#emc | Logs for 2007-05-09

[00:03:30] <robin_sz> meep?
[00:04:12] <JymmmEMC> woooooof
[00:04:41] <ohiopctechDOTcom> hello...
[00:04:48] <SWPadnos> arrrrrrr
[00:05:02] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: you animal!
[00:05:10] <SWPadnos> arrrrrrrrr
[00:05:50] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC grabs a stick and shakes it in front of SWPadnos... "Here boy, come on.... FECTH"
[00:06:19] <robin_sz> avast!
[00:20:12] <a-l-p-h-a> wuzzup folks.
[00:20:19] <a-l-p-h-a> haven't said a peep in a few weeks seems like
[00:20:43] <a-l-p-h-a> JymmmEMC, you should check out this framework... www.symfony-project.org it's kick ass.
[00:21:30] <ohiopctechDOTcom> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r2aZ3llqok&NR=1 <- perm magnetic slide
[00:21:41] <ohiopctechDOTcom> linear*
[00:22:21] <a-l-p-h-a> what's it say in englaise?
[00:24:01] <a-l-p-h-a> he needs to make it LONGER!
[00:24:09] <ohiopctechDOTcom> Permanently magnet line accelerator V1,1
[00:24:20] <ohiopctechDOTcom> german to enrish transration
[00:24:33] <ohiopctechDOTcom> engrish*
[00:24:39] <a-l-p-h-a> that's NEAT... but I wonder that practical applications there are.
[00:24:58] <ohiopctechDOTcom> how big of magnets you got?
[00:25:04] <ohiopctechDOTcom> you could move anything
[00:25:07] <a-l-p-h-a> see it's not exactly a smooth acceleration.
[00:25:10] <a-l-p-h-a> it's very jittery.
[00:25:27] <a-l-p-h-a> ohiopctechDOTcom, yeah... we can move almost anything already... it's called 'wheels'. :)
[00:25:36] <ohiopctechDOTcom> well, i bet if his placement was more precision and he used electro magnets where he could control the power of each...
[00:25:57] <a-l-p-h-a> ohiopctechDOTcom, that's called a maglev then.
[00:26:15] <a-l-p-h-a> there's a version 2.4
[00:27:03] <ohiopctechDOTcom> http://babelfish.altavista.com
[00:27:52] <a-l-p-h-a> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch9X0KqQP5o&NR=1 this one would have more of a practical application... for forward motion.
[00:28:03] <ohiopctechDOTcom> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCr3lOhMJCg
[00:29:41] <a-l-p-h-a> so that's what it's called... a calloway gate/
[00:32:33] <ohiopctechDOTcom> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trws3k9vq6M <- awesome
[00:35:17] <a-l-p-h-a> it even looks COOL... I'd ride it.
[00:35:38] <a-l-p-h-a> it's silent though... :/ kinda sucky for that aspect.
[00:35:49] <a-l-p-h-a> reminds me of robotech.
[00:35:51] <ohiopctechDOTcom> put a card in the spokes
[00:35:55] <a-l-p-h-a> buahhaha.
[00:35:58] <a-l-p-h-a> old skewl!
[00:36:18] <a-l-p-h-a> YES! mandatory Japanese chick with a short skirt.
[00:36:24] <toastydeath> fffff
[00:36:42] <ohiopctechDOTcom> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eNdU9QQZUk <-- a more attainable electric bike
[00:39:22] <a-l-p-h-a> I like that.
[00:39:49] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i g9otta get one of those motors
[00:39:53] <a-l-p-h-a> 35 mph... that isn't bad at all.
[00:45:29] <ohiopctechDOTcom> http://www.rsdbikes.com/bicyclemotors.html <- a place to buy the motors
[00:47:33] <a-l-p-h-a> I'd so do it if I was I was in the city... but I'm in the burbs.
[00:47:43] <a-l-p-h-a> and my commute is 20 - 25 minutes, and I carpool.
[00:47:57] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i could sell my car and buy one.. i work 3 mins from here
[00:48:15] <ohiopctechDOTcom> but it's be hard to bring home dumpster dive finds on a bike
[00:48:16] <a-l-p-h-a> ohiopctechDOTcom, no insurance. no gas.
[00:48:23] <a-l-p-h-a> ohiopctechDOTcom,FRIENDS.
[00:48:28] <a-l-p-h-a> you have them right? ;)
[00:48:35] <SWPadnos> not if he had no car
[00:48:38] <a-l-p-h-a> I have a friend that drives a escape hybrid...
[00:48:49] <a-l-p-h-a> SWPadnos, how goes dude?
[00:48:51] <SWPadnos> funny, so do I
[00:48:59] <a-l-p-h-a> how's jmkasunich's progress on mesa step/dir setup?
[00:48:59] <SWPadnos> it goes OK, how about you?
[00:49:03] <ohiopctechDOTcom> uh i have a few select people i associate with
[00:49:10] <ohiopctechDOTcom> there is too many crazies around dayton
[00:49:15] <SWPadnos> pretty well, but some people (like me) kepp interrupting him :) )
[00:49:20] <SWPadnos> keep
[00:49:24] <a-l-p-h-a> isn't dayton, KKK county?
[00:49:31] <a-l-p-h-a> [no seriously asking]
[00:49:37] <ohiopctechDOTcom> not really
[00:49:40] <SWPadnos> not in Ohio, I don't think
[00:50:20] <ohiopctechDOTcom> there is a buncha rednecks that think they are awesome though... and rich white kids who think they are gangsters/rappers
[00:50:38] <SWPadnos> with REALLY BIG TRUCKS
[00:50:41] <a-l-p-h-a> WRITGH BROS!.
[00:51:04] <ohiopctechDOTcom> yes the wright brothers grew up about 10 miles from here
[00:51:08] <ohiopctechDOTcom> maybe only 8
[00:51:20] <ohiopctechDOTcom> here being my house*
[00:51:35] <a-l-p-h-a> 20% single women that own homes??
[00:51:43] <ohiopctechDOTcom> and ncr started here i believe
[00:52:00] <ohiopctechDOTcom> and it's one of the busiest tool n die cities in the states
[00:52:20] <a-l-p-h-a> The median age is 32 years. For every 100 females there were 93.1 males, while For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 89.6 males.
[00:52:25] <a-l-p-h-a> odds are good for a man to get laid.
[00:52:29] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i don't get into statistics
[00:52:41] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i get laid plenty.. no complaints
[00:52:56] <a-l-p-h-a> ohiopctechDOTcom, no complaints, cause... oh too easy
[00:53:07] <a-l-p-h-a> The median income for a household in the city was $27,523, and the median income for a family was $34,978. Males had a median income of $30,816 versus $24,937 for females. The per capita income for the city was $15,547. About 18.2% of families and 23.0% of the population were below the poverty line, including 32.0% of those under age 18 and 15.3% of those age 65 or over... kinda poor. wonder what the buying power of that money is
[00:53:22] <SWPadnos> I think it may have been 27,524
[00:53:33] <a-l-p-h-a> 9th most impoverished city in the USA.
[00:53:47] <ohiopctechDOTcom> is that dayton stats?
[00:53:48] <ohiopctechDOTcom> lol
[00:53:55] <a-l-p-h-a> yes
[00:54:02] <ohiopctechDOTcom> where did they come from?
[00:54:18] <a-l-p-h-a> 3rd highest crime rate in US. Behind Cleveland and Cincinnati
[00:54:46] <ohiopctechDOTcom> hmm... there is an awful lot of murders
[00:56:31] <a-l-p-h-a> there's no WKRP channel?
[00:56:37] <SWPadnos> hmmm, all in Ohio
[00:56:42] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ther eis an automation shop or tool n die shop on every block round her e almost
[00:56:56] <a-l-p-h-a> cause of GM and delphi
[00:56:57] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i think wkrp is real
[00:57:12] <SWPadnos> I guess Ohio is the killingest state in the union (at least per capita)
[00:57:25] <ohiopctechDOTcom> there is at least 4 gm/delphi plants within 15 mins of me
[00:57:33] <a-l-p-h-a> what happened in Ohio, where someone dropped live animals out of a helicopter... chickens, and they died on impact?
[00:57:39] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:57:44] <SWPadnos> it was turkeys
[00:57:56] <SWPadnos> "As God is my witness, I swear I thought turkeys could fly"
[00:58:01] <ohiopctechDOTcom> <-- against union.... they disturb me.. the union workers
[00:58:16] <SWPadnos> great show that was
[00:58:20] <ohiopctechDOTcom> dayton is prolly the reason gm is dying lol.. the lazy workers are sucking them dry
[00:58:58] <ohiopctechDOTcom> every other day there is some UAW guy on tv crying about how he is mad at gm
[00:59:05] <ohiopctechDOTcom> *on the news
[00:59:31] <SWPadnos> big unions can often be as bad as big companies
[00:59:31] <a-l-p-h-a> http://politicsofdancing.blogspot.com/2006/11/as-god-is-my-witness-i-thought-turkeys.html hehe... that show was funny
[00:59:37] <ohiopctechDOTcom> hey... there is 6 strip bars within 5 mins of me!
[01:00:03] <a-l-p-h-a> ohiopctechDOTcom, any of them fully nude?
[01:00:21] <SWPadnos> and ohiopctechDOTcom says "I dunno, let me check" ...
[01:00:22] <ohiopctechDOTcom> hmm... there is one about 20 mins away that is
[01:00:37] <a-l-p-h-a> that sucks...
[01:00:56] <a-l-p-h-a> I have on that's 5 minutes away, but it's on the other side of the highway, and they charge cover.
[01:01:13] <a-l-p-h-a> I have one that's 30 minutes away, that used to give handjobs. that's pretty gross.
[01:01:16] <ohiopctechDOTcom> drill a hole in the backwal and use a periscope
[01:01:24] <a-l-p-h-a> ones in Niagra falls, give BJs... that's fucked up too.
[01:01:25] <toastydeath> or start making friends that like to be naked
[01:01:35] <toastydeath> it's much cheaper?
[01:01:40] <a-l-p-h-a> I have a GF...
[01:01:40] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ther eis some chinese massage aprlors int he area.. happy endings.. shhh
[01:01:43] <SWPadnos> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZByndN_ffyw
[01:01:45] <a-l-p-h-a> and having a GF doesn't make things cheaper.
[01:01:50] <a-l-p-h-a> you pay for it one way or another.
[01:02:00] <ohiopctechDOTcom> gf's are too expensive
[01:02:05] <toastydeath> my girlfriend doesn't cost me like, anything
[01:02:23] <toastydeath> hoo rah
[01:02:28] <a-l-p-h-a> toastydeath, you're broke ass poor? or she's just a blow up doll?
[01:02:34] <ohiopctechDOTcom> bahhh.. girls
[01:02:57] <toastydeath> no, she's just cooler than most other girlfriends, apparently
[01:03:04] <a-l-p-h-a> toastydeath, dinner. theatre tickets, gas to drive to places.
[01:03:10] <toastydeath> she drives most of the time
[01:03:18] <toastydeath> and i have not once taken her out to dinner
[01:03:18] <ohiopctechDOTcom> hmm.. i wish i could find a hot readhead girl who loves cnc machines... lol
[01:03:25] <toastydeath> i think i bought her a movie ticket once
[01:03:38] <toastydeath> but she has bought me movie tickets many times
[01:03:52] <a-l-p-h-a> drinks?
[01:03:57] <a-l-p-h-a> sporting events?
[01:03:58] <toastydeath> i don't drink in public
[01:04:01] <toastydeath> don't go to sporting events
[01:04:03] <ohiopctechDOTcom> my ex gf gave me a $3,500 check once to pay on my mortgage...
[01:04:05] <ohiopctechDOTcom> :|
[01:04:12] <toastydeath> (i've never bought her a drink in public, either)
[01:04:16] <toastydeath> i have bought her booze at home, though
[01:04:26] <toastydeath> she buys me a lot of stuff
[01:04:29] <toastydeath> for no reason
[01:04:37] <toastydeath> so whatever i spend on her is very much balanced out
[01:05:19] <toastydeath> i have noticed other girls behave the same way if you are authoritative
[01:05:24] <toastydeath> or at least the girls I tend to date
[01:05:47] <toastydeath> different strokes/folks/etc
[01:08:32] <SWPadnos> strangely enough, I think some of my interest in machinery is wearing off onto my wife
[01:08:59] <SWPadnos> we were at a car auction this past Saturday, and I saw a flatbed tow truck. I thought "Hmmm - that could be useful"
[01:09:10] <SWPadnos> you know, moving machinery around, whatever
[01:09:22] <SWPadnos> I figured I'd definitely pay $1500 for it, maybe $2500
[01:09:44] <SWPadnos> so my wife comes over and says "cool - a tow truck. how much do you think they want for it?"
[01:10:01] <SWPadnos> (we found out they wanted $6k or so, which I think is too much)
[01:10:27] <SWPadnos> I think it's pretty cool that my wife would even *consider* getting a tow truck to move machinery :)
[01:12:45] <a-l-p-h-a> heh... I just found out today, that my work will allow me to torrent shit through the 10/2meg connection...
[01:12:44] <toastydeath> lol nice
[01:12:57] <toastydeath> a-l-p-h-a: a+
[01:13:14] <a-l-p-h-a> the sys admin, goes, just let me know what port number you want.
[01:13:16] <a-l-p-h-a> hahaha
[01:13:31] <toastydeath> niiice
[01:13:57] <a-l-p-h-a> get that, my ipod usb cable, or my 2gig key... and I'm rolling.
[01:14:02] <a-l-p-h-a> or a dvd or two...
[02:06:58] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/nc_files/tool-length-probe.ngc: this is needed for more than two tools
[02:23:41] <ohiopctechDOTcom> http://www.expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Free_pcb_layout_software.htm <-- free pcb software.. has dxf output.
[02:24:19] <ohiopctechDOTcom> *i have been playing with it, i drew a db25 breakout board
[02:26:05] <jepler> I should try the free-as-in-freedom pcb layout software again
[02:32:22] <SWPadnos> I wonder if ExpressPCB is any better than when I last tried it
[02:32:43] <eric_u> sparkfun looks like the best deal
[02:32:49] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i dunno, i just stumbled across and and figured i'd check it out
[02:33:00] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i'm not going to mill the pcb i drew but it did export
[02:33:49] <SWPadnos> I don't remember what I hated about it, but I do remember disliking it a lot
[02:33:57] <ohiopctechDOTcom> such anger...
[02:34:22] <SWPadnos> of course, I don't really like eagle either, but I know lots of people do great work with it :)
[02:34:41] <SWPadnos> heh - I got used to fairly high end PCB / schematic tools years ago - it's har dto go back
[02:34:46] <SWPadnos> ... hard to ...
[02:36:25] <jepler> ohiopctechDOTcom: what format can their software export? I figured it was locked in to their board production service
[02:36:26] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i only made a few pcbs, we drew them on the pcb stock with a pen/marker and etched them in a hombrew aquarium etcher thingy my teacher made
[02:36:43] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it output .dxf
[02:37:03] <ohiopctechDOTcom> that i can play with in my cam
[02:37:04] <SWPadnos> heh - did that many years ago
[02:37:42] <jepler> milled circuit boards are great. http://timeguy.com/cradek/cnc/pcb
[02:38:09] <jepler> assuming you've got a working cnc setup anyway
[02:38:36] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i do i do: http://youtube.com/ohiopctech/
[02:38:38] <SWPadnos> yeah - the CNC thing helps a lot for milling PCBs
[02:39:35] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i'd thought about bringing it to the cnc fest thing but it doesn't seem do-able this year
[02:39:41] <ohiopctechDOTcom> *my mini machine
[02:39:54] <ohiopctechDOTcom> you guys would be amazed!
[02:40:24] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ok, it's no 6 axis beast.. :|
[02:41:13] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i am thinking my first pcb needs to be a solar panel powered battery trickle carger..
[02:41:14] <jepler> I assume that having a 6 axis machine just means always wishing you had decent 6-axis cam software
[02:41:29] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i hope to someday run my whole house on solar power and or wind power
[02:42:06] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i was looking for a schematic of one when i found that pcb software
[02:42:42] <ohiopctechDOTcom> *first cnc milled pcb that is...
[02:49:28] <cradek> skunkworks: I just milled a complex PCB (7 tool changes) with tool length sensing - it worked perfectly
[02:50:25] <ohiopctechDOTcom> do you have a pic of your touchpad switch cradek? i'd like to peek at it
[02:50:46] <cradek> you'd only laugh
[02:50:56] <ohiopctechDOTcom> oh no... i bet not
[02:50:57] <cradek> it's a lever microswitch screwed to a little piece of wood
[02:51:05] <ohiopctechDOTcom> you should see some contraptions i have built,
[02:51:07] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ;)
[02:51:19] <cradek> the wood is in a lathe tool post which sort of fits the T slot on the mill
[02:51:21] <ohiopctechDOTcom> that's what i would have tried
[02:51:33] <ohiopctechDOTcom> before i invested in building a whole fancy get-up
[02:51:55] <ohiopctechDOTcom> lol @ sort of
[02:52:01] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ok, i laughed.. sorry
[02:52:20] <cradek> haha that's ok, I did too
[02:52:31] <ohiopctechDOTcom> if it works.. that all that matters
[02:53:48] <cradek> amazingly the repeatability is way under .001 inch
[02:54:07] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i bought 6 lever action's from jameco a few weeks ago
[02:54:13] <ohiopctechDOTcom> haven't used them for anything yet
[02:54:33] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it was going to be limits. but i don't really need them.. jsut an extra hassle...
[02:54:38] <ohiopctechDOTcom> on the mini mill anyways
[02:55:16] <ohiopctechDOTcom> so is the code in 2.1.5?
[02:55:27] <ohiopctechDOTcom> or still cvs...
[02:56:02] <jepler> cvs TRUNK
[02:56:51] <jepler> I have a feeling you can get the same effect (as runtime tool lengths) by changing the G5x offset but I don't want to
[02:56:55] <jepler> try to get that code right
[02:57:01] <jepler> (and the preview plot will not look as "right"
[02:57:05] <jepler> )
[02:58:28] <cradek> or g92
[02:59:03] <cradek> actually would be a good use for it
[02:59:27] <SWPadnos> hmmm. is there a fest discussion topic in there somewhere?
[03:02:08] <jepler> 'night guys
[03:02:17] <SWPadnos> see you jepler
[03:02:20] <ohiopctechDOTcom> later yo
[03:08:03] <cradek> not really - I think g43 is the best way to do tool length (obviously) so we need not bother with any other schemes
[03:08:55] <SWPadnos> ok. the comments brought up some dim recollection of past conversations about offsets in general (or something like that)
[03:09:24] <cradek> well there's "why we all hate g92" but that's been beat to death really
[03:10:17] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i hate g92 because it called my mother a WH**E
[03:10:26] <SWPadnos> that could have been it - or the fact that the GUIs all do (did?) things differently when you do the same functions (set axis position or some such)
[03:11:52] <ohiopctechDOTcom> http://ohiopctech.com/cnc/harleywdk/ <- two pcs. of lexan i cut on the mini mill, the harley logo came out nice for a first run!
[03:19:50] <cradek> cnc is cool.
[03:20:15] <cradek> free (freedom) cnc is cooler.
[03:20:38] <ohiopctechDOTcom> preach on brotha... lol
[03:24:31] <cradek> wild - I was just puzzling over a .013 difference in measured tool length that seemed like an error, but I find that one of my tool holders is longer than the rest
[03:25:12] <ohiopctechDOTcom> a nick? or chinese engrish import?
[03:25:15] <cradek> I always assumed they were all the same - I'm surprised that didn't cause me noticable trouble
[03:25:31] <cradek> they were custom made by a USAian guy
[03:26:26] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i did see them... on the website! i think it was...
[03:27:52] <ohiopctechDOTcom> http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/08/21/stove-from-unexploded-bomb/ not cnc related, but similarly amazing***
[03:31:31] <ohiopctechDOTcom> http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/04/25/inside-the-biggest-man-made-brain/ <- will emc run on that?
[03:33:16] <gringos> how much is a sheet of plexi these days ?
[03:33:33] <gringos> 4x8
[03:33:41] <gringos> 1/2
[03:33:51] <gringos> inch thickness
[03:34:01] <cradek> try asking the internet
[03:34:36] <SWPadnos> $312.13
[03:34:56] <gringos> 4x8 1/8" Plexiglass sheet is $50 apx
[03:35:10] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i got my lexan for free by cutting parts for my buddy...
[03:35:15] <ohiopctechDOTcom> woohoo!
[03:35:16] <SWPadnos> this (internet) place has that at $75-ish
[03:35:28] <SWPadnos> lexan is much more expensive than plexiglass, AFAIK
[03:35:33] <petev> cradek, do you understand tcl?
[03:35:53] <cradek> petev: define understand
[03:36:00] <petev> yes
[03:36:06] <SWPadnos> "Taxing Computer Language"
[03:36:14] <ohiopctechDOTcom> http://www.vintageprojects.com/lathe-milling-plans.html
[03:36:26] <petev> I'm looking at line 107 of emccalib.tcl which appears to be creating a menu, but I don't see one when I run it
[03:36:37] <petev> yeah, it's giving me a headache
[03:38:24] <cradek> you may need ". configure -menu $menubar"
[03:38:31] <cradek> (untested)
[03:39:05] <SWPadnos> is that in tcl/bin or tcl/scripts or scripts/ ?
[03:39:12] <petev> tcl/bin
[03:39:12] <cradek> SWPadnos: yes
[03:39:16] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:39:27] <SWPadnos> hmmm - I sense a fest discussion topic coming on :)
[03:40:01] <cradek> petev: yes by some miracle I correctly guessed an entire working line of tcl on the first try
[03:40:15] <ohiopctechDOTcom> do you guys plan on discussing the war in iraq and how to get them using emc2 there?
[03:40:17] <SWPadnos> but does it do what you intended?
[03:40:24] <petev> I can't beleive this $hit was invented by a cal professor
[03:40:24] <cradek> SWPadnos: yes, that's the amazing part
[03:40:32] <SWPadnos> wow! O_O
[03:40:41] <petev> I always thought forth was a fine language for use in tools
[03:40:46] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:40:47] <cradek> petev: remember it's very old.
[03:40:56] <petev> I think it was done int he 90s
[03:40:58] <SWPadnos> terminal control language or some such, I think
[03:41:02] <petev> forth is older than that
[03:41:09] <petev> tool control language
[03:41:23] <SWPadnos> tool command language :)
[03:41:33] <petev> it was supposed to be a scripting language for embedding into applications
[03:41:44] <gringos> pike
[03:41:48] <ohiopctechDOTcom> tiny critters loose!
[03:43:03] <gringos> time to upgrade xchat
[03:43:04] <cradek> "tcl causes lunacy"
[03:43:15] <cradek> haha I win with the recursive acronym
[03:43:34] <SWPadnos> that's circular lamentation
[03:43:39] <petev> cradek, did you put that line after the menu was setup?
[03:44:01] <cradek> it has to go after the `set menubar ...'
[03:44:12] <gringos> gringos is now known as Unit41
[03:44:13] <petev> ok
[03:44:17] <cradek> `set a 1' is assignment
[03:44:28] <cradek> then you use $a
[03:44:52] <cradek> "tcl cursory lesson"
[03:45:08] <SWPadnos> tcl crappy language
[03:45:12] <cradek> ha
[03:45:15] <cradek> ok you win
[03:45:21] <SWPadnos> engrish though
[03:45:24] <petev> yeah, I figured that out, have to call a freakin proc to do an assignment
[03:45:34] <Unit41> emc source code confuses the ever living crap out of me
[03:45:46] <SWPadnos> join the club
[03:45:48] <cradek> petev: wait 'til you find out that you have to put the {} in particular places
[03:45:58] <SWPadnos> err - do you have any specific questions?
[03:46:04] <cradek> SWPadnos: I was just going to ask that
[03:46:08] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:46:07] <petev> yeah, that was driving me crazy as was []
[03:46:19] <petev> and then () on arrays or something like that
[03:46:39] <petev> but you can't seem to use them like a regular var
[03:46:44] <SWPadnos> but be careful with exec / spawn (or whatever it is) - tcl uses its own globbing
[03:46:44] <cradek> I guess it's news to me that it has arrays
[03:46:54] <petev> I need a book, but I'm not sure I want one
[03:47:22] <SWPadnos> I have one, but I maintaines what was left of my sanity by not finishing it
[03:47:22] <petev> they look more like hash tables or maps
[03:47:25] <cradek> petev: the man pages are actually pretty decent
[03:48:05] <petev> so why was that menu built if it was never displayed?
[03:48:06] <cradek> also the repl is a little useful
[03:48:11] <petev> is it left over cruft?
[03:48:36] <cradek> petev: surely there's no point to wondering stuff like that
[03:48:57] <petev> oh, looks like it's not finished
[03:49:13] <petev> I wanted the refresh functionality to re-read the auto-tune pid values
[03:49:20] <petev> but it's not implemented
[03:49:48] <SWPadnos> hmmm. didn't jeff add a "hal" command to emcsh?
[03:49:58] <SWPadnos> or something like that
[03:50:03] <cradek> I thought so...
[03:50:04] <petev> did he add the auto-tune stuff already?
[03:50:25] <petev> if he did, I will stop looking at this immediately ;-)
[03:50:29] <SWPadnos> no, but if you use emcsh, then you have a "hal" command, which I believe has the same commands as halcmd would
[03:50:42] <cradek> wow that's cool if so
[03:51:05] <SWPadnos> it may not be that complete
[03:51:24] <SWPadnos> but he did it so halshow wouldn't have to deal with pipes to halcmd or spawn/exec issues
[03:51:30] <SWPadnos> (among other things)
[03:51:31] <cradek> I don't see any sign of it in emcsh.cc
[03:51:43] <SWPadnos> I could be totally wrong - this may be a python thing
[03:51:58] <cradek> there is definitely a python hal module.
[03:52:46] <cradek> petev: you could use python, Tkinter, halmodule
[03:52:54] <cradek> you wouldn't have a starting point though
[03:52:55] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I guess I'm totally off base on this. I don't see anything in the commits (with minimal searching)
[03:53:05] <cradek> SWPadnos: I thought it was there too.
[03:53:20] <petev> cradek, I don't know python either
[03:53:33] <petev> but it would surely be more worth the effort than tcl
[03:54:08] <SWPadnos> and reading the params would be trivial, since there *is* HAL support for python
[03:54:12] <cradek> set thisret [hal show $searchbase $searchstring]
[03:54:16] <SWPadnos> (though you may need to add parameter reading to it :) )
[03:54:18] <cradek> it IS there, but I didn't spot the implementation
[03:54:26] <SWPadnos> hmm
[03:54:52] <petev> there must be some implementation as it does read hal params
[03:55:01] <Unit41> http://freshmeat.net/projects/dvorakng/
[03:55:02] <SWPadnos> + set ret [hal getp $varname]
[03:55:18] <SWPadnos> that looks like what you'd want, if the PID exports params for the autotune settings
[03:55:26] <cradek> Unit41: ?
[03:56:10] <petev> SWPadnos, the emccalib script already picks up all params that are set fom the INI file
[03:56:32] <petev> it's just the pins that I need to control from a button to run a tune cycle and get into tune mode
[03:58:40] <SWPadnos> it's probably possible to use something like [hal setp start_tuning 1]
[03:58:47] <SWPadnos> from a button press
[03:59:05] <cradek> I'm anxious to try the auto-tuning (the algorithm, not necessarily the gui)
[03:59:20] <cradek> maybe in a couple more days I'll have some movement here
[03:59:44] <petev> It's working very well now
[04:00:00] <cradek> slick
[04:00:06] <petev> The PID equation was not what I thought it was
[04:00:20] <petev> so I had to modify the calcs to match EMC pid equation
[04:00:30] <SWPadnos> how are they different?
[04:00:35] <ohiopctechDOTcom> mini
[04:00:37] <ohiopctechDOTcom> nova
[04:00:37] <cradek> I remember being baffled by which of the many Z-N formulae I should use
[04:00:38] <ohiopctechDOTcom> .org
[04:00:38] <SWPadnos> it seems such a simple equation ...
[04:00:39] <petev> now the values came out very close to the axis I painfully tuned by hand
[04:01:02] <petev> SWPadnos, there are many PID formulas
[04:01:08] <petev> they are not all the same
[04:02:12] <SWPadnos> it seems (seemed) that they would all fall into the general form K1*P + K2*I + K3*D ...
[04:02:50] <petev> Many of them pull the P outside and multiply all the sums by it
[04:03:23] <SWPadnos> odd
[04:03:59] <petev> look at the comment on top of the AutoTune procedure
[04:04:24] <petev> that is the PID formula the calcs were meant to be used with
[04:04:43] <petev> it was a trivial change, but a huge differece in values
[04:04:44] <SWPadnos> ok
[04:26:28] <CIA-8> 03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/components/at_pid.c:
[04:26:27] <CIA-8> -Added check at start of tuning cycle to make sure tune-effort param is
[04:26:27] <CIA-8> positive.
[04:27:05] <Unit41> hmmm
[05:10:16] <robin_sz> blimey .... autotune!
[05:14:29] <petev> robin_sz, you have a servo system to test it on?
[05:14:38] <petev> I would like to see how it does on other systems
[05:43:43] <toastydeath> beep beep
[05:59:27] <ds2> Meep Meep
[06:03:29] <CIA-8> 03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tcl/bin/emccalib.tcl:
[06:03:29] <CIA-8> -Added "Refresh" button to get values from HAL again in order to see
[06:03:29] <CIA-8> values set by auto-tune. Somebody who actually knows Tcl should review
[06:03:29] <CIA-8> these changes.
[06:03:44] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ... going to build emc on my faster box, it's regular ubuntu 6.06 LTS. will these instructions work ok for me? http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?RtaiSteps
[06:04:34] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i should get a way better response out of axis and the stepgen stuff on this box
[06:04:59] <ohiopctechDOTcom> anyways i started doing the rtai stuff.. can't hurt to try anyways
[06:05:26] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ... learning to compile as i go! woohoo
[06:06:27] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i do have the nvidia drivers installed... i read somewhere they bog down emc?
[06:07:53] <toastydeath> i THINK it screws with the real time stuff
[06:09:00] <ohiopctechDOTcom> sudo apt-get install cvs gcc-c++ gcc ncurses-devel pciutils-devel tk-devel tcl-devel gtk+-devel
[06:09:11] <ohiopctechDOTcom> that line from the wiki is not finding packages for me
[06:10:28] <ohiopctechDOTcom> .... i'll use synaptic
[06:10:49] <petev> I would start with build-essential
[06:11:02] <ohiopctechDOTcom> a package?
[06:11:16] <petev> yes
[06:11:24] <ohiopctechDOTcom> k
[06:12:34] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i compiled a few things i might already have all that i dunno
[06:13:44] <ohiopctechDOTcom> found a few of them
[06:20:17] <ohiopctechDOTcom> * ohiopctechDOTcom is getting a fresh mt. dew for this one
[06:25:14] <Unit41> mountain dew increases your risk of glucoma :)
[06:25:31] <ohiopctechDOTcom> oh
[06:25:31] <Unit41> mmmm sugary goodness
[06:25:43] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it goes good with cotton mouth so i heard
[06:25:44] <toastydeath> unsolicited medical advice increases your risk of getting shot in the parking lot
[06:26:23] <Unit41> yo i be ist be bustin aint no needin it so its coo
[06:26:39] <ohiopctechDOTcom> oh
[06:26:50] <Unit41> werd
[06:27:24] <ohiopctechDOTcom> what?
[06:27:27] <ohiopctechDOTcom> huh?
[06:27:49] <toastydeath> fo shizzle
[06:28:36] <ohiopctechDOTcom> why does the ubuntu garbage bin and the software updates icons look the same? huh? can anyone explain that?
[06:28:51] <ds2> it is a message
[06:28:58] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i think so...
[06:29:43] <toastydeath> FROM BEYOND
[06:29:50] <ohiopctechDOTcom> what's the url for the linuxcnc repositories?
[06:30:39] <ohiopctechDOTcom> mm.. nevermind that
[06:52:52] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i should be able to run "make install columbia.spachship.control.panel.software" after this apt-get is done.. :| with all the dev tools and source code i am downloading
[06:55:24] <ohiopctechDOTcom> W: GPG error: http://www.linuxcnc.org dapper Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 445B1785BC92B87F
[06:55:35] <ohiopctechDOTcom> is that ok?
[06:55:35] <alex_joni> ohiopctechDOTcom: you need to import the key first
[06:55:40] <ohiopctechDOTcom> oh!
[06:55:45] <alex_joni> the install script does that for you
[06:56:16] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i added the repositories to my sources.. and it hasn't been installed yet
[06:56:34] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i was doing reg ubuntu updates befoe i started and installing the dev tools
[07:03:04] <CIA-8> 03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/components/at_pid.c:
[07:03:04] <CIA-8> -Changed tune-mode to a u32.
[07:03:04] <CIA-8> -Added a mode for tuning PI and FF1 in addition to PID.
[07:03:52] <ohiopctechDOTcom> qconf popped up.. do i go through and pick options i want or just close it and save...
[07:04:27] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ...reads wiki page duh
[07:05:10] <Unit41> hehe
[07:13:30] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i can turn off stuff i don need like pcmcia n other junk right?
[07:13:39] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i will never put a pcmcia card in here
[07:13:56] <ohiopctechDOTcom> will that give it that much more of an edge?
[07:14:06] <ohiopctechDOTcom> if i turn things off
[07:14:12] <petev> if its a module, it shouldn't make a difference
[07:14:22] <petev> modules don't load unless needed
[07:14:41] <ohiopctechDOTcom> oh... that is the options i am looking at, is for modules?
[07:14:59] <ohiopctechDOTcom> * ohiopctechDOTcom never looked at a kernel config before, but knows what the things mean
[07:15:14] <petev> you should have a choice of not included at all, statically linked, and module
[07:15:35] <ohiopctechDOTcom> thta's checked.. a dot or nothing, in the box
[07:15:40] <ohiopctechDOTcom> taht's**
[07:15:44] <ohiopctechDOTcom> that geez
[07:15:49] <ohiopctechDOTcom> lol
[07:16:18] <petev> when you are done, you can look in the config file
[07:16:25] <petev> I think it show Y, N, or M
[07:16:32] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ok tahts it then
[07:17:47] <ohiopctechDOTcom> make includes them IF i have the hardware?
[07:18:00] <ohiopctechDOTcom> or boot includes them IF i have the hardware?
[07:18:05] <petev> no, not make
[07:18:17] <petev> make builds it according to the Y, N, M regardless of your HW
[07:18:21] <ohiopctechDOTcom> or the compiler...
[07:18:31] <petev> when the kernel boots it has everyting that is Y and not N
[07:18:46] <petev> the M stuff is built as separate modules that can be loaded
[07:18:51] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ok.. i was just wondering what decided the maybe
[07:19:03] <petev> the HW is probed on boot
[07:19:13] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ;)
[07:19:23] <petev> or you can manually force a probe with modprobe
[07:23:51] <ohiopctechDOTcom> seems to be an awful lot of errors flying by when i do make bzimage
[07:24:27] <ohiopctechDOTcom> [arch/i386/kernel] error 2
[07:24:36] <ohiopctechDOTcom> maybe i am better off withthe live cd
[07:24:52] <petev> if it's an option, the install takes about 10 min
[07:25:13] <anonimasu> ohiopctechDOTcom: building your own stuff works great but for getting a machine up and running it's hardly worth messing with :)
[07:25:29] <ohiopctechDOTcom> well i have a box already running
[07:25:41] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i wanted to build a super cnc box tho on this here
[07:25:42] <anonimasu> realtime and all emc deps is a real pain to install
[07:25:49] <petev> you know, I think cradek made a RT kernel package
[07:25:55] <petev> maybe you can just apt-get install it
[07:28:54] <ohiopctechDOTcom> found them
[07:29:07] <ohiopctechDOTcom> should install then i can reboot into the new kernel...
[07:29:18] <ohiopctechDOTcom> and swap the cable on the parport to this box
[07:29:22] <ohiopctechDOTcom> sweet!
[07:30:41] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i'll go for a lean RT kernel after that's working..
[07:30:52] <ohiopctechDOTcom> and do some studying
[07:37:42] <anonimasu> :)
[07:44:06] <Jymmm> http://search.ebay.com/300107642790
[08:23:24] <ohiopctechDOTcom> http://pastebin.ca/478578 <-- errors when tryin to start emc sim on new rt install
[08:23:52] <ohiopctechDOTcom> and i gotta recompilevmware..
[08:25:20] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i jsut did all the emc2 packages from the linux cnc repositories
[08:25:43] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i had to reconfig my xorg but that's cool cause now i got 1280x1024 res... :D
[08:25:52] <ohiopctechDOTcom> but emc2 won't start...
[08:26:22] <alex_joni> _tkinter.TclError: Togl: X server has no OpenGL GLX extension
[08:26:28] <alex_joni> try sim/tkemc
[08:26:30] <alex_joni> that will work
[08:26:35] <ohiopctechDOTcom> oh..
[08:26:41] <alex_joni> AXIS doesn't work.. because your X server doesn't have GLX
[08:26:42] <ohiopctechDOTcom> so i need to install openGL
[08:27:13] <ohiopctechDOTcom> or recompile the xserver with glx something or other
[08:27:57] <alex_joni> not recompile
[08:28:04] <alex_joni> you only need to enable it in the config file
[08:28:12] <alex_joni> but it depends on the driver for your graphics card
[08:28:24] <ohiopctechDOTcom> nv?
[08:28:39] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it's what it auto configed it
[08:28:42] <ohiopctechDOTcom> as*
[08:29:38] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ok... tkemc started
[08:30:18] <ohiopctechDOTcom> but, it sez: unexpected realtime delay check dmesg for details... so i gotta find dmesg.. is it in logs?
[08:30:29] <alex_joni> no it's a command
[08:30:36] <alex_joni> open a terminal and issue dmesg
[08:30:56] <alex_joni> if you have unexpected realtime delays that means your machine might not be suitable for RT :/
[08:31:19] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#Unexpected_realtime_delay_check_dmesg_for_details
[08:31:32] <alex_joni> nv is the proprietary driver from nvidia
[08:31:38] <alex_joni> I think
[08:31:50] <alex_joni> it's most likely to cause the problems with RT
[08:31:51] <ohiopctechDOTcom> mmhmm
[08:32:05] <alex_joni> I use the open source driver 'nvidia' I think it's called
[08:32:06] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i'll try another but this desktop sure looks sexy with it
[08:32:09] <alex_joni> and that one works..
[08:32:25] <alex_joni> but that means no hardware accell
[08:32:44] <ohiopctechDOTcom> this machine is running awesome on this kernel
[08:32:48] <ohiopctechDOTcom> the magma one
[08:32:53] <anonimasu> hehe
[08:33:06] <anonimasu> ohiopctechDOTcom: do you have a usb stick attached?
[08:33:13] <ohiopctechDOTcom> does it have some kinda black magic in it?
[08:33:20] <ohiopctechDOTcom> no usb stick
[08:33:25] <anonimasu> anything usb?
[08:33:40] <ohiopctechDOTcom> wireless mouse
[08:33:51] <ohiopctechDOTcom> but it's awesome!
[08:33:58] <anonimasu> eh didnt you get rt errors?
[08:34:00] <ohiopctechDOTcom> rechargable... laser thingy
[08:34:09] <ohiopctechDOTcom> yes
[08:34:20] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i'm gonna test it now
[08:34:24] <anonimasu> :/
[08:34:30] <anonimasu> that's not so great
[08:35:12] <ohiopctechDOTcom> well, i had this install of ubuntu tweaked to the top notch
[08:35:20] <ohiopctechDOTcom> then i did the emc2 install
[08:35:27] <ohiopctechDOTcom> so i may have botched a few things
[08:35:50] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it was tweaked for NON RT fastness
[08:36:01] <ohiopctechDOTcom> and general coolness
[08:36:53] <ohiopctechDOTcom> my p2-233MHZ is doing better so far than an amd athalon XP 2400
[08:37:04] <ohiopctechDOTcom> with 1.5 gb ram*
[08:37:26] <anonimasu> Well, I dont quite think they are the same thing
[08:37:29] <ohiopctechDOTcom> as far as running emc...
[08:37:42] <anonimasu> :)
[08:40:48] <ohiopctechDOTco1> big tip: DO NOT RUN EMC and the RT test at the same time
[08:42:15] <ohiopctechDOTcom> geez
[08:44:08] <anonimasu> lol
[08:44:17] <ohiopctechDOTcom> Error opening /dev/rtf3
[08:44:21] <ohiopctechDOTcom> did i break it?
[08:45:13] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ehh..ok
[08:45:48] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i need an app for gnome like the windows address bar that sits in the taskbar
[08:48:08] <ohiopctechDOTcom> found one!
[08:48:10] <ohiopctechDOTcom> awesome
[08:48:41] <alex_joni> ohiopctechDOTcom: please read the page I pasted carefully
[08:48:55] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#Unexpected_realtime_delay_check_dmesg_for_details
[08:48:56] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i am
[08:49:13] <alex_joni> did you do the sudo mkdir and mknod's ?
[08:49:18] <alex_joni> sudo mkdir /dev/rtf; sudo mknod /dev/rtf/3 c 150 3;
[08:49:18] <alex_joni> sudo mknod /dev/rtf3 c 150 3;
[08:49:19] <alex_joni> cd /usr/realtime*/testsuite/kern/latency; ./run
[08:49:21] <ohiopctechDOTcom> yes
[08:49:35] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i thought it would still be there but when i crashed it i guess they were gone
[08:49:49] <alex_joni> you need to do that every time you want to test RT
[08:49:51] <ohiopctechDOTcom> so i redid and they are fine and now i am pounding the system
[08:49:57] <ohiopctechDOTcom> oh!
[08:50:01] <alex_joni> it doesn't survive a reboot
[08:50:18] <alex_joni> anyways.. under no system load should you be getting overruns
[08:50:24] <alex_joni> (last column in that table)
[08:50:34] <ohiopctechDOTcom> 668976
[08:50:37] <alex_joni> if you do, then there is something wrong
[08:50:40] <ohiopctechDOTcom> good bad?
[08:50:43] <alex_joni> it _needs_ to be 0
[08:50:47] <ohiopctechDOTcom> 585
[08:50:49] <alex_joni> not even 1
[08:50:50] <ohiopctechDOTcom> 600
[08:50:52] <ohiopctechDOTcom> 605
[08:50:53] <ohiopctechDOTcom> 615
[08:51:01] <alex_joni> bummer, something is borked then
[08:51:09] <ohiopctechDOTcom> is that the nvidia drivers?
[08:51:21] <alex_joni> is that an onboard graphics?
[08:51:34] <ohiopctechDOTcom> 128mb agp
[08:51:42] <ohiopctechDOTcom> matrox g400 i think
[08:51:52] <alex_joni> and you're using nv as the driver??
[08:52:01] <alex_joni> * alex_joni faints
[08:52:18] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it was the nvidia binary drivers until i did the emc2 install
[08:52:30] <ohiopctechDOTcom> then it made me reconfig x to start gdm
[08:52:38] <alex_joni> then it's most likely not matrox g400
[08:52:43] <ohiopctechDOTcom> now i think it's NV
[08:52:54] <alex_joni> read 2.1.1 - 2.1.6 on that same page
[08:53:08] <ohiopctechDOTcom> matrox is that nvidia?
[08:53:20] <alex_joni> matrox != nvidia
[08:53:24] <ohiopctechDOTcom> geoforce 4
[08:53:31] <alex_joni> geforce 4 is nvidia
[08:53:35] <alex_joni> NOT matrox
[08:53:56] <ohiopctechDOTcom> goforce4 ti 4200
[08:54:38] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#NVidia_and_ATI_graphics_cards
[08:56:08] <ohiopctechDOTcom> fyi: i can use my usb key fine on my emc box to transfer g-code files back n forth
[08:57:17] <ohiopctechDOTcom> up to 1998 overruns
[08:58:01] <alex_joni> ohiopctechDOTcom: in order to reliably run an emc2 machine you need to have overruns no larger than 0
[08:58:04] <alex_joni> ZERO
[08:58:40] <ohiopctechDOTcom> mkay.. it was a fun idea.. at least i can test the g-code in the sim anyways without going around the corner
[08:58:46] <alex_joni> it will cause you lots of problems otherwise.. stalled steppers, missed steps
[08:58:46] <alex_joni> etc
[08:59:09] <alex_joni> if you don't plan to use this PC to drive your machine.. then it doesn't matter
[08:59:28] <ohiopctechDOTcom> well, it was going to be #2
[08:59:34] <ohiopctechDOTcom> for the new cnc router...
[08:59:40] <alex_joni> but on the PC you'll use to drive your machine you are not allowed to have overruns
[08:59:43] <ohiopctechDOTcom> and my genreal use machine still
[09:00:07] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i'll find another old freebie to run cnc #2 i guess
[09:00:18] <alex_joni> I bet this one can be fixed too
[09:00:25] <alex_joni> try vesa as the X driver
[09:00:41] <ohiopctechDOTcom> can i still get 1280x1024 with it?
[09:00:49] <alex_joni> sure.. why not?
[09:01:01] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i mean anything less on this 17" lacd isn't worth it
[09:01:04] <ohiopctechDOTcom> lcd*
[09:01:47] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i was doing 1024x768 and it looked like LARGE PRINT old peoples books... lol
[09:02:31] <ohiopctechDOTcom> * no disrespect to the elders in the room.. :(
[09:05:50] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i wasn't tryin to be fancy, my old monitor died and i decided to treat myself with a new lcd.. ;)
[09:08:17] <alex_joni> my laptop does 1680x1050 right now
[09:08:27] <alex_joni> and it's just fine :P (at 15")
[09:57:52] <anonimasu> lol
[09:57:58] <anonimasu> alex_joni: did it come with binoculars
[10:19:53] <alex_joni> anonimasu: nope
[10:21:27] <anonimasu> :)
[10:21:29] <anonimasu> good eyes ;)
[10:22:59] <alex_joni> I had to increase the DPI slightly in doze
[10:30:32] <anonimasu> :D
[10:32:22] <Martin_Lundstrom> Hello folks
[10:32:34] <Martin_Lundstrom> Dallur: Are you around?
[12:27:10] <skunkworks> hmmm. Am I thinking of this too easy. If I mount the switch and I know the distance between the switch and the top of my work piece.. Can't I just probe the switch and set the g54 offset for z so the tool tip would be at the surface of the - lets say copper clad - at Z0?
[12:27:57] <alex_joni> sure
[12:28:22] <skunkworks> for some reason I just am not getting what chris did.. it seems as if you still need to set the first tool.
[12:28:47] <skunkworks> physically set the first tool.
[12:29:47] <skunkworks> yes yes - I need a real browser.. :)
[12:30:03] <alex_joni> :-s
[12:48:51] <rayh> I think that what Chris was doing was setting the lengths of the other tools based on the difference between it and others.
[12:51:25] <skunkworks> I am thinking for loose tools - I want to stick the mill in - touch the switch and then set the end of the tool so it is zero at the work surface - by changing the z 54 offset.
[12:51:54] <skunkworks> knowing the distance between the switch and the work surface.
[12:52:14] <rayh> That is the way that I did it long ago.
[12:52:55] <rayh> That way you set part zero for that first tool.
[12:53:04] <jepler> with chris's scheme you do something like that, but using the new "G43H-1" to specify the tool length dynamically.
[12:53:29] <jepler> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/nc_files/tool-length-probe.ngc?rev=1.3
[12:53:34] <rayh> Only I used g55 so that g54 was still machine zero
[12:56:11] <rayh> I've not tried any of that yet.
[12:57:22] <jepler> just be aware that G43H-1 is only in TRUNK
[12:59:05] <rayh> ah. thanks
[13:08:26] <skunkworks> something like this? http://www.pastebin.ca/478902
[13:12:49] <jepler> one thing I'm unsure of: whether setting an offset-related variable actually changes the offset currently in effect
[13:13:43] <skunkworks> hmmm
[13:14:42] <jepler> in support of this claim, I offer that axis issues an mdi "G10L2" to Touch Off, rather than setting #xxxx
[13:14:42] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[13:15:24] <skunkworks> well - I could do that also - right?
[13:17:01] <skunkworks> instead of setting #5223 I could do at g10l2... [#5063+#5063+#100]
[13:18:01] <skunkworks> instead of setting #5223 I could do at g10l2... z[#5223+#5063+#100]
[13:18:04] <skunkworks> I mean
[13:25:22] <skunkworks> hmm in mdi #5223 = 10 doesn't take effect until a program reload.. But g10l2p1z10 is instant.
[13:25:31] <skunkworks> :)
[13:28:39] <skunkworks> g10l2p1z[#5223 + 10] works also (increases the offset by 10 inches)
[13:28:50] <skunkworks> I think it is doable.
[13:30:28] <skunkworks> Did I mention how cool emc2 is?
[13:33:13] <alex_joni> not lately
[13:33:18] <alex_joni> ;-)
[13:40:30] <skunkworks> raining there? ;)
[13:40:51] <jepler_> sksomething like that -- it took several iterations before "touch off" was right for all combinations of "machine is inch/mm" and "gcode is inch/mm"
[13:41:14] <jepler_> no actually it's dry today
[13:44:55] <skunkworks> http://www.pastebin.ca/478953
[13:45:02] <skunkworks> might acutally get to try this tonight.
[13:47:19] <cradek> skunkworks: be careful because the value probing gives you takes into account the currently active offsets
[13:47:20] <jepler_> issuing G54 (or whatever) after setting #5xxx is another thing to try
[13:47:41] <jepler_> hm, what does g53 g38.2 ... store in the variables?
[13:48:04] <cradek> jepler_: ^^
[13:48:10] <cradek> oh g53
[13:48:15] <cradek> g53 requires g0 or g1
[13:48:28] <cradek> so that'll produce an error
[13:48:44] <skunkworks> cradek: that is why I am adding it to the current offset.
[13:48:57] <cradek> skunkworks: ok I didn't look up all the numbers to check your work :-)
[13:49:11] <cradek> brb
[13:49:11] <skunkworks> I am sure I will crash something ;)
[13:49:22] <alex_joni> yay crash
[13:49:25] <alex_joni> make a vid..
[13:50:13] <skunkworks> ;)
[13:50:48] <jepler_> jepler_ is now known as jepler
[13:54:44] <renesis> G54 only touch-off in axis is kinda gimp
[13:57:55] <alex_joni> gotta run.. bbl
[13:58:28] <jepler> renesis: in emc2.2, axis will offer "touch off" in all g5x coordinate systems via the pull-down menu
[13:58:40] <renesis> sexy
[13:59:55] <renesis> i need to make toolshank rings or something so i can actually use tooling offset stuff
[14:00:27] <renesis> cuz spring colletes, i gotta re-reference all my tools after a change anyway
[14:08:50] <cradek> skunkworks: since the probe input is read on the servo cycle, you should find the probing speed that moves one step/count per servo cycle. for me that's 15 ipm, yours may be different
[14:25:46] <skunkworks> cradek: thanks
[14:32:55] <gringos> the local electronics guru's must have idea's on how to build an automatic torch arc voltage monitor ?
[14:33:26] <renesis> ?
[14:33:36] <renesis> i can do electronics but you totally confused me
[14:33:36] <gringos> fer plasma
[14:33:48] <renesis> okay i kinda thought that
[14:33:52] <gringos> they call them heart rate monitors
[14:33:55] <renesis> are you british?
[14:34:02] <gringos> kinda
[14:34:08] <gringos> but I think im turning japanese
[14:34:13] <renesis> no one here (calif) says torch =\
[14:34:17] <gringos> I really think so
[14:34:25] <renesis> are you in .jp?
[14:34:28] <gringos> canada
[14:34:46] <renesis> english .ca or quebecer .ca?
[14:34:57] <gringos> ca
[14:35:06] <gringos> first one
[14:35:25] <gringos> im in oil city
[14:35:39] <renesis> thats the name of the city?
[14:35:49] <gringos> edmonton
[14:36:07] <renesis> omg map says thats way cold =\
[14:36:12] <gringos> used to have the largest shopping mall in the world
[14:36:28] <gringos> pussy
[14:36:32] <Dallur> I highly recommend if you are going to get THC you buy one, it's a whole lot of work to make one and getting the isolation and everything right would take several months at least
[14:36:34] <renesis> kinda
[14:36:35] <gringos> its only cold in the winter
[14:36:45] <renesis> dude i went to .wa and in the morning the grass shattered under my feet
[14:36:57] <renesis> that was alot for me to deal with, emotionally
[14:36:58] <gringos> if I want THC I get thc
[14:37:19] <gringos> its called due frost
[14:37:30] <renesis> Dallur: what kind of voltage, power?
[14:38:15] <Dallur> renesis: for the high freq. start, usually 10.000v +
[14:38:56] <Dallur> renesis: that's arcing like crazy so you get a whole lot of EMI/RF with it
[14:39:29] <gringos> but wait there's more
[14:39:40] <gringos> I bought these plans off ebay that shows how to build your own
[14:39:55] <gringos> has 2 capacitors hooked together or something for arc start
[14:40:09] <gringos> and then I bought a patent plasma cd with 150 patents
[14:40:21] <gringos> maybe it allready shows how to make one
[14:45:17] <gringos> http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/5098/dcarcstartov2.png
[14:57:12] <Dallur> gringos: I don't really understand that diagram but for arc start you need a separate lead , a high frequency transformer, a logic circuit which stops the high freq. once arc is established and a spark gap of some sort
[14:58:42] <gringos> he's using a car coil to get 20k volts
[14:58:56] <gringos> and a capacitor
[15:00:02] <gringos> with a dimmer
[15:00:49] <Dallur> gringos: I see, well a car transformer (high voltage coil) would work assuming you want to use DC, but it's hardly HF, more like high voltage DC circuit
[15:01:06] <Dallur> gringos: should do the job though, not sure how it would work with electronics
[15:02:06] <gringos> ever herd of using low amp plasma for making traces on pcb's ?
[15:02:11] <Dallur> gringos: I bet there is someone with an electrical background that knows what kind of EMI/RF to expect, and ofcourse it limits your options when it comes to filtering since it's easy to filter AC from DC signals but harder to filter rogue DC from DC signals
[15:02:12] <gringos> that clad board
[15:02:46] <Dallur> gringos: nope
[15:02:55] <gringos> me neither but im curious to try it
[15:03:17] <Dallur> gringos: I would think the heat would cause problems with the board materials though
[15:03:34] <Dallur> gringos: and plasma consumable lifetime is very short when gauging
[15:04:12] <Dallur> gringos: milling might actually be a whole lot easier
[15:04:15] <gringos> also its good to dry the air
[15:04:38] <gringos> more ionization
[15:04:54] <renesis> more ozone?
[15:05:05] <gringos> only with alu
[15:05:08] <Dallur> gringos: you really need a dryer on your air compressor for good results, I ended up buying a $10.000 compressor to get decent air
[15:05:27] <renesis> dayum
[15:05:46] <Dallur> you always want the air as dry and as clean as possible btw, otherwise your consumable life is shortened considerably
[15:06:23] <gringos> 50 amp tips last forever
[15:07:07] <Dallur> gringos: how many hours is forever ?
[15:07:09] <gringos> I can swis up 2 4x8 sheets before tip even needs checking
[15:07:17] <anonimasu> eh..
[15:07:20] <anonimasu> that's not especially great
[15:07:32] <gringos> 3 -4 hours
[15:07:49] <gringos> 100 amps go quick
[15:08:06] <anonimasu> ah
[15:08:42] <gringos> if you let the arc hit the surface you get some funny cuts
[15:08:49] <gringos> I mean tip
[15:09:22] <gringos> they should actually make torch setups with specially designed tips for bevel cutting
[15:10:20] <gringos> have the head rotate as the 4th axis
[15:10:31] <Dallur> -gringos: consumables should last 8-10 hours under 80% duty cycle
[15:10:47] <Dallur> gringos: for a good system
[15:10:53] <gringos> cool
[15:11:35] <Dallur> but frequent starting can lower that quite a bit and so does gauging
[15:12:15] <gringos> gauging ?
[15:12:22] <gringos> is that cutting expanded steel ?
[15:12:46] <Dallur> gringos: that's cutting when you don't cut through the material
[15:12:54] <gringos> oh
[15:13:19] <gringos> if you go really fast I figure its possable to actually do 3d milling
[15:13:49] <gringos> make easy gasket slots and whatnot
[15:14:07] <Dallur> gringos: I would rather use a mill or edm for that kind of work, cheaper and way better results
[15:14:36] <gringos> what kind of motor do you need for steel chopping ?
[15:15:04] <Dallur> gringos: you mean spindle ?
[15:15:27] <gringos> well how many h/p would a person need to hook one directly to a bit
[15:16:30] <gringos> and then to get carbide bits
[15:16:54] <gringos> have you seen those machine laths that can cut a hexagon ?
[15:17:06] <gringos> live tooling
[15:17:36] <anonimasu> $$$
[15:17:48] <Dallur> gringos: you need a proper spindle, the motor bearings can't handle that kind of load
[15:18:39] <Dallur> gringos: and a gearbox, you need so slow down the output shaft a whole lot
[15:24:47] <gringos> this is terrible its so nice outside and im stuck inside white as a eskimo
[15:25:51] <gringos> time to cut a few more lawns
[15:26:10] <gringos> money or mind thats my motto
[15:28:12] <gringos> Dallur I have an idea you might want to try
[15:28:30] <gringos> its a can recycler for a plasmacutter
[15:28:54] <gringos> it just spins the can cuts off the top and bottom so you can slide them together for a solar collector
[15:30:01] <gringos> use dark blue or black cans for best results
[15:32:18] <Dallur> gringos: I live in Iceland, not a lot of can's or sun
[15:33:58] <gringos> * gringos chuckles
[15:34:04] <anonimasu> heh
[15:34:12] <anonimasu> i guess there are worse places to liev in
[15:34:14] <anonimasu> live in
[15:34:56] <Dallur> anonimasu: well during the summer you have perpetual daylight, can't complain about that, but not seeing the sun for months during the winter is a bit of a drag
[15:36:31] <gringos> what kind of sleep schedual do you like during the sumemr ?
[15:37:04] <Dallur> gringos: same as during winter, you get used to going to sleep even though it's still sunny outside
[15:37:24] <gringos> it can not be the same
[15:37:25] <Dallur> gringos: travelers find it a bit hard though
[15:37:51] <Dallur> gringos: I try to go to sleep before 12 and wake up at 6:30, and we don't have any daylight savings, what's the point
[15:37:55] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: Hello
[15:38:06] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: Any progress?
[15:38:12] <Dallur> martin_lundstrom: hi martin, no luck either last night
[15:38:24] <martin_lundstrom> ok
[15:38:27] <gringos> so your body needs 6 hours sleep like the rest of us :)
[15:38:32] <Dallur> martin_lundstrom: got tied up, but I'm aiming for tonight, :P
[15:38:45] <martin_lundstrom> cool
[15:39:23] <Dallur> gringos: :) unfortunately, I really need a couple more hours in the day
[15:42:01] <gringos> I can never remember the good dreams so I hardly see the point in giving myself the extra sleep time
[15:43:02] <gringos> weekends only other than that its 7 hour sleep
[15:43:48] <Dallur> gringos: sleep is a bit like defragmenting hard drives in windows, if you neglect it your computer slows down to a halt and eventually crashes, what we need is just a new filesystem/os :)
[15:44:32] <gringos> its all psycological
[15:44:42] <gringos> train de brain
[15:46:17] <gringos> sleep deprivation is a bitch though
[15:46:52] <renesis> continuous lack of sleep = psychosis
[15:47:09] <renesis> clike, you go 3 days without sleep youre pretty much clinically psychotic
[15:47:23] <gringos> lol
[15:47:40] <renesis> possibly permanent, cumulative
[15:48:11] <renesis> perfect example: tweakers
[15:49:32] <anonimasu> renesis: I'm soon ther..
[15:49:33] <anonimasu> e
[15:49:44] <renesis> go to sleep
[15:49:45] <anonimasu> :)
[15:49:53] <anonimasu> I have a deadline comming up
[15:50:41] <gringos> and I a date with the devil's mystress... bbiaw :P
[16:15:59] <anonimasu> :)
[17:06:22] <renesis> man
[17:06:37] <renesis> FUCK scientific notation
[17:06:42] <renesis> can i say that here?
[17:06:47] <renesis> cuz thats how i feel
[17:07:17] <renesis> engineering notation, 4ev0r.
[17:21:07] <skunkworks> .00000000000000000000000000000000023
[17:21:17] <skunkworks> the only way to go...
[17:28:41] <ds2> building things to high tolerances aren't we?
[17:32:03] <JymmmEMC> Oh, I thought that was his percentage of blood that does NOT have alcohol
[17:45:25] <JymmmEMC> Heh... I just remembered that the phone line is 48V.... Telco powered CNC??? So, does that mean when you call yourself that is ESTOP (100V) ???
[17:47:33] <Sapote> :D
[17:47:41] <Sapote> 48 V & 5mA
[17:53:16] <JymmmEMC> Ok, borrow the neighbor's lines for additional power
[18:02:56] <ds2> just get a T1
[18:03:03] <ds2> lot more power on there for the repeaters, etc
[18:10:17] <lerneaen_hydra> can someone test writing my name in a line? (lerneaen_hydra)
[18:10:51] <JymmmEMC> lerneaen_hydra
[18:11:46] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm bugger highlighting is dead
[18:18:29] <skunkworks> lerneaen_hydra:
[18:21:20] <jepler> what's bugger-highlighting?
[18:22:25] <JymmmEMC> highlights when he's found a bug
[18:57:58] <alex_joni> highlighting is dead, long live highlighting
[18:58:19] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler :p
[18:58:35] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, bugger. highlighting is dead
[18:58:49] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: what client?
[18:58:57] <lerneaen_hydra> xchat
[18:59:02] <alex_joni> hrmm
[18:59:07] <lerneaen_hydra> it worked before I upgraded to feisty
[18:59:43] <jepler> I hope that will teach you (not) to upgrade
[19:00:21] <alex_joni> * alex_joni lives by the IBM mantra
[19:00:22] <CIA-8> 03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/components/at_pid.c: -Changed tune-mode pin back to bit and added tune-type parameter.
[19:00:29] <alex_joni> "never touch a running system"
[19:00:35] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler: I had some stuff broken that was fixed in feisty
[19:00:46] <lerneaen_hydra> otherwise I wouldn't have touched it
[19:17:19] <gringos> there needs to be a module outline in each dir explaining the modules better
[19:17:50] <skunkworks> * skunkworks nominates gringos
[19:18:04] <alex_joni> * alex_joni seconds that
[19:18:19] <skunkworks> the motion carries.
[19:20:36] <gringos> might be able to do it roughly, but its going to be a while before you get progress out of me.
[19:20:47] <gringos> got 3 projects on the go atm
[19:22:27] <gringos> and i've never used cvs on a project before
[19:22:45] <gringos> only svn
[19:28:57] <gringos> can I mesure the ammount of volts flowing through a wire ?
[19:29:04] <gringos> without touching it
[19:33:30] <alex_joni> gringos: you men amps?
[19:33:35] <alex_joni> mean amps?
[19:34:25] <gringos> for a homemade plasma height controller
[19:34:45] <gringos> they mesure the volts for the arc
[19:34:49] <alex_joni> yes..
[19:35:01] <alex_joni> usually a voltmeter on the output
[19:43:44] <skunkworks> Hi Guest588
[20:04:42] <Sapote_reloaded> Sapote_reloaded is now known as Sapote
[21:37:42] <robin_sz> gringos, measuring arc voltage on plasma is not so hard
[21:38:02] <robin_sz> just need a 50:1 divider with good HF filtering
[21:38:14] <robin_sz> a two stage LC network will do
[21:39:01] <robin_sz> you can get 8 bit opto-isolated intrumentation amplifiers for $10 that will isolate the 0-5V signal for sending to your sensors
[21:46:01] <martin_lundstrom> gringos: Are you interested in a THC for plasma?
[21:48:57] <feoc2> i need a THC for a plasma
[21:50:52] <martin_lundstrom> have you tried campel?
[21:52:46] <martin_lundstrom> http://www.campbelldesigns.com/plasma-torch-height-control.php
[21:53:04] <martin_lundstrom> cheapest around, what i know
[22:00:29] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: Are you awake?
[22:40:56] <JymmmEMC> THC for plasma? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrocannabinol
[23:15:46] <jepler> someone must build one of these and bring it to fest: http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/candyfab
[23:23:25] <alex_joni> jepler: lol