I have a non emc question - now that im useing ubuntu I don't know how to FTP anymore - i used to use filezilla on XP - or I would use IE and the login as option - mozzila wil browse to the the ftp site but I can't login, don't know how... any ideas
usually most ftp clients accept addresses as email@example.com and then ask for a password
nice - awsome - it worked -
but it doesn't let me delete stuff or drag new files into directories. I found this but don't understand it much - http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-104082.htm
i'll figure it out - see yall
* A-L-P-H-A Simone says to ChanServ - "Change me back to the last topic"
A-L-P-H-A has changed the topic to: ...
ChanServ has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Enhanced Machine Control forum - a linux based CNC control. | EMC2.0.0 is out .. | Home: www.linuxcnc.org | wiki up @ wiki.linuxcnc.org | EMC usage map: www.frappr.com/emc2/
Simon says I've compiled too much tonight :(
alex_joni, where's the automake file for EMC2??? :D
emc2 is the easy part
what's the hard part?
* jepler spits on automake
A-L-P-H-A: kernel, rtai & debs
new packages for dapper
jepler: did automake upset you?
alex_joni: automake caters to broken (e.g., non-gnu) makes, and at the same time encourages the terrible "recursive" style.
against my better judgement I'm downloading dapper
bittorrent sure works great for fresh releases
cradek: I've heard stories that dist-upgrade should work perfectly
maybe with the stock kernel?
I don't want to mess up my working system - I'll use a new disk, I have lots of them now
right.. that's a sane decision :D
anybody know why the commit messages are being held for approval?
jmkasunich: no, but I think I allowed for a temp fix
according to the site news they are messing with the mailing lists
s/messing with/messing up/
the reason I think was that somehow they thought the number of recipients was too grat
and we had a max_nr of 1
maybe the new list expands the whole list when doing the calculations?
not sure if I'm making any sense at 4:30 am
why are you awake?
building packages for dapper
you're our hero
don't really want to stop now .. been doing it for too long now
got for it - the all-nighter
that's common :)
(I did one of those at the workshop, getting the toolchanger to run)
argh.. another fail from rtai
its the first time anybody saw me there in the morning ;-)
darn.. always thought the kernel is harder to do than rtai
they're both terrible
the kernel worked on the 3rd attempt.. but rtai is up to #15 or so
if anybody DARES to say emc2 is hard to compile.. I'll smack him silly with make-kpkg
but you can go first
ok, you can take dh_make :)
I just recently closed a bugreport/feature request from somebody who wanted emc RPMs for FC
did they send a spec?
I said (in not the exact words) "when you have the RT patched kernel for FC, then we'll think about RPMs"
that part probably would not be too hard, but I've made custom kernel rpms and it's harder still than debian
dpkg -i rtai-modules-2.6.15-magma_3.3-1+aj2_i386.deb
wonder if it works :-?
so should I install dapper now?
you should use dpkg -c to compare the file lists
look for obvious things missing
it's easy to miss whole bunches of files
jmkasunich: I thought you found needle thrust bearings on mcmaster for 1/4" shafts - I can only find smallest 1/2
RTAI Testsuite - KERNEL latency (all data in nanoseconds)
RTH| lat min| ovl min| lat avg| lat max| ovl max| overruns
RTD| -1333| -1333| -275| 2830| 2830| 0
RTD| -1374| -1374| -291| 2885| 2885| 0
RTD| -1351| -1374| -292| 2775| 2885| 0
I thought about using a timken on the front and a needle thrust on the back, but the timken are also too big
ok, emc2 next :)
strange, now I can't find them either
they have 6 and 7mm, but they're $9.47 instead of a couple bucks
the sucky part is I know there are some small ones around here somewhere, it's just impossible to know where
they have the ball thrust bearings that small, but two of those would add up to too much thickness
ok, I was just about to point those out
there are the $9 ones and cheap ones
the cheap ones are 0.193 thick, thats too much?
too much if I want two (front and back) plus something springy
not sure what I want
on one side, you have a knob, right?
that side could use a larger diameter bearing I think
make: Failed to remake makefile `Makefile'.
that's probably the dep generating rule
[01:39:50] <jmkasunich> http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2001_retired_files/Worm02.jpg
ifeq ($(DEPSTYLE),gcc3) ?
cradek: pic of a bearing significantly larger than the shaft
jmkasunich: I see
dunno if you could do something like that
I just got a purchase order to make two more of those jigs
alex_joni: version>2 gives DEPSTYLE=gcc3
comes under the heading of "mixed feelings"
you'll be busy again
yeah I understand that
nice cash for the jigs, but lots of work
the problem with non-cnc is the subsequent parts don't get much easier
those things wouldn't benefit much from CNC anyway
lots of different parts, lots of different setups
cradek: sorry.. had to run a make clean, now it seems to be depending
was the previous make with a differnet compiler?
yeah.. different everything
kernel, rtai, OS, compiler, hdd
only same PC.. as if that would matter
whoa!!! emc2 is running :)
you're a genius to do that in one day
I only get one troublesome thing..
while compiling emc2:
cradek: just get two angular contact bearings
*** Warning: "rt_task_wait_period" [/home/juve/emc2/src/rtapi.ko] undefined!
*** Warning: "rt_sem_wait" [/home/juve/emc2/src/rtapi.ko] undefined!
*** Warning: "rt_sem_delete" [/home/juve/emc2/src/rtapi.ko] undefined!
*** Warning: "rt_task_init_cpuid" [/home/juve/emc2/src/rtapi.ko] undefined!
*** Warning: "rt_set_periodic_mode" [/home/juve/emc2/src/rtapi.ko] undefined!
its hardly under any load at all, i bet skate bearings would work fine (its whats on my lathe)
I thought you said it was running?
yeah.. it's running nicely
but I noticed the warnings while compiling
I had warnings like that too for a while, I wish I could remember what got rid of them
hint: only warnings, not errors
the empty Modules.symvers maybe?
you don't have that?
fenn: you mean timken roller bearings?
jmkasunich: reminds me.. do you know why programmers smoke?
cradek: it's there..
alex_joni, no, why?
because on the ciggarette packs there is "warning: causes lung cancer.."
if it would say "error: ..." then none would smoke :)
cradek: no, its the same idea, but with ball bearings
cradek: they are usually much cheaper and smaller than timken
well they ought to be cheaper, i guess its how much you're willing to pay for them though
cradek: how do I make a new deb?
emc2 deb I mean..
shouldn't I use 'sudo pbuilder create ...' ?
but there are a couple things I have under debian/ that are not in cvs (the gnome menu entry stuff)
I don't know what pbuilder is
jepler put that into the wiki
aj, oh I see.
A-L-P-H-A: what do you see?
aj, RTAI, kernal, debs
that was 5 rtai's ago :)
whatever makes ubuntu work and do EMC out of the box, I'm happy.
wonder if units can convert rtai's to hours..
aj, let me know when a new liveCD comes up for emc.
or should I just use that liveCD, and update it?
keep using the old one for a while
* alex_joni hasn't figured out how dapper works
I'm watering it but it's not working
maybe it's not getting enough sun
cradek. oh. you. are. so. clever.
it seems the dapper cd is a live cd from which you can install too
thanks, that's what my mom used to say too
but it doesn't use udeb anymore
alex_joni, yeah, I now... I installed it on my laptop last night
h_movefiles: debian/tmp/usr/share/applications/emc2.desktop not found (supposed to put it in emc2)
cradek, when she packed you your lunch, and sent you on the short bus.
dh_movefiles: debian/tmp/usr/share/pixmaps/emc2icon.png not found (supposed to put it in emc2)
dh_movefiles: debian/tmp/etc/udev/rules.d/emc2.rules not found (supposed to put it in emc2)
alex_joni: just a sec
getting the source now..
it should be there.. right?
[02:03:40] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/extras.tar.gz
alex_joni, I like ubuntu a lot.
or untar this in debian/
I'm thinking of installing it on my workstation now.
dh_movefiles: debian/tmp/usr/realtime-2.6.12-magma/modules/emc2/timedelay.ko not found (supposed to put it in emc2)
duh.. 12 not 15
need to update the emc2.files
I've been meaning to ask you.. how do you set up ccache ?
apt-get install ccache
then make symlinks in your path gcc -> ccache, gcc-4.0 -> ccache etc.
any command used to invoke a compiler should point to ccache
of course you have to put that in your path first
aha look at /usr/lib/ccache
just put that in your path first
export PATH=/usr/lib/ccache:$PATH ?
-rw-r--r-- 1 juve juve 362 2006-06-04 05:14 emc2_2.0.0.dsc
-rw-r--r-- 1 juve juve 1647398 2006-06-04 05:17 emc2_2.0.0_i386.deb
-rw-r--r-- 1 juve juve 3865440 2006-06-04 05:14 emc2_2.0.0.tar.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 juve juve 144712 2006-06-04 05:17 emc2-dev_2.0.0_i386.deb
the tar looks too big - maybe it's not cleaned (has objects inside)
yup.. seems like that
but.. may I tell you a alittle secret?
seems that yours are just as big :)
sure, but it won't be a secret anymore
well it rebuilds ok :-)
the gpl says the user has to be able to rebuild it, not that it has to be free of unnecessary things
I could have sworn I fixed that though
I wasw wondering.. did you sign the kernel packages ?
I quit signing the individual packages because it doesn't seem to be used for anything
I do sign the whole repository though
oh, so only the rep..
it will complain to the user otherwise
anyone remember the link to the robot arm that was a roller coaster ride?
you know I think my eye sight has been getting better since I stopped going to school, and using a CRT monitor.
A-L-P-H-A I thought you had 3 LCD's ?
* alex_joni finally goes to bed
alex_joni wheres that video?
I stopped using the CRTS
I guess there shouldn't be that comma
the robot ride
they had a ride at a convention that was really a robot but acted like a roller coaster.
I think it was ABB.. google it :)
ty, G'night alex_joni
asdf23r is now known as A-L-P-H-A
so nice to be in here again... on the ubuntu laptop
who's on ubuntu? what's the easiest/safest way to get gaim 2.0b3?
apt-get install ???
oh... I'm 3 now
man, do I ever have a sick, twisted, love affair with linux
Now, I'm learning about using kernel logs
why? because I want to be able to use the USBFS_SNOOP capability to reverse-engineer a USB-wifi adapter
AND I'm still trying to find information on making kernel-module packages in debian
I *was* hoping to find something in documentation, but it looks like I'm going to have to dissect a debian module source package to find out
It's too bad I don't get paid for this :(
i just started to really look at linux again, after years apart from it
ubuntu is so clean.
[sighs] dang it
I can make a kernel package
I can make a ndiswrappers package
I *want* to make a rtai-modules package
My gf HAD to ask to look at the mouse traps I bought... now she's upset.
I've been regreting this day for a week now.
Traps full of dead rats?
...rotting dead rats?
No, I just bought them today.
What, they're not 'humane' enough?
it's no the humane part, it's the taking of a life part.
Jymmm... poison is worse.
at least this way it's self contained.
or get yourself a FAST cat.
wouldn't matter how it was done, just that' it's being done.
where it'd be out and about, leaving your nice dead rat presents as gifts.
I'm more in favor of the 're-used neon sign transformer' approach, myself
ever seen a cat in action killing mice.
She'd prefer catch and release in the woods somewhere approach
they're fast, and they play with the mouse if they're bored.
I can understand that for mice.
but not rats
I'd be shopping for a new girlfriend
cats are good for one thing, dog food.
I prefer fish.
nice an easy...
or a plant.
asdfqwega signle huh?
asdfqwega go to HK... www.best161.com I think is the website
And why am I still single? Because most women (and people in general) are noodle-brains that think like your GF
what's that mean?
Huh...I tried googling 'noodle-brain' to see if it would come up with something synonymous with stupid - it seems someone made a song titled 'Noodle-brain'
Jymmm... how about, if she likes the rats lives so much, you'll go get a humane trap, and get her to release them.
Let her reach in bare-handed to get them out of the trap
you reach in from the tail end, to pull them out by the tail.
if they're mice, you could just hold them by the tail, and neck, and pull.
kills them by breaking their necks.
I dont know about rats though.
best161 - server not found
Is it a mail-oder bride site?
it's just listing of prostitutes in HK.
Well, that does me little good here in the middle of OHIO :/
I live a little bit further into the middle of nowhere than anyone really wants to be
you have corn. :)
The RABBITS carry backpacks
man. I definitely should not go to HK.
Why is that?
there's atleast a whore in every building essentially.
That's not new - the town nearest me is that same way - but they're not professional
you know this cause?
I learn vicariously from the mistakes of others - and on rare occasions do a bit of people-watching
so what you're saying is that you're freaky, and like to watch people, a voyeur?
No - I'm an amateur anthopologist
there's an "R" in that word. :)
It's late, my eyes are losing focua - and I've got x-chat configured to that my test is gray on black
You'll go blind if you continue. :)
Is ohio flat?
Sifting through documentation is hard work
Some is flat, then there's the terminal moraine
hm, wrong spelling?
morrain, can't remember which
it's been years since I've used that term
I see. http://www.google.ca/search?q=define%3A+terminal+moraine&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
oh well they are married now.... not my fault
dmessier... what's up?
Anybody awake? I am just having a look at EMC2 and trying to work out what the maximum pulse rate is for a simple parallel port stepper motor connection?
I've just successfully made a rtai-modules .deb file
I....I think I'm gonna cry
For those viewers at home, what I did was this:
Paul's rtai-source wouldn't work for me
and I copied the 'debian' subdir from paul's rtai-source over the the 'magma' dir
erased the old /usr/src/modules/rtai, and renamed 'magma' to 'rtai'
Reason for this? Paul's rtai-source was updated from the rtai-3.3 tarball - and apparently it had some errors, AND it doesn't seem to like gcc > 2.95 - although I couldn't get it to compile with that, either
The rtai-magma from CVS has at least been updated recently, and I briefly saw a mention on freshmeat.net that rtai would now work with gcc 4.0
Paul's debian/rules has a little hack to make everything install into debian standard directories - which I still need to tweak
but at least now I can, in /usr/src/linux: make-kpkg --revision 0.0.1 modules_image --added-modules rtai
and bingo! it makes a .deb
I'm still tweaking the debian/rules
so once I get that right, we'll see if I can install it on my cnc-machine, and the modules will work
grumblegrumble IRC can't stay connected...
if I could afford it, I'd get one of the new 4x4 AMD systems - dual socket dual-cores, with the low-wattage Opterons, just for compiling kernels
as it is, I may be able to put three AMD XP systems up using distcc...
connection to the net via GPRS does sucketh so
active day today eh?
sad day :(
everybody got back to home
I have a duplicate entry in my Applications -> Internet menu... how do I remove one of the extra entries?
A-L-P-H-A-2: what distro and wm ?
got back t home?
debian use update-menu for some wm
ubuntu maybe to ..
menu - provides update-menus functions for some applications
A-L-P-H-A-2: usually is not a good idea to manually edit menu entries
giacus: ubuntu, gnome
if you don't want to do it forever*
I write up ..
what's the command?
apt-cache search menu
apt-get install menu
don't know if work for sure for all WM
the right command
I do not use it in Ion3
no... but I found it in the menus
alacarte menu editor
I just press F-key menu then use tab completation
A-L-P-H-A-2: that should work manually ..
one was are /usr/bin/gaim, and the other command was just "gaim".
update-menu should be better I guess
consider to switch to a cool WM ..
Fluxbox, Ion3 , Evilwm,
got screenshots of them?
every of that has is website
fluxbox should be good to start
[15:11:56] <giacus> http://fluxbox.sourceforge.net/
[15:12:16] <giacus> http://fluxbox.sourceforge.net/screenshots-dev.php
it is also light and good for older pc
the most advanced I found is Ion3
but difficult to learn
improving keyboard at 100%
I just said ion3
[15:14:47] <giacus> http://www.giacus.org/files/shot3.png
you can install it by apt
fluxbox I like
very mac like
i have 6 virtual desktops crammed full of like 30 windows each
aj had the command to install it last time
hey got and idea
oops wrong chan
but I'll type it in here anyways
is there a way to put a splice into a wall transformer to the device, to supply it with a brownout/blackout protection for a few seconds at least...
I want to put a small UPS to my cablemodem and router.
yes its called a "battery"
which voltage does the device run at? is it DC or AC?
fenn: yeah... but I don't want it to run on the battery when there is normal power
how much power does the wall trans. give and how much does the appliance take?
(how much headroom)
transformer... <1amp... I don't know how much the device takes.
you could have a supercap
it would give a few ms at least
or rather, 100-s of ms
hmm... I was hoping for a few seconds, till power goes back one...
a supercap would be ugly at startup
like in lightning strikes, or something
i guess you only really have to worry about that once though
fenn: you'd need a resistor/current limiter (big inductor) or something
hence my question of the headroom ;)
diode and resistor solves the startup thing
diode lets the supercap discharge into the device, but not charge... the resistor bypasses the diode to slowly charge the cap
use a schottky diode to minimize the voltage drop
like this? http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/capacitor-backup.png
yeah (I assume the arrow pointing up is "from supply")
yes (it's the "V+" symbol of eagle)
this assumes that the wall-wart doesn't become a load when unpowered
if its just an unregulated supply, (ransformer, diodes, cap) then it will be fine
if its regulated, you have a couple potential problems
so probably best to just buy a UPS.
1) if its regulated, the diode drop is more likely to cause problems
when they're on sale.
the smallest UPS you can buy is probably about 10-50 times bigger than is needed for a router
yeah... I know... hence why I was hoping to be able to build one out of two AA with a DCDC voltage upper.
what is the actual voltage going from the wart to the device?
(probably printed on the wart or device or both)
let me go look and write them down.
well, the warts where these
9Vdc / 1amp (router). Cablemodem was 12VDC / 750ma
the router is probably unregulated, with an internal regulator that makes 5V from it
cablemodem is harder to tell, might be regulated 12 used by some of the modem circuits, and stepped down to 5 for the rest, or might just be unregulated
if its unregulated thats good, because your backup doesn't need to supply the exact voltage
of course, 2 different voltages complicates things
the typical "supercap" voltage rating is <=5V, so that's a complication too
yeah, you'd need multiple ones in series
a stack of rechargable batteries in series might be cheaper
size the resistor to provide a trickle charge only (probably a mA or less) so you don't overcharge them
seems like it'll take a long time to charge a modern NiMH cell that way -- the AAs are 2000+ mAh
charge them conventionally first
the trickle is just to overcome self-discharge
I don't know what the self discharge rate is, maybe its more like a several mA
* alex_joni is having some issues
emc2 on dapper .. yeah
alex_joni is a brave man
I think emc_module_helper issues
jmkasunich: emc2 from CVS (run-in-place) works perfectly
but installed doesn't?
trying to figure out what to paste here :)
+ echo 'Loading Real Time OS, RTAPI, and HAL_LIB modules'
+ /etc/init.d/realtime start
insmod: error inserting '/usr/realtime-2.6.15-magma/modules/rtai_hal.ko': -1 File exists
/usr/bin/emc_module_helper: Invalid usage with args: insert /usr/realtime-2.6.15-magma/modules/rtai_sched.ko
Usage: /usr/bin/emc_module_helper insert /path/to/module.ext [param1=value1 ...]
oh.. I think I see.. rtai_sched is not part of emc_module_helper's list?
does rtai_sched appear in the whitelist?
I have rtai_sched in my whitelist
same message on removal:
/usr/bin/emc_module_helper: Invalid usage with args: remove rtai_sched
jepler: on 2.0.0 ?
I built the release for debs
oh, I don't know about 2.0.0
who uses that old thing anymore?
is 2.0.1 out yet?
jepler: I see it in the list
the odd thing is I get an Invalid usage with args
what about the path?
module-helper prints out a long error message describing exactly what it expects to see
compare that to the arg printed
juve@ubuntu:~$ /usr/bin/emc_module_helper insert /usr/realtime-2.6.15-magma/modules/rtai_sched.ko
/usr/bin/emc_module_helper: Invalid usage with args: insert /usr/realtime-2.6.15-magma/modules/rtai_sched.ko
I see NO reason for that to fail
or to give that error message
so the path is listed under "the path starts with one of", and the module name is listed under "where module is one of"?
the module is not listed in the message, but I see it in the whitelist int he source (I think you or cradek recently increased the printed list)
are you sure you are looking at the same version you are running?
the printed list is generated directly from the whitelist
if its in the source it should be in the error message
hmm.. this might be something..
I was looking at the version that I checked out with -rRELEASE_2_0_0
duh.. no I wasn't
I hate stupid users who can't read the screen
sod off .. had a long night
sorry. t'was a joke
should /usr/realtime catch on /usr/realtime-2.6.15-magma ?
the printed message says "/usr/realtime" on my system, and the actual directory is /usr/realtime-2.6.12-magma
isn't /usr/realtime supposed to be a symlink to /usr/realtime-`uname -r` ?
jmkasunich: not that I know
jepler: odd.. wonder why it's not working..
jmkasunich: I don't have that symlink on my system
talking about a .deb package ?
nor do I, I was confused
giacus: dapper packages
odd.. I'll look later.. busy for a while :/
jmkasunich: cradek made a dapper repository with the packages I made
jepler: still there?
I see it's failing just after the first check_whitelist() check
never gets to the second one, nor the third one (which is the path checking)
[16:43:15] <A-L-P-H-A> http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/emergencypowersources/ht/ht_aqups.htm
I wonder if I still have my old old old UPS.
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/ (scope_disp.c scope_usr.h):
use a different color for each trace, and brighten it to show the selected trace
draw a "baseline" which shows where 0 is on the selected trace
when available, double-buffer the trace display
jepler, THANK YOU!
that has been on my "would be nice" list for years
jmkasunich: the "double buffering"?
jmkasunich: that was easy
jmkasunich: oh, well, they're poorly-chosen colors, but at least they're different from one another
you probably even saw some stub code in there that was intended for colors
what does double buffering mean from a user persepective?
I thought the old traces remained on-screen until the new are available anyway?
jmkasunich: you know how the display flickers when you move a trace up/down? It no longer flickers.
jmkasunich: (that part only works when compiling with gtk2)
alex_joni: can you put the whole output of emc_module_helper insert ... in pastebin or something?
alex_joni: make sure you added "rtai_sched" before "rtai"
that warning should be in a comment
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/module_helper/module_helper.c: warn of a common error made when expanding the list
has anyone gotten emc-users or emc-dev list mail since yesterday?
From: "mac" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:56:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Emc-users] CVS_HEAD and MotencLite problem...
my last email from the lists was from "mac", subject "CVS_HEAD and MotencLite problem..."
this is the last one I got
I replied to it yesterday, and the reply never showed up
not in the archives either
while we're waiting for sourceforge to fix the lists, maybe you should send a copy direct to him
I also re-sent to the list an hour or so ago
it's not being held for moderation, I checked
( 2006-05-30 04:10:06 - Mailing List Service ) As of 2006-05-26 the migration of Mailing Lists to the new infrastructure has begun. Until complete (we'll update the site status when it is), list creation may be disabled and temporary downtimes may occur, and are anticipated. Mail, however, won't be lost.
SF seems to have the reverse Midas touch latelky
everything they touch turns to shit
jmkasunich: if I make halscope (user interface portion) use posemath, will you blow a gasket?
jmkasunich: I want to add "click on a trace"
I would like HAL to be stand-alonw
how does posemath help that?
which involves computing whether the distance from the clicked point is within a threshhold of one of the lines for the trace
I've written it once in terms of posemath
dot product and magnitude, so it's easy to write without it
s/blow a gasket/be less than thrilled/
s/blow a gasket/be inclined to take the subset of posemath that is used and embedded it somewhere in halscope/
I'll just write dot() and mag() myself
if using posemath is easier for you, go ahead, I'm thrilled that you are adding features to halscope, and not about to complain about details
what's bad about posemath? more dependancies?
posemath is (incorrectly imo) part of libnml
and currently hal doesn't need anything else?
I believe that HAL has applications beyond EMC itself, and would like it to be possible to build HAL without building EMC
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/scope_disp.c: scope traces can now be selected by clicking near them
would you believe it ... connected to the 'net via my linux laptop and a Nokia phone
dern new-fangled contraptions
just plug it in, generated the right pppd and chat scripts
the USB hotplug thing just found it and sorted it
hey, I found someone with a toy you'd like
a "pistol" chambered in 30-06
heh, no thanks
good to 1000yds
I've read of a "pistol" chambered in .50 BMG
dunno if it actually exists
"for sale cheap, only fired once"
I know AMI do one .50 but its not BMG
the indoor range I go to has a .50 pistol rental, $30 for rental and range time, and 5 rounds I think
its a gimmick for people who want to say they've fired one
dunno what the pistol is, .50 desert eagle or some big ass revolver
if its a AMI desert eagle, id say its worth a go ...
I'm not into that kind of macho
friend had one in .44, I couldnt even cock the thing
nice engineering though
proper rotating lock bolt
in fact, while I enjoy shooting the 1911A1, I prefer the ruger .22
time to get a real .22 then .. nice Hammerli or Unique
nah, this one will do fine
put 500 rds thru it yesterday
sounds like the bug has bitten you then :)
actually I bought the brick intending to shoot a couple hundred and save the rest for the outdoor range
but it turned out they weren't good for the gun (low velocity loads, didn't cycle it reliably) so I decided to use them up
you can get away with quite cheap rounds in a pistol
around about 1050fps is reckoned to be "best"
using a sandbag I was regularly putting 10 rounds in a 1.5cm or so circle
at 50 feet
sounds like you have the hang of that
not so good freehand
a little shakyness
do they run postal comps out your way? Im sure they do
proper bullseye comps are one handed
doing that I tend to spray them around
they can be quite fun, shoot a pair of targets every week and send them off
shrug ... they usually have classes from "expert" to "failed to hit the barn door" ... you shoot a couple of cards to determine your class and then off you go
nice to have some sort of objective thats all
my objective is to enjoy myself
I sometimes go twice in a week, other times its a month or more between trips
depends on my mood
anything more organized might take the fun out of it
do they do "silhoutte" at your range?
thats unfortunate, its more fun when you can see a hit
hard to see a .22 hole much beyond 20 feet away
did I tell you about shooting the 45 at 100 yards?
bang! wait, wait, wait, wait, puff of dust
I was designing a target as I drove home - steel circles, from 1cm to maybe 5cm in diameter, suspended so when hit they spin around and settle back down again (like pendulums, axis parallel to the firing line, perpendicular to the bullet path)
doubt they'd allow them at the range though
we put thru 500 rounds last summer in 1 day after prairie dogs...
the .22 is still a little slow for them
they see it coming and duck? ;-)
.22 hornet or .222 works better but the ammo is more $$$
they do duck after hearing the shot
seems like anything supersonic is gonna get there before they hear it
ok so maybe the smell it i dunno... but you miss alot of good shots
dmessier, maybe the god of prairie dogs is up there looking out for them ;-)
i had 1 dog piss me off.. i finally hauled out the 30:06 and whacked him
he was making a game of being shot at
kind of a one-sided game
any of you got any [emc-users] messages today ? seems to me that the list is very slow...
etla: sourceforge has the lists shut down for some kind of maintainence
fenn: did you get tooltips working in classicladder? I can't figure them out for halscope, and I don't see much tip-related code in CL
jepler: I have a GTK book with several pages covering tooltips
any specific things I can look up?
seems like you create an (invisible) tooltips widget with gtk_tooltips_new
jmkasunich: I can't formulate the question yet, beyond "it don't work none"
I should look for a tutorial
"Signal %-20s\nt=%-8.5f v=%-8.3f", chan->name, t, v);
gtk_tooltips_set_tip(disp->tip, disp->drawing, tip, tip);
then you assign mappings between other widgets and text using gtk_tooltips_set_tip(the_tooltips_widget, the_widget_that_the_text_maps_to, the_text)
this is basically what I'm doing
you're trying to pop up info about a trace when they point at the trace?
my book doesn't mention tooltips_force_window at all
you might try the more conventional application, help for a button, first
it's in the online documentation; I tried adding it when it didn't work
you probably have to do more work when the tooltip needs to change during the program run
if that works, then you know it something unique to the drawing widget
vs. having static text like "stops the machine"
would a right click be a better way to get the "scope cursor" functionality you are looking for?
that code snippet you pasted... when are you executing it?
every time there is a motion event seen
seems like you won't know t and v until they move the mouse
(I know the code is being executed, because it also prints tip)
I get the impression that tooltips are meant to be set up in advance (shortly after the widgets they link to are created)
you could draw vertical and horizontal dashed lines based on the mouse position (cursors) and display the numerical values elsewhere on the screen (gotta find a place onscreen tho)
originally I intended the space to the right of the channel name button (where fenn put the logging button) to be used for a cursor display
in hindsight, the idea of making halscope look like a real scope front panel (controls for everything always visible) instead of using menus for some things was probably a mistake
the values could follow the cursor/lines on the screen
I just haven't been able to work up the energy to add a menu system to it
it should certainly have a file menu for logging, and for saving configs
that's sure true
I like that it saves, but I don't like its .halscope droppings everywhere
and I'd definitely like to save more than one setup
it sticks them in the current directory doesn't it
guess that could be in ~/.halscoperc or something
jmkasunich: so if you're running a sample config, it can't save
not sure if 'pwd' when running EMC is the configs dir, or the dir you were in when you started it
I'm pretty sure it's the config dir
so then storing the setup there is clearly bad
but separating it from the config is also bad - the signal names may be totally different in different configs
so I don't know what the answer is
like you say, let the user control it manually, I guess
once you have File->SaveConfig and File->LoadConfig, you could discard the autosave and autorestore completely
although it is convenient
seems to be suffering some bitrot at the moment, I'm using it, and it doesn't seem to restore the sampling thread
once I get the PWM component fixed I'll look into that
I have threads "fast" and "slow"
I shut down, then restart
instead of attaching the sample function to thread "fast" like it was before shutdown...
oh strange, that recently rotted then
it says it can't find the thread
you must have bogons about
ok, if I explicitly loadrt scope_rt before invoking halscope, it works
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/ (scope_disp.c scope_usr.h scope_vert.c): make click-to-switch-channels work better. add a tooltip with the time and value near the pointer (needs work)
but if I don't (and halscope loads scope_rt itself) it doesn't
03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (2.6.12-magma) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot7_log.txt
that is my main system, which uses GTK 1.2
checking for GTK version... 1.2
I bet jepler tested on 2.0
cradek: seen my messages from earlier?
you just said you'll try later?
short summary: the emc2.0.0 package fails to start, because module helper doesn't want to insert rtai_sched.ko
rtai_sched.ko isn't in the list of that version of emc_module_helper, but it should match /usr/realtime.. and it doesn't
03compile-farm 07BDI-TNG (2.4.18-rtai) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot3_log.txt
hmm.. did I come back at a bad time? :-)
have you done any troubleshooting yet?
yeah, seems module_helper is the problem
03compile-farm 07BDI-4.20 (2.6.10-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot5_log.txt
wonder if it has a bug, or it's compiled with the wrong flags or something
I see the HEAD version is improved (1. it has rtai_sched in the whitelist, 2. it has some cleaner checks for whitelist)
I bet the rtlib directory is wrong in your rtai config (configure doesn't figure out the path?)
cradek: the 2.0.0 version of module_helper has 3 tests for whitelists, the last one is the one that checks against /usr/realtime, but the error (and bailing out) happens on the first check
cradek: the rtai_sched was added only lateron to the list (Revision 184.108.40.206)
oh so something is just missing from the whitelist?
that is one aspect, and the other one I think is a bug
maybe you/we should make a 2.0.1 package
it should have allowed modules starting with /usr/realtime
in my case /usr/realtime-2.6.15-magma/modules/..
no that's only one requirement
I think 2.0.1 is the best choice
alex_joni: it do so for kernel 2.6.16 and latest rtai patch
giacus: it's a matter of rtai I think
I used the latest magma
emc was unable to start loading modules for me
what kernel you used ?
check a few lines above :D
22:41 < alex_joni> in my case /usr/realtime-2.6.15-magma/modules/..
well, the issue could be with the kernel maybe
it work fine for me in 2.6.16
giacus: no kernel issue
it works ok for me too, just not using 2.0.0
cradek: I think I should package the pre-2.0.1
and test for a while
then if it's ok we release ?
are you talking about packages for breezy, dapper, or both?
are there breezy packages for 2.0.1 yet?
maybe we should move TESTING ?
there is no 2.0.1 yet
only pre-2.0.1 CVS
then don't worry about the dapper packages
jmkasunich: the 2.0.0 doesn't run on dapper
as far as I'm concerned, dapper support can wait for 2.1.0
jmkasunich: ok, I have no problem with that
only a few bleeding edge people are going to be asking for dapper packages
that's why I suggested I'll package a pre-2.0.1 and see if it works
jmkasunich: had 2 new users who installed dapper (because our page says install ubuntu)
jmkasunich: I suspect a lot of people will be asking
we need to decide if dapper is a requirement for 2.0.1 or not
jmkasunich: that's only 3 days after the release..
if no, then release the 2.0.1 breezy packages (and source tarball, etc) now
jmkasunich: it's basicly a small bugfix in 2.0.0 which allows 2.0.1 to work on dapper
* jepler wanders back and looks at the complaints from the farm
jepler: glad someone does some actual work..
if so, don't make/release anything until it works on both breezy and dapper
(and, we need a volunteer to host a dapper compile farm slot)
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/scope_disp.c: remove gtk-style cast that doesn't work on old gtk
03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (2.6.12-magma) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
that wasn't the broken one
oh I withdraw my yay then
it was too (one of) the broken ones
03compile-farm 07BDI-TNG (2.4.18-rtai) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
03compile-farm 07BDI-4.20 (2.6.10-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
green board! (as the sub folks would say)
we're gonna want a Ubuntu 6.06 slot soon
I may be able to help there
jmkasunich: not sure I can host an always on 6.06
yeah - that's the issue
I could try a server install of 6.06 on a farm slot
but ubuntu is getting a little fat for those machines
maybe I can change my wife's computer over to Ubuntu, and see if she notices ;)
SWPadnos: seen Xubuntu ?
(from Windows 98)
nope. I've seen kubuntu though
Xubuntu is a lighter weight one, right - no Gnome or KDE?
by the way - I have a copy of Ubuntu 6.06 on cncgear.com, if people want to download it from there
[20:09:42] <SWPadnos> http://www.cncgear.com/Files/
(the obvious one ;) )
Xubuntu = Ubuntu + XFCE4
I have more machines but I don't want more always-on machines
right - just found the wiki page
I put xubuntu on a laptop a while back
but changing from one to another is basicly very easy
apt-get install ubuntu-dekstop
the compile farm is probably the best bet for always on boxes
apt-get install kubuntu-dekstop
apt-get install xubuntu-dekstop
I'm reading through the slashdot thread right now ;)
looks pretty simple
either that or I need a blazing fast box with qemu to run the farm
I expect to have a server set up sometime soon, which will be always-on
but I'm not sure how long that'll take me to get to
what distro do you expect to run on it?
sounds like a job for 6.06 server
"Offering VMware Server for free will bring VMware's proven virtualization technology to a wider audience, [...]"
I may just go with ubuntu for the ease of maintenance
having all the Linux systems the same caqn't make things any harder
jepler: where have you seen that?
maybe the gratis vmware would be better than qemu
what do the vmware folks mean by "server" and "player"
jmkasunich: "player" provides no facility for creating & configurating the "containers" for the hosted OS
I don't know what "server" is; it's apparently a beta of something
they have a product that's like an app server, for thin-ish clients
that may be what it is
03cradek 07v2_0_branch * 10emc2/debian/changelog: bugfix changes from during/since cnc workshop
23:04 < zul> meh...xen does patch cleanly to edgy kernel tree
23:23 < BenC> yeah, it will likely get integrated for edgy
Edgy Egret or whatever is coming after Dapper
cradek: it will make our life miserable :D
personally, I'm waiting for Feisty Ferret
its also supposed to be a couple years down the road
not sure you can patch RTAI over Xen..
(instead of just 6 months)
Xen as in Xenomai?
jmkasunich: that's why dapper is the LTS
Xen is the GL enabled X server
if it refers to X server technology, why do they say there's a kernel patch?
if everyone has to use nvidia, we're possibly going to be screwed
Xen is a virtualization system as well
isn't the X thing called XGL?
oh.. might have remembered it wrong..
I wonder how much longer realtime on PCs is going to work
rtai seems to be going weird ways
I guess it depends on what "layer" you write your code for
as long as the CPUs that it runs on are available
people were (are?) running BDI-2 5+ years after it was released
until those computers break
I think what cradek means is "how long will rtai run on most new commodity hardware"
we may find ourselves running emc on dapper 5+ years from now
it's a matter of the hardware, I think
as long as yesterday's and to a certain extent today's hardware work, we're fine
but things are definitely moving away from simple low level interfaces
(like HT, PCI-E, USB, FireWire, etc)
the good old port pin is going away
yet you can still buy parport cards
yes, but they aren't necessarily going to be available or useful for RT work soon
jmkasunich: hopefully one day motion control cards might be cheaper than parport cards
a PCI-E parport card will probably have abysmal latency
those who live on the leading edge sometime forget that the PC world has a very long tail
a PCI-E MEsa card would be nice though ;)
the next thing will be to run the realtime stuff on a "gumstix"-like device
something big enough to run linux but not a PC
the issue is when "commodity" hardware will no longer work
lots of "commodity" hardware already doesn't work (integrated video, laptops, etc)
but you can still go into just about any computer store and buy brand new hardware that will work
and if not, it works after adding a $5 video card
the problem will only get serious when the average computer store no longer stocks motherboards that have PCI slots or parports
sure, and that 's a few years out
why would the latency of a pci-e parport be worse than a pci one?
eh.. who knows what happens by then..
jepler: serial ?
jepler: no i havent finished putting tooltips in classicladder
the last batch of dells we got in only had 1 pci slot and only usb
ok - also a nic
jepler: i need to make an 'event box' for each rung element, which is an invisible widget that triggers the tooltip
dells aren't PCs anymore
jepler: also i think hal needs some function to give you a name back, i dont really remember right now though
jepler, PCI-E is a multi-channel serial link, so there are setup, packetization, and buffering issues that may adversely affect latency
I don't have specific experience with it though - just a possibility
I think software stepgen is going to be the first victim, but realtime good enough for the servo thread (1mS thread, 100uS or so latency) will be viable for quite a while
maybe rtai won't drag their feet and make dual cores work GREAT
software stepgen is a dumb idea anyway
the work by the kernel folks for better premption and such may eventually get us to a stock kernel that can manage the servo thread without RT patches
without reasonable realtime, MP3's, video, and networking don't work all that well, so I agree the 1ms level will be viable for a long time ;)
software stepgen isn't dumb
it is a very smart solution for a certain class of applications
(ones driven by cost and easy implementation)
i retract my statement
03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/scope_disp.c: remove debugging cruft
its dumb for other applications
like $100K machining centers
its just, not as good as most people originally assume
I bet it runs 90% of the machine hooked to emc
and 99% of the pc retrofits
so it's good while it lasts (it might become unworkable with pc "progress")
do you know anything about hacking commodity embedded computers?
like nslu2 and wrt54g
i've tried this concept for programming a PIC18F452, http://www.dontronics.com/dtait/parpic.gif
but with the upcoming "trusted computing" we may be unable to run free software on new commodity hardware anyway; it's useless to try to predict too far into the future
has anyone tried "in circuit programming" of a pic?
Bo^Dick: no but i've heard its unreliable
no but I use that all the time with avrs
Bo^Dick, many times, as well as AVRs
the greed of RIAA and the movie companies may doom the "personal" computer as we know it
ISP works fine for both chip families, but the PIC tends to be a bit more finicky about the pulse timing
i've tried that very circuit and the software for it but the software claims that the hardware isn't connected
though the F parts aren't as bad as the older i6C parts
always remember to not throw out your old hardware
oops - 16C
reduce, reuse, store in basement for eternity
is there anything special that i should think of when trying to program the pic this way?
noise on the lines
don't use very long cables
on the bright side, when the sheeple start buying their "trusted" home entertainment appliances, there will be millions of good old open computers for free on the treelawns everywhere
also, make sure the MCLR line switches all the way from ~0 to ~13.5V
(I think you still need 13-14V for programming the flash parts)
jmkasunich: or inside locked dumpsters and compactors
this pic features low voltage programming
Joe Sheeple isn't going to go to all that trouble
I think you still need the high voltage to put it into programming mode, but I could be wrong
the software features a debug mode and when i'm measuring on the circuit it seems like the voltage is slightly over 3 volts instead of 5 volts. wonder if my parallel-port plays a joke on me
I switched to AVR as soon as they were released, and I haven't looked back once
i went to the recycling center to try to get some electronic stuff, they wouldnt let me have any computer parts because it might have data on it, or any cellphone parts because i might electrocute myself :)
you couldcreate a terrorist cancer gun with enough cellphones, you know
what, you ain't got treelawns out in the sticks?
um, lawns? whats that?
you mean people spend hundreds of man hours CUTTING GRASS?
treelawn: the strip of grass between sidewalk and street in the burbs, where everybody puts their trash on trash day
lawn, (n): The thing you end up mowing when your wife says "Honey - can you help me with the mower for a minute?"
I've never heard it called that
maybe its a local term
what do you call it?
the "parking strip"
must be - Google doesn't seem to know what it is
"the strip of grass between the sidewalk and the road" ;)
try "tree lawn"
ah, indeed. Google did suggest that as wemm
[20:41:14] <jmkasunich> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_lawn
heh: excerpted from yourdictionary.com:
the trees that line the street are in the tree lawn, and as such its the city, not the homeowner, who is responsible for maintainence, trimming, etc of the trees
Regional Note: To the majority of Americans, the grassy strip between the sidewalk and the street is called simply 'the grassy strip between the sidewalk and the street'.
handy when a branch falls on someone, you don't get sued
not so handy when the city decides to cut down a perfectly good tree in front of your house and not replace it
(or replace it with a 1/2" diameter sprout)
I bet its a dying term anyway
as the days of streets lined with majestic 50-100 year old oaks and such are fading fast
vmware server doesn't seem to like the 2.6.12-magma kernel (as host). It immediately locked up when I tried to run it.
maybe the emulation doesn't go low enough to handle the RT
and, great, running vmware-uninstall.pl hangs, leaving unkillable processes
jepler: I'm going to try with vmware wkstation 5, I'll tell you what happen later
this is why I let other people try new things out first
jepler: cpu and ram ?
giacus: Pentium-M, 768M, ubuntu "breezy" with host kernel 2.6.12-magma
ok, I'll try with a P4, 3gzh, 1gb ram, debian k. 2.6.16,
I have to check cradek config file for the kernel yet..
unpacking the deb now
this is with VMware-server-1.0.0-24927.tar.gz
I know.. free version I suppose
wonder if is possible to transfer the entire vmware partition to a real machine using some tool
some versions of qemu-img can use vmware-format "vmdk" files
so maybe this would work: qemu-img convert example.vmdk -O raw /tmp/hda
and then dd /tmp/hda onto a real disk of the appropriate size
jepler: wonder if that would work the other way around too.. ?
take any running distro, and make a vmdk out of it.. then all you need is the free vm player
alex: I suspect you'd have problems because "any running distro" is unlikely to have the same hardware that the emulator provides
well, not quite any.. but you get the point
it's unlikely that any physical computer has a "vmware network adapter" in it ;)
though they do emulate an NE2000, I think
imagine installing something on my 200MHz compile farm slot, packing that up into a vmdk, then unpacking it onto SWP's dual Athon box ;-)
it's not Athlon, it's Opteron! ;)
(he's everywhere, he's everywhere)
alex for holiday you take a decision?
K4ts: paying on monday
YAY .. pre-2.0.1 runs on dapper
now.. if only cradek were around
on the right window the real HW
window on right side*
vmtools should improve performace, I didnt istall it yet
jepler: you around?
giacus: any progress on the movie?
looking for some pan and zoom effect
I found one in lives, but I want the inverse effect of that
kino crash, using right that
and cinelerra do not have pan and zoom
I'll update it soon
have to work tomorrow a couple of hours on it
wow.. Xen sounds pretty crazy
"Xen virtual machines can be "live migrated" between physical hosts without stopping them. During this procedure, the memory of the virtual machine is iteratively copied to the destination without stopping its execution. A very brief stoppage of around 60.300 ms is required to perform final synchronisation before the virtual machine begins executing at its final destination, providing an illusion of seamless migration. Similar technology is used to suspend
ok - the VMWare machine has an AMD PCNet32 device
probably an easier to program interface than the (originally ISA) NE2000
I had to enable some extra scsi module in the kernel to get it running, for the HD
did you create the VM with SCSI or IDE?
I used default preferences
(and was that the host or guest that needed it?)
so, I think SCSI
default is IDE
err - wait. I may have that backwards - it's been a while
right. SCSI is default - I remember that I couldn't install BDI onto the first VM I created
it was going in kernel panic..
well, that's no fun
* fenn groans
i wish people wouldnt complicate things like that
you mean the GPL stuff?
yes.. why should kernel modules be any different?
there's a battle on the way for that I guess
obviously they are derivative works because you need to look at the kernel source to know what functions to call
what if a module calls no kernel functions?
then why is it a kernel module?
IOW, the kernel module mechanism is just a way to load code into kernel space
because the code needs to run in kernel space for some reason (like being RT)
you still need hooks to use the kernel module mechanism
if that's lgpl then it would be fine
you never call the kernel, it calls you
heh only in soviet russia :)
you must provide init_module() and cleanup_module()
listen fro these calls ?
thats it (if you don't intend to use kernel resources)
I don't want to get into this discussion.....
why not :)
well i dont know what i'm talking about so it would be pretty pointless
it was interesting
giacus: go talk about it on #gnu then >:)
nothing rules out running a non-free program on Linux
_unless_ that program has parts implemented in kernel space
fenn: no.. the kernel I meant, not the gpl
then people say its a violation of the gpl, even if it never calls the kernel
i dont understand what "kernel space" really means
its just an area of memory right?
or does it have to do with permissions?
fenn: no, it's also about priority, and control ..
and actual processor execution modes
if you do an outb() in user space, the outb() doesn't actually get executed, it causes a trap and transfers control to the kernel which then decides if you are "worthy" of writing to the output port
if you do an outb() in kernel space, you write to the damned port right now!
as an embedded programmer who is accustomed to having full control of the system, I like the kernel space approach better
almost makes the PC look like a big microcontroller
no, kernel-mode execution ;)
gnu's not unix!
K4ts: gnu's not unix
* alex_joni heads to bed
see ya Alex
K4ts: you should know what gnu is !
damn it ..
you forget that ? :)
oh.. true, you was sleeping at the conference
Hoo-wah...now we're cookin' with gas
The GNU operating system is a complete free software system, upward-compatible with Unix. GNU stands for ``GNU's Not Unix''. Richard Stallman made the Initial Announcement of the GNU Project in September 1983. A longer version called the GNU Manifesto was published in September 1985. It has been translated into several other languages.
An unfortunate side effect of using debian/testing: Even when using an apt-cacher setup, it still has to get the latest Packages, even if my last update was five minutes ago :(
[22:56:35] <K4ts> http://www.giacus.org/photo/eventi/stallman/img007.jpeg.html
asdfqwega: how is possible ?
Is stallman in the lower left corner?
if you're using the apt-conf you shoud check the cache limit I think
he looks stoned
asdfqwega: yeah, and the woman is K4ts :P
K4ts: I'm happy you learn what gnu is :)
head of gnu and its fans
asdfqwega: sorry was apt.conf
k4ts: What? Where?
t watches and it wishes!
Um...lemmee consult my k4ts decoder ring...
asdfqwega: my translate is little reliable
excused if it mistakes
I don't knwo if any cares or not, but... Radio Shack has a 1,000,000 cp rechargable spotlight on sale for $4.99 and includes AC and Cigarette lighter adapters. (Note: it can NOT operate off of 12V, only able to recharge from 12V) but for $5 who cares!!!
[23:03:36] <Jymmm> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2118033&cp
* fenn yawns
* asdfqwega stares off into space
if i take a nap now, i probably wont wake up until tomorrow
fenn: what time is it there ?
fenn wire your alarm clock to a step up transformer, you'll wake up =)
or die :(
depende on voltage
no no that THAT big a step up xfmr
sorry i swore to myself i'd never use an alarm clock
uh, dont know what it is
fenn: Ok, setup a job on your cnc to end in 2 hours
another day of work in the yard
fenn: thats a nice way to live, see how long you can keep it up
* fenn goes back to reading about timer hardware
fenn you might want to get that spotlight... add extra light for when your taking photos - it has a tripod mount on the bottom (1/4-20)
nah i'll just keep taking dim photos i think
maybe you can send me a better camera :)
I keep a tripod handy in the shop
I have to take pictures monday
a better camera isn't gonna help if you dont have any light in that cave of yours
no, i really do have plenty of lights
fenn it's only $5
a flashlight isnt gonna help
oh .. les, some video of your cnc at work ? :)
even if it is "a million candle power"
fenn oh, go take a nap or something!
* fenn rolls around in a pile of datasheets
oh, hi jmkasunich
I was too busy bitching at fenn when you popped in
les_w: if you can, please take a video of cnc working, few minuts are enough, to insert them in our own emc videoclip
popped in? been here all afternoon ;-)
ok, popped up. how's that?
it will be a while though...preparing for the visit of binks and devilbiss engineering staff this week
all of them are coming I think
Ok folks, just wanted to mention that sale if anyone was interested. I've got some stuff todo, so I'm outta here. Enjoy the rest of the weekend!
looks like I have to go to Geneva again on Tueday for a week .. sigh
hey robin I got my $44,000 Agilent impedance analyzer
it's neat, but not $44,000 neat.
ITW had it shipped in.
this is for the hv gen right?
geneva huh...life is rough.
doe it draw Smith charts?
yeah for the "finger burner"
it does draw smith charts
it probably goes to frequencies ~100,000 times what you need
makes eqivalent circuit diagrams too
[23:16:43] <K4ts> http://bluedahlia.splinder.com/
heh, too easy
right swp....goes to 100 megahertz
and transfers them to the computer or printer via ethernet as well ;)
yup it does that
only 100 Mz. I suppose the 10 GHz ones are closer to $200k
It's a sin for me to be using the thing at 40 kHz
I'll trade you for my Radio Shack multimeter ;)
or a 10 Hz servo loop
sorry wrong window
The thing is huge...weighs 70 lbs
I spent a happy weekend with a 5.7 ghz trcvr I was designing and a HP S-parameter test set once ... sorted out months of stuff in a few hours
normal for RF equipment
gear like that is too useful
managed to get it on a Tek scope cart with some shhopmade brackets
$44k and they wouldn't spring for the Rackmount ears? cheapskates ;)
Really easy to use...I did not have to read the manual much
thats handy ... you'll be able to test one vital item of the spec with that ... the "survivability of a 1m drop onto concrete" :)
see you K4ts
I just wonder why the thing is so big and heavy
what could be in it?
lots of shielding inside
it's just a pc and a fast flash converter...
les_w: thinking to hack it ? :P
the spectrum analyzer we used to use is probably 70-80 punds as well (used to use = 5 years ago, not in the '60s)
Awfully powerful tool is my first impression anyway
the source has to be very stable, and well shielded. it may even be in an oven (not sure)
if you open it up, you'll probably find a large metal block with many SMA connectors on it (or metal-sheathed lines going directly in)
though 100 MHz is close to audio for a spectrum analyzer / impedance analyzer
this is it:
[23:25:34] <les_w> http://www.home.agilent.com/USeng/nav/-11885.536879654/pd.html
yep - that's what I thought
the "precision" in the name makes it a lot more expensive (to build and to buy)
I guess. Just the little Kelvin klip lead set for it cost $3500
real analyzers have APC7 connectors :)
At least I can stop guessing with this acoustics stuff.
when do you first get to see some results from it?
note that the measurement time per sample will be ~5- 200 ms at 100 KHz
Well I have played with it for half a day. Got good results. I have to stay away from it for a day or two to write a report on the uv sanitizing of our kitchen equipment....then back to the lab
If I start playing with it I won't finish the report
uv sanitizing of ...
It's money...a lot.
Using 185/254 nanometer Uv
to pull something very sneaky
when did you become a bacteriologist then?
A division asked me to develop self sanitizing commercial food processing equipment
creating a thymine-thymine covalent bond disrupting DNA
so a 400W uv discharge lamp ...
zap them bugs
nah 20 watts will do
off-the-shelf bulb or special?
we have to run tests. I need to know transmissibility of fatty acids and fatty acid esters at the 254 mercury line.
the equipment will likely be coated with thin films of grease
I googled a whole day and found nothing
surely you just coat it with grease, let it festrer for a few days, zap it, scrape bits off into petri dishes?
lots of stuff with UVA and UVB though.
We will be doing cultures yes
agar agar and all that rot.
at the end of the day, the theory doesnt matter much, you just need to see if it zaps the bugs hard enough
t's sanitizing...not sterilizing...just reducing flora/fauna populations
like a refrigerator
but I am going to pull a big trick
lots of nasty bugs dont grow in agar
can't discuss of course
just strap a nice cobalt-60 source in the top
nukularize dem bugs
i guess you only care about e.coli tho
e.coli is big, but some coliform too
infact .. nice big box, ... big source at the top, who needs a fridge?
funny thing is UV works best on Viri
good marketing when chicken flu hits
* robin_sz throws out his fridge and stores his food around a 2kg block of cobalt
the bigger the bug, the harder to kill with UV
depends on a lot of stuff
mostly whether they are adapted to live in the open or not
Oh, I have all the lethal doses for various bugs
coo. suppose so.
so p. aeruginosa for example is a lot harder to kill
dangerous to geeks then?
at UVC 254
actually the thymine thyminr dimer needs 264
so shouldnt you be measuring at 264?
but covalent bonds of cytosine and guianine happen too at similar energies
Fenn I use 254 because that is a mercury emission line. It is higher energy than the dna activation energy, but the rest will be dissipated as heat
but what wavelength does the dna actually absorb at?
Normally the bases are paired by weak hydrogen bonds to the ribose ladder...but 260 ish breks that and creats a covalent bond from base to base
and in so doing majorly fscks up the dna.
no, the base is covalently bonded to the ribose
pity I can't type
hydrdrogen bond as I have read fenn
the hydrogen bonds are between the bases
but in any case that bond is broken
and base dimers are formed
really messes things up
usually kills the organism
if it's small
maybe i'm weird but i dont enjoy killing bacteria
just seems like we must be doing something wrong
les_w, sounds like it shoudl mess up the DNA a treat .. keep it up and it will either die, or mutuate into somethng 15 feet tall with jaws.
Well, the microbiology is well known. I just have to develop the hardware.
And pull a big engineering/marketing trick.
sounds easy ... just a uv bulb and a supply ... how hard is that?
fortunately the possible permutations of DNA that yeild 15 foot tall monsters is greatly outnumbered by the permutations that are non-viable
jmkasunich, true, but .. given an infinite number of monkeys and typewriters ...
Really this is a marketing gig more than anything.....but it will be much more than a cost engineered low pressure mercury vapor lamp and a ballast
if you say so ;)
actually, I got a order fro 500 sets of metalwork for some UV lamps this week
I'm paid to make magic tricks....not source light bulbs
maybe you're paid to make sourcing light bulbs look like a magic trick?
I am dying to talk about the magic trick but cannot
one disadvantage of working alone
I'm hoping it's something the likes of Ron Popiel would be proud of