#emc | Logs for 2007-02-16

[00:02:29] <fenn> hey why arent configs in /etc?
[00:03:05] <fenn> * fenn decides to shut up before he gets saddled with writing an xml preferences dialog
[00:03:53] <fenn> so does anyone have any input on how they would like python bindings for canonical commands to look?
[00:05:01] <fenn> or any other neat ideas along that path to keep in mind
[00:07:09] <Goslowjimbo> So, how do I upgrade?
[00:07:27] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.1
[00:08:03] <SWPadnos> you should be able to unmark all changes (in case you've marked anything), then click "mark all upgrades"
[00:30:07] <alex_joni> good night all
[00:35:32] <Twingy> new gcam is posted
[00:58:52] <a-l-p-h-a> hahahaha. http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/274495936.html
[00:58:55] <a-l-p-h-a> oh that is awesome.
[01:01:10] <cradek> crepincdotcom: no, that's way too deep
[01:02:03] <crepincdotcom> cradek: i just pulled the board off the mill... yes, i concur that that is way too deep
[01:02:14] <crepincdotcom> * crepincdotcom throws away another pcb
[01:02:28] <crepincdotcom> so i have a 1mm endmill and a 60 degree V
[01:02:37] <crepincdotcom> what do you suggest.
[01:03:45] <Twingy> connical is fine for cutting MCB's
[01:04:15] <crepincdotcom> thats what i hear
[01:05:11] <Twingy> what software are you using to generate toolpaths?
[01:05:30] <cradek> crepincdotcom: cut as shallow as you can reliably cut. looks like I cut .0045 deep: http://unpy.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/eagle/ulp/singlesided.gpar?rev=1.3
[01:05:32] <crepincdotcom> cradek and jepler's script for eagle
[01:06:10] <Twingy> I've been looking at kicad
[01:06:30] <crepincdotcom> cradek: then just tell the scripts that my width is whatever i calculate for that depth?
[01:06:46] <crepincdotcom> my main issue is that i cannot reliably zero my z axis
[01:06:59] <Twingy> crepincdotcom, why not?
[01:07:19] <Twingy> got a multimeter?
[01:07:24] <cradek> crepincdotcom: feeler gauge?
[01:07:44] <Twingy> if you have a multimeter you have a reliable zero
[01:08:35] <crepincdotcom> i have a multimeter, but no feeler gauge. iv been using a peice of paper that is 0.003" thick
[01:08:38] <cradek> any dial caliper?
[01:08:44] <crepincdotcom> Twingy: what praytell do i do with the multimeter?
[01:08:46] <crepincdotcom> cradek: yes
[01:08:53] <Twingy> crepincdotcom, set it to continuity, tada
[01:09:04] <Twingy> one lead on copper clad, other on endmill
[01:09:08] <Twingy> beep!
[01:09:23] <crepincdotcom> hahahahahahaha
[01:09:23] <crepincdotcom> wow
[01:09:24] <cradek> that's a good idea for PCBs
[01:09:28] <crepincdotcom> i cant beleive i didnt think of that
[01:09:31] <Twingy> heh
[01:09:33] <crepincdotcom> thats awsome
[01:09:39] <Twingy> silly kids :)
[01:09:44] <crepincdotcom> ^^ i admit
[01:09:52] <crepincdotcom> i am a complete milling noob
[01:10:14] <a-l-p-h-a> I'm confused.
[01:10:14] <cradek> in the more general case, tinfoil works better than paper, and you can measure it with the calipers and get a pretty constant thickness
[01:10:20] <Twingy> I was talking to some one about that a few months ago and the idea just popped into my head
[01:10:39] <crepincdotcom> cradek: ah ok
[01:10:47] <a-l-p-h-a> how's this paper or tinfoil used??
[01:10:57] <Twingy> a-l-p-h-a, tear test
[01:11:02] <crepincdotcom> a-l-p-h-a: move it around until its stuck under the spindle
[01:11:02] <Twingy> you lower until it bites
[01:11:12] <jmkasunich_> I wonder.... could you connect one wire to the endmill, another to the copper, and wire them up as a home switch?
[01:11:21] <jmkasunich_> then hit homeZ and stand back
[01:11:22] <Twingy> if you are dealing with metals then continuity meter is much better
[01:12:00] <a-l-p-h-a> ooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... so you don't mill too much fibreglass??
[01:12:01] <cradek> jmkasunich_: only if you have plenty of extra cutters and PCBs
[01:12:02] <crepincdotcom> jmkasunich_: i havent read through the docs to figure out how to read in home switches yet
[01:12:40] <jmkasunich_> cradek: why you say that? if the homing velocity is very slow its no worse than any other touch off method
[01:12:57] <crepincdotcom> * crepincdotcom goes to try
[01:13:02] <rayh> anyone know of a reason that the *.cmp files would not work with emc2?
[01:13:17] <jmkasunich_> whatsa .cmp?
[01:14:25] <rayh> It is a leadscrew compensation file. X.cmp for that axis ...
[01:14:31] <jmkasunich_> oh
[01:14:35] <jmkasunich_> I think alex got that working
[01:14:57] <rayh> ah okay.
[01:15:52] <rayh> There was also a temperature compensation file way back in the old days. I don't even remember it's name.
[01:16:48] <jmkasunich_> rayh: page 33 of the users manual talks about compensation
[01:17:24] <jmkasunich_> there is no requirement that the file end in .cmp, that must have just been a convention that was used
[01:17:37] <rayh> thanks
[01:17:45] <cradek> rayh: what does "gang lathe" mean?
[01:18:06] <jmkasunich_> multiple spindles all making the same part at the same time?
[01:18:12] <ejholmgren_> you don't want to know
[01:18:18] <jmkasunich_> well, copies of the same part
[01:18:30] <cradek> seemed like it was something about tool changing?
[01:19:06] <rayh> a set of tools along the x axis slideway.
[01:19:45] <rayh> Each tool gets set to a different zero for rotation and length.
[01:20:14] <rayh> rather than an indexer that puts different tools into the same cutting position.
[01:20:57] <cradek> ah ok
[01:21:25] <cradek> that really doesn't sound any different from using a QCTP like I have
[01:22:30] <ejholmgren_> cradek: are you the one that has the emco?
[01:22:32] <crepincdotcom> cradek: when Axis is in Pause mode after a tool change, it doesnt let me jog to reset the z home
[01:22:34] <crepincdotcom> is there a way around that?
[01:23:00] <cradek> crepincdotcom: either stop and use "run from line" to restart, or more foolproof is to put each tool's part of the program in a separate gcode file
[01:23:21] <cradek> ejholmgren_: no
[01:23:32] <crepincdotcom> ok
[01:24:03] <crepincdotcom> also, is a 1mm endmill ok for the roughing? is still seems to be making traces uber small as it goes by on both sides
[01:24:55] <cradek> I'd try it without roughing until you get the separations part right
[01:25:08] <crepincdotcom> how can i tell it no roughing?
[01:25:15] <cradek> 0 rouging passes
[01:25:17] <cradek> h
[01:25:26] <crepincdotcom> ahh.
[01:25:54] <crepincdotcom> 3 outline passes still sounds ok?
[01:27:22] <crepincdotcom> 0.0045"*tan(60)=0.007794" depth.
[01:27:28] <crepincdotcom> here goes nothing....
[01:28:06] <cradek> sure 3 is fine
[01:28:08] <jepler> .0045 is the depth not the width
[01:28:16] <crepincdotcom> oh
[01:28:19] <crepincdotcom> good point
[01:28:20] <jepler> but I thought depth and width were the same for V
[01:28:21] <crepincdotcom> * crepincdotcom solves the other direction
[01:28:32] <crepincdotcom> if the V is 45 degrees then yes
[01:28:35] <crepincdotcom> mine is 60
[01:28:41] <crepincdotcom> so the slope is tan(60)
[01:28:46] <ejholmgren_> zomg
[01:30:07] <crepincdotcom> unless im wrong, in which case im screwed
[01:34:05] <owhite> hello good people.
[01:34:34] <a-l-p-h-a> yo
[01:34:35] <owhite> does anyone know about being able to put images into pyvcp.xml files?
[01:34:47] <a-l-p-h-a> no
[01:35:09] <CIA-19> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/rules.in: pluto_servo was no longer getting copied to docs/html/ after other changes
[01:35:14] <owhite> I know I heard someone mention but I forgot who it was.
[01:35:27] <cradek> probably tomp
[01:36:29] <jepler> he has several changes to pyvcp that someone should evaluate and maybe put in CVS -- he's asked me but I haven't gotten around to it
[01:36:32] <jepler> they're in pastebin somewhere I Think
[01:37:00] <owhite> I can hang around and see if he shows up.
[01:38:31] <owhite> jepler: I got oneshot working, the change you suggested for width as a pin is working with pyvcp sliders.
[01:38:39] <owhite> gracias.
[01:42:43] <crepincdotcom> cutting in progress
[01:43:03] <cradek> look better this time?
[01:43:25] <crepincdotcom> yes, much
[01:43:35] <crepincdotcom> the multimeter touch off is awsome :-)
[01:43:51] <owhite> what's that?
[01:44:15] <crepincdotcom> owhite: if youre milling a PCB, put your multimeter on continuity
[01:44:24] <crepincdotcom> then put one wire to the top of the board, and one to the mill
[01:44:33] <crepincdotcom> you know you are z=0 right when it beeps :-)
[01:44:46] <owhite> nice trick.
[01:45:23] <crepincdotcom> yah
[01:45:52] <owhite> have you heard of anyone succeeding in making PCBs with a laser?
[01:46:13] <crepincdotcom> i havent personally, but im not really in the PCB making scene
[01:46:19] <jmkasunich_> seems tough
[01:46:28] <jmkasunich_> PCB stock burns at a lower temp than copper melts
[01:47:07] <owhite> yeah I dont think you could cut it directly. I'm wondering if I could maybe cut an overlay serving as a mask. CO2 lasers dont do well with copper.
[01:47:27] <owhite> probably be much better off resurecting my 3-axis router.
[01:50:20] <crepincdotcom> cradek: it still seems to be cutting too close on both sides, there are a couple traces that are Vs pointing up but i dont think theres copper left on them
[01:50:45] <jmkasunich_> is it consistent all over the board?
[01:50:54] <crepincdotcom> yes
[01:51:01] <jmkasunich_> maybe the board is bulging up in places
[01:51:04] <jmkasunich_> guess not
[01:51:18] <crepincdotcom> even if there are traces there, theyre definatly not 50-mil like Eagle had them
[01:51:22] <jmkasunich_> hmm
[01:51:42] <jmkasunich_> could it be a tool diameter vs tool radius thing?
[01:51:54] <crepincdotcom> meaning....
[01:52:13] <jmkasunich_> you need to tell either eagle or emc what size tool you are using, right?
[01:52:30] <jmkasunich_> if they as for dia and you give radius, or vice versa, it would cut wrong
[01:52:39] <crepincdotcom> well, the scripts jepler and cradek wrote, yes
[01:52:40] <jmkasunich_> if they ask
[01:52:49] <cradek> ok here's what you do
[01:53:03] <cradek> cut one pass in a new board at whatever minimal depth you can reliably use
[01:53:08] <crepincdotcom> ok
[01:53:10] <cradek> measure the width
[01:53:17] <crepincdotcom> thats damn tiny to measure
[01:53:21] <jmkasunich_> width of trace, or width of cut?
[01:53:21] <crepincdotcom> but ill try
[01:53:28] <cradek> width of cut
[01:53:39] <crepincdotcom> ok
[01:53:41] <cradek> yeah it is a pain to measure, I use a microscope
[01:53:56] <crepincdotcom> lol
[01:53:59] <crepincdotcom> that i lack
[01:54:35] <cradek> that number goes in that screen when you generate the gcode
[01:54:40] <jmkasunich_> write a test program (plain g-code), two cuts 0.050 apart, then 0.040, 0.030, etc
[01:54:46] <jmkasunich_> and see when the copper in between disappears
[01:54:53] <cradek> good idea
[01:55:22] <crepincdotcom> ahh
[01:55:47] <owhite> I can point you to a very cheap microscope (<$100) with optical marks to measure in the microns, if you need it.
[01:55:59] <crepincdotcom> ill check it out, sure
[01:56:00] <crepincdotcom> thanks
[01:56:05] <owhite> I use it to measure kerf cuts of laser beams.
[01:56:13] <owhite> let me look around.
[01:56:35] <cradek> "Outline Width (mm)" is the number you want to set with this width
[01:56:52] <crepincdotcom> right
[01:56:55] <ejholmgren_> owhite: point away
[01:57:13] <CIA-19> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/control.in: emc2-dev is useless without the main package, so make it a dependency
[01:58:35] <CIA-19> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/debian/control.in: merge rev make -dev depend on the main package
[01:58:39] <cradek> I bet you could also cut a long narrow "V" shape and measure where along it the middle point disappears
[01:59:09] <cradek> heck you could do that on every board after it's mounted, and generate the gcode to perfectly match your depth settings for that board
[01:59:18] <owhite> ejholmegren_ and crep, I'm looking. I checked package and its unmarked.
[02:04:13] <owhite> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170081900177
[02:05:48] <owhite> cheap, I know. but I've even used it to take pictures. http://www.nilno.com/laser_dir/alignment/650_hole2.jpg that's done by just holding a camera over the thing.
[02:06:53] <crepincdotcom> cradek: i thought of a potential issue
[02:07:27] <crepincdotcom> does the script take care of offsetting for the tool, or does it look it up in the tool table for axis? i havent put any of my tools in the axis table
[02:08:02] <cradek> it does not use emc's tool table or compensation
[02:08:08] <crepincdotcom> ah ok.
[02:09:11] <owhite> how big is your router bit?
[02:10:33] <crepincdotcom> 60 degree V
[02:12:19] <crepincdotcom> :-( well thats an issue
[02:12:26] <jmkasunich_> ?
[02:12:32] <crepincdotcom> it was hitting the end of the y axis
[02:12:35] <crepincdotcom> but not knowing
[02:12:44] <crepincdotcom> so everything was offset like 0.2"
[02:12:46] <crepincdotcom> ==bad.
[02:14:13] <crepincdotcom> sigh.... why did i use such a tiny mill
[02:15:12] <jmkasunich_> cuz a big one won't fit on your bed?
[02:15:23] <crepincdotcom> you have a point there
[02:15:27] <crepincdotcom> i have my own lab space now
[02:15:31] <crepincdotcom> thats where i am at the moment
[02:15:36] <crepincdotcom> they gave me a whole section of the cnc lab
[02:15:49] <crepincdotcom> so i retrospect i could have gone bigger.... but i didnt know i'd get this
[02:15:54] <crepincdotcom> well, perhaps this summer.
[02:19:02] <crepincdotcom> oh thats helpful
[02:19:06] <Goslowjimbo> jmkasunich_: on the 14th, you had a conversation with tomp which ended with ..."GoSloJymbo can pick it up and take it home" . What can I pick up and where do I get it?
[02:19:10] <crepincdotcom> seems to have broken the motor as well
[02:19:14] <jmkasunich_> ?
[02:19:29] <jmkasunich_> I don't recall that conversation
[02:20:21] <jmkasunich_> logger_emc: bookmark
[02:20:21] <jmkasunich_> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-02-16.txt
[02:20:43] <Goslowjimbo> I have a hard time following it. It's about the DRO display and waitusr.
[02:21:20] <jmkasunich_> tomp said that, not me
[02:21:44] <jmkasunich_> what he meant was we got the bugs out, now you should be able to use it
[02:21:53] <owhite> are all emc irc sessions logged?
[02:22:01] <jmkasunich_> yes
[02:23:11] <Goslowjimbo> I understand tomp said it. I just thought this meant I could find a listing somewhere which would spell the solution out.
[02:24:27] <jmkasunich_> maybe, but I dunno where
[02:24:38] <jmkasunich_> tomp had the code, I was just helping him debug it
[02:25:23] <crepincdotcom> http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-02-16.txt
[02:25:39] <crepincdotcom> oops
[02:25:39] <crepincdotcom> sorry
[02:29:29] <owhite> Dont know if you guys watch american chopper, they're using a 5 axis water jet on the show.
[02:33:18] <fenn> crepincdotcom: you can measure things pretty easily with a flatbed scanner and a ruler
[02:33:37] <fenn> or even a digital camera
[02:33:55] <fenn> i'm cheap tho and never had one that can focus for shit
[02:35:23] <Jymmmm> ok, who actually has a machine running steppers?
[02:36:30] <Jymmmm> my steppers have 12" pigtails, and I'm trying to come up with ideas for connectors. any suggestions? I need to feed the long cable thru energychain
[02:36:42] <fenn> how many amps
[02:36:49] <Jymmmm> 3
[02:37:19] <fenn> card edge connectors?
[02:37:45] <jmkasunich_> fenn: I think he wants wire to wire
[02:37:51] <fenn> i know db9 is common
[02:37:53] <Jymmmm> I've been using crimp on .25" vlades, but they're a bit bulky.
[02:37:55] <fenn> but that's probably too bulky
[02:38:07] <jmkasunich_> Jymmmm: I found 16AWG x 4 conductor speaker wire at home depot
[02:38:20] <jmkasunich_> 4 conductors in a jacket
[02:38:20] <fenn> jymmm mini din-9 like old keyboards
[02:38:22] <cradek> sherline uses midi/din connectors
[02:38:26] <jmkasunich_> dunno how flexible
[02:38:47] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich_ they have shielded too, which is what I'm using, but I think it's 18ga
[02:38:48] <fenn> i just had to rummage around in cradek's brain for a sec to find the answer :)
[02:39:15] <jmkasunich_> I need 6.1A, so I was looking for the bigger stuff - they had 18 (and maybe 20) too
[02:39:16] <Jymmmm> fenn mini din doens't have any locks though.
[02:39:44] <Jymmmm> I just like the ability to swap motors around w/o havign to re-run the cabling.
[02:40:14] <Jymmmm> anyone use the barrel crimp connectors?
[02:40:22] <fenn> the "quick disconnects"?
[02:40:30] <Jymmmm> yeah
[02:40:59] <jmkasunich_> http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Switchcraft/Web%20Photos/EN3C4M.jpg
[02:41:15] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich_ OD ?
[02:41:35] <jmkasunich_> I got those - waterproof (dunno if oil proof), rated 7A or so, about 1/2" OD
[02:41:49] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich_ cost per pair?
[02:42:16] <jmkasunich_> I got chassis mount receptacles and cord mount plugs, about $12 for a set
[02:42:26] <Jymmmm> ah, not too bad
[02:42:32] <jmkasunich_> not cheap, unless you compare it to MS style connectors
[02:43:09] <jmkasunich_> they have cord mount receptacles too, so you can do a middle-of-the-cable connection if you want
[02:43:31] <jmkasunich_> for 3A, you probably have a lot more choices though
[02:43:38] <Jymmmm> I've been using these: http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/300/42728i0.jpg
[02:43:56] <jmkasunich_> ah - fastons
[02:44:16] <jmkasunich_> never been fond of those except for maybe inside a cabined
[02:44:18] <jmkasunich_> cabinet
[02:44:18] <Jymmmm> but the kind that is insulated on both sides
[02:44:28] <jmkasunich_> not fond at all when polarity matters
[02:44:36] <jmkasunich_> much rather have a 4 pin connector
[02:44:52] <Jymmmm> 4 wires all colored coded. you really cant screw it up =)
[02:45:00] <jmkasunich_> ah
[02:45:01] <Goslowjimbo> crepincdotcom: yeah, I tried that wiki, and 1) it didn't update, or 2) waitusr as I applied it is not valid. I am trying to find out which one. I am still getting error 15:command not found.
[02:46:07] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich_ yeah, but this is to connect to the 12" pigtail leads from the steppers. The other end of the cable I'm using a 4c locking connector... sec I'll get a pic.
[02:47:12] <jmkasunich_> what about mate-n-lock?
[02:47:17] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich_: cable end http://www.bills2way.com/equip/images/4pin.jpg and the associated bulkhead mount
[02:47:24] <jmkasunich_> housings are under a buck, pins are $0.35 each
[02:47:40] <jmkasunich_> ah, nice
[02:47:57] <jmkasunich_> do you know current rating?
[02:48:03] <Jymmmm> those are cb mic connectors
[02:48:17] <owhite> aint 3amp.
[02:48:39] <jmkasunich_> sure ain't 6 ;-)
[02:51:49] <owhite> check out the white plastic connectors on this: http://nilno.com/laser_dir/laser_controller/108_0830lg.JPG
[02:52:12] <jmkasunich_> those are mate-n-lock
[02:52:13] <owhite> that's what I went with. came from digikey, I could dig up a part number.
[02:52:28] <Jymmmm> those are molex connectors
[02:52:38] <owhite> yes. molex.
[02:52:38] <jmkasunich_> hey, if you don't need environmental resistance, you can use hard disk power connectors
[02:53:13] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich_ most dont' have locks on them though
[02:53:14] <owhite> I like them for panel mount, but I dont think they are that great in-line on cables.
[02:54:09] <Jymmmm> they would fit through the eChain though
[02:56:14] <Jymmmm> 250V@8A http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?parentPage=search&summary=summary&cp=&productId=2103293&accessories=accessories&kw=connector&techSpecs=techSpecs&currentTab=techSpecs&custRatings=custRatings&sr=1&features=features&origkw=connector&support=support&tab=features
[02:57:03] <Jymmmm> oh hell.... no female
[02:57:07] <owhite> those are molex too, in my opinion. I
[02:57:29] <Jymmmm> yep
[02:58:55] <Jymmmm> great.... they have 2 6 9 and 12 female, but not 4
[02:59:25] <owhite> check digikey.
[02:59:43] <jmkasunich_> if you go to digikey and put "mate-n-lock" in their search box you'll find them
[03:03:36] <Jymmmm> I have the housings, just really need the pins, and I guess I could buy the cheap crimper too (the one I have is for REALLY small connectors)
[03:04:33] <Jymmmm> I just need to find my extrator tools.... haven't seen them in a while =)
[03:05:13] <owhite> what I do is solder the wire _and_ crimp to those pins, by the way.
[03:05:24] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich_ nice idea on the molex connextors, will work on locking them together "somehow"
[03:05:52] <jmkasunich_> if you won't be unmating them often, a small tie wrap would do the trick
[03:06:01] <owhite> jymmm: they have in - line versions for cable, and also panel mount.
[03:06:14] <Jymmmm> owhite I want the crimper so it'll strain relief the insulated part as well
[03:06:43] <owhite> oh yeah crimping is essential
[03:07:08] <Jymmmm> iirc the cheap crimper is $40
[03:07:57] <jmkasunich_> how many connectors do you need?
[03:08:03] <Jymmmm> 4 per
[03:08:07] <jmkasunich_> ok
[03:08:29] <Jymmmm> tie wrap or shrink wrap might do it
[03:08:37] <jmkasunich_> if it was only a couple, those waterproof circular ones are nicer, and at $12 bucks per mated pair would be cheaper than the crimp tool
[03:08:59] <jmkasunich_> but for 4, might as well buy the tool and have it for the future
[03:09:36] <Jymmmm> That's what I was thinking as I've always used molex connectors in one fashion or another.
[03:10:16] <owhite> another trick (okay this is really minor) is to tin the wire with solder, crimp it, keep it in the crimper, and heat with a solder to join to the pin. keeping the crimper in place is helpful because it sinks the heat away and you dont melt the wire insulation.
[03:10:17] <Jymmmm> and the pwr connector will fit in/out the echain w/o cutting it off too
[03:10:37] <owhite> er, heat with a solder _iron_...
[03:10:44] <Jymmmm> heh
[03:12:06] <owhite> what is echain?
[03:14:28] <fenn> waste of money
[03:15:02] <fenn> its a conduit that only flexes in one direction
[03:15:18] <fenn> like a tank tread sorta
[03:15:24] <owhite> oh got it.
[03:17:00] <owhite> later folks.
[03:19:32] <jmkasunich_> drat: Note that even though the 5I20s FPGA can tolerate 5V signal inputs, its outputs will not swing to 5V. The outputs are push pull CMOS outputs that will drive to the output supply rail of 3.3V."
[04:15:00] <jmkasunich_> any gecko users around?
[04:46:56] <SWPadnos> jmkasunich_, sort of, but not stepper drives
[04:47:11] <jmkasunich_> these are steppers
[04:47:17] <SWPadnos> G202, IIRC
[04:47:22] <jmkasunich_> I'm seeing flickering of the power LED under load
[04:47:42] <jmkasunich_> when the stepper is energized but not moving (or moving slowly) the light is bright, and the supply is 55.25V
[04:47:48] <SWPadnos> hmmm. do you have a charge pump or other monitor connected to the disable input?
[04:48:06] <jmkasunich_> when I run it as 12 revs/sec, the light gets dimmer, even tho the supply only drops by 0.5V
[04:48:13] <jmkasunich_> these drives don't have a disable input
[04:48:20] <SWPadnos> I thought they did
[04:48:29] <SWPadnos> that must be the 212
[04:48:34] <jmkasunich_> which is strange, since on 2/12 Mariss said on the geckodrive channel that they can be disabled
[04:48:46] <jmkasunich_> I'm writing a post to ask him
[04:48:54] <jmkasunich_> channel = the yahoo group
[04:49:18] <SWPadnos> yeah - there was a nearly identical question inthe last few days - a guy with a PMDX-<something> with "noise problems"
[04:49:20] <jmkasunich_> pin 7 is labeled NC on these drives, and the manual doesn't mention a disable
[04:49:24] <SWPadnos> though I could be confusing two recent issues
[04:49:42] <jmkasunich_> there was a thread about disableing drives for manual cranking
[04:50:06] <SWPadnos> I remember that one also
[04:53:01] <jmkasunich_> the motor is a nice handwarmer
[04:53:25] <SWPadnos> heh
[05:12:43] <jmkasunich_> dang - I'm losing some steps too
[05:15:59] <jmkasunich_> about 3 microsteps per rev it seems
[05:41:09] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich_ mechanical or electrical?
[05:41:37] <Jymmmm> s/al/ally/
[07:32:01] <ds3> is there something other then keystick that will work on a 320x200 screen?
[08:12:08] <fenn> you could hack tkemc
[08:12:33] <fenn> 320x200 is damn small
[08:12:54] <fenn> or pyvcp maybe
[08:13:04] <fenn> might be a bit lacking
[08:22:48] <tomp> could Ubuntu 6.06 be installed from the iso image residing on a hard drive in say a redhat machine? (old laptop w/o floppy, and cant boot from cd)
[08:25:31] <ds3> 320x200 fits on a cheap LCD
[08:27:32] <fenn> tomp: mount the iso with -o loop
[08:28:27] <fenn> actually the best way would be to use pxe
[08:29:44] <fenn> http://myy.helia.fi/~karte/ubuntu_pxe.html
[08:32:59] <tomp> fenn: thanks, ah, the laptop is brain dead right now, no network... before i asked this Q i pulled the hd out and put it into a system that could boot cd. but soon (too late) realized it was probing all the wrong hdwr :(
[08:36:45] <tomp> fenn: nice trick tho, i read it
[08:40:45] <alex_joni> morning all
[08:43:50] <tomp> good morning
[09:48:49] <Goslowjimbo> Does EMC2.1.0 have pyvcp installed in it? I have had to use head to run pyvcp and hal.
[09:49:51] <alex_joni> Goslowjimbo: pyvcp should be available in 2.1
[09:50:04] <alex_joni> it might not be 100% complete as in HEAD, but it should work
[09:51:23] <Goslowjimbo> Well, I have tried to update head according to the wiki, and I still couldn't run "waitusr". It gave me a command not foud, error 15
[09:51:44] <Goslowjimbo> command not found sorry
[09:54:15] <Goslowjimbo> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.1
[12:30:15] <rayh> Hi guys
[12:30:26] <anonimasu> 4hey rayh
[12:33:32] <rayh> You doing any good today?
[12:37:33] <anonimasu> not much
[12:37:42] <anonimasu> im making a nametag holder for the frontdoor at work..
[12:37:50] <anonimasu> to try out the dnc function of the big mill..
[12:40:21] <rayh> Neat.
[12:50:24] <alex_joni> hi ray
[12:53:48] <rayh> Hi Alex
[12:54:03] <rayh> Did some testing of backlash comp yesterday.
[12:54:17] <rayh> Looks like it would work well enough for a machine I'm working on.
[12:55:40] <alex_joni> cool.. that's always good news :)
[12:56:17] <alex_joni> as usual we implement these things without big iron to test on ..
[12:56:37] <rayh> I asked about the leadscrew comp stuff and someone said you had it working?
[13:01:09] <alex_joni> well.. theoretically working
[13:01:22] <alex_joni> I worked on the userlevel part, and getting the stuff down to motion controller
[13:05:46] <rayh> Okay. I don't have any scales fine enough to set one up but someone asked.
[13:11:04] <anonimasu> rayh: potentiometer?
[13:11:09] <anonimasu> and map each centimeter :)
[13:14:02] <rayh> How accurate do you figure we could get with a pot.
[13:17:21] <alex_joni> I'd say something around .1 ohm :P
[13:18:48] <anonimasu> well, pretty damn accurate :9
[13:18:49] <anonimasu> :)
[13:20:23] <skunkworks> Hey alex!
[13:27:03] <alex_joni> hey samco
[13:34:12] <rayh> Got a question about a file from long ago.
[13:35:02] <rayh> But can't seem to find the cvs stuff at sourceforge.
[13:38:23] <jepler> all the CVS history, including from before the move to our own server, should be at http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/
[13:39:14] <jepler> (you can also check it out from that server, of course)
[13:39:15] <rayh> I thought so but I seem to remember a temperature compensation file.
[13:39:29] <alex_joni> rayh: it wasn't a file afaik
[13:39:44] <alex_joni> there was some stuff inside the motion controller called emcmotalter
[13:39:48] <alex_joni> or something like that
[13:39:58] <jepler> emc/src/emctask/alter.c
[13:39:58] <alex_joni> and that alter has been used for temp. compensation
[13:40:02] <jepler> " The alter interface is intended to support dynamic compensations of small
[13:40:02] <jepler> amounts based on a sensor-based machine model, for example from temperature.
[13:40:03] <jepler> "
[13:40:07] <alex_joni> that one
[13:40:07] <rayh> alter does ring a bell
[13:40:20] <alex_joni> but you need an outside process to send the changes
[13:40:25] <rayh> thanks guys.
[13:40:35] <alex_joni> alter by itself doesn't really do anything, except applying the offset
[13:41:10] <alex_joni> so you probably want a simulated model of the axis, and send the changes to the motion controller, once every few msec/secs
[13:41:23] <rayh> This stuff was way back when the repository was on WillS's sun workstation.
[13:41:28] <alex_joni> we don't have alter in emc2, but there is a different motor offset which can do just the same thing
[13:42:01] <rayh> What would that look like.
[13:42:46] <alex_joni> jepler: do you remember without looking? I think you used that for the stored position (from POSITION_FILE)
[13:42:54] <jepler> alex_joni: no, I don't remember.
[13:42:59] <alex_joni> * alex_joni looks
[13:43:14] <rayh> Back then we burried a thermocouple in the machine base, read it with some sort of process controller that sent a equal interval variable to alter.
[13:43:27] <alex_joni> right.. we probably want the same thing for emc2
[13:43:38] <alex_joni> only the NML call will be a different one
[13:44:03] <alex_joni> EMCMOT_SET_MOTOR_OFFSET <- that one goes to the motion controller
[13:44:07] <alex_joni> looking for a userlevel interface
[13:44:12] <rayh> You mean the temp was passed using NML???
[13:44:20] <alex_joni> I suspect so
[13:44:49] <alex_joni> this was during the run (if I understand it correctly)
[13:45:23] <alex_joni> ok, I just checked .. there is a function called emcAxisSetMotorOffset()
[13:45:52] <alex_joni> that one gets the data down to the motion controller, right now there is no NML hooks to do that from a GUI or another process, but I could add that easily
[13:46:27] <jepler> right now it can only load the compensation table a single time, there's no provision on the realtime side to do anything but append a new entry to the (fixed-size, ascending-order-only) compensation table
[13:46:48] <rayh> The use we made of it back then was to compensate for temperature stretch of leadscrews.
[13:47:51] <alex_joni> jepler: right, but if there's a process running every few seconds that affects the motor offset, then I think you have the same behaviour one had with alter
[13:48:32] <xemet> hello
[13:48:35] <skunkworks> we got the K&T to set the pallet off onto the changer. Now we can start digging into it.
[13:49:12] <rayh> That's great skunkworks. Someday I've got to drive down there and see it.
[13:49:40] <xemet> I've a question
[13:49:46] <skunkworks> :) I should be interesting - it spins the z axis nut instead of the lead screw. Kinkda makes it a bit harder.
[13:50:01] <xemet> anyone knows what is an "XclientMessage"?
[13:51:24] <alex_joni> Function XClientMessage sends a message to a window with XSendEvent. The message is initialized with a particular protocol type and atom.
[13:51:28] <alex_joni> The format of the XClientMessage function is:
[13:51:31] <alex_joni> XClientMessage(display,window,protocol,message,timestamp)
[13:51:53] <jepler> alex_joni: yes if you need single-entry compensation you can probably use EMCMOT_SET_BACKLASH without modifying the realtime code
[13:52:35] <jepler> but I can't imagine that thermal expansion is corrected well with a single backlash-like value
[13:53:36] <xemet> alex, can I ask a question? I would like to know if it is possible to do a thing
[13:53:48] <jepler> xemet: don't ask whether you may ask a question. just ask the question.
[13:54:02] <xemet> thanks :)
[13:54:10] <xemet> I've got this at university:
[13:54:12] <xemet> http://www.mindflux.com.au/products/spacetec/4000flx.html
[13:54:30] <xemet> it is an old spaceball, serial, not USB
[13:54:40] <xemet> I would like to use it to move the CNC
[13:55:05] <xemet> there is a driver for linux,, 3dxware
[13:55:14] <xemet> I've installed it and it works
[13:55:42] <xemet> there is a demoprogram that opens a little window and shows the axes coords
[13:56:21] <jepler> there seems to be a linux joystick driver for "spaceball" in the kernel, and the comments indicate it includes 4000flx.
[13:56:32] <jepler> if that is true, then configure the spaceball to work with the linux joystick driver, then use hal_joystick
[13:56:40] <xemet> I've contacted 3dconnexion asking how this program work
[13:56:46] <xemet> AH!
[13:57:13] <xemet> How can I configure the spaceball in order to use the linux joystick driver?
[13:57:17] <jepler> I don't know
[13:57:23] <xemet> ah...
[13:57:29] <jepler> I bet the Internet knows
[13:57:37] <jepler> http://www.gelato.unsw.edu.au/lxr/source/drivers/input/joystick/spaceball.c
[13:58:11] <xemet> incredible
[13:58:33] <xemet> how to use it?
[13:58:36] <jepler> I don't know
[13:58:39] <jepler> I bet the Internet nkows
[13:59:28] <xemet> understand
[14:01:01] <jepler> http://www.charmed.com/txt/joystick.txt scroll down to "inputattach"
[14:01:35] <xemet> so...If I succeed in configuring the spaceball in order to work with this driver...it will be seen as a joystick?
[14:01:53] <jepler> that's my impression from what I've just learned by searching the internet
[14:02:44] <xemet> I will search a lot!
[14:05:26] <rayh> It seems to me that temperature compensation should in effect change the INPUT_SCALE.
[14:07:26] <jepler> you can easily change the HAL parameters stepgen.X.position-scale or encoder.X.position-scale while emc is running but I don't know how the machine will behave if you actually do this
[14:08:40] <jepler> 'inputattach' seems to come from the 'joystick' package on ubuntu
[14:08:58] <rayh> I've done it and it causes an instant following error.
[14:09:11] <rayh> Unless that number happens to be zero.
[14:09:46] <cradek> I think the only safe time to change that would be while sitting at joint=0
[14:09:55] <xemet> jepler: I've not understood a thing...I've to download and install this driver or it is already available in ubuntu?
[14:10:02] <jepler> yeah -- say you were at 1000 counts and you change position-scale from 1000 to 1001. Your position should change from 1000/1000 = 1.00 to 1000/1001 = 0.999
[14:10:10] <cradek> (if you're homed, I think that's at the home position)
[14:10:42] <jepler> xemet: the kernel driver (spaceball.ko) seems to be in the standard ubuntu kernel package and in our realtime kernel package
[14:10:56] <jepler> xemet: the "inputattach" program is in the "joystick" package which does not seem to be installed by default on ubuntu.
[14:11:26] <xemet> I will see if it is in the synaptick packages list
[14:11:40] <jepler> bbl
[14:20:14] <xemet> ...ok, I've installed the joystick package...but If I type inputattach it says No such file or directory
[14:21:10] <xemet> ah, and there is a package named inputattach, already installed...
[14:22:23] <xemet> well...just realized, inputattach is present and works
[14:22:48] <xemet> the problem is the path of the serial port...
[14:24:21] <xemet> ok, found. /dev/ttyS0
[14:33:26] <xemet> uhm...well, if I run input attach, the spaceball make two bips.
[14:33:28] <xemet> but...if I use hal_joystick /dev/ttyS0 it says, device is not a joystick
[14:33:28] <xemet> and, if I try to calibrate it, it is not shown...
[14:33:28] <xemet> boh
[14:35:56] <cradek> joysticks don't plug into serial ports
[14:36:03] <jepler> cradek: this device does
[14:36:13] <cradek> oh?
[14:36:21] <cradek> ok ignore me then
[14:36:22] <jepler> cradek: the docs I read lead me to believe inputattach hooks the serial port to the joystick driver inside the kernel
[14:36:22] <xemet> it is an old spaceball
[14:36:39] <jepler> after that /dev/input/<mumble> is supposed to work
[14:37:45] <jepler> look in dmesg after running inputattach in the background
[14:38:24] <jepler> + r = c->args_func(get_cldat(interp), interp, argc, argv);
[14:38:39] <jepler> oops
[14:39:20] <xemet> what is dmesg?
[14:39:56] <jepler> dmesg is a command that shows the kernel log
[14:40:51] <xemet> ok
[14:47:33] <xemet> what have I to look for?
[14:47:47] <xemet> running dmesg before and after the inputattach
[14:47:57] <jepler> I don't know exactly, I hoped the last few lines would say whether the joystick was attached or not
[14:48:02] <jepler> but if it beeps, cleraly linux is communicating with it
[14:48:22] <xemet> the only thing that seems changed is at the ende serio: Serial Port ttyS0
[14:51:56] <jepler> the documentation seems to indicate you should be able to 'jstest /dev/input/js0' after doing the 'inputattach ... &'
[14:52:22] <jepler> if that does *not* work then your problem is still with the driver itself, not with emc's hal_joystick
[14:57:10] <xemet> no...js0 is not present
[14:57:38] <jepler> is "spaceball" in the list of modules shown by the "lsmod" command?
[14:58:37] <xemet> yes
[14:58:46] <jepler> is "joydev"?
[14:58:51] <xemet> and it says Used by 0
[14:59:30] <jepler> are you running inputattach in the background (with a & at the end)?
[15:00:03] <xemet> no joydev is not present
[15:00:17] <jepler> try "sudo modprobe joydev"
[15:00:37] <xemet> ah...wait, I've typed inputattach --spaceball /dev/ttyS0
[15:00:50] <xemet> after that, tha spaceball beeps
[15:01:00] <xemet> but in the terminal
[15:01:08] <xemet> there is no prompt anymore
[15:01:33] <jepler> in unix, putting "&" at the end of a shell command runs it 'in the background', returning you to the shell prompt while the program is still running
[15:02:09] <xemet> ah ok
[15:02:16] <xemet> I opened another terminal windows...
[15:02:27] <xemet> but I think the program is still running...
[15:02:37] <jepler> It is probably important that 'inputattach' keeps running during the whole time you want to use the spaceball
[15:02:42] <jepler> did you try the 'modprobe joydev' yet?
[15:02:50] <xemet> no
[15:03:19] <xemet> I've done it now
[15:03:36] <jepler> did that make /dev/input/js0 exist?
[15:04:08] <xemet> no...
[15:05:09] <jepler> try restarting inputattach now that you've loaded joydev
[15:05:29] <xemet> I've to stop the one started before...
[15:05:33] <xemet> how to do that?
[15:05:38] <jepler> pressing ctrl-c will probably stop it
[15:06:34] <xemet> done...
[15:06:38] <xemet> restarted but no js0
[15:07:38] <jepler> look at the files listed in /dev/input before and after you run 'inputattach'. see if anything is being created.
[15:08:08] <xemet> nothing...
[15:08:24] <jepler> inputattach *is* communicating with your spaceball -- on my system without one, it prints after a few seconds: inputattach: device initialization failed
[15:08:26] <jepler> and exits
[15:08:56] <xemet> yes...I know...
[15:09:02] <xemet> he is communicating...
[15:09:27] <xemet> but I don't know where is the device...I should be able to calibrate it for example using jscal
[15:09:39] <xemet> http://www.gelato.unsw.edu.au/lxr/source/Documentation/input/joystick.txt
[15:09:43] <xemet> read the point 2.2
[15:09:57] <xemet> do you think I have to do something like that?
[15:10:12] <jepler> you can try that, but ubuntu uses udev which is like devfs, and usually makes that unnecessary
[15:13:39] <jepler> did it make any difference?
[15:13:58] <xemet> I'm trying
[15:14:19] <xemet> but...I've to create nodes 0 1 2 3 or just 0?
[15:14:51] <jepler> probably only 0 until you have more than one joystick device you want to use
[15:17:37] <xemet> nothing...
[15:17:59] <xemet> js0 is present now, but if I run input attach, and after jstest
[15:18:18] <xemet> it says No such device
[15:20:04] <jepler> while inputattach is running, does this command show any entries for your device? grep "N:" /proc/bus/input/devices
[15:21:16] <xemet> only three
[15:21:24] <xemet> keyboard mouse and speaker
[15:23:37] <jepler> I'm out of guesses on this one
[15:26:00] <xemet> ok...I think it doesn't work...
[15:26:16] <xemet> maybe I will study it better later...
[15:27:30] <xemet> thank you very much for you supprt
[15:27:50] <xemet> I've to learn a lot
[17:49:20] <a-l-p-h-a> awallin, are you getting alot of spam lately on WP?
[17:49:36] <a-l-p-h-a> I've got akismet, and Spam Karma 2 running.
[17:49:58] <awallin> hi a-l-p-h-a, yes, two spam komments got through today. normally I don't get anything. something wrong with akismet lately?
[17:50:25] <a-l-p-h-a> dunno what... but yeah. something's wonky... I put spam karma 2 running now again.
[17:50:34] <a-l-p-h-a> I couldn't DELETE the damn spam either... something was buggy
[17:50:53] <a-l-p-h-a> http://unknowngenius.com/blog/wordpress/spam-karma/
[18:31:20] <Jymmmm> FYI.... Molex 4pin (hdd power connector) ratings: 250V 22ga=6a, 18ga=8a, 16ga=10a, 14ga=10a
[18:43:23] <tomp> there's a way to switch root devices, and there's a way to mount iso images ( i have scripts for this ). is there a way to mount a 'live-cd' and install from it?
[18:43:55] <tomp> i have a laptop that cant boot cd and has no floppy
[18:44:29] <Jymmmm> what os is currently on it?
[18:44:33] <tomp> but i can pull the hd out and load an iso image as a file, or as a partition
[18:44:54] <tomp> right now , nada, had damnsmalllinux last nite
[18:45:57] <tomp> Jymmmm: i can put damnsmalllinux on it, or dos... what might you suggest?
[18:46:16] <Jymmmm> not sure, sounds reasonable, but if it's mounted, not sure how it can install
[18:46:45] <eholmgren> is there a way to issue g code to emc from the command line?
[18:46:47] <Jymmmm> can you boot from usb?
[18:47:26] <tomp> Jymmmm: no usb, but might be able to put image on a cf in pcmcia slot when using damnsmalllinux
[18:47:40] <Jymmmm> how big is hdd?
[18:47:54] <tomp> 2.1 g :(
[18:48:00] <Jymmmm> ew
[18:48:14] <Jymmmm> what I had in mind will take almost a gig
[18:48:21] <tomp> got 1g cf
[18:48:33] <Jymmmm> hang on
[18:49:15] <tomp> eholmgren: dont know from cmd line. will mdi help?
[18:49:17] <alex_joni> eholmgren: yes, using mdi (a python script)
[18:49:31] <alex_joni> mdi -ini /path/to/ini 'command'
[18:51:34] <Jymmmm> tomp: Just a thought (it worked really nice for me on a usb stick) http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Bootable_USB_Key
[18:51:45] <Jymmmm> tomp maybe alex_joni has an idea
[18:52:14] <Jymmmm> though, I'm no longer allowed to root boxes at work with it now =)
[18:53:02] <tomp> Jymmmm: thanks!
[18:53:11] <Jymmmm> wait, maybe that's not the one I used, hold on
[18:54:22] <eholmgren> alex_joni: is mdi in the wiki?
[18:54:35] <alex_joni> not sure, but there should be a manpage
[18:56:07] <Jymmmm> tomp Ah, here ya go.... you can't get easier than this.... http://pendrivelinux.com/2007/01/01/usb-knoppix-510/
[18:56:29] <Jymmmm> tomp THAT's the one I used.... large DL, but straight forward setup
[18:57:23] <Jymmmm> tomp I did that from XP - works great
[18:59:19] <tomp> Jymmm: and i thought the 1st info was great ;)
[18:59:23] <SWPadnos> didn't tomp say that he has no USB?
[18:59:55] <SWPadnos> or is that "no USB stick", not "no USB ports" ?
[19:00:13] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: one can work around both )
[19:00:33] <SWPadnos> harder to work around the "no USB port" thing for OS installation :)
[19:00:52] <alex_joni> well.. there are PCI ones
[19:01:01] <alex_joni> although I suspect the BIOS can't boot from those
[19:01:14] <SWPadnos> PCI doesn't work so well on a laptop
[19:01:26] <alex_joni> PCMCIA ?
[19:01:29] <tomp> SWPadnos: right, no usb, thinking maybe i can use pcmcia cf chip... the trick seems to be... i cant boot to the image, how to chgroot or something, to use it after booted on sacrificial system
[19:01:30] <alex_joni> Cardbus?
[19:01:31] <SWPadnos> ding! :)
[19:01:50] <SWPadnos> tomp, can you boot from CF at all?
[19:02:13] <tomp> no, only from hd, no net not cd , not cf
[19:02:26] <SWPadnos> then you have a problem.
[19:02:53] <SWPadnos> you can get a 2.5" to 3.5" HD adapter, and stick a bootable image on the HD in a desktop machine
[19:03:02] <tomp> oh, i can move hd to another system to install stuff ( how i did dsl damnsmalllinux )
[19:03:09] <tomp> yes using that adapter
[19:03:10] <SWPadnos> right
[19:03:26] <alex_joni> how did you install something on that laptop?
[19:03:58] <tomp> moved hd to another box, removed all other hd, booted cd on that box, into the laptop hd
[19:04:14] <tomp> moved hd back to laptop
[19:04:30] <SWPadnos> does the laptop have a CD-ROM that it can't boot from?
[19:04:32] <tomp> btw: thanks guys
[19:05:13] <tomp> SWPadnos, right, laptop toshiba 730cdt, cannot boot from cd, cannot boot from floppy ( no got hdwr)
[19:05:37] <SWPadnos> ok, but it has a CD-ROM - it just won't boot from it???
[19:05:42] <tomp> right
[19:05:51] <tomp> 4x :(
[19:06:18] <Jymmmm> tomp does it have a PCMCIA slot?
[19:06:20] <SWPadnos> ah. then stick the HD in another machine, install grub to it, and manually edit the boot line to read from HDD (or whatever the CD-ROM comes up as)
[19:06:37] <SWPadnos> it'll boot grub from the HD, but you can tell GRUB to boot the OS on the CD
[19:06:52] <tomp> Jymmm: yes and i hacve 1g cf chip w adapter
[19:07:02] <SWPadnos> if you want a somewhat easier (at boot time) way, then you can use syslinux instead
[19:07:10] <SWPadnos> I think
[19:07:14] <tomp> SWPadnos: that sounds great!.... lemme think
[19:07:18] <Jymmmm> tomp it SHOULD be able to boot from the PCMCIA slot.... format the CF card with DOS as a test
[19:08:08] <tomp> Jymmmm: it doesnt know cf exists w/o loading a driver ( i think ) but thats an easy test
[19:08:11] <Jymmmm> CF is the same electrically as IDE
[19:08:19] <Jymmmm> CF is the same electrically as IDE HDD
[19:08:57] <SWPadnos> CF has all of IDE built in, but the interface bus is often not the same (PCMCIA vs. PCI), so the machine may not boot from a PCMCIA HD (or CF)
[19:09:18] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos If it's old, it might need card and socket driver
[19:09:28] <SWPadnos> there are no drivers at boot time ...
[19:09:51] <Jymmmm> but I do know that some pcmcia hdd's would boot up on the older stuff.
[19:09:57] <tomp> SWPadnos: so i just edit menu.lst, adding a paragraph/stanza for the cd ?
[19:10:12] <tomp> Jymmmm: I can try
[19:10:38] <SWPadnos> tomp, I'm not sure what to add, but grub also provides a "command line" at boot time - you can get device lists, etc (it even has tab completion and some help)
[19:10:53] <SWPadnos> so you can just get into grub, then poke around until it works :)
[19:11:00] <tomp> Jymmm: the bios screen is the ancient box text type, not the type where 2 colums of choices
[19:11:01] <Jymmmm> tomp: format z /u/s/v:CFCARD
[19:11:43] <Jymmmm> tomp: format z: /u/s/v:CFCARD replacing Z with the real drive letter =)
[19:12:19] <tomp> SWPadnos: will try something b4 I pester again: thanks all ! ( i have used the grub cmd line to fix stuff )
[19:12:52] <SWPadnos> have fun :)
[19:12:58] <tomp> Jymmm: what format should the cf be? ext2/3 fat/fat32 ?
[19:12:59] <Jymmmm> tomp you might buy an ide2cf adapter, then you can just buy a 4gb cf card =)
[19:13:08] <Jymmmm> fat32
[19:13:41] <tomp> thanks
[19:13:57] <SWPadnos> tomp, you'll probably have some issues with such a small HD. I think 4G (or more, waaaaaay more :) ) is highly recommended
[19:14:22] <fenn> swpadnos also thinks 30" dual monitors are recommended
[19:14:23] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos: Works nicely on a 1GB usb stick... http://pendrivelinux.com/2007/01/01/usb-knoppix-510/
[19:14:42] <fenn> dsl works on a 64MB i think
[19:14:50] <fenn> but you already have dsl so nevermind
[19:15:12] <SWPadnos> yeah - I guess the real question is which OS tomp wants to end up with
[19:15:18] <SWPadnos> RH3 should fit as well ;)
[19:15:22] <Jymmmm> ew
[19:15:24] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:15:46] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos you should slap yourself for that one
[19:15:55] <alex_joni> anyone speaks python in here?
[19:16:57] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos got the eChain mounted (did inside on the X axis), gotta buy some split look tubing and some molex pins (and maybe crimper)
[19:17:06] <Jymmmm> s/look/loom/
[19:17:32] <pier> alex_joni: wellcome back
[19:17:43] <alex_joni> thx pier
[19:28:10] <tomp> Jymmm: because its so easy to try, i got the cf chip empty and mount says its vfat, is that same as fat32? i can mount the .iso image and copy the contents to the cf. I see teh bios allows booting the 2nd hd, whatever/wherever that might be
[19:29:10] <anonimasu> hm
[19:33:05] <tomp> ok, vfat not same as fat32, but the format of the cf can be changed ;)
[19:33:30] <SWPadnos> vfat encompasses fat32 and long file names
[19:33:48] <jepler> but can't vfat also indicate fat16 + long file names
[19:33:56] <jepler> ?
[19:33:59] <SWPadnos> you can use vfat for FAT12, FAT16, and FAT32 filesystems, I think
[19:34:25] <SWPadnos> I'm sure vfat can do any combination, regardless of whether Windows may have ever used it :)
[19:35:39] <jepler> since FAT12 is floppies, I assume it did
[19:36:27] <tomp> k, thanks, was just about to format the cf ! will just copy contents of the mounted iso to it ( ubunutu 6.06 alternate for mem < 192 meg )
[20:03:31] <xemet> hello
[20:03:31] <Jymmmm> tomp: what they said.
[20:07:40] <Jymmmm> Jymmmm is now known as Jymmm
[20:12:22] <DavidMTL> hi, the HAL docs suggest using 'dot' in pin names. The utility Comp doesn't seem to let you use dots
[20:12:54] <SWPadnos> comp adds dots where appropriate, I think
[20:13:08] <DavidMTL> it used underscores, not dots
[20:13:11] <SWPadnos> the name you use in comp has to be a valid C identifier
[20:13:33] <SWPadnos> well, you should get soemthing like comp.0.pin_name
[20:13:34] <DavidMTL> for ex if I say device.something, it gives an error
[20:13:53] <SWPadnos> right - a dot is a structure member reference in C
[20:13:57] <DavidMTL> if I say device_somthing it converts to device-somthing
[20:14:31] <DavidMTL> So I guess there is no way woth comp to follow HAL docs guidelines
[20:14:44] <SWPadnos> DavidMTL, that may be so. what are you trying to do?
[20:14:46] <robin_sz> meep
[20:15:01] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Jymmmmmm
[20:15:02] <DavidMTL> use comp to create a .ko
[20:15:08] <DavidMTL> for my device
[20:15:11] <SWPadnos> I think the dot suggestion is for separating instances or functions from each other, not something to be used inside a name
[20:15:23] <DavidMTL> I can write it in C but it defeats the purpose of comp
[20:15:29] <SWPadnos> for example, parport.0.pin-08.out
[20:15:56] <SWPadnos> there are several things that comp doesn't support - I think arrays are one of them
[20:16:00] <DavidMTL> ok
[20:16:11] <DavidMTL> I will write in C then
[20:16:38] <SWPadnos> note the dots in that parport pin: parport (module name) 0 (instance) pin-o8 (sub-device) out (function)
[20:16:40] <SWPadnos> sort of :)
[20:17:04] <jepler> Isn't it called: parport.0.pin-08-out
[20:17:16] <jepler> in comp you'd create this with: pin out bit pin_08_out;
[20:17:20] <DavidMTL> ok
[20:17:41] <SWPadnos> could be - I'm running from memory (and possibly imagination :) ) )here
[20:17:45] <DavidMTL> I ws looking at various other hal files and saw dots all over that place in some of them
[20:17:48] <DavidMTL> wasn't sure
[20:18:17] <jepler> The usual structure is: <driver>.<instance>.<name>
[20:18:35] <jepler> in the .comp file 'pin' declrations, you're declaring <name> only
[20:18:58] <DavidMTL> ok
[20:19:25] <eholmgren> pier: removing acpi worked?
[20:19:28] <SWPadnos> or <driver>.<instance>.<function>.<instance>.<name>.<instance>, though I'm not sure there are any that have all 3 instance numbers
[20:19:55] <SWPadnos> ppmc does have the other 5 though: ppmc.0.encoder.0.phase-a (or similar)
[20:19:56] <jepler> yeah -- that you can't do in comp
[20:20:03] <pier> hi eholmgren, yes indeen
[20:20:12] <pier> indeed
[20:20:20] <eholmgren> good to hear
[20:20:37] <jepler> so in the driver for pluto-servo I used <driver>.<function>-<instance>-<name>
[20:20:39] <eholmgren> can't even remember where I read that, but I figured it'd be worth a shot :)
[20:20:42] <SWPadnos> DavidMTL, which document (and roughly where) is the comment about using dots in HAL names?
[20:20:45] <DavidMTL> then I should use stepgen_00_enable and it gets converted to arcnc100.0.stepgen-00-enable
[20:20:53] <pier> eholmgren: emc runs beautifully now
[20:21:02] <jepler> IMHO this is perfectly acceptable
[20:22:07] <SWPadnos> it's acceptable, but may not save too much time for something that has dozens of functions (since you have to explicitly name each, rather than using a loop to create pins that point to an array, for example)
[20:22:14] <DavidMTL> SWPadnos: I will try to find it. But I may be confused from what I saw in existing hal devices like ppmc
[20:22:59] <SWPadnos> you should look at the section on canonical device interfaces - those are what you should provide in your driver
[20:23:05] <jepler> unfortunately comp hurts as much as it helps when you want to have N identical functions in one instance (e.g., 4 step generators)
[20:23:17] <jepler> what you really want is some kind of array syntax, but it's not currently possible
[20:23:19] <pier> eholmgren: now I am trying to learn a bit more about RT before daring to read emc source code
[20:23:21] <jepler> swp mentioned that earlier
[20:23:47] <SWPadnos> so you'll have something like arcnc100.0.encoder.0.<various pins and params>
[20:24:15] <xemet> jepler: still having no luck with the spaceball, but something incredible happens...if I use inputattch --spaceorb instead of --spaceball...then my spaceball beeps and js0 is created in /dev/input/...but of course i do not have a spaceorb so if I try the calibration every axis remain always to 0...
[20:24:25] <SWPadnos> and then arcnc100.0.pwm.0.<PWM interface pins>
[20:24:26] <SWPadnos> etc.
[20:25:01] <xemet> At this point I think that therei is a bug in the spaceball module or my spaceball is not supported...
[20:25:05] <SWPadnos> (actually, a PWM is treated as a DAC, so you'd implement the DAC interface for that)
[20:25:30] <DavidMTL> ok, thanks
[20:26:04] <pier> eholmgren: I am playing around with my first c..p RT module doing a ramp with the speaker
[20:26:45] <jepler> xemet: that's too bad
[20:27:15] <SWPadnos> bbl
[20:27:56] <pier> eholmgren: but there is always a bit of an error with the frequency I get in the steady part of the ramp... 1506Hz, 1530Hz, etc, never 1500Hz straight :(
[20:28:54] <xemet> it's incredible...js0 is created also if I try all the other devices...mouse, joysticks etc...SpaceBall is the only that doesn't create js0
[20:29:21] <xemet> I'm not lucky...
[20:50:32] <fenn> so create js0 and be done with it
[20:50:54] <jepler> fenn: doesn't help, you get ENODEV
[21:01:55] <xemet> no it doesn't work...
[21:02:37] <xemet> ah, when I use the --spaceorb mode instead of --spaceball, a beautifull spaceorb fully functional is shown by my device manager...
[21:03:29] <xemet> of course when I use --spaceball the device manager shows only a new serial but no specific device
[21:04:05] <fenn> a-l-p-h-a/jepler here's your new wordpress theme http://themes.wordpress.net/testrun/?wptheme=1418
[21:05:13] <xemet> I've contacted the author of joystick driver Vojtech Pavlik...maybe he will answer my question
[21:05:31] <xemet> and I've contacted also the 3Dconnexion team...maybe they know the problem...
[21:58:48] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:59:47] <ejholmgren_> haha, that theme is great
[21:59:55] <ejholmgren_> 'night
[22:27:21] <pier> night all
[22:31:41] <CIA-19> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/hal_m5i20.c: hal bits are considered true for any non-zero value, not just 1
[22:36:36] <Bo^Dick> i've got a question about stepper motors
[22:36:44] <Bo^Dick> i've figured out how to determine which wires are for which coil
[22:36:51] <Bo^Dick> but i don't know how to determine the polarity
[22:40:17] <fenn> there is no polarity inherent in the motor
[22:43:21] <CIA-19> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/hal_m5i20.c: backport: hal bits are considered true for any non-zero value, not just 1
[22:45:02] <owhite> I think the person I'm looking for is tomp, but does anyone here know about inserting images into pyvcp.xml files? :-)
[23:20:32] <robin_sz> Bo^Dick it doesnt really matter ... if it goes backwartds, just reverse one coil
[23:20:58] <robin_sz> the only time it does matter is when trying to series/ // an 8 wire motor
[23:21:38] <robin_sz> then its easy ... try it from a PSU. if it locks then you have them in phase, if it doesnt lock the motor, its outta pahse
[23:37:48] <skunkworks> logger_emc: bookmark
[23:37:48] <skunkworks> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-02-16.txt