alex_joni: : I installed xubuntu, man that's more than just lightweight, it's missing a lot of things too. Went ahaead and reinstalled ubuntu
JymmmEMC: it was worth a shot
what's missing ? (just for my piece of mind ;)
the ability to right-click a file, goto properties, and change perms. you ca only view them. No option to "run in terminal" either.
I DID like that I could right click on the desktop and have the menu there.
just little things.
those you usually can setup
for the various WM's
Maybe, just wsn't willing to I guess =)
I've installed nix on this box at least 5 times so far.
heh.. soon it'll get used to that ;)
hmm.. you do know that switching from xubuntu to ubuntu is just one command.. right?
but it might leave some dependencies behind
I had to switch video cards; FINALLY got 1600x1200 goin
When I went to Dell, it said it had a ATI card, but was coming up Diamond. But I had a spare aTI card here and all is good now.
sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
each gives you the special flavour ;)
eh, I got the iso's now.
probably 'cleaner' to do a fresh install
Hey you know how you said that you can use x forward'ing? I just learned that if the connect is broke, that the application dies.
* alex_joni learns there's a thing called ubuntulite
JymmmEMC: because the interface runs on the remote PC..
That's pretty significant, you should of said that.
but it's better than the alternative, of having a "zombie" emc still running in the background, and no way of pushing the estop GUI button
That's why there's a REAL ESTOP button, not some pseudo thing.
We'll see how it goes when I install on the laptop tomorrow.
I'm tired and it's 0100
* Lerneaen_Hydra pokes alex_joni
IRT that mail in the users list about encoders and index pulse, I think I'll be able to test soon, I haven't connected the encoder from the spindle on my lathe yet, but I plan to do it soon, and the work itself is very simple (just two optocouplers and finding where the sensor interfaces with the motor controller)
stop poking, I'm ticklish
Lerneaen_Hydra: do you have a STG?
uh. what's an stg?
big ISA motion control card :)
kinda old too
oh. right. nope... :( I only use parport
and that mail was only applicable to STG stuff?
that's what I was saying in it.. :)
I need to change the STG HAL driver
heh, I was just reading STG as some internal part of HAL
how's your stepper driver coming?
alex_joni: hi, well i'm still waiting for parts to arrive
alex_joni: so the actual stepper driver design will start to evolve when i've built my avr programmer. i've at least finished my lab-powersupply
alex_joni: an important step for me has been the realization that programmable devices will always outperform regular ttl-design when it comes to servos or stepper drivers
right, not sure if they are better then analog though
i can imagine that analouge servos aren't as accurate as digitally controlled
analouge servos can hardly be cnc-controlled either i believe
what do you mean by analoge?
Lerneaen_Hydra: a bunch of op-amps and such
nowadays serial communications to the servo (CAN or MODbus or whatever starts to be a standard), but the previous standard was 0/10V for the speed setting (coming from the motion controller to the servo drive)
and most of them were/still are CNC controlled :)
oh, I thought all servos were analog in that sense
Lerneaen_Hydra: not all
as long as you have a digital encoder all is well
but that wasn't what I meant.. I meant inside the driver
some use cuantitized values to work with (digital values)
others do it with analog voltages
the controller still does a DAC somewhere though
Lerneaen_Hydra: not necessarely
either real DAC or PWM
Lerneaen_Hydra: the latest are pure digital, they do PWM before the final stage
yeah, I would still call PWM analog
mor elike brb
actually I was thinking more like the geckodrive internals when I started the subject
the geckodrive is somehow digital on the outside (step dir interface), but inside (the PID and all are analog)
the G340 DC controller at least
oh, you mean like that
isn't it more difficult to tune a step/dir -> pid -> servo system?
becuase then you not only have to tune the PID part, but also the step/dir accel
i was determined to create a superior stepper driver without programmable devices. after all the gecko has no microcontroller onboard and still performs well. at this point (after years of research) i know for sure a microcontroller stepper driver will always outperform a stepper driver without any microcontrollers.
this will probably hold for any device with a complexity level in the order of a stepper or servo driver
Bo^Dick: what do you mean by "performance"?
Lerneaen_Hydra: very much the overall performance such as torque speed etc.
efficiency and reliability
even noise levels for the motor
why would microcontroller be better?
throw enough IC's at it and you can have a hardware implementation of the same program
except it would probably be faster
(extremely impractical though)
it has to do a lot with the adaptive current decay system. well of course you can for example compare two integers and save data in registers and stuff.
but when it comes to math operations and stuff i don't think ttl circuits can compare to an avr for example
in fact the smart current decay scheme i'm going to implement myself isn't featured by the geckodrive as far as i know
i don't even know about any commersial stepper driver implemented with that nicety
my stepper drivers are gonna kick ass
ooh, nice. I wasn't thinking TTL as much as fast analog CMOS
well the ATmega8515 has 16 mips
that makes it prettu useful for realtime applications
well i had to give almost 10$ for it but my dealer is rather expensive
hope you got more than one ;)
in fact it's cheaper than the corresponding pic that has only 10 mips but costs 15$ and has somewhat fewer I/O pins
* alex_joni used the Mega128 mainly
and the Mega16 .. got some really cheap :D
alex_joni: they're very nice although only 8 mips
alex_joni: forgot to say that they are very cheap as well
yes they're expensive ;)
how much did they cost at the next level, 5-10 units?
alex_joni: as long as a converter from TQFP to DIL as available
Lerneaen_Hydra: 7$ instead of 10$
Bo^Dick: are you going to OSS your board?
and sell premade ones
Lerneaen_Hydra: don't know. i'm gonna breadboard it first of course
Lerneaen_Hydra: maybe solder pad board with copper wires or something
Lerneaen_Hydra: it needs to be vigiously tested before any marketing could be of think
OSS could help with that ;);)
I'm thinking of adding a "gcode properties" screen to AXIS. It would look something like this: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/prop.html
does anybody have suggestions about what would or would not be useful to show in such a screen?
hey that sounds nice
a more accurate runtime display?
well I'm not sure how accurate the runtime display will be in practice
it depends on accel, on the blend mode and on the details of the trajectory planner
oh, something I just thought of right now. if you have softlimits then maybe there should be a wireframe cube/square showing where the limits are in relation to the current coordinate system
other than toolchange shouldn't the runtime be very exact?
and for toolchange there could be a toolchange_typ_time: parameter somewhere
consider the program that goes from (0,0,0) to (.1,0,0) and back in exact stop mode until the total distance is 1000mm (10000 moves). that'll take much longer to run than a program that makes a 100mm circle until the total distance is the same
in the former case, the run time is almost entirely determined by the machine's acceleration. in the latter case, it's determined almost entirely by the programmed feed rate, assuming a reasonable machine acceleration
err, so the current time measurement doesn't take that into account?
no, not at all
so it's only distance/feed?
I guess that's sufficient for most things though
I'm not sure how much time acceleration would add to a typical, sane milling task
probably nearly nothing
when you mill stuff you never really hear the motors accel decel
becuase it's so fast
it's probably only a few percent
cradek's mill has MAX_ACCELERATION = 30 (inch/second^2) on X and Y, so if I could remember a tiny bit of math I could figure out how long it takes to accelerate to some F-number
1/120 seconds to accelerate to F15?
physics 101 lerneaen_hydra.. think, this shouldn't be hard
no matter what I do I get 0.5S
becuase this is velocity and not distance, it is linear
so to get 30 ipm should take 1 S?
yeah yeah - plus a constant ;)
if it were distance then it would be exponential
that was always tyhe problem getting my mother to telp with erngineering equations - she was interested in the mathematical answer (a formula), and we wanted numbers
man - I need more coffee
there were constants left out all over the place, because they weren't "mathematically significant"
jepler: still there?
Anyone know of a GPL / LPGL application that is able to digitally sign PDF documents? [from the command line / php extension]
digitally sign? gpg?
Lerneaen_Hydra, something like that... but it can't sign the PDF from with it.
I don't really know..
maybe there is a gpg pdf thingy
you can put it in an email, and sign the whole thing
alex_joni, that's one way. hmm.
not exactly liking that.
was trying to automated it from the server
Lerneaen_Hydra: I'm back now
I'm giving up on my search for a PDF digital signature tagger.
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: new 'properties' window shows various information about the loaded g-code file
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/lib/python/propertywindow.py: new 'properties' window shows various information about the loaded g-code file
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/share/axis/tcl/axis.tcl: new 'properties' window shows various information about the loaded g-code file
jepler: is the properties window the same as the sample?
Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
I was thinking IRT RTnet over ethernet
is there any reason to stick to TCP/IP?
opposed to what?
rather than having some from-scratch system? sure you'd loose compatibility but then you don't need to worry about latency nearly as much
you'd probably want one tcp/ip card and one RTnet card then
Lerneaen_Hydra: no, it doesn't show quite the same stuff. axis isn't gathering some of the needed information yet.
Here's what the window looks like now: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/prop.png
can you get a time estimate also
etla: That's someting I hope to add
jepler: in XYZ bounds maybe there's a better char than "..", like "-" or the longer version of hyphen, or some special ascii symbol
Lerneaen_Hydra: good point
if you can see that symbol
how's unicode support in EMC+AXIS btw?
it depends on tk's support
one thing you can't find out is whether any particular unicode character is present in a particular font
yeah, that's something that is very irritating
so tk doesn't use some standard unicode font with all chars?
so <-> would be a great char if the font supports it, but others will see something stupid like \U2194 instead
no, Tk just uses whatever fonts the operating system has available
oh, I see
in practice, it will work fine on a modern system like ubuntu
I wonder what would be best
probably just a hyphen, though it's possible that it may be mistaken for a minus symbol
yeah, it was actually minus that I was worried about
how does <-> look?
ugh it looks bad in this font
[18:40:05] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/prop2.png
yeah, no nice
what about " to "
The lights are on, but nobody's home
that " to " looks best so far IMO
one thing that maybe should be done, the bounds numbers are not, uh, lined up
not that it really matters though
the - preceeding some of the lines offsets them one char
yeah .. they also wouldn't be lined up if one was "13" and th other was "9"
also, it's not in a fixed-width font anyway
most fonts have essentially fixed-width numerals though
* robin_sz is feeling very happy
robin_sz: why's that?
got a good order today :)
Do you guys ever use PAUSE ?
JymmmEMC: not often
jepler: does is screwup anything?
Jymmm, the Perl Authors Upload SystEm?
JymmmEMC: I don't think so, and if it does it will get fixed after it's reported
robin_sz: The PAUSE button in mini
* JymmmEMC lol @ jepler - fair enough
Well, so far so good. Haven't hooked it up to the HW yet, but looks like real mode emc isn't choking on this machine.
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: one button support: ctrl+leftbutton+motion zooms in/out
and will have more ram for it in the next couple of weeks too!
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: document ctrl+leftbutton
Just curious, is 3D_Chips.ngc in mm or inches?
it will work in either depending on how big you want it
check the G21 line to discover what your copy is set for
the copy shipped with emc2 is mm
but you can mill it just fine on an inch machine
Either way... I've seen X at 40 and Z at 30. Seems extremely hug or tiny depending
N15 ( The part is cut from a 100x100x50mm block with the zero point at the )
N20 ( center top of the block. Cutter is a 10mm ball nose. )
ah, ok. guess I just missed that.
a lot of hobbyist mills (sherline, etc) may not even have 100mm of table in "Y"
should emc display "lag" when I drag another window around?
it might slow down, yeah
it completely paused that time =)
did you do that (move windows around) while running the latency test?
the RTAI test, I'm not sure. I know I started a large download.
let me try it now...
if you're concerned about the performance when moving windows around, then do it while running the latency test
if that's just fine, then don't worry about it -- the display can get a little bit laggy but as long as the realtime stuff is solid it doesn't matter
After trying 4 different machines, I just want to make sure all is well on this one =)
I understand how you feel
making it #5
so ... last week was terrible, order book running low ... today its busy as busy and I landed a nice fat contract worth 6 figures for the year, plus 2 more looking really good too
funny how it turns around so fast
jepler: Weird... I ran RTAI Latency test per http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting,
bitchd about directory already existed. Then ran gimp, glxgears and whatever else I could think of and lat_max never went over 20000
ocl_max is 17148
ovl_max I mean
robin_sz: You're sadistic enough... Know of any material like phenolic but wihtout the toxicity aspects?
that can handle heat
800F momentarily.... I want to create templates for a hot wire cutter.
whats that in C?
phenolic, how does that behave?
doesn't say anything. I haven't done that much with plastics
Lerneaen_Hydra contians formaldehyde
oh, not tufnol then
that does too
what about cutting behavior?
tufnol cuts NICE
Lerneaen_Hydra machiens nicely, just the duust is toxic
if it's going to be warm then uh, that weave-resin composite would be good
grp pcboard material maybe?
old material, 1930's
Lerneaen_Hydra, thats tufnol
I'm glad I haven't machined in it too much! XD
whats the stuff they use oin toasters?
whats wrong with grp board as used in PCB making??????
mica, too fragile
robin_sz fiberglass base, isn't it?
it's the fibers that are a problem.... lil kids would be using them.
how thick is it going to be?
chars too easily
you could use kapton
1/32 is fine by me
if price doesn't matter
so, what exactly are you trying to do, it sounds rather high tech ...
make butterfly templates to be placed on top of EPS when being hot wire cut
butterfly, kittens, etc
just use plywood, 2mm
thats how almost ALL foam model plane wings are made ... thin plywood templates and a block of foam
if they pasue it'll it'll char cut thru that. I know that from exp =)
we're talking kids here
cut through plywood?
well, thats the least of your worries
Lerneaen_Hydra 800 F
I used 1mm alu and it worked very well
this is in school, right?
doesn't get too warm because the contact area is so small
more Boy/Girl Scouts
if you're afraid of bending then se thicker
and how do you extract the toxic fumes ?
EPS doesn't outgas toxic fumes.
unless they try to cut floral foam.
EPS? I thought this was styrofoam, no?
correct... Expanded Poly Styrene
very very toxic fumes when heated
check out the MSDS, it's not - surprisingly
when burned is another matter.
[21:12:56] <robin_sz> http://www.terragenesis.co.uk/infopages/page173.html
I love the "5 cutter limit" =)
its well known as a trigger for asthma too
EPS is an irritant, but I'm not sure on the toxicity part. at least fro the MSDS's I've read.
reduces O2, yeah I could see that.
... and the hydrogen cyanide it releases is harmless
Everything plastic release HCL.... for 20+ years =)
I just wanted something a bit more durable than wood, and non toxic pheonlic
aluminum works well
at least in my experience
Lerneaen_Hydra I dont have cooling on my machine
would the kids actually be making the templates?
for alu you can use a flower spray thingy and alcohol
robin_sz No, I would. But I dont want to die either
flower spray thingy ?
water mister trigger bottle thing
oh, I know what he was saying now
the tabltop I have is out of MDF, so no, I can't =)
mdf is not OK with alcohol?
MDF is the worlds best sponge
you ca't evne paint it where it's been cut/machined
and it swells up with alcohol?
I can't even put on 6 coats of paint withit being absorbed.
I know .. btu ive used LOTS of isopropyl on MDF basebaord with no ill effect to the base
it just evaporates afterwards
hey, I know ...
just have someone laser cut them out of 1mm steel :)
MDF is like metal that's been surface hardened. But if you hit an edge where it's been machined, it's a sponge.
That's why to can paint the surface of MDf, but not it's edges
EXCEPT for black paint.
and not even the lab at the mfg could explain that one
so, how exactly doe not being able to paint the edges of your table mean you cant spray your cutter with a bit of isopropyl alcohol?
table is a grid of 400 holes
thats nice ... and?
will leak into the holes
yes ... and?
deform the mdf
must be different to the MDF we have here
so .. thats aluminium, phenol and GRP out ...
oh and wood
Besides the fact that I dont want to machien metal - I'm in a apt.
I need coolant for soapstone too
and you intend to give these away or sell them?
I wold have thought wood was ideal to sell ... they wreck them eventually, you get to sell another
last thing you want is soemting that lasts forever :)
ask any light-bulb maker :)
if it was a bit denser than pine plywood sure. but I dont want it one-time use (like toilet paper)
1/8 wood anything is hard to come by cheaply
what about that hard dense yellow stuff they use in model planes?
nah, the play
its about 1/16th inch
and 4 layers
oh the fancy 5ply stuff
thats what Ive used before
that might work. I wonder what the resin is
no idea .. whatever it is its way less toxic than burning styrene
heh, yeah. Still need to read the MSDS though
thought about using "blue" foam?
do you have a link to the yellow stuff you're talking about? I just want to make sure we're on the same page here.
expanded polyethylene, much safer
Never played with it.
much nicer, used in building above ground
not allowed to use polystyrene above ground here anymore
even cfc free eps?
because of the fume risk in a fire
they used to use it in furniture would you beleive!
nto any more
what kind of furniture?
you are still allowed to keep it, but if you want to rent out a room, the city inspecotrs check for polystyrene and other stuff in furninture
couches or sofas as we call them
wow, never heard of eps being used that way, well expect for bean bag chairs.
caution .. toxic fumes :)
and formaldehide + 1000 others too
robin_sz you got a link for that yellow stuff? I just want to make sure we're on the same page here.
[21:44:58] <robin_sz> http://www.rediboom.com/englisch/material/holz.html
if only there was some system of interconnectoed computers containg all this information, indexed by some sort of advanced search engine ...
someone called me a racist from GNU, beause I disagreed with their argument.
[21:45:41] <A-L-P-H-A> http://pastebin.ca/131756
pretty long... it was a debate with an GNU zealot.
ugh. how I am them GNU zealots hating
Remember, I'm a racist, cause I believe that there is a place for non-free software. :)
thats pretty much it .. if you say "oh I use Linux and Windows" then you are some sort of pervert or something in a GNUZ eyes
GOD. wow. The guy tried to bite my head off.
A-L-P-H-A: Sometimes, I think you LOOK for stuff to argue about =)
kept on comparing SLAVERY to free software.
I was like, WTF?
the GNU lot, RMS et all are not quite right in the head, best left alone
GNU fanboys, make that * Fanboys, are fucked in the head.
Jymmm, but you're right... I do pick arguements.
theres lots of great FREE software, theres some pretty awesome proprietary stuff too. I use both, it works for me. the rest is their problem, not mine
but I was hoping that guy was joking around on his stance.
A-L-P-H-A, no dont pick arguments
A-L-P-H-A, no you dont pick arguments
I didn't pick this one.
not really... I just continued it
did, did, did, did!
that guy kept saying there is no choice. blah blah.
best ignored. life is WAY to short
try joining #debian and asking an ubuntu question, that rocks too
robin_sz. I'm gonna hold a gun to your head, and make you install windows, and photoshop.
robin_sz. if you don't... I'm gonna blow your head off.
photoshop .. ick
better than gimp though
robin_sz, no "real alternatives
gimp does have all the features
but the UI is way bad
robin_sz, no "real alternatives" to photoshop... it's just the king.
made to look/work like photoshop, with gimp backend
* robin_sz tries to remember the adobe thing they use down in the graphics bit
Adobe .... <think>
oh yes, on MAC.
"one button mice, for one braincell users"
Cool, vacuum bagging supplies near me =)
so .. some years ago around here ..
a tiger escaped from a zoo
so, they called the police marksman unit
and then a vet with a dart gun
what happened next?
mmm .. nope.
the vet shot the marksman
the tiger shot the marksman
the marksman shot the vet. dead.
well .. you know, its like, right, well, yeah.
easy mistake to make I guess
one is a big ornage and black striped cat, 10 feet long, the other is a two legged human, 6 feet tall. hard to tell them apart really.
marksman: "No, *I* want to shoot the tiger BLAM BLAM BLAM"
Yeah, 200 lbs -vs- 800 lbs.... they all look alike.
Please tell me they at least bitchslapped him
so, around here, if you are a hostage and the police turn up, just ask them to toss some guns in and you'lll take your chances, the LAST thing you want is them trying to rescue you!
seriously, thats is true story.
I believe it. thats why I asked if they bitchslapped him or not.
robin_sz. for real?
robin_sz. did the 'marksman' get repermanded?
better be in jail
robin_sz. fuck'n sticker on your chest, doesn't make you a real marksman...
Jymmm, that probably wouldn't happen.
shrug .. no idea
robin_sz: : Hey I know... I'll mak ethe templates out of thin magnesium sheets =)
That'll teach em not you pause in the middle of a cut!
Hmmm, this is gonna be tough. Can't locate any place locally that has the aircraft ply in full sheets.
Jymmm. What was the "marksman" story, I loged on at your "bitchslap" comment?
* robin_sz makes a job list for tomorow
gotta get the chiller for the spot welder re-gassed
Bad day to be the vet!!!
over here, the police are nto exactly proficient ...
Where is over here?
they are OK at chasing people and writing reports, but guns are not safe with them.
Sounds like what would happen in my area
moving on ...
getting some of the code together for this tube laser
the motion control language is "interesting" to say the least
gcode aitn going to do it
nah, I'm writng a spec for a descriptive language, that will probably get parsed into Gcode
All the laser engravers here use HPGL.... aka plotter
but they are 2.5d
2 and a bit axes
perfect for HPGL
this is 4 axes ... cutting on rectangular tubes, with radiussed corners
cutting on the faces is easy enough, you can describe that in gcode easily
it the cutting round the corners thats more tricky
I have the idea of 6 edges ... the 6 lines where the flat face meets the corner radius
cuts on a face are just XY gcode moved if you like,
a cut to an edge, then to the next edge cause the tube to rotate and the face containg the second edge to be selelcted
isn't it just an arc?
so you can move in XY and also rotate the tube?
as the tube rotates and the cutter goes "around" the corner, z moves too
oh, so you want the head just above the pipe no matter what angle it's at
anyone know how to xforward? or a url by chance?
Jymmm, from the box with the display ...
ssh -X name.of.box.that.hass.the.application
jepler, its complicated by I do NOT want to change the "gcode" program if the tube is say, different corner radius
batches can vary
[22:39:10] <robin_sz> http://www.altamarinc.com/images/Sq%20end%20cut%20plus.mpg
Very VERY kewl video
thats an odd machine actually, thats a 5 axis
mine will be just 4
ok, I'm connected, how would I startup emc from the remote shell?
ah, got it
its not that efficient in some ways, as it is encrypting your X cleint over the network, but it is the easiest way to do it
Benchtop real estate is at a premium here... So want to run emc on this new machine, and control it from the laptop.
[22:52:10] <robin_sz> http://www.lasercutting.co.uk/video/652semoval.avi
now .. thatys kewl
there is the $ xhost + command too
do that on the laptop (the x server)
and set the DISPLAY variable on the emc box (the X client) to point to it
then you should be able to do the same thing, but without the encryption overhead
and just remember, X is the "worng way" around
the thing with the display is the "x server"
x server == client
and the application is the client
Yeah, cleared that ambigouty up yesterday =)
you need to know that or the docs make no fscking sense at all :)
brb, need refill
robin_sz now what were you saying w/o the encryption overhead?
on you laptop
in a terminal type:
on the emc box:
whoa... I killed the connection on the laptop and it rebooted the emc box!
ok, it rebooted to the login prompt now
access control disabled: clients can connect from any host.
(on the emc box) export DISPLAY=laptop.jymms.house.com:0.0
or whatever IP or name the laptop is
then run emc
the display SHOULD opne on your laptop
it can take a bit of messing about with
cant find export, only vgexport
export is a bash command
it like MUST be there ...
liek ls and mv
ok, it did it
it tried to work =) couldn't open on laptop.
the problem will be that i won't have a crt on the emc box
thats OK, just ssh to the emc box ...
ssh -X is easiest, but has overhead
using xhost + is more fiddly, but lighter
100mbps full duplex lan.
depends on how much processor power you have free for encryption
ah, a lot more than X I hope =)
when those digits are jogging round
theres lots of data to be encrypted and decrytpred at the other end
SSH will be tunneling everything through the crypter
yeah, forgot about that.
its the control info for the display remember
in tedious detail
Error in startup script: invalid command name "image"
ok bedtime for me
assuming I can find a hot blonde ;)