jlmjvm> what do you mean?
[15:03:57] <alex_joni> the g203v
[15:04:02] <alex_joni> is it close to the spindle?
[15:04:13] <alex_joni> does the spindle cable travel along with the step/dir wires?
[15:05:01] <jlmjvm> how did you know that
[15:05:16] <jlmjvm> yes,actually it does
[15:05:18] <toast> he used the force
[15:05:26] <jlmjvm> lol
[15:06:07] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: I suspect you get electrical noise in the step/dir cables
[15:06:12] <alex_joni> what kind of cable did you use?
[15:06:26] <jlmjvm> its shielded cable
[15:06:33] <alex_joni> you could get some cheapish STP cable (shielded twisted pair)
[15:06:42] <alex_joni> the one used for networking
[15:06:54] <alex_joni> tie the shield to the PC's ground on one side only
[15:07:06] <alex_joni> (shielded cable should only be tied to ground on one side)
[15:07:25] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: and try to move the 110V wires further away from step/driv (5V)
[15:07:53] <jlmjvm> so ground the shielded cable to the breakout board ground
[15:09:39] <alex_joni> yup
[15:11:19] <jlmjvm> will try that
[15:11:45] <alex_joni> http://xkcd.com/224/
[15:33:16] <jlmjvm> alex joni:that made things worse
[15:33:33] <alex_joni> hmm.. really?
[15:34:13] <alex_joni> can't you move things around so the 110V lines are not close to step/dir?
[15:34:15] <jlmjvm> yes now getting a joint2 error in emc,and going into estop in mach3
[15:34:22] <alex_joni> joint error?
[15:34:33] <alex_joni> are you using encoders?
[15:34:42] <jlmjvm> gonna try that,no encoders
[15:34:55] <alex_joni> then it's not related to what you did
[15:35:25] <jlmjvm> hooking up the shield wire to breakout board ground made it start doing this
[15:35:25] <alex_joni> you only get joint error on steppers if the stepgen is trying to go too fast
[15:35:43] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: it can't...
[15:35:47] <jlmjvm> joint limit
[15:35:59] <alex_joni> oh, that's a whole different thing
[15:36:21] <alex_joni> joint limit means a limit switch is tripped
[15:36:32] <alex_joni> maybe you don't have the right polarity?
[15:36:43] <jlmjvm> ?
[15:37:02] <alex_joni> how is the limit switch wired?
[15:37:18] <jlmjvm> nc
[15:37:29] <alex_joni> going to gnd?
[15:37:34] <alex_joni> pullup to 5V?
[15:37:55] <jlmjvm> pullup to 5v i think
[15:39:10] <jlmjvm> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=45&osCsid=3c345a952796a36f72e3ce58ad271772
[15:39:21] <jlmjvm> thats my breakout board
[15:40:03] <Guest519> hey guys, are you familiar with the sieg x2 or x3 mills?
[15:40:33] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: you need to check the wiring
[15:40:41] <alex_joni> I suspect it was somehow touching the shield
[15:40:59] <alex_joni> now that you grounded it it also pulls the limit to gnd
[15:41:40] <Ziegle1> I know what they are Guest519
[15:41:58] <Guest519> I'm wondering if it's worth it going getting the x3 instead of x2
[15:42:02] <Guest519> since it's twice the cost
[15:42:30] <Ziegle1> cant really answer that... what do you want to use it for
[15:42:34] <Guest519> cost about the same to convert them to CNC
[15:42:54] <Guest519> well I definitely want to convert to CNC, and do prototype work, maybe light production
[15:43:00] <Guest519> on small parts
[15:43:04] <Skullworks-PGAB> X3 much better
[15:43:25] <Guest519> I would hate to go with X2 and then later on regret it for having too small of a machine
[15:43:36] <Ziegle1> X3 then
[15:44:00] <jlmjvm> took the shield wire off and it quit doing that
[15:44:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> and if you have run BP or other "full sized machines" an X2 could be a real let down
[15:44:36] <Guest519> right
[15:44:52] <Guest519> is the X3 really worth twice the money for the x2?
[15:44:56] <Skullworks-PGAB> the column stiffness/rigidity and damping make all the different
[15:45:01] <Guest519> I mean the work envelope is not that much bigger
[15:45:01] <Skullworks-PGAB> difference
[15:45:23] <Guest519> right
[15:45:28] <Guest519> do you have a X3?
[15:45:34] <Skullworks-PGAB> I do
[15:45:41] <Guest519> manual or CNC?
[15:45:52] <Skullworks-PGAB> looked at the X1 - and X2
[15:46:01] <Skullworks-PGAB> conversion in process
[15:46:06] <Skullworks-PGAB> servo
[15:46:43] <Skullworks-PGAB> and going to use a servo for the spindle drive... Rigid tapping !
[15:47:37] <Guest519> cool
[15:47:52] <Skullworks-PGAB> I actually like the X1 base better than the X2 - but the X1 column is a joke
[15:48:40] <Guest519> I see
[15:48:55] <Guest519> you're going with ballscrews obviously?
[15:49:23] <Skullworks-PGAB> I'm going to buy the X1 extended table kit with Y axis extension for use as the base of the EDM I'm also building.
[15:49:33] <Skullworks-PGAB> yes ball screws
[15:50:03] <Skullworks-PGAB> (kit from littlemachineshop.com)
[15:50:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> kit for X1
[15:50:52] <Skullworks-PGAB> my conversion will be "different"
[15:51:59] <Skullworks-PGAB> I'm going to put a riser under the column which is where the Y axis servo is mounted, the ballscrew comes thru that riser.
[15:52:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> there will be nothing out front of the table
[15:53:01] <alex_joni> bbl
[15:53:22] <Skullworks-PGAB> I should also gain about 5 inches of Z travel
[15:53:43] <Guest519> I see
[15:54:19] <Guest519> do you think 270 oz in steppers will work?
[15:54:50] <Skullworks-PGAB> also will be adding a table extension which will allow mounting a rotary table (4th axis) outside the machines travel.
[15:55:05] <Skullworks-PGAB> they work fine for X/Y axis
[15:55:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> seen people use 180 oz-in on the tables
[15:55:53] <Guest519> I dont want to go with gecko drives
[15:56:00] <Guest519> because of the cost
[15:56:02] <Skullworks-PGAB> no need
[15:56:22] <skunkworks> Guest519: there is a pretty good sale going on right now - fyi. (gecko)
[15:56:40] <alex_joni> skunkworks: ?
[15:56:40] <Skullworks-PGAB> Z axis will be the problem though
[15:56:55] <Guest519> I'll check that out
[15:56:55] <Guest519> why's that?
[15:57:07] <alex_joni> oh, cool
[15:57:08] <Skullworks-PGAB> yes sale like $112 - customer appreciation month
[15:57:12] <skunkworks> alex_joni: he is giving the 1000 quantity price
[15:57:26] <alex_joni> G201 for 87$
[15:57:31] <alex_joni> time to get your geckos ;)
[15:57:39] <skunkworks> Yesa
[15:57:41] <skunkworks> Yes
[15:58:07] <jlmjvm> that is a good price
[15:58:26] <jlmjvm> but im getting noise on mine somehow
[15:58:34] <Guest519> xylotex are $150, is it worth the extra $110?
[15:58:42] <jlmjvm> gonna get 2 more monday
[15:59:01] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: cabling.. not gecko
[15:59:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> remember geckos are a single axis - so you would need 3
[15:59:28] <Guest519> yeah
[15:59:30] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: you can try to keep them close to the PC/breakout board
[15:59:31] <jlmjvm> im sure its me alex,just trying to find out why
[15:59:37] <alex_joni> and run the stepper wires from there
[15:59:41] <alex_joni> along with the spindle cable
[15:59:45] <jlmjvm> 6 inches
[15:59:48] <Skullworks-PGAB> but a 3 axis Xlyo board and a gecko...
[15:59:51] <jlmjvm> away
[15:59:55] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: that's ok
[16:00:13] <Skullworks-PGAB> gives you X/Y/A with the gecko giving Z the boost
[16:00:14] <Guest519> 3 geckos = $261, xlyotek 3 axis = $150
[16:00:32] <Guest519> I have no clue what that means
[16:00:45] <jlmjvm> could a bad breakout board be causing this,the 203v is grounded to it
[16:01:23] <Skullworks-PGAB> use Xlyotex board to power the table and a 4th axis if you want one
[16:01:32] <Skullworks-PGAB> but use a single gecko on Z
[16:02:23] <jlmjvm> the 203v common is ground,201 common is 5v,the 201 drives arent getting the noise
[16:02:44] <Skullworks-PGAB> you can use a Xlyotex to power the Z but it will only do about 27 IPM
[16:03:18] <Guest519> I see
[16:03:51] <Guest519> and what kind of stepper do you recommend for the Z?
[16:03:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> vist CNCfusion.com - watch his videos
[16:04:00] <jlmjvm> somehow when i use my toggle switch for my coolant or my drum switch for my spindle the 203v will pulse slightly
[16:04:17] <Skullworks-PGAB> he makes X3 conversion kits
[16:04:31] <skunkworks> sounds like a grounding problem
[16:04:59] <Skullworks-PGAB> I think you would need a 400 oz-in for
[16:05:03] <Skullworks-PGAB> Z
[16:06:16] <Guest519> 27 IPM doesnt seem that bad
[16:07:12] <Skullworks-PGAB> another place to visit is http://cnckits.com.au/
[16:07:24] <Skullworks-PGAB> they have speed!
[16:07:35] <Guest519> will do
[16:07:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> but they are using higher voltage drivers
[16:07:45] <Guest519> what do you think an estimate of the total cost of this project is?
[16:07:53] <Guest519> ballscrew
[16:07:55] <Guest519> bare minimum
[16:08:02] <Guest519> I estimated $2000
[16:08:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> hmm - 1 sec
[16:08:52] <Guest519> im considering machining the motor mounts myself now
[16:10:04] <Skullworks-PGAB> many people have
[16:10:28] <Skullworks-PGAB> go check out all the photos at CNCfusion for ideas
[16:11:32] <Skullworks-PGAB> I personally have issues with his design - like having open bearing ball races exposed to chips
[16:11:56] <Skullworks-PGAB> but alot of people like his kit
[16:13:33] <Skullworks-PGAB> I expect 20 years of service from a machine - without having to tear it down often for repair - I expect I would be replacing those bearings rather often.
[16:14:39] <Skullworks-PGAB> So I'm building my own conversion. Servo, sealed and ready for full flood.
[16:14:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> with a 1-shot lube system
[16:16:24] <Skullworks-PGAB> I would look at a router differently - but a mini bed mill should perform to at least minimum expectations.
[16:16:51] <Guest519> I see
[16:16:56] <Guest519> well I'm not expecting 20 years
[16:17:06] <Guest519> maybe 5 until I buy a house and get a full sized mill
[16:25:03] <Guest519> dont the bearings have wipers?
[16:36:57] <rcsu> hi channel
[16:37:13] <rcsu> * rcsu is a bit lurking ;)
[16:39:22] <toast> fffff
[16:48:23] <Skullworks-PGAB> There are no seals on the bearings used in the cncfusion kit
[16:48:51] <Skullworks-PGAB> there are no seals on the nook ballscres
[16:49:33] <Skullworks-PGAB> there ARE seals on the Premium ballscrew kit - but none on the bearings
[16:50:15] <Skullworks-PGAB> seals on the premo kit are wipers on the ball nuts
[16:50:29] <Skullworks-PGAB> bearings are still open
[16:55:24] <Skullworks-PGAB> you can see the balls in the bearings on 2 different bearings in this pic http://www.cncfusion.com/images/X3mounts/ABBA%20ballscrew%20kit/Cimg5717.jpg
[16:55:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> not even a sealed bearing
[16:56:18] <les_w> why hi lawrence
[16:57:03] <Guest519> hmm
[16:57:30] <les_w> just taking a break from the tractor. Man it's hot out there
[16:58:36] <toast> is it... a CNC tractor
[16:59:08] <les_w> I have thought about it!!
[16:59:25] <toast> g0
[16:59:30] <LawrenceG> les_w: hello Sir
[16:59:29] <les_w> toolpath is critical for sure!
[16:59:37] <les_w> hey
[16:59:37] <toast> seriously
[17:00:02] <toast> two axis machine, one linear axis and one rotary axis
[17:00:12] <les_w> I could do robot mowrs I guess
[17:00:20] <LawrenceG> I just have breakfast cooking... bbl
[17:00:28] <toast> well the interesting thing would be to use APT
[17:00:28] <les_w> k
[17:00:34] <toast> measure your yard
[17:00:36] <les_w> hmm yeah
[17:00:43] <toast> generate the toolpath and islands from APT
[17:00:46] <toast> and just tell it to rough it out
[17:00:49] <toast> bam
[17:00:52] <les_w> heh
[17:01:14] <les_w> I am having trouble with a rough ride...shakes my teeth out
[17:01:27] <toast> airbags!
[17:01:33] <toast> and HUGE RIMS
[17:01:51] <les_w> was thinking of an automated top dresser.....levels without destroying grass
[17:02:19] <toast> hahah.
[17:02:23] <les_w> let's see...a gyro...some distance senssors...
[17:02:50] <les_w> put sand in low spots
[17:03:24] <les_w> really I am pulling zero g in some bumps
[17:05:44] <les_w> I graded and harrowed...but the implements are outside the wheelbase...so some bump frequencies actually get wore
[17:05:56] <les_w> worse
[17:07:14] <les_w> hmm fourier transform of two heaviside functions....would describe the washboard patterm effect
[17:07:23] <toast> you have lost your mind
[17:07:28] <les_w> hahaha
[17:07:28] <toast> i approve
[17:08:24] <les_w> digital filters in tractor suspensions
[17:08:29] <les_w> bleh
[17:08:45] <les_w> I have to think about something mowing all those acres
[17:09:47] <les_w> yeah....transfer function a combed sin(x)/x really
[17:10:19] <toast> you could have hinged blades
[17:10:27] <toast> to allow conic mowing instead of straight planes
[17:10:44] <toast> and have the blades gimballed
[17:10:45] <les_w> ahh...a convolution integrator
[17:10:47] <toast> INSANITY
[17:10:50] <les_w> hahaha
[17:12:45] <les_w> well back to tractor riding and math. Later!
[17:13:32] <toast> ahaha
[17:33:19] <alex_joni> hey les
[17:33:21] <alex_joni> long time no see
[17:33:24] <JymmmEMC> les_w:
[17:35:06] <jmkasunich> <les_w> well back to tractor riding and math.
[17:36:52] <JymmmEMC> 2nd time I just missed him.
[17:40:04] <alex_joni> hi jmk
[17:40:08] <jmkasunich> hi
[17:40:14] <alex_joni> what's new ?
[17:40:37] <jmkasunich> not much at the moment
[17:41:31] <alex_joni> I learned some new things lately
[17:41:47] <alex_joni> played with a nice fiber-laser
[17:43:50] <jmkasunich> saw that reading back
[17:43:54] <jmkasunich> zap zap
[17:44:02] <jmkasunich> or as toasty would say: pew pew pew
[17:45:49] <alex_joni> heh
[17:49:37] <toast_> pew pew pew!
[17:50:42] <alex_joni> ha
[17:56:33] <CIA-24> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/puma/puma.ini: clean some fogotten hal file, and make the config work again (XYZRPW is not allowed anymore
[18:01:46] <Fritz> Fritz is now known as Fritz_
[18:04:16] <Fritz_> Does anyone here mill circuit boards?
[18:04:32] <jmkasunich> cradek does, not sure if he's around at the moment
[18:04:40] <jmkasunich> skunkworks ditto
[18:07:15] <Fritz_> I need to deal with changing tool bits
[18:08:37] <JymmmEMC> Fritz_: like Z-zero ?
[18:12:15] <jmkasunich> is your tooling repeatable (toolholders for each tool), or do you have collets or something similar that need re-zeroed after each toolchange?
[18:18:53] <Fritz_> Yes
[18:19:02] <jmkasunich> yes?
[18:19:16] <jmkasunich> that was an A or B question, not a yes no question
[18:20:05] <Fritz_> My basic tooling is ER16 collets in my Taig mill
[18:20:45] <Fritz_> B
[18:21:06] <jmkasunich> ok, so you will need to touch off after each toolchange
[18:21:18] <jmkasunich> so what do you want to know?
[18:25:06] <les_w> fritz ought to make some of my toolholder design...I hold .01"D end mills in them
[18:25:14] <Skullworks-PGAB> Quote for today "You know you are in a different mindset when you see a 52" plasma TV, no curtains, and lawn chairs for furniture." - in ref to our recent stockmarket flux
[18:25:27] <les_w> heh
[18:25:45] <JymmmEMC> les_w: !!!!!!!!!!!!!
[18:25:45] <Fritz_> I'm trying to search documentation/wiki, but my connection is awful for browsing right now...
[18:25:45] <Fritz_> I know about inserting (MSG) comments with AXIS
[18:26:40] <Fritz_> But as how to change a bit in a collet, touch off, and resume the program...
[18:27:14] <jmkasunich> thats a very good question
[18:27:19] <JymmmEMC> Fritz_: One way is when you chuck the bit, let it touch the table, then tighten
[18:27:23] <jmkasunich> I'm afraid I don't know the answer
[18:27:34] <jmkasunich> JymmmEMC: the actual touch off isn't the issue here
[18:27:40] <jmkasunich> its how to do it in the middle of a program
[18:27:56] <toast_> m00?
[18:27:58] <jmkasunich> I think some folks break the g-code program into one chunk per tool
[18:27:59] <JymmmEMC> break the program apart or add a pause?
[18:28:08] <jlmjvm> has anyone had any experience with ground spike noise
[18:28:25] <les_w> Fritz make yourself a set of these (scroll to bottom) http://www.lmwatts.com/forsale.html
[18:28:29] <toast_> i use an M00
[18:28:35] <toast_> not on emc though.
[18:28:38] <toast_> (which i don't have access to)
[18:28:50] <les_w> hey jymmm
[18:29:05] <JymmmEMC> les_w: LTNS, how ya been?
[18:29:13] <les_w> ok...busy
[18:29:24] <JymmmEMC> les_w: I figures the lawyers chewed ya up
[18:29:43] <les_w> nah...things are going pretty darned good
[18:30:00] <JymmmEMC> les_w: cool beans, got any UNburned fingers left?
[18:30:11] <les_w> nope
[18:30:12] <les_w> haha
[18:30:22] <JymmmEMC> les_w: In production yet?
[18:30:36] <JymmmEMC> the fingerburned that is
[18:30:42] <JymmmEMC> burner
[18:31:01] <les_w> not yet...have a mettalurgical staff working on cone alloys
[18:31:07] <les_w> but it's basically done
[18:31:21] <les_w> metallurgical
[18:31:23] <les_w> bleh
[18:31:34] <JymmmEMC> les_w: Awesome, what's the sustained mW?
[18:31:45] <les_w> have even a new project...kester solder co.
[18:31:52] <les_w> 5000 mw
[18:32:05] <JymmmEMC> les_w: OH FSCK ME!!! Damn you're good =)
[18:32:17] <les_w> kester wants to detect flux voids on solder extrusion lines
[18:32:31] <alex_joni> hi les_w
[18:32:35] <les_w> hi alex
[18:32:37] <JymmmEMC> les_w: optically?
[18:32:47] <alex_joni> what'cha working on lately?
[18:32:48] <les_w> tried it
[18:33:00] <les_w> emissivity of solder is .03
[18:33:20] <les_w> a little tough
[18:33:32] <JymmmEMC> .03" ?
[18:33:32] <les_w> working on ultrasonic
[18:33:55] <alex_joni> oh, cool
[18:34:03] <les_w> yeah.....hard to do ir remote temp sensing on something that reflective
[18:34:05] <alex_joni> last we talked you were doing some piezo thingie
[18:34:26] <les_w> it's pretty much done now
[18:34:32] <alex_joni> cool
[18:34:47] <les_w> working on peripheral aps for the technology
[18:35:40] <alex_joni> I see.. nice
[18:35:40] <les_w> i.e. flow of breathing through soda straw will run micro p and indicators
[18:35:53] <les_w> "no moving parts"....kinda
[18:36:12] <les_w> cost a buck or so
[18:36:16] <toast_> no moving parts except the parts tha move amirite
[18:36:19] <alex_joni> except the human parts
[18:36:30] <les_w> correct toast
[18:36:41] <les_w> the piezo moves a micron or two
[18:37:22] <les_w> it's simply a whistle witha microphone attached
[18:37:41] <JymmmEMC> aka finger burned =)
[18:37:47] <les_w> right
[18:38:18] <les_w> the whistle makes 10^5 pascal overpressure at 50 kHz...a little loud.
[18:38:57] <les_w> ever pointed a shop air gun at a blind hole in a metal part?
[18:39:05] <toast_> hahah yeah
[18:39:08] <toast_> all the time
[18:39:09] <toast_> i hate that
[18:39:14] <les_w> so you get it
[18:39:24] <toast_> what's it for
[18:39:31] <toast_> now that i hate whatever it is
[18:39:39] <les_w> power for air tools
[18:39:42] <toast_> oh
[18:40:43] <les_w> our whistle is optimized to be very loud. The sound will burn tissue and set some things on fire.
[18:41:35] <JymmmEMC> les_w: Now, just invent a whistle that sounds like a Harley... you'll sell millions to wanna-be bikers!
[18:41:53] <les_w> hmm
[18:42:54] <les_w> for kid's bikes...digital unit...synched to spoke rotation
[18:43:02] <JymmmEMC> lol, there ya go!
[18:43:07] <les_w> makes synthesized harley sound....
[18:43:11] <JymmmEMC> or attaches to muffler
[18:43:17] <les_w> Great toy idea Jymmm
[18:43:33] <JymmmEMC> so every toyota hybrid will sound like a harley
[18:43:38] <les_w> parents would hate it
[18:43:44] <Fritz_> I envision a CO2 capsule with several of those whistles...with a handle and a pin. Sonic grenade, anyone?
[18:43:52] <les_w> Oh they have those for cars
[18:44:27] <les_w> yeah I could get some serious sound with a co2 cart.
[18:44:51] <les_w> But jymmm, not for kids bikes
[18:45:04] <les_w> great great idea
[18:45:24] <les_w> time for you to grow up and get rich jymmm
[18:45:38] <JymmmEMC> les_w: I refuse to grow up =)
[18:45:50] <les_w> well ok just the latter
[18:45:55] <les_w> haha
[18:46:24] <JymmmEMC> les_w: That works, not progressing too far in that direction, but eh...
[18:46:32] <les_w> i'm searching that idea of yours right now.
[18:46:50] <JymmmEMC> les_w: what, a harley whistle?
[18:47:32] <les_w> crap
[18:47:36] <les_w> http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5314372.html
[18:48:14] <JymmmEMC> les_w: Do you have "rights" to the finger burner at all?
[18:48:16] <alex_joni> hahahaha
[18:48:53] <les_w> Not for the original ap
[18:49:12] <JymmmEMC> les_w: Could you use your fingerburner as the power source/transducer for power and level of sound?
[18:49:13] <les_w> but the peripheral...perhaps.
[18:49:45] <les_w> Let me ask you this...
[18:50:07] <les_w> one peripheral ap is an ultrasonic cleaner
[18:50:15] <les_w> powered by shop air
[18:50:28] <les_w> just a $1 piece of plastic
[18:50:40] <les_w> what about that?
[18:51:46] <JymmmEMC> at the cost of even small jewlery ultrasonic cleaners, you could sell that to most car garages
[18:52:09] <les_w> it could be about 100 watt
[18:52:37] <JymmmEMC> les_w: No, one of you is enough, we dont need 100 of ya ;)
[18:52:43] <les_w> haha
[18:53:21] <JymmmEMC> les_w: wind powered weather station
[18:53:49] <les_w> well yeah but little propellers work
[18:53:49] <JymmmEMC> les_w: I bet the USFS would eat that up.
[18:54:18] <JymmmEMC> les_w: advanced fire monitoring
[18:54:25] <les_w> ours is solar
[18:54:42] <JymmmEMC> les_w: But, not at $1/ea
[18:55:23] <les_w> http://www.griffin.uga.edu/aemn/cgi-bin/AEMN.pl?site=GATG&report=c
[18:56:01] <les_w> I think there are many many uses
[18:56:14] <les_w> but I need the blessing of my client
[18:56:29] <les_w> they paid for the technology
[18:56:35] <les_w> they paid a lot
[18:56:48] <JymmmEMC> les_w: So, you got the new car already?
[18:57:47] <les_w> uh..I bought one a year ago
[18:57:49] <les_w> haha
[18:58:02] <JymmmEMC> les_w: Haven't seen you in a year or so =)
[18:58:09] <les_w> I'm buying a used golf cart...will that do?
[18:58:25] <JymmmEMC> les_w: Does that me you finished the golf course?
[18:58:28] <JymmmEMC> mean
[18:58:43] <les_w> all but the greens
[18:58:51] <les_w> came out pretty good
[18:58:56] <alex_joni> all 18 holes?
[18:59:00] <alex_joni> ;-)
[18:59:03] <les_w> I just mowed it!
[18:59:37] <les_w> all 3 holes...400 yard par4 and two 250 yard par 3
[18:59:57] <les_w> formerly a cow pasture.
[19:00:38] <JymmmEMC> les_w: still working on getting 9 holes total?
[19:01:16] <les_w> the greens aren't in because of the spring drought
[19:01:25] <les_w> I only have room for 3
[19:01:56] <JymmmEMC> ah, gotcha. Well now you gotta knock out some more trees/mountains =)
[19:02:09] <les_w> heh
[19:02:32] <JymmmEMC> les_w: Ever get your solar firewood cure box goin?
[19:02:38] <les_w> well it's either a big back yard or a hobby golf course
[19:02:56] <les_w> yes...we are using old seagoing containers
[19:03:12] <les_w> have 3000 ft of walnut in one now
[19:03:24] <JymmmEMC> les_w: Oh that works... how much are those going for anyway?
[19:03:26] <les_w> all quartersawn
[19:04:51] <JymmmEMC> used containers I mean. 20 footers?
[19:08:08] <les_w> yeah
[19:08:38] <les_w> what happens if you put a too big image inimagebin? I was going to show you
[19:09:18] <les_w> i'll just try it
[19:11:15] <les_w> it will not take it
[19:11:20] <les_w> hold on
[19:15:06] <les_w> got it. search les on http://imagebin.org
[19:18:58] <les_w> well whenever you guys come back from oblivion
[19:19:08] <alex_joni> is that a graveyard?
[19:19:13] <les_w> yup
[19:19:20] <alex_joni> spooky :P
[19:19:21] <les_w> spectator gallery
[19:19:48] <les_w> that view is about halfway down the par 4 fairway
[19:20:08] <les_w> I could cover it up with trees
[19:20:20] <les_w> but I don't mind seeing it
[19:20:27] <les_w> some don't like it
[19:20:35] <jmkasunich_> jmkasunich_ is now known as jmkasunich
[19:20:36] <les_w> we donated that land anyway
[19:21:20] <les_w> well jmk back from oblivion anyway
[19:22:45] <skunkworks> Fritz_: I would setup a microswitch to do touchoff. There is an ngc example in trunk on how to use it.
[19:22:52] <les_w> things get tough if you overshoot the green alex
[19:23:48] <LawrenceG> les_w: hey... my computer was shaking so much that I had standing waves in my coffee cup... 2 broken blades on P/S fan!
[19:24:01] <les_w> wow
[19:24:11] <les_w> what broke em?
[19:24:27] <LawrenceG> guess I stuck my fingers in there one too many times
[19:24:31] <les_w> haha
[19:24:54] <les_w> I have noticed fan bearings are poor these days
[19:24:55] <skunkworks> I have actually broke processor fan more than once with my fingers :)
[19:25:05] <LawrenceG> they were just laying inside the supply amoung all the trons
[19:25:19] <les_w> my box is on its third
[19:26:05] <LawrenceG> seems to be a regular problem... I recycle fans out of boxes given to me... this on lasted well... been on since 2002
[19:26:21] <les_w> that's pretty good
[19:26:51] <skunkworks> Fritz_: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/nc_files/tool-length-probe.ngc
[19:27:34] <les_w> I still use the circular spark plug gage and infamous G92 + gage reading
[19:29:19] <skunkworks> I have been cutting circuit boards - 5 or so different bits in a rotozip style router. It is nice just to put the cutter in - hit play - touches of the microswitch and keeps going
[19:29:58] <les_w> I used to. Now for business it's cheaper to use proto houses.
[19:30:04] <les_w> for me.
[19:30:05] <LawrenceG> wow... just disected old fan... still good lube and bearings are ok... hard to balance a 7 blade fan with 2 missing blades
[19:30:25] <Fritz_> Yeah...I'd seen that mentioned before, probably in the channel
[19:30:26] <Fritz_> That's what I was looking for
[19:30:59] <cradek> the probe setup is very nice for random tool lengths
[19:31:07] <cradek> I really recommend trying it
[19:31:15] <les_w> super glue with a little paper or foil reinforcement?
[19:33:10] <JymmmEMC> les_w: You sure you dont want to call that par666 instead?
[19:33:29] <les_w> oh you scrolled back
[19:33:33] <les_w> haha
[19:33:34] <JymmmEMC> Screw the water trap... we got a GRAVEYARD TRAP!
[19:34:03] <les_w> ok...should I do a line of trees?
[19:34:24] <les_w> turns into real puttputt golf if you over shoot
[19:34:30] <JymmmEMC> les_w: Nuh Uh.... I LIKE IT!!! Will freak out the natives =)
[19:34:50] <les_w> hey jymmm...look at one or two pictures back
[19:35:11] <les_w> see what I did with 2500 feet of oak 1x6
[19:35:58] <les_w> our sawmill is just behind the graveyard
[19:36:07] <les_w> woodmizer 25 hp
[19:36:50] <JymmmEMC> les_w: WOW, that looks really nice! The 1st pic you showed me moons ago, I was thinking eh, didn't realize there was another room on it
[19:37:24] <les_w> the one you saw before was virtual I think...this is how it turned out
[19:37:31] <JymmmEMC> les_w: Ah, gotcha.
[19:37:39] <JymmmEMC> les_w: Hey, hoes the chicken doin?
[19:37:42] <JymmmEMC> how's
[19:37:52] <les_w> dog ate him
[19:37:57] <JymmmEMC> awwww
[19:38:04] <les_w> i'll get more
[19:38:25] <JymmmEMC> les_w: Yeah, but not a chicken that thinks it's a dog/cat
[19:38:47] <les_w> They all do that I have found
[19:38:51] <JymmmEMC> les_w: I have that pic as part of screen saver on the TV PC =)
[19:39:06] <les_w> if there is only one or two...they will follow the cat every time
[19:39:23] <les_w> oh the cat/chicken?
[19:39:34] <JymmmEMC> les_w: Yeah =)
[19:39:38] <les_w> yeah I like that
[19:39:44] <les_w> lucky shot on my part
[19:39:47] <JymmmEMC> les_w: So does my gf.
[19:40:47] <les_w> congo actually hates it whenthey sleep with him. They wait till he is asleep then cuddle up
[19:40:52] <JymmmEMC> les_w: Having digital cameras are nice, but you can't really display all those pics. Thought it was great for the TV
[19:40:58] <les_w> then he wakes up later and gets mad
[19:41:10] <JymmmEMC> lol
[19:41:52] <les_w> he was just waking up there
[19:42:04] <les_w> he is so old that he sleeps like a log
[19:42:13] <JymmmEMC> heh, it's a great pic =)
[19:42:15] <les_w> hard to wake up
[19:42:21] <les_w> thanks
[19:43:47] <les_w> So what do you think about the house? it's period 1915, and I feel like I live in a museum
[19:44:56] <JymmmEMC> I like it.... stained glass, a throw rug... and not too dark wood trim. The light comign into the dining room I bet helps a lot
[19:45:09] <les_w> yeah
[19:45:53] <les_w> the rug is a tribal persian ardabil. All vegetable dyes!
[19:46:12] <JymmmEMC> Is that a drop ceiling?
[19:46:34] <les_w> stained glass is a FLW 1905 design.
[19:46:46] <les_w> no not a drop ceiling
[19:46:50] <les_w> 12 ft
[19:47:01] <les_w> the beams are structural...and new
[19:47:06] <JymmmEMC> Looks like thunderbird design staind glass
[19:47:33] <les_w> frank L Wright prarie school wheat motif
[19:47:36] <JymmmEMC> les_w: Ah, ok. I've never (personally) been fond of open ceiling beams, but that's just me.
[19:48:21] <les_w> well, I'm doing exact period arts and crafts...even if it's not my favorite
[19:48:32] <les_w> because that is what this house is
[19:48:37] <JymmmEMC> 12 foot?! No wonder your heating is so expensive =)
[19:48:47] <les_w> yeah
[19:49:17] <JymmmEMC> les_w: Have you thought about adding ceiling fans? REALLY makes a difference in the winter time (toss them on reverse)
[19:50:00] <les_w> I still have a sickley sofa to buy...but I am not paying $20k for an original
[19:50:16] <JymmmEMC> heh
[19:50:36] <JymmmEMC> les_w: Just dust off your cnc and make one!
[19:50:39] <les_w> fans work well, but not period. I just sealed and insulated the heck out of everything
[19:50:56] <les_w> exactly. Looks like I will do a run of them.
[19:51:40] <JymmmEMC> les_w: That be a nice way to break even on all the remodeling/furnishings
[19:51:46] <les_w> But you don't even need the cnc... arts and crafts designs are just al straight sticks
[19:52:28] <les_w> Well my cost per sofa is about $3000...most of that upholstery.
[19:52:37] <JymmmEMC> les_w: Eh, most of my furniture comes out of mold injection machine or inflates =)
[19:52:56] <JymmmEMC> (kidding)
[19:53:10] <JymmmEMC> but not by much
[19:53:29] <les_w> well yeah mine too...this is the first period resoration I have done.
[19:53:48] <les_w> The music romm and kitchen are not period though
[19:54:08] <les_w> room
[19:54:09] <JymmmEMC> les_w: Ah. Hopefully lots of SS in the kitchen
[19:54:16] <les_w> yup
[19:54:29] <JymmmEMC> Nothing beats a commercial stove
[19:55:04] <JymmmEMC> 50,000 BTU's baby!
[19:55:13] <les_w> just did it up in Chief Architect. Kool program. 3-D virtual walkthroughs
[19:55:54] <les_w> emc wil be doing dovetails heh
[19:56:12] <JymmmEMC> heh
[19:56:45] <JymmmEMC> Spekaing of thunderbird... I need to got on the other computer and email work that I'm not coming in tonight. bbiab
[19:58:39] <les_w> ok
[19:58:56] <les_w> oh, virtual kitchen on imagebin
[19:59:27] <les_w> I'll do trim mowing on the course.
[20:01:24] <les_w> That will be the first emc machined kitchen i'll bet
[20:21:39] <LawrenceG> les_w: watching cnn.... man youare toasty down there.... Its cold up here.... only around 70
[20:30:05] <Skullworks-PGAB> hmm - I just got the ballot email...
[20:30:23] <cradek> yay!
[20:55:33] <les_w> lawrence:
[20:55:42] <les_w> yeah pretty hot
[20:55:51] <LawrenceG> ballot arrived here as well.... anyone need to buy a vote? wealth and fame can be yours :}
[20:55:56] <les_w> cooler at the house dur to the altitude.
[20:56:06] <les_w> haha
[20:56:40] <les_w> oh no. all that mowing...and all the bud light is warm! Forgot to put it in the frige.
[20:56:50] <les_w> no lawn mower beer/water.
[20:56:58] <LawrenceG> les_w: rats....
[20:57:20] <les_w> well cool water for now.
[20:58:03] <LawrenceG> les_w: It has been very busy up here... just finishing a major house reno.... new siding, windows, soffits, gutters, paint... still kitchen counters to go
[21:00:05] <les_w> you too huh?
[21:01:02] <les_w> I am using the chief architect software to do virtual walkthroughs
[21:01:05] <les_w> neat
[21:01:22] <LawrenceG> yes... it needed to be done before the winter monsoons.. had some leaky siding that was causing studs and plates to rot
[21:01:25] <les_w> it a lower end "home" version but still ok
[21:01:39] <LawrenceG> cool.....
[21:02:12] <les_w> have a look at my kitchen plan and other house pics...search les on imagebin.org
[21:02:38] <les_w> I think a chief architect rendering is there
[21:04:48] <LawrenceG> http://imagebin.org/9877 that looks like a kitchen
[21:05:21] <les_w> yeah that's it
[21:05:43] <les_w> a couple pics back is a snap of the completed rooms
[21:06:14] <LawrenceG> nice.... also the catand chicken..... I like the golf course shot
[21:07:11] <les_w> I want to capture a frame, move the camera, capture another, put in stereoscopic viewer
[21:07:20] <les_w> of chief archetect
[21:07:36] <les_w> I just mowed the course
[21:08:07] <LawrenceG> http://imagebin.org/9875 ... looks nice and green for August
[21:08:25] <les_w> the other shot is the living /dining room. the thing on the chimney stone was emc carved
[21:08:58] <les_w> grass is going dormant now from the heat
[21:09:15] <les_w> in places
[21:10:01] <LawrenceG> yeah grass here has pretty much gone crunchy, but the weeds are still happy
[21:10:20] <LawrenceG> light showers the last few days
[21:10:39] <les_w> I used a dwarf tall fescue in the fairways. It is a cool season grass.
[21:12:29] <LawrenceG> I seeded with a mixed pasture mix... figured the grass that liked it the best would eventually rule the lawn
[21:12:51] <les_w> right
[21:12:52] <dmessier> High all
[21:13:09] <LawrenceG> hello toronto
[21:13:16] <les_w> well I kind of have a monoculture...but it does not stay that way long
[21:13:25] <les_w> hi dmess
[21:13:31] <dmessier> ours is all brown...
[21:13:46] <les_w> ? what species?
[21:14:36] <dmessier> mixed stuff too... but this summer COOKED it all.. doesnt matter our streets are all brown grass lined
[21:14:43] <LawrenceG> crabius grassius?
[21:14:53] <alex_joni> crapius grassus
[21:14:55] <les_w> we had a spring drought
[21:15:19] <les_w> but this is supposed to be a temperate rain forest
[21:15:22] <dmessier> we went 29 days then got 3 hrs a rain...
[21:15:33] <les_w> wow
[21:15:44] <dmessier> and another 23 days or so..
[21:16:07] <dmessier> nice summer.. but everything is tinder dry...
[21:16:22] <les_w> spring was as bad here
[21:16:47] <dmessier> trailer in the back yard burned up the othernite.. and my son apparently knows nothing about it..
[21:17:04] <les_w> now thunder every day ...but not yet today
[21:17:06] <les_w> really
[21:17:10] <dmessier> had the front end of my '54 chevy pick-up in it.
[21:17:22] <les_w> oooh
[21:17:27] <dmessier> and 5 tire..
[21:17:28] <dmessier> s
[21:17:34] <les_w> yuvk
[21:17:40] <les_w> yuk
[21:17:56] <dmessier> everyting is twisted to rat shit... but clean of all fiberglass
[21:18:05] <les_w> say, have you ever been in a sailplane?
[21:18:12] <dmessier> yes...
[21:18:16] <les_w> fun?
[21:18:28] <dmessier> wow.. yeah.. with a good pilot..
[21:18:45] <les_w> I was thinking of getting the extra rating
[21:18:59] <les_w> 20 hrs min or something
[21:19:02] <dmessier> landing speed is honking for a hang & para guy... with very little options..
[21:19:49] <dmessier> but thermaling them thins.. is stuff wet dreams are made of
[21:20:07] <les_w> I may just try it
[21:20:42] <dmessier> $$
[21:20:50] <les_w> Now I have been in gliders....
[21:21:06] <les_w> a piper archer with a dead engine haha
[21:21:18] <dmessier> how are you distinguishing glider - sailplane??
[21:21:34] <dmessier> dead stick landings... LOL
[21:21:47] <les_w> well the archer was about 8:1...but I made the field
[21:22:02] <les_w> got rid of flaps fast
[21:22:16] <dmessier> thats pretty good for having an engine in the front NOT working
[21:22:52] <les_w> was not hard...powered back on downwind to base...lost it than
[21:23:19] <les_w> I was less than a mile out
[21:23:26] <les_w> 800 agl
[21:23:26] <dmessier> already set up... if it has to happen thats where you want it to
[21:23:33] <les_w> right
[21:23:55] <dmessier> did you tell them you were just practicing??
[21:24:15] <les_w> it was nothing really..just a normal zero flap landing
[21:24:22] <dmessier> 1st question... did you attempt a restart??
[21:24:25] <les_w> I even had to slip a little
[21:24:32] <LawrenceG> les_w: some pics of reno... http://imagebin.org/9881 and 9880,9879,9878
[21:24:40] <les_w> no I did not
[21:24:49] <dmessier> good choice..
[21:24:57] <les_w> did not even know it for 5 or ten sec...no time
[21:25:03] <les_w> looking lawrence
[21:25:09] <dmessier> many would have lost situationa awareness trying to restart..
[21:25:24] <les_w> I was on the ground in 45 seconds
[21:25:35] <dmessier> beautiful
[21:25:52] <dmessier> new set a drawers and alls well.. ; )
[21:26:33] <les_w> haha
[21:27:03] <les_w> lawrence...nice house...WHAT A VIEW!
[21:28:01] <LawrenceG> yea... right on the beach... looks northeast, so all the scenery is lit up by the sunsets
[21:28:08] <les_w> wow
[21:28:15] <dmessier> our western ontario hg club has joined a sailplane club.. and they have been using the s/p as thermal markers and flying 150 kn out and returns.. quite regularily..
[21:28:35] <les_w> your place is mch nicer than mine I think
[21:29:20] <les_w> Well II thought I might try it....powered planes are not much good for travel anyway
[21:29:23] <les_w> just toys
[21:29:25] <dmessier> what body of water is that thru the window>>
[21:30:13] <LawrenceG> thanks... it is hard to leave here...... that is the pacific ocean between Vancouver Island and the mainland
[21:30:54] <dmessier> shite... dont leave there man... if you do can i have 1st dibbs on your place???
[21:31:18] <dmessier> can i have it when ya die??
[21:31:41] <les_w> leaving lawrence?
[21:32:29] <LawrenceG> http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=ve7it&ie=UTF8&ll=49.32736,-124.195633&spn=2.169524,3.466187&z=8&om=1 I am about where the hwy 19 sign is
[21:32:56] <LawrenceG> no... dont even leave for holidays!
[21:33:28] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:33:39] <dmessier> 'nite alex
[21:33:42] <les_w> night alex
[21:33:49] <LawrenceG> ciao alex
[21:34:00] <alex_joni> don't forget to vote y'all
[21:34:12] <dmessier> for who??
[21:34:23] <les_w> I must go to town for cookout stuff...The only kitchen I have is virtual
[21:34:29] <les_w> be back in a few
[21:34:35] <alex_joni> dmessier: if you would have been subscribed to the emc mailing list.. you would have known
[21:34:40] <alex_joni> :P
[21:34:41] <LawrenceG> good hunting les
[21:35:38] <dmessier> road kill stew... yumm
[21:36:02] <LawrenceG> possum meat balls....
[21:36:23] <dmessier> nice big water Lawrence... you have a nice big boat??
[21:36:55] <dmessier> porqupine soup..
[21:37:11] <dmessier> pretty windy there??
[21:38:06] <LawrenceG> well... a couple of kayaks.... I get sea sick even on the ferries!
[21:39:28] <dmessier> oh... that sucks... i have white water yak only...but have handled biger ruf water for a short period...
[21:41:23] <dmessier> how long does it take you to get to Van.
[21:41:37] <dmessier> with a car... ferries and all.
[21:46:36] <JymmmEMC> Alrighty folks.. gonna bomb the garage now
[21:46:44] <JymmmEMC> damn spiders!
[21:47:02] <JymmmEMC> and dont forget to turn off the water heater pilot light =)
[21:59:37] <LawrenceG> dmessier: about 3 hours (1/2 hour to ferry, 1.5hour ferry ride, then into Vancouver area)
[22:00:02] <dmessier> whats the wait/chance at the ferry??
[22:00:45] <dmessier> i had a bad ferry experience last weekend.. to manitoulin island from tobomory..
[22:01:13] <dmessier> but it WAS the long weekend.. and all
[22:02:13] <dmessier> i have a 6 hr drive ahead of me tonite.... gotta attend a viewing tomorrow... small sandwiches and everything... ; (
[22:04:25] <LawrenceG> summer is a bad time.... usually a 1 sailing wait.... 1.5-2 hours... one can make a res for an extra $17
[22:05:31] <dmessier> yeah.. i waited 2 sailings on the way there...but they only res so much of the boat..
[22:06:07] <dmessier> 4 hrs between boats... only 1 boat
[22:06:24] <LawrenceG> yea... I have had a few close calls when trying to make International flights out of Vancouver.... I have had to take a float plane several times
[22:06:29] <a-l-p-h-a> I voted, now where's my free usb key you guys promised? :)
[22:07:23] <dmessier> there's an option?? what did it cost??
[22:07:33] <LawrenceG> hey... a-l-p-h-a ... I got mine
[22:08:12] <LawrenceG> plane is only $50 one way from Nanimo harbour to Vancouver harbour
[22:08:35] <LawrenceG> cheaper than parking!
[22:08:37] <dmessier> not so bal Law
[22:08:40] <dmessier> bad
[22:08:49] <dmessier> yeah..
[22:13:13] <dmessier> bbl
[22:13:28] <fenn> did this last night: http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/irc/emc-chips.png
[22:13:44] <les_w> beef tenderloin was $11/lb!!! are prices in your areas that high?
[22:14:20] <LawrenceG> tux chips... cool
[22:14:40] <fenn> "chips the penguin" is his name you see
[22:14:49] <skunkworks> fenn: you should be milling the penguin also - or would that be morbid?
[22:14:58] <LawrenceG> les_w: I leave the shopping to Linda
[22:15:25] <les_w> I might as well marinate $10 bills and cook em on the grill
[22:15:30] <fenn> is it obvious that it says something?
[22:16:09] <LawrenceG> now I see it.... not obvious
[22:16:56] <les_w> I saw the emc but it took about 10 seconds
[22:17:16] <LawrenceG> les_w: roast chicken going in the oven soon at this end of the country
[22:17:48] <LawrenceG> had BBQ pork chops last night
[22:17:53] <les_w> well I just got ground beast...i'm not paying $11/lb
[22:18:36] <LawrenceG> burgers are great.... a few hickory chips on the grill
[22:19:20] <les_w> I still use cherry emc scraps
[22:19:32] <les_w> I have a couple thousand pounds of them
[22:21:37] <les_w> lots of oak scraps too from the house too
[22:22:08] <LawrenceG> hmmm... never tried cherry.... can you fedex me a burger?
[22:22:17] <les_w> every board losed 6 inches from planer snipe at the end
[22:22:42] <les_w> cherry or any fruitwood is great
[22:22:56] <les_w> I use just wood...no charcoal
[22:23:28] <LawrenceG> we use alder here as it grows like a weed and is easy to grab a piece from the firewood pile
[22:23:41] <les_w> right
[22:23:49] <LawrenceG> I use it for smoking salmon as well
[22:24:58] <LawrenceG> It is prime blackberry season here... every night when I walk the dog, I get blackberries off the vine for desert!
[22:25:07] <les_w> <pavlovian reponse>
[22:25:19] <les_w> blackberries are done here
[22:25:48] <LawrenceG> just have to watch out for the ones below waist height.... there are some big dogs in the neigbourhood
[22:26:31] <les_w> that brush on the left side of the golf course pic...all blackberries
[22:26:51] <les_w> I was going to bushog the canes down but too late
[22:27:07] <les_w> too many yellow jacket/ hornet nests
[22:27:35] <LawrenceG> makes a nice fence.... nobody messes with BB ( or hornets for that matter )
[22:27:42] <les_w> I allready got nailed once this summer... 10- 20 stings
[22:27:50] <les_w> got pretty sick.
[22:27:56] <LawrenceG> ouch
[22:28:30] <LawrenceG> it has been a low hornet season here.... not hot enough
[22:28:45] <les_w> I pulled off a window casing....yellowjacket nest filling the weight cavity
[22:28:58] <les_w> so it was inside the house!
[22:30:12] <LawrenceG> nasty.... no place to hide.... during the reno, we ran into some good sized carpenter ant nests living in the styrofoam insulation
[22:30:46] <LawrenceG> luckily, they didnt have a taste for the fir framing
[22:30:49] <les_w> demo is something...I had never done it before
[22:30:54] <les_w> what a mess
[22:31:04] <les_w> all the rooms stripped to studs
[22:31:21] <LawrenceG> its the best part!... all kinds of surprises
[22:31:35] <les_w> yeah...like cut headers
[22:31:44] <les_w> from moving doors
[22:32:03] <LawrenceG> sawsall and a big hammer are your friends
[22:32:10] <les_w> yup
[22:32:45] <les_w> I redid several supporting walls
[22:33:26] <les_w> calculated beams and headers even though I am not a structural engineer
[22:33:42] <les_w> but hey we all take statics!
[22:35:09] <LawrenceG> not hard.... most framing here is just out of the building code tables. statics was a very fun course... got me interested in engineering
[22:35:33] <les_w> we have no code here anyway...but I build to strict code
[22:35:56] <les_w> statics was the weedout course at my school
[22:36:50] <les_w> it had a 60%drop rate
[22:37:14] <les_w> it was not hard technically but you had to be fast fast fast
[22:38:20] <les_w> we had only 4 banger calculators
[22:38:36] <les_w> Iwonder what they do now?
[22:40:31] <LawrenceG> Looks like there will be some statics and metallurgy being done in Minnesota
[22:40:45] <les_w> I remember on tests you could not use cramer's rule on truss systems
[22:40:48] <les_w> no time
[22:40:54] <les_w> oh yeah
[22:41:04] <les_w> what's your guess?
[22:41:30] <LawrenceG> rusty rebar
[22:41:46] <les_w> I say shear failure on the bottom center span
[22:42:11] <les_w> boltd rivets or plates
[22:42:43] <les_w> bolts
[22:42:48] <LawrenceG> could be rusty rivets/plates
[22:42:53] <les_w> yeah
[22:44:19] <les_w> well I had to put in the beams and headers then jack up the wall
[22:44:34] <les_w> I stopped at 1/44 center deflection
[22:44:45] <les_w> oop
[22:44:49] <les_w> 1/400
[22:45:30] <les_w> I have to check the kitchen before I button it up
[22:45:48] <les_w> it will prob creep up to 1/200 or something
[22:46:36] <les_w> that's where headers had been cut
[22:48:47] <les_w> well, guess I'll start the cherry fire
[22:48:56] <les_w> since you pavloved me
[22:49:13] <les_w> later!
[22:49:24] <LawrenceG> good one.... just talking on 3729khz
[22:49:32] <les_w> cool
[22:49:37] <les_w> later
[22:50:03] <LawrenceG> cheers
[22:57:49] <toast_> bzzzz
[23:14:47] <toast_> man the deli near me makes delicious sandwiches
[23:15:01] <toast_> i had orange chicken and sushi at work the other day
[23:15:04] <toast_> man that was a good day
[23:15:21] <skunkworks> don't let the food own you.... ;)
[23:15:30] <toast_> reading "holes, locations, and surfaces" while drinking tea, eating sushi, and running a diamond turning lathe
[23:15:38] <toast_> i do not have a bad job
[23:16:02] <toast_> er holes, contours, and surfaces