#emc | Logs for 2007-07-07

[01:08:21] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_servo.comp: documentation improvements
[02:02:02] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_servo.comp: writing a 1 to the EPP error register is required on some systems to reset the error condition. Otherwise, the error bit in the register reads 1 until reboot.
[02:08:03] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_servo.comp: use the same sequence of I/O to reset the EPP error register as the linux parport_pc driver
[02:23:08] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07nineaxis * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_convert.cc: fix uvw G92
[02:25:49] <cradek> jeez
[02:26:02] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07nineaxis * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_convert.cc: fix more uvw units things
[03:02:19] <klickrr> i've recently upgraded from an old linux emc distrubution, BDI something, emc version 1, i installed version 2 with the latest BDI and EMCMOT=freqmod in my old config, but I can't seem to find that anywhere in the new documentation, or sample configs. I suppose I could set it and try to see if it still works, but it seems like stuff has changed and I can't find complete documetnation, help?
[03:02:53] <jmkasunich> EMC2 is significantly different than emc1
[03:03:00] <jmkasunich> there are lots of docs though
[03:03:25] <jmkasunich> start here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/5/5/lang,en/
[03:03:52] <jmkasunich> note that to use EMC2 with the BDI, you will have to compile it
[03:04:22] <jmkasunich> we recommend using Ubuntu 6.06 LTS, we have binary packages that make installing EMC2 a snap on that distro
[03:04:56] <klickrr> well I did the EMC 2.0 Ubuntu 6.06 cd thing
[03:05:00] <klickrr> i downloaded and installed it
[03:05:03] <klickrr> it has axis on it
[03:05:09] <jmkasunich> ok
[03:05:10] <klickrr> i ran the interface, it loaded kernel modules
[03:05:13] <klickrr> i assume that it's all there..
[03:05:25] <jmkasunich> yep
[03:06:25] <klickrr> but i'm not crazy in determing that my old config file won't work, correct?
[03:06:40] <jmkasunich> there are significant changes
[03:06:52] <jmkasunich> was your old machine a stepper one?
[03:08:08] <jmkasunich> your old config I mean - the machine still is whatever it is
[03:08:20] <klickrr> yes
[03:08:22] <klickrr> gecko drives
[03:08:26] <jmkasunich> ok
[03:08:32] <klickrr> well, the are servos, but dir/step driven
[03:08:48] <jmkasunich> I suggest you start with one of the new stepper samples
[03:08:49] <klickrr> i loaded in the stepper_inch.ini
[03:08:52] <jmkasunich> good
[03:09:08] <klickrr> granted, it didn't seem to do anything... not sure if my default it should, still going through the whole thing
[03:09:29] <jmkasunich> did you tell it to make a copy of the sample in your home directory?
[03:09:35] <klickrr> yea, it did that
[03:09:46] <klickrr> so when i start now it shows just the steppers thing
[03:09:53] <klickrr> and I hit stepper_inch again
[03:09:58] <klickrr> i'm looking at them directly now
[03:10:10] <jmkasunich> I'd open the copy, and open your old config, in side-by-side editor windows, and just read thru
[03:10:25] <jmkasunich> you'll see several places where its obvious what you need to copy over from your old config
[03:10:31] <jmkasunich> like axis scaling, etc
[03:10:41] <klickrr> yea, input_scale has been the only thing so far
[03:10:44] <klickrr> i reset some acceleration stuff..
[03:11:12] <jmkasunich> dunno if you prefer the older GUIs (tkemc, mini), or if you want to use axis
[03:11:24] <klickrr> but those default configs should be like the old freqmod? Cause I turned it on and it didn't move the machine at all, and obviously Axis was showing movement
[03:11:29] <jmkasunich> that is selected in the [DISPLAY] section of the ini file
[03:11:37] <klickrr> yea, i was gonna give axis a shot
[03:12:26] <jmkasunich> the old freqmod is gone, but stepper_inch (or stepper_mm) should work very much like it
[03:13:22] <klickrr> that's why i'm concerned, it doesn't appear to be acting like it eheh.. the machine isn't moving at all... hmmm
[03:13:24] <jmkasunich> if your parallel port is at 0x0378, I would expect stepper_inch to just plain work
[03:13:35] <klickrr> this is a different computer
[03:13:51] <klickrr> granted the parralel port is enabled in the bios and all that
[03:14:12] <jmkasunich> but you've plugged the cable that worked on the old puter into the new one's parport, and nothing's happening?
[03:14:42] <klickrr> yep
[03:14:55] <jmkasunich> is it a PCI parport? those are often at strange addresses
[03:15:01] <klickrr> i upgraded the computer, the old one if a piece of crap
[03:15:16] <klickrr> the old one that worked was much slower, so i figured an upgrade would help
[03:15:25] <klickrr> the parallel port is built into the motherboard
[03:15:41] <jmkasunich> are you starting EMC from an icon, or from a shell/terminal?
[03:15:47] <klickrr> icon
[03:16:09] <jmkasunich> try a shell - it will work (or not work) the same, but you can see any messages it prints
[03:16:16] <klickrr> yea, that's true
[03:16:20] <jmkasunich> just run "emc"
[03:16:48] <klickrr> [ 1060.476407] spurious 8259A interrupt: IRQ7.
[03:17:00] <klickrr> that was in dmesg, not sure what that was from
[03:17:00] <klickrr> long time ago
[03:17:08] <klickrr> what's irq7, i forget
[03:17:26] <jmkasunich> back in the day it was parport, but these days it could be anything
[03:17:56] <klickrr> is that an issue? hehe
[03:18:12] <jmkasunich> shouldn't be, EMC2 doesn't use the parport interrupt
[03:18:45] <jmkasunich> are you talking to me from the EMC computer?
[03:19:17] <klickrr> well, no i'm not, but i'm ssh'd into it, reading stuff from there
[03:19:18] <klickrr> it's int he basement in my shop
[03:19:27] <jmkasunich> ok, that works
[03:19:31] <klickrr> i was thinking of installing xchat on there and going down there
[03:19:52] <klickrr> installing it hehe
[03:20:11] <klickrr> i'll bb
[03:20:14] <jmkasunich> couple clicks with synaptic, if it isn't installed by default
[03:20:22] <klickrr> apt-get install xchat worked
[03:20:26] <klickrr> i'm gonna go down there
[03:20:44] <cradek> wonder if there's an enable line or something
[03:24:58] <jmkasunich> maybe
[03:25:28] <jmkasunich> I was about to go to sleep...
[03:25:40] <cradek> me too (early)
[03:26:47] <cradek> he must have had trouble.
[03:27:06] <jmkasunich> or its a long way downstairs
[03:34:14] <klickrr> well this is me upstairs still, i rebooted and the wirless wouldn't come back up
[03:34:17] <klickrr> anyway
[03:34:19] <klickrr> it works
[03:34:26] <jmkasunich> works is good
[03:34:48] <klickrr> i introduced a new long parallel port cable that i decided i wanted to factor out of the equation.. so i hooked it up directly like it used to be, and it worked
[03:34:57] <klickrr> so this parallel port cable i bought is worthless
[03:35:02] <cradek> good troubleshooting
[03:35:11] <klickrr> i need the extension since the computer is farther away
[03:35:39] <klickrr> i temporarily held it upside down under the workbench to test this, while at the same time using the keyboard/mouse ontop of the workbench, it was quite fun :)
[03:36:20] <klickrr> so stepper_inch.ini works great for me
[03:36:22] <jmkasunich> glad you got it working
[03:36:30] <klickrr> yes, thanks fory our help jmkasunich
[03:36:33] <jmkasunich> (cause its getting to be bedtime here)
[03:36:39] <klickrr> eheh
[03:36:43] <klickrr> yes, me too
[03:36:48] <jmkasunich> I didn't do much, but you're welcome
[03:36:59] <klickrr> i got my trustly voltmeter thing here, gonna check this cable
[03:37:17] <klickrr> which pins are generally used, hmm, i can look in the doc
[03:37:39] <jmkasunich> step and dir are on 2 thru 7 for a 3 axis machine
[03:38:38] <cradek> klickrr: some recent advice about wireless problems: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/2223
[03:39:21] <jmkasunich> goodnight guys
[03:39:23] <cradek> goodnight
[03:39:35] <klickrr> ahhahaha, this parallel port cable has every pin reversed, 1 goes to 25, 2 to 24, 3 to 23, etc... i did notice that it said "file transfer cable" but i was just estatic that the store actually had a parallel port cable that I bought it eheh
[03:39:37] <klickrr> night
[03:39:49] <cradek> yikes, glad it didn't hurt anything
[03:40:04] <klickrr> yea, well that would mean the right ports connected to nothing
[03:40:09] <klickrr> er pins
[03:40:53] <cradek> when you get your networking back, be sure to let the update manager run - there is probably an emc2 update to install
[03:41:34] <klickrr> i had the wireless working, it seems kinda spuradic, but also the wireless router is 2 floors up, around a concrete wall in the basement... kinda far away
[03:41:39] <klickrr> i'm not sure it's in the best place basically eheh
[03:41:42] <cradek> ah
[03:41:52] <cradek> wireless is never really "best"
[03:42:11] <klickrr> yea, well, it truely is the worst spot possible in the house to put it
[03:42:23] <klickrr> i clearly didn't think the wireless part when i built the shop
[03:42:32] <klickrr> and putting the computer in the farthest corner...
[03:42:39] <cradek> * cradek loans klickrr some cat5 cable
[03:42:49] <klickrr> ehhe, yea, i might do that
[03:42:57] <klickrr> but wireless is just easy sometimes eheh :)
[03:43:09] <klickrr> except this time
[03:43:48] <klickrr> so you run a cnc machine with linux emc?
[03:44:02] <cradek> a couple
[03:44:09] <tomp2> transfer cable pinout db25 to db25 http://www.lammertbies.nl/comm/cable/parallel.html, be careful
[03:44:15] <klickrr> you make them yourself? or professional ones?
[03:44:17] <cradek> I have a mill and a lathe
[03:44:32] <cradek> they're both a combination of homemade and bought
[03:44:36] <klickrr> ya
[03:44:41] <cradek> the lathe is a full retrofit of a manual machine
[03:44:48] <klickrr> so what software do you generally use for g-code generation?
[03:44:51] <cradek> the mill was originally cnc (tabletop) but was crap
[03:44:57] <klickrr> ya
[03:45:09] <klickrr> i'd like to play with a lathe, be fun
[03:45:19] <cradek> I hand write a lot, or generate it with simple programs (python etc)
[03:45:28] <klickrr> i've thought about adding an extra axis to mine to kinda have that
[03:45:33] <cradek> for more complex stuff (but still 2.5D) I use REALIZE in Autocad
[03:45:34] <klickrr> ya
[03:45:41] <klickrr> realize, haven't heard of that
[03:45:46] <cradek> that's about as complex as I get
[03:45:55] <klickrr> i use qcad and then wrote some software to do conversion
[03:46:06] <cradek> it generates gcode directly from tool paths drawn in autocacd
[03:46:08] <klickrr> i only run linux.. so qcad is about all i have for cad eheh
[03:46:23] <klickrr> yea
[03:46:35] <cradek> I also don't have windows - I use autocad R12 for dos (using FreeDOS in qemu)
[03:46:47] <cradek> autocad ca. 1994!
[03:46:54] <klickrr> ahh, wow that is quite old eheh
[03:47:06] <cradek> yeah, I'll probably use it until I die
[03:47:19] <klickrr> you every try qcad? i know it's not very powerful, but i do pretty simple stuff with mine
[03:47:37] <cradek> I have tried it - I struggled to do even simple things
[03:48:11] <klickrr> that was one reason to do the upgrade to emc2 and a new puter, to have a powerful enough machine to do qcad right down there in the shop if i need to, it'll be nice once i get it all up and running. I used to do it up here, transfer it wirelessly then run downstairs ehhe
[03:48:21] <klickrr> yea, it's not the best cad, but i'm used to it
[03:48:27] <cradek> that will be much nicer I bet.
[03:48:40] <cradek> what did you write for qcad to generate gcode?
[03:48:49] <cradek> and, is it gpl? seems a lot of people might like to use that
[03:49:07] <klickrr> well i used it's qcad dxf library, and then it uses SDL for graphical representation
[03:49:28] <klickrr> it imports all the pieces, figures out all the continous lines, then comes up with toolpaths....
[03:49:28] <cradek> interesting
[03:49:46] <cradek> ah, realize makes you draw polylines - it doesn't do any merging
[03:49:53] <klickrr> i do toolpath offseting in the code, cause i couldn't figure out how to do it with gcode heeh
[03:50:06] <cradek> how can you do different depths? or is qcad 3d?
[03:50:16] <klickrr> well, i do 2.5D
[03:50:21] <klickrr> i've rigged it for things like that
[03:50:24] <cradek> right I see
[03:50:33] <klickrr> i name layers "depth 0.25" and it'll cut to 0.25 depth
[03:50:40] <cradek> now that you're using emc2 you might find that tool radius comp works right :-)
[03:50:45] <klickrr> i was working on "pocketing" i think they call it, but never finished it
[03:50:55] <cradek> interesting
[03:51:11] <klickrr> i'm gonna start working on a new program, with a sequencing part to the gui
[03:51:16] <klickrr> where i can have a bit more control
[03:51:48] <cradek> a couple people on the emc-users list have talked about something like that - maybe you can even find some collaboration if you want
[03:51:49] <klickrr> i also wrote a 3d thing, different program, that just does 3d dxf stuff, makes a depth map basically and runs it
[03:52:16] <klickrr> yea, i'm on cnczone.com a lot, people on there always talk about it, but nobody is really doing anything
[03:52:25] <cradek> you might like image-to-gcode, which takes a depth map in image format and generates (pretty decent) tool paths over it
[03:52:34] <klickrr> opencam or somethign exists, but it's written in gambas (visual basic clone i believe) and it doesn't even work with dxf files
[03:52:43] <klickrr> yea, i wrote one of those as well
[03:52:51] <klickrr> just have to convert it to greyscale first
[03:52:58] <klickrr> i used gimp to make stuff like that
[03:53:00] <cradek> (image-to-gcode is in the emc2 distrib)
[03:53:09] <klickrr> really, there's a linux versioN?
[03:53:34] <cradek> run the sim/axis configuration and load the png file directly
[03:53:36] <klickrr> well i can't wirelessly connect to my emc box to check, but i'll look for that
[03:53:39] <klickrr> ahh
[03:53:49] <cradek> image-to-gcode is an input filter for AXIS
[03:54:00] <klickrr> yea, that's nice
[03:54:06] <klickrr> might have to play with that tommorow
[03:54:11] <cradek> AXIS invokes it to "filter" the image into gcode - it just spews the gcode to its stdout
[03:54:24] <klickrr> yea
[03:54:32] <cradek> yeah the input filters are powerful. I bet you'll be able to set up some of your stuff that way
[03:56:00] <klickrr> the one main reason i loaded emc2 also was for the G64 P0.01 (i think, it's continous mode with a maximum error setting) cause i always had to set acceleration faster then i wanted to get movements fast enough, can't wait to test out that new setting though
[03:56:26] <klickrr> or G61, i never rememeber which one is which
[03:56:25] <cradek> that's right, tolerance mode
[03:56:40] <cradek> G64 P = continuous mode with tolerance
[03:57:12] <cradek> for gcode with lots of short things that are nearly parallel, it helps a lot
[03:57:25] <cradek> (seems that lots of naive cam output is like that)
[03:57:33] <klickrr> ya, do other machines support that kind of thing? or is that emc specific
[03:57:42] <cradek> I'm not sure
[03:58:39] <klickrr> yea, i guess i just like the smooth acceleration, but to get it worth a damn with continous mode, i had to set acceleration real high so it woudl follow the path correctly, so i'm excited to see that P thing work
[03:59:09] <cradek> oh your emc1 would go way off the path when you had low accel? I remember that
[03:59:18] <klickrr> so what do you make with your machines?
[03:59:21] <klickrr> yea, exactly
[03:59:24] <cradek> yeah emc2 will slow down when it has to.
[03:59:53] <klickrr> unless you were G61 (exact, i think) which was horrible with my 3d stuff, cause i used straight lines, it was going like 1 inch per hour.. hehehe
[03:59:57] <cradek> I'm in the process of getting a bridgeport mill - currently I have tabletop stuff.
[04:00:14] <cradek> on my tabletop mill I cut mostly circuit boards
[04:00:23] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek/cnc/pcb
[04:00:28] <klickrr> ahh, ok
[04:00:40] <klickrr> oh very nice
[04:00:49] <cradek> on the lathe I've been known to make parts for watch repair, haven't done that much lately though
[04:01:17] <cradek> so ... various round things, with some threads :-)
[04:01:21] <klickrr> eheh, yea
[04:01:42] <klickrr> so what software generates the gcode for the circuit boards? you design those in dxf? or somethign else
[04:02:02] <cradek> I use Eagle, and some homebrew scripts in their scripting language
[04:02:18] <cradek> http://axis.unpy.net/
[04:02:40] <cradek> ^ here, you can see some stuff we did at CNC Workshop last month, including some stuff cut on my little lathe
[04:03:45] <klickrr> cnc workshop? you guys meetup somewhere?
[04:03:53] <klickrr> oh was that the video i watched on youtube
[04:03:55] <cradek> yes once a year in IL
[04:03:58] <klickrr> timelapse
[04:04:10] <cradek> heh yeah, pretty boring wasn't it
[04:04:13] <klickrr> eheh, well yes eheh
[04:04:22] <cradek> I was one of those guys
[04:04:27] <klickrr> i was hoping something cool would be made in the background slowely or something
[04:04:38] <klickrr> yea
[04:04:52] <klickrr> so what were you guys doing there?
[04:04:59] <klickrr> i had no idea from the video
[04:05:08] <klickrr> just having a good time? or was there a purpose eheh
[04:05:15] <cradek> some coding, some work on that large Mazak machine behind us
[04:05:31] <cradek> that machine runs EMC2 and we use it as a testbed for a lot of stuff
[04:05:40] <cradek> it has a complicated tool changer, etc
[04:05:47] <cradek> this year, we did rigid tapping
[04:06:37] <klickrr> yea i see that
[04:06:40] <cradek> also, some advanced lathe stuff (feed per rev, constant surface speed)
[04:07:17] <cradek> pretty much, we just do whatever we feel like for a week in a central location with nice hardware to work on
[04:07:22] <klickrr> ya
[04:07:44] <cradek> it's the kind of "vacation" that's hard to explain to "normal" people
[04:07:54] <klickrr> oh i understand, don't worry :)
[04:08:01] <klickrr> are the core developers of emc in here?
[04:08:06] <cradek> I know, I can tell :-)
[04:08:13] <cradek> yes virtually all of them are here sometimes
[04:08:35] <klickrr> that's cool, good to know
[04:08:46] <cradek> also on the mailing lists
[04:09:34] <klickrr> ya, when i first started cnc, i built my machine, and wrote a complete custom program to control it. I didn't use realtime linux though, and every time i refreshed the screen my machine froze up for 40ms eheh.. it was quite annoying, i built a TON of stuff like that though. I didn't want to load up dos to get mach2 or anything like that, then i found linuxemc and was so happy
[04:09:53] <cradek> cool
[04:10:01] <cradek> did you start using emc some time ago?
[04:10:17] <klickrr> yea, i guess i loaded that other puter about 1 1/2 ago
[04:10:30] <cradek> I started in maybe '03-04 and it sure has come a long way
[04:10:40] <klickrr> i moved 7 months ago though, and just finally got around to hooking the machine back up, and decided to build a new box for it as well
[04:10:58] <klickrr> i've missed it, 7 months without my cnc sucked eheh
[04:11:04] <klickrr> i had to build my new workshop too
[04:11:09] <klickrr> before i could hook it up
[04:11:13] <cradek> that sounds like a big project
[04:11:29] <klickrr> i wanna build a bigger machine though, but for now i just want to use what i have
[04:11:32] <cradek> what's your homemade mill? any photos of it online?
[04:11:59] <klickrr> hmm, no photos, granted it would take 2 minutes to take some, but it's a hobbycnc.com plans, but I rebuilt the entire gantry from plexiglass
[04:12:24] <klickrr> made it bigger, and allowed for a full 12" in the Y axis instead of 9", and increased the Z from 1 inch to 2.1 (2 effective)
[04:12:37] <klickrr> oh i do have a video somewhere
[04:12:36] <cradek> what do you make with it?
[04:12:44] <klickrr> well it's made out of wood mainly
[04:12:51] <klickrr> the first iteration was
[04:12:57] <klickrr> the gantry was the only rebuilt section
[04:13:12] <klickrr> which i built with itself, out of plexiglass
[04:13:20] <cradek> neat
[04:13:30] <klickrr> you know, i think i lost that video, i had a hard drive crash a few months ago and lost a bunch of stuff
[04:13:43] <cradek> ah, maybe some other time, no big deal
[04:14:13] <cradek> the gantry (Y?) has one motor or two?
[04:14:28] <klickrr> it was a good video though, cause it showed me doing 3d cutout of "Klick" my nickname, was easy to see that it was mine ehhe
[04:14:31] <klickrr> 2
[04:14:34] <klickrr> i have X, Y and Z
[04:14:39] <klickrr> X is about 24 inches long
[04:14:46] <klickrr> Y is 12 inches
[04:14:46] <klickrr> Z is 2 inches
[04:14:50] <klickrr> servo motors
[04:14:54] <klickrr> gecko drives
[04:15:06] <cradek> oh I understand, I was asking if the bridge is driven on both sides by separate motors
[04:15:10] <klickrr> the servo's i picked up on ebay for a good price, 1200CPR quadrature encoders i think
[04:15:28] <klickrr> oh
[04:15:36] <klickrr> no, single motors for each axis..
[04:15:43] <cradek> ah
[04:16:02] <cradek> larger gantrys use two, homing/synchronizing them is an interesting problem
[04:16:06] <klickrr> using standard leadscrews, anti backlash nuts
[04:16:14] <klickrr> yea
[04:16:35] <cradek> I have delrin nuts on my little mill - amazing how well they work
[04:17:02] <klickrr> yea
[04:17:28] <klickrr> i have plans from machinetoolcamp for building a new machine, uses rack and pinion, not sure how much I trust it eheh
[04:17:36] <klickrr> not sure if i'm going to use these plans or not really
[04:17:45] <cradek> sounds like backlash city
[04:18:00] <klickrr> yea, well they "claim" no backlash of course, or some tolerable 0.004"
[04:18:12] <klickrr> granted, there are anti-backlash gear's that i found somewhere
[04:18:32] <klickrr> which was recommended by someone on cnczone.com who always seems to know what he's talkinga bout
[04:18:58] <klickrr> i almost feel like just buying a machine from someone like k2cnc, but i think part of the fun is building it
[04:19:25] <cradek> yeah I have those mixed feelings too
[04:19:45] <cradek> I've decided an old bridgeport cnc with a dodgy control is the right thing for me to start with
[04:19:53] <klickrr> ya
[04:19:58] <cradek> seems there's a lot of them around
[04:22:02] <klickrr> the machine size i want is like $12000 from shopbot and from k2cnc it's like $8000, actually neither have the exact size i want
[04:22:30] <cradek> yow
[04:22:34] <klickrr> custom built i can get it exactly the size i want
[04:22:44] <klickrr> plus it would be a bit cheaper (god i hope eheh)
[04:22:50] <cradek> yeah
[04:23:06] <klickrr> i like the idea of using aluminum extrustions, 8020 type stuff
[04:23:26] <klickrr> to build the frame, that's why i bought the machinetoolcamp plans, since that's what they use...
[04:23:25] <cradek> yeah, that seems like a good scheme
[04:24:05] <klickrr> you work mainly with metal? well besides circuit boards
[04:24:08] <cradek> at cnc workshop a guy was demonstrating lost foam casting - that works really well
[04:24:37] <cradek> the little mill can barely cut any metal. that's the main reason I want a larger machine.
[04:25:22] <klickrr> lost foam casting? not sure i know what you mean there
[04:25:43] <klickrr> there's a wiki for it
[04:25:47] <klickrr> give me a sec :)
[04:25:50] <cradek> you make the pattern out of foam, coat it in plaster, support with sand
[04:25:57] <cradek> then pour the metal "into" the foam which disappears
[04:26:07] <tomp2> interesting stuff on split pinion anti backlash rack... and more about machine design from MIT's design labs http://pergatory.mit.edu/2.75/2_75%20Lectures/PMD%20Topic%2021a%20Linear%20power%20trans%201.pdf
[04:26:07] <cradek> you get a great finish, much better than normal sand casting
[04:27:06] <klickrr> pour metal, i don't think i have the equipment to liquify metal eheh
[04:28:25] <cradek> I better run - battery's almost dead
[04:28:29] <cradek> goodnight klickrr
[04:28:34] <cradek> come back anytime
[04:28:34] <klickrr> night cradek
[04:28:38] <klickrr> oh i will eheh
[04:30:43] <klickrr> tomp2: that thing says ballscrews can easily achieve repeatability on the order of one micron..... jeez, that's saying a lot, i know ballscrews are good, but to "easily achieve" and down to one micron, the person writing this loves ballscrews i think
[04:35:21] <tomp2> less than 1 um actually, microinches is common. but they get lost in the rest of teh machine. you buy leadscrews in 'grades', the better one are very hig precision and very expensive :)
[04:35:59] <tomp2> and gears ( racks) can also be very high precision
[04:44:41] <ds2> any guesses as to what "EMO" input (toward controller) signal would mean in the context of a CNC mill?
[11:59:50] <Martin_Lundstrom> Hello everyone
[12:00:28] <Martin_Lundstrom> Rugludallur: Are you there? I have done some more testing, and I have more feedback to give
[12:21:18] <Martin_Lundstrom> Is there any documentation on the HAL component Oneshot?
[12:27:10] <lerneaen_hydra> http://www.lerneaenhydra.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=2 <-- new EMC system
[12:27:28] <Martin_Lundstrom> Tjena lerneaen_hydra
[12:27:35] <Martin_Lundstrom> hur ar laget?
[12:27:43] <lerneaen_hydra> jodå bra
[12:29:06] <Martin_Lundstrom> nice movies
[12:30:23] <lerneaen_hydra> thanks
[12:30:46] <Martin_Lundstrom> Har du klarat alla tentorna?
[12:31:00] <lerneaen_hydra> hittils har det gått bra ja :)
[12:31:13] <Martin_Lundstrom> gratulerar!
[12:31:22] <lerneaen_hydra> tackar tackar
[12:31:38] <Martin_Lundstrom> jag brukade tenta en del pa sensommaren
[12:33:55] <lerneaen_hydra> ah okok
[12:34:49] <Martin_Lundstrom> ska du jobba ngt under sommaren?
[12:35:00] <lerneaen_hydra> jodå har jobbat lite på arcam
[12:35:33] <Martin_Lundstrom> ok, vad gor du dar?
[12:36:49] <lerneaen_hydra> lite sommarjobbs sysslor, hjälper till lite här o där
[12:37:14] <Martin_Lundstrom> ok
[13:15:00] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: this is the one that needed the large backlash correction?
[13:15:41] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[13:17:12] <jepler> looks nice
[13:17:18] <jepler> what material were you engraving?
[13:17:21] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah all in all quite nice
[13:17:29] <lerneaen_hydra> a plastic sandwich
[13:17:42] <lerneaen_hydra> thin white upper layer and black substrate
[13:17:51] <jepler> ah
[13:19:33] <Martin_Lundstrom> mmmm
[14:57:51] <tomp> cradek: maybe you know these pages about watchmaking... http://www.timezone.com/library/itsabouttime/200611201879 beautiful workmanship and they use an 8 axis mill
[15:06:41] <anonimasu> tomp: edm?
[15:06:45] <anonimasu> ah..
[15:06:53] <anonimasu> sorry didnt read the last part :)
[16:19:40] <anonimasu> klickrr: keep in mind that alu isnt _very_ rigid..
[16:21:06] <anonimasu> ^_^
[16:31:34] <takeda> hello friends, i am a cnc n00b ;-)
[16:32:26] <cradek> hi
[16:32:31] <takeda> :)
[16:33:40] <takeda> may i ask why emc doesn't a have a nice looking gui? i mean why all that tcl and scripting gui instead of nice gtk interface??
[16:35:08] <cradek> in general the answer to why a free software project doesn't have a particular thing is that nobody has contributed it
[16:35:50] <takeda> ok. my question was maybe there is a particular reason for a scripting based interface.
[16:35:52] <cradek> the answer to why nobody has contributed it can be much more complex
[16:36:22] <takeda> explain please
[16:37:00] <cradek> brb
[16:37:11] <takeda> :)
[16:39:49] <lerneaen_hydra> takeda: have you tried axis? IMO it's a good looking gui
[16:40:51] <takeda> . no it's not starting up,
[16:41:03] <takeda> i am with arch-linux and made a make && make install
[16:41:12] <takeda> i have to fix it
[16:41:15] <takeda> :-|
[16:42:26] <jmkasunich> axis qualifies as a "good looking" GUI (IMO)
[16:43:09] <lerneaen_hydra> hey there jmk
[16:43:19] <jmkasunich> hi
[16:43:28] <takeda> thnks
[16:44:00] <lerneaen_hydra> a while back I recall you saying something about backlash being half-broken but the fix would be hard to implement, do you know if it is fixed? backlash comp seems to be working now
[16:44:11] <jmkasunich> its half fixed now
[16:44:16] <lerneaen_hydra> something about 2x max_vel (now it's apparently 1.5x maxvel)
[16:44:37] <jmkasunich> backlash is allowed to use 0.5 of the max accel
[16:44:45] <takeda_xc> takeda_xc is now known as takeda
[16:44:59] <jmkasunich> if the axis is already running at max accel due to the program, the total accel might be as high as 1.5x
[16:45:00] <lerneaen_hydra> oh so backlash accel is half of max accel?
[16:45:06] <lerneaen_hydra> ah, ok
[16:45:21] <lerneaen_hydra> and the same for max_vel?
[16:45:49] <jmkasunich> usually vel isn't an issue - backlash comp takes place during a direction reversal, so vel is pretty low
[16:46:23] <lerneaen_hydra> what if you do say; g0 x0, g0 x10, g0 x0
[16:46:34] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, wait
[16:46:41] <lerneaen_hydra> I see what you mean
[16:46:52] <lerneaen_hydra> unless you've got a lot of backlash
[16:47:09] <lerneaen_hydra> low maxvel and high maxaccel
[16:47:19] <jmkasunich> if you have so much lash that you can accel to a sizable fraction of max speed (at 0.5 max accel) during the comp, you have too much lash
[16:47:29] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[16:47:51] <lerneaen_hydra> what would happen then, is there a 1.5 maxvel limit or would it hit 2x maxvel?
[16:48:01] <jmkasunich> to be honest I don't know
[16:48:17] <jmkasunich> the 0.5 accel stuff was put in by somebody else
[16:48:20] <lerneaen_hydra> ok :)
[16:48:29] <jmkasunich> quite a while ago, maybe a year, maybe more?
[16:48:38] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, that long ago
[16:48:46] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich checks
[16:51:00] <jmkasunich> Mon Sep 18 21:11:35 2006 UTC (9 months, 2 weeks ago) by baslaarhoven Implemented S-curve (smooth) backlash compensation.
[16:51:22] <lerneaen_hydra> ah, that was a while back
[16:51:29] <lerneaen_hydra> baslaarhoven?
[16:51:41] <jmkasunich> I think thats the only thing he's ever committed
[16:51:45] <lerneaen_hydra> oh ok
[17:04:08] <takeda> can somebody tell any opinion about http://www.marchantdice.com/
[17:04:18] <takeda> i am about to make a big order through ebay
[17:04:19] <takeda> ...................
[17:04:52] <jmkasunich> never heard of them
[17:05:00] <takeda> he is in england
[17:05:02] <jmkasunich> but that doesn't mean much, I'm in the US
[17:05:10] <takeda> ok
[17:25:35] <klickrr> anonimasu: My current machine is made out of wood, aluminum is much more rigid then that at least eheheh :)
[17:32:06] <robin_sz> takeda: marchant dice have a very good reputation over here. very fast shipping, industry best prices
[17:33:37] <archivist> oo, new one on me
[17:36:04] <archivist> * archivist is annoyed he is late back, missed an ebay toy, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sony-touch-sensor-CNC-Milling-DRO-Magnescale_W0QQitemZ140133190113QQihZ004QQcategoryZ112399QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[17:36:50] <jmkasunich> bummer
[17:37:06] <tomp> i have a zombie window from an xml (loaded by a .hal). what to do?
[17:37:32] <jmkasunich> shoot it in the head
[17:37:38] <jmkasunich> (thats the only way to kill those things)
[17:37:42] <tomp> pass the bullets please
[17:37:53] <tomp> silver
[17:38:20] <jmkasunich> silver is for werewolves silly
[17:38:54] <tomp> bin/halcmd unloadrt all, unload all, scripts/realtime stop, all ineefective, and cant see it in ps
[17:39:05] <tomp> or top
[17:39:34] <jmkasunich> ineffective as in HAL remains loaded (the modules, check lsmod)
[17:39:43] <jmkasunich> or ineffective as in the zombie won't go away?
[17:40:54] <tomp> i see no items is lsmod's output that i can identify as hal, and 'ineffective' as in the empty clear window frame is presistant
[17:41:02] <tomp> per
[17:41:22] <tomp> was a pyvcp window
[17:41:39] <jmkasunich> I've seen that once or twice when a python thing crashed without disconnecting itself from HAL
[17:41:45] <jmkasunich> not sure if there is a solution or not
[17:41:51] <tomp> ok thnaks
[17:42:01] <Martin_Lundstrom> Rugludallur: Are you around?
[19:28:03] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tests/ccomp/lathe-comp/expected: turning off the spindle before tool change was done on purpose
[19:28:20] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tests/ccomp/mill-g90g91g92/expected: turning off the spindle before tool change was done on purpose
[19:28:34] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tests/ccomp/mill-line-arc-entry/expected: turning off the spindle before tool change was done on purpose
[19:37:15] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tests/and-or-not-mux.0/expected: mux4 was wrong, we fixed it at workshop
[21:06:08] <JymmmmEMC> The ribs are on the bbq!
[21:06:26] <archivist> cnc bbq
[21:06:30] <Martin_Lundstrom> bon apetit
[21:06:41] <JymmmmEMC> archivist: Ummm, no!
[21:08:59] <JymmmmEMC> Anyone know anything about ground loops?
[21:09:41] <archivist> ground loops in what
[21:09:47] <JymmmmEMC> in general
[21:13:06] <archivist> well Im used to designing with grouning and imposed currents in pcb design
[21:14:28] <JymmmmEMC> I've been looking at this breakout board. It's suppose to be opto-isolated, but requires two seperate power sources. http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=48
[21:15:16] <JymmmmEMC> The thing is, the most quality db25 cables have theri shield common with the shell. So wouldn't that "break" the isolation between the PC and the controller box?
[21:15:42] <archivist> the isolation is in the optos
[21:16:01] <JymmmmEMC> in part, yes.
[21:16:05] <archivist> and psu transformer
[21:16:30] <JymmmmEMC> Well, on the PC side, would use the PC PS, which ic common with earth/chassis ground.
[21:16:37] <anonimasu> and in the relays.
[21:16:38] <JymmmmEMC> s/ic/is/
[21:16:46] <anonimasu> you should be using for controlling stuff that requires more power
[21:17:09] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: I'm strictly talking about grounds and isolation right now.
[21:18:28] <archivist> what you should not do is connect both grounds of the isolator board to its case
[21:19:06] <JymmmmEMC> archivist: Ok, now the isolatr GROUND is common to the chassis/earth ground on the PC
[21:19:16] <JymmmmEMC> Due to the PC PS
[21:20:01] <alex_joni> and remember to ground shielded cables only on one end
[21:20:11] <JymmmmEMC> understand what I'm getting at?
[21:20:27] <alex_joni> JymmmmEMC: yeah, but that's before the optos
[21:20:40] <alex_joni> after the optos you have a different PSU, not connected to the same ground
[21:21:10] <JymmmmEMC> alex_joni: Right, but most quality DB25 cables hav the shield tied to the shell
[21:21:19] <JymmmmEMC> the 26th wire
[21:22:04] <archivist> thats ok as its the pc ground to isolator ground
[21:22:21] <JymmmmEMC> archivist: abd also controller chassis ground
[21:22:26] <JymmmmEMC> and
[21:22:53] <JymmmmEMC> not abd
[21:23:49] <archivist> yes that case has ground from the pc
[21:24:20] <archivist> and none from the power socket if its on a wallwart
[21:24:30] <alex_joni> archivist: but he wanted to separate the two
[21:24:37] <alex_joni> PC and controller chassis
[21:24:54] <alex_joni> JymmmmEMC: actually it's wrong..
[21:25:04] <alex_joni> you don't have the PC ground on the output of the DB25
[21:25:12] <alex_joni> that should be after your isolation board
[21:25:32] <JymmmmEMC> alex_joni: what specifically is "wrong"?
[21:25:45] <archivist> the opto should not be grounded then to the controller chassis
[21:26:11] <JymmmmEMC> archivist: but it will be via the db25 cable, the 26th wire.
[21:26:58] <archivist> not if you mount the chassis connector correctly (isilated)
[21:27:09] <archivist> isolated
[21:27:39] <JymmmmEMC> Is that a "good thing"? Shouldn't all connectors be grounded for safety purposes?
[21:27:56] <alex_joni> JymmmmEMC: lets rewind a bit
[21:28:06] <alex_joni> you have a PC with GND_PC..
[21:28:18] <alex_joni> on the parport you connect your isolation board.. right?
[21:28:34] <alex_joni> it had GND_PC on the left side, and GND_AUX on the right side
[21:28:46] <JymmmmEMC> PAUSE
[21:28:50] <alex_joni> on the right side you connect the DB25 cable that goes to the controllers
[21:28:55] <alex_joni> * alex_joni pauses
[21:29:46] <JymmmmEMC> On the PC...12VDC GND, Chassis ground, and earth ground are all common. We are all in agreement with this?
[21:29:56] <alex_joni> yes
[21:30:02] <JymmmmEMC> k
[21:30:19] <JymmmmEMC> UNPAUSE
[21:30:32] <alex_joni> then you connect an isolation board
[21:30:46] <alex_joni> "<insert name here>"
[21:30:58] <JymmmmEMC> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=48
[21:31:14] <alex_joni> that one has the PC voltages on the "left" side, and some different PSU & GND on the "right" side
[21:31:23] <JymmmmEMC> k
[21:31:32] <alex_joni> you should probably stick it in a plastic enclosure
[21:31:44] <JymmmmEMC> PAUSE
[21:32:37] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is waiting
[21:32:40] <JymmmmEMC> I have an aluminum enclosure, mostly because I'll be running/controlling 120VAC @ 15A from within it. Not a good thing IMHO to use platics for it. UNPAUSE
[21:33:12] <archivist> still isolate the input connector from the case
[21:35:18] <alex_joni> JymmmmEMC: your board has 2 connectors
[21:35:27] <alex_joni> one that is going to the PC, and one to the controller.. right?
[21:35:51] <alex_joni> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/images/c11r3_1.jpg
[21:36:12] <alex_joni> one is labeled PC, the others label I can't see in that picture
[21:36:17] <JymmmmEMC> alex_joni: It's a pass-thru connector, nothign else.
[21:36:38] <alex_joni> it provides isolation, so it's not a simple pass through
[21:36:43] <alex_joni> or?
[21:37:04] <alex_joni> you have the isolated output only on the screw terminals?
[21:37:21] <JymmmmEMC> No, it says it has has isolation
[21:37:50] <alex_joni> if the 2 DB's are isolated from each other, then they are _not_ allowed to be touching the same frame/enclosure
[21:37:51] <JymmmmEMC> PC --- CNC4PC --- Xylotex (as example) opto-isolated
[21:38:30] <alex_joni> JymmmmEMC: CNC4PC -- Xylotex (is that the second DB25? or wires connected to the screw terminals?)
[21:38:45] <JymmmmEMC> 2nd db25
[21:38:53] <JymmmmEMC> probably both
[21:39:03] <alex_joni> ok, read it on the page
[21:39:26] <alex_joni> now.. when you stick it into an enclosure you need to make sure that only one of the DB25 touches the ground/frame
[21:39:41] <JymmmmEMC> right
[21:39:52] <alex_joni> if you have a PSU inside the same enclosure, then preferably the same DB should touch
[21:40:24] <JymmmmEMC> I'll need a seperate PS for the CONTROLLER side of the bb
[21:40:25] <alex_joni> say you have the AUX PSu in the enclosure, then the PC DB25 should not touch the enclosure, and the output (towards Xylotex) may touch it
[21:40:47] <JymmmmEMC> BB == Breakout Board
[21:40:58] <alex_joni> right
[21:41:38] <JymmmmEMC> So, I am right in that if I accidentlly placed the DB25 cable on top of the controller enclosure, I loos isolation.
[21:42:32] <alex_joni> right
[21:42:53] <alex_joni> but if you place the DB25 cable on top of the controller, there are no data lines connected
[21:43:05] <alex_joni> you simply connect the two grounds together.. which is not bad
[21:43:51] <JymmmmEMC> ok.
[21:44:49] <JymmmmEMC> Now sonce the PC grounds (all 3 of them) are common to EARTH ground, and the CNTL chassis will be earth grounded too, will that cause any issues/ ground loops?
[21:45:19] <alex_joni> depends on the CNTL
[21:45:29] <JymmmmEMC> Sorry, I'm also BBQ'ing at the same time here
[21:45:36] <JymmmmEMC> I mena the controller chassis
[21:45:49] <JymmmmEMC> the aluminum enclosure
[21:45:48] <alex_joni> right, that's what I mean too
[21:46:08] <alex_joni> if you have signal ground connected to the controller chassis, then you lose your isolation
[21:46:26] <alex_joni> because it closes through earth (electrical sockets)
[21:46:54] <JymmmmEMC> which signal ground, from the PC ?
[21:47:03] <alex_joni> yes, or from the bb in your case
[21:47:36] <JymmmmEMC> So, then I shouldn't earth ground the chassis?
[21:47:39] <archivist> you then get star grounding and no ground loop
[21:47:54] <alex_joni> JymmmmEMC: no, I didn't say that
[21:48:03] <JymmmmEMC> I know you didn't =)
[21:48:20] <alex_joni> you can earth ground the chassis, just make sure the common from the bb doesn't touch the chassis
[21:48:24] <alex_joni> like the DB25 shield
[21:48:42] <JymmmmEMC> The oc side of the bb or the controller side of the bb ?
[21:48:46] <JymmmmEMC> The pc side of the bb or the controller side of the bb ?
[21:48:57] <alex_joni> the controller side of the bb
[21:50:43] <alex_joni> * alex_joni heads to bed..
[21:50:43] <JymmmmEMC> Ok, I just checked the db25 shell ont eh drives are common to chassis. But not the return side of the step/dir
[21:50:58] <JymmmmEMC> alex_joni: G'night, see ya in a few hours
[21:51:08] <Skullworks-PGAB> Jym - I'm willing to bet the DB shell and screws are not grounded on the breakout board
[21:54:53] <klickrr> does the interface Axis have quick buttons to modify the feed override, like I used to hit 1-9 (and 0) to modify that, but those dont' work in Axis
[21:55:37] <JymmmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: I'll email and ask him.
[21:56:32] <alex_joni> klickrr: they work when you are running a program
[21:56:42] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:56:54] <Martin_Lundstrom> night
[21:57:36] <klickrr> night
[21:57:57] <klickrr> i was about to ask that.. eheh, that's the only time i care, but just haven't run a prog with axis yet, am about to though, thanks
[22:16:43] <jepler> klickrr: when running, `, 1..9, 0 modify feed override. when in manual mode, `, 1..2 (for a 3 axis mill) select axes and 3..9, 0 modify feed override
[22:16:47] <jepler> there is no option to control this behavior
[22:18:09] <jepler> oh wait I guess alex_joni said the same thing already