#emc | Logs for 2007-05-23

[00:34:59] <JymmmEMC> Quiet in here today
[00:35:18] <SWPadnos> shhhhh
[00:35:32] <JymmmEMC> Are we hunting wabbbbits?
[00:36:47] <SWPadnos> are you cwazy?
[00:37:07] <SWPadnos> wabbits are fewocious beasts
[00:38:05] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: http://www.google.com/intl/xx-elmer/
[00:38:29] <SWPadnos> http://www.rinkworks.com/dialect/
[00:39:32] <JymmmEMC> ping
[00:40:12] <SWPadnos> what's really fun is to go up one directory level, when it's set to elmer fudd mode
[00:40:24] <SWPadnos> then you get languages like Wussian and Womanian
[00:40:30] <JymmmEMC> he
[00:40:39] <JymmmEMC> love the redneck!
[00:40:42] <SWPadnos> and Wapanese
[00:40:49] <SWPadnos> yeah, Rinkworks is great
[00:41:00] <SWPadnos> check out the Book-a-minute and movie-a-minute reviews ;)
[01:15:36] <jepler> I'm adding "roughing passes" to image-to-gcode, and I need to figure out the proper names for the new values I need for roughing passes.
[01:16:02] <jepler> The two pieces of information are: the additional depth that can be cut during each rouging pass, and the minimum amount of material that should be left for the final pass
[01:16:36] <jmkasunich> "roughing depth" and "finishing depth" ?
[01:32:27] <cradek> next time, I will start with a box twice as big as I think I'll need
[01:32:48] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:33:03] <SWPadnos> I have one that might be big enough, so I'm looking for a bigger one before I start
[01:33:17] <cradek> yeah I recommend that
[01:33:23] <SWPadnos> and I'm already assuming that the VFD will be in a separate box
[01:33:32] <SWPadnos> and the computer
[01:34:38] <jmkasunich> cradek: do you need a press to put the cover on the box?
[01:35:23] <jmkasunich> I'm sure Roland would let you use one if his
[01:35:52] <cradek> with a little consideration, I bet you could think of the similar rule for cutting wires to the length you'll need
[01:35:56] <SWPadnos> he might even give you one
[01:37:55] <jepler> hm I was about ready to check this in but I spotted a bug
[01:38:09] <jepler> I guess that's better than letting someone else "spot" the bug based on the tool they just snapped off...
[01:38:38] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/i2g-bug.png
[01:39:11] <SWPadnos> hmm. perhaps it should do the upper layers first ...
[01:40:03] <cradek> * cradek gleefully moves the spindle override control
[01:42:10] <cradek> jepler: I don't really understand your picture, but the highlighted diagonal doesn't seem right
[01:42:30] <jepler> cradek: it plunges directly into some semirandom part of pass n+1 after it finishes pass n
[01:42:42] <cradek> oops
[01:43:19] <jepler> well, I'm not saying it's not deterministic
[01:43:58] <jmkasunich> right - hence the semi-random
[01:47:09] <jepler> now I think it might be right... http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/i2g-roughing.png
[01:47:34] <jepler> roughing offset .1 inches; roughing depth per pass .5 inches
[01:47:56] <jmkasunich> if you actually have features that tall, it will still break tools, but thats not the program's fault
[01:48:03] <jmkasunich> s/features/vertical features/
[01:48:08] <jepler> oh sure this is not a shape for milling
[01:48:17] <jepler> it's a shape for seeing the effect of the roughing parameters
[01:50:51] <toastydeath> you won't break tools at .5 inches?
[01:51:03] <toastydeath> i mean unless you're using a teeny tiny endmill
[01:51:38] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: passing filter stderr on to the terminal lets folks like me see what a filter is doing as it runs
[01:51:39] <jmkasunich> the 0.5 inches isn't the issue - the programmer will set that suitable for the tool
[01:52:06] <jmkasunich> the issue is that if you have a 3" tall vertical feature, you'll rough your way down the at 0.5" per pass
[01:52:07] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: remove debugging print
[01:52:35] <jmkasunich> then the finish pass will try to remove the finish allowance from the entire height of the wall at once
[01:52:47] <jmkasunich> if the feature is tapered its a non-issue
[01:52:50] <toastydeath> what's the diameter of the endmill
[01:53:12] <jmkasunich> irrelevant at this point
[01:53:25] <toastydeath> why?
[01:53:35] <toastydeath> you can totally finish up a 3" face with a decent endmill
[01:53:36] <jmkasunich> because he's working on the path generation code
[01:53:42] <toastydeath> oh
[01:53:45] <SWPadnos> I think a 2" diameter x 8" LOC mill could deal with a 1" high finish cut ...
[01:54:09] <SWPadnos> but it is irrelevant at this point
[01:54:27] <jmkasunich> the kind of work that image-2-gcode will be used for is more likely to be done with a 1/4" (or smaller) ball end mill
[01:54:39] <SWPadnos> indeed it is :)
[01:55:37] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/image-to-gcode.py: roughing passes
[01:56:03] <Ziegler> speaking of image-to-gcode... I just got my license of bobCam pro art today
[01:56:23] <Ziegler> very neat-o program
[01:57:34] <jepler> does it generate gcode that's ready for emc?
[01:58:10] <Ziegler> sure does
[01:58:32] <Ito-Brazil> Hello ALL
[01:59:02] <Ito-Brazil> Do you guys know how use a hard drive with EMC2 on another computer?
[01:59:21] <Ito-Brazil> i mean... Startx will not work, right?
[01:59:36] <Ito-Brazil> what shoul i do to make the magic?
[01:59:39] <Ziegler> startx works for me
[01:59:50] <Ziegler> has it ever worked for you?
[01:59:58] <Ito-Brazil> putting the hard drive on annother PC ?
[02:00:06] <jepler> you need to "dpkg-reconfigure" the X server
[02:00:15] <Ziegler> ahhh I see
[02:00:27] <Ito-Brazil> I did not tryed yet, i am new onlinux (working to change that)
[02:01:11] <Ito-Brazil> oke dpkg-reconfigure put the ubuntu on the road then
[02:01:32] <Ito-Brazil> Thanks a lot, i will try right now
[02:03:01] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/image-to-gcode.py: make_tool_shape takes diameter, but roughing_offset is equivalent to a tool radius
[02:06:57] <Ziegler> any of you in illinois? Isnt there some cnc "swap meet" in Galesburg?
[02:07:22] <Ziegler> or.. did I miss it
[02:07:45] <jepler> Ziegler: it's in June
[02:07:47] <SWPadnos> June 11-17
[02:07:54] <SWPadnos> http://www.cnc-workshop.com/
[02:07:54] <jepler> SWPadnos: do you have the URL handy?
[02:07:57] <SWPadnos> yes
[02:08:01] <Ziegler> danke
[02:08:03] <SWPadnos> bitte
[02:08:13] <Ziegler> :P
[02:09:55] <SWPadnos> holy crap. NewEgg has specials with an Athlon64 X2 + 200GB hard drive + motherboard for $149.99 O_O
[02:10:13] <SWPadnos> even less if you want socket 754 or non-x2 A64
[02:10:30] <SWPadnos> http://promotions.newegg.com/AMD/040407/index.html
[02:10:54] <SWPadnos> I wonder if any of those would be good for EMC
[02:11:10] <Ziegler> woah
[02:11:13] <Ziegler> sure they would be
[02:11:23] <Ziegler> Im using a450 Mhz 64 MB ram
[02:11:38] <SWPadnos> hmm. I should get one or two for testing
[02:11:40] <Ziegler> im loosing some steps tho
[02:11:55] <SWPadnos> well, processor clock speed isn't the best way to determine latency
[02:12:00] <SWPadnos> s/determine/predict/
[02:12:16] <Ziegler> yeah I read the wiki
[02:12:39] <Ziegler> I dropped the base period lower than I should have
[02:12:55] <SWPadnos> low enough to freeze, or just get sluggish?
[02:13:26] <Ziegler> slugish
[02:13:39] <Ziegler> in manual jog mode...
[02:13:48] <Ziegler> I press a key.. and the lag is noticable
[02:14:01] <Ziegler> but acceptable for what I want to do
[02:14:02] <SWPadnos> then you should definitely increase the base period
[02:14:24] <SWPadnos> you may end up starving the userspace code (like the interpreter) if the system is very sluggish ...
[02:14:44] <Ziegler> What will that do?
[02:14:52] <Ziegler> pulse loss?
[02:15:19] <SWPadnos> no, it would cause the machine to stutter, as the motion controller (in RT) runs out of moves to perform
[02:15:26] <Ziegler> ah
[02:15:31] <SWPadnos> since the moves are provided by userspace code (afaik)
[02:16:19] <Ziegler> *sigh* I really just need to get a better computer
[02:16:34] <Ziegler> If I move the base_period to what it probably should be...
[02:16:44] <Ziegler> I cant run my steppers at there max physical speed
[02:17:04] <SWPadnos> well, that's one of the drawbacks of software step generation
[02:17:10] <Ziegler> yup
[02:17:35] <Ziegler> a bet a 1 ghz could easily keep up
[02:18:26] <Ziegler> I might try dropping from 1/8 stepping to 1/4 too... that might help a bit :P
[02:18:49] <SWPadnos> yes, it would be about twice as good ;)
[02:21:18] <Jymmm> <rimshot>
[02:21:31] <Ziegler> heh
[02:26:34] <cradek> what block is used for 'float += c'?
[02:27:34] <cradek> ah, scale
[02:27:53] <SWPadnos> sum?
[02:29:17] <cradek> if(s==0) out=0; else out = s * scale + offset
[02:29:36] <cradek> this is what I'm trying to do
[02:29:45] <cradek> (s is spindle speed)
[02:29:56] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[02:30:13] <cradek> if scale had an enable...
[02:30:15] <SWPadnos> comp + mux + scale
[02:30:25] <cradek> yeah, worse than I had hoped
[02:31:11] <SWPadnos> s <0.00001 ? 0 : scale * s + offset
[02:31:15] <SWPadnos> yep
[02:32:39] <cradek> duh, I'll use motion.spindle-fwd instead of s==0
[02:32:53] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:33:15] <SWPadnos> isn't there a spindle-on output?
[02:33:17] <cradek> my encoder noise problem goes away when the spindle motor power isn't plugged into the control box
[02:33:24] <SWPadnos> and -fwd / -rev
[02:33:30] <cradek> yes, all three
[02:33:36] <SWPadnos> hmmm - that's no good
[02:33:43] <cradek> what's not?
[02:33:48] <SWPadnos> the noise issue
[02:33:56] <cradek> no, it's great that it goes away
[02:34:04] <SWPadnos> well, that is a plus
[02:34:18] <cradek> I wish I had one of those split ferrites to put on the power cord
[02:34:27] <SWPadnos> oh - you can plug the spindle into another outlet and it works?
[02:34:32] <cradek> yes!
[02:34:38] <SWPadnos> ah, that is cool then :)
[02:34:43] <cradek> yeah very nice
[02:44:52] <Jymmm> ground loop
[02:45:33] <Jymmm> go brefoot and touch the spindle, if you get shocked, youfound the problem! LOL
[03:02:01] <jmkasunich> cradek: sounds like a line filter on the spindle drive would be a good thing
[03:02:28] <cradek> jmkasunich: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103222&cp=&sr=1&origkw=ferrite&kw=ferrite&parentPage=search
[03:02:50] <jmkasunich> $5.29? choke
[03:02:57] <cradek> choke, ha!
[03:03:05] <jmkasunich> pun unintended
[03:03:09] <jmkasunich> more like choke on the price
[03:03:19] <SWPadnos> like, gag me with a choke
[03:03:19] <cradek> the best kind of pun is the unintended one
[03:03:33] <jmkasunich> I scavenge those things, probalby have a dozen of various shapes and sizes
[03:03:44] <cradek> I found one, but it doesn't split
[03:03:49] <SWPadnos> cut open an old monitor cable ...
[03:03:58] <jmkasunich> but I'm not very impressed with their ability to deal with any but the very highest frequency noise
[03:04:10] <cradek> I need the split kind if it's not to be a huge pain
[03:04:38] <jmkasunich> how is the line cord connected to the spindle drive PCB inside the drive enclosure?
[03:04:42] <cradek> I'm definitely pleased that this makes it work
[03:05:00] <cradek> it's an SSR directly hooked to the pluto output
[03:05:14] <SWPadnos> line cord -> PCB ...
[03:05:23] <jmkasunich> line cord -> SSR -> pcb ?
[03:05:54] <Jymmm> line cord -> fuse -> Switch -> SSR -> PCB
[03:06:07] <cradek> the SSR output is hooked into the power to the back outlet using those crimp on connectors
[03:06:15] <cradek> yes, there's a switch and fuse first
[03:06:27] <jmkasunich> that is in your box
[03:06:28] <Jymmm> thyresistor?
[03:06:29] <cradek> the SSR input is hooked directly to a pluto dout
[03:06:30] <SWPadnos> ah - that's the output
[03:06:36] <cradek> yes in the driver box
[03:06:38] <jmkasunich> I was asking about the sherline box, where the actual drive is
[03:06:41] <Jymmm> rfi/emi filter?
[03:07:18] <cradek> oh in the sherline box, the power switch switches one side of the line, then spade lugs on the pcb
[03:07:26] <Jymmm> 10KW/A UPS ?
[03:07:42] <cradek> I'm aware I could remove the cord, but it's a big pain
[03:07:46] <jmkasunich> so unplug the spades, feed them thru the ferrite one at a time, and plug em back in
[03:07:57] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: quit making sense
[03:08:00] <cradek> yeah I agree that's the right way :-)
[03:08:09] <cradek> and I'd pay $5 to not do it that way
[03:08:26] <jmkasunich> the sherline box is that horrible to open up?
[03:08:38] <cradek> remember I crammed extra junk in it...
[03:08:41] <jmkasunich> here be dragons (and messy cramped wiring)
[03:08:46] <jmkasunich> the opto and such?
[03:08:55] <jmkasunich> or extra extra junk
[03:08:59] <cradek> and a connector
[03:09:22] <Jymmm> I've heard of grilled cheese in the VCR, but in the controller?
[03:09:32] <cradek> mmm grilled cheese
[03:09:33] <cradek> I'm hungry
[03:09:38] <jmkasunich> ok, lets think about this a bit....
[03:09:41] <Jymmm> sounds good doesn't it.
[03:10:00] <jmkasunich> we're assuming the noise is generated by the spindle drive, and is flowing backwards up the line cord
[03:10:09] <jmkasunich> how does it get into and disrupt the encoder signals
[03:10:24] <cradek> maybe through the SSR
[03:10:33] <jmkasunich> the encoder sigs go driect to the your driver box, right? nowhere near the sherline drive box?
[03:10:36] <cradek> maybe it's just proximity (it's cramped in there)
[03:10:42] <Jymmm> cradek: (charge pump?)
[03:11:17] <cradek> jmkasunich: they go a little close to the drive box
[03:11:27] <cradek> but that can't be the problem, since it goes away
[03:11:50] <jmkasunich> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/cnc/lathe/DSCN6296.JPG
[03:11:58] <jmkasunich> the fat cable has encoder sigs in it?
[03:12:05] <cradek> yes
[03:12:14] <jmkasunich> the black one goes to the spindle drive?
[03:12:21] <cradek> yes
[03:12:30] <jmkasunich> the fat one also has the axis motor leads?
[03:12:34] <cradek> yes
[03:12:42] <cradek> the one under the fat one is the parport cable
[03:12:47] <cradek> the pluto is attached directly to it
[03:12:57] <jmkasunich> so its not that your encoders are exceptionally sensitive, if so the axis motors would kill them
[03:12:59] <cradek> the SSR is right inside that "AUX 2" outlet
[03:13:18] <cradek> right, I have not seen a problem with the spindle off
[03:13:21] <jmkasunich> how hard would it be for you to post a pic of the inside of the box?
[03:13:44] <cradek> if it were earlier, or I was less hungry, it would not be bad
[03:13:54] <jmkasunich> ok, don't worry about it
[03:13:56] <cradek> I think I'll have a snack and go to bed early
[03:14:01] <cradek> I do appreciate your help though
[03:14:28] <jmkasunich> figuring out noise is one of my drive related skills - AC drives make it by the gallon
[03:14:42] <cradek> cool, it's black magic to me
[03:14:52] <jmkasunich> is the IEC connector that feeds power into the driver box filtered? (many are)
[03:15:02] <cradek> yes I think so
[03:15:37] <jmkasunich> how is the ground pin of the black (outgoing) AC outlet wired?
[03:15:46] <jmkasunich> direct and short to the ground of the incoming plug?
[03:16:12] <jmkasunich> ah, never mind
[03:16:17] <cradek> the grounds of all three plugs are tied directly together with a wire nut
[03:16:25] <cradek> also chassis I think
[03:16:26] <jmkasunich> I'll have to ask 100 questions, and you'll starve
[03:16:29] <cradek> haha
[03:16:34] <cradek> I'll take a photo later
[03:16:42] <cradek> or, just not plug it in there
[03:16:55] <cradek> I'm completely thrilled that it works
[03:16:56] <jmkasunich> a schematic of the inside of your box would be great, but I don't think you draw schematics do you?
[03:17:09] <cradek> nope, I never really do
[03:17:16] <jmkasunich> if you don't plug it in there, you don't get spindle on/off, right?
[03:17:17] <cradek> eagle forces me to do it for some stuff, but I grumble
[03:17:39] <cradek> with the scale/mux I just set up in hal, the pwm goes to zero when spindle is off, and it reliably stops
[03:17:58] <jmkasunich> I don't draw them up fancy or in CAD, but I'm very visually oriented - I sketch out even the simplest circuit
[03:17:59] <cradek> so the outward appearance is identical
[03:18:54] <jmkasunich> if nothing else, we can go on a noise hunt at the workshop
[03:19:03] <jmkasunich> I'm sure we can make it work right
[03:19:04] <SWPadnos> if the controller box gets disconnected, does the spindle take off or stay stopped?
[03:19:07] <cradek> that might be fun
[03:19:13] <cradek> SWPadnos: stops
[03:19:24] <SWPadnos> ok, that's a Good Thing (tm)
[03:19:32] <cradek> SWPadnos: it can't run, no matter what you do with the knobs on it, without that pwm
[03:19:41] <jmkasunich> that means when you unplug your added wire, the drive doesn't work anymore
[03:19:59] <cradek> that's right
[03:20:12] <cradek> and I don't really care - it's not a manual lathe
[03:20:17] <jmkasunich> or did you use one of those clever earphone plugs that connects the speaker when you unplug the phones?
[03:20:22] <cradek> nope
[03:20:24] <cradek> it's a barrel
[03:20:37] <jmkasunich> never mine, that wouldn't work anyway, no source of power for the opto LED
[03:20:56] <jmkasunich> barrel, like wall wart power?
[03:21:07] <cradek> yes
[03:21:27] <SWPadnos> some of those also have switches, but I'l lbet this one doesn't ;)
[03:23:13] <cradek> goodnight! (happy times are here again)
[03:23:25] <SWPadnos> night
[03:23:34] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[04:48:51] <chr0n1c> yo! .. does this thing work? (bitchx)
[04:48:56] <chr0n1c> hey i guess it does!
[04:51:43] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c decided not to do irc in a root terminal...
[04:51:48] <chr0n1c> :|
[04:59:01] <Jymmm> chr0n1c: Did you say something? We can't hear you.
[05:04:37] <chr0n1c> ummm.. no?
[05:05:02] <Jymmm> chr0n1c: Did you say something? We can't hear you.
[05:05:27] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c laughs uncontrolably
[05:05:51] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c thinks he is seeing double
[05:06:52] <Jymmm> chr0n1c: Did you say something? We can't hear you.
[05:07:24] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c just beat the computer 6:0 at battleship
[05:07:35] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c got bored with winning
[05:10:00] <chr0n1c> how's the machine coming along Jymmm?
[05:10:09] <Jymmm> no comment
[05:10:13] <chr0n1c> aww
[05:12:23] <chr0n1c> i'm buying motors soon for my second machine.. i can't decide how much oz/in is enough... there is a big range to choose from
[05:12:45] <ds2> start with 2000lb/in and go from there
[05:12:51] <chr0n1c> ** i'm not really limited to any size frame, i'm building the machine from scratch
[05:12:55] <Jymmm> 1,000,000,000,000,000,000lb/in
[05:13:21] <ds2> that's even better
[05:13:24] <chr0n1c> after a certain point i'm jsut wasting money...
[05:13:47] <chr0n1c> but.. i don' tknow where the point is really..
[05:13:57] <chr0n1c> trial and error i guess
[05:14:06] <Jymmm> 400?
[05:14:12] <ds2> it is a trade off between torque and speed
[05:14:20] <ds2> and they are usually inversely related
[05:14:24] <chr0n1c> 400 seems to be mid range
[05:14:32] <chr0n1c> i found some 870
[05:14:49] <chr0n1c> 870 oz/in for a reasonable price i think
[05:14:50] <ds2> are you talking steppers or servos?
[05:14:53] <chr0n1c> stepper
[05:15:23] <ds2> having feedback?
[05:15:46] <chr0n1c> not right away
[05:15:57] <chr0n1c> it will be an upgrade once it's working
[05:15:58] <ds2> speed might be your bigger concern
[05:16:21] <chr0n1c> more tourque = less speed with steppers?
[05:16:41] <ds2> more torque == heavier so it can be slower
[05:17:10] <ds2> and more mass might cause skipping problems at high speeds
[05:18:37] <chr0n1c> right on
[05:18:51] <ds2> SWPadnos may disagree but I think there was an article comparing more torque vs speed a while back (last year I think) in MEW
[05:21:59] <ds2> think the other factor is thetype of drive
[05:25:11] <Jymmm> Yeah you need a purple one
[05:28:45] <chr0n1c> red.. i have a redish-green drive
[05:30:58] <Jymmm> MUST have poca dots
[05:39:47] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c is compiling cvs trunk just to see if it works.. (on amd xp2400 with 1.5 g ram)
[05:42:34] <chr0n1c> which files are the top secret world domination maifest agenda hidden in?
[05:42:58] <Jymmm> man login
[05:43:00] <chr0n1c> oh.. didn't mean to type that!
[05:43:10] <chr0n1c> i let the cat out of the bag!
[05:45:42] <Jymmm> well, put it back in
[05:54:55] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c compiled in 8 minutes
[05:55:11] <Jymmm> * Jymmm decompiles chr0n1c
[05:55:19] <Jymmm> ...into itty bitty pieces
[05:55:25] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c says "OUCH!"
[06:14:56] <alex_joni> 8 minutes?
[06:15:05] <alex_joni> seems a bit much :D
[06:15:42] <alex_joni> a VM running on my laptop does it in 1.05 :P
[06:18:04] <chr0n1c> last new part w
[06:18:21] <chr0n1c> *last new part that went into this pc was 3 yrs ago
[06:19:02] <alex_joni> well.. this is a fairly new laptop :)
[06:19:15] <alex_joni> my home pc is athlon xp 1600+
[06:21:00] <alex_joni> 256MB ram
[06:21:04] <alex_joni> works wonders though :D
[06:24:44] <Jymmm> GB's Baby, GB's.... MB's of L2 Cache
[06:25:25] <alex_joni> what for?
[06:27:21] <Jymmm> ram
[06:28:13] <alex_joni> yeah, I got that..
[06:28:17] <alex_joni> but what for?
[06:28:35] <alex_joni> I prefer using sane apps :)
[06:41:18] <Jymmm> wuss
[06:41:27] <Jymmm> try photo/video editing
[06:41:59] <Jymmm> Hell, just try a large db
[12:54:09] <gene__> Good morning skunkworks
[12:54:24] <cnc_engineer123_> can we increase the step pulse rate greater than 50khz?
[12:55:06] <gene__> How fast is the inner loop now?
[12:59:48] <alex_joni> cnc_engineer123_: depends on the computer
[13:00:01] <alex_joni> I was running 75kHz once.. but that's really extreme
[13:00:22] <alex_joni> if you need high frequency I suggest you look at a UnivStep or similar board
[13:00:54] <gene__> Alex, what happened to M101? its "unknown m code used now...
[13:01:08] <alex_joni> http://pico-systems.com/univstep.html
[13:01:22] <alex_joni> gene__: you probably don't have the executable in the nc_files dir
[13:01:58] <gene__> its on the system, i found it in /usr/share/emc tree
[13:02:00] <jepler> at these short base_periods, you also have increased scheduling jitter so it becomes more difficult to ensure that the step waveform matches the timing requirements
[13:02:19] <gene__> should i move it & where?
[13:04:10] <alex_joni> gene__: inside your ini you have a PROGRAM_PATH or something like that
[13:04:31] <jepler> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UserDefinedMcodes
[13:04:37] <cnc_engineer123_> we have selected base period 20000ns on 1 Ghz PC, now if we decrease further base period the applications slows down
[13:04:37] <jepler> "When the interpreter reaches a line with a user-defined M-code, an external program is executed with two positional arguments: The values for the P- and Q- words. These external programs must be placed in the directory named in the ini file: [DISPLAY]PROGRAM_PREFIX, and have a name like "M101" (capital M)."
[13:04:52] <gene__> as in stepper_incch.ini?
[13:04:52] <alex_joni> PROGRAM_PREFIX =
[13:05:00] <jepler> this is the page linked from the g-code reference guide: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/gcode.html
[13:05:04] <gene__> ok, thanks
[13:05:05] <skunkworks> actually - I was playing with m101 a few weekends ago. I was getting the same thing. I have the m101 script in the nc_files didrectory
[13:05:19] <skunkworks> I figured I was doing something wrong
[13:05:28] <gene__> so am i
[13:05:56] <jepler> cnc_engineer123_: yes that sounds like a typical experience.
[13:06:16] <cnc_engineer123_> What should be the speed of computer, to get that 75khz pulse rate.
[13:06:18] <alex_joni> cnc_engineer123_: I was using an 1.4GHz Athlon, and it went down to 7500ns, but I didn't try to run steppers at that rate
[13:06:19] <jepler> cnc_engineer123_: perhaps you need to adjust your expectations for software step generation.
[13:06:39] <alex_joni> cnc_engineer123_: I wouldn't expect them to run smoothly
[13:07:19] <alex_joni> cnc_engineer123_: it might help to read http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TweakingSoftwareStepGeneration
[13:07:45] <skunkworks> Hmm - maybe I was running it out of a different directory than was stated in the ini.
[13:08:42] <gene__> my PROGRAM_PREFIX is pointing at /home/gene/nc_files, as it should be. Move the M101 stuff to there?
[13:09:08] <cnc_engineer123_> Actually we need to capture encoders at higher rate than 50 khz, for close loop servo
[13:09:56] <skunkworks> cnc_engineer123_: your getting way into hardware encoder counting
[13:10:06] <alex_joni> cnc_engineer123_: get a motion control board
[13:10:18] <skunkworks> how many axis?
[13:11:01] <skunkworks> I would think the pluto would be a good match if your getting by with a couple printer ports.
[13:11:40] <jepler> or one of jon elson's boards or the mesa if your budget is above "hobbyist"
[13:12:37] <jepler> or if you can sacrifice resolution, use an external quadrature divider running on a microcontroller: http://emergent.unpy.net/projects/01149271333
[13:12:47] <jepler> "According to my cycle counting, it polls at 470kHz when a 16MHz crystal is used, so it is expected to work reliably with a 133kHz quadrature signal. So far, though, it has been tested with a single motor spinning at hundreds of RPM.
[13:13:19] <jepler> dividing by 8, you have a modest 16kHz quadrature waveform which you will actually be able to count in emc
[13:13:39] <jepler> bbl, time to do my real job...
[13:17:11] <skunkworks> alex_joni: good luck tomorrow. Break a leg?
[13:20:33] <alex_joni> thanks.. I'll be online later (gotta finish something now)
[13:39:23] <gene> Ok, moved M101 to program_prefix, is no longer an error, but now does nothingg, what is proper syntax to display a #11 type of number?
[13:53:28] <gene> Got M101 working guys. You must put a trailing / on the PROGRAM_PREFIX string!
[13:54:32] <gene> Maybe the wiki entry should mention that?
[13:55:42] <alex_joni> gene: maybe you should update it?
[13:55:44] <alex_joni> :-P
[13:58:54] <The_Ball> Hi Guys, just want to say hello. Im finally getting around to converting my mill to servo drive so it's time to learn about EMC
[14:00:25] <xemet> hi
[14:03:17] <alex_joni> The_Ball: hi, good to hear that
[14:03:20] <alex_joni> hi xemet
[14:04:06] <The_Ball> alex_joni, what kind of setup do you have?
[14:05:12] <xemet> alex, I've seen you've done a custom usplash image. I would like to put a custom image on the live cd, I tried this procedure: http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/Change_Usplash but the oage says it is for the 5.10. The result was only a black screen. If you have time and you can explain me how to do that it will be appreciated...
[14:10:56] <alex_joni> xemet: let me refresh my memory :P
[14:11:07] <alex_joni> The_Ball: I have a small stepper machine now
[14:11:15] <alex_joni> but at work I work with AC servos (robots)
[14:13:23] <alex_joni> xemet: apt-get source emc2-artwork-usplash
[14:13:51] <The_Ball> alex_joni, ok, i was planning for dc servos but i managed to get some ac ones: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=180119980489&rd=1&rd=1
[14:14:08] <The_Ball> alex_joni, do you run with step/dir control or something else?
[14:14:23] <alex_joni> steppers with step/dir
[14:14:44] <alex_joni> the servos I use are driven by CAN
[14:14:50] <alex_joni> proprietary protocol though
[14:15:35] <alex_joni> The_Ball: I would rather use +/-10V analog on those drives
[14:16:05] <The_Ball> oh, is that accurate as though?
[14:16:17] <alex_joni> The_Ball: you need a motion control board
[14:16:34] <xemet> alex, if I do get source what should I do after to change the usplash image?
[14:16:37] <alex_joni> then you connect the encoders to the motion control board, and the analog output to the drives
[14:16:43] <alex_joni> xemet: replace an image
[14:16:47] <alex_joni> and run 'debuild'
[14:16:59] <alex_joni> it will create an deb which you only need to install
[14:17:06] <xemet> wow
[14:17:13] <xemet> thank you, I will try
[14:17:16] <The_Ball> ah, and the motion control board is a pci card?
[14:17:31] <alex_joni> The_Ball: usually yes
[14:17:45] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
[14:20:11] <The_Ball> hmm, looks like that means step/dir control until my budget gets past the shock
[14:21:02] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[14:30:38] <alex_joni> http://www.drublair.com/comersus/store/workshops/tica.htm
[14:30:41] <The_Ball> alex_joni, im reading a bit on the wiki, are you one of the devs?
[14:30:47] <alex_joni> The_Ball: yeah
[14:31:28] <The_Ball> any particular area that would benefit from one more?
[14:32:05] <lerman> The_Ball: What is your skill set?
[14:32:06] <alex_joni> it depends how much time to spare you have
[14:32:53] <lerman> alex_joni: doesn't believe in sleep, so he has lots of spare time. :-)
[14:33:18] <alex_joni> lerman: talking about The_Ball ?
[14:33:18] <alex_joni> :D
[14:33:37] <alex_joni> cause I started to believe in sleep lately
[14:34:00] <lerman> what time is it in your neck of the woods?
[14:34:11] <alex_joni> time to head home
[14:34:15] <alex_joni> ;-)
[14:34:17] <The_Ball> time is always a premium but i somehow find time for my hobbies ;) i just completed my bachelor of inf tech and have been using linux the last 8-10 years, i've started a bachelor of engineering, i work with linux / high bandwith storage solutions
[14:34:16] <lerman> :-)
[14:34:21] <alex_joni> 17:25 < alex_joni> time to head home
[14:34:51] <lerman> and then connect to the group from home...
[14:34:57] <alex_joni> right
[14:35:11] <alex_joni> I'll be offline tomorrow morning though :P
[14:35:16] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is getting married
[14:35:16] <lerman> The_Ball: What programming languages?
[14:35:34] <lerman> (that's why he believes in sleep -- but not alone) :-)
[14:35:36] <SWPadnos> The_Ball, how high bandwidth?
[14:35:39] <The_Ball> mostly c/c++/java
[14:35:39] <cradek> alex_joni: tomorrow is the day?
[14:35:46] <alex_joni> cradek: one of them
[14:35:52] <alex_joni> saturday is another day
[14:36:06] <lerman> Two weddings -- did you say how many brides?
[14:36:11] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:36:19] <alex_joni> lerman: only one legal here
[14:36:21] <cradek> alex_joni: well break a leg
[14:36:23] <The_Ball> SWPadnos, 750MB/s
[14:36:29] <alex_joni> need to go further east for more than one
[14:36:32] <SWPadnos> hmmm - that may be almost enough
[14:36:48] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: you surely must know here, if you agree
[14:36:54] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:36:54] <alex_joni> s/here/her/
[14:37:09] <SWPadnos> I knew there would be some bash-worthy mixing of these two discussions
[14:37:19] <alex_joni> haha
[14:37:44] <alex_joni> I'm heading home.. later all
[14:37:47] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/sim/simulated_home.hal: core-sim only supports three axis, so simulated-home can't do four
[14:37:48] <SWPadnos> see you Alex
[14:37:52] <cradek> bye
[14:38:05] <The_Ball> alex_joni, nice to "meet" you
[14:38:07] <cradek> huh, did jmk skip work today?
[14:38:14] <SWPadnos> hmm. so, with sjgnificant compression, I might be able to get by with 750 MB/sec
[14:38:26] <SWPadnos> yay - I saw that problem yesterday
[14:39:41] <The_Ball> SWPadnos, if you need more we have some sas based systems coming...
[14:40:00] <skunkworks> The_Ball: where are you located?
[14:40:11] <The_Ball> australia
[14:40:25] <SWPadnos> it sounds like a 10gigE interconnect, or some other storage-related "network"
[14:40:38] <SWPadnos> excellent. if I meet with you, I can write off my anniversary trip
[14:40:41] <skunkworks> Aww - the cnc workshop is coming up - but that is in IL usa
[14:40:42] <SWPadnos> oops - I didn't say that
[14:41:09] <skunkworks> you may have to strike that off the logger
[14:41:19] <SWPadnos> logger, belay that order!
[14:41:28] <The_Ball> we do run 10gig to some client workstations
[14:41:29] <skunkworks> make it so
[14:41:30] <SWPadnos> oh right, I can just edit the files
[14:41:37] <SWPadnos> ;)
[14:44:22] <The_Ball> i guess you guys are all on cnczone?
[14:44:29] <SWPadnos> nope, not me
[14:44:38] <jepler> I hate web foprums
[14:44:41] <jepler> forums
[14:44:41] <cradek> not me
[14:44:48] <SWPadnos> they bug me - I hate having to sign up for the forum to read some posts or get the attachments
[14:45:06] <cradek> yeah
[14:46:22] <jepler> the emc project has its own mailing lists: http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/4/8/lang,en/
[14:46:39] <jepler> personally, I read both the "users" and "developers" lists
[14:50:32] <The_Ball> I will join the list
[15:37:03] <chr0n1c> :( just talked to the boss and he saiys i actually gotta come into the shop today.. no updating the website from home :(
[15:37:25] <chr0n1c> grrr.. work
[16:51:01] <gene> hey guys, got x problem, its eating 80% of cpu & emc is lagging. Been rebooted
[16:51:57] <SWPadnos> does it do that when EMC isn't running?
[16:52:10] <gene> yes
[16:52:30] <SWPadnos> hmmm. #ubuntu may be of some help then :)
[16:52:57] <SWPadnos> (not to be rude or anything)
[16:53:35] <gene> The only thng I did to xorg.conf was to add "1600x1200" as the first option in the multicolor lines, but its still at 1024x768 & butt ugly
[16:54:00] <SWPadnos> I usually get rid of all the resolution sets at all the bit depths I don't want
[16:54:44] <gene> I'll take those back out, but this card, on this mobo, and this machine HAS run at 1600x1200 just fine in a previous install
[16:55:02] <SWPadnos> I'd b esurprised if that's the problem
[16:55:08] <SWPadnos> then again, what bit depth are you using?
[16:55:20] <gene> so would I, but thats the only change
[16:55:45] <gene> 24 gforec 5200 card, nv driver
[16:56:14] <SWPadnos> ok. I'm assuming the 5200 has more than 8M of RAM, so that shouldn't be the problem
[16:56:28] <gene> like 128
[16:57:11] <SWPadnos> you're using kubuntu from the DVD, with EMC2 installed afterwards, right?
[16:57:37] <gene> correct, useing the install sacript
[16:58:03] <skunkworks> I thought the nv driver could be a problem also
[16:58:17] <gene> I found an error in that too, the .ini files PROGRAM_PREFIX line needs a trailing /
[16:58:31] <gene> nv hasn't been before
[16:58:58] <gene> nv just announced a newer version last night
[16:59:09] <gene> nv/nvvidia
[16:59:52] <SWPadnos> which is it, nv or nvidia?
[17:00:00] <gene> nv
[17:00:06] <SWPadnos> ok :)
[17:00:19] <gene> i never had installed the nvidia driver
[17:00:28] <SWPadnos> you could try the vesa driver instead, but I'm not sure you can get 1600x1200/24 bit
[17:00:55] <gene> i don't think so, but how to try?
[17:01:16] <SWPadnos> change the line that says "nv" so it says "vesa" instead
[17:01:27] <gene> in xorg.conf?
[17:01:30] <SWPadnos> yep
[17:01:49] <gene> ok, bbl
[17:01:50] <SWPadnos> somewhere there will be a line that says: Driver "nv"
[17:49:15] <gene> I'm back, but its been "real" getting here, I tried to take the wacom crap our of it while I was at it because the ubuntu list has been squawking
[17:50:24] <gene> but there is another reference to 'stylus' someplace, and it wouldn't startx, just hung. So I ssh'd in and ran the fix script, so I'm back to square one, but with axis now at the top of the top screen
[17:51:53] <gene> And, the 'realtime' error box that pops up steals the keyboard focus, and I lost 1/4" off a clamp before I could get the motor and spindle power killed cause I couldn't stop emc with the esc key
[17:53:08] <SWPadnos> hmmm - that doesn't sound fun
[17:53:15] <gene> That needs fixed, it doesn't hit but maybe 1 time a session, and can be cleared without effecting emc IF you notice it.
[17:53:48] <SWPadnos> yeah - I wonder if that message box can be popped over axis, but not grab focud
[17:53:53] <SWPadnos> focus
[17:54:16] <gene> That would be ideal, stealing focuc=bad dog
[17:54:23] <gene> That would be ideal, stealing focus=bad dog
[17:54:30] <ds2> it might be a window manager problem also
[17:54:48] <ds2> focus stealing in general is a very very very very bad thing
[17:54:51] <SWPadnos> yeah - I'm not sure if it's possible to pop a window over the current one, but not give it focud
[17:54:57] <SWPadnos> gah - focus
[17:55:16] <gene> anyway now I've lost all my zero points, this block of alu is starting to look like swiss cheese...
[17:55:27] <ds2> I think it is doable
[17:55:44] <gene> 2.1.6 material?
[17:57:22] <ds2> gene, were you setup for click to focus or point to focus?
[18:10:58] <gene> where do I check?
[18:11:59] <SWPadnos> it'll be in the KDE control center somewhere, under desktop settings (or whatever they call it)
[18:17:39] <gene> couldn't find it
[18:18:31] <ds2> check?
[18:18:48] <ds2> how do you go between apps? do you have to click to go between apps or just move the mouse?
[18:19:32] <gene> I have to click
[18:19:42] <ds2> hmm
[18:19:58] <ds2> might be a matter of making that box nonmodal
[18:20:05] <ds2> not sure how it would work in Python though
[18:21:16] <gene> well, I have a trial cut going now, to see if I can see the backlash turnaround in the middle of the curve
[18:21:32] <SWPadnos> make sure your physical estop button is within reach ...
[18:22:14] <gene> I need to get one wired up...
[18:22:24] <SWPadnos> since you have steppers with no feedback, you can run the test programs without the motor drivers powered. additionally, when checking problems (like timing and system response), it's probably a good idea to not use a cutter at all ...
[18:22:35] <SWPadnos> (but you know that now, even if you didn't an hour ago ;) )
[18:22:46] <gene> yuppers
[18:24:30] <gene> otherwise, if I can see the backlash wibble, I'll have to do this in long x sweeps with the y calculated, s/b fun cause I'm not a math whiz
[18:24:34] <ds2> cutters are fine...just use one made out of wax ;)
[18:24:46] <ds2> i.e. a crayon so it leaves a mark where it went
[18:24:59] <gene> or breaks
[18:25:17] <gene> what size collet? I'm lazy
[18:25:31] <SWPadnos> 1/4 or thereabouts, I think
[18:25:37] <SWPadnos> depends on how far down they can compress
[18:25:42] <gene> This cut is in 3d guys
[18:25:44] <skunkworks> metric or english crayons?
[18:26:05] <gene> grin
[18:27:17] <ds2> crayons are incredibly cheap... $1 for 64 of them!
[18:27:30] <gene> good, I can't see the z axis backlash reversal, so this might do
[18:28:09] <gene> but I need to get an air nozzle on the bit too, smoother finish I expect
[18:31:17] <gene> humm, may have small flat spot on top, I can see where it actually startz z back down for real, damn.
[18:32:14] <gene> Can I reload the .ini on the fly?
[18:33:34] <gene> and xorg is back to 75% cpu, wtf?
[18:56:51] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py:
[18:56:51] <CIA-8> * make F1 for estop work even in pop-ups
[18:56:51] <CIA-8> * make the backplot still update while an error pop-up is displayed
[18:56:51] <CIA-8> * get rid of an unneeded 'poll()' loop
[19:15:36] <gene> Hey guys, I just discovered POSITION_FILE on page 32, this will be handier than bottled beer, does it work???
[19:35:26] <cradek> gene: of course it works, what do you think we are, amateurs?
[19:36:17] <cradek> oh wait
[19:36:24] <cradek> :-)
[19:36:26] <cradek> (yes it works)
[19:36:49] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC rasies hand I KNOW IKNOW
[19:58:08] <alex_joni> hi guys
[20:01:42] <jepler> hey it's my favorite amateur
[20:02:19] <alex_joni> what? where/
[20:02:21] <alex_joni> ?
[20:07:31] <JymmmEMC> jepler: who is?
[20:08:42] <JymmmEMC> jepler: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0772152/
[20:09:36] <alex_joni> * alex_joni shrugs
[20:10:49] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: I'd expect that from you... You're the one that doesn't know what to do with GB's of ram... I bet you read and believe that we will never need more than 1MB of ram, huh? huh? huh? admit it!!! LOL
[20:14:53] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: no, not really.. my laptop has 1G, and my work machine 2G
[20:15:07] <alex_joni> but for home I have 256 and it's enough ;)
[20:15:41] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: Are you kidding?! Firefox alone can take 80MB
[20:16:34] <alex_joni> yeah, well I try to surf sane sites :P
[20:16:37] <alex_joni> stay away from pr0n
[20:16:55] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: No, no, that's just opening the browser, not surfing
[20:17:04] <alex_joni> then somethings fscked
[20:17:30] <JymmmEMC> Yeah, bloated browsers.
[20:18:10] <alex_joni> pretty bloated..
[20:18:16] <alex_joni> opera with 5 tabs: 33M
[20:18:21] <alex_joni> firefox empty: 20M
[20:19:42] <JymmmEMC> NS used to take ~8MB empty. Can't be gfx engines, The only thing I can think of is maybe CSS/XML interproters
[20:20:48] <JymmmEMC> I have JAVA disabled, and no plugins loaded
[20:52:04] <jepler> cradek: showing the working volume is nice
[20:52:59] <cradek> glad you like it
[20:53:17] <cradek> it definitely helps you to offset the program into the limits (or see if it fits)
[20:53:50] <jepler> I am surprised that I can complete a "touch off" after hitting F1 to enter estop mode!
[20:54:28] <jepler> (since touch off issues an mdi command)
[20:54:35] <cradek> hmmm
[20:58:52] <JymmmEMC> ESTOP on and you can still do MDI commands?
[20:59:41] <cradek> that particular mdi command doesn't cause anything to happen on the machine
[20:59:49] <cradek> I have no idea if that's relevant though
[20:59:55] <JymmmEMC> I meant in general
[21:08:44] <Jymmm> That actually was a question, not a comment.
[21:09:19] <SWPadnos> I don't believe you!
[21:09:51] <SWPadnos> I mean - Oh, good question
[21:10:06] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Yeah, Yeah, I bet you don't believe that Earth is flat, and THERE BE DRAGONS too!
[21:17:10] <jepler> the user interface usually prevents you from entering MDI commands when the machine is in estop mode
[21:17:19] <Jymmm> jepler TY
[23:01:42] <marti1> Hello folks
[23:02:04] <marti1> marti1 is now known as martin_lundstrom
[23:02:53] <martin_lundstrom> I cant see my 3 parallel ports in /proc/ioports What can I do???
[23:03:46] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/halcmd_commands.c: print a message when the signal name is accidentally omitted from the net command
[23:04:55] <jepler> martin_lundstrom: use lspci to find the address(es) and pass them to hal_parport in your hal file. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?NetMos
[23:08:20] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/halcmd.c: merge from TRUNK: print a message when a common 'net' error is made
[23:13:36] <martin_lundstrom> Ill have a look...
[23:19:25] <martin_lundstrom> jepler: I think im on the right trac, thanks
[23:19:48] <jepler> martin_lundstrom: welcome
[23:19:52] <jepler> * jepler goes to make dinner
[23:25:15] <Rugludallur> Martin_Lundstrom: how goes with the config, any success/issues
[23:42:04] <Rugludallur> gnite
[23:42:15] <Rugludallur> Martin_Lundstrom: I'll try to catch you later