03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/scope_disp.c: remove debug print
03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: set lowest jog speed to approximately one step/feedback every 2 seconds
03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/tcl/axis.tcl: set lowest jog speed to approximately one step/feedback every 2 seconds
O Godz, why can't I keep a connection on IRC?
Not enough burnt offerings?
I need to get out the welder, and weld together a bunch of old Volvo parts to make a 200-ft tower for an antenna - and then subscribe to the local WISP
WISP... Wireless ISP. :P
who said satellite?
why would heed a 200ft tower for a satellite dish? :P
t'ink a'boot tit.
k... time to double check my wireing, and power up the mill.
note that his address was from direcpc.com - a satellite provider
he was talking about dumping that for a WISP, I think
asdfq-shop: what type of satellite?
that is what I had. (direcpc)
SWPadnos: you need to figure out what is missing from your diet :)
I think maybe my chair is lower or something
maybe your fingers are changing length
I have that problem
emc works... and seems fast.
time to tweak,and make sure movements are specifically 1" etc.
what the heck does "linear move -9 out of range" mean??
the stock ini only has like 10 inches of movement - check your soft limits in the ini
but I tried to even move it back to 0,0,0
it gaves me that error
the limits probably are from 0 to something, so some axis thinks it has to move 0.00000000001 past that, and you get the error
0.013" backlash. :(
that's quite a bit. is there a preload adjustment on the nut?
umm - I don't know how well backlash will work with emc2 with steppers. (I have heard of issues - have not used it)
where the backlash is taken up at too fast of a rate. - don't know if that has been fixed.
I dunno anything...
I've still gotta double check everything.
at least the machine runs at speed now.
so... just need to do some fine tunning, and then I'm good
you can lead more horses to water with the carrot than with the stick.
a carrot stick
anyone here play classic games??
such as? asteroids?
I want to play people...
scorched earth *3d*!!! :D
[01:48:11] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.scorched3d.co.uk/downloads.php
go grab it... and lets play
what is it?
screens are there.
no... kinda like an FPG
except you're tanks, and not real time
you get shit loads of weapons, which you kills people with
I wonder if Wolf:ET still works on this machine
wolf3D - a much better 3D wngine, based on the came "return to castle wolfenstein"
A-L-P-H-A: I'm watching the video, but some other music is playing. does it have no audio fx ?
Yeah, I'm Direcway (direcpc)
yeah it doe
My cat could make a better internet connection
...and scratch dirt over it
A-L-P-H-A: by the way, did you end up using the ini generated by my web application?
with a slight mod.
A-L-P-H-A: what did you change? Is it something the web page could have done for you?
a setting, sec.
Jymmm: it's temporarily running at http://axis.unpy.net:8080
Jymmm: and experimental
A-L-P-H-A: I might dl this later.
jepler: ok, I'll take a quick peek...
min/max limit? is that travel?
* jepler notices that he just broke something
"oops, I bwoke it"
might I make a suggestion?
only if it's trivial to implement :-P
I mean, sure.
maybe have the user input their motor speacs, deg/step, qty steps, pulley ratio, thread pitch and have it be calculated
yeah, I've thought about it too
and BASE_PERIOD default to a SAFE value, then give em a range to try if the want something other than default.
I still dont understand it a whole lot myself
50 is a pretty safe value (lower numbers are more risky)
Right, but higher numers usually mean more/better/faster
it can be a tad confusing.
come on...finish verifyuing the damn dvd already....
jepler, right. back.
was playing that game. sorry
let me check exactly what was the problem.
something about servo something
servo perios / traj period
either traj_period needed to be set to 2 ms, or servo period to 500 us
TRAJ_PERIOD = 2000000
due to silly rounding issues
from 1million to 2million and it worked.
I'll make a spring loaded bracket to do preloading... later though.
anyone know of a free whiteboard drawing program ?
you mean shared whiteboard?
A-L-P-H-A: hm, ok
[02:21:50] <A-L-P-H-A> http://18.104.22.168/drawboard/test.html
no java on this machine
what? why not?
everyone go install java!
dman java viruses
ti's a whiteboard!
I would if this works well
[02:22:55] <Jymmm> http://www.imaginationcubed.com/LaunchPage
is this a permanent setup?
Jymmm: I've tried that one and never got it to work
but how to you add people??
cradek: ah, ok
you can't... unless you email them, or IM them.
which is bad... I just want to pass a url to them.
Jymmm: also it's stupid, it won't give you a link you can paste to irc, it has to send email for you (after you give away your friend's email address)
yeah what he says
yeah, I understand
just get JAVA! and we'll have a white board!!! :D
[02:24:10] <Jymmm> http://web.okaygo.co.uk/apps/scratchpad/flashcom/index4.htm
hiya jmk. how goes the seminar?
A-L-P-H-A: you suck
seminar is as boring as expected
hotel internet is filtered, can't do a cvs up ;-(
after the second or third sigma, I just start getting tired ... ;)
ssh is blocked??
but there's an old james bond movie on the cable ;-)
dunno the specifics
man I'd have a fit if ssh was blocked at a hotel
use a proxy
Jymmm. go get the game. lets play
everyone's invited... http://www.scorched3d.co.uk/downloads.php
A-L-P-H-A: I'm just killing time till this dvd is done verifying
hmm, just tried again and it worked
hotel nets are like that :-)
cradek, cause they aren't switches, they're hubs.
some are getting smarted.
hubs are nice because you can snoop on your neighbors
heh. so is WEP.
and WPA (if you're on the same network)
lots of hotels that don't have wires, are hooking up as wifi.
yes that's much more common than wires now
extremely inexpensive to set up
in HK. there's city wide wifi... Toronto is getting it soon.
anyone have a gigbit network?
this is wifi
I'm thinking abotu setting up a SAN box, and jsut wanted a comparision to SATA
it'll depend more on the cachnig than anything else, I think
a SAN box would have a larger cache than a set of drives on local SATA buses
LOTS of smaller files (<16KB) so it's really kiling me
I think im up to almost 2M files and it takes forever
I know where you can get some 9 gig scsi drives
because the directories are too full?
err - too large
SWPadnos: no, the sector size
with Win or Lin?
jmkasunich: you learning any new buzzwords?
Jymmm, so after verification of the DVD are you playing? or watching it?
A-L-P-H-A: neither, about to convert 4GB worht of graphics
ok. NTFS should allow ~2TB disks with single sector clusters, I think
as does ext2, I believe
SWPadnos: theyre on a 300GB ntfs partition atm, big lag
I'm thinking getting a 3WARE card
gb ethernet (yielding about 600MB/s)
well - it's likely that a well-tuned file server would speed things up, possibly even with the same disk drive(s)
SWPadnos: I was thinking of using the new box for video storage/editing too (multi purpose)
my DV camera sucks the disk space
gotta love VNC.
I'd suggest that you dedicate a machine as a file server only - with 512M to 1G ram
you know... I have a dual G4 in the closet just sitting there....
that'll give you a whopping big disk cache, which is probably a large par tof the problem
Jymmm... I smell a mac file server.
a fileserver with 1gb ram.. *sigh*
I have 1gb for it, maybe 2
that's 600 megabits/sec, right?
obviously not megabytes on gigE
yeah, I've found that you really only get about 60% on ehternet
with a small network, and jumbo frames, you can get ~90% from a linux server
even more, on some benchmarks I've seen
maybe it's time to dust off this mac
would like RAID5 though...
it definitely won't help speed
bbiab oiling my computer fan... so damn loud those things
SWPadnos: more of a cya thing
when he replaces his psu on his computer that he spilled oil in.... http://www.writeboard.com/
ok, it's done... now to do some converstion... this is gonna be fun..... NOT!
why are all these whiteboard sites so snarky?
they should follow the pastebin model of "dont pester the crap out of the user"
better... but there's still a resonating humm from something spinning.
speaking of sounds...
[02:59:43] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.ochenk.com/entry.php?id=63
check that out... I can hear all but 22000hz. So upto and including 21000hz I can hear.
use good headphones to check
ok I installed java and I get a semi-functional whiteboard thingy
but I don't know how to tell others to connect to it
dang MSI-6312 motherboards
too durable to get rid of, too lacking to use
i810, with usb 1.0, I think
Plus only two PCI slots
Was hoping a linksys USB100TX would give me temp networking for updating or ssh
no such luck
it works in usb 1.1 or usb 2.0, but not on this board
which whiteboard thing? mine?
the 22.214.171.124 address?
it's not doing anything now
i took down the java app earlier to oil my fans in my computer
is it working now, after you freshed?
ctrl-f5 to force refresh
no app at all?
sec. let me test something.
can anyone else verify?
password= cnc http://123.writeboard.com/dcba5792ebb86ac44/v/new
duh, I restarted ff and it works now
i dont really see the point of "writeboard" since you can't draw pictures?
[03:28:41] <A-L-P-H-A> http://126.96.36.199/drawboard/test.html
didnt realize it AFTER I setup the link
I can't get it to type test.
god i hate java
cradek and I both think it's useful
and you're both sadistic too
inkscape has inkboard via jabber
yes its useful, i just hate java
I didn't know inkscape had useful plugins.
that's cool then... but then you have to download inkscape (40 megs).
this is messed up... Text does work.
I can't get text to work though
i dont seem to be able to type either
java sure loves to hog the cpu
A-L-P-H-A: that's a nice experiment
I widened the screen.
fenn, even if it does hog your CPU... what are you using for anyways? :)
my computer tells me what to think
still trying to figure out why drawboard doesn't allow me to type in FF.
if java werent so hoggy it'd probably be easier to draw with
who hosts linuxcnc.org?
do a whois and find out
any particular questions about the hosting?
SWPadnos, do they support java?
I suspect they do
get them to host drawboard. :D
I'm not sure whast version(s) are available
sigh... now I have a 16" box fan sitting in front of my computer to cool it down as the temp alarm went off
just turn up the alarm temperature ;)
on that note, it's time for bed. good night guys
not till these scripts finish renaming 100K files
A-L-P-H-A, java is installed on dreamhost, but no JSP or servlets
see y ajym
see ya Jymmm
there - stupid keyboard
SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
lol yeah. blam ethe kybd
Java is fine...
this isn't a jsp.
oh,... thismaybe a servlet.
jepler_ is now known as jepler
A-L-P-H-A-3: how is the machine running?
I answered a post on the list about how to round corners....
but not sure how emc clamps axis accel...
if VECTOR accel is clamped corners should be rounded to a circle
but if individual axes only are clamped the rounding would be ?
possibly asymetric if individual axis accels are not the same?
skunkworks: machine runs... but I've gotta tweak it now... backlash is out of wack.
but gotta go to my business partners house, and chill there for the morning, have lunch, and then do a photoshot with this girl. my life is boring. ;)
les_w: cradek has said the blends are parabolic, but I'm not sure if that's proven, or just his intuition
yeah the blending algo certainly is....I'm talking about an unblended corner constrained to constant velocity with clamped accel
if vector accel magnitude was clamped it would just be centripetal accel
therefore a circular path
either there's blending or it will stop at the programmed point before accelerating on the next segment
maybe I should wait until I have a cup of coffee so I can understand what we're talkinga bout
but if individual axes only are accel and velocity clamped ....
it can't be a circle
but it would still have some kind of rounding
I think a hyperbola
could you plot a path around a corner with low accel to see how emc2 rounds it?
with g64 p0?
I think it will be hyperbolic.
your talking about differnt accels and vel for each axis - the blending will be a parabla (whatever) instead of a circle.
Why not just a bunch of small straight lines tangent to the arc/path desired? :P
I think due to constant velocity constraint it would not be a parabola
but it would be some kind of rounding
would it be jittery velocity?
or would it be constant velocity calculated by distance travelled?
projectile motion is a parabola, but with constant accel velocity is not constant
jepler: working on it
therefore with a constant velocity the shape ought to be something else
les_w: .... uh...
yeah need coffee for this one
if it's constant velocity, in a straight line, there is no acceleration. if it's constant velocity over path travelled, then acceleration could do whatever.
I guess I should just work out the math
for example, a circle... accleration could accelerated forward, or reverse. depending on where you are on the path of the circle.
if you broke it down as XYZ.
specifically a corner with constant axis accel by clamping
I have no clue what "clamping" is
must be an EMC thing...
as I've got no knowledge of what clamping is... and I've got a lowly B.Sc in math
o/~ I'm a retard baby... why don't you love me? o/~
just software making it a constant
les_w: I took the standard simulator configuration (max velocity 1.0 inch/second, acceleration 20.0 inch/second^2) and reduced the acceleration to 0.3 inch/second/second.
[12:45:37] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/blend-lowaccel-backplot.png
and halscope plots of xvel, yvel, and xyvel: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/blend-lowaccel.png
looks like a circle!!!
is that good or bad?
that means that emc must clamp to ( xmaxaccel^2 +ymaxaccel^2 + zmaxaccel^2)^0.5
pseudocode...forgot the actual variable names
so forced confinement to those specs.
If that is the case it just reduces to centripedal acceleration
which is circular motion
A check would be to run that with different accel clamps on each axis
and see if the circular corner warps
into an ellipse
les_w: you don't run different axis accels on emc1 do you?
no, it would be just a check on what emc does
just asking because on emc1 it was pretty badly broken
So when someone asks us how to automatically round corners we can tell them what will happen by trying to do that simply by reducing .ini max accel on the axes
yes that definitely rounds
In my post to the list about that I had to say the rounding "might not be exactly circular"
with different axis values
but I just don't know
even with matching axis values it's not circular
but I agree on this right angle it looks pretty circular
sure does to me
but if jepler does 45 and 135 degree corners you certainly won't see circles anymore
clamping individual axis accels (not the vector magnitude) should not be circular
but if vector magnitude is clamped even different angles would be circular
could you try that?
unfortunately I need to be doing other things right now
maybe you can get that by reducing the tooltip maxaccel (traj)
actually so do I
I'd have to think about it (and look at the code)
(either way, this is the wrong way to generate the tool path you want)
Yes I sugested that cam is the place to round corners
but still corners get rounded automatically
depending on V^2/A
emc does a good job of approximating the path to keep feed up (like the spec says) but it's bad to rely on it to give you a certain path (other than the one you programmed)
seemingly in emc
fwiw I think we're in agreement
yeah....checking to see if the radius in jeff's run is in fact v^2/a=1^2/.3= 3.33 units
oh can't tell...but it should be
he could draw that circle with a g2 and see if the path follows it
or you could, if you install emc2
you're going to love halscope
oh well I just did not want to give incorrect info on a list post
I seem to have gotten it right
cradek: what are your thoughts on the high speed plots from yesterday les's ini
ha I really ought to be running them myself.....
but I may not get to mess with emc2 until I start the factory automation
Perhaps I should not have booked up the rest of my life with consulting huh....
well - at least you may make enough money to retire ;)
SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
ha I'll never retire
but being finacially independent would be ok
then it's probably a good thing that you can keep yourself busy forthe rest of your life ;)
I'll take this money thing for as long as it lasts anyway
SWPadnos: up again and back at it. just listened to one Jacob Tau's 'tuning' lectures.
If I don't blow it on wine women and machine tools should be in pretty good shape
Roguish, how was it? (never heard of him)
Roguish did you find the video useful?
Jacob Tau is at Galil. also think Delta Tau.
ah. should be knowledgeable then ;)
he is definitely one of the best in motion control. none better. maybe some as good.
[13:52:49] <Roguish> http://www.galilmc.com/training
lots of really good stuff throughout the web site.
I've watched most all of them
yes, it is Jacob Tal.
videos are good refreshers.
yes and they have good detail. They actually show some system functions
yes they do. real applications, not just theory bs.
I think the one you watched showed the consequences of using pid with a velocity mode amp
hey, in chatzilla, how come every now and then one of your nicks changes to bold type?
Yhey mention that only PI should be used
Roguish: is it when we say your name?
(irssi does that)
i think so.
does it recognize the nicks? and bold them?
something like that (I don't use chatzilla0
Roguish, this should be bold
and this may be as well, dependiong on the chrome you're using
with a 'bong' sound
don't know what a 'chrome' is. a skin? i just use the default, what ever that is. just figured how to increase the font size so i can read it farther away.
chatzilla -> preferences -> global settings -> global tab -? Sound events
I prefer the "light" motif, myself
ah, that's better.
the hilighting feature is called "stalking" or similar. you can disable it if you like
looks good to me. thanks. amazing what programmers can do.
bonjour dmessier. comment ça va?
pas bien.... je m'ai fait mal au dos
you have a bad DOS? ;)
spelling sucks when im in pain
heh - my memory fades after these 20 years not speaking french
that might happen
anyone: what and where is there a config file for halscope?
Roguish: halscope writes one in the current directory when it exits
I think it's called ".scope.cfg"
if you start it using a menu item in AXIS, it gets put in the same directory as the .ini in use
i'm using tkemc. running halscope from /etc/emc2
/etc/emc2 isn't writable by normal users, so if you're in that directory when you run halscope it won't be able to save a .scope.cfg
guess not, jjust searched for the file.
btw we recommend making a copy of the sample configs .. directions here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CustomizingConfigsOnUbuntu
definitely working on a copy. changed to my 'home' directory to run halscope, no longer getting write error, but still cannot find the .cfg with a search
note the leading . - ".scope.cfg"
how are you searching for it?
the find file app
terminal -> ls -ad .s*
what does the leading '.' indicate?
files that start with a dot are "hidden"
it gets hidden from ls and many guis ;)
many programs don't show them by default
for instance, "ls" doesn't show them unless you specify "ls -A" or "ls -a"
ok, set file browser to show hidden, and voila!
ok, mystery solved
heh - hi there Ray (?)
downtown beijing now. darn long flight
I can imagine
what's the time there? (11:00, midnight, or 1:00 AM)
ok, so 12 hours difference from here
that's something like 18-20 hours in the air, right?
Okay so if you dug a hole through the earth you migh indeed find it.'
yep - straight down for me (except for that darned hemisphere thing ;) )
it is ray?
It is rayh
wow - quite a trip
How you doing skunk
good - someone asked about you a few days ago as you have not been on for a while. Now we know :)
I had a lot of work to do to get ready
work or pleasure?
looking for a reasonalby low cost emc box with drives and power supplies and all.'
cool.. ; )
can i place an order with you now??
I really like the van sized disoplays. for machine control.''
i trust ya
if you can find the transformers and capacitors, that would make it easier
I know I'm wok=rker
what kinda $$ you lookin' at??
motors, too. did you look at the spam that was sent to the linuxcnc webmaster?
(the one dealing woth motors, not all the pretty asian ladies ;) )
those little displays seem like theylll handle a small mill dreally well./
cant type worth a diddle tondight
my problem must be contagious :)
you said van sized displays - was there a typo in there?
the little ones that the kids watch in the back sear=t
ah - little lcd displays for DVD players in cars (or airplanes)
that could work slick...
I would say SWPadnos size is about as small as you want
I'd agree with that, for the UIs that we like to use
we would have to arrange the many things fo work all of enc with it
right - for axis anyways
if you change things so that there's only one thing on the display at a time (similar to mini, but even more drastic) then a smaller display can be OK
does it have to be so drastic??
it makes the user go through a series of steps to do a lot of things, but that's often expected in a small embedded machine
I'd think so, for a small 640x480 display (or smaller)
a lot of those screens are actually below VGA resolution
but most are at least vga compatible..
it makes it harder to use touchscreens as well, since the size of a finger doesn't scale with the display ;)
the interface isn't important, it's the number of pixels and the overall size
axis would be way too loud...
anyway to change the axis accel without shutting down emc?
unless the 3 main sections were separated into separate screens
and you chose an active section
Roguish, I don't think so - I believe the TP reads those directly from the ini (could be wrong though)
that seem to be the only place i've seen it. checked everythign in hal. oh wellllll
with an update button to update the oter 2 windows
those are used in HAL, for the PID component, but they're also used in the TP
bye ray. Have fun. (goverment probably just cut him off) ;)
they cut off his food stamps?
or "guvment cheese"
i doubt it
he's realized he's been up 30+ hrs
and on a plane for most of that
and sitting in airports for longer than that
it's really sad that the time your sitting in an airport is long than flight time
not alot of blood flow to body makes ya sleepy
hmmm - for that length of flight, I'll bet he was on airplanes longer than in airports ;)
eh fucking bush
we went to ireland on a 777 I think - still stacked in like sardenes
that plane can stack em in like cord wood
that's not too bad a flight - only ~8 hours from Chicago to London
in asia they get 500 ppl on it for short hops..
gotta get row 30 - infinite legroom, and you're staring at a flight attendant ;)
at least in the United configurations
yep - roght next to the bank of 4 lavatories and an exit row to boot
it's at the end of the coach plus section, but there's a wideexit aisle there - it's like the front row
dont try that seat in an Ambriar...,,, theres a stupid little stand up wall
i had my legs over it... ; )
of course, business or first are way more comfortable, but totally unaffordable
but then you have the responsiblity of running the emergency doors in the event of a crash ;)
better me than some other bonehead ;)
skunkworks: That's ok, I'd be the first one out it
open it and show them how to jump by being FIRST out
well, open it, wait for the inflatable ramp, *then* jump ;)
see - it's better for me to be there ;)
get your own sorry ass out of the airplane
SWPadnos if your in water - screw the inflatable ramp
but sometimes they dont come out..
open & go for me.. im NOT waiting for an inflatable
its only 25' max.
you hope =)
if the L/G are still in tack
and you are not next to a cliff =)
depends on the angle of the crash
less if shes on her belly
oh come on.. we'll be lookin' for a fat guy to have a bbq next... LOL
have you heard of the "Gimli Glider"
yes.. refresh my memory though..
[16:44:06] <SWPadnos> http://www.wadenelson.com/gimli.html
yeah.. they forgot to fuel her up..
I wonder how many parashutes it would take to land a plane saftly
cesna... 1 brs
well, a relatively small airliner - an Airbus A320 - is ~150000 pounds at takeoff ...
the big ones are closer to 300k pounds
that's a lot of downforce ;)
there in lies the catch... under shut with fuel... is a VERY bad idea...
the A380 is almost 1/2 a millin lbs
we make a centerline gear for the a340 to allow landing om inferior runways. its a HUGE butterfly
[17:00:15] <skunkworks> http://www.wadenelson.com/gimli.html
oops - wrong window
pretty freaky story, huh
a very good story.
can you imagine looking up and seeing a plane landing
heh - not really
we had a cessna land on the roof of our building at work once... we were right off the end of the runwaw at Buttonvill airport in Markham
well.. not exactly land... he stopped there... :)
LOL oh gawd.... They piled into a van with all their tools. They reportedly ran out of fuel en-route
they ran out at 26000'
read the sidenote at the bottom
some one dropped the ball there..
but to side slip a jetliner without power.. takes some NUTS
like he had a choice
precisly... emergency.... is the mother of motivators...
I'm just surprised that it's still operational after that.
how do YOU react in a panic/ emergency situation??
Me? VERY straight forward.
like homer sipmson ;)
if it only dropped the nose on the ground its a repairable aircraft
Then freak out when it's all over.
oh you panic.. i see.. like my wife.... LOL
they mention that the aircraft was repaired for ~$1-2 million
not me - jymmm ;)
not bad for a 25 million dollar aircraft
SWPadnos I'll just knock your ass out and throw you in the truck.
only $25M - I'd expect it to be closer to $80M
its equivilant to a new tranny in a newer car...
property/feelings be damned
yeah, or a new taillight
naw.. f18 is only 60 million
747 is ~$150M, and this is half the size ;)
F18s are pretty small aircraft
relative to passenger jets
40 million dollar pilot
and they put "oh shit" handles in em... disposable aircraft... go figure..
just wait till they make a plastic plane
many busines jets are already using composite tubes.. and some fuselage sections
Tube is the backbone of the airplane
sections attatch to the tube
heh - reminds me of the magic disintegrating wing spar from the Pentagon crash
or the missing 5000 gallons of fuel
and on and on and on and ...
[17:25:22] <Jymmm> http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php
been there, seen that
man - aluminum is expensive these days
SWPadnos go scrape a plane
but they're plastic ;)
that was good SWPadnos
yes I read that too
the gimli glider thing or the pentagon crash video?
good job by the pilots, I'd say
since I have had to do that
in a small plane
in a 757?
in a piper archer
something that a person could actually control without power
like - with wires and stuff ;)
yeah easily. Even slipped it just like they did
you come in hot and then slip it off when you know you have the runway made
slip it and raise the nose
hey - non-sequitur question
I have a CT transformer that I want to turn into dual-secondary
do you know where to get that strange enamel tape or the wire clips they use?
the yellow stuff?
yell-wish tape, and non-solder crimps that work on solid and stranded wire
let me check
I'm not sure even what they're called (the crimp connectors)
the one I took off was rectangular, and held 3 wires (of course)
[17:33:09] <les_w> http://www.pleo.com/tape/tape2.htm
that's the tape...nomex
that's what we used at a transformer company I had a job at long ago
ok - looks about right (hard to tell from the small photo)
the clips I don't know
no motrin all the time... i expect it though...
right - high temp and good insulation
the pentagon one is cool... makes ya think eh..
on servos - wouldn't low inertia motors be bettet than high inertia?
they should be matched to the load inertia
for best economy
"axis motors are high inertia 29 in/lb dc motors." that is one of the selling points ;)
sounds like a bad thinko on someone's part
doe they say in/lb?
I have 29 in-lb "medium inertia" motors, I think ;)
yes also ;)
les - did I ask you the inertia / torque question yet?
I think I did
ok so the writer does not know physics I guess
got a link?
this is a paper bid I got for some small cnc mills
what bridgeport size or smaller?
one is bigger with a 40 taper spindle - same style
ok typical well matched servo for that will be about 500 in oz cont/1200 peak
with rotor inertia about .2 oz in sec^2
right on target for me then, I guess
so - do you know if the result of inertia / torque is radians/sec^2 or revs/sec^2?
oops - torque/inertia
There's no law you have to inertia match, but the design is most economical if you do
normally I see it as torque/inertia...angular acceleration
like load impedance matching - 1/2 of the power goes into the load when they're matched
ok - radians. thanks
right. I figured it would be radians, since it's pure math, but wasn't sure
it is impedance matching
right, just the mechanical equivalent
of the electrical example
but usually only the inertial part of impedance is considered
you can run with impedance mismatched 5 to one or more
but it's either expensive or the motor inertia dominates over the load
getting a little rain now from alberto but need much more
hmm - I wonder if I could talk them into converting one of there existing mills to run emc
you can have some of ours
no rain for 2 weeks
basically no sun for 2 weeks here
till sprinkles now
I read it!
And i've done it too....in a piper archer.
a little different....
in a bi-plane?
* Jymmm snickers
[17:57:03] <les_w> http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/archives/000784.html
yeah... tri and land this bitch!
they are easy to land...even with the prop stopped
still in turkey?
sýppýng on a sanfrancýsco
your i comes out as a y
I could copy and paste a real ý
I get a ý
cradek: ah thats better
I also get a ý
they look lýke that over here
they do Þ=
oh you are using a computer at the cafe?
were thýs '' close to brýngýng my laptop along wýth me
but I thought havýng a half computer free week ýs a good thýng
but I thought havýng a half computer free week ýs a good thýng
thys ys veri weyrd
anonimasu: install UTF8 :D
the i's are accented y's
almost as bad as beyng yn Wales
giacus: they have some weýrd polýcy settýng on the pc
how is the food there ?
that's OK, it reminds me of the opening titles to "Holy Grail"
I eard not very good ..
anonimasu wth is "A" San Francisco?
Jymmm: the only way would probably be to snag the passwd fýle and l00pht ýt.. but I kýnd of lack motývatýon to bother
too bad we can't get the people in charge of the computers sacked ;)
Jymmm: a drýnk alcoholç.ç
cant remember whats ýn ýt ýt tastes nýce
anonimasu oh I dont care, just looks funny
sorry Id try to fýx ýt but ýtd be a mess
no biggy... now that we know y is i, it's all good
next destination for me would be Thailand
I'd LOVE to hit Thailand, but the humidity would kill me big time!
cuba would be a nýce place
thaýland ýs nýce too
so ýs výetnam
yeah the food ýs good
did you rent a car ? how you are moving
I knew someone once that has never been in a plane in his life, learned to fly from reading books, stole a plane from San Fernando, flew to SFO, and did a perfect landing to the awaiting cops.
boat ? cool :D
we are stayýng ýn a lýttle place called turunc
we arent movýng around too much
Jymmm: using a flight simulator ?
anonimasu: nice, enjoy
giacus: No, just by reading books
well pratice should be totally different ..
giacus this wasn't practice, he had NEVER EVER been in any kind of plane in his life.
strange guy too
hm I wonder ýf thats sýmýlýar
flyýng ýn a flýghtsým to real flyýng
but I have to give the guy credit to learn from reading and make a perfect landing
anonimasu: so, you could go to fish a bit there around
I love that sport
not really just trýp boats here
and between marmarýs
thýs výllage ýs really small
oh .. :)
ýts a 45mýn boatrýde here
there one every hour
is it a small island ?
no a small výllage
separated by mountaýns
lots of englýsh pople around here
anonimasu but giacus only speaks ancient chinese
but hardly any swedýsh people
Jymmm: haha really
I know ýve seen that on occasýon
I talk as a monkey
ýts been pretty raýny today
that's my protocol
hopýng for better weather tomorrow
anonimasu: got the rain ?
at home ýts 30c
here clouds yestarday, good sun today
the weather should be moving from west to east ..
you should get the sun soon :P
hehe I hope so
to be honest, also here is a strange season
we leave at frýday mornýng
not very hot as the years of the past
so at thursday we go to marmarýs
ýt sucks ýts a large cýty wýth lots of tourýsts
I'd like to visit marocco, but not at this time
hm restless thre?
it could be very cheap right now
restless is naples, where k4st lives
and around there
hm thats bad
500 km away
shot some photo ! :D
weve been here 5 týmes before so there ýsnt much new
just to slack
are you there for work ?
Im here for restýng
and arent tired to came back to the same place ?
I'd be :(
not really thre ýsnt much to do except lýe on the beach
err we have been around lots
lots of dýff places but thýs one ýs close enough to leave for a week and o nothýng at all
giacus: any video updates?
skunkworks: sorry, nope
giacus: ýf you have a chance go to ýndýa someday
thats ok ;)
thats a cool trýp
working on blender right now with penguins and 3D objects
anonimasu: I'll consider it
though flyýng there and such ýs pretty expensýve but well worth ýt
wanna know a weird thing ?
i'm very near to the greece
as geographical position
I never seen the greece :(
few months ago I was thinking to Egypt
im very near the US... but only go if i HAVE to...
changed idea ..
but id would be cooool
hm egypt was ok
anna is scared
greece ýs nýce too a být expnsýve
my wife liked/disliked egypt.. the smells apparently
dmessier: seems lýke your wýfe havent been around that much
it was 1980 or so...
mýght explaýn ýt
thýs place has moved decades ýn 10 years or so
went with her folks... dad was offered jewelry sores for her... green eyed straberry blond in the desert...
they wanted to trade my ex for camels =)
I should have agreedç
burnt to a crisp
quýte frankly they were just kýddýng
it's hard to take you seriously with all your ç and ý
not these guys... she is very easy on the eyes... ; ) and im keeping her
jepler: sorry =)
hehe mýne broke up after the fýrst week there..
now I regret the relatýonshýp at all.
dýdnt expect her to drag me to egypt and suddenly end ýt all
worst thýng so far ýn my lýfe
ah well crap happensçç
she went to greece .. just as we met... 3wks... lasted 2.. come home with a buddy of mine who's g/f was expectin'
find a nice egyptian lady... ; )
your wýfe or your gf?
or your ex
my pre wife
ah atleast you werent stuck there for 8 days wýth a cold sýlence
or were you?
or dýd she leave thre wýth your frýend?
no i went water siing in soo st. marie...
no she didtnt know i knew hom
I dont thýnk Ive regretted anythýng as much
I shouldnt have left for egpyt =)
I have ZERO desire to go to egypt...
but what can you do when the sky ýs blue and clear and suddenly ýt starts to raýn sulfur..
when they showed at the airpor i was surprised to see them together... and hear their story of getteing off the boat and the to an airport
Love to goto N/S India though - for the food of course =)
I dont know that abbrevýatýon
North South, totally different foods
i cant stomach too much of that..
never been to the north the vacatýons goýng there were way too expensýve
or was ýt south
Lots of Indian ppl here in Silicon Valley, learned a lot about the various foods. still can't order crap from a menu though =)
we went to goa both týmes we wer there
i wanna got napal... possibly make base camp
so it's "all you can eat" places and try a bit of everything.
I need to jet..
Not the BEST way to enjoy Indian food though.
catch you all later
and possýbly ýn a better charset
wouldnt it be cool to have a v22
Jymmm: I was very hungry for 20 days there :/
were used to it now, change and we wont understnad you
or a ba609
giacus you dont like curry?
Jymmm: the very bad thing I tried was a ciurro
hes messed me UP
churro? You mean the pastry covered with cinnamon sugar?
It's just fried dough
with a very strange colour, violet
like a donut
doens't sound like a "churo" to me
it was looking like a spanish snack
The ones here are light brown, due to the cinnamon
I was to hollywood
[18:49:45] <Jymmm> http://www.churros.com/churros.htm
found an italian restaurant after 12 days ..
giacus where was this? India?
in S. Monica, but spaghetti was very bad :(
giacus sounds like food poisoning
bah... I got to take some photos, but I need to setup lighting. I need a studio =(
ah ordering some stuff from edmund opticl...expensive
Jymmm: to be honest, I never found a food better than italian food
hey I need more dippy birds!!
giacus Thai food is awesome
that's the only good thing remain here around ..
we lost cars industry, lost all ..
they have a new one
also lost soccer lately
but not food !
les_w how many do you have now?
I also like france food
[18:55:57] <les_w> http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3081521
I have none...last one got broken
That's a fancy one
[18:57:58] <giacus> http://www.muranonet.com/
I needs some PLASTIC fiber optic cable
I seen something of nice in venice
aka... the cheap stuff
bought a tropical fish years ago
when was with my first wife
it exploded :D
les_w: was talking about holydays
are you thinking to came in EU or not ?
well, If I can buy UVC optical flats...I guess I can buy an "upscale" dippy bird for $69.
not for now I suppose.. you seems very busy
les_w: Just place outside your reach =)
I would like to come over at some point yes
actually I would like to live there part of the time
Let's see how much money I make first heh
you should have some friend in travels companies
Jymmm: got tomatoes of 10 cm here
* Jymmm dont like raw tomatoes
no tomatoes yet but lots of plants
woo I love tomatoes
jymm try yellow ones
I have about 20 plants
but from my garden
no ogm here around :)
I am growing pure organic this year
that's really good
The only thing I put on them is bordeaux mixture
otherwise they will all die
yeah, my mother also use something like that
I say "organic" because it really isn't
a mixture of copper sulfate pentahydrate, calcium hydroxide, and water
les_w: dunno, I'm not expert with it
I read up on it
for some reason it is approved for certified organic foods here
must use something or all tomatos and potatos are killed by late blight
but there are gardens where a tomatoes comes up in few days O_O
that's not so natural
mine are growing fast
how much ?
how many time*
I would check them but there is rain now from tropical storm alberto now
oh, first ripe tomatoes in about 60 days from planting seeds
dinner time for me, be back soon ..
I found a place that mfg's plastic fiber cable, but sells in bulk and doens't have like 2' samples.
20'/each sample kit for $50
les_w: reading the logs... it's not a circular blend
was typing fenn
looks pretty circular yo me
in jeff's run
if vector accel is clamped by emc it should be a circle
If individual axis accel is clamped I think it would not be circular
it'probably s circular when you have the same F in both segments, and the corner is symmetric about a 45 degree angle
I ought to work out the math
if I remember correctly, all axes are clamped to the highest fraction of the requested feedrate that can be attained by all axes
so if X accel/vel limits the move, all axes get clamped to the XMax/requestedX fraction
but I think even at 45 with symmetry individual axis clamping would result in non circular motion
all axes are clamped to the lowest common denominator
because...lets say for a 90 degree corner....
(err - metaphorically, not mathemnatically ;) )
half way around the arc VECTOR accel could be 1.414 times in magnitude the axis clamp value, no?
yes, it can be unless the TRAJ max_accel is set lower
the max vel and accel *along the vector* is calculated, that acc/vel/vector is sent into the planner
the vectors are planned individually (accel, cruise, decel) and the decel/accel of adjacent vectors overlap
I suspect what it's doing will result in circular corners for any angle
as long as axis accels are the same
max accels I mean
I suspect that the total delta V needs to be the same as well, for circular corners
it should be ellipsoid if the deltaV or max accels are different
because the accel ramps are linear, I think that particular blend follows this curve from t=0 to t=1: x(t) = k*(1-t)^2, y(t) = k*t^2
yes linear ramping of axis accels with axes 90 degrees out of phase will be a circle
if velocity is held constant
velocity isn't constant, though. In the graph, the XYvel is a kind of curve too
wait velocity is always a vector haha
dx ramps down, dy ramps up, and the magnitude of the velocity is sqrt(dx*dx + dy*dy)
velocity along the arc is not constant?
so yeah, it dips down, probably to 1/sqrt(2) or something
the purple line in http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/blend-lowaccel.png
it'll depend on the max accels, I think
[20:06:37] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/blends2.png
ah but that is time parametrized
I'm pretty sure the acute one isn't circular
it very well may not be.....
But if the path was constant velocity with linear accel/time ramps It should be a circle
kinda depends on how emc clamps
I told you
sorry, not being difficult, I just figured if you want to talk about the algorithm I should explain how it works
well this is just to answer that list question about how to easily round corners....my answer was to just turn down accel, but the cam program would be a better place to control it.
I agree totally
but does he really want round corners, or does he want to keep the feed up?
I think the question was directed at issues with cutter comp,since th gu mentioned "needing to round the corners for emc2", which makes no sense
s/th gu/the guy/
let me check his post...
I guess I didn't even read it...
"Most customers supply drawings of parts without actually drawing the rounded corners EMC2 requires as this rounding is largely negligible."
afaik, emc2 doesn't give a damn about rounding corners ;)
yes he's asking about inside cutter comp on acute corners
which is silly, because elsewhere, he mentions the 30 micron "cutter diameter"
that would give nice sharp corners
he says "making the rounded corners emc requires"
inside or out
but the part would be 60u undersized
he's talkinga bout requiring arcs at the corners if you're cutting inside the corner with comp
... I think
not much comp with a 30 micron beam heh
he should use "offset" in autocad
that's what I do instead of using cutter comp
I suppose if you're cutting 200 micron parts, it could be an issue ;)
well most cam has cut outside, cut inside, and cut centerline
I guess the part is 30u undersized, not 60u
cradek: me also. Never had cutter comp
someday I'll learn to use it
I wanted to figure out how to use it for cutting out eagle-generated circuit boards
I use it, but always in cam.
so I can use the thin line instead of the width-of-end-mill line at the board edge
but I couldn't figure out the entering cut
the ngc manual shows a simple approach - coming into a corner of the cut from outside
argh, I forget how to do the "chain rule" to calculate derivatives
man, I used to know calculus
you can use a collinear move as the lead-in, I think
do loop on outside corners...
this curve (the emc2 blend) must be a hyperbola, because it's order-2, and it's not an ellipse or a parabola
or else I'm mistaken and it is a parabola
hmm axis's low sampling rate seems to be getting in the way: http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/emc/screenshots/blend-lowaccel-backplot-g3.png
trying to do dy/dx from dy/dt and dx/dt etc?
yeah, something like that
[20:30:14] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/blend3.png
this is the blend path (red) and a matching arc (cyan)
thats quite a bit more difference
I think the blend function is y = sqrt(1-x)-1)**2
in this case
my gnuplot of circle vs this looks like cradek's plot of circle vs blend
[20:32:02] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/gnuplot.png
very much so
nice work jepler
looks hyperbolic I agree
but what kind of curve is y = (sqrt(1-x)-1)**2 ?
* cradek looks at les
maybe it's not a conic section at all, with the sqrts in there
might not be
one time I tried to simplify it I got y - sqrt(4y) + 1
then I got confused
let me check
well, I was confused all along
google is pretty useless for equations
well for a circle x^2+ y^2=r so
so not a circle
let me see
mathematicians clearly have too much free time: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ConwaysConstant.html
I think that's been clear since the days of Copernicus ;)
and not a hyperbola
jepler how did you come up with this equation?
I'm still hoping it's a parabola
fenn: dx ramps down from 1 to 0 while dy ramps up from 0 to 1. integrate to get x = (1-t)^2 y = t^2 (I think). solve for x = f(y)
or y=f(x) even?
one or the other
whichever is easier
I got y= 2-x-2sqrt(1-x)
they look equivalent on gnuplot
rotate it 45 degrees
it's kinda a circle pulled with a parabola
and solve for y' = f(x')
I cannot get it to take the form of a circle, parabola, or hyperbola
in fact I don't think it is a conic.
if it were a hyperbola and a smooth path the blend would take infinite time
because the hyperbola is asymtotically approaching two lines
it might be easier to analyze (though possibly harder to generalize) if the path involves accel in only one direction, such as when milling a '>' shape
theoretically, Y vel should remain constant for that path
SWPadnos: that is messed up by kins
though it would need to increase if constant velocity is needed, since X would be slowing down
alex_joni, right - that mess-up is what peple are analyzing now, I think ;)
ie, what form is the interpolation
constant accel in one axis with constant velocity in another is classic frictionless projectile motion
SWPadnos: afaik interpolation is done in world view
but limited by mechanics in the form of accel and vel limits
isn't this (the 90 degree turn in g0x0y0z0 / g1x1 / g1y1) a constant acceleration of x'' = -k, y'' = k?
ought to be
the problem is that none of us can manipulate it into being a parabola
I think the key is to rotate it 45 degrees and then solve for y' = f(x') .. then the focus and vertex of the parabola will be along the line x'=b or y'=b (depending on the direction of rotation) and everything will turn out nicely
not in spatial coordinates anyway
trapezoidal blends are always parabolic in TIME
for one axis
the position that is
gee this is weird.. i must be doing something wrong - there's no blending at all when i rotate it 45 degrees (with g64p0 on)
you mean no arc?
it stops at the corner
with the same max accels?
that can't be right
you mean it makes a sharp corner?
yeah velocity at the corner would have to be zero
I think it has a filter to go to exact stop mode for angles over 90 degrees
would someone else run this code and look at it?:
shouldn't it not blend in G64P0 mode, or am I totally screwed up?
or maybe there's a third option
g64p0 is for compatability with old-style g64
p0 lets it blend as much as it can
no tolerance, just keep up the speed
but still constant speed
g64 is the same as g64p0?
fenn: as SWPadnos said, you probablycan keep constant when you rotate it to 45 degs
it still does it with p.05
and the accel is something like 0.5?
fenn: I suspect it will for any value
stock axis.ini - accell is 20
ok - you need low accel to test this out, I think
the idea is that it will only cut corners if it NEEDS to
jeff used .3 i think
why does it blend one corner and not the other?
he had feed override at 20%
no matter how far i zoom in it's still a sharp corner - is this a sampling artifact or something?
numerical truncation could make the exact stop 90 degree filter go with some orientations
due to the math library using maclauren series to calculate trig functions
so make the interim point x0.4y0.5
les_w, the math library very likely uses the intrinsic trig functions - is that series used in the coprocessor?
most things I have seen use a taylor's series expanded about zero....
yeah I would imagine that is in the coprocessor
they both blend in 2.0.1
looked it up...yeah uses taylor's series
[21:24:26] <fenn> http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/emc/screenshots/blend-lowaccel-backplot2.png
ouch - worked in head as of last friday
on the lower right you can see it does a tiny little bit of blending (the yellow dot)
that is with accel at 0.3, shouldn't it be changing the radius of the blend also when i change the accel?
i'm changing the trajectory accel btw
or min radius anyway
so your traj accel is lower than your individual axis accels?
damn I need new glasses. a 90 degree angle does not look like 90...and changes if I tilt my head!
there used to be funny issues with that - what happens if you lower the individual axises accels to match?
btw what is the command to update from csv?
cvs update -dP, in the directory of the checkout
what is the difference between a red blend and a yellow blend?
hey everyone... missed me?
don't be shy... Iknwo you all did.
enjoy your photo shoot? :)
fenn: big difference between 1st case & second
fenn: 1st case you have one axis moving, the second is halted
the second case, you have one axis which will always be at some speed
and the second axis will accel/decel and reverse
it was cloudy... so we didn't do it.
we'll probably do it tomorrow.
fenn: head breaks it
so in the second case it's easier to stay close to the point
I get the exact same thing
it was just this 28 yr old model... really attractive one, but not super model quality... still attractive. :D
ah ! bad time, bad days sic
was working as of friday - now it doesn't - guessing a jepler issue?
fenn: what is that?
thats emc not blending.. its actually g64p.05 in that picture
no blend past 90 degrees right?
les_w: no, that's not true
cradek: what's the difference between red and yellow?
don't understand what i'm seeing...
I don't either
les_w: you're not the only one
cradek: the 90 degree lines get blended
I don't know why there's yellow, that's supposed to be just jogs
[21:37:23] <SkunkworksD> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/blend.png
the ones where it goes to .9,-.1 it doesn't blend
cradek: read the gcode at the bottom
SkunkworksD: how's dapper working?
good - no issues
but there are 3 angles on the screen
the gcode only draws two
hmmm - do you get identical blends if you go from (0,0) -> (1,0) -> (1,1) -> (1,0) -> (0,0)
that's left over from a backplot of the previous run - sorry
ie, the original right angle forward and backward
so the one that's not blended is the LAST g1 move
jepler knows about that problem
a little close to visually call since both are close to 90 degrees
les_w: 90 degrees has nothing to do with it
fenn: put anothe g0x0y0z0 at the end
you think it's just orientation or something?
no, like I've said twice now, it's a bug where the last G1 isn't blended in
les_w: a more simple bug involving the last g1 in the file
oh .. we got the expert wait ..
ah he's right
it does blend with another move afterwards
fenn: of course he is.. he proobably wrote it
if you end on a g0 it'll always be right
K4ts: secondo te quale è la differenza perchè una riga è gialla e una è rossa qui :http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/emc/screenshots/blend-lowaccel-backplot3.png
fenn: the bug I mean :P
dmessier even here?
if your program ends with a g1 it may not blend
* A-L-P-H-A pokes K4ts...
hey... I saw a baby bird, that wasn't scared of me... till I almost poked it.
I was like 1 foot away from it, knelt down... almost wanted to catch it... but then realized about birdflu... and decided against it.
fenn: then liste: K4ts sayd: the red green line mean good, The yellow line is bad, but not so much, the red line should be very bad.
should have passed it an aspirine
see the logs on google
ok well it rounds corners...it's not a circle or hyperbola....does not got to exact stop at any angle threshold....right?
so we don't know what shape it is? :-)
les_w: unless you tell it to
sure you can tell it to, full control
well, it's a curve
cradek: I'dcall it a spline
not a conic section seemingly
but symmetrical perhaps
not a traditional spline, but determined by the 2 blended lines & the distance
possibly not constant vector velocity during the arc....right?
no did you see jeff's plot of vector velocity?
yeah saw it.
yeah tangential velocity
um, this blending bug could be really bad
clearly not constant
fenn: I think jepler will fix it, but I bet it's standard to end a program with g0 anyway
well, not a major problem....but constant speed path is always better
oops nevermind i had a 0 and 1 mixed up
wonder what matter the interpreter with Axis ..
is it separated ?
les_w: you get constant speed with colinear, stop with full reversals, something in between for everything else
nevermind the nevermind - i had it right, its just acting really weird is all
I don't see how you could get constant speed on most corners without a lot of undesirable rounding.
for contouring, I bet we're pretty close to constant tangential speed now
arg, I've got to run about a half hour ago, bye all
red hot chili peppers
and you will get a lot of rounding with constant speed
V^2/A in general
unreliable chinese networks
can get big at high speed
(Read error: 104 (Connection reset by government))
fenn: government doesn't reset the connections :)
they only listen
just censure it
Which is why we must have accel capabilities the square of the speed to get equal radius
listen = spy
les_w: unless you put g64 Pxx in there
then it will slow down just enough to make that
I'm just talking in general
A hight speed machine is little use without high accel capabilities
les_w: like a 1-horse wagon that eventually reaches 100mph
In general if you want the same path capability and double the speed, you need to quadruple the accel
Which explains my 5.6 kva of servos!
another way is to cut mass
ok.. off to bed
let's gooo.. time's a wastin'
hi skunkworks what are you doing with your kt's lately
have to leave now talk to you later
bonne soir a toi
Hi guys... rebooted after a major os update
not that bad.... will update from breezy to dapper soon...
ah, Ubuntu user :)
wow great K4ts
K4ts: shot some photo this afternoon: http://giacus.altervista.org/GiugnoinFesta/dsc_1234.html
a robot used by italian police
[22:41:01] <giacus> http://giacus.altervista.org/GiugnoinFesta/dsc_1246.html
she learned to upload photos on the web :P
[22:42:31] <giacus> http://giacus.altervista.org/GiugnoinFesta/dsc_1244.html
[22:43:53] <K4ts> http://giacus.altervista.org/GiugnoinFesta/dsc_1242.html
[22:44:48] <K4ts> http://giacus.altervista.org/GiugnoinFesta/dsc_1338.html
giacus is Bassolino wow
[22:45:43] <K4ts> http://giacus.altervista.org/GiugnoinFesta/dsc_1342.html
Tony Tammaro and Emanuele!
K4ts: was an anti-terroristic simulation ?
[22:51:10] <K4ts> http://giacus.altervista.org/GiugnoinFesta/dsc_1265.html
oh .. you don't know who is tony tammaro
he's an artist .. comedian
a blues by tony : http:/www.giacus.org/files/t1.mp3
should be nice to understand the italian for that :P
hey dmessier :)
it was a man who give the cellphone to another ..
giacus: what is the dead guy thing all about?
fenn: talking about kats photos ?
just a simulation
k4ts shot the photos in naples this afternoon
I think it was a demontration how scientific police work
there was a fest too http://giacus.altervista.org/Giugno/index.html
this is Emanuele the son of anna http://giacus.altervista.org/Giugno/dsc_1277.jpg
the other goes with the father yestarday ..
Fathers day is the 18th!
[23:36:44] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=fathers+day+2006&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
that's a good shot... http://giacus.altervista.org/Giugno/dsc_1324.html
just needs more umphm.
father's day here is in 19 march
everyone go get this game. http://www.scorched3d.co.uk/downloads.php
was talking with k4ts nephed, the girlfriend leave him yestarday after 12 years
togheter since 14 years old
12 years? and he never married her?
23 years old
26... that's like same age as me...
12 years of togetheredness, since 14... = 26!
she's a bit more young
it's always the same story
old damned story
after 10 years togheter start the crisis