#emc | Logs for 2006-06-02

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[00:08:46] <dmessier> swimin' swimin' swimin'
[00:14:49] <dmessier> fast enuf it sound like "some women"..... but im retarded after all
[00:42:57] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/stepgen.c: typo fix
[00:43:07] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/freqgen.c: better checking for illegal step types (copying a fix to stepgen by SWP)
[00:43:20] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/hal_lib.c: use rtapi_vsnprintf (which maps to the kernel one when available - avoids a warning, and works even when the kernel one is missing
[00:49:18] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/hal_parport.c: removed an unused variable - fixes a warning
[01:05:02] <skunkworks> used a basic stamp to output pwm to test my drive. It works (2 buttons - one to increase the rpm clockwise and one to reverse that.)
[01:25:00] <Jymmm> skunkworks: WHAT?! You've couldn't even program ONe button to accomplish all that and more?! And you call yourself a in-ga-neer, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh.
[01:28:26] <jepler> first reactions to dapper: the "live CD" is just a gimmick because they don't provide a clear way to enable persistence.
[01:28:56] <jepler> "suspend" didn't work on my laptop
[01:29:31] <jepler> I don't think I'll upgrade yet
[01:31:27] <jmkasunich> I'll upgrade when some brave EMC'er provides a RT patched kernel
[01:31:51] <jmkasunich> hmm, I should set up some other system first, to remain a breezy compile farm slot
[01:36:38] <skunkworks> Jymmm: I am not an engineer - I just play one on tv
[01:56:27] <Jymmm> lol
[02:01:05] <LawrenceG> Jymmm: good evening Sir...
[03:05:07] <skunkworks> so is it possible to have a sticky cmos gate?
[03:05:44] <jmkasunich> sticky? put old chewing gum on it?
[03:05:57] <skunkworks> I should be low when it is turned on but it is high.
[03:06:10] <jmkasunich> what kind of gate?
[03:06:33] <A-L-P-H-A> Buffalo lost. :(
[03:06:44] <skunkworks> if I short it out to ground - then from that point it works normally - and it only "sticks" if it has been off for a long time.
[03:06:52] <jmkasunich> what kind of gate?
[03:07:00] <A-L-P-H-A> and gate?
[03:07:03] <A-L-P-H-A> or gate?
[03:07:11] <A-L-P-H-A> iron gate?
[03:07:17] <A-L-P-H-A> alu gate?
[03:07:24] <A-L-P-H-A> <noun> gate?
[03:07:40] <skunkworks> it is a 4049 inverter
[03:07:58] <skunkworks> its output is 2 fets push pull
[03:08:04] <jmkasunich> and you've confirmed that the input is correct?
[03:08:08] <skunkworks> yes
[03:08:30] <A-L-P-H-A> dang... dmess isn't around.
[03:08:37] <A-L-P-H-A> wonder if he has a scope...
[03:08:37] <skunkworks> I had some issues with the circuit - so I could have damaged it I suppose. I do have another one to try - just not here.
[03:08:38] <jmkasunich> bypass cap nearby? (0.1uF or similar)
[03:09:01] <skunkworks> across vcc and ground of the chip
[03:09:07] <jmkasunich> what is the output driving?
[03:09:14] <skunkworks> the ir2111
[03:09:25] <jmkasunich> ir2111 uses the same vcc and ground?
[03:09:27] <skunkworks> on works fine - other "sticks
[03:09:31] <skunkworks> yes
[03:09:49] <jmkasunich> one and the other - these are two sections in the same chip, right?
[03:10:04] <skunkworks> yes of the 4049
[03:10:25] <jmkasunich> what about the other 4 sections? are they used? if not, are their inputs tied either high or low?
[03:10:38] <jmkasunich> sometimes strange stuff happens when cmos inputs float
[03:11:25] <skunkworks> I did not tie them to anything - had really thought about it - didn't do anything though. Maybe I will look at it with a scope to see if it is doing somehting odd.
[03:11:53] <skunkworks> this is a test circut the plan was to put 3 axises on one board and use all the gates up.
[03:13:24] <skunkworks> seemed odd - 3 times now - the gate is high when it should be low - when I short the output pin to ground then everything works correctly.
[03:13:39] <skunkworks> input has no effect.
[03:14:17] <jmkasunich> after shorting the output to ground the input _does_ have an effect, right?
[03:14:27] <skunkworks> right
[03:14:41] <skunkworks> works normally then. as expected.
[03:15:07] <jmkasunich> might be a frotzed chip
[03:15:16] <skunkworks> really cool like - motor spinning and everything :)
[03:15:21] <jmkasunich> you are _absolutely_ sure all the pins are connected properly?
[03:16:01] <skunkworks> not 100% other than the all unused gates are not hooked to anything.
[03:16:23] <jmkasunich> next time it locks up just drag your finger along the pins
[03:16:32] <skunkworks> I am sure I could have another issue.
[03:16:37] <skunkworks> Ok - I will.
[03:16:51] <jmkasunich> if an input is floating, your finger will provide a path to ground or vcc, put it into a known state
[03:17:32] <jmkasunich> just thought of something
[03:17:48] <jmkasunich> are you lookng directly at the output of the inverter? or at the output of the IR2111?
[03:18:01] <skunkworks> I had 2 solder bridges and 2 swapped pins - so before I got it running it was taking more current.
[03:18:08] <skunkworks> output pin of the inverter.
[03:18:16] <jmkasunich> ok
[03:18:38] <jmkasunich> the reason I asked is that the 2111 might need to see a couple edges before it turns on
[03:19:05] <jmkasunich> if your system starts by PWMing one side and holding the other fixed, that 2111 might not enable itself
[03:19:29] <skunkworks> I know it will not run with 100% - as in continuous on. I was pulsing it (using a battery to turn on the optos)
[03:19:37] <jmkasunich> ok
[03:19:43] <skunkworks> I start low. both sides.
[03:20:24] <skunkworks> I may have just borked the inverter - It is the only one I have not swapped out.
[03:20:34] <jmkasunich> could be
[03:31:32] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, you may know this...
[03:31:51] <A-L-P-H-A> how good is a PC sound card scope? is it good enough for testing my CNC pulse rate?
[03:31:53] <jmkasunich> I know no think!
[03:32:12] <jmkasunich> nothink that is ;-)
[03:32:31] <jmkasunich> I have no experience with PC sound scopes
[03:32:35] <A-L-P-H-A> :(
[03:32:36] <A-L-P-H-A> dang.
[03:36:31] <skunkworks> jmkasunich: thanks (I am very happy so far with the ir2111)
[03:36:43] <jmkasunich> cool
[03:36:57] <skunkworks> maybe this weekend - closed loop :)\
[04:06:13] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/rtapi/rtai_rtapi.c: need to export rtapi_vsnprintf if we are going to use it
[04:14:31] <jmkasunich> found a bug in my pwm module, gotta reboot
[04:23:53] <Jymmm> what's a 'ir2111' ?
[04:52:39] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/ (Makefile Makefile.inc.in):
[04:52:39] <CIA-8> Initial commit of a PWM generator HAL component. It doesn't work correctly yet
[04:52:39] <CIA-8> - with pure-pwm and max-freq both set to zero, it works like the existing
[04:52:39] <CIA-8> freqgen pseudo-pwm generator, but there are bugs in the code that runs when
[04:52:39] <CIA-8> pure-pwm and/or max-freq are non-zero.
[04:52:39] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/pwmgen.c:
[04:52:43] <CIA-8> Initial commit of a PWM generator HAL component. It doesn't work correctly yet
[04:52:45] <CIA-8> - with pure-pwm and max-freq both set to zero, it works like the existing
[04:52:47] <CIA-8> freqgen pseudo-pwm generator, but there are bugs in the code that runs when
[04:52:49] <CIA-8> pure-pwm and/or max-freq are non-zero.
[04:54:53] <Jymmm> yo jmkasunich
[04:55:22] <jmkasunich> yo
[04:55:37] <Jymmm> musta been some bug
[04:55:58] <jmkasunich> not really
[04:56:06] <jmkasunich> just tried to access a NULL pointer
[04:56:16] <jmkasunich> but if you do that in a kernel module, its a kernel oops
[04:56:28] <jmkasunich> system still works, but you can't remove the module without rebooting
[04:56:28] <Jymmm> Ah, I meant the lag between reboot and your return =)
[04:56:47] <Jymmm> all fixed now?
[04:56:51] <jmkasunich> I didn't bother rejoining the channel until the bug was fixed
[04:57:33] <jmkasunich> the null pointer thing is fixed, the code needs some tweaking but not tonight... its safe to run now, just doesn't deliver the proper output in some modes
[05:08:10] <Jymmm> I'm not even sure what a 'pwn' module is/does =)
[05:08:16] <jmkasunich> pwm
[05:08:21] <jmkasunich> pulse width modulation
[05:08:29] <Jymmm> oh, for servos?
[05:08:35] <jmkasunich> yea
[05:08:58] <Jymmm> ok, cool. But doesn't emc have something for servos already?
[05:09:25] <jmkasunich> if you have a board with dac's on it, and servo amps with analog inputs, yes
[05:09:39] <jmkasunich> this is an ultra cheap way, servo thru the parport
[05:09:46] <jmkasunich> not something you'd do on a big machine
[05:10:10] <Jymmm> very cool... so I should start finding some treadmills to rip apart?
[05:10:15] <jmkasunich> no
[05:10:30] <Jymmm> awwwwww, your no fun!
[05:10:52] <jmkasunich> people have already done servos this way, using the existing HAL freqgen module
[05:11:02] <jmkasunich> the new pwm module just makes it a little more convenient
[05:11:19] <jmkasunich> the motors that people have used so far are small, like 12V 1A
[05:11:29] <jmkasunich> its not something you want to do with bigger motors
[05:12:36] <Jymmm> Hmmmm, you think I could use those lil DC hobby motors and some chepa encoder?
[05:12:44] <jmkasunich> jepler's servo etch-a-sketch is more like it
[05:12:48] <Jymmm> $0.99 motors
[05:12:56] <Jymmm> from RS
[05:13:07] <jmkasunich> you still have to build an H-bridge
[05:13:12] <jmkasunich> jepler used a L298
[05:13:15] <jmkasunich> its pretty simple
[05:13:34] <Jymmm> Does L298 support microstepping (that your aware of)?
[05:13:49] <jmkasunich> L298 is just a dual H bridge power stage
[05:14:02] <jmkasunich> I think its the L297 that makes it into a stepper driver
[05:14:09] <jmkasunich> and I don't know if that uSteps or not
[05:14:09] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[05:14:58] <Jymmm> the numbers looked familure, I just confused them
[05:15:19] <jmkasunich> until very recently, so did I
[05:15:23] <Jymmm> =)
[05:16:08] <Jymmm> Totally off topic, but do you know some wya I could control hotwire (DC) ?
[05:16:49] <jmkasunich> you mean for foam cutting?
[05:16:51] <Jymmm> up to (roughly) 1000 Watts (maybe 500 watts)
[05:16:55] <Jymmm> yeah
[05:17:04] <jmkasunich> what kind of control do you need? manual, automatic?
[05:17:20] <jmkasunich> variac feeding step-down transformer?
[05:17:47] <Jymmm> soemthign I could control from a pot
[05:18:31] <jmkasunich> variac is a big pot ;-)
[05:18:51] <Jymmm> heh, a 20gram pot, not a 20 pound one =)
[05:19:19] <jmkasunich> light dimmer feeding a step-down transformer?
[05:19:33] <Jymmm> DC
[05:19:52] <Jymmm> I didnt think I could use a dimmer on DC
[05:19:54] <jmkasunich> why?
[05:20:04] <Jymmm> open the hood of your car =)
[05:20:08] <jmkasunich> the hotwire doesn't care if you feed it AC or DC
[05:20:28] <Jymmm> but transformers dont do DC =)
[05:20:53] <jmkasunich> is this going to be powered from normal AC power (120VAC)?
[05:21:05] <Jymmm> No, 13.8VDC
[05:21:13] <jmkasunich> why?
[05:21:16] <Jymmm> of 12v gelcell
[05:21:19] <Jymmm> or
[05:21:23] <Jymmm> portable
[05:21:50] <Jymmm> think concrete forms
[05:21:55] <jmkasunich> 500W at 12V is 40 amps
[05:22:15] <Jymmm> car battery can do that
[05:22:43] <jmkasunich> yeah, but controlling it with a pot isn't that simple
[05:23:07] <jmkasunich> PWM into a beefy mosfet would work, but its not something a non-electronics person can design and build
[05:23:25] <Jymmm> I know, that's why I asked. I'm not familure with DC components out there.
[05:23:42] <Jymmm> couldn't I use a 555 ?
[05:23:54] <Jymmm> to generate the pulse
[05:23:59] <jmkasunich> you could use a 555 to generate the PWM
[05:24:10] <jmkasunich> thats the easy part, I could come up with half a dozen ways to make PWM
[05:24:23] <jmkasunich> the hard part is switching 40-50A reliably
[05:24:49] <Jymmm> ok, so what about 250W or 100W?
[05:25:08] <jmkasunich> a 555 alone can switch about 1W if you are carefull
[05:25:29] <Jymmm> oh I need FAR more than 1W =)
[05:25:36] <jmkasunich> no shit
[05:25:41] <Jymmm> lol
[05:25:58] <jmkasunich> thats exactly my point
[05:27:15] <jmkasunich> do you know what the resistance of the wire is?
[05:27:25] <jmkasunich> (both cold and hot?)
[05:27:58] <Jymmm> Yes, I have about 200,000 feet of various gauges
[05:28:12] <jmkasunich> that doesn't help me
[05:28:29] <jmkasunich> you probably want to use a certain length, and maybe a certain guage
[05:28:44] <jmkasunich> so how many ohms does that length have?
[05:28:46] <Jymmm> I know, but the guage/resistance will vary, I know the max wattage I need to control.
[05:29:09] <jmkasunich> well max watts depends on the resistance
[05:29:22] <jmkasunich> so if you don't know it, you can't do much of anything
[05:29:57] <Jymmm> Um, not in this case. Lets say it's 10ohm/in. if the cutter is 12" it's 120ohm, if it's 48" it 480ohms.
[05:30:17] <jmkasunich> if its 10 ohms/inch, you are fucked
[05:30:29] <Jymmm> It was just an example.
[05:30:37] <jmkasunich> so what is it for real?
[05:30:43] <jmkasunich> I only need a ballpark answer
[05:31:42] <Jymmm> I have various sizes, from 40ga to 18ga. they all are different.
[05:31:59] <jmkasunich> ok, lets go at it the other way
[05:32:00] <Jymmm> but hold on, let me grab one
[05:32:03] <jmkasunich> you got 12V
[05:32:08] <jmkasunich> you want 500W
[05:32:28] <jmkasunich> thats 40 or so amps (40A * 12V = 480W)
[05:32:58] <jmkasunich> to flow 40A with a 12V source, you need 0.3 ohms total resistance
[05:33:21] <jmkasunich> 12 / 40 = 0.3
[05:33:27] <Jymmm> okey, one is 17.01OPF or 1.4175 OPI
[05:33:41] <jmkasunich> 17 ohms per foot?
[05:33:49] <Jymmm> yes
[05:34:03] <jmkasunich> then a 1 foot piece will draw just a hair over 2/3 of an amp, or about 8 watts
[05:34:51] <Jymmm> and another is .4129 OPF, or 0.0344083 OPI
[05:34:57] <jmkasunich> better
[05:35:22] <jmkasunich> a foot will draw 12V/0.4ohm = 30A, and dissipate 360W
[05:35:46] <jmkasunich> you probably want constant watts per inch
[05:35:48] <Jymmm> But what YOU dont get, is that I use various ones. it's not always gonna be that. But I Do know that max wattage I'll ever need.
[05:36:03] <Jymmm> ^to control.
[05:36:40] <jmkasunich> how do you pick the wire you are gonna use?
[05:37:26] <Jymmm> it depends on the application and/or material. It's not always foam cutting.
[05:37:44] <jmkasunich> do you pick the wire so you get the power you need?
[05:37:44] <Jymmm> some times it's making heating elements
[05:38:10] <Jymmm> Ok, for example... the 40ga is small enough to use on a sewing machine
[05:38:15] <jmkasunich> and this widget we're talking about is also supposed to control heating elements?
[05:38:50] <Jymmm> a DC heat controller, yeah
[05:39:02] <jmkasunich> thats a hell of a wide range
[05:39:55] <jmkasunich> the 40 gage will go up in a puff of smoke at current levels that won't even make the big stuff warm
[05:39:56] <Jymmm> I've had customers come up with various uses for hotwire beyonf foam cutting.
[05:40:46] <Jymmm> jmkasunich but your thiking like 48", not like 12 fetet wound in a coil.
[05:40:51] <Jymmm> feet
[05:41:12] <jmkasunich> current doesn't care how long it is
[05:41:42] <jmkasunich> an inch or a mile, it will still take the same amount of current to reach a certain temperature
[05:42:00] <jmkasunich> but a mile will take a heck of a lot more voltage to drive that current thru the wire
[05:42:10] <Jymmm> right
[05:42:26] <jmkasunich> so, both current and voltage are variables
[05:42:31] <Jymmm> but het controllers are like $100,
[05:42:33] <jmkasunich> fat wires need more current
[05:42:34] <Jymmm> heat
[05:42:39] <jmkasunich> long wires need more voltage
[05:42:59] <jmkasunich> _any_ controller will only cover a certain range of voltage and current
[05:43:41] <Jymmm> I have to start somewhere... and 250W seems reasonable.
[05:43:49] <jmkasunich> watts aint enough
[05:43:59] <jmkasunich> 500 volts at 0.1A is 50W
[05:44:07] <jmkasunich> 5 volts at 10A is also 50 watts
[05:44:14] <jmkasunich> which one do you need?
[05:44:30] <Jymmm> 0 to 48VDC should do
[05:44:44] <jmkasunich> I thougth you were using a 12V power source
[05:44:52] <Jymmm> It was one example.
[05:45:22] <jmkasunich> you keep changing the rules
[05:46:04] <jmkasunich> variac feeding a step down transformer, possibley with multiple secondaries that you can connect in parallel for low voltage high current, or in series for high voltage low current, would be one aproach
[05:46:09] <Jymmm> I'm not trying to be difficult here, but I'm not locking myself into somethign specific. the design feature,s capabiliities will change on the application, I'd like to have a "universal" controller as much as possible/reasonable.
[05:46:26] <jmkasunich> substitute light dimmer for variac for lighter and easier to adjust
[05:46:40] <jmkasunich> of you want DC input, then you have to do something different
[05:46:50] <Jymmm> Right, for AC that's fine, not I need somethign for DC
[05:46:52] <jmkasunich> and what you do depends _totally_ on the ratings you need
[05:47:29] <Jymmm> Ok, 250W@48VDC is 5A
[05:47:40] <jmkasunich> where are you gonna get 48VDC?
[05:48:03] <Jymmm> four car batteries
[05:48:15] <jmkasunich> not all that portable...
[05:48:16] <Jymmm> (Yes, I know 13.8, but still)
[05:48:48] <Jymmm> portable in the sense of no mains at the location.
[05:48:52] <jmkasunich> for DC input, PWM is pretty much the only reasonable choice
[05:49:04] <jmkasunich> that means turn it on, then turn it off
[05:49:15] <Jymmm> Right, but what do I send the pulse to?
[05:49:16] <jmkasunich> since the wire is a resistor, not an inductor, you can't control the peak current
[05:49:22] <jmkasunich> MOSFETs
[05:49:37] <jmkasunich> they have to be beefy enough to handle the PEAK current
[05:49:45] <Jymmm> any mosfeets under $100 that could handle that?
[05:49:54] <jmkasunich> which is determined by the supply voltage and the cold wire resistance
[05:50:07] <jmkasunich> it depends on the wire, which is why I keep asking you
[05:50:29] <jmkasunich> put a 10 ohm wire on there, and it will draw 4.8A when its on
[05:50:32] <Jymmm> And I'm telling you the type/length of wire will vary.
[05:50:45] <jmkasunich> you ran run at 100% duty cycle and have your 250 watts (more or less)
[05:51:00] <jmkasunich> put a 0.5 ohm wire on there, and when the FET is on you'll draw 100A
[05:51:07] <jmkasunich> 4800W instantaneous power
[05:51:25] <jmkasunich> if you run at 5% duty cycle, the average power is 240W
[05:51:37] <jmkasunich> but your mosfets have to be able to handle that 100A peak current
[05:51:59] <jmkasunich> so the minimum wire resistance you intend to use is a huge factor in how expensive it is
[05:52:15] <jmkasunich> if you aren't willing or able to put a number on that, then you can't design anything
[05:53:19] <Jymmm> I CAN'T put a number on it, really. I can't. it depends on the application.
[05:53:33] <jmkasunich> then you can't put a number on what it will cost
[05:54:28] <jmkasunich> if the application might need a 0.05 ohm wire, then you need to have 1000A worth of mosfets
[05:54:38] <Jymmm> ok, fine... we'll play it your way.... 13.8VDC @ 250W = 0.004 ohms
[05:54:43] <jmkasunich> somewhere you gotta draw a line
[05:54:48] <jmkasunich> huh?
[05:55:05] <Jymmm> wth was that?!
[05:55:07] <Jymmm> lol
[05:55:10] <jmkasunich> 250W / 12V = 21A or so
[05:55:23] <jmkasunich> 21A with 12V is about a half an ohm
[05:55:26] <jmkasunich> not 0.004
[05:55:40] <jmkasunich> 12V / 0.004ohm = 3000A!
[05:56:06] <Jymmm> 250W @ 13.8VDC = 18.11A, or 0.762 ohms
[05:56:14] <jmkasunich> thats more like it
[05:56:25] <Jymmm> my calc puked on me
[05:56:28] <jmkasunich> (I was doing the math in my head and rounding off)
[05:56:52] <Jymmm> I wasn't, that was the problem =)
[05:56:55] <jmkasunich> heh
[05:57:04] <jmkasunich> time for me to go, 2am here
[05:57:10] <joeKr> Has anyone heard any early reports yet of using the EMC2 install script with the just-released Ubuntu 6.06?
[05:57:32] <jmkasunich> I haven't heard anything
[05:57:36] <jmkasunich> goodnight folks
[05:57:38] <Jymmm> ok, hasta. if you think of any mosfets in that range, let me know. =)
[05:57:52] <Jymmm> CHEAP
[05:59:55] <joeKr> Jymmm: I missed the beginning of your discussion, why are you trying to heat a wire?
[06:00:42] <Jymmm> joeKr: Heh, no. I'm trying to come up with a DC controller
[06:01:54] <joeKr> Jymmm: But you're not sure of the voltage or current you want, is that it?
[06:07:57] <joeKr> Has anyone heard how long it will be before a new EMC2-Live CD with Ubuntu 6.06 appears?
[06:12:11] <Jymmm> joeKr: No, the application will dictate the voltage/current needs.
[06:19:30] <joeKr> Jymmm: You're not sure what you're going to be doing?
[06:19:47] <Jymmm> its for a "universal" controller
[06:21:19] <joeKr> Jymmm: But you must have some idea what the project is?
[06:21:43] <joeKr> Jymmm: What the desired end result is?
[06:22:13] <Jymmm> Think like a variable power supply... you dont' know what the voltage is going to be.
[06:22:31] <Jymmm> you dont have a SPECIFIC value in mind when you buy one.
[06:22:43] <fenn> um, yea you do
[06:23:12] <fenn> "mom look! a heat controller! i want it i want it!"
[06:23:15] <Jymmm> fenn oh go mill some foam will ya!
[06:29:48] <joeKr> But the power supply designer had a range in mind, though. That's why you sometimes see a series of power supplies from the same manufacturer with approximately similar case sizes, weights, prices, etc. One might be (making up some numbers just for example) a 0-6V @ 100A, next a 0-20V @ 30A, next a 0-60V @ 10A, next a 0-200V at 3A, and so on.
[06:31:17] <joeKr> But wouldn't it have been better to make just one "universal" power supply? No, it wouldn't, that would have been a lot harder than to have six different models.
[06:34:05] <alex_joni> morning
[06:34:58] <alex_joni> joeKr: have you tried the new 6.06 Live CD ?
[06:36:54] <alex_joni> joeKr: my local mirrors don't have any LiveCD's yet
[06:37:33] <joeKr> alex_joni: I'm DL'ing the new regular Ubuntus now. Then I'll try it on an older PC. I was wondering how long before the 6.06-updated EMC2 Live will appear?
[06:38:56] <alex_joni> joeKr: I see no 6.06 Live CD
[06:39:08] <alex_joni> when there will be one, then I'll probably add emc2 on it
[06:39:09] <joeKr> * joeKr doesn't know how to make one from the 6.06-alternate iso, or whatever it is.
[06:39:24] <alex_joni> joeKr: the 5.10 Live CD with emc2 was made from the 5.10 Live CD
[06:39:37] <alex_joni> so to make a new one, there needs to be a new LiveCD
[06:42:15] <joeKr> I see 6.06 "Desktop" (I'm guessing that's run-live, although it's not completely clear. I'll find out shortly.), "Server" (Definitly an install disk), and "Alternate"(none of the above?) which they say you can add things to.
[06:42:28] <alex_joni> not really
[06:42:31] <alex_joni> those are all installs
[06:42:39] <alex_joni> Desktop & Server versions
[06:44:11] <joeKr> Why have a desktop install when you can have a server install? Doh! Of course! Drop server features and make room for more games!
[06:45:03] <alex_joni> joeKr: they started with the desktop install
[06:45:14] <alex_joni> now they released their first server install
[06:46:36] <joeKr> LOL
[06:48:49] <joeKr> Did the 5.10 run-live follow the 5.10 install after awhile? Or did it appear at the same time?
[06:49:23] <alex_joni> a few months I think
[06:49:37] <alex_joni> to make sure go ask in #ubuntu
[06:51:24] <joeKr> alex_joni: OK, thanks, maybe I will later
[06:54:06] <fenn> btw why do you want an emc2 live cd with the latest ubuntu on it?
[06:55:21] <joeKr> alex_joni: What does this mean (on the mirror site), "The desktop CD allows you to try Ubuntu without changing your computer at all, and at your option to install it permanently later."
[06:58:53] <joeKr> fenn: I'm planning to go visit a friend who wants to learn CNC. I just wanted to bring him the latest demo.
[06:59:21] <joeKr> fenn: and other disks too.
[07:00:09] <alex_joni> joeKr: it means it probably works as a Live CD too
[07:00:46] <joeKr> alex_joni: good deal! two-for-one!
[07:02:02] <joeKr> Oops! Wait, doesn't that make it a "universal" disk, LOL?
[09:17:57] <Didier909> hello everybody
[09:18:08] <fenn> good morning
[09:18:43] <Didier909> it's 11:25 AM for me, and you ?
[09:18:54] <fenn> 5:20 am
[09:19:07] <Didier909> ohhh , good morning, then
[09:20:06] <Didier909> everybody is sleeping, no ?
[09:21:06] <Didier909> i will come back later
[09:21:17] <Didier909> bye
[09:21:23] <fenn> bye
[09:37:57] <les_w> <yawn> morning.
[09:45:16] <alex_joni> morning les
[09:45:36] <alex_joni> fenn: what are you doing still up?
[09:59:52] <les_w> I just got up.
[10:00:13] <les_w> The chickens crowing wake me up at 5:00 am.
[10:02:13] <alex_joni> that's too bad ;)
[10:04:04] <les_w> it's a little early.
[10:26:37] <fenn> alex_joni: i rotate my schedule forward, not backward
[10:27:00] <les_w> up late or early fenn?
[10:27:14] <fenn> um, neither
[10:27:21] <les_w> ?
[10:27:23] <fenn> woke up 4 hours ago
[10:27:26] <les_w> ah
[10:27:52] <les_w> chickens woke me.
[10:27:59] <giacus> morning guys
[10:28:03] <les_w> they crow an hour before sunrise.
[10:28:10] <les_w> How do they know?
[10:28:26] <les_w> morning jacky
[10:29:04] <les_w> I guess they wear little chicken wristwatches.
[10:30:15] <giacus> got a nice day with sun this morning here, and k4ts is coming here in train ;)
[10:30:23] <les_w> great
[10:30:37] <les_w> how long is the train ride?
[10:30:43] <giacus> yesterday was raining .. strange weather
[10:31:08] <giacus> naples-reggio calabria, train is ES (eurostar)
[10:31:25] <giacus> fast train.. about 500 km 3.5 hours
[10:31:41] <les_w> pretty fast
[10:31:41] <giacus> should be here around 15:00
[10:31:56] <giacus> yeah, the fastness we have is it
[10:32:00] <les_w> I used to ride the TGV in France a lot
[10:32:04] <les_w> it was fast
[10:32:11] <giacus> stop only in few stations
[10:33:39] <giacus> les_w: yeah, here are going to made the TAV in north italy
[10:33:57] <giacus> should be Treni ad Alta Velocità
[10:34:14] <les_w> Well, time to unpack the electronics that was delivered yesterday
[10:34:16] <giacus> high speed train from Lione Turin
[10:34:52] <giacus> but peoples of Val di susa don't like that idea ..
[10:34:55] <les_w> We don't have high speed trains here
[10:35:01] <les_w> I wish we did
[10:35:18] <giacus> you no need it, you can fly ;P
[10:35:20] <giacus> hehe
[10:35:23] <les_w> heh
[10:36:18] <giacus> I just seen some station there in L.A. the Union station if I remember well
[10:36:24] <giacus> very nice
[10:36:30] <giacus> excellent
[10:37:02] <les_w> I have not been to LA i n years
[10:37:40] <giacus> its a bit away maybe
[10:37:48] <les_w> yes
[10:37:49] <giacus> US are too big :)
[10:38:29] <giacus> my idea was to rent a car and travel a bit around US
[10:38:39] <giacus> but I had just 20 days ..
[10:38:53] <giacus> many italian peoples do it, renting a car there
[10:39:23] <les_w> the traffic seems much less due to gasoline prices
[10:39:39] <giacus> everywhere..
[10:39:46] <les_w> Deisel is very high too....I pay a lot to run the tractor
[10:39:57] <giacus> that's a mondial crisis
[10:40:39] <giacus> could be time to get an alternative source of energy
[10:41:14] <giacus> was you talking about chickens ?
[10:41:30] <giacus> I had a strange issue a week ago
[10:41:34] <les_w> I think oil producers will keep prices just below the point where alternate fuels are viable
[10:41:45] <les_w> a chicken issue?
[10:41:47] <les_w> ha
[10:42:08] <giacus> some animal kills 5 chickens here during the night
[10:42:17] <giacus> can't understand how didi it ..
[10:42:31] <les_w> A weasel killed one of mine
[10:42:37] <giacus> just entered an kill , without eat the chicken
[10:42:53] <les_w> that's what weasels do
[10:42:57] <giacus> was not a dog I think
[10:43:03] <les_w> they only want the blood
[10:43:04] <giacus> some strange animal
[10:43:08] <giacus> yeah
[10:43:36] <giacus> killed a bid duck too :(
[10:43:41] <les_w> hmm
[10:44:19] <giacus> it happened around 5:00 of the morning
[10:44:42] <les_w> well off to unpack the impedance meter....it will take a while to learn how to use it
[10:44:52] <giacus> cool
[10:44:56] <les_w> most expensive electronics in my shop....
[10:45:10] <les_w> $44,000 as delivered!!!!
[10:45:19] <les_w> I must be careful with it
[10:45:20] <giacus> I also have a poor impedence meter
[10:45:25] <giacus> 200 E.
[10:45:27] <giacus> heheh
[10:45:49] <giacus> how much the cost of it ?
[10:46:37] <giacus> 44,000 ?
[10:46:46] <fenn> why does it cost so much again?
[10:46:50] <les_w> yes
[10:46:56] <les_w> I don't know
[10:46:59] <les_w> http://www.home.agilent.com/USeng/nav/-11885.536879654/pd.html
[10:47:37] <giacus> wow
[10:48:22] <giacus> the mine is here http://www.giacus.org/photo/hobby/idroid01/img012.jpeg
[10:48:24] <giacus> lol
[10:48:30] <giacus> up to the scope
[10:49:03] <les_w> ha
[10:49:54] <les_w> It will take me a while to learn how to use this thing
[10:51:18] <giacus> how big is the user manual ? hehe
[10:51:40] <les_w> very big
[10:51:47] <giacus> :p
[10:52:14] <les_w> I will have it display fourier transforms and smith charts
[10:52:28] <les_w> it programs in basic I think
[10:52:48] <fenn> smith charts :)
[10:53:07] <fenn> oops nevermind i was thinking gantt charts
[10:53:10] <giacus> that's a jewel of tecnology
[10:53:20] <les_w> I prob won't use smith charts much
[10:53:46] <les_w> just a real time plot of real and imaginary vs freqency
[10:54:14] <les_w> oh it draws equivalent circuits on the screen too
[10:55:18] <les_w> of course I am making audio transducers with it
[10:55:41] <giacus> cool
[10:56:10] <les_w> I got a kick press cleaned up yesterday to press aluminum diaphragms
[10:56:19] <les_w> I painted it too
[10:56:54] <les_w> I used automobile paint
[10:56:59] <giacus> I always had the issue to test my equipment after designed it ..
[10:57:03] <les_w> good for machine tools
[10:57:08] <les_w> very durable
[10:58:01] <les_w> well off to the shop
[10:58:05] <les_w> later!
[10:58:34] <giacus> have a phun ;
[10:59:13] <giacus> the highest level I reached testing audio equipments was the impedence curve ..
[10:59:42] <giacus> measuring the impedance and changing the frequency from 20 hz to 10000
[11:00:11] <giacus> the drawaing a point in a paper for any measure :/
[11:00:32] <giacus> I got a poor curve, but quite real
[11:02:05] <giacus> going to bathroom to shave ..
[11:02:21] <giacus> can't receive k4ts with this beard :D
[11:02:25] <giacus> later ..
[11:03:03] <giacus> I dont want to scare her haha
[12:58:08] <SkunkWorks> alex_joni: you around?
[13:26:15] <alex_joni> yup
[13:29:04] <SkunkWorks> Hi.
[13:29:33] <SkunkWorks> My h-bridge seems to be working so far :). I was wondering though.
[13:30:24] <SkunkWorks> jmk last night was saying that pwm out from emc should only be used for small motors (1 amp or so). what would be the issue running larger motors?
[13:30:31] <SkunkWorks> do you think?
[13:30:48] <SkunkWorks> say in the 10 amp range maybe.\
[13:31:05] <SkunkWorks> what is your opinion :)
[13:32:11] <alex_joni> well.. depends how much you trust the PC
[13:32:20] <alex_joni> smaller motors cause smaller damage
[13:32:46] <alex_joni> I'm not sure what happens if the PC locks up with a PWM switched on, driving a 20Amp motor..
[13:33:06] <SkunkWorks> right - I don't have an issue with that - take that out of the equation.
[13:33:40] <SkunkWorks> also with the ir2111 - if it gets a continuous high - it will shut down as the bootstrap discharges.
[13:35:08] <SkunkWorks> what do you think about posision and speed performance. (with emc doing it all)
[13:35:55] <alex_joni> I don't ;) (think that is..)
[13:36:18] <SkunkWorks> will it pretty much be as good as it is tuned? or with no feedback from the motor to the amp (velocity or current) will there be more issues?
[13:36:47] <alex_joni> frankly I have no idea :/
[13:36:55] <SkunkWorks> ok - no problem.
[13:36:57] <alex_joni> it depends how icky your setup is..
[13:37:10] <alex_joni> does it tolerate some small irregularities?
[13:37:13] <alex_joni> etc..
[13:37:43] <SkunkWorks> what the heck is that? do you see the @@@?
[13:37:59] <alex_joni> sorry?
[13:38:54] <SkunkWorks> just got the window painted with a bunch of @@@@@@@ from -lhhkh15-
[13:39:05] <alex_joni> not here..
[13:39:13] <SkunkWorks> odd
[13:39:39] <SkunkWorks> Well - I will just try it and see I guess. That is part of the fun :)
[13:40:15] <cradek> I think he was saying that you will have a lot of switching loss in the motor driver that you don't have with real servo amps
[13:40:46] <SkunkWorks> Hi cradek
[13:41:04] <SkunkWorks> what do you mean my switching loss?
[13:41:38] <cradek> hi
[13:41:45] <cradek> I don't know, I'm just parroting
[13:41:53] <jepler> SkunkWorks: When you turn the output to 50%, the switches (mosfets or whatever) are turned on in one BASE_PERIOD and off in the next BASE_PERIOD
[13:42:08] <SkunkWorks> :) your good
[13:42:09] <jepler> that's using freqgen-style PDM
[13:43:04] <jepler> with PWM, you can get a 50% duty cycle with many fewer turn-offs and turn-ons per second
[13:43:09] <SkunkWorks> jepler - I read that from jmk yesterday - my circut should handle high pwm freqencies. But I can also switch to the pwmgen when it is done.
[13:44:23] <SkunkWorks> cradek: how are the motor mounts coming? Jepler - nice work on the divide by code.
[13:44:45] <cradek> SkunkWorks: I didn't start on them last night, I mostly slept instead
[13:45:11] <cradek> I must have been behind on sleep, I usually don't feel like sleeping early
[13:46:53] <cradek> I bet this weekend I'l have at least one axis working
[13:47:10] <SkunkWorks> I have been running 1 amp through my drive running a motor all morning - cool as a cucumber :)
[13:47:33] <SkunkWorks> (that is all my power supply that I am using will put out.
[13:47:56] <SkunkWorks> 25v
[13:48:16] <SkunkWorks> no heatsinks yet.
[13:48:25] <cradek> did I ask already what you intend to run with it?
[13:49:08] <SkunkWorks> we have some bigger dc motors that I would like to put on our monarch laith
[13:49:51] <SkunkWorks> but (and don't tel jmk) I would like to try the bigger servos we have - the 70 ft-lb ones
[13:50:37] <cradek> ok, I won't say anything
[13:50:38] <SkunkWorks> maybe running them at half the rated current
[13:50:47] <SkunkWorks> :)
[13:51:40] <SkunkWorks> I just like doing this crap - we could be setup with decent drives and interface for under 2k - but who would want to do that :)
[13:52:13] <cradek> me too, but also there's the part where you'd be out $2k
[13:52:26] <SkunkWorks> right
[13:53:11] <SkunkWorks> the most expensive part will be the mosfets - we where looking at 10 500v 50 amp ones on ebay for $30
[13:53:42] <SkunkWorks> those would be a little harder to destroy - but give me time :)
[13:53:43] <jepler> is it any cheaper to parallel ones with a lower current rating?
[13:54:32] <SkunkWorks> maybe - I would like a higher voltage rating though - these are only 60v
[13:55:06] <SkunkWorks> current usually isn't a problem finding cheap - it seems to be the higher current and voltage
[14:02:05] <jepler> IGBT N-CHAN 80A 600V TO247 $6.88 qty1 http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=88591&Row=180158&Site=US
[14:03:02] <jepler> do you really need 500V?
[14:03:08] <SkunkWorks> the ir2111 will also run igbt's
[14:03:18] <SkunkWorks> at the most I need 200v
[14:03:32] <SkunkWorks> it was just what I had found on ebay.
[14:04:58] <jepler> and 50A?
[14:06:49] <jepler> MOSFET N-CH 200V 30A TO-247AC $2.57 qty1 http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=90768&Row=415489&Site=US
[14:07:20] <jepler> ($1.72 qty 10)
[14:07:38] <jepler> it sounds like it's a lot cheaper not to buy grossly oversized mosfets
[14:07:56] <jepler> http://www.irf.com/technical-info/whitepaper/choosewisely.pdf
[14:10:27] <SkunkWorks> jepler: Thanks
[14:10:31] <SkunkWorks> nice article
[14:16:07] <jepler> judging from the photo of jon elson's pwm servo amp (it has 4 big to220-looking things against the aluminum bar), he probably paired two lower-current devices -- and for only 20A
[14:23:59] <SkunkWorks> for an h-bridge - you need 4
[14:24:27] <SkunkWorks> (single supply)
[14:24:58] <jepler> oh duh
[14:24:59] <jepler> forget it
[14:26:44] <jepler> I was thinking how you can run 2 servos on an L298, while you can only run one stepper
[14:26:52] <jepler> so clearly that means servos only need half an H-bridge
[14:29:24] <SkunkWorks> :)
[14:33:20] <jepler> just to show how stupid I am, let me show you my "unipolar servo drive": http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/uniservo.png (don't do this)
[14:34:01] <cradek> haha
[14:35:15] <cradek> you should use a DPDT relay for reversal and one just transistor
[14:35:49] <jepler> wow you're an even better engineer than I am
[14:37:39] <jepler> oh duh -- to stop the motor, you bring both CW and CCW high at the same time
[14:37:42] <jepler> your idea won't work
[14:44:32] <SkunkWorks> when I was 10 I figured I could hook dc into a rectifier and get ac out. made perfect sense - should work in reverse
[14:45:43] <SkunkWorks> shouldn't it? :)
[15:22:18] <SkunkWorks> crappy picture http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/betadrive.jpg
[15:24:34] <Bo^Dick> does anyone know about the PIC18F452 microcontroller?
[15:25:14] <jepler> * jepler has never worked with PICs
[15:25:15] <Bo^Dick> if i configure PORTC pin 3 and 4 for I2C mode will that occypy the entire port or just those pins?
[16:44:47] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[17:50:23] <Didier> Hello everybody
[17:50:36] <alex_joni> hello.. ca va?
[17:50:43] <Didier> oui et vous ?
[17:50:56] <alex_joni> parfait
[17:51:17] <Didier> vous parlez français courament ?
[17:51:40] <alex_joni> mais non, jus'que un petit peux
[17:51:58] <Didier> it's very well
[17:52:08] <alex_joni> it's rusty
[17:52:47] <Didier> rusty ?
[17:53:12] <alex_joni> yeah.. old & unused
[17:53:25] <Didier> ok i see, when wtare fall on metal
[17:53:31] <Didier> water
[17:54:07] <alex_joni> exactly.. how is that called in french?
[17:54:14] <Didier> rouillé
[17:54:36] <alex_joni> ok.. didn't know that one :)
[17:54:51] <Didier> :)
[17:55:56] <Didier> you are in romania ?
[17:56:36] <Didier> do you know Toulouse ?
[17:57:06] <alex_joni> Didier: never visited france.. but yeah I heared of toulouse
[17:57:27] <Didier> becaus of planes, i'm sure
[18:03:23] <Didier> you are living at one hour of France ?
[18:03:37] <alex_joni> actually 2 usually
[18:03:47] <alex_joni> but we switched to summer time.. not sure france has
[18:04:06] <alex_joni> it's 21:11 right now
[18:05:31] <Didier> do you know waterjet cutting system ?
[18:06:07] <alex_joni> not very well
[18:08:36] <Didier> my last company have sell some machines in roumania
[18:09:52] <alex_joni> nice
[18:11:09] <Didier> i don't remender where
[18:13:19] <Didier> i must go, good night
[18:13:24] <Didier> bye
[18:13:31] <alex_joni> g'night
[18:29:19] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/tripodkins.c: use rtapi_math.h, and change to the proper KINEMATICS type
[19:12:22] <jepler> wow. most busted scrollbar ever? http://kerb.kiix.com:8080/dashboard
[19:13:13] <cradek> haha that's worse than tk
[19:13:46] <cradek> ah, it always shows 10 "items"
[19:13:49] <alex_joni> I wonder why I should be able to resize that
[19:13:58] <alex_joni> it show 2 items now.. and can't get it to show more
[19:14:00] <alex_joni> :(
[19:14:04] <jepler> cradek: you can drag the grey thing at the lower-right to show fewer or more items
[19:14:08] <jepler> .. until it breaks and you can't enlarge it again
[19:14:10] <Jymmm> works great, if you disable css =)
[19:14:26] <Jymmm> fscking iframes
[19:14:28] <cradek> wow
[19:14:50] <Jymmm> wait, I take that back... it's still fscked up with css disabled! LOL
[19:56:53] <Jymmm> Looks interesting... http://motestruments.com/led-touch-sensor-circuit/
[20:00:01] <jepler> Jymmm: a few months ago I saw a neat video that showed an 8x8 LED proximity sensor based on this principle
[20:00:28] <Jymmm> This? http://mrl.nyu.edu/~jhan/ledtouch/index.html
[20:00:59] <jepler> yes
[20:01:45] <Jymmm> by that video, it seems sensitive enough
[20:06:18] <Jymmm> too bad they dont give any information on it =(
[20:06:36] <jepler> yeah, I agree
[20:06:45] <jepler> I assume it's the same principle, but complicated by the need to multiplex
[20:07:16] <Jymmm> Yeah. If you watche the video, I see it go thru a diag if you watcht eh led pad itself
[20:09:46] <skunkworks> wow - that whole thing was breadboarded - eww. they must have better luck with breadboards than me :))
[20:10:07] <Jymmm> skunkworks where do you see that?
[20:10:28] <Jymmm> oh, I see it now
[20:18:56] <Jymmm> 64 leds... can't be JUST paraport alone... I can't understand how he reversed biased them.
[20:28:14] <jepler> I figured it was done with a microcontroller
[20:28:32] <jepler> I figure you need at least 16 pins of IO
[20:28:43] <Jymmm> Yeah, I'm sending off an email to him.
[20:29:48] <Jymmm> 16 isn't so bad I guess.
[20:30:25] <A-L-P-H-A> I swear she told me she was 18!
[20:30:29] <Jymmm> It be great if you could display msg, and use the LED's as input the response.
[20:30:44] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE she did
[20:30:57] <Jymmm> is probably 12
[20:31:48] <Jymmm> SWP might like that, if he hasn't already seen it.
[20:32:51] <Jymmm> "You’ll need to play with that number based on ambient light and LED properties" maybe that's why the video was shot in the dark.
[20:36:33] <Jymmm> http://www.merl.com/reports/docs/TR2003-35.pdf
[20:48:08] <Jymmm> I have a dumb question... Just say a normal push button, how do you tell when it's been pushed (lets say) 3 times in programming terms?
[20:49:04] <Jymmm> againest a CLK I mean.
[20:49:17] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, need a counter and a interrupt.
[20:50:06] <Jymmm> Well, what about if they press the first time for 3ms, the second time for 4ms and the third time for 8ms (as example) ?
[20:50:09] <A-L-P-H-A> CLK = click or clock?
[20:50:14] <Jymmm> clock
[20:50:22] <Jymmm> square pulse
[20:50:30] <Jymmm> aka time refernce
[20:50:33] <A-L-P-H-A> ok
[20:51:21] <A-L-P-H-A> on an atmel, I would , create an on_trigger_interrupt() which toggles looking for a 0 or 1 on that given port (button).
[20:51:28] <Jymmm> I have a BASIC STAMP, I should try this... http://motestruments.com/led-touch-sensor-circuit/
[20:51:42] <A-L-P-H-A> once a full cycle has been done, increment a counter.
[20:51:53] <A-L-P-H-A> counter dies if another timer times out...
[20:52:05] <jepler> ignoring "bounce", you could count the number of button presses by frequently executing this code: current_state = read_state_of_button(); if(last_state == NOT_PRESSED && current_state == PRESSED) { number_of_presses = number_of_presses + 1; } last_state = current_state;
[20:52:06] <A-L-P-H-A> so you won't have like a press, three minutes later, another press...
[20:52:18] <A-L-P-H-A> yes.
[20:52:21] <A-L-P-H-A> something like that.
[20:52:34] <A-L-P-H-A> if you just cleaned that signal up with like a LS7404, you'd be fine as well.
[20:52:37] <A-L-P-H-A> you'd remove the bounces.
[20:53:27] <Jymmm> Ah, this answered it... if(last_state == NOT_PRESSED && current_state == PRESSED) { number_of_presses = number_of_presses + 1; } last_state = current_state;
[20:53:32] <Jymmm> thanks jepler
[20:53:37] <Jymmm> you too A-L-P-H-A =)
[20:54:13] <Jymmm> so it's not timed thing, just current/previous state.
[20:54:31] <A-L-P-H-A> that's actually not a good thing... you should have a time out feature...
[20:54:42] <A-L-P-H-A> otherwise you could press the button three times, over a span of a year, to get what you want.
[20:54:55] <A-L-P-H-A> unless those are states you're cycling through.
[20:55:17] <Jymmm> No, I just wanted to know what it looked like in code.
[20:55:35] <Jymmm> I couldn't see the logic.
[20:55:35] <A-L-P-H-A> ASM if more fun. :)
[20:56:00] <Jymmm> I'll learn C before ASM =)
[20:56:15] <A-L-P-H-A> ASM is easy.
[20:56:20] <A-L-P-H-A> just have to think really low level.
[20:56:36] <A-L-P-H-A> code is also so much smaller. :)
[20:56:42] <Jymmm> I have far more use for C than ASM though.
[20:56:56] <Jymmm> and that's C, not C++ =)
[20:57:04] <A-L-P-H-A> panzy. :) too chicken to learn ASM first?
[20:57:06] <A-L-P-H-A> [I didn't]
[20:57:18] <Jymmm> I'm not as sadistic as you =)
[20:57:30] <jepler> Jymmm: maybe you should try powerful MICROSOFT BASIC II. http://www.old-computers.com/fun/stupid_scans/stupid_Atari_great_laugh.jpg
[20:58:00] <Jymmm> I like BASIC
[20:58:06] <A-L-P-H-A> order of languages Cantonese -> English -> French -> Mandarine -> pascal -> C -> delphi -> javascript -> C++ -> PHP
[20:58:20] <A-L-P-H-A> -> ASM
[20:58:36] <giacus`> aramaic
[20:58:40] <giacus`> :D
[20:58:57] <giacus`> ancient aramaic
[20:59:41] <jepler> If it's allowed to take over 1 second: program in Python. If it's allowed to take over 1 millisecond: program in C. If it has to be done in less than a microsecond: program in ASM
[20:59:54] <jepler> that's my rule-of-thumb for language choice
[21:00:51] <Jymmm> Well, I have a BASIC STAMP and LED's, I'll try that first
[21:01:05] <Jymmm> shit the code is alreayd written
[21:01:09] <A-L-P-H-A> what is a basic stamp? a PIC for Basic?
[21:01:11] <jepler> with BASIC STAMP you're probably stuck programming BASIC
[21:01:28] <A-L-P-H-A> people still use basic?
[21:01:30] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: BASIC STAMP is a small microcontroller
[21:01:31] <cradek> I notice BASIC wasn't on your list
[21:01:35] <A-L-P-H-A> I guess MS whores... with VB.net
[21:01:45] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek, no BASIC is not on my list.
[21:01:47] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: BAISC STAMPS http://www.parallax.com/
[21:02:13] <Jymmm> This already has the code to test it out... http://motestruments.com/led-touch-sensor-circuit/
[21:02:17] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll stll to my atmels, thanks.
[21:02:26] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: it's positioned as a "teaching device", and though I've never used it, I understand it is attractive because it comes with a development environment for its own proprietary language.
[21:02:32] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, have you been reading digg/make/indestructables?
[21:02:40] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A no.
[21:02:52] <Jymmm> jepler That's why I have it, for learning.
[21:02:53] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: despite the fact that it's no longer the 1980s, people still believe that "BASIC" means it's easy
[21:03:24] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.gogglemarks.net/index.php?action=display&tag=fightswitch
[21:04:08] <Jymmm> jepler I grew up with BASIC, so that makes it easier for me, till I learn C and start playing with Atmels.
[21:04:57] <cradek> the nice thing about languages other than basic is they stay about the same wherever you go
[21:05:11] <cradek> for instance once you can write for(...){ ... } in C, it'll work everywhere
[21:05:37] <cradek> or a better example: a subroutine
[21:05:49] <Jymmm> If I didn't already KNOW basic, I'd know C =)
[21:05:51] <jepler> Jymmm: I hope you have fun & learn a lot
[21:05:51] <A-L-P-H-A> if(){}elseif{}else{}; as well. I think there's an elseif
[21:06:15] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, I'm just teasing you... I'm happy you're learning regardless what is it...
[21:06:24] <cradek> C does not have elseif: it's spelled "else if"
[21:06:38] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, pass me back that book about killing cats, and puppies... my satanic gerbile wants to read it again.
[21:06:48] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek, sorry... thinking PHP.
[21:07:01] <Jymmm> jepler It'll allows me to paly easily. But I KNOW I have to learn C eventually. I have written any C since the MS-DOS days.
[21:07:16] <Jymmm> havne't
[21:07:24] <A-L-P-H-A> oh... so you know it, just need a refresher!
[21:07:45] <Jymmm> It's far better to say that I don't know it.
[21:07:47] <A-L-P-H-A> see, my problem is even states, and syntax in AVR-C... I need to read up on that.
[21:08:02] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, humble pie for humble asses. :P
[21:08:10] <jepler> "even states"?
[21:08:15] <A-L-P-H-A> event
[21:08:19] <A-L-P-H-A> interrupts!
[21:08:37] <jepler> ah
[21:08:52] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: My code back then was good enough to the Dept Head ask if she could include it in her next book if that means anything.
[21:09:40] <A-L-P-H-A> no comment.
[21:09:44] <A-L-P-H-A> I could be so mean right now.
[21:09:49] <A-L-P-H-A> oh hell... I will be.
[21:09:50] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, not if it's a state college, or highschool. :)
[21:10:45] <Jymmm> see, and I didn't even bitch slap you A-L-P-H-A
[21:11:07] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.productdose.com/2006/02/03/touchless-dimmer-switch/ <-- cool
[21:27:50] <les_w> well, work day is done!
[21:28:36] <A-L-P-H-A> congrats.
[21:28:53] <A-L-P-H-A> please sit patiently while you wait for the next work day. :)
[21:29:28] <A-L-P-H-A> my sister's BF thinks i'm a great jerk... I have a special skill.
[21:29:41] <A-L-P-H-A> that sounded so wrong after I typed it.
[21:29:43] <A-L-P-H-A> ohohwell.
[21:32:12] <Jymmm> les_w: BBQ time!
[21:32:24] <A-L-P-H-A> is there a holiday in the states or something?
[21:33:00] <Jymmm> Yeah, it's sunny
[21:35:04] <les_w> I was playing with that impedance analyzer. Amazing machine.
[21:35:25] <les_w> I glued up some resonators with epoxy.....
[21:35:54] <les_w> and just watched the electrical impedance curves to see when the glue cured.
[21:36:12] <Jymmm> lol
[21:36:40] <A-L-P-H-A> les_w... you need to go get married for a 4th time or something...
[21:36:48] <les_w> bleh
[21:36:49] <les_w> haha
[21:37:36] <Jymmm> Yeah, the old touch/smell aint good enough for les, he needs a $50K machien to tell him when the glue is dry =)
[21:38:48] <A-L-P-H-A> holy shit... getting ubuntu 6.06 at 750kbs!!!
[21:39:03] <les_w> I also just painted some solvent on the resonator to check frequencies. As the solvent dried I could see them shift
[21:39:06] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: I got it at about 1.5MB
[21:39:13] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, AT HOME?
[21:39:15] <A-L-P-H-A> :P
[21:39:19] <A-L-P-H-A> skewl doesn't count
[21:39:30] <alex_joni> nope, only 1Mbit at home
[21:39:32] <A-L-P-H-A> kB/sec sorry
[21:40:05] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm getting at 6.15 mpbs, or 750kB/s
[21:40:54] <les_w> Well, I guess I should go to the music room. I could hook up the analyzer and see the position of furniture etc
[21:41:25] <A-L-P-H-A> les_w, use it to measure fung-shwai of the room... :P
[21:41:32] <A-L-P-H-A> les_w, what's it really meant to be used for?
[21:41:39] <les_w> I'll have to google that...
[21:42:13] <A-L-P-H-A> fung-shway
[21:42:25] <les_w> ah got it
[21:42:46] <les_w> I am using it to build microphones basically
[21:42:58] <A-L-P-H-A> oh
[21:43:06] <A-L-P-H-A> mics aren't cheap enough for you?
[21:43:13] <les_w> they are 4th order systems
[21:43:24] <A-L-P-H-A> or are you building them for like some quality that will record pindrops from a mile away?
[21:43:31] <A-L-P-H-A> what's 4th order systems?
[21:43:39] <A-L-P-H-A> <-- I learn so much in here.
[21:44:10] <les_w> a resonant piezo unimorph coupled to an aluminum resonant cone
[21:44:21] <A-L-P-H-A> flat speakers?
[21:44:34] <alex_joni> anyone runnign ubuntu around?
[21:44:50] <les_w> it's an ultrasonic device.
[21:45:03] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, downloading it now.
[21:45:06] <A-L-P-H-A> will be done in 9minutes.
[21:45:12] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: meant the older one..
[21:45:15] <alex_joni> 5.10
[21:45:22] <les_w> But this machine is great for speakers...and servos on machine tools
[21:45:23] <A-L-P-H-A> I think it's in the bottom of my garbage can.
[21:46:24] <les_w> Push a button and get an eqivalent circuit with values for a machine tool
[21:48:36] <les_w> Great for active anti-vibration and stuff like that
[21:48:59] <les_w> or to tune a dynamic absorber on an axis
[21:50:00] <les_w> Dynamic absorbers are good to lessen rocking mode on cnc gantries
[21:50:23] <les_w> also becomes 4th order
[21:51:01] <les_w> Well, off to the music room. What shall I play?
[21:51:59] <A-L-P-H-A> guitar
[21:52:02] <A-L-P-H-A> piano
[21:52:13] <A-L-P-H-A> <-- only two instruments I know how to play, albeit badly
[21:52:17] <les_w> Hendrix? Clapton? Diana Krall?
[21:52:27] <A-L-P-H-A> all are good.
[21:52:27] <les_w> I play guitar and sitar.
[21:52:34] <A-L-P-H-A> how about John Mayer
[21:53:06] <les_w> not familiar with him
[21:53:14] <A-L-P-H-A> les, hang on a sec then
[21:53:48] <les_w> googling
[21:53:58] <A-L-P-H-A> got an mp3 instead
[21:54:09] <les_w> k
[21:54:34] <A-L-P-H-A> great song... I think.
[21:55:26] <A-L-P-H-A> http://ultimate-guitar.com/tabs/john_mayer_tabs.htm
[21:55:41] <A-L-P-H-A> mind you, I can't play it... :(
[21:56:02] <A-L-P-H-A> James Blunt - You're beautiful is also another good soon.
[21:56:02] <A-L-P-H-A> song
[21:56:47] <A-L-P-H-A> yes... ubuntu is completed!
[21:56:48] <A-L-P-H-A> :D
[21:57:41] <Jymmm> LAwernce Welk is my hero (flutters eyes)
[21:58:06] <A-L-P-H-A> who?
[21:58:18] <Jymmm> The kings of polka!
[21:58:21] <Jymmm> king
[21:58:32] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm... sure. sure.
[21:58:42] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A go google
[21:58:57] <A-L-P-H-A> * A-L-P-H-A wonders if Jymmm could go back on to the short bus and sit there quietly.
[21:58:58] <A-L-P-H-A> ;)
[21:58:59] <A-L-P-H-A> hehe
[21:59:02] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm mean.
[21:59:07] <Jymmm> me too...
[21:59:20] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, made anything lately that you got photos of?
[21:59:35] <les_w> listening
[21:59:39] <Jymmm> yes, but I'm mean, so I'm not showing *YOU* =)
[21:59:51] <A-L-P-H-A> les_w, let me know you want the CDs (as mp3s)
[22:00:09] <Jymmm> les_w Do you know of any clear coat that won't absorb stain by chance?
[22:00:16] <les_w> alpha you need to get on anna's paltalk music room
[22:00:21] <les_w> we play lots of tunes
[22:00:31] <les_w> I can just buy cds
[22:00:52] <les_w> MP3 sounds not so good on my system
[22:01:01] <A-L-P-H-A> don't support the RIAA!! Go buy concert tickets or something...
[22:01:26] <A-L-P-H-A> use a loss less codec then... [which I don't have]
[22:01:33] <Jymmm> les_w you need a couple of these then... only $400... http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=DVPCX995V%2fKIT2&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=hav_DVD_DVDPlayers&DCMP=Google_HAV&HQS=dvd_changer_sony
[22:01:37] <les_w> My son had a raw vs 256k MP3 contest in the music roon a while back
[22:01:47] <A-L-P-H-A> I have digital out on 5.1 surround sound system.
[22:01:48] <les_w> what a difference!!!!
[22:02:01] <A-L-P-H-A> les_w, how old is your song?
[22:02:02] <A-L-P-H-A> son.
[22:02:07] <les_w> 19
[22:02:15] <A-L-P-H-A> how old are you?
[22:02:20] <A-L-P-H-A> please don't say 38.
[22:02:20] <les_w> He is a guitarist in a rock band.
[22:02:24] <les_w> I was too.
[22:02:39] <A-L-P-H-A> les_w, you're in MI right? northern part of MI?
[22:02:55] <les_w> haha I am 53.
[22:03:06] <A-L-P-H-A> same age as my Dad...
[22:03:19] <les_w> I'm in the north georgia mountains
[22:03:26] <A-L-P-H-A> who's in MI?
[22:03:27] <les_w> but from chicago.
[22:03:29] <Jymmm> les_w: A-L-P-H-A is on a mean streak today....
[22:03:54] <les_w> ray is in the up
[22:03:56] <A-L-P-H-A> who was from MI??
[22:03:58] <les_w> UP
[22:03:58] <A-L-P-H-A> Oh...
[22:04:04] <Jymmm> les_w feel free to kick A-L-P-H-A if you like =)
[22:04:12] <les_w> haha
[22:04:20] <Jymmm> les_w you have ops
[22:04:32] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, quiet down you... or I'll get the teacher to put the dunce cap back on your head and have you sit in the corner.
[22:04:32] <les_w> Too bad I have all this sound gear and my ears are going
[22:04:53] <Jymmm> * Jymmm pokes A-L-P-H-A... jab jab jab
[22:04:55] <fenn> that'll teach him to use a stupid nick
[22:05:05] <Jymmm> EVERYONE lets make fun of A-L-P-H-A
[22:05:33] <les_w> Alpha, I used to be an Audio /Hi fidelity research engineer at Shure Brothers in Chicago
[22:05:44] <Jymmm> * Jymmm snickers
[22:05:49] <A-L-P-H-A> op abuse... how sad.
[22:05:50] <A-L-P-H-A> :P
[22:05:54] <les_w> haha
[22:06:09] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A yeah, bite me!
[22:06:25] <les_w> I designed speakers and such for home and stage use
[22:06:26] <A-L-P-H-A> I wouldn't touch you with someone elses 10' pole.
[22:06:34] <A-L-P-H-A> les_w, cool.
[22:06:37] <Jymmm> les_w You really should consider that dvd changer, it hold 400 cd/dvds
[22:07:03] <les_w> heck I should just throw em on a hard disk
[22:07:34] <les_w> I resurected a damaged cd yesterday...it was all scratched up
[22:07:35] <A-L-P-H-A> 400 DVDs... hmm... 400 x 4.7 gigs = 1,880 gigs... hmm... that's about six 300 gig HDs...
[22:07:36] <Jymmm> les_w that changer plays mp3's too, so you could rip your cd's to a dvd if you like
[22:07:57] <les_w> polished it with meguirs car cleaner....perfct! No skips.
[22:08:04] <A-L-P-H-A> six x $150 = $900 + shipping for 1.8pB of data.
[22:08:39] <A-L-P-H-A> for $400 that's actually not bad at all.
[22:08:42] <les_w> I just use a sony es cd player with Burr brown Converters
[22:08:49] <Jymmm> I beleive you can connect up to 4 of those changers together (or you used to be able to)
[22:09:33] <les_w> For a hard disk system I would need to find a really good d/a converter
[22:09:44] <A-L-P-H-A> oh you get 5 DVDs too with it.
[22:09:53] <giacus`> hello
[22:10:00] <les_w> hi jacky
[22:10:04] <giacus`> talking about dvd ?
[22:10:05] <les_w> anna make it in?
[22:10:08] <giacus`> hi les_w :)
[22:10:15] <giacus`> all right
[22:10:19] <Jymmm> les_w The program I use will "normalize" the mp3's too so the audio level is consistant across you entier collection, and it's free too.
[22:10:37] <giacus`> she's typing on my laptop .. paltalk
[22:10:52] <les_w> Only raw uncompressed for me guys
[22:11:13] <A-L-P-H-A> les_w, lossless codecs!! FLOSS
[22:11:17] <Jymmm> les_w well it'll rip to WAV file (Cd's native format)
[22:11:19] <A-L-P-H-A> or AAC lossless
[22:11:31] <les_w> yeah.
[22:11:42] <A-L-P-H-A> FLAC not FLOSS sorry.
[22:11:54] <A-L-P-H-A> WMA also has lossless codec as well
[22:12:18] <A-L-P-H-A> crap... I have still enough meat to make another monte cristo sandwich........ soooo yummy
[22:12:26] <les_w> I can really hear MP3 artifacts even at 256...sounds ok on computer or car speakers though.
[22:12:45] <A-L-P-H-A> <-- not an audiophile.
[22:12:56] <les_w> Sounds not so good on a 3500W rms quad amped system though.
[22:12:57] <A-L-P-H-A> les_w... heard of 16000hz misquito sound?
[22:13:20] <les_w> I can't hear 16 anymore.
[22:13:29] <les_w> when I was 18 I could hear 27.
[22:13:38] <giacus`> guys I need your help
[22:13:49] <A-L-P-H-A> les_w, appearantly people older than teens can't hear 16...
[22:13:53] <alex_joni> giacus`: ?
[22:13:56] <les_w> right
[22:13:59] <A-L-P-H-A> giacus`, no... I don't do arranged marriages.
[22:14:04] <giacus`> Just tryng to get a better intro for the video ..
[22:14:16] <giacus`> pretty hard to find the right words
[22:14:27] <les_w> what do you want to say?
[22:15:09] <giacus`> just to have an idea take a look to http://www.giacus.org/files/intro_beta_2.mpg
[22:15:23] <les_w> ok
[22:15:25] <giacus`> need some nice word to pu in there
[22:15:36] <alex_joni> giacus`: tomorrow :) too late now
[22:15:37] <giacus`> and a good meant
[22:15:43] <giacus`> alex_joni: K
[22:15:45] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is irc-ing from the 6.06 installer ;)
[22:15:56] <A-L-P-H-A> from the installer??
[22:15:56] <giacus`> talking to all :P
[22:16:03] <A-L-P-H-A> NEAT.
[22:16:05] <giacus`> if anyone got a good idea
[22:16:14] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: it's a live cd + install
[22:16:19] <alex_joni> no more simple install cd
[22:16:34] <A-L-P-H-A> lots of artifacts in there. :(
[22:16:41] <giacus`> alex_joni: the song used is the yours ;)
[22:16:56] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm...
[22:16:56] <alex_joni> giacus`: can't wait to hear tomorrow :)
[22:16:57] <giacus`> but got an hard start ..
[22:17:03] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm seriously debating of going linux.
[22:17:11] <A-L-P-H-A> but I have a copy of winXP pro legit.
[22:17:17] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: you seriously won't regret it
[22:17:17] <les_w> i'm not getting it to load yet
[22:17:40] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: if it were only the OS, then maybe doze would be a viable alternative
[22:18:03] <alex_joni> but if you start paying for office & photoshop & antivir & ...
[22:18:13] <les_w> We will be seriously discussing linux for factory automation soon
[22:18:40] <alex_joni> les_w: I've seen too many doze automation systems .. yuck
[22:19:05] <les_w> I need hard real time.
[22:19:16] <alex_joni> * alex_joni looks away
[22:19:24] <alex_joni> linux is ok for real time..
[22:19:32] <alex_joni> but it's not 'hard real time' :)
[22:19:43] <alex_joni> you can only get that on embedded systems
[22:19:52] <les_w> I maean with a patched kernel of course
[22:20:09] <A-L-P-H-A> openoffice, gimp, grisoft.
[22:20:10] <les_w> rtai or rtlinux
[22:21:00] <les_w> jacky I CAN"T DOWNLOAD YOUR FILE
[22:21:05] <les_w> oops
[22:21:09] <giacus`> ouch
[22:21:10] <les_w> shift sticks.
[22:21:14] <les_w> worn out.
[22:21:18] <giacus`> let me check ..
[22:21:21] <Jymmm> still beta testing huh?
[22:21:30] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.diyhappy.com/quick-and-dirty-mosquito-trap/
[22:21:32] <giacus`> alpha :/
[22:22:20] <A-L-P-H-A> bbiab dinner
[22:22:51] <giacus`> les_w: strange .. i tried the same url, download it in few seconds
[22:23:02] <giacus`> maybe the codec ?
[22:23:03] <les_w> hmm
[22:23:13] <les_w> neat mosquito trap
[22:23:29] <les_w> I just get no file transfer
[22:24:00] <giacus`> the index page ?
[22:24:17] <giacus`> home page*
[22:24:54] <les_w> going to it
[22:24:59] <les_w> looks ok
[22:25:07] <les_w> Hey billy cobham....
[22:25:08] <giacus`> strange
[22:25:16] <les_w> one of my favorites!!
[22:25:21] <giacus`> hehe :)
[22:25:38] <giacus`> old albums are nice
[22:25:47] <giacus`> old cobham cd I meant
[22:26:15] <giacus`> there's some video if you look at his website
[22:26:46] <les_w> your english page looks perfect
[22:26:55] <giacus`> hehe
[22:27:18] <giacus`> I'm not so clever ..
[22:27:33] <giacus`> translators are fenn and jepler ;)
[22:27:42] <giacus`> that's why is 90% correct
[22:27:44] <giacus`> haha
[22:28:18] <giacus`> Jymmm: did you tried to watch the video at the link I posted ?
[22:28:39] <alex_joni> giacus`: I tried.. but theee 6.06 live doesn't have codecs :)
[22:30:07] <giacus`> need a 6 blocks of words to put there when it start ..
[22:30:27] <giacus`> until the drum
[22:30:48] <giacus`> the rest should be simple
[22:30:56] <giacus`> that's the hardest part for me
[22:31:28] <giacus`> also hard to syncronize text and audio for the sound used..
[22:31:28] <les_w> need to go out for a minute...brb
[22:31:54] <giacus`> later les_w
[22:31:59] <giacus`> need a good idea
[22:32:04] <giacus`> giacus` is now known as giacus
[22:32:35] <A-L-P-H-A> les_w did you listen?
[22:37:50] <giacus> A-L-P-H-A: sending streaming online ? :P
[22:39:05] <A-L-P-H-A> nah. sent two songs to Les...
[22:39:18] <A-L-P-H-A> a john mayer and james blunt songs
[22:39:39] <alex_joni> aiee.. not james blunt :(
[22:39:46] <alex_joni> I can't hear that anymore
[22:39:56] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't listen to the radio... so I don't get annoyed at songs.
[22:40:07] <A-L-P-H-A> I have a 30 gig black ipod video. :)
[22:40:10] <A-L-P-H-A> SOOOO nice at the gym.
[22:40:19] <A-L-P-H-A> I could watch robot chicken, and do my cardio!
[22:40:22] <Jymmm> so mean on the wallet
[22:40:38] <A-L-P-H-A> what mean?
[22:41:12] <A-L-P-H-A> who can hear this? http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/audio/mosquito_sound.mp3
[22:41:34] <alex_joni> I can
[22:41:39] <alex_joni> only by looking at it
[22:41:46] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[22:42:04] <A-L-P-H-A> I can't hear it at all... <shrug>
[22:42:46] <Jymmm> I hear giggling at the end
[22:43:00] <Jymmm> Lot of ambiant noise thruout
[22:43:12] <giacus> the xvid is on the way
[22:43:22] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, that's not it... that's just background noise.
[22:43:38] <A-L-P-H-A> there's something supposedly that we "OLD" people can't hear.
[22:44:45] <Jymmm> I hear a sort of "pulsing" new the begining
[22:45:26] <giacus> check that if mpeg codec issue occour with the other http://www.giacus.org/files/intro_beta_2.avi
[22:45:55] <giacus> but tell me 6 right expressions to use there !
[22:48:07] <A-L-P-H-A> emc2... the new vista to a mechanized world
[22:48:15] <A-L-P-H-A> how big is that file??
[22:48:40] <giacus> 5 mega
[22:48:50] <A-L-P-H-A> FOR that short of a clip?!?
[22:49:01] <A-L-P-H-A> 5 megs should be like 30 seconds.
[22:49:05] <A-L-P-H-A> or was it 30 seconds?
[22:49:11] <giacus> it depend on video/audio compression
[22:49:18] <giacus> don't worry about that right now
[22:49:26] <A-L-P-H-A> giacus, compress it more... as there's very little details thus far.
[22:49:28] <giacus> are you in dialup connection ?
[22:49:38] <A-L-P-H-A> giacus, no. 10meg cable.
[22:49:39] <giacus> A-L-P-H-A: of course..
[22:50:00] <giacus> the avi should be in low resolution
[22:50:09] <giacus> around 3 mb I guess
[22:50:10] <A-L-P-H-A> design the whole thing in mpeg2... and then compress it to other stuff.
[22:50:22] <A-L-P-H-A> like h232 or whatever that number is.
[22:50:25] <giacus> I'm working in high resolution right now
[22:50:32] <giacus> at the end i'll compress it
[22:50:50] <Jymmm> bah... DIVX codec
[22:50:54] <giacus> have to find the best way to do it
[22:51:02] <giacus> just testing now
[22:51:23] <giacus> worry about the content please :/
[22:51:30] <giacus> I can't go on ..
[22:51:55] <skunkworks> giacus: that is a cool video - it streamed quick here.
[22:52:17] <giacus> skunkworks: think about 6 expressions ..
[22:52:24] <skunkworks> the english may be a little off - but don't ask me about it.
[22:52:30] <giacus> I've not idea about what to write in there
[22:52:35] <les_w> friday evening and no beer for music room...I had to correct that problem
[22:53:00] <giacus> that would be the most important part, as meant
[22:53:05] <Jymmm> les_w installed a 34 deg coolr beer tap?
[22:53:09] <giacus> the rest is simple :D
[22:54:09] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.ohgizmo.com/2006/06/01/the-mosquito-mega-catch/
[22:54:31] <alex_joni> g'night all
[22:54:40] <giacus> Goodnight alex_joni
[22:54:59] <les_w> I got the avi file...sound only
[22:55:45] <giacus> les_w: that's xvid codec
[22:56:05] <giacus> you probably have only default codecs on your system
[22:56:10] <les_w> right
[22:57:18] <giacus> btw
[22:57:31] <giacus> if you listen at the soft part of the song
[22:57:53] <giacus> there is just a blank screen
[22:58:10] <giacus> where I need 6 expression in the right sequence
[22:58:18] <giacus> about EMC
[22:58:24] <giacus> of course :)
[22:58:36] <giacus> you have to say all in 6 expressions
[22:58:51] <giacus> hard ..
[22:59:10] <les_w> downloading codec
[22:59:16] <giacus> K
[22:59:45] <giacus> the words I used might be wrong
[22:59:56] <Jymmm> I lave and hate pdf at the same time
[23:00:02] <giacus> its just to have an idea about what I would get
[23:00:28] <giacus> a bit of fantasy is needed :P
[23:00:47] <giacus> Jymmm: why ?
[23:01:01] <giacus> whats wrong in pdf ?
[23:01:51] <Jymmm> I like them becasue they hold the content as a single file, hate that they can't be viewed by anything other than acrobat (easily)
[23:02:35] <giacus> that seems to me a right compromise if you need a portable doc with tex/image
[23:02:48] <Jymmm> Ok, I guess ti be better to say that I hate acrboat reader more than PDF
[23:02:52] <giacus> I think LaTeX is great for math
[23:03:08] <giacus> and advanced use
[23:04:19] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, you use wifi?
[23:04:29] <giacus> alex_joni: goes to bed ..
[23:04:46] <giacus> I think
[23:04:51] <A-L-P-H-A> oh he did.
[23:05:14] <giacus> I used wifi to share dsl here
[23:05:21] <A-L-P-H-A> with ubuntu?
[23:05:23] <giacus> on my laptop
[23:05:26] <A-L-P-H-A> with ubuntu?
[23:05:28] <giacus> with debian
[23:05:35] <A-L-P-H-A> how do I get WPA to work??
[23:05:50] <giacus> wich drivers ?
[23:06:08] <A-L-P-H-A> ath0
[23:06:10] <A-L-P-H-A> atheros
[23:06:23] <A-L-P-H-A> the card is recognized, just not WPA
[23:06:28] <A-L-P-H-A> it can do WEP, not WAP
[23:06:29] <A-L-P-H-A> WPA
[23:07:01] <giacus> I use a different driver
[23:07:14] <les_w> I still get no video
[23:07:27] <les_w> oh well
[23:07:38] <giacus> but you have to look at the doc /usr/share/doc/ ..
[23:07:51] <giacus> some driver do not support WAP I guess
[23:08:17] <giacus> encryption
[23:08:26] <les_w> yeah
[23:08:42] <giacus> les_w: got the video working ?
[23:09:19] <les_w> I upgraded to media player that was supposed to have newer codecs.
[23:09:28] <les_w> but no video still.
[23:09:29] <giacus> nah ..
[23:09:44] <giacus> it will never show xvid I think ..
[23:10:19] <les_w> right
[23:12:08] <giacus> check this url http://www.free-codecs.com/download/XP_Codec_Pack.htm
[23:12:15] <giacus> if your system is xp
[23:12:16] <les_w> k
[23:12:40] <giacus> that website its slow for me right now
[23:12:54] <giacus> should have a full codecs pack
[23:13:03] <giacus> and lite codec pack
[23:13:28] <les_w> yes not working from here
[23:14:51] <les_w> well, I'll go to the music room. Tell anna to open her paltalk music room soon!
[23:15:21] <giacus> she's already on some room .. wait
[23:15:55] <giacus> the room should be milano milano milano
[23:16:11] <les_w> is that a music room too?
[23:16:12] <giacus> but she says if you enter on pal she invite you on the room
[23:16:22] <les_w> ok
[23:16:29] <giacus> you should be in her contacts
[23:17:13] <giacus> wonder when they will released a linux vers. of paltalk ..
[23:17:16] <giacus> :(
[23:26:47] <dmessier> hi all
[23:27:14] <giacus> hi dmessier
[23:28:35] <dmessier> http://www.mullerwindsports.com/
[23:29:01] <dmessier> bon soir i guess for you
[23:29:27] <giacus> :D
[23:29:41] <giacus> extreme sport
[23:30:39] <dmessier> not so.. extreme... more sureal
[23:31:16] <dmessier> good video of Chris
[23:34:13] <giacus> he's on a bridge ?
[23:34:45] <dmessier> he's jumped off ANYTHING
[23:35:01] <giacus> cool
[23:35:12] <dmessier> he flew amything...
[23:35:34] <dmessier> he was a master at EVERYTHING
[23:35:58] <dmessier> he 1st flew wit his dad at 6 i elieve...
[23:36:08] <giacus> dmessier: I believe he can fly :)
[23:36:10] <dmessier> believe
[23:36:27] <giacus> not the peoples in the youtube.com video hahaha
[23:36:31] <dmessier> he did... and died doing it
[23:36:39] <giacus> uh ?
[23:36:41] <giacus> really ?
[23:36:50] <dmessier> acident last summer
[23:36:51] <giacus> when ?
[23:36:55] <giacus> mmm
[23:37:06] <dmessier> competition..
[23:37:52] <dmessier> he made goal... but if you wanted to dive for dollars there was a pilon you could pick up..
[23:39:01] <dmessier> he did... in front of the base bar at 80 mph .. he plowed in from ground level at speed
[23:40:10] <giacus> absurd
[23:40:14] <giacus> :/
[23:40:17] <dmessier> Canada lost their finest safest pilot to a competition sideshow
[23:40:34] <A-L-P-H-A> this sucks
[23:40:43] <A-L-P-H-A> WPA won't work in ubuntu... I can't get it to work
[23:40:59] <dmessier> His father DEVELOPED hangliding in the '60's
[23:41:01] <giacus> A-L-P-H-A: I think it is not supported ..
[23:41:20] <A-L-P-H-A> it is! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WPAHowto
[23:41:23] <giacus> is WPA a super encryption ?
[23:42:21] <giacus> onestly, I didn't used it
[23:42:29] <giacus> no need for it ..
[23:42:41] <giacus> home-to-home
[23:45:01] <giacus> les_w: listening you song :P
[23:45:38] <giacus> nice
[23:47:16] <giacus> A-L-P-H-A: I suggest you to use wep encryption changing key often
[23:47:52] <giacus> however, I use enter as passwd on my system ;)
[23:54:03] <les_w> I had the wrong channel selected on the mixer at first
[23:54:10] <les_w> I hope the sound was ok
[23:57:33] <giacus> les_w: I'm sure it was nice
[23:58:22] <giacus> just my laptop don't have very good speakers
[23:58:30] <giacus> the song was great