* chr0n1c dies, twice in 3 minutes
chr0n1c: Let me try... I'll make sure you STAY dead!
* JymmmEMC grabs the ZWVDK and heads to Ohio
hey... I am working on an stepper ini for a new machine... what does ist mean when I get an error that says maxomum possible frequency is #####
The requested maximum velocity of 20571 steps/sec is too high.
Stepgen: the maximum poss freq is 12045 steps/second
does that for each axis
my max velocity is set at 1.16
ahahaha I took some pics
gringos is now known as Unition
[00:47:06] <Unition> http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=29214559vd5.jpg
is that iron pipe?
I used lots of that fantastic plastic
for the motor mounts and connectors
the other z motor rides on the top pipe
anyone on the emc error?
Ziegler: the maximum possible step rate is determined by the base period and a few other things
you are asking for more than it can give
there is a wiki page that addresses that, lemme find the URL
is $29.00 for a lin engineering 870 oz/in 8 wire stepper a good deal?
i think so... ;)
crap it was only 4 wire
i retracted me bids at the last second.. whew
i had like 1:30 to spare
i shold read that whole datasheet first
... 'twas too good to be true
chr0n1c: do you have unipolar drives?
well the 4aupc hobby cnc board
I don't know if thats unipolar or bipolar - its your drive, you should know
can i use 4 wire with it? i never actually finished reading the datatsheets for the driver.. but i know it has 6 terminals
if its bipolar, then 4 wire motors are fine
4 axis unipolar chopper driver
cant use 4 wire
i didn't know
i found a circut to convert 6 wires to 4 somewhere
i need to see if i can find it again
8 wire and 6 wire motors can be used on 4 wire drives
chr0n1c you think your a chron check out my pig stye http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1923/49824056oo1.jpg
8 wire and 6 wire motors can be used on 6 wire (unipolar) drives
4 wire motors can be used ONLY on 4 wire bipolar drives
im using 8 wire on my unipolar
i have one BIG 8 wire... and it's already wired for 6.. i need two more
my buddy gave me a 12v 4a pyramid bench power supply the other day..
so i got the power taken care of
* chr0n1c just made a sweet glass pipe using my drill press for a glass lathe...
"tobacco use only" of course
uh - yah
stay in school kids!
* chr0n1c turns into a 28 yr old kid at midnight
(my birthday of course.. on the 20th
btw I make music with all those glasses
thats why im a pig :P
yeah it's almost as messy as my desk
my desk (bench actually) is worse
this is part of it: http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/pics/cat_on_bench.jpg
ur cat has fire in the eyes
i think your cat hates me, it gave me adirty look
here's lookin' at you: http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/pics/cat_and_dog_on_steps.jpg
hey would a 1.09 mw laser cut things?
* chr0n1c doesn't know about lasers
* chr0n1c is going to look it up
no, it won't
unless the things are microscopic and you focus the beam
[01:36:00] <chr0n1c> http://cgi.ebay.com/WORKING-HELIUM-NEON-LASER-DEMO-KIT-WITH-EMITTER-TUBE_W0QQitemZ230132176585QQihZ013QQcategoryZ109452QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
laser pointers can be up to either 3 or 5 mW
i know i got some cheapo pointers that reach into my neighbors living room
heh. I've seen some where you can see the dot about 200 yards away
what's really fun is taking a laser pointer and anight scope - then you can see the dot from miles away
we got out my binoculars and found the dot inside the hotel through the trees on the wall in the hallway by my house
it's gotta be more than 100 yards
yep - that's the fun of lasers - very little divergence of the beam
i have one mounted on a tripod
i can turn on the neighbors motion lights
just so you can annoy cats from a mile away? ;)
actually it's on the tripod because i point it at my neighbors truck's tail lights at night and people go nuts when they drive by :)
across the street from my living room
they slam on thier brakes and check it out
it looks like there is a fire in the taillight
* chr0n1c is evil
headlights are fun too
you can even do it driving down the highway and freak ppl out
but.. not really safe to be doing that
yeah, that sounds like a good idea
you could blind ppl
or get beat up
i haven't got beat up in a long time...
you obviously don't live in LA
nope.. i don't think i'd want to really
that's the smartest thing you've said in at least 12 lines or so ;)
i need trees
there are trees in LA, they're just $1000000 each
and woods and no earthquakes
oh - details details
i get nervous when even my stomach rumbles...
i start looking for a safe place
and thunder! oh god
like a dog.. behind the couch
I FUCK THE$ DOG
all day long
and your worse chronic
learn to code
this is the emc dev channel ?
4 reelZ ?
[01:59:40] <chr0n1c> http://motionmouse.com/index.html
that's kind of cool
not necessarily all that useful (to me), but cool nonetheless
i need to on phase driver in emc
i need edit to .ini file for it?
no changes to ini file. only to .hal files
in other day
jepler says for me:
for edit hal file
"loadrt stepgen step_type=0,0,0
do you want 4-phase output, or for step and direction?
I need to put a Phase-drive on EMC
like 2 pins each time, full step. It´s not dir-step
is "Phase Drive" the name of a motor driver?
to move 6 wire unipolar steppers
Phase-drive is the motor drive stepper
ok, so like this:
0 0 1 1
0 1 1 0
1 1 0 0
1 0 0 1
i have no dir-step drivers
only 12 TIP122 opto-isolated on parallel port, got ya?
no - then the sequence repeats :)
oh, i see
yeah, like this, yes
is that what you need? two coils on at a time, shifting to create motion?
THANKS !!!!! :-]
it looks like you need step type 6
so that would be loadrt stepgen step_type=6,6,6
for three of them
i gess, what files do i need to change it?
look at the HAL manual at http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/HAL_Documentation.pdf
page 73 (74 in the PDF)
i need to edit ini file?
no, you need to edit .hal files
are you adding this to an existing machine, or is this a new configuration?
loadrt in hal file?
yes - look at core_stepper.hal (I think)
there will be a line that has "loadrt stepgen " on it
change the "0,0,0" to "6,6,6"
you will then need to connect the new signals to your parport
net motor1_phase1 stepgen.0.phase-a parport.0.pin-2
(that line would connect the first output from the first stepgen to the first parport pin 2)
plz, in what folder is that
wherever the ini file you're using is
if this is an installed system, then you probably have some configs in ~/emc2/configs/*
but can´t find this file
are there any directories there?
sudo updatedb;locate <filename>
there would be several hits there - the idea is to find the right one
common demo_mazak demo_step_cl etch-servo exapod-sim m5i20 max montec sim
run emc from a shell, it will print the ini path
Hmmmm that was interesting
ok, which config do you want to modify?
or is this a new configuration?
in what hal file are ya based ?
ok, what configuration are you trying to modify?
oke i founded the core_stepper.hal
it's more important to make sure you're changing the correct config ...
and only you know which one that is
wow, JUST like that? Chnged the "0,0,0" to "6,6,6" and i am on phase-drive mode?
the step generator is in phase-drive mode
yes, the stepgen will be in phase drive mode, but the pins will need to be connected to the parallel port
but the signals won't come out the parport until you make more changes
soory i don´t got it
you should probably read some of the HAL introduction in the user manual: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/EMC2_User_Manual.pdf
connecting signals is a very basic part of HAL, and it will be very difficult to talk you through it on IRC
may i need to change the standard pinout hal ?
but i ask one for you
i modify the core-steper.hal
I think those connections are in core_stepper.hal, but I'm not sure
i need to edit standart_pinoult.hal?
yes, that's where the connections to the parallel port are
plz, i set newsig XphaseA = bit is thar correct to make a Phase signall ?
must i need to put BIT there
just "newsig XphaseA bit"
I GOT IT!
Tnahks Thanks Thanks A LOT !
I will make the changes to put Phase-drives on EMC2, if you guys want to put it on next versions i can send ya
Look, i have all 12 OUT pins used
but 31 and 36 pins not loaded (to move Z axis)
I don't understand
loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x0378 out 0x037A " ????
phase mode needs four outputs per motor
do you have two parports installed in your computer?
but parport has 12 pins OUT
ok, so what is the problem?
(you don't want to add another number to the parport cfg=" "
pins 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 14 31 36
31 and 36? no such thing
and im using X: 2 3 4 5
Y: 6 7 8 9
Z: 1 14 31 36
It works good on turbocnc like that
there is no 31 and 36! the parport is a 25 pin connector!
oh I see!
Those are CENTRONICS connections! hahahaha
if you look at the parport section of the HAL manual it tells you what pins are inputs and outputs
(there is even a drawing)
Oke, sorry my dumb style huhuhu !
is there an guarantee of time duration for something like: N100 G00 X0.0 Y0.0; N110 M03 G01 X10.0 Y10.0 F2.0; N120 M05; (Guarantee time for between blocks 110 and 120)
between? the lines execute one right after another
maybe I don't understand the question
this is what I am thinking of doing
i want to control something that is duration sensitive, say a laser cutter; so I use M03 to turn on the laser and M05 to turn it off. I want to be sure the time the laser is on is deterministic
the G1 move will move 14.1 units at 2 units/minute, so it will take a while
G4 is a timed delay
but is the time to execute a M code fixed?
or asking the entire thing another way, can I count on EMC processing blocks in a repeatable fashion w.r.t to time used?
well it depends, think of pause, tool change, etc
but those are physical actions; I just want the M code to toggle a line
so that itself is physically a constant time event
some of the M codes go through a non-realtime path, so they're not going to be as repeatable as queued motion commands
I don't know how repeatable you need it
Hmm. I don't know either; just toying with some ideas
there are some motion-synchronized digital output bits that you can control with g codes
Hello guys i´m back again, I got the right pins now, REALLY THNAKS!
Phase-drive on EMC2 now, very cool
but something is happening eith interface
ds2: I see those are not in the gcode reference... let me see if I can figure them out
I have LEDs to "see" witch phase is ON, and the EMC interface gets a LAG
The LED "runs" and the coords change after that
cradek: cool, glad you mention them
on INI file there is some base period configs... do i need do change it to get my EMC2 interface OK ?
P word is the bit
not sure how the 62,63,64,65 work, try them
and those have relative timing guarantees?
I think they give you hal pins motion.digital-out-00 etc
ds2: I'm not sure :-)
you should be able to study the operation with halscope
Sorry, is that fr me (interface LAG problem) ?
main thing I want to see is if I need to hack together some motion control and looks like EMC will do it
Guest781: the gui will always be slightly behind the machine, because it polls the machine
ds2: if you need complex timing in realtime, consider using classicladder+emc
Hi guys, im getting improvements in my EMC2 knowledge, Thnak ya a lot
i am considering buying a Samsung Q1
for work and school
[05:08:03] <toastydeath> http://www.samsung.com/uk/products/mobilecomputing/ultramobile/np_q1_v000suk.asp
anyone have experience with that kind of device
BUT..... What is FERROR? Is that for Stepper machines, or just for Servo machines ?
i don't know dude
FERROR is following error, the distance between where you should be and where you are. this occurs on all servo systems to some degree. less is better. less means the control is 'tighter'.
thenks dude, but i am using stepper motors, with no encoders, does it affect my machine? what do i need to do on this variable?
FERROR on a system with 'fake' feedback ( like a stepper with no encoder ) is meaningless afik.
oke, but why sometimes there is a ferror message on my system ?
set it real high?
then see if you're having dimensional problems on curves
maybe your system cannot move as fast as you'd like. is it real or simulated? does slowing down the velocity avoid the error?
what feedrate are you using, anyway
no... slowering the problem solves.... got ya
? slowing solves it?
increase the value too
value off ferror
then your system ( pulse generator , et al ) cannot generate the pulses and keep up with the desired velocity and acceleration... meaning your asking too much, and the error is a bit generic, should be "ICANTKEEPUPWITTHWHATYOUWANT" not "FERROR"
i dont subscribe to the 'loosen the tolerance' way of fixing these things. i'd suggest the 'lower your expectations' route.
[05:30:36] <tomp> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini_config/ini_config.html
oke, but how EMC2 "see" this Ferror if there is no sense hardware?
btw: your stepper system is 'servo' in the sense that a simulatyed feedback ( the current step count ) is fed back into the position loop. yes it's not an analog motor but it is controlled in a loop with simulated feedback.
no 'sense' just count
" following errors usually have 2 causes on steppers " http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Following_Error
that has definition, cause & effect, and admits it's weird to think of ferror with steppers
haha its the spanish inquisition! it says " 2 causes", then lists 5 ! :)
* chr0n1c jsut watched a show about computer history on discovery
it had interviews with gates and jobs in it
not one single mention of linux though
i was dissapointed
i bet apple and microshaft paid for it in a joint venture
03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/Makefile: -Added libnml/nml/nml_type.hh to files copied into include directory.
03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/Makefile:
-Added emc/nml_intf/emc_nml.hh and emc/ini/emcIniFile.hh to list of files
copied to include directory.
good morning to all the group
did you have any luck?
03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tcl/tkemc.tcl: fix #1690950 by applying jeff's fix, and testing for different LANG's. seems to work OK now
alex_joni : no, I noticed that in param.h there is a variable "NOGROUP" that is negative (-1)
NightHawk_Eng: try replacing the S_IRUGO | S_IWUGO
with a numeric value
and see if it compiles them
try 0 or 666
i would like to connect estop button to parport pin, will this work: linksp iocontrol.0.user-enable-out parport.0.pin-1-out
you are trying to link 2 pins
linksp links a signal to a pin
so you need:
newsig estop-out bit
linksp estop-out iocontrol.0.user-enable-out
linksp estop-out parport.0.pin-01-out
i see...will try this, thank you
you can also use the net command:
net estop-out iocontrol.0.user-enable-out parport.0.pin-01-out
saves a bit of typing :D
03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/tcl/tkemc.tcl: backport fix for bug #1690950
alex_joni : replaced with 0. OK!!!!
NightHawk_Eng: ok, then try only S_IWUGO
and see which one causes it
NightHawk_Eng: by looking at stat.h I think the value should be 666 (rw for everybody)
where did you say you saw that negative thing?
alex, i did what you suggested, and i did not get any error any more, but now i cant toggle estop button any more....any idea why?
now estop doesn't loop back anymore
kwaj: there are 2 things (actually more, but now we care about these 2) related to estop in emc2
an user-enable-out and estop-in
when you hit the GUI estop reset button, the user-enable-out gets sent out
in order for emc2 to change to ESTOP RESET, it needs the estop-in
by default the configs we use have a loopback from user-enable-out to estop-in
sorry.. the right name is emc-stop-in
err.. emc-enable-in :)
can't make up my mind it seems :D
kwaj: it would be best if you can describe to me what you want to do with estop..
i have one main rely, which cut off power supplay for whole machine
i have one main relay, which cut off power supplay for whole machine
and you want emc2 to switch off that relay when you hit the GUI estop button
so i would like to toggle this relay with estop button
I hope you also have mushrooms which also toggle that relay
independently from emc2.. right?
ok :) that's the way to do it
you need 2 things
one output from emc2 to kill the relay
one input to emc2 after the relay to see if everything is ok
following me so far?
why this input
whyt could be not ok
so that emc2 knows when you hit a mushroom
no, the mushroom will yust diconect the emcstop signal from relay
isnt this most simple solution
doesn't matter what it does
if you hit an estop mushroom.. the relay disengages.. right?
alex_joni : so you suggest me to wrote 666 | 666 or a single 666
ok.. then how does emc2 know this?
NightHawk_Eng: single 666
does emc need to know this
kwaj: yes, in order to stop commanding motion
you didn't say if you have servos or steppers
I guess in case of an estop you'll still be losing steps
but not as many as if you turn off the drives, and emc2 keeps moving
kwaj: he're what I would do:
the output from emc2 controls the relay (with additional mushrooms..)
connected as above
then you need a feedback from the relay to know that an external estop hasn't happened
you connect that to emc-enable-in
* The first is emc-enable-in. It is an input from the HAL, when FALSE,
* EMC will go into the STOPPED state (regardless of the state of
* the other two pins). When it goes TRUE, EMC will go into the
* ESTOP_RESET state (also known as READY).
same polarity for user-enable-out
what about this default loopback, should i delet it?
you can comment it out for now
alex_joni : with 666 it doesn't work
alex_joni : I'vefound a "NOGROUP" (-1) in the param.h under the /linux/asm directory
NightHawk_Eng: same error with 666?
alex_joni: do you think I should delete the dallur config now that I have a new config, they differ quite a bit and the new one does not have any classicladder so the old might still be a valid sample
Rugludallur: no :)
there's no harm in keeping it for now
alex_joni : yes same error
alex_joni: that's what I figured, it can be deleted later on if people feel it's cluttering things
bahh, Optimus keyboard will be available for pre-order in 1 hour, to bad it costs $1564
NightHawk_Eng: try S_IRUGO | S_IWUSR
or maybe only S_IRUGO to see which one is the cause of trouble
NightHawk_Eng: or try 0644
alex_joni : ok
alex_joni : where can i find the explanation of S_IRUGO and co.. (just to study a little of C and linux) :)
IRUGO is Read only for User Group and Owner
just think of ls
it shows the same thing basicly
IWUGO is Writeable by User Group & Owner
IRUGO = IRUSR | IRGRP | IROTH
O means Other.. sorry ;)
ok. with S_IRUGO | S_IWUSR compile
but it should make emc2 work
waiting the end of procedure and I'll send make setuid
I'm root now so I have to write sudo make setuid anyway?
03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/changelog: mention tkemc bugfix
alex_joni : emc2 doesn't work
I've noticed some warning about RT in the make phase.....
is there a log about the make process?
just to understand what's happened
NightHawk_Eng: nope, but you can do make > logfile
NightHawk_Eng: what doesn't work?
(you'll probably be getting warnings about redefinition of kinematicsInverse & co.. those are harmless)
under AXIS it tells a message for "msgid"
NightHawk_Eng: can you be more specific?
you are right. forget axis for a moment
I receive, under rtai.ko, a lot of messages like :
rt_task_wait_period [/CNC/emc2/src/rtaoi.ko] is undefined
rt_task_wait_period [/CNC/emc2/src/rtaoi.ko] undefined ! (exctly)
the same error for all the rt component under rtapi.ko
I'm thinking about a problem in rtai 3.5!
NightHawk_Eng: try running the latency test
that should test only rtai
[10:51:16] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#RTAI_Latency_test
those are the instructions for our default setup
in your case it might differ a bit
the latency is good
10000ns and 0 jitter
kern + user
well.. I am running rtai 3.5 right now
so there must be soemthign wrong with yuor setup
My setup with 2.16.17 works too
well.. I heard it before that 2.6.20 doesn't work..
but I've got a problem with the CPU (a via C7) supported only on the kernel 2.6.20
the latency improved with 2.6.20
[10:55:20] <alex_joni> https://mail.rtai.org/pipermail/rtai/2007-April/017014.html
that's just one of the ones I've seen
is it difficult to run EMC with Xenomai?
acemi: that depends.. if you use the rtai skin on xenomai I think not
otherwise you might need to rewrite rtapi to work for Xenomai
in the calibrate section of rtai i receive this error ERROR: Module rtai_calibrate does not exist in /proc/modules
I've tried to load the module manually with insmod rtai_calibrate.ko and I obtain an error : -1 Unknown symbol in module
I know that this is aproblem with my setup. I'd like to know if someone can explain this kind of erro
does anybody know how much current can source and sink one parport pin?
I remember about 15mA but I'm not 100% sure
sourcing might be less.. 5mA or so
alex_joni : a question on rtai. I'm unable to find rtai.o
I've read that I have to load this module but I can't find!
rtai modules are in /lib/modules/2.6.xxx/rati
kwaj, source 2ma, sink 20ma is fairly typical
it should be rtai.ko not .o
the .o is for 2.4 kernels
Ok I'll search
I've got no directory /lib/modules/188.8.131.52/rtai !
now I'm reinstalling rtai 3.5
it depends where you installed the modules
it might be in /usr/realtime-something
ok, I don't want to stress you with my problem. It's my choice to install slackware 11. :(
sometimes it's built into the kernel
depends on how you configure it
I enabled the "automount of modules"
ok boys. thanx for the helps. See you later!!!
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/share/axis/tcl/axis.tcl: another keyboard/button jogging fix
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py:
* add a scrolling text area to the standard dialog box
* make the nice color images be used in the standard dialog box
* have axis capture the stderr of the filter program to show a progress
bar and to show filter error messages
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/share/axis/tcl/dialog.tcl:
* add a scrolling text area to the standard dialog box
* make the nice color images be used in the standard dialog box
* have axis capture the stderr of the filter program to show a progress
bar and to show filter error messages
03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/image-to-gcode.py:
* send progress bar information (unfortunately, the bar fills several times.. oh well)
* partial implementation of roughing passes, turned off for now since it's unfinished
Dallur: Hello, any news?
Are there anymore of those python apps like the holecircle.py that comes with the install?
I think the idea was that you could make your own, based on that example
there are other filters like image-to-gcode that you get when loading an image
martin_lundstrom: there is a new config Dallur commited a couple days ago
did you see that?
cradek: yeah... making my own was the first thing that came to mind... second things that came to mind was... wonder if there is a repository
Ziegler: sure there is.. it's just waiting for your own filters
If you make useful stuff and would like to contribute it, we'd happily put it in cvs and distribute it with releases
we'll gladly add them
ok Ill keep that in mind
me python is a bit rusty, but it shouldnt take me much to get back into it.
I have a large number of non "ngc" files extensions. What should I add in the filter section to make these available (besides selection *.*)
I think you could add them to the ini file as accepted filetypes, and use "cat" as the filter
let me try..
kind of an ugly hack, but works
we read danke just fine :P
maybe you can add the extension, but not a filter, I'm not sure
ill try that
wonder what happens if you use axis as the filter :)
lol Ill try that too
you'll probably get a second one
which won't work.. as it doesn't have the proper params
might kill this poor little machine
its only slow when I load some code over 2 megs
yeah... cat not needed
just added it to the list of extensions
anonimasu: you there?
tomp: hey ther?
anonimasu: what was that place called that had servo motors and stuff?
some swedish supplier
or, even better, do you know of some place that would have DC brushed/brushless motors in the 300-500 watt range?
yeah.. but not cheap ones..
what price range are we talking about?
700sek a motor..
JymmmEMC: I need shipping to sweden :/
anonimasu: hmm, not *that* bad
7500 for 1.kw brushed..
you said 700 first ;)
err 700eur.. I meant ;)
way out of my budget
I'd shop on ebay..
get them shipped to a friend in the us..
and send them by the slowest/cheapest thing here..
as a gift.
it's a pita but I may have to do something like that
I need to leave for a bit
03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_servo.comp: don't load, if the pluto isn't there
Dallur: Are you around?
Anyone got a spare $100K I could borrow... http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/334679180.html
you're half an hour too late
Ok, then $5500... http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/332523520.html
41 minutes too late :)
but that's a nice mill
get a deckel :)
what's the interest rate limit from the usuary laws? ;)
guess you didn't get a chance to go over to San Mateo?
if you canfind one for reasonable moneym, a 2nd hand deckel-maho is probably the most rigid small mill you'll find
alex_joni: ok you cheap bastard... $250 http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/332026739.html
oh man.. that looks bad
that is a drill press?!
sure look slike a bridge port head
2 axis slide and some sort of rack in the back
forget the trailer, love the name... http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/331119917.html
Hi folks, I'd like to ask a little technical question
which rtai modules must be loaded boot time for emc2?
or emc2 load the needing module itself?
argh! why does everything good have to be only available in the USA?
everything that you can't find in sweden you can find 5 copies of on ebay
NightHawk_Eng: they are defined in rtapi.conf
for installed versions it's in /etc/emc2/rtapi.conf
for rip it's in scripts iirc
I bought a 20A relay and a SSR a ways back (before I moved), and I can't find the SOB! LOL
alex_joni : can you answer to this question : why, during the make process, emc2 tells me that a lto fo rt_... components are undefined?
can you paste one line?
for example : rt_task_wait_period [/cnc/emc2/src/rtapi.ko] undefined!
can you paste the whole line?
I don't rember exactly all the line (I think there was a WARNING before the line I wrote)
if you need exactly, I'll send a make clean and restarted the process
restart the process
NightHawk_Eng: when you do it the next time
LAex_joni : for rtapi.ko : WARNING: rt_task_wait_period [/cnc/emc2/src/rtapi.ko] undefined!
can you pastebin Makefile.inc ?
for classicladder_rt.ko : WARNING : RT_get_cpu_time_ns [/cnc/emc2/src/classicladder_rt.ko] undefined!
do you think it caused by RTA 3.5
I've found this http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?action=history&id=Debian_Etch_Compile_RTAI
NightHawk_Eng: it should be detected
pastebin has problem with website
[20:49:49] <NightHawk_Eng> http://pastebin.ca/499020
I guess the warning is because the modules are not in /lib/modules/etc
and when the compiler links rtapi.ko it doesn't see the needed symbols
but it shouldn't matter
so... what you suggest me?
I'm not sure..
I still don't know what the problem is when you run emc2
or at least try to run it..
it doesn't run :(
NightHawk_Eng: I understood that.. but there must be an error message
alex_joni : you are right
alex_joni : I've noticed in kernel config file, that posix is disabled. Do you think is essential? I've read something about this but I don't remeber where!
I don't think so
do you think you can tell me the error from when emc2 starts up?
is there a log file to pastebin?
what do you mean?
under X, when i starts emc2, I can choose the machine type/forntend; After I've selected one, it quits writing something on the shell. I've try tu run ./emc > error.txt but
it doesn't work
NightHawk_Eng: simply open a terminal
then run emc2
after that you select the messages in the terminal, and copy/paste them to pastebin.ca
but I've got the pc on another floor ...
I'll try to write a text file in my usb pen
it's not connected to the internet?
also .. if you do that
please put the output from 'dmesg' to the usb pen
I'm using Xfce instead gnome. is it a problem?
just for my info.. what config did you try to run?
did you try something else?
the most common problem is that people try to run axis on a X server without GLX
I've got a problem with scrolling of the terminal window :(
well.. there can't be that many messages there..
(if you are talking about dmesg, you can redirect that: dmesg > file.foo)
for dmesg no problem
the make setuid wrote only two lines. is it ok? or the procedure is longer
no, not longer
[21:16:15] <NightHawk_Eng> http://pastebin.ca/499079
dmesg looks good
I think is the mod I've done to the rtai_rtapi.c
S_IRUGO | S_IWUSR
I dont' understand why with kernel 2.6.15 all works ok (and rtai 3.3) emc2 included
I've obtain some jitter caused by the CPU type
NightHawk_Eng: can you show me the error emc2 brings?
I'd like to show you. It wrote a lot of lines
and without scrolling is impossible to paste on a text file
Dallur: Still not around?
alex_joni : only a portion of the message!!
let's see it
martin_lundstrom: Rugludallur was in earlier
first part : http://pastebin.ca/499095
martin_lundstrom: and you can /whois a nick to see when they are idle
second part : http://pastebin.ca/499097
emc2 debug file : http://pastebin.ca/499099
NightHawk_Eng: wow.. that's certainly unexpected
Can't write to /dev/rtai_shm
does /dev/rtai_shm exist?
I think the rtai shm module creates RTAI_SHM
no. I'll make the directory
we used some udev trick to create the proper symlink, with proper permissions
it's not a directory
you probably need something like this:
mknod -m 666 /dev/rtai_shm c 10 254
libnml/os_intf/_shm.c 238: shmget(1001(0x3E9),8192,1023) failed: (errno = 38): Function not implemented
this is "normal" OS shared memory, not rtai_shm
jepler: yeah, but he also gets:
RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
think that's still "normal" OS shared mem?
alex_joni : creating the node, emc2 wrote a lot of text i can' copy and paste
vreting a directory I obtained this : http://pastebin.ca/499119
I think there are 2 issues here
1. rtai_shm.ko when loaded creates /dev/RTAI_SHM and not /dev/rtai_shm
so you need either a symlink or a new node for rtai_shm (but it won't survive a reboot)
2. the "normal" OS shared mem problem
a step behind. why my cfg doesn't work with stock rtai_rtapi.c?
why works only with S_IRUGO | S_IWUSR? at line 128
and why it work with older kernel?
to be or not to be!!!!!
I'll try to run some more tests on rtai
you do that
what do you mean?
you should do that
excuse me but I don't understand. I should do what?
< NightHawk_Eng> I'll try to run some more tests on rtai
Two hour on latency and switches test I think was sufficient
don't you think.
I'll try to run the calibration test to see what happens
and any other tests you can find
ok. I'll do but I'm start thinking about some bugs in the patch for the kernel : http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?action=history&id=Debian_Etch_Compile_RTAI
Someone mentioned yesterday about a board to use with the charge pump signal, anyone remember the name/url by chance?
who knows ;)
pmdx has one
JymmmEMC: I mentioned pmdx.com
The Shadow Knows!!!
at that's it.... looking...
it's for geckos though
and a bit pricey
and probably cnc4pc.com
[22:04:35] <SWPadnos> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/index.php?cPath=23
wonder what happens if it blows up
I think C$ is the part number
C4, that is
thought you started writing perl
anyways... off to bed for me
I did, but I got scared
good night all
ha.. robin said it's plain C with $ at the end
nothing to be scared of
SWPadnos: the price it right
If set to high precision, e-stop
will be triggered if the signal is not within 10 to 15 khz in at
least two samples that take place within 1/10 of a second. If
set t low precision, it will require to fail in 5 consecutive
samples that take place in 1/5 of a second.
yep. I don't know how good their stuff is - it looks much better than it did a couple of years ago
of course, you could do this with a $1 AVR as well ...
$1 avr, plus PCB, plus components, etc
$23 is worht the hassel
but I'm surprised to see you say that ;)
Why, just makes sense. If it was $45, might be another story.
heh - or $24 ;)
SWPadnos: You basically mean in respect to me purchasing drives?
* SWPadnos whistles innocently
SWPadnos: Ok, but here's the thing... We don't know for sure, what the problem is my my stalling issues. Sure, we can speculate all day long, and even make an educated guess to attempt to resolve it. But.... since we are guessing, the problem could be elsewhere. So just throwing money at it in hopes that it'll fix the problem isn't my cup of tea. And as always, the fix is easy, once you know what the source of the problem is.
one thing to note: you probably don't need a charge pump safety system with steppers
I can't 100% reproduce the problem consistantly, so I can't find the source.
a royal PITA
SWPadnos: No, but I do for the spindle control.
is it an outboard controller or EMC?
emc --> SSR
so it's an on/off from EMC
well, using charge pump signal from emc
CHARGE_PUMP && SPINDLE_CONTROL && E-STOP
the charge pump relay output would be come part of the ESTOP chain
I'm building a REAL E-STOP (relay + dump resistor)
understood. the charge pump board wil lhave a pair of relay contacts that are closed when the pulse train from EMC is good, and it will open when the pulse train stops
that relay goes in series with all the other ESTOP stuff
I'm missing your point here.
When I said &&, I mean logically
just that CHARGE_PUMP is part of ESTOP :)
111 = Enabled, all else = DISABLED
whereas spindle_control is an output from EMC
I just dont trust a pulse alone for safety purposes.
my point is that the charge pump circuit becomes part of the ESTOP chain, so it's not a separate thing
Well, I dont wnat the CPC to turnoff the PS to the motors.
if that signal ever goes off, EMC is totally FUBARed
or not running
Hmmm, I'll have to ponder that one for a bit. I could easily wire it optional for either way.
stop logic is a very important (and I think largely overlooked) part of machine design
I'm more conserned about it turning on accidentlly
that's hard - you pretty much always put a self-latching relay in the chain - you have to press a button to turn the machine on, then it can keep itself on until *anything* in the stop chain opens
when a spindle on command is sent (Msomethingoranother), it's just momentary, right?
no, that output is held, I believe
Yeah, that's what I'm working on, a self-latching circuit with momentary enable, and momentary disable (so to speak)
ok, that's trivial with a contator that has an extra set of contacts
Teh SSR I have does 30A (If I cna find wher eI put it =)
I want to include a manual override as well. I'm work ing all this out in my head. Can you smell the smoke?
all the way on the East coast
[22:29:53] <SWPadnos> http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/phase-converter/phase-converter.html
I think I need a pull up resistor on the SSR control as well.
look at the third image - the scanned page
Yeah, I build "latching relays" for alarm circuits =)
that's a ladder diagram, which will be useless for you unless you've seen them before :)
well, that's what you want
two buttons, both momentary. one NC one NO
Yep NO to enable, NC to disable
the start button is in parallel with the extra set of relay contacts
that's all you need, but the stop switch on the left gets replaced with everything in the ESTOP chain
if anything opens (faults), the system shuts off
(of course, the other relay contacts go the power supply and VFD/spindle drive enable)
I have to find my 4PDT 20A relay and SSR
simple though - is the smoke clearing? ;)
Mostly, still smoldering a bit. Especially with the charge pump. I bought SSR long ago and was planning on connecting to SPINDLE_SIGNAL directly (along with a SPDT ON-OFF-ON Auto,off, on switch)
for the purpose you want, the cahrge pump has a connection that goes to the computer, and a relay contact that goes in the ESTOP chain
it's nothing more than that
Right, so expluding the ESTOP, I'll have to wire the output side to SPINDLE single too
As just becasue the charge pump signal is present doens't mean I want the spindle on too
no - the charge pump (and the rest of the estop chain) allows other stuff to work
Sometimes I want the motors to hold while I'm changing tools
look at it like a master breaker switch
you don't estop when changing tools
No, I don't. But I dont wnat the spindle to come on either.
sure, but there's a manual switch for that, isn't there?
Thus just becasue emc is running, doens't mean I want the chargpump signal all the time.
if not, then I'd stick one in the chain
there should be a main contactor that provides power to the spindle drive and the motor drives
you can also have a manual spindle switch that's effectively in series with the contactor
Yes, that'll be part of the REAL ESTOP
then you have a relay (SSR) that's driven by EMC
all three have to be on (and maybe a master breaker for the whole machine)
or the spindle doesn't turn
Lets pretend I might forget to flip the spindle switch from AUTO to MANUAL
then you accidentally bump the EMC key that turns the spindle on?
I can wire in interlock switches on my enclosure.
I mean, it happens. we get distracted, heavy in thought, it's easy enough to see the spindle isn't turning and not realize it's still in AUTO mode.
do you have access to the gecko group archives?
yep, already have AMriss Servo estop circuit if that's what you were going to say.
ok, there's an email I wrote on that list on 3/14/2005 titled "Re: [geckodrive] G200x and E-stops"
it has some good points to ponder (I think it does anyway :) )
Ok, will look it up, what userid would it have been posted as?
Stephen Wille Padnos
easy for me to remember
Oh THAT guy... eeeesh what a jerk!
yeah, he's an asshole, but he's really really smart
Not so much an asshole (that's my job)
martin_lundstrom: im here now ;)
Hmmm, it's it possible within emc to specific when the chargepump signal is enabled? Not just when emc is running, but say within gcode (as example)?
you could use custom M codes to turn it on and off
they would be scripts that would just run some simple command like "halcmd setp chargepump.0.enable true"
I'm not sure there is an enable though, thinking about it
you could do the same thing with freqgen though (and you'd have better frequency control and an enable input)
ok, as long as the only option isnt when emc is "alive"
as usual, there are many options
but anything that's "automatic" - rom within EMC, is no better than the spindle enable being off
Thus the interlocks
a charge pump system would be used to make sure that EMC is still running, and that the computer isn't crashed
for the kind of thing you want, you need a manual switch
This is all related to AUTO mode. Nothing regarding MANUAL mode which will have it's own set of features
if you forget to flip it, there's not really much taht can be done automatically to help you
you should stick a light on the spindle that is on when it's in AUTO mode
a bright light
it already has one on the 120V outlet, will add one for on-off-auto too
you essentially want one of those flashing "DANGER" lights, to remind that the machine is in a mode that could hurt you
[23:07:12] <JymmmEMC> http://www.elexp.com/sec_a40a.htm
well, that or a really friggin bright LED that shines in your face when you're in "toolchange position"
Nah, I'll hook up one of those light like on slot machines... then I can think JACKPOT every time it's on =)
nah, get a surplus "you can cross the street chirpy thing
nah, get a surplus "you can cross the street" chirpy thing
that would be loud enough indoors
SWPadnos, what you need is an interlocked guard of some sort
sure - that would also work
or failing that, a chuck key holder, with an interlock switch
seen that done on training lathes
cant start the lathe until the chuck key is back in its holder ...
heh - that's a good one
until someone gets fed up and gets a spare chuck key ...
well, thats the thing ...
when trying to make somethig completely idiot proof, its easy to underestimate the ingenuity of complete idiots
on a real machine you just interlock the doors into the estop loop, job done
well, it depends on what you want to happen when the doors open
like our laser. you can;t ever see it on, because the doors on the lamp cavity are interlocked
with a stepper system, you might actually want what JymmmEMC wants - to have the steppers energized for better holding torque
except we bypassed it because it looks pretty and impresses visitors
or a positive spindle lock
though you have the same problem with energized steppers as you do with the spindle in AUTO mode - EMC could decide to move the table at any time ...
(not that it will, but if it did, you'd have a problem)
SWPadnos: is one of the main reasons no one has goofed around with the grex is its developement software is windows only (z80 rabbit or siemthing like that)
I don't think that's a main reason
at least not for the EMC crowd
or is it its own motion controller?
I bet the main reason (other than time) is that USB 1.1 only has a 1ms frame time
it is a motion controller, and Steve Hardy actually has a very stripped-down then highly modified version of EMC that runs on it
you can't program the Rabbit from Linux, but there is Linux software to run the G-Rex