I've skipped ahead and finished my file - would you like to just download it?
hi cradek, my keyboard locked up and I had to shut down my system
I'm getting the hal file open again
I've finished my file - would you like to just download it? then you'll be done.
[00:09:44] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/stepper_xyza.hal
I'm linking to the file now
ok, is this a simple copy and paste?
jepler: I'm not getting any transparency on my tool
jimfleig: yeah just copy over yours with mine
ok start up emc
you'll see that you can choose your new configuration at the top
Ok, there it is.
does it run?
if you do something like G0x0y0z0a90b90 and you don't get a following error, you're all set
just to move all 5
will following the same process with tkemc eliminate the joint errors?
if you want tkemc gui, you can just set that in the ini file
look around line 36
in the inch.ini
it says DISPLAY=axis
you want DISPLAY=tkemc
yes in inch.ini
it is working well in the tkemc gui, thank you
if you want to run real hardware with this, you'll have to do one more thing: hook up the output of the step generators to some parallel port pins
but if you're just simulating, it doesn't matter
the first machine will probably be servos
ok, so this is just for testing
correct, I just need to be able to show it works on a screen to a customer
ok, this happens to be a stepper configuration, but it doesn't matter for that
I have begun reading the manual but still have much to learn
a 5 axis servo machine is quite an undertaking for a first project with emc
I know the machines inside and out. I am a CNC Field Service Engineer, 15 years.
are A and B stacked rotary tables?
many of my field service lessons are trial by fire first time experiences
the A is a rotary table on the X axis table rotating around the X
the B is a rotation of the spindle around the Y axis (+ and - 90 degrees from top dead center or 12 o'clock)
the customer makes turbines
will you do coordinated/simultaneous moves with all the axes, or do you just use A/B for indexing?
hole drill? edm?
all five axes have to move simultaneously to cut the curve properly on the turbine blade
ok I see
5 axes mill
emc is certainly up to that task
you should carefully read the feed rate (F word) documentation in the ngc manual
because feed goes up as radius goes up
just a heads-up
I mean "apparent feed"
can this use standard kinematics?
but the gcode programmer has to understand the feeds and program accordingly
for a given feedrate the movement at the outer edge will be faster than the movement at the center
so if you program g0x0z0; g1x10a180 you'll get the spiral you want but the apparent feed goes up throughout the cut
I think this will be done in the CAM system but I will be careful to check with the customer
thanks for the heads up, so many details .....
theres a difference if the rotaries are stacked or not. is that handled by kins or post processor ( or other ) ?
what emc does by default with trivkins is exactly what the ngc spec says
so a lot depends on what the guy's cam can do
is there a text file compare utility so that an original file can be saved, a copy of the file edited, and the changes viewed when compared?
does trivkins just interpolate distances & leave the joint relations up to the gcode preparation (jimfleig: use diff )
example: sudo diff (path to file 1) (path to file 2)
tomp: for combined linear/rotary moves, the F word controls the feed in the linear axes, and the rotaries move in order to start and end together
jimfleig: don't use sudo for that
ok, dropping the sudo is the rest of the example correct?
diff oldfile newfile
actually I like to use diff -u oldfile newfile
what does the -u do?
I think the output is easier to read
the output can be in several formats
the - means the line is removed, the + means it's added
and around each change it shows a little context so you can find your place
I'll try it with the files that were just edited
redirect with diff -u file1 file2 >filediff.txt so you get the copy you wanted of the diffs
uh -u might not make sense with file output...
sure it does
i dont use it so didnt know
is there a manual to download or a book I can buy that is easy to read for a beginner with these codes listed?
I imagine there are a lot of books about learning to use Linux
also lots of help online
thank you for your help, if I can be of any help on the machine side - please ask (email email@example.com)
tomp grabs linux for dummies... it doesnt have -u switch for diff , so beware of buying books, use libraries
how does one exit properly? select name and Kick oneself off?
jimfleig: what state are you guys in?
man diff has -u, now where do i foind out what unified lines of text means
just close the window I guess
I was going to ask for help finding some big stuff, but you're a bit far away from me in NE
cradek: what kind of big stuff?
I still think I want a full-size milling machine conversion project
ok, thanks again, have a good night or whatever time of the day it is for you wherever in the world you are
type slash followed by part to exit this irc session
I bet they're sitting around unwanted in all sorts of shops
you're welcome jim
how full sized? bport?
please ask, through my website I get information on mills from all over
yeah, or maybe not quite as big
his sounds like an interesting project
I sure hope he's a fast learner
btw, thanks for taking over when I had to leave
true it sure does sound complex
not sure I tackled it the easiest way, but it worked out
remember one day you found a bport with what looked like another table on the top?
here's how they use it:
[00:46:46] <jmkasunich> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4483385&searchtable=2&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0
that looks like a short machine
a moog hydrapoint (tracer)
I mean it's not 8' tall
it says bridgeport, not moog
or is moog the maker of the tracing stuff?
moog made the generic device, added to many machines, copies whatever is under the tracer
it's hydraulic? wild
hydraulic, no cnc a-tall
hydraulic probing, dc servo cutting
the 'other' table allows you to have differnt size parts and distances between sense & cut heads
sharp CNC vertical, 10x42, "only" $3999
and another tracer...
so, can 'torch height control' do the tracing?
perfect if I only had $3999
prices seem very high
I think I recall reading somewhere that demand from China (not neccessarily for machines, sometimes just for scrap iron) is driving up prices
it sure is
oil. steel, etc
[00:52:41] <jmkasunich> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4490528&searchtable=2&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=1
bport for $699
yeah, there's scout from SHanghai all over Detroit & Chicago, grabbing old iron
hello again, it seems I inadvertantly changed my screen display so that I cannot see the names on the right hand side
it has some real weird stuff attached, probalby driving the price down... hard to say whether the crap would come off and leave a usable machine, or if they took out and threw away vital parts when the put the crap on
jimfleig: you mean on the IRC program?
which one are you using, X-Chat? (it will say so on the top bar)
I'm not sure how to bring it back because I never lost it.. but try Settings->Preferences->User-List
cradek: here's a mill for you: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4483558&searchtable=2&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=1
oh well, a restart is needed to have changes take effect, I'll wait till tomorrow to sort this one out
I tried the diff oldfile newfile and got errors
jmkasunich, A lil small for practical use dont ya think?
this is what appears: diff: /home/emc2/configs/stepper-xyza/inch.ini: No such file or directory
looks like the file is missing...
it should probably be "/home/jimfleig/emc2/configs....
try ls /home/emc2/configs/stepper-xyza/inch.ini to see if it exists
tomp: it shouldn't be (and probably isn't) in /home
jimfleig: try these commands to make sure you haven't gotten off into some odd directory:
paste the result of the "pwd" command here
(it should be a single line, starting with "/home" )
ok.. that is your home directory
pretty much everything you do should be in or below that directory
if you do "ls", you should see "emc2" among the things listed
I looked up the files with the file browser and then typed in the path that was displayed in the file browser
heh, thats the problem
the file browser uses "home" to refer to your home directory
but the full name of your home directory isn't "/home", its "/home/jimflieg"
there is no jimfleig under home in the file browser
computers are so much fun
right the browser is trying to be clever at your expense
the file browser is lying to you - its a bad habit of GUIs
they try to make things "simpler" by hiding the facts from you
we'll try again
heres a trick tho...
when the browser says "home", use "~"
"~" means "my personal home directory"
so ~/emc2/configs/stepper_xyza/inch.ini should work
use "~" within the file browser?
no, on the command line
so try ls ~/emc2/configs/stepper-xyza/inch.ini
for instance the diff command could be "diff ~/emc2/configs/stepper_xyza/inch.ini ~/emc2/configs/stepper_xyza/old.ini"
I just noticed on the top bar of the browser that jimfleig is listed when home is selected
I will try "~" in terminal
for the diff, you can save a crapload of typing by changing to the directory you want first
cd ~ (takes you to your home dir)
cd emc2 (takes you to the emc2 subdir)
cd configs (takes you to the configs subdir)
cd stepper_xyza (takes you to the dir with your specific config in it
diff inch.ini old_inch.ini (does the diff)
you can also condense all those cd commands into one: "cd ~/emc2/configs/stepper_xyza"
I thought I had left DOS type commands far behind me, better relearn some of this stuff
midnight commander doesnt lie to you
looks like norton commander
if you remember DOS, you are at a bit of an advantage compared to the kids who have been weaned on windows
I wonder if there is a GUI version of diff
many things _can_ be done the GUI way, but most of us are used to the command line way, and don't even necessarily know the other way
[01:15:06] <tomp> http://kdiff3.sourceforge.net/
but i use diff
tomp: if it isn't either already installed on his system, or available as a package, I don't want to go there
I remember there being a couple from my Mandrake days
hmm, kdiff is available as an ubuntu package
jimfleig: would you like to try out a GUI based diff? (I think its GUI... maybe I should install it and see first)
I guess not
I guess the K and Qt dependencies scared him off :P
I don't think he'd know a dependency if it landed on his head
seems like a total linux newbie (which is fine)
i cant 'sudo apt-get update' with Ubuntu 6.06 apt files, i get 'not a gzip' from debian.security, anyone else?
still running breezy, can't help
hmm, kdiff isn't bad
C question: is "foo = bar << -3;" legal? seems it should do the same as "foo = bar >> 3;"
(my copie of K&R is buried somewhere in this mess I call a desk)
"the result is undefined if the right operand is negative"
even if legal , consider your karma & the poor guy working on your code
well, I wasn't going to code a negative constant
I have a variable that maybe small positive, zero, or small negative
I guess I have to code a messy branch instead
use a switch?
case = -1
just as messy
Make a prayer to St. Vidicon of Cathode
thank you for the help with diff, I moved files to the same directory and it worked well
I found out that there is a graphical diff tool
if you are interested I can walk you thru installing it
twice now my keyboard has locked up when I have the IRC open and I execute a terminal command
no, thats really screwy
it is an old keyboard, a Dell, I'll probably try just replacing it tomorrow
how do you know it locked up?
the mouse still works but I can't type any characters in any programs
did you launch IRC from the terminal you are trying to use?
I am so green I do not understand the question
how did you start the IRC program? from the "applications" menu? (similar to the windoze "start" menu)
IRC is running in xchat
Trying cliking on one of the windows before you type?
I opened the text editor to test the keyboard and nothing
yes to which (one of the hazards of having multiple people trying to help)
also jmkasunich yes
Oops, I've been seen
when you click in the editor window (or the IRC box where you type what you want to say), do/did you get a blinking vertical line cursor?
asdfq-shop: if I understood the last few e-mails, it's not easy to get python2.4 for bdi?
ok, the blinking vertical bar cursor tells you where your keyboard input is going
if you don't see one, it might be going nowhere (you might be trying to type to a program that doesn't accept typing)
jmkasunich: no blinking cursor anywhere means no keyboard input - correct?
when its working OK, you do get the vertical bar cursor, right?
right now I have a blinking bar in my IRC window... when I click on the editor I get one there, when I click on a shell window I get a blinking box cursor
jepler: It's easy enough, but you need to get it from a debian repository - it's not on the BDI
asdfq-shop: it just so happens that 'subprocess' is only used when it's an emc2 system, and even then it's not really needed. you could try a patch like this one: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/subprocess.patch
same for me when it works
but if I click on a file browser, no bar... you can't type into the browser
that's why I opened the text editor to test
oh, the ' key
I do that all the time too
' is next to enter
too damn close to enter
yeah, the placement of the apostrophe key is clearly the worst bug in qwerty keyboards.
it doesn't help that no two enter keys are the same size
replacing the keyboard will be cheap, easy and quick
it may cure the problem
how is the graphical diff obtained?
I always shop for keyboards with the smaller enter keys - the larger 'L' shaped ones get sticky
its a program called kdiff3
I can walk you thru the process of installing it
will it run on Ubuntu?
we'll use synaptic, which is the graphical tool for finding and installing programs on ubuntu
tell me what to do
on your main system menu, there are "applications", "places", and "system" buttons
hit System->Administration->Synaptic Package Manager
it will ask you for your password, type that in
is there a way to send you a screen shot?
whats the warning?
yes, but non-trivial
W: Couldn't stat source package list http://us.archive.ubuntu.com
breezy/main Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists and more
cradek: jepler: a little help?
you have a pretty new unstall of ubuntu, right?
yes v5.10 I think
I mean recently installed... I'm running 5.10 too, but I installed it months ago
jmkasunich: I'm here, but that error doesn't ring any bells
there might have been something I had to do the first time and don't remember now
is it in the drive?
The CD's were received about 3 months ago, installed recently.
I have the CD with me
I don't normaly use the CD, I use the net, but maybe synaptic is trying to get the stuff from the CD
I don't think that's it -- it wouldn't say 'http:' if it was looking for the CD
would more of the warning message help?
Is there a line beginning with "E:"? One starting with "W" may just be a warning
jepler: my sources.list has "http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu",
his error message lacks the trailing ubuntu... think thats significant?
I can't see how his sources.list would get fubared
several lines begin with W, should I just click OK?
sure, lets see what happens
the synaptic window is open
ok, lets ignore the warning for now
theres a button labeled "reload" at the top left
click that... there will be some thrashing around (and hopefully no more warnings, but if there are, just click OK)
that will make sure that you have the latest info
(synaptic is basiclly a catalog of several thousand free packages you can download.. you want the latest list
if the dialog looked like this, then it's just a warning that will be corrected by 'refresh': http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/synaptic-warning.png
ok, the window is back
ok, click the "search" button
put "kdiff" in the box
and hit OK
it should come back with a list... mine has 2 lines, kdiff3 and tkdiff
click the box next to kdiff3, and then click "mark for installation"
go deeper or suggest 'sudo apt-get install kdiff" ?
tomp: I'm sticking with the GUI tools for now
jimfleig: the search returned nothing?
kdiff3 is in "universe"
scrolling through the files there is no kdiff in All
we can deal with that
where is universe?
choose settings > repositories
software preferences window opens
click "add", and then turn on 'Community maintained (Universe)'. click OK to dismiss both windows.
click "Yes" when it tells you "Repositories changed"
then search for kdiff again
done, waiting on computer
now the kdiff3 is displayed
then we're back to where we were 5 minutes ago: 20:59:26 <jmkasunich> click the box next to kdiff3, and then click "mark for installation"
me too, yay!
click the box next to it, click "mark for instalation"
the box should have a little arrow now
then go up and click "apply"
you will get a "Summary" window
a new window opened
Mark additional required changes?
is there a really long list?
10 files or so
how fast is your internet?
dial or dsl?
jmkasunich: it's a series of tubes ...
you got me laughing
(the reason I asked is because I already had most of that additional stuff installed,,, I didn't want to start you on a multi-hour download)
jimfleig: go ahead and "mark additional changes"
I am very happy to be DSL now
I am way out in the country and thought it would never reach us
I now have a "summary" window
I have the Synaptic Package Manager window
it should tell you how many packages will be installed, how much disk space is needed, and how much will be downladed, right?
oh, I'm one step ahead, sorry
that should get you the summary window
how many packages? hopefiully not dozens?
and hopefully not a bazilling kB to be downloaded
ok, hit apply
future packages hopefully won't be so bad
its probably downloading
I already have many of those additional requirements installed, so I only needed about 1 meg
this is going quickly
in the future if you find yourself wanting a program to do something, go into synaptic, use search, and see what you can find
I usually tell it to search in "names and descriptions" and put in a key word or two
heard any feedback on the solid modeling software?
then look thru the list that comes up, read the descriptions of each one, and see what looks interesting
applying changes is occuring
it is all done thinking
you can exit from synaptic now
03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: (attempt to) support systems without 'subprocess' (python2.3) and 'halcmd' (everything but emc2)
jmkasunich: haven't you heard this "the internet is a series of tubes" meme? Some US senator made a very confused speech about net neutrality (I think he was against it) and used that phrase.
oh, hadn't heard that
jimfleig: I was hoping that kdiff3 would now appear in the main menu, but I don't see it
you can start it from a shell though
just type "kdiff3" and hit enter
I don't see it either
i tried to follow the install of kdiff3, on Ubuntu 6.06 dapper. synaptic fails to get us.archive.ubuntu.com dapper-updates/amin Packages
you should get a big kdiff3 window, and a smaller dialog in the center with space for A, B, and C filenames
there it is
ok, click the File button for A
and pick one of the files you want to compare
03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/extensions/gcodemodule.cc: fix for bdi4 include file name change as reported by thomas
then do the same for File B
(the other file to compare)
the two files are side by side with differences, very nice
thank you again, more progress in a few hours than I accomplished in the last 3 months
no prob, feel free to come back and ask more questions
i tried to follow the install of kdiff3, on Ubuntu 6.06 dapper. synaptic fails to get us.archive.ubuntu.com dapper-updates/min Packages
if you have any machine questions I can help with, please ask (email firstname.lastname@example.org)
I won't be able to contribute on the software side for awhile but I know machines very well
thanks, night all
it fails on several repository package lists, is this normal?
phew... I forget how much we take for granted
I'm no repository expert
tomp: no, that is not normal
any suggestions please?
(if jepler hadn't noticed the universe thing I'd have been stumped with jim's problem)
tomp: you can do other stuff on the network with that machine?
yes, good q. i can but downloads of size seem to choke ( apt-get, synaptic wget... )
but no problems like that with other machines on the network?
I ran "sudo apt-get update" in my dapper machine and it completed without error
correct, this machine is fast. i'm testing cool-cnc.uiso on problem machine now...
including 'Get:11 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com
dapper-updates/main Packages [42.8kB]'
iso choked immediatly on problem machine but web pages switch quickly
sorry wrong kbd
you mean, you were trying to download the coolcnc iso with the ubuntu machine, and it failed?
what does a program like wget say when it fails?
well it choked, stopped got 33k and stayed there
cheking, it was a while ago
hmm, demons? now web access is slow on that system ... web access to find something to wget
no err this time on wget, wwill try the iso with wget tho ( big enuf )
intermittent problems are the hardest to diagnose
is your network a simple wired one, or is there anything unusual about it?
wget-ing the iso now... eta 3:46:04 5 6: going up!
if you're not using dhcp (or even if you are), is it possible two machines got the same IP address?
the network is a single dsl modem, thu this box, and ipmasquerading with others having fixed addrs
checking addrs now,
"this box" is another linux system?
if you have linux networking experience that makes the chance I'll think of something you overlooked much smaller.
only bad experience :-) bad box = 192.168.1.2 good (eth1) is 192.168.1.1
so wget runs for awhile, but then it stops showing more progress downloading the file?
it chokes, now at 2.39kbps in wget
and 20:26:39 :-)
I'm grasping at straws, but your problem sounds similar to the one described here: http://126.96.36.199/search?q=cache:3JzI1Ar76IMJ:alive.znep.com/~marcs/mtu/+path+mtu&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3&client=firefox-a
If this is happening, typical symptoms include the ability for small packets (eg. request a very small web page) to get through, but larger ones (eg. a large web page) will simply hang. This situation can be confusing to the novice administrator because they obviously have some connectivity to the host, but it just stops working for no obvious reason on certain transfers. "
I'll go look at that, this isnt emc, so I'll leave , thanks
best of luck
I hope you get things working soon
it sounds like I got a governor on my connection! thanks, g'nite
maybe he has a senator on his connection who is against net neutrality
lol that ray henry is quite a joker "We'll look with anticipation for your distribution."
damn almost forgot about you guys
you guys are window 34 =\
desktop 7 window 34 tab 9
each channel has a tab
icewm is my window manager
i know xchat
i cant stand it =(
i like irssi/screen in concept but it flickers on my machine and i never really looked into how to fix it
evening all just wondering if emc2 will tread with just a index pulse like a not to be mentioned dos program does
hm, I dont think anyone mind even if you do mention it
that should have been thread not tread
harty: you could try setting up the hal 'counter' component for 1 count-per-rev, but frankly none of us believe that threading with only an index pulse really works.
there may also be assumptions in the code that you'll get at least one count per trajectory period (10ms by default)
I saw a video so I believe that it does cut something that looks thread-like
I noticed it waits a long time before each pass
it's not going to work with emc as-is
cradek: can you run constant surface speed on a lathe with emc now?
not yet but some of the work necessary to support that is now done
just being curious :)
I dont have a lathe yet
err cnc lathe ;)
thank you, but it's near 14h00 for me
could you help me ? i have minigl.error (out of memory) ???
i have just found , i think
i need libgl1-mesa-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev
thank you, bye
huh, I wonder what he meant
thanks for the info i was just trying to get out of buying a encoder i have one i was going to use but its 12volts in and out not 5v
im a bit rusty on my electronics and dont really want to fry my pport
anonimasu: will look into the optocoupler havent used one before but its a good idea
they are the best way not to fry anything :)
anonimasu: Do you know if there is any latency in optical isolators ?
yes, small one
it's all in the spec sheet for the particular ones
anonimasu: hmm might be problematic for higher rpm
just look at the spec sheet..
what kind of rev's do you expect to be threading at?
dont realy know yet at a guess say 500rpm
it all depends on how fast i can get my machine to feed
120ms per cycle is 500rpm so I would think that would not cause problems, anonimasu ?
that sounds slow..
dallur: is that at 1 pulse per rev
500 rpm * 1024 quadrature counts / revolution = 8.5kHz, or 117 microseconds
let me see
so you want the rise- and fall-time of the optocoupler to be much smaller
the encoder i have is 1000ppr
for one im looking at
that should be enough
[12:28:31] <anonimasu> http://www.elfa.se/elfa-bin/setpage.pl?http://www.elfa.se/elfa-bin/dyndok.pl?lang=se&dok=2014791.htm
stig/falltid = rise and fall
though an inverting level-shifter (non-isolated) is also simple to build
jepler: now you have lost me got a circuit diagram?
[12:31:42] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/level-shifter.png
though now that I look at it again, there's a resistor missing on the base of the transistor
I made this to show switching a 24V signal from 5V, but it's the same to do a 5V signal from 12
anonimasu: at what rpm would you start to have trouble with a optocoupler
I have no idea really
lol thanks for the other info
is google down for you guys?
thanks, strange but google.com, and google.co.uk do not respond, must be some wierd bgp routing thing
Rugludallur: Any progress on your THC?
Eugenics: Right now im learning some C to be able to add some things to EMC :D
Eugenics: Im still waiting for a part for the Z axis on my table so I have not been able to test :(
Rugludallur: I guess you are not thinking of an HAL component!?
Eugenics: right now I want to extend vcp to add toggle functionality
Eugenics: toggle buttons that is, and while I am at it I'm going to try to make buttons switch color based on the state of the pin they control
Rugludallur: are you going to make that for Axis?
Eugenics: vcp can be used with Axis yes
Rugludallur: Ehh don't know what vcp is. But isn't Axis written in tcl?
vcp is a separate program. you can run a vcp at the same time as tkemc or axis
Eugenics: sample of VCP
axis is written in Python (8k lines), C/C++ (4k lines), and tcl (2k lines)
You counted the lines fast ;)
les_w west coast ?
goody...just got a air line mass flowmeter and some titanium sheet in the mail
georgia...closer to east coast
^Eugenics: find ... | xargs cat | wc -l doesn't take long to run
Not to be nasty or anything but I just read the most recent post on emc-users, ROFL
Example -> When I started my computer, UBUNTU install dick in the DVD drive, I can see on monitor ASUS logo.
03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/extensions/minigl.c: nvidia apparently defines glBlendColor in glext.h. let's hope all systems have that header.
if we find otherwise, let's take it back out, since nvidia operation is problematic in other ways too
03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/extensions/minigl.c: try something else for nvidia cards
yeah but for instance we want the software to work even if it's compiled on a machine with the nvidia headers
even if you can't run on it
(like the breezy packages are)
ok I bet it's fixed now
the lathe tool is still opaque.
not sure if that's good or bad
er .. actually, it now appears "behind"
03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: tweak the appearance of the shaped lathe tools
03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/tcl/axis.tcl: cut the number of distinct jog rates in half
^ why that modification?
I find a 5% step too coarse
jog, not feed override
jog is the logarithmic one
oh! jog. right
that sounds good
is the update-on-mouse-release fixed?
I don't recall this bug report
I'm not sure if it's a bug or a feature ;)
I don't recall this bug or feature report
date: 2004/12/01 14:24:33; author: jepler; state: Exp; lines: +12 -11
buttons that act on mousedown should only do so for button1.
Make the step value for feedrate 5 instead of 1.
I don't like it in any case. If I jog with the arrow keys, and simultaneusly adjust the slider, the jog speed doesn't change untill I release the button. which is not the same behavior as the jog override
Lerneaen_Hydra: that bug can't be fixed in the GUIs
s/jog/feed (the latter one)
Lerneaen_Hydra: the speed of a jog is set when it begins, and you can only change that with new NML messages
the feed is autoupdated though
now, I wonder if this "feedrate 5%" thing is because there aren't enough pixels for smaller increments (with the typical 120% maximum) or because of the way the slider used to be generally buggy when it was being dragged around...
03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/tcl/axis.tcl: make feed override go in 1tcl/axis.tcls
it jumps to 5% steps even when I have 150% max
that should be "in 1%s"
so feed and jog go via different internal transports?
that's a pity, it would have been nice to have jog autoupdate
the "feed" number can change at any time, but the "jog" number is set when the jog begins
all the more reason to use my jogwheels ;)
are feedoverride wheels working yet?
there is an analog feed override pin on the motion controller.
it takes a float input
bbl, lunchtime in north america
[17:03:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra> http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=6601
<---- it's a shame that there will always be people like this
so a feedwheel should be as easy/hard to config as a jogwheel?
Basically the article says: "hackers" use OSS systems to make botnets! it's all CVS and other OSS fault!
is there any page documenting how do do things in hal? semi-advanced things like feedwheels and the things that have to do with that?
if it's not in the pdf hal manual, it may not be documented. you can try the source, or look at the available pins and signals with halcmd
if a "feedwheel" is the thing that advances the program each time it is clicked forward, we don't have support for that yet.
oh, a "feedwheel" should change the feed override
from 0 to <max>(typically 120%)
in maybe 5% steps
running programs in SBL mode may be good to add later, as all commercial lathes I've used have that. (SBL only runs the next line when you press a button, typically program start)
anyone got a regex handy that grabs TLDs? and not the "directory/file?params"
Lerneaen_Hydra: you should be able to do that with an encoder block and halui
turns into "http://www.numatics.com"
well, FO isn't in halui yet, but SMOP
turns into "http://server.iad.liveperson.net"
another thing that may be good to add in axis that all lathe's I've run have is a display that shows how much movement is left for each axis, so if you're at x0 z0 and run g0 x10 z-1, it will start with x10 z-1, go to x5 z-.5 halfway through, and reach x0 z0 when the move is done
Lerneaen_Hydra: I don't know what SBL means
that is quite handy if you're close to something and want to measure and see if you'l hit a fixture or something
I put a note about Distance To Go in the lathe wiki page a few days ago.
I'm thinking /s/http[s]*:\/\/[^(.net)|(.com)|(.org)]*[(.net)|(.com)|(.org)]/ or something like that
SBL stands for single block line (don't ask me why) but the effect is that it only runs one line of code, then stops untill you press a button (typically program start), after which it runs the next line, after which you need to press program start, and so on and so forth
do you mean distance until the end of the move? if I program g0x3 x2.5 x2 x1.5 x1, what does it show at 2.25?
Lerneaen_Hydra: we already have that, it's called step
cradek: oh, ok. nice
Yes distance to the end of the move.
I'll go read your addition ray
A-L-P-H-4: your favorite language may already have some functions built in to do this. For instance, in Python,
('http', 'www.numatics.com', '/product/filterelements/rplcfltrelem.asp', '', '', '')
jepler... so freak'n smart.
you're so freak'n smart!
url_parse() in php
I know that regular expressions are not the answer to everything
oh, dry run is good too
maybe an addition worth considering
changes all g1/2/3 etc moves to max vel, stops all spindles, and doesn't have coolant on
typically you don't have a billet in the machine then ;)
I use soft limits to keep out of the chuck
you get a warning before the program even starts
The only problem with soft limits is if you need to through drill or bore something.
hmm, that sounds useful, but I can imagine scenarios where other things come into contact
say a movable tailstock
why is DTG important for lathes but not mills?
or a toolholder that comes into contact
I would find it usefiul for mills too
the tailstock is a real problem with emc, the Z travel can't be protected in both directions by soft limits because you can't change them when you move the tailstock without editing the ini
Never seen it on a mill. Usually used during setup to make certain the cutter clears the jaws.
with AXIS you can see the extents of the program as soon as you load it, it's a simple matter to jog to (or near) them and measure
I bet dry runs are much more important if you don't have a good preview mode
is DTG shown in addition to the normal coordinate readout, or in place of it?
Fanuc had displays that were both ways.
Could be DTG full screen or a set of three or four displays.
my siemens shows both
what are the other displays?
(seeing both seems most useful to me)
machine coordinates, relative, and one more
oh, hardware level IIRC
oh interesting, I never thought about showing relative and machine both
can be useful I suppose
if you could turn each on and off (to prevent information overload when you only need one)
oh, uh, DTG and step can be used nicely together, if you want to verify the distance of a motion or for long a certain portion is, without looking in the gcode
yes that would be a prequesite
gah borkborkbork speak
I follow you
I will have to think about DTG, it's not quite simple to do
currently the gui only knows where it is, not where it's headed
yeah, DTG is not information that is available
and in the case of a canned cycle, what is the DTG?
that's a good question (thinking of multipass threading)
canned cycles are made into simple Gcode motions, right?
threading would be mainly g33?
and some g0 and g1
AFAIR it shows the distance to the next internal step
ok good, I think that's what we would end up with the way I'm thinking about doing it
that's what sounds most useful at least
would DTR require a big hack?
it would be some work
and we'll screw up coordinate systems, tool offsets, and units for the first 10 tries
maybe something for the backburner
it's good to have on the wikipage so it's not forgotten
rel/abs display should trivial though
or rather, rel+abs
that's easier, just a gui issue
don't tell jepler but this weekend I was wishing for a dual display showing both inch and mm
* Lerneaen_Hydra prods jepler
why would you need that?
running an inch program on a metric lathe with a metric caliper in hand
what do you mean by metric lathe?
isn't all just a matter of steps/unit?
metric units for everything by default
not a big deal, you can switch the display anyway
that dual display would be an option, and not a forced thing, right? it seems that in most uses it would just take up space, though it could be useful sometimes
rayh: can you think of anything else conspicuously missing from the lathe functionality? other than CSS?
Lerneaen_Hydra: of course
I bet most people will want only one coordinate readout at a time unless doing something special
Not really. You've made great progress with the tool geometry stuff and spindle control.
cradek: I want units/rev feedrate! </nag>
DTG was one thing that I thought of while talking to a couple of lathe operators.
then again, units/rev is a prequesite for CSS ;)
in my thinking they do go together
rayh: thanks for the compliment
you can have units/rev (and I use it a lot) without CSS, but not the opposite
rayh: did I tell you my sherline is now servo cnc?
You deserve a lot more than that.
No you didn't.
cradek: lathe functionality *really* has skyrocketed!
it works very nicely
What did you do for motors, feedback
jmk gave me some motors out of his junkbox at workshop
how much better are servos?
the driver is all homemade
no spindle speed control on mine yet
the servos are very fast
SWPadnos: constant surface speed, varies the rpm to keep a constant perifrial speed
so as the radius goes down the spindle goes faster
cradek: what about surface finish?
I've only cut threads with it so far but they look good
I think my steppers give me a rough surface, partly becuase they're steppers and partly becuase of the large steps (1/72 mm)
I can see a clear difference between a straight section and a radius
I was threading 1/4-20 with Z at about 1200mm/min
HSS or carbide?
sounds like HSS speed
carbide cutting brass, it's all I have
it made a nice cut
the benefits of a school with an inexhaustable supply are great
1/72 mm doesn't sound that large to me
to me it means "half a thousandth" which is about the limit of the precision you get on machines like this
for amateurs like me that is
I guess I've been spoiled by the commercial ones ;)
although on a lathe that's doubled to .001 which is a bit large
but IRT unit/rev, wouldn't that create lots of spec-breakage?
rayh: do most of the real operators have X readout in radius or diameter?
indeed, that 2x really can mess things up
though I prefer radiu
since I learned on a manual lathe (which is always radius) that's what is natural to me
Most I've seen are diameter
but I can sure understand why you'd want diameter
ok maybe we need to think about how to handle that
the reason being that you don't have to think as much when compensating for the tool length
of course you can just set the scale
oh, wouldn't that be scale?
oh yuck, tool length is screwy then
a ten thou tool offset would be 10 thou diameter.
which is why I use radius ;)
all that converting. yuck.
well you have to keep conversions in mind either way
yes, I just find the initial work to be worth it
oh, one thing that may be nice would be basic formula support in axis
I suppose if you set your tool offsets by cutting and measuring the work, I think it will work out
in touch off for instance
it would be nice to be able to input 9.45/2
rather than having to start calc or doing to operation
(/ 9.45 2.0) like in autocad!
* Lerneaen_Hydra now cradek has a lot to do ;)
it's trivial to make any Python exp[ression be accepted in the touch off screen
but then you can write __import__("os").system("sudo rm -rf /") -- is security important?
* cradek points at jepler
jepler'll handle this one
any chance of limiting operations?
will users be pleased that they can no longer enter 009 for 9mm?
(009 is an invalid octal number)
why do we meed octal base?
009 is currently accepted as a decimal number
or worse, 030
no error, just a surprise
isn't that what it should be?
but if I make it a Python expression, then the meaning of 030 changes and 009 is not accepted
decimal that is
not so trivial anymore then
I'm not to keen on this change so far
internal python stuff being the reason?
just the many surprises it can cause
I don't see how you can't like a string input to being decimal
then again, I don't know python
it's a matter of accepting expressions
suddenly you're writing in a programming language instead of typing in a number that's handled a particular way
there are two easy choices: using float() which takes just a number written in decimal, or using eval() which takes a Python expression with all the quirks and powers of Python
but a float can be hex
* SWPadnos ducks
that's why lisp is better than python - you know the user means an expression when he types (...)
* cradek whispers "troll!"
SyntaxError: invalid token
oh yeah the users will love that one
there must be some type of work around though...
the other other thing I could do is pass g-code expressions like [9.45/2] to the interpreter
like truncate leading 0's
see, the thing is, I really don't want to do anything
and trailing 0's
I'll end up with some regular expression that will turn 090 into 9 and 1,000 into 1000 (much to the chagrin of my european users)
becuase of the risk of large bugs?
It's called the decimal system for a reason! :p
you have no idea how irritating it is to have a , on the numpad instead of a .
I think that is one of the more bizarre differences between US/europe
US/them, you mean ;)
units being different I can understand, because we're insane
aka "those other strange uns"
but the decimal POINT should be a .
not a fscking ,
and dates should be written Y-M-D
(which neither of us does)
well, at least that's how things are here
or am I mixed up again
you mean, YYYYMMDD with no punctuation
hmm, I think we may have a mix here
and if we can just get the metric clock we are all set
though YYYY-MM-DD is better
we have M/D/Y which is silly because it isn't in either order from most to least specific
sometimes I make a lousy american saying these things
eugh. I remember that from grade school in the US
as do I
/msg cradek so did we distract him from the "expression parser" debate yet?
not anymore ;)
* jepler goes to get a cup of coffee
google says: Results 1 - 5 of 5 for "cpu of coffee"
slightly random perhap
alirght, you won't have any more expressions in touch off arguments from me for a while now
what a past 3-4 weeks.... just NUTS... CANT ANYBODY else try the bleepin' parts but me...
its a 3 pronged- 3 layered - aluminum tuning fork - from forging....
dmessier, making hammers huh =)
3 tiered maybe better description...
* robin_sz is knackered
no hammers.. nose landing gear component
I think I got too much sun yesterday ... feel crap today
that'll do it robin
dmessier, same thing the way some people land ;)
dmessier, Ah, Stanley is putting tuning forks in their hammers now.
oh.. ok... naw this is called a pivot tube.... but it has a 10 " l shaped handle on the "bottom".. 2 3" lugs about 1.25" abofe that rotated by 5 deg the the lower the an upper at 3.5 from bottom..with 3 forks and 2 clevises... 1 waisted section that bites..
03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: Permit g-code expressions in touch-off
SWPadnos: what l_h was asking for earlier
hmmm - gott read back a bit then
you can type an expression like tan/2 (well, don't use that exact expression) in the "touch off" screen
maybe I should put my emc development machine back together, so I can see the touch off screen ;)
I'll put up a 'shot
[21:51:20] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/touchoff-expression.png
so you can move to a point (with a probe?) and tell emc what the position is supposed to be, now with a formula
yeah. LH wanted to be able to type '9.5/2' presumably because he has something of diameter 9.5 in his lathe..
with an edgefinder, or by cutting and measuring, say a diameter on a lathe
right. good deal
controled touch is what its called guys.. or protected touch... errors out with x error
or was it just the math???
my entire body aches ...
I am not well at all.
H2O and rest... 1st..
more like kook-a-cola here
a bit warm then?
blimey .... 36c forecast for wednesday
who knew the water torch has been around for almost 30 years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_torch
err - the inventor of the water torch?
but not you! :)
nope - I was trying to figure out how they made the pyramids at that time :)
aliens with snakes for brains.
sure, but how did *they* do it?
haven't you watched SCI/Fi in the last like 10 years?
oh... force humans as slaves to go do it.
on it's tenth season.
now with farscape action included.
I haven't really seen the show, only the movie
claudia black (OLD hag with nice body), and Ben Browder (sp?)
I don't get the SciFi channel, so I'm missing a lot
SWPadnos, should be on local channels with a season or so back.
could be, but I mostly watch PBS and DVDs
I waste my time on video games, not TV :)
I like nova... that's the only pbs show I watch... and not even regularly.
SWPadnos... get scorched earth... I'll kick your ass in it. :)
[22:09:09] <A-L-P-H-4> http://www.scorched3d.co.uk/
I've tried Legends (a couple of years ago), but I usually just play WolfET
then there's Civilization
you play wolfET?
you any good? :)
hmm... I should whoop make you my moving target in wolfET.
if I play much, I'm usually the top covert ops on hh-ops
Civ I to IV, which one(s)?
sometimes I'm best engineer as well
Mostly Freeciv these days, in CIV2 mode
I tried the loki version of Civ3, which sucked
Alpha Centauri was great as well
AC was fun.
but the tech was a little lame.
I think I'll go find civ iv.
freeciv is very good, but there are a couple of tweaks that would make it better
civ 2, wasted probably in total weeks of my life.
same with simcity 2.
that's cummulative time... as in 24hrs x 7days x XX weeks of time
there is a problem with the ruleset that makes it much better to ake tons of small cities that never grow beyond size 3 or so, rather than trying to make larger cities
right - only weeks? ;)
[22:13:42] <A-L-P-H-4> http://www.freeciv.org/index.php/Freeciv
bbiab...need a quick shower... sooo humid here. it's gross
figured out something better.
I'll hit the gym, and then shower there.
forces me to go to the gym.
plus eye candy. :)
sweaty eye candy
like the sporty (not butch) girls.
SWPadnos, are there better tiles?
those tiles look eew.
for freeciv that is
oh, they aren't that bad.
those are a special tileset. the standard ones look fine to me, but they aren't 3-d looking or anything (if that's what you like)
I think they look great
[22:24:32] <A-L-P-H-4> http://www.freeciv.org/images/1/1d/Shot1.png
that's not bad to me at all
nope - not bad at all
one thing I like (that civ didn't do way back when) is that you can change the size of the window, and the amount of the world that gets displayed changes
you see half the planet on a 1920x1200 monitor with the small tileset :)
I wonder will it span multiple monitors. :D
though that's a very big world in that screenshot
I believe it will ;)
where's the 2.1beta?
is it stable?
dunno - I haven't played in at least 6 months
it's a classic.
did you do multiplayer too?
woo hoo... wireless is workin'...
in 2000 at leasts
have to upgrade the pup... i love that distro... i thru around 8-10 on PEI...
SWPadnos, how do I attack a city?? I can't move onto that city, to attack it.
im a miner... i'll always choose to go under it...been there done that..
bullets tend to penetrate hard rock... LESS than air
so useful dmessier. :)
mine 2 feet seen 8278 feet ... from the surface...to the bottom of a hole pumb to the earth's center of 0.750" 1/4 inc over a mile and a half straight DOWN..
hello, does anyone know how to edit the EMC2 User Manual.pdf? I am beginning to read it and would like to be able to insert my own notes.
it's generated from lyx files in the documents module of cvs
so just install lyx and have at it
Is that in the Synaptic Package Manager?
Found it and am downloading. Thank you.
you can email me patches to commit to cvs, and if you want to do doc work on an ongoing basis, let me know, we'd all be very happy
I'm so green I'll probably make you laugh with my questions. What are "patches to commit to cvs"?
the lyx are "source" files just like the source to the program
cvs is the system we use to keep all our changes straight
so you'll get a cvs checkout to get the latest lyx files, and make some improvements
then you can send me just the "differences" which I'll put into cvs, then everyone will get the updates
I'm not an expert at how the documentation goes together (I think several lyx files combine to make the full user manual) but we'll figure it out
alex_joni and jmkasunich are more the doc experts
but I can help you with the cvs issues
thank you for the explanation
no problem, I hope it's a little clear
to do doc work you'll use a lot of the tools the programmers use, except you'll be working on lyx files, not C source files
the emc2 user manual is in .pdf format. Is there a .lyx version?
yes I think that big pdf is generated from several lyx files
where are the lyx files located?
pdfs aren't directly editable, they're sort of a "printed" file, purely output
in a cvs checkout, just one sec I'll get you the command to get them
cvs -d:ext:email@example.com:/cvs co -P documents
you may have to install cvs if you don't have it already
then run that at the shell
you'll get a directory called "documents" with all the source files in it
then have a look at the documents/lyx/emc2 directory
I think all the current stuff is in there
I think Master_User.lyx includes some of the other lyx files to make one master document
I have to run, I'll help you later if you get stuck
a search for cvs in Synaptic Package Manager generates a list of programs, are all needed?
no there should be a package called exactly "cvs"
got it, talk to you later
jmkasunich: I added a toggle button to vcp, would it be OK if I send you the file for review and if you are OK with it could you check it into CVS ?
any opinions on the processor speed and the memory requirements to have Ubuntu respond quicker?
I run Ubuntu on a laptop with 768 megs RAM, 1.5GHz Celeron processor, ATI video. The performance is good.
I don't use the Gnome desktop, though
well, I can see I have a way to go on the processor. I think I am at P3 800MHz.
where do you look up the specs on the system?
at the shell, "free -m" shows memory in megabytes, and "cat /proc/cpuinfo" shows some information about the CPU
there may be some nice program for the desktop that does it, but I don't know what it's called
System > Administration > Device Manager, Applications > System Tools > System Monitor
well, I have a P3 701.644 MHz with 124 total Mem
additional memory would probably improve things
that's not very much Mem, is it?
Fenn: you there ?
no, not by today's standards
the little bit I know about memory is that you can't just add it generally, it has to be matched to the system, correct?