cradek: my pluto no longer gets very warm while running the test hal file
what did you change?
jmkasunich: no idea
cradek said his never did, so it can't be "recompiled the firmware many times"
gawd, sdp/si must be serving their website from a 56K modem
the printed catalogs on my shelf are "faster"
my only printed catalog from them is ancient
and doesn't have proces
I'm not sure if the website has gotten with the program and has pricing or not
it looks like their stuff is too small for what I need anyway
what are you driving?
shoptask lathe spindle
[01:17:44] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/blosxom
doesn't look like I can do 4:1 reduction in one stage
oh geez, that site is slooooooowww
didn't believe me didja?
3/4" L timing belt wouldn't be enough?
marginal I think
3/4 H would be better
filtering the actual limitations out of the info presented isn't fun
what pitch is H ?
(I'm using some documents from Gates right now)
jmkasunich, timing gears... google, toronto gear works. I think they have their catalogue online
thanks, will do
[02:34:17] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.torontogear.com/specifics.html
ooooooooooh. they wnat your email
they're local to me... so I order from them direct.
really GOOD prices.
usuall cheaper than I can make it for, if I include my time.
still recommend you giving them your info to get a catalogue.... I have a printed version, otherwise I'd just share
hi having trubs with the live cd install
alex_joni is the maintainer of that... and he won't be around for another few hours... as he's sleeping.
Well everything installs OK but I never get chance to supply a root password is ther a default
no tried that.
ubuntu, you don't log in as root.
sudo is the way
I'd recommend, getting ubuntu 6.06 LTS, and getting EMC via that method.
yea that was what I was thinking I might do.
that's how I did it.
even sudo is going to ask for a password isnt it
use your regular user password
ok thanks for that will go and try that now see you latter
there's this dead mazak sitting outside, palletized, about a block from my shop. i don't need another project, but it's still tempting
i'd love to have a cnc lathe
but first... gotta get the mill running. I got a check in the mail today, so I'm going to order my encoders tomorrow from US digital
I think I'm going to get three Gecko g320 drivers to begin with, then work with skunkworks to get a 45A driver circuit working w/ a Mesa m5i20 board next month
so initially, I'll be using Mach, but will migrate to EMC in February or so (and I have a fallback if I can't get something to work for some reason)
heh, i'll repeat that for skunkworks:
but first... gotta get the mill running. I got a check in the mail today, so I'm going to order my encoders tomorrow from US digital
I think I'm going to get three Gecko g320 drivers to begin with, then work with skunkworks to get a 45A driver circuit working w/ a Mesa m5i20 board next month
so initially, I'll be using Mach, but will migrate to EMC in February or so (and I have a fallback if I can't get something to work for some reason)
*44A driver (not that it matters, will only get 20-30A out unless I use liquid nitrogen for cooling)
ok - good
I have a couple of paying projects so I need to get it up and running soon, which will pay for development of stuff later. :)
I was going to say - 44amps is not going to happen
yeah, .12ohm is pretty high. I have a mosfet on another board that only have .04 ohm equiv, and my does it make a huge difference - don't even need a heat sink on it
why use mach - emc will to step and direction just fine.
'course, it's a 30V, 3.5A circuit
normally - the higher the voltage - the higher the Rds from my limited experience.
i want to try out mach. for $160, it makes sense to have a choice. if it were $1000 or even $400, I wouldn't, but it only takes a couple of paid hours to pay for the software at $160
but remember I am no expert. jmk is the mosfet master. ;)
yes, i know, and that's one reason I'm not going to rely on your circuit - I'm no master either, and have seen MOSFETs arc due to back EMF before. it's pretty, but seems a good chance that could happen on the first go-around
* tom_cnc1 likes bright flashing lights, even if it does let the smoke out
tom_cnc1 is now known as tom_aip
so I was planning on getting encoders from US Digital, just because I've ordered from there before and they worked. anyone know of another place that's cheaper or better?
I need to make a bigger power supply next. I have a 6kva transfomer lined up. playing around with these servos - I almost flipped it on the floor ;)
[03:12:08] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSC_0242.JPG
it's $80 for 1000 cpr. ok, will take a look at them
that's quite a motor - i used a clamp to hold down my motor when testing, looks like you'd need a vice
:) it will be bolted down for the next testing
automation something. trying to find the link
light duty, medium duty, or heavy duty - which best describes a cnc machine?
(yeah, found automationdirect.com, looks good)
(er, the duty refers to an encoder)
depends ;) I am cheap and try the 80 dollar ones. and go from there
[03:16:10] <skunkworks> http://web6.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Sensors_-z-_Encoders/Encoders/Light_Duty_Standard_Shaft_(TRD-S_Series)/TRD-S1000-VD
they are $80.90 at us digital, $81.50 on automationdirect. I'll save the $1.80 and buy at us digital. :)
that is what I want to play with.
the same thing?
I don't remember finding any shaft style encoders on usdigital for that price
[03:17:47] <tom_aip> http://www.usdigital.com/products/h15s/
.25" shaft instead of 6mm, too
one more time
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-12-20.txt
those are plastic cases - the automation direct ones look like they are metal cases
yep, diecast aluminum for automation direct. Hmm...
the faces of the us digital encoders are anodized aluminum w/SS cleats
it's just the body that's plastic
I'll go see which is easier to mount tomorrow before ordering, thanks for the suggestion
tom_cnc is now known as aip_tom
* aip_tom thinks it's time to register a nick... keep getting booted
it forces a re-join if someone else with the same nick is online
it told me i was disconnected, and then I re-joined - perhaps there was no message on the channel? i thought there'd be one
i saw a tom_cnc has joined, but nothing showint tom_aip left
anyone know what to when the computer shuts down during a update manager (ubuntu) and not it says you cant run 2 instances of it? I was told to delete a lock directory but it still isn't working.
skunkworks: like this? E: Could not get lock /var/lib/apt/lists/lock - open (11 Resource temporarily unavailable)
I assume you'd just 'sudo rm -f /var/lib/apt/lists/lock'
if you want to pastebin the output from 'sudo apt-get update' I'll try to help
tom_aip still showing up in the (user? list) - what's that called, anyway?
ok - probably won't happen until tomarrow. Thanks jepler
jepler: its past your bed time ;)
skunkworks: I know
did you see that I got the "official pinout" pluto files into CVS?
jepler: no - cool. will look at it.
[04:20:49] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/quartus-no-error.png
jepler: what does the -f do? I didn't do that
ok - means force
i have a system that wont boot from flash... not emc, an edm controll, there is no rom, no disk, no cd
it says BOOT FAILURE please insert diskette
any ideas what to try?
it used to work :(
any europeans around?
A metric hub is described as being 35mm bore, with a 10x3.3 keyway
I know what 35mm bore means
and I'm pretty sure that 10mm, is the width of the key, but that seems pretty wide
wide for a 35mm bore fer sure
but this seems to show 10mm as a standard for 35mm
[04:51:19] <jmkasunich> http://www.jwwinco.com/technical/keyway.htm
maybe metric stuff uses wider than normal keys?
my problem is that my lathe has a 35mm spindle shaft, to which I want to fit a new pulley
and the key is 6mm wide
so I can't find anything with the right keyway
I don't have a keyway broach, and don't really want to get one for this
they scare me
picutre looks right, so 3.3 might be depth, and you might use a stepped key for your problem ( got 2 keyways already or 1?)
about 19mm long, rounded ends
(both ends closed
I suppose a stepped key isn't too insane
10mm wide, stepped to 6 to go into the shaft keyway
?consider no keyway... a collet like hub center ( mcmaster carr )
like a QD bushing?
already looking at those
the thing is, there is a bearing in the picture
or the fenner trantorque bushings
inner race of tapered roller bearing
locking washer (with tabs you're supposed to bend into notches on the nut)
on the 3in1 headstock?
the axial force from the nuts is the bearing preload
so a collet type bushing in there, with a positive grip on the shaft, probably isn't a good thing
although maybe it works
those things don't move axially when you tighten them do they?
yes mine did
the QD bushings I mean
install spacer, then pulley with loose bushing
set up bearings with nuts, then tighten bushing
yes, the qd and whatever they are coming to grips with...they move simultaneoulsly in diff directions, guess work to end up at the right level for belts
as long as the bushing only clamps radially on the shaft, and doesn't try to move axially, all is well
yeah, the pulley moves as you tighten it
but the bushing part stays put on the shaft (at least if its clamped between a spacer and a nut it will)
oh,i am wrong... the bush didnt, the pulley did , i didnt know how far it would move ( would the flange seat or not before fully tight)
in my case, I'll let the pulley go where it wants, then adjust the motor pulley to match
now I gotta decide what kind of belt to use
need lots of torque with no slippage, and smooth quiet operation
gates power belts
50 mm wide :)
heh, thats a little overkill
50, 30, 25, and others avaiable (mcmaster carr again )
I think double v-belts would do it, a 10 rib J section multi-v might be ok, or a 1" type H toothbelt, or a 20mm HTD timing belt
McMaster Carr is my bible for things like this
and Gates for tech info
toothbelts have plenty of guts for the job, but I'm worried about noise
if you use the timing belts, you'd change the pulley you have, and might go back to the QD idea
i dont hear this 50mm at 3.3m/min
3.3m/min? thats very slow
fast for edm:)
but slow for being able to comment on noise ;-)
V-belt is definitely the cheapest - two-groove 6" pulley is ~$44, plus the bushing for $15
micro-groove 10 rib is $80 plus hub
oh good, my panic fax to taiwan has a reply... in freakin CHINESE!! grfffffff arrrgggh!
type H timing belt: $65 plus hub
HTD timing belt $85 plus hub
jmkasunich: looked here yet? http://www.econobelt.com/
some of the larger metric sizes have a pitch close to .4"
duh "click on catalog number to request a quote"
html version of the catalog does
* jmkasunich clicks and waits
first time nothing happened, 2nd time got a price
not seeing any large (~6" dia) ones at that site
yeah, me either
nothing more than 29-25 teeth
and they have MXL, XL, and L, but not H, in the other style of timing belt
seems like a good source for smaller stuff, just not the biggies
have you found a place that can source H yet?
Mcmaster has them
doh - they do have bigger ones
theres a drop-down list at the top of the page that sets a style and tooth count range
the default for HTD8 is 22-48 teeth
definitely cheaper than mcmaster
I thought it was a bit odd that you could barely get a 1:1.5 drive ration with any of those combinations
HTD8 56 tooth: McMaster $$85, QTC $46
although the McM one accepts a QD bushing that will let me fit it to my 35mm spindle
the QTC one has a 16mm bore
are you going to over or under drive the spindle?
you mean step up or step down speed?
low range needs to be about a 4:1 step down
high range, about a 4:5 step up
just swapping pullies as you see fit then?
hopefully easier than that
relax belt tension, move to another pulley
either step pulleys (only 2 steps), or direct from motor vs. thru a countershaft
like variable speed bridgeports
hadn't really considered that
I'm going go have a VFD, so I really only need high and low
but I should look into it
i like this name of this company (snowmo trans) "hoffco comet" http://www.hoffcocomet.com/comet/aftermarket-torque-converters.asp#20
but i'd likely go to a boneyard for such a transmission ( or see what I can snag in the lak :)
I definitely don't want something that changes ratios automatically like that
maybe you'll even find a fullsize truck or two
you would want to control the cones directly, yes
this is another random question ...
can a bezier exist in 3d, or are the control points stricly 2d?
most splines can exist in Nd
in fact the simplest version of a spline is 1d
for multiple dimensions, you just compute multiple splines, the dimensions don't interact
ef ... bedtime, work in 7 hrs
writing some code
same with me
finished the GPS stuff..
for talking to a pc
anonimasu: what are you up to, what kind of hardware are you working on?
[10:01:59] <^eugenics> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics
smakade det bra? ;)
anonimasu: Are you getting payed for the work?
^eugenics: what of work?
^eugenics: ofcourse I am :)
^eugenics: the stuff im doing on my mill is my own hobby stuff though
the other stuff is for the machines we manufacture
^eugenics: yes it tasted good :)
why do you get so tired after eating ?
anonimasu: Nice for you, Im looking for smaller jobs to do, I have all the paperwork done so it will be legal. So if anyone needs help with something dont hesitate to discuss thqt with me.
I know, its not easy to get clients.
im happy that I've got stuff to do
now to see if gplot will graph my sensor data :9
What is the GPS short for in your project? I guess its not a navigation tool :)
it's for logging area/distance
cool, what is the product sopposed to be used for? Agriculture?
^eugenics: forestry.. or something
jepler: I did the apt-get update again (after deleting the lock directory I thought I could just rerun the update manager - I could not) and this time instead of telling me there was a bunch of locks - it told be there was some bad packages and I needed to run apt-get something -- configure. that seemed to fix it.
* alex_joni mumbles something bad about xp
I got ndiswrapper installed - now I need to figure out if I can get this wireless card to work ;)
* skunkworks still haven't run a latency test on it.
SWPadnos: hwo was the flight
long but relatively uneventful
well the latency test ran for a bit and instantly had 5 over-runs
and there is nothing in the bios about frequency scaling or power saving.
on a laptop, mini-ITX machine, quad-processor server? what?
still works for playing with emc2 and ubuntu
1.7ghz pentium m
ah - the M shoudl clue you in ...
skunkworks: I wish you good luck, I had some stability problems with ndiswrapper before
I have read about it.
sounds like I need to copie the .sys files that xp uses to ubuntu and give it a try
^eugenics: whae did you end up using?
I changed card to use a native driver
or did you end up buying a wireless card that linux could see
madwifi is my favorite
SWPadnos: welcome back to the world
I would have been around more, but the hotel in the UK charged £15 / day for internet access
( O_O )
I'd have trouble paying that too
just to talk to people like me
yeah, considering it's the monthly fee for DSL at home ...
oh yeah - I hadn't even considered that point ;)
i get about 100 kbps through my treo via sprint and PdaNet. i haven't paid a wireless fee in two years (admittedly, only in populated areas or along highways)
I'm relatively sure that wouldn't work in the UK, without exceedingly high fees (unless you're in the UK already, in which case it wouldn't work in the US ...)
it's $15/mo, unlimited. then again, it's only twice as fast as a 56k modem, so I only use it when I have to
yeah, probably not a solution offered in the UK. I think things are bad here in the US, then I look at the UK and think that things could be worse, in some ways. :)
well, it's cheap and effective for them, but not for us traveling there
I rented a phone (for $30 or so), and bought a SIM card to use there. it was 5p/minute to call the US
(and 15p/min to call UK numbers :) )
crap - I need to send that out today - good thing I reminded myself
hey, is it too late to get in on the group buy at Mesa?
not too late
in fact, I'm surprised cradek hasn't signed up yet (wink wink, nudge nudge)
cool, I'd like to get one of the m5i20's and a 7i37
yeah, it's a really cool solution. offloading all the work to the FPGA just makes lots of sense
ok. can you email me and jmk with your address?
at least the fast stuff - floating point in an FPGA isn't really that great
sure, i'm actually just a few miles from Mesa in Berkeley
though it would be interesting to make an FPGA config that does the PIDFF internally, and see if we need more gates
ok. I'll have to see how we
ok. I'll have to see how we'll be paying for the stuff
the sales person did ask about California residents, since they need to charge tax for the locals
(you'd be the first, I think)
jymmm isn't getting one? another wink wink - nudge nudge
no - he's a cheapskate
er - I mean, he has steppers ;)
more than me?
ah, yeah. funny how it doesn't make sense for someone local to pick it up and mail them out
doubly more than you
SWPadnos: how soon do I have to decide if I want to add a 7i30 to my order?
I'd like to place the order on Friday, I think
i'm hoping enough of the work can be offloaded such that a low-cost embedded system - like a Mesa 4c81 - would be able to drive the whole machine
so any time before then
actually, before Friday afternoon
aip_tom, that's one of their PC-104 cards?
yes, with an integrated 200k or 400k FPGAs
ah - cool
[14:45:58] <aip_tom> http://www.mesanet.com/cpucardinfo.html
$284 in q1 with the fpga
aip_tom: nobody's currently using emc2 on anything but x86 PCs
yeah - the ARM is an issue
would make for a really really cheap retrofit package
also, there are only 36 I/Os available on that card
why's that? linux runs on arm
you still need realtime, even if it doesn't need to be 20-uS interrupts
oh well. even with an x86, it still makes for a cheap retrofit package
heh, yep :)
i got quoted 15k from one vendor and 12k from another vendor for my Shizuoka an-s
yeah - "professional" CNC is amazingly expensive
that didn't even include cad/cam or the tool changer integration, just motors & controls
kinda makes me want to start a business based on emc
anyone know a single board computer with a pci bus with the smallest side aboute 50mm thats easy to get hold of without paying 2000 us for a dev kit?
50mm is pretty small, when you want a PCI connector onboard
the 4c81 is an SBC with PCI bus
and 2x 50mm in a side ...
but the smallest side is bigger than 50mm
are you looking for a board that is a PCI card, or one that has a PCI slot?
something like http://de.kontron.com/index.php?id=82&cat=33
It needs a pci bus
and non-x86 is OK?
arm for example
hmm, you're probably not going to find much smaller than the pc/104 standard, which is 3.6 x 3.8 inches (96mm x 90mm)
* aip_tom figures that's why ^eugenics is asking
there are a bunch of "DIMM PCs", but I'm not sure I've ever run across one that has PCI
is small enough but I cqnt get one unless I pay for a devkit wich is too expensive
usually they cost around 50usd when you buy 1k units
hmm, might find a microcontroller with an FPGA and use the opencores PCI module (assuming you don't need too much data throughput)
just a thought, i don't know how realistic that is
swpadnos: what's your email? i found jmk's email, but not yours
spadnos at sover.net
tx, will email
aip_tom: so to connect a wireless mini pci card would be tough then or?
i don't know. i haven't used fpga's, nor opencores, I just know that it's theoretically possible without having to write your own core. the ease of integration is completely unknown to me
oh, and anyone know why emc docs call it the m5i20, and Mesa calls the board just 5i20?
aip_tom: at first look at the dev boards, they all look to big
the emc driver is for the m(esa)5i20 card ...
emc calls the motenc lite / motenc-100 driver "motenc", but obviously they don't ;)
(err - that's not the model of their hardware)
Back...had some computer maintenance to do...
wb9mjn: How is the tuning going?
tuning all done...
Ordered some tooling yesterday...Tormach and Enco...
Thinking about trying out probing...
Have a one page list of things to do on vacation here....
Hi Tomp, I am Don near Chicago...with a servo-mill using Motenc-100...
stupid question. what can I use to edit a file in ubuntu? (a system file)
it runs nano, I think
the servo-mill has 7 by 6 by 7.5 inch travels...
hi wb... wait a minute i keep findin myself on here 2x ??? looking for othe running app on other computer
Still need to get some t-slot tooling. the table I have is one of those Din standard tslots...
There was a company in Wi that made the DIN tslot tooling....have to try and refind that...
t-nuts, DIN try mcmaster carr (www.mcmastercarr.com, fast delivery in chicago area, next morning on your doorstep
not exactly DIN, but listed as 'metric'
Deutsche Industrie Standard?
Yea, familiar with McMaster, I have an account,and could will call it and have it by noon, hi...
Yea, the table, when I bought it off Eaby was listed as a specific DIN number for the slots...
whothef is tomp, thats my tag
Have to go remeasure my slots....
god I suck at linux. Trying to add ndiswrapper to the modules file in the etc directory. I can edit it but when I try to save over it errors.
tomp-tag is Thomas J Powderly
J.W. Winco is the company...
Proably what McMaster sells...
tomp-tag: whois on tomp says that's you...
never mind - it does if for you duh
was reading too far into it
yeh, but why a zombie me? i check netstat -route & yes thats me but only 1 client open,, going down now
fixed now :)
cool! what was it?
stupidity.. gnome hides tabbed terminals and i didnt use top
Ahh, ok. What client are you using? I'm only familiar with ksirc and gaim so far.
xirc, the problem is the apps on the tabbed terminal ( the one on the not focussed terminal ) are not visible to stupid people :)
probably not good for me then ;)
fwiw: i found adlink has 50 pin breakout boards, no idea of price part #DIN-50P comes with 1.5 meter flatband
there are a couple of sellers on eBay that sell National Instruments boards (or kits) with the cable for $30 or less
at least there were a week or so ago ;)
anyone care to make a guess about the capabilities of this stepper?
[16:31:45] <jtr> http://www.mpja.com/productview.asp?product=16235+MS
that could actually be fairly powerful. the current is ~7A/phase, and it is one of the square designs which usually have higher torque for their size
low voltage and bipolar are both good signs
looking to put it on a Taig lathe
it's only ~20W though
I can't tell how big it is
205/8" long, 2-3/8" square, 2 pounds (or kgs??)
err - 2-5/8
are you planning on direct drive?
oh, look, measurements
motors would be another nice thing to arrange a group buy for (but only if the manufacturer will direct-ship, or the discounts are mind-bogglingly big)
well, 1:1 would give me .0003 for full steps. 16tpi leadscrew
with a leadscrew, that motor may be underpowered
since 1/2 of the energy goes into friction
looking at this leadscrew http://www.herbach.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HAR&Product_Code=TM94MEC2601
can't get my damn power light to turn on. (pc network card).. Think it is time to post on ubuntu forum.
jtr: do you think that's acme?
think so. threads look too defined in the pic to be V.
wondered if it might be Kerk
cradek: do you think the motors are bigger than what is on your maxnc?
skunkworks: no, pretty sure mine are bigger
www.adlinktech.com lotsa hdwr (like NI) linux drivers PCIS-DASK/X D2K-DASK/X, WD-DASK/X ( free dload, closed src & very specific to distro)
cradek: what size were the steppers on the first lathe you did threading on?
you've done two now, right?
I think they're the ones sherline sells
Found it...DIN 508 standard...
[16:48:07] <cradek_> http://sherline.com/stepspec.pdf
I think this is what was on that first lathe
9.7 kg-cm is 135 oz-in
what will you drive these with?
I think the motors you found are probably substantially more powerful than what sherline sells
I had been thinking pminmo l297/298 , but that won't do the 7 A these would take.
I think you won't need all of that.
Seems like most of the inexpensive drivers are limited to about 2 or 3 A.
and fairly low voltages
although the L298 will do 40+ v
keep an eye on ebay and find some oem650 drives (compumotor)
they are 6 amp per phase
I would think you could get them for under 50 dollars
wonder if it makes sense to spend more on steppers, and use less expensive drives?
or use 2:1 ratio and lower curent drives
Nope...the drives make steppers even practical...without a good drive, Servos are useless for machining...
steppers that is...
The micro-stepping, is more than just a way to get finer resolution, its a way to control the steppers motion more
accurately, and tune out the nasty resonances they have...
single and half step stepper drives only work well at one speed with a specific load...
on a small machine half stepping is just fine. it's not a high performance application.
If you have varying loads, and need rapids that are, well rapid, you need the micro-stepping...
(when I tried full stepping it barely worked at all)
Figuring this stuff out was the thing that made B.C. Kuo famous, besides his control text books...
* cradek_ shrugs
on a machine that can only move 4" rapids aren't very important, and you can machine all sorts of things with half stepping.
steppers on big machines are a completely different story I'm sure.
There is control dynmics in steppers that is only addressed with micro-stepping drives...
Besides, Gecko's are like what $125 ? saves that much in time
sure - I don't want to argue - but I have cut many, many parts on a half-step (small) machine. That's the application jtr is asking about.
I have the Geckos on the 150 mm Proxon machine here, glad I did that!
Well, the Xylotex offers 1/8 stepping on 3 axis for $125
yes, I think lots of people use xylotex
Micro-stepping is the key....
Might work just fine...
for my motors the 24v limit would be too low, I run my L298 drivers at ~ 42v
but it's still only a few amps. I do understand the concern about resonance.
I m runing 24 v 8 inch floppy ps on my Proxon...
Yea, the higher voltage gives better LR waveform...
cradek: what drives are you running?
The steppers are 7.5 volt, .8 am ...
eholmgren: pminmo L298
Would not reduce voltage much below that 24/7.5 volt ratio...
When a stepper goes from one step to the next, it osillates about the new step, and finally damps to rest...
If the next step is commanded at some non-advantgeous portion of that resonance cycle, the step can skip, or double...
I would be happy to get it running with the L298 and then try different drivers to see what it could really do.
The resonances are hardware related, and totally randomly phase with respect to the drive currents...
So the missed, or doubled steps occur randomly...
sherline runs theirs with those small motors and a unipolar drive. it works if you keep the top speed down to where it still has enough power not to stall.
wb9mjn: so I just have to figure out what the resonant frequency is and stay below it.
Well, typically rapids are above, and cutting is below...
X travel is probably 8 inches if I remove the tailstock...
Staying below all the time is horendously slow, but it depends allot on the resolution you need (screw pitch, force)...
So, the systems that use half and full stepping, shoot through the resonance quick, under low load...
But, its a constant headache in operation...Micro-stepping drives solve all this...
Typically, 8 inches with a .0001 inch resolution system is going to be 1 1/2 to 3 minutes with steppers...
3 minutes to what?
I can run 300 ipm with my setup ;) (steppers)
move the 8 inch distance...What is your resolution ?
brb - lunch calls
oh that's bull.
my resolution is 6400 halfsteps per inch and it rapids at 34ipm
it's 100% reliable, it cuts for hours
Hmm...just never got that to work here...until I went to the Geckos...
you must have been doing something wrong.
Could be, my motors are little small things...
NEMA 23, single stack....
But, that is what would fit on the machine...its small too...
what drives were you trying to use?
Local company made some, so I tried em....
They were chopping single/half step drivers...
pwm current limit?
so bipolar configuration?
The steppers are 4 wire - bipolar configuration...
I'm surprised it didn't work better then
This machine has high friction nuts delrin (?) nuts...
Could be the reason...
mine does too, zero backlash delrin on acme screws
These are european trapezoidal cross section motion screws....
1 mm pitch...
200 steps per rev...
wow 1mm trapezoidal?
Yea, that is what Proxon put on it...
I have never seen trapezoidal/acme that fine
2000 steps / mm ....
This thing was intended for electronics tech, to do modifications to boards, and prototype little stuff...
50800 steps per inch? you sure can't do much with software step generation
you weren't using software step gen were you?
Yep...but it needs the PCI Parallel port, and the 800 MHz Pc....Originally had a 100 MHz PI on it, and it was slow...
cripes, 1mm pitch?
But, with the 800 MHz PIII I could max out the rapids, and get the motors to stall...
what where you using for control software?
That is why I am looking at that Advantch computer....as the 800 MHz PIII is on the servo mill now...
EMC1 BDI 2.2 originally...
Yea, but the microsteps were there just to keep the servos happy...not for any real accuracy...
Microsteps vary in actual angular position by quite allot ...
It has 128 mm X travel, 46 mm Y travel and 57 mm Z travel, after modification to CNC...
I did it more to learn....
It was $250 ....I bought the first one sold in the US, it was actually shipped from the Proxon warehouse, by the
couple that moved over from Germany to run the warehouse....when Proxon started selling stuff in the USA...
I ve done lots of aluminum bits and pieces on it, and some hardened steel very very slow using the AlTiN solid carbide at 15K RPM...
I made all the parts for the conversion on it, and a small drill press...
They emailed me from Germany, saying they would ship when they landed in the USA and opened the warehouse...hi..
I retrofitted the table with RC car ball bearings, rather than the original sleeve bearings, as the sleaves were
getting jamed up with cuttings all the time...
The ways do as well, if you do not protect them....as the cuttings are very fine...
table screw bearings, with ball bearings...
Burned out the spindle motor doing somthing dumb, and retrofitted it with a Foredom motor...
Overloads the Z nut, and need to make a metal one....
Anyway...probably boring you guys on this by now...
It sings quite nicely when its doing rapids....
Part of your system's need for microstepping might be the 7.5V 0.8A motor/24V PS. You've got a lot of L there to overcome.
and not a lot ov V to work with.
But this was an economy effort, and the 8 inch floppy drives were getting scrapped for the metal, and the ps was
I understand it's best if you have 10-15x the steady state voltage on the choppers
so jtr's 3v motors on 30-40v with L298 would probably work great.
It works as it is, and NEVER misses a step....
I have confirmed that on many many occasions....
it would be hard to tell with 1mm pitch ;)
There are some good reference surfaces, and I can measure with a caliper head on those....using a dial
caliper, one can see if the needle moves at all...
dual shaft motors with handwheels are nice for that.
just don't get in the way of the little handle sticking out
These motors are dual shaft, with large radio knobs, and white markings....
It's working - no need to change. It was just a likely explanation for the varying experiences.
So, can see the white markings / and/ or / knob pointer come right back onto the reference marks...
Gotta run, all. Thanks for the input.
Basically, it was a junkbox project, except for the motors, shaft couplers, geckos and the Proxon...
Everthing else was junk box...enclosure is an old fax machine stand turned upside down....lube spray is an old
reading light corrugated metal thing, with a hobby torch spray nose....
Oh, and the waterproof tubing and connectors were bought from DigiKey...about $150 worth of stuf...
The coolant pump is an air pump from an old vacuum bagging setup , that presurizes a gatoraid bottle, and
forces the coolant through tubing to the nozzle....
Coolant drains into a 5 gallon paint pail (garbage picked)...and use a car siphon pump to recharge the gatoraid
Loads of fun, hi...
Off to make lunch...will bring it back to computer in a few minutes....
just took most of the ac servos to the post office...
OK I guess, I got 350eur for three 400W servos
the 1kW went for 110eur which was maybe a bit low
is that more than what you paid?
sure it's more than I paid
that's ok then
but ofcourse if you compare to what they cost new ;)
and you got to play with them :P
* alex_joni knows what they cost
so I try not to compare :P
hopefully the dc servos will be here soon, and Jon Elson said he should have some amps ready for me also in a few days
I need to replace a very small mechanical switch, and it's 50 EUR
found this place from the linux cnc website
something like a pushbutton, round, 9mm diameter, 15mm high, 5mm travel
colin_: good thing, hope it wasn't hard to find :)
50eur seems a bit steep for that
was looking at converting an old cnc mill using mach 3 software
but seeing theres a linux program id like to give that a go first
colin_: if you like to work on things, emc2 might be the free alternative :)
functionality is matched if not way beyond mach3
how does emc2 work on larger machinery ?
depends what is large for you :)
colin: or, if you want to do closed-loop servos, the emc is the _only_ option
hurco mc2 mill
[18:18:28] <alex_joni> http://users.pandora.be/engineering/index_files/page0001.html
and a plasma cutting table
does that count as large?
yeah thats quite big
naah, largish. 10x4x4 m work envelope is large
whats the recomended cam program for emc ?
i have access to delcam powermill and feature cam aswell as mastercam x
you can use any cam program
as long as it produces "standard" g-code
does emc have full 5 axis support ?
colin_: 6 axes
i know the mach software struggled with it coz of kinematics
yeah, that works way better in emc2, although it can be improved
how do your 4th and 5th axes work ?
the thing with emc2 is that when someone comes with a problem along, people (developers) usually jump in and help out :)
i dont have 4 or 5th axis im just being curious at the mo :)
what sorta output systems does emc support at the moment ?
does it do the grex that mach is working on at the moment
i apoligise if its in the documentation im still working through it
there's no grex driver (yet?)
simple systems use the parallell port
more advanced systems usually use a dedicated pci card for I/O
or isa :)
but you don't find many motherboards these days that take those
what sorta hardware control is recomended ?
depends on what you need
i dont mind paying for extra if it means i can run probing and tool change ect
for a closed-loop system you will need dedicated hardware (encoder counters, DACs)
then it depends on what kind of servo drives you are going to use
and also DC (or AC) motors, and encoders
so it depends on your need/budget
lower cost: steppers + parport
slightly more advanced: steppers + USC (board that plugs into parport, but outputs pulses)
middle cost: parport + Gecko 340 + servos (DC max 20A @ 80V), loop is closed in the external driver
higher end: motion control board + servo amps + servo motors + encoders
I'm just in the process of converting from parport+gecko/steppers to control board (m5i20) + pwm servo amps + dc servos
I've had enough parts ruined by lost steps with the stepper system
and the ability to always monitor the following error just seems cool
that is cool
m5i20 is a pretty cheap motion control board, but it doesn't have DAC's or ADC's on it (it's all digital)
+ I envision rigid tapping in the future
ok, I have a challenging problem for the #emc brain-trust
[18:29:21] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/blosxom/shoptask/stickout-12-20-06.html
403 - Forbidden
got a good website for pricing up servos and controllers ?
jmkasunich: when I try to load the bigger pics
alex_joni: the 5i20 does have "dacs", they generate a high frequency and filter it
im getting an old 1980's machine so there probably stepper motors
etla: wrt the mill you have, before you modified it how well could it cut steel?
alex_joni: the 5i20 does have "dacs", they generate a high frequency PWM and filter it
some reference numbers
L_H: it's a small machine, dont count on taking heavy cuts in steel. However if you go slower than in aluminium it will cut steel.
[18:33:04] <colin_> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
jmk: are you using a servo motor to drive the spindle ?
jmkasunich: only way I see if you turn that table around (have the motor in the front)
etla: will be eventually
the mesa looks quite reasonable
etla: oh, so say 6mm endmill, 1mm deep and 100-150mm/min?
jmkasunich: did you get/understand what I meant?
L_H: maybe... with lots of flood coolant and a good endmill
not the prettiest thing though :/
2nd to last paragraph, I already though about turning it around
oh.. missed that :)
I'm hoping somebody has a brainstorm ;-)
jmk: that one has a vertical spindle too ?
yeah, a milling head
(removed at the moment
etla: ok, what is the surface finish that you can get if you have a good mill and don't really care about machining time?
jmkasunich: vertical motor (implies some gearing)
gearing implies backlash unfortunately
you can probably get gears which are adjustable till backlash free
I should probably investigate that before I just rule it out
L_H: it's hard to say. In the beginning (2003 or so) we were quite unskilled, didn't use flood coolant correctly - so we did not get great results. Now that we changed the spindle (new bearings etc.) it's quite good in aluminium
I see you can still move the machine forward quite a bit
is there something like pastebin for pictures, I could show you some small parts
etla: imageshack.us maybe?
turning the motor would get me 4"
L_H: I'll try
otherwise you can upload them to my ftp server
whichever is easiest
alex_joni: yes, I could move it forward, maybe 6-8"
unbelievable the adverts that come up on imageschak...
would start to get crowded in the operating position if I went any more than that
I don't notice them as I have adblock
[18:40:23] <etla> http://img119.imageshack.us/my.php?image=puomihelaosafu1.jpg
and that would still mean a really awkwardly designed guard in the back
hey, not bad
the bigger hole is 3mm, and the outer diameter around that is 7mm. the smaller hole is 2mm
8" forward, means 2" in the back?
how did you fixture them while milling the outside
first most of the machining is done from the top
then you turn the stock around, and it fits in a jig
alex_joni: do you mean "move the entire bench forward" (what I thought) or "move the machine forward on the bench" ?
move the machine on the bench
and then you cut away the unneccessary stock with a face-mill
the hole at 90degrees needs to be done separately later
oh, that reminds me, how large a facemill is usuable in the mill?
alex_joni: 5" would put the machine right at the front edge of the bench
ok, so 5" in the back
we have a 40mm, but even with the modded 750W induction motor we would like to have more torque
I really don't want to do that - weight distribution on the bench, loss of that little front space where I put tools and such
that's not that much (in my understandings of imperial measurements) :)
now it takes 0,25 or 0,5mm deep cuts in aluminium OK if we run the spindle at 3000rpm
I need to keep an open mind though
would probably need a vector VFD to run at any lower rpm
jmkasunich: put a sheet of metal under it (extends the bench with 5" in the front)
you can compare the finish on those, to some earlier parts with the old spindle: http://www.anderswallin.net/2006/11/cnc-machined-tiller-arms/
but remember that we have run the old spindle down quite bad, it won't be that bad on a new BF20 spindle
my blog post also shows how we do that kind of small parts
etla: ooh, nice
was this done on the acme screws or ballscrews?
we're kind of half way in the conversion, so the Z-axis has linear guides and a ballscrew, X and Y are the stock dovetail ways and stock acme screws
ok, and they work well enough for simple stuff?
etla: didn't know you did RC sailboats
I made one a long time ago (~20 yrs) when I still lived in an apartment
jmk: now you know ;)
how big is a noux?
It's an IOM, or international one metre, so the hull is 1000mm maximum. the keel depth max is 420mm and the tallest rig is about 1600mm high. minimum weight 4kg of which 2.5kg in the keel
I didn't know much when I did mine - I made it only 600mm long, so its very tender (displacement and ability to carry ballast goes as the cube of length)
scaled the lines from a drawing of a fullsized boat in a book, so the hull shape isn't that good for scale either
yes, but the trend internationally over the years has been for smaller and smaller boats. I guess people want to fit them into their homes and cars comfortably
model boats usually have much deeper keels and bigger rudders
mine is scale, until you get to the keel
then a big fin with a bulb on the bottom
we got some bulb moulds cnc milled for us a few years back...
now with the BF20 upgrade we should get 500mm of X movement which means we can do fin and bulb moulds in aluminium
here's some bulb stuff: http://www.anderswallin.net/2003/05/making-a-bulb/
etla: oh, you don't have the long version of the bf20?
L_H: the long one is a quite recent model, it wasn't available when we bougt
etla: was it hard to make the Z axis stepper controlled?
is there lots of deadplay (?) in it?
when we had the acme screw we just replaced the handle with the motor
oh, just a motor powerful enough
yeah, backlash probably up to 0,5mm
with the ballscrew we have it direct drive, i.e. the motor is at the end of the ballscrew
there's probably an old pic on my blog, wait...
does it jump around when milling (glapp) or was it just backlash?
here's a pic of the original setup http://www.anderswallin.net/2004/11/cnc-milling-of-mdf-plug/
it probably doesn't jump around if you take reasonable cuts
Note the Z-counterweight, it's absolutely essential if you use small/medium steppers
I think ours are 280Ncm holding torque
where'd you get them?
the steppers were from a local company www.oem.fi I think, the are made by MAE
dammit, I keep forgetting to set permissions
jmk: nice, does look like quite a small boat.
hmm, I get denied
403 - forbidden
for the large images
try again, just fixed it
now it's ok
so is jmkasunich.dyndns.org up all the time ? the url sounds a bit suspicious ?
where's the motor?
etla: dyndns is a service for users with non-static ip addresses
dyndys is a service that does DNS for folks like me whose ISP doesn't provide a static IP
alex: believe it or not that's a common question when people come to see our races !
when my dsl IP changes, dyndys updates within 20 mins or so
etla: I was kidding :)
jmk: right. so I might add a link from my blog to yours :)
jmkasunich: what happened to the rudder?
it got broken off
or do you adjust the saiö's COF instead?
oh, that's not that fun
thats when the boat got retired
I had fun making the rigging, the cleats and such
in the deck view you can see the rudder pushrod and rudderhead
dang, its very dusty - I should clean more often ;-)
the deck is mahogany (can't tell from the pics, but its very pretty)
there's a guy in finland who has made wooden IOMs, let me get you a link
[19:09:31] <etla> http://picasaweb.google.com/kai.martonen/BuildingAnTripleCrownIOM
yeah, a lot of hours go into those
carbon fiber rudder ;-)
when I built mine, I was single, bored, and had no internet
carbon is allowed for the fin and the rudder
I think it took about 4-5 months, working 3-5 hours most evenings
no way to make a 5 or 6mm thick fin that is 400mm long and can support a 2.4kg bulb from plywood or similar
hey one emc related question while we are chatting OT ;)
IIRC, my fin has maybe 6mm square basswood spar, some smaller spars fwd and aft, filled in with balse, then skinned with 1/64" (~0.4mm) ply
I recently installed vmware under windows and ran ubuntu and emc2 on it - that was fun and will enable me to develop bits and pieces on my laptop
or maybe the main spar is brass tube, set into the lead
don't remember now
in the shop with the mill computer it would be nice the other way around: run ubuntu for most of the time, but run vmware and windows under that in order to run the CAM programs
anyone tried that ?
etla: it works
I have a win95 VM under ubuntu to run easycad
but haven't tried newer doze
etla: but you still need a license for the doze inside the VM
(and won't, because of licensing)
and the newer vista doesn't allow running inside a VM
unless you get the real expensive version
win 2000 still has sane licensing - I'd go with that if I needed a modernish winders
XP would probably be fine
not sure you can still get that
cradek_: win2k that is
nope XP calls home for activation
alex_joni: yeah, not new...
cradek_: so what? you're allowed to activate it from the VM
cradek_ is now known as cradek
we really need an opensource CAM program ;)
because I don't want to do that
I think it's a bogus requirement
cradek: weeell.. there are workarounds
yeah, use free software
get an XP with SP1
and upgrade via internet, there are certain steps to follow so that it won't do that
glad I don't need it :-)
oh wait, that's for the authenticity testing
not for activation
anyways, m$ is going in a very good direction
each version is worse then the predecessor, licenses get worse, people get more and more upset
they keep buying it...
most big companies won't upgrade to vista
they will when they start getting office 2008 documents in email and office 2008 only runs on vista
heh.. actually office 97 (very wide spread) doesn't run on vista anymore
and they simply pop up a dialog and say: go buy a newer one
my office still uses office 97 and I'm starting to get complaints
I'm going to try switching to openoffice before buying dozens of new office licenses
the only problem I have with OO is that it's way slower
on the same box I mean
I don't care - I don't use it :-)
you don't.. but your users will whine
they whine anyway
[19:27:11] <alex_joni> http://www.robcon.ro/emc/IMG_9342.JPG
you only have to get used to it once
oops is that a trade secret? :-)
what are the irregular shapes?
they are regular :P
the irregular part are shadows
[19:29:12] <alex_joni> http://www.robcon.ro/emc/IMG_9346.JPG
how are you progrmaming that?
skunkworks: teach in
or writing offsets from the first point teached
or offline programming
I think you should convert it to emc and use kins ;)
skunkworks: one day :)
skunkworks: see that teach pendant?
skunkworks: wouldn't wanna build that :D
the servos are CAN based, with interpolation in the drive
I am a little upset your torching on those tables
skunkworks: there's a 1mm thick aluminum plate on the table
you can see it in the last picture
that one is easily replaceable
was the holder what you drew up in alibre?
torch head holder
same for the pins :)
jmkasunich, can you swap the motor to the other side of the saddle but leave the machine in the same orientation?
err - table, not saddle
you mean put the motor in the front?
but leave the spindle motor accessible
then it will stick out into the belly of the machine operator
same as rotating the machine 180, but this leaves the spindle/drawbar stuff accessib;e
motor on the front would stick out 4" beyond the bench with the table all the way back, and 15" with the table all the way forward
plus it would block front access to the T-slots
I actually found a source of spiral bevel gears, 2:1 ratio would cost about $75 for the set
another option, which would limit the saddle travel (with the tailstock attached) is to mount the motor parallel to the table, instead of sticking out from it
not sure how accurate they'd be, probably add backlash and other errors
you mean so the motor comes between table and tailstock?
like the elrod machine "space saver" mount for BP-alikes
can't do that - there have been times when even the axis lock handle (maybe 1") has been too much - can't get close enough to the tailstock end of the part to do the work
that is a problem in general with this kind of machine - a real lathe has a narrower cross-slide and a tailstock that exends farther
well, unless you change the motor mounting, the total envelope of the machine won't change
right - I was looking for ideas for changing the motor mounting
the bevel gear approach would make the motor parallel to the spindle, pointing at (but behind) the tailstock
change it to a linear 3-phase motor? ;)
heh, I used to have one of those
a bit big though, from what I remember
but they were more for pic-n-place
maybe 30-40 lbs force tops
fast rather than strong
right. sigh - always a tradeoff
direct drive could save about 2.5", at the expense of resolution
unless it's a 1:1 drive
with the existing 10 tpi acme screws, I have 40000 micro-steps per inch, but when I change to ballscrews (5tpi) it will be only 20000 usteps per inch
and since a ustep isn't "real" (reliable increment of motion) I don't want to lose any more
are you willing to lose machining envelope?
this axis is the most critical IMO, because diameters are the most critical things you do on a lathe
depends how much
one step motor length ...
mount the motor under the table
that sounds like a lot
get a shorter motor?
I missed it - what's wrong with sticking out the back?
the table has to be pulled out from the wall
thats a lot - the travel is only 11"
and the shield to protect everything behind it has to be that much bigger
SWPadnos: it's already out from the wall
oh, that seems minor compared to these other sacrifices
the problem is hanging a guard out 10" behind the back of the bench
that motor isn't the real one, lemme get a URL for the one I intend to get
[20:00:54] <jmkasunich> http://www.kelinginc.net/KL34H295-43-8B.pdf
about the same overall length as the one I have on there now
that back shaft won't help much
could cut it off
they list a single shaft one with the same torque rating, but no electrical specs
I chose that one because it is low voltage and low inductance, should have good high speed performance
if the single shaft one is the same I could use it
maybe I should just find a 10" deep box for my electrical stuff, and mount the guard to the top of the box
I was thinking about a run to HGR today to look for a box, but I spend too much time farting around
have to go tomorrow
I need to be sure I understand what size I need before I go anyway
lots of crap has to go in that box
hmmm - I guess I should get this email off to Pete W soon
PC mobo, hard disk, mesa board and interface cards, geckos, gecko power supply, spindle drive (eventually), contactors to connect either mill or lathe motor to spindle drive, ....
I fired up Corel Draw (you might use EasyCAD) to lay out the cabinet design
yeah, will do that
just draw circles and rectangles of the right size, and play with it
I have a 30 x 24 x 10 cabinet, and I
but forst I gotta figure out how big the pieces are
I have a 30 x 24 x 10 cabinet, and I'm not sure it's big enough
this is for your bport?
I'll probably put some things on the cabinet door
and I'm not planning on putting the computer or VFD in it
getting heat out of the box is an issue too
I should go to work and bring home my current best candidate for the VFD power stage
and keeping particulates out of the cabinet while still letting heat out is even harder
right - I'm aiming for sealed, with most heatsources other than the PC mounted on heatsinks with fins outside the box
and you may be able to get a low power PC motherboard that will still be able to do RT (not sure though)
darn, too small: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=01-899-422&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0
holy crap, enclosures are relatively cheap surplus
48x48x12 two door hoffman for $99
30x36x11 for $50
hmmm - maybe that second one would be good for me ...
that's about what I paid for mine as well, including the backplate
shipping would suck
jmkasunich: the kerney and trecker has 2 right angle bevel gears to get power to the axis. One on the z and y axis. (we are hoping to be able to remove them)
I think it was only $10 for this one, from AZ
(shipping, that is)
skunkworks: the more I think about bevel gears the less I like them
backlash city, I think
the motor is 3.4" wide, and about 4" long
the mount currently adds 2.5" to the length, but that could be reduced with some creativity to maybe 1.5"
so bevel gears reduce 5.5 to 3.4
not enough of a gain to be worth the money and loss of accuracy
oh. HGR is open until 5, I thought they closed at 4
I should go today
if only there were any industrial surplus within 100 miles of me... sigh
I had been thinking of "how small (cheap) of a box can I fit all my stuff in"
I should be thinking "how big of a box can I mount on the back of the bench" ;-)
go for the depth - you can mount things "vertically" from the backplate (like power supplies and stuff)
except I need access
I have 31" from the back of the bench to the shelves, etc
sure, but a toroid can be a medium-sized rectangle instead of a big circle ...
cabinet depth subtracts from that
and I gotta be able to open the door(s)
unless I put nothing on the doors, and make sure they're removable
but the motor hangs out 10", so that's "free"
the ideal box is 10" deep, with double doors (so they're not huge)
I could move the whole machine 4-6" forward if I absolutely have to (groan)
26x30x10 plastic? $39
no specific reason, just ick :)
its sturdy plastic, NEMA 12 by the look of it
but I agree
I like the grounding and shielding of metal
yeah, and hot chips and stuff
plastic is also better at holding in heat (but doesn't handle it as well)
right - wouldn't like hot chips much
ok, I'm off
still in the uk?
nope, in the US now
nice.. back home?
got in last night
still in jet-lag?
not too bad, actually
I went to bed early (like 11:00 or so)
only 95 more emails to go through ...
heh .. that's almost nothing :)
95 left - there were 600+ this morning
only 300 or so were spam, too
that sounds like the way it should be :/
if I ever have the chnace to meet mr Epson, I would shake hime warmly by the hand
at least that way I have hold of him when I give him a well-deserved kicking :)
poxy printer has gone off because the internal counters have decided the waste ink pads are full
worse, the only way to reset them is with some service software thats only given to approved service centres
obviously I foounbd it on the net
so you're an approved service center now?
now I just need to find a DOS based PC to make it happen :(
you are so funny :)
that free-dos thing
well, it doesnt actually work does it
I run autocad on freedos
I wasted a few days setting up a box with freedos a while ago
networking seemed too hard for it ... and it refused to do the graphics and talking to the serial port well, no it refused to do that too
I don't think you need network for a printer
no .. that was for something else
dos doesn't do graphics or serial. typically apps talk directly to the hardware.
I do networking in freedos just fine (using the old ms lanman client)
I think you just don't remember how bad dos is :-)
well, the program kept whining about not being able to find some dos graphics thing if I remember
it's unlikely that was a problem specific to freedos, but I'd try to help if you have more details
neither of these seem to work under the winxp dos window thing
winxp blocks that kind of hardware access - few old dos apps will actually run
they do work fine under Win95 dos thing though .. .like I have a win95 box anymore :(
or is that :) ...
yes win95 pretty much let that stuff work
same for 98 and me
suprised there isnt some sort of hardware emulator for XP for dos based old crap
there is - it's vmware
what good would that do?
robin_sz: there are things you can install to allow for port access
woo whooo - fwcutter works - ndiswrapper didn't
vmware might actually be able to give them access to serial ports etc.
anyone know of a app to help with roaming WPA wifi?
alex_joni, youre right!!! ther are things to let it talk to the port!!
[21:27:51] <robin_sz> http://www.beyondlogic.org/porttalk/porttalk.htm
yeah, that's what I was about to paste
I remember working with some sys and dll's to make it work
had a version of EMC that worked on the parport from XP at one point (way ago)
back in the days when windows seemed like a good idea?
I wonder if I ought to try freedos again ?
if I remember, the biggest pain was installing the thing
[21:31:33] <alex_joni> http://www.logix4u.net/inpout32.htm
that's what I used
hmm, that doesn't work
search for Microsoft Network Client Version 3.0 for MS-DOS
makes two floppies
of course you need a supported network card (pretty much anything from the right era works)
it says there is a LiveCD version of DOS soemwhere
that seems a little hard to believe, but maybe it's possible
I used to netboot dos (using a netboot eprom on an isa network card)
actually used to run the maxnc mill that way!
netboot dos or netboot freedos?
it was real ms dos at the time (years ago)
presumably I just need a eprom programmer to do that?
or can you buy eproms?
if you know what you're doing (and I doubt I still do) you could netboot freedos
I burned my own...
modern network cards don't even have sockets anymore, doubt anyone sells them
used to be ALL network cards had boot rom sockets
I dont think I have a prom balster anymore
I think I netbooted linux too, but linux could never swap over the network, so it's little use
so .. back to freedos then
sigh .. children refusing to go to bed ... I should beat them more often ;)
now, wheres my electric cattle prod ...
jmkasunich: That's easy -just move the bench 10" closer to the drill press.
* jtr cuts and runs
oops - didn't realize the conversation had gone past the shoptask table motor discussion.
* jmkasunich is back from HGR
what did you bring us?
on the way back, I was behind a car with the license plate "BFG 9K" ;-)
scored nicely, pics and details in a few mins
cradek: they do sell cards with boot rom sockets..
the score: http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/blosxom
nice, especially the breakout
if I have a space crunch in the big box, I can mount the little one either beside it near the tailstock end of the machien, or on the end of the bench under the headstock, and cram some more stuff in there
looks plenty big unless you end up with a huge motherboard
I'm not so sure
the PC is the tip of the iceberg
geckos (small), gecko power supply (not small), spindle VFD (not small at all), contactors to connect either lathe or mill motor to the VFD, other contactors and relays for estop, etc, plus wiring (which takes space if you want it to be neat and easily serviced)
I want to maintain separation between 120/240V wiring, especially the PWM wiring to the motors, and the signal/PC stuff too
I had my eyes on a 36x36 box, which would just barely fit under the stepper with the bottom 1" from the ground, but decided that not being able to open the door all the way would suck
this one _almost_ opens all the way, I have to move the bench an inch or two forward