SWPadnos: except for efficiency in respect to tuning.
robin_sz: Did you guys have "pet rocks" over there?
the chart on page 31 gives it to you indirectly
the "heat in drive" is the loss, total power is the total, subtract then divede, and you have efficiency
which comes out to around 85%, IIRC
i just bought a ti-89
or was that a US only thing
toastydeath: I'm sorry.
i like it.
* JymmmEMC is just fond of HP Calcs
MUCh faster than TI's
does that matter?
I guess for most no, just that whenever I had to recalibrate the spec analyzer, I noticed the TI's were REALLY slow compared to the HP I bought.
and that was a couple times a day.
Since then, I got hooked on HP's, but they seem to be fading them out now.
that sucks =(
kinda crappy now... http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/pscmisc/vac/us/en/sm/calculators/index.html?jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN
i really like the interface for this
i think that's my biggest selling point, over any other factor
I always wanted one of these... http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-200-LX-Palmtop-2mb_W0QQitemZ140115781175QQihZ004QQcategoryZ50575QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Not much use now with PDA's
I'm VERY happy with my HP 20s
[00:13:48] <JymmmEMC> http://cgi.ebay.com/Hewlett-Packard-HP-20s-Scientific-Calculator-Made-USA_W0QQitemZ300110961532QQihZ020QQcategoryZ58039QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
It's funny, after having my 20s for 15 years, I finally had to change the batteries last year - ya gotta love it.
wow, someone added my email to a bunch of stupid mailing lists and spambots..
probally the guy i wouldn't tell how i made my logo :(
i got like 150 junk mails in the last 2 hours
robin_sz: you still here?
I take issue with "ESR goes up with voltage"
if you keep the same uF and raise the voltage, the ESR goes down, not up
ripple current rating goes up too
any ideas on a dc brushed motor getting hot?
i just tuned up a C axis with a copley, and the motor is getting hot, uncomfortably, not burning, but way past warm.
The drive responds well, stabile position to 0.001degrees, a bit slow to achieve position tho.
i'm afraid the magnets might get hurt by the heat
getting hot while just holding position?
maybe you don't have enough I gain to get it into position so the current drops
ok, i might see it on the i monitor output of the amp
yeah I'd definitely check current - it should drop once it's in place
03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/mesa_5i2x/5i2x_stepgen.c: update all stepgens, not just the first one
03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/at_pid.9:
-Fixed some inconsistencies.
-Added some more information on auto tuning.
03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/components/at_pid.c:
-Changed start-tune to tune-start for consistency.
-Update PID output continuously during auto-tune cycle so user can ramp
tune-effort until motion occurs.
03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/boss/boss.ini: -Removed test params.
03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/boss/boss.hal: -Removed test components.
03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/boss/pid_test.hal:
-Reduced BASE_PERIOD and SERVO_PERIOD.
03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/boss/pid_test.ini:
-Reduced BASE_PERIOD and SERVO_PERIOD.
[09:13:32] <alex_joni> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1790442.ece
alex_joni: seems like quite a bit of fun in your neck of the woods
Dallur: yeah, kinda
alex_joni: any idea who will prevail ?
Dallur: I have no doubt he'll be back
I mean the suspention will be invalidated by the people imo
then it will get interesting :P
alex_joni: ok, are most people with the president or is it split ?
I think he has the highest rating right now
if we had early elections he would win I think
that doesn't mean there aren't other people thinking otherwise
alex_joni: ok, but majority would probably side with him though
interesting that the USA has a similar situation though not as hostile, where the Parliament opposes the president
yeah, the difference is that we have a less tactfull president
he's one of the people that always say what they think
even if he knows no one will appreciate it :P
anyways.. gotta run now, I'll be back online later
lerman_ is now known as lerman
cradek_ is now known as cradek
cradek: could I get a lathe summery? :)
it works again
it seems to works right
the pluto works well now
Nice - how did the autotune work?
not really at all
the ZN algorithm seems very wrong for my lathe - I don't know why
(I have no doubt that the autotune does ZN correctly)
cradek: why's your lathe acting strange?
it works great when tuned manually
ah - so that is what it is doing.. Getting the period of oscolation to do the zn calc?
yes I think so
does anyone know if lerneaen_hydra has a website about his lathe?
cradek: do you think there just isn't enough mass in your system for the zn calc?
wouldnt that just require a faster measurement to work?
the oscillations are fast and short, so it may not really move the table mass
cradek, is there any backlash on the lathe?
that would significantly change the period for Z-N
SWPadnos: yes there is
ah.. I guess that can explain it..
maybe I should pull a belt off and try AT
backslash is hell.
* cradek grumbles at Aram K
cradek: is there a package with a emc with AT ?
no, it's in cvs trunk
if so I could try it out
I guess I could build it..
you have a servo emc machine?
with g320's right now..
though I could hook up the encoders to the usc..
bbiab - time to change the UPS battery :)
SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
doesn't your UPS have hotswap battery?
not the little one on the DSL modem and router
the big ones have hot-pluggable external batteries, but I think the internal ones aren't hot-swappable
oh - haha, very funny :)
(I was actually being serious)
I've always hotswapped mine (APC)
(I realized you could be joking about my very expensive equipment)
oh, it's possible that you can do that - these are older APC Back-UP 500s though, so I'm not sure
yeah I hot swap those :-)
now ask me if I'm sure you're supposed to be able to...
I only noticed that the batteries needed replacement when I was testing my servo transformer
the one where the front flips down?
I plugged it in a couple of times, and the circuit breaker popped
and the modem/router turned off ...
no, these have the panel on the bottom
oh maybe it's different
never mind, I'll stop bothering you about it
I have some Smart-UPS models as well - the 750VA ones with the flip-down door (the 40 pound ones)
hmmm. you know you're in trouble when `X -probeonly` results in a blank screen, with no ability to kill X (ctrl-alt-bksp) or switch to another virtual terminal
though I guess part of that might be the USB keyboard getting screwed up
I still haven't switched to believing usb keyboards are normal
but for that motherboard, it's the only option
I still haven't switched to believing motherboards with missing keyboard/mouse/parallel/serial ports are normal
no, they aren't
missing serial are common now...
this was one of the first "legacy-free" motherboards - the Abit AT7 I think
I had to really fight to hook a modem up to a new (crappy) intel board
12 USB ports, 6 IDE connectors (2 normal + 4 for RAID), network ...
plus FireWire and optical audio I/O
haha ide raid
but it really sucks that there's no friggin keyboard port
I'm just waiting for my 3Ware SATA RAID controller to arrive
it's too bad that SCSI is roughly 10x the cost of SATA (per gigabyte)
today sata is often just as fast I think
for single-user loads, that's true
SCSI still rules for miltiple access
yep - the high user count IOMeter results still have every SCSI/SAS drive performing better than any SATA/IDE drive
with the best SCSI being roughly twice as fast (in IOs /sec) than the best SATA
[16:23:04] <SWPadnos> http://www.storagereview.com/php/benchmark/bench_sort.php
you may have to select a test - I'm not sure it'll show up from that link
I did "IOMeter File Server 128 I/O"
hmmm. I guess you need this page instead: http://www.storagereview.com/comparison.html
how about I just believe you instead
regarding this beautiful thing: http://axis.unpy.net/files/01170693566/scara.png
is there a way that I can try it?
No, I don't have a Scara bot at home, but I would like to simulate it just to see how it works
is it possible to do that in the officialrelease of EMC2? If yes, what should I do?
very silence today...
everyone at work I think...
xemet: in TRUNK, just run configs/scara/scara.ini
ok,I will try
Hi all. I'm d/ling the ubuntu/emc build. Does anyone have a suggestion for a good dwg -> g-code app?
dwg as in autocad?
[18:36:13] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Cam
thx alex. what is the best, in your opinion?
I've just built a cnc router based off the rockcliff plans. I used old floppy steppers I scrounged, and I'd prefer to continue the "keep it cheap" ethic.
I'm trying to avoid Mach3 for that reason.
it depends what you need
router as in 2.5D engraving type work?
2D, 2.5D, 3D?
I have a 12"x12"x 4" working area
2.5D vs 3D doesn't describe the working area, it describes what kinds of cuts you want to make
2.5D means you are either cutting in XY, or moving Z, not both at the same time
imagine cutting various shapes out of a flat piece of metal to make a control panel
you'd go over to the next shape, down, cut the shape, up
all three axis move, but my tool is only attached to the z axis
so I can only do up/down cuts
does that make sense?
no we're not quite communicating yet
do you understand my description of 2.5D machining?
no problem really
no, not reallry. sorry
Jessxxxx: we all starting knowing what you know or less..
alex_joni: you try now :-)
Jessxxxx: imagine a sheet of metal
you all are much more forgiving thatn the #linuxhelp folks
you want to cut some holes in it, to mount some knobs and switches
(cut means mill)
then you want to engrave some names besides the holes
these are all 2.5D operations
you do move the Z axis (spindle) up and down
yes, i want to be able to do that. plus more. I know I cannot do undercuts with this setup.
right.. that would imply full 3D
ok, so it's just 2.5 then?
now you can go back to the page I pasted, and look for 2.5D solutions
and give them a go
I figured if I want to do undercuts, I'd flip the piece
I added one that was missing
Jessxxxx: yeah, ideally
but it's usually a pita to align it
do you have a suggestion for any of them? preferably newb friendly?
Jessxxxx: each and every of those has their problems
you need to find one that you can live with :D
no, none of them is a substitute for learning to write gcode
ok. I'm really excited! I've got the thing running repeability tests now, and I'm getting 1/8000" accuracy!
I **strongly** suggest that you start by learning how to write your first gcode by hand, using at least G0 and G1
later, you can maybe use one or more of those programs for more complex work
but cutting out a rectangle is *always* going to be easier to write by hand than to use any of those programs
cradek, I was hoping to go from acad v14 to a g-code generator to my machine. is this realistic?
I think cradek wrote some acad -> gcode converter :)
depends what you have in autocad. it's probably not realistic.
*smiles at alex* I guess I came to the right place!
Jessxxxx: it's a bad thing to assume CAD == CAM
the shape (CAD) is one thing
but describing the operations (CAM) is a completely different thing
i thought the g-code converter did all that?
and simple converters looking _only_ at the shape seldom guess what needs to be done
imagine inside vs. outside cuts
order of cuts (if you have pieces that fall out)
say you want to mill a wheel with some spikes in it
if the converter decides to do the outside cut first.. then you have no chance of finishing the inside
I guess I have a lot of learning to do! I built this to mill art and jewlery pieces. I'm much more of an artist than a machinist.
I'm thinking of writing a raster program that can read bitmaps are cut them into my media.
... bitmaps and cut...
I also might cut some PCBs for future projects.
EMC2 has some built-in image to gcode conversion that works quite well
I'll look at those links, but are there any that I should steer away from or to?
Jessxxxx: if you want image to gcode.. use the one in emc2
simply open an image from AXIS, and you'll get a conversion GUI
ok. but what about dwg to gcode?
I use (and wrote) REALIZE, which lets you draw 2.5D tool paths (*not* parts) in autocad
I'll cheeck it out, cra
if you expect to draw parts, or start with a drawing suitable for plotting etc, none of them are really going to work.
why is that, crad?
because that's the domain of CAM software, which really has nothing to do with autocad
autocad is for making drawings, not parts
crad, what about inventor?
I don't know what that is
autocraps solid modeler
it's the newest 3d autocad for cam applications.
or so I thought
arch, I take it you don't like it?
I have no idea, my autocad is R12 and I will never spend the money for anything else
*smiles* mine is v14 and I feel the same. Got mine in school.
solidworks is good
(a long time ago!)
mine's also from a special deal from the college days
apparently only a little longer ago
documentation for emc2's image-to-gcode: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/gui/image-to-gcode/index.html
(there's also a copy in the PDF documentation in the Applications/CNC menu)
any CAM system is going to be $thousands. In your place I'd spend some time examining what it really takes to do what I want, instead of dumping money on something that you might not even need
Ok. so, I'm d/ling the ubuntu / emc ISO image. I've not used ubuntu. Only RH 9, and a few older linuxs. anything I need to know?
yeah, it'll work nicer
( i have no money!!! )
(I'm a RH9 convert too)
then don't worry about CAM, and learn gcode instead. Can you program at all?
can I boot the ISO image to a windows box w/o messing up my existing config? (or, atleast w/o messing it up more than microsoft already has)?
yes you can run EMC when booted 'live'
*blushes* I write basic, html, and a -very- little assembler.
if you can program even a little, and you know gcode, you can write many useful simple programs to generate gcode to do meaningful things
I write them all poorly
that's cool, you could pick up the basics of any language then
Heck guys, I do stained glass and jewlery, not coding!
well I can play the violin - doesn't mean I can't write gcode :-)
crad, does the bitmap app in emc handle different cut depths? like for different shades of gray?
* JymmmEMC starts to say something, then changes his mind.
Jessxxxx: yes that's exactly what it does
it generates paths over it, with the depth being the gray value
how it works is very configurable
and, if I dedicate a machine to running the ubuntu/emc, can I control it via x-windows from somewhere else?
Jessxxxx: yes, using X to remotely display the GUI is the most common way of running emc remotely
Jessxxxx: also look at ace converter - it does dxf-g-code.. I have used it with no major issues.
I have an old, slow pentium setting around. can the bundle run on an underpowered machine, just slowly? or will that be a waste of time?
is ace freeware, skunk?
[19:08:36] <skunkworks> http://www.dakeng.com/ace.html
hmmm... ace is only 2d?
um - but it is windows just so you know
np, skunk. my acad is also.
Jessxxxx: well the live CD installer says it requires 256 megs and some people report that it doesn't actually install reliably with only 256 megs (they typically upgrade to 384 or 512)
Just be aware that any raster-to-gcode program will require the image to be clean to get good results, so I hope your good at photoshop or the equiv.
dxf is pretty much 2D... it's for plotting, remember
if you get into full 3d - your probably going to have to spend some money on cad/cam.
i rock in photoshop
Jessxxxx: the slowest machines I know people are running emc on are in the 500MHz range
if you find something decent open-source let me know.
crad, doesn't dxf support 3 axis of information?
* skunkworks ran it on a 400mhz pII for a while. (axis)
axis is part of the ubuntu/emc bundle?
Yes - axis is part of emc2. Jepler/cradek developed it.
dang! I am hanging in good company!
they did a wonderful job with it.
ty all for all your help
Jessxxxx: That'll be $27.50 pay at the door as you leave.
ok. I'll leave it by my door. Will you be over later to pick it up?
Jessxxxx: Will send skunkworks over, it's for the "Get skunkworks something faster than a P2 fund"
I have a feeling I'll be back, but I'll head out now and digest what you've told me.
JymmmEMC: it is now running on a pIII 600mhz
skunkworks: Fine, beer money then.
my test platform is a toshiba libretto running at 120mhz. But it's cute!!!!
I have too many hobbies to have money for beer.
Jessxxxx: As in laptop?
yes... micro mini
a friend of mine had one of those .. small machine
no, just qbasic to the paralelle port
Jessxxxx: Grab the LiveCD, run md5sum on the ido you download, then run the REALTime test before you do anythign else.
(sorry 'bout the spelling. I'm dyslexic)
so are my fingers
that's ok, skunkworks also can't spell and we like him just fine
jepler: we do? OH YEAH, we do!
oh no!!! the libretto is not to run my apps on!!! it's just for testing my steppers and such
I have a faster laptop (1.2G) for that
I don't have any excuses for my spelling
Jessxxxx: Still a good idea to run the REAL TIME Test on any machien you use
skunkworks: None needed, we speak typo
Jessxxxx: lots of times - laptops have problem with realtime
if I disable power settings?
if if you do that
like JymmmEMC says - run the latency tests
sheesh... i don't have another machine. foo
well cross your fingers ;)
ok. well, i'll get started on all this. thanks again. I'll be back after i get the image up and running.
see yo usoon
you all were great!!!! thanks soooo much!
Jessxxxx: Be sure to MD5SUM the ISO you download, and it wouldn't hurt if you burn it only at 4x speed
i'd make ya dinner if you were closer!
md5sum??? what is that?
know what I found out the hardwaay the other day....
I was gonna use a windows app?
mach 3 is not functional in demo mode
Jessxxxx: How do you know we're not your neighbors?!?!?!
* Unit41 slaps forhead
[19:22:30] <jepler> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM
God forbid, jymmm!
Jessxxxx: ^^ those pages explain what MD5SUM is, and why you should do it
Jessxxxx: MD5SUM is a way of checking to make sure the file you downloaded is correct.
Jessxxxx: So, where you at?
southern indiana. hickville!
I used to live in London, but I lost my work visa
what is skunk works ?
and you, jymmm?
Jessxxxx: Anywhere near Shelbyville?
I think about an hour.
is that you, jymmm?
Jessxxxx: Nope, just messing with you =)
Jessxxxx: Call it what it is.... Class, can you say "Smartass"?
some time I hope to get a dorkbot or maker group here. but there are too many farmers and not enuf engineers!
mach 3 is limited to 999 lines of code is what it says but I had ahell of a time setting it up
and too flat! LOL
so I drew my own conclusion
jymmm, my sunday school teacher told me that ladies don't talk that way.
Jessxxxx: She was single huh?
*grins* I told her to fuck off...
you were an evil poster child ?
*blushes* who? me? sweet lil ol me?
my nick name used to be dennis the mennis too
NOW we're in trouble.
put on your hip waiders... it's getting deep
Jessxxxx: Never took em off
ok. I'm really gonna go now! I want to try this EMC out!!!
talk to you all soon!
look he's even got a wet suit under that
and a shovel and back hoe on standby
and vac truck
damn! I knew I forgot something
hydrovac even incase we gotta dig a trench
only if it's CNC controlled
a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
time to pick some rocks.... my third hobby
[19:56:44] <cradek> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=30-328-012
wow I wonder why this one's so cheap
looks like it's in pretty bad shape
maybe it was left in the rain a little too long
it's manual .. rusty .. no spindle .. and that's just what you can see from the photo
sorry, I was joking
your humor is too subtle for me
[19:58:27] <cradek> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=06-211-004
this one is cool, but might take a little work
how much do you have to pay them to be allowed to leave the controller there instead of taking it too?
* alex_joni agrees with jeff, way too subtle
how about moving the controller to the other one?
then it might be worth 500$
then they sit on a machien that nobody wants =)
If ya want the controller, you buy the crappy ass machien that goes with it!
cradek: I checked, and there are no spare outputs on the parport when you're using EPP mode, except the one called "Reset" which I am already using as the device reset on emc exit
jepler: you can redefine the pin?
so if you need "fast thread" digital outputs you're stuck using a separate port
jepler: no problem, that's what I expected
JymmmEMC: no, EPP defines what all the pins are, and if you want to take advantage of the dedicated chip in your PC for EPP mode you can't change that
jepler: Ah, ok. Does the same apply to (iirc) EPC ?
JymmmEMC: I dunno, the only modes I've studied are SPP and EPP.
ok, gotcha. =)
cradek: didn't roland have some mills he was giving away? did you look at any of them? Or am I making things up?
there are some unused inputs (to the PC), I wonder if there's some use for those
he was giving away one machining center, but it was one of those that's the size of a bus
cradek: Mobile CNC ?
heh, add a third transfer case and you got a 3rd axis =)
who needs /steppers/servos when to got a big block =)
cradek: another terrible idea that comes to mind is filtering a pluto PWM output to analog, then using that in a 555 timer circuit or with a microcontroller that has adc, to create a driving waveform that is appropriate for the RC servo
(I suppose with the micro you can also count the pulse width directly from a digital input)
lol, and you wonder why murder is illegal.
It's no wonder why some animals kill theri young at birth.
hamsters eat the retarded babies
It seems that many animals actually sense that. Birds too.
good job that trait isn;t evident in humans
i'm sure it would happen if it was legal in some cases
if it was, well, insurance salesmen would be a rare breed
would be extinct
wait.. who is sposed to be getting shot here Jymmm?
lol.. me or the other guy....
i might not like where this is going
If the bullet fits....
i think this man's commanding officer should get a forwarded copy
nah, jymm is too easy a target
for the books...
haha the second screenshot that kde.org uses to promote their next version is ... a screenshot of the "your application just crashed" dialog
I don't thik ive eaver shot a Jymmm ... wonder if I could have it mounted on a board above the fireplace?
wait.. who is sposed to be getting shot here, Jymmm? <- re-grammerized sentence... for: robin_sz
cam you say that?
i just did!... lol
*new wword.. call the dictionary people
i also forwarded that email back to the linug-sig email group.. ehh.. they might kick me out.. but oh well...
see.. if you have the internet and a cnc machine.. you don't need television!
Sapote_reloaded is now known as Sapote
Gotta love NetFlix
good night all
good night Alex
03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/lathe-pluto/ (lathe-pluto.ini lathe-pluto.hal): new power supply etc., scaling and tuning updates
sooo...i cut some threads on a manual lathe today...
i couldn't get it to do anything but 16 tpi
change gears or gearbox?
i guess the boss told me it's from the 1930's... and it doesn't have any gears except whats on it
and it's thier buddy's lathe and they don't know anything about it
well you could sure have it worse than 16 then
any word up on some gears for it?
othewr than making them?
maybe ebay - some folks make sets for common lathes
i read in my machinery's handbook from 1930 that i can make them
I suppose that's true in some sense
i just need a divinding head and a calculator on th ebridgeport
and a cutter with the right form
if it was my lathe.. or even the shop's i'd do it
i'll just talk the guy who owns it into buying some
Unit41 is now known as Unition
i had never cut threads before though without cnc
it was fun i learned something!
03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/lathe-pluto/lathe-pluto.ini: oops
does it have a compound feed?
what angle did you use?
i used 90 to play around at first. then the boss was like uh turn that to 30 deg. buddy
"and put your tool like this"
29, not 30
i had no instruction, i decided i was going to figure it out with the mach. handbook and apc. of scrap...
he did mention the 29...
how did the thread turn out? could you put a nut on it?
well, i didn't go that far yet
i don't even know what dia it was...
ah that's a little bit important for the nut :-)
i could now though.. that i got paid.. ;) to play around for a few hours.. do it to a print
buy a machinery's handbook from ebay.. a really old one if you don't have already.. AWESOME!
i have one here from 1946
and a newer one at work
I bet the stuff you use the most hasn't changed since then
formulas... gear ratio's
it'slike 2,000 pages of genius and wisdom!
you can even learn things from the index
i would like to see the difference files on this thing though...
from version to version and see if it was only typos or if they made serious erros that would cause you to crash a lot or something.. lol
or new info i'd guess being added
i made a kid at work read it today about sharpening drill bits...
well, requested that he read it...
ah ah ah ah stayin alive
cradek: your lathe's max speed went down?
re: machinery's handbook
they've removed some of the odd techniques for milling cams/gears
on manual machines
and added stuff about tooling
there are also very decent alternatives to the handbook
depending on your equipment level
what are some decent alternativies?
i think i have the name of one hanging around
let me look
"handbook for the metalworking industries" is one i've heard a couple dudes swear by
published by Modern Machine Shop magazine
can't find the others
the metalworking handbook apparently has a lot more cnc stuff