#emc | Logs for 2007-01-22

[00:51:28] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/encoder.9: add man page
[00:55:12] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/emc2.files.in: backport: added man page for encoder counter
[00:55:13] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/encoder.9: backport: added man page for encoder counter
[01:28:04] <ejholmgren> fenn: what is the machinerys-handbook?
[01:28:42] <Jymmmm> ejholmgren http://www.industrialpress.com/en/MachinerysHandbook/default.aspx
[01:28:45] <fenn> it's all the standard threads and stuff, common formulas and tables, feeds and speeds
[01:28:53] <fenn> different types of alloys
[01:29:01] <fenn> all the sort of stuff you'd need to rebuild civilization from scratch, essentially
[01:29:12] <fenn> and have it interoperate nicely
[01:29:35] <ejholmgren> what format is it inside the tar file you have?
[01:29:40] <fenn> pdf's
[01:29:42] <Skullworks> best table for thread fits in print
[01:29:52] <lerman> Well, not quite civilization. There is no chapter on wine making as far as I recall. :-)
[01:29:51] <fenn> i can untar if you'd like
[01:30:09] <Jymmmm> lerman Chapter 42
[01:30:15] <Skullworks> oooooooooooooh
[01:30:23] <ejholmgren> do you mind if I grab the .tar file? I can rate limit if you want
[01:30:24] <Jymmmm> ch 41 is beer
[01:30:42] <Jymmmm> 43 is making your own stile
[01:30:51] <fenn> ejholmgren: not at all
[01:30:51] <Skullworks> well there is a chapter on quenching in brine.
[01:31:10] <fenn> that's why it's there
[01:31:10] <Skullworks> vrs oil
[01:32:15] <fenn> already doing basic rate limiting with wondershaper
[01:32:38] <ejholmgren> just don't want to max out your upload for the time it will take to get 380M
[01:32:44] <ejholmgren> ok
[01:37:07] <A-L-P-H-A> umm... morally wrong. http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/540804/2389296/ http://www.mininova.org/tor/493894
[01:39:00] <Skullworks> but is it wrong if you bought the hardcover, and just want electronic searching/
[01:39:49] <A-L-P-H-A> Skullworks, technically it is wrong. But morally, I don't think so.
[01:40:19] <Skullworks> * Skullworks has a stack of 4 editions of machinery's handbooks.
[01:40:29] <A-L-P-H-A> it's like George Lucus, release VHS, get then an enhanced VHS, special edition, directors cut, and soon DVDs, or HDDVDs, or whatever...
[01:40:34] <SWPLinux> well, consider that they also sell the C-ROM version, separately (or in a pacakge with the book) for extra money
[01:40:38] <SWPLinux> CD-ROM, that is
[01:40:42] <A-L-P-H-A> I think if you own one... you should be allowed to own them all
[01:41:05] <SWPLinux> so yes, they seem to think that they're separate products, and considering that they own the copyright ...
[01:41:46] <Skullworks> but I never lost the books.... due to a HDD or other failure...
[01:41:58] <SWPLinux> and you still won't :)
[01:42:02] <fenn> i think it's morally wrong to charge money for electronic standards documents
[01:42:05] <Skullworks> yep
[01:42:33] <K`zan> jmkasunich: Cap bank jumps the voltage from 25.2 to 33.6!
[01:42:41] <SWPLinux> I agree, but you can't exactly claim the moral high ground when you flaunt laws you don't like, while talking about those you do like ...
[01:42:42] <Skullworks> and funny as it may sound, a paper bookmark is faster than a search function.
[01:43:08] <fenn> and $100k's is beyond anything i could ever hope to pay for
[01:43:12] <SWPLinux> (not that ISO policy is a law ...)
[01:43:50] <Skullworks> nobody enforces laws I like.
[01:43:58] <K`zan> "One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
[01:44:15] <K`zan> Never thought I would see the day I would quote that man...
[01:44:29] <Skullworks> its harder to get into some bars than it is to enter the US.
[01:44:47] <SWPLinux> try it as a foreign national one day ...
[01:45:00] <K`zan> Pass, thank you :)
[01:45:01] <fenn> yeah or maybe just change your name to mohammed
[01:45:05] <SWPLinux> especially with non-white skin
[01:45:29] <K`zan> Wonder why that might be?
[01:46:30] <fenn> * fenn wonders how to derail this conversation
[01:46:52] <K`zan> Don't signal and then move the switch :)
[01:48:23] <fenn> SWPadnos: you consider yourself self-employed right? how did you get started in all that?
[01:49:46] <Skullworks> example - extortion is not illeagal if done by a DA, because they call it "Plea barganing".
[01:51:03] <Skullworks> * Skullworks decides its time to pack up his soap box...
[01:51:34] <fenn> * fenn decides its time to go sit on the heater vent
[01:51:44] <K`zan> Skullworks: Won't work, most people are too brainwashed anymore to have a concept of "illegal".
[01:52:09] <SWPLinux> fenn: I co-founded a business while still in college, then left it to consult on my own when I got tired of dealing with my old business partners
[01:52:10] <K`zan> Wonder what folks use to draw stuff and generate G code?
[01:52:23] <Skullworks> well more like, "Its anyone elses fault but mine."
[01:52:27] <SWPLinux> though I'm not self-employed. I own all the shares of the corporation that employs me :)
[01:52:39] <K`zan> Skullworks: I see you understand how things work now.
[01:53:04] <K`zan> SWPLinux: That seems interesting...
[01:53:04] <Skullworks> all too well
[01:53:58] <K`zan> Skullworks: There are still a lot of people who understand it, but for some reason you don't seem to find them in big cities (usually).
[01:54:04] <Skullworks> K'zan For alot of stuff I use a dinosaur version of BOBCAD V12 Gold which runs in DOS
[01:54:50] <K`zan> Skullworks: I figure I should start thinking about that even though actual CNC is at least 4 months away at this point.
[01:55:05] <Skullworks> I have yet to attempt it under linux as it includes its own VGA driver.
[01:55:35] <K`zan> Skullworks: Wine (not that I would bet on it working, but...)
[01:56:09] <Skullworks> But I bought it at the Westec Tool Show in Los Angeles circa 1990-91
[01:56:59] <K`zan> :-)
[01:57:04] <Skullworks> yeah - wine - this is pure DOS - and it dosent love windows either.
[01:57:27] <Skullworks> so not sure what would happen under wine
[01:58:12] <K`zan> Try it, worst it can do is fail to work...
[01:59:12] <Skullworks> BTW I used it back then on a Compaq Deskpro 286N (pumped up to 13mb ram) with a genuine Intel 80287-10
[01:59:53] <K`zan> LOL, what would you really use more than 64k for? ;-)
[02:00:00] <cradek> Skullworks: what vga chipsets does it support? I'm lucky enough to have VESA drivers for my dos autocad
[02:00:17] <K`zan> I hope they did delays right, if not it could be a real problem on modern machines
[02:00:34] <Skullworks> its a generic 640x480
[02:00:50] <Skullworks> have not found anything it won't work on.
[02:00:51] <cradek> basic 16 color vga will work right in all emulators
[02:00:58] <K`zan> cradek: my autocad works fine with whatever drivers I have (when I can keep my lunch down long enough to run it :-).
[02:01:20] <Skullworks> right - its only 16 color
[02:01:25] <cradek> I'm perverse enough to kind of like using autocad 12
[02:02:15] <Skullworks> well - this version will import R12 DXF - just don't have any polylines...
[02:03:17] <K`zan> a13 here
[02:03:20] <Skullworks> otherwise it follows the path to the end, then comes back down the other side...
[02:03:40] <Skullworks> overlaping segments.
[02:04:33] <Skullworks> for 2d work I have not used anything faster.
[02:04:51] <Skullworks> due to the hotkey setup of the dos version
[02:05:48] <Skullworks> I have all the latest Win versions... great for 3d but way to slow and cumbersum for simple 2 1/2D work
[02:09:26] <Skullworks> Criss - are you the one using the pluto PWM driver on a lathe?
[02:13:19] <K`zan> dinner - bbl
[02:17:15] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/control.in: needed for lyx to pdf
[03:02:48] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/stepper/standard_pinout.hal: examples to answer the most common config questions
[03:06:07] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/stepper/standard_pinout.hal: examples to answer the most common config questions
[03:06:43] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/ (configure rules.in): this automatically re-runs debian/configure if it is needed
[03:26:39] <CIA-8> 03swpadnos 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/quickstart/stepper_quickstart.lyx: Add beginning of a Stepper configuration quick-start guide
[03:28:48] <CIA-8> 03swpadnos 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/quickstart/stepper_quickstart.lyx: backport: Add beginning of a Stepper configuration quick-start guide
[03:33:40] <CIA-8> 03swpadnos 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/quickstart/stepper_quickstart.lyx: Oops - wrong version before
[03:33:57] <CIA-8> 03swpadnos 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/quickstart/stepper_quickstart.lyx: Oops - wrong version before
[04:09:44] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/Submakefile: new quickstart pdfs
[04:26:21] <ds3> Hmmmm is the O code behavior RS274 or EMC specific?
[04:27:34] <Skullworks> neither
[04:28:16] <ds3> who's behavior does it follow?
[04:28:21] <Skullworks> Okuma uses someting simular - and claimes to be rs274d
[04:28:59] <Skullworks> EMC2 uses its own bastard implimentation
[04:29:36] <Skullworks> since it is not really part of the RS274D spec
[04:30:01] <ds3> Hmmm.... trying to figure out why I can't have an Oxxxx line by itself
[04:30:10] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/ (encoder.9 pwmgen.9 stepgen.9): fix pin naming conventions in manpage
[04:30:20] <Skullworks> right
[04:30:36] <Skullworks> must be a CALL oxxxx
[04:30:59] <Skullworks> the main program will not have an Oxxxx
[04:31:04] <ds3> is there a link for Okuma style G code?
[04:31:21] <Skullworks> not that I know of
[04:31:21] <ds3> HAAS/Fanuc wants a Oxxxx in the main program :/
[04:31:49] <Skullworks> I been programing for OSP5000, 5020 mill controls since 1990
[04:32:06] <ds3> want to put together a perl converter for HAAS
[04:32:17] <Skullworks> Okuma allows the main to have a Oxxxx
[04:32:22] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/ (encoder.9 pwmgen.9 stepgen.9): backport naming convention fixes
[04:32:27] <ds3> not questioning the correctness, just trying to figure out what to do with my existing code =)
[04:33:31] <ds3> sounds like the "correct" thing is to drop the O code unless subroutines are detected?
[04:33:36] <Skullworks> but for subs instaed of a M98pxxxx you would use a CALL Oxxx
[04:33:58] <Skullworks> and in place of a m99 it would be RTS
[04:34:06] <Skullworks> but thats OKUMA
[04:34:16] <ds3> M99 is what I learned for for HAAS
[04:34:24] <Skullworks> right
[04:34:34] <Skullworks> I run those daily as well
[04:34:52] <ds3> cool, how different is the HAAS flavor from EMC?
[04:35:54] <Skullworks> there are several specific G codes theat EMC@ won't have
[04:36:21] <Skullworks> G84 is floating only for now
[04:36:38] <Skullworks> G73 does not exist
[04:37:09] <Skullworks> trying to remember about G12/G13
[04:37:44] <Skullworks> HAAS made up a good package
[04:38:14] <Skullworks> stole the best of both FANUC and Yasnaq
[04:38:16] <ds3> 'cept it makes it hard to goto another control when one has been spoiled by HAAS ;)
[04:39:24] <Skullworks> well... to be honest I like my Fanuc 18 better... but not by much
[04:40:15] <ds3> the only fanuc I have access to is a 0T and it is painful to setup compared to a Haas SL series
[04:40:22] <Skullworks> OK - thats my new mission
[04:40:51] <Skullworks> I'll do a haas comparrison
[04:41:00] <Skullworks> post it to the wiki
[04:41:35] <Skullworks> now - your looking for mainly turning code?
[04:42:05] <Skullworks> or milling too?
[04:42:52] <ds3> both
[04:43:20] <ds3> the local JC has all Haas machines and Ibeen doing their program
[04:44:29] <Skullworks> I work @ mincomfg.com - offically just a green button pusher.
[04:44:49] <ds3> that's what a lot of people in the program is training to be
[04:45:34] <Skullworks> but I am a trainer and setup lead, bumped down when they combined the weekend shift back into the weekday crew.
[04:46:04] <Skullworks> been programing CNC's since Bandit controls circa 1983
[04:46:21] <ds3> sounds like one of the instructors there
[04:47:19] <ds3> but is the EMC G code mostly modeled after the Okuma stuff?
[04:47:27] <Skullworks> yeah well - got bumped to a lower title, but kept the pay grade...:}
[04:47:54] <ds3> pay is good
[04:48:13] <Skullworks> Weekend lead has 15yrs with the company - so he kept the title
[04:48:20] <Skullworks> pay is OK
[04:48:47] <Skullworks> manufacturing jobs in the US is not a good carrer choice anymore.
[04:48:55] <ds3> Hmmm
[04:49:45] <Skullworks> I even dropped the trade and went into computers from 99-02
[04:50:07] <Skullworks> much better money and cleaner work
[04:50:31] <Skullworks> but that died off to - all that got outsourced overseas.
[04:50:43] <ds3> hmmm
[04:51:45] <Skullworks> I work where I work because the company has process patents that make ther methods profitable
[04:51:59] <Skullworks> but barely
[04:52:14] <ds3> where are they/you?
[04:53:07] <Skullworks> the chinese can try to make the same part, and scrap 4 out of 5 for quality issues - while our process has much better yeilds
[04:53:27] <Skullworks> Colorado Springs, CO USA
[04:54:08] <ds3> so there are still manufacturing scattered all over
[04:54:31] <Skullworks> yes - but nothing like it was 20 years ago
[04:54:57] <Skullworks> maybe 5% of the jobs remain
[04:55:51] <Skullworks> as a Tool & Die man I used to make the Dies that form Craftsman screwdrivers.
[04:57:16] <Skullworks> now I make fuser rollers for HP, Canon, Ricoh, Panasonic, and Lexmark
[04:57:45] <Skullworks> and thats going to die out soon to likely
[04:58:25] <Skullworks> the shift now is towards full color hi-speed copiers and laser printers
[04:59:25] <Skullworks> because a B&W image printed with color appears sharper to the human eye.
[05:00:31] <Skullworks> so - I'm kinda planing my semi-retirement
[05:00:56] <Skullworks> build up a few CNC machines for my private shop
[05:01:30] <Skullworks> and do custom prototype work part time.
[05:02:29] <Skullworks> big jobs I just sub out to the best equiped job shop
[05:04:54] <ds3> hmmmm
[05:05:03] <ds3> wish they still have a T&D program at the local JC
[05:05:52] <Skullworks> they dropped all machining and most engineering for our JC
[05:06:04] <Skullworks> its a shame
[05:06:57] <fenn> what's JC stand for?
[05:07:06] <jmkasunich> junior college?
[05:07:19] <Skullworks> yep
[05:07:53] <Skullworks> Pikes Peak Community College
[05:08:50] <Skullworks> I don't know what is still offered by UCCS
[05:09:09] <Skullworks> but I doubt its much good
[05:09:17] <tomp_> good night all
[05:10:22] <ds3> soon the next excuse will be there isn't anyone left that knows how to do it
[05:10:47] <Skullworks> * Skullworks wonders how he got up on this soapbox again...?
[05:11:01] <ds3> =)
[05:12:21] <K`zan> Because you can see what the morons that killed it can'd...
[05:13:01] <Skullworks> no use in taking on students, if there will be no jobs for them....
[05:14:08] <Skullworks> the machinist training program here was seriously supported by local shops to provide a skilled workforce
[05:14:32] <Skullworks> most those shops have closed up
[05:15:48] <Skullworks> when you can fax a print to malaysia - and get the die FED-x in 30days at half the local cost...
[05:15:52] <ds3> 'cept right now you have engineering students that can't do anything practical
[05:16:02] <Skullworks> this is true
[05:17:11] <ds3> there is only so much you can do on a ProE station w/o doing some building
[05:17:45] <Skullworks> the one regret I have was when I was in college they were just starting to use the LED calculators
[05:18:33] <Skullworks> so they never pushed the slide rule.
[05:19:10] <Skullworks> I never really got a chance to learn the "slipstick"
[05:19:21] <ds3> at the least they should know how to do it by hand and even that is being dropped
[05:20:51] <Skullworks> ProE
[05:21:14] <Skullworks> take a pick axe to the HDD
[05:22:05] <Skullworks> Our prior head engineer would only use Proe
[05:22:34] <Skullworks> now he's gone, and what a pain it is
[05:23:04] <Skullworks> Even Catia isn't as retro
[05:24:51] <Skullworks> well I'm done - stuff me in my box and call it a night - 3am will be here too soon.
[05:30:00] <jmkasunich> goodnight all
[07:01:50] <K`zan> Night all
[08:14:48] <maddash> gah
[09:17:06] <anonimasu> hello
[09:24:11] <Jymmm> olleh
[09:24:27] <anonimasu> what's up?
[09:24:43] <Jymmm> chaos as usual
[09:25:13] <Jymmm> Jsut trying to get the garage to one layer deep so I can setup the machine.
[09:26:00] <anonimasu> :)
[09:26:02] <anonimasu> nice
[09:26:52] <Jymmm> It's been rough.... every time I turn around murphy has been ahrd at work.
[09:27:52] <anonimasu> fenn: drop me a message when you wake up
[11:05:23] <Martin_Lundstrom> Hello everyone
[11:06:18] <Martin_Lundstrom> What is the status of any 3d path generating with a linux application, is there any good?
[11:28:03] <Martin_Lundstrom> I have seen some stuff made in blender
[11:38:40] <anonimasu> Martin_Lundstrom: there's one commercial program that does it..
[11:38:54] <anonimasu> "synergy"
[11:40:09] <anonimasu> Martin_Lundstrom: though as for opensource/free stuff I have no idea
[11:44:13] <Martin_Lundstrom> I can see some stuff at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?Cam
[11:47:24] <Martin_Lundstrom> Hmm http://www.editthis.info/opencam/Main_Page#OpenCAM
[11:51:00] <Martin_Lundstrom> "Chris Radek's TrueTypeTracer" your famous ;)
[11:54:54] <Martin_Lundstrom> Anyone have used cam.occ? http://cam.occ.googlepages.com/screenshots
[12:37:57] <anonimasu> http://gcam.js.cx/index.php/Main_Page
[12:44:17] <Dallur> ahh
[12:44:29] <Dallur> how goes with the prototype anonimasu ?
[13:06:07] <anonimasu> Dallur: not good
[13:06:36] <anonimasu> Dallur: trying to find out how to get vtk to create objects without making them actors..
[13:08:17] <anonimasu> im looking at how to get opengl and python working togther :)
[13:25:23] <awallin> hi all, what's up?
[13:25:44] <anonimasu> awallin: working
[13:31:41] <anonimasu> and pondering about simulation
[13:37:59] <anonimasu> rather visualization
[13:40:32] <awallin> of a matchstick model ?
[13:41:19] <anonimasu> yeah
[13:42:29] <anonimasu> logger_emc: bookamrak
[13:42:29] <anonimasu> I'm logging. I don't understand 'bookamrak', anonimasu. Try /msg logger_emc help
[13:42:33] <anonimasu> logger_emc: bookmark
[13:42:33] <anonimasu> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-01-22.txt
[13:43:20] <awallin> anonimasu: did you try anything in opengl?
[13:44:19] <anonimasu> awallin: still trying to make a window that work with pyopengl
[13:44:28] <anonimasu> i'll code a matchstick class afterwards..
[13:45:00] <awallin> we need something to get us form a matchstick matrix (possibly with irregular spacings) to a triangulation (traingels are easy in opengl)
[13:45:05] <anonimasu> yeah
[13:45:34] <anonimasu> seems like making a window is hard with pyopengl
[13:45:34] <anonimasu> :D
[13:45:44] <anonimasu> irregular spacings?
[13:45:52] <fenn> anonimasu: you rang?
[13:46:14] <anonimasu> fenn: yeah, but I've forgotten what I had in mind
[13:46:40] <anonimasu> im trying to make a glut window.. but it dosent seem like it can render stuff.
[13:47:16] <anonimasu> there is a tkinter widget in python 2.2..
[13:47:38] <fenn> i didnt get anything to work in vtk
[13:47:51] <anonimasu> fenn: anything?
[13:48:01] <fenn> i gave up pretty early though
[13:48:05] <awallin> with the enthought installation on winXP, a few vtk examples did work
[13:48:23] <awallin> and on my old computer I had some pyopengl examples working - but I can't find them now...
[13:48:39] <fenn> was trying to display the array as a surface or a contour or with the dataset mapper but it didnt work mostly because i didnt know what i was doing
[13:49:57] <anonimasu> I find python programmers the laziest people on earth..
[13:50:06] <anonimasu> damn bastards too lazy to print proper docs.
[13:50:15] <anonimasu> :D
[13:50:21] <anonimasu> same goes for pyopengl
[13:50:22] <fenn> its vtk that's missing docs
[13:50:39] <anonimasu> pyopengl also
[13:50:46] <awallin> kitware wants you to buy their books!
[13:50:58] <fenn> apparently
[13:51:22] <fenn> i hate books
[13:53:40] <anonimasu> :)
[13:56:22] <anonimasu> hm
[13:56:55] <anonimasu> why is all api's crap.
[13:57:25] <anonimasu> :D
[13:57:32] <anonimasu> *whine*
[14:12:32] <lerman> awallin: "marching cubes" is the way to transform from matchsticks to triangles.
[14:13:02] <lerman> (Actually voxels to triangles, but matchsticks are just stacks of voxels.)
[14:14:10] <awallin> I'm not sure that matchsticks == stack of voxels
[14:15:04] <lerman> Other than details of resolution, in what way are they not.
[14:15:50] <awallin> in the matchstick model, I would draw the surface triangles between the tips of the sticks
[14:16:10] <awallin> that's a different surface from just replacing each stick with a "bar" of a certain area
[14:17:05] <lerman> Are you considering the sticks to just be points?
[14:17:12] <awallin> yes
[14:17:22] <anonimasu> well, if we use native opengl..
[14:17:39] <anonimasu> we will have face backface culling and stuff automagically
[14:18:27] <lerman> Then just go down the rows one at a time, making triangles connected to their neighbors. I think openGL calls them 'strips'.
[14:18:42] <anonimasu> nope
[14:18:53] <anonimasu> that's a triangle strip..
[14:18:53] <lerman> because?
[14:19:13] <lerman> OK.
[14:19:51] <anonimasu> http://jdobry.webpark.cz/opengl/opengl_maximum_performance.html
[14:19:57] <lerman> At any rate, converting matchsticks to triangles (or quads or whatever) is pretty simple.
[14:20:12] <anonimasu> yeah..
[14:20:23] <anonimasu> sticks are easier to make since you dont have to care about capping the end..
[14:20:57] <anonimasu> though for undercuts, we would use triangle strips for the walls of the sticks..
[14:21:14] <anonimasu> but, how that would work in practice is harder :)
[14:22:17] <lerman> Undercuts get you back to dexels. I did find a paper on converting dexels to triangles; but it looked like it would have to be a batch operation rather than an incremental one.
[14:22:21] <awallin> did anyone find a paper with the math worked out for how to cut the sticks with a certain shape cutter and a give G0/1/2/3 move?
[14:23:43] <lerman> I would characterize it as 'algorithm' rather than math; but yes there are a bunch of papers related to that. Also the patent I found is a pretty good reference.
[14:26:29] <awallin> so we have no problems then? :) somebody just needs to write it all up and test it...
[14:27:57] <lerman> I'd love to, but there is too much already on my plate.
[14:29:54] <lerman> anonimasu: just read that performance paper. Good info. Thanks.
[14:30:21] <Martin_Lundstrom> is there any low prised 5 axis g code tools around exept rainea?
[14:31:01] <awallin> I bet there aren't. Do you have a 5-axis machine?
[14:31:12] <lerman> I assume you are asking for tools to generate g code; not interpret it.
[14:31:27] <Martin_Lundstrom> the code is not for my machine
[14:31:34] <Martin_Lundstrom> yes
[14:31:47] <lerman> EMC does (in principle) interpret g code.
[14:31:59] <Martin_Lundstrom> rainea is too basic
[14:32:26] <Martin_Lundstrom> but not generate
[14:32:54] <lerman> correct. EMC has no code generation tools.
[14:33:33] <lerman> (Not exactly true. There are some python scripts -- more for demo than anything real.
[14:33:39] <lerman> )
[14:33:49] <Martin_Lundstrom> anyone tried rainea for 5 axis toolpath generating?
[14:43:50] <awallin> anonimasu: how did you install pyopengl on winxp?
[14:47:00] <eholmgren> does anyone want to buy two dogs?
[14:47:08] <eholmgren> I'll sell them to you real cheap ;)
[14:47:32] <PWizard> Are they a matched pair?
[14:47:36] <eholmgren> can't get anything done down in the shop anymore ... efing puppies
[14:47:55] <eholmgren> no ... different stepping codes
[14:48:01] <PWizard> or will I need to add circuitry to bias them?
[14:48:06] <PWizard> hahah
[14:48:11] <skunkwork> anyone know the wiki page listing cam and cad software?
[14:48:51] <PWizard> I've got an off-topic question, but I want to ask you guys since this seems to be the most likely place to find this knowledge on IRC
[14:49:39] <PWizard> I have a device with an ATTiny26L chip that I need to reprogram. I'm in the states, and I want to find a nice cheap AVR-ISP programmer like this: http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?module=Freaks%20Tools&func=viewItem&item_id=744
[14:49:46] <tomp_> skunkworks: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Cam
[14:50:11] <PWizard> Any suggestions, or pointers on a more appropriate place to ask?
[14:50:37] <skunkwork> tomp_: thanks much
[14:51:11] <tomp_> PWizard join microcontrollers
[14:51:23] <PWizard> tomp_, thanks
[14:53:22] <awallin> tomp_: I added your dial widget to pyvcp yesterday
[14:53:57] <tomp_> thanks, i have tooltips now, but dont care much for 'em
[14:54:34] <awallin> ?
[14:55:03] <tomp_> when mouse is over a widget, a text from the xml pops up
[14:55:25] <awallin> right, that could be useful ?
[14:55:36] <tomp_> <ttiptext>this is the button you want</ttiptext>
[14:56:04] <awallin> yeah, if you pastebin the code I can look at it tonite
[14:56:19] <tomp_> doing it now
[14:58:22] <tomp_> awallin: http://pastebin.ca/324613
[14:59:06] <awallin> thanks
[14:59:17] <awallin> it will be a few hours before I have time to look at it
[14:59:35] <tomp_> it needs 2 things, a timeout, and ability to change the text, and enable/disable (*3 things... spanish inquisition)
[15:00:27] <tomp_> i just dont understand the DOM of python/tkinter... so i cant modify the thingy...
[15:01:34] <awallin> please could you do any further work on this relative to the pyvcp_widgets.py currently in HEAD
[15:01:59] <awallin> I renamed some variables to make the Dial code a bit clearer (I think)
[15:02:58] <Dallur> anonimasu,awallin: Been thinking about a generic object model to store any/all geometric objects/shapes and I would appreciate comments/suggestions -> http://www.pastebin.ca/324619
[15:03:29] <tomp_> awallin: didnt I use a base source from head? & renaming vars is fine
[15:04:12] <awallin> tomp_: the tooltip code is not based on yesterdays HEAD, but that's ok...
[15:07:34] <awallin> Dallur: I like the relational geometry concept which is used in MultiSurf: http://www.aerohydro.com/products/rg/papers/cad/rgs-pt1.htm
[15:08:00] <awallin> I can send you the paper later today if you remind me, I have it somewhere on my hd, just can't find it now
[15:08:24] <PWizard> tomp_, ##microcontrollers seems a little quiet; any other channels that might be helpful? Thanks for the tip, btw.
[15:09:05] <awallin> Dallur: there's more at http://www.aerohydro.com/products/rg/rg.htm#papers
[15:09:37] <Dallur> awallin: that would be great, I would really like to use an existing "standard" if one is available
[15:10:33] <awallin> that scheme would be good for a new CAD program, not neccessarily for a CAM program which would need to import all kinds of files (DXF, IGES, STL etc)
[15:11:14] <tomp_> PWizard: i dont know offhand, but it's like google, just invent a name, and see if any group is connected to that name... else part and try again :)
[15:11:31] <Dallur> awallin: if there is a format which can be fed any of those formats and can generate g-code from that format that would make life easier
[15:12:20] <PWizard> tomp_, heheh, thanks
[15:15:03] <Dallur> awallin: I think it might be simpler to generate a 3D object model and build the g-code from that and then de-couple the parsing entirely
[15:19:53] <tomp_> is this correct way to get a fresh checkout of head? (not-a-dev) cvs -z5 -d:ext:anon@cvs.linuxcnc.org:/cvs co -rHEAD emc2.1-alpha0 ( i already hid my last version for safety )
[15:20:29] <awallin> Dallur: here are some notes on relational geometry: http://www.pastebin.ca/324632
[15:20:47] <awallin> tomp_: probalby only 'emc2' at the end
[15:20:53] <tomp_> thanks
[15:21:10] <awallin> 2.1 would get you the 2.1 branch
[15:21:22] <awallin> maybe
[15:22:37] <awallin> Dallur: what do you mean by parsing ?
[15:22:52] <awallin> reading in DXF or similar to a program
[15:23:00] <Dallur> awallin: yes
[15:25:55] <awallin> RG is nice when you get used to it (parametric), but it might be a bit awkward at first if you are used to Rhino or something similar
[15:27:24] <awallin> then it will depend on what kind of stuff is possible to define in DXF or IGES, if we want to be able to read in everything that is possible...
[15:28:11] <jepler> tomp_: You need "-rv2_1_branch" to get 2.1, not "-rHEAD"
[15:28:22] <Dallur> awallin: true, but I think the first step is to define a a format which can store without loss any geometric object created by any CAD app
[15:28:34] <jepler> tomp_: if you want to name the directory that 'cvs co' creates, use -demc2.1-alpha0
[15:28:34] <cradek> in fact you never want -rHEAD
[15:28:40] <awallin> Dallur: the problem with that is "any", that might include a _lot_
[15:28:54] <tomp_> jepler: thanks & thanks :)
[15:29:17] <awallin> Dallur: found any good specifications for DXF, IGES, STL on the net?
[15:29:34] <Dallur> awallin: adobe has pretty good spec for dxf on their website
[15:30:09] <Dallur> awallin: and pythoncad has a module to parse dxf, it's not complete but it's a reference
[15:30:18] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/gdepth.png
[15:30:35] <Dallur> awallin: that's what I used, but I plan to cut it out, it's easier to rewrite
[15:31:02] <awallin> jepler: what are we looking at?
[15:31:23] <cradek> looks like spiral.ngc cut with a ball end mill
[15:31:30] <jepler> cradek: bingo
[15:31:43] <jepler> close up: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/gdepth2.png
[15:32:00] <jepler> it's a 4x4 area rendered at 200dpi
[15:32:27] <awallin> this is a matchstick model?
[15:32:32] <jepler> about 1.2 million OpenGL triangles
[15:32:37] <cradek> what is the tool's dia?
[15:32:44] <jepler> cradek: .3 inches
[15:33:27] <tomp_> jepler: help please cvs [checkout aborted]: no such tag -rv2_1_branch
[15:33:44] <awallin> jepler: so where's the code? ;)
[15:33:56] <awallin> tomp_: for the latest pyvcp you want HEAD ! not 2.1
[15:34:11] <cradek> tomp_: cvs -d:ext:anon@cvs.linuxcnc.org:/cvs co -demc2.trunk emc2
[15:34:33] <cradek> tomp_: or, for the branch, cvs -d:ext:anon@cvs.linuxcnc.org:/cvs co -demc2.v2_1_branch -rv2_1_branch emc2
[15:35:27] <tomp_> cradek , does the latter give me what awallin wants me to use?
[15:35:27] <jepler> awallin: I'm not sure what "matchstick model" means
[15:35:38] <awallin> cradek: so is HEAD now called trunk ??
[15:35:39] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/gdepth.py
[15:35:43] <jepler> my commandline: python gdepth.py -t .3 -x "-2.1 2.1" -y "-2.1 2.1" -r 200 -o spiral.png emc2.cvs/nc_files/spiral.ngc
[15:35:58] <cradek> awallin: yes, every branch has a head, so we were using the term wrong
[15:36:01] <jepler> it only works for some of the emc2 nc_files and I'm not sure why
[15:36:13] <awallin> jepler: heightmap, for each x,y point in a grid, store the height of the stock z
[15:36:31] <jepler> awallin: yes, that's what this is
[15:36:54] <cradek> tomp_: no, you want the first one (trunk)
[15:37:04] <awallin> cool, you coded this yourself just now?
[15:37:04] <tomp_> lol
[15:37:11] <Dallur> awallin: I have been looking around for the last couple of days, reading up on 3D modeling and the math behind the whole thing and from the looks of it any 3d object created by any CAD app can be represented by NURBS, what I propose is to handle straight lines and constant radius curves in a simpler more efficient way but to create NURBS from all splines, this should in theory be able to handle all geometries created by any CAD app
[15:37:11] <jepler> awallin: worked on it some yesterday then added the opengl preview today
[15:38:16] <awallin> jepler: psyco is some kind of opengl wrapper?
[15:38:39] <jepler> awallin: no, it's supposed to be a general speed-up for python -- it didn't seem to make a big difference
[15:38:44] <jepler> awallin: I used minigl, the opengl wrapper included with emc2
[15:39:08] <awallin> ah, the import command is halfway down the file...
[15:42:28] <jepler> it also writes the depth information as a .png file
[15:42:32] <cradek> jepler: in AXIS: File/Preview?
[15:42:59] <cradek> considering it won't be fast enough to use all the time?
[15:43:02] <jepler> cradek: it's not ready for that yet
[15:43:07] <jepler> but maybe someday
[15:43:12] <cradek> sure
[15:43:32] <cradek> AXIS already knows the program extents
[15:43:47] <cradek> nothing about tool shape (in mill mode) though
[15:44:57] <tomp_> i doubt i have all the imports to try it, how long did it take to render?
[15:45:01] <jepler> yeah, but I can get diameter but not shape
[15:50:29] <awallin> jepler: how long does it take to run?
[15:53:44] <jepler> awallin: that example takes about 2 minutes to prepare and then it can be rotated/translated/zoomed at about 5fps. I'm running it on a 933MHz machine, displaying over the network to my workstation with a fairly powerful nvidia card.
[15:54:10] <jepler> "GeForce 6600 GT"
[15:54:19] <SWPadnos> hahahahaha
[15:54:26] <SWPadnos> err - hi :)
[15:54:34] <jepler> SWPadnos: you're going to tell me your card is better?
[15:54:38] <SWPadnos> nope
[15:54:57] <skunkwork> jepler: that is damn cool.
[15:55:03] <skunkwork> nice work
[15:55:15] <alex_joni> hi samco
[15:55:34] <skunkwork> * skunkwork still hasn't played with the new debs :(
[15:55:39] <alex_joni> jepler: only a bit better :)
[15:55:50] <alex_joni> * alex_joni thinks of dual FX3500 in SLI
[15:56:08] <skunkwork> morning axex
[15:56:08] <skunkwork> alex
[15:56:13] <skunkwork> ;)
[15:56:16] <alex_joni> evening :)
[15:56:41] <Dallur> hey alex
[15:57:21] <jepler> updated http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/gdepth.py with improved lighting
[15:58:45] <tomp_> jepler: very nice preview generation, & thanks, the new 'emc2-trunk is running now
[15:58:48] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/gdepth3.png
[15:58:50] <lerneaen_hydra> 'lo
[15:58:56] <Dallur> hey
[15:59:14] <jepler> unfortunately I should spend the rest of my day doing my real worl
[15:59:15] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler, ooh, looks like sim?
[15:59:56] <Dallur> We need to find someone to pay jepler to make this "real work"
[15:59:57] <skunkwork> jepler: Is that actual machine path? what is the input scale? (seeing the roughness of it) - is that what we are seeing?
[16:00:13] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: yes, it's an approximation of the remaining material after milling "spiral.ngc"
[16:00:39] <lerneaen_hydra> cool
[16:00:50] <lerneaen_hydra> what type of material sim is it?
[16:01:01] <jepler> skunkwork: no, it's the ideal path read from an .ngc file. that image is at 200 samples per inch
[16:01:12] <lerneaen_hydra> depth map?
[16:01:13] <jepler> yes
[16:01:30] <lerneaen_hydra> ok, so no undercutting, IMO good enough for 3-axis milling
[16:01:35] <lerneaen_hydra> how's performance?
[16:01:44] <lerneaen_hydra> 5-10fps?
[16:02:02] <jepler> that example (4x4 inches, 200dpi) takes about 2 minutes to create, navigates at about 5fps
[16:02:29] <lerneaen_hydra> 2 minutes?!
[16:02:39] <lerneaen_hydra> that was longer than I had expected
[16:02:54] <jepler> sorry to disappoint you
[16:03:21] <lerneaen_hydra> :p
[16:03:33] <alex_joni> what time does it take to run it in sim/AXIS ?
[16:03:37] <lerneaen_hydra> I don't see why it should take so long though
[16:03:59] <alex_joni> * alex_joni bets a bit more :)
[16:04:01] <lerneaen_hydra> essentially all you're doing is painting with a round brush in a spiral
[16:04:03] <cradek> jepler: since you have enough data to get vertex normals, can you do smoothing?
[16:04:10] <jepler> cradek: sure but it'll make it slower and lerneaen_hydra wouldn't like that
[16:04:20] <tomp_> jepler: if i modify make_tool_shape(f, dia): so it described a formed electrode for sink edm, and just plunged straight down some depth, then the render would reflect the correct cavity!? it's amazing what you coded in those few bytes
[16:04:23] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler, :p
[16:04:36] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, wait, was this running under the RT kernel?
[16:04:49] <lerneaen_hydra> or did it suck up 100% cpu?
[16:05:09] <SWPadnos> 933 MHz machine, remote display to computer with GeForce 6600
[16:05:22] <SWPadnos> jepler, I think it's fantastic. great work
[16:05:37] <alex_joni> * alex_joni adds "as usual
[16:05:49] <SWPadnos> oops - sorry. haven't had coffee yet ;)
[16:05:50] <jepler> I ran it under 'time', and when I closed the window it reported 59.9 seconds "user" time and 1.1 seconds "sys" time
[16:05:54] <jepler> bbl
[16:05:55] <lerneaen_hydra> 5-10 fps sounds quite fast though
[16:06:01] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler, oh, I see
[16:06:17] <lerneaen_hydra> how often is the "brush" updated?
[16:06:24] <lerneaen_hydra> once every 1/200th inch?
[16:06:27] <SWPadnos> see - it's twice as fast now ;)
[16:07:26] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: the moves come from the EMC interpreter, so they are in theory ideal. only the stock model is discrete. if I understand correctly
[16:07:38] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[16:08:08] <lerneaen_hydra> you think that updating it in discreet positions would be faster?
[16:08:25] <lerneaen_hydra> say at the same res as the "image"
[16:09:57] <awallin> probably not, that would break up one G1 move into several tiny moves, I don't see how that would speed up things
[16:10:20] <lerneaen_hydra> I was thinking for the "render to image" bit
[16:10:25] <awallin> the papers by jerard/drysdale talk about binning the matchsticks and then only considering those under the shadow of the tool when doing the calculations
[16:11:24] <alex_joni> * alex_joni lights a laser at your shadow
[16:12:46] <lerneaen_hydra> sharks!
[16:12:48] <lerneaen_hydra> and lasers!
[16:13:40] <lerneaen_hydra> alex_joni, can't you set up ciabot to say "Sharks! And Lasers!" every time someone says laser, but no more often than once per hour?
[16:13:42] <lerneaen_hydra> ;)
[16:14:02] <alex_joni> ciabot is not mine
[16:14:08] <alex_joni> it belongs to cia.navi.cx
[16:14:14] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[16:14:19] <lerneaen_hydra> what about logger_emc then ;)
[16:14:28] <alex_joni> do you know perl?
[16:14:30] <Dallur> I thought about that the other day, sharks and lasers are not a good combo, the corrosive marine environment, a powerpack big enough for a 100W+ laser and the fact that the water would wreck havoc with the beam.... I think Eagles with Lasers are so much better
[16:14:48] <lerneaen_hydra> alex_joni, no, but if I did, would you implement it?
[16:14:50] <alex_joni> eagles are too small for lasers
[16:14:56] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: I would use your patch
[16:15:06] <lerneaen_hydra> :O
[16:15:17] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra must learn perl
[16:15:50] <SWPLinux> eagles can carry deer - I think they can handle a puny laser
[16:16:27] <lerneaen_hydra> not the battery pack though, unless it's something like a small scale nuclear fission device, like the ones on some space probes
[16:16:31] <Dallur> SWPLinux: the problem is always with the fusion generator for the power
[16:16:45] <SWPLinux> oh - nukular eagles might be bad ;)
[16:16:55] <lerneaen_hydra> not at all ;)
[16:17:04] <Dallur> LH: I like that, Plutonium enriched Eagles !
[16:18:40] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah :D
[16:18:47] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[16:18:47] <lerneaen_hydra> better idea
[16:19:23] <lerneaen_hydra> just take something with a short half-life and use it subcritically (just use the passive radiation)
[16:19:28] <lerneaen_hydra> less volume possibly
[16:20:03] <Dallur> LH: that's what they do with the satellites, just a few hundred grams of plutonium coupled with a TEC Peltier
[16:20:16] <lerneaen_hydra> the halflife is probably much higher than the average lifespan of the eagles, with all the radiation poisoning they'd get
[16:20:20] <jepler> tomp_: yes, if the electrode is a simple shape that can be described by a depth at each location
[16:20:25] <lerneaen_hydra> Dallur, oh, they're also passive?
[16:20:42] <lerneaen_hydra> so no active control of the reaction
[16:20:46] <SWPLinux> better yet - just have the eagles drop rocks on people
[16:20:46] <Dallur> LH: Yup, just use the heat, most only get 200-500W
[16:21:09] <lerneaen_hydra> 200-500W output?
[16:21:13] <lerneaen_hydra> or heat?
[16:21:16] <Dallur> LH: Output
[16:21:37] <SWPLinux> make the eagles generate the power - tap into the wing motion and wind energy
[16:21:40] <lerneaen_hydra> damn, so that would be around 4000-8000W heat?
[16:21:54] <lerneaen_hydra> (5% efficiency)
[16:22:23] <Dallur> LH: Not sure, TEC's are probably pretty efficient when you have empty space around at just a degree or two kelvin
[16:22:24] <jepler> tomp_: a tool profile like <_> can't be expressed, because it isn't described by a single Z value at each location. A profile has to be like like V or U or |_|.
[16:22:40] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, carnot's law is nice when T_lower is very low
[16:22:43] <lerneaen_hydra> that's true
[16:22:53] <tomp_> jepler: cool! there would be no path in the way mills work, just a depth, and possibly a tiny circular path, say .010" radius at that depth, the corner detail would be of interest to
[16:22:54] <lerneaen_hydra> still, it must be quite hard to cool it down to ambient temp
[16:23:06] <lerneaen_hydra> as there's nearly no mass to give the heat to
[16:23:33] <Dallur> LH: Well you want the heat around, if those things get to cold they stop working
[16:23:35] <tomp_> jepler: i understand no undercut, and it was 'of interest to edm pepl'
[16:23:43] <Dallur> LH: So it's all about controlling the amount of IR radiation
[16:23:54] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, how hot do they want to be?
[16:24:00] <lerneaen_hydra> ~200K?
[16:24:30] <Dallur> LH: Not sure on the exact specs but they probably want to keep them above 200
[16:24:41] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, ok
[16:24:49] <lerneaen_hydra> sounds very possible then
[16:25:15] <lerneaen_hydra> (becuase if I say it's impossible, then there are no satellites)
[16:25:44] <Dallur> LH: Imagine trying to make capacitors and resistors for sub 200 temperatures, all the rules change
[16:25:50] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[16:25:53] <lerneaen_hydra> t3h nasty
[16:33:42] <eholmgren> <SWPLinux> eagles can carry deer
[16:33:45] <eholmgren> o'rly?
[16:33:53] <SWPLinux> I think so
[16:33:59] <eholmgren> full grown?
[16:34:06] <tomp_> oh, ball mill by default ts = tool.shape[0], i was wondering why when the cmd line didnt specify it
[16:34:08] <eholmgren> or bambis
[16:34:10] <SWPLinux> I mean, if a sparrow can carry a coconut ...
[16:34:45] <eholmgren> our cat drug half of a ham out of the sink
[16:34:49] <eholmgren> so maybe
[16:34:49] <Dallur> SWPLinux: How about if two African swallows carry a coconut together by means of a string between them ?
[16:35:07] <SWPLinux> no. Aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh
[16:35:17] <jepler> tomp_: yep, default is ball. you can specify shape with -b, -V, -v, -e and radius with -r NUMBER
[16:35:59] <tomp_> jepler: yes there's a 'tool crib' to choose from :)
[16:36:06] <lerneaen_hydra> Dallur, I don't knoooooooowww.....
[16:36:30] <Dallur> red,,, no blue !
[16:37:11] <SWPLinux> eholmgren: http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2005/12/28/eagles-and-deer/
[16:37:14] <eholmgren> * eholmgren flings Dallur
[16:39:09] <SWPLinux> hmmm. jepler, is it a bug that the tool makers all use a normalized radius? it seems the depth would be exaggerated
[16:39:47] <SWPLinux> at least, for tools < 1" in diameter
[16:40:05] <jepler> SWPLinux: hm, could be
[16:41:04] <eholmgren> "I’ve seen Ravens pluck the eyes out of lambs. They land on the lambs head and peck out the eyes and as the lamb runs until it can no longer stand, they land on it and start eating it alive."
[16:42:08] <eholmgren> O_o
[16:42:14] <SWPLinux> heh
[16:42:47] <cradek> thanks, intelligent design
[16:42:54] <SWPLinux> heh
[16:43:12] <SWPLinux> mean and nasty design is more like it
[16:43:34] <cradek> "malevolent design"
[16:43:40] <SWPLinux> yeah
[16:44:13] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/gdepth4-cds.png http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/gdepth5-chips.png
[16:44:29] <Dallur> jepler: nice
[16:44:35] <cradek> jepler: those are extremely cool
[16:44:59] <SWPLinux> heh - here I am trying to rotate that chips image ;)
[16:45:06] <SWPLinux> it don't work so good in firefox
[16:45:14] <jepler> there's still some kind of trouble where files that use the tool table don't work
[16:46:11] <skunkwork> That is so neat.
[16:47:16] <jepler> yeah it's hard to go work on what I'm supposed to
[16:47:57] <tomp_> jepler: applause! :)
[16:48:36] <awallin> bah, I can do that in mastercam or surfcam just as easily ;)
[16:50:57] <jepler> * jepler adds the GPL notice and uploads another copy of gdepth.py
[16:51:38] <jepler> awallin: there, now my software has a crucial feature that mastercam and surfcam match (at least, I assume)
[16:51:41] <jepler> er, "lack"
[16:51:49] <jepler> not "match"
[16:51:57] <SWPLinux> they match the lack of the feature
[16:51:59] <awallin> jepler: I see your already in the year 2770! cool.
[16:52:06] <SWPLinux> they match the lack of the featured feature
[16:52:06] <jepler> awallin: oops!
[16:52:18] <tomp_> jepler: minigl is at sourceforge, but where are rs274.interpret gcode rs274.OpenGLTk ? ( new 2.1 trunk user )
[16:52:22] <jepler> I concentrated so hard on getting "7" into the number
[16:52:26] <jepler> tomp_: doubt that's the same minigl
[16:52:33] <SWPLinux> "nearly a milennium ahead of its time"
[16:52:34] <jepler> tomp_: minigl and rs274.xxx are from emc2.1
[16:52:59] <SWPLinux> tomp_: it helps to source scripts/emc-environment
[16:53:12] <tomp_> doh! thanks
[16:54:51] <jepler> if it doesn't accept your .ngc file, try removing/commenting all lines that refer to the tool table (e.g., t1m6).
[16:55:08] <jepler> I'll figure out why later
[16:56:19] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler, yummy!
[16:56:56] <jepler> any of you gotten it to run yet?
[16:57:02] <SWPLinux> yep
[16:57:05] <SWPLinux> not on 3dchips though
[16:57:08] <lerneaen_hydra> is there going to be integration in axis? (click a button, define billet size, tooltype (unless defined in tool table) and hit generate
[16:57:23] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: A menui tem, probably
[16:57:32] <lerneaen_hydra> cool :D
[16:57:39] <jepler> but .. that's still way ahead
[16:58:18] <lerneaen_hydra> if previous projects are anything to go by, my definition of way ahead is a lot farther ahead than yours ;)
[17:06:36] <tomp_> jepler: wow, less than 2 minutes here, wicked!
[17:07:14] <tomp_> (spiral)
[17:08:03] <lerneaen_hydra> tomp_, how long? and what processor?
[17:10:58] <tomp_> <2 min ( only used the tray clock) and a p4 2.6Ghz
[17:11:29] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, quite a modern system
[17:14:33] <anonimasu> lerman: hm
[17:14:47] <lerman> I'm here.
[17:15:20] <anonimasu> Dallur: Looking now
[17:15:42] <anonimasu> Dallur: is that for internal use?
[17:15:56] <anonimasu> Dallur: for toolpath's ?
[17:16:13] <awallin> lerman: anonimasu, did you see jeplers cutting simulation?
[17:16:16] <anonimasu> no
[17:16:20] <awallin> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/gdepth5-chips.png
[17:16:33] <awallin> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/gdepth4-cds.png
[17:16:36] <awallin> and the code
[17:16:38] <anonimasu> jerpler owns us :D
[17:16:39] <awallin> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/gdepth.py
[17:16:44] <anonimasu> nice!
[17:16:51] <lerman> Very nice.
[17:16:52] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler = t3h pwnage
[17:17:18] <anonimasu> yeah :)
[17:17:47] <anonimasu> rs274.gl?
[17:17:52] <anonimasu> jepler: how did you make thoose bindings?
[17:17:54] <tomp_> and the cmd line when at root of emc2 python nc_files/gdepth.py -t .3 -x "-2.1 2.1" -y "-2.1 2.1" -r 200 -o spiral.png nc_files/spiral.ngc
[17:18:01] <lerman> The program is too short. It must be a fake. :-)
[17:18:06] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is looking for something crossplatform
[17:18:55] <anonimasu> haha
[17:20:39] <cradek> * cradek fears the units in gdepth.py
[17:20:48] <anonimasu> hehe
[17:21:20] <cradek> it can't be right unless there are 25.4s sprinkled everywhere
[17:21:40] <lerneaen_hydra> haha
[17:21:45] <anonimasu> :D
[17:21:57] <lerneaen_hydra> are there 25.4's in it?
[17:22:00] <anonimasu> I wonder where he got the opengl stuff from :D
[17:22:37] <anonimasu> opengltk?
[17:22:52] <anonimasu> nice
[17:23:50] <Dallur> anonimasu: What I'm trying to do is to define a geometric object hierarchy which can correctly store any object created by all CAD programs, this way I can parse any type of file (dxf/iges) into this object format, then create optimized cutting paths from this format
[17:24:46] <jepler> anonimasu: I wrote it myself for axis, basically
[17:25:13] <jepler> anonimasu: minigl is all my own. opengltk is a wrapper around ToGL, and opengl widget for Tk
[17:25:44] <awallin> Dallur: 2D toolpaths from a plasma that follow the geometry will be easy, 3D rough/finish for milling is a _bit_ harder
[17:26:12] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu, have I spammed you with www.pungkuk.com yet?
[17:26:18] <lerneaen_hydra> and awallin too for that matter
[17:26:28] <jepler> anonimasu: opengltk is similar to pyopengl's OpenGL.Tk, except I hear that OpenGL.Tk is deprecated and no longer included
[17:26:38] <anonimasu> jepler: that's nice
[17:26:52] <anonimasu> jepler: pyopengl has no way of creating windows
[17:27:06] <anonimasu> except if you download the context package too..
[17:27:06] <jepler> I don't care much about "cross platform", so I don't mind that this runs only on Unix+X11
[17:27:05] <anonimasu> brb..
[17:27:12] <anonimasu> jepler: I do :)
[17:27:37] <anonimasu> if it's possible, the more platforms the better :) imo
[17:27:42] <cradek> yay for the gpl then!
[17:27:47] <Dallur> awallin: I don't think I will do the 3D toolpaths, but I want to try to at least do the file parsing and be able to render the objects, then I will start to worry about the 3d toolpath generation
[17:28:02] <anonimasu> I'll be bacl in a bit
[17:28:04] <anonimasu> having a bath
[17:28:11] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: yeah
[17:28:13] <lerneaen_hydra> GPL FTW!
[17:28:38] <tomp_> jepler: it's 39 sec on 2.6G P4 w 512meg
[17:28:50] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, that's not that bad
[17:31:00] <awallin> Dallur: you probably want to make the geometry definition independent of rendering platoform (OpenGL, vpython, vtk, opencascade) etc. etc. so that it will be most useful
[17:33:21] <Dallur> awallin: yup, by storing only storing the vertices that means that you can render it any way you want :D
[17:34:03] <awallin> Dallur: I would suggest the Relational Geometry we talked about earlier, I will try to dig out the paper...
[17:34:06] <Dallur> awallin: I will need to duplicate some of the vector work already done in vpython but no biggie
[17:35:15] <Dallur> awallin: the only issue I noticed with relational geometry is that it deals with surfaces, which in my mind is a bit silly, surfaces should really only be involved in the rendering process imho
[17:35:53] <awallin> well, before you draw a surface you need to somehow define it
[17:36:52] <Dallur> awallin: any surface can be defined as a set of lines joining the vertices of the polygons, which for toolpath generation is what you want in any case
[17:37:21] <Dallur> awallin: might just be terminology
[17:37:47] <awallin> yes, that's STL, but that's a very inefficient way of storing a parametrized surface (Nurbs etc). Wouldn't it be better to store just the defining points and the formula for the surface
[17:38:07] <awallin> but at some point, when toolpaths are generated an STL representation might be needed
[17:38:47] <Dallur> awallin: it's the lowest common denominator from what I gather, ie. any format can be changed to that format without any loss of information
[17:39:16] <awallin> STL?? surely you loose information in an STL representation. it's just a question of how much
[17:39:15] <Dallur> awallin: and when dealing with isosurfaces you can replace the lines with NURBS curves and get the same result
[17:41:13] <lerneaen_hydra> stl is to raster as nurbs is to vector, perhaps
[17:41:40] <anonimasu> hm
[17:42:36] <Dallur> hmm does STL even handle any splines ?
[17:43:58] <lerneaen_hydra> nope
[17:44:04] <lerneaen_hydra> just triangles
[17:44:14] <lerneaen_hydra> well, the most common implementation
[17:44:30] <lerneaen_hydra> the format technically has support for other shapes, but they're never used
[17:45:59] <Dallur> awallin: what I am talking about is not STL, it supports NURBS curves fully, which means that it supports any type of spline, but rather than grouping them as a surface you group them as a solid
[18:12:57] <eholmgren> picked up a ~3' 19" rack at the surplus store for $15 last night ... woot!
[18:14:17] <eholmgren> I have this urge to fill it with old Sun hardware
[18:14:24] <eholmgren> but that would probably be pointless
[18:29:02] <robin_sz> meep?
[18:29:07] <robin_sz> alex_joni, you there?
[18:32:57] <robin_sz> bought another welder today
[18:33:11] <robin_sz> very VERY nice machine
[18:48:46] <_tarzan_> link
[19:28:03] <Dallur> awallin/anonimasu: I made a small demo with the data-types, I don't know if the python code is all that good but I think it demonstrates how any 3D form can be fitted into a hierarchy and broken down into vertices
[19:38:12] <tomp_> jepler: if i use python nc_files/gdepth.py -t .3 -x "-2.1 2.1" -y "-2.1 2.1" -r 200 -o 3D_Chips.png nc_files/3D_Chips.ngc i get a rect prism, not like your .png (mm vs inch? got G21 in .ngc file)
[19:38:40] <tomp_> and the ngc is fine in axis
[19:40:50] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler, is gdepth.py dependant on EMC or can I run it on my edgy box?
[19:41:33] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: it needs minigl, gocde, and rs274 modules from emc2.1.
[19:41:49] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, the src files from head or compiled?
[19:42:00] <SWPLinux> TRUNK works
[19:42:10] <lerneaen_hydra> trunk?
[19:42:20] <SWPadnos> used to be called HEAD :)
[19:42:35] <lerneaen_hydra> so the newest version of cvs is trunk?
[19:42:41] <lerneaen_hydra> or is trunk the 2.1 split?
[19:42:44] <lerneaen_hydra> (ie testing)
[19:42:55] <SWPadnos> TRUNK is what HEAD used to be
[19:43:10] <jepler> TRUNK is the proper term for what we called HEAD: the most experimental development version
[19:43:11] <lerneaen_hydra> that can still be three things
[19:43:14] <SWPadnos> the reason is that (according to CVS docs), every branch has a HEAD, which is the most recent version on that branch
[19:43:31] <SWPadnos> there is only one TRUNK though
[19:43:38] <jepler> The branch called v2_1_branch is where we are putting the finishing touches on the version that will be 2.1.0
[19:43:47] <jepler> either TRUNK or v2_1_branch should be OK for gdepth
[19:43:56] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, so the 2.1 branch has its own head
[19:44:06] <lerneaen_hydra> and the newest/most unstable one is trunk?
[19:44:09] <SWPadnos> yes - it was a terminology error before
[19:44:18] <lerneaen_hydra> ah, ok
[19:45:59] <lerneaen_hydra> and does it need the src or the compiled versions of those files?
[19:46:12] <jepler> compiled
[19:46:35] <lerneaen_hydra> ah
[19:46:48] <lerneaen_hydra> is there any place to grab them?
[19:47:06] <jepler> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Why_aren_t_there_packages_for_Ubuntu_6_10_Edgy_Eft
[19:47:26] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, do I need a working install?
[19:47:37] <SWPadnos> sim works fine
[19:48:28] <jepler> SWPadnos: on edgy?
[19:48:35] <SWPadnos> not that I've tested
[19:48:44] <jepler> that's what lerneaen_hydra is using
[19:48:56] <SWPadnos> righto
[19:48:58] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah, I feel like using bleeding edge stuff :p
[19:49:06] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra is running XGL too
[19:49:06] <cradek> I'm sure a clueful person could build emc2-sim on edgy or any other modern system
[19:49:14] <SWPadnos> is there any reason to believe that sim will/won't work on edgy?
[19:49:25] <cradek> it will certainly work
[19:49:27] <SWPadnos> (ie, other than "dunno", is there any evidence either way)
[19:49:31] <lerneaen_hydra> there were some dependancy issues with the .dev
[19:49:33] <lerneaen_hydra> *deb
[19:49:46] <lerneaen_hydra> naming conventions and the like
[19:49:53] <cradek> but please don't ask us to help with all of it
[19:49:57] <jepler> some package names were different or the packages were unavailable in edgy
[19:49:58] <SWPadnos> ok, but getting source and compiling should give you a working sim emc2 ...
[19:50:00] <jepler> so the stuff in debian/ is wrong
[19:50:02] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:50:15] <jepler> I forget which package names lerneaen_hydra reported a problem with when he tried to install dapper sim packages
[19:50:20] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I wonder if I tried that when I had an edgy install ...
[19:50:21] <cradek> oh you mean the package?
[19:50:29] <lerneaen_hydra> something with python2.4
[19:50:37] <SWPadnos> edgy uses 2.5, doesn't it?
[19:50:37] <cradek> I thought you meant "can it be compiled" to which the answer is surely yes
[19:50:42] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek, I don't plan to spam all too much ;)
[19:51:06] <SWPadnos> cradek, yeah - that was my (mis)understanding as well
[19:51:14] <tomp_> jepler: i tried 3D_Chips and got an untouched workpiece , yet 3D_Chips ran fine in trunk, any idea?
[19:51:17] <lerneaen_hydra> anyway, this was more of an idle question more than a "help plz"
[19:51:52] <jepler> tomp_: I had to slightly modify chips and cds by removing lines that referred to the tool table. not sure if that's the trouble you're having .
[19:51:53] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek, so don't get all too worried ;)
[19:52:02] <tomp_> k
[19:54:49] <tomp_> jepler: it was a 1 line fix, now, so why does 3D_chips run faster than the spiral ( amazed!)
[19:56:11] <jepler> tomp_: dunno. the runtime will depend on the area, the resolution, the length of the cuts, and the tool size
[20:01:31] <alex_joni> robin_sz: am now
[20:02:00] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler, bigger tool = longer time?
[20:02:13] <lerneaen_hydra> becuase there are more pixels to apple a transform to?
[20:02:13] <jepler> yes
[20:02:18] <jepler> yes
[20:02:45] <awallin> what's the difference between a NET application and a win32 application on windows?
[20:02:59] <alex_joni> different execution machine
[20:03:13] <awallin> is NET slower?
[20:03:25] <alex_joni> not by much afaik
[20:03:36] <lerneaen_hydra> afaik yes it can be, mostly it's about the same
[20:04:46] <robin_sz> hey dude!
[20:05:00] <robin_sz> bought a pulse welder today :)
[20:05:22] <alex_joni> coo.. what flavour?
[20:05:30] <robin_sz> a Lorch
[20:05:38] <alex_joni> oh
[20:05:42] <robin_sz> not exactly well known
[20:05:46] <alex_joni> oh, I know them
[20:05:51] <robin_sz> nor top line
[20:05:54] <alex_joni> not exactly the best rep. :)
[20:06:11] <robin_sz> well, we'd looked at a migatronic
[20:06:21] <alex_joni> oh stop
[20:06:25] <robin_sz> :)
[20:06:25] <alex_joni> you're hurting me :D
[20:06:50] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra hurts alex some more
[20:06:53] <lerneaen_hydra> :p
[20:06:56] <robin_sz> anyway, it puts down nice welds for the money
[20:06:59] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: you don't know how
[20:07:04] <alex_joni> robin_sz: lucky you then
[20:07:12] <robin_sz> you dont rate them?
[20:07:17] <lerneaen_hydra> fortunately I've never used one
[20:07:48] <robin_sz> I would have bought a Kemppi but that was lots more $$$
[20:08:30] <alex_joni> kemppi starts to sound like an ok machine
[20:08:43] <alex_joni> maybe esab, lincoln, fronius or cloos :)
[20:08:52] <alex_joni> but I'm biased :D
[20:09:04] <robin_sz> fronius we looked at a while ago ... very compley control
[20:09:22] <alex_joni> how much k was this?
[20:09:30] <robin_sz> sub 3K
[20:10:20] <alex_joni> pund?
[20:10:23] <alex_joni> pound?
[20:10:25] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[20:10:31] <lerneaen_hydra> ack.
[20:10:37] <robin_sz> 4kg euro
[20:10:41] <lerneaen_hydra> 50k sek for a crappy mig welder?
[20:10:45] <robin_sz> 4k5 euro
[20:10:55] <lerneaen_hydra> haha 4k5 ^^
[20:11:05] <lerneaen_hydra> resistor-esque
[20:11:06] <alex_joni> robin_sz: prolly 1-2k more for the other brands
[20:11:06] <robin_sz> lerneaen_hydra, thats not a lot for a pulse mig
[20:11:18] <lerneaen_hydra> pulse mig, what are they based on?
[20:11:24] <alex_joni> robin_sz: why go new ? :D
[20:12:01] <robin_sz> alex_joni, not a lot of good quality used machines out there right now ...
[20:12:13] <alex_joni> hmm.. I know of a particular one :)
[20:12:19] <robin_sz> lerneaen_hydra, you are familair with mig welding?
[20:12:23] <alex_joni> not sure if there are any in england though
[20:12:26] <lerneaen_hydra> standard mig sure
[20:12:47] <robin_sz> and yo uknow about the 3 basic trasnfer methods?
[20:13:20] <robin_sz> you probably only know dip transfer, where the wire dips into the weld pool
[20:13:26] <alex_joni> robin_sz: give the guys from Wolverhampton a call
[20:13:34] <robin_sz> the classic "buzzing bees" sound
[20:13:44] <lerneaen_hydra> robin_sz, yeah, only dip
[20:13:46] <robin_sz> alex_joni, the fronius people?
[20:13:51] <alex_joni> nope, cloos
[20:13:54] <alex_joni> ask for PATS
[20:14:00] <lerneaen_hydra> and then things fuck up and you get spatter
[20:14:02] <lerneaen_hydra> too high voltage say
[20:14:06] <alex_joni> they might have some used ones
[20:14:07] <robin_sz> lerneaen_hydra, well, you know when you wind it up a bit more, you get a lot of spatter?
[20:14:06] <lerneaen_hydra> or too far away
[20:14:15] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[20:14:23] <alex_joni> PATS is 7+ years old, but it wasn't matched so far..
[20:14:25] <robin_sz> right .. well, if you turn it up even further, say to 350 amps?
[20:14:26] <alex_joni> GREAT machine
[20:14:35] <lerneaen_hydra> damn....
[20:14:44] <lerneaen_hydra> how's it behave then?
[20:14:50] <robin_sz> smoooooth
[20:14:52] <alex_joni> spray arc
[20:14:54] <robin_sz> no spatter
[20:15:02] <lerneaen_hydra> no spatter?
[20:15:04] <robin_sz> none
[20:15:07] <alex_joni> now switch to pulsed, and you get that over the entire domain :D
[20:15:14] <lerneaen_hydra> does the magnetic field guide it correctly?
[20:15:14] <robin_sz> yeah
[20:15:16] <alex_joni> more or less
[20:15:36] <robin_sz> so basically, pulse mig does 40 amps background current
[20:15:40] <robin_sz> and then 600A spray
[20:15:57] <robin_sz> at about 100hz
[20:16:04] <robin_sz> with a varyign duty cycle
[20:16:21] <lerneaen_hydra> AC or just varying DC?
[20:16:25] <robin_sz> the avergae current is still 130A or whatever yo unormally use
[20:16:33] <robin_sz> but its in pulses
[20:16:37] <alex_joni> varying DC
[20:16:39] <robin_sz> varying DC
[20:16:42] <lerneaen_hydra> right
[20:16:46] <robin_sz> the result is amazing
[20:16:49] <alex_joni> well.. there is AC now
[20:16:55] <lerneaen_hydra> AC would fuck things up badly, right?
[20:16:56] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[20:16:57] <robin_sz> I was stunned I have to say
[20:16:57] <alex_joni> but robin_sz doesn't have the bucks :D
[20:17:02] <alex_joni> robin_sz: :P
[20:17:07] <robin_sz> alex_joni, true enough
[20:17:10] <alex_joni> 14k+ EUR
[20:17:18] <robin_sz> 3K for a welder was a lot
[20:17:25] <robin_sz> never mind more
[20:17:25] <Dallur> hmm isn't pulse mig supposed to be able to weld aluminium to galv. steel ?
[20:17:31] <robin_sz> yep
[20:17:47] <robin_sz> thats mig brazing though
[20:17:53] <robin_sz> special silicon copper wire
[20:18:32] <robin_sz> alex_joni, what do you reckon a cloos PATS comes out at? 6K euro?
[20:18:33] <lerneaen_hydra> O_o
[20:18:40] <alex_joni> robin_sz: certainly less
[20:18:41] <lerneaen_hydra> alu to galv steel?
[20:18:45] <robin_sz> coo
[20:18:54] <lerneaen_hydra> so like a jigsaw type connection between the two?
[20:18:57] <alex_joni> it hasn't been produced for 8 years?
[20:19:02] <alex_joni> something like that :D
[20:19:11] <Dallur> I saw a sample from audi/VW factories which looked pretty sweet :D
[20:19:13] <alex_joni> older machine.. but it works like a dream
[20:19:43] <alex_joni> robin_sz: 603 PATS
[20:20:35] <alex_joni> built as a freakin' tank
[20:20:41] <robin_sz> heh
[20:20:47] <alex_joni> 2 water pumps (one for torch, one for electronics)
[20:20:56] <robin_sz> coo
[20:21:00] <lerneaen_hydra> robin_sz, what were the other two types of mig welding?
[20:21:03] <alex_joni> 230 kg+
[20:21:22] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: he told about all 3
[20:21:23] <robin_sz> lerneaen_hydra, that was them ... dip, globular transfer and spray
[20:21:32] <alex_joni> dip, intermediary and spray
[20:21:44] <alex_joni> dip is sometimes refered to as short-circuit arc or similar
[20:21:46] <robin_sz> theres the thing lincoln try and get people to believe in too
[20:21:46] <lerneaen_hydra> so globular is several mm?
[20:22:03] <alex_joni> STT?
[20:22:01] <lerneaen_hydra> and spray is sub mm?
[20:22:10] <robin_sz> alex_joni, yeah
[20:22:12] <robin_sz> mmm
[20:22:18] <alex_joni> robin_sz: there is also CP (Cold process) now
[20:22:24] <alex_joni> but that's AC for thin metals
[20:22:29] <robin_sz> what do you mean sub mm?
[20:22:35] <alex_joni> the 14k I mentioned before
[20:22:46] <lerneaen_hydra> as in the particles are smaller than a mm or so in diamter
[20:22:57] <robin_sz> oh, much much smaller
[20:23:01] <lerneaen_hydra> or what is "spray"? gaseus metal?
[20:23:06] <lerneaen_hydra> µm sized?
[20:23:07] <robin_sz> spray must be almost a vapour
[20:23:15] <lerneaen_hydra> ah, ok
[20:23:20] <robin_sz> globular is just messy ;)
[20:23:19] <alex_joni> tiny droplets
[20:23:25] <alex_joni> almost flowing
[20:23:31] <robin_sz> lerneaen_hydra, do you have a mig?
[20:24:18] <lerneaen_hydra> my dad does
[20:24:24] <robin_sz> if its capable of 300A + try it someday
[20:24:38] <robin_sz> turn the voltage up to about 36v
[20:24:51] <lerneaen_hydra> I don't recall the max current
[20:24:56] <robin_sz> and the wire feed 3/4 of the way to full speed
[20:25:09] <robin_sz> using say a 0.8mm wire
[20:25:16] <robin_sz> it just goes silent ...
[20:25:21] <robin_sz> 'pssssssssssss'
[20:25:39] <robin_sz> but do it on thick metal :)
[20:25:42] <skunkwork> did that when we make our boiler. just painted the wire on.
[20:25:57] <lerneaen_hydra> robin_sz, this is steel you're talking about, right?
[20:26:01] <robin_sz> right
[20:27:14] <robin_sz> alex_joni, the welders loved it
[20:27:32] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, I only have alu gas ATM
[20:27:41] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[20:28:02] <robin_sz> if you have a welder powerful enough for alu, it shoudl spray OK
[20:28:11] <lerneaen_hydra> ok
[20:28:20] <robin_sz> quite fascinating to see really
[20:28:51] <lerneaen_hydra> it's a bit special, as the welding nozzle has the spool on the.. err.. thing you hold, rather than in the PSU
[20:29:21] <robin_sz> to put it in perpective, a modern mig pulse welder compared to a traditional mig, is like comparing plasma to laser ...
[20:29:25] <robin_sz> yes they both cut metal ...
[20:29:41] <lerneaen_hydra> so pulse FTW?
[20:29:45] <lerneaen_hydra> that much better?
[20:33:13] <robin_sz> yeah
[20:33:16] <robin_sz> amazing ...
[20:34:05] <robin_sz> two 5mm plates ... 8mm fillett weld, perfectly flat, at 45 degrees, no spatter, smooth smooth surface
[20:34:14] <alex_joni> robin_sz: core for a salesman job?
[20:34:18] <robin_sz> nah :)
[20:34:21] <alex_joni> care
[20:34:25] <alex_joni> :-P
[20:34:36] <lerneaen_hydra> haha
[20:34:42] <robin_sz> pulse welders are not common around here at all
[20:34:56] <robin_sz> I'd played with a fronius, but it was hard to use
[20:35:14] <robin_sz> this had one dial for material thickness, dial it in, weld.
[20:35:22] <jepler> SWPadnos: yes, the tool shapes were pretty screwed up
[20:36:04] <SWPadnos> ok. I wasn't sure if I had missed something there
[20:41:44] <anonimasu> robin_sz: also, you cant compare the price of a plasma to the price of a laser.
[20:41:45] <anonimasu> :D
[20:43:58] <anonimasu> awallin: a .net application requires the framework
[20:44:03] <anonimasu> awallin: good framework btw
[20:44:11] <anonimasu> the only good thing microcrap has done.
[20:49:15] <robin_sz> anonimasu, well, true, but in terms of results, thats the difference between standard and pulse mig .... looking at them now, standard mig is just ,..well, faulty!
[20:50:07] <anonimasu> :)
[20:50:16] <awallin> anonimasu: I'm looking at c++ compilers. Found wxdsgn.sourceforge.net for winXP, uses wxwidgets for GUI, so should cross compile under linux also
[20:50:41] <awallin> anonimasu: just in case I actually get something useful done and others would want to use it
[20:51:42] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:51:55] <anonimasu> :)
[20:52:01] <alex_joni> awallin: what are you working on?
[20:52:21] <ds3> quick terminology question, what are the '%' at the beginning and end '%' called?
[20:52:44] <alex_joni> ds3: start/begin of tape ?
[20:52:48] <alex_joni> start/end
[20:53:03] <awallin> alex_joni: nothing much yet, but I'm interested in the cutting simulation, parametric CAD modeler, and CAM algorithms. So it would be nice to have an OpenGL+GUI environment in which to try out different things
[20:53:34] <ds3> thanks, alex_joni
[20:53:33] <alex_joni> ic
[20:53:46] <alex_joni> ds3: they are historical reminescents
[20:53:53] <awallin> alex_joni: Oh, and since I've spammed the freesteel blog with my comments, Julian T promised to release some CAM algorithms GPL which would be nice to try out
[20:53:54] <alex_joni> from back when programs were on tape or paper I think
[20:54:02] <alex_joni> awallin: coo
[20:54:04] <ds3> *nod
[20:54:04] <ds3> *
[20:54:36] <anonimasu> hehe
[20:54:37] <anonimasu> :D
[20:55:14] <jepler> now with multiple tools based on g-code comments: gdepth7-pcb-multitool.png red shows where you've cut all the way to the "bottom" of the stock.
[20:58:21] <jepler> e.g., to select a .1" ball-end: (TOOL,b,.1)
[20:59:22] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin, ooh, nice
[20:59:45] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler, tsk tsk, what kind of units are you using anyway... ;)
[20:59:46] <alex_joni> jeff: can you paste a full link to that?
[21:01:09] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/gdepth7-pcb-multitool.png
[21:01:25] <alex_joni> thanks
[21:01:45] <alex_joni> jepler: sweet
[21:02:01] <cradek> jepler: that is very cool
[21:02:19] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler, ooh, nice :D
[21:02:24] <lerneaen_hydra> yummy!
[21:03:32] <SWPadnos> oh - yay! I see that version also allows movements that are "off the grid"
[21:03:49] <SWPadnos> or out of bounds, I guess you could say
[21:04:07] <robin_sz> * robin_sz points to a very tired kangaroo
[21:12:36] <alex_joni> get your boats
[21:12:38] <lerneaen_hydra> random question: how's EMC under KDE/xfce/fluxbox/blackbox ?
[21:12:49] <cradek> lerneaen_hydra: doesn't matter
[21:12:54] <lerneaen_hydra> ah, nice
[21:13:01] <lerneaen_hydra> so no gnome calls or anything?
[21:13:03] <cradek> lerneaen_hydra: the only thing you might be missing is the menu entry
[21:13:08] <alex_joni> only that on xfce you probably don't get a menu entry automatically
[21:13:10] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah, that's easy to add though
[21:13:16] <cradek> sure
[21:13:24] <lerneaen_hydra> nice, one less thing to worry about
[21:14:00] <alex_joni> KDE might already work
[21:14:08] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/demo_mazak/demo_mazak.ini: beautify configs as on the 2.1 branch
[21:14:10] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/demo_sim_cl/demo_sim_cl.ini: beautify configs as on the 2.1 branch
[21:14:10] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/etch-servo/etch.ini: beautify configs as on the 2.1 branch
[21:14:11] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/lathe-pluto/lathe-pluto.ini: beautify configs as on the 2.1 branch
[21:14:11] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/m5i20/m5i20.ini: beautify configs as on the 2.1 branch
[21:14:12] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/demo_step_cl/demo_step_cl.ini: beautify configs as on the 2.1 branch
[21:14:20] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/hexapod-sim/ (README core_sim_6.hal minitetra.ini): beautify configs as on the 2.1 branch
[21:14:23] <lerneaen_hydra> are you all running gnome?
[21:14:23] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/dallur-thc/ (README dallur-advanced.ini): beautify configs as on the 2.1 branch
[21:14:26] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/motenc/motenc.ini: beautify configs as on the 2.1 branch
[21:14:28] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: yeah
[21:14:30] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/nist-lathe/inch.ini: beautify configs as on the 2.1 branch
[21:14:31] <jepler> I use icewm and always launch emc from the commandline
[21:14:35] <lerneaen_hydra> ah
[21:14:36] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/max/max.ini: beautify configs as on the 2.1 branch
[21:14:38] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/sim/ (8 files): beautify configs as on the 2.1 branch
[21:14:40] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/halui_halvcp/ (README halui.ini): beautify configs as on the 2.1 branch
[21:14:43] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, nice
[21:14:43] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/ppmc/ppmc.ini: beautify configs as on the 2.1 branch
[21:14:45] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/stepper-xyza/inch.ini: beautify configs as on the 2.1 branch
[21:14:49] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/univpwm/univpwm.ini: beautify configs as on the 2.1 branch
[21:14:49] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/univstep/univstep.ini: beautify configs as on the 2.1 branch
[21:14:51] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/stg/stg.ini: beautify configs as on the 2.1 branch
[21:14:53] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/vti/vti.ini: beautify configs as on the 2.1 branch
[21:14:58] <lerneaen_hydra> by commandline do you mean tty1 or a "terminal"?
[21:14:59] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/stepper/ (README sim_inch.ini stepper_inch.ini stepper_mm.ini): beautify configs as on the 2.1 branch
[21:15:01] <lerneaen_hydra> aah a flood!
[21:15:05] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra is swept awaaayy....
[21:15:19] <jepler> rxvt-unicode to be specific
[21:15:43] <SWPLinux> lerneaen_hydra: a terminal within X, not a text console
[21:15:49] <lerneaen_hydra> ok, right
[21:18:06] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/m5i20/m5i20_io.hal: remove references to spindle-incr-speed and spindle-decr-speed
[21:18:07] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/motenc/motenc_io.hal: remove references to spindle-incr-speed and spindle-decr-speed
[21:18:08] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/ppmc/ppmc_io.hal: remove references to spindle-incr-speed and spindle-decr-speed
[21:22:11] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/stg/stg_io.hal: remove references to spindle-incr-speed and spindle-decr-speed
[21:22:21] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/univpwm/univpwm_io.hal: remove references to spindle-incr-speed and spindle-decr-speed
[21:22:21] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/univstep/univstep_io.hal: remove references to spindle-incr-speed and spindle-decr-speed
[21:24:23] <ds3> yipppeeeeee skeleton G code translator done
[21:27:52] <SWPadnos> who wants to machine skeletons?
[21:28:28] <alex_joni> that's so morbid
[21:35:56] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:37:18] <K`zan> Got my old acadlt installed on the 32 bit box, for some reason I can't get acad13 to install (yet), does anyone know if there are .DWG to gcode converters out there?
[21:38:09] <SWPadnos> none I know of in the $affordable range (I think you can only do 2d or 2.5d dxf for $cheap)
[21:38:19] <SWPadnos> or $free
[21:38:24] <anonimasu> there are
[21:38:30] <anonimasu> I found some links earlier today
[21:38:35] <anonimasu> if you look at the log..
[21:38:38] <anonimasu> logger_emc: bookmark
[21:38:38] <anonimasu> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-01-22.txt
[21:38:49] <anonimasu> I have the url at the work laptop
[21:39:20] <SWPadnos> ah - gcam
[21:39:26] <K`zan> NP, not like there is a rush going on here :). I may figure out what I am doing wrong getting acad13 installed...
[21:39:33] <alex_joni> I found a free one earlier
[21:39:35] <K`zan> Tanks:-)!
[21:39:37] <alex_joni> dwg2dxf or something like that
[21:39:48] <alex_joni> worked ok for me
[21:40:23] <anonimasu> I found some gnu cam stuff..
[21:40:53] <SWPadnos> http://gcam.js.cx/index.php/Main_Page
[21:40:56] <SWPadnos> that one?
[21:41:09] <anonimasu> no, I found a whole page with a list of like 10
[21:41:27] <SWPadnos> oh - I think I know the page you're talking about
[21:41:33] <SWPadnos> but I don't know where it is :)
[21:41:38] <anonimasu> had cad programs lined up too
[21:41:55] <SWPadnos> there's one with all sorts of free CAD/CAM programs - not just mechanical but electrical and PCB as well
[21:42:06] <anonimasu> yep
[21:42:20] <cradek> anyone who tries to read DWG files directly is being silly. DXF is the portable openly documented format to use when moving drawings between applications
[21:42:21] <K`zan> Found it, thanks!
[21:42:45] <K`zan> If one has something that puts out DXF, which I may or may not have, just covering the bases...
[21:46:29] <anonimasu> alex_joni: did you need a drawing of a machine?
[21:47:03] <lerneaen_hydra> oops
[21:47:21] <K`zan> :-)
[21:47:45] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: wb
[21:48:03] <lerneaen_hydra> thx
[21:50:19] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/vti/vti_io.hal: remove references to spindle-incr-speed and spindle-decr-speed
[21:50:32] <alex_joni> oh my.. that took quite a bit to appear
[21:50:41] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:51:13] <anonimasu> alex_joni: did you see my question?
[21:51:29] <alex_joni> yeah, but didn't get it :D
[21:51:47] <anonimasu> I thought you were looking for a model/drawing of a mill
[21:51:53] <alex_joni> nope
[21:52:03] <anonimasu> ok
[21:58:39] <Martin_Lundstrom> Hello folks
[21:59:10] <Martin_Lundstrom> anyone know where to get one of these milling heads? http://www.macromould.se/images/frasmaskiner_swedenpurappl.jpg
[22:00:20] <anonimasu> a 5 axis head?
[22:00:33] <anonimasu> Martin_Lundstrom: mind if I ask you how much you want to spend?
[22:00:33] <lerneaen_hydra> ooh, it's chinamill!
[22:00:35] <lerneaen_hydra> 'lo
[22:00:51] <Martin_Lundstrom> http://www.macromould.se/images/batbranchen_friggofraspulpet.jpg
[22:01:04] <Martin_Lundstrom> anonimasu, too much ;)
[22:01:13] <anonimasu> Martin_Lundstrom: 80k usd?
[22:01:14] <lerneaen_hydra> aaagh
[22:01:16] <lerneaen_hydra> very pricy
[22:01:20] <Martin_Lundstrom> yep, chinamill
[22:01:52] <Martin_Lundstrom> anonimasu, you know somebody who makes that stuff?
[22:02:02] <anonimasu> ofcourse you can always make your own.
[22:02:14] <anonimasu> yeah, but I cant find the link right now
[22:02:43] <Martin_Lundstrom> I would love to have a look at it
[22:03:01] <anonimasu> if this is a router it's possible that you can build one pretty easily
[22:03:14] <Martin_Lundstrom> lerneaen_hydra, how is your studying coming along?
[22:03:25] <lerneaen_hydra> surviving ;)
[22:03:29] <Martin_Lundstrom> :)
[22:03:41] <Martin_Lundstrom> anonimasu, you think so?
[22:03:43] <lerneaen_hydra> nah, it's going quite well actually
[22:03:43] <anonimasu> Martin_Lundstrom: yeah
[22:04:20] <Martin_Lundstrom> anonimasu, do you have any good ideas for the A and B axis?
[22:04:23] <SWPLinux> Martin_Lundstrom: are you thinking of Rab Gordon? http://www.rainnea.com/cnc_machinery.htm
[22:04:27] <Martin_Lundstrom> snail gears?
[22:04:51] <Martin_Lundstrom> SWPadnos, not at the moment
[22:04:54] <anonimasu> Martin_Lundstrom: yeah,
[22:04:56] <anonimasu> something like it
[22:05:04] <anonimasu> I saw a design at cnczone that looked nice
[22:05:12] <anonimasu> but it was complex..
[22:05:15] <SWPLinux> more specifically this: http://www.rainnea.com/cnc_5axis.htm
[22:05:17] <Martin_Lundstrom> seemes alot of design work, or?
[22:05:24] <anonimasu> if it's a router you dont need the drive to go through the head
[22:05:31] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/emc2.files.in: install help files to different location (-/help/ from the path), that's where configure expects them
[22:05:36] <anonimasu> lots of machining
[22:05:41] <SWPLinux> there are others using two satellite positioners to get the rotary axes
[22:06:11] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/Makefile: install help files to different location (-/help/ from the path), that's where configure expects them
[22:06:29] <Martin_Lundstrom> wow, the rainea stuff is neat!
[22:06:55] <anonimasu> ye
[22:06:56] <anonimasu> p
[22:07:26] <SWPLinux> yep. he also has software called the CNC Toolkit, which is (at this point) free
[22:07:27] <Martin_Lundstrom> where to get those sirveling things?
[22:07:35] <SWPLinux> it generates 5 axis toolpaths from GMax models
[22:07:41] <SWPLinux> eBay
[22:07:47] <Martin_Lundstrom> I tried the software
[22:08:16] <SWPLinux> I never got it to work right ...
[22:08:20] <Martin_Lundstrom> hmm what shall i search for in ebay, any keywords?
[22:08:21] <anonimasu> the rainnea design is nice.
[22:08:21] <SWPLinux> but that was GMax, not the toolkit
[22:08:38] <Martin_Lundstrom> it works ok
[22:08:42] <anonimasu> it's a cheap design..
[22:08:41] <anonimasu> :)
[22:08:57] <tomp_> Martin_Lundstrom: head for 5 axis machine http://www.doughtydrive.com/
[22:09:15] <Martin_Lundstrom> but there is alot of handson work, too much for some toolpaths, I think
[22:09:33] <Martin_Lundstrom> cool tomp_
[22:09:55] <anonimasu> NICE
[22:10:29] <Martin_Lundstrom> tomp_, Is that arm sterdy?
[22:10:43] <K`zan> Hmmm, GMAX comes with m$flight sim 2004 (fs9) IIRC.
[22:11:00] <K`zan> Got it installed (but never used someplace).
[22:11:12] <K`zan> Got it installed (but never used) someplace.
[22:11:51] <A-L-P-H-A> heh. http://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/superbowl07/view_ioy.asp?se=%2B&app%5Fhdr=99
[22:12:15] <Martin_Lundstrom> the doughtydrive seem to be directdriven from steppers...
[22:13:27] <tomp_> Martin_Lundstrom: dunno, all things have some limit
[22:13:46] <anonimasu> Martin_Lundstrom: depends on what you need
[22:13:47] <lerneaen_hydra> it seems easier for a smaller mill for the spindle to be fixed and the workpeice to moce
[22:13:49] <lerneaen_hydra> *move
[22:13:58] <Martin_Lundstrom> yep, this is why Im fond of snail gears, no limit
[22:14:08] <Martin_Lundstrom> only slow
[22:14:10] <lerneaen_hydra> like the cradle/rotating table config
[22:14:23] <anonimasu> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1304521895942190362
[22:14:24] <anonimasu> hehe
[22:14:32] <anonimasu> bastards.
[22:14:33] <tomp_> i'd beef it up with some gussets, that upper plate is a bit thin
[22:14:46] <Martin_Lundstrom> lerneaen_hydra, in this case i can not use that
[22:15:12] <anonimasu> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-923619711177709820&q=5-axis&hl=en
[22:15:20] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, too large workpiece?
[22:15:27] <anonimasu> argh
[22:15:36] <anonimasu> omfg.
[22:15:40] <lerneaen_hydra> argh
[22:15:51] <lerneaen_hydra> they sure run the carbide cutter hard
[22:15:54] <anonimasu> yeah
[22:15:55] <Martin_Lundstrom> lerneaen_hydra, yes
[22:16:00] <alex_joni> got your boats?
[22:16:16] <Martin_Lundstrom> alex_joni, ?
[22:16:20] <anonimasu> I wonder what they are making
[22:16:23] <alex_joni> flood coming up
[22:16:39] <lerneaen_hydra> what's with the pecking action when roughing?
[22:16:46] <Martin_Lundstrom> I have a rubbermadrass ;)
[22:17:16] <anonimasu> they do hsm loops at the end :D
[22:17:35] <lerneaen_hydra> aaaagh
[22:17:47] <lerneaen_hydra> 5-axis is pron dammit
[22:17:53] <anonimasu> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2565514988992667488&q=5-axis&hl=en
[22:18:02] <anonimasu> damn.
[22:19:08] <lerneaen_hydra> what's with the varying rpm?
[22:19:10] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[22:19:13] <lerneaen_hydra> that's the servos
[22:19:22] <lerneaen_hydra> noise, must be some gearing
[22:19:26] <lerneaen_hydra> *noisy
[22:19:38] <anonimasu> at which movie?
[22:19:44] <lerneaen_hydra> the last one
[22:20:04] <anonimasu> ah..
[22:20:12] <Martin_Lundstrom> I think the rainnea 5 axis construction is really nice
[22:20:19] <Martin_Lundstrom> anyone agree?
[22:20:24] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/ppmc/ppmc_io.hal: remove references to spindle-incr-speed and spindle-decr-speed
[22:20:27] <anonimasu> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8267565192144365360&q=5-axis&hl=en
[22:20:30] <anonimasu> toolchanges ;)
[22:20:30] <lerneaen_hydra> rainnea?
[22:20:35] <anonimasu> and threadmilling
[22:20:45] <Martin_Lundstrom> lerneaen_hydra, http://www.rainnea.com/cnc_5axis.htm
[22:21:09] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: look at the end
[22:21:17] <lerneaen_hydra> looks quite simple to implement
[22:21:21] <anonimasu> 2:46
[22:21:32] <anonimasu> or so :)
[22:21:38] <Martin_Lundstrom> lerneaen_hydra, but where to get the pieces?
[22:21:39] <anonimasu> impressive
[22:21:45] <anonimasu> Martin_Lundstrom: make them?
[22:21:53] <lerneaen_hydra> Martin_Lundstrom; yeah :/
[22:21:59] <anonimasu> that's probably it
[22:22:02] <Martin_Lundstrom> anonimasu, You want to help me?
[22:22:10] <anonimasu> Martin_Lundstrom: no
[22:22:17] <Martin_Lundstrom> lerneaen_hydra, you?
[22:22:21] <anonimasu> Martin_Lundstrom: preoccupied with work stuff.
[22:22:36] <Martin_Lundstrom> anonimasu, no probs ;)
[22:22:50] <lerneaen_hydra> Martin_Lundstrom; with what?
[22:22:54] <Martin_Lundstrom> :)
[22:23:00] <lerneaen_hydra> the 5-axis thing?
[22:23:07] <lerneaen_hydra> I'm going to bed soon :/
[22:23:11] <anonimasu> worm gears and stuff should be easy to find
[22:23:11] <Martin_Lundstrom> can you save my soul?
[22:23:23] <anonimasu> haha
[22:23:24] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra saves Martin_Lundstrom's soul
[22:23:27] <lerneaen_hydra> anything else?
[22:23:56] <anonimasu> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6442965485163123253&q=5-axis&hl=en
[22:24:07] <anonimasu> :D
[22:24:11] <Martin_Lundstrom> worldpease?
[22:24:14] <lerneaen_hydra> Martin_Lundstrom; seriously though
[22:24:19] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[22:24:24] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra makes world peace
[22:24:28] <Martin_Lundstrom> :)
[22:24:34] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: look at that machine
[22:24:39] <lerneaen_hydra> I am.
[22:24:47] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is amazed
[22:24:48] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra wantsss it!
[22:24:49] <Martin_Lundstrom> lerneaen_hydra, are you interested?
[22:24:52] <lerneaen_hydra> AAAH!
[22:24:57] <lerneaen_hydra> lathe too!
[22:25:26] <lerneaen_hydra> !!!!
[22:25:27] <alex_joni> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8267565192144365360&q=5-axis&hl=en
[22:25:32] <alex_joni> look ma.. no chips
[22:25:37] <Martin_Lundstrom> lerneaen_hydra, I want to make the BC axis part
[22:25:43] <lerneaen_hydra> did you see how fast it drilled the holes!?!
[22:26:11] <anonimasu_get> anonimasu_get is now known as anonimasu_
[22:26:13] <anonimasu_> hm..
[22:26:12] <lerneaen_hydra> Martin_Lundstrom; oh, hmm
[22:26:14] <anonimasu_> my other client died.
[22:26:18] <anonimasu_> what did I miss?
[22:26:19] <lerneaen_hydra> :(
[22:26:24] <anonimasu_> logger_emc: bookmark
[22:26:24] <anonimasu_> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-01-22.txt
[22:26:31] <tomp_> the workpiece changer/part inspector by Festo is neat http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3434713554178934645&q=5-axis&hl=en (turn DOWN the volume)
[22:26:55] <anonimasu_> Martin_Lundstrom: are you swedish?
[22:27:23] <alex_joni> haha: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4007016107763801953&q=5-axis&hl=en
[22:27:51] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu_; Martin_Lundstrom = chinamill :D
[22:28:05] <anonimasu_> I cant remember where he's from :D
[22:28:12] <lerneaen_hydra> borkland
[22:28:18] <anonimasu_> ah
[22:28:19] <anonimasu_> nice
[22:28:21] <Martin_Lundstrom> anonimasu, yes, I used to live there
[22:28:29] <anonimasu_> ok, not now?
[22:28:34] <Martin_Lundstrom> Now I live in Nice
[22:28:37] <Martin_Lundstrom> :)
[22:28:41] <anonimasu_> ok
[22:28:51] <alex_joni> nice?
[22:28:55] <anonimasu_> that's too bad, it's always nice with a userbase in the same country
[22:28:57] <anonimasu_> niece :D
[22:28:57] <alex_joni> how nice?
[22:29:05] <alex_joni> anonimasu_: I know :D
[22:29:12] <anonimasu_> alex_joni: move here
[22:29:19] <Martin_Lundstrom> :)
[22:29:35] <alex_joni> anonimasu_: sweden?
[22:29:35] <anonimasu_> yeah
[22:29:44] <alex_joni> 1 / year is enough for me :)
[22:29:54] <Martin_Lundstrom> lerneaen_hydra, Are you interested in helping out with a BC axis milling head?
[22:30:30] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[22:30:32] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm
[22:30:41] <anonimasu_> alex_joni: aw, comon it's nice with the new goverment and all..
[22:30:46] <Martin_Lundstrom> temtinh right?
[22:30:47] <anonimasu_> *chuckles*
[22:30:57] <Martin_Lundstrom> tempting
[22:30:57] <alex_joni> too cold for me :D
[22:31:02] <anonimasu_> oh..
[22:31:03] <anonimasu_> it's just -22c
[22:31:05] <anonimasu_> outside right now
[22:31:07] <alex_joni> lol
[22:31:13] <lerneaen_hydra> If I ever make a 5-axis mill it would probably be the cradle/rotating thingy type
[22:31:17] <alex_joni> it was +9 here today
[22:31:19] <lerneaen_hydra> hey, -10 here
[22:31:19] <anonimasu_> me too
[22:31:19] <lerneaen_hydra> not bad
[22:31:26] <lerneaen_hydra> it was +10 yesterday
[22:31:34] <alex_joni> -8 for the weekend though
[22:31:40] <anonimasu_> rotating the spindle is hard..
[22:31:49] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: go puma :D
[22:31:53] <lerneaen_hydra> huh?
[22:31:55] <anonimasu_> heh
[22:32:00] <alex_joni> bot
[22:32:04] <anonimasu_> lerneaen_hydra: a cheap robot
[22:32:12] <anonimasu_> I found a ASEA for 2000eur :D
[22:32:12] <alex_joni> puma-typed
[22:32:12] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[22:32:17] <alex_joni> he needs force for milling
[22:32:19] <lerneaen_hydra> so the robot is the XYZAB table?
[22:32:25] <alex_joni> 100kg payload min. :D
[22:32:34] <lerneaen_hydra> O_O
[22:32:37] <lerneaen_hydra> not cheap
[22:32:41] <anonimasu_> LOL
[22:32:47] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: no, just stick a spindle on it's tip
[22:32:51] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: way cheap
[22:32:55] <lerneaen_hydra> I'm hoping to keep my 3-axis mill + retrofit under 20k SEK
[22:32:56] <alex_joni> a new one is 80k :D
[22:33:03] <anonimasu_> err abb..
[22:33:06] <anonimasu_> http://www.blocket.se/vi/10617921.htm?ca=1_12_s
[22:33:07] <lerneaen_hydra> ie 2k eur
[22:33:12] <alex_joni> anonimasu_: that new :D
[22:33:23] <lerneaen_hydra> the mill is 1.3k€
[22:33:30] <alex_joni> anonimasu_: it's asea all right
[22:33:39] <anonimasu_> asea.. it was :D
[22:33:44] <alex_joni> before ABB was founded :D
[22:33:48] <lerneaen_hydra> the stability is probably not good enough though
[22:33:50] <alex_joni> so.. not the newest :D
[22:33:57] <anonimasu_> I'd still like it
[22:34:12] <lerneaen_hydra> heh +-0.2mm
[22:34:30] <alex_joni> fairly small
[22:34:42] <alex_joni> 6kg payload
[22:34:44] <anonimasu_> http://www.blocket.se/vi/10467882.htm?ca=1_12_s
[22:34:46] <anonimasu_> how about that?
[22:35:07] <alex_joni> ew, no
[22:35:16] <alex_joni> the first one is better
[22:35:20] <anonimasu_> http://www.blocket.se/vi/10453648.htm?ca=1_12_s
[22:35:38] <anonimasu_> wtf..
[22:35:43] <anonimasu_> crap payloads
[22:35:53] <alex_joni> 75kg is not crap
[22:36:02] <Martin_Lundstrom> Anyone, what keywords to use to search for the swivel thing in http://www.rainnea.com/cnc_5axis.htm
[22:36:18] <anonimasu_> the first one?
[22:36:23] <anonimasu_> where did you find 75kg?
[22:36:42] <alex_joni> the last one
[22:36:48] <anonimasu_> ah
[22:36:50] <anonimasu_> yeah..
[22:36:53] <alex_joni> first one is 6kg which is about right for that size
[22:36:59] <alex_joni> the ones I use are 15kg
[22:37:05] <alex_joni> and 5000mm working range :D
[22:37:40] <alex_joni> well.. think I'll head to bed
[22:37:52] <alex_joni> CIA is not putting my messages through :/
[22:37:53] <anonimasu_> Martin_Lundstrom: www.parvex.com
[22:37:57] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:38:25] <anonimasu_> they should have some 5 axis stuff
[22:38:45] <lerneaen_hydra> 'night alex
[22:38:52] <anonimasu_> night alex
[22:38:52] <lerneaen_hydra> 'night everyone else
[22:39:07] <anonimasu_> night lh
[22:39:20] <Martin_Lundstrom> night
[22:40:36] <Martin_Lundstrom> hmm but type that rainnea used looks neat
[22:41:20] <anonimasu_> it's cheap..
[22:41:32] <anonimasu_> if you can make the parts yourself.
[22:41:40] <anonimasu_> the commercial heads are not,,
[22:41:42] <anonimasu_> maybe the one tomp posted..
[22:41:44] <Martin_Lundstrom> I agree
[22:41:54] <anonimasu_> but the real ones are several $10 000
[22:42:05] <Martin_Lundstrom> it seemes alittle sloppy
[22:46:15] <anonimasu_> hm, for that kind of cash difference I dont think it's a big deal :D
[23:06:44] <K`zan> Considering getting these for thrust bearings for the uMill, assuming they are 8x16x1?mm (got a query into them). Comments anyone? http://www.skatebearings.com/etoad/index.php?preq=viewproduct&productId=164
[23:07:21] <anonimasu> K`zan: where?
[23:07:25] <K`zan> http://www.skatebearings.com/etoad/index.php?preq=viewproduct&productId=164
[23:07:25] <anonimasu> x/y/z?
[23:07:30] <K`zan> Yes
[23:07:37] <anonimasu> hm, why not..
[23:07:51] <anonimasu> I'm considering skipping my duplex configuration..
[23:08:03] <anonimasu> and going for a easier design..
[23:08:04] <K`zan> Seems to be what others are using although no one ever IDs them as other than "skate bearings"...
[23:08:16] <anonimasu> it feels overkill..
[23:08:25] <K`zan> ??
[23:08:40] <K`zan> Anything has got to help :-).
[23:08:48] <K`zan> Cheap :-) too.
[23:09:01] <anonimasu> my bearings are like this > | <
[23:09:43] <K`zan> I'm going with all the examples I have see other people do... :-/.
[23:09:46] <anonimasu> and with a nut for the screw..
[23:09:50] <K`zan> Seems simple enough...
[23:09:54] <K`zan> Doable...
[23:10:01] <tomp_> Martin_Lundstrom: the video looks pretty good http://www.doughtydrive.com/images/DD2a.wmv
[23:10:09] <anonimasu> it's a mess :)
[23:10:25] <anonimasu> though it works really well :)
[23:16:11] <K`zan> Will order them once I get the actual dimensions then.
[23:16:27] <ds3> dimensions for?
[23:17:14] <K`zan> those skate bearings.
[23:17:18] <K`zan> http://www.skatebearings.com/etoad/index.php?preq=viewproduct&productId=164
[23:17:46] <ds3> these.. they are metric sized
[23:17:59] <ds3> what dimension do you need? I think I have one around I can measure
[23:18:03] <K`zan> From what I gather 8mmx16mmx1mm
[23:18:19] <K`zan> What others are using on the same mill for the same purpose...
[23:18:22] <ds3> 8mm is the inside dia for sure
[23:18:36] <ds3> they are thicker then 1mm
[23:18:36] <ds3> let me get mine
[23:18:42] <K`zan> I need 6 of them for the 3 axis.
[23:18:55] <K`zan> they have thicker, but that would require replacing the lead screws...
[23:19:24] <K`zan> Now if I tighten down the cranks, it locks up or is too tight to turn...
[23:19:36] <K`zan> easily...
[23:20:09] <ds3> 22mm OD
[23:20:21] <SWPadnos> those bearings are 8x22x7 mm
[23:20:22] <ds3> 7mm thick
[23:20:24] <K`zan> Not sure how that would work, probably bigger than the blocks.
[23:20:45] <ds3> SWPadnos: is there some trick to decoding 608?
[23:20:49] <K`zan> Doing this slow and easy to the budget :-).
[23:21:15] <K`zan> As I can and all that.
[23:21:28] <SWPadnos> I googled for "608ZZ" :)
[23:21:33] <SWPadnos> the ZZ means double shield, I think
[23:21:42] <K`zan> Yes, should be.
[23:21:59] <K`zan> lemme see if I can find an example of what I am doing here....
[23:22:18] <SWPadnos> the numbers are pretty standard. if you look at MSC or McMaster, you can find the standard number for the bearings you have
[23:22:22] <ds3> K`zan: are you in the bay area? I got a bunch still in the package that i found cheap
[23:22:44] <ds3> Oh...heh thought there might be a system to the numbers
[23:22:49] <SWPadnos> then look on eBay - there are loads of bearings for sale cheap (like $19.95 for 100)
[23:22:52] <K`zan> http://www.theblossers.net/index.php?action=view_gallery&id=3&module=imagegallerymodule&src=%40random44022cc7ad591
[23:23:02] <K`zan> ds3: seattle...
[23:23:07] <K`zan> for a bit longer :).
[23:23:12] <ds3> Oh n/m... shipping will kill it
[23:23:27] <K`zan> Yep, appreciate the thought MUCH though :-)!
[23:23:29] <ds3> cuz I can probally let you have 6 of them for maybe $3ish
[23:23:41] <SWPadnos> no - the only standard thing I know is that 6000's are standard, 7000'sa re angular contact, and I think 5000s are extra thick or something
[23:23:57] <ds3> (that covers my cost; they been sitting around for a long time so...)
[23:23:58] <K`zan> Pretty sure they are going to be too big and too thick :-(.
[23:24:10] <K`zan> Lemme go mike that...
[23:24:27] <SWPadnos> thrust bearings aren't the same thing as the 608's
[23:24:55] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:25:05] <ds3> heehe.... what I would like to really find out is the official specs on those 'trailer' angular contact bearings
[23:25:11] <anonimasu> ^_^
[23:32:58] <K`zan> SWPadnos: Heh, I only need 6 of them :-), 100 I would have no idea what to do with :).
[23:33:11] <SWPadnos> are they all the same? .... :)
[23:33:33] <SWPadnos> you have the Harbor Freight micro-mill, right?
[23:33:33] <K`zan> ds3: Unf the 7mm width would outrun the shaft :-(.
[23:33:40] <K`zan> SWPadnos: Yes
[23:33:57] <SWPadnos> the parts list doesn't seem to indicate that there are any bearings
[23:34:07] <K`zan> There aren't
[23:34:20] <SWPadnos> ok
[23:34:23] <K`zan> see this for what I am planning on doing:
[23:34:27] <K`zan> http://www.theblossers.net/index.php?action=view_gallery&id=3&module=imagegallerymodule&src=%40random44022cc7ad591
[23:34:43] <K`zan> Seems to be the "usual" fix for the uMill...
[23:34:52] <K`zan> In one form or another...
[23:35:36] <ds3> K`zan: you might be stuck with buying something from MSC/McMaster
[23:36:07] <K`zan> ds3: Could, I'm sure they have something, but most people seem to be using skate bearings for this...
[23:36:19] <K`zan> 8 for $9+shipping...
[23:36:20] <SWPadnos> skate bearings aren't the same thing that person used
[23:36:42] <K`zan> No, but a lot of people are from what I gather and successfully.
[23:36:53] <SWPadnos> sure, but the mount design would be totally different
[23:36:55] <K`zan> Anything is better than what is(n't) there now :).
[23:37:08] <K`zan> 8x16mm is 8x16mm :).
[23:37:12] <ds3> those definitely are not 608ZZ's
[23:37:31] <K`zan> No, but the idea is the same...
[23:37:33] <SWPadnos> no - 8x16mm radial bearings != 8x16mm thrust bearings
[23:37:47] <SWPadnos> it's the difference between a tire and a lazy susan
[23:37:53] <K`zan> Hummm, wonder why so many people use skate bearings ?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!????
[23:38:02] <SWPadnos> they use different bearing blocks
[23:38:23] <ds3> SWPadnos: those are thrust bearings?
[23:38:26] <K`zan> Could well be, could WELL be...
[23:38:34] <SWPadnos> for a radial bearing, you have a (very tight fitting) hole that holds the outer part (like a tire), and the inner part turns
[23:38:45] <ds3> didn't know they make them like that
[23:38:49] <SWPadnos> a thrust bearing allows one side to rotate independently of the other, like a turntable
[23:39:05] <SWPadnos> well, that's what the guy said, so I'm believing him ;)
[23:39:16] <ds3> uh okay
[23:39:18] <K`zan> As I understand it (and fully realize that I could VERY well be confused), they use the bearings to snub everything up and still have it turn.
[23:39:34] <ds3> for something that rotates so slowly, why not go with sintered bronze bearings?
[23:39:35] <SWPadnos> err - the blog K`zan poisted, not the 608's
[23:39:36] <Martin_Lundstrom> tomp_, anonimasu I discovered that the rainnea design is not a snail gear type...
[23:39:56] <K`zan> I can tighten up the hancrank wheels to where I have no backlash, but I can't turn them at that point (well, not easily).
[23:40:15] <skunkworks> skate bearings? http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/zaxis.JPG ;)
[23:40:55] <K`zan> Because, it seems, that the handwheel is flat against the block - the skate bearings would still allow it to turn.
[23:41:00] <ds3> skate bearings in that usage might be bad, a large enough load may pop the alls out
[23:41:06] <SWPadnos> no they won't
[23:41:10] <K`zan> alls?
[23:41:15] <ds3> balls
[23:41:29] <ds3> this keyboard is getting non responsive :(
[23:41:36] <K`zan> no, from what I gather they are in a "dished" holder.
[23:41:40] <K`zan> :-)
[23:41:54] <K`zan> with like washers on either side.
[23:41:57] <ds3> but that's not how a skate bearing would mount
[23:42:03] <SWPadnos> skate bearings have a center part (central like an axle would be) that you would be clamping from both sides. you would still be able to turn the outer race freely though ;)
[23:42:22] <K`zan> -|block|----
[23:42:27] <K`zan> huh?
[23:42:49] <ds3> a skate bearing is held by the outter circumference/race
[23:42:55] <K`zan> | == skate bearings --- == shaft(leadscrew).
[23:43:11] <K`zan> I'm sure as hell confused...
[23:43:19] <K`zan> More confuzed :-).
[23:43:22] <ds3> this is where a white board app would be useful
[23:43:27] <SWPadnos> follow the link from that blog to the mcmaster part number
[23:43:39] <SWPadnos> when it's loaded, let me know
[23:44:29] <K`zan> Got it...
[23:44:48] <SWPadnos> ok. see the first diagram
[23:45:00] <K`zan> Problem right off the top is that the cost went from $10 to $60 :-(.
[23:44:59] <SWPadnos> where it says "shaft dia." "thk" and "OD"
[23:45:10] <SWPadnos> that's only there for the pictures :)
[23:45:21] <SWPadnos> I'm not suggesting that you buy from there :)
[23:45:52] <SWPadnos> so - you see how the bearing goes together? flat ring on top, rollers in the middle, flat ring on the bottom
[23:46:01] <SWPadnos> (well, flat with a groove for the balls)
[23:46:25] <K`zan> Skate bearings are , in theory anyway, same thing with a couple washers, but I see the point about thickness now.
[23:46:45] <SWPadnos> no they aren't - that's what I'm trying to tell you
[23:47:00] <K`zan> lemme go look at the skate bearings again.
[23:47:09] <SWPadnos> wait - they have them on McMaster as well
[23:48:03] <SWPadnos> search McMaster for 5972K45
[23:48:13] <K`zan> OK, I see what you are saying now- skate bearings are attached to the SHAFT, not just on it.
[23:48:17] <SWPadnos> right
[23:48:44] <SWPadnos> for a thrust bearing the two sides are independent, fora roller bearing the center and outside are independent
[23:48:47] <K`zan> What I want is the ones that just sit on the shaft and are supporting the bearings against the blocks.
[23:48:49] <ds3> if you can use something bigger -
[23:48:50] <K`zan> Sigh....
[23:48:54] <ds3> http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G13613
[23:48:56] <K`zan> SO much for a cheap solution :).
[23:49:14] <SWPadnos> if you bore out the block a little more, then you can use a skate bearing, and it won't even take up any extra thickness
[23:49:15] <ds3> 1.27 OD @ $1.00/each or $0.50 10+
[23:49:48] <K`zan> Unf way too big :-(
[23:50:06] <K`zan> boring out the block is the problem at this point....
[23:50:17] <ds3> or keep an eye out on the surplus vendors, small thrust bearings do show up everything now and then
[23:50:30] <K`zan> The main reason I like the way the link did it was no boring needed...
[23:50:44] <K`zan> Easy enough to do once I have CNC working.
[23:50:46] <ds3> what's the problem with boring it?
[23:50:56] <SWPadnos> you must lose some travel then, since the thrust bearings add thickness ...
[23:51:04] <K`zan> No 4 jaw chuck for the lathe to begin with.
[23:51:16] <K`zan> $100 for that...
[23:51:19] <SWPadnos> boring only needs a drill press (and a lot of patience, if you have a low power spindle)
[23:51:18] <ds3> that is not a problem
[23:51:19] <K`zan> more or less.
[23:51:28] <ds3> what lathe?
[23:51:34] <K`zan> Cummins 7x12
[23:51:43] <ds3> yes, you can bore!
[23:51:56] <ds3> I have that lathe... it comes with a face plate
[23:52:00] <ds3> no need for a 4J
[23:52:14] <K`zan> err, ah, how does AHA, didn't think of that!
[23:52:20] <K`zan> Yes, it came with one.
[23:52:22] <K`zan> NOW I see!
[23:52:32] <ds3> BUT before you begin
[23:52:32] <K`zan> THANKS THANKS THANKS THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-) :-) :-).
[23:52:41] <ds3> face something and check for flatness
[23:52:50] <K`zan> Use it like a 4 jaw chuck, sorta - kinda.
[23:52:57] <ds3> mine was out of alignment by at least 0.010 :(
[23:53:12] <K`zan> I can face it once I get it mounted.
[23:53:18] <ds3> no, face a dummy peice
[23:53:20] <K`zan> probably should anyway.
[23:53:31] <ds3> otherwise you will wind up with a dish or a cone if it is out of alignment
[23:53:40] <K`zan> all that will do is transfer whatever is out to the dummy?!?
[23:53:45] <K`zan> it is out
[23:53:46] <SWPadnos> I'd take a piece of aliminum, thread a few holes (for mounting a workpiece), drill a few more (for mounting to the faceplate), and turn that down for a good flat surface
[23:54:16] <K`zan> Why not square up the faceplate in the first place ?!?
[23:54:20] <ds3> yeah, my headstock was not aligned with the bed
[23:54:25] <SWPadnos> well, yuo can do that too ;)
[23:54:35] <K`zan> * K`zan ignorance is surely showing :-/.
[23:54:44] <SWPadnos> no - probably mine, I'm not (yet) a lathe guy :)
[23:54:55] <ds3> faceplate is 1 - cast iron; it is suppose to be dirty stuff; 2 - face plate is something you paid for, best not to waste it
[23:55:07] <K`zan> Wouldn't that make more sense in that you only have to sqare up the faceplace rather than everything you do with it?
[23:55:27] <ds3> it isn't the face plate, it is checking to see if the headstock is square wrt to the ways
[23:55:37] <K`zan> Ah, I think I see, a face place for the face plate....
[23:55:50] <ds3> you can put a large peice of stuff in the 3J chuck and face that
[23:55:54] <ds3> that's what I did
[23:55:59] <K`zan> Heh, I don't think anything on those is cqure...
[23:56:12] <ds3> yes
[23:56:30] <ds3> and the bed is not of consistant thickness either... really makes it hard to use the camlock mod on the tailstock :(
[23:56:48] <K`zan> Hummm, back to being lost and confused again - at least I didn't waste $10+ doing it though :). Thanks!
[23:57:22] <K`zan> The $60 for the bearings is starting to look better and better...
[23:57:37] <ds3> either you pay all at once or you pay peicemeal :/
[23:58:18] <K`zan> Yeah, maybe I should just byte the bullet and get the CNC-Fusion mounts...
[23:58:31] <K`zan> Expensive as hell, but plug and play...
[23:58:49] <K`zan> http://www.cncfusion.com/micromill1.html
[23:58:51] <K`zan> those
[23:59:15] <K`zan> I have never thrashed so much on any project in my life :-).
[23:59:25] <ds3> you got the LMS Y axis extension for it?
[23:59:40] <K`zan> Not yet, but it IS on the list. Probably before the CNC stuff.