hello, reading back, the graphite-carbon platen is not the edm material, it is the material used in fishing rods, a light hard slick reinforced 'plastic' ( sort of like frp )
and golf clubs handles... rifle stocks, stealth jets...
what about it
some one suggested it was the edm material 'graphite' , no no no
Anyone work with openoffice.org?
"work with" as in use, or "work with" as in develop?
RE: CALC, I want to deal with a column of data. If a cell has data, I want it to be valued at 15 minutes. So if there are 4 rows in a given column, it would be 60 minutes, or 1hr. How would I go about doing this?
03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/components/oneshot.comp: dallur needs this to be a pin, and it seems like a good idea
I'm making a time sheet essentially.
so, if a cell has data... it's worth 15 minutes of time.
if it has nothing, it's valued at 0.
do a database lookup (DCOUNT, I think), and multiply the result by 15
yuo'll need to look up exactly how to do the selection criteria block
sure. I hope that actually works ;)
SWPadnos, it does!
what is the command for open office draw from the command line?
we use pastebin for text, imagebin for pix, drawblog for sketches, whats good for binaries?
do I have to download a source package for emc?
doesn't come with the standard live cd?
if you download the EMC2 livecd from linuxcnc.org, then you don't have to install
the reason I wanted it was to take a figure from one of the manuals
if you downloaded a normal Ubuntu liveCD (and installed to HD), then you can install just by adding the emc2 repository to your repository list (still no compiling needed)
you may be able to get it from cvs.linuxcnc.org - maybe somewhere in the docs subdirectory under emc2, or in the documentation module
there is no source package then?
there is one
apt-get source emc2, I think
but you need to have the emc2 repository in your list
had to install dpkg-dev too, but I got it, thanks
tomp what's drawblog?
tomp, how big of a binary? there's those cheese download sites, where they make you wait 60 seconds before you get to download. HATE those.
but they are available.
a-l-p-h-a: i'm making a wiki page about the new hal circuit drawing with gEDA, and will post the tbz2 file there
a-l-p-h-a: drawblog is a place to sketch an idea for others to see
I see. :)
such a nice pic. <img src='http://www.drawblog.com/images/20070408101627187.jpg'
:) I'm uber at it.
[05:17:29] <tomp> http://www.drawblog.com/
yep that place
a new meaning of the word uber that i was previously unaware of :)
tomp check this out http://www.sharelor.com/
not an easy to use dump site, but is free.
200 megs to toss around.
I have strongspace... so I need not those types of things.
how can they offer that for free? anyway i'm almost set with the wiki page already, thanks
how do you make a large drawing in open office draw?
a LARGE drawing?
hal schematic with gEDA, new component library available ( very preliminary) http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?HalSchematicsUsingGschem
when I change the paper size of the printer, it doesn't stick
from within OO ?
that hal setup for plasma was drawn in OO-Draw iirc
did you do that tomp?
Rugludallur did it
I can't even get it to change to landscape
ok, so reading the help would have actually helped
the file Rugludallur created ( the .odg ) doesnt know about the printer, so you must look in the oodraw app for help, sorry :( i just loaded it.
sorry, I figured it out, format->page can change paper size
for the record, I'm not impressed with OO too much, can be a pita and buggy
***** Belt Sanders review http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/articles/showarticle.asp?articleID=1866&position=0&type=article
I guess you scared them off
Support the NRA with an American Cellars Wine Club Membership through The NRA Wine Club. ... Each is hand-selected exclusively for NRA Members. And each helps defend your basic freedoms including your Right to Keep and Bear Arms.
is that "Wines for target practice"? :)
(spam from nranews.org which does seem to be owned by the nra)
"this bottle shatters real good"
and this bottle defends my basic freedoms too
how's the weather over there?
cold but no snow yet here
it's warm & sunny here
think I'll hit the icecream stand
less than inch of accumulation here
18C and sun outside
1C and cloud outside
springtime, don'tcha know
chance of snow today and tomorrow, and again on Thursday and Friday
weell.. that sucks imo :P
bbl my bike wants a ride in the _SUN_
luckily, I'll be heading for Las Vegas on Monday, so it won't matter much ;)
-1C and cloud outside
that's probably what's coming here for Thur/Fri
[14:10:04] <cradek> http://www.newsnet5.com/news/11566204/detail.html
good morning, hal schematic with gEDA, new component library available ( very preliminary) http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?HalSchematicsUsingGschem
lerman_ is now known as lerman
I need more spindle speed.
* alex_joni passes anonimasu 2 more rpm's
I need 8krpm
alu is so slow :)
with that I'll be cutting at 429mm/min
2 flute cutter that is :)
so.. I have a board from a water heater.. got the partnumber on it (from honeywell) can't find sh*t on the web
stupid cam app.
hows it oing
been trying to read up on this PID stuff over the easter break
not getting my head around it too easy
gotta admit i dont really know where to start in regards to setting up my mill :(
feoc: I would start with X
keep messing with PID until the axis works ok
ferror should be fairly small
mess with it how ?
feoc: start with the method described in the docs
in the manual or on the wiki ?
[16:48:41] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/motion/pid_theory/index.htmlhttp://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/motion/pid_theory/index.html
or even the simple method
but no matter what you use.. always write down your observations and params
change only one at a time, and observe the outcome
otherwise you'll never make it work..
i can set it up from inside emc?
or do i have to use a hal util ?
you can probably start emc2
emc just comes up with a following error and not much info other than that
then use a terminal and halcmd setp pid.0.gain 100
whats the best way to test it ?
just jog in emc
feoc: no, the method in the docs assumes the axis stands stil..
at least what the command is concearned
i got my machine working! (almost)
how do i know if it setup or not ?
unless you move it
feoc: you start increasing the gain (P)
it's got like 3.5 or 4" by 12 of travel only :(
untill it starts to vibrate (oscilate)
then you set up I and D
at this point it should be moveble
what is it that causes the ferror to start with?
if the control has the encoder readings?
hey i gotta go back to work now... ill be back later. thanks for emc!
feoc: ferror means the distance between commanded and readback value is too big
e.g. motor lagging behind, moving too far away
but it can also mean you wired the encoder backwards
i dont think i did
i can move in small increments ok
its the larger ones that cause ferror
i tryed reversing it and got no movemet at all
right gotta dash
ill be back later/tommorow
got all week off to get this mill sorted :)
feoc: good, pid tuning can take a lot of patience!
I think it's fun...
i dont mind patience if i know im doing it right
i just feel a bit lost with it tbh
did you read about zeigler-nichols?
well theres only about a paragraph in the manual about it
with the table
ah, more is online probably
the basic idea is to find a P-only gain where you just get oscillation
then you time the oscillation
then you have some initial settings that work
SWPadnos__ is now known as SWPadnos
jackc is now known as crepincdotcom`
yo what's up?
anyone feel like helping a po' brotha out?
lol...i got my machine kinda-working
i need to tweak the ini and hal files i guess now?
kinda working is a good first step
what i am working with is a p2 333, ubuntu live installed to HD
cradek: something fun to see: http://steampunkworkshop.com/telegraph.shtml
what specifically do you need to do to get it fully working?
a SP3 controller xcard
i have it all wired and i can jog the motors with the keyboard
but when i turn the feedrate up p[ast 5 it won't move
it just shudders
is SP3 xcard some kind of step/direction driver?
i gotta look up who makes it
sounds like you have accel too high
what is it? stepper driver box?
i've had it for like 4 years i jsut now got around to using it
it is a 3 axis stepper drive
yeah you have to find the velocity and acceleration settings that work well for your setup
chron1c: start with low accel and low max speed
the gradually increase speed
steppers lose power as you try to turn them faster - you have to find the right settings by experimenting
but they don't sell this partcular model anymore
after you got a speed you're happy with increase accel
low accel would be in the ini files?
MAX_VELOCITY = 1.2
MAX_ACCELERATION = 20.0
i am using 5.1 volt 1.8 degree steppers
they are 1:1 on the ballscrew slides
that's in user units / second (and /second^2)
should i be using gears?
powered from what voltage?
5.1 volt atx power supply?
oh.. there's your problem :)
steppers usually need 10-20 times the rated power supply
I run mine at 40V or so
btu you need a stepper driver with current limiting
I suggest you read this paper: http://www.geckodrive.com/photos/Step_motor_basics.pdf
i will read it
running 5v steppers at 5v will work if you move very slowly :-)
so i shouldn't expect more than the 5 ipm?
with my setup?
hard to say, but maybe not
hmm.. i need a cnc guru close to dayton ohio...
if your scale is wrong, that 5ipm number will be wrong too
did you set the scale yet?
i haven't set anything really
i just got it all wired last night
and decided to see if the default stepper ini would do anything
ok for the scale you have to calculate how many steps it takes to go one inch (or mm)
so that's where i am at
so i should bring my indicator home from work?
only after you set the scale will the numbers be right
do you know the pitch of your leadscrews?
i need to figure out the ballscrew pitch.. then the step degrees... then do math
i hadn't got that far yet into the documentation
i am learning a lot as this project goes, it's a lot to take in at once
chron1c: please make notes where you find the documentation scarse
yes that would be nice
we could always use documentation help, especially docs for beginners
i am going to take pics and make a project page for my machine
it's always hard for people who already know this things to check what's missing
for some time we've talked about writing a "quickstart" guide
i wanted to at least know it was going to work before i did all that though
chron1c: I'm happy it's moving at all
i found the current documentation to be pretty adequate
cradek: seen that link?
but.. i am sort of a genius lol
alex_joni: yes, that's neat, he does nice things with very basic tools
chron1c: aren't we all
yes, the steampunk is some cool stuff
i found it on hackaday
he's an emc user
he does beatiful work
the brass one reminds me of homebrew '20s radios
i have ran prototrak's and milltronics controls...
i am anxious to make a part with emc
i ran a hurco control for a few minutes once
emc seem really intuitive compared to them
that's good to hear
easier to work with
especially the AXIS gui was intended to be familiar/easy for computer users
if i was to scrap my current stepper setup and go servo... what would be a cheap way to go for a mini mill?
some of the other guis are intended to be familiar/easy for users used to other controls
lots of options
chron1c: depends what you mean by cheap
the blue interface is what i was using last night... is that tkemc?
yes it's tkemc
i haven't got to try axis yet
for fun, also try AXIS
those are the two main ones
i am trying to talk my boss into letting me do a cnc conversion on one of our older manual mills
once i get my mini mill finished and tweaked i am sure they will give me money and tell me to go for it on the big mill
i just gotta prove it works
it works :-)
we've got nice flexible support for hardwired controls, jog wheels, etc etc
i know it does.. but not my 70 yr old ... super old school machinist boss doesn't
he still usues a 20 foot planer
i told him we could even turn it into cnc
i can't wait till i can dive into the hal programming and getting things like the jogwheels setup
in early june we're meeting at cnc workshop in IL - not too far from you
can emc/hal interface to the spc on calipers for a ghetto encoder?
[20:32:02] <alex_joni> http://steampunkworkshop.com/keyboard.shtml
i would love to come check the meeting out
lots of neat cnc stuff there
including a huge mazak with toolchanger the emc team has retrofitted
i have been drooling over all you guy's pics on the website
oh hey, that's a little personal
uhh you guy's MACHINE's pics
chron1c: you're into bearded guys?
bearded + balding
i'm into 18 yr old blondes with huge jugs
not bearded guys
well hey to each his own
more bearded guys for me
bearded guys seem to be smarter than the 18 yr old blondes but not as much fun in the sack
so you're a machinist for work and have a mini mill at home?
well, i am a machinist
i work for burton antique auto parts
and b&b reproductions
and i have three ballscrew precision slides i salvaged from a machine we built at another shop i used to work at
and i bolted two together
for an x/y
and i have the third that i need to mount on the mini drill press i gutted
which will be mmy m,ini mill when i get it together
cradek: haha, here's how you should make a watch http://steampunkworkshop.com/electro-mach.shtml
i still haven't attached the x/y or z to the mini drill press
but it's going to work nice for the head support
alex_joni: I don't understand that thing - too much art and not enough machining for me maybe
i used cat5 cable to wire the motors to the stepper driver... which is all laid out on my bench right now
i need to make a driver box and mount it on the machine
chron1c: do you guys make parts for these old cars in your shop?
it's a lot of fun
we have a few presses and a 1913 planer
and a huge stack of dies we can swap out to make whatever part
I've got a '52 chevy, no rust, pretty much original, runs nice and uses no oil yet
oh, a couple brake presses
oh body parts? wow
alex_joni: Wow! That's pretty cool, and the morse is pretty clean sounding and easy to read.
we don't do body parts
we could though
ah I see
but it's a lot of fancy stainless trim
rear finish trim for galaxies
we just finished a 59 rocker
might fit your 57 ;)
and better than the orig
I need my bumpers chromed...
actually I need to sell the car to someone who will fix it up - I've had it for 5 years and haven't done much
it was a daily driver for about a year
i got a grand in the bank?
wanna sell it for a $1,000
yes only a grand in the bank...
i buy too many toys
I might think about it if you said $2k
[20:43:29] <alex_joni> http://steampunkworkshop.com/cnc-ecm.shtml
it's a nice survivor - kept running but unmolested
I could drive it to IL in june - that'd be a blast
"I'll use LinuxCNC.org's EMC2 software to control the operation of the machine. EMC2 supports a variety of drivers, both stepper and servo, and appears to be the most popular of the OpenSource CNC projects."
what kind of machines do you guys have running emc?
I have a small mill and lathe
ahh the sherline kind of small?
or bridgeport small?
the mill is a little bigger than a sherline, the lathe is (was) a sherline
no, I have my eyes out for a "bridgeport small" machine though
i am really interested in building a smal lathe
i would like it to be manual/cnc
but i should finish this mil first
how small is small?
well the 7 x 10 cheap china lathes looks like a good starting point
a threadcutting lathe is complex if you want manual operation - with cnc you get threadcutting almost for free (no gearing)
I have a smaller than sherline mill
Well crap... Did a sign in 1" thick acrylic, and when I rad a seconds pass (to cleanup the swarf) the X axis jumped .015", so now there's a "ghost" image (so to speak) ARGH!!!!!!
chalk it off as art jymmm, lol
[20:49:16] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/emc/mycnc/10070328/PICT0003.JPG
yeah charge extra!
lerneaen_hydra: that small
chron1c: I wish I could, but all these snafu's are getting expensive (raw material wise).
looks nice alex
Jymmm: why did it jump ?
alex_joni: oh, tiny
anonimasu hell if I know, had the feed speed low too... 20 IPM
that's about the size of my machine
i will only have 2.5 - 3.5 inches of y travel though :(
looks like i will be doing a lot of rings :D
I think lots of folks make jewelry with machines that size
anyone ever used artcam?
I used it once..
this guy is really nuts: http://www.vonslatt.com/bus-main.shtml
lol that's crafty
hm, like the race-bus we had..
good night all
peace out yo
There are several methods for tuning a PID loop. The choice of method will depend largely on whether or not the loop can be taken "offline" for tuning
what does take offline mean ?
feoc: where did you read this?
ehh i'm going to the linux box downstairs to play with my machine... thanks for the tips folks!
[21:55:38] <feoc> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/motion/pid_theory/index.html
like the school bus that pulls a 1/4 mile wheelie at the track?
hehe, like living space..
[22:21:01] <mschuhmacher> http://www.learncontrol.com/tutorial/pid6.html
i''m on my machine box now
i was wondering if someone could point me to the formula for figuring out my input scale (9ballscrews/motor steps)
fyi it's a 5tpi ballscrew and a 1.8 degree/step motor ran 1:1 with aa shaft coupler
brb gonna change the keyboard repeat rate
so that's 200 steps per rotation, and a rotation is 1/5th inch
so 1000 steps/inch right?
hmm.. i'm not big on the math
if i ahve a formula i can figure it out?
would it be ini the emc docss?
I'm not sure how to write a formula that would make it easier
I just used 360degrees/1.8degrees = 200 steps per turn
a step would be a 1/5th inch?
and that goes 1/5th inch
aka 200 thousandths
no, a turn (200 steps) goes 1/5th inch
so 5 turns (an inch) is 1000 steps
so your scale is 1000
i think i'm catching on
now my y balscrew is different...
i need to measure it and count still
ok you do that one :-)
emc doesn't care whether they are the same
10 tpi.... 1.8 deg a step = 500?
trail and error is what i do best lol
yep I agree it's one or the other!
this one will require more or less turns to go an inch?
i was editing that one to try first
faster crashes are more fun anyways
so it''s working better
jogging with the kkeyboard is choppy bet runing the axis 2 demo code works very nice
i need to configure limit switches though :D
woohoo... fun fun
i wonder if a temporary motor coupler made out of this cracy clear plastic i have would work?
i could make it with my cordless drill
is Anders Wallin ever on here?
I'm staring at his schematic
the mesa m5i20 doesn't do step/dir yet, correct?
I like Anders Estop chain except his schematic needs help on the relay representation
eric_u: I haven't seen it,, but how so?
you have to figure out which is the coil and which is the contacts by reverse engineering
eric_u you cna use any DPDT relay
ok so i stuck an ink pen into my chuck and ran the axis demo g-code and my y axis is upside down? it wrote EWC instead of EMC
chr0n1c: you can reverse an axis by making the scale negative
no, I'm saying that you can't tell which side is the coil
I think Y acis in this case =)
I knew you were going to ask me that
the same scal as the one i changed for the ballscrew pitch?
eric_u The relay ciruit is no big deal,
he posted the url on the email list
I'm not on the mailing list.
i have an mdf table (flat) attached to my y slide with 1 screw and a washer. i salvaged the screw out of an old circular saw case.. then had to cut it to length with my dremel... geesh, kinda ghetto
wish i had a whole machine shop in my garage :(
I do to, but it's in my basement instead :)
i'm in my basement
only sunlight is what comes down the stairs (not much) and my driveway/front porch camera/monitor
is my machine shop down there with you, sometimes it goes on jaunts without my permission
it's a lab/dungeon
I work in two different basement labs
does it have a monster ?
just me and my dremel and a ghetto (slowly coming to life) mini cnc mill
someone once told me to call him up when I got an above-ground job
Every lab/dugeon should have a mascot monster
it has spiders... i am the monster i guess
actually it does have a mascot already
chr0n1c: Dr Jeckle I presume
chronic the hodog (aka: sonic_the_hedgehog)
my two alter egos?
sorry, that wasn't about emc...
can we strike it from the record?