jmkasunich_ is now known as jmkasunich
Damn, thought I'd feel better after that.
what are your guys thoughts on how a jog button should work in incremental mode?
should you have to hold the button pressed until the move finishes?
or should the move finish even if you let it go?
but, not a bad idea.
you don't think it's a safety issue?
user option maybe?
if the inc is .01" not so much
I was thining maybe the increment was too large, and you're thinking oh shit, I'm going to hit the fixture or something like that
hmm, loosing .01" of your finger is .01" too much
petev: will it repeat if I hold the button down?
so if I want to move .03" I cna't hit the button three times huh?
yes, you press it 3 times, but holding it down would not auto-repeat
No, I dind't mean press and hold, press and hold, press and hold.
I meant press press press HOLD on the final
petev: I believe all the current user interfaces allow you to release the button during the remainder of an incremental jog, no matter how much is left
oh, I guess that could be done, but it would require some type of timer and could not stop the move immediately when you released the button
jepler, it does, but I was thinking that might not be the safest thing
petev: Well, I like both options actually. If it was a LARGE move, then press and hold makes sense, if I'm trying to nudge into place a press and release works too.
yeah, I hear what your saying
what about if it's a LARGE move the press and hald works, if it's a small move than tap tap tap works
I think it's up to each user interface to decide whether to offer one behavior, the other, or make it a preference
in practice I only use the very small increments (e.g., 0.01inch and smaller) so I would not have time to exercise my "oh shit" reflex anyway
Jymmm, that could be done, or it could be a preference from the INI file
petev: I'm asuming here that the move is not at 4000 IPS either =)
a GUI that offers a 1 inch incremental jog is probably not giving any value to its user
maybe 1" or large jogs are best left to MDI mode, but they do have value
petev: Well 1" tap tap tap would be three inches if ever needed. that's kinda how my cruise control works, one press for every inc/dec MPH
petev: will you tell me about a situation where you find long (e.g., 1") incremental jogs useful?
jepler: I've had that
if you don't want to loose position with continuous mode when needing to move a certain relative distance
but mdi mode is ok for this too, just a little more effort
jepler: when I've wanted to run a proggy real quick and run it on multiple moutned workpiece 2" over.
I'd be mad if I moved less than my incr distance and lost position, just because I didn't hold the key quite long enough
cradek: Hmmm, didn't think of that. I'd be too.
cradek, I would be more mad though if I broke my carbide endmill on a clamp
I do sympathize with the "oh shit that increment was larger than I wanted" though
I'm not sure what's best
petev: user option?
well a jogwheel is best
a wheel is nice
NUMPAD FTW!!! LOL
right now, I think you can hit escape and stop an incr jog (if you have time)
but you won't have time...
oh that's right, emc doens't have to have jog "enabled"
under TCNC you had to be on the correct screen to jog.
then cradek's cat can't run across the kybd and crash the tool into the workpiece =)
that's why there's a door on this room
or cradek can't run across the kybd and crash the tool into the workpiece =)
petev: yeah I see your position but I imagine myself using mdi
(I'd set incremental distance mode, mdi over the desired amount, and then forget to set absolute distance mode .. my "oh shit" would come at a later moment)
I've definitely incremental-jogged into the table/work before
now, I'm very careful to always check the increments
what if the screen changed colors depending on what mode
cradek: now that axis lets you choose the units available, have you?
I've never changed them
you're no power user
no, I never hooked them to the jogwheel either
btw I think I want to let external buttons set axis's idea of the "current axis" for jogging
because a minute ago I wanted the "click in" on my jogwheel to let me swap between jogging X and Z
I haven't figured out all the details -- certainly the external button has to be something momentary..
X---Y---Z---Back to the beginning
maybe jogwheel + vcp to show the jogwheel's axis is better
That's how my radio does it to switch baack and fourth between bands.
the existing jogwheel logic supports external button axis select
except it does a high or low beep too so you dont have to look at the dispaly and start transmitting on the wrong thing.
just turn on the appropriate enable bit
jmkasunich: yes indeed
but you are talking about changing axis's axis ;-)
set incremental to 0.001, click click click X, the change to Y, click, click click some more?
CLICK_HOLD and TURN to change increments
I guess I'm not sure whether this would be useful or gimmicky
increments should NOT change easily
don't think it can't be both
my brainstorm was certainly "I imagine this gimmick" not "this would actually be useful"
jmkasunich: that's why it's CLICK AND HOLD
if you have a physical button next to your physical jogwheel, might as well just use that button to change the increment
I've found that I don't need to change the increments
maybe if I often cared about < .001, I would
of you are talking about a USB funny thing that is sort-of a jogwheel, and has 8 buttons around it, ditto - use one of them to set 0.001, one to set 0.01, one to set X active, one for Y, etc
but even .001/click, I can jog it at a good clip pretty easily
right - thats the whold point of a jogwheel - wheels have enormous dynamic range
Jymmm: why Ew?
its a machine, not a PC, doing everything with one button is a royal pain in the rear
jmkasunich: No no, not a mac mouse (so to speak) but the one button per axis thing.
Eh, it's what folks are used to is all.
re 1" jog increment: today installed machine and had a guy laser it. He used 1" jogs and a renishaw laser to record leadscrew errs in X Y & Z. Then we mounted a 3R (tm) Refix plate and measured it's 100mm ctr to ctr holes using 100mm jogs. So large jogs are useful, tho rare.
real machines have one button per axis with a light in the active one
Butm the ability to let a user define what they want would be pretty cool.
jmkasunich: hey, did you have a url for the usb thingy you were talking about. or do you mean that fancy doohicky usually used for AV stuff?
jepler is the one who mentioned using a usb thingy, dunno if he has the AV thing or something else
I was referring to whatever he has, but thinking of the AV thing
Ah, no biggy. I'm still planning on using my numpad for a while still.
i'm using a wireless joypad
much closer to being done with my machine!
[03:33:25] <Ziegler> http://images.myonlinesite.com/cnc/index.php
see very bottom link
actually here: http://images.myonlinesite.com/cnc/construct/20070606/3axis.jpg
what will the spindle be?
hehe... not completely sure yet
I have my eye on a few trim routers
but I also have a machine spindle at the shop I could try
any... off to sleep I go
DusanC is now known as dusanc
Hi. DOes anybody know how could I setup adaptive control with EMC@?
Something like arc sensing, and using it to control arc height for plasma cutter.
[11:27:35] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Torch_Height_Control
I think this information may be a little out of date
Dallur, who is often on irc, has made an advanced torch control setup
I think you can find it in the sample configurations: dallur-thc
Looking at it now.
It works like setting Z height and then controlling the height with ladder? Right?
sorry I haven't studied it to know the details
I have to get ready for work, stay around and maybe you can talk to him later
I have a college assigment to design a 3axis plasma table and 5 axis welding robot, and I plan to use EMC2
Now do you think that I could make seam finding with trough the arc sensing easily with emc2?
i know how to do it with ladder, but the robot has to move and not to have any fixed axis
DusanC__ is now known as DusanC2
Sorry I have bad connection. I'll try later.
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/scripts/emc-environment.in: LD_LIBRARY_PATH is necessary on my amd64 machine, otherwise python's emcmodule doesn't find libemchal.so
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/scripts/runtests: at exit, print the name of any test that failed
Guest900 is now known as skunkworks_
Alex are you there?
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/hal_lib.c: on 64-bit machines, give 8-byte alignment for stuff in hal shared memory when appropriate
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/libnml/buffer/tcpmem.cc: fix warnings on 64-bit systems
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/usrmot.c: fix warnings on 64-bit systems
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: fix warnings on 64-bit systems
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/ (arrays.c classicladder_gtk.c symbols_gtk.c): fix warnings on 64-bit systems
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/ (hal_motenc.c hal_vti.c): fix warnings on 64-bit systems
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/user_comps/devices/hal_joystick.c: fix warnings on 64-bit systems
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/ (halrmt.c scope_horiz.c scope_vert.c): fix warnings on 64-bit systems
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: oops, did not mean to commit this -- revert to rev 1.100
[14:51:15] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=306129#post306129
Hi. I have some questions about EMC2 and adaptive control. Can anyone help?
A problem for my master work: 5 axis weld robot
3 axis gantry + 2 rot
I need to make through the arc seam tracking
Measuring arc current ant based on that deciding how to change path
i looked at ladder but I don't know how to make corrections while the robot travels down the programmed path
Ofcourse I choose EMC2. Any ideas?
path corrections would be difficult, I think
offtopic=> I may suddenly go offline because of lousy connection
you can certainly change speed easily
The idea is that robot should follow not so quality manufactured seam
with HAL, you can add in an offset to the comanded position from the motion controller (in fact, I think the motion controller may have an offset input now)
SWPadnos: no, I don't think it does
ok. I thought that was added. I guess it was just discussed
there is a component called "offset" which may be useful for applying an offset that emc doesn't see
so if you have the hardware to measure arc current, and can write a HAL component to calculate the correct offsets, they can be added in HAL
It should have some weave pattern he should follow and should modify the amplitude of the weave based on the avg. current.
HW to measure should go through motenc's ADC
Missed that offset talk because of reconnection
10:19:29 <jepler> there is a component called "offset" which may be useful for applying an offset that emc doesn't see
But can it work in 3D RT?
i mean translating through space simultanously?
or is it per axis?
you use one per axis
one per joint
right - per joint :)
unfortunately the outputs are all in joint space, so an operation like "move one inch in X" is tough to do
It would have to move in space. So some vector would have to be the input
And could the weave pattern be added as some subfunction of G-code? Or it should be postprocessors work?
could you point me to the reference of that joint "offset" in html documentation?
[15:41:33] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/man/man9/offset.9.html
Currently reading it but just can't find it
that component continually computes 'out' and 'fb_out': out = in + offset; fb_out = fb_in - offset
ahh. I looked at the higher level :)
so you can place it between emc's motor position commands (e.g., axis.0.motor-pos-cmd) and the pid that controls your servo; and the feedback goes between the encoder that gets feedback from your servos, and axis.0.motor-pos-fb
But that would change the speed, not position, correct?
"offset" comes from the component you must write, which computes the desired weave shape
Ok. Got it now.
for instance, if you hook offset to siggen.0.sine, you would get a 1 motor unit sine wave applied to the position that emc finds from the gcode
The problem is that it has to move like sine but in space and not per joint.
So i would have to have some thread that would recalculate the correct "offset" values for every joint?
Very fast thread :)
why can't this sine shape be in gcode? does it have to change dynamically?
10:19:42 <DusanC2_> It should have some weave pattern he should follow and should modify the amplitude of the weave based on the avg. current.
Jepler is correct
Well it should modify the average position and the amplitude :)
* ds2 pours birdseed
is there anyone who has access (and can modify the content) to the linuxcnc.org website?
xemet, yes, yes there are
robin, do you can?
* ds2 does an improper gear change on a bridgeport gear and and leaves it running ;)
i really would like a GOOD manual/cnc.
goodbye gear changes, hello "s1000 m3"
well i'd also like to do other neat CNC stuff with the one-off ease of a manual machine
i hear some of the cincinati hydrotel mills have a cnc tracer
which would probably be the ultimate in both cnc and in manual control
MDI mode =)
it's not quite the same
i'd like to have some feed buttons with macros on them
so i can reprogram the buttons to do things like feed at a certain rate to a predetermined stop
things like that
keyboard macro + MDI
[21:12:56] <skunkworks_> http://sourceforge.net/projects/stellarium/
controlls my telescope. pretty cool
ds2: i think if i hooked a couple extra buttons, like a mcdonalds-style cash register keyboard, plus some levers/knobs/dials
that i could improv a decent interface
also i did some investigation and found out why saws cost 30k
for an automatic
gears made of solid gold? ;)
the rigidity to handle 15 hp cuts
plus the bearings to saw all day long
then you get into features - controllable saw pressure and head approach
15HP cuts?! Hmmm
automatic part gauging, rapid stops
three way vices
for bundle cutting
infeed and outfeed tables
the columns that support the sawhead
coolant and cooling for the motor
plus all the different modes the saw can run in
like, these saws will run 2 tpi blades
and can run them on thin walled parts
sounds like I can use it to make thin slices of an entire car?
if you had a 20"x20" car
the saw at work is like 10"x10"
it's a nice saw
a pleasure to use
the high power just means you can really put the pressure on
it goes through large rounds pretty quickly, a couple seconds where the saw i use in college takes many minutes
but you can only vary the head approach on that saw, you don't have pressure control or high horsepower
ah... sounds like itwould be great for the tougher stuff like Stainless
yes, it does cut stainless
does cut and great are two different things... a cold chisel will cut stainless
well, when i say "it does cut it"
i'm coming at it from a production/manufacturing standpoint
so i do mean it does an amazing job
hmm that sounded more arrogant than i intended
it goes through stainless/tool steel very nicely
not as fast as it will go through aluminum/copper
but definitely a product tool (vs a protoshop tool)?
it's a production tool
but it's just as easily used for single cuts
i would prefer using a production saw for single cuts versus a manual saw
because the production saw usually has great features, even for doing one or two parts
you can do a little skim cut off the face, then cut to +/- .005
but at 30K, it'd take a lot cuts per day to make the price per cut reasonably
it just takes some looking to find an inexpensive automatic saw
it may need minor work, but i have been able to find autos for around 4-5k
think there is also the problem of training people to use it
it's much simpler than a milling machine, but yes
seems that the saw at the school gets beaten to death cuz people donno how to use the hydraulic feed (they open it up 100%)
the saw is just a peice of crap at school
it's gravity fed
with a hydraulic damper
it's got no power, and is made of sheet metal instead of cast iron
ours can be slowed/adjusted with a hydraulic valve
yeah, that's what i'm calling gravity feed
what do you call the import ones that just have return spring?
versus hydraulic saws which use hydraulic power to actualy feed the sawhead down
but it isn't adjustable.
adjustable vs. fixed gravity saw
there are some very nice gravity saws, though
my old school had a good gravity saw
easy to use, had a lot of weight in the head
was the speed adjustable and did people know how to adjust it?
that was the only knob it had
the whole thing is thin sheet metal, no infeed/outfeed table
the vise is shitty
oh lucky... ours was a pulley/belt change. lots of students didn't bother
oh, speed of the BLADE
yeah, ours has a belt
it's set to a low speed so nobody burns the blade up
but since it doesn't have a seperate pressure adjustment
we can't use big blades
it's just an iffy unit in general.
i suppose i could add weights
but it beats hacksaws =)
aww hells yeah
unless it's an AUTOMATIC hacksaw!
yeah, they make power hacksaws
so it is a hacksaw with the handle attached to a motor?
they're popular with the home shop crowd
inexpensive, and they've got production features
and the blades are cheaper
as i recall, which could be wrong
but you can get an import bandsaw for $50...
right, but those suck
i guess that's relative
i will rephrase
in what way? I got one of those and it beats hacksawing (no feed/table/vise but otherwise usesable)
i would never be happy with a 50 dollar bandsaw
i push machine tools hard and have expectations for features
ever heard of Harbor Frieght? now there is one store FULL of junk tools.......
like, if i was gentler on tools
or was into a specific hobby
HF should be consider a store for kit tools... buythem, ripe them apart and rebuild
i'm sure i'd do great with import stuff
they have a sawzall for 17 bucks....but we went thru three of them on one job....
it would be cool to build a hydraulic sawzall
wouldn't it be kinda heavy?
controllable blade speed, high power
sign me up
or an air saw, that might be better
harbor freight is fun to walk though
but work will pay for half the price of any tool
that is work related
i'm thinking about buying some dust/water sealed digital micrometers
people have been giving the digital mics some good reviews
i think it's 600 bucks for a 0-4 set
digital as in electronic ?
they direct read to .0001
no more verniers
're actually in .00005 increments
the mitutoyo ones are tempting
they're 800 bucks for a 0-4 set on msc though
I am just interested in the 0-1
then tell me how you like it =)
never seem to use anything bigger then the 2-3" one and even that is rare
heh... there is Fowler one for like $30 cheaper.. so can't decide
my co-workers don't like fowler
haven't used them enough to form an opinion though
in accurate or ?
the word on the street
is that they're accurate if you can get them to work right
I'd expect them to be a big step up from the no-name venier import mics
but the feel is off and makes getting a good measurement time consuming
the digitial stuff is harder to get right
like, they are a step up in the mechanical equipment
*nod* but one really needs at least one good measuring tool
yeah, but i would go for mitutoyo or SPI or something
for that tool
you make money with that tool... for hobby types, that's a harder choice
if i were hobby, i would go mechanical
just because i can get a better tool per dollar
but aren't they less accurate? mechanical is graduated in 0.0001 which means it is really good to 0.0002 (+/- smallest division)
nah, mechanical mics are just as accurate
you can read .00005 on them
on a good mic
the lines are set up so that for .00005, instead of having one of the vernier gradiuations line up
two lines fall in between to of the other markings
but again, that is only on a good tool
good and import don't mix :(
well, you can get luckly
the other thing is the fowler includes an rs232 interface
i wish i had the links, but some specific importers get tools on par with mitutoyo/etc
most digital mics have an SPC interface
of some kind
but you could always TRY the fowler
and see how you like it
maybe get the return policy?
no returns, AFAIK
www.victornet.net I think
they are legit, I've gotten weird tools from them at reasonable prices (like a 10-40 tap)
look on mscdirect.com
[22:46:44] <toastydeath> http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPAGE?PMPAGE=/custsupp/returns.html
there's the return policy for them
I've seen MSC but they cost more for a return policy
i dunno, you kind of need a return policy for measurement stuff
sometimes you get a dud tool
they will swap out DOA's but no buy it, try it, and return it thing
no store credit?
don't think so
i couldn't do it =(
you're going to have the mic for a real long time
besides, mail order... you can get eatten alive with shipping charges
i prefer to be able to see it in person before buying instead of a return option
we don't have any place that sells good gear around here
they all seem to be mail order