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[00:00:44] <JymmmEMC> I already have 0.10 tip, if that's the case.
[00:00:56] <JymmmEMC> 0.010"
[00:01:10] <JymmmEMC> maybe .005
[00:01:13] <JymmmEMC> dont recall atm
[00:02:10] <JymmmEMC> No, it's .010
[00:02:28] <JymmmEMC> 60 deg
[00:05:49] <mess> i have some tri ground .005 r x 15 degrees... only .062 dia and 1.5 long ... hard to handle..
[00:06:14] <mess> c6 carbide
[00:07:13] <mess> made for peck-scribe marking on aluminum
[00:09:26] <mess> visited a new facility... to chk out thier RFID tool id system.. EMc should have accomodation for that
[00:10:13] <mess> hands off tool offset measurment and setting.. bukl tooling..
[00:11:23] <mess> it they try to pond it into the wrong pocket/machine.... it errors out and hands back the tool
[00:13:54] <fenn> maybe you should donate a test system
[01:01:10] <mess> ;)
[01:16:15] <mess> :-/
[01:36:24] <ds2> heheh
[05:40:16] <LawrenceG> Jymmm: did you figure out your 22mm question? I believe it is the size hole you drill in the console
[05:41:03] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: Yeah, I ssorta thought that. then was trying to estimate the overall size of the buttons
[05:41:26] <LawrenceG> Jymmm: re prox sensor.... depends if the output is a source or a sink type driver in the prox... some have both
[05:41:52] <LawrenceG> Jymmm: do you have specs on prox?
[05:41:53] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: pick one
[05:42:05] <Jymmm> LawrenceG:
http://www.pioneerbreaker.com/Default.aspx?Category_ID=47ecbb57-d7eb-4cc3-9d4c-258e76025539
[05:42:10] <Jymmm> pick a cheap one =)
[05:42:32] <LawrenceG> slow web site... waiting
[05:42:52] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: I was more curious than anything else.
[05:43:37] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: I like it
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150128975968
[05:46:34] <LawrenceG> if you find a sinking output... it may be open collector and could be attached to the parallel port pin directly... watch out though as most I have seen use 12-28v as a supply
[05:47:05] <LawrenceG> they are really meant to drive opto inputs on PLC or OPTO 22 type modules
[05:48:27] <LawrenceG> The NPN outputs are sinking style.... they will pull down to ground when they detect metal... the main question is whether or not they have internal pullups to the supply or are they open collector
[05:49:19] <LawrenceG> Those are cute stop/start buttons
[05:49:33] <LawrenceG> not a bad price
[05:52:09] <Jymmm> they have stop/startw/amber 120V LED, and on/off w/ white 120V LED
[05:53:59] <LawrenceG> nice... looking for prox switches for you...... there are a few, like ebay 170134342857
[05:54:39] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: dont sweat it, I'm just not there yet.... looking for a CHEAP db25 BB
[05:55:52] <alex_joni> morning guys
[05:55:52] <LawrenceG> nope... the above look like cheap magnetic reed switches... like alarm window sensors
[05:57:28] <LawrenceG> hi Alex
[05:57:38] <Jymmm> alex_joni: howdy
[05:57:51] <LawrenceG> just about bed time her on the west coast of Canada
[05:58:04] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: 5 hours togo
[05:58:10] <alex_joni> LawrenceG: I'm early at work today :P
[05:58:28] <LawrenceG> heloo to .ro
[06:00:02] <LawrenceG> Jymmm: check out ebay 2301567586215000leds to play with
[06:00:39] <LawrenceG> that seller has a whole pile of leds that are going cheap
[06:01:34] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: SMT
http://www.components4less.com/pdfs/LSL896P2.pdf
[06:02:02] <LawrenceG> great little units for pcb indicators
[06:02:13] <LawrenceG> on breakout boards etc
[06:02:21] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: Actually I was goin for the nice panel pkg like
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-COMPACT-22MM-PILOT-LIGHT-YELLOW-LED-BULB-120V_W0QQitemZ150137822200QQihZ005QQcategoryZ42898QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[06:03:07] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: LED, reflector, and colored lens
[06:04:05] <LawrenceG> http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-NIB-STOP-START-PUSH-BUTTON-STATION-CONTROL-2NO-2NC_W0QQitemZ150144311416QQihZ005QQcategoryZ42898QQcmdZViewItem nice
[06:04:58] <Jymmm> not a bad price either, even if you take the buttons out of it
[06:06:01] <LawrenceG> yea... you could probably put 2 of your other start/stops in that case... those guys have 89 pages of stuff in their store
[06:06:18] <Jymmm> I havne't had a chance to go thru all their stuff yet.
[06:08:42] <LawrenceG> http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-22mm-SELECTOR-SWITCH-3-POSITION-MAINTAINED-1NO-1NC_W0QQitemZ150144807152QQihZ005QQcategoryZ58166QQcmdZViewItem we use to use switches like that for off/auto/on selections
[06:09:39] <LawrenceG> those are very good prices
[06:10:03] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: I'd like to have OFF/AUTO/ON, but I wnat to figure out some indicator light to where it's at from a distance.
[06:12:42] <Jymmm> Like blink when IN auto mode, but not running
[06:13:05] <LawrenceG> they are nice for lots of things like coolant etc where you want to force things on or off or let the computer control it
[06:13:34] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: I just want to be AWARE of what mode it's in at all times, to CYA
[06:14:23] <LawrenceG> http://cgi.ebay.com/ONE-NEW-PILOT-LIGHT-16MM-AMBER-24VDC-AC-NIB_W0QQitemZ7599272081QQihZ017QQcategoryZ42898QQcmdZViewItem cheaper indicators
[06:15:09] <LawrenceG> classic ladder here you come
[06:15:16] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: 24v which I don't have and I suspect filament
[06:15:23] <Jymmm> which I don't want
[06:16:40] <alex_joni> 24V is still safer than 120V
[06:16:50] <alex_joni> hope you won't do limit switches with 120V
[06:16:57] <Jymmm> alex_joni: 440
[06:17:00] <LawrenceG> 24 v is nice for operator panels
[06:17:12] <alex_joni> and E-Stop chain
[06:17:18] <Jymmm> alex_joni: (12v)
[06:17:19] <alex_joni> and limits
[06:17:19] <alex_joni> and IO
[06:17:22] <LawrenceG> tensd to be cheaper i/o modules as well
[06:17:24] <alex_joni> oh, it should work then
[06:17:30] <alex_joni> the 24V lights on 12V
[06:17:43] <alex_joni> not as bright though, but with way more lifetime :P
[06:17:45] <LawrenceG> http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-NIB-HOIST-PUSHBUTTON-CRANE-CONTROL-RELAY-CONTACTOR_W0QQitemZ150110134014QQihZ005QQcategoryZ4660QQcmdZViewItem new emc pendant!
[06:18:17] <LawrenceG> how about one for each axis
[06:24:11] <LawrenceG> good night guys.... off to bed for this guy
[06:25:34] <Jymmm> G'Night LawrenceG
[06:28:08] <alex_joni> night LawrenceG
[06:34:42] <Guest875> -
[06:41:27] <Jymmm> Now, HERE's a pendant for ya....
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-UP-DOWN-LEFT-RIGHT-LU-RU-CRANE-CONTROL-PUSHBUTTON_W0QQitemZ150012290067QQihZ005QQcategoryZ42898QQcmdZViewItem
[06:52:04] <alex_joni> it's a bit too bulky for my taste
[06:52:54] <Jymmm> Yeah, I know
[06:53:05] <Jymmm> </sarcasim>
[06:53:32] <Jymmm> overhead hoist I'd suspect
[06:58:51] <Jymmm> Damn good price....
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-OMRON-LIMIT-SWITCH-40MM-ROLLER-PLUNGER-1NO-1NC_W0QQitemZ150125692209QQihZ005QQcategoryZ55833QQcmdZViewItem
[06:58:58] <Jymmm> alex_joni: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[07:13:19] <alex_joni> looks ok
[07:13:38] <Jymmm> too big for my needs
[07:13:55] <Jymmm> they have a wire rod limit switch too
[07:16:06] <Jymmm> This doens't make sense....
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-22mm-SELECTOR-SWITCH-3-POSITION-MAINTAINED-1NO-1NC_W0QQitemZ150137715566QQihZ005QQcategoryZ58166QQcmdZViewItem
[07:16:21] <Jymmm> 3 postion, but the contacts are 1no, and 1 nc
[07:16:39] <Jymmm> I'm looking to do AUTO/OFF/ON
[07:16:55] <alex_joni> usually these are OFF-ON-OFF
[07:17:46] <Jymmm> that doens't make sense either
[07:45:03] <Jymmm> alex_joni:
[07:45:33] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Does this look like I could solder on screw terminal strips?
[07:45:35] <Jymmm> http://cgi.ebay.com/DB25-male-connector-breakout-prototype-PCB-board-kit_W0QQitemZ110154007738QQihZ001QQcategoryZ36327QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD7VQQcmdZViewItem
[08:27:48] <alex_joni> Jymmm: might have to redrill the holes if it won't fit
[08:28:10] <Jymmm> alex_joni: ew =)
[08:28:38] <alex_joni> Component pin diameter: 0.039 inch
[08:28:57] <alex_joni> I mean drill through the holes with a bigger bit
[08:29:37] <Jymmm> I understood
[08:29:41] <alex_joni> you meant something like this:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/~opamp/catalog/images/3_Position_PCB_Terminal_Strip_002710.jpg .. right?
[08:29:59] <Jymmm> no, let me look
[08:30:29] <alex_joni> 0.06" in Diameter on the ones above
[08:30:36] <alex_joni> so it won't fit ;)
[08:31:27] <Jymmm> like these blue ones
http://www.winfordeng.com/products/pic/brk6p6c_large.jpg
[08:34:04] <toast__> toast__ is now known as toastydeath
[08:34:08] <alex_joni> search for them at digikey and check their size
[08:39:04] <alex_joni> these are 90 deg:
http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Weidmuller/Web%20Photo/1716050000.jpg
[08:39:08] <alex_joni> http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=281-1450-ND
[08:40:03] <alex_joni> http://www.on-shore.com/catalog6/OSTVIXX2151.pdf
[08:40:13] <alex_joni> 1mm pins
[08:40:32] <alex_joni> that's exactly 0.039" so it'll fit
[08:44:58] <alex_joni> ROFLMAO:
http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=code+13.0000+event+log&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
[08:45:36] <toastydeath> arrr
[08:45:46] <toastydeath> small motors are still kind of expensive
[08:48:46] <alex_joni> darn.. how can you put a printer online with real IPs?
[08:49:14] <toastydeath> does your printer have a network port
[08:49:27] <toastydeath> do you own a real IP to assign the printer?
[08:49:37] <alex_joni> yeah, but I keep it on my internal network
[08:49:51] <alex_joni> http://brevis.net/ <- stupid
[08:50:03] <toastydeath> do you own an IP address
[08:50:23] <alex_joni> toastydeath: I do.. but I wouldn't dream of using it for my printer
[08:50:40] <toastydeath> then i'm kind of confused as to why you asked?
[08:51:07] <alex_joni> it was a ironic question
[08:51:19] <alex_joni> how stupid can you be to put a printer online with a real IP?
[08:51:31] <toastydeath> perhaps it's art?
[08:51:46] <alex_joni> toastydeath: you can even make it print from that page
[08:52:22] <archivist> hmm shall i click the print an info page link
[08:52:51] <archivist> or change the network configuration
[08:54:36] <archivist> or print an entertaining image on it
[08:56:21] <Jymmm> alex_joni: you NAT it (if you only have 1 public IP)
[08:57:23] <alex_joni> bbl
[09:10:17] <Jymmm> archivist: comments/thoughts?
http://www.candcnc.com/Mini-IO.htm
[09:11:10] <Jymmm> $64 as-is, $74 with 30A and 10A relay card
[09:12:17] <Jymmm> archivist: Manual here
http://www.candcnc.com/PDF/Mini-IO-2-Manual-REV2.pdf
[09:26:43] <toastydeath> so hey guys
[09:26:44] <toastydeath> just a quick note
[09:26:52] <toastydeath> unless you're throwing a foam party
[09:26:58] <toastydeath> regular dishwashing soap
[09:27:09] <toastydeath> isn't a substitute for dishwasher liquid
[09:27:18] <toastydeath> just in case, you know, you run out and need to run a load of dishes
[09:27:55] <Jymmm> ROTFLMAO
[09:29:41] <Jymmm> toastydeath: So, how many buckets of suds did you have to dump outside?
[09:30:38] <archivist> could you see into the room through the bubbles
[09:31:15] <toastydeath> Jymmm:
[09:31:14] <toastydeath> not sure
[09:31:21] <toastydeath> i'm gonna let the foam settle
[09:31:25] <toastydeath> and then wipe it all up
[09:31:36] <Jymmm> hahahahahahaha
[09:31:38] <toastydeath> and just run the dishwasher intermittantly on the "rinse" cycle
[09:31:55] <Jymmm> I wouldn't
[09:32:12] <toastydeath> why
[09:32:17] <Jymmm> just grab the garden hose and spray inside occasionally
[09:32:23] <Jymmm> LIGHTLY SPRAY
[09:32:25] <toastydeath> i'm in a 3rd floor apartment
[09:32:34] <toastydeath> plus the dishwasher ran for a good like, five minutes
[09:32:36] <Jymmm> get a long hose
[09:32:40] <toastydeath> before it spilled out
[09:32:58] <toastydeath> maybe i can bucket brigade it
[09:33:02] <toastydeath> from the sink
[09:33:16] <Jymmm> you dont want to stir up the suds, maybe toss glassful of water every so often
[09:33:44] <toastydeath> i don't care about the suds
[09:33:47] <toastydeath> they can be stirred
[09:34:02] <toastydeath> i just want to slowly wash the majority of the soap, which is still there
[09:34:04] <toastydeath> out of the machine
[09:34:08] <toastydeath> it will eventually die down
[09:34:11] <Jymmm> then pout in the whole bottle of soap leave the door open and hit START!
[09:34:27] <toastydeath> exciting!
[09:34:35] <toastydeath> i'm going to call my girlfriend
[09:34:39] <toastydeath> maybe she's dealt with this before
[09:34:51] <Jymmm> See how far the bubbles will travel to the 1st floor
[09:36:44] <toastydeath> no she's never dealt with this before
[09:38:43] <toastydeath> it's not THAT bad dude
[09:38:52] <toastydeath> i mopped up a lot of the crap on the floor
[09:39:03] <toastydeath> it's not like i have a kitchen that is waist high with suds
[09:39:14] <archivist> at least that proves to the gf that you are a helpless male needing help
[09:39:17] <toastydeath> which would be awesome in it's own right
[09:39:23] <Jymmm> then you are doing something wrong, try again!
[09:39:28] <toastydeath> hey i like to think i took the initiative and did the dishes
[09:39:43] <toastydeath> and continued after i discovered i did not have the necessary equipment
[09:39:42] <toastydeath> to do so
[09:40:03] <Jymmm> toastydeath: Uh hu... ran out of paper plates huh?
[09:40:09] <toastydeath> oh man
[09:40:11] <archivist> * archivist buys plastic cups and paper plates
[09:40:16] <toastydeath> i can't believe i don't have paper plates
[09:40:18] <toastydeath> goddamnit
[09:40:23] <toastydeath> i knew i was forgetting something
[09:40:26] <toastydeath> i've been here a year
[09:40:30] <toastydeath> and was like
[09:40:37] <Jymmm> wtf kind of live alone guy are you?
[09:40:39] <toastydeath> "something is still missing... what is it?"
[09:40:42] <toastydeath> i live with my girlfriend!
[09:40:48] <toastydeath> she is on vacation
[09:40:55] <toastydeath> doing some re-enactment camping ting
[09:40:56] <toastydeath> *thing
[09:40:57] <Jymmm> oh, so she was whining
[09:40:59] <toastydeath> that i refused to go to
[09:41:07] <Jymmm> dog house
[09:41:13] <Jymmm> sleeping on couch
[09:41:22] <Jymmm> aint gettting any for a week
[09:41:47] <toastydeath> two weeks, i guess
[09:41:51] <toastydeath> it doesn't matter, we've been together for five years
[09:41:55] <Jymmm> what did you do?
[09:42:16] <toastydeath> i told you man, she's doing medieval re-enactment out in the elements
[09:42:23] <toastydeath> i have a firm opinion on camping
[09:42:26] <toastydeath> and that opinion is:
[09:42:28] <toastydeath> fuck camping
[09:42:59] <Jymmm> lol, you just don't know how to go camping is all
[09:43:12] <toastydeath> dude i didn't become a machinist to sit outside under a tent without air conditioning
[09:43:32] <Jymmm> toastydeath: who said anything about not having AC ?
[09:43:40] <toastydeath> THE MEDIEVAL RE-ENACTMENT PART
[09:44:00] <toastydeath> at the time of the plague, there was no AC
[09:44:05] <Jymmm> Yeah, you'll go medievil on their asses if you dont have your AC
[09:44:10] <toastydeath> or the internet!
[09:44:13] <toastydeath> in short:
[09:44:15] <toastydeath> fuck camping!
[09:45:56] <toastydeath> plus then we are going on vacation in ohio
[09:45:59] <toastydeath> at a friend's house
[09:46:25] <Jymmm> toastydeath: I hate to break the news to you,but Ohio aint a vacation destination
[09:46:42] <toastydeath> it is if you have an independantly wealthy friend named JAne
[09:46:46] <toastydeath> *Jane
[09:47:08] <archivist> hmm and a railway museum to visit
[09:47:24] <toastydeath> fuck that shit man
[09:47:32] <toastydeath> we plan on being too inebriated to go anywhere
[09:47:39] <toastydeath> she has a Wii
[09:47:43] <toastydeath> and a lot of alcohol
[09:47:52] <Jymmm> toastydeath: Not like she's gonna give you any money after you sudded the kitchen
[09:47:59] <toastydeath> ?
[09:48:06] <toastydeath> i don't think jane knows how to do dishes
[09:48:08] <toastydeath> she'd understand
[09:48:15] <toastydeath> she hires some lady to do all that
[09:48:38] <toastydeath> this is what she'd sayL
[09:48:41] <toastydeath> :
[09:48:44] <toastydeath> "What? You can't do that?"
[09:50:13] <Jymmm> Laters folks!
[09:50:18] <toastydeath> bye!
[13:23:11] <fenn> damn near impossible to get acrylic cement these days
[13:43:17] <SWPadnos> cyanoacrilate?
[14:34:34] <Guest153> Hi newbie here. I'm having trouble running halshow. I get command not found. Also where is the main emc2 dir? Can't find the scripts dir
[14:34:58] <Guest153> Oh I'm using the live cd and have upgraded to 2.1.7 FYI
[14:40:06] <cradek> Guest153: some of the documentation is slightly outdated. You can now run those programs (halshow, halscope, halmeter) directly from the GUI
[14:40:36] <cradek> in the AXIS gui, it's the Machine menu, "Show HAL Configuration"
[14:57:51] <IceGuest_7> hello
[14:57:58] <IceGuest_7> IceGuest_7 is now known as floppy123
[14:58:02] <floppy123> well okay
[14:58:20] <floppy123> i have a problem....
[14:59:29] <floppy123> ive told you about my pneumatic driven CNC
[15:00:30] <floppy123> now, i can control with hal the valves and drive the axis
[15:00:43] <floppy123> but what must i do to close the loop?
[15:00:48] <SWPadnos> oy
[15:01:00] <floppy123> how can i set the PID?
[15:01:01] <cradek> I thought you had glass scales
[15:01:16] <floppy123> yes i have glass scales...
[15:01:34] <floppy123> and i can see the XY position on my monitor when i move the axis with hand
[15:01:36] <SWPadnos> and the feedback rate from the scales is high enough?
[15:01:57] <SWPadnos> (do they provide quadrature or something?)
[15:02:28] <floppy123> i dont understand...
[15:02:41] <floppy123> moment i must take a dictionary
[15:03:15] <SWPadnos> what HAL component are you using for feedback from the scales?
[15:04:05] <floppy123> the normal pid
[15:04:09] <floppy123> or what do you mean
[15:04:10] <floppy123> ?
[15:04:56] <SWPadnos> the input to EMC - how does EMC get position data for the monitor to display XY position
[15:05:08] <floppy123> do you mean with the feedback if the axis are calibrated?
[15:05:16] <floppy123> then we have this done
[15:05:28] <SWPadnos> I'm wondering how it's being done
[15:07:04] <floppy123> we moved the slide to first position and then to the last... then look to the counts and diveded this trough the length
[15:07:09] <floppy123> so it is 200
[15:07:20] <floppy123> every 5 µm one impuls
[15:08:24] <SWPadnos> ok, so you're using the "encoder" hal component for that?
[15:08:25] <cradek> does it have A,B signals that you connected to an input card that counts encoder pulses?
[15:08:59] <floppy123> SWPadnos yes
[15:09:16] <SWPadnos> ok. then you may be able to use PID to control this :)
[15:09:25] <floppy123> yes
[15:09:33] <floppy123> but how to configure?
[15:09:35] <SWPadnos> some scales have very slow update rates, since they're used for display only
[15:09:43] <floppy123> at the moment we have 10 for p, 0 for I and D
[15:09:58] <floppy123> and the slide jumps a litte bit
[15:10:17] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure what the response of pneumatic cylinders is, so I can't tell you much about tuning
[15:10:26] <floppy123> and then EMC says joint error or so
[15:10:42] <Guest153> cradek - thanks for the heads up - just found the menu entries in axis
[15:10:49] <SWPadnos> yes. while tuning, you should increase FERROR in the ini file
[15:11:09] <floppy123> it is 100 ;)
[15:11:20] <SWPadnos> is the scale set correctly?
[15:11:33] <SWPadnos> INPUT_SCALE should be 200 (from what you said)
[15:11:40] <floppy123> scale from the axis or from the encodeR?
[15:11:47] <SWPadnos> in the ini file
[15:11:48] <floppy123> both are set to 200
[15:12:02] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[15:12:20] <SWPadnos> how far does the cylinder move before you get the following error?
[15:12:29] <floppy123> 10mm
[15:12:33] <floppy123> or so
[15:12:58] <floppy123> how can i say the axis should move 100mm or so?
[15:13:17] <floppy123> in the axis dialog is only a list from 0,1 0,01 and 0,001 mm
[15:13:19] <SWPadnos> one more question - is there a MIN_FERROR setting in your ini file?
[15:13:25] <floppy123> yes it is
[15:13:31] <SWPadnos> what is that set to?
[15:13:36] <floppy123> 0.1
[15:14:00] <SWPadnos> ok. that's the problem. for the moment, comment or remove the MIN_FERROR setting
[15:14:22] <floppy123> ok
[15:14:26] <floppy123> what does this mean?
[15:15:01] <SWPadnos> emc has a variable following error. it starts at MIN_FERROR (at 0 speed) and goes up to FERROR at top speed
[15:15:14] <SWPadnos> if you don't specify MIN_FERROR, then emc uses FERROR all the time
[15:15:56] <floppy123> okay
[15:15:58] <floppy123> thank you
[15:16:02] <floppy123> i go to try
[15:16:07] <SWPadnos> have fun :)
[15:16:17] <floppy123> wait... i come again :)
[15:16:30] <SWPadnos> ok :)
[15:31:50] <fenn> SWPadnos: methylene chloride, that's all i want...
[15:32:09] <fenn> 50ml would be plenty
[15:33:00] <Dallur> Just use desoxyephedrine
[15:33:07] <fenn> uh huh
[15:33:58] <fenn> * fenn stomps off in search of cookies
[15:39:09] <floppy123> ok
[15:39:11] <floppy123> i am back
[15:41:09] <floppy123> http://www.imgbox.de/?img=i21321s80.png
[15:41:22] <floppy123> here... this is my screenshot....
[15:41:28] <floppy123> very strange things :)
[15:42:10] <floppy123> why stay the encoder 1 position on 0?
[15:42:19] <floppy123> the slide has moved
[15:42:51] <SWPadnos> you need to make sure that all the scales are correct in the ini file before tuning
[15:42:58] <SWPadnos> you may have already done this
[15:43:11] <floppy123> why is the green signal so choped?
[15:43:16] <floppy123> yes i have done
[15:44:03] <SWPadnos> this will be hard for OUTPUT_SCALE, since the correlation with PID command may not have any relation to position or velocity - it seems to me it's more like a torque command
[15:45:53] <floppy123> uh
[15:46:09] <floppy123> i have no clue
[15:46:16] <SWPadnos> me either :)
[15:46:41] <floppy123> how can i solve the problem?
[15:47:37] <floppy123> i have the configuration from emc2-etch-servo and have adapted
[15:48:53] <SWPadnos> there may be others that can help you more, but I think you'll need to experiment a bit
[15:49:30] <SWPadnos> you said you can control the valves with HAL now - the next step would be to try to control velocity
[15:50:35] <floppy123> okay
[15:50:39] <floppy123> thank you
[15:50:48] <floppy123> i gonna try
[15:50:49] <SWPadnos> you might want to set up a test environment that isn't EMC - just use a HAL setup
[15:51:00] <floppy123> okay...
[15:51:03] <floppy123> thank you ;)
[15:51:26] <SWPadnos> good luck - come back if you have questions or you find out anything interesting :)
[15:51:43] <floppy123> lol
[15:51:42] <floppy123> okay
[15:51:45] <floppy123> bye
[15:52:23] <cradek> I bet hydraulics are much touchier than motors to tune - they can't possibly be as linear
[15:52:40] <SWPadnos> yeah - I think if he's lucky, it'll be close to torque mode for servos
[15:53:49] <SWPadnos> but valves are likely to be very nonlinear - you get lots of push but no air volume with a small opening, and no more push but more available air (so more sustained velocity) as you open further
[15:53:51] <SWPadnos> I think
[16:39:04] <maddash> I'm baaaaaack!
[16:39:18] <SWPadnos> run awaaaaaaayyyyyy!
[16:40:43] <SWPadnos> run awaaaaaaayyyyyy!
[16:40:54] <lerneaen_hydra> O_o
[16:40:57] <SWPadnos> hey - it worked again
[16:41:03] <lerneaen_hydra> feel the powah!
[16:41:49] <SWPadnos> I got the powah
[16:42:28] <SWPadnos> hmm
[16:42:30] <SWPadnos> run awaaaaaaayyyyyy!
[16:42:42] <maddash> you're enjoying this, aren't you?
[16:42:42] <SWPadnos> damn. I lost the powah
[16:42:47] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:42:53] <archivist> run failed redo from start
[16:42:56] <SWPadnos> connection problems?
[16:43:00] <maddash> I've never felt so...harmonic
[16:43:24] <maddash> SWPadnos: lostirc problem
[16:43:32] <SWPadnos> ok
[16:45:01] <maddash> I had a little accident during last Saturday's tai chi lesson
[16:45:31] <maddash> ...sprained wrist
[16:46:19] <maddash> so it'll probably take a bit longer for the tilted-arcs patch to 'emerge'
[16:48:14] <maddash> unless, of course, the Redundant Two have beaten me to it
[16:59:37] <lerman> maddash: I assume that you do one of the more self defense styles of tai chi.
[18:19:30] <jepler> ooh my new-to-me digital scope came
[18:19:44] <jepler> I like it so far -- I've had a bunch of fun triggering on the AC test waveform :-P
[18:20:53] <robin_sz> hi, im new here
[18:21:13] <cradek> liar
[18:21:54] <robin_sz> I want to build an 8 axis vmc out of cardboard, I'll be building my own stepper drives and using motors from cuckoo-clocks
[18:22:05] <cradek> * cradek kicks robin_sz
[18:22:45] <robin_sz> will emc run on my PDA?
[18:22:49] <cradek> err, hi robin_sz
[18:22:53] <robin_sz> hi :)
[18:22:56] <cradek> what's gotten into you?
[18:23:09] <robin_sz> I was just trying to get into that newbie spirit :)
[18:23:57] <archivist> hehe
[18:24:20] <archivist> must be a wind up
[18:24:52] <robin_sz> $mate has just finished flushing out the Beavermill
[18:25:03] <robin_sz> clearing swarf and shite from the deepest corners
[18:25:26] <LawrenceG> ummmm beaver
[18:25:26] <robin_sz> got over a dustbin full of swarf from what initially looked like a clean machine
[18:27:12] <robin_sz> apparently it had been having "issues" referencing ... there was a few kilos of aluminium behind the covers and around the home switches .. might be related
[18:27:35] <jepler> the vertical sampling resolution in one-shot mode is a little bit disappointing -- if I set it to 500mV/div and a 10x probe, it seems to have adjacent voltage values of 50mV
[18:36:22] <archivist> 8bit?
[18:37:21] <SWPadnos> most digital scopes are 8-bit
[18:37:51] <archivist> I want moooore bits
[18:39:26] <jepler> archivist: not sure, probably
[18:39:31] <jepler> it's not an expensive or modern scope
[18:39:40] <SWPadnos> mine is 8 bit
[18:40:07] <SWPadnos> but it can oversample sometimes to bring the effective bits to 12]
[18:40:11] <SWPadnos> -]
[18:41:00] <archivist> I can do single shot at 12 bit iirc in one analyser a 3562a but not fast
[18:42:06] <SWPadnos> there were some LeCroy scopes way back that were 12 bit, but usually that's done with averaging
[18:42:51] <archivist> Ive never managed to get a LeCroy yet
[18:43:21] <SWPadnos> I think I'd get one now if I were replacing my HPs
[18:47:16] <archivist> I do have a soft spot for HP toys though
[18:48:47] <archivist> wee the download for for the 3562 manual has been fixed and works now
[18:49:54] <fenn> http://www.hanssummers.com/electronics/equipment/tinyscope/index.htm
[18:50:06] <fenn> i thought that was neat
[18:50:16] <SWPadnos> heh - cute
[18:50:21] <archivist> fenn that name is so close to ann summers
[18:50:56] <fenn> heh i was going to make a smartass remark "who is that some porn star" but then it turns out she is a porn star :(
[18:51:27] <fenn> or.. something
[18:52:04] <archivist> hehe yes skimpy underwear sales company
[18:54:33] <SWPadnos> London High Street porn retailer, looks like
[18:55:16] <ds2> robin_sz: depends on your def of a "PDA" ;)
[18:55:39] <ds2> the UMPCs are pretty close in size and are x86 based
[19:25:52] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/po/es_axis.po: fix charset
[19:31:18] <jepler> cradek: that message "50 ohm 192kb" it shows when pressing BLUE / AUTO-SCALE comes from a screen where various communications standards can be selected -- that one is ISDN I-430. Other choices include ANSI T1.102 DS1new 1.5Mb, for instance.
[19:31:32] <jepler> that explains what TELECOM OPTIONS is about
[19:31:33] <cradek> oh I see
[19:31:36] <cradek> neat.
[19:31:58] <JymmmEMC> ?
[19:32:16] <jepler> JymmmEMC: on my new oscilloscope
[19:32:29] <archivist> jepler, it should trigger/decode then
[19:32:29] <JymmmEMC> ah, pic/url?
[19:33:10] <jepler> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220131262558 (same model & seller as I bought)
[19:33:37] <alex_joni> grrr.. HP
[19:34:04] <jepler> it's an 80s piece of equipment but these he is selling were clearly just removed from service -- calibration in '06, recently expired.
[19:34:12] <alex_joni> looks nice though
[19:34:19] <alex_joni> and HP usually has nice products
[19:34:24] <jepler> alex_joni: haven't done anything with it yet
[19:34:36] <alex_joni> jepler: I had troubles with some HP software
[19:34:41] <alex_joni> yesterday..
[19:34:57] <alex_joni> that's why it's not my favourite company atm
[19:35:00] <JymmmEMC> TE SW?
[19:35:20] <alex_joni> te?
[19:35:23] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: TE SW?
[19:35:30] <JymmmEMC> Test Equipment
[19:35:30] <alex_joni> te?
[19:35:36] <alex_joni> no.. printer software
[19:35:42] <JymmmEMC> SMACK
[19:36:13] <cradek> I bet 80s HP test equipment is not at all like 2007 HP printers
[19:37:03] <archivist> no it isnt, its far better
[19:37:26] <archivist> the instrument part was allways the best bit
[19:37:46] <JymmmEMC> and calc too
[19:38:05] <JymmmEMC> or was at least, kind ify now
[19:38:41] <JymmmEMC> their calculators dont even LOOK good these days
[19:38:49] <alex_joni> I liked theyr digital cameras a while ago
[19:39:02] <archivist> the best bit is now agilent
[19:39:47] <jepler> cradek: aha, with the right choices on TIME BASE and DISPLAY, it does do >10 updates per second while triggering.
[19:39:54] <JymmmEMC> Yep. Just ordered a poster from aglient last month
[19:40:23] <archivist> free downloads of instrument manuals
[19:40:24] <cradek> jepler: seems like maybe I just never learned to use it
[19:41:42] <jepler> cradek: ask me again after I've tried to measure the same signals we measured last week on your storage scope
[19:41:58] <jepler> (analog storage scope, that is)
[19:42:01] <cradek> I bet it will work much better for that particular application
[19:42:04] <jepler> yes
[19:42:09] <jepler> I sure hope so
[19:42:52] <cradek> yes the only good thing about that was that you got the data you wanted
[19:43:04] <SWPadnos> are you triggering from the 1kHz calibration signal?
[19:43:10] <SWPadnos> (or near 1 kHz)
[19:44:19] <jepler> SWPadnos: right
[19:44:41] <jepler> I don't have a probe, so I'm stuck with that (and "meat antenna") as my signals until I go home
[19:45:47] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:45:51] <SWPadnos> so I guess it was probeless then
[19:45:56] <SWPadnos> that's a bummer
[19:46:00] <jepler> that was a different scope
[19:46:05] <SWPadnos> oh
[19:46:09] <jepler> this one doesn't have the 16-channel digital capability at all
[19:46:13] <SWPadnos> that's a bummer
[19:46:31] <jepler> ones that did and had the pods were markedly more expensive
[19:46:38] <SWPadnos> yeah, I can imagine
[19:47:51] <JymmmEMC> What do you do with old dead keyboards? Gut out the electronics and had it to the parrots!
[19:47:55] <JymmmEMC> s/had/hand/
[19:48:06] <SWPadnos> I either leave them in a corner of my office for years, or throw them out
[19:48:24] <SWPadnos> so far I'm on option 1 it seems
[19:48:46] <JymmmEMC> Parrot demolition team over here
[19:48:59] <JymmmEMC> no explosives required
[19:49:15] <jepler> we're not all lucky enough to have a fleet^Wflock of birds capable of destroying plastic parts
[19:49:45] <JymmmEMC> Not limited to plastics... You need 30 tons of sawdust.... no problem!
[19:50:23] <SWPadnos> you don't need a CNC, just train the birds
[19:51:12] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Well, I prefer the finished product to be "poop free"
[19:51:30] <SWPadnos> hmmm. use vetical mounting - they can peck at a wall just as well as a desk
[19:51:41] <SWPadnos> vertical
[19:52:00] <JymmmEMC> (they do)
[19:52:48] <JymmmEMC> Dont walk by her with a cardboard box unless you're willing to give it up!
[19:53:14] <jepler> so the P in PID stands for "Parrot"? What are the other terms called?
[19:53:43] <SWPadnos> Parrot Is Dining
[19:53:55] <jepler> aha
[19:54:00] <JymmmEMC> Parrot Is Destroying
[19:54:04] <jepler> hah
[19:54:05] <SWPadnos> with simultaneous Parrot Is Defecating
[19:54:13] <JymmmEMC> there ya go
[19:54:14] <alex_joni> ewww
[19:54:53] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: just think lube =)
[19:55:06] <alex_joni> while defecating?
[19:55:15] <JymmmEMC> lube == defectating
[19:55:50] <JymmmEMC> nah, they poop in one spot only
[19:56:20] <JymmmEMC> cockatiels around another story...
[19:56:31] <JymmmEMC> a/around/are/
[19:58:17] <JymmmEMC> As soon as she figures out how to remove one button, that kybd is a gonner!
[20:04:50] <JymmmEMC> Heh, just checked on her.... She is still on top of the kybd bound and determined on figuring out out to destroy it!
[20:04:59] <SWPadnos> so, here's a funny thing. it's less expensive to buy a cell phone in London than it is to rent a phone for a week from the states
[20:05:22] <SWPadnos> not counting shipping, which you need in the states but not in the UK
[20:06:06] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: you can rent phones in the US ?
[20:06:16] <SWPadnos> you can rent in the US for use in the UK (or elsewhere)
[20:06:22] <JymmmEMC> ah
[20:06:48] <JymmmEMC> I'm looking for unlocked phones now (since I learned about them)
[20:06:52] <SWPadnos> it's like $30/week to rent that way, but only around $16-20 to buy a phone in the UK (with pay-as-you-go airtime)
[20:07:22] <SWPadnos> I think most if not all phones sold outside the US are unlocked
[20:07:36] <SWPadnos> it's just hard to get one that will also work here ;)
[20:07:52] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I don't talk that much, so I just use pre-paid. But I like the idea of being able to toss a sim in any phone and go.
[20:07:56] <archivist> I use pay as you go, and the good providers dont timeout the credit
[20:08:22] <SWPadnos> yep. I got one from mobileworld, they do time out after 60 days though
[20:08:36] <archivist> SWPadnos, Tesco does not
[20:08:39] <JymmmEMC> Well, if you spend $100 with T-mobile they expire in a year.
[20:08:41] <SWPadnos> what are their rates?
[20:08:52] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: most phones over here are locked
[20:09:00] <alex_joni> to local cell providers
[20:09:06] <JymmmEMC> $100 = 1000 minutes + exp in a year
[20:09:09] <SWPadnos> interesting. is there a good amount of competition?
[20:09:11] <archivist> so long since I bought £10
[20:09:13] <alex_joni> of course you can unlock them for something like 10-204
[20:09:17] <alex_joni> 20$
[20:09:19] <SWPadnos> ok
[20:09:38] <SWPadnos> ah - tesco, the grocery chain
[20:09:42] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: If you buy unlocked from ebay, they usually do NOT have a US warranty
[20:09:42] <archivist> yup
[20:09:43] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: we have 5 networks in .ro
[20:10:04] <JymmmEMC> I did find one that has a US warranty
[20:10:11] <SWPadnos> ok - in the UK there seem to be about a hundred, though there are probably only 4 or 5 actual carriers
[20:11:24] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-UNLOCKED-BLUE-RIZR-Z3-ELITE-THE-ONLY-USA-EDITION_W0QQitemZ150146152114QQihZ005QQcategoryZ64355QQcmdZViewItem
[20:12:00] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I have NOT bought from them, but they have 100% feedback
[20:13:07] <JymmmEMC> I REALLY like the feel of the slider
[20:13:42] <SWPadnos> interesting
[20:14:07] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: USB rechargable too
[20:14:19] <SWPadnos> yep - like my RAZR V3c
[20:14:44] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: is that a flip?
[20:14:48] <SWPadnos> yep
[20:15:12] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: always kinda bugged me, the slider is really nice, one handed operation
[20:15:34] <SWPadnos> plus there's that Matrix factor
[20:16:15] <JymmmEMC> http://www.phonegg.com/Motorola/RIZR-Z6/Motorola-RIZR-Z6.jpg
[20:16:24] <SWPadnos> heh - phonegg
[20:19:08] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: get a w880i from Sony-Ericsson
[20:19:18] <JymmmEMC> These things have ALWAYS bugged me on the phones I've had in the past:
[20:19:20] <JymmmEMC> DASHES BETWEEN AREA CODES & PHONE NUMBERS
[20:19:29] <JymmmEMC> CLOCK AND DATE ON THE HOME SCREEN
[20:19:36] <SWPadnos> you're so american
[20:20:16] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Hey, our callerid at work has no dashes, it's a PITA to figure out what country their calling from as the display sucks
[20:20:51] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: why?
[20:21:29] <SWPadnos> the dashes are different in different countries - in fact, in large parts of Europe, phone numbers have different numbers of digits
[20:21:50] <SWPadnos> (ie, I have a friend with a phone and fax at the same location, and the fax has one more digit)
[20:22:07] <JymmmEMC> cool
[20:22:28] <JymmmEMC> I like that idea actually
[20:22:44] <JymmmEMC> direct dial an extension sorta thing
[20:23:04] <SWPadnos> archivist, do you know the airtime rates for tesco when calling from the UK to the USA?
[20:23:17] <archivist> no
[20:23:20] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, I don't think that's what it is, but that is a cool idea
[20:24:08] <SWPadnos> archivist, ok. that was what I chose mobileworld - UK->US calls are 5p, all incoming is free, UK->UK (land or mobile) is 15p
[20:24:40] <SWPadnos> something like 5 or 10p per txt outbound, I think inbound were free (could be wrong on that)
[20:24:42] <archivist> SWPadnos, I dont use the phone enough to worry about the prices (and never abroad)
[20:24:49] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Yeah, if your in the garage or something you could just dial '3' to reach the kitchen or whatever
[20:24:58] <SWPadnos> heh - I'm always abroad when I'm in the UK :)
[20:25:15] <JymmmEMC> s/aborad/a broad/
[20:25:31] <archivist> get me a broad
[20:25:45] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC hands archivist SWPadnos
[20:25:57] <SWPadnos> archivist, where are you located?
[20:26:04] <archivist> midlands
[20:26:21] <SWPadnos> ok - a bit north and west of London then?
[20:26:29] <archivist> 120 miles
[20:26:30] <SWPadnos> (a bit = 50-100 miles, I guess)
[20:26:30] <SWPadnos> heh - ok
[20:27:50] <archivist> holiday or work
[20:27:56] <SWPadnos> holiday
[20:28:09] <SWPadnos> with some work thrown in for bad measure
[20:28:17] <archivist> hehe
[20:28:52] <SWPadnos> cool phone:
http://www.phonegg.com/Seamless/S-XGen/Seamless-S-XGen.html
[20:30:10] <awallin> latest and greatest CAM algorithm:
http://imagebin.org/9671 needs just slightly more work :)
[20:30:22] <JymmmEMC> looks flimpsy
[20:31:32] <archivist> awallin, seems to be reaching for the floor /me worries about the milling macine
[20:31:35] <SWPadnos> heh - looks like a lot of Z for that model ;)
[20:32:12] <jepler> maybe there's a bug or two left
[20:32:59] <awallin> yeah! it does work for two perfectly level triangles though.
[20:33:02] <JymmmEMC> Heh, the title... broken CAM algorithm...
[20:33:18] <awallin> so 3D surfacing, but only if your surfaces are along the XY plane :)
[20:40:52] <JymmmEMC> Yeah, I want to buy from these guys, See: Canada Shipping.
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Black-Motorola-Z3-RIZR-CELL-PHONE-UNLOCKED-GSM-CD-C_W0QQitemZ230155313234QQihZ013QQcategoryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[20:41:58] <JymmmEMC> not the pricing, the policy
[20:43:05] <SWPadnos> if only we had GSM service here
[20:43:12] <SWPadnos> (and in 75% of the rest of the country)
[20:43:22] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: none in VA ?
[20:43:30] <SWPadnos> dunno about there, I'm in VT
[20:43:37] <JymmmEMC> ok VT
[20:43:40] <SWPadnos> no
[20:43:50] <JymmmEMC> that bites
[20:43:59] <SWPadnos> somewhat
[20:44:14] <SWPadnos> you still enede analog in a lot of places here
[20:44:18] <SWPadnos> need
[20:44:22] <JymmmEMC> ah
[20:44:46] <JymmmEMC> wait a sec, isn't the 800 analog?
[20:44:57] <SWPadnos> all those bands are GSM
[20:45:01] <SWPadnos> they say so :)
[20:45:21] <JymmmEMC> ah CDMA, gotcha
[20:45:21] <SWPadnos> analog does use 800-something also
[20:45:45] <SWPadnos> we actually have EVDO here, but it's Verizon-only
[20:46:14] <SWPadnos> I have Verizon, which means it's harder for me to get a phone that will work both here and abroad
[20:46:33] <JymmmEMC> http://www.t-mobile.com/coverage/
[20:47:32] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: It says it has coverage, and there is no roaming on Tmobile
[20:48:09] <SWPadnos> they're using the Verizon, Cingular, or Unicel lines - I'm pretty sure they don't have GSM coverage here
[20:48:58] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Right, but there is no fees for roaming on tmobile
[20:49:10] <SWPadnos> but you still need a phone that can connect to this network
[20:49:37] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: You use their network to connect to tmobile
[20:49:41] <SWPadnos> hmmm. zooming out a lot, it does look like they may have service here
[20:50:24] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: On GSM, they allow you to use other carriers towers
[20:50:38] <SWPadnos> that only helps if the other towers support GSM ...
[20:50:46] <SWPadnos> if you have a GSM-only phone
[20:51:15] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: hit walmart, buy a $40 prepaid phone and return it if it doesn't work
[20:51:26] <JymmmEMC> http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/phones/prepaid.aspx
[20:51:28] <SWPadnos> I have a phone that works great here :)
[20:51:39] <SWPadnos> it's the UK I'd have trouble in
[20:51:50] <SWPadnos> though I can get a CrackBerry that works here and there
[20:52:01] <ds2> get a quad band phone
[20:52:03] <ds2> and a local sim
[20:52:30] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I bet if you asked around, you would find if GSM was available
[20:54:50] <archivist> awallin, is that some standard curve fitting algorithm that your using
[20:58:43] <awallin> archivist: it's called (informally) "drop-cutter"
[20:59:02] <awallin> you drop down the cutter along the z-axis until it touches a triangulated model
[21:00:25] <archivist> I did a curve fit some years ago using standard calcs from books and found they broke for certain curve situations
[21:01:00] <archivist> I ended up using more than one fit depending on where I was
[21:01:29] <awallin> in principle this should be pretty robust. there's just some bug in the code...
[21:01:29] <archivist> I was getting graphs not to disimilar
[21:02:30] <archivist> was running out of float accuracy iirc
[21:03:40] <awallin> yeah, roundoff errors are not something I look forward to working with
[21:05:44] <archivist> or pentium math bugs
[21:06:52] <archivist> it would be interesting to run the same on a different architecture to check for that
[21:07:34] <awallin> :)
[21:07:46] <awallin> * awallin needs to sleep now...
[21:08:23] <alex_joni> awallin: what for?
[21:09:07] <awallin> yeah, after all I did some sleeping yesterday - that should be enough
[21:09:59] <alex_joni> well.. that counts as last month
[21:10:25] <alex_joni> awallin: you do some astro photography.. right?
[21:17:43] <alex_joni> http://eneas.juve.ro/~juve/download5%20871.jpg
[21:17:49] <alex_joni> * alex_joni does the same thing
[21:17:51] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:24:15] <floppy12> hello
[21:24:16] <floppy12> ;)
[21:38:37] <mihk> user=anon@cvs.linuxcnc.org PASS= ???? (help please)
[21:42:16] <mihk> I'm trying to get 2.1.6 stable from cvs BUT Cervisia is asking for a password, which is ???? (please advise)
[21:43:23] <JymmmEMC> try nothign for the pw
[21:44:10] <JymmmEMC> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/
[21:44:55] <archivist> or your emaill addy
[21:45:40] <mihk> Host key verification failed. and checkout aborted
[21:48:42] <jepler> mihk: use "anon" as the login name. no password should be ncessary
[21:49:09] <jepler> the first time you check out source, you should be asked to accept a new host identification; after that it should never change.
[21:49:41] <mihk> I'm trying in console now. Cervisia didn't worked.
[21:49:46] <jepler> I don't know anything about cervisia
[21:50:10] <mihk> it is for lazy people.
[21:51:06] <jepler> I trust these instructions together with the commandline cvs client:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Getting_the_source_with_CVS
[21:51:29] <jepler> if cervisia has an option to use an existing CVS check-out, it's possible that after you check out once from the commandline you can try using it again
[21:51:43] <mihk> it works now
[21:51:47] <mihk> thaks you
[21:51:59] <mihk> grrr excuse my lang.
[21:54:58] <toast__> ff
[21:58:24] <jepler> mihk: I installed cervisia and I got a similar experience to yours. After I made sure I had the public key for the CVS server (doing a commandline checkout is one way, doing "ssh anon@cvs.linuxcnc.org" is another)
[21:58:30] <jepler> darn, I missed him
[22:04:02] <jepler> that makes two GUI programs reported in the last week that throw fits over ssh-over-cvs
[22:04:38] <SWPadnos> don't forget tortoise
[22:04:45] <SWPadnos> well, you can forget it if you like
[22:04:55] <toast__> forgetting is an option!
[22:05:00] <toast__> non-ideal, but an option!
[22:33:12] <ds2> see, GUI programs are evil.
[22:33:29] <ds2> and as such, you really need to write a non GUI UI for EMC to make it less evil ;)
[22:34:49] <SWPadnos> it's done: halcmd
[22:34:51] <JymmmEMC> ds2: keystick
[22:36:24] <JymmmEMC> jepler: is clear text anon (read-only) such a big deal?
[22:37:19] <jepler> JymmmEMC: using ssh for everyone means that non-registered developers can also trust that they've contacted the "real" cvs.linuxcnc.org, among other advantages
[22:38:05] <JymmmEMC> jepler: Yeah, ok. I can see that. I guess also if they covert to RW later on, their initial DL would also be "secure" as well.
[22:38:45] <SWPadnos> they'd have to re-check out or do some sed magic on CVS/Root (or some other CVS/ file)
[22:39:02] <JymmmEMC> is the key posted on the website somewhere too?
[22:39:22] <JymmmEMC> or at least the key sig
[22:39:25] <SWPadnos> the user name is stored in the CVS/ dir, and would be anon from an anonymous checkout
[22:40:18] <JymmmEMC> I few a couple of folks that can do MITM in under 4 minutes if the key isn't already obtained =)
[22:40:50] <SWPadnos> MITM?
[22:40:56] <JymmmEMC> Man in the middle attacks
[22:40:58] <SWPadnos> man int he middle
[22:41:03] <SWPadnos> right
[22:41:51] <JymmmEMC> especially SSH
[22:43:35] <JymmmEMC> Is this on the wbesite somewhere? DSA key fingerprint is 5b:b7:3d:04:9d:dd:86:ad:dc:c6:78:81:d4:3d:05:8e.
[22:44:12] <SWPadnos> err - ssh anon@cvs.linuxcnc.org ...
[22:44:31] <JymmmEMC> ~$ ssh cvs.linuxcnc.org
[22:44:31] <JymmmEMC> The authenticity of host 'cvs.linuxcnc.org (206.222.212.221)' can't be established.
[22:44:31] <JymmmEMC> DSA key fingerprint is 5b:b7:3d:04:9d:dd:86:ad:dc:c6:78:81:d4:3d:05:8e.
[22:44:31] <JymmmEMC> Are you sure you want to continue connecting (yes/no)?
[22:45:02] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I'm not sure where to find out if that's the correct fingerprint
[22:45:16] <jepler> we should have printed it on the cheatsheets :-P
[22:45:25] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:45:30] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. If it's on the wbesite, it MIGHT help
[22:45:35] <SWPadnos> I still have a bunch - maybe I should magic marker it in there
[22:45:49] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: label maker
[22:46:01] <SWPadnos> too easy
[22:46:01] <SWPadnos> and too uniform
[22:46:04] <JymmmEMC> lol
[22:46:08] <JymmmEMC> KISS
[22:46:57] <JymmmEMC> jepler: IS that the right sig or did I get hax0red already?
[22:46:57] <SWPadnos> cool:
http://www.gibbstech.co.uk/mediacentre/quadski.php
[22:47:28] <JymmmEMC> awesome!
[22:48:21] <toast__> you could always switch to using kerberos v
[22:49:27] <JymmmEMC> add some lights and make it street legal =)
[22:50:00] <JymmmEMC> err water-proof lights
[22:50:29] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:58:27] <jepler> JymmmEMC: if your friends are working to MITM you, nothing i can say on IRC could convince you that you have the right DSA fingerprint
[22:59:22] <SWPadnos> s/could/should/
[22:59:25] <jepler> however, the fingerprint I saw on my screen is the correct one
[23:27:25] <JymmmEMC> jepler: No, I just KNOW those that are "telented", I know where they live, so if they wanted to try something....
[23:27:33] <JymmmEMC> talneted
[23:27:38] <JymmmEMC> talented
[23:28:03] <JymmmEMC> I nark em off to their moms/wives/gf's
[23:28:32] <JymmmEMC> Nuttin worse than getting scroned by the female in your life =)
[23:31:36] <JymmmEMC> I'm interested in making a pc-free step/dir generator with speed/feed rates. But I was wondering how difficult it would be to add something like simple shapes to it? Say you enter in a diameter for a circle, and then hit start. Complex? not enough room/speed in a uC? something else?
[23:32:46] <SWPadnos> depends on the uC
[23:32:56] <JymmmEMC> Atmel?
[23:33:37] <SWPadnos> it depends. Atmel also makes 32-bit ARM microcontrollers
[23:33:39] <SWPadnos> and the AVR32
[23:33:59] <JymmmEMC> Ok, no SMT's. That should narrow it down =)
[23:34:08] <SWPadnos> no
[23:34:39] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Ok, what would you use/suggest?
[23:34:48] <SWPadnos> an SMT part :)
[23:35:16] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Ok, I'll ship it to you for attachment =)
[23:35:55] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: (SMt seriously?)
[23:36:56] <SWPadnos> actually, it's probably not the microcontroller that will be the problem. hold on a sec
[23:38:09] <JymmmEMC> I want enough I/O for 4axis, an 2x16 or better LCD, switches, keypad (?), a pot or two, and a few for any triggers (limit switches).
[23:38:37] <SWPadnos> generating a constant velocity circle with a microcontroller isn't simple, or it isn't fast
[23:38:52] <JymmmEMC> why not fast?
[23:39:02] <SWPadnos> floating point
[23:39:17] <JymmmEMC> ah, no biggy
[23:39:15] <SWPadnos> the easiest thing to do is just use sin/cos to calculate points
[23:39:44] <JymmmEMC> which most uC don't have fp
[23:39:46] <SWPadnos> but that's slow as hell - 8-bit microcontrollers are rated in dozens or hundreds of FLOPS if you're lucky
[23:39:55] <SWPadnos> no microcontroller that I know of has FP
[23:40:02] <JymmmEMC> k
[23:40:19] <JymmmEMC> well how about 10IPM circle?
[23:40:20] <SWPadnos> there's some fixed point, and you can do fixed point math as though it were integer, for the most part
[23:40:39] <JymmmEMC> would 10IPM be pushing the limit?
[23:40:59] <SWPadnos> it makes no difference how fast you want it to go
[23:41:07] <SWPadnos> the position update rate is the important thing
[23:41:54] <JymmmEMC> ok, scratch the simple shapes. What about a step/dir gen with speed control?
[23:41:59] <SWPadnos> you'd just add less to theta every loop if the speed is lower ...
[23:42:08] <SWPadnos> lines are OK, even in 3D/4D
[23:42:18] <JymmmEMC> diagnal?
[23:42:25] <SWPadnos> http://www.cncgear.com/MPG/
[23:43:17] <SWPadnos> that has no analog, two channels of step generation, an encoder input for speed control, and start/stop/fwd/reverse switch inputs
[23:43:19] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: your creation?
[23:43:21] <SWPadnos> yep
[23:43:34] <JymmmEMC> variable speed?
[23:43:39] <SWPadnos> there's a serial port, and an expansion header for another encoder/display
[23:43:41] <SWPadnos> yes
[23:44:06] <SWPadnos> you can set ranges with two jumpers (15k, 25k, 35k, 45k) and the speed is set in 1% increments with the encoder knob
[23:44:46] <SWPadnos> runs off 9-36V, and the software can probably be changed to directly drive a single unipolar 4-phase stepper
[23:44:54] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: how much?
[23:44:56] <SWPadnos> up to 1.5A or so per phase
[23:45:02] <JymmmEMC> oh, it's a driver too?
[23:45:17] <SWPadnos> sort of a driver - unipolar, transistor drive
[23:45:22] <JymmmEMC> ah
[23:45:47] <SWPadnos> 4 outputs, all connected to PWM hardware, so they run without software latency problems
[23:45:55] <SWPadnos> $200 each, with encoder
[23:46:11] <SWPadnos> (the encoder is $20 or so by itself)
[23:46:14] <JymmmEMC> ah, didn't realize it has encoder inputs
[23:46:27] <SWPadnos> not for motor feedback, for a user knob
[23:46:49] <JymmmEMC> oh DRO
[23:46:52] <SWPadnos> no
[23:47:08] <JymmmEMC> knob on box?
[23:47:17] <SWPadnos> 1 sec
[23:47:23] <JymmmEMC> times up
[23:47:57] <SWPadnos> http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=GH6102-ND
[23:48:06] <SWPadnos> that's the speed setting knob
[23:48:33] <SWPadnos> the display shows the current speed setting, in percent
[23:48:45] <JymmmEMC> ah instead of using a pot
[23:48:47] <SWPadnos> yes
[23:49:18] <JymmmEMC> cool
[23:49:17] <SWPadnos> this was intended to serve as a power feed on a mill, so the speed setting needs to be accurate - analog can drift around a bit
[23:49:32] <SWPadnos> basically a step between manual power feed and CNC with geckos
[23:50:02] <JymmmEMC> I gotcha. I was thinking dialing in a speed on the LCD
[23:50:31] <SWPadnos> right - this just has an LED for that :)
[23:51:08] <JymmmEMC> If it wasn't for blind old farts that need 4" readout, a 2x16 LCD would work great
[23:51:15] <SWPadnos> heh
[23:51:36] <SWPadnos> I think I offered LCD on this, but the customer specifically wanted something that could be seen from more than 2 feet away
[23:51:50] <JymmmEMC> heh, like I said...
[23:52:04] <SWPadnos> well, it's more of a lighting thing than size ...
[23:52:23] <JymmmEMC> Do you think a uC could do 50K microstepping?
[23:52:33] <SWPadnos> yes
[23:52:47] <SWPadnos> but not in software, if it's also got to talk to something
[23:52:57] <SWPadnos> at least, not with perfect pulse generation
[23:53:12] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: My drives do 50K, just been curious about it
[23:53:41] <SWPadnos> well, let me rephrase that - if there are no other interrupts enabled, a uC could do 50k steps/sec in software reliably
[23:54:07] <JymmmEMC> software?
[23:54:15] <JymmmEMC> I'm tlaking a pc-free thing here
[23:54:27] <SWPadnos> here's something you might like:
http://www.mesanet.com/parallelcardinfo.html
[23:54:35] <SWPadnos> the 7i43
[23:54:48] <SWPadnos> there's software in a microcontroller, too
[23:55:14] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Ah, I also consider that FW (even if the term isn't correct)
[23:55:17] <SWPadnos> heh
[23:55:21] <JymmmEMC> ambigunity
[23:56:12] <JymmmEMC> Well shit... why is everyone going for the 5120 instead of the 7i43?
[23:56:26] <SWPadnos> I think it would be relatively easy to make something that can do what you want, but I'm not sure the resulting cost would be less than a cheap PC
[23:56:39] <SWPadnos> because the 7i43 was just introduced, and it's not available yet
[23:56:50] <JymmmEMC> ah
[23:56:52] <SWPadnos> and it's connected via the parallel port
[23:56:55] <SWPadnos> (or USB)
[23:57:02] <JymmmEMC> Any plans on emc doing USB?
[23:57:22] <SWPadnos> there are discussions, but USB doesn't fit into the whole feedback thing very well
[23:57:44] <JymmmEMC> why not? 480MB/s
[23:57:53] <SWPadnos> it's not throughput, it's latency
[23:58:15] <JymmmEMC> on the usb bus?
[23:58:19] <SWPadnos> yes
[23:58:30] <SWPadnos> USB has a 1KHz cycle rate - that's it
[23:58:30] <JymmmEMC> fscking USB and it's damn polling
[23:58:50] <SWPadnos> USB2 allows for 8 microframes inside each 1ms frame, but I'm not sure how those are arranged
[23:59:05] <SWPadnos> so you end up with 1-2 ms latency from feedback to new command
[23:59:10] <SWPadnos> = bad shit
[23:59:49] <SWPadnos> well, I've got to get back to work. see you
[23:59:50] <JymmmEMC> what about serial?
