03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/main.lyx: document new gcode features developed at fest
did i tell you guys i got to talk with a very notable person in high precision machining
an engineer who works at the Lawerence Livermore national labs, on the diamond turning machines
holy crap this guy was like a walking/talking encyclopedia about how to improve machine tool accuracy
he talks about hitting millions of an inch like pissing in a bucket
a very large bucket
that you are standing in
does he talk about machines submerged in temperature-controlled oil and stuff?
and how to do it cost effectively
for some value of "cost effective"
he showed us a project where some dude spend 100 bucks, and a south bend 10"
and was able to produce a diamond turning machine
it could not contour, but it would produce mirrors and optics with simple spherical or flat profiels
the coolest part was how to set up scales and whatnot
on a machine
to produce the highest accuracy
and also, how poor scale placement can excascorbate errors
interferometry for calibration, I'd imagine
no, i'm talking about glass scales
on like, bridgeports
yep. alignment is prett ycritical
where you put the scale, not how it is aligned
which i did not know
sure. you get varying amounts of thermal expansion depending on where it is
machines are elastic
uh, no, it has nothing to do with any of those things
it's a kinematic problem
ah, yep. vibrational modes and the like
not vibration, friction, thermal, alignment, etc
vibration is kinematic ...:)
vibration doesn't affect this error
mass related acceleration twist
it's the geometric and kinematic relationship to the scales and the main axis of movement (leadscrew/ballscrew/whatever)
not that, either
although that does modify the problem
it's sort of a symptom of the problem rather than the cause
with a properly placed scale, the twist doesn't affect linear measurement
?measure all axes from the same physical point? not the x on the x, the y on the y and the z on the z
that's basically it
if i recall the spelling properly, the abbot principle
otherwise ya get relative measures.
but.. that means measuring ref point on rotating work piece to tip of cutter continously(through the item), difficullt for us cheapskates
wouldn't it be cool if you could run emcmot on a fpga? then you'd get hard real-time step generation...
metrologically speaking, any measurement taken from the machine is relative
maddash: does it count if it runs inside a hard core on the FPGA?
wasn't sure if you meant having emcmot rewritten into VHDL/etc or not
can EMC be asked to do a handshake with the spindle before proceeding, i.e have M03 block til the spindle report it is really spinning?
Yes - I think if you look at the mazak config - they use the feed hold until the spindle drive says it is at speed.
and if feedhole is invoked from the UI, is there a way to stop the 'spindle' automatically?
feed hold would be neat for the spindle speed
i'm pondering what would be involved in using emc to drive a plastic extruder head; feed hold and a running extruder head == big mess :/
the speed handshake would be mapped to the head coming up to temperature
now i'm not a big guy who knows anything about this
but couldn't you use HAL to do that
use a temp sensor, when the sensor voltage passes X
donno... just looking for a quick way to get something together for testing
yes, a microcontroller can flip a bit on the parallel port; figuring if I tell EMC that bit is really the spindle declaring it is ready....
could you use an external potentiometer
to drop the temp sensor voltage below the threshhold
on the pin
an op amp would be easier
you won't get NC control of the temperature
no need; the temp is fixed
but it doesn't sound like you care al that much
just need to confirm it is up to it, so when the motor runs, it won't try to squeeze solid material through a nozzle
the reprap guys got their own software but I want something simplier and G codes are nice and simple
oh, 3d printing.
i demand 8d printing
how i see it, it is 3.667 times better than 3d printing
so , who is broadcasting live from the fest???
in soviet russia, fests brodcast from YOU
true, but we live in the good 'ol US of A
hmmm, seems to me that somebody is a bit "toasted" this evening....
toastyde1th is now known as toastydeath
gaim has a nice tabbed feature, the close session icon is about 1 mm from the select session area, so i close a lot when i want to select :(
gaim is now called pidgin?
mdynac, hello, going to fest?
nope boo hoo
me neither, and the guys are working hard again
that' not surprising
i am too busy , up to my ears in broken edms
i'm, off to tulsa for same on Sun nite
monterey, ca next week, then i shuffle off to buffalo the week after, not to mention the umpteen problems at edm network
monterey might be nice if you get some time to look about, tho its usually same old industrial park, sameo rentacar sameo hotel sameo airport...
Naval Postgraduate School, quite a nice base
yes Monterey Ca, home of the 14 dollar cheesebuger and six dollar fries....
what goes on at this cnc fest thing
looks like a lan party
with machines in the background
that people are using to lean on
actually the machines are holding up coffee cups....
I STAND CORRECTED
cutting edge java meterology
now yer talkin.
rigid tapping is working..
today the fest guys were making some tool holders, was that for holding taps?
no - to hold a small ball end mill.
what kind of tool holders?
the tooling for the mazak is a bit sparce
you guys have a grinder?
a coffee grinder
mdynac: your comments make me want to attend
even though i know nothing about emc
it really isn't an emc only fest.
i had a blast last year.....i even brought my own coffee grinder
it is only the best part of the fest ;)
do you guys have an emc coffee machine
m03 (brew cycle on)
its actually a hal coffee machine
if they did, it would rock...
that would be an amazing project
you could have a 4-pot coffee pot changer
or maybe a rotary transfer coffee machine?
and the auto decaf rejection circuit
you are my new favorite person.
i think that is what i look forward to every day at work
[02:46:58] <skunkworks> http://axis.unpythonic.net/
getting in, in a nice 68 deg temp controlled room
grabbing a cup of coffee, starting the DT lathe
and sitting around reading while it does its thing
so any neat gizmos or machines at the fest?
LOL... LEAD Pb FOIL TAPE 1½ in. x 36 yds x .003 in. thick - hazardous to large or small children - do not ingest or rub on body - it's LEAD !!! keeps out X-rays 'n stuff
nothing really stands out.. lots of odds and ends.\
does anybody bring whole machines
all kinds of small mills,
here is another random question, this time about emc
what's the maximum scale resolution
my machine does 50 millionths.....
can it do tenths of millionths
or is there like an integer cap
are you working on the space shuttle?
no, i'm trying to convince work to bring up a spare diamond lathe on EMC
or are you making very small parts
servos or steppers?
oh, on the axis drive
i have no idea
it wouldn't matter
if we do an upgrade we'll be putting new motors on it
and i don't know enough about the motor side of accuracy
to say what they'll use
"thrust tube" -- that sounded funny, for some reason
for now they're talking about using glass scales
and possibly lvdt's
glass scale = good
er, for scales
but it won't matter if we use lvdts if the machine screws won't position past what a glass scale can do
pardon my ignorance but what is an lvdt?
it stands for "linear variable displacment transformer"
it's a little measurement probe
like a linear resolver
ahhhhhh, kinda like what they use on a CMM
analog output, so infinite resolution ( sorta)
one angstrom is pretty infinite
but those are really expensive
most of them do millionths or 1/10 millionths
300 bucks or so
for a 0-.5" range
you can get them larger though
i would really like to see them underake producing a fluid bearing leadscrew
that's what all the high precision machines seem to be using
Rugludallur: i was reading the NewPlasamaDesign.odg. is there a .hal file to accompany it?
i am really taking a liking to all this high precision stuff
it's a ton of fun to be a part of
wow, busy in the workshop ey
Jymmm: any chance you found a source of lead sheets?
skunkworks, I seem to have lost you link to the pwm schematics, would you mind providing it agian?
ds2: lead foil only
JymmmmEMC: ds2 who is looking for lead sheet?
JymmmmEMC: I just bought a bunch of lead sheet known as 3pound lead (3 lbs/sq ft), it is used as roof flashing on concrete tile roofing
JymmmmEMC: it is about 1/16" thick and comes in 80' rools 3' wide
ds2: from a roofing supply place.... they also use that weight of lead for making lead drain pipe flashings
LawrenceG: what part of the globe/country/continent?
ds2: you can get those in Canada at Home depot and most building supply stores
how much do you need?
I just need a small amount
phone a roofing supply store... mine is 9" wide by 80' long roll and cost about $100... I used 5 rolls to flash my roof
they don't allow that sort of thing here anymore :(
for all the step flashings between the concrete tile and the side of the building
I would mail you some, but it is HEAVY
not worth it
where are you? E.U.?
I would be surprised if you could not get it... there are not really any good substitutes
[04:29:51] <LawrenceG> http://www.radiationproducts.com/lead-flashings.htm
[04:30:39] <LawrenceG> http://www.radiationproducts.com/sheet-lead.htm
1000 Superior Boulevard, Suite 310 ? Wayzata, MN 55391
1.888.ringrpp (1.888.746.4777) ? Tol Free Fax : 1.866.554.8445
cool site... my father in law installed a lead wall to keep the sound from a disco from annoying the hotel patrons
is there an example on how to invoke/use the debounce component? I grepped -r the emc2/ for 'debounce', and all I came up with was the demo_mazak .hal file. I didn't understand its usage of debounce.
I did that too...but it doesn't mention how to specify which pins to debounce
it just suddenly pops up with the term "filter groups"
and I've grepped the halcmd manual for 'group' -- nothing relevant...
you use it by interposing a debounce between the physical input and whatever else you want to connect it to
parport.mumble -> debounce.mumble.in ; debounce.mumble.out -> axis.mumble.home-sw-in
hi jepler, chris and the rest of yoose in the picture :}
looks like its getting kind of friendly
there's me, chris (black shirt), rick is in the back, steve stallings is in the suspenders, and john k is working hard disassembling a busted encoder for scrap
jepler: "[cfg=size[,size,...]" <--- is "size" the threshold? the man page just calls it "number of filters"
jepler: hm, and i'm going to take a wild guess at "G" and "F": if I want to filter, say, parport.0.pin-10-in, then I'd "linkpp parport.0.pin-10-in debounce.0.pin-10-in.int"?
maddash: you probably one one group with N filters where N is the number of switches you want to debounce
maddash: then you 'setp' the debounce.0.delay to set the amount of debounce (# of samples) for all the filters
jepler: "probably one one group" <-- "probably want one group"?
jepler: ah, totally neglected .delay param
jepler: so, F (index of each pin in group G?) has no constraints?
maddash: I am tired so I can't parse that question right now
experiment if you didn't achieve enlightenment from the manpage
hey LawrenceG ltns
heh, found an explanation inside of rtcomp.lyx, now manually deciphering the debounce section
Rugludallur: Are you there?
Rugludallur: anyway, I made some progress with the thc config and I want to give you feedback.
if only it where that simple :)
what? life in general?
is possible on in emc one driver panasonic MADDT1107003 for control servo motors?
how on servo motors in emc?
How EMC connects to servo drives depends upon the card you select.
A Vital PCI card will connect to servo systems using encoder signals and analog
is possible to use panasonic MADDT1107003?
on this in serial port
It looks like the panasonic will use analog speed
We don't have serial port speed and position modules in EMC yet.
not possible to use the this?
But the drive should support encoder (A, B, I) position
do have enconder
see this page please:
[13:29:52] <rafa> http://pewa.panasonic.com/acsd/motion-control/products/a4.php
I don't find that exact model in the spec but what comes up says Pulse and analog command input
you see the page?
I see a page at http://pewa.panasonic.com/acsd/motion-control/products/a4.php
"A4-SIMPLE DRIVE PULSE ONLY" http://www.galco.com/scripts/cgiip.exe/wa/wcat/itemdtl.r?listtype=Catalog&pnum=MADDT1107003-PANS
looks like a new product, so not in some lists
I saw quite a few of these motors and drives at the Bejing machine tool show last year.
Very nice units.
please my inglish is low
this is mi drive
hi rafa :)
is possible conect this in emc, please?
If this drive only accepts pulses are they step and direction?
i dont know
no works in parport
in serial port
is a programable drive
rafa: not work now, because serial, not easy to do, but possible if you work hard at it and study a lot
Do you have a url for it's manual
i go study the driver
good luck rafa
may help manuals http://pewa.panasonic.com/acsd/downloads.php?s=t&series=a4%3B13&division=motion&resourcetypes%5B%5D=manuals
tho i cant find that model
i go study it
latert i ask for you
maybe that number is the amplifier, not the motor
very thanks for you atention
and welcome to the last day of cnc workshop
I hope we do another donut today
I think you guys have accomplished a ton.
we have to, after working so hard making that collet
if only I could figure out python-gtk and glade ...
if only I could learn to calculate the number of items of clean clothing required for an 8 day trip
rafa: it has serial communications (eg: tuning, monitoring ) but it has simple wiring for analog velocity control. see pages 4-15 and 4-16 of this document http://pewa.panasonic.com/acsd/downloads.php?s=t&series=a4%3B13&division=motion&resourcetypes%5B%5D=manuals
(select "A4 Instruction Manual")
(8+1)*(daily unit ) for rainy day;)
oops I'd better head downstairs ..
rafa: MADD is listed in the index
tomp: he left...
jepler, cradek, fantastik effort you guys are putting in! skunkworks got a new toy today http://wigen.net/hobby/yak54/
skunkworks, would you have that pwm link handy?
was it something i said? hehe
cradek: there is a simple way to calculate the amount of clothing needed on a trip ... for example socks. 1 day trip =>1 pair socks, 2 days => 2 pairs, 3 days => 3 pairs, 4 days => 3 pairs, 5 days => 3pairs, 6 days => 3 pairs etc etc
socks and boxers I always do [days of trip] + 1
more than 3?
yeah... unless the trip is longer than 5 days
I max out at 5 usually
try 3 pairs maximum ...
the pair you are wearing ...
I have a 3 day trip this week
should work out great
the pair you took off yesterday
and the pair, that tomorow, will seem a bit cleaner than the other two
underpants/boxers are like spaghetti
ever cooked traditional spaghetti?
you know how to tell whenthe pasts is just cooked right?
you throw a piece at the wall, if it sticks its done
throw a noodle?
same applies to boxers
if they stick to the wall, they need changing
or at least turning inside out
my travle clothing aloowances were established on long trekking and climbing trips, may not be appropriate for business trips
whose page is that .. the wigen.net one
rigid tapping - W00T!
I see a Variac on the table at fest... ( whats next a Tesla coil for Mach users... )
is this an emc fest or a general CNC fest?
or is this a revisit to that mazak up north?
the official name is "CNC workshop"
mach and others are here too
any demos of the G100 or grex or whatever mariss ended up calling that usb thing?
03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/iotask/ioControl.cc:
* test hal_bit_t values in the proper way
* remove a debugging statement
* fix switching to T0 (no tool)
robin_sz: I haven't seen any G-Rex demos
personally I've lost interest in it, and am playing with the mesa 5i20 now
I like being able to program the FPGA myself
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_servo.comp: skunkworks noticed that not all items were changed to the new naming convention
jmkasunich, the mesa is just too expensive for amateurs IMHO
the only thing I know of thats cheaper is the pluto
how much is the Grex?
the cheapest GRex is $300, the "in the case" version is $400
ok. found it Grex G100 $399
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: make the 'flood' button appear when coolant-flood is connected
the Mesa is $200 for the card, plus a bit for the various I/O isolators you'd want (and PWM->analog servo interfaces ...)
Grex G101 $208
ok. I thought that one was $300
[16:16:19] <DanielFalck> http://www.geckodrive.com/product.cfm?pid=17
yep, I see it
ah, that doesn't include the Rabbit, I think
add $50 for the RCM3720 ...
is the Grex thing Windows oriented?
or is it cross platform?
DanielFalck: there is not an emc driver if that's what you're asking
03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: merge rev 1.103: make the 'flood' button appear when coolant-flood is connected
there is Linux front end software
however, development can only be done with the Rabbit development kits
($300, Windows only)
which is Windows.....
hahaha "rabbit development kits"
that sounds so...dirty...
and Mariss hasn't released the pin file for the FPGA, so even if someone wanted to make a new FPGA config, they couldn't
(though that could be done on Linux with the free Xilinx tools)
(if we had the information)
(and we really wanted to)
is it ok if for a program to issue several emccommandbuffer->write calls while only waiting for the last one?
no problem there. When I decide to convert my mill over from Centroid to EMC, I will use whatever system is already working- like Mesa
^^ I'm getting some weird "Can't take semaphore" messages while I'm repeatedly bombarding emc with emc_task_mode_estop messages, and I'm wondering if the two are related
"don't do that" ?
swpadnos: don't do which?
bombard emc with emc_task_mode_estop messages
SWPadnos, the mesa works out at $350 with the interfaces you need, thats a lot for a pci card
swpadnos: do you acutally know what happens when I do?
what interfaces did you choose? 7i33 + 2x7i37?
fecking tab complete.
maddash: no, but it sounded like you get weird stuff :)
03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/lathe-pluto/ (postgui.hal vcp.xml lathe-pluto.hal lathe-pluto.ini): update config - as run at cnc workshop 2007
robin_sz: it's not bad for a motion control system that's fully reprogrammable
1 x 7i33 and 1 x 7i37
I didn't think the breakouts were that high
and what is the competition that makes $350 be "a bit high for a PCI card"?
vital is more even before you buy breakouts
compared to the comptetion its cheap
but its still a lot for what it is
ditto (more expensive) galil, pmac, stg
hm, if I only wait for emcstatus every few emccommandbuffer->write 's , and I still get the message after a while, then this could be memory-leak related.
prices for ANY product are only high or low when compared to the prices of other ways of doing the same thing
robin_sz: mesa looks like a bargain to me. For what it will do in the end
is it fully supported by emc yet?
ok, well, that changes things a bit, last time I looked it was still in development
4 channel analog servo is and has been supported for some time
using the 5i20 to do hardware step generation is in development now
and minor code changes can support the standard Mesa 8-axis and 12-axis configs as well
and basic IO for random pumps and things?
the board has 72 I/0 (3 connectors, 24 each)
4 channels of servo uses one connector
the other 2 are I/O
and they are fully supported in emc?
presently hardcode to 8 out 16 in per plug (IIRC)
just to bugger it up... oh! does emc and mesa handle 8 and 12 axis ;) ( whatever happened to Til Frasnitza's buddy doing 8 axis emc?)
the same developement that is working on stepgen will make the usage of the spare pins be completely configurable (any mix of in and out)
4 axis is enough for 99%
actually, an interesting one is waterjet with the extra two axes for head tilt, thats 5 axes on a basic machine
psht. 9-axis pwns all.
ok, that changes things somewhat,
holy crap, 72 i/o pins
thats not a lot
you use up quite a few per axis
robin_sz: then make your own fpga pinout board. :P
believe it or not, I actually went ahead and bought another two parallel pci cards for my other axes
[sigh] and I was planning on building my own "anything i/o" pci card too.
as in paralell port cards?
robs/parallel pci/parallel port pci/
damn tab key.
right ... they are cheap enough, like $10
each servo axis requires 6 pins: step/dir or pwm/dir (or up/down PWM) + A B Z encoder inputs, plus a motor driver enable output
yeah, but it's such an inelegant hack
so 72 I/Os gives tou 12 axes with no aux I/O
so they don't get used up too quickly
when I grow up, I'm going to hard core emcmot into an fpga core.
too late :)
crap -- who beat me to it this time?
well, the motion controller runs in the Rabbit, the White Heat processor and FPGA only deal with motion "actuation", not motion planning
but the next MEsa card may be able to have the wntire motion controller in it (a stripped down one, of course) - I think he's going to a 1Mgate+ FPGA on that one
iirc he coded the servo loops into white heat and used the analogue IO to drive the servo amps
that moved the PID loops into the fpga
hmmm. I didn't have that understanding, but I'm not sure about it
actually, I don't know anything about an analog output version of the G-Rex code
(I know it has the outputs, but I don't have info about any config that uses them for motor control)
[16:42:31] <maddash> http://cgi.ebay.com/LINUX-BOOT-CD-CNC-LINUXCNC-UBUNTU-MILLING-LATHES-EMC2_W0QQitemZ200119622905QQihZ010QQcategoryZ3771QQcmdZViewItem
I played with them a bit, coded a pid loop in the rabbit etc
that's so wrong.
steve took it a bit further IIRC, coded the pid in white heat
as long as they keep updating to the latest CD, it's OK
ok. I don't recall that, but I've been ignoring a lot of list traffic lately so ...
what attracted me to it was the not needing any specific performance fromthe PC, it was just a USB connection for a bit of GUI display
wold have been ideal for desktop routers etc
but, there you go ... so many ideas, so little time
where are these 72-pinned lovelies sold? I can't find them on ebay
03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/demo_mazak/ (demo_mazak.clp demo_mazak.hal demo_mazak.ini): mazak changes from CNC-workshop 2007
hmm, a manufacturer that does its own marketing? that's odd.
jmkasunich while you're at it, take out the debounce reference in demo_mazak.hal
small userbase, doesnt need much marketing
debounce isn't used at all (at least not in 2.1.5's version)
no offense to mesa afficionados out there, but these guys wouldn't happen to be operating out of a garage, would they?
4175 Lakeside Drive, Suite 100, Richmond, CA. They probably rent a small office there.
mesa doesn't seem to be a agarage operation. they sell to industrial customers, so I think the end user web ordering thing isn't too important to them
in terms of the bottom line, anyway
doesn't look too shabby.
now, if only I could get a refund for my parport pci cards...
hope you didnt pay more than $10 for em
03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/lib/python/rs274/glcanon.py: fix rigid_tap preview
03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/gcodemodule.cc: fix rigid_tap preview
why's the 5i20 so pricey? is it because of the high-end fpga?
I guess just the small production runs
brb, gotta ask my parents for $250
fpga is less than $50
I suspect the build cost is sub $75, so I guess $200 is a fair price actually
heh, china ... bunch of pirates :) ..
robin_sz: are they steal open source code?
stealing Open Source is kinda Oxy moron - but using open source - rebranded as your own unique product...
I just happend to type a (hacked) registration code for some s/w into google, and lo and behold it appears on about 500 web pages
all of them chinese
the rest is russians?
not this time
jepler: specifically item #2
Tomp: The hal files and the lastest version of the diagram are all checked in, should be most recent version under the plasma-thc config
Martin: Great to hear you have progress, got things working ?
tomp: I have not changed them for 3 weeks though, been away
Found a nice company @ Computex this year that manifactures multi parport/io cards and have linux drivers for cheap
They have things like pci cards that have 10 parports on a remote pendant and such :)
Argh.... Can't find cheap DDR ram =(
Rugludallur: np, great work, thanks. I will study how to use with servo rather than stepgen. ( so pwm maybe, cant use PID )
JymmmmEMC: trying to find it, looks like I might only have details at work, will post when I have them
probably won't be untill monday
Rugludallur: Just nice to be able to review back later from the irc logs is all.
there were also some impressive near-realtime ethernet industrial products
Rugludallur: Now, THAT would be nice.... No breakoutboard needed, just a 10/100/1000 switch and output from the pc ether port to each drive a la ehternet
[18:15:31] <robin_sz> http://apex2.apexauctions.com/java-auction/index.php?event=50102#
should I ??
I reckon ~5K should do it
JymmmmEMC: yeah, 100m/300ft and no problems getting shielded cabling/connectors
Rugludallur: Even PoE if you needed it.
robin_sz: you thinking about the laser ?
the laser is dead, but the punch looks nice
correction, the laser is VERY dead
someone decided to clean the heatexchangers
with central-heating cleaner
they are made of wafer-thin aluminium, it eat them away to some extent, when they brought the alser to full vacuum, it filled with water
any prizes for guessing what happens when water hits a turbo-molecular pump?
the service cost is typically £35k ... assuming the pump is servicable
so ... looking at that machine ... a laser/punch combination ...
lasers are delicate right?
and punches go BANG BANG BANG right?
how do you think they avoid the punch shaking the laser out of alignment?
when in laser mode, the laser sits on 3 spikes to align it precisely with the machine etc
suspend it with bungy cords!
when in punch mode, it inflates an air cushioin, lifting the laser clear of the spikes and isolating it from the vibration
even so, the clunking of it getting lifted on and off the spikes eventually pushes it out of alignment
1064mn @ 60W - etches anodized AL very good and fast ( 999mm/sec )
so does 40W
what you want me to lookup the wavelength chart?!?!?!
its an old beasty - but it still works (mostly)
Hey, better than what I have (nothing)
no - just listing the wave length of the laser crystal (Nd-YAg)
Ya coulda just said it was a YaG laser =)
not all the same
I don't think C)2 are in that bandwidth
terrible waste of power
208V 3ph in @ 22.5amps = 60W output at the lense
Yeah, but yag can cut metal, C)2 at the same power range, can't
OLD VME chassis running a Motorola 68000 @ 8MHz with 2Mb ram
60w of yag or co2 wont cut metal
cuts Very thin metal - less than .015"
never tried that thin
have used it to cut traces on PCB
cw or q switched?
* robin_sz assumes q switched
yeah - there was an error in a PCB file and they needed several traces cut - I wrote a program to cut the bridges that were causing the issues - was a lot of about 200
CW has no balls for cutting
errm ... my yag is cw
and it cuts 10mm nicely
yeah but how many watts?
but, yeah, q switched on thin stuff works nicely
oh, just 800
mine maxed out at 60W
probably 2kw pulses
some plastics love low freq
some plastics ignore YAG
Anodized AL likes 6-10KHz
Ive fired 800w into clear acryllic and had nothing happen
Wood ignores my YAg
I can cut wood, but its not neat compared to a CO2
Robin : here is a trick you can use
get a sheet of glass - space it about 1mm above a sheet of brass
laser engrave the brass
what does the glass do?
the brass vapor penetrates the glass leaving the brass gold lettering inside the glass
I suspect that only works with a q switched yag
yeah - true
$mate bought a holonium yag this week
4 cavities and a rotating mirror to combine the pulses in sequence
lasers now are more powerful - 1/2 the size and 1/3 the price for the same or better unit.
think we paid $129,000 in 1989 - it was bleeding edge technology then
now I can get a better machine for $29,000
" 4 cavities and a rotating mirror to combine the pulses in sequence " - Engineers on the hookah again!
I have enough trouble keeping 1 rod in optimal alignment.
Skullworks-PGAB: that brass/glass sounds very cool
I dont think we ver aligned the mirrors in ours
robin_sz: what ya saying... you bouncing the beam around the ROOM, then to the workpiece =)
but its all invar rods and precision rails
laser crystal aligned inside the cavity
the rod is not critical really,
its the mirrors
robin_sz: BTW, I searched around a year ago or so for medical surplus (laser) and the only real place I found was in San Diego. Not much of anything surplus in the Bay Area anymore.
but they are easy to align
ive done it on other lasers, I wouldnt say its easy
robin_sz: works on ebay too
well the way our rail is setup and the adjustments - vrs compressing the O-rings that hold the rod
you just adjust it for maximum output/
use a phosphr card - you get a circle in a circle - adjust until they appear concentric
or do you have some mode plates?
[19:34:31] <JymmmmEMC> http://pastebin.ca/570377
easy enough on a 60w laser, bit more fun on a 2kw CO2 where the lowest output power is around 200W
yeah - been a while since I've done it - I don't "offically" work there anymore. - but every time they blow a flash lamp or whatnot I get a call to come fix the machine.
we use firebricks :)
last call was a seized solenoid flow valve on the water to water intercooler
the temp sensor kicked off the laser power at about 160 deg F.
those water-water intercoolers are 1000s of dollars
we found better ones for 10s of dollars
spare heatexchangers for "combi" boilers (combined heating and hot water)
1/4 the size, twice the heat txfr capacity
[19:57:01] <Skullworks-PGAB> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luReqzQjEt8
robin_sz: did you see the token thing?
yeah, not particularly excited about it ... its only of any use to idiots I think
robin_sz: What you mean? It's a secureID token (OTP)
yes, but what use is it?
think for a moment what it is designed to do ...
robin_sz: It would prevent your paypal/ebay acocunts from being hijacked.
they arent "hijacked"
idiots, from time to time, click on emails and follow links to spoof sites.
they type in their username and pw
this thing will save them
robin_sz: My gf just got her ebay acocunt hijacked last month... tossed up under her account like 100 bogus ipod auctions
let me guess, she uses a dictionary word for her password, right?
robin_sz: Nope, that was the thing. Though hadn't been changed in a while.
she probably typed it in to a spoof site then
robin_sz: With all the crap going on these days with browsers and such, a token is pretty damn good.
well, its not a worry for me
I dont think Id want one
robin_sz: If you have a merchant account, it was free.
I still wouldnt want one, one more bit of crap to carry around
robin_sz: Yeah, that I understand. a literal keyring of fobs and such.
I ahve a couple for important stuff
ebay isnt important stuff
Not the ebay as much as the Paypal since it's linked to bank accounts.
I use different pw for ebay and paypal
* robin_sz bets jymms gf doesnt
they usually only post 100s of ipods if theyve cracked your paypal too
thats how they get the money out again
Nah, I've taught her well... just probably not 30 chars like mine.
robin_sz: Well, I'd thought I'd at least bass the info on. Though, some type of SIM card into a single token would be cooler I think.
but its just a sticking plaster
wow, nice to see rigid tapping!
robin_sz: I've ALWAYS liked OTP, way too many exploits, MITM, etc going on these days. I just wished the banks did something like it.
robin_sz: Some, not all.
the two tokens I have are for banks
robin_sz: Heh, well the inverse of security is convienance.
SSL certs are a perfect answer
OTP is the BEST you can ever use.
anyone know what RS-422 is ?
same format, different signal levels
robin_sz: thanks, can I buy a dongle that I plug into the computer serial port that talks rs-422? how much?
dongle? like for a laptop?
PCMCIA would do
nope, it's a desktop. not neccessarily dongle but some converter anyway
what, from USB?
awallin, yes you can get covertors
Probably would be better using some PCI card if it has good driver support.
whatever is cheapest... ;) It's for controlling the spindle motor VFD
you can probaly not even use a convertor
if the run is short
yep, it would be about 2m. so just ground the other diff wire and connect the other to the RS232 signal?
rs422 is diferential, 232 isnt
maybe I'll try that first.
has anyone played around with the serial HAL component?
on the 422->232 side, dont bother grounding the spare 422 output wire
awallin, in theory, ity wont work, the voltage levels are all worng
in practice it oftne does, because the circuits dont always stick to the standard
rs232 is supposed to need a minimum of +3v for a 1 and -3V for a 0, in practice 0 and +5V usually work just fine
[20:43:59] <anonimasu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-Qc6RcbsRM&mode=related&search=
listen and learn :D
03swpadnos 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/comp.g: from jepler: fix various problems with error reporting
awallin: I have seen a 422 input draw current when fed 232 voltage levels. Couldn't tell whether it would hurt the 422 receiver chip (no schematic of the internals). Used a bias voltage and resistive divider to keep the inputs between 0 and +5v.
jtr: I think the VFD has an optional 422 to 232 converter. I just have to find out what it costs. If it's not too expensive I'll get the proper converter
As a price point, sealevel systems has DIN rail converters $139 - $159 US. Ugly URL: http://www.sealevel.com/subcategories.asp?subcat_id=102&Sealevel%5FAsynchronous%5FSerial%5FInterface%5FConverters%5F+
Automation Direct has converters $69 - $99US http://web4.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Communication_Products/Serial
" anonimasu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-Qc6RcbsRM&mode=related&search=
" That vid was an operator trying to beat a machine into submission.
Yaaaaah! the reversable fan and window AC will fit! woohoo!!!!
Skullworks-PGAB: do you mean my machine shouldnt sound like that?
Hmmm, haven't seen the guys on webcam for a while.... did they head home already?
no - machine should kinda hum.
that was brutal
Skullworks-PGAB: Im just shitting you..
if I turn the scale down, I can make mine sounds like a casio kybd =)
03swpadnos 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/components/updown.comp: New component: updown.comp - an up/down counter with limits and optional wrapping
I don't know much about music, but I wonder if I change the scale on each axis, if I could get different octaves ???
If the cops had not stole my Sony camcorder I'd make so vids to scare people
Skullworks-PGAB: thats what happens when you sneak into the girls shower room
03compile-farm 07BDI-4.51 (126.96.36.199-rtai) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot6_log.txt
Man, I feel I haven't been productive at all this weekend (today is my Monday). *sigh*
hmm I hear real thunder
not just a V22 taking off
good thing I tarped the machine create.
03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (breezy) realtime (2.6.12-magma) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot2_log.txt
Skullworks-PGAB: and you used a silver tarp, not one of those blue ones.
blue - it was new and only has to last till 9am tomorrow
Skullworks-PGAB: you at fest?
my machine was delivered thurs night
03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (breezy) non-realtime (2.6.12-10-386) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot1_log.txt
ds2: Did you ever get a chance to dig out those cases were were talking about?
03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (dapper) realtime (2.6.15-magma) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot7_log.txt
Skullworks-PGAB: Oh, what ya goet?
but I won't be able to uncrate it until sunday morning
Got an IH mill with 3axis glass scales DRO and power table feed
oh cool... got pic url?
sure - 1 sec
[21:39:26] <Skullworks-PGAB> http://www.industrialhobbies.com/Products/square_column_mill_2.htm
Skullworks-PGAB: what was the total damage?
well I got all the extras
include them too
3 axis DRO - the mini digital for the quill, base stand, power table feed
$1800 for the mill (sale special), $400 shipping, 3 axis DRO + power table feed combo was $1200, base was $200.
so basically $4k
for christmas I'm getting the 3hp 3400rpm 3ph motor with CNC controlable VFD
have you started looking into converting it over to cnc?
I guess - I sent him a check upfront to lock in the sale price - then added options later via credit card
they sell them fully CNC
but that's what you bought, correct?
so I never bothered adding the cost up
but that's NOT what you bought, correct?
yeah - no CNC gear yet
cna I ask why not?
at least the mounts and motors if nothing else.
I'm doing my SEIG - X3 CNC conversion - and will keep the big mill manual for now
will you go servo or stepper eventually?
I'm not fond of 2 things in the IH cnc conversion
real servo if I do the IH
planning on going servo on the X3 too - but might try steppers for fun.
the table is huge =)
first - lexan covers on the servo belt drive
(lexan can get eatin by many tapping fuilds
2nd rolled screws and (IMHO) crappy ball nuts.
hmmm, they removed the manual handles too it looks like
I would rather spend more and get Hiwin or ABBA precision rolled screws with 4 circuit ballnuts with good neoprene wiper seals
Yeah, if you're investing that much, might as well get the screws right the first time.
I ddint know ABBA made screws, just rails.
yeap - and the far end of the screw is unsupported for Y / Z axis :(
what the.... nm
yeah they do - just don't have many dealers stocking them
they make nice screws
I *THINK* I might have .005" backlash on mine, won't know for a while. Didn't think I had any at all before. Will test later when I get everything setup after I finish rebuilding the controller box.
might be .0005" shrug
it's a bitch when everything is aluminum =)
I could be very happy with .0005"
I dont know if you saw the post I gave earlier, not sure about that breakout board or not now.
on the image to gcode....
what is lace bounding?
where do you see that Ziegler?
second option from the bottom in the filter included with axis
options are "none, secondary, full"
DOH! I'm on the wrong machine to look =(
[21:59:54] <Ziegler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/gui/image-to-gcode/index.html
found it :)
=) Yeah, still doens't make sense to *ME*, but that's okey too =)
03swpadnos 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/components/updown.comp:
Actually use some of the initialization features of comp, fix "MAXINT" undefined
Ziegler: I have had trouble explaining that clearly. If you're not sure what the option means, the best choice is probably "none", this means that no areas will be skipped
I think I understand
Whew... I thought it was just me =)
dont think I can explain tho
I have never actually milled with it set to anything but "none", but <Lernaen_Hydra> said it was an important feature
seems like an optimization
lerneaen_hydra: Speak up!!!
with a vee cutter
what do you input for tool diam?
or does it even matter?
Ziegler: if you're not going to actually cut anything away, it's best not to drag the tip of the tool lightly along what would be the finished part .. I think that's the theory anyway
03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (breezy) non-realtime (2.6.12-10-386) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
which feature were we talking about?
lerneaen_hydra: Can you explains to all the boys and grils out that what "lace bounding" is?
lerneaen_hydra: lace bounding in mage-to-gcode
hi, I'm trying to understand how the AXIS GUI works, but I'm having some troublebecause much of the Python/EMC interface hinges on a variable "c," which has thus far been resistant to greps. What I want to know is: how is "c" declared?
03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (dapper) realtime (2.6.15-magma) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
hmm lace bounding, which feature was that? I don't recall that name
% grep '^c =' emc2.head/bin/axis
c = emc.command()
[22:04:27] <Ziegler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/gui/image-to-gcode/index.html
03compile-farm 07BDI-4.51 (188.8.131.52-rtai) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
jepler: Is it safe to assume that the resulting gcode is raster?
* lerneaen_hydra is tired and negations are confusing
so say you set it to full, it should jump over highly angled bits on the first pass and take them on the second, right?
so you get cutting lines that are perpendicular to the tilt of the workpeice rather than paralell to it
03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (breezy) realtime (2.6.12-magma) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
jepler: that's the current functionality, right?
lerneaen_hydra: yes, except it's un- to lightly tested
if you set it to none and have lots of high-angle areas you 1) get bad surface finish (high cusp hieght) 2) need to pass that area again anyway, perp, and waste time cutting there the first time, and possibly harden the material by taking next to nothing off it
aesthetically full looks nicer (IMO)
they seem to have gotten the tool changer into a bad state
it dropped a tool onto the table
I have not been paying full attention but this has been ongoing for some time and I'm not sure how it started
that was the first tool dropped though
was it spinning?
it can't spin during a tool change luckily
oh so it dropped it during a tool change
not just completely randomly
not as disasterous
something forced them to restart emc while "slot 0" was not loaded -- "slot 0" denotes no tool
the rest has been an exercise in trying to get all the tools into the correct spot on the carousel and the right tool number showing as loaded in emc
ah, yes that's always a real pita
"it's like a shell game"
could be worse - on some of the new Hurco mills there is no access to the ATC magazine - load and unload tools from the spindle.
oh, btw, is there any way* to make emc either autoprobe after doing a tool change to find the tool's z offset (in a mill) or allow manual jogging and then a define of tool length? *without dividing a program into several parts, one per tool
jepler: are you still coding new things for image-to-gcode?
anonimasu: when you ordered geckos, how long did shipping take, how much did it cost, and did you have to pay any toll fee?
not much really
lerneaen_hydra: I added a bit here at fest but haven't checked it in
lerneaen_hydra: I added roughing passes (that's in CVS) and here I added doing roughing passes alternating from X to Y
jepler: ah, ok, would it be trivial to add arbitrary angled V cutters?
roughing, like waterlineing?
so it does everything down to a certain depth, then a bit deeper etc etc, then does a finishing cut?
lerneaen_hydra: right -- you enter the distance down per pass, and the distance off the final part
lerneaen_hydra: you have a need for arbitrary vees?
jepler: no, not really, just thinking that if it's just a hardcoded value it might be nice to have acsess to it
but right now you have to do it with the same tool and stepover so that limits the usefulness
oh, I see
03swpadnos 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/meter.c: Fix bug that prevented selection of probe item until a tab was selected
lerneaen_hydra: 3 weeks.. it cost as advertised on the site + toll
lerneaen_hydra: did that help?
ah, I was thinking shipping cost
how much was toll?
25% of everything I think
moms/tax is 25% on most stuff
[22:33:30] <anonimasu> http://www.konsumentverket.se/mallar/sv/artikel.asp?lngCategoryId=855&lngArticleId=1930
that's sucky :/
try buying servodrives in sweden ;)
or stepper drives :D
how much for a gecko here?
there are other drives..
but they are expensive..
or something like that
geckos are worth it imo..
jepler: watcha all doing on the fest cam?
rigid tapping with emc2 on the mazak
where is it?
with multible tool changes. There is going to be a video
[22:39:44] <Ziegler> http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/festcam.shtml
I am the one on your right
at the portable
only one typing at a computer
I would wave but i would have to wave for a minuted
I would have liked to come today...
ran out of time
im only about 20 minutes from galesburg
I am about 5 hours
how many years has the swap meet been going on?
ooh did something happen?
lots of people at the mazak looking in through the windows :)
mainly because roland said he would host it here at cadinal engineering
big turn out every year?
more than last year - but today was slower than last.
pretty much only the emc guys left
well I got my first machine "finished" on thursday... but I am a bit disappointed with its performance so far. EMC is doing just fine tho :-)
whats up JymmmmEMC
not happy with performance?
very happy with EMC performance
just not with my machine
too much flex
I should have started much smaller
I have learned alot tho... so all is not lost
Ziegler: got pics?
03swpadnos 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/components/select8.comp:
New component: select8
Selects one of eight bit outputs depending on the sel input
SWPadnos: bitwise to the rescue!!! =)
well, it's time to pack the switch, so bye bye!
Uh oh... I see cleaning up
bubye Fest 2007
hmmm. maybe I'll leave this one on for a few minutes
I suspect the cam is goin next
(fans last of course =)
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