you can run it 9000 sfm or 1 sfh
what kinda chuck??
it's a faceplate, machined on the lathe
i understand sfm..
i'm not saying you don't, i'm just saying it doesn't matter on diamond tools
but part ISN flat to start with...
the lathe runs at a constant 300 rpm
it takes .0001" or .0002" depth of cut passes, at like .0005 per rev
rapid is like 5 ipm
do you flip and repeat??
over and over??
we do kinematic mounting the first two times
trade speed for resolution..
two or three
then we mount it via elastic averaging
and because we load it vertically, instead of horizontally
the stress and heat of holding the part to the spindle
warps it during mounting
if we could mount it horizontally, make sure it wasn't stressed, then let the heat settle out
it would be fine
it's a .630 thick
hmmmm.. sonds hairy...
so it boinks when you start cutting it..
no, the cutting is butter smooth
it's flat until you unclamp it
do you stress relieve it at any point
well actually yes
getting the company to do anything different for a part that makes it in tolerance
isn't gonna happen
boil a part in water for 1/2 hour
i can't steal a five thousand dollar part without someone noticing to try and boil it =(
throw it outside for a day... and night cycle..??
i'm pretty sure it's not unstable
i mean, i'm sure it is
but not enough to do what's going on
because i can put the part back up on the lathe
but if it makes ALL the next 5000 dollar parts EASY to make... your the hero....
what is the part for?
they're in tolerance NOW
1 letter from ZERO though,,, be carefull..
from hero to zero
i saved a part like that last summer on PRINCE EDWARD Island
but i'm turning these out faster than they thought they could, and my manager is very happy with how i'm doing it
zero scrap, no scratches or surface blemishes
it's just ME that wants them perfect =(
ride the RIVER.... ; )
it's good I have a boss who is sane
or i would get nothing done
if it aint broke... dont FIX it
could you flex the metal the other direction... then cut it, and when you unclamp... have it flex back to shape?
i have a 25 yr program.. ive settled down.. and ppl ask.. HOW...
Ziegler: the problem is that we hold it in screws initially
and the screws are not really "locating devices"
so they bite on one side of the hole or the other
depending on how you're holding it to the chuck
have you tried the low melt allow fillers... to fill the ring into a disk??
wh..why would i do that
like, i know exactly what is going wrong and why
toast have you tried sedatives?
to let the ring set in the free state
fenn: for me or the faceplate
no, i still think about accuracy constantly
i actually have problems falling asleep thinking about it
self medication with recreational pharm's.. always worked in our shop
with sedatives i go from "oh man we should build toroidal chucks"
dont stress yur self if your in spec...
to "hey mannnn, you know? we should totally build some, you know, toroidal chucks."
HAVE see harold and Kumar..LOL
pew pew pew
also guys i apologize for being all "rar accuracy" all the time
i'm really not trying to suggest everone needs diamond turning machines, i just like discussing stuff
different approaches to things.
seems like the best recipe for a farty customer like nc_cams is to sell him a box with emc in it, just dont tell him it's emc
just show them it works... and CAN talk to anything.. from another cnc to a plc... ; )
what typ of cams??
the power of suggestion!
multiple wheels..and all the good stuff.. :0
mechanical screw machine cams... MORE fun
they run at warp (not so ) stupid all day long...
jmkasunich_ is now known as jmkasunich
I made the front page of the (local weekly) paper
they printed my photo of the gas line fire
so you're rich now?
(with credit I hope?)
"photo contributed by" underneath
the car was driven by a 17 year old girl (fortunately not seriously hurt)
I bet she was on a cell phone
seat belt, I hope
yeah, and/or airbag
the ~ 17 yr olds that ran into me didn't have seat belts on
they got a ride to the hospital out of it
did not make my day at all.
I can imagine
how bad did it bust your car (or you)?
I think they were ok, but only by luck (they both hit the dash with their faces)
I was fine, car cost many $k
speaking of cars, how's the chev?
it was about '94, I still remember it like yesterday
with patience (liquid wrench + jiggling for several days) the valves loosened up
did you figure out the cause, or do you just have theories?
I very painstakingly bent the pushrods back into straight lines and put it all back together
no definitive cause unfortunately. the oil supply on the rockers was fine.
so you're gonna cringe every time you go to start it
I was lazy about putting the lead replacer in the gas. maybe it really needs it in every tank.
yeah no kidding. it's ok so far.
I should sell it while it's running so nice :-)
you are honest enough that you'd wind up telling the potential buyer about the valves anyway
lately I've been tempted to paint it
not sure what
maybe black with a white roof, like a 50s police car
black with flames!
haha, no thanks
flames would make it go faster, right?
sure are a lot of emc2 videos on youtube now
I should make some more lathe videos, I have a camera for it now
I hate surgery... hurry up and wait all damn day!
10000 pulses per revolution !?
that seems a bit extreme
(Kirk Wallace's e-mail)
hey anyone have the X2?
good night guys
cradek: Are you at your keyboard? Have some questions on the L297/L298 board you use.
does somebody else use the "pminmo" L297/L298 stepper driver board, please? I used its wiring in all important parts, but it is nearly impossible to adjust the current. A very small turn on the trimmer, and the current goes to "ungerulated" on my board.
would like to know if this is "normal".
but I dont have a one of those boards
Hi! Yes, it is. I just burned a complete L297/298 pair by accidently turning a little bit too much to the right. :-/ With 40V and 25000uF this allows so infinite current that the IC exploded.
Which drivers do you use?
Geckodrive would be a fine choice, but is too expensive for my taste.
... and needs.
where is the trimpot wired between 16 and 12 L297?
or pin 15
? The trimpot's min = ground, trimpot's max goes through a 3.3k resistor to +5V. Trimmpot is 1k. Trimmpot goes to pin 15.
pin 15 spec is 0 to 3V max
That's ok. Because the trimmpot is the lower part of a voltage divider 3.3k / 1k, I cannot exceed 3V.
But I am somewhere around 0.xx volts!
and that pin sets current, maybe the osc frequency is off a bit so cant control
I use the RC chain as recommended: 22k from +5V to a 3.3nF capacitor.
Well Pminmo uses 51k and 1nF instead...
Which boards do you use, archivist?
none currently, im reading the SGS databook
some plans for self buildig?
which IC's ate you planning to use?
have not decided
do you think that it helps when I use 51k/1nF instead of 22k/3.3nF? Actually, the chopping frequency will become higher, if I understand right. (is the chopping freq. 1/(r x c) ?
If so, PMinmo is close to 19.6 kHz, while I am around 13.7 kHz.
argh. stupid british keyboards
err - hi
* archivist hugs british layout
at least I can directly type the £ and 20ac symbols though
what's the little horizontal line with the down-tick at the right?
(top left key, shifted)
how long are you over here
right - what is it for?
we leave Monday morning
dunno I never use it
toast: +/- 0.0127mm
toast: funny how the sensor is 0.00005" and the +/- of the mechanism is 0.0127mm
see you later. time's up
jepler: Is your scope working for you?
Guest776 is now known as skunkworks_
skunkworks_: haven't touched it since the first day, but it seems to work
skunkworks_: did you see me say I think it shows a pluto-step bug though?
no - what is that?
skunkworks_: my test involved always stepping at the maximum rate but reversing direction. Sometimes after the reversal, the step pulse spends twice the normal time "high" -- probably indicating that it stepped twice without an intervening "low" time
skunkworks_: but I haven't gotten around to debugging it further
interesting. I am sure you will figure it out. Or ditch it and go with the mesa equivilant ;)
I have some idea of what it might be
probably this bug would never show its face in normal usage -- it seems tied to reversing quickly with unlimited acceleration
ah good -- I've gotten the pluto-step problem to show up in verilog simulation
So - your scope isn't wrong ;)
I didn't think it was
sometimes people hope.. even though in the back of their mind they know it is right..
[13:41:49] <jepler> http://pastebin.ca/652361
was it what you think it was?
your 'I have an idea'
I still haven't quite made sense of it
during direction changes, the "position" counter is frozen -- normally, velocity is added to it every cycle
in the most general terms, what is happening is that the "position" counter is not being frozen at all the right times
so with that understanding, I know that if you're going at much less than top speed just after a reversal, the expected space between step pulses will be much bigger so even if they come a little closer together than they should after a direction change, they'll still be within the timing constraints of the drive
no, the bug's worse than that :(
well, I guess I know what I'm doing this weekend
your such a trooper. :)
plan B involves simply removing pluto-step and calling it a bad idea
now it looks like the "double step pulse" is one step that should have been issued before the dir change and one step that should have been issued right after
I've found a way to make it keep issuing steps in one direction (looking at S&D outputs) but reports that the position is still within 1 step of the starting position (looking at position output)
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_step_firmware/test_stepgen.v: useful test driver for pluto step generator
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_step_firmware/stepgen.v:
fixes "extra step" problems observed on scope and in test_stepgen runs
-- have not rebuilt firmware based on this change
so the fix is "do not change direction while there is a pending step" and "do not step when there is a pending direction change" -- hopefully the next bug I discover will not be a way to get a pending direction change and a pending step at the same time
steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
would 172.3k be the correct resistor size for 5.5 amps on a gecko stepper drive
I don't know how you calculate that - as the resister table isn't linear. Does he have any more info on his site?
the formula was 47*I/(7-I)
R (in kilo-ohms) = 47 * I / (7 2013 I)
bought a pack of 174k 1% 1/4w resistors at the store,was wondering if i got the right ones
I got 172.3 also.
I would think 174 would work just fine.
that would be 5.51a
close enough for me ;)
just got a pacsi stepper working,dont wanna cook it
jlmjvm: I get the same figures as you and skunkworks_
174+1% would give 5.52A though
i can get some 164k if i need to
will .02a extra cause motor damage
percentage olerload like that is small
hmm somebody has overdosed on something again
archivist: Yeah, yeah, your just jealous cause nobody's ever excited to see you is all ;)
Damn, this is sad... http://www.marvac.com/news.aspx
NTE Cross-Refernce Software http://www.nteinc.com/qc13/
[16:25:08] <JymmmEMC> http://www.marvac.com/fun/power.aspx
NOTE: Win95 users may experience an "Unable to Access Program Manager" error message. Click on "Cancel" and continue
#classiccmp is just down the hall
skunkworks "A Ducumented Feature" =)
Trivia (no cheating/googling).... What does BNC stand for?
Round Network Connector
well before networks
oBsolete Network Connector
And the answer is....
BNC (Bayonet Neill Concelman) Invented by and named after Amphenol Engineer Carl Concelman and Bell Labs Engineer Paul Neill and was developed in the late 1940's.
"Different sources expand BNC as Bayonet Navy Connector, British Naval Connector, Bayonet Neill Concelman, or Bayonet Nut Connection."
I think what we have here is a nut connection..
Ok, now TNC???
TNC (Threaded Neill Concelman) Invented by and named after Amphenol Engineer Carl Concelman and Bell Labs Engineer Paul Neill and was developed in the late 1950's.
quit loading cisco's via the channel :P
you never done ciscos?
oh n/m then
steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
NOW thru August 31st!!! All customers receive the 1,000 piece pricing!
[17:13:22] <skunkworks_> http://www.geckodrive.com/
that is quite a bit off.
Heh, I guess Marriss DID listen to me when I asked when they will be going on-sale back in May and the pricing for the 203v was all $147 no matter the qty.
Most don't think a $1/mo is all that big of a deal, but when you look at 12 to 24 months out, it adds up. $7.95/mo @ 12months = $95.40, $6.95/mo @ 24months = $166.80
($1 discount @ 24mo)
anyone know of a schematic for a "sign+magnitude" PWM to +-10V analog converter? I can't quite imagine how that works. Does an analog MUX select one of the PWM analog voltage or its inverse from an inverting amplifier?
(by "PWM analog voltage" I mean the output of an RC filter on the PWM input)
isn't that a lot like a scaled up version of an RC servo control?
no, the PWM method of controlling servo motors for CNC is quite different than "RC servos"
no, I mean for the PWM to 10V thing you asked about
I must not be asking my question very well, then
weren't you asking for schematics for a PWM to VFD driver (essentially)? VFDs seems to all want +/-10V for speed control
your wondering how the circuit works to take a dir+pwm and convet it to +/-10v?
right, but RC servos don't take a "sign+magnitude" aka "dir+pwm" signal
Ohhhh I interpreted what you said differently
they just take 50% mark space as 0
cuz the 50% PWM == 0 so you impliclty have a sign
hence sign+mag =)
we are talking 2 pins sign, mag
or pwm, direction
didn't help that I am thinking about the differnet ways to control the spindle on a lathe ;)
Im contemplating the error step in voltage at the sign change
* skunkworks_ doesn't normally think that hard
set incorrectly it could be large
hmm a setup mode, set a square wave on the dir pin 0 on the pwm pin and adjust for zero output
in the scheme I proposed, if your digital logic has Vol=0.4v and Voh=2.4 (TTL), you must use gain 4 to get a final output voltage of up to +-9.6V, but now how do you reach within 1.6v of 0v?
some offsets and gain adjustments
but digital ouputs are not designed for analogue stability in their levels
you mean in that the output voltage depends strongly on the current
but most of the time its in a loop so doesnt matter
I like the 50% mark space =0
then electonics can detect real 0 and switch the direction
if its ac coupled the (filtered) the absolute dc offset from the logic is removed only the opamp dc has to be adjusted
03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tests/ccomp/lathe-comp/test.var: repair these tests for now (UVW in sai still not fully completed)
03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tests/ccomp/mill-g90g91g92/test.var: repair these tests for now (UVW in sai still not fully completed)
03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tests/ccomp/mill-zchanges/test.var: repair these tests for now (UVW in sai still not fully completed)
03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tests/ccomp/mill-line-arc-entry/test.var: repair these tests for now (UVW in sai still not fully completed)
then a clean directional switch could be..... possible circuit is filter to A input of a multiplier and B input from dir as +1,-1 (will need stabilizing) then output is +-
I forgot that place Jymm said to go for rack and pinion
mcmaster or something
[20:17:55] <Unit41> http://www.smallparts.com/products/descriptions/grs.cfm
Carbon Steel Rack - 20º and 14-1/2º Pressure Angle 00-----00 what would be better
I had some issues with axis today, couldn't get run from next line to work. How is it supposed to work?
20 deg or the 14-1/2
gah, why is rack and pinion so expensive
its fucking bar with teeth on it
2 feet for 20 bux
thats a rip off
lerneaen_hydra: looking at the "splash g-code", scroll down to line 58 "G00 Z #1" and click it. The line turns blue. Choose Machine > Set next line, then Machine > Run (or press "r").
lerneaen_hydra: the program will be run and start by milling the "M"
that's exactly what I did
except that it started from the start of the program
[20:25:54] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/setnextline.png
Anyone know a good how to on filesharing b/t feisty and XP?
jepler: most strange
jepler: btw, what's the new button to the right of perspective view?
lerneaen_hydra: it makes button 1 do rotate instead of translate
one use is on touchscreen systems..
jepler: I can't seem to see why I couldn't get set next line to work
oh, yeah, that's very true
any idea as to a simple reason as to why set next line didn't work?
where is the best place to get rack and pinion ?
or anywhere im desperate
nick one off a car
that way you'll surely get one of the right size
for a car
I just wana give up and masterbate but I've been doing that for too long
[20:33:51] <archivist> http://www.hpcgears.com/
they make as well
only 30 miles from here
what kind of length is 500 ?
those are some screwy units
I want that rubber rack
lerneaen_hydra: no, nothing comes to mind. I'd test with 2.1 but I don't have it installed anywhere handy ..
jepler: hmm I see
do you know if anyone else has 2.1?
btw, how are G20/21, G94/95 handled?
do the old values stick?
I'm not sure
spindle is another thing I'd wonder about
hmm I see
archivist if you pickup some good flexible rack for me, I'll paypal you the money + extra
yeah, or whether it's turning at all
since you skipped over the M3 line after all
seems to me the most safe thing to do would be to read through the whole file, applying modal settings while going through it
Unit41, get them to post straight to you
essentially doing the part, except without moving
can I get a roll of any length ?
and then once the selected line is reached motion starts again
how much is the big teeth stuff per foot I wonder
im looking at the pdf
its in pounds and confuses the crap out of me
£1 -$2 us
is the pound that low today?
oh, 2x sounds more reasonable
2.02 I think
but near enough
1 U.S. dollar = 0.491908112 British pounds
jepler: you use the program 'units', right?
do you know how to update the currency tables?
dpkg -L units
pick the right file
cradek: I was thinking of an automagic update
I don't think units is a good choice to convert between units that change :-/
heh, true, pi doesn't change too often
how do you do british pounds in units?
length of a sidereal day
I wonder if units can deal with barn in acre
2.4710439e-32 acres per barn?
what's a barn?
or do I even want to know
a unit of area
about the size of a proton or something
err, how large?
oh, right, that scale
I was thinking it was some archaic imperial unit
its 10 -24 square meter or a barn door to an electron
hence the name
why not yottameter?
then again, barn rolls off the tongue more easily
cradek: you're not running a 2.1 setup by any chance?
lerneaen_hydra: yoctometer^2 = 1e-48 so picometer^2 = 1e-24
fenn: hmm I was thinking yotta(meter^2)
i dont see how barn is any better than pm^2
barn was a unit named during the cold war
did physicists not use SI in that time??
I cant remember when SI really got going
re: way earlier
that's lvdt's for you
(the camshaft thing/resolution vs accuracy)
toast: mechanical accuracy, too
toast: if you have a +/- error of 0.01 no matter what you do... you are better off with a 1um linear scale. :)
except lvdts are cheap, i guess
or even a rotary encoder..
though you end up with other problems..
but well, hobbyists shouldnt have the same equipment as the pro's..
it's like trying to compete with your dt lathes ;)
nah, if a hobbyist sets out to do a thing affordably these days
it's quite possible
toast: yep, that was the whole issue with the cam stuff..
good cheap quick
I think the main problem is understanding the numbers anyway..
i'm not really sure what he means by understanding the numbers
how ramps/cam dynamics affect the engine
why do they still use cams?
fenn: because there isnt a option to them
for a race car?
they use air springs and cams in race cars
mass of the valve and spring.....
that's old stuff.
pneumatic ones ;)
i'd think a solenoid would give you the best control
toast: I'd like to build thoose
nice and simple mathematical model
fenn: that's been done before.. it dosent work..
fenn: the problem is the forces involved in opening an closing the valve
compared with the available power in a race car
500+hp isnt enuf eh
how do you intend to turn that power into current
the alternators they use are miniscule
water cooled alternator?
err and how are you going to handle the heat?
or well, fit a coil that will handle that kind of power..
dont tell me hydraulics is more efficient than alternator/solenoid
one dude recently made a servohydraulic system that worked
i don't think it's out of the prototype stage, i haven't been keeping up with it
fenn: it dosent work, well, yet..
do race cars have to use 12V for any particular reason?
fenn: there are several manufacturers working on it..
most equipment are standardized to 12v..
there are 48 volt cars
12 or 24v
well the more volts the better
nothing in a race car is standard if they don't want it to be, is my point
toast: well, at sane levels :P
unless it's a hobbyist car
yeah, then i agree, 12 volt is going to be what you're stuck with
dc-dc converter can give you whatever you want wherever you want
thats not remotely the point..
what would you do with a 120v line if none of your gear runs on that
fenn: so, build a better system..
fenn: cams do work, other stuff dosent yet..
you're going to have to work hard to beat cams and air springs
they're good to 40k rpm
unlimited rpm and no float..
i'm not going to use a stupid piston engine anyway
and if you get float you turn up the pressure
fenn: while rotary valves and all are cool..
fenn: how do you seal them?
a round ball with a hole through that has one side exposed do combustion pressure/heat
heh get some ball valves from home depot
fenn: to get the seal you need them really precise..
srsly ball valves
[22:21:01] <Ziegler> http://images.google.com/imagelabeler/
saw an emc picture in that game
poor substitute for AI
toast: I'd love to make a set of pneumatic springs
fenn: well, we all have our interests
tesla's bucket valve thing seemed like a good idea
no moving parts
[22:26:30] <fenn> http://www.mne.psu.edu/me415/fall04/APC2/
how does that work with low input pressure and high reverse high pressure?
it was intended for use in a gas turbine
hi guys. bucket valve is neat!
you mix air and natural gas in a combustion chamber, explode it, and the valvular conduit has high reverse impedance
so the expanding gases have to exit through the turbine nozzle and spin the turbine
no moving parts pulsejet!
only works at relatively high frequency
fenn: well, that dosent work for normal ic engines :)
pulsejet works on the fact that air is drawn into a tube from all directions but only expelled in one direction
I have seen many pulsejet videos on youtube. What noisemakers!
anonimasu: sure it does, just need to get the rpm up
oh yeah, how stupid of me :)
more like a two-stroke engin
pulsejet+compressor I guess
oops minus compressor
but exaust turbine
* skunkworks started building a pulse jet in grade school
used reed valves
never finished it.
noisemaker + slight side effect of thrust
if you call delivering bombs across the english channel a slight side effect..
atleast you could hear them coming'
unlike the next generation
supersonic pulsejet :D
quick patent it!
right...v2 was supersonic...just sudden boom out of nowhere
how the heck is there only 2 google hits for supersonic pulsejet
the hobbyists attempting it clearly spent all their money
and can't afford to make webpages
because ramjets work just fine at high mach?
les_w: when did ramjets get mentioned
well.. what if you have a y-shape tube that switches between pulse and ram jet modes, for sub/super flying
does that check valve work?
I only get to fly at mach 0.2 or less anyway....
Ziegler: in theory and on a bench
Ziegler: does that qualify as working?
does reynolds number change with frequency?
frequency of what?
frequency of pressure change
i dont know the right words
a fluid moving back and forth
no log bot?
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-08-10.txt
someone spoke my name but myl og is too short ;)
i'm just here for cradek cause i found a log on google where he said he programmed the F8 CPU :-P
he must be old (40-50 years) if he did ;)
he's into antiquated electronics though
so how's your factory coming along?
made any product yet? ;)
yea who else has a factory?
itw owns a majority though!
but I have a bit!
you're responsible for it, that means its yours i guess
it means I'm an employee hahah
with an ok stock option.
unless I screw up of course.
speaking of screw up
why does your ballscrew have that pitch corrector thingy?
instead of doing it in software with error maps
about 1/4 down the page http://www.lmwatts.com/cnc.html
that's how some jig borers do it
it works pretty well
are the twin ballscrews mechanically geared together?
does the price of a ballscrew go up greatly with the diameter?
yes, but it does not go down proportionally :(
you shouldn't need a huge ballscrew
I was thinking for long travel distances
so the windup in the axle isn't too large
you can make slides to hold the screw up
but if bigger will take care of the problem in budget, yeah
no, windup in the screw becuase of the torque in it
first of all, what is this for?
machining hardened steel or positioning mirrors?
me? I was just musing
if a larger diameter doesn't cost much more then why not
because the inertia is higher
and the pitch is usually higher too
intertia is true
and.. something about friction and leverage
higher ball velocity means its less efficient
it's diameter^2 right (energy stored in the rotation)
hmm, that's also true
the balls can be larger though
with larger balls
always thought it was the other way around
less contact area with a larger/fewer balls than with smaller/many balls
in bicycles for instance
you use small bearings in the headstock and large bearings in the crankshaft
headstock always gets brinnelled.. never seen it on a crankshaft
just what i've seen in the bearing texts
don't have any personal experience with roller element design
either that or i misread it
its a stupid word
it comes from the brinell hardness test
usually the force on the crankshaft is a lot less than the intermittant force on the headstock (or so I would believe)
as the applied force comes from something meaty and relatively soft, whereas the headstock has steel on both sides
i just see a lot of big lathes that use many, many rolling elements
for headstock bearings
if they don't go plain
lerneaen_hydra: how about the axle bearings then?
this warrants looking up again
i may very well have it backwards
the books and stuff are at work
fenn: hmm, good point
they're quite small
never seen much denting there
the headstock doesnt spin, thats why
i saw a neat table lock design
that doesn't shift the table when you fasten it
um, tighten the gib?
that shifts the table
alright what was it
this thing was two steel strips, with a thin strip in between to give it spring
I'M TYPING HOLD ON
the bottom attaches to the saddle, fixed, and the top one goes on the table
holds it axially without exerting signifigant force in the other axis
little leaf spring deal
er, what's this called now?
it's just a table lock
that doesn't move the table when you engage it
like a gib lock does
just thought i'd mention something that wasn't a diamond turning machine for once
ok i got it.. like a credit card swiper
kind of, yes!