there was some cerinese (sp) in the soup...
licorish (sp) taste... ick.
python is really neat
my python is really big
point? set? match?
A-L-P-H-A: I know you are a liar, but that's ok.. everyone isnt ashamed of the real size..
usually it's the ones with microscopic ones that has to talk about them all the time to compensate
nah... I got a normal sized penis, probably on the short end of normal, but it's thick. :)
like I care.
then why'd you ask for pictures?
don't dream about me too much. :)
I have a serial port in python :D
jepler: do you know the rest of the pinout of my version of the pluto?
cradek: I think I like python lots..
cradek: what were the file I can look in for the nml stuff?
anonimasu: 'emcmodule' is a python module for sending nml stuff - look in mdi.py to see how it's used
it's very simple to use, it's how AXIS communicates with emc
I think I'll have the plc keypad working tomorrow with a bit of luck :)
it sends serial commands?
well, with some code on the plc to do it..
yeah it should be easy to get functions into emc then
you realize it's not realtime right? It's just like the user interface
ok just checking
I dont need realtime..
spindle on/off stuff dosent need to be..
but if you want to jog/home/spindle with it, it's perfect
that's what I'll do
toolchanging later on
but im going to use it as output only for now
and run the estop on it..
hmm that doesn't sound so good then
oh, it's a matter of writing the code at the pc side..
estop should stop the machine without any help from the computer
yeah, but computer/plc would be a different beast..
still not deicded how I should do it.. so.. )
seems like a good estop setup can be very challenging
yeah.. it's kind of disturbing..
seems like you cant kill off your drives either just like that..
i fin the middle of a move and you loose power to the drives without slowing down with the spindle rotating..
or a rapid..
cradek: pretty much the major thing in CE stuff is that there has to be a ESTOP that overrides all other systems..
yeah it seems better if your spindle doesn't stop as fast as the motion...
although who really cares if you break off a tool, when life/limb/iron might be at stake
it's a hard issue..
since my spindle is huydralic it takes about 0.1 secs to stop..
Pete W's talk about detecting runaway is interesting. I wonder if anyone will do that.
I havent seen it
though im interested..
I think the executive summary is if your pid is on all the way for very long, it's probably runaway
or if it's on very long without the encoder count changing? something like that
that shouldnt be a pain to implement..
gain should be almost infinite right?
when in a runaway condition..
if an encoder breaks during motion emc will immediately stop... it would be a little harder to get runaway with a real closed loop system
with feedback to emc?
but still possible it seems (if emc thinks there is no motion it will not trigger a FE)
it's possible if the encoder dies dont you think
since the axis isnt moving..
with geckos servos act like that..
they run away when a encoder drops, away
yeah I can't imagine using a big machine without real feedback -- scary
10m/min rapids, and a runaway..
emc's FE is so useful
im looking at mdi.py
if you even just cut too deep, it can know to stop
though I dont get it where you add the emcmodule
is that a globally installed thing?
depends how you're set up
hm, running head and a standard emc..
I think that path.insert stuff at the top makes it work for run-in-place
it adds to the import search path
I think that means to add ../lib/python
and you need to call mdi.py with a nml file?
yeah, it might default to something otherwise, not sure
if len(sys.argv) > 1:
emc.nmlfile = sys.argv
that's how it looks..
though "import emc" might
Port selected: /dev/ttyS0
Entering main program loop
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/home/an0n/python/communicate.py", line 24, in ?
emc.error: emcStatusBuffer invalid
I guess that's a good result for a few hours of coding..
more like one hour of active coding
is emc running? did you give it the right nml file?
no, im not running emc :)
but it's trying to connect
and it's in 100 lines less then in c :)
if you're only sending commands, you don't need the stat stuff
dont you need to check that it really happens?
or does the lib assure that?
not sure what you mean
I think the message will get sent or you will get an error
I remember the tcl feed override bar :D
you dont happen to remember the command to select a axis for jog?
I only _thought_ I was on vacation
* jmkasunich is tired
a lot of progress today?
yes and no
not much visible
but the saddle is smoother and more precise than it was
[02:01:27] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/blosxom/index.html
just finished cleaning up the mess for about the 20th time today
anonimasu: you'll have to look at the source, or axis.py
doing that right now..
I found a trick for adjusting the gibs
tighten the gib screw down pretty tight - tight enough that you can't move the carriage at all
then when you tighten the locknut, it pulls back on the gib screw and loosens things up just enough to let it move
the final adjustment is made with the locknut, not the screw
just like adjusting valves...
car engine valves?
never did that
I hate working on cars
cradek: I found it :)
cars are interesting machines too
cars are dirty and rusty and you usually have to stand on your head and bend just so to get at the rusty bolt
which then breaks off
I thought you said you didn't work on them :-)
I've worked on them enough to know I don't like it
I'm that way with Windows
windows is a rusty bolt!
now if I could just find out where "vars" comes from ;)
anonimasu: don't try to understand too much of axis.py - it'll come to no good
vars has to do with the on-screen widgets
cradek: yeah, though im trying to find out where you set the tool ;)
back up and tell me what are you actually trying to do
I'm looking for the command where you select what axis you want to jog..
using the jogwheel stuff..
it shows a wireless card - but I can't activate it :)
that's a hal problem
the jogwheel is done in RT
its a start
and the axis is selected by hal pins, not by the GUI
yeah, but selecting what axis you want to jog isnt right?
anonimasu: the jog nml command takes an axis number -- that's unrelated to jogwheel
ok, and how do you do it then?
I'm trying to avoid building a big pendant for jog ;)
do what, the nml or the jogwheel?
jmkasunich: programatically selecting what axis you want to jog in..
something has to fiddle the hal pins to tell it which axis to move when you turn the wheel
is there stuff to interface hal pins from python?
the best way would be a rotary switch hooked to some inputs
05 s32 IN 0 axis.0.jog-counts
05 bit IN FALSE axis.0.jog-enable
05 float IN 0.000000 axis.0.jog-scal
anonimasu: yeah there's a hal module too :-)
hook your encoder to jog-counts, set jog-scale to distance per count, and set jog-enable true
jmkasunich: yeah, that migh I've gathered :)
can you use a global jogwheel? one for all axes?
just by changing enable..
you can send the counts from a single jogwheel to all the jog-counts pins
and having the input linkes to all encoders..
then set one enable at a time
of you're really perverse, you could set two enables at once and jog at 45 degrees ;-)
jmkasunich: I bet dad would love that..
or any other angle if you set the scales properly
but I don't recommend that. it's stupid.
hm, that's a interesting thing to do on the plc..
seems like printing in halcmd got borked a little
float pin names no longer line up with bit and s32 pin names
looks like some wrong tabs in there
cradek: kind of scary :D
cradek: thanks for pointing me at python!
it's probably the best way to script emc/hal right now
I think someone was in there fixing its tendency to use scientific notation all the time, and busted the tabs in the process
you can do the nml part in tcl just as well, but no hal support
seems the easiest way...
* jmkasunich looks in the direction of nebraska
* cradek whistles
cradek: I guess I'll settle for homing so far..
* jmkasunich investigates
yeah that sure does look bad doesn't it...
it's 03:18 right now..
hal is tomorrows beast
I need to call the doctor at 08:00 tomorrow morning
I'll regret this
you mean 8:00 this morning don't you?
like 4:40 from now
may as well stay up now
cradek: it wasn't you, it was jeff
but he copied my code
cradek: yeah, would almost be easier, but as I'd like to get some work done tomorrow I need sleep :)
* cradek offers skunkworks a network cable
and thanks for the help
cradek: I'm seeing something screwy with snprintf
halcmd: setp pid.0.Pgain 1234567.89
halcmd: show param pid.0.Pgain
Owner Type Dir Value Name
06 float RW 1234568 pid.0.Pgain
snprintf(buf, 14, "%12.7g", v);
its allowed to use up to 12 spaces, so why isn't it printing 1234567.89?
An optional precision, in the form of a period (`.') followed by an optional decimal digit string. Instead of a decimal digit string one
may write `*' or `*m$' (for some decimal integer m) to specify that the
it's hard to paste from a manpage
for %g, the number after the dot is the number of significant digits
even when its working in "f" mode?
yes %f and %g are different
I was interpreting g as "use f or e, whichever makes more sense"
do you have man 3 printf? I don't have it on ubuntu for some reason
yeah, I have it
IIRC I had to install a package to get it
what package is it in?
libc-doc or gcc-doc or something, don't recall
glibc-doc I think
can you do dpkg -S printf.3
I still don't have it after installing both of those
anyway, looks like g can replace that if and the two different sprintf invocations
cradek: manpages-dev: /usr/share/man/man3/printf.3.gz
duh, I should have used apt-file
I just got the same answer
cradek: as for the pluto pinout, I'll see if I can figure it out...
jepler: I should use your standard pinout anyway, don't bother
cradek: are you still able to do it with a single connector?
jepler: I think we figured out yes
jepler: does your pluto get hot when running plutotest.hal (siggen to pwm?)
huh, I don't get that
jmk: nice details about the scraping on the blog, thanks, I gotta do the same
its a pain in the rear to be honest
cradek: did jeff really copy that code from something you did?
yeah I put it in halscope first
(complete with the buffer overrun bug? ;-)
snprintf(buf, 24, "%e", v);
24 should be 14, the buffer is 15 bytes
on a small lathe, think HSS bits can cut Ti Grade 5?
its right in one place, wrong in the other
hmm, be sure to fix it in all three? places then
do you recall which halscope source file, or should I just check the logs
sorry I don't
man I suck
jmkasunich: the bugs I've written
err I meant halmeter
cool, thats only one file
but I don't see the change...?
did you find it?
ahh, the buffer was 25 chars in halmeter
so, jeff didn't copy the bug, he fixed it (at least on of the two places he copied the code to)
does that mean I can write 8 lines of C code without royally screwing it up?
wow, that makes me at least 8x better than most
but one line (with "%g" would have worked as well I think ;-)
03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/ (halcmd.c meter.c): fixed column alignmemt of displayed values, prettified display of floats
those fixes seem reasonable to backport to 2.1 don't you think?
03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/ (halcmd.c meter.c): fixed column alignment of displayed values, prettified display of floats (backport from head)
(double)*((float *) valptr)?
did you do that on purpose?
not sure how printf would react to being given float when it expects a double
valptr is ptr to void, because it can be any of several types
I'm wondering in particular about the intermediate cast to float
so the first cast is needed, that is the type of data actually stored in memory at the pointer
oh I see, you stuck a float in it earlier
that is really screaming for a union
I don't know enough to say whether it can be simplified
yeah, or another language altogether
* cradek pushes jmkasunich's buttons
I'm happy, thats the first commit I've made in a while
makes me feel all usefull and stuff
I think my next project is scrapping the cubix box
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/serport.comp: include headerfile for EBUSY etc
I'm gonna be taking stuff to the scrap dealer tomorrow, might as well add that thing to the pile
bonus - HGR is near the scrap dealer, i think I'll go browing
you know, get rid of some (s)crap, bring home new crap
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_servo_firmware/ (.cvsignore pluto_servo.qpf pluto_servo.qsf quad.v servo.v):
include verilog source and quartus files for pluto_servo firmware
add rules to rebuild the firmware header file when the firmware is rebuilt
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/ (rbf2h.py Submakefile pluto_servo_rbf.h):
include verilog source and quartus files for pluto_servo firmware
add rules to rebuild the firmware header file when the firmware is rebuilt
the cast to (double) is unneeded but not harmful
C will automatically promote a float argument to double when it is the argument to a varargs function
it seems such a shame to throw this thing away
(the cubix box, former compile farm)
you could explode it
I could shoot it, but I don't have anyplace that would let me do that
all the ranges I go to have boring old "paper targets only" riles
anybody need a gigabyte of ram?
only hitch is that its in 32Meg sticks
made a Ti ring now!
and I think I developed a blister using the stupid hand cranks (which are just steel hardened pins, with not spinner.
I think I'll turn some handles for my machine in the next little while.
looking for remote terminal for emc? maybe this used fujitsu touch screen http://www.halted.com/commerce/ccp20981-fujitsu-pencentra-130-pen-tablet-computer-pencentra-130-80797.htm
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_servo_firmware/ (pluto_servo.rbf .cvsignore):
add GPL to pluto_servo.comp
make it clear that _rbf.h is a generated file, not source code
include the .rbf file to make make happy (because _rbf.h depends on it)
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/ (pluto_servo.comp pluto_servo_rbf.h rbf2h.py):
add GPL to pluto_servo.comp
make it clear that _rbf.h is a generated file, not source code
include the .rbf file to make make happy (because _rbf.h depends on it)
fun with junk - put a 60mm fan (old CPU fan) over the hose of a shopvack
I wish I could measure the speed - its very very fast
I avoided cutting titanium, for the scare that it's some sacred metal... I dunno why. it's not that bad to machine... really nice long ribbons get cut from it
my understanding was that it would work harden. like 316 SS
jmkasunich, no problems here... I used wd-40, and some tapping fluid as coolant.
make lots of smoke, but nothing blued.
no discolouring of any kind.
the more and more I look at the ring, the more I like it.
I want to chamfer the edges, but I'll wait till I plug the steppers back in, to do identical chamfers on both edges.
it's a thick ring... 17.5mm ID x 21.5mm OD x 7.2mm
2mm thick walls is a little thick.
I think I'd like it to do it 1.5mm or 1mm next time.
[06:57:35] <ejholmgren> http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/tls/250832447.html
close to you?
dang, 2am again
gotta stop doing that
I made a Ti ring.
after wearing it for a few hours, I hardly notice it anymore
sorry.. was away :) been welding a bit
[13:24:30] <skunkworks> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150072368418&fromMakeTrack=true
although the 50 taper would be nice
how much does a toolholder cost?
ours is a k&t strait shank design. Don't think any one sells them.
Our brown and sharp manual mill has a 50taper
brown and sharp. what a name ;)
power feeds all around though
mechanical power feeds - all done with universal joints and drive shaftsw
The thing has one knob that goet through all the feed rates. like 1/3 imp 1 ipm ... (yes it has fractional ipm printed on it)
good morning guys
skunkworks: pluto_servo is now all in the emc cvs, but it's still cradek's special pinout
I tried to change it to the pinout I've been showing in the docs, but it was behaving oddly
perhaps I just got a pin number wrong somewhere
good morning jeff
Is there a pinout posted some where?
skunkworks: There's this: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_servo_firmware/pluto_servo.qsf?rev=1.1
it gives the acex pin number for each signal I explicitly assigned, which you can map to the connector pins with the information in the pluto Getting Started PDF
e.g., set_location_assignment PIN_38 -to din
Tha works - thanks
don't build anything too permanent based on that pinout
* alex_joni yawns
why is every one yawning?
it's close to 4 pm here
going home soon
it is 7:50a here... I should be the one yawning ;)
jepler: I am glad your not out a pluto.
I'm glad I'm not out on Pluto
so the resets have been consistant now on cradek computer?
iirc there was issues with setting the outputs to tristate when emc exited. (something like that)
jepler: is it still getting pretty hot?
skunkworks: mine does, chris's doesn't. Not sure why.
really need to hook mine up ;)
skunkworks: the pluto now resets and tristates all pins on exit on all the machines where we've tried it (3 of 'em)
for mine - tristating isn't a problem if I can get the pluto to drive the optos. the pull up resister will not come into play.
cradek needs the digital output he's using as amp enable to be pulled down, which should just involve adding a stronger pull-down resistor to that line
Right - I read a little of that earlier
warm fuzzies - warm fuzzies again.. (emc2)
I take it a 20kohm pull-up isn't enough to turn on your optos? That's nearly 200uA
no - mine reqire atleast 5ma iirc
they are rated at 15ma
I have not tested to see where they break over.
oh duh -- I wrote the correct thing but I was thinking it was 200mA
* jepler bangs his face on the LCD
got half the plc code written :)
so what's holding you back?
sounds like it puts one to sleep
* jmkasunich yawns
im still sitting at work..
yeah, it's easy code.. so, it's tedious
writing the routine for throwing stuff off the serialport now
but, first another coke.
now - is coke coke - or does it just mean a carbinated beverage?
though you might enjoy that other stuff,,
what do I know; )
here in the midwest it is a pop
people look at you funny say in the south when you ask for a 'pop'
it works.. neatly..
im going to go home the test this at the mill :)
with nml commands..
though I know they work as I tried them earlier :)
pretty much plug in set up nml stuff and use
[18:32:02] <LawrenceG> http://members.shaw.ca/cncstuff/emc.html
hmmmm.. I think it needs an update :}
somehow apt-get install emc-axis seems much easier.... thanks guys
so, is there any way to mill out large circles? G2/G3 doesn't work very well ;-)
running a 2.2 kernel are we?
no longer... but that pc is still on the shelf under the shoptask...
a 486 with scsi drive!
ChrisSmol: why doesn't g2/g3 work?
(use i and j not r for complete circles) - and for everything else (r sucks) ;)
aha, i was using r
i'll try again with i and j
back in a bit - off to the scrap dealer
ahh scrap. i need to find a scrap dealer.
tested the plc and the pc now works great ^_^
why does using r produce such horrible circles?
ChrisSmol: define horrible
well - for complete circles - the start and finish point is the same location. so with just R you can have an infanant number of circles.
R works ok except for bad cases, which are arcs near 180 or 360 degrees (circles)
for a full circle you must use IJ to specify the center, otherwise like skunkworks says, the circle you underspecified (with one point on the circle and a radius) can be anywhere
it's not quite anywhere, but there are still unnumbered circles possible
btw, i got my d-sub's cut out, thanks
with IJ format you specify one point on the circle and the center, which gives you one specific circle
welcome, glad I could help
i re-worked them to put the origin in the center of the d-sub
Ah, so it's here it happens.
so, do you think i'll be able to make a decent looking 2" dia circle using a 1/8" tool?
ChrisSmol: sure why not?
ok, i'll give it a try. i'm still new at this ;-)
The machining. ;)
I often cut features of all different sizes with the same small tool (including holes, so they end up in the right place)
myp: we only talk about it
I dream of it.
in here :)
although I must say this channel is getting more and more swedish :))
I think there are 4? other swedes in here
i'm running 2.0.4 now, should i rush to install emc 2.0.5?
ChrisSmol: not much difference, a small bugfix
ChrisSmol: should go without problems
ChrisSmol: if you use G92 offsets you should install it. the update is perfectly safe.
You participate in any web based forums?
actually i was using G92 updates for my d-subs. does it fix something important there?
some bug refering to units
i'm putting 2 dsubs on one panel, so i was using the offset to position each one
ChrisSmol: only g92.1/g92.3
i'll do the update when i get a chance
i still need to think about how to make some fixtures to hold these endplates i am machining
making a lot of the same part?
fun, that makes it worth coming up with a nice setup
here, let me find you a drawing or pic
yeah, i will probably do a hundred or so a year
cradek: What software do you use to create PCB and then output the G-code? I was just looking at your "PCB Manufacturing" web page. - thanks.
yay, production machines :D
i was buying end panels with the db-9 cutouts in them, but i get blanks with the enclosures anyway, so if i can make my own, i save money. or at least trade some time for money.
I'll check it out, thanks.
[19:33:06] <ChrisSmol> http://www.serpac.com/accessories-end-panels.html
PCB Manufacturing? what's the url for that, that's something i need to look into next, for making one off protos
should be easy to mill a pocket in Al that matches the panel
then it would take very little clamping
i need some way to hold down the part so it doesn't lift up i think?
[19:35:10] <alex_joni> http://timeguy.com/cradek/cnc/pcb
* ChrisSmol bookmark's timeguy.com
ChrisSmol: that's cradek's site btw
yeah, i couldn't remember the url from the other night when i asked ;-)
Anyone one of you have experience with sherline machines?
myp: a bit
I mean there are some who do :)
cradek: on the A axis driver board were the mounting holes done with a drill that size or with the end mill and a helical cut?
jepler: the helical cut, I think
so what s/w do you use to convert a gerber to g-code?
I use eagle user language script to output gcode directly
the eagle script is here: http://unpy.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/eagle/ulp/
(you need gcode.ulp, drill.cfg and singlesided.gpar)
jepler: although if those are #4 standard size, I do have those drills, so they may have been drilled
i need to see if orcad (v7) will do that
i'll guess probably not
the good thing about eagle is that it runs on linux
Would you recommend them for CNC usage?
myp: to do what with?
myp: they are very small machines - cnc or not, they're only for making small things
I don't have much space anyhow, student looking to get into machining.
any suggestions for places to get small blocks of Al fairly cheaply? i looked at mcmaster carr... ouch.
ChrisSmol: a local scrap yard, last I paid was $1/lb
i have a harbor freight micro mill, very small :-)
ok, thanks, i'll check the phone book.
So small would do.
myp: I think it's a great machine for making small parts.
[19:42:42] <jmkasunich> http://www.metalexpress.net/cgi-bin/index.pl?mod=core&ac=acHome&sid=d6b0289550d79ba7681b90de2487b694
they're usually cheaper than mcmaster, and they'll cut the piece you want, not force you to buy 6 feet
heh, that highlighted for me
more expensive than scrap of course, but but you can pick out exactlly what you want
ChrisSmol: any machine shop may have a bucket of cutoffs you could dig in...
i could probably use plastic also? of course i haven't priced delrin recently...
pity, when i worked out of the house afew years ago, we were right next to a metal shop.
what it comes down to is the value you place on having "a piece of metal" vs. "the piece I need"
oh for your fixture? sure, or nylon
will you use oil to cut it, or dry?
ChrisSmol: how big is the piece you are fixturing?
just use a 2x4 then :-)
a few different sizes, all small stuff
ballpark (IOW, how big a piece of 1/2" or 3/8" plate will you need for the fixture
one piece is 1 x 2.5 inch, another is about 2.75 by 1.3. both around 0.1 thick
6" x 4" x 1/2" 6061 alum plate, 1.18 lbs, $20.63
cradek: For PCB milling, what Eagle output device do you select to obtain G-code output?
this is from metalexpress? still looking at their site. cable modem is down and dialup is sloow.
EldonB46: that's where the scripts on the web page jepler pasted come in
you could make a fixture to hold both those parts in a 4" square
4 x 4 x 3/8 is $16.92
half inch isn't much more I bet
Sorry, I missed that, I'll go back and look.
(seems for the small parts the price doesn't match up with the weight, because of cutting expense)
also, I've found that _usually_ when you call their actual address you get prices that are a little better than the website prices
where are you?
ok, looking now. any ideas for a clamp for holding down the pieces? i was thinking maybe something that screwed down over them, with an opening large enough for the cutouts i was going to make. but maybe i am making it too complicated.
near baltimore? they have a warehouse there
yes, an hour from baltimore
if its like the cleveland one, you can call in and then pick it up to save shipping
not worth an hours drive tho
not worth it at all
(unless, like I did once, you are ordering about 100 lbs)
its about 25 mins for me
in any case, if you decide to buy from them, price it on the web, then call the baltimore office and see what they quote you
might be more, might be less
they're quoting two 4x4" 1/2 thick pieces at $11.75 each
I suggest you figure out clamping before you order - maybe you want two thinner pieces instead
definately. just getting some budgetary info for now
i'd like to be able to several pieces at a time, stacked on top of each other
aha, golden ring, they're way on the other side of the city
can you plunge that deep?
you might want to plunge in the center, then move out to the edge of the cutout OR not plunge at all (feed in at an angle)
i've done three so far just holding them in a clamp (agreed, not the best way, it was more for a test)
your fixture could hold several stacks too - depends how complex you want to get
yes. i'd like to reduce setup time on each piece.
i don't want to spend more money (time) making them than i can buy them for
it's fun to make them now, the fun will eventually wear off
but 6-10? stacks of 3? 5? you won't have to spend much time on them.
cradek: im all set now, I just need to mount the plc :)
anonimasu: serial stuff working?
anonimasu: what exacty did you acomplish?
sure, if i can do a few stacks of a few in each stack, my setup time for each piece becomes negligible.
I connected my plc with buttons and stuff over serial..
skunkworks: and I can send nml messages..
or well tell the pc to..
or use hal :)
skunkworks: yeah, it's really neat
im just trying to find out how to make globals in python for the feedhold..
ChrisSmol: vaccum table with a sacraficial top
my biggest concern will be making the fixture - and not making a mistake. i will probably do what i did with the d-sub stuff, i put a magic marker in the spindle, and drew out my cuts with the depth set so it just touched the surface.
ChrisSmol: are you using AXIS? it's easy to see if the program is right.
I got a cycle start button but I need some more logic for it I stole the bare minimum from axis..
i actually thought briefly about some sort of vacuum table
no, i need to look into it.
i was fun to watch the drawing. again, the fun will eventually wear off.
axis is the only way to go. imho :)
I usually dont dry run in the air before I machine I just look at the axis plot :)
ChrisSmol: there's a raw materials section on eBay
got a url for axis handy?
ok, thanks, i will check ebay out. i've bought my end mills from ebay already, got some nice assortments pretty cheap.
ChrisSmol: you already have it. In your ini, change to DISPLAY=axis
ChrisSmol: you have it already. Just need to edit the ini file to use the axis gui instead of tkemc (or what ever your running)
what chris said ;)
[20:09:09] <eholmgren> http://business.listings.ebay.com/Manufacturing-Metalworking_Metals-Alloys_W0QQfclZ3QQfromZR11QQsacatZ31488QQsocmdZListingItemList
ChrisSmol: you will hate tkemc after running axis :)
cradek: good job!
jepler: and good job too! :)
yes, i am using tkemc now
it made the whole emc experience 100% nicer
i like the nixie clocks
cradek: , I want a db25 punch... :)
this is the kind of thing you see when you load the gcode file -- you can rotate/zoom the display to see the depths etc.
the one with the screw holes too though.
[20:13:02] <anonimasu> http://www.almaskin.se/Screenshot-1.png
ok, i will certainly give axis a try
also you can click a line in the preview and see the corresponding gcode line highlight
and also the other way around
so a wrong line in the program is very easy to find
Would anyone recommend good literature on the subject of machining, shop measuring etc?
[20:14:05] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/axisubuntu.png
skunkworks: we still haven't seen that cube with all six sides done!
yah yah yah ;)
want atleast 4 axis before I do that ;)
skunkworks: how are you going to clamp it
probably machine all but 2 sides then create some vice jaws that clamp the ball and cage at the same time to finish it
talking about this http://www.electronicsam.com/images/woodcube.jpg
I want to see it without the frame..
all in good time - all in good time ;)
skunkworks: it'll probably happen at the same time I make a impeller
Too many projects :)
I'll be back in a bit.. going to the kiosk and try plc stuff once more :)
see if I got the feedhold to work properly
err if I managed to set a global with the previous feedrate.
is that your stealth?
one of my many hobbies ;)
I need to get a wideband and better fuel controller for it. (next on the list)
what are software you using on the palm?
* eholmgren is dyslexic today
mmcd - it started for the dsm (laser/eclipse) and someone made it work for the stealth/3000gt.
ah, had a friend with an eclipse that might have been using that
[20:23:51] <skunkworks> http://mmcdlogger.sourceforge.net/
you can tune the fuel curves etc with it?
no - stricly a logger
I have a simple 3 knob fuel controller right now. but would like to get something better - looking a a maft-pro fuel controller.
going to be a 1000 dollars worth of stuff.. Just can't bring my self to dish it out yet.
I have a stock 96 mustang gt right now
with a set of the '00+ heads/cams sitting in my basement
too lazy atm to install them
skunkworks: motec's good stuff *Grin*
This is a twin turbo. I have upgraded the turbos to 15g class. (wrx 13t) and have 550cc injectors (stock is 360cc)
skunkworks: just kidding, they are damn expensive :)
isn't motec the same as greddy - just repackaged?
motec's really high end fuel injections..
the m800 is at 7000eur with options..
i have heard of it.
though there's no limits..
they have smaller versions that's almost getting affordable :)
the popular fuel controller for this car is e-manage
hm, though that's a piggyback
aem - ems is our stand alone
if I were to buy anything I'd got for autronic..
it can do almost as much as the high end motec's.. at a much better price..
hm, emanage is cheap..
yah - still about a grand with everything I would need
with another 700$ you would have a standalone ecu
* anonimasu had a piggyback in the old car it was cumbersome as you had no clue where the stock ignition maps where :)/fuel maps
yes. we have figured out we can put the ecu into the static fuel map if we unplug the o2 sensors. then from there the tuning is static also
yeah that would work :)
but then I would need a wide band
which I need anyways
I wish the controllers werent that damn expensive
I agree ;)
the sensors are 140$
and the controller 540$
like on the motec fuel injection you calibrate the sensors with the number on them..
na - $200 that will interface into the fuel controller I want (maft-pro)
there's a megasquirt kind kit..
I don't want to work that hard ;)
though thoose seems to be a pain
I'd rather pay 500$ more then having to calibrate the sensor myself..
with gas mixtures
that'd be such a pain :D
the maft-pro would allow me to run speed density. (no maf)
which I would like
running 17psi - these turbos should max out at 25psi or so
but that would requier high octane or water/meth injection
ChrisSm is now known as ChrisSmol
I have nfc what you were talking about :)
not a car guy? :)
my cycle start/stop works
and my feedhold
skunkworks: bicycle :D
That would be better. (fat ugly americans)
I'm still fat :D
but I like the bicycle :)
don't ride it a lot :P
increase/decrease feed override buttons are alive..
though I need a knob.
now I need the home buton working..
now your just showing off ;)
lol im happy Â^_^
yeah, he is (showing off) :P
anonimasu: we need pictures :D
alex_joni: lol, it's on the desk.. besides the mill
I can get you a pic :)
anonimasu: weeeell, usually people show off when they have something nice :D
like properly mounted and installed
and CE approved *rimshot*
alex_joni: all I need to do is make a wiring diagram and write a letter of conformity..
it's pretty easy as there's just one machine like mine
bah. CE Mark.
alex_joni: and have a real external estop that kills everythin in a orderly fashioin :)
alex_joni: ofcourse all this implies that I've sold my soul to the eurpean parlament..
ChrisSmol: china export
and write the conformity letter in blood :D
dont make it sad
take the sad songs and make them betterrrrr
or something like that
that has it
I dont suppose they had appended to the lyrics to that song, the binary files I need to load into my robot did they?
[21:17:11] <skunkworks> http://www.brave.com/bo/lyrics/heyjude.htm
don't know ;)
robin_sz: only source files
woo hoo! I'm rich!
I got $10.50 for my scrap :-/
copper is up ;)
let me know how that feels
scrap metal dealer
is that including the compile farm or not?
poor cf :(
I bet that was $5 right there
* alex_joni sighs
if you figure the time I spend tearing stuff apart and sorting, I might have made (if lucky) $1/hr
but at least I know the stuff isn't going to a landfill
yeah that's the best you can do.
cradek: actually, the cf was probably only a dollar or two
I had probably 10-15 lbs of aluminum chips, a couple pounds of bronze chips, and 50 or more lbs of steel
the cf contributed maybe 20 lbs of the steel, and a little aluminum in the form of hard disk cases and platters
chamfered the edges, and now the ring is comfy. :)
saved the maganets?
I have bunches of HD magnets already
we get around £80/tonne for scrap steel at the moment
I imagine Cu, Al, and brass are quite a bit more
whats that, about 50c a pound?
kinda neat... as I did a quick, rough pass on the outter surface, so now it looks neat... as it reflects light in bands.
yeah, copper is high right now
copper had been anywheres between 2 and 3 dollars a pound here.
about £2 kilo
melt those pennies
pennies aren't copper
they are in the UK
old ones are
robin_sz, that's umm. 80# / metric ton?
pre 1982 or so? i forget when we changed to zinc
# <-- called a pound sign in North America.
I can't type the british pound symbol.
no its not, and we did that discussion before already :)
I wasn't here.
anyways. it's be 8pence = Kg.
not 2 pounds.
its 13p if we drive it to the dealer ouselves, but the local agent takes a cut if we have him pick it up
and you are talking large quantities, right?
about 2 tonnes a week
I went to the kind of scrap dealer that is frequented by winos who collect empty cans to pay for their next bottle
I like how Iran will now be selling oil in and not $. :)
<-- not a euro sign?
not here it isn't
oh ohwell. I give up.
not on my machine .. it comes at as some UTF-8 symbol
shows up here - must not transmit
I see a euro sign
must be your font.
I didn't see it from alpha
I see a reverse @ from A-L-P-H-A
robin's displays right
that was euro and degree.
I see both of those
I just changed some stuff... so maybe that's why
X users: xmodmap -e 'keycode 78=Multi_key'
I should be coding right now.
then scroll lock is your compose key
I'm in windows again, as I don't have sound in ubuntu.
it's pissing me off a lot.
compose L - gives a pound sign
A LOT A LOT.
A-L-P-H-A, on a UK keyboard configured to US layout, typing the "£" pound symbol will incorrectly type a "#" ... due to this, americans somehow got the idea that we used # for "pound sterling" ... we dont. never have, never will. somehow, "pound" money then got mixed up with "pound" weight, and .. well, # became "pound" ...
compose ^ o gives degree symbol, etc etc.
€ comes out as euro for me
somehow I get E U R (three capital letters) for that
µ < mu for micron?
jmkasunich: not copper. platinum.
he's selling the empty shells
oh .. empty??
for an outrageous price
actually I think I see the scam
the ebay ad is just a way to find folks who will sell _him_ their full converters, so he can recycle the cores
oh, I see it now
robin_sz: heh £ is pound :D
shipping cost: FREE
wonder how much Pt is in them
I mean originally
but that guy does indeed by them - he paid $99 for a used one for a jetta
I was told you can get 60 dollars any day of the week for your old catalytic convertsr
huh, must be a significant amount then
my mustang had four of the things, and I don't think that's uncommon anymore
my car had 3 - 3 pre-cats and 1 main cat
yep two on each side
my diesel had a cat
the front ones are small
I mean - 3 - 2 pre-cats and 1 main
until it fell off
actually .. its still off
along with a big section of the exhuast
being turbo'd ... it doesnt actually make any more noise
cradek: you don't seem like a mustang person.. Whats the story?
yeah, but they make more emissions
early midlife crisis?
skunkworks: I had it a year and got rid of it. it was a crappy car.
people that usually drive mustangs have the tendency to wrap them around poles.
thought I would like it, but I never did
A-L-P-H-A: only dumbasses
stupid people, with small a penis, or penis envy.
robin_sz, hydro/telegraph poles.
I don't know how they could - most of them are so under-powered ;)
A-L-P-H-A, ahh, not people from poland then?
A-L-P-H-A: I normally drive around obstacles :-)
robin_sz, I call those polocks.
any vertical, non-yeilding piece of wood will do
trees are nice for that
I'm often amazed by the damage a tree can do to a car - and usually the tree looks just fine thank you
okay... now I know Titanium rings aren't hard to machine... at least the turning part... not sure about the milling part.
trees are very effective at stopping cars ... well anchored, hard snap
robin_sz, any tree with a good diameter trunk that is.
you have a chance of busting a pole, but a live tree the same size, forget it
a 3" dia, will hurt the car, but probably kill the tree.
400mm is pretty much indestructable
A-L-P-H-A: do you have an A axis?
that's like 13-15"... yeah.
400mm - cute. 15.7 inches
cradek, yes. yes I do.
just not highspeed spindle.
A-L-P-H-A: doesn't matter - take your time :-)
Ti is easy to CNC machine ... PITA to hand machine
robin_sz, I hand machined this ring, on the first try
no blueing, nothing.
nice sharp tooling is the key
robin_sz, yeah. that's what I used, sharp tools...
and avoid thin cuts
though, I probalby hardened the piece while boring, but just cut through it anwyays.
robin_sz, what's thin to you?
I was probably doing .25mm DOC.
maybe a little more...
if you dont take enough of a "bite" and the tool is a bit blunt, it skids on the surfcae ... then your problems begin
yeah, I didn't dwell anywhere, except for when I was boring out hte ID... but that was in the back... it didn't cause too much problems, my tooling was sharp.
we picked up some really REALLY nice Ti tube this week
25od, .5 wall, grade 5
cradek: what year was your mustang?
I love how madison ave thinks titanium is some hard metal.
for the great tubular linear motor project :)
hm, induction hardening ti ;)
no it was the V6
crappy enough mileage as it was
my brother had an '00 v6
loud and slow
I had a 01 Grand Am GT.
it was fast enough for me, but my volkswagen is (much) faster
cradek: what kind of volkswagan?
skunkworks: GTI (two door Golf) VR6
it's a great car
30mpg highway but very fast.
we had a jetta tdi (diesle)
it's a chick's sports car.
I would have bought a TDI had they had one used
Corrado... slow sports car.
Sabaru, WRX. :)
Suzuki GSXR ;)
unfortunately they stopped making the GTI / TDI
I'd get one, if it were not for the fact that someone I don't like has one.
robin_sz, not available in Canuckia.
A-L-P-H-A: sounds like you worry too much about other people.
Infinity G35... just a beautiful car.
I always preferred bikes
cradek. no... it'd remind me every time I drove it, my exGF drives one exactly like it.
I have 2 of the wrx turbos in my car ;)
robin_sz: bikes work well for about 1/12 of the months around here
cradek, I knew a guy that road his bike all year around, in Toronto of all places.
I have a bike (cruiser style) but the car is probably faster :-)
A-L-P-H-A: in my younger days I rode to college whenever there wasn't snow
cradek, suits me ... I have random old diesel for transport, bike for fun ... its nice to take a off-raod bike out in the snow too :)
cradek: OK, I have the; drill.cfg gcode.ulp singlesided.gpar files and after doing a lot of reading, I still do not know where to put them (maybe gcode.ulp into /usr/local/eagle/ulp), but no clue where the others go. Also, after install how is the G-code output invoked? Sorry all, for off topic, but this will be used to generate G-code for EMC2 - thanks for helping this newbe!
EldonB46: you invoke the ulp by pushing the ULP icon thingy
EldonB46: then you get a dialog, and you tell it where the parameter file is
you'll want to customize drill.cfg and singlesided.gpar for your machine
yes and for your PCB stock
the first line of drill.cfg gives the diameter of the end-mill used to cut out large holes. The rest of the lines give nominal size;smallest hole size;largest hole size of the available drills
hey I should write down how that works...
I've puzzled at that (and looked at the source) a few times
so the example drill.cfg uses 5 different drill sizes plus a 1/16" end-mill for larger holes
those drills are crazy american numbered drill bits
If you wish to cut a concave surface into the end of a cylinder, I have seen special radius cutting attachments for lathes, can this operation be done on a CNC machine without special tools?
if you're buying drills, I suggest getting at least those - they will do for most things
myp: sure, on a cnc lathe you would just program an arc
Things look so easy (while standing on the shoulders of experts) - thanks guys!!
myp: well several of them probably
it's a little hard to cut in the center of the stock, since it's not really moving
but that's not a cnc problem
if you'd drill out the center first it would work better
gotta run, goodnight all
Night, thanks for info.
* alex_joni runs too
jepler: did you see yesterday - I got the cd from futurtec?
skunkworks: yes you told me
So what kind of crowd are you?
Professionals or hobby machinists?
Or a mix?
hobby machinist for professional work ;-)
Is emc beeing used in production anywhere?
i'm using it to make the endplates for my radiation detectors, if that counts
how many is that?
[22:22:37] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Case_Studies
I have stuff that'll sell that im going to make 10 out of..
Micro factories eh?
i sell a few hundred a year
tho i just started using emc the other day
What type of detectors are they?
geiger tube based
Is it your living?
(or how you make it)
part of my living
that and software
so ... video sharing websites ... WTF do people post videos of the output of them playing a videa game? I mean. htey are pretty boring to do.. WTF would anyone want to watch a video of what happened when someone else played it huh?
* robin_sz is baffled
The youth of today eh? ;)
myp, at least some of us as professional CNC users who like to play with CNC stuff for a hobby too, because we just dont get enough fun at work :)
myp, about 40% of the chat on here is directly related to emc, 40% to CNC/machiing in general and 20% just general friendly stuff ... somethin like that anyway
Ok, seems like an interesting community, I very much like the idea of open source linux CNC.
I just happen to be entirely unskilled in it at the moment.
I think we'll see more and more small scaled computerized manufacturing in the future, but I guess you hold that to be obvious.
I'll be going as well, nice seeing you.
see you myp
it will be interesting to see what the future holds for manufacturing. the small, specialist stuff will still be around. large scale stuff? well we'll see what happens, once its automated and you have people out of the loop, its as cheap here as it is in china
I suspect that as china catches up, cost wise, the exodus of manufacturing to china will slow. and china prices are starting to rise already
china is already outsourcing to vietnam, etc
ChanServ. Vietnam has some hot girls... I know, cause my friend's wife is hitting on me. :(
a big machined piece cant be automated so the old machinist will always survive
and a skillful machinist is made with +10 years on the shop, thats the reason chzek machines continue to be expensive and sold as always
dang - auto parts stores aren't set up for "I want to see all your timing belt pulleys"
its always "what make and model and year" first
hm -- maybe I can't use the CLK as a general purpose input pin
that's too bad
or maybe I still haven't figured out what is going on
* jepler scratches his head
Take a look as sdp-si.com John...excellent site...
Tarzan...I think the old machinist will always survive, but not because big pieces can t be automated...Its a matter
of how many they want to make....
If its allot, then it pays for it to be figured out for CNC production....
jmkasunich: the 16 yo behind the counter at autozone was probbly afraid of you
one of the employees at the az near me is schizophrenic
shopping there is "interesting" to say the least
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/ (pluto_servo.comp pluto_servo_rbf.h): make pluto_servo pinout match the documentation. remove debugging stuff.
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_servo_firmware/ (5 files): make pluto_servo pinout match the documentation. remove debugging stuff.