cradek: jepler: how did it go last night - saw that you got it comunicating - but an issue with the encoder count?
yeah something is strange with the spindle encoder - it just doesn't seem to cooperate
it seems like some filtering will probably fix it
* alex_joni got his new system
core 2 duo 6600
2GB DDR800 ram
how do you like it? more importantly - how does it run emc2 :)
skunkworks: not at all yet
and it probably won't get an RT kernel :)
cradek: what was the comunication problem?
my father just picked up a toshiba portable that is a core 2 duo. don't know which model.
skunkworks: as far as we can tell, for a while aliens were replacing the firmware, and maybe the hal driver, with a buggy one while we weren't looking, but they finally stopped
thats scary ;)
but seriously, we must have been really confused about what versions were working, or something
for a while we were overwriting files with different versions and not keeping careful track
so when this one worked I checked it into cvs (before jepler was ready, unfortunately)
:) nail it down
did you hook the spindle encoders into both counters? like jmk mentioned?
no I never did that
we got distracted with other stuff (homing)
so did the 'blown' pluto still work?
did fix one emc bug last night though, which is nice
yes, there's nothing wrong with it
so now we have three of the things, and we need about one
bet you can find other uses for it
does jeff still plan to go for the m5i20 ?
alex_joni: X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by outpost.timeguy.com id kBFDWYeA049793
alex_joni: I think you're sending quoted-printable even when your message is all ascii
(I'm surprised mailman doesn't fix it, but it doesn't seem to)
that's on my outgoing mail
strange, maybe mailman converts it TO quoted-printable?
mine is surely text
ok sorry for accusing you :-)
actually I bet it's because of his polish signature
I didn't look down at the quoted text
cradek: all those messages displayed just fine for me in mutt
yeah, they display fine for me too
or is that not the problem?
but you know, be tolerant of what you receive and strict what you send
have you made your digikey/mouser order yet? if not, maybe you should pick up some of those differential receivers jmk mentioned the first time we had trouble with the spindle
I think they were inexpensive
no I haven't
I was thinking rc + schmitt trigger for everything
heck just rc would probably be enough
so "reset" is a solved problem on your machine now?
yes it works every time
without a jumper?
without hardware modification
however I'm a little bothered that the pwm outputs come on when I exit emc
if I set max pwm to not quite 100%, I wonder if a simple cap coupling would give me a charge pump equivalent
it could use a time constant of several/many pwm cycles
what about 0% duty cycle?
that one would work because the rc would pull it to ground
or you could add a not-so-weak pulldown on those lines
the pull-up is about 50kohm or something
oh do they get tri-stated when it's in reset?
yes, I believe that in reset it's a tri-state with weak pull-up
let me see if I can find it in the datasheet
the pull-up is min 20 kOhm, max 50 kOhm, it is present on all user pins while the device is not configured and running
page 47, "rconf" (bottom of page) http://www.altera.com/literature/ds/acex.pdf
so 1-3k to ground would do
quad differential receiver: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/am26c32.pdf
$1.35 qty 1, SOIC-16 pkg http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=AM26C32ID
$.88 qty 1, DIP-16 pkg http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=SN75ALS193N
$0.22 a channel, hard to beat that
jmkasunich: thanks for adding me to the list
whoah, it's jmkasunich at 9am
scary ain't it
he probably gets a few weeks off at christmas ;)
skunkworks: you're welcome, sorry it took so long
cradek: it's 5pm ;)
we've really got quite a few boards going now
but still.. a new thing to see jmk around .. hi
10x 5i20s, 5x 7i31, 7x 7i33, and 9x 7i37
what was the final word from mesa on the qty pricing?
the 25 price for emc developers
I changed the page to reflect that price
ah -- it still says "5+ price" at the left
yeah, but the numbers are the actual price we'll be getting
I _think_ swpadnos said that they'd even give us the discount price on breakouts that we are getting less than 10 of
jepler: are you still getting something?
he's down for a 5i20 and 7i37
is 7i37 the 4 h bridges?
no its the 16 in 8 out isolated
their part numbers are not so good
I'm getting an H bridge board, just for grins
7i30 is the 4 h bridges
isn't 3A 36V kinda small?
for my main machine, yes
yes, but plenty for a tabletop machine
so what are you gonna drive with it
I'm getting it just to play with
I have some little servomotors, etc
cradek: your lathe is what -- 2A 24V?
main machine is NEMA34 steppers with geckos
ooh look at the 'sploded capacitor
I've had those pics for several years, been itching to post them somewhere
I might have power mosfets looking like that somewhere around :)
I've got a pic of a 450A 1200V IGBT module thats missing its smoke, gonna post that one of these weeks
s/missing its smoke/wearing its smoke on the outside/
I took the smoke out of a PIC once ;)
I seriously underclocked it (to 50Hz) .. but it somehow didn't like the 220VAC
thats why we only use 120V over here
and 60Hz - so things work faster
I think 220V at 50Hz might still be faster than 110V and 60Hz
faster at letting the smoke out :)
and it's 230V these days
have't let the smoke out of my h-bridge yet. those ir2111 are great ;)
* alex_joni mumbles something
shh, don't tempt the smoke gods
something about ir2111s?
hmm... shot some pictures in sweden this week.. wonder if they are worth putting online
where they all snow and cold? ;)
* skunkworks looks around for lh
actually it was warmer than here
+5C vs. -2C here
holiday party here at work. Would be a good time to play with the pluto ;)
alex_joni: very pretty
I'm running a countouring program at 360 ipm (60k pps) right now.
117745 lines of gcode.
display is a bit slow when I try to do things like count the lines in the program.
But for the most part it looks quite acceptable.
what base period are you at?
rayh: what kind of display?
8000 base period
mini is the display
skunkworks: you need more transistors, like this guy used: http://www.mcmanis.com/chuck/robotics/projects/esc2/speed2.html
I don't see what chip he's using as a driver, and I assume it's no 100V+ drive voltage either
I'm logging. I don't understand '!bookmark', Bo^Dick. Try /msg logger_emc help
yee ha. I suppose I could parrallel some of my 44a ones. :)
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-12-15.txt
Lead screw whipping so I disconnected it for test speeds above 360 ipm.
at 420 ipm the motor is turning 2133 and has almost no torque.
This parport is putting out 71120 pps.
that is a lot of pulses
way above practical
for this setup.
rayh: after the program is done, does the motor stop in the right place?
The last test I ran for lost steps was at 180ipm and it was good.
At these higher speeds I can stall the motor with accel.
rayh: quite a bit of pulses :)
I hope I can top that though ..
got a new machine with a pci parport
let the race begin.
[16:59:17] <jepler> http://www.mcmanis.com/chuck/robotics/projects/eelb.html
not that I ever run an easter-egg hunt mind you
I'm just a bit confused by g61 and path control.
Is there a doc that describes default behavior?
Am I correct to assume that g64 is default now?
(if that page doesn't state that, it probably should)
there's a desc in the reference too :)
the rs274ngc docs :)
Okay. I've got the idea now.
cradek: the PDF documentation still lists G61.1. Should I remove mention of it?
jepler: I don't know/remember what it does now
if it's "exact path" you can get about the same behavior with G64 P[tiny]
Program G61 to put the machining center into exact path mode, G61.1 for exact stop mode, or G64 P- for continuous mode with optional tolerance. It is OK to program for the mode that is already active. See Section [*] for a discussion of these modes.
Path Control Mode
The machining center may be put into any one of three path control modes: (1) exact stop mode, (2) exact path mode, or (3) continuous mode with optional tolerance. In exact stop mode, the machine stops briefly at the end of each programmed move. In exact path mode, the machine follows the programmed path as exactly as possible, slowing or stopping if necessary at sharp corners of the path. In continuous mode, sharp corners of the path may be rounded slig
The reason behind the traj question is that I've got a whole bunch of 0.0002 sized moves in this program.
rayh: you really want to use G64 Pxxx then
rayh: hm, g61.3 0.0002
I read "(G64) the planner will maintain the programmed feed rate as closely as possible, blending corners where necessary, but with the new requirement that at least some part of each programmed segment be followed (the old trajectory planner would often "blend away" entire program segments.)"
rayh: actually there's a feature that's newer than that page
now G64 Pxxx will throw out points that don't cause a divergence from the path greater than the tolerance
ett it's g61.1
rayh: sorry about that :)
* rayh bangs his head on the wall a couple times.
cradek: on a sidenote.. it's called a zero-zone on ABB robots
you want that if your gcode has a crazy number of unimportant points, which it sounds like yours does
continous path mode
No the small moves define letters engraved in the surface.
I'm not explaining it right
rayh: you can specify G64 P0.001 or whatever tolerance you need
whatever is inside that tolerance can be discarded / blended
So if g64 required that some of the path be maintained I should still get a pretty good representation of the lettering.
at no single moment you will be more than 0.001 away from the ideal/exact path
if you have a bunch of points in a straight line (or straight enough within your tolerance) you can ignore everything but the endpoints and zip right through the rest. that's what it does now
I can see the g64 p command pretty clearly.
is g63 on by default?
or anything like it?
I don't see g63 in our g-code reference
Most of these 0.0002 moves are reversals.
[17:19:15] <anonimasu> http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/personnel/kramer/pubs/RS274NGC_3.pdf
but you should never assume something is on "by default", because some things stay from the previous program (if any)
default is G64 P0 (that means no limit, but at least at one point every line needs to be touched)
you should always put the things that matter in your g-code at the very top
I should have my cam program spit out a closer one..
anonimasu: is g63 in that pdf? What page#?
Thanks alex_joni that statement makes the behavior clear.
I hope so.. I still have trouble reading what I wrote :P
say you have a tiny .0002 tall triangle wave along the X axis for an inch. if you program G64 P.001 it will make one fast straight line along X
I mean I'm not convinced it's clear enough :D
because the triangle wave is within the tolerance, it doesn't matter so it's discarded to allow you to machine much faster
IMO we will have to visit and perhaps edit this traj planning in our documents.
yes the documentation is pretty far behind now
(that wiki page is the closest we have)
Certainly g64 P0.001 would speed up this program.
I'm going to try the triangle wave test
and the machine would probably not dance between it's four legs.
that sounds like a nice benefit
can be scary with a 1600 oz in motor and accel of 20
emcinfo.pl?TrajectoryControl is a very nice page.
Looks to me like a couple of small additions using the info above should make it up-to-date.
anonimasu: I still don't see g63.
I'm a bit conflicted by where in the user manual this information mgiht/should be included.
MrAsshole is now known as Jymmmm
jepler: it probably was G64
and the G63 was a typo ?
oh, meant g64 :)a
Certainly an expansion in the chap 13 is in order.
My wondering is where we might include examples of many of these codes.
rayh: maybe a new section?
* Jymmmm puts on sarcasim hat.... The Wiki!!!!
The move toward Tom's original style of command reference is excellent. Much better than the original user manual.
touche /me is a sarcasim master.
that worked well.
As we move into the world of machines purchased by customers, IMO we must supply more than a link to a wiki that can change at the whim of the reader.
alex_joni: are you thinking of a chaper titled something like "programming examples?"
rayh: something like that
I think that's good because many times an example mixes several different codes.
Things like looping around canned cycles with tool offsets.
ARe you talking about machien specific configs? (I forget the real of those)
Jymmmm: We would want to keep the examples well within the abilities of a "common" configuration.
ok, so generic then?
when emc was on kde i used kate ( editor ), i installed it onto ubuntu dapper but the terminal is gone
there's a tab for it, but it opens an uneditable area ( cant get cursor into it )
Motor danced around a bit under the electrical tape but the reflection on the wall shows no significant step loss after 1 hour of contour running.
tomp: KDE's terminal is a different program from the one used by gnome.
ok, many windows now :(
oh, u mean kate tries to open kterm... ok
I did like that kde feature and a couple others in the file browser.
yeh. so kububtu/emc been done?
tomp: emc works on kubuntu too
just need to install kubuntu, then the emc2 packages
tomp looks for hd space..
Seems like SWP was working with kubuntu but I don't remember what he was doing.
ooh now it sounds like soemthing i would get lost in... back to many windows, & keep ubu ,thanks
Thanks for the help with the tp stuff guys, gotta run.
gnome terminal has tabs too ( many terms ) so i only need 2 windows ( editor & gterm ) (doh!)
Does the latest release of emc have pwmgen in it?
cradek: what rc are you using for your spindle?
* anonimasu cant type today
I wonder when dmess were around last time..
i added analog input widget vscale to vcp_widgets, it 'realizes', but didnt really instance
i get error "(halvcp:10094): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_signal_connect_closure_by_id: assertion `signal_id > 0' failed"
the widget appears and the signals are in halmeter
just not really connected
what does (halvcp:10094) mean?
it >does< instance, the problem is the signals dont connect to the halpins
Nice having a newer phone, but apain in the butt getting it setup and all the addrbook switched over.
LawrenceG:how long where you without power?
well, Monday pm to Wed pm, then on yesterday and off again about 1/2 of last night (is 10:42am here)
LawrenceG: Got Generator?
lots of fun... yup... enough for fridge and freezer.. a wood stove keeps the chill off
how many watts?
They keep threatening to ban wood stoves here, but until the powers that be can keep the power on, it stays! 1800watt Honda contruction model
1800 ?! Wow, I didn't think that would be big enough.
it will run anything you can plug into 1 outlet... I sized it for the skill saw when I was building... I wanted it as light as possible
Jymmmm: I just picked up a new HF radio from an estate.... an Icom IC-736 base station type (110vac only)
$500.... prearranged before the guys passing.... It seems like a nice radio but it needs a tuneup.... its about 150hz off frequency
with it being HF you can use WWV for reference I'd suspect
I have some good test gear here to put it where it should be.... I was hoping the power would stay on last night... I wanted it to warm up for 24hrs before I started tweaking
Yeah, makes sense. Well you have power now (hopefully)
It doesnt look like any repairs are needed... sensitvity and power output are better than specs. My first contact was on 6mters last night
ah, you already have a yagi setup?
the borq is in this call gtk_signal_connect(GTK_OBJECT(gwp), "changed", GTK_SIGNAL_FUNC(vscale_changed), wp);
It was open here with a lot of auroal flutter from coast to coast... no yagi.. was on 80mtr loop!
If it aint dipole, I dont' got it.
Jymmmm is now known as Red70sShow
Red70sShow is now known as Jymmmm
my uncle keeps telling me to get my ham licence
skunkworks US ?
k9vqr, kyvqz and k9yyk. uncle, grandfather, and father
skunkworks: You'll have your license in 7 days http://www.eham.net/exams/
pretty easy to get here in Canada as well.... it has been reduced to a multiple choice exam... easier than a driving test
Both me and my gf studied that for a week, took the test on Saturday and had our licenses by Tuesday (was a holiday weekend)
skunkworks: BTW... we both missed one question, exactly the SAME question which wasn't on those. So you should be able to get your pretty quickly.
Jymmmm: thanks for the link
skunkworks Just find a VTE in your area for next Saturday, and you'll be set!
!$8 - $15
LawrenceG: where in CA ?
* jmkasunich is back
* alex_joni is also back
jmkasunich: seems that guy on the user list is missing a scale
amoung other things. (inside voice - inside voice)
one of these days I need to finish http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Tuning_EMC2/HAL_PID_Loops
I was going to add my experiences when I have some.
jmkasunich: there's also a lyx chapter waiting :)
jmkasunich: I noticed there's nothing about pid tuning on that page.
like I said, I need to finish it
I like this page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/
yeah you really do ;)
* anonimasu is still unsure about how he's pid works :)
the problem is that I need to refresh my own memory, and I have no servo system here to play with
* skunkworks only has a vauge idea
skunkworks: I'm afraid that was me :)
jmkasunich: your getting the hardware now :) (mesa and stuff)
thats one reason I'm getting the H bridge board
I have motors with encoders here (little ones) that I can mess around with
eholmgren: sorry.. had to take the dog for a walk... west coast, Vancouver Island
I think there should be emc config races during the workshop. wouldn't that be fun?
did any one notice that the sliders on halscope don't work if the screen size is too small? gain and position. the slider 'knob' doesn't change size with window scale.
took me a bit to figure out why I couldn't change the scale or position of the trace.
gain I mean
at the windows smallest size the knob is the same size as the slider slot
then make it bigger ;-)
LawrenceG: I'm over in central Minnesota
and we haven't had snow yet
:) I figured you guys would say that. the thing is it defaults to the smallest size.
for me it did anyways
eholmgren: I thought you where in chicago
how much vaccum do you need to machine acetal?
with a vaccum table..
[19:39:18] <eholmgren> http://www.jeffdeboer.com/Galleries/CatsMice/tabid/63/Default.aspx
OT and kinda strange, ... some artist that makes "armor" suits for cats and mice
thoose things seem well made
can you slave steppers in emc?
ie, if I wanted to drive my X with two motors
eholmgren: yes and no
it's easy to drive them both
it's a pita to home them
cradek: if you use the proposed pluto "standard pinout" for your lathe, you have 3 available inputs on the 26-pin connector: 1 dedicated, plus the index inputs for two of the quadrature counters
if you're only using 2 PWM then you have 5 digital outputs available: 1 dedicated, plus the other two UP and DOWN outputs
let me know if adding the strong pull-down fixes the servo amp enable problem
I wonder if the L298 stops when both dirs are high -- it doesn't run away as-is, even though I think the outputs are high
I think that's a "braking" configuration -- both ends of the motor winding shorted to VCC
page 6 http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/1773.pdf
C=D is "fast motor stop"; Ven = L is "free-running motor stop"
you're getting Ven=C=D=H
it doesn't seem to brake... but it's good that it's an accepted input
[21:17:07] <jepler> http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/12/15/push-button-manor/
so is this what you guys do when you're s'posed to be working?
3pm on a friday??
hmm... what are the odds that I'm going to need a 100MHz differential scope probe and amplifier?
not extremely high
jmkasunich: but you never know :D
to ebay, or not to ebay, that is the question
this seems promising: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170057016801
mine is pretty much the exact same thing
almost never used
I have a manual and some accessories as well ;-)
it's in australia
I don't want to buy it
does that give you isolation? it might be really handy
25V common mode range, 250V with the x10 adapter
1mV/div to 200mV/div
oh you're debating whether to sell one
ah, no use to me then
10mV to 2V/div with the adapter
I frequently use both channels to get differential
like something with a bridge rectifier hooked to the AC
I'll make you _such_ a deal!
on a completely unrelated matter
oooooh! "automatic drapperies"
do I recall you looking for a P3 CPU so one of your boxes would have matched ones?
I have several sitting around collecting dust
free to good home
same for me, 667 and 833
600EB/256/133/1.65V S1 SL3NB
long since swapped out for 1Ghz
maybe I'll use it for the shoptask PC
woohoo! got analog range widgets for vcp_widgets, no errs "a tall"
i had callback with wrong message ( uft!)
I'll have to send it to someone who knows how to include it/test it...
right now a slider is varying the stg.0.dac_value and displaying the desired value
i know how i'd use it but some body may want a simple way to chg rpm or gain or...
are you gonna commit it to CVS?
i dunno how, thats what i meant to say
1) become a developer (if you aren't already)
2) send it to a developer
it's a single page of text to add to vcp_widgets.c anybody want it?
1 means sending a ssh key to cradek, then getting a developer checkout instead of an anon checkout, copying the modified files to the checkout, and committing it
2 means sending your modified vcpwidgets.c to a developer
I'll commit it for you if you want
thanks ( I dunno what a ssh key is so I'll send it to where i sent the mi520 order :-)
sounds secret... like shh!
the 5i20 order might be going to swp, or might be going to me, we don't know yet
and it won't happen until after 12/20
if you have something now, send it to jmkasunich at att dot net
tomp cleans code up ... removing profanity, retests
jmkasunich: thanks for the offer of processors, but I've tried several times to get two processors to work in max, and I've given up
(btw, I only have one, so it would only be even remotely interesting if it matched the one you already have)
there are sockets for power regulator? modules too that go with the processors, and I have a bunch of things that plug in, but most of them don't seem to work
(so I obviously don't know what I'm doing)
[22:03:01] <cradek> http://legendarycode.com/webpics/lasercutter.jpg
sorry, I think it's funny
is that from that fark page?
"take me to your leader"
are mouser and digi-key two of the main components suppliers in the US?
for small qty, yes (RS is new to US)
they are pretty new everywhere..
i used ;'em thru asia & oz
atleast in sweden..