anyone think for a framed cabinet door, that wood biscuits would be strong enough?
jepler, know anything about wood working?
wood-working is like inaccurate machining in crappy materials with crappy tools right?
fenn, but pays more... and is more profitable...
more esthetic to some
Wood working is only like that if you let it be...
[01:51:49] <A-L-P-H-A> http://18.104.22.168/screenshots/21-09-061346.jpg
is what I'm attempting.
I like it a lot.
the doors to be 1ft x 3 ft.
too bad that thing is like all particle board...
I want to make mine outta pine... as I can't afford oak.
that shitty picture was taken with my camera phone.
Nice storage unit.
what's the very narrow door on the right?
the side, long blank panel, is a pull out, full length mirror, with some storage in there.
Getting real wood is a problem anymore, an expensive problem :-(.
K`zan, pine is still affordable.
oak, maple... gah. :(
if I was to do my kitchen, I would do it.
A-L-P-H-A: Yeah, true, the problem with that is that it is pine :).
I like pine...
Which I wish I could afford :-) LOL.
it's a light wood... unfortunately not a hardwood.
Easy to work with, that is for sure.
but at least it's solid wood still.
Yep, that makes it nice rather than the sawdust and glue crap...
I was thinking of making two of those units... 'maybe' the pull out mirror...
And you can stain it so it looks good.
Still soft though.
K`zan, it's not a table... it's just a cabinet... I don't think it'll get abused too badly.
Started working on the tool post holders.
it'd be different if it was a chair or desk, table...
know what I mean?
Should certainly do for that, quite nicely.
Still I drool over some of the old stuff made out of REAL wood :-).
I would photo my shelves... but there's shit infront of it, as I'm cleaning my room to make room for those shelves/cabinets I want to make
K`zan... I have my bed, and dresser, made of solid birch... love that color.
Heh, I'm not proud, I did :-). In the link I posted last night.
Yeah, it is NICE.
Really like having some room around the mill.
I'm sure as hell not going to pay $5 a little knob like that, considering I have a lathe, and mill where I can do it all myself.
pls post the link again. :)
That HF mini-cutoff saw came in today, FAR less than optimal...
[02:00:12] <K`zan> http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/MyMachineShop/projects/ToolmakersViceClamps/index.html
Used to have everything on that one table...
ooooooooh... little clamps. :)
They worked out really well :-). /me pleased :-)!
Takes a while to dig out that .325 hole in the block with that thing though, will be glad to get the CNC on it, MUCH less cranking :).
Taking a break for a beer and pizza before jumping back into it.
Running the indicator across the 2" size comes out to about 0.0005, QUITE pleased with that.
Didn't even clean up the edge.
that looks like a nice vise
Enco428-9126 on sale for $50.
Wish it had the slots in the end, but I can live with it.
Thanks :-). Beats bloody hell out of the drill press vices.
I've had one like that for many years - I like it
you can't clamp the ends on your table anyway
got it from MSC
True, but I almost ordered the expanded tables now that I have that whole desktop for it :).
mine has end and side slots
Wish I could find some smaller clamps, the ones I have are the 4" strap clamps and on that table they really suck.
LMS has been out of the big set for some time now, I'll probably make my own before he gets stock in again.
you mean general purpose clamps, not for the vise? (you just made vise ones, right?)
Not that hard really.
Yes, just regular old strap clamps.
can't believe you do this in an apt.
Why, small tools...
And a real agressive cleanup routine :-).
Shields contain most of it.
and the shop vac takes care of it nicely.
Do spend a lot of time cleaning up though.
grizzly sells step clamps 2-1/2" long
that's a cute little lathe
anyways... was thinking of that unit but with frosted acrylic, to get a nice clean look.
THanks :-), Not a 12x36, but it sure makes a lot of impossible things possible :-).
yeah I bet
does it have change gears? I can't tell
Frosted glass would look good :-).
cradek: Yes, it does.
cradek, you got some spare time atm?
yes, a bit
want to help me setup EMC with me?
K`zan: I made a really great gcode subroutine for cutting slots like in your clamps
emc2 that is.
well is it the having-trouble-after-reading-the-docs-and-trying-to-figure-it-out-myself type of questions?
hmm sorry, that made me sound like more of an asshole than I really am
what are you working on?
haven't worked on anything yet.
Gonna go work on the tool holder, bbl.
so what can I help with?
atm, looking at the docs. :) Unless you want to be on standby, and guide me through it all again... [this time me taking notes]
I've got a mill, and lathe... both will be hooked up to the computer... but only one at a time.
have you had them working before?
lathe has 4 axis (XYZc), mill has 4.
cradek, I had, but that install was toasted...
the lathe = 100% with turboCNC.
mill... umm... 100% but slow with EMC, SWPadnos saw an error last time in my install file.
but that was corrected.
I should find jepler's wizard again.
lathe has a Y axis?
is that tool up and down or something?
but that is almost never hooked up.
it sits on the ground, where it can't fall over.
okay... VNC into the emc machine, so I don't have to move back and forth between rooms
[02:43:21] <ALPHA-EMC> http://hashmysql.org/paste/2644
what's an nml file?
what's a decent speed I should be able to expect?
30ipm out of the question?
just a text file.
I'll rename it.
deja vu from an irc screen.
I'll rename it to .txt
you said txt the first time, which didn't exist
now it does
they both do.
top is the general configuration...
top of the text file is the gen config.
brb... I need something to drink... and a pain killer
the gear ratios are calculated wrong, I think
at base period of 50000nsec and scale of 4000 steps/inch you have an absolute max speed of 2.5inch/sec
it's 2000 steps/rev, and 20/3 rev per inch for Z, and 10/3 rev/inch for X+Y
(240 degrees at the stepper is 360 degrees at the screw)
ok, since they're all set to 4000 it's surely wrong
I guess I don't know what the question is :-)
yep - it's closer to 10 times that, I think
oh am I supposed to be just looking at the comment?
I think maybe anything near a line like !!!!!!! ALPHA
but I read the comment, since it (intelligently) seemed to describe the actual machine :)
SWPadnos, small gear is on the motor... big gear is on the motion mechanism (ballscrew/worm)
ok - the comment is wrong then
but that's even worse for speed
can you turn down the microsteps?
not with the 201
no... the microsteps are set, unless I buy the board from Mariss... which I'm willing to do soon.
unless you upgrade with the G901 module
or G902 or whatever
high microsteps and software step generation are a terrible combination
I could buy the 100/101 or the daughter board.
all cost about the same.
swap the gears to mathc the comment - that'll give you 2.25x the speed
and I have some extra cash, atm, to spend on this junk.
the GRex won't help you
unless you want to be tied to mach for a while
how much resolution loss would I have here?
(and no closed loop)
but I think you can handle it. look at the resolution now:
hmm... how much accuracy do I need? :)
true... it's insane.
I can go buy new gears, and remachine them pretty easily.
you're at 15000 and 30000 steps/inch right now
err... getting the big gears off the ball screws is gonna be a little bitch.
how fast can you run the BASE_PERIOD?
with the shit razr phone
I don't own a scope, so I can't tell
don't worry about photos ATM
you can still easily get 60ipm at 20usec with 15000 scale
that's more of a "tweak it downward until the machine is sluggish" thing
my slowish machine runs fine at 25usec
how fast do you want X/Y to move?
mine as well - a celeron 500 that can do ~16, I think
(~16 uS base period, that is, or around 30k steps/sec)
30ipm would be awesome... but 20 would be the lowest max speed I'd like
if you only want 30ipm you have no problem at all
you should be able to get that even on Z
right - that's 0.5 IPS, so you only need 7500 PPS, or 15000 interrupts/sec
double for Z
I don't see any problem here
okay... so no new hardware or setups atm?
if you have the power you can go somewhat faster in X and Y
no, just plug it in and set the numbers
nah - leave it
try 20 or so for BASE_PERIOD
what version of emc are you using?
BASE_PERIOD = 20000
in AXIS_0 and AXIS_1 set MAX_VELOCITY=.5
in AXIS_2 set MAX_VELOCITY=.5 and INPUT_SCALE=30000 0
the accel of 20 might be a tad optimistic but try it there first anyway
cradek, isn't that max of 0.25?
no reason Z can't go 30ipm as well
unless you don't want it to, of course
[03:20:35] <A-L-P-H-A> http://22.214.171.124/emc/2.txt
[description gear tooth corrected, changes applied]
reviews, and options, would be greatly appreciated.
in TRAJ turn MAX_ACCEL up to 35
and MAX_VELOCITY .9
cycle times all correct and stuff?
yes I think so
[traj] max_velocity = 0.9
did you say you have an A axis?
for the lathe... this is the setup for the mill.
ok just 3 for the mill?
shouldn't [TRAJ]MAX_VEL be 0.85 or so?
you're probably done then, if the pinout to your drivers matches
I do have a rotary table... but that'll be in the future... after the mill will make the plate for the rotary table. :)
0.9 is > 0.5*sqrt(3)
I believe I corrected my pins to match the default for emc.
doesn't matter as long as it's >= .866
shouldn't it be <0.866 ?
<=, I guess
well I dunno, it depends what you want
I like the axis vels to do the limiting
whichever is lower limits the vel
lets put it this way... materials I'll be machining is plexiglass, alu, mild steel... with (max) 1/2" end mills.
ok, so TRAJ really doesn't matter then
not really, unless you want to limit the tooltip vel for some reason
anyone know what arthritus feels like? my right hand pinky finger joint hurts... not sure if it's the base of the nail, or the knuckle that hurts.
right - it's only useful if you want the TRAJ max to be below the actual machine capabilities (defined in AXIS_N sections)
but I like to be able to jog to 1,0,0 and 1,1,1 in the same amount of time
you need to stop playing FPS games ;)
SWPadnos, it's my right hand, not left... right hand is on the mouse
and yeah, I have stopped.
it's from all that banging on the backspace key
the mouse hand has to do most of the twitching ;)
cradek, could be
and hitting enter
use your thumb for backspace for a while
actually I just noticed I don't hit the backspace with my pinky
heh, sorry that's not very helpful
I hit it with my right middle.
when I have a joint that hurts, I just baby it for a while and it goes away
that's worked well for me so far I guess
I hold shift, and |\ end <cr> with my pinky... and some punctions.
i took a pain killer for it.
time to power up, double check the pinouts from the parallel to the controller board.
advil works well for pains due to inflammation (most joint pain I think)
I love stupid criminals. http://my.break.com/Media/View.aspx?ContentID=156719&ChannelName=movies
These 2 criminals picked the wrong guy to rob, he appears to be a pro boxer and kicks both their ass very hard!
does it matter if I'm updating my linux kernel?
as long as I dont kill magma [I think that was what that kernel was called]
you mean a 2.6.15.xx update from ubuntu?
it doesn't matter since you don't run it anyway
but it won't hurt anything
on the livecd I removed that kernel so nobody ever has to download an update
good... caue the update's running... and I'm checking my pinouts atm
yeah no sweat
in the hal file... what is the e-stop line?
# create a signal for the estop loopback
linkpp iocontrol.0.user-enable-out iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
missed that line
now how do I assign it pin 11?
I see it as just user-enabled
I don't follow
I have an estop switch... it's connected to pin 11.
how do assign pin 11 so that hal understands that?
hmm I'm not sure
what pin is normally assigned to the estop?
No estop in the new EMC?
Back, BTW :-)
sure, but I don't quite know how it works
I think user-enable-out comes from the gui to the externl circuitry, and emc-enable-in comes in after it
so, in emc gui, I can assign it there.
same with axis?
so if you put enable-out on one output, to your switch, then back into enable-in, you would get what you want
but that takes two pins, not one like you have it
maybe you can use an and block
SWPadnos: do you know how to do it?
I'm not really sure
I mean, it's obvious how to hook the pins together, but I'm not sure what the operation of the estop pins is these days
ALPHA-EMC: can ou put the switch between two pins like I described?
assuming you have a spare output
I have pines 9-15 free
1 and 14 are assigned outputs... [relays]
9-13,15 are free.
aren't some of those inputs?
10-13,15 are inputs
1,14 are also
I forget how I made this board... I need to decipher it again. argh. that ain't gonna be fun. :)
I'll live without an estop for the moment.
time to power things up...
the other thing to do is wait and ask alex in a few hours
things are running... my red led indicates my breakout board is working. :)
cradek: I could do that... but I'm not milling... so I should be safe enough.
no... haven't powed the drivers yet
just the break out board. :D
arg it's late
let me know in the morning :-)
everything's powered up
no blown fuses!
oh damn - it is late
smoke test passed
it's midnight on a sat
night nightt. good luck A-L-P-H-A
midnight for a still-somewhat-sick guy, who's too old to care about Saturday Night any more ;)
uh... not sure who's error this is.
"Could not execute command: evolution" Everify that this command exists
what does that have to do with emc?
that's from the upgrade, I think
Saturday Night(TM) most dangerous day of the week :-).
I tried to start emc, and that was the error the popped up
emc isn't showing up.
run 'emc' in a shell
isn't evolution a mail program?
probably getting an error
just stalls at "EMC2 - 2.0.3"
I can pick a configuration
ohhh... everything is just laggy
I'm going to restart, as ubuntu is telling me too anyways
change your 20usec period to 25
okay... I'll do that now
I suspect that running VNC will make the sluggishness more noticeable, though I could be wrong
you don't have to restart, that's just because of the kernel upgrade you don't use
not so laggy now
I think 20 is pretty low for your machine
my PIII is much nicer at 25
it shouldn't be, with an Athlon 700 or 900
is this a slot-type athlon?
It's a duron.
a celeron class
hmmm - I don't think those ever came in a card-style module - only chips
this is a chip
not a slot
ok goodnight for real this time
cradek: okay night man
emc is running really slowly... it's stuck after "Starting emc..."
there we go
you can try increasing the BASE_PERIOD, but hopefully it will be OK somewhere below 33333
it's finnaly loaded
that's what you need for 30 IPM on Z
if you don't mind going slower in Z, then you can go to 66666, which is the limit for 30 IPM in X+Y (but reduce the AXIS_2 MAX_VEL)
crap... well... lets figure this out... it's a 3/4hp motor.
brb... I can't stand this machine
this has nothing to do with the motors (yet), unless you're talking about the CNC being sluggish
3/4hp motor for the spindle.
1/2" 3 flute mill, maybe 2flute.
the sluggishness is very likely due to the BASE_PERIOD being too low
SFM, suggestion is what again? and chip size for alu? for mild steel?
SWPadnos, set it to like 30 then?
25 is still sluggish.
A-L-P-H-A: cutting speed on any small mill is _not_ going to be anywhere near 30 ipm
only rapids will be that fast
you should experiment a little. if 20 is too low, but 50 was fine, then try doing a binary search to see how fast you can go without the sluggishness
SWPadnos, I was about to...
ok - go for it ;)
(but 35 would be the center point between 20 and 50 ;) )
okay. 40 works.
that wasn't binary either - I'm going to bed ;)
SWPadnos, I was at 25 already... and so there the binary of that would have been somewhere between 35 and 40... I just didn't want to break out the calculator
wait... I was at 30, not 25.
so I was binary when I went 40.
35 seems okay.
33333 is the magic number to get below
I'm taking you literrally on this.
33333 gives you 30k interrupts/sec, or 15k steps/sec
that's 0.5 IPS, or 30 IPM max speed
killing what I don't need.
how long should it take to come on the screen?
that's on Z, of course
it's taking like 10 seconds to load up axis.
how much RAM does the machine have>
from the splash screen going away, to AXIS showing up
G00 X0 Y0
my magnificant testing gcode.
things are a little laggy, but 30 will still be bearable.
I wonder should I borrow a scope from a friend, and test it I'm actually producing these values.
I got to get that thing CNC'd, my hands are cramping from all the cranking :).
DC motor, to just crank back and forth. :)
okay. the machine moves.
not sure about the directions... but hey... I'm not complaining atm.
:-), next month we order the mounts and driver/steppers....
order mounts? just make em. ;)
Just burned the emc2 live cd and am booting it to see what;s there.
I did... but it was such a pain in the ass...
K`zan. not much... looks like ubuntu. :)
Exactly the reason I am ordering them :-).
Hope this one works, not much luck with ubuntu here dispite all the good reports.
would not even run on the laptop in 384M...
if you got decent hardware, it's good
Booted, but wouldn't run anything.
if you got weird hardware, nonstandard stuff, you're SOL
Knoppix flies on the laptop :-).
my laptop runs right outta the box.
or off the CD.
I think it wanted a lot more RAM, ancient laptop.
my desktop, that's a different story.
I have multiple monitors, so getting linux to play nice, was hell.
[04:45:53] <K`zan> http://www.cncfusion.com/micromill1.html
also my soundcard isn't standard... so that screws up too... it's an SB live! 128bit... it's recognized, and plays, but not as SPDif.
Didn't have any problems getting multiple monitors to work, just don't like the way they work. Just add more desktops :)>
X1 - micro-mill
First one at the top of the page.
#1? #2? #3?
That is the one.
Plug and play. Once I get something that is running CNC, I can do about anything I can draw.
seems pricy... :) but if you got the coin, why not?!? :)
K`zan, also that you can fit
Yep, could make my own, but this will have more resale value for when I go to the Super X3 :).
what do you wanna make? :)
adult sex toys I hear has a great following... but that's more lathe work. :D
Got one of those two, but I am not real enthralled over friction :), but if they pay, who knows LOL!
More than anything else I am about over the cranking on that, a bridgeport it ain't.
I seriously thought about making dildos to sell... but then I thought about it otherwise...
and decided against it.
You should have fun testing them :)
<shrug> no real clue why... not much challenge in making them.
Nope, very simple tool :).
K`zan, I seriously thought about that too... :)
but my lathe is limited in size... so I didn't ... I'll do it on my buddy's lathe.
Dildo Test Labs, what a job title that would be on your resume :)
he's got a 12x36
Maybe ubuntu has finished booting, lemme see.
[04:52:26] <A-L-P-H-A> http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?&NETID=2024060923061174408&NTITEM=SPT240
Sigh, buffer I/O error on hdd. goddamn ubuntu...
First error ever on that drive, of course it would be ubuntu.
lemme reboot it and see what happens.
[04:53:55] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47377
Good price for a biscut cutter.
top one is in canuckian $
got some mismatch on something during the check...
lemme go back and see if there is an md5sum I missed for the download.
there should be a CD test.
Running that now, had one mismatch as witnessed by sloppy screen work, no idea what the mismatch was though, maybe it will tell me when done.
It rebooted and is back to giving I/O errors. md5sum on the iso checks out.
ubuntu is such a piece of crap for me, sigh...
lemm try reburning it, also the first coaster I have gotten off this drive, if that is the proble,
just for jollies, let me boot it on this box, brb
Ubunut, not yet I haven't :-).
I know I had BIG problems installing ubuntu primarily based on disk space.
Made my first coaster from the looks of it and a memorex CD as well.
The GUI installer doesn't allow you to limit what's installed. And if you try to select what you want, it screws up anyway.
Jymmm: You have the zylotex driver ?
xylotex he does
stay away from them.
Heh, at about 20x the price...
K`zan: As, yeah I do.
K`zan you are using a china mill right?
Jymmm: What do you think of it, I am thinking of the 3 axis version.
K`zan No stall protection
Not gods gift to precision, no :-). Harbor Freight Micro-Mill
Stalls and fries the steppers?
Geckos have circuitry to prevent the steppers from stalling
K`zan stalling means ruined workpiece
For 10x the price they sure should.
what are those about $500/ axis?
gecko's aren't that expensive.
For the cheapies?
K`zan $120 per axis
[05:16:39] <A-L-P-H-A> http://geckodrive.com/product.cfm?pid=12
K`zan are you just being cheap, or no finds, or ???
Jymmm, be nice.
A-L-P-H-A I have being very nice.
could say frugal instead. :)
I'd order a commerial setup if I could afford it.
K`zan: Well, If I knew then what I know now, I would have bought the geckos.
K`zan, skip the mounts, and get geckos instead.
THat is a good description :-( frugal.
LOL, that will look really good in a box by the mill...
K`zan The money you'll save in asprin and tequilia will pay for the geckos
hmmmmmm... I may buy the G212's or the G210... and resell my G201's to my buddy...
K`zan You get 2 hours into a job then have the steppers stall on you SIX TIMES and you tell me .
K`zan that's 14 hours wasted
Why are you stalling? Push it lighter :-).
K`zan It's only 40ipm
Only, that is amost 2"/sec...
Jymmm, getting gecko's? or got geckos?
K`zan it's mdf, any lighter and I'll be making butter.
not even... that's like 0.66ips
K`zan, how are you doing your math? :)
What are you driving with it a closed down vice?
fair to poor without a calculator :).
K`zan Do what you want, I told you what I would do.
Appreciate the advise, now to fit that into my budget...
Jymmm, she wants blood, your frist child, and the lean on your car.
md5sums check, lets try it again...
A-L-P-H-A wth are you talking about?
Jymmm, you asked what she wanted...
I made up a list
someone's angry at me.
Actually, none of the above :-).
he just left... weird... usually he puts up with my banter.
Geckos sure would be nice, but that is 3x the cost of what I am looking at.
for the driver.
maybe he didn't have his happy pills... I didn't think I was offending him... maybe bugging, but not offending
Bad day at blackrock, who knows?!?
K`zan, get the best... :) you won't distress about the lack of stress, the test says it's the best.
Yep and there are even better ones out there from the commercial folks... I can upgrade at some point if the need arises.
Actually I like the 269 in-oz steppers from Xylotex but I like the drivers better from HobbyCNC.
or, get them from oriental motors.
the whole package.
with AC stepper drivers... so you just plug them in, and pin them to the parallel port
no such site, checking...
they're prices are online as well.
Ocu, $235 for a 1.4 in-oz stepper and driver, xylotex is looking better and better :-)
Same errors on the second burn, doesn't look like the live cd is going to work for me.
K`zan, but it's like $185 for like a 300oz/in stepper ( in addition to a driver)
I installed ubuntu 6.0.1 lts, and then emc2... works fun after the tweaks from cradek, and SWPadnos.
never bothered with the live CD.
download ubuntu 6.0 (newest), and run it as a live CD... check to see if it works... if so, install on a scraficial machine, and install emc2.
I'm off to sleep... really really need it.
Ok, my frustration factor has exceeded maximum obnoxious tolerance here so I am going to call it a night too. Rest well.
* alex_joni is driving home
soon I'll be back online
lerman_ is now known as lerman
lerman_ is now known as lerman
hmmm - not much developer chat this morning :)
well I just got up
heh - lucky you
it's not luck, I had to try hard to get up this early
web browsing is very slow with all my upload bandwidth being used by FTP uploads
what are you working on?
I'm just uploading all the photos from the wedding I went to in Poland
I had the only computer around for a while, so I ended up with around 2G of photos
2G sounds like a lot of weddign photos...
yeah. and that doesn't include mine
there were four of us with digital cameras, and the guy with the D70s takes a *lot* of photos
and the 256kb upload speed of my DSL line is kinda slow for this amount of transfer
I feel the same when I have to upload an iso
but I think I have 512
if only I could get FIOS
I thought I had 512, but I'm pretty sure I don't now
unless FileZilla is half speed for some reason (like doing base64 encoding or some silly thing like that)
SWPadnos: I haven't tried it yet but recently learned about 'trickle' which does bandwidth limiting in userland
might be very nice for long uploads if your interactive performance sucks if it's saturated
I hadn't heard of it
it's pacakged in universe
it's running on another PC, which is running windows (and should be done in an hour or two)
trickle -d 100 wget http://linuxcnc.org/.....iso
gives a 99K/s download
that couldn't be easier could it
it must do an LD_PRELOAD trick
how about trickle -d 20 "put something with FTP" ?
ie, outbound traffic shaping
download / upload
-u rate Limit the upload bandwidth consumption to rate KB/s.
what kind of CPU usage do you see?
does it need kernel support for traffic shaping?
I think I found another glitch in stepgen. Now estop does not lose steps anymore.
quick hard drive copying question
or more accurately, a grub question
but now I get "GRUB GRUB GRUB" ... printed endlessly, rather than a successful boot
they're good with hotsauce
oh, you didn't later the MBR is sounds like
do you have a recovery cd?
I haven't checked with fdisk yet, so I'm not sure the boot partitions are set correctly
one minute - my wife is being demanding
not that kind of demanding, unfortunately ;)
anyway - I'm wondering about the next step, if the correct partition is bootable
I think grub may needa "refresher", but I'm not sure what it is
You have a backup of the data, just in case?
(and browsing is uber-slow right now, due to a massive upload I'm doing
it is a ghosted drive, so the original is there
ok, just wanted to make sure the original wasn't a defective drive or anything
it is, that's why I ghosted
but I don';t think it's way worse today than it was yesterday
Hey Jymmm, SWPadnos.
I'd grab a bootable recovery cd then reinstall grub, letting it set the MBR
hi A-L-P-H-A, how goes the machine?
SWPadnos, it moves
yeah - but no big transfers until another 50M or so has uploaded (only 5-10 minutes now)
need to verify that the machine indeeds moves, and then calculate the backlash.
how thick is that gear?
damn - now where is that ubuntu CD I used to install on my wife's computer?
oh, nm, just poor photo
it's off my razr...
I gave my camera away to my sister... looking for a new camera
the RAZR has good image quality for a phone, not so good for a camera
well... it's really poor lighting conditions.
at least you have the megapixel version (like me)
it can take some decent photos, where lighting is good, and your hand is steady
the light in my shop is good for humans, not so much for cmos sensors
A-L-P-H-A: I know that one... I still need to get MORE lighting.
I found a halogen light...
So did I , but the temp is way too low.
so I think I'm gonna mount that to the ceiling joists...
Ialso have a ton of white LEDs which I could make a light for...
how do i change the diameter of a pad in eagle?
the reason why i ask in this channel is that noone in #electronics know about this
I think cradek or jepler should be able to help you there.
they seem to be online
They always are, just the bodys aren't =)
to me it is apparent that it takes something special to perform a change of the diameter of a pad in eagle. i've tried to use the LAYER command and tried to hide all layers except the pads but the change command doesn't bite on the pads. it's just as simple as that
I've never seen eagle except the screenshots, sorry.
googling around hasn't helped so far
something tells me that eagle was never a success
it appears as if orcad has won the battle
maybe SWPadnos can help.
just anyone who is familiar with eagle
It is counter intuitive(sp)
but once you get used to it.
it's such a simple detail to change the pad diameter isn't it
but yet i have no idea how to do it
I have never used Eagle for anything real - I don't like it
sorry, but I can't help
SWPadnos: but you have real pcb software :)
* Skunkworks1 is installing it right now - don't remember the menu
I think it is - DRC - then restring
do you mean i have to define a rule there and then force all pads to follow that?
that is how I remember it.
unless you make a pad the way you want - which I have never done.
but like everyone said - jepler, cradek and fenn also have used it more than I
it feels crazy that one should have to do a custom footprint just to have the pad diameter slightly larger
i feel it hard to believe
this is really depressing
nothing $10-$20K wouldn't fix ;)
well unlimited would sort most thing out of course
there's a "change -> diameter -> (size)" command, but I can't figure out how to get Eagle to erither (a) let me select things to change or (b) let me apply a selected change to something
SWPadnos: Yah - I don't think that works for pads.
like I said, I don't work well with Eagle, that's why I bought a substantially more expensive package
the change/diameter command is linked from the PAD page in help
someone else had that problem months ago, you might search the logs.
Think that was me :)
cradek pointed me to the design rules. - restring. It got me by http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cbottom.JPG
it appeared to have done the trick, unfortunately on all pads at once
i was thinking about change individual pads but nevermind
anyone got the latest machinery's handbook?
electronic edition by chance? :)
I got the 26th... just looking around for the 27th. :)
I have the large print version, but no electronic
I think I paid $80 or so USD
urk... handbook with cdrom. $236.
hence the reason why I have only the printe version ;)
SCREW that... I'd be willing to pay for $80 for the book... or $80 for the CDrom.. but when combined, it shouldn't be $236CDN.
that's it... I'm determined to find it online and screw the copyrights.
data should be free, or kept secret... not sold. I'm being to sound like a GNU zealot.
[17:24:16] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.amazon.com/Machinerys-Handbook-27th/dp/0831127007
that ain't bad.
looks like no one released the 27th ed.
wd-40 is a great paint remover.
okay... is it a bad thing to CLR my milling table, to get rid of the surface rust?
steel wool - and wd-40
that'd work too
it's just mild dark spots... don't think I should even touch it.
just oil it
yeah... I've also realized that my table isn't true... but decent I think...
if we go with the X-Y plan... -Y as the base point, the dial is at 0. +X +0.002", +Y -0.0035 -X -0.0061
this is with an indicator being spun around the table...
mind you. the plate I'm doing it on, may not be flat...
cold rolled mild steel
oh shit... I have a mirror... I'll use that.
thats squareness of the spindle to the table
check flatness first
a 1-2-3 block on table and an indicator from 1-2-3 to table, move around & record flatness
you may be seening cuppinf of table
well... the piece of glass says now, starting from 270degrees going counter clockwise, is now 0.000", 0.000", 0.007", 0.007"
tomp: how does the 123 + indicator work?
I got 123 blocks.
a-ha! my version of Ghost doesn't understand ext3, so it copied as ext2 (and screwed up the journals in the process)
place 123 on table\then incicator on top of 123
and both a dial and test dial indicators.
then set point onto table, you read the 'tipping of the block as its moved arounf the surface
tomp: and just move it around to see if there's any dips/cups?
right, you gotts elinminate stuff from the .007 you see
ypu msr table to itself
SWPadnos: you can add a journal with tune2fs
SWPadnos: but why use ghost for unix fs? unix can copy filesystems just fine
the idea was to copy my wife's hard drive, complete with 4 partitions (/boot, swap, /, and a VFAT partition with Windows files
from her failing drive ...
I can probably boot from that drive again, and re-do the copy under Linux (though the number of clunk-tick sounds it makes is scary
ALPHA-EMC 1st make stuff straight & flat, then make them square to ech other, them make spinle or platen face perp to work plane
any othe order gets you readings you cant decipher
i used usrmot to send positions (x u z triplets) to motion and used 'a' abort command to interrupt them
how long does it take for tp->aborting to clear? ot seems like near 125 mS!
probably depends mostly on your acceleration
the machine has to decel to a stop
ok, reasonable, need quick
tomp: the table varies from +/- 0.001" from one end of the table to the other... so, it doesn't seem too bad
was using defaults in sim-tkemc
also depends how fast you're moving of course
ALPHA then you're flat but not perp, dont fix spindle tho till z travel is square to table ( spindle may not be colinear to Z )
but you're sending your messages through lots of non-realtime stuff, so the times are not bounded
alex_joni: you kicking? how do I connect an estop that's on pin11 and ground, to emc?
right speed dependant too, i was at 72ipm, keeping a 'standard'
what's your accel?
i used sim/tkemc.ini so i'd have to look it up, was also at 72ipm
assuming it's 20 ips2, and you're going 1.2ips, your results seem reasonable
sorry, its on another box, and reasonable.. ok, jsut wanted to know
i had modified usrmot.c to allow the 'load' function to also allow 'a' tokens in the file
ALPHA-EMC: what emc2 are you running?
then i sent ( thru a loaded file ) 0 0 0 , a, 1 0 0, a -1 0 0, a to simulate new positions fro an edm ( emc2.0.3)
ALPHA-EMC: is it NC or NO ?
the result was... 'error: can not load linear move' (or such) then i added sleep(.125) and it works
the message log said 'TP ABORTING'
ALPHA-EMC: ok, so you need these:
alex_joni: I can set it to either.
i'll fake in some quick accell and try again
tomp: I don't know anything about usrmot
linkps iocontrol.0.user-enable-out estop-out
alex_joni: I can test to see if it's NC/NO right now... if you give me a min or two
its just a shell to send some emcmot commands
ALPHA-EMC: no need
if you need to respond quickly to external stimulus, doing it in non-realtime is the wrong approach
alex_joni: that's it?
cradek: i was looking at simple models to discover the speed, yes realtime is better, but modelling quick is good info
ok I understand, you're just studying, not making a production system
i wouldnt stick my fingers in this one ;-)
the plots showed how quick it could abort, and the length of the 'wiggle' showed the 'response' ( i kept jerking X around but Y was continouous, so i got a zigzag)
aahh, the acceleration! the zigzag was increasing in freq as it neared end of Y command, i was seeing decelerationin Y causing more freq motion in X!
1,3,0 a -1,3,0 a 1,3,0 a -1,3,0 a gave this zigzag motion.
03cradek 07v2_0_branch * 10emc2/src/emc/task/emccanon.cc: move to tool change position if specified
03cradek 07v2_0_branch * 10emc2/configs/sim/axis.ini: use tool change position, increase diagonal velocities
what's gcode pause again?
g-code reference sheet
M0 is "pause program", G4 P- is "wait for P- seconds"
if the backlash is 0.0025" what's that do I put that in or the metric in the hal?
if the backlash is 0.0025" - do I put that inches or the mm in the hal?
everything in the ini uses the same units
you get to pick which ones
if your accels and velocities and soft limits are inches, then your backlash is too
jmkasunich: well units is the inch equiv of mm... everything else is in sae... so I guess I'm going inches.
ALPHA-EMC: you probably want inch all over
and UNITS = 0... some crazy number
did that... restarting emc, to see if my backlash calc was correct
may I ask something about units and steps?
yes, please do ( dunno if we/i can help)
I put units=1.0
ok, that means your ini file is in mm
and I have a stepper with 400 steps/rev
and a TPN axis screw with 3mm pitch
stepper directly connected to screw?
yes... according to the manual input scale's first number is the
that means 400 steps / 3 mm
this ain't right... I'm over shooting I tell it go G01 X0.05 F20, and it actually goes like 0.06 instead... and I tell it to go back to X0 and it goes gack... repeatable but wrong.
is that correct?
ALPHA-EMC: you sure it's at 0.05 ?
or does the display say that?
400 steps/rev divided by 3 mm/rev = 133.3333333
so that is your input scale
pier_casa: it's correct, unless you have a stepper driver with half steps or microsteps
alex_joni: dial indicator... reading the dial indicator.
so I can put in floats there?
ALPHA-EMC: make it go to 1 inch, and see how far off it is
ALPHA-EMC: probably your scale isn't right
ok that solves all
alex_joni: my test dial indicator doesn't go that much... but okay
ALPHA-EMC: what's your scale?
A-L-P-H-A, do you have any 1-2-3 blocks or parallels?
SWPadnos: yes 123
and squares... no parallels.
that should be 1" thick
0 on near side of 123, remove 123, move in1inch to whatever 123 was against, read indicator
oooooh. smart. :)
kk... doing now.
good luck bye all, thanks
OT, does this sound about right (overall)? Level of Experience: 1 year or less, 2 to 3 years, 4 to 6 years, 7 to 9, 10+ years
7 to 9 and 10
7 to 9 and 10+ is about the same
yup, I'm over shooting
Yeah, I'm just trying to have five levels, difficult to break up
A-L-P-H-A, by about how much?
SWPadnos: still measuring.
ALPHA-EMC: what's your setup?
Jymmm: I think it's exponential
take e^x and scale accordingly till you get your 5 levels :)
alex_joni: setup description should be at the top of the pastebin
ALPHA-EMC, one thing to check is that the motor shaft turns the right amount. you can command a move that should turn the saft an even number of times, and see if it lines up correctly
put a mark on the back shaft or the pulley or something for a reference
SWPadnos: on the ballscrew pully?
preferably the motor itself, to eliminate drivetrain issues
hmm... I'm starting to question myself now, if it is a 4 or 5 tpi ballscrew.
power down and crank by hand to measure
or put a ruler next to it and count to 5
shouldn't be hard to tell the difference between 4 and 5 should it?
I added the details of the scaling calcs to the pastebin: http://pastebin.ca/181317
although I doubt its the calcs, probalby the data
(like 4 tpi vs 5)
we went through the calcs last night
ALPHA-EMC: do you have measurement for the overshoot yet?
okay... this is whacked.
that helps us a lot
hang on... I turn it 1 REV = 0.250".
data, man, we need data!
so I guess I counted wrong...
then its 4 tpi
yeah... I counted the number of valleys in 1"
which was 5. :)
maybe it's a 1-and-a-quarter-start ballscrew ;)
pastebin updated with new values
input scale is 12000 now
just changed it
lets see if it moves properly now.
at least the X axis
Y axis time.
okay... I'm happy... except for my backlash, which is ass.
0.008 and 0.004 with ballscrews.
my X axis mount is shit-o-la... I'll make a new one once I get some coinage.
have you checked the belt tightness (and type)?
SWPadnos: belt's pretty tight.
is the lash between the screw and nut, or the screw moving in the mount?
it's the mount actuallyholding the nut down.
I don't have enough room beneight the X table.
oh, well thats good then
it can be fixed a lot cheaper than replacing the screw or nut with something better
I guess I could try and tighten that bracket holding the nut... but that would envolve a lot of work, more than I'm willing to do atm.
shit, if I don't do it soon, it'll be next spring before I'm willing to do anything... [buddy's lathe is outside in his garage]
jmkasunich: it's the bracket holding down the ballnut assembly... that's what's most likely giving me the slop.
oh ohwell... at least the machine is working... and capable... time to test the Z.
Z = 0.000 measurable backlash. :)
there is no such thing as 0.000 ;)
problem is... it's a spring that's holding it up... so when the endmill bites into the metal, it pulls the head down...
causing a shit surface finish.
alex_joni: with my shitt measurement tools, it measures to 0.000. :) Not naive enough to think it's really that.
okay now... what to go and play with and machine...
ALPHA-EMC: solved the estop stuff?
alex_joni: oh yeah.
play with titanium - it should be fun ;)
or maybe tungsten
titanium... I got some, but only round stock... and expensive to fuck up.
more expensive for the mill, omst likely ;)
alu, I got buckets of the butter... I'll play with that.
got some busted up pine to play with as well.
wonder what a fly cutter would do to pine.
I need to make a pen/marker mount, and have it as a expensive sprigraph machine.
good night aj
[isn't it only like 9pm over there?
almost midnight ;)
oh. okay... thanks for the help
ALPHA-EMC: I'm usually up way late.. but tired now
alex_joni: quit getting old. :)
I second that.
oh... man, this ergo chair is way way more comfy than that crap operator chair in the workshop
how the hell do I missplace a $600 collet set?
made one of the the worlds most expensive drawing machines now. :) CNC mill + 50cent bic pen... :)
50 cent bic clicky pen.
took like some scrap stock, threw it in the lathe, bored out a hole, to fit the pen, and then another large bore to fit the pen nozzle holder. put the spring in backwards, and wham... instint CNC pen holder with compensation. :D
A-L-P-H-A: you rock!
I thought it was funny. :)
took me longer to find the bic pen, than anything else.
anyone got any line art they can share, to I can see if my cnc machine can draw? :)
A-L-P-H-A like what?
Jymmm, anything that will fit like on a letter sheet piece of paper.
oh via you pen?
I'm gonna stick it to a peice of plexiglass, and use my new pen holder to draw.
lets say 6" x 6"... depth is 2d... so
pen can go up and down.
the pen has compensation... depth doesn't matter too much... I think the pen travel can do up to .2"
but you dont want the pen to go THRU the material =)
Jymmm, it's got a spring, to push the pen down on the paper.
bottom left corner being 0,0 ok?
Jymmm. not much of an issue.
A-L-P-H-A your name?
how are you doing this?
ok, what is it
just leave it as Lloyd
(I'm making it as we speak)
but how? corel? photoshop? autocad? some other program?
[22:51:39] <Jymmm> http://pastebin.ca/181440
checknig it out
[22:52:57] <Jymmm> http://pastebin.ca/181441
both expire in one hour.
what's the second one?
read the description
Oh, I went to the raw instead
what was it made with?
Jymmm... awwwh... how sweet.
F max was 20 right?
no clue, already deleted the files
looks like it... scanning through the code.
I'll plot this now... bottom left, is 0,0 right?
just double checking
correct, and Z0 is top of material
I think my X and Y axis' are reversed.
just trying to figure out how to reverse axis directions
no, in emc. not the gcode.
yeah, make the vlaues negative (iirc)
- in front of input scale
skunkworks: Jymmm: cools htanks
ALPHA-EMC : Well, is it doen yet?
I'm figuring out the axis directions again. :)
I only calibrated it this afternoon
how do I home emc (but not the machine?)
in the jog tab there is a home button if I rembemer right.
pick each axis and home it.
(as long as they are not physically set up in axis :)
HAHAHAHA... my really expensive pen drawing machine works. :D
Jymmm: thanks for the gcode.
hahahaha... LOVE it.
Just tried the Ubuntu 6.06 ISO, and it gave a green error about not recognizing the keyboard and stopped...
EMC2 - Ubuntu...
Does that sound like a familiar problem to anybody ?
What kind of pc is that wb9mjn?
This is A-L-P-H-A, what's jepler's site again?
specificaly the stippling program.
Hi Ray, its the same 700 MHz PIII ...
That I have running with RC_46....
I've never seen that in my installs but that's only 5 or so.
It sees and uses the keyboard on rc46
The Unbuntu splash screen came up, then a little while later, upper left screen in green leters something like "keyboard is unrecognized"...
but not when you boot from the Dapper.
Then some time after that, it gives a chart output , and in part of it, it says "err 8 " .. Hit any key after that and it reboots...
Yes...it runs fine with rc_46...
I have the motenc-100 board....
That should not prevent a boot into the live CD.
Let me start to boot here.
Yea, I have booted the orignal rc_46 CD I have on occaision after installing the Motenc-100...
okay. Not heard that either.
found the stippler program. :D
Did you try the ubuntu cd in safe graphics mode?
How do I try that ?
When grub gives a menu at the start, select the second option.
Never grubs....goes right into booting....
Never get a menu that is....
This a download of emc-live
It says booting from CD....and away it goes...Its EMC2...
The one you anounced a couple days ago...
You at the box now.
Its in another room....