03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/hal_ppmc.c: removed a parameter that was created but never used
hey, its been a million years since I used IRC. what's the command to see who is on the channel?
huh. my client doesnt do nuffni.
what IRC client are you using?
so I got an emc question....
well, this will probably depend on the version of xchat you have, which probably depends on the distro you have...
try its help
...I'm setting up my laser. its cutting, its great.
but my xchat has a little line in the bottom left that says "21 users"
when I click on that I get a list
oh. hey look at that.
jmkasunich: that'll do it.
okay. so when my laser is cutting...
....suppose I am cutting something that looks like a square wave.
if I have my feed at 10 inches per sec, it does okay.
er, per minute.
when I set it to 20 inches per minute, all the corners of the square wave become rounded.
starts to look like a sine.
if you want exact corners, use exact stop mode
with a fairly low accel
or tolerance mode if you don't want stops
ooh. exact stop mode is specified in the .ini file?
it's a gcode. I'm looking for the docs.
[01:35:19] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TrajectoryControl
but the acceleration I'd set in the .ini file.
G61, G61.1, G64
read that wiki page for a full understanding of the relevant issues
another answer might be that you have your accel set lower than necessary
G61 baby. look at them shape corners.
*ramps up the feedrate*
now's when you need a web cam :-)
any good sources for some cheap steppers, other than ebay? I'd like something with shafts at each end i think
wow F80, great cuts.
feed rates like that I can really save on the oxygen.
make sure your accel is as high as reasonable too, I bet you have it too low if you got a lot of rounding at F10
possibly. so is the max_velocity in the .ini file the same thing as feedrate?
and we do need video!
feed is per minute, velocities in the ini are per second
but cradek wasn't talking about velocity, he was talking about acceleration
true, that's why I kept saying acceleration :-)
yeah I got that. I was just wondering if setting the F80 didnt mean anything because it was limited by the .ini file.
F80 = 80 inches/min = 1.33 inches per second
yes it is limited, the ini should represent your machine's limits
so if the velocity limit in your ini file is more than 1.33, you will get F80 when you ask for it
well I must have fixed something because I got a following error :-)
if you're on a stepper machine, you need to increase the STEPGEN_MAXVEL and STEPGEN_MAXACCEL items too. If you're on a servo machine it means you're at your machine's limits.
* owhite has servos. 20,000 steps per inch resolution.
what kind of servo card are you using?
Pico systems Universal Stepper Controller.
I thought you said you had servos?
yep. that goes to gecko drivers.
confusing that way. :-)
yikes, double pids
is that good er bad?
*figures its bad*
man this thing is scampering along at quite a clip. cant believe its cutting metal.
the inflation will help you the most if you go last
* cradek shrugs
it's a long story
cradek is the master of not telling a story
I told the story to jmk - he can summarize if he wants
"the sound of a ninja falling in love in the forest of your heart is HIYAA!"
hmm, 125 oz-in steppers for $12 each. maybe just a little too low torque?
that is a little low unless your machine is very small
it's the micro mill.
i really want to hold out for a dual shaft, anyway.
ChrisSmol: I haven't used these steppers personally but maybe they're worth consideration: http://www.xylotex.com/StepperMotor.htm
yeah,i'd still like manual control i think. dunno, i don't even have the mill here yet ;-)
you want bipolar
they're more powerful
i could buy their drive board and be done with it
all real drivers run in bipolar mode
yeah, that's a reasonable approach for a small machine
maybe even what I'd do if I was starting over
there's the fun of building your own, which no doubt quickly loses the appeal once you get started
their driver pcb looks nice, 26 pin connector to directly go to a parallel port
talking about the xylotex 3 axis?
hear anything about it?
I have one of those
don't have their motors, just some ones I scrounged
seems to work ok
I use it for testing, I don't actually run a machine with it
by the way, emc2 includes a "xylotex" pinout in the sample configurations
it should match the pinout of those 3-axis modules
I put it there
and it does
well, i have some surplus electronics stuff i'm going to sell to a borker for $400, so that would pay for the 3 steppers and driver pcb.
what size machine are you going to run?
one of the guys that buys stuff for 3 cents on the dollar and sells it for 3 dollars on the dollar
the harbor freight micro mill
that should work pretty well I think - isn't it in the same size class as the sherline?
not sure, it is a pretty small machine, but i don't think i will be doing any major projects with it. if i can make proto PCBs and put openings and maybe recessed text in plastic electronic enclosures, i will be happy
ok, i'll bookmark the xylotex site, looks like good stuff
I made a video but it was 19meg.
Damn $16 for a gallon of denatured alcohol!
owhite: that's a great picture, thanks
thanks. it was a piece of scrap so it looks pretty scratchy. goof for a laugh.
er, gooD for a laugh.
thanks much for the .ini information people. g'night.
Hell #emc.... I like it!!!
is that edm?
on SS ?
man I want a laser sooooooooooooooooooooooooo bad
dunno, the guy who did it left
whee, I guess exact stop mode works
I'd be happy with 100W CO2
"You know you're a geek when... You have 4 computers all around you doing something, and none of them are a server"
owhite is using a 100W CO2 on SS - http://www.nilno.com/laser_intro/
pretty neat site, with some videos
Original price: $27,000.
peak @ 250W
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/vcp.lyx: a very very small start to vcp documentation
Jymmmmmm is now known as Jymmm
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/config/stepper.lyx: markup fixes. verbatim include standard_pinout.hal so that it stays up to date in future documentation versions
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/config/stepper.lyx: whoops, line break in wrong spot
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/config/stepper.lyx: fix include path for standard_pinout
03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/Master_HAL.lyx: added a couple paragraphs of text to the VCP docs, and added a small example with a screenshot
03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/ (tinyvcp.png vcp.lyx): added a couple paragraphs of text to the VCP docs, and added a small example with a screenshot
LawrenceG wazzzzzzzzup ?!
saw you are playing with openwrt
yeah, trying to =)
I picked up 5 netgear wgt634u boxes.... fun little computers
have you been playing with openwrt alot?
usb 2, 5 wired enet ports, mini pci wireless
the netgear box has a usb port?
not too much.... I have built the kamakazi build a 1/2 dozen versions and flashed a few of them
usb2... it was made for a hard drive as an ftp server
ah, how much?
cool way to have a network drive without leaving computers on
see ebay Item number: 260050963032
I paid $40Cdn including shipping each using a buy it now option
check the sellers other auctions... they have been selling these for a couple of months... the must have bought thousands of them
[06:04:05] <LawrenceG> http://members.shaw.ca/swstuff/wgt634u.html
for a home brew serial cable
also a shot of the inside of the router
I paid $60 for this linksys (brand new)
I am trying to figure out if there is an easy way to add an i/o expansion
but I have time to return it
LawrenceG did you make the PCB for the rs232?
it has some, but I dont know how much is accessible... there is always usb2, or maybe pulling the mini pcicard... have you ever seen mini pci i/o cards?
yes... using emc!
I have, but never used them.
same cct for another project... better mechanical design http://members.shaw.ca/swstuff/kenwood.html
I'm trying to see if I can get the netgear locally
its no longer in production... EOL'ed last year I think... it was too expensive
you can probably get the ones on ebay for around $18 to $20 plus shipping... they usually bid up to a little over $18
not bad for a linux computer with 2 serial ports and all the network stuff
The WGT634U is based on the Broadcom 5365P board that features a 200 MHz MIPS CPU along with 2 serial ports, 8 MB flash, 32 MB RAM, a wireless network card, a USB 2.0 port and 5 10/100 wired network ports.
Huh? you just said you paid $40 EACH
they were $39.95cdn including shipping (buy it now)... so I ended up paying about $25usd plus shipping
that one I sent you the ebay item on on at $14.50 + $14.95 shipping to canada would cost me about $34cdn + another $5 for the post office + 13% taxes
the ones I bought were on this side of the border, so no extra costs
I think they were a good deal.... they run on 12v... maybe not bad for a car computer.... it could link to the internet everytime it drove by a Starbucks!
around the corner from work.... http://justdeals.stores.yahoo.net/wgt634unar.html
$44.95 is a bit high... but if they are local, they might give you a break as they advert "free shipping"
yea... I tried to get a deal on a batch of 5 and they laughed
I'd *LOVE* a media server.... a wifi appliance I attach to the TV w/ remote, and the netgear thing with a 300GB USB ext drive I have
A buddy of mine has one by his stereo and he streams all his mp3's from his computer to the stereo via the wireless link and uses a USB sound dongle
hey... great minds think alike
I was going to use them for remote vhf receivers for the local repeater... stream receiver audio across the internet from 3 or 4 locations
and vote on best snr
It was funny.... I have movies on the ext 300gb hdd connected to the laptop via usb, coming across the lan to my gf's computer in the living room, stringing a video cable from her computer to the TV hearing audio from the stero connected to her computer watching it on the "dual screnn" (tv out) to the 42" tv
lots of technology.... hard to do inthe days of tubes
did you see that video last year of the guy that had his outside xmas lights controlled by computer?
I think so
one could do it with one of these... wireless (excluding several kw of lighting cords)
Yeah, I love the idea of the cheap HW being utilized for other things.
its probably on utube somewhere
Eeewww This item is refurbished and will ship in a non-retail box.
yes... verified... I plugged a hd in and had reasonable speed.... not like a desktop, as there is a pretty small cpu working in the box
If I remember... was about 3-4Mbytes/sec on hdparm -tT test
old laptop drive speed
I just searched their closed auctions.... been going for about $22/ea on avg.
wgt634u- the only thing I have heard bad about them is the original software and they tend to overheat
I pulled the 2 side panels out to let the serial cables out and more air in
I have been using one with original software for over a month now with no problems
yup.... it doesnt seem to crash
I suspect you could also toss in a tiny fan too
I wonder if they have USB to composite video out?
I have seen some mods where the cut a hole in the case and glue on a tiny fan.... it would have been much better if they just put a slightly larger heatsing on the cpu
hmmm.. a usb video card
maybe a minipci one around?
not that you could run X on such a small platform
no, just a usb video sender
[06:45:47] <Jymmm> http://cgi.ebay.com/Wireless-Audio-Video-Sender-Receiver-w-USB-input_W0QQitemZ110053343492QQihZ001QQcategoryZ294QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
not EXACTLY what I had in mind...
youtube.com pisses me off.... no sound on the videos
Jymmm: going to head off to bed... cheers for now
LawrenceG read the stuff in RED
[13:55:03] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24699&page=14
I ment http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24699&page=14
mariss is still giving pointers. But what pointers he is giving - I don't think anyone can produce :) he is good.
seen the last post?
yes- mistersunshine is bo^dick
anonimasu: when you where tuning your pid loop - what where you graphing in halscope?
I cant remember..
the requested and the actual I think..
I can check when I get back home
are there a day to to block delete in emc?
or something like it
how do you use block delete?
im trying to get this post to play nice..
SWPadnos: I played some more with the servo last night - The calculated I and D actually work quite well for a star.
with out any more tuning - I was getting following errors less than .010 up to 450ipm
have you done any testing to check linearity of PWM output vs. motor speed?
that's probably step 1 :)
anonimasu: in the development version of emc, block delete has been added. In 2.0.x, the block delete syntax is accepted but the block delete switch is always treated as disabled (I think)
hmm - how would you go about tuning? 500 words or less
this is just for checking the drive charicteristics, to see if you have something that's tunable
ah - so if it wasn't linear > pwm to rpm.. It would be pretty hard to tune?
first, I'd not use emc to tune. I'd use a bare HAL with the needed drivers/components
yeah, for PID to work, the system has to be "linear, time invariant"
so it needs to respond the same regardless of base conditions (like speed)
and it needs to remain the same over time (which it should, unless something breaks)
I have a short course on "PID for programmers" - let me see if I can find a copy
from what I see - it looks like you send the loop a square wave and check command vs position.
command vs actual
with a bare HAL setup, you'd do that by using sets on the command-pos signal into the PID block
[15:54:44] <alex_joni> http://resursadefun.ro/imagini/Digi-2.jpg
[15:55:01] <alex_joni> http://resursadefun.ro/imagini/DigiTv.jpg
alex_joni: heh, that's quite similar to many apartments here in sweden
people that never heard of cable
I live too far out in the sticks to get cable.
skunkworks: bet you don't have 237,5 neighbours
I was lucky to be close enough to a remote to get dsl.
yah- neighbor density is pretty low. :)
here we go: http://www.wescottdesign.com/articles/articles.html
there's a lot of theory there, but if you can wade through it, you'll understand motor control (and some generic control theory) very well
* alex_joni says l8er
I like being in the digital realm. pwm out - quaduture in. (it is why I started with steppers)
the world is analog though :)
yes - but I don't like it
skunkworks: I'm in perfect agreement with you on this one
I like to view the world with a "noise margin" as well - it just doesn't always work out
[Global Notice] Hi all, just a quick note to let you know I will be doing some quick rehubbing of our European servers in a moment. It should all be quick and painfree. Please hang in there while we jump and thank you for using freenode!
alex_joni: Ive been getting "unexpected" realtime delays lately
anonimasu: onboard video?
hmm.. then maybe something else..
skunkworks also said it's happening to him when plugging in an USB stick
does it affect anything when making parts?
it should :)
* anonimasu just made nice scrap
although in your case it might be forgivable
ended up 115,XX
you don't really generate the steps from the parport
and it's 104 on the drawing
oh.. that sounds like a lot
11 mm ?
I've checked my adjustment..
and it's right..
sounds to me like somethings fishy there
is this only one direction? akaX ?
I think it's all axes..
and this worked ok before?
when running the older version of emc2
maybe you ran the wrong config ?
how much older?
there's just one univstep config..
from the livecd..
what version are you running now?
let me check..
older versions of emc2 do not report the "unexpected realtime delay"; that feature was added in 2.0.4
yeah, but other than reporting that error nothing else was changed
whre where can I check my version?
axis -> help
2.0.4 is the devel version i'm running
2.0.4 is not the development version, it's the stable release version
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/ (conv.comp.in mkconv.sh .cvsignore Submakefile): add converters between each pair of HAL types
2.0.3 is the one that came with my setup..
let me check the other one
2.0.3 is the one on the cd
it should have been updated automatically to 2.0.4
ok, that is development
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/Makefile: clean up extra generated files
the configurations are not compatible though
it moves really exact when moving it..
that's what disturbs me..
this is g340 servo ?
* alex_joni hmmms
maybe you had some offsets active?
if I had it would have been off center..
still 104mm is 104mm :)
did you use block delete? I noticed you asked about that earlier
anonimasu: depends how the program is written
want to have a look at the program?
sure.. but I have no AXIS around to load it :/
but put it online, maybe someone else will look at it too
pastebin.ca should do the trick
I have a http to put it on
[17:36:44] <anonimasu> http://www.almaskin.se/FIXTUR.NC
want a screenshot?
[17:40:02] <anonimasu> http://www.almaskin.se/Screenshot-1.png
and that opens without an error?
* alex_joni finds it odd that you have an G0 on the second line
what's your cutter diameter?
when you mill that program the cutter will be positioned in the middle
e.g. half a radius milled on the right and half on the left
so 115,xx is not that far off
* anonimasu is being stupid
you probably want G41 or G42 to compensate
or make the program 104-12=92
alex_joni: actually with further measuring it's 116 ;)
well.. then it's ok ;)
yah - my motherboard doesnt like when I have a usb stick plugged into i
I would have never known unless I had the latest verion of emc that checks.
hmm - maybe that should be added to the wiki.
"How to verify your USB under emc"
a: Talk to skunkworks.
it is really easy with the latest emc2 - I plug in the usb drive - count to 10 and emc2 gives a message of "unexpected realtime delay"
skunkworks: does that do anything to your parts?
anonimasu Yeah... ------------------------/\/----------------------------------------
I get one when I start emc..
then it goes away..
maybe I should keep the usb stick out when machining
that is what I do
Never ran it with it in on this computer.
but the usc shouldnt miss even if I have it in..
I would not think as bad - if the usc card is sending the pulses.. Still would not take the chance ;)
mine is a mini 400mhz originally 600mhz now compaq computer I got from a univerity sale.
other than that issue - it has been working great.
* anonimasu nods
Another random question - could you have a separate pid loop for each of the 2 axis directions?
skunkworks: you mean, different PID parameters depending on the direction? that's not supported at the moment but if it is needed it would be a SMOP to add it.
skunkworks: do you think you need that?
Yes. I don't know if I need it - and I suppose I shouldn't... But wouldn't you think a vertical axis could be tuned better if you where using a different loop for each direction?
yeah that does seem plausible
the big mill is hydraulicly counter balanced - So I guess it shouldn't be as big a deal.
It is accually easier for the axis to go up than down
I'm not sure I ever heard of such a system
it seems like you would have some kind of unwanted discontinuity at the reversal
or some really bad oscilations which you can't properly tune
making 2 different controls working together is pretty hard
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/Submakefile: fix a few out-of-range checks in the conv comps. make them depend on Submakefile, since changes to that file can change the generated files.
making the same part again
skunkworks: im ponedring doing that
same size ? :-P
if this parts gets scrapped im going to kill something
last pass now
now lets see :)
* alex_joni loves salty yoghurt
argh *ZIP* and into the part:
ive got a broken shift
the measurements matches up
.01 ?! That is UNACCEPTABLE! lol
Jymmm: mm not inches ;)
so a different pid loop for each direction of movement is bad? Just trying to think outside the box.
skunkworks: probably so
oh what do you know? :)
what until I get this machine running and make my design for a perpetual motion machine.
and antigrav unit
alex_joni: microns ans is UNACCEPTABLE!
Lerneaen_Hydra__ is now known as Lerneaen_Hydra
bah ... so, ndiswrapper on etch. compile from source right?
lo anon, robin
skunkworks: yeah it sucks..
skunkworks: 0.01is a huge deviation from the plot..
though I should gear my machine a bit, so I can adjust ie even tighter
skunkworks: got a cad of how it looks..
.01? I hope your kidding
though it's acceptable..
nice looking part though
* anonimasu is half shitting you
it's a fixture for something im going to make
I would say that if you breath on it - it will change more than that
im going to draw a design for some beltboxes..
skunkworks: how's the servodrive comming along?
Good. Really excited about it.
how do they work?
[21:46:18] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/Endoder1.JPG
and are you planning to release something later :)
[21:46:31] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/mess.JPG
yeah.. the brake
:) So far so good. Just started tuning.
if it works really good I'm going to build one if you let me copy yours when you are done :)
* anonimasu is interested in big servodrives
The circuit as is is here... http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schem/
no current limit yet
I need to learn how to etch and stuff
who needs that anyway ;)
umm... so when's a new RT kernel coming out for ubuntu 6.1?
or I should just stick with 6.01 for the time being?
skunkworks: fuses are a great way to limit current ;)
albeit a bit cruse
that is my thought for now
A-L-P-H-A: as far as I know they are only going to support the lts 6.01
if you have a feedback input you can pipe the current draw back..
via a shunt and handle it in sofware on the pc :)
the latest realtime kernel is built on 6.06 LTS
what cradek said
skunkworks: what do you think about that?
since it's a long term release I don't know of any plans to build a new kernel anytime soon
* alex_joni lost interest in the bleeding edge too
(I really like the idea of their LTS releases for this reason)
hm, maybe I should program my plc tomorrow and hook it up as spindle load meter :)
anonimasu: the next plan is just to put a current sense resister aporx .01ohm and a simple comparator to disable the logic.
would the next release be for the next version of LTS? (a bit over a year from now?)
skunkworks: handling it all on the drive is really nice also
spindle load meter(pressure sensor)
Lerneaen_Hydra: no plans yet, but probably
Lerneaen_Hydra: like breezy->dapper there will be an overlap period so people can get converted
that sounds like a good idea imo, no need for XGL in a cnc environment yet ;)
* robin_sz is tired
I fear XGL+realtime
actually I fear XGL, but that's another story
cradek: yeah, scary stuff
i fear proctologists ...
cnc control isn't really the targeted audience ;=
* alex_joni thinks about trying AixGl
anonimasu: use your mill to cut circuit boards
thats what I do.
yeah, why not.. I have a small airspindle I could use..
and cradek does
* skunkworks needs to install eagle on ubuntu to try cradeks script
* skunkworks is too lazy to figure out why it doesn't work on windows
as simple as you can get - emc2->printer port->H-bridge->servo->encoder->printer port short of steppers.
* skunkworks is still pretty amazed by it
skunkworks: it is probably a simple path problem
skunkworks: but on ubuntu, turn on the multiverse repository, and you can simply install eagle with 'apt-get install eagle'
Yes - I am used to ubuntu enough now that I really don't have an issue using it on ubuntu
should install it on my portable. :) (ubuntu)
is eagle different between windows and linux?
(I've never used it on linux)
er, on windows
* skunkworks doesn't know if he is ready for it.
it looks pretty similar to me on both platforms
not that I know of - jmkasunich modified my circuit on ubuntu - then I finished it on windows
I should say linux. I think he just recently went to ubuntu
he's had ubuntu on one workstation for several months, so you were probably also correct the first time :)
since the compile farm changes, since the ubuntu compile farm slot is his workstation
heh .. the latest BOFH is nice
or where are they located rather?
[22:30:26] <alex_joni> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/10/bofh_2006_episode_38/
[22:33:12] <alex_joni> http://www.everytopicintheuniverseexceptchickens.com/
never ever click random links.
[22:35:32] <anonimasu> http://www.petardas.com/cositas/sorpresa
ohh.. a picture of anders
alex_joni: the really funny bit is that the article on chickens is locked due to vandalism
yeah.. noticed that
* robin_z is happy
my laptop eat its harddrive lasty week ... I got a new drive, installed debian etch, built ndiswrapper and installed the Windows driver fro the wireless card and ... it all works,. nice wireless laptop, no problem
linux is gettign WAY easier than it used to be
robin_z: there's also madwifi
not for thsi card I dont think
so busy this week ...
employed another welder ....
interviewing another tomorow
I know the guy tomorow is very very good ... seen his work
how are you?