lerman______ is now known as lerman
still making circuit boards?
lerman______ is now known as lerman
Ok, HD has cold water grounding clamps for $1.39
hose clamp almost as expensive, so why not
and cheaper than a grounding rod + clamp
sold seperately of course
my cold water pipe is plastic
I would have to run a wire to the well casing. but I have 2 ground rods barried about 8 feet apart and 8 feet deep.. in wet clay
I mean the top of them are 8 feet under ground
(they where driven in before the basement was back-filled
not really sure if that is code ;)
no clue =)
I'm probalby gonna have to do my rewiring sooner rather than later
the RFI filter has caps to ground
which is fine in a stationary piece of equipment that is well grounded
but the electrical code assumes people are going to be running around in a damp basement in their bare feet with a defective electric drill, so all my basement outlets have GFIs on them
the small current thru the filter caps is probably gonna trip the GFI
* jepler <-- pretty clueless about electrical stuff
you know what a GFI is?
strange looking outlet next to kitchen sinks, in bathrooms, and in basements...
I could point one out, yes
it seems to be some kind of local circuit breaker device
ground fault interrupter
it measures the current going out the hot wire, and coming back the neutral
steves_logging1 is now known as steve_stallings
if they don't match within 6mS (IIRC) it assumes the difference is going through you to ground, and it trips
in my case, the difference is going thru a noise filter cap into the green wire safety ground, and there is no reason to trip
try convincing a GFI of that tho....
(a little better now than before)
if they don't match within 6mA, not mS
are you saying that this cap takes longer than 6mS to charge .. er, oh
I really should plug my PC into an outlet without a GFI too...
measuring +-6mA on a 10A load -- that would take a very good current sense, about 1 part per 2000
I accidently tripped the one on the bench testing something, now I get to restart all the VMs and such
not really, just analog trickery
they run both wires thru a toriod core, and the current cancels
the toroid only sees the difference
I was imagining two very low-value, .01% resistors
or the like
any channel operator about? my steves_logging ID is "in use" but it must be an abandonded session that I cannot kill it
this is all AC anyway, so transformers work
steve_stallings: I think I have a note somewhere telling me how to get op status
I think you have to get help from freenode staff to kill a user's connection. Maybe this will help? http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#helpfromstaff
jmk - I have removed the end bell from a Kelinginc stepper and had a bit of trouble getting it back on. Magnets are very strong and a precision fit of end bell is difficult while fighting magnet.
thanks for the warning
steve_stallings: I should have looked at the user list before I bothered to get op
steves_logging isn't there
not sure what if anything I can do for you
true, but it will not allow me to change nick to it and claims it is owned by someone else, seems unlikely as it is not a generic name
the someone else is you
did you give your password?
I will try staff assistance....
/msg nickserv identify <password>
I use that often as I change from logging to active, and I am recognized when I issue to attempt to change to "steves_logging" but it does not help
by the way... the greatest problem with the Kelinginc motor end bell is that it is relatively soft alum and the motor body is steel which result is creating burrs on the aluminum as you try to press it into the mis-aligned opening
if the nick steves_logging is registered to you, you can try /quote ns ghost <nickname> [password]
(or /ns ghost ... depending on your IRC client)
steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
jelper: bingo - THANKS
pain trying to figure how I wired the house 5 years ago...
jmk - have you purchased motor driver yet for your motors?
skunkworks: beats trying to find out how somebody else wired the house 75 years ago
I suppose.. :) I ran tons of home runs to the breaker box - but for some reason - some I ran to swich boxes.. no ryme or reason. :)
I have a customer that has G202s and may be having problems with 1200 oz-in motors purchase from HomeShopCNC tripping overcurrent protection in them
but as an over-do-er - I ran extra feeds to most boxes.
my biggest problem is that the breaker box is full
fortunately we prefer gas applicances
the 50A electric stove circuit now feeds the subpanel in the garage
and the 30A electric dryer circuit now feeds the central air
but there are no other 240V circuits at all
and no open 120V ones
I've been tempted to parallel a subpanel in the basement off the same 50A breaker that feeds the garage
lerman______ is now known as lerman
sounds like a plan. do you weld in the garage?
some day I will have a garage ;)
but the possibility of a welder is one reason I ran the heavy feeder out there
the Van Norman is out there, and it uses 220V
but not much current, probablly less than 10A
lerman______ is now known as lerman
having problems lerman?
steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
lerman_______ is now known as lerman
there - that light circuit is now working
other than I have to hook up 2 more sconses
lerman_______ is now known as lerman
SWPadnos: got the mesa stuff - thanks again!
SWPadnos: same here - looks great.
cradek: hooked up yet?
skunkworks: not yet, just got home and it's too late to start anything
I still have to figure out what to do with those stupid motor connectors...
good deal guys :)
why to bikers on biker build off, look like garden gnomes?
I guess my note on the door worked - it's good to be in a safe area
SWPadnos, get my check yet?
yes, today, I think :)
"I think"? did you just imagine it?
freak'n cold... I opened my window to get more oxygen in my room, as my lips were turning dark, cause of lack of O2.
has jmkasunich, got his mesa? :D
can you hook an s32 writer to a u32 reader?
damned integer types...
what pin is u32? there are very few, if any
I was going to suggest he can generate it with weighted_sum, but that outputs s32
maybe we shuld change it
I'm not sure what unsigned is good for
I suspect weighted_sum will be one of the most common ways to generate an input for that pin
well it's sure true that negative joints make no sense.
clearly a negative joint is no good, but so are 2^32-8 of the possible values of aq u32
weighted_sum sure needs a manpage :-/
anyone going to cabin fever?
too far to drive
I'd go if it were close
it would be fun
(not as far as cnc workshop, but if I want to see models NAMES is a lot closer
I'd probably go for the auction more than the models
although I don't need anything that would fit in my car
I guess there will be auction/swap meets?
you always need tooling
I thought names would be cool - until I heard what happened to roland and ray. Sounds like a stuck up bunch. imo
I'm rather annoyed at this 8-32 tap...
proper size hole, plenty of oil, and it just decided to wipe the threads right out of the hole
you were fixing existing threads?
no, making new ones
in a panel, to mount a contactor
6-32 and 10-32 tapped fine
did you drill the 75% size since it's thin?
I used #29
I think thats 90%
the same standard I used for the 6-32 and 10-32 holes, and they're fine
that seems small but I don't have the chart here
no idea what happened
the 8-32 tap is yellow (TiN coated) while the other 2 are bright
I know TiN is better for steel, but I didn't know it sucked for aluminum
all different brands - I have some that seem to have no clearance for the chips. pain to use. go in a little - all the way out to clean the flutes.
now I gotta find 8-32 nuts
I'm in luck, looks like a 10-32 will just barely fit thru the mounting holes in the contactor
I'll redrill and tap for #10 and call it good
and throw out that tap?
"fool me once, shame on you"
keep it for steel
every online chart does seem to show #29
my tap set has a chart that shows 60% and 75% for blind/deep and thin holes
I wonder why thin has less thread depth than normal?
I would think you need all the strength you can get
you use a smaller hole for thin, not larger
smaller hole = more % of thread, I thought
yes I think so
60% for blind/deep, 75% for thin
what about for "normal"?
not sure. I use 75 if it doesn't seem like I'll break the tap, 60 otherwise
yeah, or "whatever fractional drill is in between those"
oh - what drill number does it recommend for 75% on an 8-32?
or "whatever drill I can find that's even remotely close"
you need to invest in a set of number drills...
Jymmm, no, 4-40 is #43
42 is the meaning of life
4-40 is just a pita
but WD-40 and a lighter is fun!
no - I thought it was the ansewer to the ultimate question of life the univers and everything
#29 is the 75%
9/64 is the 60%
the chart says "thin" means less than the diameter
oh I usually have the necessary numbered drills
jmkasunich, played with the mesa much?
A-L-P-H-A: no, I've been busy with something else
drilling and tapping and sawing and filing and such
never new electrical work was so frickin mechanical
I had to buy contractors packs of switches and outlets today. MUCH cheap3er btw
lerman_______ is now known as lerman
Hey, did you guys know that all broadcast TV will go bye-bye in 2009?
In the US at least
I think I'm finally done with the oily work...
oily electrical work is NOT a good thing
oily = drilling, tapping, etc
I washed the panel well before starting to mount stuff on it
I didn't hear the from the beginning what you were doing.
I'm building up this: http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/shoptask/power-input-schematic.pdf
lerman_______ is now known as lerman
why is k1 12v?
because its what I had
and the 12V from the PC power supply will do a nice job of turning it on
all kinds of voltages on it
220 48 12 110
it is cold tonight
jmkasunich: your diagram looks like the 220V in a home (15 amps, like electric dryer). Can neutral be identified with a meter?
check the voltage against safety ground
neutral is the other zero volt wire
ds3: i should expect neutral to safety gnd = 0V and safety gnd to true gnd ( like where gas company grounds meter ) also = 0v ?
[07:22:04] <ejholmgren> http://imagebin.org/6881
gschem "works" in osx
although it locks frequently if you get clicky
tomp: not always
neutral can carry current so there is I*R voltages on there relative to safety ground which should never carry current
ejholmgren: try eagle if you like, free schematic capture & pcb layout, extra libs available at website, free for osx
3x4 board size and 2 layers max.
and you are not suppose to make $$ off it ;)
and does it run natively? ...
native Linux executable
ds3: ok, so >small< currents ok from neutral to true gnd, but no voltage from safety to true gnd
ejholmgren: i think so, check the website, it said osx but i didnt catch version
tomp: should be around 0mA. the safety ground is not always sized to carry correct except in a fault situation
have to check that out
[07:31:28] <tomp> http://www.cadsoft.de/cgi-bin/download.pl?page=/home/cadsoft/html_public/download.htm.en&dir=eagle/program/4.1
probally as long as a GCFI doesn't trip, it is okay (guessing)
thanks: i didnt know how close to gnd potential, 0 mA... thanks ( i dont trust the wiring here, circa 1910 and some cloth covered!)
gfi: good idea, there's a few here
I only have fvwm for the X11 stuff at the moment (which takes me back about 10 years)
how goes it Jymmm ?
alex_joni: Not bad I guess... eletrical fire diverted
how is your housing situation?
alex_joni Moved the last box in December 25th @ 1500
alex_joni: Then the gf's monitor went out, replaced it. a day later my 32" TV went out, replaced it. 2 days after that, the frig went out, replaced it. The replacement frig was defective, had it fixed two days later.
Then had an eletrical short in a lamp. replaced the outlat and wall switch
HAd critter scratching on back door, installed motion light.
Murphy is just hard at work.
so it's going well I guess :D
on the right track I mean :P
LOL, yeah.. I guess =)
well.. it's getting better.. ain't it
Yeah, were in. only took 5.5 months
if you spend 5 years there, that's close to nothing :)
13 truck loads later
I dont plan on it.
after all the pain? :D
No, just a stepping stone.
It got us out from under "those people", but bigger better plans now. Clear the clutter and off to better things. At least that's the plan for aow anyway
I'm looking at setting up an HD tuner/antenna, but looking intot he detials now
over the air (not cable or satellite)
[09:05:00] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_digital_television_deployments_by_country#United_States
seen some cheapish USB tuners
not sure how good they are though
@009 is the deadline, after that there is no more broadcast TV
Channles 2 thru 83 will go bye-bye
well.. they said that for analog radio too
No, this is already in effect in the Federal Rgister.
They've had 4 years, 2009 is the deadline
guess I'm not affected by it right now
I will be when tv sets without HD go up in price :D
go DOWN in price oyu mean, as they'll be worthless
at least not w/o a HD tuner
I'm not so sure
they will be making way less of those
so it might go up in price
What, like an Atari 2600?
I hardly doubt europe will have 50% coverage by 2009
Jymmm: they will surely drop in price in the US
I'm talking over here
Congress finally fixed February 17th, 2009, in law as the maximum end date for analog television authorizations.
just got a quotation back
[09:10:13] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATSC_tuner
200 EUR for a small laser gimmick
one for adjusting laser barriers
lerman_______ is now known as lerman
[09:11:35] <alex_joni> http://www.leuze.de/products/las/la/p_01_en.html
doesn't feel like 200 EUR
it's simply a laser pointer with 2 screws on the side
[09:12:34] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92801
not quite the same thing
[09:13:28] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=54050
I use these: http://www.leuze.de/products/las/robust4/p_01_en.html
[09:13:51] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94644
usually 4-5m apart
[09:14:07] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94911
the right one is a mirror
Jymmm: seen http://www.leuze.de/products/las/robust4/p_01_en.html
alex_joni where's the sharks?
[09:17:46] <alex_joni> http://www.leuze.de/products/las/robust4/p_04_en.html
aligning those 4 laser (invisible of course) over 6m is a real PITA
[09:27:07] <Jymmm> http://www.google.com/search?q=free-to-air&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
[09:27:53] <Jymmm> http://coolsatusa.com/4000pro.htm
simon78 is now known as slundell
slundell is now known as slundell_
slundell_ is now known as slundell
Jymmm: sounds like a sat receiver to me :)
alex_joni sorta, but free
is that unusual?
that seems odd
seen lots around here
alex_joni: there are laser cards..
every big store has them
anonimasu: laser cards?
wait a moment
alex_joni: cant you use polarized glasses or something?
never tried :D
and no polarized glass around to test
I think there are cards that glow on laser exposure..
never seen those
my memory might be broken again though
alex_joni: sorry for shitting you, they probably dont exist as I cant find them..
heh.. not a reason for them not to exist :)
Iv'e been looking into the HAL primarily using the pluto-p and I beginning to understand it at least a little more running halcmd show pin etc while changing things within the axis gui. One thing occured to me and that it would be nice to have a hal gui configurator ie a graphical interface with components pin and signals that could be graphicaly connected together to produce a .hal file....
...Has this been considered or does it already exist?
paragon36: it has been considered
[10:11:13] <alex_joni> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1020128&group_id=6744&atid=356744
paragon36: a few people started working on this, the best result was by jepler: http://axis.unpy.net/files/01161727709/hallelujah5.png
Would be a nice addition. Additionlay one could watch in realtime the interaction between EMC2 - hardware in realtime in a visual way. A bit like a traceroute gui map
it's not complete / functional right now, and I'm not sure if jeff is still working on it
Thanks Alex Ill take a look at the links .... Unfortunatly my coding skill's are more perl / ksh orientated these days :-(
paragon36: I know it would be nice..
talked to a app engineer again..
the design I want is possible..
can you ask him about mine too? :D
I dont know about your _thin_
it's a simple one :D
Alex appears that it's been put on the back burner for a while last update on the link you sent was 2004
paragon36: the tracker, yes
but the work jeff did was last year
so is there a kind af partial release in the HEAD?
no, it's not released anywhere :D
you need to bug jeff about this :)
but right now, as far as I understand it, it only inspects an existing configuration, and you need to place the components manually
so that you don't have a full mess
I'll bug him when I feel more comfortable with my understanding of the HAL ;-)
I wish dallur would come by
Im here :D
for plasma how do you do thc?
[10:33:47] <Dallur> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Torch_Height_Control
I mean the physical stuff
[10:34:37] <Dallur> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/dallur-thc-design.txt
will that work for my machine?
anonimasu: There in the top I list the hardware that my stuff works with
anonimasu: depends on what hardware you have really
that kind of thc..
voltage controlled, iirc
I wonder how fast campbelldesigns ships one..
Dallur: how well does it work?
I wondered if there were a homebrew version..
alex_joni: I have not done enough testing to recommend with or against it
anonimasu: all you need is an ADC
anonimasu: there is a homebrew version
thc-300 is based on MP10000
alex_joni: I need to voltage divider stuff also..
err MP1000 which comes from a yahoo forum
anonimasu: only a bit :D
Dallur: got a link?
anonimasu: HF is also a bit of a problem :P
the original design stuff was all made by a couple of guys on a yahoo forum, just a sec
Dallur: have you tested with emc-2.1.x ?
* alex_joni wonders if CL still works and all..
alex_joni: I did all my work on head a couple of months ago
I have not tested for a couple of months so don't know
I wonder how the delievry is of a thc-300
yeah, but that might have been before jepler ported classicladder (newer version)
yup, I also wanted to test if I could get the new classicladder features hooked up (float signals)
Dallur: got any idea at all?
anonimasu: the thc-300 and the MP1000 were both designed to work with Mach2/Mach3 and so the development is from that
but shipping.. and stuff.
anonimasu: for the design info you can find some in the http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/
but most of it is in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Master5/
anonimasu: I just got a box with the whole thing, I can't remember how long it took
Dallur: I can buy one, it's just a shipping issue..
~3 weeks is fine..
anonimasu: I'm sure it was less, more like 1 week to Iceland :P
alex_joni: I will be testing everything in a week or two though, I'm currently reassembling the table after having it hot dip galvanized :D
alex_joni: I need to upload some pictures, it's very "bling bling" with a shiny metal surface
btw, I got thinking this morning that the next version of ubuntu will ship with hardware accelerated X desktop turned on by default, wondering if this will cause any problems for emc
Dallur: Why is it not?
paragon36: Why would it cause problems ?
I think I'll order a THC..
Dallur: we still support only dapper (6.06)
6.10 is not supported
but when it will be I guess the accelerated X desktop won't work because there are no drivers for the realtime kernel
I specifically built the nonfree drivers for 2.6.15-magma without the nvidia or ati drivers
Sorry Dallur that was meant more as a question as in is not enabled as default :-)
Currently how much is EMC1 / EMC2 used in industry?
paragon36: we have no way of knowing that :)
there should be at least a couple hundred industrial users
and loads of hobby grade users
sure .... I was just wondering how industry has received it as an alternative solution to off the shelf big buck solutions.
Comming from a banking background (solaris admin) I have seen the banking industry move towards opensource Linux (RH / Suse) more and the last 2 - 3 years. The stigma attached to opensource and critical production system has certainly evaporated within that business sector.
I would only presume the same is / will happen with in the automation / manufaturing industry.
paragon36: the funny thing about the banking industry is that they still don't seem to keen on telling anyone outside their organization about the "move to open source"
paragon36: I think it might similar with other mission critical computer systems
[11:02:36] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Screenshots
feel free to add other screenshots there people :D
Dallur: I agree! However I have noticed a huge increase for Solaris / Linux skills when checking out jobserve within the banking sector. UBS has been a Red Hat house (blade) for some 2-3 years now and just about the rest are following. Interesting times :-)
err, that would be A-L-P-H-A
Dam vnc connection from work to home has lag .... but I know I can't spell for sh$% ;-)
Dallur: I saw you used tkemc in your setup
paragon36: why not use ssh? :)
text is surely enough for IRC :)
alex_joni: yup, I use it when I run a remote X server because Axis does not play nice over remote X
Dallur: ok, it changed a bit lately
[11:06:52] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/tkemc.png
alex_joni: um, a setup with a milling environment might be nice
so you can see the 3d goodness
alex_joni: I noticed some changes the last time I built from head, but the optional stop is new :D
lerneaen_hydra: feel free :D
Dallur: teh spindle override and optional stop are the new things
alex_joni: What is the logic behind the Optional Stop ?
if you program M1 and the button is activated it stops just like M0
if it's not activated it keeps going
[11:10:23] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode/main/index.html#sub:Optional-Program-Stop-Interaction
alex_joni: so it's a stop which kicks in after a g-code line has finished executing
Dallur: no, only when you program M1
alex_joni: to change tools/tips or just for manual user actions
usually manual user actions
I agree but I have my linux desktop running here for mail / emc2 / unmonitored web surfing (skiving) so I am using Xvnc via a ssh tunnel .... Most the time its fine but on the occasion lag rears it head ;-)
I use ssh/screen/irssi for IRC
Catch you soon got to go and install \ configure SNMP on 12 linux servers should be fun....
that way I can connect/disconnect and the client stays on
Dallur: going to order a thc as soon as I get a quote on the shipping time
[11:42:13] <fenn> http://bp1.blogger.com/_NckaSydoEac/RZfrIE1Q1HI/AAAAAAAAAiY/bUgIGdKtcAE/s1600-h/lego-ice-cube.jpg
fenn: haha, nice link
alex_joni: ooh, does screen let you ssh into a machine, start a task, disconnect, and still leave it running?
what time is it in the us?
anonimasu: great, btw I think it would be good to let Bob Campbell know that you intend to use it with EMC
-9 hours or thereabouts
there are three different timezones though
IIRC -9 is the western timezone
lerneaen_hydra: yes, exactly that
[11:53:08] <alex_joni> http://www.hmug.org/man/1/screen.php
alex_joni: doing <command> & isn't enough to keep it running I take it?
lerneaen_hydra: it is
oh, even better
but this way you can start commands with text guis
and see what is still working or not
Dallur: will do that..
for example.. starting a wget is messy with &
Dallur: ideally I'd just want the sense card..
it'll just keep printing things to the console
alex_joni: in my case it would be for starting a server-ish app
and if you want to kill it you need to look up the process number, etc
yeah, with top for example
lerneaen_hydra: in that case /etc/init.d/ is better :D
how do you add your own stuff to it?
just make a script?
with !#bin/bash in the start?
depends what you need inside, and how portable you want it :P
I see, those init before runlevel 5, right?
scripts in /etc/init.d
oh, when do they load?
you need to make a script there, and symlink to it from one of the runlevels
Sxxname -> ../yourscript.sh
where xx is the start number
usually these are in /etc/init.d/rc.3/ or rc..5
depending on your default runlevel
3 used to be default with no X, 5 with X
but that changed lately :P
they've changed that?
alex_joni, it has been awhile,
lerneaen_hydra: some did
what's it now?
I think ubuntu uses 2 for full with X
Dallur: what does the setting on the front of the board do?
lerneaen_hydra: anyways init is gone now :D
ubuntu 6.10 doesn't use it anymore :P
[12:04:02] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upstart
alex_joni good afternoon
suddenly no KB input was accepted and "DCOP communication error" windows popped up whenever I tried to start new processes
anonimasu: the front setting on the board hmm
mouse worked fine and I managed to set myself to away in IRC though :/
anonimasu: you mean the turn knob on the front of the board ?
anonimasu: the knob on the front panel sets the voltage that the THC is supposed to maintain, if the arc voltage rises above or below that setting +- buffer an output pin is set high, this pin is read into EMC and emc moves the torch up/down
anonimasu, did you buy a thc?
anonimasu: if you are looking for a system where you can set the voltage from EMC directly I suggest you look at the MP1000 from CandCNC
Dallur, how is your table coming along?
eugenics: still assembling after the hot dip galvanizing, but it's coming along :D
Dallur, let me know when it is up and tested.
eugenics: I will, I also plan to check in a new config with more features and some bug fixes
eugenics: I implemented things like corner height lock and such but I have not tested them
^eugenics: looking at buying one..
Dallur: it's too bloody expensive :D
Dallur: I'd like a 0-10v output..
I'd write plc code for the rest..
anonimasu, I have one like Dallur and it seemes to work OK
anonimasu: get a mesa 5i20 :P
anonimasu, Are you thinking of building some electronics to handle a thc?
^eugenics: well I cant find any schematics ro anything.
anonimasu: I have some at home btw, from the Master5 list
I only found a little
Dallur: could you share them with me?
anonimasu: sure, when I get home I can send them to you, I have to dig around my HDD to find them but should not take long
Dallur: advanced stuff?
anonimasu: some electrical diagrams and such
but are there 3k components?
anonimasu: not sure to tell you the truth, been a while
It would be nice to control the thc with a microcontroller that can be fed with info over USB/PP or alternative
anonimasu: The real problem is dealing with the HF, everything has to be isolated and re-isolated and over and over and over
Dallur is becoming a shieldexpert ;)
anonimasu: the rest is actually really basic, just sense the arc current/voltage by hooking up to the mains
anonimasu: put in a transformer to step it down by a factor of 10 or so, put in a configurable upper/lower limit and put out a couple of 5v signals
all the logic is done in software as it is
Dallur, but it is dead current!?
eugenics: dead current ?
eh not alternating then ;)
Dallur: well, that schematic you had would work right?
should be lots easier then..
Can I have a peak on this schematic?
anonimasu: I recommend you sign up for the Master5/Mach2/Mach3 lists, all the design was pretty much done over those lists so they contain a bunch of info
eugenics: I will mail em to you do :D
is that yahoo groups?
anonimasu: I know they are hell to sign up for but :P
I need to sell my identity to get my password back
anonimasu: We all hate them, but this info is only on those forums :(
I really wish you could to thc with a inductive sensor.
I think Ive seen plenty of them
usually there is 3 sensors
torch height controller
lerneaen_hydra, I have a table :)
^eugenics: well, in that case im all set..
^eugenics: I have analog sensors.. plenty of them..
ok, can be worth a test
though robin_sz said it wouldnt work without sensing the arc voltage..
there might be that the sensors freak out
when the arc is coming
maybe you need some electronics to handle that
I can do filtering in software..
anonimasu, google for thc with non arc voltage sensing
thc = hetracannabinol.. :D
try gogleing for thc ;)
the computer can not come in contact with the sensors
you need a buffert for HF stuff
the sensors would be powered off a separate power supply
isolated from the other stuff..
and it must be senors made for the purpose
yep, that helps a little
well the sensors are emc protected..
try to compare them with sensors that are made for the purpose and try to make a conclution if it would work
anonimasu: but not emc2 protected
I can get them up to 1kV emc protected..
but you will probably save time if you choose a design that been tested
cool, and their reading is not sensetive to magnetic distubances?
strong magnetism dampens the output of the sensor..
let me quote..
jag har sett speciella sensorer frantagna for endamalet
^eugenics: mm, around 700khz is a no zone as it's close to the internal oscilator of the sensors
strong magnetism atennuates the coil..
tittar på campbelldesigns thc sak..
fast, den verkar bara vara ställbar via panel..
anonimasu: HF isn't that high
also I dont understand what they mean by strong magnetism..
permanent and low frequency does not affect the sensors..
i think we will go with one of thoose thc's..
or maybe the one dallur had..
I have that one, the know is quite sensetive
but it works
^eugenics: I think it's a easy way out..
^eugenics: you tried with a single rail right?
yep, but for me that did not work
make it steardy
^eugenics: did you use 2 rails spaced about 15cm apart?
^eugenics: that kind of setup will take 450kg, before the rails start to deform..
^eugenics: the thk app engineer that passed by yesterday said the same thing..
that works, I thought you where thinking of T or H construction
the thk app engineer would do it with a single rail..
alex_jon1 is now known as alex_joni
^eugenics: the thing is that the mounting points/whatever you bolt it to needs to be sturdy as hell
my frame and arm was too sloppy
the guy I talked to was like "you only need one meter Y in that setup?"
the thk rails he pointed at were really wide..
but im not going for thk..
they are expensive
hiwin rails from metallstore.de are reasonably priced... we looked at them when we bought rails, but ended up with rails form ebay
awallin: mind making some screenshots of the new widgets? :D
but I might make some better demo panel later
I started a wiki page with screenshots..
[13:33:10] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Screenshots
yep, I noticed. looks nice, although content is a bit varied, and some descriptions could be added
awallin: feel free :P
I haven't worked with classicladder at all, but I might write something about the other ones
awallin: oooh.. f500 ?
btw, is documentation alsow now branched, so that 2.1 docs are separate from HEAD ?
awallin: yes, it's branched
right. so I think writing some docs for pyvcp might be the next thing to do
and I'd like to be able to show stuff from the emc.status structure with pyvcp widgets
emc-pyvcp ? :D
most things done with widgets also appeal to emc, not necessarely to hal
maybe a component that polls the status structure, and outputs a whole lot of hal pins
that way, there are no major changes to pyvcp
yep, the more I think about it, that's an easy way to do it. a new program stat2hal which polls the status structure every 100ms and outputs a great number of HAL pins. It should be easy to write, copying mostly from AXIS' emcshow.py
yeah, that's the name of the program probably
you have some of the stats from halui
depends what you need
tool and part offsets would be nice
maybe also g-code line number, if that can be used for a progress meter
those are in iocontrol (tool at least), but offset aren't in stat afaik
current line is in EMC_TASK_STAT
int motionLine;// line motion is executing-- may lag
int currentLine;// line currently executing
int readLine;// line interpreter has read to
ok, would still need the total number of lines for a progress bar
there is tool number, tool prepped, and the tooltable in EMC_TOOL_STAT
so you can probably figure out all you need from that
these are C structures I assume ?
look for "class EMC_*_STAT:"
I was thinking I would manage with the things from the emc python module's status structure
I was wondering if the py module has these
but if they exist in NML, then the pymodule can be made to have them aswell
would have been a PITA if they didn't exist in NML
emctop.py shows everything in the py module's status list
last I checked it wasn't the full emc stat
might be wrong here
jepler can probably add stuff to it if I ask nicely :)
again, I'm not sure HAL is the best way forthis
it can be for a number of cases
ok, now I'm suggesting it mostly because it's a very well defined existing way of interfacing between python and emc
but the python emc module does contain NML functions also, I just haven't used them
so if it's possible to poll emc about interesting stuff using NML commands, that could be one way?
jepler, cradek: is there support for log-scale pyvcp objects? if not then that's something that may be good to have
lerneaen_hydra: what makes you think those guys know anything about pyvcp? ;)
aren't they coding the backend stuff?
pyvcp is all mine mine mine
I'd better ask you that question then ;)
log scale would not be that hard, for the bar and the meter widget for example
log scale for scale?
IMO it would be nice for things that can be a large range of values
say power used or feedrate or something
lerneaen_hydra: please add that to the TODO list on the pyvcp wiki page
how was it you logged into the wiki again?
awallin: here's the best I got so far: http://www.robcon.ro/emc/IMG_2011-crop.jpg
lerneaen_hydra: follow BasicSteps
alex_joni: nice. I had to enlarge mine by about 200% for the pic on the blog. what lens are you using in that pic?
the cheap one :P
looking for a link
[14:07:13] <alex_joni> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=8454&A=details&Q=&sku=169267&is=USA&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation
what camera do you have? I have a 20D
[14:08:04] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi-files/photography/01136075857/canon_75-300.jpg
ok, same sensor as mine I guess
alex_joni: how did you take the picture of your camera? ;)
skunkworks: at the bottom there are a few of my cams :D
awallin: yeah, I think it's the same sensor.. but I don't shoot in full size
alex_joni: looks like your bases are covered ;)
not by a long shot :P
you should see my wishlist
I'm half-seriously thinking about this one: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=8454&A=details&Q=&sku=319784&is=USA&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation
awallin, alex_joni: emctop doesn't display quite everything in the emc.stat object, and the emc.stat object doesn't have quite everything in the EMC__STAT structure.
it is not hard to add things to the emc.stat object
added to wiki
jepler: that's what I figured
alex_joni: you are on the right track. either L-zooms or primes is the way to go I think
if it is a simple scalar value (an integer or a float) then it is generally 1 line of code to add it
jepler: alex_joni: but is this a sensible way to do it, create HAL pins from the status structure? or could/should pyvcp query these things from emc with nml commands directly ?
awallin: it's a bit fuzzy for me :)
awallin: is pyvcp in the EMC2 head or are you doing it off-site?
another option is for halui to expose the data
lerneaen_hydra: it's in HEAD
most things you control by hal pins with pyvcp right now, could easily be controlled by NML
lerneaen_hydra: you can see an example if you run the sim/lathe configuration from head (the feedsback spindle speed is displayed)
awallin: I'm not sure I want to admit I can afford an L-zoom :D
probably because I can't
alex_joni: I got the 70-200/F4L and the 17-40/F4L over the past two years. hurts less when you spread out the cost...
and those are the cheapest L's available
oh, probably that's why :)
jepler: is there example code for how to do NML commands with the hal or emc python modules?
I found a laser for adjusting my plasma table btw, they even sent it to me for free :D
If any of you are in the market for lasers (for whatever you use lasers for) these guys seem really good: -> http://www.laserfuchs.de
lerneaen_hydra: did you have a youtube video of your lathe, driven with emc ?
just a sec
awallin: it's on linuxcnc.org
[14:22:39] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=2&Itemid=13&lang=en
[14:22:44] <lerneaen_hydra> http://www.youtube.com/v/MX4SWe8WFA4
alex_joni: ok, I was thinking to complement your recent 'screenshots' addition, we could have a list of videos on the wiki too
I really should make a new video
and did cradek have a video of thread-cutting ?
with more aggressive cuts, a centered tool, and threading
lerneaen_hydra: you have treading working also?
works great :D
awallin: not that I know of
awallin: only pictures
you are using a non-quadurature encoder - correct?
I had to pester alex and cradek a while for some HAL help
awallin: that page on linuxcnc.org could easily fit more technical articles
yeah, the counter module cradek made
awallin: <hint hint>
just a disc with holes and one opto-thingy (and an index one)
lerneaen_hydra: does youtube store the video 'forever' or does it get removed after a while ?
awallin: afaik it's forever
awallin: though they reserve the right to remove it
alex_joni: OR, we could think about the feed aggregator idea? ;)
so it's probably best to host it yourself if it's a longterm thing
I have the original .avi movie (much better quality) if you're interested
I suggest using google video instead, they host it forever and have better servers
you're still at the whim of google though
IMO better to host it yourself if possible
Dallur: the video is on linuxcnc.org too
not only youtube
so there's no issue there
alex_joni: there are nice flash video player plugins for joomla
lerneaen_hydra: I know, tried one, but didn't like it enough
I actually installed it
now I made a wiki page for videos. just the one entry for now... there's a mazak toolchange video I've seen somewhere...
yeah.. hang on
ordering a thc thing as soon as I get a reply
alex_joni: is it here http://www.cncgear.com/Files/
hrm, I don't have the codec for it, just a black screen with sound
the small one doesn't work afaik
is that a good place to host it, or could it be on linuxcnc.org
it's the same DH account
plenty space & bandwidth
ok, but 68 Mb is a bit hefty...
I know :)
too lazy to reencode it though
if and when my servo-mill get's up and running I'll try to contribute with some videos!
anonimasu: you could also try talking directly to Jim Cullins at Sound Logic, It's my understanding that he makes the boards for Bob Campbell
cradeks servo thread cutting video is cool - but that would have to be re-encoded also
skunkworks: where is it?
Dallur: well, it's not a big issue
anonimasu: and according to the info on Bob's web page he is the one that ships these
Dallur: your stuff seems like hard to hook up and configure :/
the emc stuff..
skunkworks: where is that?
my keychain drive ;) - I could put it on my website
or somewhere, I can put it on linuxcnc.org
anonimasu: It's actually really easy to hook up and configure, all you need is 1 parallel port and about 1 day
anonimasu: In any case I have already done all the EMC config required which you can just copy/paste
Dallur: im considering substituting your plc with a real plc..
anonimasu: hmm well some of the logic is in HAL, it's not all in the PLC
anonimasu: you would have to move all the logic to PLC
well, I can do plc > hal..
and the other way
but that wont be realtime..
Dallur: I guess using your config would be a simple solution.
anonimasu: it might be the simplest solution, but it depends on how feature rich you want the THC
what's a reasonable bitrate to re-code the mazak video? divx suggests 780kbps
Dallur: what do you need really?
min height/max height..
and corner lock..
anonimasu: and you need to pause gcode execution while striking an arc
fuzzy but you get the picture
anonimasu: and monitor the arc status and stop g-code if arc is extinguished, try to re-establish arc
Dallur: but that's atuomatic right?
anonimasu: that's all done in software (config)
Dallur: short question
why wouldnt a inductive analog sensor work for height?
skunkworks: was that my video?
Dallur: I just dud
awallin: mdi.py is a short example which both uses the status buffer (to get the machine's location) and the command buffer (to issue mdi commands)
cradek: yes I think so, but I can't play it (no codec...)
jepler: ok, I'll look at that
anonimasu: I'm not 100% sure since I have not testing but assuming you get a "weld safe" analogue inductive sensor (which costs around 500-1000$) im not sure what kind of accuracy you could get
I forgot about it - what a terrible video :-)
cradek: yes that is your video - we need one threading at 60ipm ;)
cradek: remember what codec it was compressed with?
anonimasu: You need an inductive sensor even though you have that THC btw, the inductive sensor is used for the inital height sensing before striking the arc
Dallur: all sensors are like that..
Selected video codec: [ffodivx] vfm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg MPEG-4)
atleast the ones in my catalog..
Dallur: and much cheaper..
awallin: it's mpeg4 based
1kV emc protection..
lerneaen_hydra: so quicktime would play it?
probably SP, so that would make it playable with a divx/xvid player
anonimasu: 1kv is only 1000v, HF is 20-30 kV !
skunkworks: it looks like it's threading pretty fast actually
hmm, I'm not sure if they ship with that codec
cradek: it takes a lot of passes though
and you can't really see the threads ;)
yes, focus would have been nice
lerneaen_hydra: you can see the deflection already - it can't cut any heavier
anonimasu: yup, at least with Thermal Dynamics
cradek: that's true
need to cut larger bar, or use a tailstock
it's easy to forget that it's diameter^3
it was actually walking up over the tool - you can hear it
I think this is just under 60ipm - compare the threading pass with the jog, which is 60
any idea where to get the codec for that?
anonimasu: it's nasty, isolating all the circuits is a real pain, and don't even dream about using any unshielded cables for motors or any other part
awallin: what platform?
awallin: comes with mplayer
ace mega codecs always works
ok, I'll try that
took me a bit to find the codec to run on xp media player.
anonimasu: you can get plasma torches that don't need HF though
awallin: ack ack ack
I had installed some codec pack and it worked finally. (but it was worth the work)
codec packs != good
bad bad bad
I wish it were focused, darnit.
lerneaen_hydra: works for me
you get lots of nastyness where one tries to take preceedance over the other
alex_joni: here is the mazak video at 300 kbps, would you put it on linuxcnc.org? http://el-servo.physics.helsinki.fi/personal/awallin/mazak_300kbps.avi
ffdshow on the other hand... :)
is about 5 Mb
[14:56:34] <lerneaen_hydra> http://www.free-codecs.com/download_soft.php?d=2719&s=50
[14:57:24] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/ACEMCP603PRO.exe
alex_joni: nice, I get about 800 kbps to your server!
* lerneaen_hydra fights with alex_joni
awallin: I get about 7MB/sec from here :D
* lerneaen_hydra is impaled by a 5mm endmill
'tis but a flesh wound!
Anyone know of a good source for L298 or an alternative (in the uk)?
(check if digikey and/or mouser are available in the UK too)
Yep been there £2.50 each not a bad price but minium order of £20
oh, I see
alex_joni: great, you are quick!
check digikey/mouser then
I'm not sure if they ship to the UK without prohibitive shipping though
re enncoders: if you use mencoder, then use thier bundles http://www.mplayerhq.hu/MPlayer/releases/codecs/
Ill have a look
paragon36: doesn't farnell have them?
Dallur: well, my plasma does pilot arc start..
anonimasu: still.. there's HF for the pilot
alex_joni: question is _if_ it's bad..
ACE doesn't help either, still can't play cradeks threading video
well, im buying a thc. plug and pray..
anonimasu: what kind of plasma do you have ?
a saf zip 3.0
anonimasu: ok, I got a list I have been making at home which lists all plasma units and respective torches
awallin: which app are you using to play the file?
anonimasu: I can check what kind of torch is on your machine
lerneaen_hydra: either windows media player, or divx player
hmm, I'm not sure if they look in the VFW library
anonimasu: and see what kind of HF is required if any, sometimes you can just disconnect the HF or turn it off for machine applications
can't someone just re-code it into something generic, like divx ?
could you test with say http://sourceforge.net/projects/guliverkli/
<-- that app?
awallin: it is divx
I'm not sure what the fourCC code is, but the codec is definetly from the divx family
anonimasu: but that means you have to dip your torch really close to the work piece when striking the arc, which will increase the chances of blowing material up into the torch and decrease tip life considerably
lerneaen_hydra: so if you open it in virtualdub, could you easily recode it?
lol, first couple of bytes: [= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer
you'l get a quality kiss though
lerneaen_hydra: don't screw up the focus! haha
cradek: oh shush, you
* alex_joni heads home
it's an embarassing video anyway
awallin: I can reecode the movie if you want
lerneaen_hydra: that would be great!
Dallur: well, with a thc controller it's a non issue..
Dallur: yeah please do that
it's a hand torch..
lerneaen_hydra: use some "standard" divx settings, and I'm sure I'll be able to see it
I'll just take bogstandard mpeg4 SP and mp3 audio
awallin: have you got a server?
bahh swedes are taking over the world, first Ikea, Volvo, then they sneak in things like Abba, before you know it we are doomed
lerneaen_hydra: not one that you can log into...
our secret plan
awallin: ok, I'll upload it to mine
oh, but we still got real Finnish products like Nokia and Linux...
awallin: you guys got Nokia boots when you were young ?
awallin: im thinking those will be high fashion wear in 10 years time :D
Dallur: sure, black ones. they still make them, but it's another company than the mobile phone maker
awallin: hmm thought they were the same but got split up ?
Dallur: yes you are right, but the split might have been 20 years ago
awallin: just a sec
they were making cables, fiber optic cables, car tyres, boots etc from rubber
lerneaen_hydra: standing by...
Dallur: you got any videos of your machine ?
awallin: yup, just a sec
awallin: most are not plasma related, but other silly stuff I have done
Dallur: is the lathe also emc controlled?
awallin: nope, it's just manual and the work involved in converting it is just to much
awallin: although I bet it would be fun, to many hobbies to little time
Dallur: so there's just one vide of actual plasma cutting ?
awallin: don't know, might be, I have not uploaded anything in a while, and I don't think any of them include the THC
lerneaen_hydra: how's the re encoding going?
well, it's done
I'm adding support for .avi in my webserver
so I can upload it
looks like I'm going to have to reboot it
just a few more moments
now I've borked my webserver
that wasn't so smart of me
thanks, downlaoding now...
should be 80-ish
yep, something around 80
lerneaen_hydra: er... it was not the mazak I was having trouble with, it was cradek's threading.avi
I'll recode that one too ;)
strange - they both say mpeg4 for me
cradek: I get sound in your video, but no picture
the threading file seems to have minor corruption
in the index file
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/comp.g:
When a pin or parameter does not have documentation, use the .TQ macro to
typeset it closer to the previous item, instead of leaving a space. This
makes the result nicer when one documentation string applies to several
items (e.g., din-0 and din-0-not)
that may be why awallin is having touble opening it
I don't get any complaints about that: cff4956895a2984931ee55cedbbefb3d threading.avi
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_servo.comp: documentation improvements: mention which physical pin is associated with each set of HAL pins
my video editing app complained about it
[15:37:08] <lerneaen_hydra> http://lerneaenhydra.shacknet.nu/images/files_temp/threadingnew.avi
what was mpeg4 SP and pcm audio
lerneaen_hydra: will your server be up for a while?
I would hope so
I'm not sure I can keep that file there forever, I'd want to move it to a different location if so
lerneaen_hydra: if you move it, could you also change http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Videos
alex_joni might put it on linuxcnc.org later also
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_servo.comp: further formatting improvements
jepler: what is comp.g ?
awallin: that may be good, I'm a bit starved by bandwidth to my server
awallin: comp.g is source for the 'comp' preprocessor. http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/hal/comp/index.html
"comp: a tool for creating HAL modules"
awallin: in the file comp.pg the top part is a grammar written in the "yapps" language, and the rest is Python
comp reads a ".comp file" and outputs C source code
er, "the file comp.g"
jepler: thanks for the explanation
awallin, anonimasu, other borkborkbork people: you'll like this! www.pungkuk.com
can i web browse emc2-head on cvs? how?
[15:53:39] <SWPadnos> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/
Dallur: I just did some cuts..
Dallur: thc dosent seem to be important.
SWPadnos: I think that isnt head or it's stale (weeks old) I was looking for recent (days old) commits
Dallur: maybe to get a super good edge..
Dallur: but even though we cut 30mm iron it didnt seem to matter that much
anonimasu: hmm that would be very different from what I experienced
tomp: it does show my latest pyvcp update, 19hours ago
[15:59:34] <awallin> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2
anonimasu: I mainly had problems with very thin material (sub mm) when it warped
anonimasu: but in any case you will need to rig up some sort of amp meter to detect if the torch is on (unless your machines has an ARC OK signal out)
* lerneaen_hydra gasp
awallin and anonimasu didn't have any reaction to the URL
awallin: weird. for me it shows 4days on pyvcp.py http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/hal/user_comps/
yesterdays work was here: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/lib/python/
awallin: yes, it'
s there, dunno why it wasn't over in the other place... thanks
uh... python src in lib? i didnt think to look there, but yes, python files (modules) are like libraries
Dallur: yeah, that's to be expected..
Dallur: we will cut 10mm stuff
anonimasu: I started off building the whole thing thinking that I could do without a THC, I did several cuts and tried things and in the end I gave up, the arc just wasn't stable enough for me in the long run
anonimasu: but if it works for you without the THC, and if the cut quality does not need to very excellent I would not bother with the THC
plus some of the material that you will cut will warp
anonimasu: what kind of standoff are you using ?
Dallur: hm, what kind of machine are you using?
Dallur: we cut free handed..
varying the height..
re pungkuk, they make good wire
anonimasu: im using a Thermal Dynamics Signature PAK 1000XR
this machine isnt too old..
Dallur: we will see about it :)
anonimasu: my config isn't that well tested in any case so you might be better off converting to THC in a couple of months when I have tested everything and such
Dallur: any reason why you're going for a bermuda rig rather than something else?
say luff or junk rig
anyone know what this vitec chip is on the 7i37 boards? it seems to be on the output-from-pc side. package says "14Z3203". vitec has a transformer with the prefix "14Z" but a transformer alone doesn't make much sense to me
I think it's a 1:2:2 transformer to convert 5V to +- 10V
lernaen_hydra: pointing performance is the main reason
oh wait - that's a different one :)
Dallur: what are you going to use her for, recreational sailing or competitions?
lernaen_hydra: If I had to choose another rig due to handing concerns I would probably go with a Gaff rig, but even the gaff has more weight up high and not as good pointing
lernaen_hydra: long distance crusing (liveaboard)
hmm, I see
lernaen_hydra: but I plan on doing plenty of sailing the wrong way around (east to west) so pointing is important :D
it just seems to me that a bermuda rig is a real pita to run
lernaen_hydra: sail closer to the wind direction (more into the wind)
that makes things a lot more difficult
lernaen_hydra: I'm going with furling for both front sails and in boom for the main
lernaen_hydra: everything can be done from the cockpit singlehanded
winches or blocks?
lernaen_hydra: winches, impossible to use blocks with this size sails
lernaen_hydra: and rope clutches for everything
my father is currently adding (three) junk rigs to a previously built boat
and so far everything is controllable with just blocks and hand power
lernaen_hydra: that's the great thing with a junk rig, and this is the traditional reason for having many sails
lernaen_hydra: but when it comes to performance a sloop is always going to win, but for most cruisers they spend 50 days at anchor and 3 sailing, performance really isn't an issue then
this is more slow-plodding than anything else
lernaen_hydra: and the scary fact regarding the sailing time is that about 40-50% is done with the engine
and the lack of a real keel makes things even more difficult
lernaen_hydra: people are to impatient, they always have deadlines and then they turn on the engine
masts are telescoping, so you can reach the top when they're retracted with a short ladder or if you stand on the struts
lernaen_hydra: that's a liveaboard if I ever seen one :)
indeed it is :)
quite a few years too :)
lernaen_hydra: any special rationale for going with steel ?
oh, it's aluminum
lerneaen_hydra: ohh nice
I don't recall the thickness of the stringers or bulkheads
(I didn't build it, my father did)
lerneaen_hydra: feels like a shame to paint it though
yeah, well the bottom had to be painted anyway
we're going to repaint it soon hopefully
lerneaen_hydra: yup, that's the problem, but I have seen some remarkable looking alu boats which clear topsides
the bottompaint is practially gone and some bits of the deck paint are chipping off (probably bad primer)
lerneaen_hydra: sandblast to bare white and epoxy or ?
IIRC it was only primed and epoxied
I don't remember that well as I was quite young then
8-9 or so
lerneaen_hydra: tough to find good antifouling in the EU now, tritin is outlawed and copper will make your alu boat disappear very fast :P
yeah, fortunately we have a can from the US ;)
enough for a few coats at least
lerneaen_hydra: nice, although from what I understood last year it was possible to get special permits for aluminum vessels
oh? that would be very nice
lerneaen_hydra: some EU directive somewhere had a clause that if you had a alu boat you could still use tritin as long as ...
maybe I can get a hold of new cans when it has to be repainted again
lerneaen_hydra: at least worth checking it
lerneaen_hydra: a couple of months ago thought I had a really nice conversation with a guy from Hempel (they make a lot of antifouling) and he told me that the new breed of nano scale smooth paint is really coming into it's own
Dallur: oh, that's way too late..
Dallur: in 3 months I'll have all my parts.. cut..
anonimasu: ohh :P
5 weeks that is..
Dallur: that sounds very plausible
Dallur: wondered why im going for prefab raild and stuff?
lerneaen_hydra: right now he told me that they aren't recommending it for anything that goes slower than 10 knots
anonimasu: Are you wondering or do I wonder ? :D
oh, hopefully they'll manage to make one for more slow-going vessels
youy might be..
she only does 7 knots or so
lerneaen_hydra: he told me that in the next 10 years this sort of paint will start popping up in the recreational boating as the speed requirement comes down
lerneaen_hydra: but it's way better because it can last up to 8 years! and has less drag !
smoother surface too?
lerneaen_hydra: yup, it's a bit like teflon, imagine coating the bottom of your boat with high grade teflon :P
do you know if it is hydrophobic?
lerneaen_hydra: not sure but I would expect it to be
lerneaen_hydra: that would be one of the best ways to keep marine life off a surface
that would rock :D
bbl, need to pick up a couple of things and head home
Dallur: got net at home?
would be nice for speedboats too, once you get an air bubble underneath it might "live" longer
anonimasu: yup :D
Hello Chaps... I now this is off topic but I thought I ask just the same. Does anyone know how to add a custom icon to be used in the top panel like for instance the the small EMC icon? I added a gif of eagle (schematic) in /usr/share/pixmaps but when I browse this with create launcher it does not appear!
It may have to be a ".png" file, not ".gif"
when installing emc2, it doesn't look like we take any action besides placing the .png file in /usr/share/pixmaps
Yes that may explain it ... most of them are! Ill have to convert it can the gimp convert gifs to png's?
'convert icon.gif icon.png'
yes, it can -- load the image, "save as", and use a .png extension
or install the 'imagemagick' package and use the commandline cradek just gave
OK thanks Chaps!
FYI The gif did work but I had to restart the 'add to panel' completly for it to see it.
Off Home catch you later!
lerman_______ is now known as lerman
I wonder if the way the 1A outputs on the 7i37 work is something like this: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/isol.png
there are 2 NORs available before the isolation; an R, a C, an unidentified SOT-23 device (my diode), and a power transistor after isolation
damn. I can't find my mangifying glass
I just take off my glasses. seems to work OK.
maybe I should put some on
I think that SOT-23 device is a diode - I don't see any connection on the third leg
yes I didn't see one either
unless it's underneath the part
I guess it is a 4-layer board, isn't it...
does anyone know the resolution of the 5i20 dac?
(in the default config)
lerneaen_hydra: the pwm is 10-bit
is there any ADC in it?
lerneaen_hydra: nope, it's all digital
ok, since there are so many inputs I guess you could use some for an ADC if you wanted to
you could add a parallel or serial ADC, but you'd need to change the FPGA config (or write a dumb IO HAL driver)
nobody found more than those four emc videos ?
awallin: I'm hoping to make some within a week or so
hopefully one video with normal cuts, radii, and (multiple-started) threading
lerneaen_hydra: sounds interesting, let us know when you have something
hey - it is 4 layer. I didn't see that the planes are internal
SWPadnos: maybe there should be a developer wish list for the mesa firmware options :)
there's a wiki ... :)
like step gererator - up/down option for the servo setup..
I was thinking of starting that - would that be ok?
OK by me. I can delete it if I don't like it ;)
I just had vigi chili from a can.. Eww
wow "comp" is super neato
skunkworks: what other features would you like on the m5i20?
realtime image processing for part orientation? too much to ask? :P
you wouldnt even have to clamp it
awallin: right now all I really need is an up/down drive output for directly running an h-bridge. It is setup currently to run pwm+direction.
(not that I couldn't change that with a few logic chips.
skunkworks: ok, did you have your own H-bridge design ? so you drive two transistors with one pwm signal (up) and two transistors with the other pwm signal (down) ?
the inmarsat guy again ;)
awallin: yes.. in effect. I am usning 2 ir2111 half bridge drive ic's to drive 4 mosfets.
awallin: @home I can make my own reverse dns :D
awallin: take this with a grain of salt.. the componants are not correct.. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/eaglesch.JPG
and it has some mistakes in it - now that I look at it :)
did you already get to try it?
[18:56:39] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/sinks.JPG
for tiny to220 parts
they are not to220
maybe they're not to220 parts
can you drive it with something else while you are waiting for the new m5i20 configs?
RIght now I am driving it with the printer port. Next will be the pluto.
oh, you got both the pluto and a mesa card? for two machines, or do you just collect cnc hardware for fun? ;)
work the bugs out with the pluto - cheap if there is an oops. then switch over to the mesa board.
you can never have too much sutff
we have a bunch of machines we can convert to newer cnc controls
it will all get used. This is my first time playing with servos - really excited.
this is what the mesa board is going to be used for http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSCCurrent.JPG
skunkworks: wow, you sure have a lot of machines
some people have boats
fenn: here's a robot 'feeling' an object into a pocket (instead of using visual feedback it uses force sensing ) http://www.cs.tu-bs.de/rob/download/res/blockbothdivx.avi
fenn: yeah I think 'comp' really takes the pain out of writing a new realtime component -- you can get right to the important stuff
tomp: hmm, cool
fenn: you might be interested in this too: http://axis.unpy.net/01163779208
jepler: the emc2 innovations come too fast :( tt2comp is a soft PEEL dangit! i can chuck my ICT books & programmers
I never worked with hardware PALs but I did read about them in Art of Electronics sime time ago
sure if you dont mind being limited to 100khz or so
anyone recall if there was an eagle-to-gcode app somewhere?
you need drill.cfg, singlesided.gpar, and gcode.ulp
the first two files must be customized for your machine
* lerneaen_hydra hasn't done eagle
but I assume they're plugins of some kind?
in the eagle board editor, you hit the button marked "ulp" and then select gcode.ulp from the file browser
answer some prompts, and it writes a .ngc file
some day I should write up a page of instructions
ulp is a scripting languge
hmm.. i guess i dont think in truth tables
you might also want this, which optimizes (reduces the distance of G0 moves) in gcode.ulp's output: http://axis.unpy.net/downloads/01103508580
fenn: me either really, but tt2comp was fun to write anyway
does that program automagically do the "use endmill for roughing, and V bit for fine stuff, finally drill holes" stuff?
it also uses an endmill to cut out the board, and makes holes bigger than your end-mill diameter with that tool and a helical cut
I'm not following you...
lol... "<lerneaen_hydra> I'm not touching you..."
which part -- the helical cut hole?
Jymmmm: ... wtf?
jepler: the "makes holes bigger than your end-mill diameter with that tool and a helical cut"
are the PCB milling chips as bad as using abrasives on a mill?
lerneaen_hydra: When you said not following, it immediately remined me of two lil kids one putting a finger close to sibling and then saying "I'm not touching you"
lerneaen_hydra: if you have a 1/16" end-mill and a .130" hole in your eagle board, gcode.ulp will make that hole with the end-mill
(there are .130" hole on certain thru-hole db-25 and db-9 connectors)
how long do the endmills tend to last? long enough?
if cradek were here he'd say they last until I break them
ok, long enough
If I were cradek, I'd start asking for a deposit
if you have carbide tooling and don't brake them they will last ok. but the tooling is not cheap, 10-20eur per bit
that bad eh
yes you have to use the right tooling
check amateur radio flea markets etc
fenn be careful about those... most are drill bits and really used
i got a box of assorted carbide drills and endmills from harbor freight for $6.50, havent used them yet really tho
fenn % of endmills in the box?
fenn: how did you like the box of copper clad boards you got?
er.. i havent used those either
about all i can say about them is they make my hands itchy when i pick them up
where they supposed to be a cirtain oz?
that didn't look right either ;)
I'm certain it's right
unless it's: cretin
what do you call people that can't code, but can read some code and generally know how the subsystem works?
ie enduser that's not a monkey
I prefer "future contributor"
I like sysadmin
some sort of hydra?
argh everything in this picture is focused except the drill bits
fenn: perfect ;)
NaM not a monkey :)
that's about right
or even nacm
not a complete muppet
I'm terrified of muppets
i'm going home now, maybe back later, bye
awallin:eugenics: I just sent you guys the schematics for basic THC boards :D
wait, hmm it was anonimasu that was asking for the schematics (bonk)
lerneaen_hydra: bonk = I hit myself on the head to punish myself for my own stupidity
Dallur: did you find the schematic?
anonimasu: yup, just mailed it like 2 min ago
did you check the torch diagram?
anonimasu: looking now, it's a pretty big list :P
I'll be back in a bit need to go lock the outside gate at work..
anonimasu: I don't have the torch make for the ZIP 3.0 but I do have for 2.0 4.0 and 5.0
Jymmmm is now known as Jymmm
Rugludallur: I know, I jsut had to ;)
anonimasu: got any idea which torch is on your machine ?
anonimasu: Z 3.0 ?
anonimasu: it is www.saf-airliquide.com/fr/prod_mater/ISEE/TORCHES/saf_plasma_air/Z2-0%20Z3-0.pdf
haha ... sweet
[20:39:32] <eholmgren> http://techref.massmind.org/techref/pcb/etch/directinkjetresist.htm
modded printer that you can feed copper clad directly into for photoresist
nah what you need is un-clad FR4 boards and an "ink" with suspended copper particles
that's cool ;)
print, dry, drill, and solder
the details of this "copper ink" are left as an exercise
jepler: how about nano scale copper particles suspended in a gallium-indium solution ?
Rugludallur: ok but what about the verteron emissions from the trilithium matrix?
jepler: the trilition matrix would only be used during the warm up sequence, not during the actual printing
jepler: but for real you could actually use a gallium-indium solution in a printer cartridge, you would have to keep the cartridge at a temp. or about 80°C and the board would not withstand temps above that though
I wonder if you could use a laser printer-type mechanism to a better effect
with some mettalic powder
and a laser to sinter it would be a 3d printer
the fusing zone is around 170degrees
(give a z)
lerneaen_hydra: bet it would suck too much heat (the copper underneath)
so it wouldn't harden
alex_joni: huh? just bare fiberglass and metal powder to fuse
somehow I doubt you can do that at 170 degrees
just expand on that tech to get you higher temps
at some point it gets problematic/expensive :)
industrial PCB's are still done by gluing a copper, then etching the extra away.. right?
I'm not sure actually
they probably really want to not have to etch
maybe fill cartridge with etch, not resist? print & wash untill bare
at that point - milling I am sure would be faster ;)
awallin: about Big Fonts for DRO... since the char set is small (0-9 +/-) maybe use scalable grfx not font ?
tomp: why wouldn't you be able to scale the font? it is vector based after all
I'm sure a "7-segment" feature request can't be far behind
didnt know that, any font or just ttf?
tomp: pretty much all fonts
nixie tube :)
there are a few raster fonts
afaik all ttf are vector
lerneaen_hydra: there seems to be a bug in Tk which makes certain fonts (those available as bitmap fonts, maybe) not display beyond a certain pixel size
hmm, sounds like a bug in Tk more than anything else
i meant that if a font size is specified, and the window/widget zoomed, then the text is same size, while a grafic might scale with the window
that's more a gui-toolset thing more than the font's construction
The coming year is likely to present challenges; these trials are when your true character will show. Trusted friends can provide assistance in particularly pressing situations. Make use of the skills you have to compensate for ones you lack. Your reputation in the future depends on your honesty and integrity this year. Monetary investments will prove risky; inform yourself as much as possible. On the positive side, your chances of winning th
ran out of room on the fortune cookie paper strip
jymmm: 7 roughing endmills 9 finish endmills 34 drill bits
sorry i couldnt get it in focus
that's the "micro bit grab bag"
every time I do that it crosses my mind that having "paste" and "open URL" on the same button is a bad idea
when someone says something and scrolls the URL I was aiming for
jepler: can you tell me about how the openGL window is done with AXIS/Tkinter ?
I'd like to try out some geometry stuff, and need a way to draw things
awallin: OpenGL drawing happens within a Togl widget using the functions defined in the 'minigl' module
is Togl included in the standard Tkinter?
no but it's included with emc2
hmm, that's in C, is there a python only solution where I can get an opengl tkinter widget?
let me see if I can cook up a Python-only example, using the minigl and OpenGLTk modules that are included in emc2
thanks for the help
I was able to get an opengl view using pyopengl, but I don't think that was a normal Tkinter window
now I'm in ubuntu...
the example I'm looking at uses glutCreateWindow()
but I bet that's not a Tkinter window
no it's not
[22:06:45] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/minigldemo.py
yep, that works, thanks!
are rs274 and minigl simple python files that I can move to a machine which doesn't have emc installed?
yay.. the impossible happened
I found a specific CD from 6 years ago
awallin: rs274/OpenGLTk.py is a simple python file; minigl.so is a compiled module
where is minigl needed ?
those look exactly like the glu/glut commands...
awallin: minigl is a wrapper around the set of OpenGL calls I needed in axis
awallin: at the time I started writing axis, it was hard to get a working python2.x-opengl package on many of the systems people were using (e.g., redhat 9 and bdi-live)
so I copied togl (the Tk opengl widget) into axis and wrote my own wrappers for the other parts of opengl I wanted
(oh, and when python2.x-opengl worked, it had a terrible memory leak that axis triggered)
ok, I would have thought opengl in a tkinter window is possible without any special things... googling for that now
"PyOpenGL is interoperable with a large number of external GUI libraries for Python including (Tkinter, wxPython, FxPy, PyGame, and Qt)."
[22:17:26] <awalli1> http://pyopengl.sourceforge.net/
yes that's the library that was buggy and hard to compile, 2 years ago
the debian/ubuntu package name for it is python2.x-opengl
I have that installed, and the demos work, but I'm not sure it creates a Tkinter widget/window
awallin: glutCreateWindow() doesn't create a Tkinter window
that's what I thought
awallin: look aroundin pyopengl for a module with a name like 'Togl' -- that's the same widget as you get in rs274.OpenGLTk.Togl
It might be called OpenGL.Tk.Togl for all I know
from a random mailing list: "Togl refuses to compile with the version of Tk distributed with Python 2.3 and above (it should compile for 2.2, though I haven't checked that in a while), and so it's being dropped from PyOpenGL. "
it works just fine, axis is living proof of that fact
but it's true that something in the "official version" didn't work, I don't recall exactly what
re Togl: http://pyopengl.sourceforge.net/ctypes/using.html
then look for tkinter (legacy gui)
maybe you dont need Togl to get what you want
if you're writing software to work with emc2, just use rs274.OpenGLTK and minigl
if you need a function that is not yet implemented in mingl, holler and I'll add it
if you want to test somewhere else, isolate your "draw" function nicely and you can port it to OpenGLTk/minigl easily
ok, this would not be directly emc2 related, more of a cad/cam test thing
hmm, where would <Python>/Lib/site-packages/OpenGL/Demo/dek/texturesurf.py be located ?
oh damn, I guess I'll us wxPython...
heh.. anyone needs Caldera OpenLinux 2.3 ?
the black cds
hmm.. I also have some SuSE 6.3
kernel 2.2.13 :)
I just threw away one of my first slackware install floppies...
good night all