then quickly reverse the machine
when the tap stops
yup... trying to gain experienc are ya...LOL
you and your fancy equipment =((((
none was mine... all customers.. or trade shows
we had 1 machine at a show.. that was already sold.... owner come by seen me pounding the SNOT outta his new machine... asked how many yrs i figure it could do that...
told him probably 20 or so.... he ordered another that day...
no not a TOSHIBA
OH DID I NAIL IT?
is it mori seiki?
they use toshibas to make all the other jap machines
i'm not really familiar with ALL that many makes and varities of CNC machine
[00:04:38] <dmessier> http://toshibamachine.ca/
neat looking machines!
it was the MPF - ds series
and some dude bought another machine
because you hammered on one?
i kind of want to hear this
some came with orbit boring capabilities... turns a horizontal machining center into a lathe
or close to a lathe =/
interpolates an x-y circle as it points the nose of a bbar at the center of the part
and moves in z as a lathe
x-y circles can define tapers rads etc.
so the part stand still and the bbar spins
i just don't like the issues involving the steps
that a lathe doesn't have for a true rotary axis
stepping the tool
to interpolate a circle
no... its interpolating the tool as a lathe.. you could not tell it wasnt a turned finish
i know what you are saying
still single pointing it
the problem is that it's not a true rotary axis
and doesn't have the rotational performance of one
in terms of accuracy
but that's probably not an issue where it would be employed
or if it is they use a ballbar to make sure the machine will do it
i'm just freaked out with a lot of the crap people are trying to get away with
true.. we had a set of spreadsheets you had to run all speed and feeds thru to meet circularity bogey
it's hard to come up with examples
but that is a clear one
CMMs are another
for checking EEVVVERRYYTHING
i do enjoy the idea of milling on a lathe
but not turning on a mill
swiss lathes bug me
most of the modern ones, anyway
swiss lathe == screw machine?
just the spindle
there's two of them
one's a static guide bushing
and the spindle is the Z axis
pushing and pulling the stock through the guide bushing
modern CNCs are starting to use regular collets
instead of real guide bushings
and they use gang tools
similar to screw machines
except instead of having like, multiple tools run at the same time
it's all one at a time!
more of a retarded lathe
instead of a hybrid screw machine
ive accomplished some near impossible on some nearly obsolete equipment...
well this is new and retarded equipment
not old and obsolete, which usually just means "good but slow"
screw machines... are a devil ALL thier on.... THEY ARE THE MOST EFFICIENT machine on this plant
yes but imagine if you made a machine as difficult to set as a screw machine
screw machines are those that are programmed with a cam, right?
but had none of the efficiency
even old cam ones... i love working them... pack a zig-zag papers in your pocket and off you go... 1 scrapper.. and a vew papers later a good part... as she warmed up... you pulled papers from stops...
zigs are .001" ... dry... wet .0004
ive set up cnc screws and although nice for swap over... if you can leave it set up as we did... it CANT be beat
so i hear!
we had 30 parts set and ready to roll on 30 machines.... 8-10 k per machine investment
cheap by cnc standards
i've tried to get work to buy one
a multi-spindle, i hear they're slower but easier to set
than the single spindles
are on the PIPE
are smokin crack???
no, i was talking about this with some gentlemen who did it for a living
multi's make a part in the longest tools cycle time.... NOT the cumulative time of all tools...
these guys were saying they got most of the part done simultaniously
and that since the single tool indexed much faster, they got more parts per minute
they are for big #s.. set-ups a biatch..
we have like, the same ten parts we make
and we make like 100
but it takes a week
if setup takes one or two days, but running only takes half a day
that's time saved even though setup sucks
and it's the same damn parts
is it all collet work??
the problem is some parts have back-work
so we'd need a second op
how do you do back work on a multi-spindle?
i don't believe i've seen one of those
not multi... is your way to go
search DMG twin 32
well not big
3" and 4"
most aren't that big, but yes, in bar
comes with fanuc controls
well i was more looking at like the 8-10k solution
then you sub all the work to me and it'll be ok
yeah this stuff is new
we aren't looking at "new" machines
no 1980's ish equipment
it's all academic though
they are awful at buying machines
chk em out.. i seen a few little ones on ebay
we are operating with like bare bones equipment
i find it hilarious
we have two planers, actually
but the engineers broke them trying to turn them into other things
which is sad, because we have jobs that would be amazing to run on the planers
well at least you can make something flat...
well, we could
until they broke them
plus nobody there knows what a planer does except me
"hey a machine with a big table, let's buy two"
but still in amazing condition
we also have ridiculous bore requirements
and machines that can't hold it
it's great stuff
lerman_ is now known as lerman
how do you break a planer?
same way you break any machine
you start makin' it do sumtin else???
any one need a nice SNK 3 spindle verticle machinig center... probably sell for a steal...
has hardly wrked in our place
ran... always ready to work...
its my poor WHITE ELEPHANT
they wont let me run it as a single spindle vert... and 3 of everything is tooooo expensive these days
i just hate walking past it these days
Beutifull machine sitting STILL for 9-10 mnonths or the yr.. last 2 yrs..
of the yr
Trying to file this block even aint happening... I'm starting to bevel the edges =(
on the return stroke that is
a file only works 1 way... lift it on the back stroke
hold yur fingers tight oto the plate.. alighn the file square and stroke... lift.. retract.. repeat.. as reqiuired
your draw filing i presume??
file at 90 deg to plate
cause strkin' across'll fackit all up
mowed the lawn to work off some frutstration
took apart and lubed the lawn mower too
fscking grease gun... leaks and it's in 12 plastic bags
file is fixed, drawing block across file againest a 2x6 al angle
awesome suface plates
good machines when we still has skilled tradesmen to run them... now everyone is a tec'y of some sort
one would think a planer is a perfect machine for a black and white move... one where the villian ties the hero down on and turns on after twiddling his mustache and letting out a evil laugh
we are/and will lose our grass roots manual machineists to safety regs..
yup... thats the one
ds2: did you see the long planer on youtube?
[02:57:30] <jmkasunich> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiBG-Hpd1ZU
got an extractor script? I don't permit my browsers to run flash and my current script no longer works
but many old one had side milling heads and stuff... set up an POUND thru
just need to pull the FLV out and I am set
that part must be 15 feet long at least
the only "planner" I've ever seen in person was made into a nice bench
old equipment put the man on the moon... dont discredit it..
the clapper box on this one seems to be automatic
THAT ist a true planer
too bad I am not in the rust belt or I'd go look for a small shaper just to have one
ds2: I am in the rust belt, and I can tell you that _small_ shapers are rare and surprisingly expensive
3000lb ones on the other hand aren't too hard to find
shapers are usefull anchors
jmkasunich: really? thought sears sold the atlas one and they as common as the atlas lathes?
I've seen exactly one small shaper in several years of prowling surplus places
south bend 7"
and I still kick myself for not buying it
i loved walking that machine all over the shop... ; )
but at the time I needed a drillpress more
I've seen a number of 20-30" ones, usually for $150 or so
don't the SB ones fetch their weight in gold just cuz of hte SB name?
till the cord pulled out
going rate is about $700 I think
the one I saw 5+ years ago, the guy wanted $250, because he specialized in woodworking stuff and wanted to get rid of it
wel worth the price
hence the kicking
BOOT to the head
jmkasunich: I hate when that happens. Went to flea market saw a opto22 relay board filled with 20 relays, wanted $20. and to think about it and when I came 20 minutes later.... POOF!
i lost a a lathe last nit on ebay.... over 300.00 dollars
i have some of them... you need opto22 relay...
not 20... but maybe 6 or 8
dmessier: Just need two SSR now.
that big planer takes 38 seconds to make one pass
i'll look in the basement... may need a trip to the storage unit.. but i have some from BARDER_AIR pneumatic PLC
and it looks like its taking a chip 1/2" wide
the ones i seen couldnt work that SMALL
wonder how big of a grinder you'd need to make bits for
ds2: Thanks though. I'll probably order these ($1 more for 40A instead of 20A) http://cgi.ebay.com/Solid-State-Relays-SSR-24-220V-DC-40A-Heat-Sink_W0QQitemZ230156508112QQihZ013QQcategoryZ78207QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
ds2: includes heatsink
ds2: just look,
how small you need them??
ds2: the toolholder looks like it has a 1 or 1.5" shank, tool itself is 1/2" square HSS
ds2: I only need 15A, but I can buy spare at same time and if there's a need for higher later on, I'll have it.
jmkasunich: you talk a wood planer?
when would you use that?
oh direct import
metal planer is totally different than a wood planer
the work moves in a straight line, and the tool is stationary
it for making long straight things
ds2: yeah, brand new and w/ LED
jmkasunich: for making things straight?
planes makes things flat
jmkasunich: what stock doens't coem straight?
suppose you need a long straight dovetail
also good for cutting keyways, channels, etc
besides, ALL stock comes crooked
Shit... I could use that RIGHT NOW!
beats the heck out of filing, eh?
It's not even the filing itself, it's the keeping everything flat part
Now I have -------------------\____
better than it was, but...
is it scraping?
there's some kind of spindle I cna't see?
the tool is almost exactly the same as a lathe tool
but instead of spinning the work, it just moves it straight under the tool
no spindle at all
there is no spindle!
each pass of the table makes a single cut 20 feet (or whatever) long
Ok, so the stock is being drawn across the tool?
it is sort of like a chisel in woodworking
that long bar is the part they are making
sorry, that's what I meant by scraping... the tool is scraping across th material
yeah lathe lookin chip... spindle feed combo...maybe were hi-speed milln started
just not rotary
Hmmm, I wonder if a mini version of that could be made
unlike woodworking scrapers, this removes a lot of stock
JymmmEMC: that's a shaper
need lots of HP
the diff between a planer and a shaper: on the planer the work moves, on the shaper a ram with the tool on it moves
same kind of cut tho
shapers are used where the travel is shorter
the biggest shapers are probably 30-36" stroke
anything bigger they use a planer
it would be impossible to make a 20 foot long ram that was even remotely rigid
that video (shaper?) looked mroe than 36"
but a 20 foot long table can be supported along its full length
the video is a planer
table moving = planer
ds2: lied to me
20:20:02) ds2: JymmmEMC: that's a shaper
Hi all. I just updated my M5I20 servo machine to 2.1.7. Do I need to update anything in my existing config files to run the new release?
a smaller version of a planer is a shaper
both do the same thing?
same principle, just different things move
you were asking about a mini version
It would seem that a planer would be more rigid
heh, the shaper in the video is running backwards
cute little planer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCnCKDqAiIo
those two vids perfectly demonstrate the diff between planer and shaper
both do the same thing?
both used for the same purpose?
yeah, both make the same kind of cuts
that shaper is a monster
the 20" one?
both are soon to be illegal in NA... unless guarded
how bout this one for illegal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v67OCpCayQw
overhead drive with mechanical reversing - you can see the belts shifting as it reverses
i walked into 1 shop about 1981 and the were still running from 1 50 hp motor in the back and overhead flat belts.... " i tucked my hair up under my hat and i went into ask him WHY??
he said you look like a fine outstanding young man... i think you'lll do"... and i ran..
i had only ever seen black and white pictures of that and there it was.... WORKIN'
If it aint broke...
I want to build a lineshaft system for my shop powered by my kids running inside a big wheel.
[03:36:49] <ds2> http://www.jamesriser.com/Machinery/AtlasShaper/AtlasShaper.html
Wouldn't mind having one of those
i like old and simple.. for alot of modern stuff... its hard tojustify a 5 axis machine when all i want is 6 new 4 axis machines
Any help with my update question?
them machines had tool grinders hooked to the side right??? until he retired.. and the machine became a surface plate
Chris_sub_1: what question is that?
mesa question he had
I just updated my M5I20 servo machine to 2.1.7. Do I need to update anything in my existing config files to run the new release?
cycle start and hide
hand on estop
I don't think so, except maybe for parameter 5220 in the var file
see the "parameter out of range" thread on the users list
if any smoke starts coming out of internal components... its too late... your facked
theres also an atlas, but its missing parts
oh, another atlas, thats not missing parts: http://cgi.ebay.com/NICE-ATLAS-7-HEAVY-DUTY-METAL-SHAPER-7B_W0QQitemZ130139907333QQihZ003QQcategoryZ12584QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
i could dance that little girle around a room... ; )
Ohhhh these guys
good place to visit if you are in SoCal
beutifull old tool... i wish i had room for it... ; )====
the atlas is only 13" x 35" inches
I'm sure you could find room
but i would have to tell HER... the SHE thing...
or do you need a dance floor
we had bigger ones that thumped
jmkasunich: no that's in trunk
that justlooks like a finisher..
Chris_sub_1: going from 2.1.6 to 2.1.7 should be seamless
the body is were.... in the trunk???
Chris_sub_1: the only thing you might need to change is the index hookups for your mesa card in the HAL file. Because now it works and the names of the hookups are standard
IF you want to either home to index pulses, do threading (lathe) or rigid tapping
no rigid tapping in emc2.1
that is stuff that probably didn't work right in 2.1.6, but everything that worked in 2.1.6 should work in 2.1.7
* jmkasunich shuts up
my chevy may have worked for the last time yesterday - today when I tried to start it, it bent three pushrods for some reason
I was just looking at the sample m5i20_motion.hal versus mine and noticed some differences. I'll go stare at the new one...
cradek: no clue why?
it ran great last night - I ran a bunch of errands - today not so much
no, not really
thats a shame
it has no timing chain/belt, so I don't think it could have crashed the valves into the pistons (I'm not even sure it's an interference engine)
timing gears, right?
yes pretty sure crank and camshaft are directly geared together
and probably keyed onto the shafts - you'd need to shear a key to get it out of time
chevy on a dose of antifreeze..
it even still runs a bit (3 cyls), so I suspect the valve timing is ok
head gasket... or head.. DONT run it
how do you know the rods are bent? pulled rockers and rods?
alex__ is now known as TheBall
the three rods were so bent I could pull them right out with the rockers in place
intakes or exhaust, or a mix?
the rest seem fine
wierd for a chevy...
all 3 the same, I don't know which they are
bad back fire...
dmessier: this is a 50something chevy, for whatever thats worth
i have a 54
back 3 cyls
dmessier: is yours 216 or 235?
chk if you split the cam... straight 6??
are all lifters moving??
back half of the camshaft separated from the front?
sheared... in 2 pcs
all the remaining valves are opening and closing - can't be sure of the timing
that would seem hard to do, or is it a two piece shaft?
I guess if the other valves in those cylinders are working its not a split shaft
no.. they break..
dmessier: it is still turning, for whatever that's worth
can you move the 3 rockers with a screwdriver or small pry? or are they seized?
my 235 ran with no oil...
jmkasunich: I have not tried yet, I see HF has a $10 valve spring compressor - would be nice to see if the valves are free
had 135000 miles on clock when pulled
yaeh.. if they are stuck.. your rod just hammered into them
seems odd that three would sieze up at once tho
I know it didn't overheat. Not sure what else would stick three of them at once
wish if I knew intake or exhaust
cam... is only other thing tied to them
big or little??
look at the hump in the head
I have the book that says which are which, I just don't remember which three they were :-)
too late to get dirty again to find out
oh.. what vehickle??
you can probably figure it out by lookin at the manifolds
jmkasunich: it wasn't obvious to me...
intake run UP exhaust run DOWN
the intake and exhaust weave amongst each other in a strange way
about 2" in between
there aren't even 6 of each port
not a simple IOIOIOIOIOIO thing, eh
no 3 into1...LOL
I was sure it was a head gasket because compression 90, 90, 95, 40, 0, 80
sounds like 5 is bad
it must be intake valves if the compression is low
stuck open valve will give you zero
Running now (yay!). Were changes made to any of the servo motion code or m5i20 firmware for 2.1.7, or just index-related stuff? I seem not to be tuned properly jogging in X, and I thought I had that working.
none are stuck open
any time. (that's the limit of my engine troubleshooting knowledge :) )
open hole.. cam.. again
but a stuck closed intake might also give 0
have you had the valve coversoff
must have, he removed the bent rods
Chris_sub_1: only the index was fixed
anything looked like it might have dropped??
what do you mean dropped?
I only took the top cover off, not the side
the side is a huge pain
characteristically different from the rest... broke v spring???
nope the springs all look fine
why did it BLOW the rods??
pound on the rockers.. without rods.. valve moves??
yeah I need to see if the valves are free
it seems like they MUST be stuck (or they WERE stuck)
did this sit for some period???
was running last night
drove it all around yesterday
no before?? it puked??
it ran great
Thanks guys. I'm off to dream about 3D contouring. Good night. :)
play safe chris
dmessier: it had been sitting for only a few weeks or months before yesterday
thats a stovebolt chevy engine.. they DONT puke...
wonder if I had oil at the rockers
hmmm months.. are the issue.... you siesed a few valves im almost positive
and dry sumped her
but it ran great yesterday - they would have had to seize last night after I parked it
did it kick back when you shut it off at all
I rebuilt the carb yesterday - it was running as good as ever
wierd... haave you got any rods??
yes, 3, but they're a little bent :-)
id prefer straight ones
me too, I don't have any of those
what kind of lifters does it have?
they are not hydraulic - maybe just solid
i have 12... come pick em up
could they have frozen in a really "tall" configuration?
early hydraulic lifters
no these are not hydraulic - this is the 216 not the 235 powerglide
I'm not sure what they look like though
I'm sure I could get some from a junkyard 50 miles from here, there are a lot of these cars there
hmmm... you have found as big a dog as mine
what does it come from??
I don't understand
i have a 54 pickup... with 53 running gear and 54 1/2 trim...
the 52 deluxe sedan
napp time workin am
I better go too - thanks guys for letting me bounce ideas around
sorry to hear about the engine, hope its not too bad
cradek grotty oil or grott in the oil I had a regular problem with landrover valves sticking in the guides for a while
dries up and sticks to the shaft/guide and jams it (worse if the one part is waisted due to wear)
IceGuest_7 is now known as mcfloppy123
[10:17:02] <mcfloppy123> http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bildschirmfoto2cc1.png
this is my actual try
why is the pwmgen value so anxious?
nobody in here?
there are some here
but I'm afraid I can't help you with your problem
depends on time of day/at work etc
steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
one rusty member in first pic
yah - they have been leaning towards that.. It was deemed to have an issue as early as 94 or something like that.
uk gov has announced bridge checks as well now
I think we are checking bridges across the us now.
dont think we have any that exact style
it's all due to SUVs, I tell you
SUVs? its the damn bikers/joggers under the bridge.
they all got in step for a bit.
and the joggers blame the trucks
I showed my wife the tocoma.. she had never seen that before
yeah - that's a very cool video. not a cool event, mind you :)
archivist: ever seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mclp9QmCGs
interesting how it went straight down on the security video
only a dog died during the tocoma colapse
they had some significant warning on the Tacoma Narrows bridge
the wobbling/waaving would have told me to get the hell off the bridge in a hurry
wife could not believe they didn't think of the wind
* archivist copies to me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mclp9QmCGs
I could not believe that a bridge constructed of steel beams 10 feet across could wiggle like that
and the concrete
we had an open univesity program on the Tacoma and its problem some years ago
also had some good programs on the stone arch and how it stays up
I want to see recent pics of the bridge before failure
we have one of these - speaking of planers.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZYe-b-iGb0
It isn't cincinnati
about that size though
funny - the last comment is exactly what I thought when I saw it running
the boss here has a lathe wired backwards as well
two reverse speeds and one forwards
whatever works :)
is 26 pins the floppy drive connector?
no, I see that's 34 pins
26 is usually a parallel port ribbon cable
Anyone want a plasma welder for $100 ? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180144756777&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=008
hello, i am using limit3 and i need change speed with a pyvcp widget, velocity is a parameter, any idea
the same problem that dallur have with oneshot
danielbr: are you trying to change spindle speed with a slider widget ?
change it to be a pin instead. Change "param rw" to "pin in" for each one you want to set from pyvcp
no other source code change should be necessary
thanks jepler i will try that tip
jepler i am thinking about make one "new" interface using glade this is a AXIS clone or GAXIS. But i need your help with pyvcp part
this is one first project for a silkscreen control using glade and emc http://imagebin.org/9714
Jepler, that worked, thanks
dallur: i forgot your question_ this limit3 change is for control the belt velocity in this silkscreen printer
this is a retrofit
danielbr: ahh ok
i will like to use that interface but i dont know yet how handle the NML part, using pygtk
the second option is axis and pyvcp
I wonder what limit3 does if it is going at say 1/second and you lower the maximum velocity to .5/second.
this works reducing de float output at that rate
and the float you can use with a stepgen
who wrote that comp?
probably jmkasunich wrote limit3
how many hours do you think is necessary for link that interface with emc, I can pay for it
I'm not interested in taking on that work right now. I'm also not good at estimating time for projects.
danielbr, that looks suspiciously like a mac UI
assuming someone already has knowledge of nml and hal, for the items that are trivial (1 button/slider/etc corresponds to one HAL pin or one NML message) it should be very quick -- more than one item per hour
but some of the items are probably more complicated than that
yes but is a gtk interface
interesting - he machine takes a part out of the bin, screens it, then puts it in the output bin?
or is it silkscreening the bins? :)
yes like this
this is foe glass
as jepler said (sort of), it's very hard to estimate how long something will take to complete
the belt move the glass until the "home" point and print
i will try study python and NML
if all you're asking for is adding HAL pins to the various widgets, then that could be estimated reasonably quickly. if you're talking about any machine logic, then it gets harder since you start needing to consider how EMC does things vs. how you want that UI to work
the hal part is ready or almost
ok - the "making it work how you want" part is the hardest to estimate :)
i need link signal with emc commands and status
"making buttons do things in HAL" is easier :)
and read status from emc and hal?
as jepler pointed out, simply connecting widgets to HAL is pretty easy. connecting them to "EMC" (via NML) is a bit harder, but not too hard if you know what you're doing.
and that goes in both directions - it's not too much harder to make a widget that reads from HAL/EMC and displays data than it is to make one that sends data to HAL/EMC when the user manipulates it
SWPadnos, sorry a phone call
can i send one email to you with project details?
you can, but I'm not the ideal person to do this for you right now. I've got a lot of business lined up for the next few months
ok, so i will study try understand how this work and for now use what i know: axis and pyvcp
what chip company's logo looks like "integral dt"?
hmm, I should know this, part no?
it says "(integral) dt 7203 " "L35J" "T9742P"
Integrated Device Technology - IDT ?
yeah, "Integrated Device Technology, Inc."
this is a useful list: http://www.engineering.uiowa.edu/~eshop/mflogo.dir/ic-id.html
yep - was just looking for that :)
whatever it is, it's probably discontinued, it's an ISA-bus card
CMOS ASYNCHRONOUS FIFO
probably: 2K x 9 AsyncFIFO, 5.0V
up to 512 kb
plenty pop up on a google search
jepler, did you find the datasheet?
with part remainder companies
SWPadnos: yes I found one on idt's websit
ok. low power, 35 ns, PLCC, <unknown> manufactured in September of '97
it's T "9742" p
9742 is week 47 of 1997
or week 42 even
err - yeah, that
if you're having fun finding chip info for me, you can do one more. TI MP9914FNL / 93ADDVW / WB
well - I'm not, really :)
I remember the 9914
ah maybe it's a purpose-built chip for IEEE-488
I have one at home somewhere
looking at the IEEE488 interface card in the HP?
I ebayed an ISA-bus IEEE-488 card .. just looking at the chips
I wondered if it might turn out to be a more interesting card than it first looked, because I noticed that the biggest chip is a XILINX and that the linux drivers say they require a firmware to be uploaded before use
it's possible that it's an IEEE488 debugging card
some were programmed like that
XILINX chip may be one that requires setting up each time
cheaper for the card mfr to do it in the pc software
easier updates, etc
I sure like that about the 5i20 and pluto boards in emc (particularly since it's all GPL software too)
especially with the Mesa, since you don't need Windows/wine to run the vendor tools
I would have chosen a xilinx board in a heartbeat for that very reason, but I didn't find one with those characteristics and price-point when I was looking
I should have waited another year for this new one mesa is coming out with, I guess
nope - the pluto was the best bet at the time
probably not :)
I think you've done a great job showhorning functionality into the pluto, and all the experience you got will certainly help when you get a 7i43 :)
incidentally, what did you pay for the GPIB card?
man - 92 degrees, and now we get thunder to go along with it
* Skullworks-PGAB wants some thunder, and the natural swamp cooler action to follow...
thunder without rain at the moment ...
do you need ISA, or was that just a good deal?
I didn't find any PCI or USB interfaces that were as cheap
ok. the reason I ask is that there are several revisions of GPIB, and the earlier ones were really slow - like parallel port slow
yeah I have no idea how fast or slow this card is
the one to get is IEEE488.2, which is much faster - several megabytes/sec instead of a couple of hundred K
but it only helps if the instruments support faster transfer ...
jepler: very nice scope
I doubt the scope I bought is a fast device
PCI 488 cards are a bit cost++
it may actually be, but I don't know either
at most I'll transfer a few waveforms per session, so it doesn't matter much
$100-up on ebay
oh god, time to go spend the rest of my afternoon in a meeting
I allways get beat when I try to get one
have a nice sleep
there are DIY microcontroller-based '488 interfaces out there, I am tempted to try one or write my own
but if this isa board works and the computer I put it in keeps booting I probably won't get around to it
I fancy doing a usb to 488
the steppers on the router are 1.5a
I am going to setup an axis with the oem650 and see how fast I can accellerate and what the top speed would be.
is oem650 the drives that are on your engraver?
archivist: one of the ones pointed out to me is FTDI usb-serial + AVR -- the plans & source are no-cost http://lpvo.fe.uni-lj.si/gpib/
I got some powersupplys with the oem650s that where 75v 3a - never thought I would use them
fenn: the drive that came with it was proprietary - and it smoked..
jepler Ill have a look
fenn: the oem650s are 7.5a max microstepping drives.
a bit overkill but the price was right.
really must get to my meeting. bye guys.
fenn: I think you saw this.. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/engraver/drive.JPG
I need to continuity check the wiring for the z axis - could be that maybe something got shorted out.
I just have not had a real chance to work on it. I wirebrushed the circuit board.. it is going to need some reconstruction. a few missing traces
you brushed them off!
* skunkwork blushes
you can see in the picture - the smoke on the back side of the circuit board
do the other drives still work?
I had a 22.5 amp @ 400V line short to a PCB in our laser powersupply - burned right thru the FR4 a hole the size of a penny
I was able to make jumpers around the hole and replace the fried components - its still working
that was a regular repair in 70's TV's
I think the card was 3 axis + spindle control.
some german here?
* alex_joni is
* skunkwork thinks alex_joni is AI
skunkwork: I just might be
although I wouldn't know that.. would I?
or would you?? hmmmm
"I think, therefore I am..."
does that work for AI?
never ask one
make it ask itself
its interesting how many people talk to my bot in #mysql
Never try to reason with an Atomic Weapon - (DarkStar)
archivist: what kind of bot?
answers !man question etc its a php bot with a database backend
but it also reads without ! and responds directly
does it dance?
it has a few jokes up its sleeve
some copied from the #apache bot
what is your bots name?
can it join more than one irc channel?
to play with it its in #php-support
/ban archivist_bot :)
Hi, other question, it seems G38.2 only work with xyz, what can i do if i need probe with a axis A or U?
I'm looking at cvs trunk: it appears that it will work for ABC, but not UVW because of an oversight
does it not work to probe axis A for you?
not working with A
what does it do?
what emc version?
first of all there is no U axis in emc2.1
i tried U in trunk
like I said U does not work in trunk, but I'll fix it
does A work in trunk?
i only tested in 2.1
in 2.1 A axis prompt probe finished without tripping immediately
i will try trunk
the same occur in trunk with A axis
ok let me look into it
does anyone here have trouble loading the following URL? http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/rtapi/rtai_rtapi.c.diff?r1=1.34;r2=1.35
or, to put it another way, who can load this URL just fine?
no prob here
15:11:09 (70.84 MB/s) - `rtai_rtapi.c.diff?r1=1.34;r2=1.35' saved 
wget works too
* archivist checked dns and thats ok
works here too
I had no problem, and I'm about to check the compile on my dapper+2.6.20 system
looks like a one line backport fix might be needed
== "tits up" apparently :-)
SWPadnos: that's great. I guess I wouldn't be surprised if there was more than one problem, but if you're willing to troubleshoot I'm sure it's easy to solve
I can try, but I'm sure it isn't as easy for me, since I don't know shit about the build system :)
looks like you might have to backport a few kernel-specific thingies in rtapi
then I'll probably stop after seeing it not compile. I can probably work on it a little next week though, when I'm on the plane
SWPadnos: ever heard of Kenko?
they make some camera optics
yeah, saw some teleconverters from them
the famous maker of instant coffee?
isn't all coffee instant - you drink alot, and it goes thru you an instant later.
kenko = cheap(copied?) slr gear. I have some kenko extension tubes
awallin: really cheap stuff?
(not the price..)
real lenses have "schneider kreuznach" written on them
30 times zoom
there's a nice one from zeiss
the schneider lenses they fit to TV cameras can be in the 30K euro price bracket .. or more
schneider make the Imax projection lenses too
that one from zeiss is in the .5M range
robin_sz, it annoys me these days that they cant be arsed to use proper lenses and send a camera man on stage
archivist, blame hill street blues
th eadvent of wobbly-vision
befoere then a wobbly shot was "unuseable" now its "artisitic"
and in shot!!
same as those fscking awful ccd cameras on sports
crap LCD shutters
if you watch cricket, or high diving ...
you'll notice it in the bowlers arm ... a series of snapshots of the arm in motion
no natural blur
alex_joni: not sure about the real quality of kenko... probably OK if you pick the products that get nice online reviews
the shutter is shut for some of the frame, so informtation is lost
poxy inter-frame transfer CCD arrays
real cameras are always open, with an iris to control light
i think rapatronic cameras are the neatest thing since sliced rbead
I think they turn the speed up to get the individual shots for the slowmo on the ccd types?
no, thats the sony super slomo stuff
they run at a MUCH faster framrate
with the 2x covnertor selected
real TV camera lenses
LDK5s and the like, had about 30lb of glass on the front
mixing high voltage with TNT and nanoseconds - what could be more fun?
lenses on the LDK5 have two handles
is that 30x long distance zoom or macro zoom?
how many GDP's is it costing?
I think 15K £ in the 1970s
I think Ive heard 30k per chan and half is the lens
isn't that more its weight in gold?
but redundant now
woohoo - a mill bought the black walnut log
no one wanted it because it was from in town
and only one neighbor was mad that we cut the 2 trees down.
damn. I'd have taken them :)
(only one was a black walnut)
then I'd have taken it :)
a friend and I may build a lumber mill for fun - there are some plans out there for that
[21:20:19] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSC02968.JPG
I think that's slightly bigger than I would build
:) blades are cheap - around $80
skunkworks: solid or band?
that's only twice what they cost for my bandsaw
though those are metal cutting
these I think are .7 pitch
how long do wood bandsaw blades last for woods*? (*non-tropical woods with lots of sand)
a long time.. We sharpen them quite a few times though
oh, how? small grinding bits in a handheld grinder?
they acutally cut better after the first sharpening :)
does it take a long time to sharpen?
it's not like theres a lack of teeth
it has been a while - maybe 30-60 minutes
the biggest problem is pushing the blade too hard.. you can cup them and then they are junk.
the teeth bend backwards?
No - the blade is about 2 inches deep - that cups.
yes - oops
a quite loud accident
band breakage? snaps off?
we have not had too many break.. Not a big deal. No - the cupping just screws up the blade so it won't cut strait anymore. very hard to un-cup it - we tried running it thru a forming wheel once.
oh, wait, I'm not sure I get what cupping is
think about bending the blade as though it were a ribbon
wouldn't that be where the back end of the blade bends over to one side?
so you have a curved cross section instead of straight
(is that it?)
oh, how do you manage to do that?
push too hard
that would require a lot of force
push waaaaay too hard
a shitload of force
if you force the blade too hard - it start to go sideways - the wood then forms the blade into a cup
aren't the blades like 2mm thick?
push waaaaay waaaaay too hard
.75 or thereabout
right, way too hard
.07 or so probably
again - it has been a while/
quite massive then
it's not like you'd break it by just looking at it
3D ARCS, BABY!
THE FINAL FRONTIER
QUICKLY, TO THE HALL OF JUSTICE
ubersphere > hypercube?
does anyone know how correction tapes work
was there ever such a thing as an analog servo
you sniff it like whiteout.
a-l-p-h-a, apparently so, since dim(hypercube)=4
if only that were the case
or are servos all digital
and, yes... servo's can be analogue.
the inside of my ear is so itchy. :/
i guess that makes using an audio tape for correction feasable
why is your ear itchy
do you have ear spiders
what can you do with true 3d arcs that you can't with caRTESIAN ONES?
a true 3d arc would be multiple rotary axes
WHAT ARE YOU EVEN ASKING
really? I've finished modding emc2 to do it on my bridgeport 1
i have no doubt you have a very close approximation of an arc
toastydeath, are you high?
i am also kind of confused as to what you are stating/claiming
so that may be adding to the insanity
interpolated tilted arcs
and i, of course, was being inflammatory
by pooh-poohing interpolated arcs
i'll just submit my code patches tomorrow
how did you implement the 3d arc
is it like, a plane definition
and then an arc along that plane
it's not that tedious
just specify three points
that's a plane definition
i'm retarded again
i see what you are saying
never listen to me again.
also congrats on implementing it
hm, i wonder if the board elections have started yet
Paul should be voted dog catcher...
i would like to submit my name for the position of "peanut gallery"
err post pooch cleanup
I think all IRC members have honorary "peanut gallery" status anyway
i would like a badge/card
well, the bad news is that the left armrest of my office chair just broke
MACHINE A NEW ONE
the good news is that means I can now justify buying a new one, something I've been thinking about fora year
domestic peanuts, without .gov farming subs
I'm just not sure if buying an Aeron is still the kiss of death for a technology company :)
20 way adjustable
When I worked for Gateway computer corp those were what we were issued - 10 hours of comfort while wired into a phone...
I miss such nice clean work...
and the fat paychecks.
oh well - (-11 was the begining of the end for may great things
on analog servos, how would you preform a correction if you had another analog signal
like on a tap
well - this is why they call them "servo amplifiers"
they would take a torque (current) command, and amplify it
so i could add/subtract the value on the tape from the input signal
that's the exact thing they'd do - op-amps and very good noise filtering :)
what does PID stand for
proportional, integral, differential
look for it in the wiki / wikipedia / google ...
there are a few interesting CNC lathes
that still use analog servos/etc
and instead of trying to digitize stuff
they use high resolution measurement equipment, and create an analog tape for error correction
analog measurement stuff and just record the output, subtract it from the ideal form
I'd prefer to use a computer, but I think part finishes are better when you have analog servo commands/drives
these are very accurate lathes, built for not a whole lot of money
Mmmmm sounds like tuning an analog servo would make a good final exam for an op-amp class
Problem 1: tune this motor system
Problem 2: now make it work under varying loads, at varying speeds, with crud in the drive mechanism :)
also the accuracy of the servo really only affects the dimensonal accuracy
rather than surface finish
consistency in the control / drive will certainly affect finish
not unless the servo vibrates during operation
there are whole papers on this
and a couple standards by the ASPE
I'd be very surprised if that were true, but I'll leave it for now (since I have no time to research and refute :) )
toasty has obviously never done high speed 3D DNC
and i'm going to say you don't know what factors go into surface finish
and optical appearance
read the papers, they've available through the aspe
i think my air conditioner is broken
your vengence has been laid upon me, sirs
I have to hold a .5 max finish all day long, I know alot about it, down to the surface temp of the way lube.
so then you know the servo error in of itself does not cause problems in surface finish but rather how the mill deals with it
HP has demanding specs for its OEM providers
and that asynchronous error in the direction of the surface is what contributes to an optically imperfect surface regardless of measured Ra
also, are you hard milling?
hard milling is cool
where i work won't buy exotic inserts
to try new processes
not currently - I have doing Die work
Kennametal sends me free samples to destroy to gage tool life in different applications
the HP stuff I do is all lathe
what do you make
ha, that is cool
the image transfer units in high speed laser printers
what machines are you using to hold a .5
Okuma LR15 dual turret lathe
i hear good things about okuma
have you tried putting a SPDT insert in your machine?
have to fill the part interior with foam to damp harmonics
if you're getting a .5 on pcd you should be able to do even better
prodvided you re-sharpen them in house
we can get much better - but they want 48-66 part per hour
that would explain the harmonics thing
so we run as fast as possible that will stay in spec consistantly
have you ever looked at live tooling grinders
machine runs at least 100hrs a week
i dunno if that would wind up being faster or slower
newer management won't spend a dime on hardware now
they are being sucked dry by our parent company
parent company just decided to sell our building to an investment group with a lease back agreement
are you guys slowly getting axed or what?
parent company dying?
so they grab all the cash from the sale, and now leave us with a higher monthly overhead since the building has been paid off for years - now we'll have rent payments
profit margins going down - china has grabbed alot of the low end bulk market
they still can't match our quality on high end stuff
but they are working on it.
i don't hear too many people worried about the high end stuff
In 10 years they will be real close
they could be, if the economic incentive is there
they seem to be doing too good at mass production to shift just yet
I've heard some compelling arguements that china will loose it's bulk manufacturing edge once the economic factors shift into high precision for them
labor costs are going up everywhere - even china - but bottom line, they can still do it cheaper
indeed, but that mentality is what is preventing them from doing high precision work
maybe it will shift
not much cheaper - but remember - if you price a bid to GM - they want unit cost to 7 decimal places
indeed, but they need the part to come back in spec
so they can know exact cost per million units
bids are won in the 5th or later decimal spot
it can be that tight
for high precision work?
any work - case cited was for the door hing used on chevy trucks
yeah, THAT is standard
2 suppliers bid