921.6kbaud serial could do something probably
115.2k is only 11.5 bytes per millisecond
ew, most dont have that high
which isn't much for 3 or 4 axes plus I/O
Ok, I'll let you make some money honey...
SWPadnos: work it baby, work it, work it! shake your money maker!
of course - otherwise how can I get abroad?
exactly (or amsterdamn)
I just got done rebuilding a device that delivers fuel/air to a car engine using a complex system of floats, levers, valves, springs and balls. Is that ridiculous or what?
not a computer anywhere to be found
my old chevy
accelerator pump had stopped working which made it pretty difficult to drive
I found another problem while I was in there, so it runs better than ever now
my parents want to borrow it (well to be precise: my mom does) to drive to a 50s-themed party saturday
that should be fun
I hope he humors her...
I doubt he wants to do any of it :-)
dad is boring?
"Like Father, like Son"
well ... it's probably just not his kind of thing
cradek: Sorry, I couldn't resist =)
well to be sure, I wouldn't want to go to a 50s-themed party either
cradek: Come on, you know you want to be like the Fonz!
so your analysis is pretty fair
Though, I enjoy 50
Though, I enjoy 50's music
Hell, I like Glenn Miller for that matter.
when I was 17 ... it was a very good year
have you heard the They Might Be Giants remake of that song?
WooHoo db25 BB for $13 + shipping
cradek: While I enjoy the music, I have no clue on the artist/titles.
Jymmm: is it the big band type stuff you like?
cradek: Yeah, but I like all kinds of music... 50-today (except gangster rap and counnry singing thru their nose)
me too, exactly
why stop at the 50s though, a lot of good stuff before that
cradek: Not really stopping, just the only decade I'm sure that I know I like.
anything before then no clue if I like or not
lots of good country/folk in 30s and bluegrass in 40s
* jmkasunich_ likes bluegrass
jmkasunich_ is now known as jmkasunich
not sure if I do or not... softjazz is cool, most blues not really, BB King is cool
just got an album (ha) from the library - a bunch of modern folks redid a bunch of the old bill monroe songs
Del McCoury sang most of it, and he even sounds like Bill
Damn, $13 for the bb, $9 for shipping (and this isn't ebay either)
[02:19:22] <Jymmm> http://www.candcnc.com/Mini-IOProductsChart.htm
cool: "Day two - more chips - parts good - conclusion - success"
another happy customer
that's a nice machine and setup
hope he gets us some pictures
what kind of machine?
[02:22:15] <cradek> http://www.emachinetool.com/usedcnc/catalog/vertical.cfm?DestinationCategory=CNC%20Vertical%20Mill&ProductID=11635
looks a lot like this iirc
maybe half again as big as a bridgeport
his has power drawbar, motorized knee, jogwheel, hard start/hold/feed override controls, touchscreen for everything else
much better photos: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150141676763
a bit of a beast there
yeah it's pretty hefty
I had fun cutting some aluminum like butter
1/2" deep, 3/4" tool
err I think it was 3/4
dunno, it was big
also engraved a bunch of teeny-tiny AXIS logos
your bird is named PID?
Parrot is Destroying
or Parrot is Defecating
When I left, 3 keys were missing.
he's (she's?) too smart to eat them, right?
She just destorys... (tyical female) chew em up and spit em out!
note the card baord box remains in the rear
jmkasunich: I think your heatsink is overkill, try this instead http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1064/980074783_b772ce34e7.jpg
no flat spot to mount the geckos
there's 'ridges' =)
[02:45:09] <Jymmm> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1079/980998834_9f44b57eb3.jpg
tell me somethng I dont know
what's the white gunk?
SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
SWPadnos: PID http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1105/980074887_01d726bfb6.jpg
alex_jon1 is now known as alex_joni
New CNC machine =)
exists a open lowcost CNC mill project with homepage?
floppy12: what are you interested in?
wenn's einfacher geht, kannst du auch deutsch schreiben :P
goddag herr Joni
alex_joni okay... also ich will ne kleine cnc fräße bauen
für platinen alu und plexiglas zu gravieren
aha, klingt gut
soll das komplett von null aufgebaut werden?
oder hast du führungen und so was?
bin ein armer student :)
ich hab nur 2 trapezspindeln für die Z achse
und der arbeitsbereich sollte 500 auf 500mm sein
meinste das ist machbar?
wolte den tisch in X achse fahren lassen und die brücke in Y achse
bruecke ist meistens schwerer zu konstruieren
[10:06:32] <alex_joni> http://www.poseidone.org/wikipesca/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=wiki:giacus:linux1.jpeg
hmmm muss duschen
alex_joni: cute machine
toast__ is now known as toastydeath
well - all my friends and relatives are ok.. (Bridge collapse)
are you near?
about 2 hours south
I noticed on one pic that a train got squashed
skunkworks: good to hear
would have been a shame to lose a candidate
hmm BBC has dropped the before pic, it seems to have had a "light" frame for the job
it was 'under construction' what ever that means
apparently making holes in it
it is funny - Everyones first thought was terrorist - yet my first thought was of my ex-girlfiends brother. He worked for minnasota dot.. he said there was a bunch of briges he would not drive over.
ah known week spots
this was around 1999 or so.
another 8 years of rust since then
"Road crews were working on the bridge's joints" hmm which ones, had they jacked it and increased strain etc
alex_joni r u in?
how can i tune my PID? i have no idea... at the moment i tryed some parameters and not somtimes works
I have a bit of a dilemma
between receiving the raw arguments for a tilted arc from G-code and sending the appropriate numbers to TILTED_ARC_FEED, I have to calculate the values for the center and normal vectors
for normal arcs, this is done in convert_arc*, interp_convert.cc
it seems logical for me to put my convert_tilted procedure inside interp_convert as well
but my conversion procedure requires vector ops, specifically cross/scalar prod and magnitude, but interp_convert has no such capabilities
how do i get around this?
use the ones in libposemath and make it an additional requirement for the gcode interpreter?
yes, that's the shortest path I could take, but that would also mean linking posemath into milltask
which is a problem, because i've not the slightest clue how to play with the root Makefile
if you're asking how to do it, I can try to answer
off the top of my head, you would add the new library to the list of dependencies for that binary:
-../bin/rs274: $(call TOOBJS, $(SAISRCS)) ../lib/librs274.so.0 ../lib/libemcini.so.0
+../bin/rs274: $(call TOOBJS, $(SAISRCS)) ../lib/librs274.so.0 ../lib/libposemath.so.0 ../lib/libemcini.so.0
fwiw milltask already has libposemath
../bin/milltask: $(call TOOBJS, $(MILLTASKSRCS)) ../lib/librs274.so.0 ../lib/libemc.a ../lib/libnml.so.0 ../lib/libemcini.so.0 ../lib/libposemath.so.0
the lines to link gcode.so (python gcode module) are in src/emc/rs274, and the change would be the same (list libposemath with the other libraries)
silly me -- interp_convert belongs to librs274, so whether or not milltask has posemath is irrelevant
is it reasonable for librs274 to depend on libposemath? or have I gone too far?
I don't think it's a big deal
I think it's preferable to writing a new, different version of vector math operations
the impact on the emc system as a whole is small, since libposemath will already be used by several running programs, and it's a small library anyway
why not use a third party library for the vector calcs?
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-08-02.txt
who's brilliant fucking idea was it for all the posemath functioins require a pointer to the result instead of just returning the result?
now I have to break everything down into intermediate expressions and store them into temporary variables
s/brilliant fucking/fucking brilliant/
because you can't return a struct, only a reference or a pointer to one
C++ may allow a struct return, but in any case you'd need to copy the struct off the stack to make it "permanent"
libposemath is foremost a C library with a thin C++ wrapper, though
for cutting up 2 large trees yesterday - I feel pretty good. Other than an itchy bee sting.
was one of them a General Sherman?
wtf? PI constant #define is scattered all over the place
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/scaragui.py: convert from radians to degrees in the best way
hmmm. maddash, if you "fix" the #define PI thing, please do it with a static const variable (e.g. static const PI=3.141593653589...)
that will create one copy of the constant in RAM, which is quicker to load into an FP register I believe
unless that doesn't work for some other linking reason
i'll remember that
it's probably not an issue for floats, but for doubles I think there's a difference
err - I'd say "oops", but that's a hard combo to hit by accident :)
I lost the past two hour's worth of source changes
I use a certain program which by default maps Alt+Backspace to "Undo"
maddash: using an editor without auto-save? ouch indeed
alex_joni bist du da?
jepler: which editor autosaves?
maddash: I most often use vim, its autosave (which it calls "swap file") frequently saves my bacon
floppy12: ab und zu
aptitude purge fte ; aptitude install vim-common
alex_joni hast du plan von PID reglung?
brb...gotta take a breath before I end up punching this laptop
example of vim recovery from a crash (in this case, kill -9): http://pastebin.ca/643204
floppy12: ich muss leider los
jepler: can you point floppy12 to some PID docs?
I'm no PID expert .. but here are the links I know of: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/motion/pid_theory/index.html http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Tuning_EMC2/HAL_PID_Loops http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?PWM_Servo_Amplifiers
toast is now known as toastydeath
what type of motor is capable for milling a circuit board or a aluminium front panel?
like a dremel or such?
anything that spins
still, dremel should work very slowly
dremel might be iffy - maybe a rotozip
it is somewhere between a dremel and a router
with a router do you mean something like ca 20 k RPM?
has anyone ever seen a used universal measuring machine for sale
20k rpm is good for smaller bits
which most people are interested in for homebuilt thing
generally, with a homebuilt machine, more speed is never a bad thing
[17:59:49] <floppy12> http://www.bosch-pt.de/boptocs-de/Product.jsp?division=hw&prod_id=8517
something like that?
i'm not sure what folks are using or find acceptable on homebuilt machines
skunkworks: wake up again sir
he's your man for this
i only have experience with big and slow machines
floppy12: how are you going to mount that?
i wouldnt buy a bosch
people like to use this style because it is easy to mount
[18:04:00] <skunkworks> http://cgi.ebay.com/CNC-Router-Mount-for-Porter-Cable-892-690-CNC-Aps_W0QQitemZ120147122137QQihZ002QQcategoryZ67245QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Porter Cable 690 and 892
"The outlines around the traces are cut with a 60 degree carbide V tool rotating at 20,000 rotations/min and traveling at 20 inches/min. Since the tool has two "teeth", this means that each tooth cuts only .0005 (half of a thousandth) of an inch! This is the usage suggested by the tool manufacturer, and it gives great results and long tool life." -- http://timeguy.com/cradek/cnc/pcb
how many watt should the drive have?
are 1000 W enough?
floppy12: cradek's spindle motor is the standard sherline spindle motor with a different pulley ratio to yield high RPMs at low torque. http://sherline.com/dimen.htm
scroll to "Motor and Speed Control"
high torque is not required for this application, this motor is only 60W according to that page
I use one of these for cutting circuit boards - but I think a dremel would do that. I don't know if a dremel wouls be enough to cut aluminum face plates.. maybe a bit iffy. http://cgi.ebay.com/SEARS-Craftsman-Roto-Zip-Router_W0QQitemZ130138559813QQihZ003QQcategoryZ20781QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I am talking only about PCB trace milling and drilling, not aluminum face plates. I don't have experience with that.
[18:10:09] <floppy12> http://cgi.ebay.de/Oberfraese-1050-W-12-Hartmetall-Fraeser-Koffer-Neu_W0QQitemZ320142950787QQihZ011QQcategoryZ30504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
something like that?
cradek: sherline's website says the spindle motor is only 60W -- is that correct?
I thought they said 90 on them, but I'm not sure
it's hard to believe they would have their specs wrong...
[18:14:17] <jepler> http://sherline.com/dimen.htm
"Output horsepower: .06 KW (60 W) at 10 oz. in. / 6100 rpm"
I think the key word here is "output power", which is quite different from the usually rated input power
first i finish the actually project
their spindle drive "seems pretty strong" to me
cradek: floppy12 was wondering about a spindle for circuit board milling and also for aluminum front panels
cradek: think the sherline would make it through thin Al OK?
for Al it's perfect, for engraving it's way too slow
until you modify the pulleys
with the right tool the sherline lathe can take .1" off steel
Al cuts like butter
for the mill, it's rigidity not power that's the problem I think
any machine needs rigidity
I don't think floppy12's machine is a sherline, just trying to get an idea of spindle output power needed
I mentioned the sherline spindle because I know it's what is on your machine
when was 2.1.7 released?
[18:29:44] <cradek> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/2605
just got a 40Mb email with some dahlih photos from Stuart Stevenson... looks real nice.
nice - can you put them up somewhere?
hm, maybe I should ask Stuart first?
I could put them on my site if it's ok with him
he seems to not have a place to host stuff
I've emailed him. I'll be back in an hour or so. If I get an ok from him I'll put them online
mmm ... does the sherline really only deliver 60W of spindle power?
it did a number to the circuit board..
wild guess ... thats a 5V reg on the output of the rectifier
Nope - mosfet - I don't know if it is the axis enable or what yet.
ah, its a fet
at least you have a few other axes to copy
wonder what caused it
but yeah identical (except working) copies of the circuit will be nice to have
looks like the smoke escaped
fets use smoke particles as part of their internals
theres two plates, and the charged smoke particles move from one to the other, the gate opens and shuts to allow (or not) them through
if you pass too much current, the smoke pressure builds up, and finallym the case will split and let the smoke out
I don't know if the stepper or wiring is shorted or something else
they wont work after that
[18:47:25] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/engraver/engraver.JPG
486dx controller for it.. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/engraver/rip.JPG
is the control part OK?
so far.. it booted up - homed - jogged around a bit.. then it smoked ;)
the spindle on wasn't working either.
so it was actullay working then
perhaps keep the control and add new step drives?
oh the smoke got out while you were using it? I figured that was old damage
nope - I smoked it.. I don't know when it was run last.
dried up C probably then
over diggled the fet
the caps on the board are pretty bulged on one end
* robin_sz got offered 2 more lasers today
I think emc would turn circles around the controller that came with it..
with its own proprietary interface
one laser on its own, the other complete with bed
3 x 1.5 cutting area
gotta go look at it next week
they ar both 2kw units too, soemthing of a coincidence
robin_sz: got sharks yet?
how big a tank are you going to have them in?
for the lasers
they're useless without sharks
i have a cat
mutated sea bass? if they're agressive
[19:00:16] <robin_sz> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6925784.stm
jepler: just out of curiosity, what's the change of implementation for rad -> deg?
just pedanticism I think
cradek: huh? so just a change in the 10^-23d decimal?
I think it's a stylistic change, not a functional change
I'm not following you...
radians are not equal to degrees
there's no point in manually converting to degrees when the library being used has a function to do that
I think it makes no difference except it looks nicer in th ecode
1 radian is like 53 and some change degrees
-tool_angle = math.atan2(d6,d5)*(180.0/3.1415927)
+tool_angle = math.degrees(math.atan2(d6,d5))
this change you mean?
oh, so you you use degrees exclusively now?
for the rendering
the change doesn't make any difference
I'm slow today
there is no numerical difference between the two formulas
tool_angle was always in degrees
except possibly in the 10^-23 position :)
I misread the code
pi is correct to 10^-23 digits and not 10^-9 now
or something like that
it gets rid of a magic number, which is generally a good thing (even though pi and 180 rarely change)
I'd be very afraid if they did
* alex_joni is gone for a couple of hours and suddenly people are changing pi
it's an attempt to look less round, without dieting
[19:16:58] <lerneaen_hydra> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?IRCquotes
there's another one to put in there
when we were discussing about ni
[19:28:20] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-05-07.txt
is it scary that I remember conversations from 1y+ ago?
hmm I can't seem to find the wiki code for a new line?
let one line empty
or use <br>
I think you can use <pre>
for preformatted text
and it's done!
[19:32:41] <lerneaen_hydra> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?IRCquotes
EMC's own bash.org
pi is 22/7
yah - the first 3 digits.
I don't see the point in remembering 22/7, it's only good for three digits, and 22/7 takes up three digits of "space", and you need to perform a calculation
I use it in my basic cooking calculator for pi
balh + blay
why not use 3.14?
it's as close
takes up as many digits
22/7 is 3.14285
error delta is 0.00126
and delta 3.14 to pi?
compared to 3.14 who's delta error is 0.00159
so marginally more
I just hit the PI key on the calculator..
IMO not worth the need of extra calculation
skunkworks, that's cheating :p
or you could memorise to 10-20 digits or so
Stuart Stevenson's Dah-Lih pics are now online: http://www.anderswallin.net/2007/08/dah-lih-emc2-conversion/
he promised to write some text to go with the pics later.
if you've got a lecture^W^W too much free time
my cooking calculator doesnt have pi
or I have a big circle that I can measure its circumference and its diameter
the real manly way
<skunkworks> or I have a big circle that I can measure its circumference and its diameter
or just do the sums
alex_joni: yeah, looks nice. I wonder what PC he is using. seems integrated into the screen. also not sure what if any motion control hardware he is using (can it be only parallel port?)
USC, I believe
new pics online
but they show my bad electric ;)
I do love mills that put the estop button on the front of the quill
robin_sz: yes, the easiest place to reach when things really fsck up
[20:04:16] <lerneaen_hydra> http://www.lerneaenhydra.net/images/rsgallery/original/IMG_1114.JPG
<-- or the position of that estop
maybe on a toy mill
on a real mill, you would not wat to be anywaher near the spindle when things fsck up
lerneaen_hydra, ah, ok :)
hence the "oh so ideal" place
it should be somewhere the fsck away from anything that moves
lerneaen_hydra: is that yours?
* robin_sz nods
lerneaen_hydra: you like the on/off button?
admittedly, I suppose it could be handy when your tie is in the toolholder
[20:05:43] <floppy1234> http://www.rsp-design.de/plotter/html/default.html
dont scream ;)
JymmmEMC: for the small mill it's ok, as the endmills are quite small
for something bigger I wouldn't like it
lerneaen_hydra: does it light up well enough?
floppy1234: that's quite a working space
JymmmEMC: the integrated lamp?
or the LCD?
lerneaen_hydra what do you mean?
lerneaen_hydra: the light in the on/off switch (which I believe is LED)
well, both light up enough
JymmmEMC: it's a halogen that sits inside the head
floppy1234: the working area of the mill/router is very large, what's it going to be?
I think it's PPMC, see the top of this pic http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/2007_08dahlih/electronics1.JPG
lerneaen_hydra: No, no, I found those on/off switches on ebay, I wanted to know if the intergrated light is bright enough to be seen in daylight
lerneaen_hydra a hotwire styrofoam cuter
JymmmEMC: oh, there aren't any lights in the buttons
floppy1234: oh, cool, real four axis?
JymmmEMC: oh, not the same button
lerneaen_hydra yes... i hope they'll run
floppy1234: what type of cutting speed are you looking at?
i dont know
the axis can run 3m per second
and how do you tighten the wire hard enough so it doesn't give bad geometry?
with a gas pressure spring from a VW Golf 4 hatchback
floppy1234: how much force?
JymmmEMC: hmm, that's not it either?
no... 40 kg
floppy1234: oh, quite a bit, how thick wire are you going to use?
cool, which alloy?
floppy1234: is that your garage?
JymmmEMC no... the garage from a friends dad ;)
floppy1234: He's one sick puppy... way too clean and neat!
JymmmEMC what do you mean?
[20:16:33] <floppy1234> http://shop.ezentrum.de/2166252/dvVxDfODeTAeAvABeUnktoiQADhE5x/4DCGI/ezshop?action=artmehr&artid=48583
so thikness is 0.5mm not 1mm
what did I miss here... using a mini strut for hotwire tension????
JymmmEMC how do you mean this?
floppy1234: 13:11:05) floppy1234: with a gas pressure spring from a VW Golf 4 hatchback
we take 2 gas springs, one at each side... on the front and at the top a deflexion roll so the wire is puled up and down... so calculate 4 x the path from one spring
floppy1234: have you actually done/try this already?
Those gas loaded shocks are designed to put pressure to hold open a lid. hense excessive pressure in one direction only.
how come i always miss the insanity
that's so unfair.
toast_: butterfly effect
are you suggesting IRC is a catastrophic equation
chaos theory == IRC
toast_: you need to using a spring
floppy1234: you need to use a spring
i was like "This could get interesting!"
then, not so much
way to let me down.
toast_: make a foam cutter and I'll mock you with crazy ideas if that 'll make you feel better.
JymmmEMC i know someone who has the same construction
floppy1234: and ?
if i ever need foam cut i'm going to hand it to my girlfriend
and tell her to do it
JymmmEMC it works
but i have a CAD Draw
i go to search
to me, that's almost more dangerous
than a sketch done in MS paint
floppy1234: does it cut clean? quick? does it smell when cut?
he who smelt it dealt it
yo robin, how thin of a kerf can you get in 1mm steel?
for a "normal" laser cutter
what's a normal laser cutter
mid power CO2
o cant found
cant cut steel with less than about 500W right?
robin_sz: I'd be *SO* happy with a 200W CO2
300w will just ... and I mean just, cut 3mm
not really practical though
robin_sz: Oh, I did't realize CO2 will cut metal,
thought you needed YAG
99% of cutting is co2
we have cut stainless with ours
1500 to 6kw
what wavelength issue would develop
50" x 36" @ 200W would be awesome, hell even 150W
i can't think of any wavelength issue that would develop in cutting
toast_: At the 60W CO2 can't even make metals
but that's not a wavelength issue
toast_: different materials absorb at different wavelengths?
a yag @ 60W can
oh, i see what you're talking about
i was thinking, "phase?"
JymmmEMC: so what does the 60W YAG cost compared to a 1.5kW CO2 ?
you need circular polarization to reliably cut metal
awallin: prob the same
any particular reason why?
60w yag wont cut metal
toast_: according to robin in my faulty memory, steel is transparent at higher temperatures to YAG's wavelength
* robin_sz nods
1w yag =~ 2w CO2
fenn: yeah, that must be it. silicon is transparent from 1.3 microns or so up, so steel could be prettu transparent to 1064nm when heated
hrm. i'm thinking about making a thing out of silicon steel, i hope that wouldnt be a problem
a switched reluctance motor
that was my next question
what do they add silicon to steel for
it has lower electrical conductivity for reduced eddy currents
and that would by why i hadn't heard of it
silicon steel == stuff that make transformer core laminates out of?
needs more nitralloy!
[20:39:16] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_steel
is that the same as "soft iron cores?
i dont think so
great... so now there are 4substances for cores... ferrite, powder iron, soft iron, and silicon steel
air is totally a substance.
fenn: probably can't weld it
find me a high Q, 1H or better coil w/an air core
alex_joni: wasn't planning to
fenn: when it cracks after 10k hours
you just said substances
good night guys
air cores are great stuff... if only the u factor was higher !@#!@$#@$!
it's 80% steel powder right?
isn't mu metal used only for shielding?
its used in some special relay cores
and ... stuff
the main reason it isnt used is price
apparently super pure iron is even better than mu-metal
how is it better? higher u value or higher tolerance for saturation?
um, permeability whatever that is
that's the u value
Hmmm so more compact coils nice
oh while on this topic... is there any reason why people don't use back emf on a stepper as a feedback method?
ds2: i think that's what the "unstallable stepper" thing is all about, not sure
eh? how's linearity important? thought you get a pulse for ever step?
fenn: interesting... I'll add that to my reading list
don't listen to me
"Hard Drives have mu-metal backings to the magnets found in the drive."
* ds2 looks at the pile of dead hard drives :D
what are you going to do with a pile of backing plates
sell it as mu metal!
there is a lot of cool stuff inside a dead hard drive
like spacer rings that are more parallel then a cheap set of parallels
some wingnut was re-using the dsp's
didn't think of doing that
good source of scrap aluminum for casting too
was thinking of using the platters a fly wheel for a tiny engine
most people wouldn't know what to do with accurate parallels
they are cheaper and would be good for a HSM
accidentally ding one up... no problem
won't hurt your tools either
why not just get a $10 surface plate from enco
and cut slices off it :)
Mmmm machining granite
i never really got the idea of parallels.. why not just cut a notch into your vise jaws?
because you can use parallels not in a vise
for inspection, for clamping
also you can hang parallels off each side to give more support to wide workpieces
in a vise, that is
parallels also let you get away with a more ding'ed up vise
a good parallel is what you should true a vise with
eh.. why not just indicate along the fixed jaw?
usually not as good as a good parallel
or use a piece of ground rod
circularity is the hardest geometrical condition to establish
so you don't want to use a rod
just fully trust your CMM }:-)
the only measuring machine i'm going to trust is a universal measuring machine
cmms are ridiculous
what is a "universal measuring machine"?
it's a machine that is more accurate than a CMM, and is continually testing
a stick ?
rather than points
it has a spindle, and on the end the gauge is mounted on a bar
so you can test for all kinds of stuff you can't test for on a cmm
toast__: does that mean you don't trust CD audio either or DVD video?
not analog enough
they are all done by sampling
uh, that doesn't have to do with universal measuring machines verifying the gauges
that are used to generate the error plots in CMMS
I'd think if you can establish the spactial equivalent of nyquist before using a CMM, you should be fine
you don't have to use analog equipment in a universal machine
the real good ones use digital interferometry for linear displacement and can use non-contact digital gauge heads
i still dont understand what the difference is
can you not use non-contact probes on a cmm?
cmms take point measurements from a probe tip
a universal machine can produce a continuous profile
how does it measure the profile?
by riding the stylus along the surface
and that's not a series of points?
if you're using a digital gauge head it is
is the difference just the way the machine does its thing?
yes but the theory states that the points are equivalent (i.e. contain all the information you need to create the continuous profile) if you sample it under certain conditions
but if your sampling rate on that digital head is 200khz
it doesn't matter
fenn: sort of
a cmm is a lot faster than a universal
if i were to make one, what would be the major parts?
an XY table, a spindle with a Z axis
fenn: for a CMM or?
and a dial test head of some sort
ds2: for a umm
on the Z axis
toast__: like a DTI?
you could use a DTI if you wanted to make your own
with some kind of electronic sampling thing watching the needle?
ok, and a CMM would run until the fixed ball on a stick hits the part, and then it stops?
seems silly to call it a different machine
and the universal machine is considered a primary gauge
because i could stick a dial indicator on a cmm and it'd be a umm
no, it wouldn't
firstly, not accurate enough, but that's not a fundimental difference
I'd think the CMM motion is not repeatable enough
the purpose of a ucm, primarily, is to profile geometric features
it produces coordinates through accurate geometric profiling
since position is Zhead + Zuncertainity + DTI reading
with a UCM, you can determine what caused something to go out of tolerance
in the manufacturing proccedure
you cant do that with a cmm?
because of that geometric analysis
you can determine that a certain feature is wrong
because it isnt fast enough?
but not why it is wrong
no, a UMM isn't faster
it's way slower
that's why shops love CMMs
they're way more accurate than the shop tolerance is
i mean, if you wanted to make a whole profile with a cmm
you couldn't do it
theory says you can
you don't have a reliable rotary axis
on a cmm
there's always a radius on the probe, even if you call it a "stylus"
and that's an intergal part of the UMM
especially for comparative length measurement
and checking gages
with a CMM, shops can check everything they'd ever need
which is why shops don't use UMMs
but metrology labs still use UMMs because they can check geometric features to an innately higher degree of accuracy, as well as comparative length
speaking to the popularity and speed of CMMs over UMMs, you now have to special order a UMM from a company
as they no longer exist as production items
not that they ever really were
toast__ is now known as toastydeath
hello all have a few questions first how or has anyone written anything to use emc2 Axis for digitizing? Question 2 I am wanting to run my cards at 8th step which is 16000 steps per inch and axis says it cant do this what do I need to change and how do I set the pulse frquency I hear that optimal is at or under 1khz at full step and 8khz at 8th step
Guest499: you can use whatever step resolution you want, Axis shouldn't care (it doesn't know the resolution, so it can't care)
depending on the PC, you should be able to get up to roughly 20-30 KHz step rates
if you have 16000 steps/inch, this will be 1.25 to ~2 inches/sec, or 80-120 IPM
as for measuring, there is a probe command which can be used with loops to do scans. it's probably not going to replace a CMM, but it can work for many things
digitizing at 120 ipm?
that would be very impressive to watch
I didn't say that 120 IPM is optimal for scanning :)
it tells me that I am asking to do 16000 cycles a sec and that is above the limit I had the same problem when I tried to run at 1/4 step I got around it by lowering the base period from 50000 to 35000 but I am not sure if I can go any lower and if that is the proper way to fix this anyway
it's one way. so you're saying that you got an error like this:
STEPGEN: Requested max step rate of XXXXX is too high ....
only the temperature is high here
i am too scared to go to the liquor store
i am almost 22
yes I believe it say the requested cycles of 16000 a sec ist above the limit
but the guy at the store thinks the "5" on my "1985" birth date is "1986"
22 and scared to buy liquor.... chicken??
i have my girlfriend do it
but she's on vacation
so i'm just going to stay dry until she gets back
what about the frequency I have read that stepper motors really loose torque over 1Khz at full 8Khz at 8th
your legal... and worried about what?
i missed out on a nice Hardinge lathe last nite on e-bay
getting thrown out of the liquor store because the guy has crappy eyesight
Guest499: it really depends on the motor, the driver, and the load
dmessier: a hardinge hlv?
1000 steps/second is pretty low speed - only 300 RPM
yes.. super-precision chnc II
that may be high for a very large stepper
that's not an hlv
i have heard some really crappy stories about the hardinge cnc gear
and also have bad experience with the cnc stuff in our shop
programmable resolution and offset capability to 0.00001
ne,a 23 DIY 3977 chip board and cutting wood
dmessier: ours has that too
it doesn't do that
and that's the general report
i don't know, actually
i think it is a conquest
cobra doesn't sound familiar
this is a 1986 machine..
i remember hitting ".00001" thinking it was .0001
and wondering why the turret wasn't moving when i was cranking the jogwheel
before the went offshore with production
this is old, as well
the new stuff has similar complaints
but people tend to report crap stories and not good ones
current setup equals 2000 revs equals 1 inch at full step
flat beb gang style tooling?? flat turret or a top turret
12 position turret
what about digitizing with axis?
sounds like a conquest
this machine does ridiculous stuff
what have been your problems??
uh, ridiculous taper
4 thou in a couple inches
and it's not constant
but it IS consistant
someone ahas crushed an x axis thrust bearing i'd say
it's consistant error
it's the same every time
which does not indicate a bearing problem
but not always??
some of the errors are random
but not the biggest ones
the biggest ones appear to be warped ways
we run a couple parts, measure the errors that do not change
and change the program to add/remove taper
does it have linear guide ways??
i believe so
they can be striaghtend out quite easily with a bonkometer
you're suggesting we hammer on our ways?
usually only held down with m6 or m8 screws
i don't think the folks are going to go for that
im suggesting you realign them
my current employer would rather throw the lathe out and get a new one
in the event of that need
right now they're content to tell the lathe guy to program the error out
i had a Chiron that was a stack-up of 2 sets of those and they went out to lunch every 3 months or s
the moral of my story was just to caution you that both my company and several other have had problems
also i laugh riotously every time i see the ".00001"
i've run many chncII and really loved the machines... my luck i guess
or that they really are good lathes and just real vocal people got the bad lot
yes it is funny to see that and NOT be making watches
straightening ways is not so scary,
well, i don't think any lathe is going to be holding .00001
see robin understands
as it comes from the factory
providing you have some way to measure it as you beat it
these did new...
in any random environment
i don't know man, i'd want to see the metrology report
before i'd believe it
like I said ...
providing you have some way to measure it as you beat it
no, i meant for the .00001
not for the way thing
oh, dont believe that, thats wishful thinking
we ran some AECL parts to +/-.0001 and we ran statistically with a cpk of 8 or 9
process capability index
atomic energy Canada ltd
* robin_sz smells six sigma on the air
and what does this cpk measure
target/spread/ std deviation all rolled into 1 #
it basically rates your chances of getting a good part
yeah, i hate the suggestion that machine tools are random
but regarding the .0001
thats pretty good for ANY toll
a 1.33 means your in control
but what about the .00001
toastydeath, thats just a number on a display, it means nothing
that's what i'm saying - why is it there
i fully understand the enviornmental factors required in order to machine to ten microinches
in that range you surface finish can bite .00001 off your part.. or you turn them u/s by .00003 and hold your hand on it just prior to measuring
in other words, its beyond the normal capabilities
and hope the inspector doesn't know what they're doing
but what i'm asking is
is the machine free tool path capable of locating and contouring to .00001
we only had 1 guage inhouse to measure to +/-.00001
first find something that can even measure that!
we have a whole room of stuff that can measure that
BUT I DIGRESS
not a cmmm pls...
no, capacatence probes and LVDT's
they are all CRAP even the Zeiss
cmm's are so out of date
actually we just had an arguement in here about CMMs versus UMMs
universal measuring machine
the big idea these days ... is on-machine measuring
the Moore #3 Universal Measuring Machine?
rennishaw probe etc
probe and cnc??
dmessier: it's very similar, it's meant to be more accurate than a jig grinder
to verify stuff that is jig ground and diamond turned
not "fake accurate" like a cmm
i see... never run across 1
but "real accurate" like you need to do real work
basically, probe a reference ring, calibrate the machine, then machien a part, use the probe to check it
robin_sz: i'm familiar, and it's a good concept
it reduces scrap and the machine becomes self-correcting
its Rennishaws latest baby
but inly ass good as machine capability
and that's why you still need an inspection department and verified machines
which are both other good ideas
but it is more accurate than taking it off the machine to a cmm
ive seen the marposs and m&h stuff
i will argue two things in regard to that CMM statement
one, it depends on the CMM
in relation to the accuracy of the machine
and two, you still can't measure geometric relationships on-machine accurately
most cases accurately enough, i will grant
m&h sware can do gd&t
depends on the probe and the off-board software
and the machine still has the part clamped
the dominant thermal source is the machine
thats where the errors come in, unclamping and re-clamping
so ship the part IN the machine if thats where its good
and thermal changes
three very large sources of error on most machines
you aerospace guys crack me up ;)
i'm studying ultraprecision machining and gagemaking
landing gear components
THAT IS WHAT I WANT TO BE WHEN I GROW UP =(
aerospace are the only people using that sort of stuff really
where is landing gear made?
on the ground
toronto canada... 2 of the world leaders in landing gear within 1 hour
the "worrying about .0001" " part
so do gagemakers!
not on l/g
i also worry about .0001, and i make bearings
but yeah pretty much nobody cares about .0001
we are going to be laserign some aero stuff
usually .0001 on a print means the engineer hit 0 too many times and forgot to check it
engine stuff ...
lasering the cutting process
or lasering the measurement process
* robin_sz nods
bits for engines
what kind of tolerances are you getting
or hope to get
whatever that is in inches
i worked in 1 shop that was on EVERY dwg... all parts had been NO QUOTED in 4-6 countries
i hope to open a shop that does nothing but .0001 and under
there's a lot of dumb engineers out there
me too... next month i hope
i think .1 is like uh
and hard turning
oh i have no idea
hold on on second
ohh i was so right
so very right.
hard turning is neat
do you have machines picked out
RC 60 and up
yes and no
52 and up
my bad =(
ceramics, diamond, and cbn insert tooling
cubic boron nitride
too slow and cant u/cut for chrome runouts
it's like diamond but doesn't dissolve in ferrous materials
i like cbn personally
hard turning is like, ultrahigh surface speeds
and fast feeds to match
pricier than PCD
i dunno if i would trust an ebay insert
if i was hard milling
not cbn or pcd
dmessier: what's your opinion on whisker ceramics vs. cbn
if you have one
i worked with a family run outfit locally.. do ALL my diamond grinding...custom to order
(i've never used either)
seems they are about $2.50 an insert on ebay
whisker works well in many mat'ls...
cbn is like 50 an insert
mine are 125.00 per
our PCD is 70
i don't know where i saw 50
but carbide made 30 parts at 26.00 it pcd made 1500 paarts
we use the PCD for surface finish only
so we only get like, 20 parts
before the insert is dead for our purposes
we wre required to ship 1200 pcs per day... thats alot of downtime for insert changes
sumitomo are a good source if you can handle their lead times
yeah i like the jobs where i only produce like, five parts a day
high production is not my thing
i like the jobs that run for 3 weeks on my machine
1 P/D is my threshold ;)
hahaha. are you mostly unattended?
although i switched up how i run this job so now i don't get any parts done for a week
but then they all finish in the same day
i hate high volume... mno we are only now getting into multimachine for 1 operator
ds2: what are you making
[22:54:07] <robin_sz> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10-PCS-SUMITOMO-CBN-INSERTS-DNMA-431-BN600_W0QQitemZ180143434233QQihZ008QQcategoryZ58209QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem
toastydeath: hobby projects
i am doing the finish turning on 18" bearings
but work wise, I prefer to be limited to 1 part of a type per day
looks likk the real deal
in otherwords, living under a bridge in a box is preferable to working production
takes me a whole week to take .010" from 22 bearings
two roughing cuts, one per side, at 4.5 inches
30 minutes for that cut per side or so
then the part change takes forever
Are these good quality? http://www.lerneaenhydra.net/images/rsgallery/original/IMG_1114.JPG
then the finishing cuts go .0005 deep, but they take 45 minutes
because they're only a tenth deep at a tenth per rev feed rate
at 300 rpm
i have a lot of time to read and inspect parts
JymmmEMC, define good
JymmmEMC, then define quality
what kind of tool do you use to do a 0.0005 cut and have it not skip/bounce around?
robin_sz: BP good?
that's why we only get a couple parts per diamond
because the sharp edge wears out
and it starts to skip
and the .0005 cuts are roughing cuts
JymmmEMC, unlikely to be bp good, or bp price
what's the material?
we take 9x .0005 cuts
then we take 5x .0001 cuts
the workholding sucks so bad
robin_sz: Like is square, holds tolerances, accurate, etc
they come out flat to 20 millionths on the machine
but when you unclamp it they spring back out to anywhere between 2-4 tenths
and nobody will let me rework the thing
JymmmEMC: what is your idea of accurate and square
to how many decimal places
using normal scientific interperation, "90 deg" would mean +/-10 deg ;)
does anyone know offhand how many seconds of a degree of arc four decimal places is
ds2: over 2 miles =)
how do they sharpen diamond tool bits?
if it's a PCD tool, it's hard to resharpen
and you just do the best you can with a diamond wheel
if it's an SPD tool, you gently hit it on a finishing wheel
then lap it with diamond paste on a ceramic lap
1sec == 0.0002777777 deg
JymmmEMC: there's a index table on ebay, accurate to .5 seconds
should get your accuracy requirement
now, what linear tolerance do you want?
.005 will probably happen on just about any machine ever
.001 may not happen over the full envelope, but may happen for smaller movements
and if you have gauge blocks, you can make it happen
or a file
a sharp one
scraping doesn't change a leadscrew
no, the part
squareness shouldn't be too bad on any machine
in terms of X/Y
you'll probably run out a couple thou over the envelope
on a poor one
but that's still inside .005
get it within 0.005, then grind it
a good policy
i like the plexiglass belt covers on that mill
I see it like this... If *I* with no reall accurate tools can visiually see that something is fubared, it aint square/accurate etc
take that as you will.
toastydeath: think anti-HF
well HF buys the same castings as everyone else does
fenn: I like that too... visual inspection
they just sell them semi-finished
think of it as a kit
unless you spend a pretty decent penny
so is that machien the same type of casting?
you're going to get in the same range as HF
the white one?
maybe not quite as bad, but the same general area
Doesn't BP let their casting settle for a year?
BP casts them right in the first place
in which case you don't need to let them sit
they used to, before people knew better
actually, they used to leave them sitting around for 1-3 years before truing and scraping them
now they just cool them down realllllly slow
you still need to let them sit, to relieve stress
SWPLinux: not anymore
you can also stick it in an oven for a while after you cast it
there was an experement they ran
with proper casting in the first palce
gray iron is nearly perfectly stable
for very good accuracy, you need to stress relieve after grinding/milling a surface
What an unusual looking snail... http://www.lerneaenhydra.net/images/rsgallery/original/DSCN0973.JPG
so you can do the same trick with a stupid foundry
moreso than ceramic, and moreso than granite
SWPLinux: THAT is correct
which is why machine manufactuers still use planers
and not milling machines
why is a planer better?
it shouldn't matter (much)
a planer is not traumatic to the surface
distortion of the crystal structure?
sort of, it's more like brinneling
just take lighter cuts
Well, is there a mill that size with the quality of a BP ?
the intermittant action of the tool
same shit... post heat treatment
and they found even post heat treatment
that the material was still unstable
and that single point tooling was the only way to ensure the long term stability of the iron
JymmmEMC: a BP is good, but a lot of people will laugh at them because they're not rigid enough
literally, you can machine perminant instability into a part
not rigid enough?? really?
that you cannot remove
unless you make it out of titanium or inconel or something, there is no way to make a little tabletop machine rigid enough to do "real work"
(for some definitions of real work)
brigeports are ridiculously un-rigid
hehe titanium would be the worst choice possible
did not know that
SWPLinux: I got some inconel here =)
and that what makes them the most popular machines out there i guess
for wood or plastic, a small machine may actually be better than a BP, since there's less thermal effect
swp ever visit the granite mines?
the ones in Barre, yes
SWPLinux: I was thinking for metals
but people equate titanium as 'stronger than anything' even though it isn't
titanium is very strong for its weight
the two ideal machine materials are cast iron and any number of nitralloys
not necessarily for its volume
some vermontage for the others: http://www.edwardburtynsky.com/WORKS/Quarries/Vermont/Vermont_15.html
there was a commercial of a titanium saw cutting thru a truck.. duh
SWPLinux: titanium has poor modulus and damping
Ti is good strength to weight ratio... and keeps strength at temp
heh - got a couple of core samples here :)
its like rubber
but titanium is SHINY!
so is gold
rubbery or shiny?
titanium is good for art as you can anodize it
if you cant make it right make it shiney.... was what 1 boss used to say
cast iron has one of the absolute best long-term dimensional stabilities of any material
it is also one of the best shock absorbers
nitralloys are also very stable, and incredibly wear resistant
it is good for anything that people will buy... Titanium shaver..
so you make your machine out of cast iron, and your machine screws and spindles from nitralloy
titanium house paint
well, titanium is harder and more wear resistant than stainless so it makes good knives
which is what Moore, SIP, P&W, etc all did
and razors and scissors etc
so the titanium scissor manufacturers say
i dunno about harder
i'm not a titanium guy
I would not have thought that. shows you what I know.. I thought it was lighter and more dense than aluminum - and that was it.
but how well does Ti hold an edge?
fairly well, from what i understand
because it's so giving
deflects & returns
i'd like to see a blade made of memory metal
so you heat it up and it gets sharp again :)
hahah, would that happen?
[23:21:50] <SWPLinux> http://www.supraalloys.com/Machining_titanium.htm
on that microscopic level?
that would be cool, if that is true
superalloys can get up to RC 90
and i'm pretty sure some titanium alloys exist past RC 32
Ginsu knives, Gen 2... just pop it in the oven and ....
i just don't know if it passes superalloy hardness
IT SLICES IT DICES
IT TAKES YOUR CHILDREN TO SCHOOL
they say RC 38 on that supraalloys page
we have a brick of rc 90 superalloy steel
well the neat thing is you could make it with a really fine edge, because it wouldnt matter if it got bent/nicked
we can't even grind it
it just eats the wheel
even the diamond wheels?
we don't have a diamond wheel
but being steel, it would eat it
especially the diamond wheel, silly
we'd need a cbn wheel
if they had a diamond wheel, they wouldn't have a brick of RC 90 superalloy :)
if we had a diamond wheel and a brick of rc 90 steel
we wouldn't have a diamond wheel for very long
it is not like diamond wheels are that expensive
they are if you continually destroy them on steels
yeah i've got 5 of em for my dremel :P
SPEAKING of dremal
does anyone have a pen/microgrinder
and if so, how do you like the brand you have
i've got 2 of the hf air pencil thingies; they really suck
well like i see some decent brand ones for 120
but then i see one for 300
and i was wondering how much better the 300 one is
i think it'd be best to make your own
hmm. if you had lots and lots of money (and a minimg company, probably), I wonder how well a tungsten machine body would work
of course, you'd also need a well reinforced floor
swp why not make it out of sintered silicon carbide?
they do make machines out of SiC
which are, i might add, both glasses
something like that
and they do pretty well, actually
for high precision stuff
very rigid, easy to put together
they suffer from a little long term stability problems
but other than that they're pretty good
good thermal properties, not very shock damping though
solid monocrystalline diamond
cut to shape with electron beams
that would be a very large HPHT press
pew pew pew lasers
i read some guy's making 2 inch dia 1/4 inch thick discs
is that the crazy new grown thing
i forget, it was a year ago
i think it is
cool.. and our DMG is one of the only machines that can cut it... ultrasonic machining center
that's another process i've never seen!
only read about!
is there no end to the cool stuff you guys do =(
i trained on it for 3 weeks with the DMG rep from Germany
how do you like it
is it slow?
being applications engineer for 3 of the major oems for 10 yrs doest hurt
as opposed to not cutting it... its ok.. as fast as plunge edm...LOL
"we race molasses very competitvely"
i have the ulscers and scrap pink slips to prove it
i thought ultrasonic machining was when you ran ultrasound through the cutting tool
well, time to see if udev is working here. bbl
yes.. a diamond impregnated - tuned tool
the one i saw was a small vmc, sorta like datron dynamics
it smashes up&down at frequency
this was a 5 axis bp sized machine 3 cnc axes 2 manual rotaries with scales
its pretty cool to machine profiles in glass
you have to glue the mat'l to subplates
hitting up the craft store for more hot glue sticks
got some glue guns for $1 yesterday.. got have a nice supply of sticks too
its pretty out there.... but at the time wafers were being cut for 2500.00 us a piece and this machine could do 1 in 1.5 hrs... so it was a wise decision
glue is a remarkable solution for stress free workholding
magnets are were stress free work holding comes in
only for aluminum
Eeeesh, grabbed a piece of glass to see if there was any flat spot on this mounting block.... 1 out of 6.
seems like magnets would distort the piece
magnets do distort the piece
shim in free staete then mag on
glue it to the magnet then turn magnet on?
magnet compresses the whole part
which is only a problem if you're really going close
but it does compress the part
what would you guys do with my straight shock for the DHC8... 8 ft long 7075-73 aluminum
also is "straight shock" a shock absorber
hole up the center... +\-.01 most places
or that you were actually shocked
make a power hammer
dmessier: am i jerry-rigging the solution
or using real machines
part grows when we drill it and gradiually shrinks over a week in WIP
like, i can give you a ridiculous solution that is completely cost ineffective but will produce good parts 100% of the time
i have aerospace facility to work with and any subcontractor I choose
toastydeath: you have: a roll of duct tape, bent screwdriver, $0.99 pair of pliers, a broken backsaw blade, and 1.0000000000000 gram brass weight calibrated to NIST standards
you gun drill solid stock?
i would gun drill it with temp-controlled oil
100% id bet the farm YOU cant
let it sit
i'd then put it on a boring lathe
hole up the center prior to h/t to get necessary section thickness
no way you could bore it out
boring lathes come 300' long
you can too bore it
it rolls over ... lathes.. deep hole drill m/c , boring mills , 4 spinle prifilers...hone
yada yada yadad
dmessier: whats the inner diameter?
i'm guessing the wall isnt thick enough to support it during boring either
boring lathes support the part in many chucks
flex in the part, flex in the boring bar
top end 2.5 dia with for... front end 5.25 or so.. c/bored about 8" down for seal pack
you've never seen a boring lathe, then
boring lathes have a master headstock
then a ton of roller rests
our deep hole drill does too...
that are full enclosure rests
we rotate part and tool
the boring bar rides on two carrages
one on either side
so that the sag in the line bar is constant
and the bore is true
that's how they did barrels for battleships
ours runs on a bush in the front off a top hat
gun drills are awesome
our toshiba bmills could do 7/16" dia x 6 feet
holly poitns with a twist =)
hollow points with a twist
in aluminum anyway...LOL
aluminum isn't too bad as long as you keep it temp controlled
keep it at whatever temperature your machine is at
and it will work
a lot of sitting is involved in big pieces waiting for the roughing heat to dissipate
else its siezure time... and look NO HOLE
sounds like YOU have experience =)
good judgment comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement
but the oil shower method of temperature control is a great option and it works really well
anytime temperature is an issue
as long as you can cool you oil
well, that's a given
if you cant' cool the oil you can't really do it
many ppl have thought a simple auto rad and a fan would work
and it doesnt
you know, lawerence livermore national labs
actually did make that work
using a house fan and a standard car radiator
in a climate controlled lab... who cares...
except there was 10k of temperature control equipment pumping fluid into the radiator
the oil shower method works on a shop floor
yup... and it keeps stuff from rusting too
i've always wondered what would happen if someone decided to use a directional drillhead
i dumped a gun drill tank in about 3 minutes 1 time.... drilled thru the backup block ... ; (
that must have been very messy
directional drill head??? Vector drill???
the thing they use in oil
with the little fins
that pop out to steer the drill
look it up .. i have the macros ready
a drill head that steers itself?
like, AT the drill?
at the point of cutting?
our vector drill application... 5 axis hole on 3 axis machine
drill and tap
tool holder has a u-jount in its body
and it bends to angle up to 45 degrees
the only drilling and tapping i do is "soft tapping"
in a bridgeport
start with a ballnosed spot and pilot on that.. move in x-y-z about its knuckle and drill at 45 degrees
where you hold the tap hard enough that it will turn but you hope it doesn't snap when it hits the bottom