#emc | Logs for 2007-08-05

[00:00:11] <toast> "ACME"
[00:07:51] <jmkasunich> arrg - damn disconnects
[00:09:08] <jmkasunich> the fire is apparently from a ruptured gas line
[00:09:20] <jmkasunich> way too much fire for the gas tank
[00:10:20] <jmkasunich> zero smoke too - gasoline would smoke more
[00:10:59] <cradek> the car crashed into the telephone pole is a coincidence?
[00:11:15] <jmkasunich> the car didn't hit the pole
[00:11:23] <jmkasunich> I suspect the car somehow busted the gas line
[00:11:43] <cradek> oh!
[00:15:05] <cradek> should have aimed for the pole then...
[00:30:30] <jmkasunich> I'm sure they weren't aiming
[00:30:52] <jmkasunich> I wonder what it was they hit
[00:31:04] <jmkasunich> must not have been buried very deep
[00:38:25] <cradek> jepler: that video card works - I guess I had all the settings right but my card was bad.
[00:52:48] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: vent release pipe?
[00:53:35] <JymmmEMC> I couldn't image much of anything else adjacent to a street upprotected by pole in the ground.
[00:54:10] <JymmmEMC> concrete filled poles
[00:55:01] <JymmmEMC> and they only use nitorgen gas tanks on the cable near poles
[00:55:23] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: heh.... overhead gas lines! LOL
[01:04:57] <fenn> sure looks like it hit the pole
[01:05:22] <fenn> maybe the pole cranked on the gas line when it tilted
[01:13:37] <fenn> jmkasunich: what is going on here? http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/pics/LaFarge_Tires.jpg
[01:14:04] <toast> looks like a totally awesome ride
[01:14:10] <toast> except there's probably a shredder on the other end
[01:14:43] <fenn> then they cook your bones at 250 celsius and 10 atm?
[01:14:52] <toast> probably
[01:47:01] <fenn> billion dollar min. order: http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=800673
[01:47:54] <fenn> well, sorta
[01:48:12] <Ziegler> he
[01:48:14] <Ziegler> hehe
[01:48:31] <Ziegler> what is it?
[01:48:48] <fenn> a transistor
[01:48:54] <Ziegler> I gathered that...
[01:49:00] <fenn> nothing special about it
[01:49:11] <Ziegler> even more funny
[01:49:13] <Ziegler> :D
[02:15:24] <jepler> cradek: well, great -- if you want to keep it, it's yours.
[02:20:37] <jmkasunich> fenn: that is a cement factory
[02:20:57] <cradek> jepler: thank you!
[02:21:00] <jmkasunich> they use surplus tires to augment the fuel for the cement kiln
[02:24:13] <Jymmm> sounds like an episode od Dirty Jobs
[02:24:30] <jmkasunich> not terribly dirty
[02:24:37] <jmkasunich> a bit of dust in the air, thats all
[02:25:04] <Jymmm> But collecting the 1200 tires dumped in the woods and recycling them is =)
[02:25:26] <jmkasunich> actually the tires come straight from the tire factory
[02:25:28] <jmkasunich> rejects
[02:26:09] <jmkasunich> there's an amusing story there - when they first started using the tires, they caught plant employees sneaking them home and selling them on ebay
[02:26:17] <Jymmm> I was speaking of the Dirty Jobs episode.
[02:26:36] <jmkasunich> the tire maker had to design a machine that slashes the sidewalls of the rejects to put a stop to it
[02:26:48] <Jymmm> lol
[02:26:48] <toast> hahaha
[02:27:02] <Jymmm> Now there's a huge lawsuit waiting to happen
[02:27:05] <jmkasunich> right
[02:27:21] <jmkasunich> how come my brand new tire came apart on the road
[02:27:31] <jmkasunich> because it was a reject that you bought on ebay, go away!
[02:27:52] <Jymmm> problme is proving it was a reject
[02:28:25] <Jymmm> as some flunky in a dealer could tell either way
[02:28:39] <Jymmm> ^not
[02:29:38] <Jymmm> how did they find out?
[02:29:46] <Jymmm> abot the ebay thing
[02:29:51] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich next to the kiln (in the green jacket) http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/pics/LaFarge_Near_Motor.jpg
[02:30:14] <jmkasunich> dunno, probably somebody spotted a night shift guy loading up from the tire bin
[02:30:47] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Do you ever watch Dirty Jobs and/or How it's made?
[02:31:01] <jmkasunich> on rare occaisions
[02:31:04] <Jymmm> ah
[02:31:12] <jmkasunich> like hotels or other peoples houses - don't have cable here
[02:31:27] <Jymmm> gotcha
[02:32:28] <Jymmm> both are pretty good shows, I wish cab;e/sat let you pickj and choose the channels you wanted a la cart
[02:36:06] <toast> how it's made is awesome
[02:36:15] <toast> so is dirty jobs
[02:39:38] <Ziegler> I dont have cable either ....
[02:39:45] <Ziegler> I get to watch that stuff when I go on travel
[02:45:59] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[03:22:43] <tomp> Heidenhain has a way to move in 'machine coordinates'. This coordinate system cannot be manipulated ( cannot be translated [no shift, rot, scale, offset]). All other coordinate systems (in Heidenhain) are based on this one. This coordinate system is handy for plc motion, like for a tool changer, tool checker, pallete changer, spindle orientation . It works with absolute, distance-coded and 'normal' encoders.
[03:23:54] <cradek> emc has that - g53
[03:24:04] <toast> most machines have that
[03:24:44] <Skullworks-PGAB> same with FANUC (G53) or Okuma (G15 H0)
[03:25:07] <toast> and haas
[03:25:11] <toast> also g53.
[03:25:16] <toast> and mitsubishi!
[03:25:52] <Skullworks-PGAB> but haas allows a G52 to currupt the works
[03:26:06] <toast> let's not talk about what haas allows
[03:26:14] <toast> (i kid)
[03:26:56] <Skullworks-PGAB> * Skullworks-PGAB would be glad to forget Haas exists until he goes back to work on Monday.
[03:27:12] <toast> have you heard the "haaspower" joke
[03:27:29] <toast> haas rating machines for HP, haaspower, rather than HP, horsepower
[03:27:46] <toast> i hadn't until today
[03:27:51] <toast> i didn't know there was a rating problem
[03:28:52] <Skullworks-PGAB> you mean because there 15HP spindles can only do 6HP cuts without stalling?
[03:29:07] <toast> hahaha yeah
[03:29:12] <toast> =(
[03:29:12] <toast> SO YOU'VE HEARD
[03:29:15] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[03:29:21] <toast> s/heard/experienced
[03:29:30] <tomp> then a 'home' operation can move to the 'equivalent' machine coordinates, and this wish to re-home is already accomodated
[03:30:08] <toast> if a machine homed to what some of our programmers set to 0,0
[03:30:10] <toast> we'd have a big problem
[03:31:22] <Skullworks-PGAB> well they wanted to run this job on a VF0 - it needed to rigidtap a 7/8-9 hole 2" deep in 1045.
[03:31:42] <tomp> then the machine ( with unreachable 0,0,0 ) was not home by moving to 0,0,0, it was 'referenced' ( meaning the machine knows where 0,0,0, is, not that it can move to 0,0,0 )
[03:32:27] <Skullworks-PGAB> I said I'll set it up - but I'll let someone else press start - I did not want to hear what was going to happen.
[03:32:31] <toast> ha
[03:33:25] <tomp> and re-referencing can be done with G53 ( re-evaluating the accuracy of the coordinate system allignment ) ( making a switch agree with a machine coordinate )
[03:33:48] <Skullworks-PGAB> BBL
[03:35:22] <toast> Heidenhain: Advertising features that existed since NC went CNC.
[03:36:57] <tomp> unlimited coordinate systems [ datum tables ], and tilting of planes ( circles outside of G17/18/19 ) are a few i use a lot
[03:54:20] <Skullworks-PGAB> Cradek: How noise sensitive is a Pluto
[03:55:40] <Skullworks-PGAB> I was wondering about mounting it in the mill control enclosure and running a straight thru 6ft extension from the paraport.
[03:56:25] <Skullworks-PGAB> worried about line loise between the pluto and PC
[03:56:59] <Skullworks-PGAB> noise
[04:12:41] <cradek> Skullworks-PGAB: mine is on a cable like that, but it's probably more like 3' than 6'
[12:27:11] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/main.lyx: document new behavior of G28/G30
[13:55:22] <cradek> thanks again jepler
[13:56:13] <alex_joni> morning all
[13:56:48] <cradek> hi
[13:57:42] <alex_joni> what's up?
[13:58:36] <cradek> well I just got up and my head hurts - too bad it's not because of having fun last night :-/
[13:58:49] <cradek> funny how that works
[13:58:52] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I wonder if that's contagious?
[13:59:03] <cradek> you too?
[13:59:51] <SWPadnos> yeah
[14:00:07] <SWPadnos> though I haven't had coffee yet
[14:00:49] <cradek> hmm, if that's the cause, it's probably time to stop drinking so much of it
[14:01:14] <SWPadnos> that's not the cause, but it also hasn't been the remedy yet :)
[14:03:17] <alex_joni> maybe you got up too early?
[14:03:23] <SWPadnos> that's likely
[14:03:36] <alex_joni> * alex_joni got up at ~12:30
[14:03:38] <SWPadnos> I went to bed at 3:45, and woke up at 7-something
[14:08:33] <alex_joni> that doesn't sound healthy
[14:09:16] <SWPadnos> it probably isn't
[14:09:32] <alex_joni> I tried to get rid of that habit
[14:09:39] <alex_joni> and the only option is to sleep longer in teh morning :P
[14:09:47] <SWPadnos> actually it's weird - I've been waking up at 6:00 - 7:00 every day this week, regardless of when I go to bed, and without an alarm
[14:09:49] <SWPadnos> :)
[14:10:01] <alex_joni> yeah, same here.. around 7
[14:10:10] <alex_joni> which is 2 hours earlier than usual for me
[14:21:36] <danielbr> hello guys, i'm need use a image inside a button in pyvcp see: http://pastebin.ca/646382 and http://imagebin.org/9746
[14:24:07] <alex_joni> danielbr: if you can make it be read from the XML it would be best
[14:24:53] <danielbr> yes this is call by xml file
[14:25:21] <danielbr> the problem is that little one button that appear also
[14:25:29] <danielbr> and only that works
[14:25:43] <danielbr> i'm not a programmer
[14:26:12] <danielbr> but i need improve pyvcp looks
[14:26:32] <alex_joni> sorry.. can't help you with python stuff :/
[14:26:52] <danielbr> ok
[14:27:00] <alex_joni> danielbr: but maybe you can look at how axis does it?
[14:27:41] <danielbr> in axis the tcl file calls a image
[14:28:03] <danielbr> ans is easy change that
[14:29:29] <danielbr> i'm thiking also in some animated gif support so one can change the frame with a hal signal
[14:29:41] <alex_joni> heh
[14:30:05] <danielbr> example that red led change to green
[14:30:21] <danielbr> or a beatiful button spin
[14:30:59] <danielbr> i can draw with xara
[14:31:51] <tomp> change lib/python/pyvcp_widgets.py. i did this last year and posted it ( png/gif/jpg in btn ) but cant find it today :(
[14:32:24] <tomp> and two/three state leds... ditto
[14:32:52] <danielbr> hi tomp, iam working in that file but i don't know python
[14:33:27] <danielbr> that pastebin is my change in that file
[14:33:43] <toast> ff
[14:33:48] <tomp> danielbr: i'll try to find the src.. but you will end up non standard, and need to carry this file over into every new cvs up.
[14:33:51] <danielbr> but that do not work well
[14:34:21] <danielbr> please if you find i need
[14:34:29] <jepler> danielbr: which version are you using -- 2.1 or TRUNK?
[14:34:29] <tomp> i had to add a new python lib to get images
[14:34:48] <danielbr> trunk or 2.1
[14:34:56] <danielbr> teunk now
[14:35:00] <danielbr> trunk
[14:35:50] <danielbr> i add import Image, ImageTk
[14:37:05] <danielbr> for draw i using http://www.xaraxtreme.org/
[14:38:09] <jepler> with this change, it's possible to at least .gif images in buttons in pyvcp: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/lib/python/pyvcp_widgets.py.diff?r1=1.32;r2=1.33
[14:38:36] <jepler> example: <pyvcp> <vbox> <image name="sample" file="sample.gif"/> <button image="sample"/> </vbox> </pyvcp>
[14:38:52] <jepler> you create an image with <image> and use it in a later <button> or other widget
[14:39:17] <danielbr> and tho use as a label?
[14:40:32] <jepler> <label image="sample"> works as well
[14:41:27] <jlmjvm> I have an Axis question,how do you get to the fixture and tool offsets,had to make a shortcut to stepper.tbl and.var,am I missing something
[14:41:30] <danielbr> ok tanks jepler
[14:43:43] <danielbr> i can draw some leds and spinbuttons and... and gpl for use in pyvcp
[14:43:54] <jepler> jlmjvm: use "touch off" to set fixture offsets. Use your favorite text editor to edit the tool table file to set tool length and diameter.
[14:44:17] <jepler> jlmjvm: in emc 2.2, there will be an "edit tool table" shortcut in the axis menu
[14:45:01] <danielbr> also that animated gif for frame change
[14:45:20] <jepler> I don't know if animated gifs are supported by Tk at all
[14:45:27] <jlmjvm> how do you select between g54-59 using touchoff
[14:45:55] <jepler> jlmjvm: the main touch off button always sets g54. It may be a new feature for 2.2, but there are also menu items to choose what coordinate system you want to set.
[14:46:28] <jepler> "Machine > Touch off axis in system"
[14:46:30] <jlmjvm> where are the menu items
[14:46:38] <jepler> not sure if that is in 2.1
[14:46:42] <jlmjvm> k
[14:46:47] <danielbr> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2001-July/007549.html
[14:46:48] <cradek> in emc2.1, you have to use G10 in MDI
[14:46:57] <jepler> cradek: thanks, I was too lazy to check
[14:50:47] <jlmjvm> so you cant use g55-59 at this moment?
[14:51:19] <cradek> yes you can use them
[14:51:45] <cradek> the only way to SET the offsets is to use G10 in MDI
[14:51:51] <alex_joni> use MDI to select g55-g59 then use touch-off and it will work in the elected coord
[14:52:02] <cradek> alex_joni: that's incorrect
[14:52:05] <alex_joni> s/elected/selected/
[14:52:11] <alex_joni> oh, is it?
[14:52:12] <cradek> alex_joni: no version of emc does that
[14:52:18] <alex_joni> * alex_joni shuts up then
[14:55:11] <jepler> I am sure there is a better implementation for people who routinely use more than one fixture offset
[14:55:22] <jepler> alex's suggestion has merit
[14:56:25] <alex_joni> obviously I never used it.. but that would be the way I'd expect it :)
[14:56:32] <jepler> having a menu on the Touch Off popup to say which system (with the last choice remembered at least during the session) is another idea that comes to mind
[14:56:41] <danielbr> jepler: in this page there are a example (in the mid page) http://www.daniweb.com/forums/thread20774-7.html
[14:56:49] <jlmjvm> would be great if you could select offset number,then touch off
[14:57:38] <alex_joni> jepler: and the Machine->Touch-Off current axis in system would just be a list of possible choices, with a checkbox next to the one selected
[14:57:50] <jlmjvm> where can i get a list of emc g codes
[14:58:01] <alex_joni> jepler: manual
[14:58:04] <SWPadnos> they're in the manual
[14:58:07] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: manual
[14:58:17] <jlmjvm> brb
[14:58:33] <SWPadnos> on an installed (Ubuntu) system, it's Applications->CNC->EMC2 User Manual
[14:59:27] <cradek> my favorite list is the gcode quick-ref, which is also on the CNC menu
[14:59:45] <SWPadnos> is that the card we printed?
[14:59:49] <cradek> yes
[14:59:52] <cradek> +-
[15:00:00] <SWPadnos> oh cool - I didn't realize it was there
[15:00:03] <jlmjvm> glad it wasnt a snake,lol
[15:02:37] <jlmjvm> will have to play with the g10 to see how it works,never really used it before
[15:04:01] <jlmjvm> but this will use 54-59 if i have the numbers set in stepper.var,correct?
[15:05:18] <danielbr> cradek: have you looked at the g38.2 problem with Axis A and U,...?
[15:06:05] <cradek> yes but I have only fixed it halfway so far
[15:06:47] <danielbr> how many time you think is necessary for fix it?
[15:07:24] <cradek> I don't know exactly when I will get back to it, or how long it will take to work it out
[15:08:05] <danielbr> ok so i'll need use other solution for my retrofit, thanks
[15:09:23] <cradek> ok if you require exact time promises, that's probably a good idea
[15:09:30] <cradek> brb
[15:09:44] <alex_joni> is that probing?
[15:09:55] <danielbr> yes
[15:10:04] <alex_joni> danielbr: what's the issue?
[15:11:29] <danielbr> using A promt probe finished without probe imediatly
[15:12:04] <danielbr> and for u in trunk try probe all axis
[15:19:18] <cradek> alex_joni: if you want to work on it, I can check in my partial fixes
[15:19:33] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: let user choose system to touch-off in the dialog
[15:19:34] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/share/axis/tcl/axis.tcl: let user choose system to touch-off in the dialog
[15:21:06] <alex_joni> cradek: I am looking at the run-from-line problem first
[15:21:14] <cradek> ok
[15:21:34] <cradek> is that the vel/acc problem?
[15:21:46] <alex_joni> yeah
[15:21:50] <alex_joni> I had a fix for 2.1
[15:21:58] <alex_joni> but it doesn't work for pre-2.2
[15:22:02] <cradek> jepler: yay!
[15:22:09] <cradek> oh? I'm surprised
[15:22:49] <alex_joni> cradek: I was too
[15:22:56] <alex_joni> jepler: the touch off works great now
[15:23:03] <alex_joni> jepler: only one thing I would change..
[15:23:12] <alex_joni> the Machine->Touch off in system .. entry
[15:23:42] <alex_joni> I would make that Machine->Default system for touch off->P1..P9
[15:23:59] <jepler> alex_joni: and not pop up the dialog?
[15:24:06] <alex_joni> jepler: yesd
[15:28:14] <alex_joni> jepler: can I make another feature request for AXIS?
[15:28:30] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/task/taskintf.cc: partial fix for probing in non-xyz. vars still don't get filled out right.
[15:28:31] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/ (interp_convert.cc rs274ngc_errors.cc rs274ngc_return.hh): partial fix for probing in non-xyz. vars still don't get filled out right.
[15:28:34] <alex_joni> would it be very hard to have a right-click option on the program line for set run-from
[15:30:56] <alex_joni> ?
[15:33:23] <anonimasu> alex_joni: you mean so you never work in the "machine" coordinate system but always in a offset?
[15:33:59] <alex_joni> anonimasu: ?
[15:34:11] <anonimasu> 17:26 < alex_joni> I would make that Machine->Default system for touch off->P1..P9
[15:34:23] <jlmjvm> thanks for the info guys,found where to input the values in stepper.var,can use 54-59 now
[15:34:42] <alex_joni> anonimasu: P1 is G54
[15:34:59] <anonimasu> ah..
[15:35:01] <cradek> jlmjvm: be careful not to change those while emc is running - it's better to use G10 to program those offsets
[15:35:12] <anonimasu> cant you block that off? if you use homing that is..
[15:35:45] <anonimasu> err sorry.
[15:35:57] <anonimasu> g53 would be mahchine coordinates right?
[15:36:01] <anonimasu> and g54 would be offsets from that
[15:36:36] <jlmjvm> cradek:do you mean while its in a cut?
[15:37:12] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: select and show system for touch-off in the menu
[15:37:12] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/share/axis/tcl/axis.tcl: select and show system for touch-off in the menu
[15:40:07] <alex_joni> jepler: works great!
[15:42:29] <jepler> alex_joni: thanks for testing
[15:42:33] <jepler> I hope it's more useful now
[15:42:42] <alex_joni> it seems that to me
[15:45:44] <jlmjvm> did yall just fix that?
[15:46:56] <jepler> improved it, I think
[15:47:11] <jlmjvm> cool
[15:48:53] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: but it'll be in 2.2.0, not in the current 2.1.x versions
[15:49:08] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: and we only talked abotu it.. jepler did all the work
[15:49:31] <jlmjvm> i think once you can select fixture offsets and tool offsets from the gui you will have the hottest gui out there
[15:49:49] <jlmjvm> love the look of axis
[15:50:09] <jlmjvm> thanks jepler
[15:51:21] <Vq^> jlmjvm: until a curses-based gui gets created ;)
[15:51:47] <toast> hahah
[15:51:47] <jlmjvm> any idea when 2.2 will be out
[15:51:48] <toast> that would be so awesome
[15:51:54] <jlmjvm> what is curses based?
[15:51:56] <alex_joni> curses-based?
[15:52:10] <toast> it's a command line gui
[15:52:14] <toast> draws stuff on the console
[15:52:18] <alex_joni> there is one..
[15:52:22] <alex_joni> keystick
[15:52:26] <alex_joni> ncurses based
[15:52:39] <jepler> jlmjvm: this spring we were saying "this summer" so we'd better hurry with 2.2.
[15:52:44] <alex_joni> roughly 10 years old :P
[15:52:54] <toast> lol
[15:53:03] <alex_joni> toast: but it's in emc2 too
[15:53:48] <toast> i don't have an emc machine
[15:54:05] <toast> i just think ncurses is awesome
[15:54:34] <fenn> maybe he meant an ascii-art based gui
[15:56:25] <fenn> you could use libaa to do some funky stuff
[15:58:49] <jlmjvm> jepler:dont wanna rush ya,was just curious
[15:59:10] <jlmjvm> im ready to get away from mach3
[16:02:19] <jlmjvm> if you have encoders on your stepper motors,and you get a ferror,will that stop all motion/
[16:03:11] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: yes
[16:03:28] <alex_joni> ferror stops any motion, regardless of steppers or servos
[16:03:56] <alex_joni> but you could configure the difference between commanded and actual position (as long as it's lower than ferror) to change the speed of the machine
[16:04:12] <alex_joni> I'd make it go slower if the steppers can't keep up
[16:04:57] <jlmjvm> that would be great,have some new pacsi steppers from ebay that have shafts on the backside,unfortunately they are too weak for my bridgeport
[16:06:42] <jlmjvm> they work great on the bench,but dont have the guts to move my iron like i want
[16:07:10] <jlmjvm> almost wondering if i should go servo
[16:07:53] <jlmjvm> fixing to be covered up with work on this machine,for the first time ever
[16:08:18] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: if you plan to read the encoders then I'd say servos
[16:09:32] <jlmjvm> gotta have something i can depend on,making flight hardware
[16:10:09] <jlmjvm> have a pic of my latest part if anyone wants to see
[16:11:14] <jlmjvm> can you put a pic on pastebin?
[16:11:16] <alex_joni> sure
[16:11:24] <alex_joni> imagebin.org
[16:12:02] <jlmjvm> k,brb,gotta reboot in windows to get them
[16:12:18] <alex_joni> why?
[16:13:10] <jlmjvm> jlmjvm is a newbie to dual boot
[16:13:29] <jlmjvm> lemme see if i can get there from here
[16:13:35] <alex_joni> you can read windows drives from linux just fine
[16:14:22] <jlmjvm> says unable to mount
[16:15:18] <jlmjvm> brb
[16:22:27] <jlmjvm> alex_joni:they should be there,jlmjvm_parts
[16:23:35] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: doesn't seem like that to me
[16:23:56] <jlmjvm> not there?
[16:24:18] <alex_joni> nope
[16:24:26] <alex_joni> maybe it's too big
[16:24:27] <jlmjvm> lemmee redo,first time on imagebin
[16:25:00] <alex_joni> no problem
[16:27:17] <jlmjvm> they are too big is why,1 meg
[16:27:48] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: rescale :P
[16:28:08] <alex_joni> max size = 512kB
[16:28:32] <jlmjvm> never rescaled before,in learning mode
[16:29:25] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: easiest is using mspaint, Image->Stretch and Skew-> Stretch 30%, 30%
[16:29:38] <jlmjvm> k
[16:33:44] <jlmjvm> should be there now
[16:34:32] <alex_joni> woo.. nice
[16:34:56] <jlmjvm> thanks alex
[16:35:19] <SWPadnos> shiny :)
[16:35:58] <jlmjvm> im new to emc,but have been a cnc programer and cnc machinist since 83
[16:36:11] <jlmjvm> thanks sw
[16:36:21] <alex_joni> * alex_joni was paying in the sandbox in 83
[16:36:25] <alex_joni> playing even
[16:36:52] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I was in high school at the time
[16:36:59] <jlmjvm> its not like im old,lol
[16:37:25] <SWPadnos> you'd only need to be a few years older than me, if you started young :)
[16:37:37] <jlmjvm> im 45
[16:37:40] <SWPadnos> damn!
[16:37:46] <SWPadnos> er - I mean, that's not too old :)
[16:37:55] <jlmjvm> lol
[16:38:13] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos turns 39 this Thursday
[16:38:41] <jlmjvm> wishes i was 39 again
[16:38:47] <toast> i am 21!
[16:38:58] <toast> wheee
[16:39:18] <Ziegler> morning all
[16:39:22] <SWPadnos> jlmjvm, use /me at the beginning of a lline to do that italics trick
[16:39:23] <Ziegler> err.. afternoon
[16:39:27] <jlmjvm> seems like yesterday i was
[16:39:46] <jlmjvm> thats when i started in cnc
[16:40:00] <Ziegler> any of you convert one of these little toys to CNC: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Info/minimill_compare.php
[16:40:19] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is 27
[16:40:29] <jlmjvm> tape lathe and a flex writer for the punch tape,no computer
[16:40:51] <Ziegler> 27 here also... at the end of aug
[16:41:25] <jlmjvm> yall are making me feel like a grandpa
[16:41:37] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:41:52] <Ziegler> if it makes you feel any better... I fell like a g-pa most of the time
[16:44:00] <jlmjvm> thats why most of my questions are application related
[16:44:36] <Ziegler> I have been playing with the idea of converting one of those over... I am sure someone else has done it before me... just looking for pictures
[16:45:18] <jlmjvm> how much are those little mills?
[16:45:55] <tomp> i think those are sieg's branded by us importers http://www.siegind.com/
[16:45:58] <Ziegler> listed online about $500 US.. .but I have seen them at about $300
[16:46:03] <tomp> U.S.
[16:46:13] <alex_joni> * alex_joni kicks CIA-8
[16:46:13] <CIA-8> ow
[16:46:27] <jlmjvm> i bought my boss bridgeport for 500.00 us
[16:47:17] <tomp> despite the url, this is their biggest mill http://www.siegind.com/Products/br-x3-super-lathe.htm
[16:47:18] <toast> i'd really like a bedded brigeport instead of a knee type
[16:47:58] <toast> that's a neat little mill
[16:48:19] <jlmjvm> me too,hate cranking the knee up and down
[16:48:37] <toast> there are a couple decent import companies making them now
[16:48:58] <jlmjvm> swpadnos:what did you mean a min ago,just saw it
[16:49:02] <toast> someday, i guess.
[16:49:11] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:49:33] <jlmjvm> jlmjvm, use /me at the beginning of a lline to do that italics trick
[16:50:14] <SWPadnos> when you said ""wished I was 39 again" - I figured you wanted it to show up in a different font/hilight- like when I said "turns 39 next Thursday"
[16:50:43] <alex_joni> * alex_joni thinks like this
[16:50:50] <SWPadnos> IRC commands begin with a "/" as the first character, and the "me" command does that
[16:50:59] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos agrees with alex_joni
[16:51:05] <alex_joni> /me thinks SWPadnos meant it like this
[16:51:12] <SWPadnos> /you do?
[16:51:18] <SWPadnos> :)
[16:51:27] <alex_joni> /I do
[16:51:31] <SWPadnos> /excellent
[16:51:34] <jlmjvm> * jlmjvm is this it
[16:51:37] <SWPadnos> yep
[16:51:42] <alex_joni> * alex_joni thinks so
[16:51:49] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos agrees with alex_joni
[16:51:54] <Ziegler> * Ziegler wonder what is going on?
[16:52:00] <alex_joni> * alex_joni has no idea
[16:52:01] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos agrees with alex_joni
[16:52:03] <Ziegler> ;P
[16:52:11] <jlmjvm> * jlmjvm jlmjvm is an irc dude now
[16:52:17] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos thinks not!
[16:52:24] <toast> * toast can has cheezburger?
[16:52:24] <alex_joni> * alex_joni agrees with SWPadnos
[16:52:32] <jlmjvm> prolly right
[16:52:34] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos goes for more coffee
[16:52:38] <toast> * toast shoots a man
[16:52:39] <SWPadnos> :)
[16:52:44] <alex_joni> * alex_joni thinks coffee is bad for SWPadnos
[16:53:13] <toast> 5,7/!\ danger team activate /!\
[16:53:18] <Ziegler> * Ziegler smokes a java flavored cigar
[16:53:20] <jlmjvm> * jlmjvm where do yall get the smiley faces
[16:53:30] <Ziegler> type : D
[16:53:33] <Ziegler> together
[16:53:37] <jlmjvm> d
[16:53:37] <toast> :D
[16:53:41] <fenn> ahh my eyes
[16:53:44] <jlmjvm> D
[16:53:47] <Ziegler> or : )
[16:54:04] <alex_joni> ;)
[16:54:15] <jlmjvm> * jlmjvm obviously not an irc dude yet
[16:54:55] <jlmjvm> D
[16:55:03] <jlmjvm> : D
[16:55:40] <jlmjvm> * jlmjvm jlmjvm better stick to machining
[16:55:41] <SWPadnos> colon and D, with no space between
[16:55:54] <jlmjvm> :D
[16:56:08] <Ziegler> or colon )
[16:56:12] <SWPadnos> or colon with ( ) o underscore o, o underscore O O _ o ...
[16:56:18] <SWPadnos> O_o
[16:56:22] <Ziegler> 0_o
[16:56:35] <SWPadnos> the letter o, not the numeral zero
[16:56:43] <Ziegler> I prefer the zero
[16:56:48] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:56:47] <alex_joni> how do you make that big letter o?
[16:56:57] <alex_joni> :P
[16:56:59] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos usesthe shift key
[16:56:59] <Ziegler> .me blinks
[16:57:05] <toast> OR CAPS LOCK
[16:57:06] <Ziegler> hehe
[16:57:10] <toast> ALSO WORKS
[16:57:19] <alex_joni> * alex_joni kicks toast
[16:57:21] <jlmjvm> :O
[16:57:23] <toast> caps lock is cruise control for cool
[16:57:34] <alex_joni> /kick toast
[16:58:02] <jlmjvm> * jlmjvm now jlmjvm is an irc dude
[16:58:02] <SWPadnos> I've found that caps lock and lack of punctuation generally go together
[16:58:11] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:58:21] <Vq^> \/\/|-|At is Al1 T|-|is AboU+?
[16:58:54] <SWPadnos> w3 r m/\k1ng jlmjvm 1nt0 a IRC d00D!
[16:59:05] <Vq^> :o)
[16:59:06] <alex_joni> Vq^: no l33t sp34ch pl3a$e
[16:59:14] <SWPadnos> maybe we should stop now
[17:00:31] <jlmjvm> if i go servo does anyone have a suggestion about some motors,bearing in mind that i have 1 to 1 gearing with 4 inch pulleys
[17:01:03] <jlmjvm> and using smaller pulleys isnt an option
[17:01:49] <fenn> why not?
[17:02:26] <jmkasunich> usually servos (compared to steppers) benefit from running fast
[17:02:45] <jmkasunich> ideally you could keep the 4" pulleys on the screws and use 1" or so on the motors
[17:02:57] <jlmjvm> would have to disassemble the head to change the belt for z axis
[17:03:49] <jlmjvm> usually the boss machines that i have seen that were servo were 2 to 1 gearing from the factory
[17:04:00] <jmkasunich> this is a bport machine?
[17:04:05] <jlmjvm> yep
[17:04:38] <jmkasunich> given that the Z is the shortest axis, its a little tempting to keep it stepper (steppers have good low speed torque, and with 1:1 drive thats what you need)
[17:05:05] <jmkasunich> convert the X and Y to servos with some reduction, somewhere between 2:1 and 4:1
[17:05:43] <jmkasunich> but to really make these decisions, you need to do some math
[17:06:14] <jlmjvm> would like to keep all 3 axis the same,servo or stepper
[17:06:49] <jlmjvm> dont mind stepper,just need some with enought grunt to move my mill properly
[17:06:50] <jmkasunich> whatever floats your boat - EMC doesn't require you to keep them the same
[17:07:04] <jmkasunich> how many oz-in do you need?
[17:07:06] <jlmjvm> has nema 42 origanally
[17:07:22] <jmkasunich> there are nema 34
[17:07:25] <jmkasunich> oops
[17:07:44] <jmkasunich> nema 34's these days that have as much or more torque than the old bport 42's
[17:07:51] <jlmjvm> got an 840 oz in pacsi on it right now,but its not enough
[17:08:14] <jmkasunich> this is a quill drive? or a knee?
[17:08:41] <jlmjvm> thats what i heard,but when i put 1 on it is weak
[17:08:44] <jlmjvm> quill
[17:08:59] <jmkasunich> what kind of drives? geckos?
[17:09:27] <jlmjvm> g203v on the pacsi,g201 on the bp motors
[17:09:39] <alex_joni> what supply voltage?
[17:10:06] <jmkasunich> supply voltage will affect torque at high speed
[17:10:13] <jlmjvm> bout 34 right now,can change to 67,but no diff
[17:10:15] <jmkasunich> when is it weak? fast or slow?
[17:10:26] <jlmjvm> fast
[17:10:39] <jlmjvm> cant get the rapids i want
[17:10:39] <jmkasunich> and changing the voltage from 34 to 67 makes NO difference?
[17:10:52] <skunkworks> does the voltage sag?
[17:10:56] <jlmjvm> not that ive seen
[17:11:02] <jmkasunich> something is fscked
[17:11:07] <jlmjvm> im thinking it does
[17:11:11] <jlmjvm> drop
[17:11:16] <jmkasunich> got a voltmeter?
[17:11:37] <alex_joni> did you se the proper current resister on the gecko?
[17:11:43] <alex_joni> s/se/set/
[17:11:49] <jmkasunich> there is no substitute for knowing what is going on - get a meter and measure things
[17:12:38] <jlmjvm> because if i use this power supply on a servo setup its very weak,got a store bought 1 on my last retrofit for a servo with 1:1 on a hurco mill with g320
[17:12:49] <jlmjvm> it rapids at 250 ipm
[17:12:58] <jlmjvm> yes have a volt meter
[17:13:09] <jmkasunich> measure the supply voltage during a rapid and see if it drops
[17:13:17] <jmkasunich> sitting here speculating is useless
[17:13:33] <fenn> some cheap meters are slow btw, you might miss the dip
[17:13:44] <jmkasunich> there are so many different things that could be causing your torque problems
[17:13:56] <jmkasunich> and if you are stuck with a 1:1 ratio, it might be WORSE with steppers
[17:14:05] <jlmjvm> im sure it does,saw it do it on my first servo setup
[17:14:06] <jmkasunich> you gotta understand what is going on, and that means measuring and testing
[17:14:47] <jlmjvm> mariss told me if i see it dip on my meter its actually more than i see
[17:15:04] <jmkasunich> yep, meter response is slow
[17:15:28] <jmkasunich> the ideal tool for checking things like that is a storage scope, but lots more people have meters than have scopes
[17:15:31] <jlmjvm> i may order a toroid transformer and try that
[17:15:57] <SWPadnos> jlmjvm, remember those motor experts I mentioned before - jmkasunich is one of them :)
[17:16:07] <jlmjvm> i have some cheap transformers from mpj
[17:16:35] <jlmjvm> excellent,im in the right place at the right time for a change
[17:17:04] <SWPadnos> http://toroid-transformer.com/ seems to have reasonably priced supplies, with options for additional low voltage outputs (like 5 and 12V)
[17:17:20] <SWPadnos> I haven't used their products, but they do look good
[17:19:46] <jlmjvm> would love to use these pacsi motors
[17:19:56] <jlmjvm> how many va do i need
[17:20:41] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure. (a) I don't know these things anyway and (b) we don't have real specs for your motors, since they're "special windings"
[17:21:05] <SWPadnos> though that shouldn't affect the total power much, just the V : A ratio you need
[17:21:39] <jlmjvm> would 500 to 600 be ok
[17:21:44] <jmkasunich> there are a lot of numbers that are needed to analyze a machine/motor/drive/powersupply
[17:21:52] <jmkasunich> and we don't have any of them for your machine
[17:22:21] <SWPadnos> scroll back about 1000 lines and you'll see some of them :)
[17:22:28] <fenn> 600 VA =~ 600W right?
[17:22:37] <jmkasunich> fenn: not really
[17:22:38] <SWPadnos> not in delivered power
[17:22:46] <jlmjvm> say for a standard pacsi nema 34 motor
[17:22:54] <jmkasunich> 600VA = 600W if you are delivering AC power to a resistive load
[17:23:07] <jmkasunich> if you are rectifying and delivering DC, you won't get that much
[17:23:15] <SWPadnos> the folks at Toroid (not the same as that last link) say you should derate by a factor of 1.8 for use in bulk DC supplies
[17:23:30] <SWPadnos> the standard conversion is sqrt(2)
[17:23:31] <fenn> ok, besides diode voltage drop what other losses are there?
[17:23:38] <jmkasunich> power factor
[17:23:56] <jmkasunich> current is not in phase with voltage
[17:24:34] <jlmjvm> would the voltage drop be why i can run 1250 rpm on the bench,but 500 or less on the machine?
[17:24:41] <jmkasunich> some of the "losses" aren't losses in the sense of "energy being wasted by making heat"
[17:24:50] <SWPadnos> VA ratings include the imaginary axis, whereas DC loads are real only - the rest is power that's not transferred to the load, but still goes through the transformer
[17:25:07] <SWPadnos> (heavily simplified explanation)
[17:25:14] <jmkasunich> jlmjvm: you mean the stepper will do 1250 RPM before stalling on the bench, but on the machine it stalls at 500?
[17:25:45] <fenn> * fenn reads about power factor
[17:27:29] <jlmjvm> wont stall on bench,runs max pulse rate with great accel,hook up the belt and its miserablely slow,doesnt stall,just faults the drive
[17:27:44] <jmkasunich> this is a stepper motor?
[17:27:57] <jmkasunich> steppers don't fault drives, they stall
[17:28:00] <skunkworks> what things trigger the fault on the drive?
[17:28:02] <jlmjvm> yep,pacsi powerpac,nema34
[17:28:28] <jmkasunich> what kind of fault are you getting?
[17:28:32] <jlmjvm> mariss says it should not fault the drive
[17:28:39] <jmkasunich> I agree with him
[17:28:45] <jlmjvm> me too
[17:28:55] <fenn> * fenn mumbles something about motor coils being shorted to the case
[17:29:05] <jmkasunich> so why aren't you trying to figure out why it is faulting
[17:29:15] <jmkasunich> instead of thinking about new power supplies and/or servo motors
[17:30:36] <jmkasunich> sorry for being so blunt - but "troubleshooting by replacing things" is a pet peeve of mine
[17:32:19] <skunkworks> * skunkworks thinks cold roasted chicken is almost as good a cold pizza the next day
[17:32:29] <jlmjvm> really dont know how to troubleshoot why its faulting,did everything mariss told me to,but know for a fact that my power supply is weak on a servo setup
[17:32:40] <jmkasunich> skunkworks: better!
[17:33:01] <skunkworks> :)
[17:33:24] <skunkworks> what does the fault light designate on the geckos?
[17:34:35] <jlmjvm> short circuit on motor output,or over temp
[17:34:47] <jmkasunich> ok, is it getting hot?
[17:34:51] <jlmjvm> nope
[17:35:04] <jmkasunich> then it must be a motor short
[17:35:40] <jmkasunich> when you run on the bench and on the machine, is it the same motor each time
[17:35:41] <jlmjvm> i do know these motors have a special winding
[17:35:49] <jmkasunich> or do you ahve a bench motor and a machine mounted motor?
[17:35:59] <skunkworks> are the motors too low impedence for the geckos?
[17:36:05] <jlmjvm> tested all 3 on bench
[17:36:22] <jlmjvm> tried 2 different ones on machine
[17:36:43] <jmkasunich> how do the other axes work? are they OK?
[17:37:02] <jlmjvm> they still have the bridgeport motors
[17:37:32] <jlmjvm> dont want to remove till i can resolve this issue
[17:38:34] <jmkasunich> so, you have three motors, and one drive
[17:38:46] <jmkasunich> all motors work fine on the bench with zero load torque
[17:39:09] <jmkasunich> you've tried two of those motors on the machine (with the same drive I hope), and they fault out at moderate speeds
[17:39:17] <jlmjvm> yes,all work fine on bench
[17:39:26] <jlmjvm> yes
[17:39:30] <jmkasunich> have you checked the machine for binding or anything that would require excessive torque?
[17:39:40] <jlmjvm> fingertip smooth
[17:39:55] <jlmjvm> smooth as silk
[17:39:56] <jmkasunich> have you tried applying load torque on the bench?
[17:40:06] <jlmjvm> nope
[17:40:41] <jmkasunich> if the difference between works and doesn't work is the moderate torque load that the motors see in the machine, you should bench test with moderate torque load
[17:41:03] <jmkasunich> try grabbing the shaft and see how hard it is to stop it
[17:41:14] <SWPadnos> this spec sheet has torque curves for similar motors: http://www.novotecargentina.com/descargar.php?id=156
[17:41:38] <jmkasunich> (clamp the motor down, and use sturdy leather work gloves, be carefull if the motor shaft has a keyway, don't want it to grab the glove)
[17:41:58] <fenn> or put a pulley on the shaft
[17:42:01] <jlmjvm> it has a keyway
[17:43:21] <jmkasunich> keyway just means you need to be careful
[17:43:29] <jmkasunich> like fenn said - use a pulley
[17:43:50] <jlmjvm> just wondering if i buy new pacsi motors,with a standard winding and a good power supply,can i get the 1250 or 1500 rpm im looking for
[17:43:57] <jmkasunich> my point is that sometimes a 5 minute test will tell you more than 10 hours of talking on IRC
[17:44:02] <jlmjvm> these were from ebay
[17:44:16] <SWPadnos> jlmjvm, that depends on whether or not the motors / power supply is the problem
[17:44:47] <jlmjvm> i can take the belt off and test it right now
[17:45:12] <jlmjvm> gimmee a sec
[17:45:43] <SWPadnos> if you stick a motor on the bench and grab it (with safety in mind, of course), you shouldn't be able to prevent it from starting up (840 oz-in is quite a bit to grab) - the question is at what speed can you grab it, and have the G203V fault out
[17:46:36] <SWPadnos> if you can't get it to fault on the bench, then there's something else going on that will take time to figure out (and sending a motor to Mariss may be a good idea in that case)
[17:46:37] <jlmjvm> gonna leave it mounted,but remove belt pulley
[17:46:49] <SWPadnos> that works - the machine should keep it from jumping around :)
[17:47:07] <jlmjvm> thats what i was thinking:d
[17:47:16] <jlmjvm> :d
[17:47:23] <SWPadnos> capital D
[17:47:29] <SWPadnos> or roght parens :)
[17:47:29] <jlmjvm> :D
[17:47:29] <SWPadnos> right
[17:47:48] <SWPadnos> (it's a shape thing, not a spelling thing)
[17:47:56] <jmkasunich> :P
[17:48:05] <SWPadnos> >=)
[17:48:08] <jmkasunich> ^^^ sticking out tongue
[17:48:13] <SWPadnos> >-)
[17:48:24] <fenn> windmill-head
[17:48:30] <SWPadnos> hmmm. did others get an alien face for that last one?
[17:49:23] <jmkasunich> :<{0> big nose, moustache, goatee, screaming
[17:49:30] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:49:46] <SWPadnos> looks like APL to me
[17:49:52] <jmkasunich> what do you mean alien face
[17:49:59] <SWPadnos> one sec
[17:50:05] <jmkasunich> is your chat client substituting some graphical image for the text?
[17:50:12] <SWPadnos> yes
[17:50:17] <jmkasunich> bogus
[17:50:56] <SWPadnos> heh - I like it, inless people are writing functions that have an 8 or B before close parens - those turn into smilies with shades B)
[17:51:27] <jmkasunich> IRC is a text medium dammit
[17:51:35] <jmkasunich> don't mess with the purity!
[17:51:51] <SWPadnos> I'm using a GUI anyway, so nyah
[17:52:20] <alex_joni> * alex_joni uses irssi :P
[17:52:28] <alex_joni> text mode rulez
[17:52:38] <jmkasunich> whats the emoticon for Pppptthbt!
[17:52:58] <fenn> :Ppptthbt
[17:53:52] <SWPadnos> this is what IRC looks like for me: http://imagebin.org/9755
[17:53:56] <fenn> am wondering how these active pfc things work
[17:54:30] <jmkasunich> PWM man
[17:54:41] <fenn> or rather, why you would have a smps without active pfc in the first place
[17:54:57] <jmkasunich> cause pfc adds parts, cost, and losses
[17:55:27] <jmkasunich> hard to beat a few diodes for simplicity and cheapness
[17:56:23] <jlmjvm> k,got it turned on,also changed ps back to 64 v dc
[17:56:42] <fenn> does the buck converter in an active pfc convert directly to the psu's output voltage? or does it go to some intermediate voltage that then gets switched again
[17:57:04] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: here's how it should look http://imagebin.org/9756
[17:57:06] <SWPadnos> you should do the bench testing at both voltages, to be sure that you're getting a difference
[17:57:38] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, I hate jelly buttons ;)
[17:57:51] <SWPadnos> I like an OS that doesn't look like a Fisher-Price toy
[17:58:05] <SWPadnos> rather, a GUI
[17:58:08] <alex_joni> lego mindstorms :P
[17:58:14] <SWPadnos> the OS shouldn't really havea look at all
[17:58:17] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:59:32] <fenn> alex_joni: you should get the nickcolor script
[17:59:51] <alex_joni> fenn: what for?
[17:59:59] <SWPadnos> to color in nick, of course
[18:00:06] <SWPadnos> who's nick?
[18:00:12] <alex_joni> I have lines with my nick coloured
[18:00:25] <fenn> it colors all the names differently
[18:00:42] <skunkworks> who is nick?
[18:01:07] <fenn> a channel
[18:01:41] <skunkworks> the linuxcnc irc client doesn't highlight my name when someone calls me.. the only thing I don't like about it.
[18:01:42] <alex_joni> http://imagebin.org/9757
[18:01:55] <alex_joni> skunkworks: who would call your name anyway?
[18:02:13] <jlmjvm> k,im up and running,how should i perform this test?
[18:02:16] <skunkworks> ;:
[18:02:23] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/ace.JPG
[18:03:50] <fenn> slanty scrollbars... what will they think of next
[18:03:52] <cradek> the thing I wonder about swp's image is how can windows still render fonts so badly after all these years?
[18:04:20] <cradek> haha alex's image looks an awful lot like mine.
[18:04:47] <alex_joni> cradek: :)
[18:05:05] <SWPadnos> this install is from 2001
[18:05:20] <fenn> the only reason i switched to irssi is so i can use screen
[18:05:28] <alex_joni> same here
[18:05:27] <SWPadnos> I plan to do that one day
[18:05:48] <cradek> screen sure works for me
[18:06:20] <jlmjvm> cant make it stall
[18:06:31] <SWPadnos> try it at the lower voltage
[18:06:46] <jlmjvm> k,will take a min
[18:06:52] <SWPadnos> before you do that ...
[18:07:10] <SWPadnos> measure the voltage at the gecko power input pins, just to make sure :)
[18:07:19] <jlmjvm> k
[18:07:36] <anonimasu> fenn: screen?
[18:07:40] <anonimasu> fenn: windows you mean?
[18:07:57] <SWPadnos> from any text login
[18:08:00] <fenn> screen is a way of running any console app on any console
[18:08:13] <fenn> you could have the same irssi on ten different computers at the same time
[18:08:33] <jlmjvm> 60v at the pins
[18:08:39] <anonimasu> fenn: I'm well aware what screen is.
[18:08:42] <fenn> or, you could close the window and it would keep running in the background
[18:09:01] <SWPadnos> jlmjvm, ok - just making sure. it seemed very strange that you got no change in top speed with the change in voltage
[18:09:03] <anonimasu> fenn: but I dont see the point why irssi would work better with screen then bitchx, I've ran both for serveral years..
[18:09:09] <fenn> oh, well its simple
[18:09:12] <fenn> bitchx sucks
[18:09:21] <SWPadnos> quit your bitchxing
[18:09:23] <anonimasu> agreed.
[18:09:33] <fenn> anonimasu: before irssi i used xchat
[18:09:38] <anonimasu> fenn: but where did screen come from?
[18:09:51] <SWPadnos> screen has been available for many years
[18:09:57] <anonimasu> ffs..
[18:09:59] <anonimasu> in this conversation.
[18:10:01] <fenn> i dont understand
[18:10:02] <anonimasu> :)
[18:10:02] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:10:07] <anonimasu> 20:12 < fenn> oh, well its simple
[18:10:07] <anonimasu> 20:12 < fenn> bitchx sucks
[18:10:10] <fenn> please restate the question in the form of an answer
[18:10:17] <toast> i hate bitchx too
[18:10:28] <anonimasu> 20:08 < fenn> the only reason i switched to irssi is so i can use screen
[18:10:42] <cradek> I'd like to buy an E
[18:11:04] <anonimasu> cradek: go ask your local dealer.
[18:11:05] <toast> irssi handles multiple servers and many channels more elegantly
[18:11:18] <alex_joni> anonimasu: you know screen?
[18:11:32] <SWPadnos> <anonimasu>fenn: I'm well aware what screen is.
[18:11:37] <anonimasu> "The dungeon collapses, you die."
[18:11:58] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is lost
[18:12:04] <fenn> lost on irc island
[18:12:10] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes back to task, that is more fun
[18:12:10] <anonimasu> alex_joni: me too I dont get fenn's sentence to make sense :)
[18:12:10] <anonimasu> 20:08 < fenn> the only reason i switched to irssi is so i can use screen
[18:12:27] <alex_joni> anonimasu: that means he used an graphical IRC client before
[18:12:39] <alex_joni> then he switched to irssi (text mode) in order to be able to use screen
[18:12:42] <fenn> anonimasu: i want to use the same irc client on multiple computers, cant do that with xchat
[18:12:45] <anonimasu> oh, I thought he used bitchx :D
[18:12:56] <anonimasu> before
[18:12:59] <anonimasu> sorry ^_^
[18:13:33] <fenn> also needed it for some ssh tunneling thing at work
[18:14:19] <fenn> well not quite tunneling but you get the idea
[18:14:59] <anonimasu> yeah
[18:16:28] <fenn> might i take this moment to point out just how neat the inkpot vi color scheme looks in a 256 color terminal
[18:17:19] <cradek> I hear you using "vi" and "color scheme" in a sentence together, but I can't understand it
[18:17:43] <alex_joni> same here
[18:17:48] <fenn> in the background: http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/irc/random-screenshot.jpg
[18:18:18] <fenn> the regular inkpot has a really light gray text but i changed it to sorta flesh-toned
[18:18:25] <jlmjvm> still doing the same thing
[18:19:11] <fenn> cradek: i started using vi because i needed perl syntax highlighting
[18:21:16] <toast> vi a+
[18:23:14] <jlmjvm> im just gonna get some new motors
[18:24:28] <jlmjvm> thanks for the help guys
[18:26:00] <fenn> http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/irc/vim-screenshot.png
[18:45:38] <Martin_Lundstrom> Hello everyone
[18:45:54] <Martin_Lundstrom> Just got back from a sailingtrip in Ireland
[18:50:15] <gene> Hey guys, I just wanted to say thanks for fixing 2.17, I didn't have to do a thing, it just works.
[18:50:17] <toast_> could hal be used for temperature control
[18:50:45] <toast_> like, monitoring a temperature probe, and flipping a solenoid on when it hits a limit
[18:50:54] <toast_> my gut says "Yes?"
[18:51:47] <gene> And one thing I found while running 2.16, I can now jog all 3 axis simultainiously, it was a surprise, but thanks. I'll bet that was a bit of keyboard trickery!
[18:53:44] <danielbr> toat: just use comp.comp
[18:53:56] <toast_> i'm not actually going to do it
[18:54:03] <toast_> it was just a question that popped into my head
[18:54:22] <danielbr> yes you can control anything with hal
[18:54:32] <toast_> ty
[18:54:34] <JymmmEMC> How may licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?
[18:54:35] <danielbr> and hal comps
[18:55:00] <toast_> because i was thinking that a little gumstix-type linux PC + hal would make a great temperature control unit
[18:55:38] <JymmmEMC> toast_: temp control?
[18:55:44] <toast_> yeah
[18:55:47] <JymmmEMC> for?
[18:55:49] <danielbr> yes but you need port emc to gumstick and all rtai
[18:55:56] <toast_> anything you need fine grain temperature control over
[18:56:03] <JymmmEMC> like?
[18:56:05] <toast_> oh, that would suck
[18:56:06] <danielbr> jepler: around?
[18:56:09] <toast_> JymmmEMC: machine tools
[18:56:25] <JymmmEMC> toast_: give an example usage
[18:56:35] <toast_> uh, the temperature control unit for a dimaond turning machine
[18:56:46] <toast_> a temperature control unit for a metrology labratory
[18:56:52] <toast_> for an optics lab
[18:56:57] <toast_> for you apartment
[18:56:59] <toast_> *your
[18:57:06] <toast_> for a coffee cup
[18:57:24] <JymmmEMC> you wouldn't really need RT for that.
[18:57:36] <toast_> nah
[18:57:48] <JymmmEMC> you might have multiple sensors and compare them
[18:58:01] <toast_> well one of the uses is for stratification gauges
[18:58:06] <toast_> 6 temp probes on a pole
[18:58:09] <toast_> or something
[18:58:21] <toast_> to control cfm necssary/fan speed
[18:58:32] <toast_> but that's like the most complicated thing i can think of
[18:58:49] <JymmmEMC> you could do that with a uC alone
[18:58:52] <toast_> all temperature control does is switch a solenoid on and off real fast
[18:59:13] <toast_> and not even that fast
[18:59:40] <toast_> so all one would need is just HAL to monitor the probe and fire the solenoid every three seconds or so
[18:59:50] <JymmmEMC> you could do that with a uC alone
[18:59:56] <toast_> uc?
[19:00:04] <JymmmEMC> microcontroller
[19:00:07] <toast_> yeah, probably
[19:00:27] <toast_> but the other thought was using something like MRTG or Ganglia to give you a neat graph
[19:00:36] <toast_> of all your temperature control stuff
[19:00:45] <JymmmEMC> syslog
[19:00:58] <toast_> you can do that with a microcontroller?
[19:01:04] <toast_> i'm thinking like, a little chip deal
[19:01:12] <toast_> you might be thinking for something else
[19:01:30] <JymmmEMC> syslog aint that complicted, maybe even serial with a ID# per sensor
[19:01:46] <toast_> most of the logging applications require a full linux install
[19:01:58] <toast_> which wouldn't bother me if i were to eventually do it
[19:02:07] <toast_> spending extra cash on the tiny pcs would be the least expensive part
[19:02:11] <JymmmEMC> I have a DOS firewalls/router that does telnet/ftp/syslog
[19:02:19] <toast_> hahah
[19:02:28] <JymmmEMC> fits on a floppy
[19:02:38] <JymmmEMC> runs in under 4MB ram diskless
[19:02:53] <JymmmEMC> even does IPSEC
[19:02:58] <toast_> that's awesome
[19:04:02] <toast_> the other advantage would be to send an alarm to a cellphone
[19:04:06] <toast_> if the thermal load on the room or on a machine
[19:04:10] <toast_> was reaching the limit
[19:04:34] <toast_> all just dreaming though.
[19:08:12] <fenn> toast_: gumstix is way overkill for something like temperature control
[19:08:18] <JymmmEMC> toast_: =)
[19:08:33] <fenn> toast_: read up on avr microcontrollers.. they're awesome
[19:09:00] <toast_> googlin'
[19:09:00] <fenn> actually yesterday i made a temperature controller out of two transistors and a relay
[19:09:11] <toast_> well this is something i'd like to be more active
[19:09:14] <toast_> if i were to ever do it
[19:09:21] <toast_> it needs a log to be useful
[19:09:33] <fenn> yep, you can do that pretty easily with an avr
[19:09:41] <fenn> write to an sd card for example
[19:09:52] <toast_> can it handle a display
[19:09:53] <fenn> or rs232 to a pc
[19:10:07] <toast_> the other option would be to use a PC with multiple parallel ports
[19:10:16] <toast_> an old pc
[19:10:17] <fenn> you cant really drive a crt directly but lcd's are good enough for most things
[19:10:29] <fenn> lcd modules like on a calculator sorta
[19:11:04] <fenn> like this http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16081
[19:12:05] <toast_> hmm
[19:12:18] <toast_> i guess i'm looking at the price of the gumstix-type stuff in comparison with the rest of the equipment
[19:12:21] <toast_> and it's small
[19:12:39] <fenn> what if you want 50 of them?
[19:12:54] <fenn> attiny26 is $1.30
[19:13:32] <toast_> i guess it's sort of like, there appears to be a lot more work with the microcontroller
[19:13:42] <fenn> i doubt it
[19:13:49] <fenn> code's already written i bet
[19:14:03] <toast_> dunno
[19:14:51] <toast_> the best idea would probably be to use a PC
[19:15:00] <toast_> with a bunch of expansion parallel ports
[19:15:07] <fenn> sure whatever
[19:16:14] <toast_> i mean that way you only have one
[19:16:22] <toast_> no matter how many probe setups you want to use.
[19:17:42] <SWPadnos> A PC has no analog input ports by default (with the possible exception of very crappy input from a joystick port)
[19:18:05] <SWPadnos> parallel ports aren't useful for temperature data, unless you have a smart probe of some sort
[19:18:24] <toast_> yeah, the thought was to use a digital to analog converter
[19:18:27] <toast_> or something
[19:18:37] <SWPadnos> you'd probably end up with a microcontroller anyway, to convert from the raw analog data to something that the PC can interpret
[19:18:46] <SWPadnos> analog to digital, I imagine :)
[19:18:54] <toast_> hahaha
[19:19:00] <toast_> yeah, that.
[19:19:07] <fenn> DAC and a comparator :D
[19:19:16] <fenn> just a couple resistors really
[19:19:24] <SWPadnos> yep - or just an RC circuit and a comparator
[19:19:28] <toast_> ?
[19:19:45] <SWPadnos> you can get 6 bits easily
[19:20:16] <toast_> i need to take electronics classes
[19:20:17] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:20:24] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC bites SWPadnos 6 times
[19:20:33] <fenn> pff.. school
[19:20:49] <fenn> just do it
[19:20:50] <SWPadnos> I've done crap A/D with only two external components (total cost of ~$0.005) on PIC and AVR chips
[19:20:50] <jmkasunich> temperature changes slowly - there are lots of ways to implement slow A/D converters
[19:20:55] <SWPadnos> yep
[19:21:07] <toast_> this kind of temperature control has a very rapid change
[19:21:18] <SWPadnos> the A/D it is :)
[19:21:19] <jmkasunich> how rapid?
[19:21:24] <toast_> under three seconds
[19:21:25] <fenn> not rapid on an electronic time scale
[19:21:29] <toast_> for on/off events
[19:21:32] <SWPadnos> that's slow for a microcontroller
[19:21:40] <SWPadnos> or an A/D
[19:21:42] <fenn> thats 60 million cpu cycles
[19:21:49] <toast_> yeah, but i was referring to the slow temperature change thing
[19:22:05] <toast_> not that it was slow from the electronics standpoint
[19:22:09] <toast_> er fast
[19:22:28] <SWPadnos> oh - jmkasunich, check out this A/D: http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,2877,AD7656,00.html
[19:22:45] <JymmmEMC> toast_: (maybe SWPadnos too) ftp://ftp.eunet.bg/pub/simtelnet/msdos/network/iprv094.zip
[19:22:52] <toast_> those are kind of cheap!
[19:23:01] <SWPadnos> 6 channel, 250 kSPS (per channel, I think), simultaneous sampling, SPI (or "QSPI"), 16 bits resolution ...
[19:23:53] <jmkasunich> impressive
[19:23:59] <jmkasunich> and cheaper than I expected
[19:24:02] <SWPadnos> yeah
[19:24:07] <SWPadnos> too bad I can't get any until the end of the month :(
[19:24:33] <SWPadnos> I'll use that one if I can fit the schedule around it
[19:24:46] <jmkasunich> its brand new?
[19:24:55] <SWPadnos> oh yeah - true bipolar input - woohoo!
[19:24:58] <SWPadnos> no, just not available
[19:25:06] <SWPadnos> it's too good for the price, so I guess it's popular
[19:25:15] <JymmmEMC> $17 is cheap?
[19:25:23] <SWPadnos> $26 is cheap
[19:25:25] <jmkasunich> for 6 channels, yes
[19:25:29] <SWPadnos> that's the single unit price
[19:25:36] <jmkasunich> thats less than $3 a channel
[19:25:41] <jmkasunich> for 16 bits that is very cheap
[19:25:50] <JymmmEMC> ea channel being 16 bit?
[19:25:53] <SWPadnos> (single units is $4.50/channel, but still cheap)
[19:25:55] <SWPadnos> yes
[19:25:55] <jmkasunich> yep
[19:26:01] <JymmmEMC> not bad
[19:26:04] <toast_> so like if the temperature probe turns out to only have a small voltage change over the range i am looking for
[19:26:08] <toast_> how hard is it to amplify it
[19:26:15] <toast_> with moderate accuracy
[19:26:16] <SWPadnos> and it uses a single clock with one or three data lines, at up to 30 MHz
[19:26:24] <toast_> so that i can use up more of the range on the converter
[19:26:27] <jmkasunich> toast_: op-amp and some resistors
[19:26:32] <toast_> so "easyish"
[19:26:43] <SWPadnos> or an instrumentation amp, like the IN118
[19:26:46] <jmkasunich> depending on the accuracy required, anywhere from $0.25 to $5.00 or so
[19:26:50] <toast_> cool
[19:27:24] <jmkasunich> if you are using theromcouples, then cold junction compensations and such makes it more complicated
[19:27:38] <jmkasunich> along with the fact that thermocouples are measured in microvolts per degree
[19:27:40] <SWPadnos> oops - INA118
[19:27:47] <fenn> dont use thermocouples :)
[19:27:53] <toast_> i don't believe i'm using a thermocouple
[19:28:00] <SWPadnos> thermistor?
[19:28:08] <toast_> i believe so?
[19:28:14] <toast_> i don't know enough about the probes themselves yet
[19:28:48] <JymmmEMC> toast_: PTC?
[19:28:50] <jmkasunich> somebody else is telling you what you have to use?
[19:28:51] <fenn> is this something you're making from scratch or hacking on a system that's already in place?
[19:29:03] <toast_> if it were, hypothetically, to be done
[19:29:10] <toast_> it would be from scratch
[19:29:30] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: did you grab that link?
[19:29:32] <toast_> like i said in the beginning, this isn't something i'm trying to do at present
[19:29:36] <toast_> just curious about
[19:29:51] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, no, what is it?
[19:30:01] <fenn> i recommend starting with basic electronics before getting into microcontrollers
[19:30:05] <toast_> yeah
[19:30:10] <tomp> did ballendo write ace converter?
[19:30:21] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: check it out, just open the 50k text file
[19:30:25] <fenn> i thought ballendo was a troll?
[19:30:36] <SWPadnos> that's what some think. others think he's god
[19:30:43] <tomp> http://code.arc.cmu.edu/~ellendo/CNC/ace%20G%20code/src/
[19:31:04] <tomp> stop a head pay troll
[19:31:49] <fenn> ffs no comments
[19:32:16] <fenn> and no copyright statement
[19:32:18] <JymmmEMC> fenn: you noticed that oo huh
[19:32:23] <JymmmEMC> too
[19:32:29] <JymmmEMC> no comments at all
[19:32:39] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/task/emctaskmain.cc: fix bug #1680007 Single-step can get stuck on dwell
[19:33:08] <tomp> author was Doug Yeager
[19:34:19] <tomp> Borland C++ version 5.02( i think thats the freebie borland notc tools )
[19:34:27] <SWPadnos> copyright is owned by Doug Yeager - it wasn't necessarily written by him
[19:34:36] <tomp> ah, right
[19:34:49] <tomp> it's mine i tell you!
[19:35:03] <jmkasunich> there is only one true C complier, and its name is gcc
[19:35:23] <fenn> cc
[19:35:33] <tomp> the 11th commandment " there is only one true C complier, and its name is gcc "
[19:35:36] <SWPadnos> mingW32
[19:35:55] <SWPadnos> bcc32 is pretty darned good too
[19:36:05] <SWPadnos> but gcc is certainly more portable
[19:36:12] <fenn> argh wth is with gnu and their no man pages
[19:36:13] <SWPadnos> by virtue of being portable at all
[19:36:56] <jmkasunich> fenn: that ticks me off too
[19:37:44] <fenn> ah i had to get gcc-doc to get the man pages
[19:37:51] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: show the G5x code that activates the coordinate system in the touch off dialog
[19:37:51] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/share/axis/tcl/axis.tcl: show the G5x code that activates the coordinate system in the touch off dialog
[19:44:21] <cradek> wow, this must be the weekend to ask for features
[19:46:34] <lerneaen_hydra> anyone know which document class the EMC user manual is based on?
[20:03:58] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: \textclass book
[20:04:03] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, funny
[20:04:11] <alex_joni> why?
[20:04:21] <lerneaen_hydra> what's the introductory text classed as? the one that's right after the front page?
[20:05:05] <lerneaen_hydra> and how do you get the pagenumbers to start as i,ii,....,vi,vii.1,2,3,...,45,46,47
[20:05:43] <alex_joni> I forgot :)
[20:05:46] <alex_joni> use the source luke
[20:06:03] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm you mean the textclass file?
[20:06:20] <Skullworks-PGAB> OK group, I thru togather a XP200+ system last night and used an old live CD to load it (10/2006)
[20:06:39] <cradek> lerneaen_hydra: first google hit: http://web.image.ufl.edu/help/latex/intext.shtml
[20:06:56] <Skullworks-PGAB> I had never used the live CD before - had the ISO on the HDD but never burned it
[20:06:58] <lerneaen_hydra> ... what did you google for?
[20:07:08] <cradek> LaTeX page number i ii
[20:07:14] <Skullworks-PGAB> Sweet simplicity - thanks
[20:07:23] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek: ... right.
[20:07:28] <lerneaen_hydra> and why didn't I think of that
[20:07:31] <lerneaen_hydra> thanks :)
[20:07:35] <cradek> * cradek beats google with a stick
[20:07:51] <cradek> Skullworks-PGAB: great to hear that
[20:09:41] <cradek> lerneaen_hydra: my favorite LaTex reference is "lshort2e" aka The Not So Short Introduction to LaTeX 2e
[20:09:57] <lerneaen_hydra> ah, sounds nice
[20:10:24] <cradek> google (for lshort2e) finds it everywhere
[20:10:55] <lerneaen_hydra> sweet, easy to understand for beginners?
[20:11:34] <cradek> not sure, but it's a good reference for me as a forgetful non-beginner
[20:11:36] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ finally got the power back on here at work..
[20:11:41] <lerneaen_hydra> sounds good
[20:11:50] <Skullworks-PGAB> previously I had done std loads and used the install script.
[20:12:08] <Skullworks-PGAB> Live CD was way faster
[20:12:49] <cradek> then it's a success - the goal was to be as fast/simple as possible
[20:13:56] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ had actually installed it on bdi back in the day.. Boy I feel old.. ;)
[20:16:58] <skunkworks_> ok - that was maybe only a few years ago
[20:17:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> I used BDI up until 2.0 was almost ready
[20:18:56] <Skullworks-PGAB> only as a sim using stepper config - to test my CAM output as I tried to tweak the post.
[20:32:39] <lerneaen_hydra> I'm currently writing some documentation for the mill I retrofitted, and would like to take some bits verbatim off the EMC user manual and integrator manual, have I interpreted the GPL FDL correctly in that if I denote which sections are copied and have a short header text then that's allI need to do?
[20:41:10] <fenn> as long as you arent "distributing" it, i dont think it matters what you do at all
[20:41:32] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: sure
[20:42:19] <lerneaen_hydra> fenn: oh, if I don't distribute it I don't* need anything at all? *to be legal
[20:42:23] <alex_joni> fenn: if he plans on putting it on his webpage, then I think that counts as distributing
[20:43:18] <lerneaen_hydra> it's not exactly difficult to add 3 lines
[20:49:09] <Ziegler> my first emc install was on a gentoo box about 3 or 4 years ago...
[21:06:28] <alex_joni> what is M0 ?
[21:12:48] <cradek> * cradek gently directs alex_joni to the gcode quickref
[21:13:09] <cradek> (pause)
[21:13:22] <alex_joni> why does it show up under active m-codes?
[21:13:31] <alex_joni> while a program is running?
[21:14:05] <cradek> seems bogus to me
[21:14:34] <cradek> actually it's always there, even if I type M2
[21:15:14] <skunkworks_> what about m30?
[21:15:59] <cradek> it also shows M2 all the time
[21:17:46] <JymmmEMC> argh!
[21:18:04] <JymmmEMC> fscking lawyers
[21:19:15] <JymmmEMC> I never thought a Power of Attorney was so frinken complicated!
[21:19:45] <SWPadnos> of cuorse - you have to spell out *exactly* what the power applies to
[21:20:16] <JymmmEMC> I wnat everying, but stating everything doesn't count in the US
[21:20:27] <JymmmEMC> unless it says DURABLE
[21:20:42] <JymmmEMC> There's a
[21:21:09] <JymmmEMC> Financial POA, Durable Financial POA, a Health POA, A Durable health POA
[21:21:39] <JymmmEMC> Then when you read the verbage, it's real ify...
[21:22:45] <JymmmEMC> Here's the catch22... "When your physicans says your incapable is when the POA goes into effect, but NOLO says that means you cna't get any medical info till the doctor says "it's too late".
[21:27:00] <SWPadnos> heh - catch-22's are why we have lawyers (one of the reasons anyway) :)
[21:27:09] <SWPadnos> food time. bbiab
[21:32:28] <toast_> ff
[21:32:34] <toast_> JymmmEMC: what are you doing?
[21:35:41] <alex_joni> toast_: wot's ff?
[21:36:23] <toast_> fff is a noise
[21:36:27] <toast_> "ffff"
[21:36:29] <toast_> say "f"
[21:36:35] <toast_> and just keep saying it for awhile.
[21:36:44] <toast_> one long noise.
[21:37:30] <Skullworks-PGAB> sounds like a warn out aircompressor running slow
[21:40:13] <alex_joni> these are exactly the things I need to motivate me to get back to boring bug-hunting
[21:41:41] <skunkworks_> So - running a 6 wire stepper in series bipolar -(using the whole coil) vs running series (1/2 of the 2 coils) any insite?
[21:42:07] <skunkworks_> sorry - ment for the second point - parallel
[21:43:45] <Ziegler> doesnt gecko have something one thier site about that?
[21:44:15] <Ziegler> http://www.geckodrive.com/photos/Step_motor_basics.pdf
[21:44:41] <skunkworks_> hmm - have to look.. Do they give an idea about how they might perform?
[21:45:46] <Ziegler> yeah... I think so
[21:47:44] <skunkworks_> thank you
[21:49:06] <Ziegler> I just skimmed it... I dont really see anything...
[21:50:19] <Ziegler> this might say something also: http://pminmo.com/6wire/6wire.htm
[21:51:26] <Ziegler> maybe not.
[21:51:38] <Ziegler> I know I have seen this info some place
[21:52:38] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: the gecko manuals for g201 have somethign about that
[21:53:30] <Ziegler> cool
[21:54:04] <Ziegler> http://www.pminmo.com/wiki/index.php?title=8wiremotors
[22:04:13] <Ziegler> If a motor is connected in series or full winding, the
[22:04:11] <Ziegler> motor’s phase current rating is half of its parallel or unipolar rating. The choice depends on the high-speed performance required;
[22:04:11] <Ziegler> a parallel-connected motor will provide twice the power of a series-connected motor at the same power supply voltage.
[22:05:13] <Ziegler> I assume this means at a slower speed?
[22:05:23] <skunkworks_> that is what I am assuming
[22:05:29] <SWPadnos> I don't think that's true for 6-wire motors though
[22:06:44] <Ziegler> I bet motor manufac has curves for each configuration
[22:06:44] <skunkworks_> the engraver I have has 6 wire steppers.. I can run it both ways and see what works the best for me..
[22:07:21] <skunkworks_> 1.5A
[22:07:23] <SWPadnos> I think 6-wire bipolar can be run only in series or half-winding (anyone know if that's true?)
[22:07:24] <cradek> coils in parallel worked much better for my 8-wires
[22:07:44] <Ziegler> better how?
[22:07:48] <SWPadnos> twice the power
[22:07:49] <skunkworks_> parrallel on these would mean using half of the coil..
[22:07:50] <cradek> power/high speed
[22:08:12] <SWPadnos> skunkworks_ ok, that means "not really parallel" :)
[22:08:23] <Ziegler> so why would you want to ever run them in series?
[22:08:26] <skunkworks_> I could pop the cover off and see if I could separate the center tap.
[22:08:50] <Ziegler> 0_o
[22:08:52] <SWPadnos> darned good question
[22:09:05] <skunkworks_> so then I wonder what is better - series or 1/2 coil.. ;)
[22:09:17] <SWPadnos> (the series question, not the "I think I'll disassemble and probably destroy my stepper motors" comment :)
[22:09:24] <Ziegler> skunkworks I dont think that is the only difference between 6 and 8 wire... I could be wrong
[22:09:39] <skunkworks_> I have actually done the separation of the center tap on some other steppers
[22:09:50] <SWPadnos> 8-wire motors can be wired any way tou please. 6-wire motors lose the ability to do parallel bipolar
[22:09:56] <SWPadnos> s/tou/you/
[22:10:59] <Ziegler> http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/types.html
[22:11:18] <SWPadnos> skunkworks_ I think the only reason to use half-winding is if you can't use a high enough voltage to use full winding
[22:11:40] <Skullworks-PGAB> amps not volts
[22:12:01] <SWPadnos> volts make amps in inductors - the more volts, the faster you get enough amps to do work
[22:12:47] <Skullworks-PGAB> true - but the load is 3.0 amps in serial connection vrs 4.2A in parallel
[22:12:57] <SWPadnos> the series voltage is double the half-winding voltage, so if you're trying to get to the recommended 20-25x voltage range, you may be limited by the 80V gecko limit
[22:13:11] <SWPadnos> parallel is not the same as half-winding
[22:13:23] <Skullworks-PGAB> true
[22:13:39] <skunkworks_> SWPadnos: ah - I am planning on using the 75v oem650 drives.. SO I ill try series.
[22:13:54] <Skullworks-PGAB> 1/2 winding is same as unipolar rating - 3.0A
[22:13:58] <SWPadnos> what's the voltage rating of the motor in series?
[22:14:12] <SWPadnos> right - you're just using half the coils
[22:17:11] <skunkworks_> I think it is 4.5v or something like that
[22:17:44] <skunkworks_> the pmnio site says series should be .707 of rated voltage..
[22:17:59] <SWPadnos> huh?
[22:18:19] <SWPadnos> that should depend on how the manufacturer rates their motor - half, full, series, parallel, some combo ...
[22:18:28] <Ziegler> http://www.ams2000.com/stepping101.html#types
[22:18:41] <skunkworks_> SWPadnos: http://pminmo.com/6wire/6wire.htm
[22:18:45] <Ziegler> http://www.ams2000.com/images/ref-guide-p6-f1.gif
[22:18:59] <skunkworks_> current rating confusion line.
[22:19:46] <Ziegler> parallel seems to flatten out torque a bit.. .but over all give you higher torque at the greater speeds compared to serries
[22:20:12] <Ziegler> seems to me parallel would be the way to go
[22:20:17] <Ziegler> for most apps
[22:20:30] <Ziegler> unless you need high torque at low speed
[22:20:46] <skunkworks_> or a 6 wire stepper.. ;)
[22:21:04] <SWPadnos> I'm reasonably sure that Mariss has said that - soemthing like "parallel is better - use parallel"
[22:22:42] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure why the series current rating would be lower - the coils can take the same current. it may be a power/heating thing
[22:22:59] <Ziegler> I think I am wired for serries on my machine
[22:23:01] <skunkworks_> sorry - I ment .707 X rated current for series
[22:23:36] <SWPadnos> sure - either V or I makes no sense there, unless it's for power/heating problems
[22:24:00] <SWPadnos> if each half of the wire can take 1A, then the two halves in series acan also take 1A
[22:24:14] <skunkworks_> interesting.
[22:24:47] <SWPadnos> that's from a pure power transmission point of view - I don't know enough about the construction of steppers (without looking) to know any differently :)
[22:30:15] <jmkasunich> its an amp-turn thing
[22:30:30] <SWPadnos> too much flux for the core?
[22:30:35] <jmkasunich> yeah
[22:30:40] <SWPadnos> ah. ok
[22:30:55] <jmkasunich> if you have two 100 turn windings, in series, with 1A total, that is 200 amp-turns
[22:31:12] <jmkasunich> put them in parallel with 2A total, you get 1A per winding, still 200 amp-turns
[22:40:39] <skunkworks_> For a full-winding connection, the center tap is ignored and both end wires are used. The term
[22:40:58] <skunkworks_> 201cfull-winding201d is exactly equivalent to 201cseries201d connected while 201chalf-winding201d is virtually identical to
[22:41:05] <skunkworks_> 201cparallel201d connected. The choice between the two is application dependent, which is discussed
[22:41:17] <skunkworks_> later; just remember to set the drive current to exactly half of the motor2019s rated unipolar current
[22:41:26] <skunkworks_> rating
[22:41:36] <skunkworks_> ^ marris
[22:43:12] <skunkworks_> which setup do you need to set the current to half? It is a bit vauge
[22:43:38] <alex_joni> series
[22:43:58] <skunkworks_> that is what I thought.. thanks
[22:53:46] <jmkasunich> unipolar = full current thru one winding, series = half current thru two windings = same amp-turns
[23:04:31] <Ziegler> blink
[23:04:49] <Ziegler> I need to put a spread sheet together... .or some sort of table that shows an example
[23:05:04] <Ziegler> explains pro/cons
[23:05:12] <Ziegler> but first... I got to get my head strait on it
[23:27:56] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/shcom.cc: fix bug #1735431 (stepping after verify works oddly). this probably affected tkemc and mini
[23:28:49] <cradek> yay
[23:28:58] <alex_joni> cradek: this was soo stupid
[23:29:51] <cradek> oh, I see that (in the diff email)
[23:30:04] <cradek> you still get credit for fixing it, you know
[23:30:13] <alex_joni> cradek: yeah, but it had such a terrible effect
[23:34:40] <Skullworks-PGAB> so has use of XEMC been abandoned in EMC2?
[23:35:03] <alex_joni> nope
[23:35:08] <alex_joni> it's there
[23:35:21] <alex_joni> Skullworks-PGAB: why do you ask?
[23:37:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> just thinking that if I was trying to do an ultra lite EMC install - something that wasn't using an interpreter for a front end might mean less CPU usage
[23:37:28] <cradek> yes xemc is very light
[23:37:41] <Skullworks-PGAB> a compiled front end maybe
[23:37:45] <cradek> but, it's a little lean on the features too
[23:38:05] <Skullworks-PGAB> true
[23:39:11] <alex_joni> there's also keystick
[23:39:46] <fenn> why not just run the gui on a real computer
[23:39:57] <fenn> over ssh or an nml network connection
[23:40:03] <Skullworks-PGAB> point being people have a choice if they want full features they need a system that can handle it - but to run from a 300MHz box XEMC might get by.
[23:40:28] <fenn> you dont need to worry about the gui for a 300 mhz box
[23:41:44] <Skullworks-PGAB> I'm thinking of trying to do a puppy build for 2.1.7 since that seems to have stagnated.
[23:42:01] <fenn> you should look at "damn small linux" instead
[23:42:22] <fenn> its better, more flexible, larger user base, etc
[23:43:03] <Skullworks-PGAB> how is the on boot pnp support
[23:43:11] <fenn> i have no idea
[23:43:26] <Skullworks-PGAB> puppy has ran on everything I tried it on down to a P166
[23:43:42] <Skullworks-PGAB> P166 laptop
[23:44:03] <Ziegler> xemc?
[23:44:14] <fenn> Ziegler: a gui based on X athena widgets
[23:44:46] <Ziegler> come with the debian install?
[23:45:51] <jmkasunich> have you considered xubuntu
[23:45:57] <jmkasunich> its a lot lighter than ubuntu
[23:46:11] <jmkasunich> I've run it on a 166MHz lappy
[23:46:17] <jmkasunich> it = emc
[23:49:15] <Ziegler> thats what I do
[23:49:54] <cradek> I easily ran full ubuntu + emc2/axis on a P2 300
[23:49:58] <Ziegler> I run axis on x-ubuntu 350 MHz (might be 450) 64 meg of ram
[23:49:59] <Skullworks-PGAB> might give them all a try - looking for something that can free up most the system resources (user space) so EMC can have a majority of the CPU
[23:50:16] <cradek> I doubt anyone would not be able to come up with at least that much of a computer
[23:50:40] <fenn> Skullworks-PGAB: why would it matter if emc "had the majority of the cpu" when its running a realtime OS?
[23:51:25] <fenn> i'm looking at running on a 200mhz thin client (so i can get away without having any cpu fan)
[23:51:50] <jmkasunich> right - the symptom of a not powerfull enough computer is NOT EMC screwing up, its the rest of the system getting sluggish because EMC is taking all the CPU
[23:52:29] <jmkasunich> now if you mean "so the EMC GUI can have the majority of the CPU" that is valid
[23:52:52] <jmkasunich> the GUI will get sluggish just like everything else if there isn't enough processing power
[23:53:26] <Skullworks-PGAB> actually my goal was to reduce GUI load
[23:53:55] <jmkasunich> have you tried running top while EMC is running?
[23:54:06] <Skullworks-PGAB> top?
[23:54:11] <jmkasunich> is the EMC gui near the top of the list
[23:54:19] <jmkasunich> yeah, top
[23:54:28] <jmkasunich> man top
[23:54:31] <Ziegler> http://mirror.anl.gov/pub/ubuntu-iso/DVDs/xubuntu/6.06.1/release.1/
[23:54:44] <jmkasunich> it shows the tasks that are running, and their resource usage
[23:54:48] <Ziegler> grab the alternate install for old computers
[23:55:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> ok
[23:55:10] <danielbr> cradek_ tank you very much for fix 38.2, A axis probing is working now in trunk
[23:55:42] <danielbr> thanks
[23:55:44] <jmkasunich> Skullworks-PGAB: it has been said that premature optimization is the root of all evil
[23:55:59] <fenn> something like that
[23:56:12] <jmkasunich> trying to reduce usage when you don't really know what is using the most is premature optimization
[23:56:29] <jmkasunich> top is a very basic tool to actually understand what is taking up CPU time and what isn't
[23:56:29] <Skullworks-PGAB> ok
[23:58:08] <cradek> danielbr: no it's not working fully
[23:58:19] <Skullworks-PGAB> my 2 EMC boxes are not "over loaded" so it isn't an issue, but I wanted to see if I could run EMC on some K6-300 systems I have
[23:58:44] <cradek> danielbr: it doesn't set the parameter that says where the probe tripped, if probing A
[23:59:07] <danielbr> oh
[23:59:25] <cradek> (I think)
[23:59:38] <jmkasunich> probably the biggest obstacle to using the preferred Live CD form of EMC has nothing at all to do with EMC and everything to do with the RAM needs during live CD startup and installation
[23:59:40] <cradek> but I checked in the partial fix in case someone else wants to look at it