#emc | Logs for 2006-12-21

[00:20:01] <wb9mjn> Oooh...found a neat tslot tooling site....probably not in the USA though...wixroyd...
[00:20:43] <anonimasu> tslot tooling?
[00:20:50] <anonimasu> clamps and stuff?
[00:21:57] <wb9mjn> yep....
[00:22:05] <wb9mjn> I have a DIN tslot table on my machine...
[00:22:08] <wb9mjn> 12 mm ...
[00:22:37] <wb9mjn> Ebay find...probably a $750 table, if not more, for a fraction....
[00:23:15] <wb9mjn> Had it EDM'd for the through holes to bolt it to the lintech tables about a year ago...EDM work cost as much
[00:23:19] <wb9mjn> as the table, hi...
[00:24:00] <wb9mjn> J.W. Winco has the hardware, but no good low-profile clamps and such...
[00:24:07] <wb9mjn> This place has it all...
[00:25:05] <anonimasu> hm..
[00:25:10] <anonimasu> vertex has it all..
[00:25:14] <anonimasu> probably..
[00:25:38] <wb9mjn> let me go look at them then...
[00:28:28] <wb9mjn> do not see any tslot mount, low profile clamps...just the usual vices...
[00:29:25] <wb9mjn> I am running out of Z quick...so the idea is to use the table as the vice...
[00:30:05] <wb9mjn> Since its very high quality, and the european modular stuff fits right in...If I can find a source on this side of the
[00:30:06] <wb9mjn> pond...
[00:34:28] <anonimasu> eh?
[00:34:29] <anonimasu> vices`?
[00:34:35] <anonimasu> I bought a kit off the,.
[00:34:37] <anonimasu> them..
[00:35:26] <anonimasu> :)
[00:35:27] <wb9mjn> oops...vise...
[00:35:50] <anonimasu> but I cant remember if they have a homepage..
[00:36:48] <wb9mjn> who ?
[00:36:53] <anonimasu> vertex..
[00:37:00] <anonimasu> they make lots of stuff..
[00:37:13] <anonimasu> tooling/rotary tables/toolchangers/drawbars and stuff..
[00:37:34] <wb9mjn> vertex?
[00:37:59] <anonimasu> yeah
[00:38:02] <wb9mjn> Vertex does not have what I am looking for.....
[00:38:19] <anonimasu> what is it you are looking for?
[00:38:20] <wb9mjn> Found their catalog on the internet....under a distrutor website...
[00:38:37] <wb9mjn> 12 mm DIN tslot clamping stuff....
[00:38:56] <wb9mjn> Wixroyd apparently has it all, but they are in England...
[00:39:20] <anonimasu> I think that's what I have..
[00:39:27] <anonimasu> but im not sure..
[00:39:34] <skunkworks> yes _ I am wireless on ubuntu... finally :)
[00:39:34] <wb9mjn> Where are you located ?
[00:39:43] <anonimasu> north sweden..
[00:39:47] <wb9mjn> Ok....
[00:40:18] <wb9mjn> So, doing an EU cross border purchase is no big thing, right ?
[00:40:30] <wb9mjn> Just send em the money, and in a few days its there...
[00:40:37] <anonimasu> dunno..
[00:40:42] <anonimasu> I have a place that sells that kind of stuff..
[00:41:10] <wb9mjn> All the places here do not sell the metric sizes....Teco is what they sell, and its for bridgeports...
[00:41:22] <wb9mjn> 5/8 slot...etc...
[00:41:42] <anonimasu> :/
[00:42:06] <wb9mjn> Teco does not even have metric in their catalog..online...
[00:42:34] <anonimasu> http://www.ss-maskin.com/PDF/sp.jpg
[00:42:46] <wb9mjn> None of the more elegant tslot clamping stuff anyway, just the Tnuts, studs, and step bars....
[00:42:55] <anonimasu> elegant?
[00:43:08] <anonimasu> you mean thoose things with levers you clamp to the table?
[00:43:13] <anonimasu> or that kind?
[00:43:25] <anonimasu> vertex has them.. if you can find a dealer..
[00:43:35] <wb9mjn> Well, kinda like a tool-maker vice (suburban) only it bolts to the t-slot...
[00:44:10] <wb9mjn> Oooh --- look at that...930 kroners....
[00:44:15] <anonimasu> 93 eur..
[00:44:19] <wb9mjn> Oh..
[00:44:31] <wb9mjn> says 930...
[00:44:43] <anonimasu> yeah, but if you divide by /10 and you get euro..
[00:44:47] <wb9mjn> Can t get that stuff here....
[00:44:49] <anonimasu> and by /8 and you get dollars..
[00:45:06] <wb9mjn> in metric...
[00:45:51] <anonimasu> hm, that sucks.
[00:46:21] <wb9mjn> Can get the tnuts, and studs individually....JW Winco in Wisconsin...
[00:46:51] <wb9mjn> Besides, I want to get the side/down thrust clamps that go right into the tslots...various designs...
[00:47:12] <wb9mjn> Keep the Z low, and avoid hitting it the clamps with the tool...They also have the clamps that hold
[00:47:19] <wb9mjn> plates up in the air a little...
[00:47:42] <wb9mjn> so you can drill through holes...
[00:48:31] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[00:49:18] <wb9mjn> anyway....I did find the hole plugs to keep all the chips out of the 12 mm by 1.5 hole at Winco...
[00:49:38] <anonimasu> hm.. I need stuff to cover my slota..
[00:49:39] <anonimasu> slots..
[00:49:47] <anonimasu> chips are a damn mess
[00:49:48] <anonimasu> :)
[00:50:01] <wb9mjn> Yea, they have those at the Wexroyd place ...for DIN slots...
[00:50:12] <anonimasu> I'll just machine them out of some plate :)
[00:51:21] <anonimasu> I dunno if my retailer stocks that kind of stuff
[00:52:06] <anonimasu> 321hm
[00:52:17] <anonimasu> *graps python for the laptop*
[00:52:30] <wb9mjn> http://www.wixroyd.com/products/pdf/w__214-t-slot-covers.pdf
[00:52:55] <anonimasu> what time is it there?
[00:52:57] <anonimasu> usa?
[00:53:11] <anonimasu> nice
[00:53:12] <wb9mjn> Its just before 7 pm in central time...chicagoland...
[00:53:39] <anonimasu> ok
[00:53:46] <anonimasu> I'm pondering when I can call geckodrive
[00:55:13] <wb9mjn> They are west coast...probably just closed...try tomorow, 2 hours earlier...
[00:55:30] <anonimasu> I'll mail them..
[00:55:58] <wb9mjn> West coast is two hours behind central time, its 5 pm there now...
[00:57:33] <wb9mjn> Might not be open on friday...
[00:58:37] <anonimasu> I dont care, my order's about a month late now :)
[00:58:49] <anonimasu> I dropped a mail and we will see what happens..
[00:59:01] <anonimasu> though I didnt have a order number, I'll have to mail them it tomorrow when im at work
[00:59:22] <anonimasu> cant be that many buyers from sweden anyway..
[01:00:35] <wb9mjn> Might be a few...they make allot of those things...
[01:07:28] <ejholmgren> borgy borgy
[01:07:51] <robin_sz> anonimasu, dont foret to order some CE mark stickers too ;)
[01:08:45] <ejholmgren> unauthorized stepper drives, oh noes!
[01:11:20] <anonimasu> robin_sz: forget?
[01:11:34] <anonimasu> robin_sz: for the geckogs?
[01:11:36] <anonimasu> geckos?
[01:11:37] <anonimasu> heh
[01:19:04] <anonimasu> ,night..
[03:00:44] <skunkworks> quiet
[03:05:49] <skunkworks> as if people have a life
[03:20:26] <jepler> http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/11/25
[03:22:56] <skunkworks> :)
[03:24:28] <skunkworks> jepler: got my wireless card working in dapper. Now I just need to get my touch pad working satisfactory. it is way to sensitive (mainly the double click)
[03:27:02] <jepler> skunkworks: I like mine just fine with the defaults -- I'm not sure what you have to do to change it
[03:27:42] <skunkworks> I have found some info on it. Just as everthing else - doesn't quite fit my situation :)
[03:54:13] <skunkworks> ok time for bed - night
[03:56:42] <ejholmgren> night
[04:04:39] <tomp> ubuntu satanic edition: the distro of the beast http://parker1.co.uk/satanic/about/
[04:05:04] <tomp> can you play a cd backwards?
[04:09:14] <ejholmgren> I always thought there was something off about ubuntu
[04:09:19] <ejholmgren> ;)
[04:18:57] <tomp> bbc sez it will make some movies available to bit-torrent sharing, Dr. Who, Red Dwarf, Fawlty Towers... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6194929.stm
[04:20:38] <tomp> no, not to bittorrent, but to a site the maker's of bittorent created "Zudeo"
[04:40:06] <tomp> this peer to peer stuff looks pretty vulnerable... i gotta pass
[06:54:15] <A-L-P-H-A> chumpp.
[08:45:36] <anonimasu> mornin
[08:46:17] <anonimasu> I hope to get a spindle load meter today :)
[08:52:41] <alex_joni> morning.. *yawn*
[08:56:52] <anonimasu> morning
[11:09:11] <Guest503> heloo
[11:10:15] <Guest503> To some days I asked I eat to install emc in slack
[11:10:40] <Guest503> say to me for install kernel 2.6 in slack..
[11:10:43] <Guest503> and rtai
[11:10:56] <Guest503> i have install kernel 2.6
[11:11:00] <Guest503> but
[11:11:34] <Guest503> I did not obtain to install rtai
[11:11:57] <Guest503> they could help me?
[11:15:44] <rafa> heloo
[11:15:48] <rafa> pless
[11:16:00] <rafa> its possible install emc in slack?
[11:16:24] <alex_joni> rafa: yes, but not easily
[11:16:56] <rafa> it has some tutorial one?
[11:17:15] <rafa> joni..
[11:17:25] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?RtaiSteps
[11:17:54] <alex_joni> but it's not going to be something easy to do
[11:18:09] <rafa> in ubuntu a one kernel pre compiled
[11:18:12] <alex_joni> expect at least one week of work to get it right (if at all, depending on your kernel hacking skills)
[11:18:19] <rafa> kernel 2.6 magma
[11:18:21] <alex_joni> rafa: indeed, others have done that already
[11:20:16] <rafa> is hard?
[11:24:04] <rafa> joni
[11:24:13] <rafa> i have kernel 2.6
[11:24:21] <rafa> my kernel is 2.6.18
[11:24:44] <acemi> rtai and adeos has no patch for 2.6.18
[11:25:00] <acemi> there is for 2.6.17 and 2.6.19
[11:25:21] <alex_joni> that's odd
[11:25:58] <alex_joni> but it's correct
[11:26:10] <alex_joni> the 2.6.19 patch is 6 days old, so I would _not_ try that
[11:26:28] <rafa> no in 2.6.18?
[11:26:54] <rafa> joni i have 2 kernels
[11:27:09] <rafa> please one moment
[11:28:47] <rafa> my kernels is 2.6.18 and
[11:29:15] <alex_joni> acemi: oddly adeos doesn't have a patch either
[11:29:29] <alex_joni> rafa: either get 2.6.17, or patch 2.4.33
[11:29:44] <rafa> 2.4.33 is possible?
[11:30:14] <alex_joni> rafa: yes
[11:30:19] <alex_joni> get rtai-3.4
[11:30:24] <alex_joni> it has http://cvs.gna.org/cvsweb/magma/base/arch/i386/patches/hal-linux-2.4.33-i386-1.3-03.patch?cvsroot=rtai in it
[11:31:03] <rafa> please i go to download
[11:35:19] <rafa> joni ..
[11:36:00] <rafa> it could explain me as to install this?
[11:36:25] <rafa> no no
[11:36:35] <rafa> sory
[11:36:40] <rafa> its a patch
[11:36:49] <rafa> e knol to make
[11:38:49] <alex_joni> rafa: please ask about specific problems
[11:39:09] <alex_joni> rafa: the general way to do it is described in the wiki, and in the README and INSTALL inside the 3.4 rtai package
[11:39:57] <alex_joni> this should also help: https://www.rtai.org/index.php?module=documents&JAS_DocumentManager_op=downloadFile&JAS_File_id=46
[11:47:08] <rafa> I know
[11:47:14] <rafa> sory for question
[11:49:15] <rafa> it is to apply the patch ...
[11:49:25] <rafa> make menu config
[11:49:27] <rafa> make dep
[11:49:39] <rafa> make modules
[11:49:47] <rafa> make modules_install
[11:50:01] <rafa> correct?
[11:51:02] <alex_joni> something like that, depends on the kernel version
[11:51:15] <alex_joni> "menuconfig" not "menu config"
[11:51:29] <rafa> yes menuconfig
[11:51:40] <alex_joni> old kerneles also need make bzImage if I remember it correctly
[11:51:49] <rafa> I deceived myself
[11:52:16] <rafa> yes mame bzImage
[11:52:25] <rafa> yes make bzImage
[11:53:09] <alex_joni> you also will probably need an initrd file
[11:53:14] <rafa> because it does not have packages for slack?
[11:54:50] <rafa> or rpms
[11:55:25] <rafa> slack and other distribuitions install rpm packages
[11:56:01] <alex_joni> I understood it's not easy to make rpm's for kernels
[11:56:22] <alex_joni> there are some rpm's for FC3 if you want to try those
[11:56:28] <alex_joni> but I'm not sure they would work
[11:56:30] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/rpm/
[11:59:01] <rafa> nobody tried this?
[11:59:10] <rafa> ins slacl?
[11:59:15] <rafa> ins slack?
[12:01:52] <alex_joni> not that I know
[12:02:06] <alex_joni> but I know there was some guy from italy that installed rtai on slack
[12:03:31] <alex_joni> <pier_gar> linux ker rtai 3.3
[12:03:38] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-08-24.txt
[12:05:38] <alex_joni> it seems in the end he got rid of slack, and installed ubuntu because of parport problems
[12:11:09] <rafa> alex
[12:11:15] <rafa> joni
[12:11:35] <rafa> please one question ins C programing
[12:11:47] <rafa> relatde to emc
[12:12:19] <rafa> I can ask?
[12:15:10] <alex_joni> sure
[13:28:20] <skunkworks> father just purchased a car lift from a local garage - boy will that be nice.
[13:30:52] <SWPadnos> sigh - if only I had the space ...
[13:31:46] <skunkworks> well it is going to requier pouring a bit of concrete - but not a big deal
[13:32:21] <SWPadnos> remember - concrete has no tensile strength
[13:33:16] <skunkworks> :) we are over-doers. my basement has rebar 1' on center. and mesh
[13:33:24] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:33:38] <skunkworks> drives my wife crazy ;)
[13:33:58] <SWPadnos> the overdoing, not the rebar, right?
[13:34:07] <SWPadnos> it would be weird for her to care about rebar ;)
[13:34:10] <skunkworks> right ;)
[13:34:28] <SWPadnos> my wife hates that as well
[13:34:41] <skunkworks> the rebar? ;)
[13:34:50] <SWPadnos> of course - she's like a female Magneto ;)
[13:35:00] <SWPadnos> "Magneta"
[13:35:03] <skunkworks> ohh sexy - cool
[13:35:17] <SWPadnos> but the flying belt gives her gas, so she doesn't do that much
[13:37:24] <skunkworks> oh - any update on the group buy? (how payments can be handled?) thanks for getting this going.
[13:37:52] <SWPadnos> no update. I emailed Pete W yesterday, and figured I wouldn't start with the calls until late today or tomorrow sometime ;)
[13:38:05] <skunkworks> sounds good.
[13:38:16] <SWPadnos> though Alex wants one now also, so only cradek seems to be holding out :)
[13:38:39] <skunkworks> pear pressure isn't helping?
[13:38:45] <SWPadnos> no pears here
[13:38:54] <SWPadnos> pier pressure? ;)
[13:39:10] <SWPadnos> pear pressure happens around middle age ...
[13:39:12] <skunkworks> peer - sorry ;)
[13:39:14] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:39:35] <SWPadnos> it hasn't helped yet, but now that I'm back in the states, we can turn it up a little
[13:39:56] <skunkworks> I wonder if he is covered in snow over there
[13:40:00] <SWPadnos> shielded ribbon cable is expensive
[13:40:23] <SWPadnos> like $2-$4/foot for 50-conductor
[13:40:33] <skunkworks> wow
[13:40:50] <skunkworks> time for tin-foil ;)
[13:41:08] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:41:59] <SWPadnos> it does make nice round cables though - ones that can be sealed in cable glands and the like
[13:42:13] <skunkworks> I bet
[13:42:47] <jepler> skunkworks: no, we only got rain
[13:42:51] <SWPadnos> better protection as well - got PVC / paper / braid / aluminum foil jacketing over the ribbon cable
[13:44:07] <skunkworks> jepler: raining hard here also (I would rather have snow)
[13:44:30] <SWPadnos> I guess that means we'll have terrible weather over the weekend
[13:45:16] <SWPadnos> ok, now that is cool
[13:45:42] <SWPadnos> I selected the table of mesa stuff from jmk's website, hit "paste" in OO calc, and it actually worked as I hoped it would
[14:03:40] <jepler> actually the rain's stopped now and it's just unnaturally warm and foggy out
[14:06:06] <skunkworks> raining pretty hard here.
[14:07:44] <skunkworks> only my driveway was slippery. the roads where fine.
[14:52:53] <SWPadnos> hmmm - I think the 7i30 and 7i32 are the same thing with different connectors
[14:57:15] <skunkworks> could be.
[14:57:24] <jtr> The boards do look quite similar. The manual for the 7i32 did mention 4 axis - probably a leftover from the 7i30 manual.
[14:57:44] <skunkworks> 4 h-bridges - means 2 stepper
[14:57:47] <SWPadnos> it looks like you use 2 PWM channels to directly set the current in the two coils of the stepper
[14:58:10] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, that means that you need to change PWM values very rapidly to get "steps"
[14:58:38] <SWPadnos> the pin descriptions are identical, with the exception of the board name change
[14:58:55] <SWPadnos> I guess that means I don't have to get a 7i32 then ;)
[15:08:46] <jepler> the board layouts shown in the pdfs are pretty different
[15:08:56] <jepler> nah maybe that's just the connectors
[15:10:43] <anonimasu> bbl...
[15:10:50] <anonimasu> time to see some hockey..
[15:10:57] <SWPadnos> heh - see you
[15:11:03] <jtr> I just noticed - looks like the partnos/descriptions of the two 7i39 versions are reversed on jmk's site
[15:11:15] <SWPadnos> oh - could be
[15:11:30] <SWPadnos> good thing nobody is buying one ;)
[15:13:27] <jtr> I was thinking about it - but you never know which version of BLDC motor will show up surplus.
[15:13:47] <SWPadnos> yeah. I was just looking on eBay - not many BLDC motors right now
[15:14:30] <jepler> wasn't that what etla was selling?
[15:14:32] <SWPadnos> I figured the LV would be good for one application I have - reasoning that low V / high I is more suited for low speed high torque applications
[15:14:35] <SWPadnos> yeah :(
[15:16:12] <jtr> Did Surplus Center sell out of theirs?
[15:16:21] <SWPadnos> very rapidly, I think
[15:16:26] <SWPadnos> somebody mentioned it on CCED
[15:25:42] <daniel_br> i'm testingt 2.1 branch, all is fine except Classicladder not saving a new clp file
[15:26:08] <SWPadnos> are you running one of the sample configs, or have you copied a config to your home dir for modification?
[15:26:28] <daniel_br> in a new location
[15:26:43] <SWPadnos> ok. that kills my only theory ;)
[15:27:19] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: how are you doing with matching names and addresses to the "names" in that table?
[15:27:40] <SWPadnos> oh - I haven't really started actually
[15:27:51] <SWPadnos> I did stick the data into a spreadsheet though
[15:27:53] <jmkasunich> I have a few here, but I think most (all?) of them copied yo already
[15:27:56] <jmkasunich> you
[15:28:15] <SWPadnos> hmmm - I only have 2 or 3 emails, and I think only one has an address
[15:28:31] <SWPadnos> also Alex mentioned that he'd like a 5i20 (only)
[15:28:36] <jmkasunich> hmm, I suppose I should send you my address too (as well as everything else I've collected)
[15:28:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'lo all
[15:29:33] <SWPadnos> well, I still don't know exactly how we'll be handling it - I'll be calling Peter later today (it's only 7:30 there)
[15:31:08] <jmkasunich> I just added alex, and swaped the -LV and -HV on the 7i39
[15:31:19] <SWPadnos> ok - thanks
[15:31:47] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure when I'll find out how the ordering process will work. I don't want to be too much of a pain to Mesa
[15:32:14] <daniel_br> Someone can tell me how configure ini file for use Home_sequence?
[15:32:18] <jmkasunich> right - we want to balance the pain between them and us (you)
[15:32:43] <jmkasunich> daniel_br: explain what you want to do
[15:33:31] <daniel_br> home all axis with one click
[15:33:32] <cradek> daniel_br: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/config/ini_homing/index.html
[15:34:08] <jtr> jmkasunich: please add a 7i30-4 to my order
[15:34:08] <cradek> daniel_br: get them to work individually first, then set up HOME_SEQUENCE and HOME_IS_SHARED
[15:35:08] <cradek> jmkasunich: please put me down for a last-minute 5i20 and 7i30-4
[15:35:16] <SWPadnos> yay!
[15:35:20] <jmkasunich> yay
[15:35:27] <jmkasunich> jtr - done
[15:36:22] <jmkasunich> cradek: done
[15:36:30] <alex_joni> daniel_br: HOME_SEQUENCE is only for 2.1
[15:36:35] <jepler> wow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Xenon-flash.gif
[15:36:36] <daniel_br> cradeck: some ini file with this config for use as sample?
[15:36:43] <skunkworks> the _pear_ pressuer worked ;)
[15:37:06] <jmkasunich> jepler: neat
[15:37:09] <cradek> jmkasunich: thank you
[15:37:23] <cradek> daniel_br: no, I don't think any sample configuration is set up that way.
[15:37:59] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jepler: cool
[15:38:03] <cradek> daniel_br: but the documentation looks clear to me
[15:38:15] <jepler> I am also having trouble saving the classicladder setup in 2.1 too
[15:38:21] <jepler> the sim/axis.ini has a moning sequence
[15:38:24] <jepler> a homing sequence
[15:40:15] <daniel_br> jepler i will see that example and test it
[15:40:28] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: thanks for adding me
[15:40:37] <jmkasunich> you're welcome
[15:40:43] <alex_joni> jepler: moning sequence sounds nice
[15:40:53] <jmkasunich> moaning?
[15:40:58] <alex_joni> yeah :D
[15:40:59] <SWPadnos> morning
[15:41:04] <SWPadnos> or mourning morning
[15:42:02] <daniel_br> Jmk, its possible send me one 5i20 for Brazil i can pay with paypal
[15:42:14] <jmkasunich> I don
[15:42:19] <jmkasunich> I don't know
[15:42:24] <cradek> can I hook a 7i30-4 and a 7i37 to one 5i20?
[15:42:29] <jmkasunich> there are customs and shipping issues
[15:42:39] <SWPadnos> cradek, yes
[15:42:42] <jmkasunich> cradek: you can hook up to three interface boards to one 5i20
[15:42:46] <daniel_br> customs only in brazil
[15:42:51] <jmkasunich> (there are three identical ribbons)
[15:42:56] <daniel_br> This I pay here
[15:42:57] <SWPadnos> the 7i30 on the motor connector, and up to two 7i37 on the I/O connectors
[15:43:05] <SWPadnos> (depending on the config)
[15:43:20] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos is right
[15:43:26] <alex_joni> wish they would have used faster optos on the 7i37
[15:43:34] <jtr> jmkasunich: thank you - was away
[15:43:42] <daniel_br> USPS can send this for about USD 25.00
[15:43:46] <jmkasunich> all three are "identical" only in hardware terms, if the config treats them separately then they aren't identical
[15:44:26] <SWPadnos> you can also do things with pull-up/pull-down resistors, and change the supply voltage per connector, I think
[15:46:02] <jepler> jmkasunich: add a 7i31 to my order
[15:46:25] <skunkworks> christmas time ;)
[15:46:56] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/classicladder_gtk.c: allow GTK_RESPONSE_ACCEPT and GTK_RESPONSE_OK to both trigger the 'save' action
[15:47:16] <jepler> daniel_br: I found a problem with classicladder that prevented "save as" from working. "save" still has a problem, because it does not seem to know the correct filename to use
[15:47:51] <daniel_br> jepler: thanks for that
[15:48:41] <jepler> daniel_br: thanks for bringing it to my attention
[15:49:04] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/classicladder_gtk.c: merge rev allow GTK_RESPONSE_ACCEPT and GTK_RESPONSE_OK to both trigger the 'save' action
[15:49:09] <jmkasunich> jepler: done
[15:50:03] <daniel_br> halui and feed-hold and m53 p0 and p1 working nice in my tests
[15:50:11] <alex_joni> nice to hear that
[15:50:46] <daniel_br> thanks for that also
[15:51:14] <eholmgren> what metric size correlates to 10mm diameter thread?
[15:51:18] <eholmgren> M8?
[15:51:23] <alex_joni> M10 :D
[15:51:25] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:51:45] <alex_joni> eholmgren: maybe I didn't understand the question
[15:52:04] <eholmgren> I might just be retarded
[15:52:06] <eholmgren> ;)
[15:52:20] <eholmgren> making something for work and I need _metric_ tee nuts
[15:52:30] <wb9mjn> Yea, Metric fastener diameters are straight forward...its all the pitches (DIN, JIS, ISO,ANSI) that are
[15:52:33] <SWPadnos> metric threads: M<diameter in mm>x<pitch in mm> ;)
[15:52:35] <wb9mjn> mind bogling...
[15:52:51] <eholmgren> from what I could tell at the hardware store, the bolt was 10mm x 1.25mm
[15:52:55] <alex_joni> M10x1.5 I think
[15:53:04] <alex_joni> oh, 1.25 exists too
[15:53:15] <wb9mjn> Yep 1.5 is what an "M10" is...
[15:53:21] <SWPadnos> corresponding roughly to coarse/fine threads, I guess
[15:53:25] <wb9mjn> Take a look at 12 mm bolts though ?
[15:53:36] <skunkworks> those are the exaust trubine manifold bolts on my car ;)
[15:53:47] <eholmgren> 12mm was too big
[15:53:55] <wb9mjn> 1.0, 1.25, 1.5, 1.75 and one of them is really close to an english size...
[15:54:05] <wb9mjn> Anyway,,,just a comment...
[15:54:11] <eholmgren> they had 10mmx1mm and 10mmx1.25mm
[15:54:18] <eholmgren> 1mm pitch was way too fine
[15:54:23] <alex_joni> yup
[15:55:08] <eholmgren> 1.5 would have been noticably different from 1.25, correct?
[15:55:17] <eholmgren> at least as much as 1 was from 1.25?
[15:55:27] <SWPadnos> not quite as much, but close
[15:55:47] <SWPadnos> (1.25 is 1/4 more than 1.0, 1.5 is 1/5 more than 1.25)
[15:56:19] <jmkasunich> cradek, jepler: to minimize shipping and hassle (either at Mesa or for SWP) what about shipping your stuff together
[15:57:12] <alex_joni> bet they don't mind
[15:57:34] <cradek> jmkasunich: please add a 7i37 to my order then
[15:57:41] <cradek> jmkasunich: of course
[15:59:35] <jmkasunich> cradek: done
[15:59:43] <cradek> thank you
[15:59:50] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: what is your email address?
[16:00:00] <alex_joni> at sover dot net
[16:00:07] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: I'm doing a spreadsheet, with real names, email addys, street addys, and phone numbers
[16:00:28] <eholmgren> hrrmn... McMaster has M10 tee nuts, but they don't mention the pitch
[16:01:22] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, spadnos at sover dot net
[16:01:29] <SWPadnos> jmkasunich, I have one, minus the addresses :)
[16:01:44] <SWPadnos> cut/paste actually works as expected from Mozill ainto OOCalc
[16:01:53] <jmkasunich> same thing into gnumeric
[16:01:56] <daniel_br> jepler: how emc number in(s) and out(s) in a classiclader config?
[16:01:58] <SWPadnos> cool
[16:02:05] <skunkworks> didn't we get an email with everyones address from the cnc workshop ;)
[16:02:13] <SWPadnos> I believe we did :)
[16:02:15] <cradek> haha
[16:03:11] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I think you have my delivery address on the check I sent
[16:03:18] <SWPadnos> ok
[16:03:37] <SWPadnos> I'll copy it down before recycling the envelope and depositing the check ;)
[16:03:55] <jepler> daniel_br: classicladder.0.in-00 is %i0, classicladder.0.out-00 is %q0, etc
[16:04:39] <daniel_br> Thanks
[16:05:25] <jepler> bbl
[16:07:44] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: you have an email. Just in case ;)
[16:07:57] <SWPadnos> ah - so I do. thanks
[16:09:42] <jmkasunich> ok, I have real names and email addys for everybody except A-L-P-H-A
[16:09:53] <jmkasunich> only four addresses though
[16:10:02] <skunkworks> no thank you - and thanks to to jmk also
[16:10:07] <jmkasunich> (well, five, I assume SWPadnos knows his own)
[16:10:14] <SWPadnos> heh - last I knew ;)
[16:10:19] <cradek> yes, thanks guys, for doing all this work for us
[16:10:29] <alex_joni> ditto
[16:10:42] <jmkasunich> skunkworks: can you /msg me your addy and phone number?
[16:11:11] <SWPadnos> I'll get it to you with A-L-P-H-A's
[16:11:13] <SWPadnos> in a sec
[16:11:50] <skunkworks> jmkasunich: sending you an email.
[16:11:58] <jmkasunich> thanks
[16:15:58] <alex_joni> acemi: nice job on the debian wiki page
[16:16:13] <acemi> :)
[16:16:35] <alex_joni> there was an user sooner that uses that setup
[16:16:59] <acemi> but debian changes the default kernel
[16:17:11] <acemi> it will released with 2.6.18
[16:17:42] <alex_joni> yeah, no RT for 2.6.18 though
[16:17:48] <alex_joni> Xenomai might be the exception there
[16:18:08] <jmkasunich> ok. list is filling in nicely
[16:18:16] <alex_joni> and there's a slight chance that rtlinux free might work on 2.6.18, but I'd never try that
[16:18:49] <cradek> can't you just take the nearby rtai patch and hack it into applying?
[16:18:50] <jmkasunich> need addys for jepler (or just send to cradek), steves_logging, dave engvalls, and tom mccarty
[16:19:02] <jepler> jmkasunich: send mine to cradek
[16:19:02] <alex_joni> cradek: 2.6.17 or 2.6.19 ?
[16:19:09] <jmkasunich> jepler: ok
[16:19:11] <acemi> i'll try to use 2.6.19 patch
[16:19:15] <jepler> that way he can pay for it all and put some nice christmas wrapping on mine too
[16:19:20] <jmkasunich> lol
[16:19:30] <alex_joni> it'll probably barf quite a bit
[16:19:31] <cradek> seems like a patch +-1 version ought to work with a little fiddling
[16:20:04] <jepler> cradek: seems like the difference between 2.6.x and 2.6.x+1 is bigger than 2.4.x and 2.4.x+1 ever was
[16:20:10] <cradek> oh
[16:20:15] <alex_joni> yeah, but installing 2.6.19 might be easier
[16:20:18] <cradek> it's true I never tried
[16:20:21] <alex_joni> bbl .. lunch
[16:20:26] <cradek> using dapper is easier :-)
[16:21:22] <jepler> someone should check whether the dapper kernel works on nuisance
[16:21:28] <jepler> er, gnewsense
[16:21:46] <skunkworks> coworker got puppy booting on a key chain drive. pretty cool little package. (the non emc version)
[16:22:10] <skunkworks> * skunkworks thinks it looks a lot like windows 95
[16:22:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra> which WM? blackbox?
[16:24:17] <skunkworks> wm?
[16:28:07] <eholmgren> window manager?
[16:32:04] <skunkworks> ah - don't know.
[16:33:34] <skunkworks> JWM. Fvwm95 & IceWM are packages
[16:34:05] <skunkworks> I don't know which one was the default. - sounds like fvwm95 ;)
[16:34:24] <SWPadnos> I call it YuckWM
[16:36:53] <eholmgren> ewww
[16:39:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> http://fvwm95.sourceforge.net/screenshot-full.gif
[16:39:27] <Lerneaen_Hydra> yuck indeed
[16:39:54] <jepler> I'll take the w9x look over most things
[16:40:03] <jepler> in fact I made a w9x-style theme for my wm (icewm)
[16:40:14] <cradek> wow, I hadn't seen netscape4 for a while
[16:40:18] <SWPadnos> what - no hi-color fonts?
[16:40:18] <cradek> it's so ... clean looking
[16:40:34] <jepler> nothing is rounded or shiny
[16:40:38] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:40:42] <cradek> look at the square buttons with clear pictures and text on them!
[16:40:46] <SWPadnos> how can one live without jellybuttons?
[16:40:59] <jepler> it's like somebody removed 30% of the ugly from motif
[16:41:02] <cradek> you can even tell they're buttons
[16:41:30] <SWPadnos> how can anyone live without stealth buttons that require you to mouse over them before you can tell that they do anything?
[16:41:54] <SWPadnos> I must port EMC and everything else open source to Vista!
[16:42:07] <jepler> here's what a "desktop" should look like: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/desktop.png
[16:42:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra> :p
[16:42:26] <cradek> mine is slightly less blue - more gray
[16:42:32] <cradek> but same general idea
[16:42:45] <mdynac> greetings all....
[16:42:49] <cradek> same terminal font too, I think
[16:42:51] <cradek> hi mac
[16:43:02] <skunkworks> mdynac: hows the edm servo tuning?
[16:43:07] <Lerneaen_Hydra> does anyone know of a software/data liscence that allows free reuse for non-profit purposes (and forces open source), but for use in commercial applications with a royalty?
[16:43:10] <mdynac> does logging work in cvs head?
[16:43:21] <jmkasunich> define "logging"
[16:43:23] <cradek> logging?
[16:43:45] <mdynac> i keep getting error:invalid command name "emc_log_isopen"
[16:43:56] <cradek> when you do what?
[16:44:03] <jmkasunich> well, thats a completely different question
[16:44:12] <cradek> no, that's not a question :-)
[16:44:22] <jmkasunich> that logging was removed a long time ago, and that message means there is a bug somewhere
[16:44:32] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: you can "dual license" your software: let the user choose from the GPL or a commercial license that you would have an attorney draft for you--the latter requiring payment of some fee.
[16:44:39] <jmkasunich> we usually use halscope these days for "logging"
[16:44:58] <mdynac> in tkemc when i click on settings.....logging......
[16:45:01] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jepler: oh, so you don't know of any pre-made licsences that do that?
[16:45:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra> *liscences
[16:45:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hmm, that's not good either
[16:45:20] <cradek> sounds like the bug is someone didn't take that out of tkemc
[16:45:25] <jmkasunich> yep
[16:45:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ah, licences
[16:45:44] <cradek> license
[16:45:57] <SWPadnos> license in the US, licence in the UK
[16:46:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, I see
[16:46:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra> license it is
[16:46:14] <cradek> SWPadnos: huh, I didn't know that one
[16:46:38] <SWPadnos> it's a word of a different colour ;)
[16:47:14] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: did you see the enclosure I found yesterday?
[16:47:21] <SWPadnos> yep - both of them
[16:47:33] <SWPadnos> the big one is pretty much the same as the one I have, but I think mine is deeper
[16:47:53] <mdynac> so how deos on check following via logging...
[16:48:04] <jmkasunich> use halscope
[16:48:05] <mdynac> if the tkemc thingy is broke
[16:48:18] <cradek> mdynac: use halscope, take a nice screenshot if you want to record it
[16:48:22] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: I've never really investigated royalty-based licenses, so I don't know of any "good" ones
[16:48:52] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: I would have liked one a little deeper, but I also want to be able to open the door all the way
[16:48:59] <mdynac> k, guess i'll go figure out halscope....is there any instructions for checking ferror using halscope?
[16:49:02] <SWPadnos> Lerneaen_Hydra, see if the trolltech pay license is on their website
[16:49:08] <jmkasunich> besides, you takes what you can get
[16:49:19] <SWPadnos> jmkasunich, yeah - the door thins is a problem ;)
[16:49:20] <cradek> mdynac: ferror is one of the things you can plot - there are no special instructions
[16:49:22] <SWPadnos> thing
[16:49:32] <jmkasunich> I was very happy with the one I got, some were absolutely filthy, full of holes, dented, etc
[16:49:39] <cradek> mdynac: haven't you used halscope before?
[16:49:50] <SWPadnos> mine has several holes, but I think I'll need more than there are, so it's not a problem
[16:49:57] <mdynac> i think i fired it up once......
[16:50:06] <mdynac> why was i supposed to?????\
[16:50:16] <Lerneaen_Hydra> SWPadnos: ooh, that sounds right now that you mention it
[16:50:16] <SWPadnos> it did come with the backplate, some terminal strips, and a nuce current transformer as well
[16:50:27] <cradek> mdynac: I'm just surprised you haven't tuned with it yet
[16:50:32] <jmkasunich> yeah, I wish mine had the panel, but...
[16:50:41] <SWPadnos> s/nuce/nice/
[16:50:44] <jmkasunich> 3/16 aluminum will cost me about $60
[16:50:48] <SWPadnos> ouch
[16:50:56] <cradek> mdynac: it's just like a real scope, but you can scope internal emc 'signals' such as position, following error, as well as external
[16:50:58] <SWPadnos> that's what the whole thing cost me (and you)
[16:50:59] <mdynac> today is the day......i probably should have done this a while ago.....
[16:51:37] <jmkasunich> I'm sure steel would be cheaper, but aluminum (and thick) means its easy to drill and you can tap the holes instead of using nuts or crappy thin sheetmetal threads
[16:51:55] <mdynac> thx gotta go, merry christmas all!!!!
[16:54:36] <SWPadnos> alu also makes a good heatspreader
[16:55:03] <SWPadnos> bolt the bridge rectifier directly to it
[16:55:28] <SWPadnos> that reminds me - I should see if my transformer's smoke seals are working :)
[17:01:39] <jtr> jmkasunich: one last change on my order? add another 7i31 and another 7i37, please?
[17:04:00] <SWPadnos> so that's 1 5i20, 2 7i30, 1 7i31, 1 7i33, and 2 7i37?
[17:04:05] <jtr> That way I'll have all of the hardware to mock up a plasma cutter control system.
[17:04:47] <SWPadnos> oops - 2x7i31, 1x7i30
[17:05:35] <jtr> yesss!
[17:06:00] <SWPadnos> ok. I noticed the error because I was about to suggest another 7i31 ;)
[17:06:35] <jmkasunich> jtr - on the phone, hang on
[17:07:50] <jmkasunich> ok, jtr - please tell me exactly what you want (instead of "add one more" cause I don't want to add twice)
[17:08:26] <jtr> change 7i31 and 7i37 to qty 2
[17:09:44] <jmkasunich> done
[17:09:45] <jtr> gotta run - bride is standing behind me with a spear - gotta take her to lunch. I'll catch on the readback.
[17:10:34] <SWPadnos> see ya
[17:10:47] <skunkworks> 14 5i20
[17:10:48] <skunkworks> nice
[17:11:08] <jmkasunich> 45 boards total
[17:12:03] <SWPadnos> I make it 48
[17:12:11] <SWPadnos> or 49, I can't decide
[17:13:15] <skunkworks> did you see the email from greg?
[17:13:49] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/tcl/tkemc.tcl: add the hal tools and remove some obsolete things from the menus
[17:14:18] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/tcl/tkemc.tcl: add hal tools
[17:15:57] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that's a lot of boards
[17:16:31] <SWPadnos> I still may throw in one of the BLDC driver boards, but I can't decide which one
[17:30:52] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/serport.comp: fix module parameter documentation
[17:32:32] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/extensions/emcmodule.cc: provide the symbolic debug constants to python
[17:32:43] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/debuglevel.py: add script to set emc's debug level
[17:32:43] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/Submakefile: add script to set emc's debug level
[17:32:58] <cradek> well that was fast
[17:32:59] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/share/axis/tcl/axis.tcl: add menu item for debuglevel script
[17:33:09] <SWPadnos> indeed
[17:33:17] <jepler> one of you can back-pork it
[17:33:40] <cradek> not a bugfix :-/
[17:34:14] <cradek> hmm, neither was adding a menu to tkemc
[17:34:16] <cradek> * cradek ducks
[17:34:25] <jepler> yuck, it doesn't exit when emc2 does
[17:34:31] <jepler> like emctop, it lingers...
[17:35:11] <cradek> bleah
[17:41:46] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/scripts/emc.in: use @WISH@ instead of wish
[17:43:06] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/scripts/emc.in: kill emctop, mdi, and debuglevel at exit -- use pidof -x because they're scripts. simmot was removed, don't bother trying to kill it.
[17:43:56] <eholmgren> what's the max length on a parallel printer cable?
[17:44:20] <cradek> depends who you ask - I think it's 6 feet
[17:46:18] <cradek> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_1284
[17:46:31] <cradek> 2 meters
[17:51:55] <skunkworks> I know a guy that knew a guy that ran one 20 feet without a problem ;)
[17:52:42] <cradek> I was doing support in the mid-90s and over-long low quality cables were a constant problem
[17:52:48] <cradek> it sure could be better today (stronger drivers)
[17:52:53] <cradek> gotta go, lunch!
[18:16:05] <rafa> hello
[18:18:01] <rafa> somebody could say me as to download emc 2.1
[18:19:06] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2
[18:19:10] <skunkworks> starting at 3
[18:19:38] <jmkasunich> 2.1 is not released yet, you need to get the source from CVS and compile
[18:19:47] <jmkasunich> that webpage has instructions
[18:19:54] <rafa> I know that it has that to use cvs
[18:20:22] <rafa> which the line of cvs?
[18:20:43] <jmkasunich> read the instructions on that wiki page
[18:20:53] <rafa> please
[18:21:07] <rafa> i have debian
[18:21:14] <rafa> i want emc 2.1
[18:21:21] <skunkworks> jmkasunich: I hope jon was saying his drives and the mesa board where untested
[18:21:29] <jmkasunich> do you have a realtime kernel for your debian?
[18:21:56] <rafa> yes
[18:22:32] <jmkasunich> look at item 4 on that page for a way to get targballs
[18:22:46] <jmkasunich> and item 5 for info about using debian
[18:22:59] <rafa> cvs -z5 -d:ext:anon@cvs.linuxcnc.org:/cvs co emc2?
[18:24:11] <jmkasunich> you need a -r tag to get a specific version
[18:24:59] <jmkasunich> you want the v2_1_branch
[18:25:08] <rafa> it could say me as
[18:25:21] <skunkworks> Hey les.. Long time.
[18:25:40] <les_w> hi skunk!
[18:25:46] <les_w> yeah just busy
[18:26:05] <SWPadnos> all those high-profile, high-dollar projects done? ;)
[18:26:39] <les_w> I have to do a show and tell in chicago in a couple weeks....the patents are filed
[18:26:44] <jmkasunich> rafa: I don't know the exact command, I would have to look it up in the cvs man page
[18:26:49] <jmkasunich> you can do that yourself
[18:27:05] <jmkasunich> you just need to know that you want to check out the v2_1_branch
[18:27:19] <les_w> not done though....looks like I will manufacture the thing!
[18:27:25] <les_w> hi jmk
[18:27:29] <jmkasunich> hi les
[18:34:42] <skunkworks> les_w: so... when is the gantry getting emc2? :)
[18:36:51] <wb9mjn> Hey Les...
[18:36:58] <wb9mjn> What car did you buy ?
[18:37:36] <wb9mjn> I upgraded the little mill here to EMC 2,,,went well...
[18:43:41] <rafa> I do not obtain
[18:43:56] <rafa> i need emc 2.1 because halui
[18:52:45] <les_w> hi wb9...I was away
[18:53:08] <wb9mjn> Yep...
[18:53:19] <les_w> I bought a lexus.
[18:53:37] <les_w> reliability was a big concern since I am so far from a dealer
[18:53:46] <wb9mjn> I am watching the news (on hdtv on monitor 2) web surfing for parts for the machine, and irc here, hi..
[18:54:06] <SWPadnos> rafa: look at section 3.2 of the installation instructions, and change "-rRELEASE_2_0_5" to "-rv2_1_branch"
[18:54:10] <wb9mjn> Ok...
[18:54:14] <les_w> I'm basically waiting for glue to dry
[18:54:18] <wb9mjn> So, which Lexus did you get ?
[18:54:33] <les_w> but I can see it cure on the impedance analyzer
[18:54:44] <wb9mjn> People in Seatle are runing their houses off their Prius's ...
[18:54:47] <les_w> I got the GS sports sedan
[18:54:49] <wb9mjn> no power otherwise...
[18:54:53] <les_w> kinda MID SIZE
[18:55:07] <wb9mjn> Yep, familiar with it, they make a hybrid one too...
[18:55:25] <Guest464> hello
[18:55:39] <wb9mjn> Hi Guest...
[18:55:42] <les_w> hey...no fossil fuel in this house....100% pellet heat
[18:56:02] <wb9mjn> Yep, I remember you have all that timber on the property...
[18:56:25] <les_w> but I have to buy the pellets
[18:56:33] <les_w> $250/ton
[18:56:39] <Guest464> i need install emc 2.1
[18:56:49] <les_w> but all computer controlled stoves
[18:57:43] <wb9mjn> How long does a tone last ?
[18:57:55] <wb9mjn> ton..
[18:58:14] <wb9mjn> Not sure about EMC 2.1....I just did the Live CD ubuntu install here...
[18:58:20] <wb9mjn> I think that is 2.0x ?
[18:58:30] <les_w> I am burning a ton a month
[18:58:37] <wb9mjn> Not bad....
[18:58:51] <les_w> 1 55,000 btu unit in the house, and another in the shop.
[18:58:54] <wb9mjn> We had sub 10 F weather here a few weeks ago...
[18:59:04] <wb9mjn> But since its been warmer than usual...
[18:59:12] <les_w> It has been 10 here too
[18:59:26] <wb9mjn> Yea...the shop probably uses up most of it...
[18:59:31] <SWPadnos> Guest464, look at section 3.2 of this page: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2
[18:59:49] <les_w> actually the house because it is old and leaky
[18:59:58] <wb9mjn> Oh...
[19:00:12] <Guest464> as to catch emc from cvs?
[19:00:28] <SWPadnos> Guest464, yes, you need to use CVS to get the v2_1_branch
[19:00:45] <Guest464> how to make?
[19:01:06] <SWPadnos> that's all in the instructions page I linked to
[19:01:57] <SWPadnos> you need to change one thing in section 3.2, change "-rRELEASE_2_0_5" to "-rv2_1_branch" (you may also want to change the directory name)
[19:02:47] <Guest464> alex jone it had passed me the instructions
[19:02:51] <Guest464> but ..
[19:02:53] <wb9mjn> Thinking of getting a rotary table and doing the fourth axis here...
[19:04:52] <wb9mjn> Prius has your ink on the rearview mirros Les...
[19:04:56] <wb9mjn> Comes in handy...
[19:06:05] <Guest464> how to use cvs
[19:07:22] <SWPadnos> that's a deep topic, which you can find a lot of information on by searching with google for "man cvs"
[19:07:51] <Guest464> my friends
[19:08:01] <Guest464> in the morning ..
[19:10:05] <Guest464> gentily alex joni had explained me as to make download of version 2.1
[19:10:12] <Guest464> but ..
[19:11:13] <Guest464> i lost
[19:11:24] <Guest464> please help me
[19:11:31] <Guest464> a need 2.1
[19:11:50] <Guest464> because i need for a 1 boton eexternal
[19:12:01] <cradek> if you cannot follow the instructions maybe it would be best to wait for 2.1 packages to be released
[19:12:21] <Guest464> this boton cicle start
[19:12:26] <Guest464> ok i know
[19:12:45] <Guest464> i know got a code for cvs
[19:13:07] <Guest464> how make it?
[19:15:10] <les_w> oh, wb9....The patent expired on the car mirror heater this august
[19:15:25] <les_w> it was a good run though
[19:16:31] <wb9mjn> Ok....welp, they designed the car around 2002, so ITW probably got something out of it...
[19:16:42] <les_w> yeah
[19:17:05] <les_w> I checked on total sales when I was at corporate last time
[19:17:06] <wb9mjn> This version has been produced since october 2003 ...
[19:17:26] <les_w> since 1989 it was $550 million
[19:17:31] <les_w> good run huh?
[19:17:33] <wb9mjn> whoa!!!
[19:17:34] <wb9mjn> Yea...
[19:17:48] <wb9mjn> They better treat you right...
[19:17:54] <les_w> they do.
[19:19:13] <wb9mjn> Have my Motenc-100 small mill runing emc2 ...
[19:19:25] <les_w> working well?
[19:19:47] <wb9mjn> Only tricky part was the spindle speed control...buy they helped out on here, and its running good...
[19:19:54] <wb9mjn> Yep...similar following errors...
[19:20:27] <wb9mjn> Had to retune the PID's as no FF2...supposed to have FF2 in the 2.1 that Guest was talking about...
[19:20:41] <les_w> I really really want to take off a month and switch to motenc and emc2
[19:20:47] <les_w> yeah ff2 is needed
[19:20:56] <wb9mjn> Next release they say...
[19:21:14] <wb9mjn> Yea, it keeps the error average flat across a movement...
[19:21:36] <les_w> the cnc may get a job making parts for the initial runs of the new invention
[19:21:37] <cradek> wb9mjn: how long did your emc2 conversion take?
[19:21:51] <les_w> that can be an excuse to do the switch
[19:22:28] <wb9mjn> It took about 4 days cradek...but allot of it was wiring up the I/O from the Motenc to the breakout box.
[19:22:52] <wb9mjn> Used to be from the break out box to a parallel port (bridgeport io)...
[19:23:03] <les_w> and you get the nice highservo update rates right?
[19:23:17] <wb9mjn> Also, there is more I/O as there is enables for each axis, rather than all ganged together...so that took some
[19:23:21] <wb9mjn> wiring in the machine...
[19:23:51] <wb9mjn> Similar servo rates to what I had previously...
[19:24:13] <wb9mjn> Hmm...the axis rates are high as they were...
[19:24:23] <cradek> les_w: would you go to a much faster machine if you didn't need isa?
[19:24:34] <wb9mjn> But seem to think the trajectory is set to 10 ms, rather than 1...have to check that...
[19:24:52] <les_w> hi chris...yeah as fast as is needed
[19:25:13] <wb9mjn> Axis is bogging down with the 800 MHz PC...
[19:25:23] <wb9mjn> Double that I think would be good...
[19:25:33] <wb9mjn> PIII ...
[19:26:04] <les_w> Since we are looking at 100k-200k for molds for plastic parts of the invention, It makes sense to do at least the initial runs on the cnc
[19:26:13] <les_w> delrin...
[19:26:31] <SWPadnos> make the molds ...
[19:26:38] <les_w> heck might even beat a single cavity mold on cycle time on some parts
[19:26:54] <SWPadnos> do you have or need 5-axis though?
[19:27:05] <les_w> but yeah will make molds when the design settles
[19:27:13] <SWPadnos> molds have the advantage of doing both sides (all sides actually) at the same time
[19:27:43] <les_w> I built the machine for an easy 5 axis convert. That's why the z travel is so large
[19:28:58] <cradek> les_w: are you still using the old emc that gives you problems with arcs, or did you improve it?
[19:29:18] <les_w> yeah still the old emc
[19:29:25] <les_w> I really want to switch
[19:29:41] <les_w> card and software
[19:30:04] <cradek> I bet the wiring will take more time than the software
[19:30:15] <les_w> yeah
[19:30:20] <cradek> I think you will be surprised by how easy it is to install.
[19:30:34] <les_w> cool
[19:30:55] <wb9mjn> I agree....
[19:30:57] <les_w> I have just been so caught up in this work
[19:31:20] <les_w> They won't let you just take a month off
[19:31:28] <cradek> how about a week?
[19:31:38] <wb9mjn> The other problem I had was homing...because I am using limts for the homing, and the limits disable the amps..
[19:31:57] <wb9mjn> It works, just barely....but can take a few tries on the Z axis...
[19:32:03] <les_w> heh... a week someday....
[19:32:23] <cradek> wb9mjn: doctor, doctor, it hurts when I do this!
[19:32:30] <wb9mjn> But, it does do full auto homing now...unlike EMC 1 (manually run into limit), the home back out...
[19:32:35] <cradek> wb9mjn: sorry, just teasing
[19:32:38] <les_w> like right now....having to slave away to make an end of year milestone
[19:32:50] <les_w> artificial deadlines and such
[19:32:57] <cradek> wb9mjn: why don't you fix it to not do that?
[19:33:28] <wb9mjn> Its following error trip when the amp turns off...
[19:33:41] <wb9mjn> The fix is to add a real home switch...
[19:33:44] <les_w> biaw....must go to the shop
[19:33:50] <cradek> bye les
[19:33:55] <SWPadnos> see you Les
[19:33:58] <wb9mjn> Or, a pushbutton to disable the amp trip circuit during the home...
[19:34:10] <wb9mjn> Bye Les...
[19:34:55] <skunkworks> damn.. itching to get back to work on the K&T :)
[19:35:14] <wb9mjn> Is there a Home output ?
[19:35:22] <wb9mjn> Goes true during homing ?
[19:35:31] <cradek> wb9mjn: I don't think so
[19:35:53] <wb9mjn> hmm...then just a manual pushbutton...
[19:36:19] <wb9mjn> Its easier to do this, then add the home switch, as the liquid tight side of the machine is all buttoned up...
[19:36:49] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/usrmotintf.cc: remove the % message because it is often printed during simulation (and does not indicate a problem)
[19:37:23] <wb9mjn> But, if EMC had a home output, I could just wire the extra MotencI/O and run that to the amps...
[19:38:04] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/usrmotintf.cc: merge rev 1.22: remove the % message because it is often printed during simulation (and does not indicate a problem)
[19:39:22] <cradek> thanks, that's nice
[19:39:51] <skunkworks> * skunkworks was half expecting the last comit from jepler to have a homing active addition ;)
[19:40:34] <cradek> I think wb9mjn is using version 2.0 so that wouldn't help him much
[19:41:35] <cradek> also that change would break wb9mjn's setup which right now is "stop no matter what the computer says"
[19:42:04] <cradek> a manual button to push while homing still has that safety
[19:42:22] <wb9mjn> Yea, its a hardware disable of the amp +/- limit...and computer disable of the amp enable..
[19:42:46] <wb9mjn> Amp has three enables... + - and eitherway...
[19:43:41] <wb9mjn> Also had to wire up seperate out the Estops on the EMC2 conversion...
[19:44:13] <wb9mjn> Computer amp limit disable might be too dangerous...
[19:44:29] <wb9mjn> But, a home output could light a lite, to tell the operator to push the button...
[19:44:37] <wb9mjn> That way, there is a human in the loop...
[19:44:59] <cradek> or use a sticker marked "push this while homing" :-)
[19:45:18] <wb9mjn> If the software is in error, the hardware amp limit could be defeated...
[19:45:33] <wb9mjn> Yea....
[19:46:02] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/debuglevel.py:
[19:46:02] <CIA-8> get rid of debug options that are useless to set after startup
[19:46:02] <CIA-8> make the labels use the same font as axis
[19:46:02] <CIA-8> make the debug options appear in the order shown in the source code
[19:46:25] <jepler> when you upgrade to emc2.1 you could make the same button enable the amp override AND perform the homing sequence
[19:46:56] <jepler> (hooking it through halui too)
[19:46:57] <wb9mjn> That would be neat....
[19:47:20] <jepler> you'd have to keep the button pressed through homing sequence but it sounds like that is true anyway
[19:47:27] <wb9mjn> Home operator switches...
[19:47:31] <wb9mjn> yep...
[19:47:46] <jepler> hm not sure halui can initiate the homing sequence
[19:48:43] <wb9mjn> Going to have to get one of those 4 button switches for my operator push button station...
[19:48:45] <jepler> I don't see any signal for it
[19:48:49] <jepler> er, pin
[19:49:14] <wb9mjn> Think I have seen those....
[19:49:20] <wb9mjn> Or just settle for one...
[19:49:31] <wb9mjn> I have the single buttons already...
[19:50:00] <wb9mjn> And multiple switch blocks....one for the each amp, and one for the signal to EMC...
[19:50:20] <cradek> wb9mjn: your button could initiate 'home all'
[19:50:29] <wb9mjn> Have to see how the fail safe falls out...
[19:50:34] <wb9mjn> Yep...
[19:52:22] <wb9mjn> Hopefully I have an extra shielded quad pulled to the PB station...Think I do (for the old pot speed control)...
[19:53:45] <wb9mjn> Might need more wires though....another quad or two...
[19:56:17] <wb9mjn> Anyway....
[19:58:56] <jepler> cradek: looks like 'home all' isn't implemented in halui in 2.1.
[20:02:15] <wb9mjn> Don't have the switches I need....only two chrome handled selector operators left...one detent, one momentary...
[20:02:24] <wb9mjn> Need a pushbutton...
[20:02:36] <wb9mjn> GE pushbutton...
[20:04:09] <wb9mjn> When its done, the PB station will actually look like it was planed that way....hi!
[20:04:37] <wb9mjn> Has 4 postions...Estop, Spindle Enable, Spindle Control Selector...and the fourth with be home...
[20:05:29] <wb9mjn> Spindle Control Selector has Manual - Off - Computer ...
[20:06:04] <wb9mjn> Enable button engages the Spindle contactor after power down or Spindle Selector set Off...
[20:24:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'night
[20:28:01] <rafa> hello
[20:28:11] <rafa> i need emc 2.1
[20:28:17] <rafa> please help me
[20:39:16] <eholmgren> oh god, it's rafa again
[20:42:12] <cradek> I don't remember him
[20:42:39] <skunkworks> how many languages can you speak? I have trouble with one ;)
[20:43:07] <jepler> cradek: he's more often known as GuestNNN
[20:44:46] <cradek> is any bridgeport knee mill going to come with ballscrews, or just the ones that were originally cnc?
[20:45:04] <SWPadnos> only ones that have been upgraded
[20:45:26] <SWPadnos> I don't know if ballscrews were a factory optoin on the manual machines
[20:45:28] <cradek> even the old cnc (like the boss?) are not ballscrews originally?
[20:45:41] <SWPadnos> the CNC should be (but I'm not sure)
[20:45:56] <skunkworks> cradek is shopping
[20:45:59] <SWPadnos> ie, all CNC mills are ballscrews, but not all ballscrew mills are CNC ...
[20:46:14] <SWPadnos> (though the "all" in there may be wrong)
[20:46:28] <cradek> got it
[20:46:52] <cradek> so for a conversion you'd want to find one with the crappy old steppers on it, and throw them out?
[20:47:04] <cradek> skunkworks: biggest problem is no 3 phase power available
[20:47:25] <SWPadnos> it depends on the price. I got a good mill, then bought new ballscrews off eBay for $600 or so
[20:47:44] <cradek> how much rework did it take to mount them?
[20:48:04] <SWPadnos> none - I just had to take the table and saddle off
[20:48:22] <SWPadnos> the ballscrews were a conversion kit for a BP, with screws, pre-mounted nuts, and a yoke
[20:48:23] <cradek> oh they were specifically put together for converting that machine?
[20:48:26] <SWPadnos> yep
[20:48:35] <cradek> cool, that's nice to know
[20:49:01] <SWPadnos> actually, I do have to do a little work. the ballscrews are about 1/4" longer than the old screws were (not sure if that's due to the original machine having a power feed or something else)
[20:49:28] <SWPadnos> so I need a flat plate with a few holes drilled in it, to use as a shim between the table and bearing mount
[20:53:27] <skunkworks> cradek: any pictures of the barn?
[20:54:02] <cradek> skunkworks: nope
[20:54:34] <skunkworks> if the spindle is the only issue - I would buy a vfd that takes 220 single phase. (assuming they are out there - would hope so)
[20:54:59] <cradek> do have that out there.
[20:55:37] <skunkworks> usually the smmaller ones I have seen allow that at some derating
[20:55:53] <cradek> that's good to know too
[20:56:59] <SWPadnos> it's also quite easy to make a rotary phase converter
[20:57:02] <SWPadnos> even I did it
[20:57:19] <cradek> get two motors...?
[20:57:25] <SWPadnos> one motor
[20:57:56] <cradek> * cradek is obviously clueless
[20:58:06] <SWPadnos> a 3-ph motor will run from single phase, if you get it started correctly. once started, you can start and run additional motors from the 3 phases of the first motor
[20:58:14] <SWPadnos> (with suitable capacitors included)
[20:58:18] <skunkworks> yeck
[20:58:20] <skunkworks> :)
[20:58:25] <SWPadnos> it works great here :)
[20:59:25] <SWPadnos> I got a cheap 5HP motor at a local repair shop, added a few components and an enclosure, and voila: 3phase power
[20:59:30] <Jymmmm> Jymmmm has changed the topic to: Welcome! EMC (Enhanced Machine Controller) is a linux-based CNC control. | Latest release: EMC 2.0.5 | http://www.linuxcnc.org | http://wiki.linuxcnc.org || cradek is obviously clueless
[20:59:39] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:00:15] <Jymmmm> * Jymmmm is ONLY quoting what has already been said.... nothing more, nothing less.
[21:00:21] <skunkworks> but but - we want cradek to work on rigid tapping - much better with the vfd ;)
[21:00:26] <SWPadnos> http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/phase-converter/phase-converter.html
[21:00:39] <wb9mjn> One of the Indian guys who used to be at work, said in India they would run three-phase motors using one-phase
[21:00:40] <SWPadnos> I probably have some prints of the ladder logic in mine
[21:00:51] <wb9mjn> an inductor and a capacitor...
[21:00:51] <Jymmmm> * Jymmmm is clueless about that, no obvious bout it!
[21:01:08] <SWPadnos> yep - stick a start cap on it, and additional caps between the wild leg and the two legs of the 1ph feed, and it should work, but at 2/3 power
[21:01:23] <wb9mjn> No, they were phasing the current with the cap and inductor...
[21:01:35] <wb9mjn> Or maybe just a cap ?
[21:01:41] <SWPadnos> that should only work when the load is well known
[21:01:56] <SWPadnos> yeah - jus ta big cap is fine for startup, and the motor will continue to run on one phase
[21:02:12] <wb9mjn> They left the cap in...
[21:02:27] <SWPadnos> actually, the cap is only needed to insure that the motor goes in the expected direction. it should still start and run on one phase without it
[21:02:37] <wb9mjn> Ok...
[21:02:47] <Jymmmm> I never got that.... whay a cap would determine the direction.
[21:03:19] <SWPadnos> because it delays the voltage to the other leg, and that gives a little push in one direction vs. the other
[21:03:24] <Jymmmm> Hell, I never got why an AC motor always turns the same direction
[21:03:32] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos ah, ok
[21:03:33] <SWPadnos> ok, time for another topic change
[21:04:05] <Jymmmm> what about 1ph motors?
[21:04:13] <Jymmmm> like on a drill press or saw
[21:04:28] <Jymmmm> or compressor
[21:04:46] <SWPadnos> single phase electric motors only go in the same direction if they're specially designed to do so, but either sticking a start cap on them or by changing magnet angles or something
[21:04:54] <SWPadnos> s/but/by/
[21:05:39] <Jymmmm> Ok, so AC motors are wound differently to determine direction?
[21:06:16] <Jymmmm> nm... save this conversation for next year
[21:06:21] <SWPadnos> when you look at AC motor theory (something which I detest), there's a real and an imaginary phasor, and they go in opposite directions. it's random as to which one goes what way, so you have to coax it a bit
[21:06:41] <SWPadnos> the motor follows the real phasor, not the imaginary (I think - it's been a long time since I've looked at any of that stuff)
[21:07:05] <Jymmmm> Yeah, wait till next year when I have time to pay attention - something I'd actually like to know more about.
[21:07:21] <SWPadnos> I can look up the name of my old textbook if you like ;)
[21:07:28] <SWPadnos> I think I passed that class
[21:07:31] <Jymmmm> next year
[21:12:40] <owhite> does anyone have a suggestion of how I could put a pause in my g-code?
[21:12:46] <cradek> g4
[21:13:27] <owhite> oh. *RTFMs*
[21:13:33] <cradek> haha
[21:13:41] <cradek> now ask me a hard one
[21:13:56] <owhite> when you die with your eyes open, do you still see?
[21:14:00] <cradek> no
[21:14:10] <owhite> wrong.
[21:14:16] <owhite> :-)
[21:14:44] <SWPadnos> well, technically, cradek is correct, because the question was whether *you* still see...
[21:15:13] <owhite> considering he knew the G4 question, I will defer to his wisdom.
[21:15:18] <SWPadnos> and since *you* cease to live when you die, you don't still see, even if physiologically/optically, there's still light hitting your retina and/or electrochemical signals hitting the brain
[21:15:21] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:16:09] <cradek> I don't get the finer points of that argument, but pause is still g4
[21:16:26] <SWPadnos> :)
[21:16:29] <cradek> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=40-906-013&searchtable=2&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=19
[21:16:50] <owhite> guys that got their heads cut off on guiotines were still able to blink when asked, even after their heads were severed.
[21:16:58] <cradek> they have some neat hackable stuff, too bad they're often so optimistic about the prices
[21:17:23] <cradek> owhite: blinking/hearing/seeing people aren't dead yet
[21:17:38] <owhite> again, you are so wise.
[21:18:23] <cradek> and you're very generous :-)
[21:18:53] <SWPadnos> but very suggestible, since they do what they're told (and presumably they got executed for not doing that)
[21:19:36] <jtr_> learned their lessons, I guess..
[21:19:46] <SWPadnos> a little late, I guess ;)
[21:20:01] <owhite> I would imagine getting my head severed would sharpen my focus.
[21:20:38] <SWPadnos> yep, temporarily
[21:21:50] <robin_sz> meep!
[21:22:01] <SWPadnos> hiya Robin
[21:22:08] <robin_sz> gday ...
[21:22:14] <robin_sz> I see les_w surfaced
[21:22:19] <SWPadnos> briefly
[21:22:49] <owhite> one time I got thrown off my motorcycle about about 90, and I would definitely say time slowed down, or my sensory input rapidly went up.
[21:23:26] <cradek> I've had that experience too, usually right before a tragic event (like I imagine your landing was)
[21:23:37] <robin_sz> I usually find the moment you go down is very very fast .. then time slows as you skid along ..
[21:24:24] <owhite> there's a neurogical term for it "weapons focus" the phenomenon of only focusing on the gun that is pointed at you and nothing else.
[21:24:32] <robin_sz> the momen as the front end loses grip and down it all goes ... I find is so fastI can barely appreciate it even happening
[21:24:35] <jepler> can we make this the qotd? <cradek> I don't get the finer points of that argument, but pause is still g4
[21:24:58] <cradek> jepler: that is a good one isn't it
[21:25:22] <SWPadnos> let's g4 and reflect, shall we?
[21:25:40] <owhite> perhaps we have dwelled on it long enough.
[21:25:51] <robin_sz> I forget ... do we have a "pause until ..." gcode?
[21:25:56] <SWPadnos> gee - you could be right
[21:26:10] <SWPadnos> pause uuntil what?
[21:26:16] <cradek> until ... the specified time runs out
[21:26:17] <jepler> robin_sz: there's m00 to pause until the operator says to continue
[21:26:18] <robin_sz> some input changes ...
[21:26:22] <jepler> other codes like toolchange can involve pauses
[21:26:25] <SWPadnos> ah, wait for input
[21:26:38] <jepler> there's not "pause until HAL pin goes false"
[21:26:41] <robin_sz> wait for godot
[21:27:07] <jepler> first you have to 'newsig godot bit' then 'linksp godot interp.din-00'
[21:27:22] <jepler> but then axis is incapable of showing you an accurate preview of what happens after godot arrives...
[21:29:51] <owhite> hey, who here uses tkemc?
[21:30:26] <cradek> I have used it, but don't regularly
[21:30:28] <owhite> I'm wondering if the slider for feed override reflects % of some speed, or is in inches per minute.
[21:30:37] <owhite> it goes from 0 to 100.
[21:30:48] <cradek> override is a percentage
[21:30:58] <cradek> you can specify the max override in your ini file
[21:31:09] <owhite> okay.
[21:32:20] <owhite> notice I'm not following that up with a philosophical question. :-)
[21:33:03] <cradek> as long as you put easy questions in between it's ok
[21:34:34] <alex_joni> you can use M00 together with halui.program.resume
[21:35:01] <cradek> you could also use motion's feedhold input
[21:35:06] <alex_joni> that's a pin that acts the same as the resume button on the GUI (be it AXIS or tkemc)
[21:36:01] <owhite> hello alex_joni :-)
[21:36:41] <skunkworks> Never use G04 dwells and your hands as a tool-changer. It takes longer than you think... Use M00 or M06 instead
[21:36:55] <alex_joni> or M01 (recently :)
[21:37:03] <alex_joni> M01 together with a dwell
[21:37:10] <jepler> use M6 and the manual toolchanger script
[21:37:15] <alex_joni> or that :)
[21:37:18] <jepler> hal_manualtoolchange
[21:37:49] <jepler> with hal_manualtoolchange you can have the machine move to a set position and pause until you click a button in a dialog that pops up and tells you the information about the new tool you should insert.
[21:38:35] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/axis/index.html#SECTION00180000000000000000
[21:38:52] <jepler> hm I thought it gave the tool diameter there too -- guess not
[21:38:54] <jepler> just the number
[21:39:50] <alex_joni> that would be usefull
[21:41:26] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is happy :)
[21:41:32] <alex_joni> just got my camera backpack
[21:41:56] <SWPadnos> just in time (if you're Christian) :)
[21:41:59] <alex_joni> right
[21:43:10] <jmkasunich> cradek: what did you find hackable about that HGR item
[21:43:28] <jmkasunich> just a grungy box with some buttons, and a weird keyboard thing that drive up the price
[21:43:39] <cradek> yep, just that
[21:43:53] <jmkasunich> plain box would be cheaper
[21:44:03] <jmkasunich> for some reason, they vastly overprice electronics
[21:44:17] <jmkasunich> stuff that is obsolete, busted, or both, and the price goes up
[21:44:39] <jmkasunich> I'd pay money for the box and buttons, but the other thing - bleah
[21:44:59] <jmkasunich> I was reading back and saw you asking bport questions
[21:45:04] <jmkasunich> do you have one already?
[21:45:19] <jmkasunich> or am I mixing you up with SWPadnos who I know does
[21:45:20] <cradek> no, but my eyes are open
[21:45:31] <owhite> hey people here's a question. suppose I have a detector that's mostly based on software. the program would watch my laser and determine if the laser had cut through the metal.
[21:46:04] <owhite> it would do this by counting pixels above a certain brightness.
[21:46:26] <owhite> and as emc was running, it monitor when cutting was occurring, and follow the x-y position of my table.
[21:46:55] <owhite> could an external program do that? know when the table was moving, and when the laser was supposed to be on?
[21:47:10] <jmkasunich> yes
[21:47:15] <cradek> your application would have hal pins
[21:47:22] <owhite> the advantage would be, that when the laser does not punch through, I could record that, and run the laser in a follow up procedure.
[21:47:26] <cradek> you'd hook them up to the motion controller however you need
[21:47:30] <jmkasunich> any C program running on the same PC as EMC can access the hal pins of your system
[21:47:31] <skunkworks> adaptive feed
[21:47:44] <cradek> or python
[21:48:10] <cradek> in general, that's how hal_manualtoolchange works
[21:48:34] <owhite> so I'd have to have a different motion control system other than something like tkemc?
[21:48:46] <owhite> I'd need to be able to track x-y position of the table.
[21:48:59] <jmkasunich> x and y positions are available as hal pins
[21:49:06] <owhite> oh oh oh.
[21:49:17] <owhite> that'd be easy then, er, _possible_.
[21:49:21] <skunkworks> * skunkworks would make it mechanical :)
[21:49:22] <alex_joni> SMOP
[21:49:24] <cradek> yep
[21:49:38] <owhite> make what mechanical?
[21:49:48] <jmkasunich> cradek: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=20-573-002&searchtable=2&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=0
[21:49:49] <robin_sz> owhite, most (or even all) commercial laser simply have a pre set pierce time for each metal thickness and type
[21:49:50] <owhite> *waits to find out what SMOP means*
[21:49:50] <skunkworks> wait - isn't your laser stationary?
[21:49:53] <cradek> follow the cutting by taping it to the spindle
[21:49:57] <jmkasunich> simple matter of programming
[21:50:10] <owhite> my laser is stationary. the table moves the part around.
[21:50:13] <cradek> jmkasunich: wow
[21:50:22] <alex_joni> owhite: simple matter of programming
[21:50:45] <jmkasunich> at that price I gotta wonder what is wrong with ti
[21:50:46] <jmkasunich> it
[21:50:51] <alex_joni> cradek: weight: 30000 lbs
[21:50:59] <skunkworks> you can't have the sensor suspended under the material - stationary on an arm?
[21:51:01] <cradek> "it doesn't work"
[21:51:01] <jmkasunich> nah, maybe 10000
[21:51:20] <eholmgren> maybe it's radioactive?
[21:51:23] <jmkasunich> can't tell if it has any kind of toolchanger
[21:51:30] <cradek> not sure what I would sit that on.
[21:51:31] <skunkworks> hm maybe not
[21:51:35] <owhite> skunkworks: I could have the sensor under the material, yes. I was thinking it could be a ccd system going to software.
[21:51:48] <robin_sz> I dont think its really practical to do that ... anything on the underside of a laser cut soon becomes dirty ...
[21:52:07] <robin_sz> its also not necessary in practice
[21:52:11] <jmkasunich> here's a rigid machine: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=30-142-014&searchtable=2&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=0
[21:52:20] <owhite> right. I was thinking of sacrificial plexiglas over the detector.
[21:52:24] <tomp> toolchanger ? somethings next to the spindle
[21:52:35] <owhite> robin_sz: what would you do to detect piercing of the metal?
[21:52:51] <alex_joni> owhite: faith usually works
[21:52:54] <jmkasunich> is it dark under there prior to pierce?
[21:53:00] <robin_sz> I wouldnt ... I;d just program x milliseconds and thats enough
[21:53:03] <jmkasunich> maybe a simple photocell well off to the side
[21:53:15] <owhite> alex_joni: god has failed me too many times :-)
[21:53:31] <tomp> hitachi! when they copied middle European machines
[21:53:46] <jmkasunich> looks kinda like an old cinci
[21:54:08] <owhite> robin: I have limited wattage. the system fails sometimes, I'd like to track when it doesnt cut.
[21:54:09] <jmkasunich> I dunno if this one was CNC, or just had a clunky old DRO on it
[21:54:19] <jmkasunich> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=40-659-011&searchtable=2&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=1
[21:54:20] <robin_sz> owhite, how limited?
[21:54:32] <wb9mjn> What's wrong with it ? Probably the Ways are curved now...
[21:54:43] <wb9mjn> From use...
[21:54:45] <owhite> its a coherent G100. it produces (the literature claims) 250watts.
[21:55:04] <robin_sz> that should be OK to 2mm or so
[21:55:17] <robin_sz> just
[21:55:32] <robin_sz> 3mm would be dodgy ...
[21:55:34] <owhite> right. sometimes things get hot, the steel buckles a little, changes height enough so it doesnt get cut.
[21:55:48] <robin_sz> what height sensing do you use?
[21:56:07] <owhite> none. havent found anything cheap enough.
[21:56:11] <robin_sz> ahh.
[21:56:14] <owhite> I looked around.
[21:56:15] <robin_sz> thats the real problem
[21:56:28] <robin_sz> we built a height sensor for less than 10$
[21:56:29] <owhite> shout out a good lead, I'll look into.
[21:56:42] <owhite> YA WHAT YA HOO NOW?
[21:56:59] <owhite> *rubs eyes*
[21:57:30] <robin_sz> its not hard .. we just mounted the cutting nozzle on a standard trumpf ceramic
[21:57:47] <robin_sz> used it as the capacitve element is a simple oscillator ..
[21:57:55] <owhite> what be trumpf ceramic?
[21:58:15] <robin_sz> as used on trumpf lasers .. with precitec height sensors
[21:59:01] <robin_sz> its an insulating cermaic block
[21:59:12] <anonimasu> *yawn*
[21:59:16] <robin_sz> with a brass thread on to take a nozzle
[21:59:29] <anonimasu> capactive sensors..
[21:59:32] <anonimasu> ultrasonic sensors..
[21:59:39] <anonimasu> inductive analog sensors..
[21:59:40] <owhite> so if its part of the cutting head how's it measure the distance to the part?
[21:59:57] <anonimasu> or laser..
[22:00:03] <anonimasu> though thats out of most people's league..
[22:00:10] <robin_sz> it is the capacitor in an oscillator
[22:00:14] <Rugludallur> npn or pnp 2/3/4 wire ac or dc
[22:00:21] <robin_sz> closer it gets to the metal, lowert the prequency
[22:00:24] <anonimasu> and not really practical for a application where you want to have a larger sensing area
[22:00:44] <owhite> robin_sz: would it work for stainless? that's mostly all I cut.
[22:00:56] <robin_sz> yes
[22:01:04] <robin_sz> stainless with 250W?
[22:01:06] <robin_sz> coo
[22:01:12] <owhite> yeah.
[22:01:24] <robin_sz> height is critical
[22:01:26] <anonimasu> hm, dosent stainless cut well?
[22:01:27] <owhite> thin, thin thin stainless. usually 0.032.
[22:01:42] <anonimasu> as it disspassiates heat like crap :)
[22:01:47] <owhite> yeah, height is critical, which is where the conversation started.
[22:01:49] <owhite> :-)
[22:02:08] <anonimasu> I belive some capacitive sensor would be right for that..
[22:02:10] <robin_sz> well every laser on the lanet in industry uses capacitove height sensing like I described
[22:02:21] <robin_sz> 95% of them use precitec height sensore
[22:02:24] <robin_sz> sensors
[22:02:31] <owhite> hm. well neet.
[22:02:34] <anonimasu> ultrasonic wouldnt be bad either..
[22:02:49] <owhite> how much you reckon the precitecs cost?
[22:02:58] <robin_sz> owhite, thousands :)
[22:03:05] <owhite> yeah.
[22:03:14] <owhite> * owhite is but a simply hobbiest.
[22:03:18] <anonimasu> a normal capacitive sensor isnt expensive..
[22:03:21] <anonimasu> maybe $100
[22:03:22] <robin_sz> anonimasu, unlikely, you need to sense right at the tip, 5mm diamter
[22:03:36] <robin_sz> not a large area around it
[22:03:51] <owhite> well the other thing that confused me was...
[22:03:58] <robin_sz> you need control to 0.7mm +- 0.4 max
[22:04:03] <owhite> ..what happens when you cut out parts, and that runs under the sensor?
[22:04:06] <anonimasu> robin_sz: that's shitty.. -/+
[22:05:06] <robin_sz> pretty much state of the art for a commercial laser at 12m/minute over wobbly metal
[22:06:27] <robin_sz> owhite, we built our own, about 4 ICs and a bit of analogue ... give 1 to 10v over a range of .2 to 5mm
[22:06:50] <anonimasu> robin_sz: why didnt you use a comercial sensor?
[22:06:59] <anonimasu> robin_sz: im just curious
[22:06:59] <robin_sz> they cost thousands
[22:07:18] <anonimasu> robin_sz: preci.. whatever isnt the only brand in the world..
[22:07:20] <owhite> robin_sz: any chance you could show me a rough circuit diagram?
[22:07:23] <robin_sz> this is for our low-budget YAG project
[22:07:45] <anonimasu> robin_sz: with prietec you are using the whole head as sensor?
[22:07:46] <anonimasu> right?
[22:07:47] <robin_sz> anonimasu, please name the other brands ...
[22:07:55] <robin_sz> no
[22:08:02] <alex_joni> burny has some torche height control
[22:08:02] <robin_sz> using the nozzle only
[22:08:06] <alex_joni> capacitive iirc
[22:08:13] <robin_sz> alex_joni, for laser?
[22:08:13] <alex_joni> for plasma though
[22:08:23] <anonimasu> robin_sz: that makes it harder.
[22:08:40] <anonimasu> robin_sz: though therea are thousand of places that makes capacitive sensors..
[22:08:56] <aip_tom> here's a huge mill on ebay, currently for $100:
[22:08:57] <aip_tom> http://cgi.ebay.com/Shizuoka-vertical-milling-machine_W0QQitemZ170062481904QQihZ007QQcategoryZ12584QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[22:09:07] <robin_sz> name one making capacitave height senors for laser use
[22:09:11] <anonimasu> baumer, omron, contronex..
[22:09:16] <owhite> I dont see the problem as being able to hack a capacitive sensor -- it has to be mounted in the cutting nozzle itself.
[22:09:40] <aip_tom> it's in Rochester, NY, if anyone is close to there
[22:09:44] <robin_sz> no, the sensor is not mounted on the nozzle
[22:09:58] <robin_sz> just the oscillaotr part is on the head assembly
[22:10:10] <anonimasu> owhite: what robin is talking about is using the nozzle as sensing area..
[22:10:16] <anonimasu> owhite: face/whatever you call it..
[22:10:38] <owhite> right. I'm just saying buying a capacitive sensor wont do it. like you are saying, it has to be in the nozzle itself.
[22:10:51] <robin_sz> yes
[22:11:22] <robin_sz> mount it on a ceramic block .. these are cheap .. we use about 4 a month .. they are desinged to break when a part flips up
[22:11:34] <anonimasu> bbl..
[22:11:38] <anonimasu> going to go to a friend..
[22:12:01] <owhite> right. the ceramic block is threaded?
[22:12:16] <robin_sz> yeah, on the nozzel side
[22:12:24] <robin_sz> it has a brassh collet glued into it
[22:12:30] <owhite> that's something.
[22:12:47] <owhite> and where is the rest of the circuitry?
[22:13:01] <wb9mjn> Gecko time....beep....
[22:13:07] <robin_sz> small oscillator pcb mounted on the head
[22:13:23] <owhite> right.
[22:13:31] <robin_sz> signal from 8 to 12 mhz down a coax
[22:13:38] <robin_sz> 8 when close to metal
[22:13:47] <robin_sz> 12 when 10mm away
[22:14:07] <wb9mjn> That is easy to do....
[22:14:10] <owhite> could you give me a basic sketch of the circuit?
[22:14:13] <robin_sz> mix it with 7.5 mhz to get 0.5 to 4.5mhz
[22:14:17] <wb9mjn> You are talking grid dip meter simple here...hi..
[22:14:34] <robin_sz> f to V convertor
[22:14:35] <robin_sz> done
[22:14:46] <owhite> right.
[22:14:47] <robin_sz> bit more circuitry for tip-touch sensing
[22:14:58] <owhite> dont want tip-touch sensing.
[22:15:07] <robin_sz> sure?
[22:15:24] <owhite> well, you use it for detecting collisions?
[22:15:27] <robin_sz> yep
[22:15:48] <owhite> okay. might be interesting. I made a laser pointer pinting up at a light detector.
[22:16:01] <owhite> the detector is the same gizmo used by optical mce.
[22:16:05] <owhite> er, mice.
[22:16:16] <robin_sz> you need this .. with 250w trying to cut stailess ... well, you are barely above the damage threshold for Co2
[22:16:25] <owhite> right.
[22:16:29] <robin_sz> you need to maintain really good focus
[22:16:38] <robin_sz> what focal length are you using
[22:16:44] <owhite> yah yah. hey I've been cutting for a while :-)
[22:16:46] <robin_sz> quite short I guess, 4" 5"?
[22:16:57] <owhite> 3.5 inch.
[22:17:00] <robin_sz> right
[22:17:05] <robin_sz> soundsa about right
[22:17:10] <owhite> the gap between the nozzle and the metal is like 2mm.
[22:17:19] <robin_sz> wow!
[22:17:22] <robin_sz> thats huge
[22:17:32] <robin_sz> 0.7mm is standard
[22:17:34] <owhite> its just a guess.
[22:18:15] <owhite> yeah. its definitely larger than 1mm
[22:18:17] <robin_sz> using what, 1.0 to 1.2 mm nozzles?
[22:18:23] <owhite> 1.0
[22:18:30] <robin_sz> k
[22:18:41] <owhite> I like it because I clamp the part down with another bit of sheet metal.
[22:18:43] <robin_sz> and.. and about 4 bar of nitrogen
[22:18:58] <owhite> then if the laser goes over the "clamp", it doesnt collide.
[22:19:19] <owhite> 60 psi, 300 kPa.
[22:19:28] <robin_sz> 4 bar
[22:19:30] <robin_sz> right
[22:19:53] <robin_sz> how thick stainless?
[22:19:57] <robin_sz> in mm
[22:20:00] <robin_sz> .25?
[22:20:01] <owhite> 0.032 inch.
[22:20:14] <robin_sz> mmm .8
[22:20:15] <owhite> its got to be less than 1mm.
[22:20:30] <owhite> I've tried twice that thick. it was okay.
[22:20:42] <owhite> I just use a lot of the .8mm for my application.
[22:21:05] <robin_sz> you shouls get around 500 to 800mm a minute cut?
[22:21:35] <owhite> I can. I go a little slower, because sometimes it doesnt penetrate.
[22:21:40] <robin_sz> right
[22:21:59] <owhite> ...which is where we started. see, sometimes it doesnt cut and its _not_ because of height problems.
[22:22:15] <robin_sz> sure ...
[22:23:00] <robin_sz> height will be absolutley critical for you, +-0.4 and its not going to sut
[22:23:02] <owhite> I thought it would be cool to measure if its penetrating. if it doesnt, then you'd run it again. :-) which is what I do by hand now.
[22:23:14] <owhite> yes.
[22:23:36] <robin_sz> so, you cant measure the height while running
[22:23:45] <owhite> hey that would be fun too.
[22:23:48] <robin_sz> but you are sure its not because of height issues?
[22:24:09] <owhite> to be honest, I think most of the time its height. the main reason being...
[22:24:19] <robin_sz> warping metal
[22:24:27] <owhite> ...everything else is pretty reproducible. height seems like the most _likely_ problem.
[22:24:37] <robin_sz> heat gets in, metal pops up or down
[22:24:50] <owhite> yep. sometimes I engrave and it goes all to crap.
[22:24:54] <robin_sz> your short focal length meakes it very critical
[22:25:15] <robin_sz> I use 6", and we notice .5mm very easily
[22:25:17] <owhite> oh. that's a good point. I have the optics to try 5 inch. I should give that a shot some time.
[22:25:40] <owhite> I'd have to buy a different holder for the cutting head. $500.
[22:26:17] <owhite> hey. I _have_ a height detection system. when the laser doesnt cut, the height is off. problem solved :-)
[22:26:20] <robin_sz> work on some sort of capacitive height sensor, feed it back in real time to the Z axis
[22:26:31] <owhite> yah that would be great.
[22:27:05] <robin_sz> one of my favourite demos is to hold a piece of sheet under the head, .. activate the height controller, move the piece up and down by hand and the head follows
[22:27:22] <owhite> my original mentor told me _not_ to use real time z-axis adjustment.
[22:27:40] <owhite> I dont agree with him now, but it would be hard to put iit into the system.
[22:27:47] <robin_sz> right ... well, im sure he knows better than every laser make on theplanet
[22:27:55] <owhite> yah.
[22:28:03] <robin_sz> wait,
[22:28:20] <owhite> he was the same rocket scientist that sold me the laser for $6500, when it was worth $28,000 retail. so I'm not complaining.
[22:28:38] <robin_sz> 6k5 for 250w?
[22:28:46] <owhite> yes.
[22:28:56] <robin_sz> I sold a 400w ferranti for £300 a few months ago
[22:29:11] <owhite> is that a sealed laser?
[22:29:15] <robin_sz> nah
[22:29:21] <robin_sz> slow flow
[22:30:16] <owhite> http://www.nilno.com/laser_intro/laser_head.html
[22:30:20] <owhite> that's mine.
[22:30:39] <owhite> I really like it.
[22:31:06] <robin_sz> nice .. I kow the coherent heads a little
[22:31:23] <robin_sz> my lasers a are a "bit" bigger :)
[22:31:36] <owhite> yah yah. this in my basement.
[22:31:51] <owhite> I have a chiller next to my washing machine.
[22:32:03] <robin_sz> 800W Haas yag, 1800W optomic CO2 and with a freind we built a 1KW yag
[22:32:22] <owhite> I'd really like to know more about YAG.
[22:32:36] <robin_sz> the optomic is destined to go on a laser tube cutter
[22:32:41] <skunkworks> yag is a crystal - isn't it?
[22:32:46] <robin_sz> yep
[22:32:48] <owhite> is it just as expensive to cut metal?
[22:32:55] <robin_sz> expensive?
[22:33:00] <robin_sz> its cheaper than CO2
[22:33:20] <owhite> oh yeah? what kind of wattage, in general do I need to cut 1-2mm?
[22:33:30] <robin_sz> stainless?
[22:33:35] <owhite> sure.
[22:33:58] <robin_sz> well, ideally, about 1kw of c02 or 500w of yag I wouldd say is practical
[22:34:19] <robin_sz> we find 3mm is hard woth 800w
[22:34:27] <robin_sz> 2mm is ok
[22:34:30] <skunkworks> how many watts of light make 500w beam on a yag?
[22:34:40] <robin_sz> well
[22:34:45] <robin_sz> 30kw makes 800w
[22:35:32] <skunkworks> bbl
[22:36:03] <robin_sz> owhite, http://www.rapidcut.co.uk/ thats mine :)
[22:36:59] <owhite> yeah baby.
[22:37:08] <owhite> there's a typo on that page, do you care?
[22:37:14] <robin_sz> sure there is?
[22:37:19] <owhite> "Drawign"
[22:37:24] <robin_sz> oopsy :)
[22:37:53] <owhite> would you have a picture of the ventilation system near the nozzle?
[22:38:00] <owhite> I"m building one now. need inspiration.
[22:38:06] <robin_sz> ventilation?
[22:38:10] <alex_joni> can you guys see this? http://www.peters-cnc-ecke.de/forumupload/uploadFiles/2982_115674027908_11086_115674027908_roboter123_000.jpg
[22:38:18] <owhite> yeah, you know, to remove fumes :-)
[22:38:36] <robin_sz> we have a bucket that travles under the workpiece, on a 4th axis .. follows the head
[22:38:47] <robin_sz> vacuum pipe etc to big filter
[22:39:04] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/2982_115674027908_11086_115674027908_roboter123_000.jpg
[22:39:06] <owhite> alex_joni: yes.
[22:39:10] <alex_joni> latest bot driven by emc2
[22:39:35] <alex_joni> http://www.peters-cnc-ecke.de/forumupload/uploadFiles/11086_115674027908_roboter126.jpg
[22:39:40] <owhite> robin_sz: so it just draws off fumes from below?
[22:39:44] <robin_sz> yeah
[22:39:46] <alex_joni> http://www.peters-cnc-ecke.de/forumupload/uploadFiles/11086_115674027908_roboter125_000.jpg
[22:39:52] <robin_sz> no fumes are ever above
[22:39:57] <robin_sz> above is clean
[22:40:06] <owhite> fiddles sticks.
[22:40:18] <robin_sz> except for a little pierce spatter
[22:40:37] <owhite> well, I'm treating oxygen as the main thing I want to get rid of.
[22:40:43] <owhite> not fumes, really.
[22:41:01] <owhite> and that definitely is in abundance above the part.
[22:41:06] <owhite> at least on my system.
[22:41:17] <robin_sz> really?
[22:41:28] <robin_sz> sure its not just coming up around the sides
[22:41:32] <robin_sz> hot gas rises?
[22:41:44] <owhite> yep. think about it. oxy is shooting through a tiny hole. it doesnt all go through the cut.
[22:42:00] <robin_sz> it will when you are 0.7mm from the metal :)
[22:42:13] <robin_sz> oh, you are OXY cutting, not nitorgen!
[22:42:15] <owhite> that's right. that is a consequence of my height.
[22:42:21] <owhite> yeah yeah.
[22:42:25] <robin_sz> thats how you cut 2mm with 250W!!!
[22:42:39] <owhite> well I'm told I could use N2. it just cuts slower.
[22:42:48] <robin_sz> but it cuts shiny clean
[22:42:59] <robin_sz> the edge is just shiny stainless
[22:43:01] <owhite> well I would love to see a N2 cut. I get dross.
[22:43:11] <owhite> on the back of the cut. how about you?
[22:43:14] <robin_sz> well, yeah, you dont have enough power really
[22:43:30] <owhite> the dross is because the O2 makes the cut much hotter.
[22:43:45] <robin_sz> we get no dross at all up to 2mm with N2
[22:43:51] <owhite> right.
[22:43:53] <robin_sz> and ok to 5mm with oxy
[22:44:10] <robin_sz> even 6mm on stailess
[22:44:15] <owhite> the other thing about N2, is that you can make N2 concentrators, so you dont have to buy it from the gas supply.
[22:44:21] <jtr_> robin_sz: another typo - "One aree we excel in"
[22:44:23] <owhite> do you use a concentrator or buy it?
[22:44:30] <robin_sz> buy it
[22:44:41] <robin_sz> we use maybe 20 bottles a month of N2
[22:44:44] <owhite> and run at what bar?
[22:44:56] <robin_sz> for stainless ,, 2mm .. 10bar
[22:44:58] <owhite> the other problem I'm told, is it needs much higher pressure.
[22:45:02] <robin_sz> 1.4 nozzle
[22:45:08] <robin_sz> 0.7 height
[22:45:30] <robin_sz> 150psi to you
[22:45:31] <owhite> right. my cutting head would probably explode at that pressure. _that_ would be unfufulling.
[22:45:36] <robin_sz> right
[22:45:47] <robin_sz> if its not a high pressure head, forget about it
[22:46:03] <owhite> but man, if I could cut with no dross, I would be willing to convert to it.
[22:46:15] <robin_sz> not with 250w yo wont
[22:46:29] <owhite> oh you big shots are always so sure of yourselves.
[22:46:35] <robin_sz> in oxy cutting, the stainless burns
[22:46:38] <owhite> yes.
[22:46:43] <robin_sz> in N2, it just has to be melted
[22:46:50] <robin_sz> and blown out of the way
[22:46:55] <owhite> but at the coherent web site they say it works, for my laser.
[22:47:10] <owhite> you just get much slower feeds per inch.
[22:47:16] <robin_sz> you want me to try some 2mm for you at 250w tomorow with N2
[22:47:18] <robin_sz> ??
[22:47:32] <owhite> oh hey, sure. that would be really interesting.
[22:47:42] <robin_sz> * robin_sz adds it to his list
[22:48:09] <robin_sz> we cut around 30 tonnes a month ... so I do know * _little_ bit about the subject :)
[22:48:17] <owhite> good god.
[22:48:26] <robin_sz> I also helped a mate build a 1kw YAG cutter from scratch
[22:48:37] <owhite> sounds like fun.
[22:48:37] <robin_sz> right down to machining the cavities
[22:48:46] <owhite> amazing.
[22:49:12] <owhite> I bought a pallet of 500lbs of stainless, I dont think I have used a quarter of it :-)
[22:49:25] <robin_sz> heh
[22:49:41] <owhite> so speaking of which, I'm making christmas presents.
[22:49:49] <owhite> gonna go back to do a little engraving.
[22:49:54] <robin_sz> enjoy ...
[22:50:01] <owhite> I'll jump back on tomorrow and see how the cutting went.
[22:50:06] <robin_sz> k
[22:50:11] <owhite> my email is owhite@tigr.org, if you want to let me know.
[22:50:17] <owhite> thanks a lot!
[22:50:21] <robin_sz> no problem
[22:53:55] <robin_sz> that remonds me .. I should upload some pictures of the 'bot
[23:33:15] <ejholmgren>
[23:33:53] <alex_joni>
[23:34:08] <SWPadnos> hey - I can't do that
[23:34:34] <jepler>
[23:34:54] <SWPadnos> sure - all you irssi folks can do that, but not us chatzilla folks
[23:35:00] <LawrenceG>
[23:35:06] <SWPadnos> bastid
[23:35:20] <ejholmgren> do what
[23:35:28] <SWPadnos> send a line that contains just a space
[23:35:33] <ejholmgren> ah
[23:35:50] <ejholmgren> was jus seeing if I was still connect afer I brough the mac back from sleep
[23:36:12] <ejholmgren> bitchx let's you do it apparently
[23:36:33] <SWPadnos> I suspect chatzilla is just being too "smart" for my own good
[23:36:48] <alex_joni> lol
[23:36:49] <SWPadnos> not that sending content-less lines is a feature, mind you
[23:37:04] <alex_joni> you just sent a dozen like that :D
[23:37:09] <alex_joni> *rimshot*
[23:37:15] <SWPadnos> :P
[23:37:30] <SWPadnos> hmmm :b
[23:37:32] <SWPadnos> ok
[23:37:43] <jepler>
[23:37:45] <ejholmgren>
[23:37:53] <jepler>
[23:37:58] <ejholmgren> that was 2 spaces btw
[23:38:01] <SWPadnos> I noticed
[23:38:39] <ejholmgren> so ... we finally got snow in MN
[23:38:52] <ejholmgren> and everyone is driving like idiots
[23:39:20] <Jymmmm>
[23:39:44] <robin_sz> http://www.redpoint.org.uk/photos/upload/robot/Image018.jpg
[23:39:48] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos sure you can... <space>CTRL+ENTER
[23:39:49] <robin_sz> my new toy :)
[23:40:02] <jepler> ejholmgren: I figured up in MN people could remember what winter driving was like
[23:40:07] <SWPadnos> I can probably send a lot of junk with ctrl-enter
[23:40:12] <jepler> here in NE they forget, since you don't get a good snow every year
[23:40:40] <robin_sz> what is "snow"?
[23:40:41] <SWPadnos> hmmm - not in my version :)
[23:40:55] <robin_sz> we dont get that anymore ...
[23:41:02] <Jymmmm> robin_sz: REALLY thick fog
[23:41:11] <robin_sz> ahh, yes we get fog :)
[23:41:20] <ejholmgren> have you named the bot yet?
[23:41:25] <robin_sz> robbie!
[23:41:32] <alex_joni> robin_sz: what payload does that one have?
[23:41:39] <alex_joni> seems very fragile to me :D
[23:41:41] <robin_sz> 8kg
[23:41:54] <alex_joni> oh really?
[23:41:58] <robin_sz> plus 10kg on joint 3
[23:42:00] <alex_joni> would have bet for less
[23:42:25] <robin_sz> the top arm is about 80mm dia
[23:45:10] <alex_joni> seen the bot I pasted earlier? (homebrew=
[23:45:28] <robin_sz> yeah
[23:45:57] <robin_sz> thats what poked me into action to post the pics
[23:45:59] <alex_joni> looks nice too, although ebay would have been way cheaper/better
[23:46:07] <alex_joni> :-P